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Why the likely CON win in Hartlepool won’t be as big a deal as some are saying – politicalbetting.co

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  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    Re-posted from end of last thread:

    1. There's no vacancy as leader of the Labour Party. Starmer isn't going anywhere for at least a year, even if tonight's results are horrendous. And there won't be a challenge.

    2. Don't forget that Starmer won the leadership election hands down. The idea that there's any appetite for somebody like Burgon from the membership is ludicrous.

    3. If Starmer were to jack it in, I'd expect both Rayner and Nandy to stand. Nandy would win, because she'd run a better, more articulate campaign and has the ability to appeal to all factions in the party apart from the far, far left who are, as can be seen from the last leader/deputy election, in retreat.

    2. Because he was supposed to be a vote winner and promised to unite


    Failed miserably on both fronts

    PLP knives will be out IMO
    Perhaps we could have a night like in 2003 when the knives were out for IDS but they had to be put away again because the gains went against the narrative.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,461
    Andy_JS said:

    Binface is massive in London. And is projected to beat LD.

    Binface will flatter to deceive.
    As long as the others pick up his key policies I don't really mind who delivers them.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,153
    edited May 2021

    Is there no election night special on TV tonight?

    This is the one thing I watch on the BBC typically, alternating with Sky News, just gone to put it on - and the TV Guide says that the BBC tonight has a Royal Wedding thing on tonight on BBC1, with a 2009 film on BBC2.

    WTAF!? What the hell are we paying a Licence Fee for that there's no Election Night coverage on Election Night. Instead a 12 year old movie and a 10 year old repeat of a wedding.

    Sky News: Midnight 'Vote 2021'
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm very much with @MaxPB - I simply haven't seen a single *real* piece of woke in real life. I realise that I shouldn't trust my own eyes and ears, and should rely entirely on Twitter, but that is my reality at work, at home, and with my kids education.

    My employer runs a course on micro-aggressions. Does that count as woke?
    On how best to hide them in plain sight, I hope?
    I struggle not to laugh when it gets talked about. I always want to quote Hugh Abbott:

    That’s Robyn Murdoch? I always thought that was Robyn Murdoch’s secretary; someone who’s name I didn’t know.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    DavidL said:

    Now being told that in some areas the voting is over 70% but the Tories think it is in areas good for them. Personally I remain to be convinced that this is encouraging for them.

    That's the first genuinely interesting election prediction / rumour I've heard all day.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,302

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”?
    I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.

    He'd have been my first choice in London too.
    That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
    I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.

    Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
    It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.

    I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.

    Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.

    My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
    I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.

    I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.

    Maybe I should come and work for you?
    I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.

    There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.

    I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
    Oh God, the "it's all on Twitter" stuff again.

    This gets so tedious going through this and reexplaining it night after night.
    I think they are genuinely clueless about Woke. See Robert Smithson's remarkably dim and myopic comments about Wokery in American education.

    He thought it was confined to "just one school in New York". Jesus

    I am trying to work out why they are so blinkered. My guess it is generally just luck: they work in STEMy financey industries that attract geeks - which are so far largely unaffected by all this.

    Anyone in the arts knows how real and menacing it is. Publishing, for example. is being roiled. Writers are cancelled all over the place. Rivals use cancel culture to take down enemies. Vicious. And it is often Left-on-Left. Same in TV and movies, if not worse, I have friends at the Beeb with hair-raising stories

    They will feel different when it enters their professions, which it will eventually, if nothing changes




    It is confined to a few schools in America. You go trawling the internet looking for stuff to piss you off and you've gone deep down the woke rabbit hole. In a country of 340 million people there's going to be more than a few idiots doing stupid shit. Go trawling for it and you'll find it.

    I could, if I had the interest, go trawling for dumb religious shit that happens in America and it would massively massively outnumber the dumb woke stuff that you trawl for. It won't even be difficult at all trying to find schools in America doing stupid stuff because of religion.

    What does that prove though? Other than someone has a hobby of trawling for idiots.
    Good grief. Try this

    "The nation’s reckoning over race has reached thousands of U.S. schools, and so, too, has a conservative backlash.

    "Schools across the country are working to address systemic racism and inject an anti-racist mind-set into campus life. But where advocates see racial progress, opponents see an effort to shame White teachers and sometimes students for being part of an oppressive system."

    THOUSANDS OF SCHOOLS

    I dunno, should we listen to the education correspondent of the Washington Post, or.... "Philip Thompson on politicalbetting", who lives in Stoke on Trent and makes model aircraft

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/05/03/critical-race-theory-backlash/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Is there no election night special on TV tonight?

    This is the one thing I watch on the BBC typically, alternating with Sky News, just gone to put it on - and the TV Guide says that the BBC tonight has a Royal Wedding thing on tonight on BBC1, with a 2009 film on BBC2.

    WTAF!? What the hell are we paying a Licence Fee for that there's no Election Night coverage on Election Night. Instead a 12 year old movie and a 10 year old repeat of a wedding.

    So much for public service remit nonsense they band about if anybody says why don't you just become a subscription service or have adverts.....like you do with UK Tv, Dave etc that they now own 100% of.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Local climate alliance in my area have, it seems, sent a survey round to all the parties standing today seeking their views on climate, net carbon, air pollution etc (a scorecard on environmental issues as they call it), and put up a sheet with all the responses (overall response rate 37%, ranging from 64% of Green candidates and only 1% of Tory candidates) in one document so people can compare each candidate in each division (where there were responses)

    Ambitious, but must have taken quite a bit of work and well done them for doing it. They also have a whole bunch of info on marginal wards, how cllrs have voted on climate issues. Really good to see that effort.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DavidL said:

    Now being told that in some areas the voting is over 70% but the Tories think it is in areas good for them. Personally I remain to be convinced that this is encouraging for them.

    If turnout is that high then the result absolutely must be respected, whatever it is.

    Heck it must be respected either way - if you don't vote, you don't get to complain - but if it is that high then there's really no grounds to complain either way whoever loses.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038
    Sean_F said:


    And they're still voting Tory.

    As I said before during and after, Brexit was the remaking of politics, the end of the Thatcher-Blair era and the start of a new one. We have reshaped politics with Brexit, and now we have new parties in old places.

    The old Labour party is now the Johnsonite Tory party. Johnson's political platform is what Labour's used to be. Contrary to that, Starmer's Labour party is what the Tories used to be. The labels have changed, the politics have not.

    They're voting Tory because the Tories offer what Labour used to offer. They're rejecting Labour because they represent what the Tories used to represent.
    I don't see Labour as representing what the Conservatives used to offer.

    I think Brexit has not so much remade politics as cemented trends that began in 1979. A lot of historic Conservative seats fell in the Thatcher/Major years, and a lot of historic Labour seats moved in the opposite direction.
    That's an astute point.

    Maybe the journey has been contentious throughout the last 40 years, and the Blair years weren't as significant as we thought?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,778

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”?
    I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.

    He'd have been my first choice in London too.
    That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary rigplace.
    I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.

    Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
    It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.

    I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.

    Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.

    My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
    I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.

    I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.

    Maybe I should come and work for you?
    I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.

    There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.

    I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.

    Casino is right. It is slowly making its way through the industries. It started in academe (of course), and is still at its worst there. Absolute carnage, esp in America

    It has now moved into the media, the arts, social media, the police, and so on.

    And Wokeness is very different to traditional PC concerns. It isn't just disdainful of contrary opinions, it does not allow them, it demands that EVERYONE publicly submits to this one narrow ideology. It is dangerous. But Lefties refuse to see that (until it comes after them, and then they realise their error, too late - eg feminists in the trans-TERF wars)
    I feel judged for not clarifying that my “chosen pronouns” are “he/his” in my email signature. It’s annoying.
    Maybe you shouldn't be such a snowflake?

    I have never put pronouns in my email signature either and I have never felt remotely judged.
    I take it from your reply that you assume I’m the sort who uses “snowflake” as an insult himself. I am not. I am the sort of person who is socially liberal but gets fed up of some of this nonsense and is driven away from my natural political home. I feel judged, because I am judged - I continually get asked to add it.

    I’m being forced to politically align with social conservatives and I don’t like it.
    What industry do you work in?
    In and around charities/public sector. It’s part of a race to be seen to be leading the curve I think - and the pressure to do such things is from senior management. I’m sure it’s well meant, but we are moving towards it being inferred that by not having such an email signature, you must be actively hostile to the LGBT+ community. Which is, of course, nonsense.
    What's intriguing to me - in the US at least - is that pretty much all the woke stuff in schools is in private establishments.

    Given annual fees are often $45k, you'd think they would want to make sure they were delivering what their well heeled parents were demanding. And I'm not 100% convinced those well heeled parents are demanding woke.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Labour at 18

    Can someone explain what that means
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”?
    I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.

    He'd have been my first choice in London too.
    That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary rigplace.
    I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.

    Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
    It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.

    I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.

    Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.

    My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
    I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.

    I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.

    Maybe I should come and work for you?
    I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.

    There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.

    I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.

    Casino is right. It is slowly making its way through the industries. It started in academe (of course), and is still at its worst there. Absolute carnage, esp in America

    It has now moved into the media, the arts, social media, the police, and so on.

    And Wokeness is very different to traditional PC concerns. It isn't just disdainful of contrary opinions, it does not allow them, it demands that EVERYONE publicly submits to this one narrow ideology. It is dangerous. But Lefties refuse to see that (until it comes after them, and then they realise their error, too late - eg feminists in the trans-TERF wars)
    I feel judged for not clarifying that my “chosen pronouns” are “he/his” in my email signature. It’s annoying.
    Maybe you shouldn't be such a snowflake?

    I have never put pronouns in my email signature either and I have never felt remotely judged.
    I take it from your reply that you assume I’m the sort who uses “snowflake” as an insult himself. I am not. I am the sort of person who is socially liberal but gets fed up of some of this nonsense and is driven away from my natural political home. I feel judged, because I am judged - I continually get asked to add it.

    I’m being forced to politically align with social conservatives and I don’t like it.
    What industry do you work in?
    In and around charities/public sector. It’s part of a race to be seen to be leading the curve I think - and the pressure to do such things is from senior management. I’m sure it’s well meant, but we are moving towards it being inferred that by not having such an email signature, you must be actively hostile to the LGBT+ community. Which is, of course, nonsense.
    Yep. I reckon it's a matter of months before it gets to my company.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,288
    edited May 2021
    Sky news Labour sources think its the Tories and Tories sources think its the Tories...in Hartlepool
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038
    Jonathan said:

    Polls close. Brace.

    Right, dish the dirt now Jonathan - as promised.

    What do you think?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Sky breaking

    Labour saying they are 98% sure Hartlepool going conservative
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,928
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”?
    I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.

    He'd have been my first choice in London too.
    That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
    I can't find any example of him "race baiting". Do show, I am happy to be schooled
    He was very keen on the "All Lives Matter" meme in response to BLM, I recall. You may not think of this as race-baiting, though I do. It was a meme shared by many on the far, far right.
    To be fair, if you just heard the phrase "Black Lives Matter" out of any other context, the most obvious inference to be drawn is that, for the speaker, by their exclusion, other lives do not matter - or at very least do not matter as much. I think many people reacted badly to the phrase in the absence of context.

    If, on the other hand, you hear the phrase in the context of "of course, all lives matter equally, but historically society has acted as if black lives do not matter, so when we say black lives matter, we are asserting that they do indeed matter as much as any other life" then the BLM phrase is not offensive, and indeed it is offensive not to agree with that sentiment.

    And then you go on the Official Black Lives Matter website and you realise they are a Marxist cult that hates the police and wants to deconstruct the family

    For a lot of us, that was the problem. By taking the knee you are, in effect, kneeling to corrosive Marxists, who are shamelessly using race as a way to delegitimize Western self-esteem (and make lots of money for themselves)

    Official BLM are also anti-Semitic. Of course
    Most Sinn Fein and IRA supporters had no idea they were Marxist either. When the collection tray was passed around in Boston for "The Boys", did people realise they were supporting an explicitly Marxist organization? Or did they just support Irish nationalism.
    The IRA were good at presenting themselves as a Catholic nationalist movement in the US, and a left wing movement in the UK.
    The Official IRA were out and out Marxists, the Provos less so.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    Jonathan said:

    Polls close. Brace.

    Long wait this year.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,776
    WRT woke, Hertsmere is a Conservative council; my wife is HR manager there, and it just does not exist in that borough. I accept somewhere like Islington or Lambeth would probably be very different, but I don't think it's an issue outside of solidly left wing boroughs. Most boroughs are not solidly left wing.
  • Sturgeon just been on film saying she was scared of dogs. If I didn’t mistrust her before, I would now.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Jonathan said:

    Polls close. Brace.

    Ok, but remember to tell me when to unbrace. My doctor has told me to be careful not to brace for too long.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,928

    Is there no election night special on TV tonight?

    This is the one thing I watch on the BBC typically, alternating with Sky News, just gone to put it on - and the TV Guide says that the BBC tonight has a Royal Wedding thing on tonight on BBC1, with a 2009 film on BBC2.

    WTAF!? What the hell are we paying a Licence Fee for that there's no Election Night coverage on Election Night. Instead a 12 year old movie and a 10 year old repeat of a wedding.

    How many results do you think will be declared TONIGHT?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,281
    Sky News has Election programme from Midnight to 4am.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,776
    DavidL said:

    Now being told that in some areas the voting is over 70% but the Tories think it is in areas good for them. Personally I remain to be convinced that this is encouraging for them.

    I've long been of the view that you can't tell who is going to benefit from either high or low turnout.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    felix said:

    More rumours of a Labour clusterfuck in Sunderland tonight - and they're also counting straight away so it might be a very early amuse bouche for Hartlepool in the morning.

    Interesting...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,860

    So, I voted Lib Dem. I'm now on the gin as I try and come to terms with it.

    Do I get a free pair of sandals now from OGH or @IanB2 ?

    Well done. Unbelievably bad take on Lozza from you this evening but any Tory taking a break from the habit merits a round of applause and I am in fact clapping as I type. Which few can do.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2021

    Is there no election night special on TV tonight?

    This is the one thing I watch on the BBC typically, alternating with Sky News, just gone to put it on - and the TV Guide says that the BBC tonight has a Royal Wedding thing on tonight on BBC1, with a 2009 film on BBC2.

    WTAF!? What the hell are we paying a Licence Fee for that there's no Election Night coverage on Election Night. Instead a 12 year old movie and a 10 year old repeat of a wedding.

    Sky News: Midnight 'Vote 2021'
    So someone's realised there's an election going on today.

    And people insist we have to pay the licence fee by law. So that on election night we can get a 12 year old George Clooney film and a 10 year old Royal Wedding film. Jesus H Christ, I don't want to start another BBC debate but this is ridiculous.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”?
    I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.

    He'd have been my first choice in London too.
    He’s Oswald Mosley with a pisspoor singing voice.
    He's no such thing. In many respects he's still a bit of a hippy liberal, but not on Wokeness and the right to say whatever the f-ck you think.

    Silly post.
    He’s decided to monetise his mid-life crisis by professional race baiting.

    Disappointed in you.
    He's doing no such thing. And nor is he doing any "race baiting".

    I'm disappointed in you for writing something so nonsensical.

    @Leon has got him dead on. Read what he said.
    Sorry, I’m with @MaxPB and @TSE.
    He really is dross.
    You say he's a Mosleyite race-baiter. Can you prove this?


    If he goes around like Tommy Robinson, fair enough. I have not seen this and I suspect you are talking out of your ample bottom

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”?
    I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.

    He'd have been my first choice in London too.
    That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
    I can't find any example of him "race baiting". Do show, I am happy to be schooled
    He was very keen on the "All Lives Matter" meme in response to BLM, I recall. You may not think of this as race-baiting, though I do. It was a meme shared by many on the far, far right.
    He’s a dog-whistler.

    He’s “All Lives Matter”, he’s “There we’re no Sikhs in WW1”, he’s “people who say I have white privilege are RACIST”.

    Then he called for a boycott of Sainsbury’s because they celebrated Black History Month.

    These are in one sense banal comments, maybe even arguable case by case, but in essence he is trying to appeal to the bigot vote.

    And while he probably started down this path inadvertently, he’s realised it generated a lot of attention, so he’s moving on to anti-vax flirtation and climate change scepticism.

    AND he’s a really shit musician.
    So, no evidence of Mosleyite race-baiting, just some "arguable opinions". On the other hand, he IS a shit musician

    Oh-kay
    The shit musicianship is critical.
    It was so bad it was an internet meme for a while.
    Here’s a “version” for your private wankbank.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2r0XnLs7DSc
    Not sure whom you expect to be practicing (or perfecting) their personal onanism with THAT as an accompaniment?

    Off-putting hardly does it justice!
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”?
    I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.

    He'd have been my first choice in London too.
    That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary rigplace.
    I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.

    Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
    It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.

    I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.

    Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.

    My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
    I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.

    I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.

    Maybe I should come and work for you?
    I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.

    There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.

    I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.

    Casino is right. It is slowly making its way through the industries. It started in academe (of course), and is still at its worst there. Absolute carnage, esp in America

    It has now moved into the media, the arts, social media, the police, and so on.

    And Wokeness is very different to traditional PC concerns. It isn't just disdainful of contrary opinions, it does not allow them, it demands that EVERYONE publicly submits to this one narrow ideology. It is dangerous. But Lefties refuse to see that (until it comes after them, and then they realise their error, too late - eg feminists in the trans-TERF wars)
    I feel judged for not clarifying that my “chosen pronouns” are “he/his” in my email signature. It’s annoying.
    Maybe you shouldn't be such a snowflake?

    I have never put pronouns in my email signature either and I have never felt remotely judged.
    I take it from your reply that you assume I’m the sort who uses “snowflake” as an insult himself. I am not. I am the sort of person who is socially liberal but gets fed up of some of this nonsense and is driven away from my natural political home. I feel judged, because I am judged - I continually get asked to add it.

    I’m being forced to politically align with social conservatives and I don’t like it.
    What industry do you work in?
    In and around charities/public sector. It’s part of a race to be seen to be leading the curve I think - and the pressure to do such things is from senior management. I’m sure it’s well meant, but we are moving towards it being inferred that by not having such an email signature, you must be actively hostile to the LGBT+ community. Which is, of course, nonsense.
    What's intriguing to me - in the US at least - is that pretty much all the woke stuff in schools is in private establishments.

    Given annual fees are often $45k, you'd think they would want to make sure they were delivering what their well heeled parents were demanding. And I'm not 100% convinced those well heeled parents are demanding woke.
    I think it’s a well intentioned attempt to lead, but I think it misses the point.

    They think they are where those like me were in the late nineties, when were a minority in favour of gay marriage. I think they are missing the target and forcing people like me into voting for social conservatives when I would rather be finishing the job on equality and diversity. By pushing at this stuff, I think they stop wider progress.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 137
    edited May 2021

    PS managed to convince my girlfriend to vote 👏

    Well done you. Mrs Dumbosaurus (from Zambia originally) was not persuaded to vote by my "hundreds of Rhodesians died during WW2 so that Brits could have free elections" line.

    As for me, I went Tory for the local councils (cause I told the candidate who was the same for both I would vote for him) and Labour for PCC (I think that the Tory would have been better overall but the man in his manifesto was pleased... nay... PROUD ffs - that he had purchased two speed camera vans. I wasn't going to endorse that)
    Labour will buy four more.

    With your money.
    Don't doubt it in practice, but I like to take the stated intention in manifestos into account and he was the only one who wasn't anti motorist. So he deserves my vote as a reward for that. He is also a cyber security consultant and generally sounded a sensible chap.

    In fact I had initially intended on voting Lib Dem for PCC on the basis he was going to decriminalise cannabis which is important to a dumbosaur but not so much as doing 150mph on the M1, and he was even worse with the persecution of non law-abiding motorists.

    In any case the Tory will win.

    Edit: I'm moving to a completely different part of the country in a couple of months. So they'll be buying it with someone else's money.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620
    Mrs Anabob has forgotten to vote!
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Sky breaking

    Labour saying they are 98% sure Hartlepool going conservative

    I'm wavering a little more now - should we say 'too close to call'? :smiley:
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,016

    So happy for Unai Emery.

    He isn't still the Arse manager? Who is?

    Then again - who cares.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,302
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Now being told that in some areas the voting is over 70% but the Tories think it is in areas good for them. Personally I remain to be convinced that this is encouraging for them.

    I've long been of the view that you can't tell who is going to benefit from either high or low turnout.
    And, of course, a huge turnout in the 2014 referendum - which the Nats thought benefited them - turned out to be shy or apathetic NO supporters finally turning out: en masse

    Who knows
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,289

    So happy for Unai Emery.

    He isn't still the Arse manager? Who is?

    Then again - who cares.
    After tonight's result, who knows?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    Are we likely to learn anything useful in the next two hours?

    No Scottish exit polling?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”?
    I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.

    He'd have been my first choice in London too.
    That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
    I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.

    Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
    It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.

    I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.

    Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.

    My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
    I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.

    I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.

    Maybe I should come and work for you?
    I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.

    There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.

    I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
    Oh God, the "it's all on Twitter" stuff again.

    This gets so tedious going through this and reexplaining it night after night.
    I think they are genuinely clueless about Woke. See Robert Smithson's remarkably dim and myopic comments about Wokery in American education.

    He thought it was confined to "just one school in New York". Jesus

    I am trying to work out why they are so blinkered. My guess it is generally just luck: they work in STEMy financey industries that attract geeks - which are so far largely unaffected by all this.

    Anyone in the arts knows how real and menacing it is. Publishing, for example. is being roiled. Writers are cancelled all over the place. Rivals use cancel culture to take down enemies. Vicious. And it is often Left-on-Left. Same in TV and movies, if not worse, I have friends at the Beeb with hair-raising stories

    They will feel different when it enters their professions, which it will eventually, if nothing changes




    It is confined to a few schools in America. You go trawling the internet looking for stuff to piss you off and you've gone deep down the woke rabbit hole. In a country of 340 million people there's going to be more than a few idiots doing stupid shit. Go trawling for it and you'll find it.

    I could, if I had the interest, go trawling for dumb religious shit that happens in America and it would massively massively outnumber the dumb woke stuff that you trawl for. It won't even be difficult at all trying to find schools in America doing stupid stuff because of religion.

    What does that prove though? Other than someone has a hobby of trawling for idiots.
    Good grief. Try this

    "The nation’s reckoning over race has reached thousands of U.S. schools, and so, too, has a conservative backlash.

    "Schools across the country are working to address systemic racism and inject an anti-racist mind-set into campus life. But where advocates see racial progress, opponents see an effort to shame White teachers and sometimes students for being part of an oppressive system."

    THOUSANDS OF SCHOOLS

    I dunno, should we listen to the education correspondent of the Washington Post, or.... "Philip Thompson on politicalbetting", who lives in Stoke on Trent and makes model aircraft

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/05/03/critical-race-theory-backlash/
    I thought you were supposed to be well travelled?

    I often say I live in the North. Only someone who has never travelled across the country or left London could think that Stoke On Trent is in the North.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,780
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Now being told that in some areas the voting is over 70% but the Tories think it is in areas good for them. Personally I remain to be convinced that this is encouraging for them.

    I've long been of the view that you can't tell who is going to benefit from either high or low turnout.
    Well the turnout was really high in 2014 and the Unionists won fairly comfortably but in 2019 the Tory vote held up perfectly well in Angus and the SNP found an extra 4k votes to win the seat.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,963

    Sky breaking

    Labour saying they are 98% sure Hartlepool going conservative

    It's the 2% that gets you.....
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,289

    Sky breaking

    Labour saying they are 98% sure Hartlepool going conservative


    98%? That's a strange number for them to choose.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,153
    felix said:

    Sky breaking

    Labour saying they are 98% sure Hartlepool going conservative

    I'm wavering a little more now - should we say 'too close to call'? :smiley:
    Not nailed on. LAB could still be big in Hartlepool.

    But IF in the tiniest remote possibility LAB has lost then it is the no 1 all time LAB worst parliamentary result of all time
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited May 2021
    Counting tonight

    Colchester
    Derby
    Dudley
    Gateshead
    Harlow
    Knowsley
    Newcastle
    Northumberland
    Nuneaton & Bedworth
    Oldham
    Redditch
    Rochdale
    Rochford
    Southend
    South Tyneside
    Stevenage
    Stockport
    Sunderland
    Thurrock

    Doncaster Mayor
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Are we likely to learn anything useful in the next two hours?

    No Scottish exit polling?

    Historic Hartlepool teetering on the brink?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    It's definitely more interesting without an exit poll. The last General Election was, oh, ho hum, that's all done then. Bit of protracted mystery here.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,780

    Sturgeon just been on film saying she was scared of dogs. If I didn’t mistrust her before, I would now.

    When you spend most of your adult life canvassing being scared of dogs comes pretty naturally.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,226
    MattW said:

    moonshine said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”?
    I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.

    He'd have been my first choice in London too.
    That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
    I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.

    Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
    It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.

    I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.

    Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.

    My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
    I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.

    I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.

    Maybe I should come and work for you?
    I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.

    There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.

    I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
    I was once given a verbal warning for innocently referring to someone as a scouser.
    “Which guy from IT came round earlier?”
    “You know Mike, the scouse guy”.

    This was 20 years ago pre wokism.
    Why would this be a problem? Even now?

    Unless the guy is trying to pretend he is a something-else, like all those actor-musicky-arty types who changed their northern accents to be southern.

    I was told by the passing HR feminazi, “how do you think he would feel if he heard you call him a scouser?”

    “Not a lot, my grandad was from liverpool and proudly called himself a scouser”.

    “Consider this a formal warning”.

    This was at a bulge bracket bank. Max is guilty of extrapolating his own experience too far.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”?
    I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.

    He'd have been my first choice in London too.
    That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary rigplace.
    I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.

    Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
    It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.

    I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.

    Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.

    My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
    I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.

    I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.

    Maybe I should come and work for you?
    I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.

    There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.

    I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.

    Casino is right. It is slowly making its way through the industries. It started in academe (of course), and is still at its worst there. Absolute carnage, esp in America

    It has now moved into the media, the arts, social media, the police, and so on.

    And Wokeness is very different to traditional PC concerns. It isn't just disdainful of contrary opinions, it does not allow them, it demands that EVERYONE publicly submits to this one narrow ideology. It is dangerous. But Lefties refuse to see that (until it comes after them, and then they realise their error, too late - eg feminists in the trans-TERF wars)
    I feel judged for not clarifying that my “chosen pronouns” are “he/his” in my email signature. It’s annoying.
    Maybe you shouldn't be such a snowflake?

    I have never put pronouns in my email signature either and I have never felt remotely judged.
    I take it from your reply that you assume I’m the sort who uses “snowflake” as an insult himself. I am not. I am the sort of person who is socially liberal but gets fed up of some of this nonsense and is driven away from my natural political home. I feel judged, because I am judged - I continually get asked to add it.

    I’m being forced to politically align with social conservatives and I don’t like it.
    What industry do you work in?
    In and around charities/public sector. It’s part of a race to be seen to be leading the curve I think - and the pressure to do such things is from senior management. I’m sure it’s well meant, but we are moving towards it being inferred that by not having such an email signature, you must be actively hostile to the LGBT+ community. Which is, of course, nonsense.
    What's intriguing to me - in the US at least - is that pretty much all the woke stuff in schools is in private establishments.

    Given annual fees are often $45k, you'd think they would want to make sure they were delivering what their well heeled parents were demanding. And I'm not 100% convinced those well heeled parents are demanding woke.
    Plenty of it in colleges & universities, both public and private. As per testimony of two friends, both flaming liberals (to my left) one a (public) community college instructor (mentioned up thread) the other a (private) university professor.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,016
    Sean_F said:


    And they're still voting Tory.

    As I said before during and after, Brexit was the remaking of politics, the end of the Thatcher-Blair era and the start of a new one. We have reshaped politics with Brexit, and now we have new parties in old places.

    The old Labour party is now the Johnsonite Tory party. Johnson's political platform is what Labour's used to be. Contrary to that, Starmer's Labour party is what the Tories used to be. The labels have changed, the politics have not.

    They're voting Tory because the Tories offer what Labour used to offer. They're rejecting Labour because they represent what the Tories used to represent.
    I don't see Labour as representing what the Conservatives used to offer.

    I think Brexit has not so much remade politics as cemented trends that began in 1979. A lot of historic Conservative seats fell in the Thatcher/Major years, and a lot of historic Labour seats moved in the opposite direction.
    You might not see them like that. A lot of former Labour voters do
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038
    kinabalu said:

    So, I voted Lib Dem. I'm now on the gin as I try and come to terms with it.

    Do I get a free pair of sandals now from OGH or @IanB2 ?

    Well done. Unbelievably bad take on Lozza from you this evening but any Tory taking a break from the habit merits a round of applause and I am in fact clapping as I type. Which few can do.
    Thanks (I think).
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    Sky breaking

    Labour saying they are 98% sure Hartlepool going conservative


    98%? That's a strange number for them to choose.
    The other 2% is Northern Independence Party. 🤣
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    Sky breaking

    Labour saying they are 98% sure Hartlepool going conservative


    98%? That's a strange number for them to choose.
    Can we get them into the betting markets....?
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 156
    What time are the first results expected to come in?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,981

    NEW THREAD

  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,302

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”?
    I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.

    He'd have been my first choice in London too.
    That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
    I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.

    Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
    It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.

    I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.

    Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.

    My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
    I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.

    I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.

    Maybe I should come and work for you?
    I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.

    There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.

    I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
    Oh God, the "it's all on Twitter" stuff again.

    This gets so tedious going through this and reexplaining it night after night.
    I think they are genuinely clueless about Woke. See Robert Smithson's remarkably dim and myopic comments about Wokery in American education.

    He thought it was confined to "just one school in New York". Jesus

    I am trying to work out why they are so blinkered. My guess it is generally just luck: they work in STEMy financey industries that attract geeks - which are so far largely unaffected by all this.

    Anyone in the arts knows how real and menacing it is. Publishing, for example. is being roiled. Writers are cancelled all over the place. Rivals use cancel culture to take down enemies. Vicious. And it is often Left-on-Left. Same in TV and movies, if not worse, I have friends at the Beeb with hair-raising stories

    They will feel different when it enters their professions, which it will eventually, if nothing changes




    It is confined to a few schools in America. You go trawling the internet looking for stuff to piss you off and you've gone deep down the woke rabbit hole. In a country of 340 million people there's going to be more than a few idiots doing stupid shit. Go trawling for it and you'll find it.

    I could, if I had the interest, go trawling for dumb religious shit that happens in America and it would massively massively outnumber the dumb woke stuff that you trawl for. It won't even be difficult at all trying to find schools in America doing stupid stuff because of religion.

    What does that prove though? Other than someone has a hobby of trawling for idiots.
    Good grief. Try this

    "The nation’s reckoning over race has reached thousands of U.S. schools, and so, too, has a conservative backlash.

    "Schools across the country are working to address systemic racism and inject an anti-racist mind-set into campus life. But where advocates see racial progress, opponents see an effort to shame White teachers and sometimes students for being part of an oppressive system."

    THOUSANDS OF SCHOOLS

    I dunno, should we listen to the education correspondent of the Washington Post, or.... "Philip Thompson on politicalbetting", who lives in Stoke on Trent and makes model aircraft

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/05/03/critical-race-theory-backlash/
    I thought you were supposed to be well travelled?

    I often say I live in the North. Only someone who has never travelled across the country or left London could think that Stoke On Trent is in the North.
    Stoke on Trent is horrible, it's north of here, and idiots like you live there

    That's more than North enough for me. It's basically Jarrow
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    I’ll try to remain courteous 😉

    Well that just won't do at all!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,860
    edited May 2021
    Sean_F said:


    And they're still voting Tory.

    As I said before during and after, Brexit was the remaking of politics, the end of the Thatcher-Blair era and the start of a new one. We have reshaped politics with Brexit, and now we have new parties in old places.

    The old Labour party is now the Johnsonite Tory party. Johnson's political platform is what Labour's used to be. Contrary to that, Starmer's Labour party is what the Tories used to be. The labels have changed, the politics have not.

    They're voting Tory because the Tories offer what Labour used to offer. They're rejecting Labour because they represent what the Tories used to represent.
    I don't see Labour as representing what the Conservatives used to offer.

    I think Brexit has not so much remade politics as cemented trends that began in 1979. A lot of historic Conservative seats fell in the Thatcher/Major years, and a lot of historic Labour seats moved in the opposite direction.
    I think this is right but I'd upgrade "cemented" to "turbocharged".

    Plus I'd give "Boris" some credit as well as Brexit. The combination is lethal in trad WWC areas.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    edited May 2021

    What time are the first results expected to come in?

    First results from Newcastle expected by 23:30 and all declared by 02:00.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,780

    I’ve been reading this site from afar for years, but this is my first post. Hello all! I’ll try to remain courteous 😉

    You may never get so many likes again!
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480

    I’ve been reading this site from afar for years, but this is my first post. Hello all! I’ll try to remain courteous 😉

    Welcome. It's a moment of high tension you've chosen here, on one of the most important British election nights on record. Many will not sleep till 6am, chanting and singing into the early hours.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243

    I’ve been reading this site from afar for years, but this is my first post. Hello all! I’ll try to remain courteous 😉

    Welcome. And keep in mind that on PB, posting trumps (in a manner of speaking) courtesy most of the time!

    So what kind of political nutjob are you, anyway? (See my point!)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038
    Sean_F said:

    WRT woke, Hertsmere is a Conservative council; my wife is HR manager there, and it just does not exist in that borough. I accept somewhere like Islington or Lambeth would probably be very different, but I don't think it's an issue outside of solidly left wing boroughs. Most boroughs are not solidly left wing.

    It's definitely better in the Shires and provinces.

    I spent four months working on Transpennine this year, based out of Leeds and York. Doesn't exist there yet. Great sense of humour along the lines of "Airplane", which was so refreshing.

    But, this stuff spreads quickly. It needs to be suffocated at source.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243
    NEW THREAD
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038
    Thought you were having a beer?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,288

    Is there no election night special on TV tonight?

    This is the one thing I watch on the BBC typically, alternating with Sky News, just gone to put it on - and the TV Guide says that the BBC tonight has a Royal Wedding thing on tonight on BBC1, with a 2009 film on BBC2.

    WTAF!? What the hell are we paying a Licence Fee for that there's no Election Night coverage on Election Night. Instead a 12 year old movie and a 10 year old repeat of a wedding.

    Sky News: Midnight 'Vote 2021'
    So someone's realised there's an election going on today.

    And people insist we have to pay the licence fee by law. So that on election night we can get a 12 year old George Clooney film and a 10 year old Royal Wedding film. Jesus H Christ, I don't want to start another BBC debate but this is ridiculous.
    perhaps the BBC don't think it's important. Something must be on BBC news24
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”?
    I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.

    He'd have been my first choice in London too.
    That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
    I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.

    Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
    It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.

    I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.

    Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.

    My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
    I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.

    I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.

    Maybe I should come and work for you?
    I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.

    There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.

    I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
    Oh God, the "it's all on Twitter" stuff again.

    This gets so tedious going through this and reexplaining it night after night.
    I think they are genuinely clueless about Woke. See Robert Smithson's remarkably dim and myopic comments about Wokery in American education.

    He thought it was confined to "just one school in New York". Jesus

    I am trying to work out why they are so blinkered. My guess it is generally just luck: they work in STEMy financey industries that attract geeks - which are so far largely unaffected by all this.

    Anyone in the arts knows how real and menacing it is. Publishing, for example. is being roiled. Writers are cancelled all over the place. Rivals use cancel culture to take down enemies. Vicious. And it is often Left-on-Left. Same in TV and movies, if not worse, I have friends at the Beeb with hair-raising stories

    They will feel different when it enters their professions, which it will eventually, if nothing changes




    I'm sceptical of what I don't see with my own eyes.

    I also know several parents of Brentwood School kids and have reached out to discover the veracity of your story. Because the reality is that I have seen literally nothing.

    Now, it's possible my children are hiding stuff from me. But I doubt it.
    https://www.lamag.com/mag-features/brentwood-school-feature/
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265

    DavidL said:

    Now being told that in some areas the voting is over 70% but the Tories think it is in areas good for them. Personally I remain to be convinced that this is encouraging for them.

    If turnout is that high then the result absolutely must be respected, whatever it is.

    Heck it must be respected either way - if you don't vote, you don't get to complain - but if it is that high then there's really no grounds to complain either way whoever loses.
    Agree. But a bit hard to reconcile reports of 70%+ with reports from both sides that Tory areas are voting most - frankly if it's 70+ then everyone is voting heavily, since it won't be over 85% anywhere (people die, move, fall ill).

    But anyway I imagine the Lab->BXP switchers were mainly in strong Labour areas.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,860
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why on Earth would anyone vote “Lozza”?
    I think we can safely ignore Leon’s attempts to pose as a sentient poster.

    He'd have been my first choice in London too.
    That's fairly disappointing tbh, CR. Lozza has become the worst kind of reactionary right wing rent-a-gob and has been courting anti-vaxxers. He goes well beyond "saying it how it is" and will hopefully come very close to last place.
    I don't agree with him on anti-vaxxers and, like Leon says, he's a bit of a dick but I do support his platform of anti-Wokeness and anti-cancel culture; I'd be buggered if I'd vote for Shaun Bailey as my first choice instead - so, it would be him.

    Thankfully for you, though, I don't live in London anymore.
    It's just completely irresponsible and whatever his other views are courting anti-vaxxers and validating them during a pandemic is not worthy of any votes.

    I also think he's a bit scatter brained, easily distracted by the latest stupidity which has made him a reactionary rather than a visionary.

    Anyway, this is London. It's the world's greatest city because people can live how they want. Wokeism simply doesn't effect my world at all, my workplace is simply immune and we've always had a policy of "if you don't like it, fuck off" which isn't going to change. My friends, family, colleagues - none of them really pay any attention to this shite, it's all "twitter nonsense" to the wider world.

    My main two concerns in London are 1 - crime and 2 - housing, I think I'm in the majority in London. Wokeism or anything like that doesn't even register.
    I wish it was just Twitter nonsense - sadly, in my industry it's not.

    I'm jealous of you. My workplace is utterly infested with it, and it's definitely affected my career. I see it every single day, and it's getting worse. My bosses are now talking about launching "campaigns" this year that "live to their values" - ie their opinions. I had yet another awkward conversation with HR today where she was being disingenuous.

    Maybe I should come and work for you?
    I have also never witnessed any workspace woke stuff, or much woke stuff anywhere at all really despite living among the lesbian yoghurt-knitters of Hackney.

    There’s a lot on Twitter, but that’s full of all sorts of shit.

    I find it bizarre that it seems to be blighting you.
    Oh God, the "it's all on Twitter" stuff again.

    This gets so tedious going through this and reexplaining it night after night.
    I think they are genuinely clueless about Woke. See Robert Smithson's remarkably dim and myopic comments about Wokery in American education.

    He thought it was confined to "just one school in New York". Jesus

    I am trying to work out why they are so blinkered. My guess it is generally just luck: they work in STEMy financey industries that attract geeks - which are so far largely unaffected by all this.

    Anyone in the arts knows how real and menacing it is. Publishing, for example. is being roiled. Writers are cancelled all over the place. Rivals use cancel culture to take down enemies. Vicious. And it is often Left-on-Left. Same in TV and movies, if not worse, I have friends at the Beeb with hair-raising stories

    They will feel different when it enters their professions, which it will eventually, if nothing changes




    It is confined to a few schools in America. You go trawling the internet looking for stuff to piss you off and you've gone deep down the woke rabbit hole. In a country of 340 million people there's going to be more than a few idiots doing stupid shit. Go trawling for it and you'll find it.

    I could, if I had the interest, go trawling for dumb religious shit that happens in America and it would massively massively outnumber the dumb woke stuff that you trawl for. It won't even be difficult at all trying to find schools in America doing stupid stuff because of religion.

    What does that prove though? Other than someone has a hobby of trawling for idiots.
    Good grief. Try this

    "The nation’s reckoning over race has reached thousands of U.S. schools, and so, too, has a conservative backlash.

    "Schools across the country are working to address systemic racism and inject an anti-racist mind-set into campus life. But where advocates see racial progress, opponents see an effort to shame White teachers and sometimes students for being part of an oppressive system."

    THOUSANDS OF SCHOOLS

    I dunno, should we listen to the education correspondent of the Washington Post, or.... "Philip Thompson on politicalbetting", who lives in Stoke on Trent and makes model aircraft

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/05/03/critical-race-theory-backlash/
    There’s always a conservative backlash against things that are worth doing. No conservative backlash means either nothing much is happening or what's happening is nothing much.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,336
    edited May 2021

    Is there no election night special on TV tonight?

    This is the one thing I watch on the BBC typically, alternating with Sky News, just gone to put it on - and the TV Guide says that the BBC tonight has a Royal Wedding thing on tonight on BBC1, with a 2009 film on BBC2.

    WTAF!? What the hell are we paying a Licence Fee for that there's no Election Night coverage on Election Night. Instead a 12 year old movie and a 10 year old repeat of a wedding.

    Sky News: Midnight 'Vote 2021'
    So someone's realised there's an election going on today.

    And people insist we have to pay the licence fee by law. So that on election night we can get a 12 year old George Clooney film and a 10 year old Royal Wedding film. Jesus H Christ, I don't want to start another BBC debate but this is ridiculous.
    I'm sure there will be coverage on BBC News 24 of the Hartlepool result when it comes through. I think the rest start being counted and analysed tomorrow?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,860

    felix said:

    Sky breaking

    Labour saying they are 98% sure Hartlepool going conservative

    I'm wavering a little more now - should we say 'too close to call'? :smiley:
    Not nailed on. LAB could still be big in Hartlepool.

    But IF in the tiniest remote possibility LAB has lost then it is the no 1 all time LAB worst parliamentary result of all time
    lol
  • AberjeffreyAberjeffrey Posts: 20
    kle4 said:

    I’ll try to remain courteous 😉

    Well that just won't do at all!

    I’ve been reading this site from afar for years, but this is my first post. Hello all! I’ll try to remain courteous 😉

    Welcome. And keep in mind that on PB, posting trumps (in a manner of speaking) courtesy most of the time!

    So what kind of political nutjob are you, anyway? (See my point!)
    Thanks for all the welcomes! Getting used to quoting and posting so may well mess this up. I could well be one of those staying up tonight - I’ve taken tomorrow off. Let’s say I go strongly against the grain in my South Wales constituency 😉
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    Polls close. Brace.

    Right, dish the dirt now Jonathan - as promised.

    What do you think?
    No dirt, but some comments as a Labour member.

    The Labour Party appears to be irrevocably, terminally split.
    Starmer is actually doing a good job holding things together, things are far worse than they appear.
    Keeping the lights on is taking all Starmers energy.

    I believe Starmer made a political mistake personally getting involved with the corruption story. He should have delegated the attack and risen above it. Party splits make that tricky.

    The story was toxic for Labour as it was an old fashioned Westminster centric story and the electorate are not best pleased with Westminster post Brexit. He tarnished himself.

    This one was always going to be hard due to vaccines. Starmer might have found a cause outside of Westminster, looking ahead and made it the centre. The end of furlough, NHS 1% pay rise or tax rises. Anything that came from the insights into the electorate.

    I fear Starmer may not yet be a political animal with antennae tuned to the electorate. He is set up right now as a perfect reforming Labour Home Secretary, but not yet the street fighter leader Labour needs to claw back.

    The coming storm will test him and see if he can make the leap.



  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    If Andy Burnham is the answer, you are asking the wrong question.

    The question is who is King of the North
    Bugzy Malone
    Ralph Percy
    I think he's the owner of a few tourist attractions?
    Their family nickname was Kings In The North

    https://www.abebooks.co.uk/Kings-North-House-Percy-British-History/30619840903/bd?cm_mmc=ggl-_-UK_Shopp_Tradestandard-_-product_id=COUK9780297818601USED-_-keyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxLWKnvm18AIVzbTtCh2v_g3PEAQYAyABEgI9QvD_BwE
    I know but I was just bantering, assuming he was your best mate or something
    Don’t know him, but I am friendly with Algernon.
  • Who is this clown doing the newspaper review on BBC news? “A fully fledged corbynista”. The brain capacity of a lobster from a nuclear sewage outfall.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    edited May 2021
    Watching Sky, I'm loving Tim Montgomerie's Tudorbethan backdrop.

    Does he live in a semi in Surbiton? Or is it real?


  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620
    @Casino_Royale and I voted for the same party today.

    Funny old world.
  • DavidL said:

    Sturgeon just been on film saying she was scared of dogs. If I didn’t mistrust her before, I would now.

    When you spend most of your adult life canvassing being scared of dogs comes pretty naturally.
    I did and never once had a problem. Not once.
  • Sean_F said:


    And they're still voting Tory.

    As I said before during and after, Brexit was the remaking of politics, the end of the Thatcher-Blair era and the start of a new one. We have reshaped politics with Brexit, and now we have new parties in old places.

    The old Labour party is now the Johnsonite Tory party. Johnson's political platform is what Labour's used to be. Contrary to that, Starmer's Labour party is what the Tories used to be. The labels have changed, the politics have not.

    They're voting Tory because the Tories offer what Labour used to offer. They're rejecting Labour because they represent what the Tories used to represent.
    I don't see Labour as representing what the Conservatives used to offer.

    I think Brexit has not so much remade politics as cemented trends that began in 1979. A lot of historic Conservative seats fell in the Thatcher/Major years, and a lot of historic Labour seats moved in the opposite direction.
    You might not see them like that. A lot of former Labour voters do
    Yep. A party that actively despises the working class and its priorities.
This discussion has been closed.