But anyway, re the politics of this 'superleague' thing, and cui bono, it got me musing about whether there is such a thing as Remainy football as distinct from Leavey football. At first I thought no, don’t be silly, but as I kept on determinedly considering the matter I had a change of heart and concluded that yes, yes there most certainly is, and it’s about the style of play.
When picturing the Remainy version of the game one sees something built around a coterie of diminutive, highly mobile ball players, deft of touch, slow to anger but prone to going down a bit too easily. Leavey football could not be more different. Here, the foundation is a brutish bunch of hard men at the back, good honest pros, and in front of them yet more good honest pros ready and willing to chase that long ball punted through.
The aesthetics of the first is probably superior, think that’s fair, but when it comes to what really matters, results, it’s if anything the other way around. I suspect most people realize this now.
Perhaps. On Remainy football vs Leavey football, this argument strikes me as another hash of somewheres vs anywheres. Those proposing the EPL are right up the anywheriest end of the spectrum, so much so as to alienate almost all of the people in their half of the spectrum.
Which brings up the old chestnut of what the Remainiest and Leaviest sports are.
Taking a selection of sports, I would propose the following from Remainiest to Leaviest:
Winter Sports Tennis Rugby Union Cricket Football Rugby League Darts
Ah but I sense you've just done a straight class thing there - and it does work for that. But remember that the Leave base is the WWC plus the shires of Middle England. It's dog track AND golf club - hence why it's dominant. And speaking of golf, that's a good example. It's very UN working class, but it's Leavey.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
Andrew Musgrove Oliver Dowden: "Be in no doubt, if they [The Premier League] can't act - we will. We will put everything on the table to prevent this from happening."
A strong line from the government - let's see what happens.
#TheESL
I seriously doubt the Big Six thought the government would react so fiercely. It's one thing bullying FIFA and UEFA, or the FA and the Premier League. It's a bit different when you are facing the British Government, no longer hamstrung by EU law, and able to do almost anything it likes. Especially if you are reliant on foreigners coming in to play for you
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
It can probably use anti-competition rules in some manner because the ESL is a closed shop.
As an aside, if the government does choose to stop the Super League, we can reasonably assume that the money from Champions League TV rights will never end up in the uk. The clubs will have lost absolutely all negotiating power with EUFA.
As an aside, if the government does choose to stop the Super League, we can reasonably assume that the money from Champions League TV rights will never end up in the uk. The clubs will have lost absolutely all negotiating power with EUFA.
They shouldn't have attempted to launch a closed shop then.
If they'd attempted to launch a product, with the top 6 clubs from England qualifying, then there wouldn't have been this uproar.
Andrew Musgrove Oliver Dowden: "Be in no doubt, if they [The Premier League] can't act - we will. We will put everything on the table to prevent this from happening."
A strong line from the government - let's see what happens.
#TheESL
I seriously doubt the Big Six thought the government would react so fiercely. It's one thing bullying FIFA and UEFA, or the FA and the Premier League. It's a bit different when you are facing the British Government, no longer hamstrung by EU law, and able to do almost anything it likes. Especially if you are reliant on foreigners coming in to play for you
Yes, I think the clubs hadn't counted on the government being so anti. The American owned ones probably didn't even figure on that happening.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
This response is probably going to spell the end of English football's dominance.
Who on earth would be stupid enough to invest in it ever again?
People who like to invest in the most popular league on the planet? You know, the EPL? That one? The one that generates more TV cash than any other, and has more viewers.
He got the headline he wanted in March, then immediately gave up.
What a charlatan.
I hope you never have to struggle with anything like your weight for the rest of your life.
Not everyone finds it as easy as you must. That doesn't make them charlatans.
In the early days of lockdown scared of the virus I lost just over 30 pounds. Over the last 6 months and specifically since the new lockdown at the end of December I have, sad to say, put 20 pounds back on again. I am now trying hard to lose some of that. It's a struggle involving an alcohol free diet and I sympathise with anyone who finds it difficult.
Lockdown Lard has proved a bit of a bastard to shift. Slowly chipping away at an extra 10lb.
As an aside, if the government does choose to stop the Super League, we can reasonably assume that the money from Champions League TV rights will never end up in the uk. The clubs will have lost absolutely all negotiating power with EUFA.
Not a bad way to launch a campaign for the World Cup though.
A "fan led review" isn't "robust". It's a gesture.
I'm not criticising the Government on this, but the proposals will sink or swim as a commercial matter, influenced by UEFA and FIFA measures. The approach of national governments isn't really that relevant - they can launch as many "reviews" as they like.
I am fairly sure it'll sink, and in any event that this is all a negotiating ploy by the big boys for other changes to the Champions League format, and financial allocations.
But anyway, re the politics of this 'superleague' thing, and cui bono, it got me musing about whether there is such a thing as Remainy football as distinct from Leavey football. At first I thought no, don’t be silly, but as I kept on determinedly considering the matter I had a change of heart and concluded that yes, yes there most certainly is, and it’s about the style of play.
When picturing the Remainy version of the game one sees something built around a coterie of diminutive, highly mobile ball players, deft of touch, slow to anger but prone to going down a bit too easily. Leavey football could not be more different. Here, the foundation is a brutish bunch of hard men at the back, good honest pros, and in front of them yet more good honest pros ready and willing to chase that long ball punted through.
The aesthetics of the first is probably superior, think that’s fair, but when it comes to what really matters, results, it’s if anything the other way around. I suspect most people realize this now.
Perhaps. On Remainy football vs Leavey football, this argument strikes me as another hash of somewheres vs anywheres. Those proposing the EPL are right up the anywheriest end of the spectrum, so much so as to alienate almost all of the people in their half of the spectrum.
Which brings up the old chestnut of what the Remainiest and Leaviest sports are.
Taking a selection of sports, I would propose the following from Remainiest to Leaviest:
Winter Sports Tennis Rugby Union Cricket Football Rugby League Darts
Ah but I sense you've just done a straight class thing there - and it does work for that. But remember that the Leave base is the WWC plus the shires of Middle England. It's dog track AND golf club - hence why it's dominant. And speaking of golf, that's a good example. It's very UN working class, but it's Leavey.
Yes, I have, but I had intended to bring in other parameters too, as you're rightly doing. I think I had once considerd golf's place and placed it just above rugby league, for exactly that reason. Because of the age thing. Also bowls: crown green above darts, flat green above football.
As an aside, if the government does choose to stop the Super League, we can reasonably assume that the money from Champions League TV rights will never end up in the uk. The clubs will have lost absolutely all negotiating power with EUFA.
They shouldn't have attempted to launch a closed shop then.
If they'd attempted to launch a product, with the top 6 clubs from England qualifying, then there wouldn't have been this uproar.
EUFA/FIFA are corrupt enough as it is. We shouldn't encourage it.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
The club still exists, the players and stadium are still there and new owners will takeover. The assets aren't going to change and I'm almost certain that the government would intervene if any owner tried to asset strip a club by selling the stadium etc...
As an aside, if the government does choose to stop the Super League, we can reasonably assume that the money from Champions League TV rights will never end up in the uk. The clubs will have lost absolutely all negotiating power with EUFA.
Nah. UEFA will give us the UCL trophy for the next ten years plus £1bn, in abject gratitude for Saving Football
Boris will be a pan-European hero and there will be enormous, ten metre high, quartz and iron statues of him outside every European football stadium. Quite ironic, really
Because, make no mistake, if the English Six have to pull out of the ESL, that's it. It's over. Without England and Germany, no chance it works
This response is probably going to spell the end of English football's dominance.
Who on earth would be stupid enough to invest in it ever again?
People who like to invest in the most popular league on the planet? You know, the EPL? That one? The one that generates more TV cash than any other, and has more viewers.
Would you buy a house if some penniless entitled socialist scousers had the final say over what you could or could not do with it?
Can I put a new roof on? Let's ask the Manc football supporters trust who have contributed nothing first.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
The EPL is one of our more successful export industries. It is in the national interest not to have it seriously damaged in this way. Given that we now have a pretty Mercantilist minded government (see the ARM decision) its not that much of a surprise. Plus the politics for a party wanting to show willing in former red wall seats really couldn't be better.
A "fan led review" isn't "robust". It's a gesture.
I'm not criticising the Government on this, but the proposals will sink or swim as a commercial matter, influenced by UEFA and FIFA measures. The approach of national governments isn't really that relevant - they can launch as many "reviews" as they like.
I am fairly sure it'll sink, and in any event that this is all a negotiating ploy by the big boys for other changes to the Champions League format, and financial allocations.
Dowden and HMG will stop this and remarkably even the SNP endorse the statement
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
He got the headline he wanted in March, then immediately gave up.
What a charlatan.
It was actually worse than this. He overstated by miles his pre Covid weight - claimed it was 17.5 stones lol - so as to be able to exaggerate to great sympathy how much weight he'd lost due to the disease.
Only Philip Thompson swallowed this - and it ultimately (after a tumble with me) led to him having to make the ludicrous claim that Johnson (at just 5 feet 7) was as heavy as that due to being "all muscle and very little fat".
You are a liar.
I never said that he had "very little fat" so please stop telling lies.
You claimed that he wasn't fat enough to be 17.5 stone, I said I entirely believe it is plausible he is 17.5 stone. I said he'll have a mix of muscles (which is denser than fat) and fat (which he clearly has) to make it plausible to be 17.5 stone.
And quite frankly 17.5 stone isn't "that" much.
I think he's fat enough to be 17.5 stone, you don't. That's the difference.
17.5 stone for a short man is ginormous. Maradona at the nadir of his weight problems wasn't much more than that. And I'm afraid that in seeking to explain the inexplicable you did advance the notion of him being mainly muscle. It wasn't your finest hour.
Not that I go on about it to embarrass you. I'm not like that. First mention for at least 6 months.
As an aside, if the government does choose to stop the Super League, we can reasonably assume that the money from Champions League TV rights will never end up in the uk. The clubs will have lost absolutely all negotiating power with EUFA.
They shouldn't have attempted to launch a closed shop then.
If they'd attempted to launch a product, with the top 6 clubs from England qualifying, then there wouldn't have been this uproar.
EUFA/FIFA are corrupt enough as it is. We shouldn't encourage it.
This response is probably going to spell the end of English football's dominance.
Who on earth would be stupid enough to invest in it ever again?
People who like to invest in the most popular league on the planet? You know, the EPL? That one? The one that generates more TV cash than any other, and has more viewers.
If FSG, Glazers and Kroenke sold up it would be no big loss to the league anyway. They're clearly the ringleaders who loathe the idea of their clubs missing out on elite European football.
As an aside, if the government does choose to stop the Super League, we can reasonably assume that the money from Champions League TV rights will never end up in the uk. The clubs will have lost absolutely all negotiating power with EUFA.
They shouldn't have attempted to launch a closed shop then.
If they'd attempted to launch a product, with the top 6 clubs from England qualifying, then there wouldn't have been this uproar.
EUFA/FIFA are corrupt enough as it is. We shouldn't encourage it.
At least with UEFA clubs qualify based on merit, this proposal is worse. Something never heard of before in our beautiful game.
The clubs could have launched their own breakaway league but taken their chances on qualification, exactly as happened when the PL was launched. They could have cut out UEFA, owned the league via the same way the PL is owned. Awarded qualification based upon the PL structure, with UEFA simply gone from the mix. Just as the PL cut out the Football League.
Instead they went for an anticompetitive scheme.
I suggested this morning this could end up an issue for the Competition and Market's Authority as a result.
All they had to do was not go for a closed shop and this could have worked.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
No, because the fans probably can't stop it, even though it will damage football grievously. And this is a vital industry for Britain, a major export, and a significant part of our culture and soft power. It is not just any old industry
The government is right to step in. it would be the same if some rapacious trillionaire Chinaman came in and bought all the Nash Terraces and then said Oh I'm shipping them to Guandong.
Andrew Musgrove Oliver Dowden: "Be in no doubt, if they [The Premier League] can't act - we will. We will put everything on the table to prevent this from happening."
A strong line from the government - let's see what happens.
#TheESL
I seriously doubt the Big Six thought the government would react so fiercely. It's one thing bullying FIFA and UEFA, or the FA and the Premier League. It's a bit different when you are facing the British Government, no longer hamstrung by EU law, and able to do almost anything it likes. Especially if you are reliant on foreigners coming in to play for you
Yes, I think the clubs hadn't counted on the government being so anti. The American owned ones probably didn't even figure on that happening.
Yes. They are used to a system where they demand cities build them a new stadium every 20 years for free under threat of moving to somewhere who will.
As an aside, if the government does choose to stop the Super League, we can reasonably assume that the money from Champions League TV rights will never end up in the uk. The clubs will have lost absolutely all negotiating power with EUFA.
Nah. UEFA will give us the UCL trophy for the next ten years plus £1bn, in abject gratitude for Saving Football
Boris will be a pan-European hero and there will be enormous, ten metre high, quartz and iron statues of him outside every European football stadium. Quite ironic, really
Because, make no mistake, if the English Six have to pull out of the ESL, that's it. It's over. Without England and Germany, no chance it works
UEFA and FIFA make billions of dollars from selling World Cup, Champions League, and European Cup TV rights.
Very little of that money ends up going back into football.
He got the headline he wanted in March, then immediately gave up.
What a charlatan.
It was actually worse than this. He overstated by miles his pre Covid weight - claimed it was 17.5 stones lol - so as to be able to exaggerate to great sympathy how much weight he'd lost due to the disease.
Only Philip Thompson swallowed this - and it ultimately (after a tumble with me) led to him having to make the ludicrous claim that Johnson (at just 5 feet 7) was as heavy as that due to being "all muscle and very little fat".
You are a liar.
I never said that he had "very little fat" so please stop telling lies.
You claimed that he wasn't fat enough to be 17.5 stone, I said I entirely believe it is plausible he is 17.5 stone. I said he'll have a mix of muscles (which is denser than fat) and fat (which he clearly has) to make it plausible to be 17.5 stone.
And quite frankly 17.5 stone isn't "that" much.
I think he's fat enough to be 17.5 stone, you don't. That's the difference.
17.5 stone for a short man is ginormous. Maradona at the nadir of his weight problems wasn't much more than that. And I'm afraid that in seeking to explain the inexplicable you did advance the notion of him being mainly muscle. It wasn't your finest hour.
Not that I go on about it to embarrass you. I'm not like that. First mention for at least 6 months.
17.5 stone is not ginormous. Its obese but guess what so is Boris. Its not even exceptionally obese.
Entirely feasible, he's a fat man who cycles. Entirely plausible he's that fat and you're rather ignorant in thinking he couldn't be that fat.
But anyway, re the politics of this 'superleague' thing, and cui bono, it got me musing about whether there is such a thing as Remainy football as distinct from Leavey football. At first I thought no, don’t be silly, but as I kept on determinedly considering the matter I had a change of heart and concluded that yes, yes there most certainly is, and it’s about the style of play.
When picturing the Remainy version of the game one sees something built around a coterie of diminutive, highly mobile ball players, deft of touch, slow to anger but prone to going down a bit too easily. Leavey football could not be more different. Here, the foundation is a brutish bunch of hard men at the back, good honest pros, and in front of them yet more good honest pros ready and willing to chase that long ball punted through.
The aesthetics of the first is probably superior, think that’s fair, but when it comes to what really matters, results, it’s if anything the other way around. I suspect most people realize this now.
Perhaps. On Remainy football vs Leavey football, this argument strikes me as another hash of somewheres vs anywheres. Those proposing the EPL are right up the anywheriest end of the spectrum, so much so as to alienate almost all of the people in their half of the spectrum.
Which brings up the old chestnut of what the Remainiest and Leaviest sports are....
It's hardly a question of leavers vs remainers, though, is it ?
As the Atlantic points out, opposition to it is pan European, while many of the investors are the kind of 'wider world' types favoured by a subset of the leaver camp.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/04/european-super-league-football/618636/ ...Within hours of its announcement, the plan was condemned by British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and French President Emmanuel Macron. National governing bodies that run the game in individual countries across Europe threatened to suspend clubs that joined from their domestic competitions, and to bar players for those clubs from representing their country.
It is a remarkable moment of European unity, intended and unintended. Yet in many ways, the very idea of a breakaway super league also points to the disconnect that helps explain Brexit and other so-called populist movements in Europe: the sense of powerlessness and rupture.
The attempted breakaway is being led in large part by the English, whose teams are the richest in the world. But while six of the participating clubs are from England, only one of them is owned by an English person. Three are owned by Americans (Liverpool, Arsenal, and Manchester United); one by a Russian oligarch who no longer lives in London (Chelsea); and one by a Middle Eastern statelet, Abu Dhabi (Manchester City). If anything, this English-led revolution is a consequence of the English Premier League’s extraordinarily successful globalization....
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
Do British clubs get the same sort of tax breaks and other considerations as do US franchises? If so, I'd say the government clearly should have a say. If not, hard to justify interference IMO
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
I think that's the point, this is cultural importance to the nation. It's like someone buying the LTA and then shifting Wimbledon to Asia because it would probably make more TV money in that time zone.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
Disagree. If it was an issue like Bury FC going to the wall, I'd perhaps agree. But big six football no longer falls under the 'cultural and societal' bracket.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
The club still exists, the players and stadium are still there and new owners will takeover. The assets aren't going to change and I'm almost certain that the government would intervene if any owner tried to asset strip a club by selling the stadium etc...
So the owners were extremely foolish to part with billions to own an English football club.
Because their ownership of the club is effectively not worth the paper it is written on. Thanks for your billions. Thanks for your contribution. But we own this, really.
Its like something Vladimir Putin does. And that's why Russia is where Russia is, economically.
A "fan led review" isn't "robust". It's a gesture.
I'm not criticising the Government on this, but the proposals will sink or swim as a commercial matter, influenced by UEFA and FIFA measures. The approach of national governments isn't really that relevant - they can launch as many "reviews" as they like.
I am fairly sure it'll sink, and in any event that this is all a negotiating ploy by the big boys for other changes to the Champions League format, and financial allocations.
Dowden and HMG will stop this and remarkably even the SNP endorse the statement
This has united the whole of the HOC
That's just MPs jumping on a bandwagon. Everyone knows 99% of football fans hate this, so no sane politician will say "hang on, let's hear them out..."
As I say, it doesn't matter how many MPs speak out and how many "fan led reviews" are launched. What stops this is a commercial deal within UEFA, who have a lot of leverage. If this made sense commercially, it'd happen. But it doesn't, and won't.
But anyway, re the politics of this 'superleague' thing, and cui bono, it got me musing about whether there is such a thing as Remainy football as distinct from Leavey football. At first I thought no, don’t be silly, but as I kept on determinedly considering the matter I had a change of heart and concluded that yes, yes there most certainly is, and it’s about the style of play.
When picturing the Remainy version of the game one sees something built around a coterie of diminutive, highly mobile ball players, deft of touch, slow to anger but prone to going down a bit too easily. Leavey football could not be more different. Here, the foundation is a brutish bunch of hard men at the back, good honest pros, and in front of them yet more good honest pros ready and willing to chase that long ball punted through.
The aesthetics of the first is probably superior, think that’s fair, but when it comes to what really matters, results, it’s if anything the other way around. I suspect most people realize this now.
Perhaps. On Remainy football vs Leavey football, this argument strikes me as another hash of somewheres vs anywheres. Those proposing the EPL are right up the anywheriest end of the spectrum, so much so as to alienate almost all of the people in their half of the spectrum.
Which brings up the old chestnut of what the Remainiest and Leaviest sports are....
It's hardly a question of leavers vs remainers, though, is it ?
As the Atlantic points out, opposition to it is pan European, while many of the investors are the kind of 'wider world' types favoured by a subset of the leaver camp.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/04/european-super-league-football/618636/ ...Within hours of its announcement, the plan was condemned by British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and French President Emmanuel Macron. National governing bodies that run the game in individual countries across Europe threatened to suspend clubs that joined from their domestic competitions, and to bar players for those clubs from representing their country.
It is a remarkable moment of European unity, intended and unintended. Yet in many ways, the very idea of a breakaway super league also points to the disconnect that helps explain Brexit and other so-called populist movements in Europe: the sense of powerlessness and rupture.
The attempted breakaway is being led in large part by the English, whose teams are the richest in the world. But while six of the participating clubs are from England, only one of them is owned by an English person. Three are owned by Americans (Liverpool, Arsenal, and Manchester United); one by a Russian oligarch who no longer lives in London (Chelsea); and one by a Middle Eastern statelet, Abu Dhabi (Manchester City). If anything, this English-led revolution is a consequence of the English Premier League’s extraordinarily successful globalization....
It's globalism vs localism, that's remain vs leave redux.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
Disagree. If it was an issue like Bury FC going to the wall, I'd perhaps agree. But big six football no longer falls under the 'cultural and societal' bracket.
I don't think the government should necessarily block the big six from playing in this "Super League" but I think they should prevent them playing in the "Super League" as well as the Premier League. They can't have their cake and eat it.
As an aside, if the government does choose to stop the Super League, we can reasonably assume that the money from Champions League TV rights will never end up in the uk. The clubs will have lost absolutely all negotiating power with EUFA.
Nah. UEFA will give us the UCL trophy for the next ten years plus £1bn, in abject gratitude for Saving Football
Boris will be a pan-European hero and there will be enormous, ten metre high, quartz and iron statues of him outside every European football stadium. Quite ironic, really
Because, make no mistake, if the English Six have to pull out of the ESL, that's it. It's over. Without England and Germany, no chance it works
UEFA and FIFA make billions of dollars from selling World Cup, Champions League, and European Cup TV rights.
Very little of that money ends up going back into football.
That organisations as awful as UEFA and FIFA have, on this issue, ideas that are better than the clubs, speaks volumes.
I'll be very impressed if their PR is able to somehow get around the fact that this is all about a core of clubs thinking they are too good to play lesser clubs, and also too special to face consequences if they become less good.
Andrew Musgrove Oliver Dowden: "Be in no doubt, if they [The Premier League] can't act - we will. We will put everything on the table to prevent this from happening."
A strong line from the government - let's see what happens.
#TheESL
I seriously doubt the Big Six thought the government would react so fiercely. It's one thing bullying FIFA and UEFA, or the FA and the Premier League. It's a bit different when you are facing the British Government, no longer hamstrung by EU law, and able to do almost anything it likes. Especially if you are reliant on foreigners coming in to play for you
Yes, I think the clubs hadn't counted on the government being so anti. The American owned ones probably didn't even figure on that happening.
Yes. They are used to a system where they demand cities build them a new stadium every 20 years for free under threat of moving to somewhere who will.
Don't FIFA regs allow them to suspend countries from international competition if their governments are deemed to have overly intervened in the management of football?
Albeit, I have a hunch that might not be applied too zealously in this case...
This response is probably going to spell the end of English football's dominance.
Who on earth would be stupid enough to invest in it ever again?
People who like to invest in the most popular league on the planet? You know, the EPL? That one? The one that generates more TV cash than any other, and has more viewers.
If FSG, Glazers and Kroenke sold up it would be no big loss to the league anyway. They're clearly the ringleaders who loathe the idea of their clubs missing out on elite European football.
Yes, there will still be plenty of Chinese and Arabs and Russians and others willing to invest in the world's most popular league. And they don't try to create closed shop, American-style franchise "leagues". It's an American thing, and the Americans can feck off
Another way the government might fight back. Legal?
"Government will come under pressure not to award work permits to Premier League’s breakaway six for new foreign signings if the ESL comes to fruition. Would effectively prevent them from recruiting overseas players."
If HMG finds a way to do this, that collapses the Superleague
Or they just up sticks & move to Riyadh, or Dubai, or wherever.
I wouldn’t put it past them.
We've been through this, it just won't happen. Liverpool are never leaving Liverpool, and never going to Dubai or Shanghai. The clue is in the name
I'm not sure any of the Terrible Twelve could move, they are all so firmly attached to their home cities, and famous grounds, the San Siro, the Bernabeu, White Hart Lane - one of the joys of football, of course
What you could do is create an entirely new ESL team from scratch - Dubai Dildos? - and all the players from Arsenal or Spurs move there, but that's pretty bloody difficult, practically and logistically
No. You are wrong. People have tried starting new teams from scratch and it's too hard, as we've seen from MLS and the recent Chinese attempts.
But you can take someone else's football club and move it, as with MK Dons. Chelsea could be moved to a gleaming new stadium pretty much anywhere, and, as they'd take all their players, their membership of the Super League, and the vast majority of their recently acquired global support with them it could be pretty successful.
That's where this will end up. Some of the teams will stay put, but others will move.
But anyway, re the politics of this 'superleague' thing, and cui bono, it got me musing about whether there is such a thing as Remainy football as distinct from Leavey football. At first I thought no, don’t be silly, but as I kept on determinedly considering the matter I had a change of heart and concluded that yes, yes there most certainly is, and it’s about the style of play.
When picturing the Remainy version of the game one sees something built around a coterie of diminutive, highly mobile ball players, deft of touch, slow to anger but prone to going down a bit too easily. Leavey football could not be more different. Here, the foundation is a brutish bunch of hard men at the back, good honest pros, and in front of them yet more good honest pros ready and willing to chase that long ball punted through.
The aesthetics of the first is probably superior, think that’s fair, but when it comes to what really matters, results, it’s if anything the other way around. I suspect most people realize this now.
Perhaps. On Remainy football vs Leavey football, this argument strikes me as another hash of somewheres vs anywheres. Those proposing the EPL are right up the anywheriest end of the spectrum, so much so as to alienate almost all of the people in their half of the spectrum.
Which brings up the old chestnut of what the Remainiest and Leaviest sports are.
Taking a selection of sports, I would propose the following from Remainiest to Leaviest:
Winter Sports Tennis Rugby Union Cricket Football Rugby League Darts
Ah but I sense you've just done a straight class thing there - and it does work for that. But remember that the Leave base is the WWC plus the shires of Middle England. It's dog track AND golf club - hence why it's dominant. And speaking of golf, that's a good example. It's very UN working class, but it's Leavey.
Yes, I have, but I had intended to bring in other parameters too, as you're rightly doing. I think I had once considerd golf's place and placed it just above rugby league, for exactly that reason. Because of the age thing. Also bowls: crown green above darts, flat green above football.
Crown green bowling's a funny one. I guess it has to be very very Leavey just for the simple reason that participants are elderly and the sport is concentrated in coastal towns.
A "fan led review" isn't "robust". It's a gesture.
I'm not criticising the Government on this, but the proposals will sink or swim as a commercial matter, influenced by UEFA and FIFA measures. The approach of national governments isn't really that relevant - they can launch as many "reviews" as they like.
I am fairly sure it'll sink, and in any event that this is all a negotiating ploy by the big boys for other changes to the Champions League format, and financial allocations.
Dowden and HMG will stop this and remarkably even the SNP endorse the statement
This has united the whole of the HOC
That's just MPs jumping on a bandwagon. Everyone knows 99% of football fans hate this, so no sane politician will say "hang on, let's hear them out..."
As I say, it doesn't matter how many MPs speak out and how many "fan led reviews" are launched. What stops this is a commercial deal within UEFA, who have a lot of leverage. If this made sense commercially, it'd happen. But it doesn't, and won't.
Listening to the debate MPs are going to stop this if UEFA do not
As an aside, if the government does choose to stop the Super League, we can reasonably assume that the money from Champions League TV rights will never end up in the uk. The clubs will have lost absolutely all negotiating power with EUFA.
Nah. UEFA will give us the UCL trophy for the next ten years plus £1bn, in abject gratitude for Saving Football
Boris will be a pan-European hero and there will be enormous, ten metre high, quartz and iron statues of him outside every European football stadium. Quite ironic, really
Because, make no mistake, if the English Six have to pull out of the ESL, that's it. It's over. Without England and Germany, no chance it works
UEFA and FIFA make billions of dollars from selling World Cup, Champions League, and European Cup TV rights.
Very little of that money ends up going back into football.
So come up with a viable competitive alternative.
Coming up with a closed shop alternative isn't a solution.
......The Landlord of the Raven will be live on Talk Radio with Mark Dolan this afternoon......
All we need now is Al Murray....
Why do they give these idiots the oxygen of publicity. I have no problem with calm discourse, but we shouldn't be encouraging people to scream and shout at politicians by then giving them spots of radio shows.
Feelings are running high. Many hardworking small business people have been completely steam-rollered by the government and they are angry.
Only those who drive round in top end range rovers but declare £11k a year income. Everyone else has had a more than decent bit of support.
Remember that £8000 pubs were meant to be getting to help them prepare for reopening. Still not paid. Councils were only told on 1 April about the details of how to make payment. Daughter has applied and is still waiting. Meanwhile bills still need to be paid.
Cash flow matters to businesses. Words in Parliament don't pay bills.
More than 10m people in the UK have now had two doses of a Covid-19 vaccine
Does the government really have enough Pfizer second doses?
The site in London I've been asked to attend has no appointments and is not doing Pfizer vaccinations. According to my GP there is no Pfizer expected in the Barrow region. So I just have to wait. Meanwhile my 12 week anniversary is coming up with my GP unable to tell me what will happen if I pass that without a second dose appointment. I can't book on the main NHS website either. If I type in my NHS number it says I am ineligible as I had my first dose through a GP. If I type in just my name and postcode it says it has no record of me.
I really don't think I can bear it if I have to go through the whole being locked down again for months on end while the NHS gets its shit together. I would rather walk into the fucking sea than continue with this purgatory. What the fuck is the point of life like this.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
I think that's the point, this is cultural importance to the nation. It's like someone buying the LTA and then shifting Wimbledon to Asia because it would probably make more TV money in that time zone.
But Wimbledon never put itself up for sale Max. It never took anybody's money for development or to trump other competitions
England's football clubs sold themselves to the great applause of fans. Now they want to sell themselves and own themselves at the same time.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
Disagree. If it was an issue like Bury FC going to the wall, I'd perhaps agree. But big six football no longer falls under the 'cultural and societal' bracket.
I don't think the government should necessarily block the big six from playing in this "Super League" but I think they should prevent them playing in the "Super League" as well as the Premier League. They can't have their cake and eat it.
That's not really a Government issue. There are antitrust rules and so on that potentially come into play (arm's length via CMA) but it's essentially a matter for the FA to set the rules on who competes in its tournaments.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
Disagree. If it was an issue like Bury FC going to the wall, I'd perhaps agree. But big six football no longer falls under the 'cultural and societal' bracket.
I don't think the government should necessarily block the big six from playing in this "Super League" but I think they should prevent them playing in the "Super League" as well as the Premier League. They can't have their cake and eat it.
Oh, OK. Happy to join in with you there. I'd just find some reasons to take away work permits. Say we won't give work permits for playing in a pretend league, sort of thing. So yuo can join it, but it has to be Phil Foden on his own.
If a Government will intervene to force football clubs to play in its preferred, mid-week European competition, what limits does it see on its power? Has taking back control of sovereignty gone to its head?
Andrew Musgrove Oliver Dowden: "Be in no doubt, if they [The Premier League] can't act - we will. We will put everything on the table to prevent this from happening."
A strong line from the government - let's see what happens.
#TheESL
I seriously doubt the Big Six thought the government would react so fiercely. It's one thing bullying FIFA and UEFA, or the FA and the Premier League. It's a bit different when you are facing the British Government, no longer hamstrung by EU law, and able to do almost anything it likes. Especially if you are reliant on foreigners coming in to play for you
Yes, I think the clubs hadn't counted on the government being so anti. The American owned ones probably didn't even figure on that happening.
Yes. They are used to a system where they demand cities build them a new stadium every 20 years for free under threat of moving to somewhere who will.
And are consequently pretty much universally hated ...
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
I think that's the point, this is cultural importance to the nation. It's like someone buying the LTA and then shifting Wimbledon to Asia because it would probably make more TV money in that time zone.
But Wimbledon never put itself up for sale Max. It never took anybody's money for development or to trump other competitions
England's football clubs sold themselves to the great applause of fans. Now they want to sell themselves and own themselves at the same time.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
Not that I'm convinced that the government will actually do anything about this ESL proposal (and it's sounding like a negotiating ploy anyway) but ...
... if the government could be seen to have made the big 6 back down and can credit Brexit with the threatened measures, then that makes it 2 pretty significant "man in the street" issues that can be directly linked to a Brexit dividend: the vaccine roll-out and saving English football from evil foreign owners.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
Disagree. If it was an issue like Bury FC going to the wall, I'd perhaps agree. But big six football no longer falls under the 'cultural and societal' bracket.
But if we talk of the Premier League as a British success story surely to essentially throw that all away to a foreign power would be detrimental to our economy. I see government intervention here akin to propping up a struggling steel or aviation industry.
A "fan led review" isn't "robust". It's a gesture.
I'm not criticising the Government on this, but the proposals will sink or swim as a commercial matter, influenced by UEFA and FIFA measures. The approach of national governments isn't really that relevant - they can launch as many "reviews" as they like.
I am fairly sure it'll sink, and in any event that this is all a negotiating ploy by the big boys for other changes to the Champions League format, and financial allocations.
Dowden and HMG will stop this and remarkably even the SNP endorse the statement
This has united the whole of the HOC
That's just MPs jumping on a bandwagon. Everyone knows 99% of football fans hate this, so no sane politician will say "hang on, let's hear them out..."
As I say, it doesn't matter how many MPs speak out and how many "fan led reviews" are launched. What stops this is a commercial deal within UEFA, who have a lot of leverage. If this made sense commercially, it'd happen. But it doesn't, and won't.
Sorry have you seen the amounts the clubs involved are being offered to sign up to this deal? By JP Morgan, a bank not known for wild outlandish and silly investments?
The mistaken Brexit forecasts reflect three separate but overlapping phenomena. The first is political capture by official forecasters. The UK Treasury and the Bank of England were, of course, not neutral players. International institutions, like the IMF and the OECD, have the UK government among their shareholders.
A second group got it wrong because they allowed their political preferences to take over their economic judgments. That's most of the others. Brexit has been the most emotional policy dispute in recent times. It drove some people to insanity. I know very few people who are were genuinely neutral. Almost everyone's expectation of the economic effects correlated 100% with their political beliefs.
A third group, largely economists, got it wrong because they relied on bad models.
Probably the best day on the Covid monitor since the pandemic began more than a year ago.
Hospitalisations have relentlessly come down. Today 179. Last seven Mondays (most recent first):
179 221 273 334 440 531 688
Let's hope for sub 200 per day for the remaining days of this week.
If hospital x 5% = death, then a run-rate of, say, 180 going in p/d implies 9 deaths p/d as likely figure in 2 or 3 weeks. (Assumes Covid deaths are all following a hospitalisation which is a fair assumption I should think.)
Also, FIFA are not likely to appreciate the government taking action are they? They hate governments taking actions against FAs, for instance, no matter the justification. Political interference in football and all that.
He got the headline he wanted in March, then immediately gave up.
What a charlatan.
It was actually worse than this. He overstated by miles his pre Covid weight - claimed it was 17.5 stones lol - so as to be able to exaggerate to great sympathy how much weight he'd lost due to the disease.
Only Philip Thompson swallowed this - and it ultimately (after a tumble with me) led to him having to make the ludicrous claim that Johnson (at just 5 feet 7) was as heavy as that due to being "all muscle and very little fat".
You are a liar.
I never said that he had "very little fat" so please stop telling lies.
You claimed that he wasn't fat enough to be 17.5 stone, I said I entirely believe it is plausible he is 17.5 stone. I said he'll have a mix of muscles (which is denser than fat) and fat (which he clearly has) to make it plausible to be 17.5 stone.
And quite frankly 17.5 stone isn't "that" much.
I think he's fat enough to be 17.5 stone, you don't. That's the difference.
17.5 stone for a short man is ginormous. Maradona at the nadir of his weight problems wasn't much more than that. And I'm afraid that in seeking to explain the inexplicable you did advance the notion of him being mainly muscle. It wasn't your finest hour.
Not that I go on about it to embarrass you. I'm not like that. First mention for at least 6 months.
17.5 stone is not ginormous. Its obese but guess what so is Boris. Its not even exceptionally obese.
Entirely feasible, he's a fat man who cycles. Entirely plausible he's that fat and you're rather ignorant in thinking he couldn't be that fat.
It's more than SIX stone overweight. C'mon. Get real. He was never that. He lied about it.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
I think that's the point, this is cultural importance to the nation. It's like someone buying the LTA and then shifting Wimbledon to Asia because it would probably make more TV money in that time zone.
But Wimbledon never put itself up for sale Max. It never took anybody's money for development or to trump other competitions
England's football clubs sold themselves to the great applause of fans. Now they want to sell themselves and own themselves at the same time.
The buyers have been completely defrauded.
Defrauded? The Glazers bought Man Utd with its own money piling the price of buying it in debt on the club which for a time made Man Utd less competitive in the transfer market. Their interest in Man Utd is currently worth $2bn. It is one of the deals of the century and I take my metaphorical hat off to them but to suggest that they have been "defrauded" because their interest went up another $200m this morning on the back of the ESL announcement is nonsense.
Like every business Football works in a regulatory environment. If that regulatory environment says you can't do certain things those are the rules of the game.
But anyway, re the politics of this 'superleague' thing, and cui bono, it got me musing about whether there is such a thing as Remainy football as distinct from Leavey football. At first I thought no, don’t be silly, but as I kept on determinedly considering the matter I had a change of heart and concluded that yes, yes there most certainly is, and it’s about the style of play.
When picturing the Remainy version of the game one sees something built around a coterie of diminutive, highly mobile ball players, deft of touch, slow to anger but prone to going down a bit too easily. Leavey football could not be more different. Here, the foundation is a brutish bunch of hard men at the back, good honest pros, and in front of them yet more good honest pros ready and willing to chase that long ball punted through.
The aesthetics of the first is probably superior, think that’s fair, but when it comes to what really matters, results, it’s if anything the other way around. I suspect most people realize this now.
Perhaps. On Remainy football vs Leavey football, this argument strikes me as another hash of somewheres vs anywheres. Those proposing the EPL are right up the anywheriest end of the spectrum, so much so as to alienate almost all of the people in their half of the spectrum.
Which brings up the old chestnut of what the Remainiest and Leaviest sports are.
Taking a selection of sports, I would propose the following from Remainiest to Leaviest:
Winter Sports Tennis Rugby Union Cricket Football Rugby League Darts
Ah but I sense you've just done a straight class thing there - and it does work for that. But remember that the Leave base is the WWC plus the shires of Middle England. It's dog track AND golf club - hence why it's dominant. And speaking of golf, that's a good example. It's very UN working class, but it's Leavey.
Yes, I have, but I had intended to bring in other parameters too, as you're rightly doing. I think I had once considerd golf's place and placed it just above rugby league, for exactly that reason. Because of the age thing. Also bowls: crown green above darts, flat green above football.
Crown green bowling's a funny one. I guess it has to be very very Leavey just for the simple reason that participants are elderly and the sport is concentrated in coastal towns.
It's basically a northern sport. It might be the leaviest, actually.
A "fan led review" isn't "robust". It's a gesture.
I'm not criticising the Government on this, but the proposals will sink or swim as a commercial matter, influenced by UEFA and FIFA measures. The approach of national governments isn't really that relevant - they can launch as many "reviews" as they like.
I am fairly sure it'll sink, and in any event that this is all a negotiating ploy by the big boys for other changes to the Champions League format, and financial allocations.
Dowden and HMG will stop this and remarkably even the SNP endorse the statement
This has united the whole of the HOC
That's just MPs jumping on a bandwagon. Everyone knows 99% of football fans hate this, so no sane politician will say "hang on, let's hear them out..."
As I say, it doesn't matter how many MPs speak out and how many "fan led reviews" are launched. What stops this is a commercial deal within UEFA, who have a lot of leverage. If this made sense commercially, it'd happen. But it doesn't, and won't.
Listening to the debate MPs are going to stop this if UEFA do not
Via what mechanism?
I don't think this proposal makes commercial sense in the first place as it's a product people don't want that will give rise to a weak competition for which there isn't a big enough market.
But, if I am wrong, all this "work permit" stuff is for the birds. If - as is the premise - Manchester United is a fantastic international brand that doesn't need the fans on the ground - they can just up sticks to Dubai.
Breaking news: Starmer was caught on an open mic talking to his entourage after the encounter with the landlord saying, "He was just some bigoted man who said he used to be Labour. You shouldn't have taken me to that pub. I think it was Sue's idea."
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
I think that's the point, this is cultural importance to the nation. It's like someone buying the LTA and then shifting Wimbledon to Asia because it would probably make more TV money in that time zone.
But Wimbledon never put itself up for sale Max. It never took anybody's money for development or to trump other competitions
England's football clubs sold themselves to the great applause of fans. Now they want to sell themselves and own themselves at the same time.
The buyers have been completely defrauded.
I have the world's smallest violin here -> 🎻
Look how cute it is.
Your small mindedness and stupidity really are astonishing.
You are completely crazy if you think there's a long list of investors out there willing to be fleeced of untold sums of money for nothing.
Go to Manchester and see the money that's been invested in City and its facilities by the current owners and the jobs they have created and supported as a result.
And now these people are to be told they do not own these assets after all. If you think the fans are unhappy now, wait until the investors leave, the money leaves, the jobs leave and the players leave.
Another way the government might fight back. Legal?
"Government will come under pressure not to award work permits to Premier League’s breakaway six for new foreign signings if the ESL comes to fruition. Would effectively prevent them from recruiting overseas players."
If HMG finds a way to do this, that collapses the Superleague
Or they just up sticks & move to Riyadh, or Dubai, or wherever.
I wouldn’t put it past them.
We've been through this, it just won't happen. Liverpool are never leaving Liverpool, and never going to Dubai or Shanghai. The clue is in the name
I'm not sure any of the Terrible Twelve could move, they are all so firmly attached to their home cities, and famous grounds, the San Siro, the Bernabeu, White Hart Lane - one of the joys of football, of course
What you could do is create an entirely new ESL team from scratch - Dubai Dildos? - and all the players from Arsenal or Spurs move there, but that's pretty bloody difficult, practically and logistically
No. You are wrong. People have tried starting new teams from scratch and it's too hard, as we've seen from MLS and the recent Chinese attempts.
But you can take someone else's football club and move it, as with MK Dons. Chelsea could be moved to a gleaming new stadium pretty much anywhere, and, as they'd take all their players, their membership of the Super League, and the vast majority of their recently acquired global support with them it could be pretty successful.
That's where this will end up. Some of the teams will stay put, but others will move.
How many NFL supporters continue to support a team when it leaves for a new city?
A "fan led review" isn't "robust". It's a gesture.
I'm not criticising the Government on this, but the proposals will sink or swim as a commercial matter, influenced by UEFA and FIFA measures. The approach of national governments isn't really that relevant - they can launch as many "reviews" as they like.
I am fairly sure it'll sink, and in any event that this is all a negotiating ploy by the big boys for other changes to the Champions League format, and financial allocations.
Dowden and HMG will stop this and remarkably even the SNP endorse the statement
This has united the whole of the HOC
That's just MPs jumping on a bandwagon. Everyone knows 99% of football fans hate this, so no sane politician will say "hang on, let's hear them out..."
As I say, it doesn't matter how many MPs speak out and how many "fan led reviews" are launched. What stops this is a commercial deal within UEFA, who have a lot of leverage. If this made sense commercially, it'd happen. But it doesn't, and won't.
Sorry have you seen the amounts the clubs involved are being offered to sign up to this deal? By JP Morgan, a bank not known for wild outlandish and silly investments?
Breaking news: Starmer was caught on an open mic talking to his entourage after the encounter with the landlord saying, "He was just some bigoted man who said he used to be Labour. You shouldn't have taken me to that pub. I think it was Sue's idea."
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
I think that's the point, this is cultural importance to the nation. It's like someone buying the LTA and then shifting Wimbledon to Asia because it would probably make more TV money in that time zone.
But Wimbledon never put itself up for sale Max. It never took anybody's money for development or to trump other competitions
England's football clubs sold themselves to the great applause of fans. Now they want to sell themselves and own themselves at the same time.
The buyers have been completely defrauded.
Defrauded? The Glazers bought Man Utd with its own money piling the price of buying it in debt on the club which for a time made Man Utd less competitive in the transfer market. Their interest in Man Utd is currently worth $2bn. It is one of the deals of the century and I take my metaphorical hat off to them but to suggest that they have been "defrauded" because their interest went up another $200m this morning on the back of the ESL announcement is nonsense.
Like every business Football works in a regulatory environment. If that regulatory environment says you can't do certain things those are the rules of the game.
Wow.
So you think that the UK government should force UK football clubs to enrich overseas organisations that make the EU look like a model of probity.
The mistaken Brexit forecasts reflect three separate but overlapping phenomena. The first is political capture by official forecasters. The UK Treasury and the Bank of England were, of course, not neutral players. International institutions, like the IMF and the OECD, have the UK government among their shareholders.
A second group got it wrong because they allowed their political preferences to take over their economic judgments. That's most of the others. Brexit has been the most emotional policy dispute in recent times. It drove some people to insanity. I know very few people who are were genuinely neutral. Almost everyone's expectation of the economic effects correlated 100% with their political beliefs.
A third group, largely economists, got it wrong because they relied on bad models.
This is exactly what I have been saying and predicting but even I would accept that it is much too early to make a considered judgment on the real world results. This is just another potentially "bad model". I think it will be right but it is no more than an educated guess and to pretend otherwise on the back of 2 months trade figures in the middle of a pandemic is frankly pretty stupid.
Also, FIFA are not likely to appreciate the government taking action are they? They hate governments taking actions against FAs, for instance, no matter the justification. Political interference in football and all that.
I suspect they will weep with gratitude, this time
But anyway, re the politics of this 'superleague' thing, and cui bono, it got me musing about whether there is such a thing as Remainy football as distinct from Leavey football. At first I thought no, don’t be silly, but as I kept on determinedly considering the matter I had a change of heart and concluded that yes, yes there most certainly is, and it’s about the style of play.
When picturing the Remainy version of the game one sees something built around a coterie of diminutive, highly mobile ball players, deft of touch, slow to anger but prone to going down a bit too easily. Leavey football could not be more different. Here, the foundation is a brutish bunch of hard men at the back, good honest pros, and in front of them yet more good honest pros ready and willing to chase that long ball punted through.
The aesthetics of the first is probably superior, think that’s fair, but when it comes to what really matters, results, it’s if anything the other way around. I suspect most people realize this now.
Perhaps. On Remainy football vs Leavey football, this argument strikes me as another hash of somewheres vs anywheres. Those proposing the EPL are right up the anywheriest end of the spectrum, so much so as to alienate almost all of the people in their half of the spectrum.
Which brings up the old chestnut of what the Remainiest and Leaviest sports are....
It's hardly a question of leavers vs remainers, though, is it ?
As the Atlantic points out, opposition to it is pan European, while many of the investors are the kind of 'wider world' types favoured by a subset of the leaver camp.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/04/european-super-league-football/618636/ ...Within hours of its announcement, the plan was condemned by British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and French President Emmanuel Macron. National governing bodies that run the game in individual countries across Europe threatened to suspend clubs that joined from their domestic competitions, and to bar players for those clubs from representing their country.
It is a remarkable moment of European unity, intended and unintended. Yet in many ways, the very idea of a breakaway super league also points to the disconnect that helps explain Brexit and other so-called populist movements in Europe: the sense of powerlessness and rupture.
The attempted breakaway is being led in large part by the English, whose teams are the richest in the world. But while six of the participating clubs are from England, only one of them is owned by an English person. Three are owned by Americans (Liverpool, Arsenal, and Manchester United); one by a Russian oligarch who no longer lives in London (Chelsea); and one by a Middle Eastern statelet, Abu Dhabi (Manchester City). If anything, this English-led revolution is a consequence of the English Premier League’s extraordinarily successful globalization....
It's globalism vs localism, that's remain vs leave redux.
Certainly that's part of it. But a significant chunk of the prime movers of Leave are "global buccaneering" types who bridle at what they see as the overregulated, feather bedded, stultifyingly orthodox environment of Europe under the EU.
Breaking news: Starmer was caught on an open mic talking to his entourage after the encounter with the landlord saying, "He was just some bigoted man who said he used to be Labour. You shouldn't have taken me to that pub. I think it was Sue's idea."
OMG - it's Gordon Starmergate!
I was actually driving David Jones on his 2010 re-election campaign when we heard it live on our car radio
We stopped and looked at each other and said, did Brown really say that woman is bigoted
Breaking news: Starmer was caught on an open mic talking to his entourage after the encounter with the landlord saying, "He was just some bigoted man who said he used to be Labour. You shouldn't have taken me to that pub. I think it was Sue's idea."
OMG - it's Gordon Starmergate!
I was actually driving David Jones on his 2010 re-election campaign when we heard it live on our car radio
We stopped and looked at each other and said, did Brown really say that woman is bigoted
Now we have Starmer repeating it
Looks like Starmer's for the early Bath! True colours showing through for Labour - they just can't help themselves.
Also, FIFA are not likely to appreciate the government taking action are they? They hate governments taking actions against FAs, for instance, no matter the justification. Political interference in football and all that.
I suspect they will weep with gratitude, this time
The statement "My message for them was clear: they have our full backing.
"But, be in no doubt, if they can't act we will. We will put everything on the table to prevent this from happening. We are examining every option from governance reform to competition law and mechanisms that allow football to take place."
Tells you everything they need to know - we won't be interfering except to keep UEFA and FIFA viable.
Breaking news: Starmer was caught on an open mic talking to his entourage after the encounter with the landlord saying, "He was just some bigoted man who said he used to be Labour. You shouldn't have taken me to that pub. I think it was Sue's idea."
OMG - it's Gordon Starmergate!
I was actually driving David Jones on his 2010 re-election campaign when we heard it live on our car radio
We stopped and looked at each other and said, did Brown really say that woman is bigoted
Breaking news: Starmer was caught on an open mic talking to his entourage after the encounter with the landlord saying, "He was just some bigoted man who said he used to be Labour. You shouldn't have taken me to that pub. I think it was Sue's idea."
OMG - it's Gordon Starmergate!
I was actually driving David Jones on his 2010 re-election campaign when we heard it live on our car radio
We stopped and looked at each other and said, did Brown really say that woman is bigoted
Now we have Starmer repeating it
Mr Wishy Washy.. Next week he will saying he is a stalwart of the Labour Party... and the open mike was fake news.
The ESL might turn out to be the stupidest move in football history
Simon Evans @sgevans · 23m UEFA's Danish exco member Jesper Moller says he expects Chelsea, Real Madrid and Man City to be kicked out of CL semis this week: "The clubs must go, and I expect that to happen on Friday. Then we have to find out how to finish (this season's) Champions League tournament"
The Trashy Twelve won't get their league, they will lose loads of money this season, and they are now widely hated. Brilliant. Not.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
I think that's the point, this is cultural importance to the nation. It's like someone buying the LTA and then shifting Wimbledon to Asia because it would probably make more TV money in that time zone.
But Wimbledon never put itself up for sale Max. It never took anybody's money for development or to trump other competitions
England's football clubs sold themselves to the great applause of fans. Now they want to sell themselves and own themselves at the same time.
The buyers have been completely defrauded.
Defrauded? The Glazers bought Man Utd with its own money piling the price of buying it in debt on the club which for a time made Man Utd less competitive in the transfer market. Their interest in Man Utd is currently worth $2bn. It is one of the deals of the century and I take my metaphorical hat off to them but to suggest that they have been "defrauded" because their interest went up another $200m this morning on the back of the ESL announcement is nonsense.
Like every business Football works in a regulatory environment. If that regulatory environment says you can't do certain things those are the rules of the game.
I don't like the Glazers any more than you but I'm sure it comes as a shock to them to discover they are, as Dowden put it 'the temporary custodians' of their clubs.
I'm sure it didn't say temporary custodian on the contract they signed.
A "fan led review" isn't "robust". It's a gesture.
I'm not criticising the Government on this, but the proposals will sink or swim as a commercial matter, influenced by UEFA and FIFA measures. The approach of national governments isn't really that relevant - they can launch as many "reviews" as they like.
I am fairly sure it'll sink, and in any event that this is all a negotiating ploy by the big boys for other changes to the Champions League format, and financial allocations.
Dowden and HMG will stop this and remarkably even the SNP endorse the statement
This has united the whole of the HOC
That's just MPs jumping on a bandwagon. Everyone knows 99% of football fans hate this, so no sane politician will say "hang on, let's hear them out..."
As I say, it doesn't matter how many MPs speak out and how many "fan led reviews" are launched. What stops this is a commercial deal within UEFA, who have a lot of leverage. If this made sense commercially, it'd happen. But it doesn't, and won't.
Sorry have you seen the amounts the clubs involved are being offered to sign up to this deal? By JP Morgan, a bank not known for wild outlandish and silly investments?
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
I think that's the point, this is cultural importance to the nation. It's like someone buying the LTA and then shifting Wimbledon to Asia because it would probably make more TV money in that time zone.
But Wimbledon never put itself up for sale Max. It never took anybody's money for development or to trump other competitions
England's football clubs sold themselves to the great applause of fans. Now they want to sell themselves and own themselves at the same time.
The buyers have been completely defrauded.
Defrauded? The Glazers bought Man Utd with its own money piling the price of buying it in debt on the club which for a time made Man Utd less competitive in the transfer market. Their interest in Man Utd is currently worth $2bn. It is one of the deals of the century and I take my metaphorical hat off to them but to suggest that they have been "defrauded" because their interest went up another $200m this morning on the back of the ESL announcement is nonsense.
Like every business Football works in a regulatory environment. If that regulatory environment says you can't do certain things those are the rules of the game.
Wow.
So you think that the UK government should force UK football clubs to enrich overseas organisations that make the EU look like a model of probity.
No, I didn't say that. What I am saying is that the government has a legitimate interest in this. UK plc has a serious trade deficit problem and football, specifically the EPL, is one of our more successful exports. They should be concerned if such a successful industry that generates billions of pounds of exports each year risks being undermined.
UEFA and FIFA are vile, corrupt organisations for which no one not getting a cut have very little time. This is about adequately protecting our domestic league as well as something that probably gives the UK a bigger profile around the world than anything else.
I must admit that - although I'm no supporter of the idea - I'm not that keen on the government deciding that it doesn't want private businesses choosing which league they wish to play in.
If the current owners cut their losses who on earth would buy these clubs? why buy and invest in an asset you cannot develop?
It should be fans voting with their wallets that decide the success - or failure - of this project. The government has no business in getting involved.
Total rubbish. The government has every right to get involved. This is a cultural and societal issue just as much as it is an economic one.
I think that's the point, this is cultural importance to the nation. It's like someone buying the LTA and then shifting Wimbledon to Asia because it would probably make more TV money in that time zone.
But Wimbledon never put itself up for sale Max. It never took anybody's money for development or to trump other competitions
England's football clubs sold themselves to the great applause of fans. Now they want to sell themselves and own themselves at the same time.
The buyers have been completely defrauded.
Defrauded? The Glazers bought Man Utd with its own money piling the price of buying it in debt on the club which for a time made Man Utd less competitive in the transfer market. Their interest in Man Utd is currently worth $2bn. It is one of the deals of the century and I take my metaphorical hat off to them but to suggest that they have been "defrauded" because their interest went up another $200m this morning on the back of the ESL announcement is nonsense.
Like every business Football works in a regulatory environment. If that regulatory environment says you can't do certain things those are the rules of the game.
I don't like the Glazers any more than you but I'm sure it comes as a shock to them to discover they are, as Dowden put it 'the temporary custodians' of their clubs.
I'm sure it didn't say temporary custodian on the contract they signed.
Well then they don't understand the great lineage of English football history. They don't understand the importance of relegation and promotion. And they don't even understand offside. Let them fuck off. The EPL will be fine
Breaking news: Starmer was caught on an open mic talking to his entourage after the encounter with the landlord saying, "He was just some bigoted man who said he used to be Labour. You shouldn't have taken me to that pub. I think it was Sue's idea."
OMG - it's Gordon Starmergate!
I was actually driving David Jones on his 2010 re-election campaign when we heard it live on our car radio
We stopped and looked at each other and said, did Brown really say that woman is bigoted
A "fan led review" isn't "robust". It's a gesture.
I'm not criticising the Government on this, but the proposals will sink or swim as a commercial matter, influenced by UEFA and FIFA measures. The approach of national governments isn't really that relevant - they can launch as many "reviews" as they like.
I am fairly sure it'll sink, and in any event that this is all a negotiating ploy by the big boys for other changes to the Champions League format, and financial allocations.
Dowden and HMG will stop this and remarkably even the SNP endorse the statement
This has united the whole of the HOC
That's just MPs jumping on a bandwagon. Everyone knows 99% of football fans hate this, so no sane politician will say "hang on, let's hear them out..."
As I say, it doesn't matter how many MPs speak out and how many "fan led reviews" are launched. What stops this is a commercial deal within UEFA, who have a lot of leverage. If this made sense commercially, it'd happen. But it doesn't, and won't.
Listening to the debate MPs are going to stop this if UEFA do not
Via what mechanism?
I don't think this proposal makes commercial sense in the first place as it's a product people don't want that will give rise to a weak competition for which there isn't a big enough market.
But, if I am wrong, all this "work permit" stuff is for the birds. If - as is the premise - Manchester United is a fantastic international brand that doesn't need the fans on the ground - they can just up sticks to Dubai.
There's near unanimity across the HOC including the SNP and Welsh mps to stop it
Comments
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-crown-representatives-to-help-government-get-value-for-money
Who on earth would be stupid enough to invest in it ever again?
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/nearly-every-india-to-toronto-flight-this-month-carried-covid-passengers
"A European Super League composed of some of Europe's best teams...And Spurs."
If they'd attempted to launch a product, with the top 6 clubs from England qualifying, then there wouldn't have been this uproar.
Very slowly.
I'm not criticising the Government on this, but the proposals will sink or swim as a commercial matter, influenced by UEFA and FIFA measures. The approach of national governments isn't really that relevant - they can launch as many "reviews" as they like.
I am fairly sure it'll sink, and in any event that this is all a negotiating ploy by the big boys for other changes to the Champions League format, and financial allocations.
Also bowls: crown green above darts, flat green above football.
Boris will be a pan-European hero and there will be enormous, ten metre high, quartz and iron statues of him outside every European football stadium. Quite ironic, really
Because, make no mistake, if the English Six have to pull out of the ESL, that's it. It's over. Without England and Germany, no chance it works
Can I put a new roof on? Let's ask the Manc football supporters trust who have contributed nothing first.
FFS.
This has united the whole of the HOC
Not that I go on about it to embarrass you. I'm not like that. First mention for at least 6 months.
https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1384178498307190796
The clubs could have launched their own breakaway league but taken their chances on qualification, exactly as happened when the PL was launched. They could have cut out UEFA, owned the league via the same way the PL is owned. Awarded qualification based upon the PL structure, with UEFA simply gone from the mix. Just as the PL cut out the Football League.
Instead they went for an anticompetitive scheme.
I suggested this morning this could end up an issue for the Competition and Market's Authority as a result.
All they had to do was not go for a closed shop and this could have worked.
The government is right to step in. it would be the same if some rapacious trillionaire Chinaman came in and bought all the Nash Terraces and then said Oh I'm shipping them to Guandong.
No.
They are used to a system where they demand cities build them a new stadium every 20 years for free under threat of moving to somewhere who will.
Very little of that money ends up going back into football.
Entirely feasible, he's a fat man who cycles. Entirely plausible he's that fat and you're rather ignorant in thinking he couldn't be that fat.
As the Atlantic points out, opposition to it is pan European, while many of the investors are the kind of 'wider world' types favoured by a subset of the leaver camp.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/04/european-super-league-football/618636/
...Within hours of its announcement, the plan was condemned by British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and French President Emmanuel Macron. National governing bodies that run the game in individual countries across Europe threatened to suspend clubs that joined from their domestic competitions, and to bar players for those clubs from representing their country.
It is a remarkable moment of European unity, intended and unintended. Yet in many ways, the very idea of a breakaway super league also points to the disconnect that helps explain Brexit and other so-called populist movements in Europe: the sense of powerlessness and rupture.
The attempted breakaway is being led in large part by the English, whose teams are the richest in the world. But while six of the participating clubs are from England, only one of them is owned by an English person. Three are owned by Americans (Liverpool, Arsenal, and Manchester United); one by a Russian oligarch who no longer lives in London (Chelsea); and one by a Middle Eastern statelet, Abu Dhabi (Manchester City). If anything, this English-led revolution is a consequence of the English Premier League’s extraordinarily successful globalization....
If it was an issue like Bury FC going to the wall, I'd perhaps agree. But big six football no longer falls under the 'cultural and societal' bracket.
Because their ownership of the club is effectively not worth the paper it is written on. Thanks for your billions. Thanks for your contribution. But we own this, really.
Its like something Vladimir Putin does. And that's why Russia is where Russia is, economically.
As I say, it doesn't matter how many MPs speak out and how many "fan led reviews" are launched. What stops this is a commercial deal within UEFA, who have a lot of leverage. If this made sense commercially, it'd happen. But it doesn't, and won't.
CON: 44% (+1)
LAB: 34% (-2)
LDEM: 10% (+3)
GRN: 4% (-1)
REFUK: 3% (-)
via
@RedfieldWilton
, 19 Apr
Chgs. w/ 12 Apr"
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1384180322120605696
I'll be very impressed if their PR is able to somehow get around the fact that this is all about a core of clubs thinking they are too good to play lesser clubs, and also too special to face consequences if they become less good.
Albeit, I have a hunch that might not be applied too zealously in this case...
But you can take someone else's football club and move it, as with MK Dons. Chelsea could be moved to a gleaming new stadium pretty much anywhere, and, as they'd take all their players, their membership of the Super League, and the vast majority of their recently acquired global support with them it could be pretty successful.
That's where this will end up. Some of the teams will stay put, but others will move.
Coming up with a closed shop alternative isn't a solution.
Cash flow matters to businesses. Words in Parliament don't pay bills. Does the government really have enough Pfizer second doses?
The site in London I've been asked to attend has no appointments and is not doing Pfizer vaccinations. According to my GP there is no Pfizer expected in the Barrow region. So I just have to wait. Meanwhile my 12 week anniversary is coming up with my GP unable to tell me what will happen if I pass that without a second dose appointment. I can't book on the main NHS website either. If I type in my NHS number it says I am ineligible as I had my first dose through a GP. If I type in just my name and postcode it says it has no record of me.
I really don't think I can bear it if I have to go through the whole being locked down again for months on end while the NHS gets its shit together. I would rather walk into the fucking sea than continue with this purgatory. What the fuck is the point of life like this.
England's football clubs sold themselves to the great applause of fans. Now they want to sell themselves and own themselves at the same time.
The buyers have been completely defrauded.
I'd just find some reasons to take away work permits. Say we won't give work permits for playing in a pretend league, sort of thing. So yuo can join it, but it has to be Phil Foden on his own.
Look how cute it is.
... if the government could be seen to have made the big 6 back down and can credit Brexit with the threatened measures, then that makes it 2 pretty significant "man in the street" issues that can be directly linked to a Brexit dividend: the vaccine roll-out and saving English football from evil foreign owners.
The mistaken Brexit forecasts reflect three separate but overlapping phenomena. The first is political capture by official forecasters. The UK Treasury and the Bank of England were, of course, not neutral players. International institutions, like the IMF and the OECD, have the UK government among their shareholders.
A second group got it wrong because they allowed their political preferences to take over their economic judgments. That's most of the others. Brexit has been the most emotional policy dispute in recent times. It drove some people to insanity. I know very few people who are were genuinely neutral. Almost everyone's expectation of the economic effects correlated 100% with their political beliefs.
A third group, largely economists, got it wrong because they relied on bad models.
179
221
273
334
440
531
688
Let's hope for sub 200 per day for the remaining days of this week.
If hospital x 5% = death, then a run-rate of, say, 180 going in p/d implies 9 deaths p/d as likely figure in 2 or 3 weeks. (Assumes Covid deaths are all following a hospitalisation which is a fair assumption I should think.)
Like every business Football works in a regulatory environment. If that regulatory environment says you can't do certain things those are the rules of the game.
I don't think this proposal makes commercial sense in the first place as it's a product people don't want that will give rise to a weak competition for which there isn't a big enough market.
But, if I am wrong, all this "work permit" stuff is for the birds. If - as is the premise - Manchester United is a fantastic international brand that doesn't need the fans on the ground - they can just up sticks to Dubai.
Affable, quite eloquent, seems normal but determined. Lucid and clear
You are completely crazy if you think there's a long list of investors out there willing to be fleeced of untold sums of money for nothing.
Go to Manchester and see the money that's been invested in City and its facilities by the current owners and the jobs they have created and supported as a result.
And now these people are to be told they do not own these assets after all. If you think the fans are unhappy now, wait until the investors leave, the money leaves, the jobs leave and the players leave.
So you think that the UK government should force UK football clubs to enrich overseas organisations that make the EU look like a model of probity.
We stopped and looked at each other and said, did Brown really say that woman is bigoted
Now we have Starmer repeating it
Approve: 47% (+4)
Disapprove: 32% (-2)
Net: +15% (+6)
Changes +/- 12 April
2nd highest Net Approval since May 2020
https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1384180024811556872?s=20
"But, be in no doubt, if they can't act we will. We will put everything on the table to prevent this from happening. We are examining every option from governance reform to competition law and mechanisms that allow football to take place."
Tells you everything they need to know - we won't be interfering except to keep UEFA and FIFA viable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvFZjo5PgG0
Wishy washy thinking. He knows his own mind....
Simon Evans
@sgevans
· 23m
UEFA's Danish exco member Jesper Moller says he expects Chelsea, Real Madrid and Man City to be kicked out of CL semis this week: "The clubs must go, and I expect that to happen on Friday. Then we have to find out how to finish (this season's) Champions League tournament"
The Trashy Twelve won't get their league, they will lose loads of money this season, and they are now widely hated. Brilliant. Not.
Can I really get fined for not filling in such a form if it is not requested?
I'm sure it didn't say temporary custodian on the contract they signed.
UEFA and FIFA are vile, corrupt organisations for which no one not getting a cut have very little time. This is about adequately protecting our domestic league as well as something that probably gives the UK a bigger profile around the world than anything else.
NEW THREAD
Where there is a will there is a way