1. There's no vacancy as leader of the Labour Party. Starmer isn't going anywhere for at least a year, even if tonight's results are horrendous. And there won't be a challenge.
2. Don't forget that Starmer won the leadership election hands down. The idea that there's any appetite for somebody like Burgon from the membership is ludicrous.
3. If Starmer were to jack it in, I'd expect both Rayner and Nandy to stand. Nandy would win, because she'd run a better, more articulate campaign and has the ability to appeal to all factions in the party apart from the far, far left who are, as can be seen from the last leader/deputy election, in retreat.
2. Because he was supposed to be a vote winner and promised to unite
Failed miserably on both fronts
PLP knives will be out IMO
Perhaps we could have a night like in 2003 when the knives were out for IDS but they had to be put away again because the gains went against the narrative.
This is the one thing I watch on the BBC typically, alternating with Sky News, just gone to put it on - and the TV Guide says that the BBC tonight has a Royal Wedding thing on tonight on BBC1, with a 2009 film on BBC2.
WTAF!? What the hell are we paying a Licence Fee for that there's no Election Night coverage on Election Night. Instead a 12 year old movie and a 10 year old repeat of a wedding.
I'm very much with @MaxPB - I simply haven't seen a single *real* piece of woke in real life. I realise that I shouldn't trust my own eyes and ears, and should rely entirely on Twitter, but that is my reality at work, at home, and with my kids education.
My employer runs a course on micro-aggressions. Does that count as woke?
On how best to hide them in plain sight, I hope?
I struggle not to laugh when it gets talked about. I always want to quote Hugh Abbott:
That’s Robyn Murdoch? I always thought that was Robyn Murdoch’s secretary; someone who’s name I didn’t know.
Now being told that in some areas the voting is over 70% but the Tories think it is in areas good for them. Personally I remain to be convinced that this is encouraging for them.
That's the first genuinely interesting election prediction / rumour I've heard all day.
Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”? I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.
He'd have been my first choice in London too.
That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.
Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.
I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.
Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.
My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.
I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.
Maybe I should come and work for you?
I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.
There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.
I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
Oh God, the "it's all on Twitter" stuff again.
This gets so tedious going through this and reexplaining it night after night.
I think they are genuinely clueless about Woke. See Robert Smithson's remarkably dim and myopic comments about Wokery in American education.
He thought it was confined to "just one school in New York". Jesus
I am trying to work out why they are so blinkered. My guess it is generally just luck: they work in STEMy financey industries that attract geeks - which are so far largely unaffected by all this.
Anyone in the arts knows how real and menacing it is. Publishing, for example. is being roiled. Writers are cancelled all over the place. Rivals use cancel culture to take down enemies. Vicious. And it is often Left-on-Left. Same in TV and movies, if not worse, I have friends at the Beeb with hair-raising stories
They will feel different when it enters their professions, which it will eventually, if nothing changes
It is confined to a few schools in America. You go trawling the internet looking for stuff to piss you off and you've gone deep down the woke rabbit hole. In a country of 340 million people there's going to be more than a few idiots doing stupid shit. Go trawling for it and you'll find it.
I could, if I had the interest, go trawling for dumb religious shit that happens in America and it would massively massively outnumber the dumb woke stuff that you trawl for. It won't even be difficult at all trying to find schools in America doing stupid stuff because of religion.
What does that prove though? Other than someone has a hobby of trawling for idiots.
Good grief. Try this
"The nation’s reckoning over race has reached thousands of U.S. schools, and so, too, has a conservative backlash.
"Schools across the country are working to address systemic racism and inject an anti-racist mind-set into campus life. But where advocates see racial progress, opponents see an effort to shame White teachers and sometimes students for being part of an oppressive system."
THOUSANDS OF SCHOOLS
I dunno, should we listen to the education correspondent of the Washington Post, or.... "Philip Thompson on politicalbetting", who lives in Stoke on Trent and makes model aircraft
This is the one thing I watch on the BBC typically, alternating with Sky News, just gone to put it on - and the TV Guide says that the BBC tonight has a Royal Wedding thing on tonight on BBC1, with a 2009 film on BBC2.
WTAF!? What the hell are we paying a Licence Fee for that there's no Election Night coverage on Election Night. Instead a 12 year old movie and a 10 year old repeat of a wedding.
So much for public service remit nonsense they band about if anybody says why don't you just become a subscription service or have adverts.....like you do with UK Tv, Dave etc that they now own 100% of.
Local climate alliance in my area have, it seems, sent a survey round to all the parties standing today seeking their views on climate, net carbon, air pollution etc (a scorecard on environmental issues as they call it), and put up a sheet with all the responses (overall response rate 37%, ranging from 64% of Green candidates and only 1% of Tory candidates) in one document so people can compare each candidate in each division (where there were responses)
Ambitious, but must have taken quite a bit of work and well done them for doing it. They also have a whole bunch of info on marginal wards, how cllrs have voted on climate issues. Really good to see that effort.
Now being told that in some areas the voting is over 70% but the Tories think it is in areas good for them. Personally I remain to be convinced that this is encouraging for them.
If turnout is that high then the result absolutely must be respected, whatever it is.
Heck it must be respected either way - if you don't vote, you don't get to complain - but if it is that high then there's really no grounds to complain either way whoever loses.
As I said before during and after, Brexit was the remaking of politics, the end of the Thatcher-Blair era and the start of a new one. We have reshaped politics with Brexit, and now we have new parties in old places.
The old Labour party is now the Johnsonite Tory party. Johnson's political platform is what Labour's used to be. Contrary to that, Starmer's Labour party is what the Tories used to be. The labels have changed, the politics have not.
They're voting Tory because the Tories offer what Labour used to offer. They're rejecting Labour because they represent what the Tories used to represent.
I don't see Labour as representing what the Conservatives used to offer.
I think Brexit has not so much remade politics as cemented trends that began in 1979. A lot of historic Conservative seats fell in the Thatcher/Major years, and a lot of historic Labour seats moved in the opposite direction.
That's an astute point.
Maybe the journey has been contentious throughout the last 40 years, and the Blair years weren't as significant as we thought?
Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”? I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.
He'd have been my first choice in London too.
That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary rigplace.
I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.
Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.
I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.
Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.
My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.
I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.
Maybe I should come and work for you?
I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.
There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.
I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
Casino is right. It is slowly making its way through the industries. It started in academe (of course), and is still at its worst there. Absolute carnage, esp in America
It has now moved into the media, the arts, social media, the police, and so on.
And Wokeness is very different to traditional PC concerns. It isn't just disdainful of contrary opinions, it does not allow them, it demands that EVERYONE publicly submits to this one narrow ideology. It is dangerous. But Lefties refuse to see that (until it comes after them, and then they realise their error, too late - eg feminists in the trans-TERF wars)
I feel judged for not clarifying that my “chosen pronouns” are “he/his” in my email signature. It’s annoying.
Maybe you shouldn't be such a snowflake?
I have never put pronouns in my email signature either and I have never felt remotely judged.
I take it from your reply that you assume I’m the sort who uses “snowflake” as an insult himself. I am not. I am the sort of person who is socially liberal but gets fed up of some of this nonsense and is driven away from my natural political home. I feel judged, because I am judged - I continually get asked to add it.
I’m being forced to politically align with social conservatives and I don’t like it.
What industry do you work in?
In and around charities/public sector. It’s part of a race to be seen to be leading the curve I think - and the pressure to do such things is from senior management. I’m sure it’s well meant, but we are moving towards it being inferred that by not having such an email signature, you must be actively hostile to the LGBT+ community. Which is, of course, nonsense.
What's intriguing to me - in the US at least - is that pretty much all the woke stuff in schools is in private establishments.
Given annual fees are often $45k, you'd think they would want to make sure they were delivering what their well heeled parents were demanding. And I'm not 100% convinced those well heeled parents are demanding woke.
Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”? I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.
He'd have been my first choice in London too.
That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary rigplace.
I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.
Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.
I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.
Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.
My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.
I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.
Maybe I should come and work for you?
I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.
There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.
I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
Casino is right. It is slowly making its way through the industries. It started in academe (of course), and is still at its worst there. Absolute carnage, esp in America
It has now moved into the media, the arts, social media, the police, and so on.
And Wokeness is very different to traditional PC concerns. It isn't just disdainful of contrary opinions, it does not allow them, it demands that EVERYONE publicly submits to this one narrow ideology. It is dangerous. But Lefties refuse to see that (until it comes after them, and then they realise their error, too late - eg feminists in the trans-TERF wars)
I feel judged for not clarifying that my “chosen pronouns” are “he/his” in my email signature. It’s annoying.
Maybe you shouldn't be such a snowflake?
I have never put pronouns in my email signature either and I have never felt remotely judged.
I take it from your reply that you assume I’m the sort who uses “snowflake” as an insult himself. I am not. I am the sort of person who is socially liberal but gets fed up of some of this nonsense and is driven away from my natural political home. I feel judged, because I am judged - I continually get asked to add it.
I’m being forced to politically align with social conservatives and I don’t like it.
What industry do you work in?
In and around charities/public sector. It’s part of a race to be seen to be leading the curve I think - and the pressure to do such things is from senior management. I’m sure it’s well meant, but we are moving towards it being inferred that by not having such an email signature, you must be actively hostile to the LGBT+ community. Which is, of course, nonsense.
Yep. I reckon it's a matter of months before it gets to my company.
Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”? I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.
He'd have been my first choice in London too.
That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
I can't find any example of him "race baiting". Do show, I am happy to be schooled
He was very keen on the "All Lives Matter" meme in response to BLM, I recall. You may not think of this as race-baiting, though I do. It was a meme shared by many on the far, far right.
To be fair, if you just heard the phrase "Black Lives Matter" out of any other context, the most obvious inference to be drawn is that, for the speaker, by their exclusion, other lives do not matter - or at very least do not matter as much. I think many people reacted badly to the phrase in the absence of context.
If, on the other hand, you hear the phrase in the context of "of course, all lives matter equally, but historically society has acted as if black lives do not matter, so when we say black lives matter, we are asserting that they do indeed matter as much as any other life" then the BLM phrase is not offensive, and indeed it is offensive not to agree with that sentiment.
And then you go on the Official Black Lives Matter website and you realise they are a Marxist cult that hates the police and wants to deconstruct the family
For a lot of us, that was the problem. By taking the knee you are, in effect, kneeling to corrosive Marxists, who are shamelessly using race as a way to delegitimize Western self-esteem (and make lots of money for themselves)
Official BLM are also anti-Semitic. Of course
Most Sinn Fein and IRA supporters had no idea they were Marxist either. When the collection tray was passed around in Boston for "The Boys", did people realise they were supporting an explicitly Marxist organization? Or did they just support Irish nationalism.
The IRA were good at presenting themselves as a Catholic nationalist movement in the US, and a left wing movement in the UK.
The Official IRA were out and out Marxists, the Provos less so.
WRT woke, Hertsmere is a Conservative council; my wife is HR manager there, and it just does not exist in that borough. I accept somewhere like Islington or Lambeth would probably be very different, but I don't think it's an issue outside of solidly left wing boroughs. Most boroughs are not solidly left wing.
This is the one thing I watch on the BBC typically, alternating with Sky News, just gone to put it on - and the TV Guide says that the BBC tonight has a Royal Wedding thing on tonight on BBC1, with a 2009 film on BBC2.
WTAF!? What the hell are we paying a Licence Fee for that there's no Election Night coverage on Election Night. Instead a 12 year old movie and a 10 year old repeat of a wedding.
How many results do you think will be declared TONIGHT?
Now being told that in some areas the voting is over 70% but the Tories think it is in areas good for them. Personally I remain to be convinced that this is encouraging for them.
I've long been of the view that you can't tell who is going to benefit from either high or low turnout.
More rumours of a Labour clusterfuck in Sunderland tonight - and they're also counting straight away so it might be a very early amuse bouche for Hartlepool in the morning.
So, I voted Lib Dem. I'm now on the gin as I try and come to terms with it.
Do I get a free pair of sandals now from OGH or @IanB2 ?
Well done. Unbelievably bad take on Lozza from you this evening but any Tory taking a break from the habit merits a round of applause and I am in fact clapping as I type. Which few can do.
This is the one thing I watch on the BBC typically, alternating with Sky News, just gone to put it on - and the TV Guide says that the BBC tonight has a Royal Wedding thing on tonight on BBC1, with a 2009 film on BBC2.
WTAF!? What the hell are we paying a Licence Fee for that there's no Election Night coverage on Election Night. Instead a 12 year old movie and a 10 year old repeat of a wedding.
Sky News: Midnight 'Vote 2021'
So someone's realised there's an election going on today.
And people insist we have to pay the licence fee by law. So that on election night we can get a 12 year old George Clooney film and a 10 year old Royal Wedding film. Jesus H Christ, I don't want to start another BBC debate but this is ridiculous.
Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”? I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.
He'd have been my first choice in London too.
That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
I can't find any example of him "race baiting". Do show, I am happy to be schooled
He was very keen on the "All Lives Matter" meme in response to BLM, I recall. You may not think of this as race-baiting, though I do. It was a meme shared by many on the far, far right.
He’s a dog-whistler.
He’s “All Lives Matter”, he’s “There we’re no Sikhs in WW1”, he’s “people who say I have white privilege are RACIST”.
Then he called for a boycott of Sainsbury’s because they celebrated Black History Month.
These are in one sense banal comments, maybe even arguable case by case, but in essence he is trying to appeal to the bigot vote.
And while he probably started down this path inadvertently, he’s realised it generated a lot of attention, so he’s moving on to anti-vax flirtation and climate change scepticism.
AND he’s a really shit musician.
So, no evidence of Mosleyite race-baiting, just some "arguable opinions". On the other hand, he IS a shit musician
Oh-kay
The shit musicianship is critical. It was so bad it was an internet meme for a while. Here’s a “version” for your private wankbank.
Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”? I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.
He'd have been my first choice in London too.
That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary rigplace.
I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.
Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.
I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.
Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.
My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.
I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.
Maybe I should come and work for you?
I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.
There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.
I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
Casino is right. It is slowly making its way through the industries. It started in academe (of course), and is still at its worst there. Absolute carnage, esp in America
It has now moved into the media, the arts, social media, the police, and so on.
And Wokeness is very different to traditional PC concerns. It isn't just disdainful of contrary opinions, it does not allow them, it demands that EVERYONE publicly submits to this one narrow ideology. It is dangerous. But Lefties refuse to see that (until it comes after them, and then they realise their error, too late - eg feminists in the trans-TERF wars)
I feel judged for not clarifying that my “chosen pronouns” are “he/his” in my email signature. It’s annoying.
Maybe you shouldn't be such a snowflake?
I have never put pronouns in my email signature either and I have never felt remotely judged.
I take it from your reply that you assume I’m the sort who uses “snowflake” as an insult himself. I am not. I am the sort of person who is socially liberal but gets fed up of some of this nonsense and is driven away from my natural political home. I feel judged, because I am judged - I continually get asked to add it.
I’m being forced to politically align with social conservatives and I don’t like it.
What industry do you work in?
In and around charities/public sector. It’s part of a race to be seen to be leading the curve I think - and the pressure to do such things is from senior management. I’m sure it’s well meant, but we are moving towards it being inferred that by not having such an email signature, you must be actively hostile to the LGBT+ community. Which is, of course, nonsense.
What's intriguing to me - in the US at least - is that pretty much all the woke stuff in schools is in private establishments.
Given annual fees are often $45k, you'd think they would want to make sure they were delivering what their well heeled parents were demanding. And I'm not 100% convinced those well heeled parents are demanding woke.
I think it’s a well intentioned attempt to lead, but I think it misses the point.
They think they are where those like me were in the late nineties, when were a minority in favour of gay marriage. I think they are missing the target and forcing people like me into voting for social conservatives when I would rather be finishing the job on equality and diversity. By pushing at this stuff, I think they stop wider progress.
Well done you. Mrs Dumbosaurus (from Zambia originally) was not persuaded to vote by my "hundreds of Rhodesians died during WW2 so that Brits could have free elections" line.
As for me, I went Tory for the local councils (cause I told the candidate who was the same for both I would vote for him) and Labour for PCC (I think that the Tory would have been better overall but the man in his manifesto was pleased... nay... PROUD ffs - that he had purchased two speed camera vans. I wasn't going to endorse that)
Labour will buy four more.
With your money.
Don't doubt it in practice, but I like to take the stated intention in manifestos into account and he was the only one who wasn't anti motorist. So he deserves my vote as a reward for that. He is also a cyber security consultant and generally sounded a sensible chap.
In fact I had initially intended on voting Lib Dem for PCC on the basis he was going to decriminalise cannabis which is important to a dumbosaur but not so much as doing 150mph on the M1, and he was even worse with the persecution of non law-abiding motorists.
In any case the Tory will win.
Edit: I'm moving to a completely different part of the country in a couple of months. So they'll be buying it with someone else's money.
Now being told that in some areas the voting is over 70% but the Tories think it is in areas good for them. Personally I remain to be convinced that this is encouraging for them.
I've long been of the view that you can't tell who is going to benefit from either high or low turnout.
And, of course, a huge turnout in the 2014 referendum - which the Nats thought benefited them - turned out to be shy or apathetic NO supporters finally turning out: en masse
Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”? I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.
He'd have been my first choice in London too.
That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.
Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.
I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.
Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.
My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.
I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.
Maybe I should come and work for you?
I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.
There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.
I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
Oh God, the "it's all on Twitter" stuff again.
This gets so tedious going through this and reexplaining it night after night.
I think they are genuinely clueless about Woke. See Robert Smithson's remarkably dim and myopic comments about Wokery in American education.
He thought it was confined to "just one school in New York". Jesus
I am trying to work out why they are so blinkered. My guess it is generally just luck: they work in STEMy financey industries that attract geeks - which are so far largely unaffected by all this.
Anyone in the arts knows how real and menacing it is. Publishing, for example. is being roiled. Writers are cancelled all over the place. Rivals use cancel culture to take down enemies. Vicious. And it is often Left-on-Left. Same in TV and movies, if not worse, I have friends at the Beeb with hair-raising stories
They will feel different when it enters their professions, which it will eventually, if nothing changes
It is confined to a few schools in America. You go trawling the internet looking for stuff to piss you off and you've gone deep down the woke rabbit hole. In a country of 340 million people there's going to be more than a few idiots doing stupid shit. Go trawling for it and you'll find it.
I could, if I had the interest, go trawling for dumb religious shit that happens in America and it would massively massively outnumber the dumb woke stuff that you trawl for. It won't even be difficult at all trying to find schools in America doing stupid stuff because of religion.
What does that prove though? Other than someone has a hobby of trawling for idiots.
Good grief. Try this
"The nation’s reckoning over race has reached thousands of U.S. schools, and so, too, has a conservative backlash.
"Schools across the country are working to address systemic racism and inject an anti-racist mind-set into campus life. But where advocates see racial progress, opponents see an effort to shame White teachers and sometimes students for being part of an oppressive system."
THOUSANDS OF SCHOOLS
I dunno, should we listen to the education correspondent of the Washington Post, or.... "Philip Thompson on politicalbetting", who lives in Stoke on Trent and makes model aircraft
I often say I live in the North. Only someone who has never travelled across the country or left London could think that Stoke On Trent is in the North.
Now being told that in some areas the voting is over 70% but the Tories think it is in areas good for them. Personally I remain to be convinced that this is encouraging for them.
I've long been of the view that you can't tell who is going to benefit from either high or low turnout.
Well the turnout was really high in 2014 and the Unionists won fairly comfortably but in 2019 the Tory vote held up perfectly well in Angus and the SNP found an extra 4k votes to win the seat.
It's definitely more interesting without an exit poll. The last General Election was, oh, ho hum, that's all done then. Bit of protracted mystery here.
Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”? I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.
He'd have been my first choice in London too.
That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.
Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.
I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.
Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.
My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.
I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.
Maybe I should come and work for you?
I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.
There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.
I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
I was once given a verbal warning for innocently referring to someone as a scouser. “Which guy from IT came round earlier?” “You know Mike, the scouse guy”.
This was 20 years ago pre wokism.
Why would this be a problem? Even now?
Unless the guy is trying to pretend he is a something-else, like all those actor-musicky-arty types who changed their northern accents to be southern.
I was told by the passing HR feminazi, “how do you think he would feel if he heard you call him a scouser?”
“Not a lot, my grandad was from liverpool and proudly called himself a scouser”.
“Consider this a formal warning”.
This was at a bulge bracket bank. Max is guilty of extrapolating his own experience too far.
Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”? I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.
He'd have been my first choice in London too.
That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary rigplace.
I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.
Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.
I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.
Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.
My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.
I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.
Maybe I should come and work for you?
I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.
There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.
I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
Casino is right. It is slowly making its way through the industries. It started in academe (of course), and is still at its worst there. Absolute carnage, esp in America
It has now moved into the media, the arts, social media, the police, and so on.
And Wokeness is very different to traditional PC concerns. It isn't just disdainful of contrary opinions, it does not allow them, it demands that EVERYONE publicly submits to this one narrow ideology. It is dangerous. But Lefties refuse to see that (until it comes after them, and then they realise their error, too late - eg feminists in the trans-TERF wars)
I feel judged for not clarifying that my “chosen pronouns” are “he/his” in my email signature. It’s annoying.
Maybe you shouldn't be such a snowflake?
I have never put pronouns in my email signature either and I have never felt remotely judged.
I take it from your reply that you assume I’m the sort who uses “snowflake” as an insult himself. I am not. I am the sort of person who is socially liberal but gets fed up of some of this nonsense and is driven away from my natural political home. I feel judged, because I am judged - I continually get asked to add it.
I’m being forced to politically align with social conservatives and I don’t like it.
What industry do you work in?
In and around charities/public sector. It’s part of a race to be seen to be leading the curve I think - and the pressure to do such things is from senior management. I’m sure it’s well meant, but we are moving towards it being inferred that by not having such an email signature, you must be actively hostile to the LGBT+ community. Which is, of course, nonsense.
What's intriguing to me - in the US at least - is that pretty much all the woke stuff in schools is in private establishments.
Given annual fees are often $45k, you'd think they would want to make sure they were delivering what their well heeled parents were demanding. And I'm not 100% convinced those well heeled parents are demanding woke.
Plenty of it in colleges & universities, both public and private. As per testimony of two friends, both flaming liberals (to my left) one a (public) community college instructor (mentioned up thread) the other a (private) university professor.
As I said before during and after, Brexit was the remaking of politics, the end of the Thatcher-Blair era and the start of a new one. We have reshaped politics with Brexit, and now we have new parties in old places.
The old Labour party is now the Johnsonite Tory party. Johnson's political platform is what Labour's used to be. Contrary to that, Starmer's Labour party is what the Tories used to be. The labels have changed, the politics have not.
They're voting Tory because the Tories offer what Labour used to offer. They're rejecting Labour because they represent what the Tories used to represent.
I don't see Labour as representing what the Conservatives used to offer.
I think Brexit has not so much remade politics as cemented trends that began in 1979. A lot of historic Conservative seats fell in the Thatcher/Major years, and a lot of historic Labour seats moved in the opposite direction.
You might not see them like that. A lot of former Labour voters do
So, I voted Lib Dem. I'm now on the gin as I try and come to terms with it.
Do I get a free pair of sandals now from OGH or @IanB2 ?
Well done. Unbelievably bad take on Lozza from you this evening but any Tory taking a break from the habit merits a round of applause and I am in fact clapping as I type. Which few can do.
Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”? I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.
He'd have been my first choice in London too.
That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.
Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.
I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.
Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.
My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.
I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.
Maybe I should come and work for you?
I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.
There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.
I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
Oh God, the "it's all on Twitter" stuff again.
This gets so tedious going through this and reexplaining it night after night.
I think they are genuinely clueless about Woke. See Robert Smithson's remarkably dim and myopic comments about Wokery in American education.
He thought it was confined to "just one school in New York". Jesus
I am trying to work out why they are so blinkered. My guess it is generally just luck: they work in STEMy financey industries that attract geeks - which are so far largely unaffected by all this.
Anyone in the arts knows how real and menacing it is. Publishing, for example. is being roiled. Writers are cancelled all over the place. Rivals use cancel culture to take down enemies. Vicious. And it is often Left-on-Left. Same in TV and movies, if not worse, I have friends at the Beeb with hair-raising stories
They will feel different when it enters their professions, which it will eventually, if nothing changes
It is confined to a few schools in America. You go trawling the internet looking for stuff to piss you off and you've gone deep down the woke rabbit hole. In a country of 340 million people there's going to be more than a few idiots doing stupid shit. Go trawling for it and you'll find it.
I could, if I had the interest, go trawling for dumb religious shit that happens in America and it would massively massively outnumber the dumb woke stuff that you trawl for. It won't even be difficult at all trying to find schools in America doing stupid stuff because of religion.
What does that prove though? Other than someone has a hobby of trawling for idiots.
Good grief. Try this
"The nation’s reckoning over race has reached thousands of U.S. schools, and so, too, has a conservative backlash.
"Schools across the country are working to address systemic racism and inject an anti-racist mind-set into campus life. But where advocates see racial progress, opponents see an effort to shame White teachers and sometimes students for being part of an oppressive system."
THOUSANDS OF SCHOOLS
I dunno, should we listen to the education correspondent of the Washington Post, or.... "Philip Thompson on politicalbetting", who lives in Stoke on Trent and makes model aircraft
I often say I live in the North. Only someone who has never travelled across the country or left London could think that Stoke On Trent is in the North.
Stoke on Trent is horrible, it's north of here, and idiots like you live there
That's more than North enough for me. It's basically Jarrow
As I said before during and after, Brexit was the remaking of politics, the end of the Thatcher-Blair era and the start of a new one. We have reshaped politics with Brexit, and now we have new parties in old places.
The old Labour party is now the Johnsonite Tory party. Johnson's political platform is what Labour's used to be. Contrary to that, Starmer's Labour party is what the Tories used to be. The labels have changed, the politics have not.
They're voting Tory because the Tories offer what Labour used to offer. They're rejecting Labour because they represent what the Tories used to represent.
I don't see Labour as representing what the Conservatives used to offer.
I think Brexit has not so much remade politics as cemented trends that began in 1979. A lot of historic Conservative seats fell in the Thatcher/Major years, and a lot of historic Labour seats moved in the opposite direction.
I think this is right but I'd upgrade "cemented" to "turbocharged".
Plus I'd give "Boris" some credit as well as Brexit. The combination is lethal in trad WWC areas.
I’ve been reading this site from afar for years, but this is my first post. Hello all! I’ll try to remain courteous 😉
Welcome. It's a moment of high tension you've chosen here, on one of the most important British election nights on record. Many will not sleep till 6am, chanting and singing into the early hours.
WRT woke, Hertsmere is a Conservative council; my wife is HR manager there, and it just does not exist in that borough. I accept somewhere like Islington or Lambeth would probably be very different, but I don't think it's an issue outside of solidly left wing boroughs. Most boroughs are not solidly left wing.
It's definitely better in the Shires and provinces.
I spent four months working on Transpennine this year, based out of Leeds and York. Doesn't exist there yet. Great sense of humour along the lines of "Airplane", which was so refreshing.
But, this stuff spreads quickly. It needs to be suffocated at source.
This is the one thing I watch on the BBC typically, alternating with Sky News, just gone to put it on - and the TV Guide says that the BBC tonight has a Royal Wedding thing on tonight on BBC1, with a 2009 film on BBC2.
WTAF!? What the hell are we paying a Licence Fee for that there's no Election Night coverage on Election Night. Instead a 12 year old movie and a 10 year old repeat of a wedding.
Sky News: Midnight 'Vote 2021'
So someone's realised there's an election going on today.
And people insist we have to pay the licence fee by law. So that on election night we can get a 12 year old George Clooney film and a 10 year old Royal Wedding film. Jesus H Christ, I don't want to start another BBC debate but this is ridiculous.
perhaps the BBC don't think it's important. Something must be on BBC news24
Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”? I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.
He'd have been my first choice in London too.
That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.
Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.
I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.
Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.
My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.
I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.
Maybe I should come and work for you?
I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.
There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.
I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
Oh God, the "it's all on Twitter" stuff again.
This gets so tedious going through this and reexplaining it night after night.
I think they are genuinely clueless about Woke. See Robert Smithson's remarkably dim and myopic comments about Wokery in American education.
He thought it was confined to "just one school in New York". Jesus
I am trying to work out why they are so blinkered. My guess it is generally just luck: they work in STEMy financey industries that attract geeks - which are so far largely unaffected by all this.
Anyone in the arts knows how real and menacing it is. Publishing, for example. is being roiled. Writers are cancelled all over the place. Rivals use cancel culture to take down enemies. Vicious. And it is often Left-on-Left. Same in TV and movies, if not worse, I have friends at the Beeb with hair-raising stories
They will feel different when it enters their professions, which it will eventually, if nothing changes
I'm sceptical of what I don't see with my own eyes.
I also know several parents of Brentwood School kids and have reached out to discover the veracity of your story. Because the reality is that I have seen literally nothing.
Now, it's possible my children are hiding stuff from me. But I doubt it.
Now being told that in some areas the voting is over 70% but the Tories think it is in areas good for them. Personally I remain to be convinced that this is encouraging for them.
If turnout is that high then the result absolutely must be respected, whatever it is.
Heck it must be respected either way - if you don't vote, you don't get to complain - but if it is that high then there's really no grounds to complain either way whoever loses.
Agree. But a bit hard to reconcile reports of 70%+ with reports from both sides that Tory areas are voting most - frankly if it's 70+ then everyone is voting heavily, since it won't be over 85% anywhere (people die, move, fall ill).
But anyway I imagine the Lab->BXP switchers were mainly in strong Labour areas.
Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”? I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.
He'd have been my first choice in London too.
That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.
Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.
I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.
Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.
My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.
I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.
Maybe I should come and work for you?
I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.
There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.
I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
Oh God, the "it's all on Twitter" stuff again.
This gets so tedious going through this and reexplaining it night after night.
I think they are genuinely clueless about Woke. See Robert Smithson's remarkably dim and myopic comments about Wokery in American education.
He thought it was confined to "just one school in New York". Jesus
I am trying to work out why they are so blinkered. My guess it is generally just luck: they work in STEMy financey industries that attract geeks - which are so far largely unaffected by all this.
Anyone in the arts knows how real and menacing it is. Publishing, for example. is being roiled. Writers are cancelled all over the place. Rivals use cancel culture to take down enemies. Vicious. And it is often Left-on-Left. Same in TV and movies, if not worse, I have friends at the Beeb with hair-raising stories
They will feel different when it enters their professions, which it will eventually, if nothing changes
It is confined to a few schools in America. You go trawling the internet looking for stuff to piss you off and you've gone deep down the woke rabbit hole. In a country of 340 million people there's going to be more than a few idiots doing stupid shit. Go trawling for it and you'll find it.
I could, if I had the interest, go trawling for dumb religious shit that happens in America and it would massively massively outnumber the dumb woke stuff that you trawl for. It won't even be difficult at all trying to find schools in America doing stupid stuff because of religion.
What does that prove though? Other than someone has a hobby of trawling for idiots.
Good grief. Try this
"The nation’s reckoning over race has reached thousands of U.S. schools, and so, too, has a conservative backlash.
"Schools across the country are working to address systemic racism and inject an anti-racist mind-set into campus life. But where advocates see racial progress, opponents see an effort to shame White teachers and sometimes students for being part of an oppressive system."
THOUSANDS OF SCHOOLS
I dunno, should we listen to the education correspondent of the Washington Post, or.... "Philip Thompson on politicalbetting", who lives in Stoke on Trent and makes model aircraft
There’s always a conservative backlash against things that are worth doing. No conservative backlash means either nothing much is happening or what's happening is nothing much.
This is the one thing I watch on the BBC typically, alternating with Sky News, just gone to put it on - and the TV Guide says that the BBC tonight has a Royal Wedding thing on tonight on BBC1, with a 2009 film on BBC2.
WTAF!? What the hell are we paying a Licence Fee for that there's no Election Night coverage on Election Night. Instead a 12 year old movie and a 10 year old repeat of a wedding.
Sky News: Midnight 'Vote 2021'
So someone's realised there's an election going on today.
And people insist we have to pay the licence fee by law. So that on election night we can get a 12 year old George Clooney film and a 10 year old Royal Wedding film. Jesus H Christ, I don't want to start another BBC debate but this is ridiculous.
I'm sure there will be coverage on BBC News 24 of the Hartlepool result when it comes through. I think the rest start being counted and analysed tomorrow?
I’ve been reading this site from afar for years, but this is my first post. Hello all! I’ll try to remain courteous 😉
Welcome. And keep in mind that on PB, posting trumps (in a manner of speaking) courtesy most of the time!
So what kind of political nutjob are you, anyway? (See my point!)
Thanks for all the welcomes! Getting used to quoting and posting so may well mess this up. I could well be one of those staying up tonight - I’ve taken tomorrow off. Let’s say I go strongly against the grain in my South Wales constituency 😉
The Labour Party appears to be irrevocably, terminally split. Starmer is actually doing a good job holding things together, things are far worse than they appear. Keeping the lights on is taking all Starmers energy.
I believe Starmer made a political mistake personally getting involved with the corruption story. He should have delegated the attack and risen above it. Party splits make that tricky.
The story was toxic for Labour as it was an old fashioned Westminster centric story and the electorate are not best pleased with Westminster post Brexit. He tarnished himself.
This one was always going to be hard due to vaccines. Starmer might have found a cause outside of Westminster, looking ahead and made it the centre. The end of furlough, NHS 1% pay rise or tax rises. Anything that came from the insights into the electorate.
I fear Starmer may not yet be a political animal with antennae tuned to the electorate. He is set up right now as a perfect reforming Labour Home Secretary, but not yet the street fighter leader Labour needs to claw back.
The coming storm will test him and see if he can make the leap.
As I said before during and after, Brexit was the remaking of politics, the end of the Thatcher-Blair era and the start of a new one. We have reshaped politics with Brexit, and now we have new parties in old places.
The old Labour party is now the Johnsonite Tory party. Johnson's political platform is what Labour's used to be. Contrary to that, Starmer's Labour party is what the Tories used to be. The labels have changed, the politics have not.
They're voting Tory because the Tories offer what Labour used to offer. They're rejecting Labour because they represent what the Tories used to represent.
I don't see Labour as representing what the Conservatives used to offer.
I think Brexit has not so much remade politics as cemented trends that began in 1979. A lot of historic Conservative seats fell in the Thatcher/Major years, and a lot of historic Labour seats moved in the opposite direction.
You might not see them like that. A lot of former Labour voters do
Yep. A party that actively despises the working class and its priorities.
Comments
That’s Robyn Murdoch? I always thought that was Robyn Murdoch’s secretary; someone who’s name I didn’t know.
"The nation’s reckoning over race has reached thousands of U.S. schools, and so, too, has a conservative backlash.
"Schools across the country are working to address systemic racism and inject an anti-racist mind-set into campus life. But where advocates see racial progress, opponents see an effort to shame White teachers and sometimes students for being part of an oppressive system."
THOUSANDS OF SCHOOLS
I dunno, should we listen to the education correspondent of the Washington Post, or.... "Philip Thompson on politicalbetting", who lives in Stoke on Trent and makes model aircraft
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/05/03/critical-race-theory-backlash/
Ambitious, but must have taken quite a bit of work and well done them for doing it. They also have a whole bunch of info on marginal wards, how cllrs have voted on climate issues. Really good to see that effort.
Heck it must be respected either way - if you don't vote, you don't get to complain - but if it is that high then there's really no grounds to complain either way whoever loses.
Maybe the journey has been contentious throughout the last 40 years, and the Blair years weren't as significant as we thought?
Given annual fees are often $45k, you'd think they would want to make sure they were delivering what their well heeled parents were demanding. And I'm not 100% convinced those well heeled parents are demanding woke.
Can someone explain what that means
What do you think?
Labour saying they are 98% sure Hartlepool going conservative
And people insist we have to pay the licence fee by law. So that on election night we can get a 12 year old George Clooney film and a 10 year old Royal Wedding film. Jesus H Christ, I don't want to start another BBC debate but this is ridiculous.
Off-putting hardly does it justice!
They think they are where those like me were in the late nineties, when were a minority in favour of gay marriage. I think they are missing the target and forcing people like me into voting for social conservatives when I would rather be finishing the job on equality and diversity. By pushing at this stuff, I think they stop wider progress.
In fact I had initially intended on voting Lib Dem for PCC on the basis he was going to decriminalise cannabis which is important to a dumbosaur but not so much as doing 150mph on the M1, and he was even worse with the persecution of non law-abiding motorists.
In any case the Tory will win.
Edit: I'm moving to a completely different part of the country in a couple of months. So they'll be buying it with someone else's money.
Then again - who cares.
Who knows
No Scottish exit polling?
I often say I live in the North. Only someone who has never travelled across the country or left London could think that Stoke On Trent is in the North.
98%? That's a strange number for them to choose.
But IF in the tiniest remote possibility LAB has lost then it is the no 1 all time LAB worst parliamentary result of all time
Colchester
Derby
Dudley
Gateshead
Harlow
Knowsley
Newcastle
Northumberland
Nuneaton & Bedworth
Oldham
Redditch
Rochdale
Rochford
Southend
South Tyneside
Stevenage
Stockport
Sunderland
Thurrock
Doncaster Mayor
“Not a lot, my grandad was from liverpool and proudly called himself a scouser”.
“Consider this a formal warning”.
This was at a bulge bracket bank. Max is guilty of extrapolating his own experience too far.
NEW THREAD
That's more than North enough for me. It's basically Jarrow
What do we reckon?
Plus I'd give "Boris" some credit as well as Brexit. The combination is lethal in trad WWC areas.
So what kind of political nutjob are you, anyway? (See my point!)
I spent four months working on Transpennine this year, based out of Leeds and York. Doesn't exist there yet. Great sense of humour along the lines of "Airplane", which was so refreshing.
But, this stuff spreads quickly. It needs to be suffocated at source.
But anyway I imagine the Lab->BXP switchers were mainly in strong Labour areas.
The Labour Party appears to be irrevocably, terminally split.
Starmer is actually doing a good job holding things together, things are far worse than they appear.
Keeping the lights on is taking all Starmers energy.
I believe Starmer made a political mistake personally getting involved with the corruption story. He should have delegated the attack and risen above it. Party splits make that tricky.
The story was toxic for Labour as it was an old fashioned Westminster centric story and the electorate are not best pleased with Westminster post Brexit. He tarnished himself.
This one was always going to be hard due to vaccines. Starmer might have found a cause outside of Westminster, looking ahead and made it the centre. The end of furlough, NHS 1% pay rise or tax rises. Anything that came from the insights into the electorate.
I fear Starmer may not yet be a political animal with antennae tuned to the electorate. He is set up right now as a perfect reforming Labour Home Secretary, but not yet the street fighter leader Labour needs to claw back.
The coming storm will test him and see if he can make the leap.
Does he live in a semi in Surbiton? Or is it real?
Funny old world.