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Johnny Mercer has given so much ammunition to critics of Boris Johnson – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,167
edited April 2021 in General
Johnny Mercer has given so much ammunition to critics of Boris Johnson – politicalbetting.com

Johnny Mercer, former defence minister, tells @tnewtondunn that ''almost nobody tells the truth'' in this government and that it's the "most distrustful, awful environment I've ever worked in government".Listen ? https://t.co/50SQDjPybb@JPonpolitics | @JohnnyMercerUK pic.twitter.com/d9IfP6F1QZ

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Comments

  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    First like Jonny Mercer's exit this year......
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    I have argued before that Boris's hold on his MPs is pretty fragile - he didnt win a thumping proportion of MPs in the leadership vote of Summer 2019 (seems a long time ago now ... As Mrs T & Mrs May would testify - Tory MPs are fickle with their loyalty and for me his departure has just inched a teeny bit closer.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,100
    edited April 2021
    As long as Boris is popular and delivering to the red wall he is safe but if that unwinds then expect the party to take action.

    However, I do not see it on the horizon yet

    Indeed for everything being thrown at him on sleaze he just seems to be teflon coated

    And on interesting news from last night Independence seems to be on the slide

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1384997052468301826?s=19
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited April 2021
    Third. What use is a defence minister with such appalling timing, anyway?

    Although he has lifted the lid on what some in PB suspect and others in PB are determined to ignore.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    First like Jonny Mercer's exit this year......

    Doesn’t he have form for high profile sulky tantrums?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    One in five government Covid contracts awarded between February and November 2020 contained one or more red flags for possible corruption and require urgent further investigation, a respected campaign group has warned.

    Transparency International UK said a “seriously flawed” arrangement, whereby companies bidding for contracts were prioritised if they were referred into a “VIP lane” by their political connections, had “damaged trust in the integrity of the pandemic response”.

    The group said Boris Johnson’s government must urgently disclose the identities of companies awarded public money through the VIP lane, which was set up by the Cabinet Office and the Department of Health and Social Care in the early days of the pandemic.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    As long as Boris is popular and delivering to the red wall he is safe but if that unwinds then expect the party to take action.

    However, I do not see it on the horizon yet

    Indeed for everything being thrown at him on sleaze he just seems to be teflon coated

    And on interesting news from last night Independence seems to be on the slide

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1384997052468301826?s=19

    Technically it looks like opposition is in the rise vs support on the slide 😁
  • Charles said:

    As long as Boris is popular and delivering to the red wall he is safe but if that unwinds then expect the party to take action.

    However, I do not see it on the horizon yet

    Indeed for everything being thrown at him on sleaze he just seems to be teflon coated

    And on interesting news from last night Independence seems to be on the slide

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1384997052468301826?s=19

    Technically it looks like opposition is in the rise vs support on the slide 😁
    Maybe don't knows breaking no
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    2 years ago...

    On last night’s @Peston show. I’m not good enough to be PM yet. I’ll be with @BorisJohnson, campaigning together, trying to unite the party and the Nation, and govern from the centre in a modern, compassionate, optimistic manner 🇬🇧👇 https://twitter.com/JohnnyMercerUK/status/1131470315748495360/video/1
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Britain risks destroying trust with Australia as it tries to secure a post-Brexit trade deal, after the UK trade secretary’s allies were accused of launching an “unprovoked attack” on her counterpart on the eve of talks in London.

    Trade experts said the reported comments about the Australian trade minister, Dan Tehan, by allies of Liz Truss were “bizarre” and “an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations”.

    The Australian government opted not to return fire on the undiplomatic comments on Wednesday, with Tehan declining to respond.

    But Dr Jeffrey Wilson, the research director of the Perth USAsia Centre at the University of Western Australia, said the reported remarks would “damage trust between the ministers, which is essential if they are to work together to direct and shape the progress of the negotiating teams”.

    “This ‘backgrounding’ – which includes unprovoked ad hominem directed against the Australian trade minister – is bizarre,” Wilson told the Guardian.

    “In nearly 20 years working on trade negotiations, I have never seen personal attacks deployed as a negotiating tactic. It is an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations.”
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    Massive leak from passport brokerage firm reveals super rich buying EU passports after less than three weeks in Malta.

    Thanks to @mcaruanagalizia and the @daphnefdtn who obtained the leak and shared it with the Guardian and others.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/22/revealed-residency-loophole-in-malta-cash-for-passports-scheme?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595
    Alien Vs Predator: Daily Mail sueing Google over search results.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56828173

    The example given in their complaint, is that the search engine deliberately made it difficult to find Piers Morgan's columns on the ex-royal story of a few weeks ago, instead referring people to many other secondary sources of Morgan's words.

    Great news for the lawyers, if not for the rest of us.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    Sandpit said:

    Alien Vs Predator: Daily Mail sueing Google over search results.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56828173

    The example given in their complaint, is that the search engine deliberately made it difficult to find Piers Morgan's columns on the ex-royal story of a few weeks ago, instead referring people to many other secondary sources of Morgan's words.

    Great news for the lawyers, if not for the rest of us.

    Well it is in Count Binface's London Mayor manifesto to achieve zero emissions from Piers Morgan by 2030
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Sandpit said:

    Alien Vs Predator: Daily Mail sueing Google over search results.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56828173

    The example given in their complaint, is that the search engine deliberately made it difficult to find Piers Morgan's columns on the ex-royal story of a few weeks ago, instead referring people to many other secondary sources of Morgan's words.

    Great news for the lawyers, if not for the rest of us.

    Really? I would have said anything that protected us from accidental exposure to the words of Piers Morgan was A Good Thing, personally.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    IanB2 said:

    Britain risks destroying trust with Australia as it tries to secure a post-Brexit trade deal, after the UK trade secretary’s allies were accused of launching an “unprovoked attack” on her counterpart on the eve of talks in London.

    Trade experts said the reported comments about the Australian trade minister, Dan Tehan, by allies of Liz Truss were “bizarre” and “an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations”.

    The Australian government opted not to return fire on the undiplomatic comments on Wednesday, with Tehan declining to respond.

    But Dr Jeffrey Wilson, the research director of the Perth USAsia Centre at the University of Western Australia, said the reported remarks would “damage trust between the ministers, which is essential if they are to work together to direct and shape the progress of the negotiating teams”.

    “This ‘backgrounding’ – which includes unprovoked ad hominem directed against the Australian trade minister – is bizarre,” Wilson told the Guardian.

    “In nearly 20 years working on trade negotiations, I have never seen personal attacks deployed as a negotiating tactic. It is an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations.”

    What is the attack? The quotes in the article are he’s a bit slow to move so we are going to put him in an uncomfortable chair.

    Pathetic and childish perhaps but hardly an “unprovoked attack”
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    West Midlands Mayor voting intention (full details):

    [First round]
    Street (CON): 45% (+3)
    Byrne (LAB): 38% (-3)
    Caudwell (GRN): 8% (+3)
    Wilkinson (LD): 4% (-2)

    [Second round]
    Street (CON): 52% (+2)
    Byrne (LAB): 48% (-2)

    Saw this on the previous thread. Obviously still quite close but slightly ahead of the final performance last time. Overall seems broadly in line with current polling with maybe the WM slightly trending further to the blues.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,448
    edited April 2021
    Good morning everyone. Bright and sunny again and Mrs Bluebird was in and out of the nest box a couple of times, turning her eggs, while I made my first coffee.

    Ed: FFS.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Sandpit said:

    Alien Vs Predator: Daily Mail sueing Google over search results.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56828173

    The example given in their complaint, is that the search engine deliberately made it difficult to find Piers Morgan's columns on the ex-royal story of a few weeks ago, instead referring people to many other secondary sources of Morgan's words.

    Great news for the lawyers, if not for the rest of us.

    Well it is in Count Binface's London Mayor manifesto to achieve zero emissions from Piers Morgan by 2030
    It’s tempting to move to London just to have the chance to vote for that.

    And I detest London.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    I'm not so sure because Mercer has been outspoken before.

    But, he could become the new Sarah Woolaston and a media darling.
  • The problem with the Mercer attack is that he is the first person from inside the Johnson "cesspit" to stop talking about the PM's splendid lie-proof clothes and instead point out that he can see his cock.

    Boris Johnson is a proven liar, so it shouldn't shock anyone that one of his own ministers has quit because one of his pledges was yet another lie. Why it could matter is what the lie was about. In the red wall the armed forces and patriotism are pretty popular.

    Not only is it foolhardy to make pledges to protect veterans that turn out to be yet another lie, it really is to do so about NI. People seem to not have noticed that the PM has cast NI adrift from the UK. They will eventually, and reminding people of the debt of honour that UK governments owe to our "brave boys" who fought a long conflict over there to defend UK interests.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,708

    Sandpit said:

    Alien Vs Predator: Daily Mail sueing Google over search results.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56828173

    The example given in their complaint, is that the search engine deliberately made it difficult to find Piers Morgan's columns on the ex-royal story of a few weeks ago, instead referring people to many other secondary sources of Morgan's words.

    Great news for the lawyers, if not for the rest of us.

    Well it is in Count Binface's London Mayor manifesto to achieve zero emissions from Piers Morgan by 2030
    Ladbroke have a matchbet of 6.5 for Binface to beat Fox.

    Free money when he comes out with policies like these!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Sandpit said:

    Alien Vs Predator: Daily Mail sueing Google over search results.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56828173

    The example given in their complaint, is that the search engine deliberately made it difficult to find Piers Morgan's columns on the ex-royal story of a few weeks ago, instead referring people to many other secondary sources of Morgan's words.

    Great news for the lawyers, if not for the rest of us.

    I don't think the Mail will get very far with it but it's an open secret that Google use algorithms to manipulate their search results based on their business model.

    Why wouldn't they?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    NHS nurses get a pay cut – while a chum of the Prime Minister gets a tax break.

    Boris Johnson must appear before the Liaison Committee immediately - and there should be a thorough investigation into his conduct.
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-21/labour-demands-probe-into-johnsons-conduct-in-cronyism-row
  • Sandpit said:

    Alien Vs Predator: Daily Mail sueing Google over search results.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56828173

    The example given in their complaint, is that the search engine deliberately made it difficult to find Piers Morgan's columns on the ex-royal story of a few weeks ago, instead referring people to many other secondary sources of Morgan's words.

    Great news for the lawyers, if not for the rest of us.

    I don't think the Mail will get very far with it but it's an open secret that Google use algorithms to manipulate their search results based on their business model.

    Why wouldn't they?
    Other search engines are available. As with all things on the open market if Google faff with their algorithms too much and make it silly, punters will jump ship. As they can to other news sites that aren't the Daily Heil.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Britain risks destroying trust with Australia as it tries to secure a post-Brexit trade deal, after the UK trade secretary’s allies were accused of launching an “unprovoked attack” on her counterpart on the eve of talks in London.

    Trade experts said the reported comments about the Australian trade minister, Dan Tehan, by allies of Liz Truss were “bizarre” and “an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations”.

    The Australian government opted not to return fire on the undiplomatic comments on Wednesday, with Tehan declining to respond.

    But Dr Jeffrey Wilson, the research director of the Perth USAsia Centre at the University of Western Australia, said the reported remarks would “damage trust between the ministers, which is essential if they are to work together to direct and shape the progress of the negotiating teams”.

    “This ‘backgrounding’ – which includes unprovoked ad hominem directed against the Australian trade minister – is bizarre,” Wilson told the Guardian.

    “In nearly 20 years working on trade negotiations, I have never seen personal attacks deployed as a negotiating tactic. It is an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations.”

    What is the attack? The quotes in the article are he’s a bit slow to move so we are going to put him in an uncomfortable chair.

    Pathetic and childish perhaps but hardly an “unprovoked attack”
    It sounds like frustration from Liz Truss and her team that her Australian opposite can't or won't move as fast as she does.

    I understand a UK trade deal with New Zealand is imminent.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Sandpit said:

    Alien Vs Predator: Daily Mail sueing Google over search results.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56828173

    The example given in their complaint, is that the search engine deliberately made it difficult to find Piers Morgan's columns on the ex-royal story of a few weeks ago, instead referring people to many other secondary sources of Morgan's words.

    Great news for the lawyers, if not for the rest of us.

    I don't think the Mail will get very far with it but it's an open secret that Google use algorithms to manipulate their search results based on their business model.

    Why wouldn't they?
    There is a case that Google should be regulated as a utility.

    Effectively they can destroy other businesses if they resist their fees and charges
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    I'm not so sure because Mercer has been outspoken before.

    But, he could become the new Sarah Woolaston and a media darling.

    Hard to see how he continues to sit with the Tories led by the clown, after this
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Britain risks destroying trust with Australia as it tries to secure a post-Brexit trade deal, after the UK trade secretary’s allies were accused of launching an “unprovoked attack” on her counterpart on the eve of talks in London.

    Trade experts said the reported comments about the Australian trade minister, Dan Tehan, by allies of Liz Truss were “bizarre” and “an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations”.

    The Australian government opted not to return fire on the undiplomatic comments on Wednesday, with Tehan declining to respond.

    But Dr Jeffrey Wilson, the research director of the Perth USAsia Centre at the University of Western Australia, said the reported remarks would “damage trust between the ministers, which is essential if they are to work together to direct and shape the progress of the negotiating teams”.

    “This ‘backgrounding’ – which includes unprovoked ad hominem directed against the Australian trade minister – is bizarre,” Wilson told the Guardian.

    “In nearly 20 years working on trade negotiations, I have never seen personal attacks deployed as a negotiating tactic. It is an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations.”

    What is the attack? The quotes in the article are he’s a bit slow to move so we are going to put him in an uncomfortable chair.

    Pathetic and childish perhaps but hardly an “unprovoked attack”
    It sounds like frustration from Liz Truss and her team that her Australian opposite can't or won't move as fast as she does.

    I understand a UK trade deal with New Zealand is imminent.
    Yes. The guardian did find a quote from “farmers weekly” saying that New Zealand farmers were on the look out for “dirty tricks”
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Sandpit said:

    Alien Vs Predator: Daily Mail sueing Google over search results.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56828173

    The example given in their complaint, is that the search engine deliberately made it difficult to find Piers Morgan's columns on the ex-royal story of a few weeks ago, instead referring people to many other secondary sources of Morgan's words.

    Great news for the lawyers, if not for the rest of us.

    I don't think the Mail will get very far with it but it's an open secret that Google use algorithms to manipulate their search results based on their business model.

    Why wouldn't they?
    Other search engines are available. As with all things on the open market if Google faff with their algorithms too much and make it silly, punters will jump ship. As they can to other news sites that aren't the Daily Heil.
    Which ones?

    Google have virtually all the market. I have to actively think hard to remember Yahoo and Bing - and I'd have to research any others.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,708
    IanB2 said:

    I'm not so sure because Mercer has been outspoken before.

    But, he could become the new Sarah Woolaston and a media darling.

    Hard to see how he continues to sit with the Tories led by the clown, after this
    Is his problem that British soldiers are no longer able to go a Imperial on other countries citizens with impunity?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    This will go down well... I’d call it “overreach”... white bread, butter, jam, sugar, chocolate all on the naughty list

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9497923/British-diet-white-bread-butter-chocolate-sending-early-grave-researchers-say.html
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Sandpit said:

    Alien Vs Predator: Daily Mail sueing Google over search results.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56828173

    The example given in their complaint, is that the search engine deliberately made it difficult to find Piers Morgan's columns on the ex-royal story of a few weeks ago, instead referring people to many other secondary sources of Morgan's words.

    Great news for the lawyers, if not for the rest of us.

    I don't think the Mail will get very far with it but it's an open secret that Google use algorithms to manipulate their search results based on their business model.

    Why wouldn't they?
    Other search engines are available. As with all things on the open market if Google faff with their algorithms too much and make it silly, punters will jump ship. As they can to other news sites that aren't the Daily Heil.
    Which ones?

    Google have virtually all the market. I have to actively think hard to remember Yahoo and Bing - and I'd have to research any others.
    I use yahoo out of habit, and my PC seems to like taking me to bing
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    Charles said:

    This will go down well... I’d call it “overreach”... white bread, butter, jam, sugar, chocolate all on the naughty list

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9497923/British-diet-white-bread-butter-chocolate-sending-early-grave-researchers-say.html

    Surely starvation is also bad for you. I mean, what's left?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Charles said:

    This will go down well... I’d call it “overreach”... white bread, butter, jam, sugar, chocolate all on the naughty list

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9497923/British-diet-white-bread-butter-chocolate-sending-early-grave-researchers-say.html

    The Guardian’s journalism isn’t good enough for you, so you thought you’d treat us to something from a real newspaper?

    There’s nothing that is new in that study, and the value of the research is undermined entirely by the closing sentences of the article.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    This will go down well... I’d call it “overreach”... white bread, butter, jam, sugar, chocolate all on the naughty list

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9497923/British-diet-white-bread-butter-chocolate-sending-early-grave-researchers-say.html

    Surely starvation is also bad for you. I mean, what's left?
    Lentils and tofu
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,346

    As long as Boris is popular and delivering to the red wall he is safe but if that unwinds then expect the party to take action.

    However, I do not see it on the horizon yet

    Indeed for everything being thrown at him on sleaze he just seems to be teflon coated

    And on interesting news from last night Independence seems to be on the slide

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1384997052468301826?s=19

    Yes one poll out of 20+ , must be true right enough, next you will be saying that Johnson is honest and trustworthy
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    IanB2 said:

    One in five government Covid contracts awarded between February and November 2020 contained one or more red flags for possible corruption and require urgent further investigation, a respected campaign group has warned.

    Transparency International UK said a “seriously flawed” arrangement, whereby companies bidding for contracts were prioritised if they were referred into a “VIP lane” by their political connections, had “damaged trust in the integrity of the pandemic response”.

    The group said Boris Johnson’s government must urgently disclose the identities of companies awarded public money through the VIP lane, which was set up by the Cabinet Office and the Department of Health and Social Care in the early days of the pandemic.

    Whilst I would be seriously concerned from July onwards, frankly normal processes were abandoned at the beginning of the pandemic, and the government was open regarding this VIp route and using contacts to deliver. Whilst that would anger the normal Boris haters, most people just wanted to see action.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited April 2021
    IanB2 said:

    Charles said:

    This will go down well... I’d call it “overreach”... white bread, butter, jam, sugar, chocolate all on the naughty list

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9497923/British-diet-white-bread-butter-chocolate-sending-early-grave-researchers-say.html

    The Guardian’s journalism isn’t good enough for you, so you thought you’d treat us to something from a real newspaper?

    There’s nothing that is new in that study, and the value of the research is undermined entirely by the closing sentences of the article.
    I didn’t even bother to read the article, so congratulations on that ... I do admire the skill of the Mail headline writers though 😂

    Edit: having read it now the research is worth less than zero. But the Mail still created a dramatic headline... masters of the art
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,531
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Britain risks destroying trust with Australia as it tries to secure a post-Brexit trade deal, after the UK trade secretary’s allies were accused of launching an “unprovoked attack” on her counterpart on the eve of talks in London.

    Trade experts said the reported comments about the Australian trade minister, Dan Tehan, by allies of Liz Truss were “bizarre” and “an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations”.

    The Australian government opted not to return fire on the undiplomatic comments on Wednesday, with Tehan declining to respond.

    But Dr Jeffrey Wilson, the research director of the Perth USAsia Centre at the University of Western Australia, said the reported remarks would “damage trust between the ministers, which is essential if they are to work together to direct and shape the progress of the negotiating teams”.

    “This ‘backgrounding’ – which includes unprovoked ad hominem directed against the Australian trade minister – is bizarre,” Wilson told the Guardian.

    “In nearly 20 years working on trade negotiations, I have never seen personal attacks deployed as a negotiating tactic. It is an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations.”

    What is the attack? The quotes in the article are he’s a bit slow to move so we are going to put him in an uncomfortable chair.

    Pathetic and childish perhaps but hardly an “unprovoked attack”
    It sounds like frustration from Liz Truss and her team that her Australian opposite can't or won't move as fast as she does.

    I understand a UK trade deal with New Zealand is imminent.
    Yes. The guardian did find a quote from “farmers weekly” saying that New Zealand farmers were on the look out for “dirty tricks”
    From an animal welfare and farming perspective, a curious feature of the NZ negotiations is that their welfare standards are on the whole higher than ours - unlike the US or Australia. So Ministers accustomed to defending the charge that a trade deal will open up British shops to low-welfare imports are instead having to cope with pressure to accept levelling up to NZ standards as a condition for tariff-free trade.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,448
    I posted yesterday that our PM is widely held to be a rogue, but for many people a lovable one. Once the 'lovable' goes his fall may well be swift, long and hard.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,346

    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Britain risks destroying trust with Australia as it tries to secure a post-Brexit trade deal, after the UK trade secretary’s allies were accused of launching an “unprovoked attack” on her counterpart on the eve of talks in London.

    Trade experts said the reported comments about the Australian trade minister, Dan Tehan, by allies of Liz Truss were “bizarre” and “an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations”.

    The Australian government opted not to return fire on the undiplomatic comments on Wednesday, with Tehan declining to respond.

    But Dr Jeffrey Wilson, the research director of the Perth USAsia Centre at the University of Western Australia, said the reported remarks would “damage trust between the ministers, which is essential if they are to work together to direct and shape the progress of the negotiating teams”.

    “This ‘backgrounding’ – which includes unprovoked ad hominem directed against the Australian trade minister – is bizarre,” Wilson told the Guardian.

    “In nearly 20 years working on trade negotiations, I have never seen personal attacks deployed as a negotiating tactic. It is an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations.”

    What is the attack? The quotes in the article are he’s a bit slow to move so we are going to put him in an uncomfortable chair.

    Pathetic and childish perhaps but hardly an “unprovoked attack”
    It sounds like frustration from Liz Truss and her team that her Australian opposite can't or won't move as fast as she does.

    I understand a UK trade deal with New Zealand is imminent.
    Sounds like first "REAL" trade deal and she is getting nowhere. The Australians don't need to lick butt. She is useless and there is little to nothing in it for them, it is UK that is desperate. I expect a polished turd as usual from Truss , embellished with many lies.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,800
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Charles, they can sod off if they think I'm not eating chocolate any more.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Britain risks destroying trust with Australia as it tries to secure a post-Brexit trade deal, after the UK trade secretary’s allies were accused of launching an “unprovoked attack” on her counterpart on the eve of talks in London.

    Trade experts said the reported comments about the Australian trade minister, Dan Tehan, by allies of Liz Truss were “bizarre” and “an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations”.

    The Australian government opted not to return fire on the undiplomatic comments on Wednesday, with Tehan declining to respond.

    But Dr Jeffrey Wilson, the research director of the Perth USAsia Centre at the University of Western Australia, said the reported remarks would “damage trust between the ministers, which is essential if they are to work together to direct and shape the progress of the negotiating teams”.

    “This ‘backgrounding’ – which includes unprovoked ad hominem directed against the Australian trade minister – is bizarre,” Wilson told the Guardian.

    “In nearly 20 years working on trade negotiations, I have never seen personal attacks deployed as a negotiating tactic. It is an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations.”

    What is the attack? The quotes in the article are he’s a bit slow to move so we are going to put him in an uncomfortable chair.

    Pathetic and childish perhaps but hardly an “unprovoked attack”
    It sounds like frustration from Liz Truss and her team that her Australian opposite can't or won't move as fast as she does.

    I understand a UK trade deal with New Zealand is imminent.
    Yes. The guardian did find a quote from “farmers weekly” saying that New Zealand farmers were on the look out for “dirty tricks”
    From an animal welfare and farming perspective, a curious feature of the NZ negotiations is that their welfare standards are on the whole higher than ours - unlike the US or Australia. So Ministers accustomed to defending the charge that a trade deal will open up British shops to low-welfare imports are instead having to cope with pressure to accept levelling up to NZ standards as a condition for tariff-free trade.
    I can quite believe that. It just amused me that the article said “a trade deal is close” and then went scurrying off to a regional New Zealand industry website to get an attack quote
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Charles, they can sod off if they think I'm not eating chocolate any more.

    A Mars a day keeps the doctor away?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,346
    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    One in five government Covid contracts awarded between February and November 2020 contained one or more red flags for possible corruption and require urgent further investigation, a respected campaign group has warned.

    Transparency International UK said a “seriously flawed” arrangement, whereby companies bidding for contracts were prioritised if they were referred into a “VIP lane” by their political connections, had “damaged trust in the integrity of the pandemic response”.

    The group said Boris Johnson’s government must urgently disclose the identities of companies awarded public money through the VIP lane, which was set up by the Cabinet Office and the Department of Health and Social Care in the early days of the pandemic.

    That’s just a criticism of the “VIP lane” (which I have no view on)

    But it will be reported as 1/5 “potentially corrupt” or something which is unhelpful because if you devalue the term “corruption” in the public mind the really bad stuff will skip past without people caring
    No surprise you pooh pooh the corruption of your pals.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alien Vs Predator: Daily Mail sueing Google over search results.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56828173

    The example given in their complaint, is that the search engine deliberately made it difficult to find Piers Morgan's columns on the ex-royal story of a few weeks ago, instead referring people to many other secondary sources of Morgan's words.

    Great news for the lawyers, if not for the rest of us.

    I don't think the Mail will get very far with it but it's an open secret that Google use algorithms to manipulate their search results based on their business model.

    Why wouldn't they?
    Other search engines are available. As with all things on the open market if Google faff with their algorithms too much and make it silly, punters will jump ship. As they can to other news sites that aren't the Daily Heil.
    Which ones?

    Google have virtually all the market. I have to actively think hard to remember Yahoo and Bing - and I'd have to research any others.
    I use yahoo out of habit, and my PC seems to like taking me to bing
    I remember 15-20 years ago there were a series of court cases by the EU Commission which sought to stop Microsoft from directing people to their own products and discouraging the use of alternatives. They seem to have fallen into desuetude and Microsoft is back doing this. Presumably this is recognition that in search engines it is Google that has the dominant market position, not Bing but it does show that there are trends in competition law with certain things going in and out of favour.

    Personally, I think it is well past time that we had some serious anti-trust legislation and litigation directed at the mega companies the US has produced. I agree with @Charles that Google should be regulated as a utility as should other internet platforms such as Facebook. Also the "market" created by Amazon which gives them absurd power over the businesses who trade there.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    One in five government Covid contracts awarded between February and November 2020 contained one or more red flags for possible corruption and require urgent further investigation, a respected campaign group has warned.

    Transparency International UK said a “seriously flawed” arrangement, whereby companies bidding for contracts were prioritised if they were referred into a “VIP lane” by their political connections, had “damaged trust in the integrity of the pandemic response”.

    The group said Boris Johnson’s government must urgently disclose the identities of companies awarded public money through the VIP lane, which was set up by the Cabinet Office and the Department of Health and Social Care in the early days of the pandemic.

    That’s just a criticism of the “VIP lane” (which I have no view on)

    But it will be reported as 1/5 “potentially corrupt” or something which is unhelpful because if you devalue the term “corruption” in the public mind the really bad stuff will skip past without people caring
    No surprise you pooh pooh the corruption of your pals.
    Provided that appropriate controls are in place there is no intrinsic problem with having a pre-screening process which is effectively what the “VIP lane” was.

    I was approached by lots of people looking for help and access on PPE. I took a blanket approach of not responding to any of them because I didn’t have the time to sort the serious ones from the chancers. But if someone I knew well and trusted had approached me then sure, why not refer them on.

    Ultimately it’s a question of judgement
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    I'm not so sure because Mercer has been outspoken before.

    But, he could become the new Sarah Woolaston and a media darling.

    Hard to see how he continues to sit with the Tories led by the clown, after this
    Is his problem that British soldiers are no longer able to go a Imperial on other countries citizens with impunity?
    I think I understand that. If so, the answer is no. His grouch seems to be that the protections that are being afforded to our military for overseas operations are not being extended to Northern Ireland as Boris promised. Also very little has been done to follow through on the veterans' charter.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,254
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    This will go down well... I’d call it “overreach”... white bread, butter, jam, sugar, chocolate all on the naughty list

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9497923/British-diet-white-bread-butter-chocolate-sending-early-grave-researchers-say.html

    Surely starvation is also bad for you. I mean, what's left?
    Lentils and tofu
    Makes an early death look like the easier option.
    As the old saying goes “a vegan doesn’t actually live longer, it just seems that way”
    I'm sure many of us grew up on that diet. Teatime as a child was often white bread and butter, and jam. But the rest of my diet was nutritious - fresh meat and veg. Not junk food.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Britain risks destroying trust with Australia as it tries to secure a post-Brexit trade deal, after the UK trade secretary’s allies were accused of launching an “unprovoked attack” on her counterpart on the eve of talks in London.

    Trade experts said the reported comments about the Australian trade minister, Dan Tehan, by allies of Liz Truss were “bizarre” and “an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations”.

    The Australian government opted not to return fire on the undiplomatic comments on Wednesday, with Tehan declining to respond.

    But Dr Jeffrey Wilson, the research director of the Perth USAsia Centre at the University of Western Australia, said the reported remarks would “damage trust between the ministers, which is essential if they are to work together to direct and shape the progress of the negotiating teams”.

    “This ‘backgrounding’ – which includes unprovoked ad hominem directed against the Australian trade minister – is bizarre,” Wilson told the Guardian.

    “In nearly 20 years working on trade negotiations, I have never seen personal attacks deployed as a negotiating tactic. It is an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations.”

    What is the attack? The quotes in the article are he’s a bit slow to move so we are going to put him in an uncomfortable chair.

    Pathetic and childish perhaps but hardly an “unprovoked attack”
    It sounds like frustration from Liz Truss and her team that her Australian opposite can't or won't move as fast as she does.

    I understand a UK trade deal with New Zealand is imminent.
    Yes. The guardian did find a quote from “farmers weekly” saying that New Zealand farmers were on the look out for “dirty tricks”
    Which is strange, since I'd imagine New Zealand would jump at the chance to sell us their lovely lamb and wine more cheaply. Our market is rich and more than double the size of Australia and New Zealand put together.

    Maybe they have to clear it past Beijing first.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alien Vs Predator: Daily Mail sueing Google over search results.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56828173

    The example given in their complaint, is that the search engine deliberately made it difficult to find Piers Morgan's columns on the ex-royal story of a few weeks ago, instead referring people to many other secondary sources of Morgan's words.

    Great news for the lawyers, if not for the rest of us.

    I don't think the Mail will get very far with it but it's an open secret that Google use algorithms to manipulate their search results based on their business model.

    Why wouldn't they?
    There is a case that Google should be regulated as a utility.

    Effectively they can destroy other businesses if they resist their fees and charges
    I was amused by Microsoft's latest update to its T&Cs two weeks ago where it offered me a "choice" of accepting them so I could continue to use its platform, or declining them and deleting every Microsoft related bit of software from all of my devices.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    I posted yesterday that our PM is widely held to be a rogue, but for many people a lovable one. Once the 'lovable' goes his fall may well be swift, long and hard.

    That's my feeling. One day the damn will burst, and suddenly those who have been cheering the clown along from the beginning will be struck with the most remarkable selective amnesia.
  • malcolmg said:

    As long as Boris is popular and delivering to the red wall he is safe but if that unwinds then expect the party to take action.

    However, I do not see it on the horizon yet

    Indeed for everything being thrown at him on sleaze he just seems to be teflon coated

    And on interesting news from last night Independence seems to be on the slide

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1384997052468301826?s=19

    Yes one poll out of 20+ , must be true right enough, next you will be saying that Johnson is honest and trustworthy
    It is the trend Malc
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Britain risks destroying trust with Australia as it tries to secure a post-Brexit trade deal, after the UK trade secretary’s allies were accused of launching an “unprovoked attack” on her counterpart on the eve of talks in London.

    Trade experts said the reported comments about the Australian trade minister, Dan Tehan, by allies of Liz Truss were “bizarre” and “an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations”.

    The Australian government opted not to return fire on the undiplomatic comments on Wednesday, with Tehan declining to respond.

    But Dr Jeffrey Wilson, the research director of the Perth USAsia Centre at the University of Western Australia, said the reported remarks would “damage trust between the ministers, which is essential if they are to work together to direct and shape the progress of the negotiating teams”.

    “This ‘backgrounding’ – which includes unprovoked ad hominem directed against the Australian trade minister – is bizarre,” Wilson told the Guardian.

    “In nearly 20 years working on trade negotiations, I have never seen personal attacks deployed as a negotiating tactic. It is an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations.”

    What is the attack? The quotes in the article are he’s a bit slow to move so we are going to put him in an uncomfortable chair.

    Pathetic and childish perhaps but hardly an “unprovoked attack”
    It sounds like frustration from Liz Truss and her team that her Australian opposite can't or won't move as fast as she does.

    I understand a UK trade deal with New Zealand is imminent.
    Sounds like first "REAL" trade deal and she is getting nowhere. The Australians don't need to lick butt. She is useless and there is little to nothing in it for them, it is UK that is desperate. I expect a polished turd as usual from Truss , embellished with many lies.
    New trade deals are harder than continuity trade deals because you're starting from square one.

    With the latter, you already have a pre-existing basis for agreement. On the former, lots of vested interests to break down & get past.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    IanB2 said:

    One day the damn will burst, and suddenly those who have been cheering the clown along from the beginning will be struck with the most remarkable selective amnesia.

    It will be epic on here
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    This will go down well... I’d call it “overreach”... white bread, butter, jam, sugar, chocolate all on the naughty list

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9497923/British-diet-white-bread-butter-chocolate-sending-early-grave-researchers-say.html

    Surely starvation is also bad for you. I mean, what's left?
    Lentils and tofu
    Makes an early death look like the easier option.
    A lifetime of decent breakfasts or an extra ten years sitting in a chair...the choice is yours!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    This will go down well... I’d call it “overreach”... white bread, butter, jam, sugar, chocolate all on the naughty list

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9497923/British-diet-white-bread-butter-chocolate-sending-early-grave-researchers-say.html

    Surely starvation is also bad for you. I mean, what's left?
    Lentils and tofu
    I choose starvation.
  • I posted yesterday that our PM is widely held to be a rogue, but for many people a lovable one. Once the 'lovable' goes his fall may well be swift, long and hard.

    And that is the point

    Boris is popular and seems immune to the accusations of sleaze

    However, his end will either be swift, or long and hard, it cannot be both

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    I posted yesterday that our PM is widely held to be a rogue, but for many people a lovable one. Once the 'lovable' goes his fall may well be swift, long and hard.

    And that is the point

    Boris is popular and seems immune to the accusations of sleaze

    However, his end will either be swift, or long and hard, it cannot be both

    Swift and hard?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    IanB2 said:

    I posted yesterday that our PM is widely held to be a rogue, but for many people a lovable one. Once the 'lovable' goes his fall may well be swift, long and hard.

    That's my feeling. One day the damn will burst, and suddenly those who have been cheering the clown along from the beginning will be struck with the most remarkable selective amnesia.
    "All political careers end in failure"

    For now though we have one of our greatest PMs of all time and that you continue to underestimate "the clown" is icing on the cake.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    IanB2 said:

    I posted yesterday that our PM is widely held to be a rogue, but for many people a lovable one. Once the 'lovable' goes his fall may well be swift, long and hard.

    And that is the point

    Boris is popular and seems immune to the accusations of sleaze

    However, his end will either be swift, or long and hard, it cannot be both

    Swift and hard?
    It can be swift and long... think I’d sliding down Everest on a coiled up rope (as my Dad did once)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    DavidL said:

    this man has been in Parliament for 6 years. What did he think was going on?

    He thought he was on the winning team
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:
    People have listened to Salmond saying that a List vote for the SNP is a wasted vote and go for a supermajority and thought "that's a fair point. I'll vote Green in the list then."
  • IanB2 said:

    I posted yesterday that our PM is widely held to be a rogue, but for many people a lovable one. Once the 'lovable' goes his fall may well be swift, long and hard.

    That's my feeling. One day the damn will burst, and suddenly those who have been cheering the clown along from the beginning will be struck with the most remarkable selective amnesia.
    All political carers end at some time and Boris will be no different

    However, those seeking his fall may have some time to wait
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    I posted yesterday that our PM is widely held to be a rogue, but for many people a lovable one. Once the 'lovable' goes his fall may well be swift, long and hard.

    And that is the point

    Boris is popular and seems immune to the accusations of sleaze

    However, his end will either be swift, or long and hard, it cannot be both

    It can. He can fall from office swiftly and then have his reputation trashed over a number of years as people speak out.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,800
    Mr. Charles, funny you should mention that. In the last 15 years or so I've been to the doctor twice. And that was in the same year.

    Had some weight fall off a year or so ago and started eating more less because I want to and more because I like not being able to see all my ribs.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    DavidL said:

    On topic I find the idea that the scales were suddenly lifted from Mercer's eyes in the last 36 hours and he suddenly realised that those involved in politics were not always truthful genuinely risible. I begin to wonder if he is one of those adults that @TSE was talking about in the previous thread header who really shouldn't be allowed out of the house without adult supervision. I mean, this man has been in Parliament for 6 years. What did he think was going on?

    That's exactly what I was thinking. .. and if Mercer isn't being truthful then he is as bad as those who he accuses. Politics is was now and ever shall be a cesspit. You don't get to the top by being nice.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    this man has been in Parliament for 6 years. What did he think was going on?

    He thought he was on the winning team
    He thought he was indispensable to the winning team.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    edited April 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    this man has been in Parliament for 6 years. What did he think was going on?

    He thought he was on the winning team
    Well he was. But they didn't become the winning team by being nice or sincere or entirely truthful. That isn't how the game works. Ask Nicola.

    Edit but don't believe her answer of course.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    Charles said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Charles, they can sod off if they think I'm not eating chocolate any more.

    A Mars a day keeps the doctor away?
    Outrageously expensive product. Now twice the price for half the size.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    DavidL said:

    On topic I find the idea that the scales were suddenly lifted from Mercer's eyes in the last 36 hours and he suddenly realised that those involved in politics were not always truthful genuinely risible. I begin to wonder if he is one of those adults that @TSE was talking about in the previous thread header who really shouldn't be allowed out of the house without adult supervision. I mean, this man has been in Parliament for 6 years. What did he think was going on?

    These things provide entertainment for the Scotn'Paste's et al on here who daily predict the end for Johnson as if they had some deep inside knowledge and understanding of politics. It's extraordinary how their 'one more heave' approach elevates itself to a political strategy in their minds.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,919
    Charles said:

    This will go down well... I’d call it “overreach”... white bread, butter, jam, sugar, chocolate all on the naughty list

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9497923/British-diet-white-bread-butter-chocolate-sending-early-grave-researchers-say.html

    Fruit juice will surprise people.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited April 2021

    IanB2 said:

    I posted yesterday that our PM is widely held to be a rogue, but for many people a lovable one. Once the 'lovable' goes his fall may well be swift, long and hard.

    That's my feeling. One day the damn will burst, and suddenly those who have been cheering the clown along from the beginning will be struck with the most remarkable selective amnesia.
    All political carers end at some time and Boris will be no different

    However, those seeking his fall may have some time to wait
    You criticised him for such a long time, then ended up looking very silly

    You've now been supporting him for a long time, and a repeat of the same ending looks a pretty good bet to me
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Britain risks destroying trust with Australia as it tries to secure a post-Brexit trade deal, after the UK trade secretary’s allies were accused of launching an “unprovoked attack” on her counterpart on the eve of talks in London.

    Trade experts said the reported comments about the Australian trade minister, Dan Tehan, by allies of Liz Truss were “bizarre” and “an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations”.

    The Australian government opted not to return fire on the undiplomatic comments on Wednesday, with Tehan declining to respond.

    But Dr Jeffrey Wilson, the research director of the Perth USAsia Centre at the University of Western Australia, said the reported remarks would “damage trust between the ministers, which is essential if they are to work together to direct and shape the progress of the negotiating teams”.

    “This ‘backgrounding’ – which includes unprovoked ad hominem directed against the Australian trade minister – is bizarre,” Wilson told the Guardian.

    “In nearly 20 years working on trade negotiations, I have never seen personal attacks deployed as a negotiating tactic. It is an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations.”

    What is the attack? The quotes in the article are he’s a bit slow to move so we are going to put him in an uncomfortable chair.

    Pathetic and childish perhaps but hardly an “unprovoked attack”
    Nevertheless, the Daily Express is now on the case:

    Brexit LIVE: Fury as Liz Truss 'disrespects' Australian trade chief - talks on brink
  • eekeek Posts: 28,390

    Charles said:

    This will go down well... I’d call it “overreach”... white bread, butter, jam, sugar, chocolate all on the naughty list

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9497923/British-diet-white-bread-butter-chocolate-sending-early-grave-researchers-say.html

    Fruit juice will surprise people.
    It's probably the sweetest thing people eat all day.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,988
    edited April 2021
    No longer Mercer’s ‘imperfection’ it would appear, still fecking ours though.

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1384994402477744129?s=21
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856

    DavidL said:

    On topic I find the idea that the scales were suddenly lifted from Mercer's eyes in the last 36 hours and he suddenly realised that those involved in politics were not always truthful genuinely risible. I begin to wonder if he is one of those adults that @TSE was talking about in the previous thread header who really shouldn't be allowed out of the house without adult supervision. I mean, this man has been in Parliament for 6 years. What did he think was going on?

    So is the complaint that Mercer should have known that the PM is a lair and therefore should not have complained? The problem is that the PM is a liar who is throwing yet another group (army veterans) under the bus having lied about a pledge he had no intention of keeping. Again. So it is truly entertaining that the blame is being aimed at the former army Captain doing his job with honour instead of the repeatedly sacked liar.
    Yes, you are starting to get the idea.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,542
    DavidL said:

    On topic I find the idea that the scales were suddenly lifted from Mercer's eyes in the last 36 hours and he suddenly realised that those involved in politics were not always truthful genuinely risible. I begin to wonder if he is one of those adults that @TSE was talking about in the previous thread header who really shouldn't be allowed out of the house without adult supervision. I mean, this man has been in Parliament for 6 years. What did he think was going on?

    Not really. If you had seen anything he has been writing on social media and his public statements for the last year or more you would know this has been a long time coming. The Veterans affairs stuff has always been his overriding passion and he made clear what his red lines on this were a long time ago. The only real surprise is that people are surprised he has done this. Given Johnson's duplicity on these issues and Mercer's views it was always going to be the only result.
  • IanB2 said:

    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Britain risks destroying trust with Australia as it tries to secure a post-Brexit trade deal, after the UK trade secretary’s allies were accused of launching an “unprovoked attack” on her counterpart on the eve of talks in London.

    Trade experts said the reported comments about the Australian trade minister, Dan Tehan, by allies of Liz Truss were “bizarre” and “an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations”.

    The Australian government opted not to return fire on the undiplomatic comments on Wednesday, with Tehan declining to respond.

    But Dr Jeffrey Wilson, the research director of the Perth USAsia Centre at the University of Western Australia, said the reported remarks would “damage trust between the ministers, which is essential if they are to work together to direct and shape the progress of the negotiating teams”.

    “This ‘backgrounding’ – which includes unprovoked ad hominem directed against the Australian trade minister – is bizarre,” Wilson told the Guardian.

    “In nearly 20 years working on trade negotiations, I have never seen personal attacks deployed as a negotiating tactic. It is an unfortunate but serious setback for what should have been friendly negotiations.”

    What is the attack? The quotes in the article are he’s a bit slow to move so we are going to put him in an uncomfortable chair.

    Pathetic and childish perhaps but hardly an “unprovoked attack”
    Nevertheless, the Daily Express is now on the case:

    Brexit LIVE: Fury as Liz Truss 'disrespects' Australian trade chief - talks on brink
    Brexit Live? What does this have to do with Brexit? We left the EU well over a year ago - sad that they see international trade as something we need to "win"
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,237
    edited April 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    One day the damn will burst, and suddenly those who have been cheering the clown along from the beginning will be struck with the most remarkable selective amnesia.

    It will be epic on here
    The social dynamics are going to be really interesting.
    Eventually, BoJo will let lots of people down and they will dislike him. That's already baked in. Partly because of his character as shown by his CV. But also because of the nature of his promises.

    But the fact that he's a known rogue strengthens his position until then. Everyone who put him in power did so with full knowledge of who he is and what he is like. They've complicit. Hence the contorted justifications, airbrushing of history or attempts to change the subject. Anything to avoid acknowledging a mistake.

    It's what schoolboy gang leaders do. Make the minions complicit and they become more loyal. And they do it because it works.

    It won't work forever, and the collapse will make Black Wednesday look like a convent picnic, but until then it will look very stable, potentially for a long time.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,254

    Charles said:

    This will go down well... I’d call it “overreach”... white bread, butter, jam, sugar, chocolate all on the naughty list

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9497923/British-diet-white-bread-butter-chocolate-sending-early-grave-researchers-say.html

    Fruit juice will surprise people.
    It shouldn't do. High in sugar and with many of the nutrients stripped out. I rarely drink the stuff.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic I find the idea that the scales were suddenly lifted from Mercer's eyes in the last 36 hours and he suddenly realised that those involved in politics were not always truthful genuinely risible. I begin to wonder if he is one of those adults that @TSE was talking about in the previous thread header who really shouldn't be allowed out of the house without adult supervision. I mean, this man has been in Parliament for 6 years. What did he think was going on?

    So is the complaint that Mercer should have known that the PM is a lair and therefore should not have complained? The problem is that the PM is a liar who is throwing yet another group (army veterans) under the bus having lied about a pledge he had no intention of keeping. Again. So it is truly entertaining that the blame is being aimed at the former army Captain doing his job with honour instead of the repeatedly sacked liar.
    Yes, you are starting to get the idea.
    Understood. So your complaint isn't a PM who lied to army veterans that he would stop them being thrown under the bus. Your complaint is that an honourable man trying to do his job on behalf of his former comrades didn't quit earlier and make no attempt to help them.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200
    I don't like Mercer - such a prima donna - but I do like his comments. It only confirms what all with faculties knew but it's good to hear it from an insider. Hopefully Labour can make hay.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,919
    edited April 2021
    Jonathan said:

    I posted yesterday that our PM is widely held to be a rogue, but for many people a lovable one. Once the 'lovable' goes his fall may well be swift, long and hard.

    And that is the point

    Boris is popular and seems immune to the accusations of sleaze

    However, his end will either be swift, or long and hard, it cannot be both

    It can. He can fall from office swiftly and then have his reputation trashed over a number of years as people speak out.
    Boris is vulnerable because, as I rarely tire of pointing out, he ran on Labour's 2017 platform against previous Conservative governments. Sooner or later, Conservative MPs will notice, although right now he has the cover of the Covid pandemic and Brexit.

    I suggested during the campaign that supporters of both sides will need to reverse ferret as a Conservative government enacted measures that supporters had previously condemned and opponents had campaigned for but that did not happen. It just matters he has won. The football supporters view of politics: the blue team won; the red team lost.

    But it may be that Boris retires before he is pushed.

    Mercer raises the question of Boris's integrity. Can his word be relied on? No, of course not. Does Boris lie? I'm not sure. It often seems more that Boris is careless of whether any statement is true or false provided it helps him win; then it can be discarded, again without reference to truth or falsehood.

    Peter Oborne's book, The Assault on Truth: Boris Johnson, Donald Trump and the Emergence of a New Moral Barbarism, takes a different view. Perhaps Oborne is right. Here is its, presumably sympathetic to the Prime Minister, ConHome review:
    https://www.conservativehome.com/highlights/2021/02/oborne-condemns-johnson-as-a-liar-and-cannot-understand-why-many-voters-believe-the-pm-is-telling-the-truth.html

    ETA The Guardian, presumably less sympathetic. You can google for the Mail's review (or can you?).
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/03/the-assault-on-truth-by-peter-oborne-review-boris-johnsons-lies
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856

    DavidL said:

    On topic I find the idea that the scales were suddenly lifted from Mercer's eyes in the last 36 hours and he suddenly realised that those involved in politics were not always truthful genuinely risible. I begin to wonder if he is one of those adults that @TSE was talking about in the previous thread header who really shouldn't be allowed out of the house without adult supervision. I mean, this man has been in Parliament for 6 years. What did he think was going on?

    Not really. If you had seen anything he has been writing on social media and his public statements for the last year or more you would know this has been a long time coming. The Veterans affairs stuff has always been his overriding passion and he made clear what his red lines on this were a long time ago. The only real surprise is that people are surprised he has done this. Given Johnson's duplicity on these issues and Mercer's views it was always going to be the only result.
    It's the way he expressed himself Richard and in particular "the last 36 hours" nonsense.

    I am not unsympathetic to his aims although the whole idea of giving servicemen immunity for alleged abuses when on active duty is inevitably controversial and applying it to NI particularly so. This is not a fight that Boris has felt able to have in the last year when there have been one or two other things looking for his attention.

    Of course if you strongly believe in this, like Mercer clearly does, that is frustrating. Ideally, Boris will respond to this resignation by pushing this agenda forward which means that he will have achieved his objective at some personal cost and kudos to him but the personal attacks on colleagues are unproductive and quite possibly inimical to that objective.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,390

    DavidL said:

    On topic I find the idea that the scales were suddenly lifted from Mercer's eyes in the last 36 hours and he suddenly realised that those involved in politics were not always truthful genuinely risible. I begin to wonder if he is one of those adults that @TSE was talking about in the previous thread header who really shouldn't be allowed out of the house without adult supervision. I mean, this man has been in Parliament for 6 years. What did he think was going on?

    Not really. If you had seen anything he has been writing on social media and his public statements for the last year or more you would know this has been a long time coming. The Veterans affairs stuff has always been his overriding passion and he made clear what his red lines on this were a long time ago. The only real surprise is that people are surprised he has done this. Given Johnson's duplicity on these issues and Mercer's views it was always going to be the only result.
    I suspect he always knew his resignation / sacking was going to be inevitable - Boris had promised the impossible and hadn't even bothered to try and deliver.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿New Holyrood List VI

    SNP 38 (-2)
    Conservative 23 (+2)
    Labour 17 (-1)
    Green 7 (-2)
    LD 5 (-1)
    Other 8 (+2)

    16-20 April
    Savanta ComRes
    (chg from 2-7 April)

    Where’s this leave us?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725

    Charles said:

    This will go down well... I’d call it “overreach”... white bread, butter, jam, sugar, chocolate all on the naughty list

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9497923/British-diet-white-bread-butter-chocolate-sending-early-grave-researchers-say.html

    Fruit juice will surprise people.
    It shouldn't do. High in sugar and with many of the nutrients stripped out. I rarely drink the stuff.
    Its the sort of thing one has in a hotel whilst having a full English or "cholesterol bomb" as I refer to it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Jonathan said:

    I posted yesterday that our PM is widely held to be a rogue, but for many people a lovable one. Once the 'lovable' goes his fall may well be swift, long and hard.

    And that is the point

    Boris is popular and seems immune to the accusations of sleaze

    However, his end will either be swift, or long and hard, it cannot be both

    It can. He can fall from office swiftly and then have his reputation trashed over a number of years as people speak out.
    Does Boris lie? I'm not sure.
    LOL
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    edited April 2021
    kinabalu said:

    I don't like Mercer - such a prima donna - but I do like his comments. It only confirms what all with faculties knew but it's good to hear it from an insider. Hopefully Labour can make hay.

    I doubt it after SKS's recent pub visit. Labour are hopeless. That is why Boris is unflappable.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Anyhow I am taking this week's mini-market-wobble as a warning and doing some more selective selling
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201
    Alistair said:
    I see Douglas Ross is reviving Cameron's "Hug a Hoodie" campaign.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:
    I see Douglas Ross is reviving Cameron's "Hug a Hoodie" campaign.
    Alba are cruising for a bruising.
This discussion has been closed.