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Johnny Mercer has given so much ammunition to critics of Boris Johnson – politicalbetting.com

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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350
    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    Not at all. Think A1 and A7 crossings, Carlisle and Berwick, and rainy weather. Not to mention Coldstream/Cornhill.
    Why bother of you can't drink in them? Last time I checked pubs and restaurants can't serve booze indoors until May 17th, the same day as England and Wales.
    Yes it is just bullshit, who will be desperate to drive to Scotland to get a burger and Coke.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873
    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    Not at all. Think A1 and A7 crossings, Carlisle and Berwick, and rainy weather. Not to mention Coldstream/Cornhill.
    Why bother of you can't drink in them? Last time I checked pubs and restaurants can't serve booze indoors until May 17th, the same day as England and Wales.
    J20. Lovely stuff.
  • lloydy said:

    Stocky said:

    impartial said:

    Had an interesting zoom with a friend who until very recently worked in Number 10. Been there since Blair years in a junior post. I asked her about the various PMs . She said the working environment changed with each one. Under Blair - relaxed. Brown - austere. Coalition/Cameron - friendly kind. May - cold. Boris - chaotic fearful.

    Boris - chaotic fearful: yes, but it doesn't have to be this way with the size of his majority. Why are they so weak and rudderless? Is this what comes from a lack of principle?
    Boris sounds a bit like Jim Hacker from this. I wonder whether he's been house trained by Sir Humphrey.
    Boris Johnson has always been disorganised, as a columnist for The Telegraph, editor of The Spectator, and Mayor of London he had people who could cover for him.

    As PM, during a pandemic being disorganised is disastrous as people do not have the power to cover for him.

    Which is why he kept on making the same mistake on delaying the lockdowns.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,448
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    Publicans in Gretna rubbing their hands. Cue grumble from Ms Cyclefree.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350

    Looking at the most recent polling for Holyrood I am of the opinion, that the Scottish electorate are being very ‘cannie’ if the polls are to be believed.

    It does seem that Salmond is ‘persona non grata’ in Scotland, indeed he is polling worse than Boris, and the electorate look as if they are to indulge in a substantial tactical vote on the list to ensure their second vote goes to green and thereby denies Salmond a place at the table in Holyrood.

    At the same time, the Scots like Sturgeon’s brand and are willing to grant her another term, but also are beginning to show signs that they are not as in favour of Independence as the SNP would have you believe, hence todays poll showing No ahead of Yes 48/44

    Nicola is far to good a politician to prejudice her legacy by going ‘gung-ho’ on indyref2 and. as she likes power, will use covid to delay indyref 2 as it is not the time

    As the next SNP Holyrood administration has to face the day to day job of health, education and a host of other subjects, neglected by the obsession with indyref2, Nicola will have all her work cut out just to keep the SNP popularity onside and I expect indyref2 will be parked until or unless there is a clear majority in Scotland for it.

    Now many will have their own opinion, but this is my view leading up to Holyrood 2021

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1385123806390456322?s=19

    If parties pledged to independence with it clearly in their manifesto get re-elected that IS a clear majority for it. Democracy isn't based on opinion polls, it is based on elections.

    You will need to be ready to explain why democracy doesn't really count unless you vote for the thing you believe in. And we all know that you are the arrange marriage to Boris Johnson as Prince Akeem, you believe in whatever he believes in. But you are very good at hopping on one leg whilst barking like a dog, so thats ok.
    The colonialists on here want to pretend the SNP is the only independence party and only people who vote SNP are wanting independence. Reality is totally secondary and democracy does not enter into it at all. They just want to keep their colony.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited April 2021

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    You really don't know anything about football.

    No way anyone in the EPL or English football wants Rangers and Celtic in the PL

    Which two clubs are going to make way for them, as the PL doesn't have the scope in the calendar for a 22 club PL.
    You don’t understand. BORIS HAS SAVED FOOTBALL.

    He really has. It’s not just drunken crackheads like me. It us being reported widely across Europe. His interventions destroyed the Superleague

    Regional leagues as we discussed last night are the way to save European leagues, without any of this grotesque Superleague ‘closed shop’ bollocks. The British Premiership is already being discussed.

    ‘A new British Super League is reportedly in the works with Celtic and Rangers to join a reformed 18-team Premier League’

    Win win win for Boris. Also for football. A Franco-German league would be amazing. PSG v Bayern

    https://twitter.com/talksport/status/1384996995295764481?s=21
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    This is a great idea. Not sure if those in Scotland would feel the same? If he were to do that then he might as well make it a Great Britain league system. I would include NI but the travel requirements would make it difficult.

    It would be quite a task. I'm sure the countries would want to ensure that they could still compete internationally as separate countries. UEFA and FIFA would I'm sure be fine with that. It would also give any Welsh or Scottish club the opportunity through the pyramid to get to the very top of the game.

    I agree it would be great to see some match-ups such as Liverpool-Celtic that this could bring. It also opens up the opportunity for some cold nights in Aberdeen as well as Stoke!
  • Leon said:

    BORIS IS ALLAH. BORIS SAVED FOOTBALL

    🚨⚽️ | NEW: The six Premier League clubs who were in the Super League were “stunned by the speed and force of the prime minister’s reaction”

    Via @thetimes

    There's an assumption that the promised "fan-led review" of football will be a non-event. But I wonder.

    I've noted before of Johnson that, when Mayor, he did have a significant success in improving cycle lane infrastructure, which happened because he gave the job to someone (Gilligan) who ended up being determined and capable.

    That's the pattern that he repeated with the Vaccine Taskforce.

    The review into football is an opportunity to do this again. Has anyone been given the job of organising it?
    Tracey Crouch
  • Blimey.

    A WOMAN barrister who cried rape in a plot to frame her lover after she discovered he was married has been given a life sentence.

    Oxford lawyer Anisah Ahmed set up an ‘evil’ campaign of lies, falsely claiming she was raped as well as staging her own kidnapping and stabbing, a judge heard this morning.

    The twisted plot began in 2014 when qualified barrister Ahmed, of Wilkins Road, Cowley, found out her lover, fellow barrister Iqbal Mohammed, was married.

    Sitting at Oxford Crown Court, Judge Michael Gledhill QC said: "It appears that Ahmed had no idea that Mohammed was married.

    “When she found out, she felt utterly betrayed and took her revenge by putting into effect a comprehensive and orchestrated plan to destroy him – both professionally and personally."

    The court heard how the sophisticated campaign of ruin began when the 33-year-old barrister sent intimate messages of their affair to the victim's wife and his colleagues, before emailing his Head of Chambers demanding an investigation into his integrity.

    Her scorn then took a more sinister turn when she created fake emails to support her false claims which made it look like they were sent by the victim threatening her, amounting to ‘blackmail’.

    The victim Mr Mohammed was publicly arrested at his barrister chambers before he was taken to a police station and locked in a cell for seven hours, the judge heard.

    After Mr Mohammed’s chambers instructed IT experts to search the chambers' computers, they discovered that the email evidence had been falsified and police arrested Ahmed for harassment.

    She later admitted that she had created the fake emails but persisted in the lie that Mohammed was still harassing her.

    When it was decided to prosecute Ahmed for harassment, far from stopping her campaign of destruction - she escalated it.


    https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/19245483.oxford-lawyer-given-life-sentence-falsely-claiming-raped/?ref=twtrec
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,991

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    You really don't know anything about football.

    No way anyone in the EPL or English football wants Rangers and Celtic in the PL

    Which two clubs are going to make way for them, as the PL doesn't have the scope in the calendar for a 22 club PL.
    Surely it would be a sacrifice worth making to see the Rangers support doing a tour of English football grounds and cities?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    But Mark Drakeford is God in Wales.

    I think he could heal the lepers just by looking at them.

    Good news for the lepers, if they don't have to rely on NHS Wales.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350
    algarkirk said:

    Looking at the most recent polling for Holyrood I am of the opinion, that the Scottish electorate are being very ‘cannie’ if the polls are to be believed.

    It does seem that Salmond is ‘persona non grata’ in Scotland, indeed he is polling worse than Boris, and the electorate look as if they are to indulge in a substantial tactical vote on the list to ensure their second vote goes to green and thereby denies Salmond a place at the table in Holyrood.

    At the same time, the Scots like Sturgeon’s brand and are willing to grant her another term, but also are beginning to show signs that they are not as in favour of Independence as the SNP would have you believe, hence todays poll showing No ahead of Yes 48/44

    Nicola is far to good a politician to prejudice her legacy by going ‘gung-ho’ on indyref2 and. as she likes power, will use covid to delay indyref 2 as it is not the time

    As the next SNP Holyrood administration has to face the day to day job of health, education and a host of other subjects, neglected by the obsession with indyref2, Nicola will have all her work cut out just to keep the SNP popularity onside and I expect indyref2 will be parked until or unless there is a clear majority in Scotland for it.

    Now many will have their own opinion, but this is my view leading up to Holyrood 2021

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1385123806390456322?s=19

    The position which best balances the interests of UK, E and W and Scotland is for independence always to be a lawful option, for never enough people to really want it, and for parties sympathetic to putting Scotland first/independence to do well in Scotland.

    It has lots of downsides, including the chance that it will make Labour unelectable for some time, and permanently having annoying people overpopulating Scotland with political rubbish. Plus the outside chance that Scotland in a fit of lunacy would actually go for independence. But now the devolution Danegeld has been paid it's the best we can do.

    It is also deluded mince that Salmond is persona non grata, despite the combined efforts of Sturgeon , the state propaganda unit and other media outlets and newspapers. Very telling that most of the other party leader's conversations are all about Salmond. Sturgeon for sure is bricking it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    But under her rules you can't drink indoors anyway. You'd be going all that way to sit in a pub and have an orange juice.
    Ah, but the Scottish climate is famously suitable for sitting outside of an evening to have a drink isn't it? Isn't it?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,920

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Boris might end up the prime minister that:

    Saved Brexit
    Saved the Union
    Saved Football


    That’s probably enough to put him in the top rank of PMs since WW2?

    Could be. Politics is not a competition assessed by any objective means, like honesty and truthfulness. All politicians all the time use a weird form of language unrelated to normality to hide the more Socratic sorts of truth. (Boris uses far more normal language than most. It is part of his genius).

    The Peter Obornes and Guardians are missing the point. To be and stay at the top is to be judged by voters alone, and their judgements are formed by the standards of our day, and voters decide what they are - just like football supporters decide what counts as a proper football competition.

    Having said that, when Boris's wheels come off it will be spectacular.
    Marched out of No 10 in handcuffs?
    Actually more likely Carrie, flanked by Allegra, flouncing out plus baby and suitcases. When the Press is outside expecting a statement.
    What is the kremlinology around the sudden un-personning and demotion of Allegra? Is it as mundane as Michael Gove realising it is more convenient for HMG to "guide" lobby journalists off the record than lie to the nation on prime time television?
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    You really don't know anything about football.

    No way anyone in the EPL or English football wants Rangers and Celtic in the PL

    Which two clubs are going to make way for them, as the PL doesn't have the scope in the calendar for a 22 club PL.
    You don’t understand. BORIS HAS SAVED FOOTBALL.

    He really has. It’s not just drunken crackheads like me. It us being reported widely across Europe. His interventions destroyed the Superleague

    Regional leagues as we discussed last night are the way to save European leagues, without any of this grotesque Superleague ‘closed shop’ bollocks. The British Premiership is already being discussed.

    ‘A new British Super League is reportedly in the works with Celtic and Rangers to join a reformed 18-team Premier League’

    Win win win for Boris. Also for football. A Franco-German league would be amazing. PSG v Bayern

    https://twitter.com/talksport/status/1384996995295764481?s=21
    Not going to happen, the EPL project is based on selling a family friendly product/experience, the Old Firm aren't conducive to that.

    Not so long ago a peaceful Old Firm derby was when police didn't have to open multiple murder inquiries.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    edited April 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    Publicans in Gretna rubbing their hands. Cue grumble from Ms Cyclefree.
    Literally not at all, Scotland has got smaller outdoor group sizes, more complicated rules about it and they can't serve booze indoors and there's all sorts of curfews. The rules in England and Wales are much more straightforwards and England has, supposedly, got a final end date of June 21st, only NI has committed to something similar. Scotland and Wales don't currently have any end date to social distancing or group size limitations.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052

    I find it incredible how widely opinion can swing on here in a few months.

    Go back a few months and it was about Johnson going in 2022, into the sunset. Now he’s going to be PM forever.

    I think beyond the vaccines he’s done a truly terrible job but I can’t help but respect his ability to win things and also to somehow come back from the dead.

    Of course the Government’s popularity sank into the floor very quickly and I am sure it will again. It’s just whether Johnson can continue to overcome gravity again. And all bets are off, I don’t have a clue.

    Anyone predicting a Johnson 10 year premiership is probably as justified as anyone predicting a one minute one. We don’t know.

    All true but that'll never stop people speculating, whether because this a betting site and that's what betting is, or because, like me, it's just fun to do so.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    Not at all. Think A1 and A7 crossings, Carlisle and Berwick, and rainy weather. Not to mention Coldstream/Cornhill.
    It’s almost as though there should be a British timetable for reopening...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,801
    Are these new polls weighted or unweighted?
  • Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    You really don't know anything about football.

    No way anyone in the EPL or English football wants Rangers and Celtic in the PL

    Which two clubs are going to make way for them, as the PL doesn't have the scope in the calendar for a 22 club PL.
    Surely it would be a sacrifice worth making to see the Rangers support doing a tour of English football grounds and cities?
    God no, I'd go up to Scotland and campaign for the SNP to stop it happening.

    It is still a bloody mystery to me that Scotland can simultaneously produce fans of the Old Firm and the Tartan Army.

    I really hope at least some of the Tartan Army are allowed into the England v. Scotland Euros match.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    You really don't know anything about football.

    No way anyone in the EPL or English football wants Rangers and Celtic in the PL

    Which two clubs are going to make way for them, as the PL doesn't have the scope in the calendar for a 22 club PL.
    Surely it would be a sacrifice worth making to see the Rangers support doing a tour of English football grounds and cities?
    A new Blitz
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,421
    Quincel said:

    Leon said:

    BORIS IS ALLAH. BORIS SAVED FOOTBALL

    🚨⚽️ | NEW: The six Premier League clubs who were in the Super League were “stunned by the speed and force of the prime minister’s reaction”

    Via @thetimes

    There's an assumption that the promised "fan-led review" of football will be a non-event. But I wonder.

    I've noted before of Johnson that, when Mayor, he did have a significant success in improving cycle lane infrastructure, which happened because he gave the job to someone (Gilligan) who ended up being determined and capable.

    That's the pattern that he repeated with the Vaccine Taskforce.

    The review into football is an opportunity to do this again. Has anyone been given the job of organising it?
    Tracey Crouch, I believe.

    https://twitter.com/tracey_crouch/status/1384189645408280577
    Was she the one who resigned from May's government to force earlier action on FOBTs?

    I think a non-politician would have fit the pattern more closely, but she has the determination.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,535
    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    Not at all. Think A1 and A7 crossings, Carlisle and Berwick, and rainy weather. Not to mention Coldstream/Cornhill.
    Cross the border at Kershope Burn, pop into Newcastleton for a quick one, home again. More chance of seeing a red squirrel than a member of the SNP, you will hardly meet a vehicle and you never leave Tory held territory. God's own country.

    Once you have done that a couple of times you will see why borders people don't want 28 customs posts at the 28 road crossings between England and Scotland.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿New Holyrood List VI

    SNP 38 (-2)
    Conservative 23 (+2)
    Labour 17 (-1)
    Green 7 (-2)
    LD 5 (-1)
    Other 8 (+2)

    16-20 April
    Savanta ComRes
    (chg from 2-7 April)

    Where’s this leave us?

    Looks as though the Tory rise is pretty consistent across Britain - we've had polls from Wales, West Midlands and Scotland all bearing out the national polls. Labour may be holding up in Wales but Sarwar doesn't seem to breaking through for Scottish Labour despite his succes d'estime in the commentariat. On those figures, IndyRef looks stalled and an SNP overall majority quite unlikely. Odd of ComRes not to spell out the Others - if that's mostly Alba, Salmond will get a chunk of seats, but if they're only on 3-4 then the yield will probably be 0-1.
    I disagree to the extent that those numbers might still give the SNP a majority in Holyrood, certainly with Green support. But if they fall short of 50% Boris will be entitled to refuse a s30 application.
    Rubbish David, it is down to Independence supporting MSP's elected. Typical unionist to always have a crappy way to try and get out of being democratic. The SNP does not equal independence, it is only a part of it. SNP will only go for independence if ALBA get a decent amount of seats and push it. Sturgeon is interested only in herself and will continue to just mouth platitudes till she sets up her next cushy number, assuming she survives all the court cases.
    I maybe didn't make that clear Malcolm. My view, FWIW, is that if SNP +Greens +Alba exceed 50% then the majority of Scots will have voted for a second referendum and that should be respected. If Tories + Labour + Lib Dems exceed 50% then they haven't whether there is a majority in the toon cooncil or not.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    BORIS IS ALLAH. BORIS SAVED FOOTBALL

    🚨⚽️ | NEW: The six Premier League clubs who were in the Super League were “stunned by the speed and force of the prime minister’s reaction”

    Via @thetimes

    Like me, they found it amazing that the Prime Minister would involve himself in this irrelevant non-story.
    I read in the Times that football generates £10bn a year in exports for Britain.

    Where's your reference for that? I've seen £1.1bn for broadcast exports, whch is not even a rounding error in a £2trn economy.

    https://assets.ey.com/content/dam/ey-sites/ey-com/pt_br/topics/ey-economic-advisory-/ey-premier-league-economic-and-social-impact-january-2019.pdf

    And there is a more important principle here, which is that governments do not know better than business what is good for business.

    And his figure for fishing should have been in the past tense.
  • lloydylloydy Posts: 36

    lloydy said:

    Stocky said:

    impartial said:

    Had an interesting zoom with a friend who until very recently worked in Number 10. Been there since Blair years in a junior post. I asked her about the various PMs . She said the working environment changed with each one. Under Blair - relaxed. Brown - austere. Coalition/Cameron - friendly kind. May - cold. Boris - chaotic fearful.

    Boris - chaotic fearful: yes, but it doesn't have to be this way with the size of his majority. Why are they so weak and rudderless? Is this what comes from a lack of principle?
    Boris sounds a bit like Jim Hacker from this. I wonder whether he's been house trained by Sir Humphrey.
    Boris Johnson has always been disorganised, as a columnist for The Telegraph, editor of The Spectator, and Mayor of London he had people who could cover for him.

    As PM, during a pandemic being disorganised is disastrous as people do not have the power to cover for him.

    Which is why he kept on making the same mistake on delaying the lockdowns.
    Jim Hacker was a journalist. His only principle was being popular. He wasn't a blond though.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    Not at all. Think A1 and A7 crossings, Carlisle and Berwick, and rainy weather. Not to mention Coldstream/Cornhill.
    Cross the border at Kershope Burn, pop into Newcastleton for a quick one, home again. More chance of seeing a red squirrel than a member of the SNP, you will hardly meet a vehicle and you never leave Tory held territory. God's own country.

    Once you have done that a couple of times you will see why borders people don't want 28 customs posts at the 28 road crossings between England and Scotland.

    Tough luck the turkeys are getting them , we cannot run the country for a handful of hillbillies with 6 fingers and toes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    Not at all. Think A1 and A7 crossings, Carlisle and Berwick, and rainy weather. Not to mention Coldstream/Cornhill.
    Cross the border at Kershope Burn, pop into Newcastleton for a quick one, home again. More chance of seeing a red squirrel than a member of the SNP, you will hardly meet a vehicle and you never leave Tory held territory. God's own country.

    Once you have done that a couple of times you will see why borders people don't want 28 customs posts at the 28 road crossings between England and Scotland.

    Hmm. NI used to have a lot more road crossings even with a hard border.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,221
    edited April 2021
    EU to sue Astra-Zeneca.

    (Admittedly says the Politico)

    https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-preparing-legal-case-against-astrazeneca-over-vaccine-shortfalls/

    How long would this take in a 1) UK court 2) Belgian Court?
  • Looking at the most recent polling for Holyrood I am of the opinion, that the Scottish electorate are being very ‘cannie’ if the polls are to be believed.

    It does seem that Salmond is ‘persona non grata’ in Scotland, indeed he is polling worse than Boris, and the electorate look as if they are to indulge in a substantial tactical vote on the list to ensure their second vote goes to green and thereby denies Salmond a place at the table in Holyrood.

    At the same time, the Scots like Sturgeon’s brand and are willing to grant her another term, but also are beginning to show signs that they are not as in favour of Independence as the SNP would have you believe, hence todays poll showing No ahead of Yes 48/44

    Nicola is far to good a politician to prejudice her legacy by going ‘gung-ho’ on indyref2 and. as she likes power, will use covid to delay indyref 2 as it is not the time

    As the next SNP Holyrood administration has to face the day to day job of health, education and a host of other subjects, neglected by the obsession with indyref2, Nicola will have all her work cut out just to keep the SNP popularity onside and I expect indyref2 will be parked until or unless there is a clear majority in Scotland for it.

    Now many will have their own opinion, but this is my view leading up to Holyrood 2021

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1385123806390456322?s=19

    If parties pledged to independence with it clearly in their manifesto get re-elected that IS a clear majority for it. Democracy isn't based on opinion polls, it is based on elections.

    You will need to be ready to explain why democracy doesn't really count unless you vote for the thing you believe in. And we all know that you are the arrange marriage to Boris Johnson as Prince Akeem, you believe in whatever he believes in. But you are very good at hopping on one leg whilst barking like a dog, so thats ok.
    You have a sad attitude to play 'school ground name calling' in most every post.

    I have no idea about your connection to Scotland other than as a recent converted Englishman

    Read my post and it has nothing to do with Boris, but everything to do with my own knowledge of having lived, worked and been married to a northern Scot for nearly 60 years
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    And losing the Scottish team would ensure serious damage to Mr Johnson's reputation in Scotland. Wales, too, though NI is looking increasingly a special case for the usual reasons.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,448
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    How come Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham play in English leagues, then? Or is it a question of 'custom and practice"? Which suggests an interesting problem if Wrexham become entitled to promotion back into the Football League, as they may well do.
    Especially as they've a lot of money coming their way!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿New Holyrood List VI

    SNP 38 (-2)
    Conservative 23 (+2)
    Labour 17 (-1)
    Green 7 (-2)
    LD 5 (-1)
    Other 8 (+2)

    16-20 April
    Savanta ComRes
    (chg from 2-7 April)

    Where’s this leave us?

    Looks as though the Tory rise is pretty consistent across Britain - we've had polls from Wales, West Midlands and Scotland all bearing out the national polls. Labour may be holding up in Wales but Sarwar doesn't seem to breaking through for Scottish Labour despite his succes d'estime in the commentariat. On those figures, IndyRef looks stalled and an SNP overall majority quite unlikely. Odd of ComRes not to spell out the Others - if that's mostly Alba, Salmond will get a chunk of seats, but if they're only on 3-4 then the yield will probably be 0-1.
    I disagree to the extent that those numbers might still give the SNP a majority in Holyrood, certainly with Green support. But if they fall short of 50% Boris will be entitled to refuse a s30 application.
    Rubbish David, it is down to Independence supporting MSP's elected. Typical unionist to always have a crappy way to try and get out of being democratic. The SNP does not equal independence, it is only a part of it. SNP will only go for independence if ALBA get a decent amount of seats and push it. Sturgeon is interested only in herself and will continue to just mouth platitudes till she sets up her next cushy number, assuming she survives all the court cases.
    I maybe didn't make that clear Malcolm. My view, FWIW, is that if SNP +Greens +Alba exceed 50% then the majority of Scots will have voted for a second referendum and that should be respected. If Tories + Labour + Lib Dems exceed 50% then they haven't whether there is a majority in the toon cooncil or not.
    Glad to hear David, good to see ONE Tory understands what democracy means. What do you think of the shambles DRoss is making of it , he really is the worst we have seen from Tories and rivals Leonard as worst ever.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited April 2021
    Fishing said:

    I find it incredible how widely opinion can swing on here in a few months.

    Go back a few months and it was about Johnson going in 2022, into the sunset. Now he’s going to be PM forever.

    I think beyond the vaccines he’s done a truly terrible job but I can’t help but respect his ability to win things and also to somehow come back from the dead.

    Of course the Government’s popularity sank into the floor very quickly and I am sure it will again. It’s just whether Johnson can continue to overcome gravity again. And all bets are off, I don’t have a clue.

    Anyone predicting a Johnson 10 year premiership is probably as justified as anyone predicting a one minute one. We don’t know.

    All true but that'll never stop people speculating, whether because this a betting site and that's what betting is, or because, like me, it's just fun to do so.
    True, but since the pandemic the site (or many of its posters, at least) seems to have acquired a very short term focus. It's easy, lazy, and ultimately unhelpful to take current circumstances and simply project them forward. The trick - in betting as in life - is to try and imagine how things might change.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,221
    edited April 2021

    Startled to read the Electoral Commission guidance to local election candidates - while it cautions that lying about opponents' personal lives is a serious offence, it says blandly that lying about their policies is part of normal poltics.

    Do you have a link, @NickPalmer ?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    Cardiff and Swansea play in the English league system. They used to enter the Welsh Cup as a way to qualify for the Cup Winners’ Cup (European police forces loved that!).

    That’s the big downside for the old firm. Europe only on merit.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    There might be a few dozen heading for Gretna, Hawick or a couple of villages north of Berwick, but that's going to be about it. Do they think that half of Carlisle is going to take the train to Glasgow, and half of Newcastle to Edinburgh?
  • Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    You really don't know anything about football.

    No way anyone in the EPL or English football wants Rangers and Celtic in the PL

    Which two clubs are going to make way for them, as the PL doesn't have the scope in the calendar for a 22 club PL.
    I cannot see it happening though it has been spoken about for years
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,991

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    You really don't know anything about football.

    No way anyone in the EPL or English football wants Rangers and Celtic in the PL

    Which two clubs are going to make way for them, as the PL doesn't have the scope in the calendar for a 22 club PL.
    Surely it would be a sacrifice worth making to see the Rangers support doing a tour of English football grounds and cities?
    God no, I'd go up to Scotland and campaign for the SNP to stop it happening.

    It is still a bloody mystery to me that Scotland can simultaneously produce fans of the Old Firm and the Tartan Army.

    I really hope at least some of the Tartan Army are allowed into the England v. Scotland Euros match.
    Scotland support is quite a weird and mutating thing, in the old days Celtic fans shunned it as as a Hunnish thing (quite a few still do), now Rangers fans tend to shun it as non British. Funny old game as they say.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,238
    lloydy said:

    lloydy said:

    Stocky said:

    impartial said:

    Had an interesting zoom with a friend who until very recently worked in Number 10. Been there since Blair years in a junior post. I asked her about the various PMs . She said the working environment changed with each one. Under Blair - relaxed. Brown - austere. Coalition/Cameron - friendly kind. May - cold. Boris - chaotic fearful.

    Boris - chaotic fearful: yes, but it doesn't have to be this way with the size of his majority. Why are they so weak and rudderless? Is this what comes from a lack of principle?
    Boris sounds a bit like Jim Hacker from this. I wonder whether he's been house trained by Sir Humphrey.
    Boris Johnson has always been disorganised, as a columnist for The Telegraph, editor of The Spectator, and Mayor of London he had people who could cover for him.

    As PM, during a pandemic being disorganised is disastrous as people do not have the power to cover for him.

    Which is why he kept on making the same mistake on delaying the lockdowns.
    Jim Hacker was a journalist. His only principle was being popular. He wasn't a blond though.
    On the other hand, Hacker did show some ethical qualms from time to time.

    And, if the novelisations are to be believed, he was nationally loved enough, or more likely left enough money, to endow Hacker College, Oxford.
  • Labour ahead on crime albeit within MOE is interesting.

    Of course the economy score still kills them overall, they must show they’ve moved back to the centre on economics.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,657
    edited April 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    How come Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham play in English leagues, then? Or is it a question of 'custom and practice"? Which suggests an interesting problem if Wrexham become entitled to promotion back into the Football League, as they may well do.
    Especially as they've a lot of money coming their way!
    Custom and practice going back to the 1920s.

    Cardiff and Swansea are under the supervision of the English FA.

    Wrexham remain under the supervision of the FAW, so they may not get to the PL.

    Sending Swansea and Cardiff back to the Welsh leagues would likely put them out of business.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873
    MattW said:

    Startled to read the Electoral Commission guidance to local election candidates - while it cautions that lying about opponents' personal lives is a serious offence, it says blandly that lying about their policies is part of normal poltics.

    Do you have a link, @NickPalmer ?
    https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=9452fba6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7 makes intyeresting reading. IIRC there was also a court case in Tower Hamlets but memory is faint on that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,351

    Leon said:

    BORIS IS ALLAH. BORIS SAVED FOOTBALL

    🚨⚽️ | NEW: The six Premier League clubs who were in the Super League were “stunned by the speed and force of the prime minister’s reaction”

    Via @thetimes

    There's an assumption that the promised "fan-led review" of football will be a non-event. But I wonder.

    I've noted before of Johnson that, when Mayor, he did have a significant success in improving cycle lane infrastructure, which happened because he gave the job to someone (Gilligan) who ended up being determined and capable.

    That's the pattern that he repeated with the Vaccine Taskforce.

    The review into football is an opportunity to do this again. Has anyone been given the job of organising it?
    Yes, the trick with delegating a single task is to find an expert on the area in question.

    Gilligan also did invaluable work on seeing off the entrenched interests that were stopping the Thames being used as a transport link. At one point, five or so house boat owners were holding up the running of a passenger service. Gilligan pointed out that by putting in some anti wash pilings by their mornings - which cost the square root of FA to do - you could make the end environment *better* for the boat owners....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    There might be a few dozen heading for Gretna, Hawick or a couple of villages north of Berwick, but that's going to be about it. Do they think that half of Carlisle is going to take the train to Glasgow, and half of Newcastle to Edinburgh?
    Stag and hen parties maybe. Quite noticeable on crossborder trains of yore.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350

    Looking at the most recent polling for Holyrood I am of the opinion, that the Scottish electorate are being very ‘cannie’ if the polls are to be believed.

    It does seem that Salmond is ‘persona non grata’ in Scotland, indeed he is polling worse than Boris, and the electorate look as if they are to indulge in a substantial tactical vote on the list to ensure their second vote goes to green and thereby denies Salmond a place at the table in Holyrood.

    At the same time, the Scots like Sturgeon’s brand and are willing to grant her another term, but also are beginning to show signs that they are not as in favour of Independence as the SNP would have you believe, hence todays poll showing No ahead of Yes 48/44

    Nicola is far to good a politician to prejudice her legacy by going ‘gung-ho’ on indyref2 and. as she likes power, will use covid to delay indyref 2 as it is not the time

    As the next SNP Holyrood administration has to face the day to day job of health, education and a host of other subjects, neglected by the obsession with indyref2, Nicola will have all her work cut out just to keep the SNP popularity onside and I expect indyref2 will be parked until or unless there is a clear majority in Scotland for it.

    Now many will have their own opinion, but this is my view leading up to Holyrood 2021

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1385123806390456322?s=19

    If parties pledged to independence with it clearly in their manifesto get re-elected that IS a clear majority for it. Democracy isn't based on opinion polls, it is based on elections.

    You will need to be ready to explain why democracy doesn't really count unless you vote for the thing you believe in. And we all know that you are the arrange marriage to Boris Johnson as Prince Akeem, you believe in whatever he believes in. But you are very good at hopping on one leg whilst barking like a dog, so thats ok.
    You have a sad attitude to play 'school ground name calling' in most every post.

    I have no idea about your connection to Scotland other than as a recent converted Englishman

    Read my post and it has nothing to do with Boris, but everything to do with my own knowledge of having lived, worked and been married to a northern Scot for nearly 60 years
    G, with respect I think you are talking about a different Scotland to that which exists today. I do not recognise the real Scotland in your posts, they seem some nostalgic view from the past. Times have changed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    And losing the Scottish team would ensure serious damage to Mr Johnson's reputation in Scotland. Wales, too, though NI is looking increasingly a special case for the usual reasons.
    I just said. For the virtues of those with a reading age over 4

    “This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All PLAYING and VOTING individually”

    Honestly. Scots with a bloody grievance

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic I find the idea that the scales were suddenly lifted from Mercer's eyes in the last 36 hours and he suddenly realised that those involved in politics were not always truthful genuinely risible. I begin to wonder if he is one of those adults that @TSE was talking about in the previous thread header who really shouldn't be allowed out of the house without adult supervision. I mean, this man has been in Parliament for 6 years. What did he think was going on?

    So is the complaint that Mercer should have known that the PM is a lair and therefore should not have complained? The problem is that the PM is a liar who is throwing yet another group (army veterans) under the bus having lied about a pledge he had no intention of keeping. Again. So it is truly entertaining that the blame is being aimed at the former army Captain doing his job with honour instead of the repeatedly sacked liar.
    Yes, you are starting to get the idea.
    Understood. So your complaint isn't a PM who lied to army veterans that he would stop them being thrown under the bus. Your complaint is that an honourable man trying to do his job on behalf of his former comrades didn't quit earlier and make no attempt to help them.
    No, I will try to explain how it works. Boris stood for the leadership. In doing so he was asked a lot of questions about a lot of things and expressed views on them. His answers no doubt reflected his opinion on many of those things but were also skillfully designed to expand the tent of his supporters so that he could win. This is called politics.

    Some who came on board because of those views, such as Mercer, were expecting action on those views. But a PM can only fight so many battles at one time. Boris had first to deal with getting Brexit through and then deal with Covid. It has been all consuming for his government. Those who have an agenda that falls within those priorities, such as some of Patel's plans, have made progress. Those whose agenda did not fall within that have found themselves on the back burner. This is government. It's what happens.

    To ask if this makes Boris a liar is really looking down the wrong end of the telescope. He has expressed aspirations that he has not achieved. He is trying to run a government in a time of absolute crisis. Mercer is painfully naïve. Well meaning and genuinely motivated but naïve.
    It really is worth reading a little more about him. His mendacity predates this pandemic by several years. There are politicians who tell white lies because they have no choice. They are put in impossible positions. There are very few for whom truth has no meaning. Trump was one and Johnson is another. Alan Duncan as his No 2 at the foreign office paints an interesting picture.....

    Though he has a roguish charm he is in fact Iago. It might be attractive to Tories who want to win at all costs but there will be a reckoning and some pretty red faces when it happens.
  • tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    Cardiff and Swansea play in the English league system. They used to enter the Welsh Cup as a way to qualify for the Cup Winners’ Cup (European police forces loved that!).

    That’s the big downside for the old firm. Europe only on merit.
    The other thing is sporting merit, having made a big hoo ha about how sporting merit needs to be honoured there's no way the PL would let the Old Firm straight into the PL and there's a couple of PL clubs and a few Championship clubs who would have strenuous objections to that.

    If Celtic and Rangers want to join the English football system let them apply for membership of the National League.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    Cardiff and Swansea play in the English league system. They used to enter the Welsh Cup as a way to qualify for the Cup Winners’ Cup (European police forces loved that!).

    That’s the big downside for the old firm. Europe only on merit.
    Is that merit like the turkeys who finish 6th in EPL, real champions in their country for sure.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    Not at all. Think A1 and A7 crossings, Carlisle and Berwick, and rainy weather. Not to mention Coldstream/Cornhill.
    Cornhill ! It's barely bigger than a hamlet.

    Lots of effort to make pensioners of Cornhill think twice before heading to the Newcastle arms for an orange juice in Coldstream
    On Scots Independence, when I was a young teenager I canoed from Pebbles to Berwick over several days camping on route, and as the middle of the Tweed is the border up to Chainbridge, I assume I would need a passport to get out on the Coldstream side to get a coffee, as that would be over the border from my home in Berwick
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    How come Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham play in English leagues, then? Or is it a question of 'custom and practice"? Which suggests an interesting problem if Wrexham become entitled to promotion back into the Football League, as they may well do.
    Especially as they've a lot of money coming their way!
    They are "English clubs" that play in Wales.

    Just as the most successful "Welsh club" -- 19 times winner of the Welsh Premier League -- actually plays in England.

    The New Saints are the successor to Oswestry Town and they play in Croesoswallt in Shropshire.
  • algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    Not at all. Think A1 and A7 crossings, Carlisle and Berwick, and rainy weather. Not to mention Coldstream/Cornhill.
    Cross the border at Kershope Burn, pop into Newcastleton for a quick one, home again. More chance of seeing a red squirrel than a member of the SNP, you will hardly meet a vehicle and you never leave Tory held territory. God's own country.

    Once you have done that a couple of times you will see why borders people don't want 28 customs posts at the 28 road crossings between England and Scotland.

    On last week's business trip to Zummerzet, I crossed the border at Carter Bar. For miles along the A68 there was hardly a soul about. Bliss...
  • malcolmg said:

    Looking at the most recent polling for Holyrood I am of the opinion, that the Scottish electorate are being very ‘cannie’ if the polls are to be believed.

    It does seem that Salmond is ‘persona non grata’ in Scotland, indeed he is polling worse than Boris, and the electorate look as if they are to indulge in a substantial tactical vote on the list to ensure their second vote goes to green and thereby denies Salmond a place at the table in Holyrood.

    At the same time, the Scots like Sturgeon’s brand and are willing to grant her another term, but also are beginning to show signs that they are not as in favour of Independence as the SNP would have you believe, hence todays poll showing No ahead of Yes 48/44

    Nicola is far to good a politician to prejudice her legacy by going ‘gung-ho’ on indyref2 and. as she likes power, will use covid to delay indyref 2 as it is not the time

    As the next SNP Holyrood administration has to face the day to day job of health, education and a host of other subjects, neglected by the obsession with indyref2, Nicola will have all her work cut out just to keep the SNP popularity onside and I expect indyref2 will be parked until or unless there is a clear majority in Scotland for it.

    Now many will have their own opinion, but this is my view leading up to Holyrood 2021

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1385123806390456322?s=19

    If parties pledged to independence with it clearly in their manifesto get re-elected that IS a clear majority for it. Democracy isn't based on opinion polls, it is based on elections.

    You will need to be ready to explain why democracy doesn't really count unless you vote for the thing you believe in. And we all know that you are the arrange marriage to Boris Johnson as Prince Akeem, you believe in whatever he believes in. But you are very good at hopping on one leg whilst barking like a dog, so thats ok.
    The colonialists on here want to pretend the SNP is the only independence party and only people who vote SNP are wanting independence. Reality is totally secondary and democracy does not enter into it at all. They just want to keep their colony.
    Reminder todays poll - No 48 yes 44
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,746
    edited April 2021
    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    Not at all. Think A1 and A7 crossings, Carlisle and Berwick, and rainy weather. Not to mention Coldstream/Cornhill.
    Why bother of you can't drink in them? Last time I checked pubs and restaurants can't serve booze indoors until May 17th, the same day as England and Wales.
    J20. Lovely stuff.
    J2O. Used to be made in a factory near my parents' house. There was a fire one night and the police advice was to close windows due to emission of toxic substances. Makes you wonder what's in it* :wink:

    *Yes, I know, toxic fumes from burning plastic bottles most likely, but the local joke was that you shouldn't smoke while having a J2O
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    And losing the Scottish team would ensure serious damage to Mr Johnson's reputation in Scotland. Wales, too, though NI is looking increasingly a special case for the usual reasons.
    I just said. For the virtues of those with a reading age over 4

    “This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All PLAYING and VOTING individually”

    Honestly. Scots with a bloody grievance

    Sorry, had missed yours in the earlier comments!

    I don't actually have a grievance over either option - just pointing out a possible political factor to weigh up objectively. As you say it all depends on FIFA reaction. It's a very sensitive issue with a small but significant minority of voters across the board.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    How come Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham play in English leagues, then? Or is it a question of 'custom and practice"? Which suggests an interesting problem if Wrexham become entitled to promotion back into the Football League, as they may well do.
    Especially as they've a lot of money coming their way!
    The fact that separate English, Scottish, Welsh and NI leagues exist is why the UK can enter four teams into the World Cup - even if a few teams don't necessarily enter the 'correct' competitions for historical reasons.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    And losing the Scottish team would ensure serious damage to Mr Johnson's reputation in Scotland. Wales, too, though NI is looking increasingly a special case for the usual reasons.
    I just said. For the virtues of those with a reading age over 4

    “This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All PLAYING and VOTING individually”

    Honestly. Scots with a bloody grievance

    Stick your Britishness where the sun does not shine
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿New Holyrood List VI

    SNP 38 (-2)
    Conservative 23 (+2)
    Labour 17 (-1)
    Green 7 (-2)
    LD 5 (-1)
    Other 8 (+2)

    16-20 April
    Savanta ComRes
    (chg from 2-7 April)

    Where’s this leave us?

    Looks as though the Tory rise is pretty consistent across Britain - we've had polls from Wales, West Midlands and Scotland all bearing out the national polls. Labour may be holding up in Wales but Sarwar doesn't seem to breaking through for Scottish Labour despite his succes d'estime in the commentariat. On those figures, IndyRef looks stalled and an SNP overall majority quite unlikely. Odd of ComRes not to spell out the Others - if that's mostly Alba, Salmond will get a chunk of seats, but if they're only on 3-4 then the yield will probably be 0-1.
    I disagree to the extent that those numbers might still give the SNP a majority in Holyrood, certainly with Green support. But if they fall short of 50% Boris will be entitled to refuse a s30 application.
    Rubbish David, it is down to Independence supporting MSP's elected. Typical unionist to always have a crappy way to try and get out of being democratic. The SNP does not equal independence, it is only a part of it. SNP will only go for independence if ALBA get a decent amount of seats and push it. Sturgeon is interested only in herself and will continue to just mouth platitudes till she sets up her next cushy number, assuming she survives all the court cases.
    I maybe didn't make that clear Malcolm. My view, FWIW, is that if SNP +Greens +Alba exceed 50% then the majority of Scots will have voted for a second referendum and that should be respected. If Tories + Labour + Lib Dems exceed 50% then they haven't whether there is a majority in the toon cooncil or not.
    Glad to hear David, good to see ONE Tory understands what democracy means. What do you think of the shambles DRoss is making of it , he really is the worst we have seen from Tories and rivals Leonard as worst ever.
    I have been....underwhelmed.
  • Looking at the most recent polling for Holyrood I am of the opinion, that the Scottish electorate are being very ‘cannie’ if the polls are to be believed.

    It does seem that Salmond is ‘persona non grata’ in Scotland, indeed he is polling worse than Boris, and the electorate look as if they are to indulge in a substantial tactical vote on the list to ensure their second vote goes to green and thereby denies Salmond a place at the table in Holyrood.

    At the same time, the Scots like Sturgeon’s brand and are willing to grant her another term, but also are beginning to show signs that they are not as in favour of Independence as the SNP would have you believe, hence todays poll showing No ahead of Yes 48/44

    Nicola is far to good a politician to prejudice her legacy by going ‘gung-ho’ on indyref2 and. as she likes power, will use covid to delay indyref 2 as it is not the time

    As the next SNP Holyrood administration has to face the day to day job of health, education and a host of other subjects, neglected by the obsession with indyref2, Nicola will have all her work cut out just to keep the SNP popularity onside and I expect indyref2 will be parked until or unless there is a clear majority in Scotland for it.

    Now many will have their own opinion, but this is my view leading up to Holyrood 2021

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1385123806390456322?s=19

    If parties pledged to independence with it clearly in their manifesto get re-elected that IS a clear majority for it. Democracy isn't based on opinion polls, it is based on elections.

    You will need to be ready to explain why democracy doesn't really count unless you vote for the thing you believe in. And we all know that you are the arrange marriage to Boris Johnson as Prince Akeem, you believe in whatever he believes in. But you are very good at hopping on one leg whilst barking like a dog, so thats ok.
    You have a sad attitude to play 'school ground name calling' in most every post.

    I have no idea about your connection to Scotland other than as a recent converted Englishman

    Read my post and it has nothing to do with Boris, but everything to do with my own knowledge of having lived, worked and been married to a northern Scot for nearly 60 years
    I bow to your lengthy connections to Scotland which I do not have (and have not claimed otherwise). And my apologies to you - I read your post and thought it was @HYUFD. I was calling him a yapping puppy at the feet of Boris, not you. Apologies again.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    Cardiff and Swansea play in the English league system. They used to enter the Welsh Cup as a way to qualify for the Cup Winners’ Cup (European police forces loved that!).

    That’s the big downside for the old firm. Europe only on merit.
    The other thing is sporting merit, having made a big hoo ha about how sporting merit needs to be honoured there's no way the PL would let the Old Firm straight into the PL and there's a couple of PL clubs and a few Championship clubs who would have strenuous objections to that.

    If Celtic and Rangers want to join the English football system let them apply for membership of the National League.
    EPL teams would brick it , they would be scared of a good thrashing from Old Firm. Unfortunately we see their boring matches up here, most would struggle against the Old Firm.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    How come Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham play in English leagues, then? Or is it a question of 'custom and practice"? Which suggests an interesting problem if Wrexham become entitled to promotion back into the Football League, as they may well do.
    Especially as they've a lot of money coming their way!
    The fact that separate English, Scottish, Welsh and NI leagues exist is why the UK can enter four teams into the World Cup - even if a few teams don't necessarily enter the 'correct' competitions for historical reasons.
    Liechtenstein says hello:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_Liechtenstein
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,221
    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's comments on bars and pubs are ridiculous. The populated parts of Scotland and England are a long way from each other.

    What did she say?
    Speaking at the Covid briefing, Ms Sturgeon said: “From Monday for a period until the middle of May actually there will be more hospitality open in Scotland than in England because there will be some indoor opening — albeit very restricted — that’s not the case yet in England.

    “So again if people are coming north across the border, you know, don’t sort of crowd into places — you shouldn’t be allowed to crowd into places indoors — but don’t come specifically to sort of escape the rules in your own area.”


    How many people are going to head north JUST to go into a Scottish boozer ? It's preposterous.
    Not at all. Think A1 and A7 crossings, Carlisle and Berwick, and rainy weather. Not to mention Coldstream/Cornhill.
    Why bother of you can't drink in them? Last time I checked pubs and restaurants can't serve booze indoors until May 17th, the same day as England and Wales.
    J20. Lovely stuff.
    Oh the drink.

    Thought you meant going out to Leicester Forest East with the lorry-spotters.
  • tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    Cardiff and Swansea play in the English league system. They used to enter the Welsh Cup as a way to qualify for the Cup Winners’ Cup (European police forces loved that!).

    That’s the big downside for the old firm. Europe only on merit.
    The other thing is sporting merit, having made a big hoo ha about how sporting merit needs to be honoured there's no way the PL would let the Old Firm straight into the PL and there's a couple of PL clubs and a few Championship clubs who would have strenuous objections to that.

    If Celtic and Rangers want to join the English football system let them apply for membership of the National League.
    There is a simple reason why this isn't going to happen. If we turn the English leagues into British leagues then we give up our arguments for being separate nations deserving of separate national teams. Frankly a British team would have a far better prospect for chances of footballing success, but would remove the real purposes of international football. Getting drunk and smashing up foreign cities whilst chanting ENG-ER-LUND.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    tlg86 said:
    There's a lot of fans of The Six, that aren't about to forget what happened this week.
  • malcolmg said:

    Looking at the most recent polling for Holyrood I am of the opinion, that the Scottish electorate are being very ‘cannie’ if the polls are to be believed.

    It does seem that Salmond is ‘persona non grata’ in Scotland, indeed he is polling worse than Boris, and the electorate look as if they are to indulge in a substantial tactical vote on the list to ensure their second vote goes to green and thereby denies Salmond a place at the table in Holyrood.

    At the same time, the Scots like Sturgeon’s brand and are willing to grant her another term, but also are beginning to show signs that they are not as in favour of Independence as the SNP would have you believe, hence todays poll showing No ahead of Yes 48/44

    Nicola is far to good a politician to prejudice her legacy by going ‘gung-ho’ on indyref2 and. as she likes power, will use covid to delay indyref 2 as it is not the time

    As the next SNP Holyrood administration has to face the day to day job of health, education and a host of other subjects, neglected by the obsession with indyref2, Nicola will have all her work cut out just to keep the SNP popularity onside and I expect indyref2 will be parked until or unless there is a clear majority in Scotland for it.

    Now many will have their own opinion, but this is my view leading up to Holyrood 2021

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1385123806390456322?s=19

    If parties pledged to independence with it clearly in their manifesto get re-elected that IS a clear majority for it. Democracy isn't based on opinion polls, it is based on elections.

    You will need to be ready to explain why democracy doesn't really count unless you vote for the thing you believe in. And we all know that you are the arrange marriage to Boris Johnson as Prince Akeem, you believe in whatever he believes in. But you are very good at hopping on one leg whilst barking like a dog, so thats ok.
    You have a sad attitude to play 'school ground name calling' in most every post.

    I have no idea about your connection to Scotland other than as a recent converted Englishman

    Read my post and it has nothing to do with Boris, but everything to do with my own knowledge of having lived, worked and been married to a northern Scot for nearly 60 years
    G, with respect I think you are talking about a different Scotland to that which exists today. I do not recognise the real Scotland in your posts, they seem some nostalgic view from the past. Times have changed.
    I am not convinced they have but time will tell
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    Roger said:


    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic I find the idea that the scales were suddenly lifted from Mercer's eyes in the last 36 hours and he suddenly realised that those involved in politics were not always truthful genuinely risible. I begin to wonder if he is one of those adults that @TSE was talking about in the previous thread header who really shouldn't be allowed out of the house without adult supervision. I mean, this man has been in Parliament for 6 years. What did he think was going on?

    So is the complaint that Mercer should have known that the PM is a lair and therefore should not have complained? The problem is that the PM is a liar who is throwing yet another group (army veterans) under the bus having lied about a pledge he had no intention of keeping. Again. So it is truly entertaining that the blame is being aimed at the former army Captain doing his job with honour instead of the repeatedly sacked liar.
    Yes, you are starting to get the idea.
    Understood. So your complaint isn't a PM who lied to army veterans that he would stop them being thrown under the bus. Your complaint is that an honourable man trying to do his job on behalf of his former comrades didn't quit earlier and make no attempt to help them.
    No, I will try to explain how it works. Boris stood for the leadership. In doing so he was asked a lot of questions about a lot of things and expressed views on them. His answers no doubt reflected his opinion on many of those things but were also skillfully designed to expand the tent of his supporters so that he could win. This is called politics.

    Some who came on board because of those views, such as Mercer, were expecting action on those views. But a PM can only fight so many battles at one time. Boris had first to deal with getting Brexit through and then deal with Covid. It has been all consuming for his government. Those who have an agenda that falls within those priorities, such as some of Patel's plans, have made progress. Those whose agenda did not fall within that have found themselves on the back burner. This is government. It's what happens.

    To ask if this makes Boris a liar is really looking down the wrong end of the telescope. He has expressed aspirations that he has not achieved. He is trying to run a government in a time of absolute crisis. Mercer is painfully naïve. Well meaning and genuinely motivated but naïve.
    It really is worth reading a little more about him. His mendacity predates this pandemic by several years. There are politicians who tell white lies because they have no choice. They are put in impossible positions. There are very few for whom truth has no meaning. Trump was one and Johnson is another. Alan Duncan as his No 2 at the foreign office paints an interesting picture.....

    Though he has a roguish charm he is in fact Iago. It might be attractive to Tories who want to win at all costs but there will be a reckoning and some pretty red faces when it happens.
    I would trust Alan Duncan considerably less far than I could throw him but I do not dispute that Boris is mendacious.

    Ultimately, I don't expect much more of any successful politician although he may be an extreme example. This does not mean that he is not a good PM or that he is not running an effective government. Right now he is. People see that and that is why he is so high in the polls.

    This is the reality and suggests my view of politics is shared by a significant proportion of the populace. Lots of people jumping up and down on PB or twitter or the Guardian saying, "please miss, please miss, Boris told a fib" really don't move the dial. His government will fall when it no longer delivers to his supporters in their judgment. Don't hold your breath.
  • malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    Cardiff and Swansea play in the English league system. They used to enter the Welsh Cup as a way to qualify for the Cup Winners’ Cup (European police forces loved that!).

    That’s the big downside for the old firm. Europe only on merit.
    The other thing is sporting merit, having made a big hoo ha about how sporting merit needs to be honoured there's no way the PL would let the Old Firm straight into the PL and there's a couple of PL clubs and a few Championship clubs who would have strenuous objections to that.

    If Celtic and Rangers want to join the English football system let them apply for membership of the National League.
    EPL teams would brick it , they would be scared of a good thrashing from Old Firm. Unfortunately we see their boring matches up here, most would struggle against the Old Firm.
    The harsh light of day for football is that there are too many professional clubs competing for too few fans. If teams were happy playing in the Vanarama league then that wouldn't be a problem. But money corrupts and they all want to be MASSIVE.

    Growing up in Rochdale we had a team. As did Oldham. Bury. Bolton. Wigan. And every other small town in Lancashire. Small teams dream big - which is great! Its when they think they actually are big that we have a problem. My brother is an Oldham fan, and a few seasons in the top flight started a "lets spend" trend which after a succession of crap owners now has the brink of folding like Bury did. Blackburn built a massive stadium that they could only fill if the whole town paid to watch. Its genuinely absurd - so I can understand why owners looked at somewhere like Milton Keynes and said "lets move" even though it was a disaster from a fans perspective.

    Add in big teams from Scotland and all that will happen is that teams on both sides of the border will fold. Doesn't bother me, but would the fans who think that every club has the right to exist regardless of finance or sanity. They don't.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,448

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    How come Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham play in English leagues, then? Or is it a question of 'custom and practice"? Which suggests an interesting problem if Wrexham become entitled to promotion back into the Football League, as they may well do.
    Especially as they've a lot of money coming their way!
    They are "English clubs" that play in Wales.

    Just as the most successful "Welsh club" -- 19 times winner of the Welsh Premier League -- actually plays in England.

    The New Saints are the successor to Oswestry Town and they play in Croesoswallt in Shropshire.
    I thought The New Siants were a renamed Llansantffraid. Wikipedia says that they subsequently merged with Oswestry Town to get a more suitable ground.
  • tlg86 said:
    That could have been from 2005

    We (Man Utd supporters) have always wanted the Glaziers out and hopefully this idiotic idea from them may hasten the end of their involvement with the club'

    They are not wanted and it says it all when Joel Glazier had not been heard in public from 2005 until his grovelling apology yesterday

    Just go
  • malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    Cardiff and Swansea play in the English league system. They used to enter the Welsh Cup as a way to qualify for the Cup Winners’ Cup (European police forces loved that!).

    That’s the big downside for the old firm. Europe only on merit.
    The other thing is sporting merit, having made a big hoo ha about how sporting merit needs to be honoured there's no way the PL would let the Old Firm straight into the PL and there's a couple of PL clubs and a few Championship clubs who would have strenuous objections to that.

    If Celtic and Rangers want to join the English football system let them apply for membership of the National League.
    EPL teams would brick it , they would be scared of a good thrashing from Old Firm. Unfortunately we see their boring matches up here, most would struggle against the Old Firm.
    Yeah right.

    When was the last time a non Old Firm side won the title or when was the last time a Scottish side won a European trophy? I'm guessing the 80s with Aberdeen?

    Compare and contrast with England, we've had 5 different winners in the last decade and two different clubs to have won the Champions league in the last decade, and three Europa League winners.

    The SPL is a pub league in comparison, you'd lose to Sheffield United.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    You really don't know anything about football.

    No way anyone in the EPL or English football wants Rangers and Celtic in the PL

    Which two clubs are going to make way for them, as the PL doesn't have the scope in the calendar for a 22 club PL.
    You don’t understand. BORIS HAS SAVED FOOTBALL.

    He really has. It’s not just drunken crackheads like me. It us being reported widely across Europe. His interventions destroyed the Superleague

    Regional leagues as we discussed last night are the way to save European leagues, without any of this grotesque Superleague ‘closed shop’ bollocks. The British Premiership is already being discussed.

    ‘A new British Super League is reportedly in the works with Celtic and Rangers to join a reformed 18-team Premier League’

    Win win win for Boris. Also for football. A Franco-German league would be amazing. PSG v Bayern

    https://twitter.com/talksport/status/1384996995295764481?s=21
    Not going to happen, the EPL project is based on selling a family friendly product/experience, the Old Firm aren't conducive to that.

    Not so long ago a peaceful Old Firm derby was when police didn't have to open multiple murder inquiries.
    I have a relative who works in Women's Aid. She says the three busiest times for domestic violence are Xmas, New Year and Old Firm games.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    You really don't know anything about football.

    No way anyone in the EPL or English football wants Rangers and Celtic in the PL

    Which two clubs are going to make way for them, as the PL doesn't have the scope in the calendar for a 22 club PL.
    You don’t understand. BORIS HAS SAVED FOOTBALL.

    He really has. It’s not just drunken crackheads like me. It us being reported widely across Europe. His interventions destroyed the Superleague

    Regional leagues as we discussed last night are the way to save European leagues, without any of this grotesque Superleague ‘closed shop’ bollocks. The British Premiership is already being discussed.

    ‘A new British Super League is reportedly in the works with Celtic and Rangers to join a reformed 18-team Premier League’

    Win win win for Boris. Also for football. A Franco-German league would be amazing. PSG v Bayern

    https://twitter.com/talksport/status/1384996995295764481?s=21
    Not going to happen, the EPL project is based on selling a family friendly product/experience, the Old Firm aren't conducive to that.

    Not so long ago a peaceful Old Firm derby was when police didn't have to open multiple murder inquiries.
    I have a relative who works in Women's Aid. She says the three busiest times for domestic violence are Xmas, New Year and Old Firm games.
    How can they tell for new year given that there’s an old firm match at new year?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    edited April 2021

    Looking at the most recent polling for Holyrood I am of the opinion, that the Scottish electorate are being very ‘cannie’ if the polls are to be believed.

    It does seem that Salmond is ‘persona non grata’ in Scotland, indeed he is polling worse than Boris, and the electorate look as if they are to indulge in a substantial tactical vote on the list to ensure their second vote goes to green and thereby denies Salmond a place at the table in Holyrood.

    At the same time, the Scots like Sturgeon’s brand and are willing to grant her another term, but also are beginning to show signs that they are not as in favour of Independence as the SNP would have you believe, hence todays poll showing No ahead of Yes 48/44

    Nicola is far to good a politician to prejudice her legacy by going ‘gung-ho’ on indyref2 and. as she likes power, will use covid to delay indyref 2 as it is not the time

    As the next SNP Holyrood administration has to face the day to day job of health, education and a host of other subjects, neglected by the obsession with indyref2, Nicola will have all her work cut out just to keep the SNP popularity onside and I expect indyref2 will be parked until or unless there is a clear majority in Scotland for it.

    Now many will have their own opinion, but this is my view leading up to Holyrood 2021

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1385123806390456322?s=19

    If parties pledged to independence with it clearly in their manifesto get re-elected that IS a clear majority for it. Democracy isn't based on opinion polls, it is based on elections.

    You will need to be ready to explain why democracy doesn't really count unless you vote for the thing you believe in. And we all know that you are the arrange marriage to Boris Johnson as Prince Akeem, you believe in whatever he believes in. But you are very good at hopping on one leg whilst barking like a dog, so thats ok.
    You have a sad attitude to play 'school ground name calling' in most every post.

    I have no idea about your connection to Scotland other than as a recent converted Englishman

    Read my post and it has nothing to do with Boris, but everything to do with my own knowledge of having lived, worked and been married to a northern Scot for nearly 60 years
    I bow to your lengthy connections to Scotland which I do not have (and have not claimed otherwise). And my apologies to you - I read your post and thought it was @HYUFD. I was calling him a yapping puppy at the feet of Boris, not you. Apologies again.
    Look, we Tories won a majority of 80 in the UK in the Commons in 2019 and under our constitution what a UK government with a majority in the Commons wants goes until the next general election.

    It does not matter what happens at Holyrood next month legally, Boris has said 2014 was a once in a generation referendum and Union matters are reserved to the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 so even if the SNP win a majority there will be no binding referendum allowed by the UK government until at least 2024 and only then most likely if Starmer becomes PM.

    The fact the SNP lead in Scotland is narrowing and No are now ahead again narrowly in indyref2 polls is encouraging but it does not change the fact from the Tory perspective 2014 was a once in a generation vote
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited April 2021
    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1385141364195741698

    Andy Street (Conservative) 46%

    Liam Byrne (Labour and Co-Operative) 37%

    Jenny Wilkinson (Liberal Democrats) 6%

    Steve Caudwell (Green) 5%

    Pete Durnell (Reform UK) 4%

    Other 3%


    Standard subsample warnings, but Street apparently leads every borough bar Birmingham.

    Street's net approval at +31 (15% strongly approve, against 4% strongly disproving).

    They key thing that I think may punters have overlooked are the other elections on the same day - every district of West Midlands
    County *bar* the City of Birmingham also have Metro borough elections happening. So turnout in the most strongly Labour area is likely to be lower, whereas no such effect should be present in the Tory boroughs. In 2017 no metro boroughs had elections.

    Street at 4/11 at WH looks to be strong value to me.
  • Looking at the most recent polling for Holyrood I am of the opinion, that the Scottish electorate are being very ‘cannie’ if the polls are to be believed.

    It does seem that Salmond is ‘persona non grata’ in Scotland, indeed he is polling worse than Boris, and the electorate look as if they are to indulge in a substantial tactical vote on the list to ensure their second vote goes to green and thereby denies Salmond a place at the table in Holyrood.

    At the same time, the Scots like Sturgeon’s brand and are willing to grant her another term, but also are beginning to show signs that they are not as in favour of Independence as the SNP would have you believe, hence todays poll showing No ahead of Yes 48/44

    Nicola is far to good a politician to prejudice her legacy by going ‘gung-ho’ on indyref2 and. as she likes power, will use covid to delay indyref 2 as it is not the time

    As the next SNP Holyrood administration has to face the day to day job of health, education and a host of other subjects, neglected by the obsession with indyref2, Nicola will have all her work cut out just to keep the SNP popularity onside and I expect indyref2 will be parked until or unless there is a clear majority in Scotland for it.

    Now many will have their own opinion, but this is my view leading up to Holyrood 2021

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1385123806390456322?s=19

    If parties pledged to independence with it clearly in their manifesto get re-elected that IS a clear majority for it. Democracy isn't based on opinion polls, it is based on elections.

    You will need to be ready to explain why democracy doesn't really count unless you vote for the thing you believe in. And we all know that you are the arrange marriage to Boris Johnson as Prince Akeem, you believe in whatever he believes in. But you are very good at hopping on one leg whilst barking like a dog, so thats ok.
    You have a sad attitude to play 'school ground name calling' in most every post.

    I have no idea about your connection to Scotland other than as a recent converted Englishman

    Read my post and it has nothing to do with Boris, but everything to do with my own knowledge of having lived, worked and been married to a northern Scot for nearly 60 years
    I bow to your lengthy connections to Scotland which I do not have (and have not claimed otherwise). And my apologies to you - I read your post and thought it was @HYUFD. I was calling him a yapping puppy at the feet of Boris, not you. Apologies again.
    Thank you

    Apology accepted

    You have a great contribution to make to this forum but it would be greatly enhanced if you just avoided silly name calling
  • tlg86 said:
    That could have been from 2005

    We (Man Utd supporters) have always wanted the Glaziers out and hopefully this idiotic idea from them may hasten the end of their involvement with the club'

    They are not wanted and it says it all when Joel Glazier had not been heard in public from 2005 until his grovelling apology yesterday

    Just go
    We only get shut of Joel et al by disqualifying them from being a fit and proper owner. The FA can't just say "all is forgiven" because fan power kyboshed the ESL proposal. They need to be removed from office for bringing football into disrepute.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,991
    On the topic of fitba, the great man himself.
    https://twitter.com/scotlandnt/status/1385148618844246019?s=21
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,448

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    Cardiff and Swansea play in the English league system. They used to enter the Welsh Cup as a way to qualify for the Cup Winners’ Cup (European police forces loved that!).

    That’s the big downside for the old firm. Europe only on merit.
    The other thing is sporting merit, having made a big hoo ha about how sporting merit needs to be honoured there's no way the PL would let the Old Firm straight into the PL and there's a couple of PL clubs and a few Championship clubs who would have strenuous objections to that.

    If Celtic and Rangers want to join the English football system let them apply for membership of the National League.
    EPL teams would brick it , they would be scared of a good thrashing from Old Firm. Unfortunately we see their boring matches up here, most would struggle against the Old Firm.
    The harsh light of day for football is that there are too many professional clubs competing for too few fans. If teams were happy playing in the Vanarama league then that wouldn't be a problem. But money corrupts and they all want to be MASSIVE.

    Growing up in Rochdale we had a team. As did Oldham. Bury. Bolton. Wigan. And every other small town in Lancashire. Small teams dream big - which is great! Its when they think they actually are big that we have a problem. My brother is an Oldham fan, and a few seasons in the top flight started a "lets spend" trend which after a succession of crap owners now has the brink of folding like Bury did. Blackburn built a massive stadium that they could only fill if the whole town paid to watch. Its genuinely absurd - so I can understand why owners looked at somewhere like Milton Keynes and said "lets move" even though it was a disaster from a fans perspective.

    Add in big teams from Scotland and all that will happen is that teams on both sides of the border will fold. Doesn't bother me, but would the fans who think that every club has the right to exist regardless of finance or sanity. They don't.
    I used to watch Rochdale quite regularly at one time. My late (and then prospective) father-in-law was a regular, so going with him was means of currying favour.
    Also I quite enjoyed it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    Cardiff and Swansea play in the English league system. They used to enter the Welsh Cup as a way to qualify for the Cup Winners’ Cup (European police forces loved that!).

    That’s the big downside for the old firm. Europe only on merit.
    The other thing is sporting merit, having made a big hoo ha about how sporting merit needs to be honoured there's no way the PL would let the Old Firm straight into the PL and there's a couple of PL clubs and a few Championship clubs who would have strenuous objections to that.

    If Celtic and Rangers want to join the English football system let them apply for membership of the National League.
    EPL teams would brick it , they would be scared of a good thrashing from Old Firm. Unfortunately we see their boring matches up here, most would struggle against the Old Firm.
    Weirdly, when they have met English teams in the Champions League that is not the way that it has gone. Scottish football has been destroyed by the power and money of the EPL. Before that Andy Robertson might still have been a full back for Dundee United, as the great Maurice Malpas was before him and Virgil Van Dyke might have stuck around at Celtic.

    The Old firm would have the potential to become big clubs in the EPL but it would be a long and painful journey as they tried to catch up the purchasing power of their rivals.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388

    Leon said:

    BORIS IS ALLAH. BORIS SAVED FOOTBALL

    🚨⚽️ | NEW: The six Premier League clubs who were in the Super League were “stunned by the speed and force of the prime minister’s reaction”

    Via @thetimes

    There's an assumption that the promised "fan-led review" of football will be a non-event. But I wonder.

    I've noted before of Johnson that, when Mayor, he did have a significant success in improving cycle lane infrastructure, which happened because he gave the job to someone (Gilligan) who ended up being determined and capable.

    That's the pattern that he repeated with the Vaccine Taskforce.

    The review into football is an opportunity to do this again. Has anyone been given the job of organising it?
    Tracey Crouch
    Even this Labour supporter (me) thinks she's a very good choice to lead the football review.
  • Leon said:

    BORIS IS ALLAH. BORIS SAVED FOOTBALL

    🚨⚽️ | NEW: The six Premier League clubs who were in the Super League were “stunned by the speed and force of the prime minister’s reaction”

    Via @thetimes

    There's an assumption that the promised "fan-led review" of football will be a non-event. But I wonder.

    I've noted before of Johnson that, when Mayor, he did have a significant success in improving cycle lane infrastructure, which happened because he gave the job to someone (Gilligan) who ended up being determined and capable.

    That's the pattern that he repeated with the Vaccine Taskforce.

    The review into football is an opportunity to do this again. Has anyone been given the job of organising it?
    Tracey Crouch
    Even this Labour supporter (me) thinks she's a very good choice to lead the football review.
    She's a terrible choice, she has really poor judgment, I mean she's a fan of Spurs, what does she know about football?

    (I'm glad she's been appointed, she's had a tough few years, and I'm glad she's getting better.)
  • tlg86 said:
    That could have been from 2005

    We (Man Utd supporters) have always wanted the Glaziers out and hopefully this idiotic idea from them may hasten the end of their involvement with the club'

    They are not wanted and it says it all when Joel Glazier had not been heard in public from 2005 until his grovelling apology yesterday

    Just go
    We only get shut of Joel et al by disqualifying them from being a fit and proper owner. The FA can't just say "all is forgiven" because fan power kyboshed the ESL proposal. They need to be removed from office for bringing football into disrepute.
    I agree but their dream of untold riches has just come crashing down and either HMG must legislate or they need to sell out and go
  • HYUFD said:


    Look, we Tories won a majority of 80 in the UK in the Commons in 2019 and under our constitution what a UK government with a majority in the Commons wants goes until the next general election.

    It does not matter what happens at Holyrood next month

    Snipped right there. We English are in power. It doesn't matter what you Scotch want to do, we rule you.

    This is literally why independence is sadly inevitable. Dripping English arrogance and ignorance and disregard for basic principles of democracy.

  • This is why Boris Johnson needs sacking.

    4.8% of arrivals from India tested positive for Covid (bear in mind there (still is) no hotel quarantine for arrivals from India)

    That's a huge proportion.

    I wonder what this figure is from other countries.

    https://twitter.com/Dr_D_Robertson/status/1384933270048100354
  • malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    Cardiff and Swansea play in the English league system. They used to enter the Welsh Cup as a way to qualify for the Cup Winners’ Cup (European police forces loved that!).

    That’s the big downside for the old firm. Europe only on merit.
    The other thing is sporting merit, having made a big hoo ha about how sporting merit needs to be honoured there's no way the PL would let the Old Firm straight into the PL and there's a couple of PL clubs and a few Championship clubs who would have strenuous objections to that.

    If Celtic and Rangers want to join the English football system let them apply for membership of the National League.
    EPL teams would brick it , they would be scared of a good thrashing from Old Firm. Unfortunately we see their boring matches up here, most would struggle against the Old Firm.
    The harsh light of day for football is that there are too many professional clubs competing for too few fans. If teams were happy playing in the Vanarama league then that wouldn't be a problem. But money corrupts and they all want to be MASSIVE.

    Growing up in Rochdale we had a team. As did Oldham. Bury. Bolton. Wigan. And every other small town in Lancashire. Small teams dream big - which is great! Its when they think they actually are big that we have a problem. My brother is an Oldham fan, and a few seasons in the top flight started a "lets spend" trend which after a succession of crap owners now has the brink of folding like Bury did. Blackburn built a massive stadium that they could only fill if the whole town paid to watch. Its genuinely absurd - so I can understand why owners looked at somewhere like Milton Keynes and said "lets move" even though it was a disaster from a fans perspective.

    Add in big teams from Scotland and all that will happen is that teams on both sides of the border will fold. Doesn't bother me, but would the fans who think that every club has the right to exist regardless of finance or sanity. They don't.
    I used to watch Rochdale quite regularly at one time. My late (and then prospective) father-in-law was a regular, so going with him was means of currying favour.
    Also I quite enjoyed it.
    My first ever football match was Rochdale beating Wolves in the 4th Division. Which perfectly demonstrates why the league system works.

    The point though is that a club like Rochdale can only expect to gain fans in Rochdale, as all the neighbouring towns also have professional clubs never mind the two Manchester sides. Providing that a club is run on that financial basis - and Dale are - then all is well. If they get carried away - Oldham - or bought by a lunatic - Oldham and Bury - they are in trouble.
  • malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Boris should use the present ‘enormous goodwill’ from UEFA/FIFA to England, for saving football (see The Times, today) to unite the structures of English and Scottish league football, so the Old Firm can play in the British Prem, and Scotland League 1 feeds in like the English Championship.

    This saves Scottish fitba, produces some cracking matches - Celtic-Liverpool!! - reinforces Britishness and UEFA/FIFA are, right now, so grateful to English football they would agree to keeping the four home nations as is. All playing and voting individually

    Go for it, Boris.

    The issue with that, is by uniting the leagues of England and Scotland, one diminishes their status as separate nations under UEFA and FIFA. There's a lot of grandfather rights that currently allows the UK to enter four teams in international competitions.
    Cardiff and Swansea play in the English league system. They used to enter the Welsh Cup as a way to qualify for the Cup Winners’ Cup (European police forces loved that!).

    That’s the big downside for the old firm. Europe only on merit.
    The other thing is sporting merit, having made a big hoo ha about how sporting merit needs to be honoured there's no way the PL would let the Old Firm straight into the PL and there's a couple of PL clubs and a few Championship clubs who would have strenuous objections to that.

    If Celtic and Rangers want to join the English football system let them apply for membership of the National League.
    EPL teams would brick it , they would be scared of a good thrashing from Old Firm. Unfortunately we see their boring matches up here, most would struggle against the Old Firm.
    The harsh light of day for football is that there are too many professional clubs competing for too few fans. If teams were happy playing in the Vanarama league then that wouldn't be a problem. But money corrupts and they all want to be MASSIVE.

    Growing up in Rochdale we had a team. As did Oldham. Bury. Bolton. Wigan. And every other small town in Lancashire. Small teams dream big - which is great! Its when they think they actually are big that we have a problem. My brother is an Oldham fan, and a few seasons in the top flight started a "lets spend" trend which after a succession of crap owners now has the brink of folding like Bury did. Blackburn built a massive stadium that they could only fill if the whole town paid to watch. Its genuinely absurd - so I can understand why owners looked at somewhere like Milton Keynes and said "lets move" even though it was a disaster from a fans perspective.

    Add in big teams from Scotland and all that will happen is that teams on both sides of the border will fold. Doesn't bother me, but would the fans who think that every club has the right to exist regardless of finance or sanity. They don't.
    I used to watch Rochdale quite regularly at one time. My late (and then prospective) father-in-law was a regular, so going with him was means of currying favour.
    Also I quite enjoyed it.
    My Aunt and family used to live opposite Gracie Fields in Rochdale
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388

    Leon said:

    BORIS IS ALLAH. BORIS SAVED FOOTBALL

    🚨⚽️ | NEW: The six Premier League clubs who were in the Super League were “stunned by the speed and force of the prime minister’s reaction”

    Via @thetimes

    There's an assumption that the promised "fan-led review" of football will be a non-event. But I wonder.

    I've noted before of Johnson that, when Mayor, he did have a significant success in improving cycle lane infrastructure, which happened because he gave the job to someone (Gilligan) who ended up being determined and capable.

    That's the pattern that he repeated with the Vaccine Taskforce.

    The review into football is an opportunity to do this again. Has anyone been given the job of organising it?
    Tracey Crouch
    Even this Labour supporter (me) thinks she's a very good choice to lead the football review.
    She's a terrible choice, she has really poor judgment, I mean she's a fan of Spurs, what does she know about football?

    (I'm glad she's been appointed, she's had a tough few years, and I'm glad she's getting better.)
    I didn't know the Spurs bit. Changed my mind. Dreadful choice.
  • tlg86 said:
    That could have been from 2005

    We (Man Utd supporters) have always wanted the Glaziers out and hopefully this idiotic idea from them may hasten the end of their involvement with the club'

    They are not wanted and it says it all when Joel Glazier had not been heard in public from 2005 until his grovelling apology yesterday

    Just go
    We only get shut of Joel et al by disqualifying them from being a fit and proper owner. The FA can't just say "all is forgiven" because fan power kyboshed the ESL proposal. They need to be removed from office for bringing football into disrepute.
    I agree but their dream of untold riches has just come crashing down and either HMG must legislate or they need to sell out and go
    HMG will not legislate because they cannot legislate. The precedent it would set would be rather uncomfortable for the Conservative Party and its patrons. "I WILL STOP THIS" was the usual baseless Boris hot air.

    What needs to happen is the FA growing a pair. It sets the rules. Fit and Proper persons is already a rule. It needs to be applied. If you intended to break Football within our jurisdiction you are not a fit person to own a club within our jurisdiction.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098

    HYUFD said:


    Look, we Tories won a majority of 80 in the UK in the Commons in 2019 and under our constitution what a UK government with a majority in the Commons wants goes until the next general election.

    It does not matter what happens at Holyrood next month

    Snipped right there. We English are in power. It doesn't matter what you Scotch want to do, we rule you.

    This is literally why independence is sadly inevitable. Dripping English arrogance and ignorance and disregard for basic principles of democracy.

    Wrong, England does not always get its own way. In 1950, 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory but got a UK Labour government thanks to Scottish and Welsh Labour MPs.

    On current polling the only way Starmer becomes UK PM in 2024 is with the support of Scottish SNP MPs and Welsh Labour MPs, England will almost certainly have a Tory majority still.

    So it is not the case England always gets its own way in the UK (England does not even have its own Parliament unlike every other Home Nation), it is the case however that the UK government with a majority in the Commons always gets its own way.

    Until 2024 that UK government with a majority in the Commons is a Tory one and it will decide until then and has made clear 2014 was a once in a generation vote when 55% of Scots voted to stay in the UK then
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    This is why Boris Johnson needs sacking.

    4.8% of arrivals from India tested positive for Covid (bear in mind there (still is) no hotel quarantine for arrivals from India)

    That's a huge proportion.

    I wonder what this figure is from other countries.

    https://twitter.com/Dr_D_Robertson/status/1384933270048100354

    I wonder if that can be seen as a decent sample of India in general (i.e. 5% have it right now)?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    malcolmg said:



    Stick your Britishness where the sun does not shine

    This would be a great and possibly winning slogan for the now inevitable Indyref2. 💪🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Look, we Tories won a majority of 80 in the UK in the Commons in 2019 and under our constitution what a UK government with a majority in the Commons wants goes until the next general election.

    It does not matter what happens at Holyrood next month

    Snipped right there. We English are in power. It doesn't matter what you Scotch want to do, we rule you.

    This is literally why independence is sadly inevitable. Dripping English arrogance and ignorance and disregard for basic principles of democracy.

    Wrong, England does not always get its own way. In 1950, 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory but got a UK Labour government thanks to Scottish and Welsh Labour MPs.

    On current polling the only way Starmer becomes UK PM in 2024 is with the support of Scottish SNP MPs and Welsh Labour MPs, England will almost certainly have a Tory majority still.

    So it is not the case England always gets its own way in the UK (England does not even have its own Parliament unlike every other Home Nation), it is the case however that the UK government with a majority in the Commons always gets its own way.

    Until 2024 that UK government with a majority in the Commons is a Tory one and it will decide until then and has made clear 2014 was a once in a generation vote when 55% of Scots voted to stay in the UK then
    This isn't about governance. This is about the union. If Scotland cannot vote to challenge its place in the union without the agreement of England then the union is no longer based on consent. It becomes impossible for Scotland to leave or renegotiate the terms of union - it is beholden to England. Instead of a mutual union it is annexation.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,801
    Mr. Eagles, aye, he's a moron, and this was a stupid approach to travel over a year ago. It's indefensibly stupid now.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,221
    I thought that Australian politics were supposed to be famously robust.

    Have they all suddenly turned into Violet Elizabeth?
This discussion has been closed.