In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
Work the hours you’re paid for? You aren’t a charity, they should pay you overtime or hours for extra holiday etc
Yes but I’m realistic. Long hours for little pay are expected of someone early in their legal career, but I cant imagine a law firm would intentionally open themselves up to an unlawful deduction from wages claim unless the calculation is that it’s worth the liability.
My initial thoughts are to just keep good records going forwards with the understanding I’ve agreed to make this sacrifice and be thankful i’m in the financial position to make such a sacrifice...
Good plan. Work your bollocks off, make an impression, record it all vs your contract.
Then either you will progress making this an amusing anecdote told from your chateau in years to come or move somewhere else having made an impression as a hard worker who gets things done.
Agree with the general advice but suggest it is worth raising pay after about six months (assuming it is going well) and are able to demonstrate your value better. Don't always wait for them to raise it.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
Work the hours you’re paid for? You aren’t a charity, they should pay you overtime or hours for extra holiday etc
Yes but I’m realistic. Long hours for little pay are expected of someone early in their legal career, but I cant imagine a law firm would intentionally open themselves up to an unlawful deduction from wages claim unless the calculation is that it’s worth the liability.
My initial thoughts are to just keep good records going forwards with the understanding I’ve agreed to make this sacrifice and be thankful i’m in the financial position to make such a sacrifice...
Good plan. Work your bollocks off, make an impression, record it all vs your contract.
Then either you will progress making this an amusing anecdote told from your chateau in years to come or move somewhere else having made an impression as a hard worker who gets things done.
If the employer can’t get the legal basics right, it’s not a well run business and you have to question what opportunities it truly offers the hard working employee.
That is true. But every month is experience in the bank. Not 100% sure making such a stand is the right move at this stage of his career. But yes, if he wants to leave he should leave and find another job. If he can.
If you download the NHS app, no not the covid one - the other one it lists EVERY single medical visit you've ever had right down to glue ear when I was 6 !
Only thing I think is missing is my MMR which I had in school.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Very sound advice.
And extremely commonly done across a range of professions.
It is one of the sifting methods used by the professions (including my own) as a way of restricting social mobility. Not everyone can afford to work for a pittance in order to curry favour with the big boss, in the expectation of rewards down the line. Middle class people can afford to do so, and it keeps the hoi polloi out.
Especially with internships which are very low paid or have no pay at all, at least if you get an average salary for 35 hours a week, you still have that even with limited overtime pay
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
I'm afraid that a bunch of professions have a similar thing. I have a bunch of friends in regional Big 4 teams who will work below, often far below, NMW for 6+ months a year. The potential cost of getting caught is merely seen as a risk of doing business.
You've got to work out whether the name on the CV is worth being abused for 1-4 years. Bringing this up *will* get the offer rescinded.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Very sound advice.
And extremely commonly done across a range of professions.
It is one of the sifting methods used by the professions (including my own) as a way of restricting social mobility. Not everyone can afford to work for a pittance in order to curry favour with the big boss, in the expectation of rewards down the line. Middle class people can afford to do so, and it keeps the hoi polloi out.
Oh no! I have gone full Tory.
I suspect you are right, but it is what I would do to give someone from my own little unit a leg up. But no, it isn't particularly meritocratic.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
That’s offensive.
How many people know what the national minimum wage was 20 years ago without checking?
Trying to do a "I worked 72 hours a day for half a shilling and I like it" act when you were earning 187% of the minimum wage on a base salary in the 90s that would still have been above the national average 20 years later is pretty out of touch.
How could anyone have been unaware the an annual salary of 27k in the 90s (with a five figure bonus!) was not a big wedge?
Patrick O'Flynn @oflynnsocial · 27m Boris taking issue now with that bloke the other week who said vaccines were not a significant factor in falling Covid rates.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
LOL - That's ~ £50k in today's money depending on how late in the 90s this was.
Probably closer to £40-45k
And then halve it to adjust for the hours worked.
Using the Bank of England inflation calculator £27 in 1995 would be £53.08 in 2020.
@Gallowgate - I think it’s always good to start with a positive attitude and hopefully it will count for something in the future.
If you had joined the civil service, well, then I’d be advising you to claim back your hours. I learnt the hard way when I started in the service. Working all hours on a major project to clean up someone else’s mess counts for nothing. Indeed, the service prides itself on NOT rewarding hard work and commitment.
I’ve had something like seven weeks off in the last five months. It’s the price the service has to pay for not treating its workers with respect.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
Work the hours you’re paid for? You aren’t a charity, they should pay you overtime or hours for extra holiday etc
Yes but I’m realistic. Long hours for little pay are expected of someone early in their legal career, but I cant imagine a law firm would intentionally open themselves up to an unlawful deduction from wages claim unless the calculation is that it’s worth the liability.
My initial thoughts are to just keep good records going forwards with the understanding I’ve agreed to make this sacrifice and be thankful i’m in the financial position to make such a sacrifice...
Good plan. Work your bollocks off, make an impression, record it all vs your contract.
Then either you will progress making this an amusing anecdote told from your chateau in years to come or move somewhere else having made an impression as a hard worker who gets things done.
If the employer can’t get the legal basics right, it’s not a well run business and you have to question what opportunities it truly offers the hard working employee.
That is true. But every month is experience in the bank. Not 100% sure making such a stand is the right move at this stage of his career. But yes, if he wants to leave he should leave and find another job. If he can.
Working long hours , wagging your tail like a puppy and hoping for love is a high risk strategy in some firms. In the end you just waste precious time. Eyes open and and be prepared to move. There are some truly shit employers out there.
The best thing you can do for your career is to work for someone who treats you well, gives you opportunities and is prepared to invest time and money in you.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Very sound advice.
And extremely commonly done across a range of professions.
It is one of the sifting methods used by the professions (including my own) as a way of restricting social mobility. Not everyone can afford to work for a pittance in order to curry favour with the big boss, in the expectation of rewards down the line. Middle class people can afford to do so, and it keeps the hoi polloi out.
Oh no! I have gone full Tory.
I suspect you are right, but it is what I would do to give someone from my own little unit a leg up. But no, it isn't particularly meritocratic.
The Faculty of Advocates has an extreme version of this problem. During your deviling (pupillage in England) you are not paid for a year. So we are a freely open meritocratic organisation open to anyone of ability who can afford to work for a year without getting paid. In fairness, our current Dean has worked hard to develop a series of grants to improve access but historically this has had a profound impact on the nature of our membership.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
Work the hours you’re paid for? You aren’t a charity, they should pay you overtime or hours for extra holiday etc
Yes but I’m realistic. Long hours for little pay are expected of someone early in their legal career, but I cant imagine a law firm would intentionally open themselves up to an unlawful deduction from wages claim unless the calculation is that it’s worth the liability.
My initial thoughts are to just keep good records going forwards with the understanding I’ve agreed to make this sacrifice and be thankful i’m in the financial position to make such a sacrifice...
Good plan. Work your bollocks off, make an impression, record it all vs your contract.
Then either you will progress making this an amusing anecdote told from your chateau in years to come or move somewhere else having made an impression as a hard worker who gets things done.
Agree with the general advice but suggest it is worth raising pay after about six months (assuming it is going well) and are able to demonstrate your value better. Don't always wait for them to raise it.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
In today’s money that is well above NMW.
Not really - it’s probably about £10per hour
At least over 10% higher which, depending on your frame of reference, is quite significant.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
My first job in 1982 paid £3,000 per year. No bonus.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
LOL - That's ~ £50k in today's money depending on how late in the 90s this was.
Probably closer to £40-45k
And then halve it to adjust for the hours worked.
My first job after school before I went to University in 1978 paid £23 a week. It was an excellent investment though because my wife gets a laugh about me working in a DIY shop to this day.
My first job was working behind the till at a cheesemonger. Paid £140 per week.
Who is pushing a policy, and who is opposing them doing it, matters.
It annoys many radicals, but you can get a lot more radical things done if you dial it down a notch, as your ideas seem moderate.
A mixture of radical and moderate is best. People like change, but only if it is not too much of it.
How do you dial down birther claims a notch? Many thought Obama radical and feared him because of who he is and represents, not what he did.
That's why I said who is pushing things matters. Obama could not avoid being labelled radical by many because they were doing so for totally irrational partisan reasons. Fewer people think as irrationally about Biden so he can, if he wants, be more radical without pushback.
The dial down a notch refers to people on ones own side who want to be revolutionary but put people off in their fervour. It happens on the right too with extreme tax plans and the like - someone normal seeming presenting things makes proposals seem less radical.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
LOL - That's ~ £50k in today's money depending on how late in the 90s this was.
Probably closer to £40-45k
And then halve it to adjust for the hours worked.
My first job after school before I went to University in 1978 paid £23 a week. It was an excellent investment though because my wife gets a laugh about me working in a DIY shop to this day.
My first job was working behind the till at a cheesemonger. Paid £140 per week.
I see where we're heading with this discussion line...
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
That’s offensive.
How many people know what the national minimum wage was 20 years ago without checking?
Those who were getting paid it 20 years ago would have had a vague idea. It stuck in my head, first job like first kiss is things people tend to remember.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
I'm afraid that a bunch of professions have a similar thing. I have a bunch of friends in regional Big 4 teams who will work below, often far below, NMW for 6+ months a year. The potential cost of getting caught is merely seen as a risk of doing business.
You've got to work out whether the name on the CV is worth being abused for 1-4 years. Bringing this up *will* get the offer rescinded.
I think it's best to look at it purely introspectively rather than on a fairness basis - do you think it's worthwhile (good on CV, interesting in itself, brings in something at least) or not? If the first, which it sounds like, then go for it, and then murmur gently in 6 months when you get a review and they tell you you're doing well. If you raise it now, after accepting but before starting work, your bargaining position will be weak and as you say the offer might even be withdrawn. Getting that initial work experience is critically important in the trajectory of your career.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Very sound advice.
And extremely commonly done across a range of professions.
It is one of the sifting methods used by the professions (including my own) as a way of restricting social mobility. Not everyone can afford to work for a pittance in order to curry favour with the big boss, in the expectation of rewards down the line. Middle class people can afford to do so, and it keeps the hoi polloi out.
Oh no! I have gone full Tory.
I suspect you are right, but it is what I would do to give someone from my own little unit a leg up. But no, it isn't particularly meritocratic.
The Faculty of Advocates has an extreme version of this problem. During your deviling (pupillage in England) you are not paid for a year. So we are a freely open meritocratic organisation open to anyone of ability who can afford to work for a year without getting paid. In fairness, our current Dean has worked hard to develop a series of grants to improve access but historically this has had a profound impact on the nature of our membership.
Pupils in England I believe now have to be paid the minimum wage at criminal sets at least, commercial sets by contrast commonly pay their pupils over £50,000
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
I suppose I don't really understand why a solution couldn't be found whereby the interior design bill could be spread over two more years. It was £58,000, so would have been paid off in two years of legitimate Cabinet office payments.
Is it £30k pa or a one-off £30k with a new incumbent?
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
"As for Boris Johnson’s loose tongue, one thing I have learned over 40 years in journalism is never pay much attention to what people say. Watch what they do."
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
That’s offensive.
How many people know what the national minimum wage was 20 years ago without checking?
Trying to do a "I worked 72 hours a day for half a shilling and I like it" act when you were earning 187% of the minimum wage on a base salary in the 90s that would still have been above the national average 20 years later is pretty out of touch.
How could anyone have been unaware the an annual salary of 27k in the 90s (with a five figure bonus!) was not a big wedge?
It was well paid in absolute terms and less well paid in hourly terms.
I took today’s NMW and adjusted back for inflation forgetting that it had - for political reasons - been introduced at a derisory rate
I am a realist and I do have the benefit of maturity and a certain level of focus that brings. I also have a good understanding of what is expected of me.
However I must admit it does leave a little bad taste in my mouth. I hope I can put it out of my mind.
At the end of the day it is a very good opportunity and will look very good on my CV, and I quite frankly have zero bargaining power.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
That’s offensive.
How many people know what the national minimum wage was 20 years ago without checking?
Those who were getting paid it 20 years ago would have had a vague idea. It stuck in my head, first job like first kiss is things people tend to remember.
Yep, I was working in the Student Union Entertainments department at the time, we all got a raise from £2 to £3.60
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Very sound advice.
And extremely commonly done across a range of professions.
It is one of the sifting methods used by the professions (including my own) as a way of restricting social mobility. Not everyone can afford to work for a pittance in order to curry favour with the big boss, in the expectation of rewards down the line. Middle class people can afford to do so, and it keeps the hoi polloi out.
Oh no! I have gone full Tory.
I suspect you are right, but it is what I would do to give someone from my own little unit a leg up. But no, it isn't particularly meritocratic.
The Faculty of Advocates has an extreme version of this problem. During your deviling (pupillage in England) you are not paid for a year. So we are a freely open meritocratic organisation open to anyone of ability who can afford to work for a year without getting paid. In fairness, our current Dean has worked hard to develop a series of grants to improve access but historically this has had a profound impact on the nature of our membership.
At my foundation I’ve insisted on paying interns at the same starting rate as new full time employees for exactly that reason. If someone is going to work full time they should be paid for their time & effort
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
LOL - That's ~ £50k in today's money depending on how late in the 90s this was.
Probably closer to £40-45k
And then halve it to adjust for the hours worked.
My first job after school before I went to University in 1978 paid £23 a week. It was an excellent investment though because my wife gets a laugh about me working in a DIY shop to this day.
My first job was working behind the till at a cheesemonger. Paid £140 per week.
I have a suspicion that the cheesemonger was within Fortnum and Mason.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
LOL - That's ~ £50k in today's money depending on how late in the 90s this was.
Probably closer to £40-45k
And then halve it to adjust for the hours worked.
My first job after school before I went to University in 1978 paid £23 a week. It was an excellent investment though because my wife gets a laugh about me working in a DIY shop to this day.
My first job was working behind the till at a cheesemonger. Paid £140 per week.
The discrepancy does remind you that there used to be something called inflation. Whatever happened to it?
In 1983 I started as a trainee solicitor at £3800 a year which after a month went up to the giddy heights of £4,000 which, given the hours we worked, probably worked out about £1.40 an hour. I didn't feel particularly exploited, it was just the system, but fairly rapidly I was putting my annual salary through in fees each week. The profit margins were just mind blowing for professionals in those days.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
You are not a Duke or a billionaire but still probably the poshest PB poster
Who is pushing a policy, and who is opposing them doing it, matters.
It annoys many radicals, but you can get a lot more radical things done if you dial it down a notch, as your ideas seem moderate.
A mixture of radical and moderate is best. People like change, but only if it is not too much of it.
Absolutely. As an MP I was entirely open about my far-left background and to some extent continuing views. But I was always polite and friendly regardless of whom I was talking to (basically I just like people), and I used to get active support from people who were normally thoroughly conservative. They appreciated the manner and didn't really care whether the railways were nationalised or whatever. Lots of people aren't as political as we might wish.
But I also agree that you need to reform selectively. If you give people the impression that you want to change everything they are understandably and probably rightly nervous. Even positive stuff (free broadband for example) can look too wild to be comfortable with.
I am a realist and I do have the benefit of maturity and a certain level of focus that brings. I also have a good understanding of what is expected of me.
However I must admit it does leave a little bad taste in my mouth. I hope I can put it out of my mind.
At the end of the day it is a very good opportunity and will look very good on my CV, and I quite frankly have zero bargaining power.
Just remember they are more lucky to have you than you them. Stand tall, do a good job, bank the experience and if your prepared to to trade a lower salary for that experience in the short term, do that consciously for a limited period only. Bookmark six months.
Once you’ve proved your worth, if they haven’t offered you a raise already, negotiate and look elsewhere.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
That’s offensive.
How many people know what the national minimum wage was 20 years ago without checking?
Those who were getting paid it 20 years ago would have had a vague idea. It stuck in my head, first job like first kiss is things people tend to remember.
Fair point - that why I remember my starting salary. But my objection was to the claim that I was “outstandingly out of touch” rather than “wrong”.
I am a realist and I do have the benefit of maturity and a certain level of focus that brings. I also have a good understanding of what is expected of me.
However I must admit it does leave a little bad taste in my mouth. I hope I can put it out of my mind.
At the end of the day it is a very good opportunity and will look very good on my CV, and I quite frankly have zero bargaining power.
Just remember they are more lucky to have you than you them. Stand tall, do a good job, bank the experience and if your prepared to to trade a lower salary for that experience in the short term, do that consciously for a limited period only. Bookmark six months.
Once you’ve proved your worth, if they haven’t offered you a raise already, negotiate and look elsewhere.
When I accepted the offer I did make my intentions clear that I expected a salary review in 6 months, so we’ll see how it goes!
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
You are not a Duke or a billionaire but still probably the poshest PB poster
I still double take when people start speculating about what kind of king Charles will be.
I am a realist and I do have the benefit of maturity and a certain level of focus that brings. I also have a good understanding of what is expected of me.
However I must admit it does leave a little bad taste in my mouth. I hope I can put it out of my mind.
At the end of the day it is a very good opportunity and will look very good on my CV, and I quite frankly have zero bargaining power.
Just remember they are more lucky to have you than you them. Stand tall, do a good job, bank the experience and if your prepared to to trade a lower salary for that experience in the short term, do that consciously for a limited period only. Bookmark six months.
Once you’ve proved your worth, if they haven’t offered you a raise already, negotiate and look elsewhere.
And check you're grammar. Or you'll be out on you're ear.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
So what. Politicians in double standards shock. The same politicians who refused to accept the result of the Brexit vote were demanding Trump accept the result of the US election. Politicians are hypocrites. People aren’t blind.
Can’t you find something edgy and pithy from Marina Hyde to post now ?
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
LOL - That's ~ £50k in today's money depending on how late in the 90s this was.
Probably closer to £40-45k
And then halve it to adjust for the hours worked.
My first job after school before I went to University in 1978 paid £23 a week. It was an excellent investment though because my wife gets a laugh about me working in a DIY shop to this day.
My first job was working behind the till at a cheesemonger. Paid £140 per week.
I have a suspicion that the cheesemonger was within Fortnum and Mason.
😂
Paxton & Whitfield so just down the road from Fortnums...
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
You are not a Duke or a billionaire but still probably the poshest PB poster
Nah, I think that's Dura Ace - I get a disowned scion of a Duke vibe.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
You are not a Duke or a billionaire but still probably the poshest PB poster
I’m rather glad to be neither a Duke or a billionaire to be honest!
Well I, for one, am stunned that a political opponent would make such a statement,
I’m sure people up and down the country are hanging on her every word and are waiting for her next proclamation on the matter which I’m sure will be equally thoughtful and considered.
To be fair I’ve been fairly surprised over the last few years how reliant on cliche many of our politicians are.
“He’s like that bad man over there” seems to be the best that many of them can do
Oborne had previously written The Rise of Political Lying, covering the Major and Blair governments. Boris and Trump go far beyond that low standard.
Absolutely nobody can go lower than Blair
Oborne also defended Corbyn and I think EdM on the grounds that they were honest. I'm afraid that the obverse of general cynicism about politics is that people shrug off lying (as a Boris fan did here yesterday) and discount honesty.
Now that’s a really good question. Why indeed and I suspect that line of attack has some mileage. Many of us, if we can’t afford something, have to go without.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
Work the hours you’re paid for? You aren’t a charity, they should pay you overtime or hours for extra holiday etc
Yes but I’m realistic. Long hours for little pay are expected of someone early in their legal career, but I cant imagine a law firm would intentionally open themselves up to an unlawful deduction from wages claim unless the calculation is that it’s worth the liability.
My initial thoughts are to just keep good records going forwards with the understanding I’ve agreed to make this sacrifice and be thankful i’m in the financial position to make such a sacrifice...
Good plan. Work your bollocks off, make an impression, record it all vs your contract.
Then either you will progress making this an amusing anecdote told from your chateau in years to come or move somewhere else having made an impression as a hard worker who gets things done.
If the employer can’t get the legal basics right, it’s not a well run business and you have to question what opportunities it truly offers the hard working employee.
That is true. But every month is experience in the bank. Not 100% sure making such a stand is the right move at this stage of his career. But yes, if he wants to leave he should leave and find another job. If he can.
Working long hours , wagging your tail like a puppy and hoping for love is a high risk strategy in some firms. In the end you just waste precious time. Eyes open and and be prepared to move. There are some truly shit employers out there.
The best thing you can do for your career is to work for someone who treats you well, gives you opportunities and is prepared to invest time and money in you.
Not paying the NMW is a bad sign IMO.
This is very true, you've got to be hard headed. In my first post-PhD job, one of the profs (contracted to NHS rather than the uni) took me to one side and told me to look for another job. He said he'd been trying and failing to get me a position at the next grade up (both within the uni, which wasn't research intensive and was sceptical of our ability to bring in research funding to pay for ourselves, and within the NHS where he worked, which was unwilling to pay for another research position in addition to his own). He told me I'd be a fool to wait around for the university to pay me properly and should look elsewhere. I did - and looking back it was definitely the right thing to do - I've since collaborated with my old boss on a project as equal partners and I'm now at the same grade as he is. Had I stayed, my potental for progression would have been far less.
He wasn't forced to resign over an "undeclared loan".
He was forced to resign over "mortgage fraud".
Slightly different issue. A surprise you can't tell the difference, even without noticing that the deadline for declarations doesn't seem to have passed yet. 🤔
Now that’s a really good question. Why indeed and I suspect that line of attack has some mileage. Many of us, if we can’t afford something, have to go without.
This might be the first time you've ever complimented one of my posts, welcome to the party, it is only downhill from here
I am a realist and I do have the benefit of maturity and a certain level of focus that brings. I also have a good understanding of what is expected of me.
However I must admit it does leave a little bad taste in my mouth. I hope I can put it out of my mind.
At the end of the day it is a very good opportunity and will look very good on my CV, and I quite frankly have zero bargaining power.
Just remember they are more lucky to have you than you them. Stand tall, do a good job, bank the experience and if your prepared to to trade a lower salary for that experience in the short term, do that consciously for a limited period only. Bookmark six months.
Once you’ve proved your worth, if they haven’t offered you a raise already, negotiate and look elsewhere.
When I accepted the offer I did make my intentions clear that I expected a salary review in 6 months, so we’ll see how it goes!
Sounds like you’ve been astute. One thing to sniff out when you’re there is when the firm does it’s budgeting. There will be moments when it’s better to ask for a raise than others.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
You are not a Duke or a billionaire but still probably the poshest PB poster
I’m rather glad to be neither a Duke or a billionaire to be honest!
My first "job" was weekend/holiday dogsbody in a workshop that prepared rally cars which paid 5 quid/day cash in hand when I started in 1983 age 16. At age 17 I (very badly) welded up a cage in an RS2000 that competed in the 1984 Lombard-RAC. If it had rolled both occupants would have been killed instantly. I did learn a lot about the car game though. Mostly how to rip off the unsuspecting customer.
The issue was mortgage fraud. He didn’t declare it when he borrowed money from Britannia Building Society
I know that you keep posting this. It isn't true. He resigned having breached the ministerial code in not declaring the loan. Blair tried to pretend he hadn't broken the code (like Johnson did with Patel) but having slept on it Mandy accepted he had. "Mortgage fraud" is not a resignation offence for minsters, trousering undeclared monies is.
So what. Politicians in double standards shock. The same politicians who refused to accept the result of the Brexit vote were demanding Trump accept the result of the US election. Politicians are hypocrites. People aren’t blind.
Can’t you find something edgy and pithy from Marina Hyde to post now ?
It’s a problem for Labour. People can remember Labour sleaze so are less likely to care. In the mid-90s, I reckon people genuinely believed New Labour would be different.
It’s bit of a shame for Starmer, as I think he and a lot of his front bench would probably be pretty sound in this regard. But Blair et al have poisoned the well.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
You are not a Duke or a billionaire but still probably the poshest PB poster
I still double take when people start speculating about what kind of king Charles will be.
Our Charles went to Eton of course, HRH Charles only went to Gordonstoun
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
Adorable.
Yes and I'm Bill Gates
Bill, I need my house decorating on behalf of the nation. I can't afford it, but the wife is insistent. You have some spare, and won't even notice, and if you want, I can big up one of your charitable foundations to my friends, go on!
So what. Politicians in double standards shock. The same politicians who refused to accept the result of the Brexit vote were demanding Trump accept the result of the US election. Politicians are hypocrites. People aren’t blind.
Can’t you find something edgy and pithy from Marina Hyde to post now ?
There is something fundamentally wrong when the man who wrote the forward to the ministerial code refuses to be bound by it. If you are accepting of government with no standards or proprietry thats your lookout, the rest of us want the transparency and honesty promised by Boris Johnson in that forward.
So what. Politicians in double standards shock. The same politicians who refused to accept the result of the Brexit vote were demanding Trump accept the result of the US election. Politicians are hypocrites. People aren’t blind.
Can’t you find something edgy and pithy from Marina Hyde to post now ?
It’s a problem for Labour. People can remember Labour sleaze so are less likely to care. In the mid-90s, I reckon people genuinely believed New Labour would be different.
It’s bit of a shame for Starmer, as I think he and a lot of his front bench would probably be pretty sound in this regard. But Blair et al have poisoned the well.
Didn't Rayner make an expenses claim for Airpods she wasn't using for Zoom calls literally a few months ago?
Well I, for one, am stunned that a political opponent would make such a statement,
I’m sure people up and down the country are hanging on her every word and are waiting for her next proclamation on the matter which I’m sure will be equally thoughtful and considered.
To be fair I’ve been fairly surprised over the last few years how reliant on cliche many of our politicians are.
“He’s like that bad man over there” seems to be the best that many of them can do
Oborne had previously written The Rise of Political Lying, covering the Major and Blair governments. Boris and Trump go far beyond that low standard.
Absolutely nobody can go lower than Blair
Nor Campbell yet we regularly get them trotted out by the media to present their thoughts on the matters of the day and treated with a degree of reverence. Its staggering. Mind you the guardian fawned over Dubya simply as he criticised Trump so there clearly is no standards of any worth in our media.
I think its an outrage to mention standards and journalism in the same breath.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Very sound advice.
And extremely commonly done across a range of professions.
It is one of the sifting methods used by the professions (including my own) as a way of restricting social mobility. Not everyone can afford to work for a pittance in order to curry favour with the big boss, in the expectation of rewards down the line. Middle class people can afford to do so, and it keeps the hoi polloi out.
Oh no! I have gone full Tory.
I suspect you are right, but it is what I would do to give someone from my own little unit a leg up. But no, it isn't particularly meritocratic.
The Faculty of Advocates has an extreme version of this problem. During your deviling (pupillage in England) you are not paid for a year. So we are a freely open meritocratic organisation open to anyone of ability who can afford to work for a year without getting paid. In fairness, our current Dean has worked hard to develop a series of grants to improve access but historically this has had a profound impact on the nature of our membership.
Pupils in England I believe now have to be paid the minimum wage at criminal sets at least, commercial sets by contrast commonly pay their pupils over £50,000
Wow. They must surely be generating fees for that. Our devils don't. They get free access to a very extensive training course which is of an internationally recognised standard, they get the time and attention of their devil masters, they get introduced to courts and instructing solicitors and they get a chance to see how the job is done. Some devil masters get them to draft material that they will then revise but I tended to get them to do stuff I had already done and we would then go over the respective efforts and discuss what might have been done differently etc. That, in fairness, is what my devil master did with me. When your devil travels with you you are responsible for their travel costs, food and accommodation.
The members of Faculty are very generous with their time on a "pass it on" basis but the lack of income remains a barrier to those from poorer backgrounds, there is no doubt about it.
I've commented a couple of times recently, not exactly in defence of Johnson, but in saying that the Dyson affair was fluff and that "bodies piled high" dedpended very much on context, but may well be defensible.
On the flat payments, I'm less sure. One of the defences being put forward here seems to be that Johnson doesn't own the flat, so where's the scandal? But if a donor offered services in kind, say the use of a luxury holiday apartment, we might ask questions about what the donor was getting in return, even though the recipient would not own the thing given. Johnson will benefit from use of the upgraded flat. From what I've seen of the planned changes, there's no tangible improvement for whoever comes next if they have taste This one has the potential to be, at least, quite embarassing.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
You are not a Duke or a billionaire but still probably the poshest PB poster
I’m rather glad to be neither a Duke or a billionaire to be honest!
That's definitely what a posh person would say!
Though theyd explain that it's because their Uncle Bertram Fossington-Smyth-Dimbleby-Beauchamp married into a billionaire family to save the manor and it went awfully sour.
Reminds me of the opening to the book I'm reading, an excellent read about The Popes by John Julius Norwich , explaining hes met two popes, one because he was dogs body to the Duke of Norfolk at a coronation, and another as his dad was ambassador in Paris and met the papal nuncio who later became Pope.
So what. Politicians in double standards shock. The same politicians who refused to accept the result of the Brexit vote were demanding Trump accept the result of the US election. Politicians are hypocrites. People aren’t blind.
Can’t you find something edgy and pithy from Marina Hyde to post now ?
It’s a problem for Labour. People can remember Labour sleaze so are less likely to care. In the mid-90s, I reckon people genuinely believed New Labour would be different.
It’s bit of a shame for Starmer, as I think he and a lot of his front bench would probably be pretty sound in this regard. But Blair et al have poisoned the well.
Didn't Rayner make an expenses claim for Airpods she wasn't using for Zoom calls literally a few months ago?
Wasn't the outrage that they were "personalised" (engraved) which anyone with any Apple products knows, is free.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
I'm afraid that a bunch of professions have a similar thing. I have a bunch of friends in regional Big 4 teams who will work below, often far below, NMW for 6+ months a year. The potential cost of getting caught is merely seen as a risk of doing business.
You've got to work out whether the name on the CV is worth being abused for 1-4 years. Bringing this up *will* get the offer rescinded.
It is the problem when the government tries to force employers to pay more than their marginal productivity.
Either employers just don't employ that many young people, as in many continental European countries, or they employ them, but get around it, as here. Our way is better, though of course the best thing would be to let the labour market work properly by scrapping this particular regulation.
So what. Politicians in double standards shock. The same politicians who refused to accept the result of the Brexit vote were demanding Trump accept the result of the US election. Politicians are hypocrites. People aren’t blind.
Can’t you find something edgy and pithy from Marina Hyde to post now ?
It’s a problem for Labour. People can remember Labour sleaze so are less likely to care. In the mid-90s, I reckon people genuinely believed New Labour would be different.
It’s bit of a shame for Starmer, as I think he and a lot of his front bench would probably be pretty sound in this regard. But Blair et al have poisoned the well.
Didn't Rayner make an expenses claim for Airpods she wasn't using for Zoom calls literally a few months ago?
I don’t think that made the TV news (my threshold for what i consider for cut-through). Not great, but I don’t think it’s the crime of the century.
I see Boris apologists have moved on from yesterday’s insistence that there is no issue because Boris got the money from Tory HQ.
Well I’m not an apologist and have not voted Tory in my life but I am failing to see anything of any substance here merely opponents throwing as much mud as possible in the hope some sticks. There may be something to it but at the moment there isn’t. Like the Dyson story and other stories they are pretty much non events. Labour equating the Dyson call with 90s Tory sleaze is absurd.
Tory sleaze of the 90s was pretty mild compared to this.
None of these events in isolation - with the possible exception of "bodies piled high" are enough to sink Liar. But pile them all up and the smell eventually permeates even the most corked-up nostrils.
The decorations thing is straightforward - in not declaring a loan the PM broke the ministerial code and in any other time would have to resign. So the issue is less about what brand of wallpaper NutNut used and more about the collapse in standards and propriety at the heart of government.
From what I see on social media people get proper het up about their money being "wasted" and under the table agreements when its a Labour council, yet apply the exact opposite standards when its a Tory mayor or Tory government. Double standards may be easy to live with for partisan hypocrites but normal punters eventually take notice and say "hang on".
The rot has set in. It gets you in the end. What has been most striking about this episode is how Tory supporters are totally fine with it and have repeatedly gone on the record saying so.
The judgment will be made on the 6th May across the UK
And then conclusions may be drawn
I know that you’re spinning that line for all it’s worth but it’s total bullshit.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
You are not a Duke or a billionaire but still probably the poshest PB poster
I still double take when people start speculating about what kind of king Charles will be.
A compassionate one, if we're talking about PB's Charles.
He's far too humble to talk about the good work his family's philanthropic and charitable work do, of which IIRC Charles plays a role in.
He wasn't forced to resign over an "undeclared loan".
He was forced to resign over "mortgage fraud".
Slightly different issue. A surprise you can't tell the difference, even without noticing that the deadline for declarations doesn't seem to have passed yet. 🤔
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
LOL - That's ~ £50k in today's money depending on how late in the 90s this was.
Probably closer to £40-45k
And then halve it to adjust for the hours worked.
My first job after school before I went to University in 1978 paid £23 a week. It was an excellent investment though because my wife gets a laugh about me working in a DIY shop to this day.
My first job was working behind the till at a cheesemonger. Paid £140 per week.
I have a suspicion that the cheesemonger was within Fortnum and Mason.
😂
Paxton & Whitfield so just down the road from Fortnums...
LOL.
Many years ago I went to buy some cheese from there and took the exquisitely wrapped paper bags (was it you!?) with me when I went along to the cinema round the corner on Haymarket. I was sitting there watching the film when it was obvious that someone near me had f*rted. Disgusting smell and I was busy giving them the evil eye when I realised that the bag of cheese was between my feet and smelled revolting. I exited rapidly.
I've commented a couple of times recently, not exactly in defence of Johnson, but in saying that the Dyson affair was fluff and that "bodies piled high" dedpended very much on context, but may well be defensible.
On the flat payments, I'm less sure. One of the defences being put forward here seems to be that Johnson doesn't own the flat, so where's the scandal? But if a donor offered services in kind, say the use of a luxury holiday apartment, we might ask questions about what the donor was getting in return, even though the recipient would not own the thing given. Johnson will benefit from use of the upgraded flat. From what I've seen of the planned changes, there's no tangible improvement for whoever comes next if they have taste This one has the potential to be, at least, quite embarassing.
The simplest way to determine if this is bad, is to pretend it was Keir Starmer in Downing Street.
Would the Tories be calling this out, absolutely they would. And rightfully so, it's all we would hear here day after day.
He wasn't forced to resign over an "undeclared loan".
He was forced to resign over "mortgage fraud".
Slightly different issue. A surprise you can't tell the difference, even without noticing that the deadline for declarations doesn't seem to have passed yet. 🤔
And the voters of Hartlepool didn't care
Indeed, and a lot of these things just don’t cut through or interest people. It’s an obsession of political hacks and nerds.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
LOL - That's ~ £50k in today's money depending on how late in the 90s this was.
Probably closer to £40-45k
And then halve it to adjust for the hours worked.
My first job after school before I went to University in 1978 paid £23 a week. It was an excellent investment though because my wife gets a laugh about me working in a DIY shop to this day.
My first job in my gap year 1978/79 was in a menswear shop for £27 a week (42.5 hours). I was a lousy salesman but I am very thorough with a vacuum cleaner and good at folding clothes.
So what. Politicians in double standards shock. The same politicians who refused to accept the result of the Brexit vote were demanding Trump accept the result of the US election. Politicians are hypocrites. People aren’t blind.
Can’t you find something edgy and pithy from Marina Hyde to post now ?
It’s a problem for Labour. People can remember Labour sleaze so are less likely to care. In the mid-90s, I reckon people genuinely believed New Labour would be different.
It’s bit of a shame for Starmer, as I think he and a lot of his front bench would probably be pretty sound in this regard. But Blair et al have poisoned the well.
Didn't Rayner make an expenses claim for Airpods she wasn't using for Zoom calls literally a few months ago?
I don’t think that made the TV news (my threshold for what i consider for cut-through). Not great, but I don’t think it’s the crime of the century.
No it wasn’t, another nothing story to be honest. But that is how politicians are now, she dishes it out, she has to take it back. Same with the rest whatever their side of the divide.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
Do nothing. Keep your head down and focus on doing a fantastic job, which you will, and make sure you get noticed.
If they're a good firm you'll eventually get an opportunity for a training contract.
Btw, this is what salaried work is like, as opposed to wage-based work: you get paid monthly in arrears for your skills and your hours can go all over the place (up and down) but you're not paid by the hour. A good employer will offer flexitime or time off in lieu for very long hours. Rest assured, as you get more experienced you'll find you can do the right stuff faster and quicker and you'll be able to build a good career just working from 8.30-6pm.
I suppose I don't really understand why a solution couldn't be found whereby the interior design bill could be spread over two more years. It was £58,000, so would have been paid off in two years of legitimate Cabinet office payments.
Is it £30k pa or a one-off £30k with a new incumbent?
I suspect its £30k pa but spent at internal (very high) rates...
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
My first job in 1982 paid £3,000 per year. No bonus.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
You are not a Duke or a billionaire but still probably the poshest PB poster
I’m rather glad to be neither a Duke or a billionaire to be honest!
You can keep your Dukedom, but I have a Duchess who could spend your billions in a heartbeat, so the cash might come in handy.
P.S. I might be able to afford broadband that worked too!
He wasn't forced to resign over an "undeclared loan".
He was forced to resign over "mortgage fraud".
Slightly different issue. A surprise you can't tell the difference, even without noticing that the deadline for declarations doesn't seem to have passed yet. 🤔
Charles and yourself continuing with revisionist history. Mandy resigned due to not having declared the loan *as a minister*, not because of his arrangements with Britannia Building society.
In his own words, with my emphasis:
"As I said publicly yesterday, I do not believe that I have done anything wrong or improper. But I should not, with all candour, have entered into the arrangement. I should, having done so, told you and other colleagues whose advice I value. And I should have told my permanent secretary on learning of the inquiry into Geoffrey Robinson, although I had entirely stood aside from this.
I am sorry about this situation. But we came to power promising to uphold the highest possible standards in public life. We have not just to do so, but we must be seen to do so."
I've commented a couple of times recently, not exactly in defence of Johnson, but in saying that the Dyson affair was fluff and that "bodies piled high" dedpended very much on context, but may well be defensible.
On the flat payments, I'm less sure. One of the defences being put forward here seems to be that Johnson doesn't own the flat, so where's the scandal? But if a donor offered services in kind, say the use of a luxury holiday apartment, we might ask questions about what the donor was getting in return, even though the recipient would not own the thing given. Johnson will benefit from use of the upgraded flat. From what I've seen of the planned changes, there's no tangible improvement for whoever comes next if they have taste This one has the potential to be, at least, quite embarassing.
The simplest way to determine if this is bad, is to pretend it was Keir Starmer in Downing Street.
Would the Tories be calling this out, absolutely they would. And rightfully so, it's all we would hear here day after day.
So yes, it's bad.
And if it were KS in Downing Street you would be defending him to the hilt over this fluff-and-nonsense also.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
You are not a Duke or a billionaire but still probably the poshest PB poster
I’m rather glad to be neither a Duke or a billionaire to be honest!
That's definitely what a posh person would say!
Though theyd explain that it's because their Uncle Bertram Fossington-Smyth-Dimbleby-Beauchamp married into a billionaire family to save the manor and it went awfully sour.
Reminds me of the opening to the book I'm reading, an excellent read about The Popes by John Julius Norwich , explaining hes met two popes, one because he was dogs body to the Duke of Norfolk at a coronation, and another as his dad was ambassador in Paris and met the papal nuncio who later became Pope.
Is it like a Macnab? A pope, a cardinal and a papal nuncio...
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
Astoundingly out of touch. The minimum wage in 1999 was £3.60
I would be extremely concerned if Charles was ever 'in touch', he is probably the most upper class poster on here
Nah I’m just a middle class professional like millions of others
You are not a Duke or a billionaire but still probably the poshest PB poster
I've commented a couple of times recently, not exactly in defence of Johnson, but in saying that the Dyson affair was fluff and that "bodies piled high" dedpended very much on context, but may well be defensible.
On the flat payments, I'm less sure. One of the defences being put forward here seems to be that Johnson doesn't own the flat, so where's the scandal? But if a donor offered services in kind, say the use of a luxury holiday apartment, we might ask questions about what the donor was getting in return, even though the recipient would not own the thing given. Johnson will benefit from use of the upgraded flat. From what I've seen of the planned changes, there's no tangible improvement for whoever comes next if they have taste This one has the potential to be, at least, quite embarassing.
The simplest way to determine if this is bad, is to pretend it was Keir Starmer in Downing Street.
Would the Tories be calling this out, absolutely they would. And rightfully so, it's all we would hear here day after day.
So yes, it's bad.
If a Labour person did this, flogging round the fleet would be to soft a punishment.🤣🤣🤣🤣... but to pretend Keir Starmer was in Downing Street is too much of a stretch....
“@sailorrooscout This is wonderful! Real-world data out of the UK shows delaying the second dose of Pfizer’s or AstraZeneca’s vaccine to 12 weeks DOES NOT compromise effectiveness!
In addition, there were NO significant declines in antibody levels in ALL adults (including the elderly) during the 10-12 week interval between the first and second dose.”
Oh and my first job was in McDonalds in Wembley with me, I noticed a couple of weeks afterwards, as the only white guy working there out of around 40 staff. Don't cancel me for noticing; this was over 30 years ago.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
LOL - That's ~ £50k in today's money depending on how late in the 90s this was.
Probably closer to £40-45k
And then halve it to adjust for the hours worked.
My first job after school before I went to University in 1978 paid £23 a week. It was an excellent investment though because my wife gets a laugh about me working in a DIY shop to this day.
My first job was working behind the till at a cheesemonger. Paid £140 per week.
The discrepancy does remind you that there used to be something called inflation. Whatever happened to it?
In 1983 I started as a trainee solicitor at £3800 a year which after a month went up to the giddy heights of £4,000 which, given the hours we worked, probably worked out about £1.40 an hour. I didn't feel particularly exploited, it was just the system, but fairly rapidly I was putting my annual salary through in fees each week. The profit margins were just mind blowing for professionals in those days.
On the fees/pay discrepancy, I worked at the Patent Office for a time, first job out of uni in early 2000s, about £20k per year (although that was more or less a training contract and you could get up to £40k within five years or so). But one of their wheezes at the time was to bring money in through commercial search, i.e. doing the kind of thing patent attorneys will do, surveillance of what other companies are doing, looking at whether your idea has been done before you craft the patent application. But it was agreed that they mustn't undercut patent attorneys. So there I was, working for £20k while billing £200/hour or so to the customer.
In my new job, I’ve just worked out that if I work more than 40 hours per week, which I presume will be most weeks, I’m going to be getting paid less than the NMW.
What do I do? Nothing?
I’ve already accepted and are quite frankly willing to work for the low number as a chance to prove my worth and get a foot in the door. However do I inform them of this glaring potential liability?
I dont want to risk having the offer withdrawn.
Perhaps I can use this in 6 months to help justify a case for a raise, but I don’t want it to come across like a threat.
Thoughts?
You don’t raise it
Presumably you are contracted for 35 hours pw plus occasionally more? In which case they are fine.
Thinking of it like a foot in the door. And if they don’t resolve if once you have proved yourself then you move elsewhere
Presumably they are ‘fine’ only if my real hours don’t end up being 50-60 hours every week, which is what I am expecting.
But you’re right that I think that is the best strategy.
Thank you.
I’ve spent my entire career working 35+ occasionally extra
My peak was 100+ hours a week. My average about 70 hours. Even now as a partner I work 50-60 hours a week. Of course I’m compensated for it, but taking a legal approach will be messy, hard to prove and would destroy your career regardless of whether you win or lose
Yes, but for less than NMW ?
My first job in the 1990s I was paid £27,000 per year + bonus. Assuming an 80 hour work week that’s 4,000 hours a year so about £6.75 per hour in salary (I think my bonus was about £11,000 from memory).
A long time ago - and pre NMW - but probably not too far off what it would have been.
LOL - That's ~ £50k in today's money depending on how late in the 90s this was.
Probably closer to £40-45k
And then halve it to adjust for the hours worked.
My first job after school before I went to University in 1978 paid £23 a week. It was an excellent investment though because my wife gets a laugh about me working in a DIY shop to this day.
My first job in my gap year 1978/79 was in a menswear shop for £27 a week (42.5 hours). I was a lousy salesman but I am very thorough with a vacuum cleaner and good at folding clothes.
Quite incredibly I sometimes got involved in helping people design their kitchens. It wasn't that hard using graph paper but I would try to work out what the best combination of units etc for them was with restrictions on power points, gas supply and the like. It was an eye opener in some ways about just how astonishingly innumerate so many people are. They would look at you like it was some kind of magic.
Comments
Only thing I think is missing is my MMR which I had in school.
It annoys many radicals, but you can get a lot more radical things done if you dial it down a notch, as your ideas seem moderate.
A mixture of radical and moderate is best. People like change, but only if it is not too much of it.
You've got to work out whether the name on the CV is worth being abused for 1-4 years. Bringing this up *will* get the offer rescinded.
I suspect you are right, but it is what I would do to give someone from my own little unit a leg up. But no, it isn't particularly meritocratic.
How could anyone have been unaware the an annual salary of 27k in the 90s (with a five figure bonus!) was not a big wedge?
@oflynnsocial
·
27m
Boris taking issue now with that bloke the other week who said vaccines were not a significant factor in falling Covid rates.
See: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator
If you had joined the civil service, well, then I’d be advising you to claim back your hours. I learnt the hard way when I started in the service. Working all hours on a major project to clean up someone else’s mess counts for nothing. Indeed, the service prides itself on NOT rewarding hard work and commitment.
I’ve had something like seven weeks off in the last five months. It’s the price the service has to pay for not treating its workers with respect.
The best thing you can do for your career is to work for someone who treats you well, gives you opportunities and is prepared to invest time and money in you.
Not paying the NMW is a bad sign IMO.
In 1983 it went up to £3,500. No bonus.
That was still top end for an Articled Clerk.
The dial down a notch refers to people on ones own side who want to be revolutionary but put people off in their fervour. It happens on the right too with extreme tax plans and the like - someone normal seeming presenting things makes proposals seem less radical.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/04/27/europe-frighteningly-close-another-covid-blunder/
AEP's summary of the covid situation across EU. Bleak. Failure to vaccinate but reopening in many places anyway.
I took today’s NMW and adjusted back for inflation forgetting that it had - for political reasons - been introduced at a derisory rate
I am a realist and I do have the benefit of maturity and a certain level of focus that brings. I also have a good understanding of what is expected of me.
However I must admit it does leave a little bad taste in my mouth. I hope I can put it out of my mind.
At the end of the day it is a very good opportunity and will look very good on my CV, and I quite frankly have zero bargaining power.
In 1983 I started as a trainee solicitor at £3800 a year which after a month went up to the giddy heights of £4,000 which, given the hours we worked, probably worked out about £1.40 an hour. I didn't feel particularly exploited, it was just the system, but fairly rapidly I was putting my annual salary through in fees each week. The profit margins were just mind blowing for professionals in those days.
But I also agree that you need to reform selectively. If you give people the impression that you want to change everything they are understandably and probably rightly nervous. Even positive stuff (free broadband for example) can look too wild to be comfortable with.
Once you’ve proved your worth, if they haven’t offered you a raise already, negotiate and look elsewhere.
So why do it then?
Can’t you find something edgy and pithy from Marina Hyde to post now ?
Paxton & Whitfield so just down the road from Fortnums...
I cant even imagine working 80 hours a week. I got up to 52. Once.
He was forced to resign over "mortgage fraud".
Slightly different issue. A surprise you can't tell the difference, even without noticing that the deadline for declarations doesn't seem to have passed yet. 🤔
If he's less of a twat than Len then that will be an improvement, what do we know about this guy? Anyone?
It’s bit of a shame for Starmer, as I think he and a lot of his front bench would probably be pretty sound in this regard. But Blair et al have poisoned the well.
The members of Faculty are very generous with their time on a "pass it on" basis but the lack of income remains a barrier to those from poorer backgrounds, there is no doubt about it.
On the flat payments, I'm less sure. One of the defences being put forward here seems to be that Johnson doesn't own the flat, so where's the scandal? But if a donor offered services in kind, say the use of a luxury holiday apartment, we might ask questions about what the donor was getting in return, even though the recipient would not own the thing given. Johnson will benefit from use of the upgraded flat. From what I've seen of the planned changes, there's no tangible improvement for whoever comes next if they have taste
Reminds me of the opening to the book I'm reading, an excellent read about The Popes by John Julius Norwich , explaining hes met two popes, one because he was dogs body to the Duke of Norfolk at a coronation, and another as his dad was ambassador in Paris and met the papal nuncio who later became Pope.
Either employers just don't employ that many young people, as in many continental European countries, or they employ them, but get around it, as here. Our way is better, though of course the best thing would be to let the labour market work properly by scrapping this particular regulation.
He's far too humble to talk about the good work his family's philanthropic and charitable work do, of which IIRC Charles plays a role in.
Many years ago I went to buy some cheese from there and took the exquisitely wrapped paper bags (was it you!?) with me when I went along to the cinema round the corner on Haymarket. I was sitting there watching the film when it was obvious that someone near me had f*rted. Disgusting smell and I was busy giving them the evil eye when I realised that the bag of cheese was between my feet and smelled revolting. I exited rapidly.
Would the Tories be calling this out, absolutely they would. And rightfully so, it's all we would hear here day after day.
So yes, it's bad.
If they're a good firm you'll eventually get an opportunity for a training contract.
Btw, this is what salaried work is like, as opposed to wage-based work: you get paid monthly in arrears for your skills and your hours can go all over the place (up and down) but you're not paid by the hour. A good employer will offer flexitime or time off in lieu for very long hours. Rest assured, as you get more experienced you'll find you can do the right stuff faster and quicker and you'll be able to build a good career just working from 8.30-6pm.
https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/1387321573741416449
Idea for a TV show: like Brewster's Millions but Gordon Brown has to spend £58,000 on cushions for the Downing St flat.
P.S. I might be able to afford broadband that worked too!
In his own words, with my emphasis:
"As I said publicly yesterday, I do not believe that I have done anything wrong or improper. But I should not, with all candour, have entered into the arrangement. I should, having done so, told you and other colleagues whose advice I value. And I should have told my permanent secretary on learning of the inquiry into Geoffrey Robinson, although I had entirely stood aside from this.
I am sorry about this situation. But we came to power promising to uphold the highest possible standards in public life. We have not just to do so, but we must be seen to do so."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/1998/dec/24/labour.labour1997to991
This is wonderful! Real-world data out of the UK shows delaying the second dose of Pfizer’s or AstraZeneca’s vaccine to 12 weeks DOES NOT compromise effectiveness!
In addition, there were NO significant declines in antibody levels in ALL adults (including the elderly) during the 10-12 week interval between the first and second dose.”
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.22.21255911v1.full.pdf
https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1387165472735604738
I didn't stay very long