Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

After the longest wait for a by-election since GE1945 it looks like there’ll be two on the same say

2

Comments

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    The local parties in Gibraltar apparently didn't stand in European Parliament elections (presumably as little point given it was part of the SW England region), and instead endorsed the UK parties accordingly - 2014 saw a 49% swing to the LDs, and over the course of the period they could vote in them the Conservative vote dropped from 69.52% in 2004 to 2.7% in 2019, below even that of the Brexit Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_Gibraltar
    We really should incorporate- if they want - all the remaining fragments of the empire. Falklands, Caribbean, Indian Ocean, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Pitcairn, Tristan. South Georgia.

    We could even put in a late bid for PNG, Tuvalu, the Solomons
    Well, Tuvalu, I believe the smallest independent state by population (I don't count Vatican City), did reject abolition of the monarchy only 13 years ago, but it'd be an odd thing to go Indy and then change your mind.
    Papua New Guinea would be the big one. 9 million people. Vast incredible beautiful challenging island. Many stunning offshore islands.

    Lots of social problems, but also a land of enormous potential.

    A good partner and project for post brexit Britain.

    It was expected, when they went Indy, they would become a republic. They didn’t. They prefer the crown and links to Britain. Let us make them the fifth constituent nation in the UK
    More the merrier I say.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,586
    It would be interesting to know the working-class / middle-class split of the protestors, and how many of them have been to private school.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,532
    Foxy said:



    Some years ago I was in Noumea, which is like a French Mediterranean town with a giant Nickel smelter, processing local ore. New Caledonia is quite mountainous, so the airport to fly out was an hours drive. I was too skint for a taxi so took the local bus to catch our flight. Mrs Foxy and I were the only white people on the bus, the rest being Melanesian nickel workers who had started the weekend early by drinking their wages.

    It was a very hostile atmosphere, with brooding stares at us. Eventually one of our fellow passengers spoke to us. We apologised for not understanding him as we spoke little French. Instantly the atmosphere changed. Once the passengers realised we were not French, it was fine, and we were plied with fruit and cane sprit. They waved us off happily at the airport

    The airport was closed and no buses back, but that is another story!

    So go on!!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,617
    IanB2 said:

    As was also found in Israel, some combination of the risk at the vaccination centres and changes in behaviour too soon after vaccination is leading to post-vaccine infections:

    One in 25 people hospitalised with Covid-19 since December have had at least one dose of vaccine, with the majority infected shortly before or soon after vaccination – before immunity would have had time to develop

    Is that surprising though considering the people most likely to be hospitalized with covid are those who have been getting the vaccine ?

    And there was plenty of covid about in December and January.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    The local parties in Gibraltar apparently didn't stand in European Parliament elections (presumably as little point given it was part of the SW England region), and instead endorsed the UK parties accordingly - 2014 saw a 49% swing to the LDs, and over the course of the period they could vote in them the Conservative vote dropped from 69.52% in 2004 to 2.7% in 2019, below even that of the Brexit Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_Gibraltar
    We really should incorporate- if they want - all the remaining fragments of the empire. Falklands, Caribbean, Indian Ocean, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Pitcairn, Tristan. South Georgia.

    We could even put in a late bid for PNG, Tuvalu, the Solomons
    Well, Tuvalu, I believe the smallest independent state by population (I don't count Vatican City), did reject abolition of the monarchy only 13 years ago, but it'd be an odd thing to go Indy and then change your mind.
    Papua New Guinea would be the big one. 9 million people. Vast incredible beautiful challenging island. Many stunning offshore islands.

    Lots of social problems, but also a land of enormous potential.

    A good partner and project for post brexit Britain.

    It was expected, when they went Indy, they would become a republic. They didn’t. They prefer the crown and links to Britain. Let us make them the fifth constituent nation in the UK
    Only country with Rugby League as the national sport.
    Several of my mates went on an under 18's tour there in the mid-eighties. National radio interviews and crowds at the airport.
    Sold out 18k crowd for a kids game.
    Ended in a riot. Locked in the dressing room with riot police.
    Fascinating place.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    The local parties in Gibraltar apparently didn't stand in European Parliament elections (presumably as little point given it was part of the SW England region), and instead endorsed the UK parties accordingly - 2014 saw a 49% swing to the LDs, and over the course of the period they could vote in them the Conservative vote dropped from 69.52% in 2004 to 2.7% in 2019, below even that of the Brexit Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_Gibraltar
    We really should incorporate- if they want - all the remaining fragments of the empire. Falklands, Caribbean, Indian Ocean, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Pitcairn, Tristan. South Georgia.

    We could even put in a late bid for PNG, Tuvalu, the Solomons
    Don't forget Aquitaine. Perhaps give Calais a miss, though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    The local parties in Gibraltar apparently didn't stand in European Parliament elections (presumably as little point given it was part of the SW England region), and instead endorsed the UK parties accordingly - 2014 saw a 49% swing to the LDs, and over the course of the period they could vote in them the Conservative vote dropped from 69.52% in 2004 to 2.7% in 2019, below even that of the Brexit Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_Gibraltar
    We really should incorporate- if they want - all the remaining fragments of the empire. Falklands, Caribbean, Indian Ocean, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Pitcairn, Tristan. South Georgia.

    We could even put in a late bid for PNG, Tuvalu, the Solomons
    Well, Tuvalu, I believe the smallest independent state by population (I don't count Vatican City), did reject abolition of the monarchy only 13 years ago, but it'd be an odd thing to go Indy and then change your mind.
    Papua New Guinea would be the big one. 9 million people. Vast incredible beautiful challenging island. Many stunning offshore islands.

    Lots of social problems, but also a land of enormous potential.

    A good partner and project for post brexit Britain.

    It was expected, when they went Indy, they would become a republic. They didn’t. They prefer the crown and links to Britain. Let us make them the fifth constituent nation in the UK
    More the merrier I say.
    It would be brilliant. Such a shock. Papua New Guinea is fantastically interesting. One of the last frontiers.

    Do it Boris. The United Kingdom of England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Stet bilong Papua Niugini

    I also note that they have a bad rate of wife beating and they love rugby league so it would be little different to adding another Yorkshire


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_New_Guinea
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,617
    Andy_JS said:

    It would be interesting to know the working-class / middle-class split of the protestors, and how many of them have been to private school.
    The over educated but under employable ?

    Upper middle class upbringing turning into downward socioeconomic regression.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,532
    edited March 2021
    Cookie said:



    I once took it on myself to find out the history of Denmark. I bought a book off the internet, which turned out to have been written in the 1850s in Danish and translated into English. The book concluded that after a long and difficult history, everything in Denmark is now brilliant and God Save the King.
    I'm all for an uplifting ending. I wish some of today's academic tomes could take a more furiously optimistic approach.
    Anyway, the point of all this is that up until 1855 at least, Danish history appeared to consist of expending vast amounts of time and resources over several generations trying to integrate Schleswig-Holstein into the Danish state, only to lose it again almost immediately, over and over again.

    Yes, that's why not doing it again in 1918 was (belatedly) rather inspiring. The full (very long) story is here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Schleswig-Holstein#Danes_under_German_rule

    tl:dr - it's as you said, and then as I said. Apparently it was a close thing, though - the Danish Government nearly fell over the issue is 1918, and likewise in 1945. But once the decision was finally taken, it stuck, more or less happily ever after. Perhaps we should try it in Northern Ireland...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    kle4 said:



    My father was invalided out of the navy as a young man, after contracting an infection in Malta in the mid 1950s.

    Many a young sailor has contracted an "infection" on The Gut in Malta. It was generally held to be the last opportunity to get the clap on a Med cruise and still be cured by the time one returned to home, hearth and the wife in Blighty. Gib was cutting it too close for the antibiotics to work in time.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,586
    I used to think I'd visited quite a lot of countries compared to most people, about 30, but on PB that doesn't seem like a lot.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    Discovering the Chilterns was a big thing for me. I realised i could get an Uber to Marylebone Station. 5 minutes drive across regents park. Jump on the first train to wendover or tring. 40-50 minutes. From central london you are hurled into deep gorgeous hilly verdant countryside, in less than an hour. You can walk for hours and barely see anyone. On a hot summer’s day, with a good picnic, and a bottle of cold meursault, it is maybe the best fun on earth that doesn’t involve nudity

    Ditto the surrey hills from Waterloo
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,586
    dixiedean said:

    Anyways. Vaccine side effect update (since every other bugger has had a go). Got the shot at 2:30 yesterday.
    Chills, minor headache, stiffness. Had a Lemsip at 6 in the evening. Much better since.
    Major symptom an overwhelming weariness.
    That and a persistent, niggling elation that I may have survived this.

    AZ?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    edited March 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anyways. Vaccine side effect update (since every other bugger has had a go). Got the shot at 2:30 yesterday.
    Chills, minor headache, stiffness. Had a Lemsip at 6 in the evening. Much better since.
    Major symptom an overwhelming weariness.
    That and a persistent, niggling elation that I may have survived this.

    AZ?
    Yes.
    Final question. "We have the AZ today. Are you ready to be vaccinated?"
    Hell yeah. Bring it on.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    Discovering the Chilterns was a big thing for me. I realised i could get an Uber to Marylebone Station. 5 minutes drive across regents park. Jump on the first train to wendover or tring. 40-50 minutes. From central london you are hurled into deep gorgeous hilly verdant countryside, in less than an hour. You can walk for hours and barely see anyone. On a hot summer’s day, with a good picnic, and a bottle of cold meursault, it is maybe the best fun on earth that doesn’t involve nudity

    Ditto the surrey hills from Waterloo
    Absolutely. That first discovery of the magic of Marylebone is an epiphany for many. The Chilterns are London’s forgotten hills.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anyways. Vaccine side effect update (since every other bugger has had a go). Got the shot at 2:30 yesterday.
    Chills, minor headache, stiffness. Had a Lemsip at 6 in the evening. Much better since.
    Major symptom an overwhelming weariness.
    That and a persistent, niggling elation that I may have survived this.

    AZ?
    Yes.
    Given AZN is all pseudo-science, you must just be suffering from the placebo effect.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,532
    Andy_JS said:

    I used to think I'd visited quite a lot of countries compared to most people, about 30, but on PB that doesn't seem like a lot.

    30 sounds pretty good to me.

    I had an amazing job a few years after losing my seat - working for Cruelty Free International (reduction of animal testing) a large chunk of it was visiting any country where Ministers or MPs were showing signs of interest. I went to about 25 in 3 years - spoke in the Columbian Senate chamber, got wined and dined in the palatial Korean national assembly, got drunk with the Vietnamese head of clinical research, organised a two-day seminar in Beijing where participants almost came to blows, rolled on the ground with wolves in a Hungarian sanctuary.

    Did it help? Yes, a bit - several countries moved towards ending animal testing for cosmetics, seemingly as a result. The wolves part was just for fun though...
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,671

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    There's not really any wide open space though. It is all heavily populated.

    For me, though, the most depressing place in the country is Hull. I can't think of any redeeming features.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    The local parties in Gibraltar apparently didn't stand in European Parliament elections (presumably as little point given it was part of the SW England region), and instead endorsed the UK parties accordingly - 2014 saw a 49% swing to the LDs, and over the course of the period they could vote in them the Conservative vote dropped from 69.52% in 2004 to 2.7% in 2019, below even that of the Brexit Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_Gibraltar
    We really should incorporate- if they want - all the remaining fragments of the empire. Falklands, Caribbean, Indian Ocean, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Pitcairn, Tristan. South Georgia.

    We could even put in a late bid for PNG, Tuvalu, the Solomons
    Well, Tuvalu, I believe the smallest independent state by population (I don't count Vatican City), did reject abolition of the monarchy only 13 years ago, but it'd be an odd thing to go Indy and then change your mind.
    Papua New Guinea would be the big one. 9 million people. Vast incredible beautiful challenging island. Many stunning offshore islands.

    Lots of social problems, but also a land of enormous potential.

    A good partner and project for post brexit Britain.

    It was expected, when they went Indy, they would become a republic. They didn’t. They prefer the crown and links to Britain. Let us make them the fifth constituent nation in the UK
    Lizzie is still Queen of PNG.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anyways. Vaccine side effect update (since every other bugger has had a go). Got the shot at 2:30 yesterday.
    Chills, minor headache, stiffness. Had a Lemsip at 6 in the evening. Much better since.
    Major symptom an overwhelming weariness.
    That and a persistent, niggling elation that I may have survived this.

    AZ?
    Yes.
    Given AZN is all pseudo-science, you must just be suffering from the placebo effect.
    Bill Gates came to me in a dream, hugged me, and whispered that all would be well.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anyways. Vaccine side effect update (since every other bugger has had a go). Got the shot at 2:30 yesterday.
    Chills, minor headache, stiffness. Had a Lemsip at 6 in the evening. Much better since.
    Major symptom an overwhelming weariness.
    That and a persistent, niggling elation that I may have survived this.

    AZ?
    Yes.
    Given AZN is all pseudo-science, you must just be suffering from the placebo effect.
    Bill Gates came to me in a dream, hugged me, and whispered that all would be well.
    At least he didn't try and sell you a Zune.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    There's not really any wide open space though. It is all heavily populated.

    For me, though, the most depressing place in the country is Hull. I can't think of any redeeming features.
    What a load of rubbish.

    If you drive about 5 miles outside of eg Woking, you're in the countryside.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    There's not really any wide open space though. It is all heavily populated.

    For me, though, the most depressing place in the country is Hull. I can't think of any redeeming features.
    We seem to have a Rugby League theme.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870
    edited March 2021
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    The local parties in Gibraltar apparently didn't stand in European Parliament elections (presumably as little point given it was part of the SW England region), and instead endorsed the UK parties accordingly - 2014 saw a 49% swing to the LDs, and over the course of the period they could vote in them the Conservative vote dropped from 69.52% in 2004 to 2.7% in 2019, below even that of the Brexit Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_Gibraltar
    We really should incorporate- if they want - all the remaining fragments of the empire. Falklands, Caribbean, Indian Ocean, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Pitcairn, Tristan. South Georgia.

    We could even put in a late bid for PNG, Tuvalu, the Solomons
    Well, Tuvalu, I believe the smallest independent state by population (I don't count Vatican City), did reject abolition of the monarchy only 13 years ago, but it'd be an odd thing to go Indy and then change your mind.
    Nauru has a smaller population!

    EDIT - seems like Tuvalu is smaller!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    There's not really any wide open space though. It is all heavily populated.

    .
    Absolute garbage. Take a geography course then buy several OS maps.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    Discovering the Chilterns was a big thing for me. I realised i could get an Uber to Marylebone Station. 5 minutes drive across regents park. Jump on the first train to wendover or tring. 40-50 minutes. From central london you are hurled into deep gorgeous hilly verdant countryside, in less than an hour. You can walk for hours and barely see anyone. On a hot summer’s day, with a good picnic, and a bottle of cold meursault, it is maybe the best fun on earth that doesn’t involve nudity

    Ditto the surrey hills from Waterloo
    You need to go to Euston for the train to Tring!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,617

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    There's not really any wide open space though. It is all heavily populated.

    For me, though, the most depressing place in the country is Hull. I can't think of any redeeming features.
    The centre of Hull is quite nice and historic as I remember.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,671
    edited March 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    There's not really any wide open space though. It is all heavily populated.

    .
    Absolute garbage. Take a geography course then buy several OS maps.
    I have almost a complete collection of OS maps, thanks.

    I've been for walks around Guildford and in the Surrey Hills. Meh. You can't exactly wander anywhere (thus meeting my definition of wide open space). You are definitely going to meet lots of people.

    The heathlands are OK but 90% of them are expensive golf courses (Some of which I've played, I admit. Past life.).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,206
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    The local parties in Gibraltar apparently didn't stand in European Parliament elections (presumably as little point given it was part of the SW England region), and instead endorsed the UK parties accordingly - 2014 saw a 49% swing to the LDs, and over the course of the period they could vote in them the Conservative vote dropped from 69.52% in 2004 to 2.7% in 2019, below even that of the Brexit Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_Gibraltar
    We really should incorporate- if they want - all the remaining fragments of the empire. Falklands, Caribbean, Indian Ocean, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Pitcairn, Tristan. South Georgia.

    We could even put in a late bid for PNG, Tuvalu, the Solomons
    Isn't Pitcairn administered by the Aussies?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    There's not really any wide open space though. It is all heavily populated.

    .
    Absolute garbage. Take a geography course then buy several OS maps.
    I have almost a complete collection of OS maps, thanks.

    I've been for walks around Guildford and in the Surrey Hills. Meh. You can't exactly wander anywhere (thus meeting my definition of wide open space). You are definitely going to meet lots of people.

    The heathlands are OK but 90% of them are expensive golf courses (Some of which I've played, I admit. Past life.).
    And the Chiltern Hills? And the South Downs? Use more of your maps and get out there.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,206
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    The local parties in Gibraltar apparently didn't stand in European Parliament elections (presumably as little point given it was part of the SW England region), and instead endorsed the UK parties accordingly - 2014 saw a 49% swing to the LDs, and over the course of the period they could vote in them the Conservative vote dropped from 69.52% in 2004 to 2.7% in 2019, below even that of the Brexit Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_Gibraltar
    We really should incorporate- if they want - all the remaining fragments of the empire. Falklands, Caribbean, Indian Ocean, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Pitcairn, Tristan. South Georgia.

    We could even put in a late bid for PNG, Tuvalu, the Solomons
    Well, Tuvalu, I believe the smallest independent state by population (I don't count Vatican City), did reject abolition of the monarchy only 13 years ago, but it'd be an odd thing to go Indy and then change your mind.
    Papua New Guinea would be the big one. 9 million people. Vast incredible beautiful challenging island. Many stunning offshore islands.

    Lots of social problems, but also a land of enormous potential.

    A good partner and project for post brexit Britain.

    It was expected, when they went Indy, they would become a republic. They didn’t. They prefer the crown and links to Britain. Let us make them the fifth constituent nation in the UK
    A friend of mine was in Port Moresby, as he was visiting a gold mine. There were armed guards at the hotel entrance, and then warned him in no uncertain terms that it was unsafe to venture outside.

    My friend, no shrinking violet, who's traveled all over the Middle East, took their warnings seriously.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited March 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    There's not really any wide open space though. It is all heavily populated.

    .
    Absolute garbage. Take a geography course then buy several OS maps.
    I have almost a complete collection of OS maps, thanks.

    I've been for walks around Guildford and in the Surrey Hills. Meh. You can't exactly wander anywhere (thus meeting my definition of wide open space). You are definitely going to meet lots of people.

    The heathlands are OK but 90% of them are expensive golf courses (Some of which I've played, I admit. Past life.).
    You’re not doing it right. I’ve walked all the lovely bits around london for years. I often go hours without seeing someone else. In high summer

    Eg there’s a magnificent circular walk starting in Henley on Thames. It follows the river for a while (yes you may meet people here) but the river is majestic

    Then it climbs into the high beechwoods above the Thames on the ridge, and doubles back. You might meet one other person every hour for about four hours. Otherwise silence, and golden woods. Then it heads back to Henley. A cold beer, the station, and home

    Avoid weekends and bank holidays and you can enjoy blissful solitude


    Here’s the actual walk

    https://www.walkingclub.org.uk/walk/henley-circular-via-great-wood/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,206
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    Discovering the Chilterns was a big thing for me. I realised i could get an Uber to Marylebone Station. 5 minutes drive across regents park. Jump on the first train to wendover or tring. 40-50 minutes. From central london you are hurled into deep gorgeous hilly verdant countryside, in less than an hour. You can walk for hours and barely see anyone. On a hot summer’s day, with a good picnic, and a bottle of cold meursault, it is maybe the best fun on earth that doesn’t involve nudity

    Ditto the surrey hills from Waterloo
    I used to do that once a year, just to remind myself of how awful the countryside is.
  • https://twitter.com/PaulWilliamsLAB/status/1375426377281896451

    Labour needs to be proud of its last period in Government - it must stop shying away from all the good it achieved for so many.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    The local parties in Gibraltar apparently didn't stand in European Parliament elections (presumably as little point given it was part of the SW England region), and instead endorsed the UK parties accordingly - 2014 saw a 49% swing to the LDs, and over the course of the period they could vote in them the Conservative vote dropped from 69.52% in 2004 to 2.7% in 2019, below even that of the Brexit Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_Gibraltar
    We really should incorporate- if they want - all the remaining fragments of the empire. Falklands, Caribbean, Indian Ocean, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Pitcairn, Tristan. South Georgia.

    We could even put in a late bid for PNG, Tuvalu, the Solomons
    Isn't Pitcairn administered by the Aussies?
    No
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,206

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anyways. Vaccine side effect update (since every other bugger has had a go). Got the shot at 2:30 yesterday.
    Chills, minor headache, stiffness. Had a Lemsip at 6 in the evening. Much better since.
    Major symptom an overwhelming weariness.
    That and a persistent, niggling elation that I may have survived this.

    AZ?
    Yes.
    Given AZN is all pseudo-science, you must just be suffering from the placebo effect.
    Bill Gates came to me in a dream, hugged me, and whispered that all would be well.
    At least he didn't try and sell you a Zune.
    Believe it or not, there's a hardcore Zune community on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Zune?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    The local parties in Gibraltar apparently didn't stand in European Parliament elections (presumably as little point given it was part of the SW England region), and instead endorsed the UK parties accordingly - 2014 saw a 49% swing to the LDs, and over the course of the period they could vote in them the Conservative vote dropped from 69.52% in 2004 to 2.7% in 2019, below even that of the Brexit Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_Gibraltar
    We really should incorporate- if they want - all the remaining fragments of the empire. Falklands, Caribbean, Indian Ocean, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Pitcairn, Tristan. South Georgia.

    We could even put in a late bid for PNG, Tuvalu, the Solomons
    Well, Tuvalu, I believe the smallest independent state by population (I don't count Vatican City), did reject abolition of the monarchy only 13 years ago, but it'd be an odd thing to go Indy and then change your mind.
    Papua New Guinea would be the big one. 9 million people. Vast incredible beautiful challenging island. Many stunning offshore islands.

    Lots of social problems, but also a land of enormous potential.

    A good partner and project for post brexit Britain.

    It was expected, when they went Indy, they would become a republic. They didn’t. They prefer the crown and links to Britain. Let us make them the fifth constituent nation in the UK
    A friend of mine was in Port Moresby, as he was visiting a gold mine. There were armed guards at the hotel entrance, and then warned him in no uncertain terms that it was unsafe to venture outside.

    My friend, no shrinking violet, who's traveled all over the Middle East, took their warnings seriously.
    Yes, it is quite lively. An acquaintance of mine ran a hotel there. The workers were pretty good, a bit boozy, but they needed unusual rules. One accepted rule was that staff must be allowed a day or two off work, if they had to go home to their village to help murder someone. In a village feud. Then, having speared some poor sap to death, the worker would return to the hotel, and carry on as normal.

    The bars are ‘vibrant’
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anyways. Vaccine side effect update (since every other bugger has had a go). Got the shot at 2:30 yesterday.
    Chills, minor headache, stiffness. Had a Lemsip at 6 in the evening. Much better since.
    Major symptom an overwhelming weariness.
    That and a persistent, niggling elation that I may have survived this.

    AZ?
    Yes.
    Final question. "We have the AZ today. Are you ready to be vaccinated?"
    Hell yeah. Bring it on.
    I'm not sure whether I shared it here, but a friend of mine is a Parisian, whose mother is unfortunately struggling through cancer, and over the past month or so has been constantly in an out of hospital for surgery. Last time when she was in hospital a doctor offered her the (AZ) vaccine, two nurses behind him shook their heads vigorously, and bam she didn't get in. Due to go for a Pfizer vaccination in two weeks. Just utter madness.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,586
    Chameleon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anyways. Vaccine side effect update (since every other bugger has had a go). Got the shot at 2:30 yesterday.
    Chills, minor headache, stiffness. Had a Lemsip at 6 in the evening. Much better since.
    Major symptom an overwhelming weariness.
    That and a persistent, niggling elation that I may have survived this.

    AZ?
    Yes.
    Final question. "We have the AZ today. Are you ready to be vaccinated?"
    Hell yeah. Bring it on.
    I'm not sure whether I shared it here, but a friend of mine is a Parisian, whose mother is unfortunately struggling through cancer, and over the past month or so has been constantly in an out of hospital for surgery. Last time when she was in hospital a doctor offered her the (AZ) vaccine, two nurses behind him shook their heads vigorously, and bam she didn't get in. Due to go for a Pfizer vaccination in two weeks. Just utter madness.
    I always assumed countries like France and Germany were scientific and rational. The way they're behaving with the AZ vaccine seems to indicate otherwise, which is discombobulating.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    The local parties in Gibraltar apparently didn't stand in European Parliament elections (presumably as little point given it was part of the SW England region), and instead endorsed the UK parties accordingly - 2014 saw a 49% swing to the LDs, and over the course of the period they could vote in them the Conservative vote dropped from 69.52% in 2004 to 2.7% in 2019, below even that of the Brexit Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_Gibraltar
    We really should incorporate- if they want - all the remaining fragments of the empire. Falklands, Caribbean, Indian Ocean, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Pitcairn, Tristan. South Georgia.

    We could even put in a late bid for PNG, Tuvalu, the Solomons
    Isn't Pitcairn administered by the Aussies?
    No
    The Governor of Pitcairn’s day job is British High Commissioner to New Zealand, and I think they hire NZ judges to hear the few cases (other than you know, that one) that come up.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,586
    "Bristol protest: Glass bottles thrown at police - and lasers shone in officers' faces - at third 'Kill the Bill' demonstration"

    https://news.sky.com/story/bristol-protests-arrests-made-after-projectiles-thrown-at-police-following-sit-down-demonstration-in-bristol-12257872
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,671
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    There's not really any wide open space though. It is all heavily populated.

    .
    Absolute garbage. Take a geography course then buy several OS maps.
    I have almost a complete collection of OS maps, thanks.

    I've been for walks around Guildford and in the Surrey Hills. Meh. You can't exactly wander anywhere (thus meeting my definition of wide open space). You are definitely going to meet lots of people.

    The heathlands are OK but 90% of them are expensive golf courses (Some of which I've played, I admit. Past life.).
    You’re not doing it right. I’ve walked all the lovely bits around london for years. I often go hours without seeing someone else. In high summer

    Eg there’s a magnificent circular walk starting in Henley on Thames. It follows the river for a while (yes you may meet people here) but the river is majestic

    Then it climbs into the high beechwoods above the Thames on the ridge, and doubles back. You might meet one other person every hour for about four hours. Otherwise silence, and golden woods. Then it heads back to Henley. A cold beer, the station, and home

    Avoid weekends and bank holidays and you can enjoy blissful solitude


    Here’s the actual walk

    https://www.walkingclub.org.uk/walk/henley-circular-via-great-wood/
    I suspect I've done that very walk. I've certainly covered a lot of the Chilterns on foot and bike and I've definitely walked along the Thames from Goring to Henley (good for expensive houses if nothing else).

    Don't get me wrong, it wouldn't meet the description of 'awful', and from the point of view of London it is paradise.

    It just felt a bit...claustrophobic...to me. These things are very much a matter of taste, I suppose. Just as well we don't all want to live in the same places.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    The local parties in Gibraltar apparently didn't stand in European Parliament elections (presumably as little point given it was part of the SW England region), and instead endorsed the UK parties accordingly - 2014 saw a 49% swing to the LDs, and over the course of the period they could vote in them the Conservative vote dropped from 69.52% in 2004 to 2.7% in 2019, below even that of the Brexit Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_Gibraltar
    We really should incorporate- if they want - all the remaining fragments of the empire. Falklands, Caribbean, Indian Ocean, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Pitcairn, Tristan. South Georgia.

    We could even put in a late bid for PNG, Tuvalu, the Solomons
    Isn't Pitcairn administered by the Aussies?
    You're thinking of Norfolk Island.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    There's not really any wide open space though. It is all heavily populated.

    .
    Absolute garbage. Take a geography course then buy several OS maps.
    I have almost a complete collection of OS maps, thanks.

    I've been for walks around Guildford and in the Surrey Hills. Meh. You can't exactly wander anywhere (thus meeting my definition of wide open space). You are definitely going to meet lots of people.

    The heathlands are OK but 90% of them are expensive golf courses (Some of which I've played, I admit. Past life.).
    You’re not doing it right. I’ve walked all the lovely bits around london for years. I often go hours without seeing someone else. In high summer

    Eg there’s a magnificent circular walk starting in Henley on Thames. It follows the river for a while (yes you may meet people here) but the river is majestic

    Then it climbs into the high beechwoods above the Thames on the ridge, and doubles back. You might meet one other person every hour for about four hours. Otherwise silence, and golden woods. Then it heads back to Henley. A cold beer, the station, and home

    Avoid weekends and bank holidays and you can enjoy blissful solitude


    Here’s the actual walk

    https://www.walkingclub.org.uk/walk/henley-circular-via-great-wood/
    I suspect I've done that very walk. I've certainly covered a lot of the Chilterns on foot and bike and I've definitely walked along the Thames from Goring to Henley (good for expensive houses if nothing else).

    Don't get me wrong, it wouldn't meet the description of 'awful', and from the point of view of London it is paradise.

    It just felt a bit...claustrophobic...to me. These things are very much a matter of taste, I suppose. Just as well we don't all want to live in the same places.

    Well clearly if you want actual open lonely wilderness, south east England isn’t your best bet.

    But if you want beautiful walks, punctuated by pretty villages, medieval churches, lonely woodlands, rolling fields, stately homes, tea rooms, fine views, lovely pubs, and great spots for picnics, then it ticks every box. Better than almost anywhere on earth. And you are never far from a station where you can hop on a regular train and be back in a world city in 45 minutes.

    For real wilderness, absent a couple of spots in Scotland, you have to leave the UK, and probably Western Europe. Your best bet is Morocco. Or Iceland.

    Greenland is phenomenal but you can easily die
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,671
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    There's not really any wide open space though. It is all heavily populated.

    .
    Absolute garbage. Take a geography course then buy several OS maps.
    I have almost a complete collection of OS maps, thanks.

    I've been for walks around Guildford and in the Surrey Hills. Meh. You can't exactly wander anywhere (thus meeting my definition of wide open space). You are definitely going to meet lots of people.

    The heathlands are OK but 90% of them are expensive golf courses (Some of which I've played, I admit. Past life.).
    You’re not doing it right. I’ve walked all the lovely bits around london for years. I often go hours without seeing someone else. In high summer

    Eg there’s a magnificent circular walk starting in Henley on Thames. It follows the river for a while (yes you may meet people here) but the river is majestic

    Then it climbs into the high beechwoods above the Thames on the ridge, and doubles back. You might meet one other person every hour for about four hours. Otherwise silence, and golden woods. Then it heads back to Henley. A cold beer, the station, and home

    Avoid weekends and bank holidays and you can enjoy blissful solitude


    Here’s the actual walk

    https://www.walkingclub.org.uk/walk/henley-circular-via-great-wood/
    I suspect I've done that very walk. I've certainly covered a lot of the Chilterns on foot and bike and I've definitely walked along the Thames from Goring to Henley (good for expensive houses if nothing else).

    Don't get me wrong, it wouldn't meet the description of 'awful', and from the point of view of London it is paradise.

    It just felt a bit...claustrophobic...to me. These things are very much a matter of taste, I suppose. Just as well we don't all want to live in the same places.

    Well clearly if you want actual open lonely wilderness, south east England isn’t your best bet.

    But if you want beautiful walks, punctuated by pretty villages, medieval churches, lonely woodlands, rolling fields, stately homes, tea rooms, fine views, lovely pubs, and great spots for picnics, then it ticks every box. Better than almost anywhere on earth. And you are never far from a station where you can hop on a regular train and be back in a world city in 45 minutes.

    For real wilderness, absent a couple of spots in Scotland, you have to leave the UK, and probably Western Europe. Your best bet is Morocco. Or Iceland.

    Greenland is phenomenal but you can easily die
    Perhaps it was what I was doing at the time I lived there that coloured my view of southern England. Imposing my own personal claustrophobia at the time on the outside world if you like. For the kind of walk you describe, I will concede that there is nowhere better. Hopping on the train to get there probably helps as you don't have deal with the traffic, which does tend to spoil things. And if you are going to live in a city, why not go all in?

    I 'd still be keener on following RochdalePioneer to Buchan, though.

    For maximum open space in Blighty Fisherfield Forest or the central Cairngorms probably win, although the wind turbines creep ever closer. In England, the North Pennines or Northumberland perhaps, despite the grouse shooting. Otterburn when it is not being shot up by the army is definitely quiet.

    I do like the UK in general though. I haven't managed to leave it for 15 years now so it is just as well.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    As was also found in Israel, some combination of the risk at the vaccination centres and changes in behaviour too soon after vaccination is leading to post-vaccine infections:

    One in 25 people hospitalised with Covid-19 since December have had at least one dose of vaccine, with the majority infected shortly before or soon after vaccination – before immunity would have had time to develop

    There was a significant uptick in infection rates in the immediate aftermath of taking the vaccine... Almost certainly due to changed behavior.
    Whilst probably true, that is an assumption with only anecdotal evidence.

    Other possibilities are:

    - the act of travelling to and being inside a vaccination centre in itself presents some risk;
    - the immune system is somehow weakened or more susceptible while it is ‘busy’ processing the vaccination

    Dr Campbell floated the third, then discounted it as unlikely based on his anecdotal experience, but again without any evidence.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    kle4 said:

    Best border trivia is surely that bit between Egypt and Sudan which is supposedly last genuinely unclaimed land. Something to do with each side claiming ownership of a different bit of land from competing colonial agreements, and to claim the bit they want means they don't get this other bit, which is just nothing.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/03/welcome-to-the-land-that-no-country-wants-bir-tawil

    There was a good story back in 2018 about Belgium and the Netherlands doing a land swap on the River Meuse

    https://www.dw.com/en/belgium-and-netherlands-swap-land-in-the-new-year/a-41988494
    Didn't Norway give Finland a mountain top as a present for an anniversary of its independence, gifting it a new highest point in the country? Or maybe it was gifted to Sweden for the same reason, I forget the detail.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    Mini-Trump, take a bow....

    BBC News - The vaccine misinformation battle raging in France
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-56526265
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Best border trivia is surely that bit between Egypt and Sudan which is supposedly last genuinely unclaimed land. Something to do with each side claiming ownership of a different bit of land from competing colonial agreements, and to claim the bit they want means they don't get this other bit, which is just nothing.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/03/welcome-to-the-land-that-no-country-wants-bir-tawil

    There was a good story back in 2018 about Belgium and the Netherlands doing a land swap on the River Meuse

    https://www.dw.com/en/belgium-and-netherlands-swap-land-in-the-new-year/a-41988494
    Didn't Norway give Finland a mountain top as a present for an anniversary of its independence, gifting it a new highest point in the country? Or maybe it was gifted to Sweden for the same reason, I forget the detail.
    It was proposed in Norway, but they would have had to have amended their constitution to do it do the idea was dropped.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Best border trivia is surely that bit between Egypt and Sudan which is supposedly last genuinely unclaimed land. Something to do with each side claiming ownership of a different bit of land from competing colonial agreements, and to claim the bit they want means they don't get this other bit, which is just nothing.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/03/welcome-to-the-land-that-no-country-wants-bir-tawil

    There was a good story back in 2018 about Belgium and the Netherlands doing a land swap on the River Meuse

    https://www.dw.com/en/belgium-and-netherlands-swap-land-in-the-new-year/a-41988494
    Didn't Norway give Finland a mountain top as a present for an anniversary of its independence, gifting it a new highest point in the country? Or maybe it was gifted to Sweden for the same reason, I forget the detail.
    It was Finland, but sadly never happened, as the idea ran into difficulties with the constitution

    https://theculturetrip.com/europe/norway/articles/norway-has-been-trying-to-give-finland-a-mountain-as-birthday-gift-without-succeeding/
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    There's not really any wide open space though. It is all heavily populated.

    .
    Absolute garbage. Take a geography course then buy several OS maps.
    I have almost a complete collection of OS maps, thanks.

    I've been for walks around Guildford and in the Surrey Hills. Meh. You can't exactly wander anywhere (thus meeting my definition of wide open space). You are definitely going to meet lots of people.

    The heathlands are OK but 90% of them are expensive golf courses (Some of which I've played, I admit. Past life.).
    You’re not doing it right. I’ve walked all the lovely bits around london for years. I often go hours without seeing someone else. In high summer

    Eg there’s a magnificent circular walk starting in Henley on Thames. It follows the river for a while (yes you may meet people here) but the river is majestic

    Then it climbs into the high beechwoods above the Thames on the ridge, and doubles back. You might meet one other person every hour for about four hours. Otherwise silence, and golden woods. Then it heads back to Henley. A cold beer, the station, and home

    Avoid weekends and bank holidays and you can enjoy blissful solitude


    Here’s the actual walk

    https://www.walkingclub.org.uk/walk/henley-circular-via-great-wood/
    I suspect I've done that very walk. I've certainly covered a lot of the Chilterns on foot and bike and I've definitely walked along the Thames from Goring to Henley (good for expensive houses if nothing else).

    Don't get me wrong, it wouldn't meet the description of 'awful', and from the point of view of London it is paradise.

    It just felt a bit...claustrophobic...to me. These things are very much a matter of taste, I suppose. Just as well we don't all want to live in the same places.

    Well clearly if you want actual open lonely wilderness, south east England isn’t your best bet.

    But if you want beautiful walks, punctuated by pretty villages, medieval churches, lonely woodlands, rolling fields, stately homes, tea rooms, fine views, lovely pubs, and great spots for picnics, then it ticks every box. Better than almost anywhere on earth. And you are never far from a station where you can hop on a regular train and be back in a world city in 45 minutes.

    For real wilderness, absent a couple of spots in Scotland, you have to leave the UK, and probably Western Europe. Your best bet is Morocco. Or Iceland.

    Greenland is phenomenal but you can easily die
    Perhaps it was what I was doing at the time I lived there that coloured my view of southern England. Imposing my own personal claustrophobia at the time on the outside world if you like. For the kind of walk you describe, I will concede that there is nowhere better. Hopping on the train to get there probably helps as you don't have deal with the traffic, which does tend to spoil things. And if you are going to live in a city, why not go all in?

    I 'd still be keener on following RochdalePioneer to Buchan, though.

    For maximum open space in Blighty Fisherfield Forest or the central Cairngorms probably win, although the wind turbines creep ever closer. In England, the North Pennines or Northumberland perhaps, despite the grouse shooting. Otterburn when it is not being shot up by the army is definitely quiet.

    I do like the UK in general though. I haven't managed to leave it for 15 years now so it is just as well.
    Leon, I am surprised you did not talk up Dartmoor in terms of wilderness. Not huge areas, but it can feel very open and lonely.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Not “an awful lot”. That’s absolute rubbish.

    There are some crap towns but most of South East England is lovely. In terms of land area, the Chilterns, Surrey Hills, South Downs and The Weald account for much of the space. All are bucolic and pockmarked by great pubs and chocolate box villages.

    Much of Essex, Hertfordshire and parts of London are also lovely. The Thames meadowland through Berkshire and Oxfordshire is among the most lovely littoral land on Earth.

    So really your post was wrong. An awful lot of South East England is very nice indeed.
    Discovering the Chilterns was a big thing for me. I realised i could get an Uber to Marylebone Station. 5 minutes drive across regents park. Jump on the first train to wendover or tring. 40-50 minutes. From central london you are hurled into deep gorgeous hilly verdant countryside, in less than an hour. You can walk for hours and barely see anyone. On a hot summer’s day, with a good picnic, and a bottle of cold meursault, it is maybe the best fun on earth that doesn’t involve nudity

    Ditto the surrey hills from Waterloo
    I used to do that once a year, just to remind myself of how awful the countryside is.
    That's the dawn chorus outside, laughing at you.....
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    In New Orleans a century or so ago, the city brought in rocks, sand, etc. to construct a hill about 50 feet high or thereabouts.

    Just so the local schoolchildren would know what a "hill" was when they read about one in a book. Because otherwise only elevation in the area, was the natural levees on either side of the Mississippi River, except for that, everywhere was a few feet above sea level, if that.

    As for the Finns, don't reckon the NEED a mountain. They appear to do just fine in the lakes & lowlands.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    Bioko Island in Equatorial Guinea had close connections to the UK for a while, in its incarnation as Fernando Po.

    "After abolishing the British Atlantic slave trade, from 1827 to 1843 the British leased bases at Port Clarence (modern Malabo) and San Carlos for the African Slave Trade Patrol. The settlement at Port Clarence (named after the Duke of Clarence) was constructed under the supervision of William Fitzwilliam Owen. He had previously mapped most of the coasts of Africa and was a zealous anti-slaver. During his three-year command, his forces detained 20 ships and liberated 2,500 slaves. The Mixed Commission Court was moved from Freetown, Sierra Leone, to Clarence to hasten the legal process of emancipating slaves liberated from slave ships."

    The reason I mention it is for the fun on election day: the voters get bribed by the political parties with free booze. You do NOT want to be driving on Bioko Island on polling day....
  • LindonLightLindonLight Posts: 96
    edited March 2021
    The South West Coastal path is one of the toughest and remotest walks on earth. Period. It's insane. The toughest walk in the United Kingdom. 630 incredible miles. Up and bloody down, or rather down and bloody up, incessantly. It's staggeringly beautiful and unbelievably hard.

    You don't need to travel anywhere else on earth if you want to experience something truly rugged and remote. There are parts of the north coast in particular that are the hardest hiking I've ever done. I happen to love global travel and have hiked in the Alps and very remote locations but I recommend the SWCP: https://www.southwestcoastpath.org.uk

    And make sure to get to the Dorset ranges on one of their rare open weekends. The section from Lulworth Cove across to Swanage is so beautiful.

    At this point people will probably mention the book, The Salt Path which many loved. It was okay.

    Oh and don't rush it. It's a stupid thing to do. I have walked some sections more than thirty times, rather than trying to 'do' the walk - a curse of the modern age. Don't do. Be.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598

    The South West Coastal path is one of the toughest and remotest walks on earth. Period. It's insane. The toughest walk in the United Kingdom. 630 incredible miles. Up and bloody down, or rather down and bloody up, incessantly. It's staggeringly beautiful and unbelievably hard.

    You don't need to travel anywhere else on earth if you want to experience something truly rugged and remote. There are parts of the north coast in particular that are the hardest hiking I've ever done. I happen to love global travel and have hiked in the Alps and very remote locations but I recommend the SWCP: https://www.southwestcoastpath.org.uk

    And make sure to get to the Dorset ranges on one of their rare open weekends. The section from Lulworth Cove across to Swanage is so beautiful.

    At this point people will probably mention the book, The Salt Path which many loved. It was okay.

    Oh and don't rush it. It's a stupid thing to do. I have walked some sections more than thirty times, rather than trying to 'do' the walk - a curse of the modern age. Don't do. Be.

    I'm told there are only two properties that have blocked access to the actual coast itself, where you have to walk a little inland - both just south of Dartmouth. There have been negotiations ongoing, to gain access. One of the properties was recently on the market for c£7m. Not sure if the new owner will change tack and allow access - maybe not at that price. The other bought for around £5m and has engaged top-end lawyers to keep his privacy.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,804
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: qualifying is at 3pm. Will peruse the markets shortly.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: qualifying is at 3pm. Will peruse the markets shortly.

    Ah, Mr. Dancer, time to come out of diapause for the new season!
  • The South West Coastal path is one of the toughest and remotest walks on earth. Period. It's insane. The toughest walk in the United Kingdom. 630 incredible miles. Up and bloody down, or rather down and bloody up, incessantly. It's staggeringly beautiful and unbelievably hard.

    You don't need to travel anywhere else on earth if you want to experience something truly rugged and remote. There are parts of the north coast in particular that are the hardest hiking I've ever done. I happen to love global travel and have hiked in the Alps and very remote locations but I recommend the SWCP: https://www.southwestcoastpath.org.uk

    And make sure to get to the Dorset ranges on one of their rare open weekends. The section from Lulworth Cove across to Swanage is so beautiful.

    At this point people will probably mention the book, The Salt Path which many loved. It was okay.

    Oh and don't rush it. It's a stupid thing to do. I have walked some sections more than thirty times, rather than trying to 'do' the walk - a curse of the modern age. Don't do. Be.

    I'm told there are only two properties that have blocked access to the actual coast itself, where you have to walk a little inland - both just south of Dartmouth. There have been negotiations ongoing, to gain access. One of the properties was recently on the market for c£7m. Not sure if the new owner will change tack and allow access - maybe not at that price. The other bought for around £5m and has engaged top-end lawyers to keep his privacy.
    That's interesting. I've walked that part a few times and didn't really notice the deviations but I'm now wracking my brain to recall. It's fun to catch the Dartmouth steam railway from Paignton to Kingswear and then take the path either east or nip on the ferry and go west from Dartmouth (both very beautiful sections).

    There are a few other places where you have minor deviations inland, some for estuaries and others when landslips or cliff falls occur or for bridge repairs. The website is very good on updating these. For example there has been a minor diversion in place for a while at Sidmouth. That's another of my favourite sections, east of Sidmouth is stunningly beautiful.

    I've had moments on the north coast in a gale when I have literally been clinging onto the rocks to stay on the cliff. And many times I have gone a whole day without seeing a single person.

    It really is one of the great, great, walks and I thoroughly recommend it.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,804
    Betting Post

    F1: backed Bottas to win qualifying, each way (fifth the odds top three) at 12 (11 plus boost). I still think it's going to be down to two teams and Perez doesn't look dialled in yet.

    Intrigued to see how McLaren and Ferrari do.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    edited March 2021

    The South West Coastal path is one of the toughest and remotest walks on earth. Period. It's insane. The toughest walk in the United Kingdom. 630 incredible miles. Up and bloody down, or rather down and bloody up, incessantly. It's staggeringly beautiful and unbelievably hard.

    You don't need to travel anywhere else on earth if you want to experience something truly rugged and remote. There are parts of the north coast in particular that are the hardest hiking I've ever done. I happen to love global travel and have hiked in the Alps and very remote locations but I recommend the SWCP: https://www.southwestcoastpath.org.uk

    And make sure to get to the Dorset ranges on one of their rare open weekends. The section from Lulworth Cove across to Swanage is so beautiful.

    At this point people will probably mention the book, The Salt Path which many loved. It was okay.

    Oh and don't rush it. It's a stupid thing to do. I have walked some sections more than thirty times, rather than trying to 'do' the walk - a curse of the modern age. Don't do. Be.

    I'm told there are only two properties that have blocked access to the actual coast itself, where you have to walk a little inland - both just south of Dartmouth. There have been negotiations ongoing, to gain access. One of the properties was recently on the market for c£7m. Not sure if the new owner will change tack and allow access - maybe not at that price. The other bought for around £5m and has engaged top-end lawyers to keep his privacy.
    That's interesting. I've walked that part a few times and didn't really notice the deviations but I'm now wracking my brain to recall. It's fun to catch the Dartmouth steam railway from Paignton to Kingswear and then take the path either east or nip on the ferry and go west from Dartmouth (both very beautiful sections).

    There are a few other places where you have minor deviations inland, some for estuaries and others when landslips or cliff falls occur or for bridge repairs. The website is very good on updating these. For example there has been a minor diversion in place for a while at Sidmouth. That's another of my favourite sections, east of Sidmouth is stunningly beautiful.

    I've had moments on the north coast in a gale when I have literally been clinging onto the rocks to stay on the cliff. And many times I have gone a whole day without seeing a single person.

    It really is one of the great, great, walks and I thoroughly recommend it.
    Yes, the walk from Kingswear to Brixham is a great bit of coast - parts of it with a sense of remoteness that belie the activity going on just round the next headland.

    I walked the section around Little Dartmouth with the dog a couple of days ago. Great place to see Cirl Bunting and at this time of year, oil beetles.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    BREAKING: Tuesday’s weather likely to top 20C in the south!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    The South West Coastal path is one of the toughest and remotest walks on earth. Period. It's insane. The toughest walk in the United Kingdom. 630 incredible miles. Up and bloody down, or rather down and bloody up, incessantly. It's staggeringly beautiful and unbelievably hard.

    You don't need to travel anywhere else on earth if you want to experience something truly rugged and remote. There are parts of the north coast in particular that are the hardest hiking I've ever done. I happen to love global travel and have hiked in the Alps and very remote locations but I recommend the SWCP: https://www.southwestcoastpath.org.uk

    And make sure to get to the Dorset ranges on one of their rare open weekends. The section from Lulworth Cove across to Swanage is so beautiful.

    At this point people will probably mention the book, The Salt Path which many loved. It was okay.

    Oh and don't rush it. It's a stupid thing to do. I have walked some sections more than thirty times, rather than trying to 'do' the walk - a curse of the modern age. Don't do. Be.

    Yes, I did the bit between Port Isaac and Port Quin last summer. Very heard work, mostly steps up and down.
  • The South West Coastal path is one of the toughest and remotest walks on earth. Period. It's insane. The toughest walk in the United Kingdom. 630 incredible miles. Up and bloody down, or rather down and bloody up, incessantly. It's staggeringly beautiful and unbelievably hard.

    You don't need to travel anywhere else on earth if you want to experience something truly rugged and remote. There are parts of the north coast in particular that are the hardest hiking I've ever done. I happen to love global travel and have hiked in the Alps and very remote locations but I recommend the SWCP: https://www.southwestcoastpath.org.uk

    And make sure to get to the Dorset ranges on one of their rare open weekends. The section from Lulworth Cove across to Swanage is so beautiful.

    At this point people will probably mention the book, The Salt Path which many loved. It was okay.

    Oh and don't rush it. It's a stupid thing to do. I have walked some sections more than thirty times, rather than trying to 'do' the walk - a curse of the modern age. Don't do. Be.

    I'm told there are only two properties that have blocked access to the actual coast itself, where you have to walk a little inland - both just south of Dartmouth. There have been negotiations ongoing, to gain access. One of the properties was recently on the market for c£7m. Not sure if the new owner will change tack and allow access - maybe not at that price. The other bought for around £5m and has engaged top-end lawyers to keep his privacy.
    That's interesting. I've walked that part a few times and didn't really notice the deviations but I'm now wracking my brain to recall. It's fun to catch the Dartmouth steam railway from Paignton to Kingswear and then take the path either east or nip on the ferry and go west from Dartmouth (both very beautiful sections).

    There are a few other places where you have minor deviations inland, some for estuaries and others when landslips or cliff falls occur or for bridge repairs. The website is very good on updating these. For example there has been a minor diversion in place for a while at Sidmouth. That's another of my favourite sections, east of Sidmouth is stunningly beautiful.

    I've had moments on the north coast in a gale when I have literally been clinging onto the rocks to stay on the cliff. And many times I have gone a whole day without seeing a single person.

    It really is one of the great, great, walks and I thoroughly recommend it.
    Yes, the walk from Kingswear to Brixham is a great bit of coast - parts of it with a sense of remoteness that belie the activity going on just round the next headland.

    I walked the section around Little Dartmouth with the dog a couple of days ago. Great place to see Cirl Bunting and at this time of year, oil beetles.
    How gorgeous.

    One of the things I have loved are the surprising sections. I find the walk into Torbay wonderful from Babbacombe. It's surprisingly remote and then there's this lovely hidden pathway that twists and clings to the cliff around the headland into Torquay itself. It reminded me slightly of the famous Bowen Road in Hong Kong which is well worth doing.

    I think everyone has their favourite and least favourite sections. I found the Undercliff at Lyme Regis quite unnerving. Once you're in, you're in and there's no way out for c. 3 hours. The slog along the deep shingle from Abbotsbury is also very hard going. Chesil Beach may be amazing but it's tedious to walk along, or at least I found it so.

    I bumped into a three ladies doing the whole route with their pug and they too didn't like the Undercliff. More surprising to me was their dislike of the area around Clovelly. I guess it can feel quite enclosed too, but every so often the amazing north coast vista opens up.

    Parts of the path around, for instance, Hartland Point are the wildest place you will find in England in my opinion (to return to Leon's contention).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,453
    edited March 2021

    A fine bright morning here.... although it'\s not April, and the clocks are not striking thirteen...... and PB is full of cheerful posts about beautiful places and good walks.

    We're not far from Dedham and Flatford Mill, which, especially early on a morning like this is lovely.

    Are we set up for a positive day?

    We on pb.com know how to ramble!
    I haven't yet seen a post from Rambling Syd Rumpo!

    Ef: Corrected on checking; might be a useful nom de guerre here for someone!
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine how much more fun UK elections would be if we kept all these old colonies and incorporated those we still have.

    ‘It’s a tight race in Gozo, malta’

    ‘Labour doing well here in grand cayman island’

    ‘Reporting now from the famous beach of la digue, in the Seychelles, where the lib dems are putting up a stiff fight’

    ‘Breaking news from South Georgia: a lost deposit for the guano party, which is in coalition with UKIP’

    The local parties in Gibraltar apparently didn't stand in European Parliament elections (presumably as little point given it was part of the SW England region), and instead endorsed the UK parties accordingly - 2014 saw a 49% swing to the LDs, and over the course of the period they could vote in them the Conservative vote dropped from 69.52% in 2004 to 2.7% in 2019, below even that of the Brexit Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_Gibraltar
    We really should incorporate- if they want - all the remaining fragments of the empire. Falklands, Caribbean, Indian Ocean, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Pitcairn, Tristan. South Georgia.

    We could even put in a late bid for PNG, Tuvalu, the Solomons
    Well, Tuvalu, I believe the smallest independent state by population (I don't count Vatican City), did reject abolition of the monarchy only 13 years ago, but it'd be an odd thing to go Indy and then change your mind.
    Papua New Guinea would be the big one. 9 million people. Vast incredible beautiful challenging island. Many stunning offshore islands.

    Lots of social problems, but also a land of enormous potential.

    A good partner and project for post brexit Britain.

    It was expected, when they went Indy, they would become a republic. They didn’t. They prefer the crown and links to Britain. Let us make them the fifth constituent nation in the UK
    More the merrier I say.
    To be honest it would be worth doing just for the ecological protection we could offer, with sustainable tourism.
  • Kamski, no vaccine is 100% effective. There will still be some cases.

    By and large though these vaccines are stupendous and clearly reducing cases, case transmission and (crucially) serious illness. The evidence from Israel is conclusive.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    What’s interesting is that so far I don’t think the UK media has reported in cases among the vaccinated population. Our media have been truly terrible, but on this they’ve been remarkably responsible.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    It seems incredibly unlikely that the vaccines won’t offer at least some protection for some people. So even if, as is likely, new vaccines are continually produced, I don’t see COVID being a problem in terms of reopening the domestic economy. Unless your a zero COVID idiot, that is.
  • LindonLightLindonLight Posts: 96
    edited March 2021
    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    It's time to reboot. People are paralysed by fear. There's a 'what if?' mindset.

    These vaccines are doing a fantastic job. Israel is proof and there's conclusive early evidence of the same here. Variants are not going to gain enough traction against a predominantly vaccinated population. There will be some in circulation and some people will die. As they do with seasonal flu. Professor Tim Spector was right about all this yesterday.

    Time to get back on the horse, folks. Excess deaths are currently below the mean. Banish fear. Live life. Let's focus our population on getting fit and on wellbeing.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    It seems incredibly unlikely that the vaccines won’t offer at least some protection for some people. So even if, as is likely, new vaccines are continually produced, I don’t see COVID being a problem in terms of reopening the domestic economy. Unless your a zero COVID idiot, that is.
    With half the world circling the abyss, I wonder if the government is planning for that scenario. Whilst we all hope for the best, a government should plan for the worst. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that our current off-on scenario carries on for years.
  • The South West Coastal path is one of the toughest and remotest walks on earth. Period. It's insane. The toughest walk in the United Kingdom. 630 incredible miles. Up and bloody down, or rather down and bloody up, incessantly. It's staggeringly beautiful and unbelievably hard.

    You don't need to travel anywhere else on earth if you want to experience something truly rugged and remote. There are parts of the north coast in particular that are the hardest hiking I've ever done. I happen to love global travel and have hiked in the Alps and very remote locations but I recommend the SWCP: https://www.southwestcoastpath.org.uk

    And make sure to get to the Dorset ranges on one of their rare open weekends. The section from Lulworth Cove across to Swanage is so beautiful.

    At this point people will probably mention the book, The Salt Path which many loved. It was okay.

    Oh and don't rush it. It's a stupid thing to do. I have walked some sections more than thirty times, rather than trying to 'do' the walk - a curse of the modern age. Don't do. Be.

    I've done the whole thing. Took me 10 years.
    Many congratulations. That's a heck of an achievement.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: Tuesday’s weather likely to top 20C in the south!

    Got that day off.

    I'm going to pwn it. Might even do a day trip to Paradise Isle.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    The South West Coastal path is one of the toughest and remotest walks on earth. Period. It's insane. The toughest walk in the United Kingdom. 630 incredible miles. Up and bloody down, or rather down and bloody up, incessantly. It's staggeringly beautiful and unbelievably hard.

    You don't need to travel anywhere else on earth if you want to experience something truly rugged and remote. There are parts of the north coast in particular that are the hardest hiking I've ever done. I happen to love global travel and have hiked in the Alps and very remote locations but I recommend the SWCP: https://www.southwestcoastpath.org.uk

    And make sure to get to the Dorset ranges on one of their rare open weekends. The section from Lulworth Cove across to Swanage is so beautiful.

    At this point people will probably mention the book, The Salt Path which many loved. It was okay.

    Oh and don't rush it. It's a stupid thing to do. I have walked some sections more than thirty times, rather than trying to 'do' the walk - a curse of the modern age. Don't do. Be.

    I've done the whole thing. Took me 10 years.
    Many congratulations. That's a heck of an achievement.
    Thanks. I was very slow. I did it with 3 friends in 4-day hiking trips each year, where we did 50-60 miles at a time.

    We did c.15 miles a day and had lots of English breakfasts, pub lunches and cream teas.

    Bliss.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Jonathan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    It seems incredibly unlikely that the vaccines won’t offer at least some protection for some people. So even if, as is likely, new vaccines are continually produced, I don’t see COVID being a problem in terms of reopening the domestic economy. Unless your a zero COVID idiot, that is.
    With half the world circling the abyss, I wonder if the government is planning for that scenario. Whilst we all hope for the best, a government should plan for the worst. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that our current off-on scenario carries on for years.
    No, it is beyond the realms of possibilities. International travel might not return for some time, but COVID will cease to be a problem globally once the vaccines have done their work. Sadly, in some places like Brazil, herd immunity is likely to be reached naturally.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    I should also add the SWCP is one of the best experiences I've ever had. I saw such gorgeous and pristine coastline, throughout Dorset, Devon and Cornwall, as well as beautiful hidden beeches and picture-postcard villages.

    I loved every minute of it, despite the hiking effort and wild camping. So rewarding. My main regret is there was so much I simply can't remember it all. I should have taken notes. Instead I stared, paused and dreamt.

    I'd do it again. Definitely. You should too.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    It seems incredibly unlikely that the vaccines won’t offer at least some protection for some people. So even if, as is likely, new vaccines are continually produced, I don’t see COVID being a problem in terms of reopening the domestic economy. Unless your a zero COVID idiot, that is.
    With half the world circling the abyss, I wonder if the government is planning for that scenario. Whilst we all hope for the best, a government should plan for the worst. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that our current off-on scenario carries on for years.
    No, it is beyond the realms of possibilities. International travel might not return for some time, but COVID will cease to be a problem globally once the vaccines have done their work. Sadly, in some places like Brazil, herd immunity is likely to be reached naturally.
    Yes, I don't think that we can have international travel this year. The Isle of Wight for me, though that is my usual summer spot in any case. I am hopeful for Madeira in December, as it does seem that we get the boosters for variants by then. Madeira is very low risk anyway.

    I had rather fancied Botswana and Namibia in June, but the virus has done for that.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    It seems incredibly unlikely that the vaccines won’t offer at least some protection for some people. So even if, as is likely, new vaccines are continually produced, I don’t see COVID being a problem in terms of reopening the domestic economy. Unless your a zero COVID idiot, that is.
    With half the world circling the abyss, I wonder if the government is planning for that scenario. Whilst we all hope for the best, a government should plan for the worst. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that our current off-on scenario carries on for years.
    No, it is beyond the realms of possibilities. International travel might not return for some time, but COVID will cease to be a problem globally once the vaccines have done their work. Sadly, in some places like Brazil, herd immunity is likely to be reached naturally.
    I’ve heard people say ‘never’ before. I suspect there are few twists and turns yet and hope that the government is planning contingencies and finding ways to support the global rollout to reduce the likelihood of a mutant strain that resets the clock.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    It seems incredibly unlikely that the vaccines won’t offer at least some protection for some people. So even if, as is likely, new vaccines are continually produced, I don’t see COVID being a problem in terms of reopening the domestic economy. Unless your a zero COVID idiot, that is.
    With half the world circling the abyss, I wonder if the government is planning for that scenario. Whilst we all hope for the best, a government should plan for the worst. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that our current off-on scenario carries on for years.
    No, it is beyond the realms of possibilities. International travel might not return for some time, but COVID will cease to be a problem globally once the vaccines have done their work. Sadly, in some places like Brazil, herd immunity is likely to be reached naturally.
    Yes, I don't think that we can have international travel this year. The Isle of Wight for me, though that is my usual summer spot in any case. I am hopeful for Madeira in December, as it does seem that we get the boosters for variants by then. Madeira is very low risk anyway.

    I had rather fancied Botswana and Namibia in June, but the virus has done for that.
    Good grief, the Isle of Wight, has it come to that?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Jonathan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    It seems incredibly unlikely that the vaccines won’t offer at least some protection for some people. So even if, as is likely, new vaccines are continually produced, I don’t see COVID being a problem in terms of reopening the domestic economy. Unless your a zero COVID idiot, that is.
    With half the world circling the abyss, I wonder if the government is planning for that scenario. Whilst we all hope for the best, a government should plan for the worst. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that our current off-on scenario carries on for years.
    No, it is beyond the realms of possibilities. International travel might not return for some time, but COVID will cease to be a problem globally once the vaccines have done their work. Sadly, in some places like Brazil, herd immunity is likely to be reached naturally.
    I’ve heard people say ‘never’ before. I suspect there are few twists and turns yet and hope that the government is planning contingencies and finding ways to support the global rollout to reduce the likelihood of a mutant strain that resets the clock.
    But the clock won’t be reset, unless some new virus turns up (which will happen one day).
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    I am not worried so much at the moment about vaccines failing to stop most deaths and severe illness. I am more worried about things like the effect on the health system. Frontline health workers are mostly vaccinated in Germany (apart from some refusers). Hospitals in Germany are already likely to be close to capacity in a few weeks, but if the fully vaccinated staff are both having to take time off because of testing positive and potentially infecting others in the hospitals it might be a lot worse.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    edited March 2021
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    It seems incredibly unlikely that the vaccines won’t offer at least some protection for some people. So even if, as is likely, new vaccines are continually produced, I don’t see COVID being a problem in terms of reopening the domestic economy. Unless your a zero COVID idiot, that is.
    With half the world circling the abyss, I wonder if the government is planning for that scenario. Whilst we all hope for the best, a government should plan for the worst. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that our current off-on scenario carries on for years.
    No, it is beyond the realms of possibilities. International travel might not return for some time, but COVID will cease to be a problem globally once the vaccines have done their work. Sadly, in some places like Brazil, herd immunity is likely to be reached naturally.
    Yes, I don't think that we can have international travel this year. The Isle of Wight for me, though that is my usual summer spot in any case. I am hopeful for Madeira in December, as it does seem that we get the boosters for variants by then. Madeira is very low risk anyway.

    I had rather fancied Botswana and Namibia in June, but the virus has done for that.
    Good grief, the Isle of Wight, has it come to that?
    I go there several holidays per year, and have done so for decades. Mrs Foxy has lots of family there, but it is a great break too. Some bits are naff, others glorious, but that is true of most places. Rock pooling, fossicking for ammonites, watching boats and ships pass by are some of the simplistic and purest of pleasures.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: qualifying is at 3pm. Will peruse the markets shortly.

    Verstappen 2.1
    Hamilton 2.7
    Bottas 11
    Norris 18
    Perez 29
    Ricciardo 30
    100 bar those.

    I think Bottas is the value there.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    I am not worried so much at the moment about vaccines failing to stop most deaths and severe illness. I am more worried about things like the effect on the health system. Frontline health workers are mostly vaccinated in Germany (apart from some refusers). Hospitals in Germany are already likely to be close to capacity in a few weeks, but if the fully vaccinated staff are both having to take time off because of testing positive and potentially infecting others in the hospitals it might be a lot worse.
    I don’t know if this mirrors anyone else’s experience, my work colleagues are increasingly burnt out. Everyone needs a break and the hope of release is what’s sustaining them. Any bumps in the road will cause serious problems. It’s a difficult situation.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,804
    Mr. Sandpit, did you post that before or after reading my second post?

    That was my judgement also.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    It seems incredibly unlikely that the vaccines won’t offer at least some protection for some people. So even if, as is likely, new vaccines are continually produced, I don’t see COVID being a problem in terms of reopening the domestic economy. Unless your a zero COVID idiot, that is.
    With half the world circling the abyss, I wonder if the government is planning for that scenario. Whilst we all hope for the best, a government should plan for the worst. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that our current off-on scenario carries on for years.
    No, it is beyond the realms of possibilities. International travel might not return for some time, but COVID will cease to be a problem globally once the vaccines have done their work. Sadly, in some places like Brazil, herd immunity is likely to be reached naturally.
    Yes, I don't think that we can have international travel this year. The Isle of Wight for me, though that is my usual summer spot in any case. I am hopeful for Madeira in December, as it does seem that we get the boosters for variants by then. Madeira is very low risk anyway.

    I had rather fancied Botswana and Namibia in June, but the virus has done for that.
    Good grief, the Isle of Wight, has it come to that?
    I go there several holidays per year, and have done so for decades. Mrs Foxy has lots of family there, but it is a great break too. Some bits are naff, others glorious, but that is true of most places. Rock pooling, fossicking for ammonites, watching boats and ships pass by are some of the simplistic and purest of pleasures.
    IOW = rain, school trips, caravans and geriatrics. Maybe time to take another look. Like the little train.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    I am not worried so much at the moment about vaccines failing to stop most deaths and severe illness. I am more worried about things like the effect on the health system. Frontline health workers are mostly vaccinated in Germany (apart from some refusers). Hospitals in Germany are already likely to be close to capacity in a few weeks, but if the fully vaccinated staff are both having to take time off because of testing positive and potentially infecting others in the hospitals it might be a lot worse.
    I don’t know if this mirrors anyone else’s experience, my work colleagues are increasingly burnt out. Everyone needs a break and the hope of release is what’s sustaining them. Any bumps in the road will cause serious problems. It’s a difficult situation.
    yes, it's certainly unsettling the vaccinated health workers who know about these kinds of cases, who are already often mentally on the edge. it's not being reported in the media, which is probably a good thing - but I also have no clue about how widespread it is.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    edited March 2021
    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    I am not worried so much at the moment about vaccines failing to stop most deaths and severe illness. I am more worried about things like the effect on the health system. Frontline health workers are mostly vaccinated in Germany (apart from some refusers). Hospitals in Germany are already likely to be close to capacity in a few weeks, but if the fully vaccinated staff are both having to take time off because of testing positive and potentially infecting others in the hospitals it might be a lot worse.
    Our third wave is nearly over. In Leicester we now have just a dozen in ICU, down from 70 in January, and 75 on the wards, down from 500 at the peak. The attrition on staff still shows. I don't know where the permanent ICU staff have gone, but we cannot staff it except using operating theatre nurses and ODPs. We are at least another month off being able to operate on the waiting list.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    Jonathan said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Like a few places in Germany, Cologne is tightening its regulations.
    But I don't understand why again they are making the rule: In *public* places you can only meet one other person from another household - this just seems to encourage people to meet inside in their private homes rather than outside in the park.
    Non essential shops are closing again. Hairdressers are staying open, I read it's because the German constitution guarantees "human dignity", but I don't think there has been any actual court ruling on this.

    I know of another case locally of someone getting ill from coronavirus weeks after being fully vaccinated, not sure which variant yet, the others were P1. But it looks like Pfizer might give quite reduced protection against P1 (Brazil) unless this is just a random cluster.
    What's also worrying is that there doesn't seem to be much response. The local Gesundheitsamt knows, and is worried, but surely there should be some national body swooping in and saying we need to urgently find out what is happening here. But this is Germany.

    The initial studies were quite good for Pfizer and AZ against the P1 strain with only s limited dilution effect. Neither were great against the SA variant. So far only Novavax has got any kind of clinical efficacy against mild symptoms, but the reality is that both Pfizer and AZ have shown greatly reduced severe symptoms so there's no reason not to get either even against the SA variant.

    I think the same lab tests are being conducted for Moderna, Novavax and J&J for the P1 strain so we should get modelled efficacy for those soon as well.
    Yes, but I am also worried about transmission. Of the cases I know, 1 fully vaccinated person has quite bad fever etc but not admitted to hospital. He seems to have passed it onto 2 fully vaccinated colleagues - usually they are wearing FPP2 masks at work but I think they were eating in the same room. The other case is someone who was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and tested positive despite being vaccinated, but the pneumonia might not be from the virus.

    And yes, my assumption is the vaccines are going to at the very least help stop the variants killing you so I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should think twice about getting vaccinated.
    I wonder if behind the rhetoric the government is planning contingencies if the first gen vaccines are superseded by new variants. How they would manage the political fallout I can’t imagine.
    I am not worried so much at the moment about vaccines failing to stop most deaths and severe illness. I am more worried about things like the effect on the health system. Frontline health workers are mostly vaccinated in Germany (apart from some refusers). Hospitals in Germany are already likely to be close to capacity in a few weeks, but if the fully vaccinated staff are both having to take time off because of testing positive and potentially infecting others in the hospitals it might be a lot worse.
    I don’t know if this mirrors anyone else’s experience, my work colleagues are increasingly burnt out. Everyone needs a break and the hope of release is what’s sustaining them. Any bumps in the road will cause serious problems. It’s a difficult situation.
    I wasn't (and I'm still not) happy with my professional performance through January and February. I had depression and really struggled to work. In fact, on one or two days I did absolutely nothing.

    Thankfully, I just about managed to stay on top of it so my employer and client never knew. And my client seems fairly happy with what I produced, so I'm now off until just after Easter Monday to use up my leave by year end.

    But, I almost blew it and I know I could have done so much better and produced more stuff of a higher quality if my head had been in the right place.

    Close shave.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited March 2021

    Mr. Sandpit, did you post that before or after reading my second post?

    That was my judgement also.

    Just saw your post. Great minds... ;)

    I still think Mercedes will be able to turn it up when it matters.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,421
    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of disappointing places in the UK, an awful lot of the south-east — which is wealthy on paper — is pretty awful in reality. Places like Woking for example. The problem is the population density in those areas. The opposite is true of a lot of places outside the south-east.

    Private wealth, public squalor.

    I'd guess that if you were to visit a handful of the wealthier households you would have a different impression.
This discussion has been closed.