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Alba just get 3% in first Scottish poll since Salmond launched his new party – politicalbetting.com

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  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,706
    edited April 2021
    I think for Alba it is going to hinge on whether Salmond can squeeze an invite to one of the TV debates somewhere.

    But as someone else said below, too early to write off a party started a week ago.


    Also, is the Survation actually for Yes, narrowly? Certainly Britain Elects twitter feed says Yes 45%, No 44%, Survation
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,431

    Off topic, one of our neighbours has just replaced his lawn with plastic grass.

    First against the wall.

    It’ll be a long wall...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited April 2021
    eek said:

    isam said:

    A PB travel forum request:

    I'm looking to book a few nights in a smart hotel in the central London in September to belatedly celebrate our ruby wedding anniversary. I'm thinking £400-£500 per night - a cut above our usual Novotel.

    Anybody got any recommendations?

    Thanks!

    I stayed at a hotel called The Landmark last January, the Winter Gardens were cool, that’s the reason I booked it, and it’s convenient for Regents Park, Hampstead & the WestEnd shops. My girlfriend ordered a drink and the bottom fell out of the glass and soaked her clothes, which ruined the night a bit. I’m not a London hotel expert, the only other one I’ve stayed in is the Soho, which might be a bit young for you I’m guessing.

    Here’s a pic of the Winter Gardens from my insta!


    Used to use the Landmark for breakfast meetings - mainly because Marylebone station is opposite so I could be there for 8am without any issue.
    It is almost pointless recommending (or booking) a London hotel right now. You have no idea how many of your favourite restaurants, theatres, bars, museums, galleries, pubs will be open when you arrive. And without those, any central London hotel is infinitely overpriced, as what you are paying for is that fantastic location. It is not a fantastic location if half or more of that shit is shut.

    Without that you are paying for a nice Airbnb, with great bed linen, in a deserted city centre. That is not worth £50 a night let alone £500

    WAIT. Hotels will open up soon and they will offer amazing discounts to entice customers. WAIT for THAT. Due to lack of foreign tourists they are likely to remain remarkably cheap into 2022. Drive a hard bargain
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Who’d have thought it? Vanity project led by a has-been sex pest fails to appeal to voters.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    As expected Alba is a damp squib.
    I predicted as much.

    It is REALLY hard to get over 5% as a new party, especially when your leader is a known (but legally unblemished) sex pest.

    What is disappointing from a Unionist perspective is no obvious “bounce” for Anas Sarwar and little damage to the SNP. And the Greens appear completely unscathed.

    No, it's gravy for unionists. The Nationalist cause is schismatized, and seems bitterly divided, and Boris can dismiss the new Holyrood as a gamed system

    If Alba do this badly, Salmond has done terrible damage to indy. We shall see
    The way this poll in the header looks, the embarrassing and degrading mess over the last months has not dampened enthusiasm for an SNP majority. The SNP are through the worst too and are likely to get stronger.
    Schisms are bad. I know you want the SNP to win so Scotland goes indy to punish us for voting Brexit, but, schisms are bad. They generally hinder the cause

    It would be surprising, but not impossible, if this were an exception, but so far it looks like proving the rule

    I readily admit that if Alba gets 15 seats on the List (and the SNP gets zillions of constituency seats) then that will boost the indy cause. Boris will still refuse a vote, but there is then a chance that Scotland will surge into passive mass resistance and Mahatama Gandhi stylee bullshit.

    And then, after five years, the YES vote could be consistently over 60% and Britain is done for. Certainly possible
    Mahatma Gandhi stylee won in the end. Hardly any Brits were killed by Indian terrorists.
    Though lots of Indians were.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    P.s. As I recall even CUK managed 6-7% in the first polls.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,431
    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    So why isn’t this murder attracting the same opprobrium as that of Sarah Everard?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-56569863
    Genuine question as this seemed equally horrifying.

    Agree but (1) the victim is not a white middle class woman living in Zones 1-2 London and working in a media industry job and (2) the perpetrator is an illegal asylum seeker who should have been kicked out of the country but wasn't so both the authorities and the left are not too keen on having the story being publicised.
    The left, like the daily tabloid newspapers?
    Plenty of coverage on the BBC and other media outlets. Not quite sure what point @MrEd is trying to make.
    There's this slightly irritating belief that is seen on all sides of the political spectrum that it's all a big conspiracy*.

    The reality is that algorithms for selling advertising space, based on time to read story, engagement rates, shares, etc., determine what gets shown.

    Sarah Eversted, for one reason or another got traction. This other story did not.

    This was not to do with "The Left" covering it up. It was to do with which stories garnered click throughs and shares and sold advertising.

    * See the Left blaming the media for covering up stories about Palestine... when the reality is that stories about Palestine don't sell advertising, when stories about Meghan do.
    I’m not alleging a conspiracy, but where are all the vigils? I genuinely don’t get this difference.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870
    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    So why isn’t this murder attracting the same opprobrium as that of Sarah Everard?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-56569863
    Genuine question as this seemed equally horrifying.

    Agree but (1) the victim is not a white middle class woman living in Zones 1-2 London and working in a media industry job and (2) the perpetrator is an illegal asylum seeker who should have been kicked out of the country but wasn't so both the authorities and the left are not too keen on having the story being publicised.
    The left, like the daily tabloid newspapers?
    Plenty of coverage on the BBC and other media outlets. Not quite sure what point @MrEd is trying to make.
    Was there plenty of coverage?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380

    Who’d have thought it? Vanity project led by a has-been sex pest fails to appeal to voters.

    The gender breakdown of that 3% would be interesting.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851
    It's depressing how little damage the SNP's behaviour is doing to them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    P.s. As I recall even CUK managed 6-7% in the first polls.

    They weren’t up against a bunch of single issue populist fanatics ostensibly on the same side as them.

    If you were a Scottish Sindy voter with an open mind in the subject - say, @Alistair - what reason would you have for voting for Alex Salmond’s ego trip rather than the Greens or the Real Thing?

    Then remember most people do not have an open mind in Salmond and you begin to wonder if 3% isn’t optimistic.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,547
    Leon said:

    Took my eldest daughter to get some toys for her new (very adorable) puppy

    On the way we somehow got talking about cosmology. My older daughter is 14

    Presuming she knew very little of the intricacies, I vaguely mentioned the infinite multiverse theory, expecting her to be gobsmacked or incomprehending or to revert to her default option of "Dad shut up stop talking bollocks"

    Instead she said, quite calmly, "Yes but one of the problems with the infinite parallel universes theory is that there must be a universe where this theory does not apply, and thus there is a universe within the multiverse which has no multiverse, so how do you solve that paradox?"

    I was simultaneously silenced, but also (without showing her) very very proud.

    Then we got new puppy chews




    However the problem then arises thus: if there are IPUs then it is axiomatic that the infinity includes the domain with which the domain is consistent, which in this case is everything. An infinite number of numbers, for example, does not mean that the sequence of numbers must include a rabbit, or because it is infinite must in the end run out of prime numbers, whereas on your daughter's excellent and profound thinking it either can or must. That which is cannot be existentially contradictory to itself. No amount of IPUs can justify a square circle or the existence of a member which is not a member.

    She's right about this though: IPUs are, as she might say, bollocks.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    stodge said:



    Lead story on main news of the day? I didn’t see it.

    Doesn't have to be the main story to get coverage.

    Should it have been the lead story of the day? That's an editorial decision for newspapers and the media. It's a terrible crime and yes of course it has been reported.

    I'm still not quite sure what's being implied here.
    It's a pretty standard comedic trope of course that the more attractive and/or white victims get more coverage in the media, but I think in these things the biggest factor, as perhaps with Covid, is just pure chance - many things equally deserving of those that got attention do not get that attention. What else is happening in the news, what larger issues might reasonably or unreasonably be factored into the reporting on a story, sometimes things just land and then build momentum as a story.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    P.s. As I recall even CUK managed 6-7% in the first polls.

    About double!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    As expected Alba is a damp squib.
    I predicted as much.

    It is REALLY hard to get over 5% as a new party, especially when your leader is a known (but legally unblemished) sex pest.

    What is disappointing from a Unionist perspective is no obvious “bounce” for Anas Sarwar and little damage to the SNP. And the Greens appear completely unscathed.

    No, it's gravy for unionists. The Nationalist cause is schismatized, and seems bitterly divided, and Boris can dismiss the new Holyrood as a gamed system

    If Alba do this badly, Salmond has done terrible damage to indy. We shall see
    The way this poll in the header looks, the embarrassing and degrading mess over the last months has not dampened enthusiasm for an SNP majority. The SNP are through the worst too and are likely to get stronger.
    Schisms are bad. I know you want the SNP to win so Scotland goes indy to punish us for voting Brexit, but, schisms are bad. They generally hinder the cause

    It would be surprising, but not impossible, if this were an exception, but so far it looks like proving the rule

    I readily admit that if Alba gets 15 seats on the List (and the SNP gets zillions of constituency seats) then that will boost the indy cause. Boris will still refuse a vote, but there is then a chance that Scotland will surge into passive mass resistance and Mahatama Gandhi stylee bullshit.

    And then, after five years, the YES vote could be consistently over 60% and Britain is done for. Certainly possible
    Nah, I don't want Indy Scotland as it condemns rUK to the Tories for a generation.

    My choice doesn't matter though. It is a decision for Scotland and my view is of no significance.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Took my eldest daughter to get some toys for her new (very adorable) puppy

    On the way we somehow got talking about cosmology. My older daughter is 14

    Presuming she knew very little of the intricacies, I vaguely mentioned the infinite multiverse theory, expecting her to be gobsmacked or incomprehending or to revert to her default option of "Dad shut up stop talking bollocks"

    Instead she said, quite calmly, "Yes but one of the problems with the infinite parallel universes theory is that there must be a universe where this theory does not apply, and thus there is a universe within the multiverse which has no multiverse, so how do you solve that paradox?"

    I was simultaneously silenced, but also (without showing her) very very proud.

    Then we got new puppy chews




    However the problem then arises thus: if there are IPUs then it is axiomatic that the infinity includes the domain with which the domain is consistent, which in this case is everything. An infinite number of numbers, for example, does not mean that the sequence of numbers must include a rabbit, or because it is infinite must in the end run out of prime numbers, whereas on your daughter's excellent and profound thinking it either can or must. That which is cannot be existentially contradictory to itself. No amount of IPUs can justify a square circle or the existence of a member which is not a member.

    She's right about this though: IPUs are, as she might say, bollocks.
    Philosophically, I am not at all sure you're right

    What I do know is:

    GO MY OLDER 14 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER

    *proud father"
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893


    I’m not alleging a conspiracy, but where are all the vigils? I genuinely don’t get this difference.

    Presumably other women have been murdered since 1st September 2020 and, let's be blunt, they didn't get vigils either.

    It is that undefinable (as distinct from politically motivated as some suggest) event that triggers a wider response. The murder of Lorraine Cox was and sounds horrendous but as you say at the time it didn't resonate.

    One might argue we know of other unarmed black men who have been killed by white Police officers in the US but the George Floyd death and its manner triggered a stronger response.

    Why some incidents and events trigger such a response and other equally horrible deaths don't I'm not certain but the fact is that's how the world operates.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    P.s. As I recall even CUK managed 6-7% in the first polls.

    And managed 3% or so at election, so The Salmond Party or whatever it is called will need a reverse trajectory.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Took my eldest daughter to get some toys for her new (very adorable) puppy

    On the way we somehow got talking about cosmology. My older daughter is 14

    Presuming she knew very little of the intricacies, I vaguely mentioned the infinite multiverse theory, expecting her to be gobsmacked or incomprehending or to revert to her default option of "Dad shut up stop talking bollocks"

    Instead she said, quite calmly, "Yes but one of the problems with the infinite parallel universes theory is that there must be a universe where this theory does not apply, and thus there is a universe within the multiverse which has no multiverse, so how do you solve that paradox?"

    I was simultaneously silenced, but also (without showing her) very very proud.

    Then we got new puppy chews




    However the problem then arises thus: if there are IPUs then it is axiomatic that the infinity includes the domain with which the domain is consistent, which in this case is everything. An infinite number of numbers, for example, does not mean that the sequence of numbers must include a rabbit, or because it is infinite must in the end run out of prime numbers, whereas on your daughter's excellent and profound thinking it either can or must. That which is cannot be existentially contradictory to itself. No amount of IPUs can justify a square circle or the existence of a member which is not a member.

    She's right about this though: IPUs are, as she might say, bollocks.
    9:15 pm on a Bank Holiday eve and infinite multiverses are being debated?

    Only on PB. Only on PB... :smile:
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,263

    Off topic, one of our neighbours has just replaced his lawn with plastic grass.

    First against the wall.

    A quarterback was asked how astroturf compared to grass. He said he couldn't say because he'd never smoked astroturf.

    The Winter Garden at the Landmark featured in the opening sequence of the second series of Sherlock.

    Is the Cadogan still popular with lads from the local sorting office?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,431
    kle4 said:

    stodge said:



    Lead story on main news of the day? I didn’t see it.

    Doesn't have to be the main story to get coverage.

    Should it have been the lead story of the day? That's an editorial decision for newspapers and the media. It's a terrible crime and yes of course it has been reported.

    I'm still not quite sure what's being implied here.
    It's a pretty standard comedic trope of course that the more attractive and/or white victims get more coverage in the media, but I think in these things the biggest factor, as perhaps with Covid, is just pure chance - many things equally deserving of those that got attention do not get that attention. What else is happening in the news, what larger issues might reasonably or unreasonably be factored into the reporting on a story, sometimes things just land and then build momentum as a story.
    BBC chose to go with the far right met officer. Is this then a London effect? Or more met bashing and thus allied to the Sarah everard story? It’s not just the news/media. Why isn’t twitter combusting?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Floater said:
    It's not the Cold War anymore, Donetsk, you don't need to put 'People's Republic' in the name.

    Just go with 'The totally not Russian Proxy Republic.'
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,547
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Took my eldest daughter to get some toys for her new (very adorable) puppy

    On the way we somehow got talking about cosmology. My older daughter is 14

    Presuming she knew very little of the intricacies, I vaguely mentioned the infinite multiverse theory, expecting her to be gobsmacked or incomprehending or to revert to her default option of "Dad shut up stop talking bollocks"

    Instead she said, quite calmly, "Yes but one of the problems with the infinite parallel universes theory is that there must be a universe where this theory does not apply, and thus there is a universe within the multiverse which has no multiverse, so how do you solve that paradox?"

    I was simultaneously silenced, but also (without showing her) very very proud.

    Then we got new puppy chews




    However the problem then arises thus: if there are IPUs then it is axiomatic that the infinity includes the domain with which the domain is consistent, which in this case is everything. An infinite number of numbers, for example, does not mean that the sequence of numbers must include a rabbit, or because it is infinite must in the end run out of prime numbers, whereas on your daughter's excellent and profound thinking it either can or must. That which is cannot be existentially contradictory to itself. No amount of IPUs can justify a square circle or the existence of a member which is not a member.

    She's right about this though: IPUs are, as she might say, bollocks.
    Philosophically, I am not at all sure you're right

    What I do know is:

    GO MY OLDER 14 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER

    *proud father"
    Absolutely. Get her on the case.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:
    It's not the Cold War anymore, Donetsk, you don't need to put 'People's Republic' in the name.

    Just go with 'The totally not Russian Proxy Republic.'
    How about ‘Putinist Stooges’ Republic?”
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,547

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Took my eldest daughter to get some toys for her new (very adorable) puppy

    On the way we somehow got talking about cosmology. My older daughter is 14

    Presuming she knew very little of the intricacies, I vaguely mentioned the infinite multiverse theory, expecting her to be gobsmacked or incomprehending or to revert to her default option of "Dad shut up stop talking bollocks"

    Instead she said, quite calmly, "Yes but one of the problems with the infinite parallel universes theory is that there must be a universe where this theory does not apply, and thus there is a universe within the multiverse which has no multiverse, so how do you solve that paradox?"

    I was simultaneously silenced, but also (without showing her) very very proud.

    Then we got new puppy chews




    However the problem then arises thus: if there are IPUs then it is axiomatic that the infinity includes the domain with which the domain is consistent, which in this case is everything. An infinite number of numbers, for example, does not mean that the sequence of numbers must include a rabbit, or because it is infinite must in the end run out of prime numbers, whereas on your daughter's excellent and profound thinking it either can or must. That which is cannot be existentially contradictory to itself. No amount of IPUs can justify a square circle or the existence of a member which is not a member.

    She's right about this though: IPUs are, as she might say, bollocks.
    9:15 pm on a Bank Holiday eve and infinite multiverses are being debated?

    Only on PB. Only on PB... :smile:
    Well if it were true it would have to happen in an unlimited number of places as well as here.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,431
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Took my eldest daughter to get some toys for her new (very adorable) puppy

    On the way we somehow got talking about cosmology. My older daughter is 14

    Presuming she knew very little of the intricacies, I vaguely mentioned the infinite multiverse theory, expecting her to be gobsmacked or incomprehending or to revert to her default option of "Dad shut up stop talking bollocks"

    Instead she said, quite calmly, "Yes but one of the problems with the infinite parallel universes theory is that there must be a universe where this theory does not apply, and thus there is a universe within the multiverse which has no multiverse, so how do you solve that paradox?"

    I was simultaneously silenced, but also (without showing her) very very proud.

    Then we got new puppy chews




    However the problem then arises thus: if there are IPUs then it is axiomatic that the infinity includes the domain with which the domain is consistent, which in this case is everything. An infinite number of numbers, for example, does not mean that the sequence of numbers must include a rabbit, or because it is infinite must in the end run out of prime numbers, whereas on your daughter's excellent and profound thinking it either can or must. That which is cannot be existentially contradictory to itself. No amount of IPUs can justify a square circle or the existence of a member which is not a member.

    She's right about this though: IPUs are, as she might say, bollocks.
    9:15 pm on a Bank Holiday eve and infinite multiverses are being debated?

    Only on PB. Only on PB... :smile:
    Well if it were true it would have to happen in an unlimited number of places as well as here.

    I think the infinite* variety is why I love this place so much. That and the occasional really good betting tips. But mainly the variety.

    *Ok clearly not infinite, but quite varied...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:
    It's not the Cold War anymore, Donetsk, you don't need to put 'People's Republic' in the name.

    Just go with 'The totally not Russian Proxy Republic.'
    How about ‘Putinist Stooges’ Republic?”
    I'm sure they would have no problem finding someone in Donetsk willing to be the next Ramzan Kadyrov.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,672

    A PB travel forum request:

    I'm looking to book a few nights in a smart hotel in the central London in September to belatedly celebrate our ruby wedding anniversary. I'm thinking £400-£500 per night - a cut above our usual Novotel.

    Anybody got any recommendations?

    Thanks!

    I take it you're buying the good lady a ruby also? One night less in your hotel will get you an extremely nice one.

    Congratulations btw!
    Oh yes, there's a ruby or two on the way... made more difficult by the current inaccessibility of jewellers.

    And thanks!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,672

    A PB travel forum request:

    I'm looking to book a few nights in a smart hotel in the central London in September to belatedly celebrate our ruby wedding anniversary. I'm thinking £400-£500 per night - a cut above our usual Novotel.

    Anybody got any recommendations?

    Thanks!

    Travelodge Ilford...

    April Fool!
    .

    Too late.

    I already booked it!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited April 2021
    Turns out there are 22 Republics within Russia. I'd not recommending listing them all be a pub quiz question.

    The state also includes the 'Jewish Autonomous Oblast' (though Jews now make up less than 1% of the population). Thanks wiki!

    This is the flag of the Oblast

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,672
    Thanks for all the hotel suggestions - much obliged!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893


    BBC chose to go with the far right met officer. Is this then a London effect? Or more met bashing and thus allied to the Sarah everard story? It’s not just the news/media. Why isn’t twitter combusting?

    Lorraine Cox was murdered in Exeter - it may well have been the top story on the South West England Regional news. It's the top story on the BBC Devon news page and the number two story on the BBC England pages.

    Do you think the BBC is deliberately anti-Metropolitan Police? I'm not on and don't follow Twitter so I have no idea how the case of Benjamin Hannam is playing out on social media. The fact he's the first serving officer convicted of terrorism is worthy of report, don't you think, or should it have been covered up to protect the overall integrity of the Police force?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Took my eldest daughter to get some toys for her new (very adorable) puppy

    On the way we somehow got talking about cosmology. My older daughter is 14

    Presuming she knew very little of the intricacies, I vaguely mentioned the infinite multiverse theory, expecting her to be gobsmacked or incomprehending or to revert to her default option of "Dad shut up stop talking bollocks"

    Instead she said, quite calmly, "Yes but one of the problems with the infinite parallel universes theory is that there must be a universe where this theory does not apply, and thus there is a universe within the multiverse which has no multiverse, so how do you solve that paradox?"

    I was simultaneously silenced, but also (without showing her) very very proud.

    Then we got new puppy chews




    However the problem then arises thus: if there are IPUs then it is axiomatic that the infinity includes the domain with which the domain is consistent, which in this case is everything. An infinite number of numbers, for example, does not mean that the sequence of numbers must include a rabbit, or because it is infinite must in the end run out of prime numbers, whereas on your daughter's excellent and profound thinking it either can or must. That which is cannot be existentially contradictory to itself. No amount of IPUs can justify a square circle or the existence of a member which is not a member.

    She's right about this though: IPUs are, as she might say, bollocks.
    9:15 pm on a Bank Holiday eve and infinite multiverses are being debated?

    Only on PB. Only on PB... :smile:
    Well if it were true it would have to happen in an unlimited number of places as well as here.

    It sounds like a variation of Russell's Paradox, however I would expect that the Weak Anthropic Principle precludes us from living in a multiverse in which such a situation could arise. Of course, if she is positing a Tegmarkian Level 4 Universe then it may be that Godel's Theorem applies to the physical universe rather than just Mathematics and so we could never prove her right or wrong.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    kle4 said:

    Turns out there are 22 Republics within Russia. I'd not recommending listing them all be a pub quiz question.

    Chechnya
    Dagestan,
    Tartarstan
    Buriyatia

    Then I am done...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,662
    edited April 2021
    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,431
    stodge said:


    BBC chose to go with the far right met officer. Is this then a London effect? Or more met bashing and thus allied to the Sarah everard story? It’s not just the news/media. Why isn’t twitter combusting?

    Lorraine Cox was murdered in Exeter - it may well have been the top story on the South West England Regional news. It's the top story on the BBC Devon news page and the number two story on the BBC England pages.

    Do you think the BBC is deliberately anti-Metropolitan Police? I'm not on and don't follow Twitter so I have no idea how the case of Benjamin Hannam is playing out on social media. The fact he's the first serving officer convicted of terrorism is worthy of report, don't you think, or should it have been covered up to protect the overall integrity of the Police force?
    Convicted of being a member of a far right group, and possessing some materials about knife fighting etc. I don’t know the answers, but in the context that barely two weeks ago twitter etc was going nuts about the everard case, and there were vigils etc, I’m struck that no one is linking the cases at all.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    So why isn’t this murder attracting the same opprobrium as that of Sarah Everard?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-56569863
    Genuine question as this seemed equally horrifying.

    Agree but (1) the victim is not a white middle class woman living in Zones 1-2 London and working in a media industry job and (2) the perpetrator is an illegal asylum seeker who should have been kicked out of the country but wasn't so both the authorities and the left are not too keen on having the story being publicised.
    Point 1 is the first half of the explanation, but the second is that Sarah Everard was abducted. Lorraine Cox appears to have been persuaded to go back to her killer's home. Both were cruel murders, but the former involved, from the point of view of the media and the wider public that consume it, a more sympathetic victim and far more sensational circumstances.

    If point 2 had anything to do with it then why would the majority of the press that is NOT particularly forgiving of failed asylum seekers being left at liberty to commit horrendous crimes not pick up the ball and run with this?

    Whilst we are fortunate not to live in an atypically brutal society, people are nonetheless murdered regularly, and killings therefore need to be exceptional to achieve notoriety. The depressing monotony of young men stabbed to death on the streets, and women bludgeoned to death by violent partners at home, goes mostly unnoticed because society is used to it. Like deaths from Winter flu or road traffic accidents, if it doesn't involve you personally, it's just background noise. One column at the bottom of page 14 of a newspaper. Statistics.
    I think the fact that Lorraine Cox went back might be part of the reason but only a small part. The bigger part I would argue is the victim is of a similar profile to many of the journalists that would be writing about her. Journalists tend to focus on what they recognise most. How many pictures did we have of North London residents clapping during the lockdowns?

    As for Point 2, simple question (and this one is for @stodge as well). Let's say this was a Kurdish woman killed by a white man. Do we think The Guardian would have similarly relegated the story (ps try finding it on their website)?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    FA Cup Semi sounds good to me! Not seen tickets on sale though.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    I am sure it was just satire.

    I would still be shocked if Labour hold Hartlepool.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,104
    edited April 2021
    On this poll the SNP would win 0 list seats and their majority would be entirely dependent on the constituencies.

    As the SNP are now under 50% on the constituency vote, Unionist tactical voting could be key in depriving them of that majority
  • 3%? Half tempted once I shake off this death by sinus to hop on the bike and chalk it on the road outside his hoose
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Hello @CorrectHorseBattery hope all is good with you and your family
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    slade said:

    One local by-election today - Con defence in Monmouthshire. Also a rumour that there are 13 Loony candidates in the Chessington South by- election in Kingston.

    There was always going to be a terrible price to pay for reducing the numbers of proposers.....
  • MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    So why isn’t this murder attracting the same opprobrium as that of Sarah Everard?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-56569863
    Genuine question as this seemed equally horrifying.

    Agree but (1) the victim is not a white middle class woman living in Zones 1-2 London and working in a media industry job and (2) the perpetrator is an illegal asylum seeker who should have been kicked out of the country but wasn't so both the authorities and the left are not too keen on having the story being publicised.
    Point 1 is the first half of the explanation, but the second is that Sarah Everard was abducted. Lorraine Cox appears to have been persuaded to go back to her killer's home. Both were cruel murders, but the former involved, from the point of view of the media and the wider public that consume it, a more sympathetic victim and far more sensational circumstances.

    If point 2 had anything to do with it then why would the majority of the press that is NOT particularly forgiving of failed asylum seekers being left at liberty to commit horrendous crimes not pick up the ball and run with this?

    Whilst we are fortunate not to live in an atypically brutal society, people are nonetheless murdered regularly, and killings therefore need to be exceptional to achieve notoriety. The depressing monotony of young men stabbed to death on the streets, and women bludgeoned to death by violent partners at home, goes mostly unnoticed because society is used to it. Like deaths from Winter flu or road traffic accidents, if it doesn't involve you personally, it's just background noise. One column at the bottom of page 14 of a newspaper. Statistics.
    I think the fact that Lorraine Cox went back might be part of the reason but only a small part. The bigger part I would argue is the victim is of a similar profile to many of the journalists that would be writing about her. Journalists tend to focus on what they recognise most. How many pictures did we have of North London residents clapping during the lockdowns?

    As for Point 2, simple question (and this one is for @stodge as well). Let's say this was a Kurdish woman killed by a white man. Do we think The Guardian would have similarly relegated the story (ps try finding it on their website)?
    It is right there.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/01/man-convicted-of-murdering-and-dismembering-woman-in-exeter-lorraine-cox
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,104
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    As expected Alba is a damp squib.
    I predicted as much.

    It is REALLY hard to get over 5% as a new party, especially when your leader is a known (but legally unblemished) sex pest.

    What is disappointing from a Unionist perspective is no obvious “bounce” for Anas Sarwar and little damage to the SNP. And the Greens appear completely unscathed.

    No, it's gravy for unionists. The Nationalist cause is schismatized, and seems bitterly divided, and Boris can dismiss the new Holyrood as a gamed system

    If Alba do this badly, Salmond has done terrible damage to indy. We shall see
    The way this poll in the header looks, the embarrassing and degrading mess over the last months has not dampened enthusiasm for an SNP majority. The SNP are through the worst too and are likely to get stronger.
    Schisms are bad. I know you want the SNP to win so Scotland goes indy to punish us for voting Brexit, but, schisms are bad. They generally hinder the cause

    It would be surprising, but not impossible, if this were an exception, but so far it looks like proving the rule

    I readily admit that if Alba gets 15 seats on the List (and the SNP gets zillions of constituency seats) then that will boost the indy cause. Boris will still refuse a vote, but there is then a chance that Scotland will surge into passive mass resistance and Mahatama Gandhi stylee bullshit.

    And then, after five years, the YES vote could be consistently over 60% and Britain is done for. Certainly possible
    It was only Attlee's Labour Party who granted Gandhi Indian independence, Churchill's Tory led government ignored him on the whole
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,662
    edited April 2021
    Foxy said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    FA Cup Semi sounds good to me! Not seen tickets on sale though.

    It's the Leicester semi that is the test event, however the tickets will be limited to 4,000 local people in Brent.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    HYUFD said:

    On this poll the SNP would win 0 list seats and their majority would be entirely dependent on the constituencies.

    As the SNP are now under 50% on the constituency vote, Unionist tactical voting could be key in depriving them of that majority

    I am not an SNP fan but if they get near 50% of the constituency vote they could get close to all of the 73 constituency seats. Opposition vote split between LAB, LD, CON, GRN etc.

    They 'only' need 65 for a majority.

    Agree that SNP will probably win 0 list seats.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    So why isn’t this murder attracting the same opprobrium as that of Sarah Everard?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-56569863
    Genuine question as this seemed equally horrifying.

    Agree but (1) the victim is not a white middle class woman living in Zones 1-2 London and working in a media industry job and (2) the perpetrator is an illegal asylum seeker who should have been kicked out of the country but wasn't so both the authorities and the left are not too keen on having the story being publicised.
    Point 1 is the first half of the explanation, but the second is that Sarah Everard was abducted. Lorraine Cox appears to have been persuaded to go back to her killer's home. Both were cruel murders, but the former involved, from the point of view of the media and the wider public that consume it, a more sympathetic victim and far more sensational circumstances.

    If point 2 had anything to do with it then why would the majority of the press that is NOT particularly forgiving of failed asylum seekers being left at liberty to commit horrendous crimes not pick up the ball and run with this?

    Whilst we are fortunate not to live in an atypically brutal society, people are nonetheless murdered regularly, and killings therefore need to be exceptional to achieve notoriety. The depressing monotony of young men stabbed to death on the streets, and women bludgeoned to death by violent partners at home, goes mostly unnoticed because society is used to it. Like deaths from Winter flu or road traffic accidents, if it doesn't involve you personally, it's just background noise. One column at the bottom of page 14 of a newspaper. Statistics.
    I think the fact that Lorraine Cox went back might be part of the reason but only a small part. The bigger part I would argue is the victim is of a similar profile to many of the journalists that would be writing about her. Journalists tend to focus on what they recognise most. How many pictures did we have of North London residents clapping during the lockdowns?

    As for Point 2, simple question (and this one is for @stodge as well). Let's say this was a Kurdish woman killed by a white man. Do we think The Guardian would have similarly relegated the story (ps try finding it on their website)?
    It is right there.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/01/man-convicted-of-murdering-and-dismembering-woman-in-exeter-lorraine-cox
    Not really on the front page was it?

    You had to go to the UK section, then you had to scroll down to near the bottom.

    When you read the story, also no mention of the fact that he was an illegal asylum seeker.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    As expected Alba is a damp squib.
    I predicted as much.

    It is REALLY hard to get over 5% as a new party, especially when your leader is a known (but legally unblemished) sex pest.

    What is disappointing from a Unionist perspective is no obvious “bounce” for Anas Sarwar and little damage to the SNP. And the Greens appear completely unscathed.

    No, it's gravy for unionists. The Nationalist cause is schismatized, and seems bitterly divided, and Boris can dismiss the new Holyrood as a gamed system

    If Alba do this badly, Salmond has done terrible damage to indy. We shall see
    The way this poll in the header looks, the embarrassing and degrading mess over the last months has not dampened enthusiasm for an SNP majority. The SNP are through the worst too and are likely to get stronger.
    Schisms are bad. I know you want the SNP to win so Scotland goes indy to punish us for voting Brexit, but, schisms are bad. They generally hinder the cause

    It would be surprising, but not impossible, if this were an exception, but so far it looks like proving the rule

    I readily admit that if Alba gets 15 seats on the List (and the SNP gets zillions of constituency seats) then that will boost the indy cause. Boris will still refuse a vote, but there is then a chance that Scotland will surge into passive mass resistance and Mahatama Gandhi stylee bullshit.

    And then, after five years, the YES vote could be consistently over 60% and Britain is done for. Certainly possible
    It was only Attlee's Labour Party who granted Gandhi Indian independence, Churchill's Tory led government ignored him on the whole
    Churchill’s Tory led government that locked him in prison for two years?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    As expected Alba is a damp squib.
    I predicted as much.

    It is REALLY hard to get over 5% as a new party, especially when your leader is a known (but legally unblemished) sex pest.

    What is disappointing from a Unionist perspective is no obvious “bounce” for Anas Sarwar and little damage to the SNP. And the Greens appear completely unscathed.

    No, it's gravy for unionists. The Nationalist cause is schismatized, and seems bitterly divided, and Boris can dismiss the new Holyrood as a gamed system

    If Alba do this badly, Salmond has done terrible damage to indy. We shall see
    The way this poll in the header looks, the embarrassing and degrading mess over the last months has not dampened enthusiasm for an SNP majority. The SNP are through the worst too and are likely to get stronger.
    Schisms are bad. I know you want the SNP to win so Scotland goes indy to punish us for voting Brexit, but, schisms are bad. They generally hinder the cause

    It would be surprising, but not impossible, if this were an exception, but so far it looks like proving the rule

    I readily admit that if Alba gets 15 seats on the List (and the SNP gets zillions of constituency seats) then that will boost the indy cause. Boris will still refuse a vote, but there is then a chance that Scotland will surge into passive mass resistance and Mahatama Gandhi stylee bullshit.

    And then, after five years, the YES vote could be consistently over 60% and Britain is done for. Certainly possible
    It was only Attlee's Labour Party who granted Gandhi Indian independence, Churchill's Tory led government ignored him on the whole
    Churchill’s Tory led government that locked him in prison for two years?
    He should count himself lucky he wasn't hanged, amiright @HYUFD ?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    How many people from Hartlepool are going to see that video clip though?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    So why isn’t this murder attracting the same opprobrium as that of Sarah Everard?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-56569863
    Genuine question as this seemed equally horrifying.

    Agree but (1) the victim is not a white middle class woman living in Zones 1-2 London and working in a media industry job and (2) the perpetrator is an illegal asylum seeker who should have been kicked out of the country but wasn't so both the authorities and the left are not too keen on having the story being publicised.
    Point 1 is the first half of the explanation, but the second is that Sarah Everard was abducted. Lorraine Cox appears to have been persuaded to go back to her killer's home. Both were cruel murders, but the former involved, from the point of view of the media and the wider public that consume it, a more sympathetic victim and far more sensational circumstances.

    If point 2 had anything to do with it then why would the majority of the press that is NOT particularly forgiving of failed asylum seekers being left at liberty to commit horrendous crimes not pick up the ball and run with this?

    Whilst we are fortunate not to live in an atypically brutal society, people are nonetheless murdered regularly, and killings therefore need to be exceptional to achieve notoriety. The depressing monotony of young men stabbed to death on the streets, and women bludgeoned to death by violent partners at home, goes mostly unnoticed because society is used to it. Like deaths from Winter flu or road traffic accidents, if it doesn't involve you personally, it's just background noise. One column at the bottom of page 14 of a newspaper. Statistics.
    I think the fact that Lorraine Cox went back might be part of the reason but only a small part. The bigger part I would argue is the victim is of a similar profile to many of the journalists that would be writing about her. Journalists tend to focus on what they recognise most. How many pictures did we have of North London residents clapping during the lockdowns?

    As for Point 2, simple question (and this one is for @stodge as well). Let's say this was a Kurdish woman killed by a white man. Do we think The Guardian would have similarly relegated the story (ps try finding it on their website)?
    It is right there.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/01/man-convicted-of-murdering-and-dismembering-woman-in-exeter-lorraine-cox
    Not really on the front page was it?

    You had to go to the UK section, then you had to scroll down to near the bottom.

    When you read the story, also no mention of the fact that he was an illegal asylum seeker.

    It is in the third to last paragraph:

    "Mangori insisted Cox had died from drink and drugs and said he did not call for help because a claim he made for asylum in the UK had been rejected and he was facing deportation."
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851
    Might the Sarah Everard case have got extra attention because she was in London?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Might the Sarah Everard case have got extra attention because she was in London?

    Well it is the capital city with over 1/6th of the population.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
  • MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    So why isn’t this murder attracting the same opprobrium as that of Sarah Everard?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-56569863
    Genuine question as this seemed equally horrifying.

    Agree but (1) the victim is not a white middle class woman living in Zones 1-2 London and working in a media industry job and (2) the perpetrator is an illegal asylum seeker who should have been kicked out of the country but wasn't so both the authorities and the left are not too keen on having the story being publicised.
    Point 1 is the first half of the explanation, but the second is that Sarah Everard was abducted. Lorraine Cox appears to have been persuaded to go back to her killer's home. Both were cruel murders, but the former involved, from the point of view of the media and the wider public that consume it, a more sympathetic victim and far more sensational circumstances.

    If point 2 had anything to do with it then why would the majority of the press that is NOT particularly forgiving of failed asylum seekers being left at liberty to commit horrendous crimes not pick up the ball and run with this?

    Whilst we are fortunate not to live in an atypically brutal society, people are nonetheless murdered regularly, and killings therefore need to be exceptional to achieve notoriety. The depressing monotony of young men stabbed to death on the streets, and women bludgeoned to death by violent partners at home, goes mostly unnoticed because society is used to it. Like deaths from Winter flu or road traffic accidents, if it doesn't involve you personally, it's just background noise. One column at the bottom of page 14 of a newspaper. Statistics.
    I think the fact that Lorraine Cox went back might be part of the reason but only a small part. The bigger part I would argue is the victim is of a similar profile to many of the journalists that would be writing about her. Journalists tend to focus on what they recognise most. How many pictures did we have of North London residents clapping during the lockdowns?

    As for Point 2, simple question (and this one is for @stodge as well). Let's say this was a Kurdish woman killed by a white man. Do we think The Guardian would have similarly relegated the story (ps try finding it on their website)?
    It is right there.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/01/man-convicted-of-murdering-and-dismembering-woman-in-exeter-lorraine-cox
    Not really on the front page was it?

    You had to go to the UK section, then you had to scroll down to near the bottom.

    When you read the story, also no mention of the fact that he was an illegal asylum seeker.

    Stop embarrassing yourself, from The Guardian article.

    Mangori insisted Cox had died from drink and drugs and said he did not call for help because a claim he made for asylum in the UK had been rejected and he was facing deportation.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,100
    edited April 2021
    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    I think you will find he has even if it goes to a vote
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,104
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    As expected Alba is a damp squib.
    I predicted as much.

    It is REALLY hard to get over 5% as a new party, especially when your leader is a known (but legally unblemished) sex pest.

    What is disappointing from a Unionist perspective is no obvious “bounce” for Anas Sarwar and little damage to the SNP. And the Greens appear completely unscathed.

    No, it's gravy for unionists. The Nationalist cause is schismatized, and seems bitterly divided, and Boris can dismiss the new Holyrood as a gamed system

    If Alba do this badly, Salmond has done terrible damage to indy. We shall see
    The way this poll in the header looks, the embarrassing and degrading mess over the last months has not dampened enthusiasm for an SNP majority. The SNP are through the worst too and are likely to get stronger.
    Schisms are bad. I know you want the SNP to win so Scotland goes indy to punish us for voting Brexit, but, schisms are bad. They generally hinder the cause

    It would be surprising, but not impossible, if this were an exception, but so far it looks like proving the rule

    I readily admit that if Alba gets 15 seats on the List (and the SNP gets zillions of constituency seats) then that will boost the indy cause. Boris will still refuse a vote, but there is then a chance that Scotland will surge into passive mass resistance and Mahatama Gandhi stylee bullshit.

    And then, after five years, the YES vote could be consistently over 60% and Britain is done for. Certainly possible
    It was only Attlee's Labour Party who granted Gandhi Indian independence, Churchill's Tory led government ignored him on the whole
    Churchill’s Tory led government that locked him in prison for two years?
    The point being they certainly did not concede him anything, it was only Attlee's Labour Party winning the 1945 election that led to Indian independence in 1947
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    That sounds so exhausting. I don't think I'll bother even trying to attend any of these events if it's going to be a complete faff.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Now, was the A&E in Hartlepool closed down because of unnecessary penny-pinching, or because it was considered a good idea from a clinical point of view to concentrate acute services in one, larger centre? I've no idea, BTW.

    In the latter case, the argument that the hospital in Stockton is one of the local hospitals for Hartlepool and that the investment benefits the town is entirely valid, and not compromised by the retort that the local A&E should not have been closed in the first place, because it resulted in local services deteriorating.

    That said, from a purely party political angle, it's a good line of attack for Labour to deploy. People do rather tend to believe that their little local hospital should be all singing and all dancing, regardless of whether or not a system of larger hub hospitals orbited by smaller satellite ones might provide a better overall standard of care, or not. The NHS-as-religion thing hardly helps: the public takes great pride in the local temple and wishes to see it beautified.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,431

    Might the Sarah Everard case have got extra attention because she was in London?

    I think what annoys me is the lack of the outrage that we saw for the everard case. It’s as if her death is less heinous in some way. Not just the press and media, but all the howling Twitter items and commentators don’t seem to care about this case. Like the circus has moved on. It’s very sad.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    Yeah but, Johnson should die on the hill of Covid passport righteousness not throw in the towel because Starmer is being a dick.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    I am with Sir Keir on this one - I haven’t made up my mind. He has probably given it more thought than me though. But speaking to my friends and family, many of them who were pretty anti lockdown, I think the stage has been reached where they’d do anything to be allowed out, so any libertarian idealism they had, if they had any at all, has gone by the wayside and vaccine passports wouldn’t be a problem.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    I think you will find he has even if it goes to a vote
    Nope. I expect a Tory rebellion of around 70 on this.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,996
    edited April 2021
    HYUFD said:

    On this poll the SNP would win 0 list seats and their majority would be entirely dependent on the constituencies.a

    As the SNP are now under 50% on the constituency vote, Unionist tactical voting could be key in depriving them of that majority

    Once the ‘you Scotch barstewards should thank your lucky stars that BJ isn’t Xi and the Tories aren’t the CCP’ message filters through, Unionist majority nailed on.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,104

    HYUFD said:

    On this poll the SNP would win 0 list seats and their majority would be entirely dependent on the constituencies.

    As the SNP are now under 50% on the constituency vote, Unionist tactical voting could be key in depriving them of that majority

    I am not an SNP fan but if they get near 50% of the constituency vote they could get close to all of the 73 constituency seats. Opposition vote split between LAB, LD, CON, GRN etc.

    They 'only' need 65 for a majority.

    Agree that SNP will probably win 0 list seats.
    Not if there is Unionist tactical voting.

    In almost every Unionist seat the combined Unionist vote was well over 50% in 2016, the SNP only won 59 constituencies in 2016 so if the Unionist parties hold all their constitiuencies and the SNP fall from 4 list seats in 2016 to 0 then there would definitely be no SNP majority and the SNP would lose MSPs overall
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851

    Might the Sarah Everard case have got extra attention because she was in London?

    Well it is the capital city with over 1/6th of the population.
    I'm slightly troubled by the idea that someone being murdered in London matters more than if it happens elsewhere.

    And if you are talking UK I don't think London is one in seven let alone one in six.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    Yeah but, Johnson should die on the hill of Covid passport righteousness not throw in the towel because Starmer is being a dick.
    He isn't. He is right.

    A few fearties who don't understand science shouldn't be dictating public policy for the rest of us.

    If they're that scared, they can stay at home and watch it on telly.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    “It is actually usually a large combination of factors, some of which are under our control, many of which are not. And more of it is chance than I think people are prepared to accept,” - Chris Whitty on the spread of Covid.

    Pretty much what I thought really. He could be say the same about almost any aspect of life

    It's an absolutely spot on observation.
    Essentially true for all complex adaptive systems, i.e. real life
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    What is embarassing about it? Johnson is inventing a narrative that, if called out on it, he can still bang on about the "truth" which is the spending part. Most people never look too closely and will remember the spending if not the hospital and and those broadly sympathetic to the Tories harder-right approach will latch on to this excuse and trumpet the spending. The actual hospital will be forgotten.

    Remember, the narrative these days is not "My country, right or wrong" it is "My political side, right or wrong" and that is all that matters.

    To hell with actual facts....
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Now, was the A&E in Hartlepool closed down because of unnecessary penny-pinching, or because it was considered a good idea from a clinical point of view to concentrate acute services in one, larger centre? I've no idea, BTW.

    In the latter case, the argument that the hospital in Stockton is one of the local hospitals for Hartlepool and that the investment benefits the town is entirely valid, and not compromised by the retort that the local A&E should not have been closed in the first place, because it resulted in local services deteriorating.

    That said, from a purely party political angle, it's a good line of attack for Labour to deploy. People do rather tend to believe that their little local hospital should be all singing and all dancing, regardless of whether or not a system of larger hub hospitals orbited by smaller satellite ones might provide a better overall standard of care, or not. The NHS-as-religion thing hardly helps: the public takes great pride in the local temple and wishes to see it beautified.
    The NHS-as-religion thing hardly helps: the public takes great pride in the local temple and wishes to see it beautified.

    A fine turn of phrase!
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    I think you will find he has even if it goes to a vote
    Nope. I expect a Tory rebellion of around 70 on this.
    This is a pilot to open the economy and no, I do not believe this will not get through, even if it is voted on
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    That sounds so exhausting. I don't think I'll bother even trying to attend any of these events if it's going to be a complete faff.
    Very odd as I could swear that Whitty and SAGE told us all months ago that these big outdoor stadia type events are not a spreader of the virus.

  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    Now, was the A&E in Hartlepool closed down because of unnecessary penny-pinching, or because it was considered a good idea from a clinical point of view to concentrate acute services in one, larger centre? I've no idea, BTW.

    In the latter case, the argument that the hospital in Stockton is one of the local hospitals for Hartlepool and that the investment benefits the town is entirely valid, and not compromised by the retort that the local A&E should not have been closed in the first place, because it resulted in local services deteriorating.

    That said, from a purely party political angle, it's a good line of attack for Labour to deploy. People do rather tend to believe that their little local hospital should be all singing and all dancing, regardless of whether or not a system of larger hub hospitals orbited by smaller satellite ones might provide a better overall standard of care, or not. The NHS-as-religion thing hardly helps: the public takes great pride in the local temple and wishes to see it beautified.
    The NHS-as-religion thing hardly helps: the public takes great pride in the local temple and wishes to see it beautified.

    A fine turn of phrase!
    I'm sure we had a poster here who explained how this exact strategy failed miserably in Copeland.

    NHS as a religion seems to resonate more in the South than the North, anecdotally.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,059
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    So why isn’t this murder attracting the same opprobrium as that of Sarah Everard?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-56569863
    Genuine question as this seemed equally horrifying.

    Not a young woman in London so the media finds it less easy to put themselves in her shoes
  • Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    That sounds so exhausting. I don't think I'll bother even trying to attend any of these events if it's going to be a complete faff.
    Very odd as I could swear that Whitty and SAGE told us all months ago that these big outdoor stadia type events are not a spreader of the virus.

    They aren't, however just imagine going to football stadia like Wembley and The Emirates involves tens of thousands of people using cramped public transport where the infections are likely to happen.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710

    Now, was the A&E in Hartlepool closed down because of unnecessary penny-pinching, or because it was considered a good idea from a clinical point of view to concentrate acute services in one, larger centre? I've no idea, BTW.

    In the latter case, the argument that the hospital in Stockton is one of the local hospitals for Hartlepool and that the investment benefits the town is entirely valid, and not compromised by the retort that the local A&E should not have been closed in the first place, because it resulted in local services deteriorating.

    That said, from a purely party political angle, it's a good line of attack for Labour to deploy. People do rather tend to believe that their little local hospital should be all singing and all dancing, regardless of whether or not a system of larger hub hospitals orbited by smaller satellite ones might provide a better overall standard of care, or not. The NHS-as-religion thing hardly helps: the public takes great pride in the local temple and wishes to see it beautified.
    I don't know the medical geography of the area, but small A and E units, like small maternity units are intrinsically unsafe because of staffing issues.

    A population of 500 000 is pretty much the minimum for a viable hospital, and well over that for major trauma, or acute stroke or cardiac services.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    I think you will find he has even if it goes to a vote
    Nope. I expect a Tory rebellion of around 70 on this.
    This is a pilot to open the economy and no, I do not believe this will not get through, even if it is voted on
    Herd immunity solves the problem, not kowtowing to fearties (who almost certainly won't be there anyway, because frit).
  • CatMan said:
    The asking if the batsman was playing a shot before reviewing is a good move.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    A PB travel forum request:

    I'm looking to book a few nights in a smart hotel in the central London in September to belatedly celebrate our ruby wedding anniversary. I'm thinking £400-£500 per night - a cut above our usual Novotel.

    Anybody got any recommendations?

    Thanks!

    Rosewood Holborn

    https://m.rosewoodhotels.com/en/london
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Foxy said:

    Now, was the A&E in Hartlepool closed down because of unnecessary penny-pinching, or because it was considered a good idea from a clinical point of view to concentrate acute services in one, larger centre? I've no idea, BTW.

    In the latter case, the argument that the hospital in Stockton is one of the local hospitals for Hartlepool and that the investment benefits the town is entirely valid, and not compromised by the retort that the local A&E should not have been closed in the first place, because it resulted in local services deteriorating.

    That said, from a purely party political angle, it's a good line of attack for Labour to deploy. People do rather tend to believe that their little local hospital should be all singing and all dancing, regardless of whether or not a system of larger hub hospitals orbited by smaller satellite ones might provide a better overall standard of care, or not. The NHS-as-religion thing hardly helps: the public takes great pride in the local temple and wishes to see it beautified.
    I don't know the medical geography of the area, but small A and E units, like small maternity units are intrinsically unsafe because of staffing issues.

    A population of 500 000 is pretty much the minimum for a viable hospital, and well over that for major trauma, or acute stroke or cardiac services.
    We have at least 3 major hospitals with big A&E departments here on Tyneside. 2 of them within 5 miles of each other. So I can see why places like Hartlepool might get miffed.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    edited April 2021

    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    I think you will find he has even if it goes to a vote
    Depends on size of Tory revolt. No doubt the whip thumbscrews will be applied and they will possibly scrape home.

    But incredible. Just incredible to think that Johnson, the libertarian, churchill-worshipping, endlessly riffing-off-good-roast-beef -of-olde-england bloke from the pub, should be the PM who tries to take us down this totally unbritish dystopian road.

    This app will never be turned off again. Its uses will be expanded. Its scope extended. Its safeguards bent.

  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    I think you will find he has even if it goes to a vote
    Nope. I expect a Tory rebellion of around 70 on this.
    This is a pilot to open the economy and no, I do not believe this will not get through, even if it is voted on
    Herd immunity solves the problem, not kowtowing to fearties (who almost certainly won't be there anyway, because frit).
    We are some way off herd immunity and the public are highly risk averse

    This policy will be very popular as people see it as the start of a way back to more normal times
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710

    Might the Sarah Everard case have got extra attention because she was in London?

    I think what annoys me is the lack of the outrage that we saw for the everard case. It’s as if her death is less heinous in some way. Not just the press and media, but all the howling Twitter items and commentators don’t seem to care about this case. Like the circus has moved on. It’s very sad.
    2 women get murdered each week or so. Jess Phillips reads their names in Parliament each year on Internationl Women's Day.

    Not many make more than a paragraph in the local paper.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/fe234f59-75b9-44f7-af8a-f05e588957b7#

    Greensill Capital’s administrator has failed to verify invoices underpinning loans to Sanjeev Gupta, after companies listed on the documents denied that they had ever done business with the metals magnate.

    If this is true, then things are likely to end very poorly for GFG, Liberty, and for various politicians who guaranteed GFG loans.


    Bloody hell, this is Wirecard level of awful. The auditor is going to be in big trouble too.
    According to the FT article, there are invoices to firms that do not even have trading relationships with GFG.

    That's a major, major issue. Because auditors should check pretty much all major trading relationships actually exist, and then should spot check invoices.

    (I don't personally think this is quite as bad as Wirecard, because GFG/Greensill didn't get the UK regulator to threaten journalists who asked awkward questions.)
    You might want to clarify that the *UK* regulator did no such thing in the Wirecard situation
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    I think you will find he has even if it goes to a vote
    Nope. I expect a Tory rebellion of around 70 on this.
    This is a pilot to open the economy and no, I do not believe this will not get through, even if it is voted on
    Herd immunity solves the problem, not kowtowing to fearties (who almost certainly won't be there anyway, because frit).
    We are some way off herd immunity and the public are highly risk averse

    This policy will be very popular as people see it as the start of a way back to more normal times
    This is ridiculous @Big_G_NorthWales . You still haven't explained what the benefit of these vaccine passports are. All you say is "they are coming". I know they are coming but I asked what the benefit of them is.

    The vaccine is the way back to normal times. Not this distraction.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    I think you will find he has even if it goes to a vote
    Depends on size of Tory revolt. No doubt the whip thumbscrews will be applied and they will possibly scrape home.

    But incredible. Just incredible to think that Johnson, the libertarian, churchill-worshipping, endlessly riffing-off-good-roast-beef -of-olde-england bloke from the pub, should be the PM who tries to take us down this totally unbritish dystopian road.

    This app will never be turned off again. Its uses will be expanded. Its scope extended. Its safeguards bent.

    Just as an example of how awful the app was last time.

    I was one update behind the times. And I couldn't download it.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598

    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    I think you will find he has even if it goes to a vote
    Depends on size of Tory revolt. No doubt the whip thumbscrews will be applied and they will possibly scrape home.

    But incredible. Just incredible to think that Johnson, the libertarian, churchill-worshipping, endlessly riffing-off-good-roast-beef -of-olde-england bloke from the pub, should be the PM who tries to take us down this totally unbritish dystopian road.

    This app will never be turned off again. Its uses will be expanded. Its scope extended. Its safeguards bent.

    And a Labour Govt. will never repeal them.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,431

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    I think you will find he has even if it goes to a vote
    Nope. I expect a Tory rebellion of around 70 on this.
    This is a pilot to open the economy and no, I do not believe this will not get through, even if it is voted on
    Herd immunity solves the problem, not kowtowing to fearties (who almost certainly won't be there anyway, because frit).
    We are some way off herd immunity and the public are highly risk averse

    This policy will be very popular as people see it as the start of a way back to more normal times
    We are not far behind the opened up Israel, and I’d suggest that some of the public are very risk averse. Check out the scenes from the parks this week for some who are less risk averse...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    I think you will find he has even if it goes to a vote
    Nope. I expect a Tory rebellion of around 70 on this.
    This is a pilot to open the economy and no, I do not believe this will not get through, even if it is voted on
    Herd immunity solves the problem, not kowtowing to fearties (who almost certainly won't be there anyway, because frit).
    We are some way off herd immunity and the public are highly risk averse

    This policy will be very popular as people see it as the start of a way back to more normal times
    It will only be 'popular' amongst people who dont go to pubs or football games.

    Single handedly reinvigorating the LDs and the UKIP tendency whilst also pissing off enough Tory MPs to lose him the leadership? Boris needs Dom back....
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    I think you will find he has even if it goes to a vote
    Nope. I expect a Tory rebellion of around 70 on this.
    This is a pilot to open the economy and no, I do not believe this will not get through, even if it is voted on
    Herd immunity solves the problem, not kowtowing to fearties (who almost certainly won't be there anyway, because frit).
    We are some way off herd immunity and the public are highly risk averse

    This policy will be very popular as people see it as the start of a way back to more normal times
    Looks like we are not going to get the 'full removal of restrictions' from 21 June after all...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710

    Foxy said:

    Now, was the A&E in Hartlepool closed down because of unnecessary penny-pinching, or because it was considered a good idea from a clinical point of view to concentrate acute services in one, larger centre? I've no idea, BTW.

    In the latter case, the argument that the hospital in Stockton is one of the local hospitals for Hartlepool and that the investment benefits the town is entirely valid, and not compromised by the retort that the local A&E should not have been closed in the first place, because it resulted in local services deteriorating.

    That said, from a purely party political angle, it's a good line of attack for Labour to deploy. People do rather tend to believe that their little local hospital should be all singing and all dancing, regardless of whether or not a system of larger hub hospitals orbited by smaller satellite ones might provide a better overall standard of care, or not. The NHS-as-religion thing hardly helps: the public takes great pride in the local temple and wishes to see it beautified.
    I don't know the medical geography of the area, but small A and E units, like small maternity units are intrinsically unsafe because of staffing issues.

    A population of 500 000 is pretty much the minimum for a viable hospital, and well over that for major trauma, or acute stroke or cardiac services.
    We have at least 3 major hospitals with big A&E departments here on Tyneside. 2 of them within 5 miles of each other. So I can see why places like Hartlepool might get miffed.
    Yeah, but what is the population of the catchement area?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Mortimer said:

    Covid passport trials to begin at UK events this month

    FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part in pilot schemes

    Covid passports are set to be trialled at events in Britain within weeks, The Telegraph can reveal, as the Government pushes ahead with the idea despite a growing rebellion by MPs.

    New details of around a dozen pilot schemes for safely opening large events will be announced in the coming days, with plans to trial Covid certification checks. The FA Cup final, an FA Cup semi-final, the League Cup final and the World Snooker Championship are taking part, with the Brit Awards also in discussions.

    People going to the events will be asked to take a Covid test to gain entry and another after attendance so that any spreading of the virus can be monitored. Government scientists are closely involved in designing the pilots and will watch everything from crowd flows to ventilation systems to learn lessons about running large events.

    Multiple Government sources involved in the planning told The Telegraph it is hoped that Covid passports – producing a certificate showing your virus status – will feature in some pilots.

    The events will run throughout April and May, and ministers want enough conclusions to be drawn for the reopening of large events to be able to happen from as early as mid-June.

    While events in April will require a negative Covid test to gain entry, it is hoped some of the pilots in May can trial an updated NHS app which shows whether someone has had a jab, negative test or antibodies – what has been described a Covid passport.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/01/exclusivecovid-passport-trials-begin-uk-events-month/

    I think on this issue Johnson is right and both Starmer and all the posters here on PB are wrong. What's the problem with carrying ID? I had to pull out my driving licence to claim a pre ordered packet of hinges from Screwfix today.

    I also have a Chinese mobile phone so President Xi, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos all know where I am, so I don't suppose a vaccine passport will make much difference.
    First rule of politics.

    Learn how to count.

    Boris doesn't have the votes for this.
    I think you will find he has even if it goes to a vote
    Depends on size of Tory revolt. No doubt the whip thumbscrews will be applied and they will possibly scrape home.

    But incredible. Just incredible to think that Johnson, the libertarian, churchill-worshipping, endlessly riffing-off-good-roast-beef -of-olde-england bloke from the pub, should be the PM who tries to take us down this totally unbritish dystopian road.

    This app will never be turned off again. Its uses will be expanded. Its scope extended. Its safeguards bent.

    The PB Tories will cheer on their side's creeping fascism because it targets those they do not like and they believe it will never be applied to them. The sharp lesson will come when the Tories finally lose office and all these methods of control are left for their political opponents to utilise. When that happens the PB Tories will squeal like pigs about lack of accountability and out-of-control politicians using this legislation.
This discussion has been closed.