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Rogue Lawyer – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited March 24 in General
imageRogue Lawyer – politicalbetting.com

 “A basic rule of government is …… never set up an inquiry unless you know in advance what its findings will be.” (Sir Humphrey to Jim Hacker, Yes Minister 1980).

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,199
    edited March 24
    First....to say the EU are acting like total twats.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,199
    Leon said:

    felix said:

    It's amazing. AZ's tweets (see below in @Leon's 2.25pm post) are perfectly clear, and explain where these vaccines are going and when. And yet the European anti-AZ zealots are somehow managing to find even more fuel for their barmy conspiracy theories, such as this idiocy:

    https://twitter.com/chrismiller_uk/status/1374728593448833026

    They are just like the Brexiteers, viewing everything through a distorting lens of bile and fantasy. It's a remarkable sight.

    Gosh you're so obsessed with the Brexit thing you've lost all ability to be detached. Bizarre that you cannot see what you are doing.
    Poppycock. I'm perfectly detached from both sets of the deranged. It's just that the similarities between them are so striking. One lot think the EU can do no good and automatically conspiring against us, the other lot think everything the EU does is automatically good and that AZ are conspiring against them. Both lots ignore perfectly obvious and innocents explanations for what they think are dastardly plots.

    But maybe I shouldn't be surprised, come to think of it. It's insecurity driving both, so perhaps it's to be expected that the reactions are so similar.
    Except the EU are openly conspiring against us right now. They aren't hiding it.
    Fair point.

    Unless it's just theatre, of course, which is possible.
    Or brinkmanship. They want the UK to agree to ‘export’ AZ to them. So they can claim a bizarre ‘victory’, disguising their failures. Then the ban is forgotten

    But we haven’t budged. So they’ve painted themselves into a corner?

    Possible
    I am intrigued who briefed the media over the weekend that was exactly what Boris was going to agree to.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,261

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    It's amazing. AZ's tweets (see below in @Leon's 2.25pm post) are perfectly clear, and explain where these vaccines are going and when. And yet the European anti-AZ zealots are somehow managing to find even more fuel for their barmy conspiracy theories, such as this idiocy:

    https://twitter.com/chrismiller_uk/status/1374728593448833026

    They are just like the Brexiteers, viewing everything through a distorting lens of bile and fantasy. It's a remarkable sight.

    Gosh you're so obsessed with the Brexit thing you've lost all ability to be detached. Bizarre that you cannot see what you are doing.
    Poppycock. I'm perfectly detached from both sets of the deranged. It's just that the similarities between them are so striking. One lot think the EU can do no good and automatically conspiring against us, the other lot think everything the EU does is automatically good and that AZ are conspiring against them. Both lots ignore perfectly obvious and innocents explanations for what they think are dastardly plots.

    But maybe I shouldn't be surprised, come to think of it. It's insecurity driving both, so perhaps it's to be expected that the reactions are so similar.
    Except the EU are openly conspiring against us right now. They aren't hiding it.
    Fair point.

    Unless it's just theatre, of course, which is possible.
    Or brinkmanship. They want the UK to agree to ‘export’ AZ to them. So they can claim a bizarre ‘victory’, disguising their failures. Then the ban is forgotten

    But we haven’t budged. So they’ve painted themselves into a corner?

    Possible
    I am intrigued who briefed the media over the weekend that was exactly what Boris was going to agree to.
    I think that various people have nailed their trousers to the masthead.

    Which makes climbing down a tad difficult....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 64,142
    Yes Minister and Chernobyl quotes? You spoil us.

    The gov has pushed too hard on this issue. Would they want it if not in power? I doubt it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,199
    edited March 24
    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats from the kill the bill protests in Bristol.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,199
    Vladimir Putin moved a step closer to becoming 'president for life' today as Russian MPs approved a law that would let him stay in power until 2036.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397791/Russian-MPs-approve-law-paves-way-Putin-stay-power-2036.html

    But when will he ever get chance to use that billion dollar palace?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,261

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 3,137

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats from the kill the bill protests in Bristol.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    I think it's easier to ready calmly to a blip against you when you're receiving praise for your overall performance.

    As the dishonesty detailed in the thread header makes clear, it seems pretty obvious that, if the situation were reversed, the British government would be deploying every falsehood they could think of to deflect the blame.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 8,020
    Your daily reminder that the much-vaunted 'export ban' won't happen, and never was happening.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 4,727

    Your daily reminder that the much-vaunted 'export ban' won't happen, and never was happening.

    Ask Papua New Guineans how they feel....


    https://twitter.com/theraseweeks/status/1373494334369136640?s=21
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 646
    The problem is that, although we are a law-abiding and fairly docile people, this is the case only as long as we believe that the powers-that-be are making decisions and doing things in accordance with the rules and established practice.

    The present gang of liars, cheats and scallywags could not care less about following the rule-book and established practice. It follows that nobody should pay any heed at all to what they decree - nor to any of the established intruments for imposing the decisions of the state. The law, the police, all authority figures have been corrupted by Johnson and his unprincipled gang.

    For my part, I do what I think is correct on the basis of ethics - something that was derided considerably by our own TSE recently, when one of his courses told him that lawyers ought to pay attention to ethical principles. The fact that the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority in the House of Commons - won by non-transparent means - is not sufficient to boss me around.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 1,691
    So no need to fill the car on my way home then?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 8,020
    Leon said:

    Your daily reminder that the much-vaunted 'export ban' won't happen, and never was happening.

    Ask Papua New Guineans how they feel....


    https://twitter.com/theraseweeks/status/1373494334369136640?s=21
    Sure, I was referring specifically to Europe. Should have made that clear. Apologies.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 30,577

    So no need to fill the car on my way home then?
    Fill your car up.

    The ship may (or may not, reports are conflicting) have been refloated, but it's going to be chaos for a week at least in the Gulf...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 30,577
    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    As far as I can see, the only country that fits all the criteria of the new export ban is the UK. This law is carefully designed to hit us, exclusively
    UAE recently signed a contract to produce Sinopharm vaccines. I expect UAE and Israel to be covered by the EU ban too.

    I want my second Pfizer vaccine on 9th April, thanks.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 28,352
    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    As far as I can see, the only country that fits all the criteria of the new export ban is the UK. This law is carefully designed to hit us, exclusively
    Undoubtedly. However, they have left themselves a get-out, which is the bit about countries exporting products needed for vaccine manufacture, which might exclude the UK from their criteria, maybe. It all depends on whether they are blustering or really do want to shoot themselves in both feet.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 39,695
    Floater said:
    If they tried to frame a Spiteful Bastards law, could the EU improve on this?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 30,244

    Vladimir Putin moved a step closer to becoming 'president for life' today as Russian MPs approved a law that would let him stay in power until 2036.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397791/Russian-MPs-approve-law-paves-way-Putin-stay-power-2036.html

    But when will he ever get chance to use that billion dollar palace?

    https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1374495598259306497
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,176
    On Topic:

    But voters don’t seem to care. Nor do MPs. So both are getting what they want.

    And quite right too - we have a democracy, not a dicastocracy.
  • felixfelix Posts: 12,583
    ClippP said:

    The problem is that, although we are a law-abiding and fairly docile people, this is the case only as long as we believe that the powers-that-be are making decisions and doing things in accordance with the rules and established practice.

    The present gang of liars, cheats and scallywags could not care less about following the rule-book and established practice. It follows that nobody should pay any heed at all to what they decree - nor to any of the established intruments for imposing the decisions of the state. The law, the police, all authority figures have been corrupted by Johnson and his unprincipled gang.

    For my part, I do what I think is correct on the basis of ethics - something that was derided considerably by our own TSE recently, when one of his courses told him that lawyers ought to pay attention to ethical principles. The fact that the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority in the House of Commons - won by non-transparent means - is not sufficient to boss me around.

    Steady on - where are the moderators? He said 'scallywags' with a pomposity to rival JRM!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 4,727
    edited March 24

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    As far as I can see, the only country that fits all the criteria of the new export ban is the UK. This law is carefully designed to hit us, exclusively
    Undoubtedly. However, they have left themselves a get-out, which is the bit about countries exporting products needed for vaccine manufacture, which might exclude the UK from their criteria, maybe. It all depends on whether they are blustering or really do want to shoot themselves in both feet.
    Yes. Hard to call. Normally I’d say ‘theatre’. But look at the mad Merkel u-turn today. And Macron is petrified of losing to Le Pen, so he wants to appear ‘hard’. They might follow through in a spasm of lunacy
  • eekeek Posts: 11,669
    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    As far as I can see, the only country that fits all the criteria of the new export ban is the UK. This law is carefully designed to hit us, exclusively
    I suspect the law is designed to hit no one - it's just there to ensure the EU look to be doing something while pointing the blame away from the real culprits (who just happen to be the EU).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 10,316
    O/T

    "Sussexes' aide says all white people are 'rife with internalised racism'

    Genevieve Roth, the Duke and Duchess' new strategist, said she realised her 'unconscious bias' after marrying her black husband"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2021/03/23/sussexes-aide-says-white-people-rife-internalised-racism/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 19,861
    edited March 24
    I like the quote at the end of the header. There's a similar one from the Buddha -

    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."

    I like this one too but I'm not sure how true it is. Let's see what happens in Hartlepool.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 30,577
    Still very much stuck, despite the best efforts of at least seven tugs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 10,316
    The fact they're still allowing foreign holidays is difficult to believe.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 39,695
    Checks are made going into Majorca. None at all going back into Germany. (WatO today)

    It's UK 2020 Redux.....
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 646
    felix said:

    ClippP said:

    The problem is that, although we are a law-abiding and fairly docile people, this is the case only as long as we believe that the powers-that-be are making decisions and doing things in accordance with the rules and established practice.

    The present gang of liars, cheats and scallywags could not care less about following the rule-book and established practice. It follows that nobody should pay any heed at all to what they decree - nor to any of the established intruments for imposing the decisions of the state. The law, the police, all authority figures have been corrupted by Johnson and his unprincipled gang.

    For my part, I do what I think is correct on the basis of ethics - something that was derided considerably by our own TSE recently, when one of his courses told him that lawyers ought to pay attention to ethical principles. The fact that the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority in the House of Commons - won by non-transparent means - is not sufficient to boss me around.

    Steady on - where are the moderators? He said 'scallywags' with a pomposity to rival JRM!
    Is that not a term you use yourself, Mr Felix?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 3,387
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    As far as I can see, the only country that fits all the criteria of the new export ban is the UK. This law is carefully designed to hit us, exclusively
    I suspect the law is designed to hit no one - it's just there to ensure the EU look to be doing something while pointing the blame away from the real culprits (who just happen to be the EU).
    Which is what many thought about the original monitoring and permission system, then they went and stopped vaccines going to the australians
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 8,020
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    As far as I can see, the only country that fits all the criteria of the new export ban is the UK. This law is carefully designed to hit us, exclusively
    I suspect the law is designed to hit no one - it's just there to ensure the EU look to be doing something while pointing the blame away from the real culprits (who just happen to be the EU).
    Indeed. Some PBers need to calm down and understand the difference between grandstanding and reality.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 4,727
    Andy_JS said:

    The fact they're still allowing foreign holidays is difficult to believe.
    If the Germans want to get a grip on Wave 3, perhaps they should consider a proper lockdown, rather than trying to kill Brits with a pointless vaccine war. Just an idea
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,199
    edited March 24

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    Yeah but they are Canadian, they probably even said sorry to Pfizer for asking about where their delivery was.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 11,012
    kinabalu said:

    I like the quote at the end of the header. There's a similar one from the Buddha -

    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."

    I like this one too but I'm not sure how true it is. Let's see what happens in Hartlepool.

    Consulted fake Buddha quotes on that. (There are a great number around).
    Conclusion. Fake-ish. Inaccurate paraphrase.
    https://fakebuddhaquotes.com/three-things-cannot-be-long-hidden-the-sun-the-moon-and-the-truth/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,261

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    Yeah but they are Canadian, they probably even said sorry to Pfizer for asking about where their delivery was.
    On a serious note.

    Given what is going on, is there any doubt that any communication between European countries and AZN will be going through the AZN legal department, the AZN PR department and several other structures assembled with AZN to handle this?

    Which is going to make improving things a slow process....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,199

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    Yeah but they are Canadian, they probably even said sorry to Pfizer for asking about where their delivery was.
    On a serious note.

    Given what is going on, is there any doubt that any communication between European countries and AZN will be going through the AZN legal department, the AZN PR department and several other structures assembled with AZN to handle this?

    Which is going to make improving things a slow process....
    If I was AZN, I would just send their calls straight to voicemail and set emails to out of office.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,448
    Nigelb said:

    Vladimir Putin moved a step closer to becoming 'president for life' today as Russian MPs approved a law that would let him stay in power until 2036.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397791/Russian-MPs-approve-law-paves-way-Putin-stay-power-2036.html

    But when will he ever get chance to use that billion dollar palace?

    https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1374495598259306497
    My understanding of the Sputnik vaccine was that it was very similar to the AZ one - to the point of raising questions about espoinage.
    It would be ironic (would it?) if Germany ended up getting a Russian knock-off of AZ in order to allay the fears it had stoked up about the AZ vaccine.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,261

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    Yeah but they are Canadian, they probably even said sorry to Pfizer for asking about where their delivery was.
    On a serious note.

    Given what is going on, is there any doubt that any communication between European countries and AZN will be going through the AZN legal department, the AZN PR department and several other structures assembled with AZN to handle this?

    Which is going to make improving things a slow process....
    If I was AZN, I would just send their calls straight to voicemail and set emails to out of office.
    Which would be stupid - and create an own goal.

    My point is a genuine concern - the parties need to work together on this. Legal lockdown on communications will only make things much, much worse...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 2,448

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    And not just Canada; Norway, Australia, New Zealand and I am sure many others. All have had issues with supply just like the EU and the UK. It is inevitable given the extraordinary timetable involved in rolling out these vaccines.

    This is what is missing from so much of the analysis. It is not the case of the UK and the EU behaving differently and this being driven by Brexit as some like to claim. It is the EU - and particularly some of its major countries - behaving like a spoiled brat whilst the rest of the world behaves like adults. It is shocking for those of us who saw the EU as a malign but clever entity to find out it is neither malign, nor clever, simply very very childish.
    Like many organisations, for a long time it has managed to mask its uselessness with sheer size.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 3,291
    kinabalu said:

    I like the quote at the end of the header. There's a similar one from the Buddha -

    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."

    I like this one too but I'm not sure how true it is. Let's see what happens in Hartlepool.

    And, from Chaucer, but presumably a popular saying at the time, "The truth will out"
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 8,020
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    As far as I can see, the only country that fits all the criteria of the new export ban is the UK. This law is carefully designed to hit us, exclusively
    I suspect the law is designed to hit no one - it's just there to ensure the EU look to be doing something while pointing the blame away from the real culprits (who just happen to be the EU).
    Indeed. Some PBers need to calm down and understand the difference between grandstanding and reality.
    Wtf are you talking about. Time and again through the vaccine omnishambles the EU has proved itself capable of doing mad things FOR REAL

    Temporarily create a hard border in Ireland? Check
    Brief that a fine vaccine is only 8% effective? Check
    Tell everyone, as president of France, that the same vaccine is near-useless? Check
    Prevent legal purchased vaccine exports to Australia? Check
    Suspend use of a vaccine for days on entirely spurious grounds? Check
    Then publicly do a screeching u turn 4 days later? Check
    Raid an Italian factory and say you’ve found 29m secret jabs destined for Britain which turn out to be 29m jabs destined for the EU and poor countries? Check

    I’d love to believe the EU is just ‘grandstanding’. But recent history tells us they are completely capable of doing insane things, in reality. We shall see
    I'm not defending them, not in any way. I think their behaviour this winter has been exponentially bonkers. But the fact remains that there are enough grownups in the EU to stop an export ban happening. A fig leaf will be found, a fudge, that their more muscular elements can present as a victory (which will in reality make no difference).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 4,727

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    And not just Canada; Norway, Australia, New Zealand and I am sure many others. All have had issues with supply just like the EU and the UK. It is inevitable given the extraordinary timetable involved in rolling out these vaccines.

    This is what is missing from so much of the analysis. It is not the case of the UK and the EU behaving differently and this being driven by Brexit as some like to claim. It is the EU - and particularly some of its major countries - behaving like a spoiled brat whilst the rest of the world behaves like adults. It is shocking for those of us who saw the EU as a malign but clever entity to find out it is neither malign, nor clever, simply very very childish.
    It’s not childishness. It’s more a religious mindset challenged by deeply problematic truths.

    Put it another way, some of the EU elite reaction to the vaccine issue reminds me of ecclesiastical reaction to Darwin’s theories in the 19th century. A mixture of injured pride, ineffectual pomposity, terrible argumentation and bewildered denialism. ‘This simply cannot be true.’
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 8,020

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    Yeah but they are Canadian, they probably even said sorry to Pfizer for asking about where their delivery was.
    On a serious note.

    Given what is going on, is there any doubt that any communication between European countries and AZN will be going through the AZN legal department, the AZN PR department and several other structures assembled with AZN to handle this?

    Which is going to make improving things a slow process....
    If I was AZN, I would just send their calls straight to voicemail and set emails to out of office.
    Stupid advice. Stopping communicating is the worst of all possible worlds.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 3,291
    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    I like the quote at the end of the header. There's a similar one from the Buddha -

    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."

    I like this one too but I'm not sure how true it is. Let's see what happens in Hartlepool.

    And, from Chaucer, but presumably a popular saying at the time, "The truth will out"
    Sorry, got the quote wrong. In Chaucer it is 'murder will out'
  • Seems the difference in pollsters at the moment is how strong or weak Labour is
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 3,317
    In an alternative world, Pfizer's 2014 attempt to buy AstraZeneca succeeded, and absolutely none of this is happening.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 39,695
    edited March 24
    Leon said:

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    And not just Canada; Norway, Australia, New Zealand and I am sure many others. All have had issues with supply just like the EU and the UK. It is inevitable given the extraordinary timetable involved in rolling out these vaccines.

    This is what is missing from so much of the analysis. It is not the case of the UK and the EU behaving differently and this being driven by Brexit as some like to claim. It is the EU - and particularly some of its major countries - behaving like a spoiled brat whilst the rest of the world behaves like adults. It is shocking for those of us who saw the EU as a malign but clever entity to find out it is neither malign, nor clever, simply very very childish.
    It’s not childishness. It’s more a religious mindset challenged by deeply problematic truths.

    Put it another way, some of the EU elite reaction to the vaccine issue reminds me of ecclesiastical reaction to Darwin’s theories in the 19th century. A mixture of injured pride, ineffectual pomposity, terrible argumentation and bewildered denialism. ‘This simply cannot be true.’
    Superb analogy.

    A life's certainties upended.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 23,433
    Leon said:

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    And not just Canada; Norway, Australia, New Zealand and I am sure many others. All have had issues with supply just like the EU and the UK. It is inevitable given the extraordinary timetable involved in rolling out these vaccines.

    This is what is missing from so much of the analysis. It is not the case of the UK and the EU behaving differently and this being driven by Brexit as some like to claim. It is the EU - and particularly some of its major countries - behaving like a spoiled brat whilst the rest of the world behaves like adults. It is shocking for those of us who saw the EU as a malign but clever entity to find out it is neither malign, nor clever, simply very very childish.
    It’s not childishness. It’s more a religious mindset challenged by deeply problematic truths.

    Put it another way, some of the EU elite reaction to the vaccine issue reminds me of ecclesiastical reaction to Darwin’s theories in the 19th century. A mixture of injured pride, ineffectual pomposity, terrible argumentation and bewildered denialism. ‘This simply cannot be true.’
    I think 'childish' covers everything you have described there pretty well. :)
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,176
    edited March 24
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    I like the quote at the end of the header. There's a similar one from the Buddha -

    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."

    I like this one too but I'm not sure how true it is. Let's see what happens in Hartlepool.

    And, from Chaucer, but presumably a popular saying at the time, "The truth will out"
    Sorry, got the quote wrong. In Chaucer it is 'murder will out'
    It's kind of amusing that both quotes on this thread concerning the irrepressibility of the truth turned out to be false...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 30,577

    Leon said:

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    And not just Canada; Norway, Australia, New Zealand and I am sure many others. All have had issues with supply just like the EU and the UK. It is inevitable given the extraordinary timetable involved in rolling out these vaccines.

    This is what is missing from so much of the analysis. It is not the case of the UK and the EU behaving differently and this being driven by Brexit as some like to claim. It is the EU - and particularly some of its major countries - behaving like a spoiled brat whilst the rest of the world behaves like adults. It is shocking for those of us who saw the EU as a malign but clever entity to find out it is neither malign, nor clever, simply very very childish.
    It’s not childishness. It’s more a religious mindset challenged by deeply problematic truths.

    Put it another way, some of the EU elite reaction to the vaccine issue reminds me of ecclesiastical reaction to Darwin’s theories in the 19th century. A mixture of injured pride, ineffectual pomposity, terrible argumentation and bewildered denialism. ‘This simply cannot be true.’
    Superb analogy.
    He's definitely wasting his time knapping flints, should be a writer...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 2,935
    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    I like the quote at the end of the header. There's a similar one from the Buddha -

    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."

    I like this one too but I'm not sure how true it is. Let's see what happens in Hartlepool.

    And, from Chaucer, but presumably a popular saying at the time, "The truth will out"
    'Truth will out' is Shakespeare

    'Murder will out' is Chaucer.

    On topic, if Labour wish to be an opposition who wish to be a government other than by accident we need to know, among other things:

    What would they put in place of Tory immigration/refugee proposals

    and

    What would they put in place in respect of the current consultation on judicial review etc.

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 23,433

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    As far as I can see, the only country that fits all the criteria of the new export ban is the UK. This law is carefully designed to hit us, exclusively
    I suspect the law is designed to hit no one - it's just there to ensure the EU look to be doing something while pointing the blame away from the real culprits (who just happen to be the EU).
    Indeed. Some PBers need to calm down and understand the difference between grandstanding and reality.
    Wtf are you talking about. Time and again through the vaccine omnishambles the EU has proved itself capable of doing mad things FOR REAL

    Temporarily create a hard border in Ireland? Check
    Brief that a fine vaccine is only 8% effective? Check
    Tell everyone, as president of France, that the same vaccine is near-useless? Check
    Prevent legal purchased vaccine exports to Australia? Check
    Suspend use of a vaccine for days on entirely spurious grounds? Check
    Then publicly do a screeching u turn 4 days later? Check
    Raid an Italian factory and say you’ve found 29m secret jabs destined for Britain which turn out to be 29m jabs destined for the EU and poor countries? Check

    I’d love to believe the EU is just ‘grandstanding’. But recent history tells us they are completely capable of doing insane things, in reality. We shall see
    I'm not defending them, not in any way. I think their behaviour this winter has been exponentially bonkers. But the fact remains that there are enough grownups in the EU to stop an export ban happening. A fig leaf will be found, a fudge, that their more muscular elements can present as a victory (which will in reality make no difference).
    Trouble is that is almost exactly the word for word argument I was using before the first round of these threats. And yet they went ahead and tried to do this including trying to shut the Irish border before someone realised maybe they were being stupid. If there is no 'Irish border' issue this time what do you think will bring them up short?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,199
    Leon said:

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    And not just Canada; Norway, Australia, New Zealand and I am sure many others. All have had issues with supply just like the EU and the UK. It is inevitable given the extraordinary timetable involved in rolling out these vaccines.

    This is what is missing from so much of the analysis. It is not the case of the UK and the EU behaving differently and this being driven by Brexit as some like to claim. It is the EU - and particularly some of its major countries - behaving like a spoiled brat whilst the rest of the world behaves like adults. It is shocking for those of us who saw the EU as a malign but clever entity to find out it is neither malign, nor clever, simply very very childish.
    It’s not childishness. It’s more a religious mindset challenged by deeply problematic truths.

    Put it another way, some of the EU elite reaction to the vaccine issue reminds me of ecclesiastical reaction to Darwin’s theories in the 19th century. A mixture of injured pride, ineffectual pomposity, terrible argumentation and bewildered denialism. ‘This simply cannot be true.’
    Isn't Darwin cancelled these days....racist, colonialist, etc.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 23,433
    algarkirk said:

    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    I like the quote at the end of the header. There's a similar one from the Buddha -

    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."

    I like this one too but I'm not sure how true it is. Let's see what happens in Hartlepool.

    And, from Chaucer, but presumably a popular saying at the time, "The truth will out"
    'Truth will out' is Shakespeare

    'Murder will out' is Chaucer.

    On topic, if Labour wish to be an opposition who wish to be a government other than by accident we need to know, among other things:

    What would they put in place of Tory immigration/refugee proposals

    and

    What would they put in place in respect of the current consultation on judicial review etc.

    Why not follow the advice of their own inquiry and leave well alone?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 39,695
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    And not just Canada; Norway, Australia, New Zealand and I am sure many others. All have had issues with supply just like the EU and the UK. It is inevitable given the extraordinary timetable involved in rolling out these vaccines.

    This is what is missing from so much of the analysis. It is not the case of the UK and the EU behaving differently and this being driven by Brexit as some like to claim. It is the EU - and particularly some of its major countries - behaving like a spoiled brat whilst the rest of the world behaves like adults. It is shocking for those of us who saw the EU as a malign but clever entity to find out it is neither malign, nor clever, simply very very childish.
    It’s not childishness. It’s more a religious mindset challenged by deeply problematic truths.

    Put it another way, some of the EU elite reaction to the vaccine issue reminds me of ecclesiastical reaction to Darwin’s theories in the 19th century. A mixture of injured pride, ineffectual pomposity, terrible argumentation and bewildered denialism. ‘This simply cannot be true.’
    Superb analogy.
    He's definitely wasting his time knapping flints, should be a writer...
    Dunno. Maybe his flints are world-beating?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 39,695
    Grayling gives a sigh of relief, having handed over the baton this weekend.....
  • isamisam Posts: 35,492
    edited March 24
    These are the net approval ratings of Boris & Sir Keir since Sep 2020

    It goes Latest Boris/Latest Sir Keir/Earliest Boris/Earliest Sir Keir


  • LeonLeon Posts: 4,727

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    As far as I can see, the only country that fits all the criteria of the new export ban is the UK. This law is carefully designed to hit us, exclusively
    I suspect the law is designed to hit no one - it's just there to ensure the EU look to be doing something while pointing the blame away from the real culprits (who just happen to be the EU).
    Indeed. Some PBers need to calm down and understand the difference between grandstanding and reality.
    Wtf are you talking about. Time and again through the vaccine omnishambles the EU has proved itself capable of doing mad things FOR REAL

    Temporarily create a hard border in Ireland? Check
    Brief that a fine vaccine is only 8% effective? Check
    Tell everyone, as president of France, that the same vaccine is near-useless? Check
    Prevent legal purchased vaccine exports to Australia? Check
    Suspend use of a vaccine for days on entirely spurious grounds? Check
    Then publicly do a screeching u turn 4 days later? Check
    Raid an Italian factory and say you’ve found 29m secret jabs destined for Britain which turn out to be 29m jabs destined for the EU and poor countries? Check

    I’d love to believe the EU is just ‘grandstanding’. But recent history tells us they are completely capable of doing insane things, in reality. We shall see
    I'm not defending them, not in any way. I think their behaviour this winter has been exponentially bonkers. But the fact remains that there are enough grownups in the EU to stop an export ban happening. A fig leaf will be found, a fudge, that their more muscular elements can present as a victory (which will in reality make no difference).
    I hope you’re right
  • TimTTimT Posts: 3,291
    algarkirk said:

    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    I like the quote at the end of the header. There's a similar one from the Buddha -

    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."

    I like this one too but I'm not sure how true it is. Let's see what happens in Hartlepool.

    And, from Chaucer, but presumably a popular saying at the time, "The truth will out"
    'Truth will out' is Shakespeare

    'Murder will out' is Chaucer.

    On topic, if Labour wish to be an opposition who wish to be a government other than by accident we need to know, among other things:

    What would they put in place of Tory immigration/refugee proposals

    and

    What would they put in place in respect of the current consultation on judicial review etc.

    Yep. Already corrected myself
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,538

    And so back on topic.

    Love the thread header from Cyclefree and agree with everything she writes. Particularly like that superb quote from Chernobyl to finish.

    I am starting to become genuinely worried about this Government. I mean before I just didn't like Johnson and most of his cronies but that was because I saw them as foolish, self serving and incompetent. Now I see them as a malign (that word again) force that is slowly changing our laws in a way they would themselves be screaming blue murder about if it were being done by Labour. Banning protests, seeking to place the Government above the law, banning people from leaving the country. These are not the actions of a democratically minded open Government.

    I spent a lot of time in the early 2000s campaigning against the Civil Contingences Act and RIPA introduced by Labour. These actions by a Tory Government are just as bad, if not worse.

    I agree with a lot of this and the thread header - and is part of why I became a Pirate for a while - but my great difficulty is 'what do I do with this information' / 'how can I campaign for change'. Join one of the major parties and try to change them from the inside - but how much notice do they take of individual members? Join a minor party and try to change the conversation? (Been there, and it's a lot of effort for what doesn't appear to be much reward) - Sit on forums like this and complain - well fine, but what's the impact / how does that change things?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 8,020
    edited March 24

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    As far as I can see, the only country that fits all the criteria of the new export ban is the UK. This law is carefully designed to hit us, exclusively
    I suspect the law is designed to hit no one - it's just there to ensure the EU look to be doing something while pointing the blame away from the real culprits (who just happen to be the EU).
    Indeed. Some PBers need to calm down and understand the difference between grandstanding and reality.
    Wtf are you talking about. Time and again through the vaccine omnishambles the EU has proved itself capable of doing mad things FOR REAL

    Temporarily create a hard border in Ireland? Check
    Brief that a fine vaccine is only 8% effective? Check
    Tell everyone, as president of France, that the same vaccine is near-useless? Check
    Prevent legal purchased vaccine exports to Australia? Check
    Suspend use of a vaccine for days on entirely spurious grounds? Check
    Then publicly do a screeching u turn 4 days later? Check
    Raid an Italian factory and say you’ve found 29m secret jabs destined for Britain which turn out to be 29m jabs destined for the EU and poor countries? Check

    I’d love to believe the EU is just ‘grandstanding’. But recent history tells us they are completely capable of doing insane things, in reality. We shall see
    I'm not defending them, not in any way. I think their behaviour this winter has been exponentially bonkers. But the fact remains that there are enough grownups in the EU to stop an export ban happening. A fig leaf will be found, a fudge, that their more muscular elements can present as a victory (which will in reality make no difference).
    Trouble is that is almost exactly the word for word argument I was using before the first round of these threats. And yet they went ahead and tried to do this including trying to shut the Irish border before someone realised maybe they were being stupid. If there is no 'Irish border' issue this time what do you think will bring them up short?
    The realisation that they will jeopardise their own supply chain.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 3,291

    Leon said:

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    And not just Canada; Norway, Australia, New Zealand and I am sure many others. All have had issues with supply just like the EU and the UK. It is inevitable given the extraordinary timetable involved in rolling out these vaccines.

    This is what is missing from so much of the analysis. It is not the case of the UK and the EU behaving differently and this being driven by Brexit as some like to claim. It is the EU - and particularly some of its major countries - behaving like a spoiled brat whilst the rest of the world behaves like adults. It is shocking for those of us who saw the EU as a malign but clever entity to find out it is neither malign, nor clever, simply very very childish.
    It’s not childishness. It’s more a religious mindset challenged by deeply problematic truths.

    Put it another way, some of the EU elite reaction to the vaccine issue reminds me of ecclesiastical reaction to Darwin’s theories in the 19th century. A mixture of injured pride, ineffectual pomposity, terrible argumentation and bewildered denialism. ‘This simply cannot be true.’
    Isn't Darwin cancelled these days....racist, colonialist, etc.
    Evolution should be cancelled. It is speciesist
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 30,577
    edited March 24

    Leon said:

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    And not just Canada; Norway, Australia, New Zealand and I am sure many others. All have had issues with supply just like the EU and the UK. It is inevitable given the extraordinary timetable involved in rolling out these vaccines.

    This is what is missing from so much of the analysis. It is not the case of the UK and the EU behaving differently and this being driven by Brexit as some like to claim. It is the EU - and particularly some of its major countries - behaving like a spoiled brat whilst the rest of the world behaves like adults. It is shocking for those of us who saw the EU as a malign but clever entity to find out it is neither malign, nor clever, simply very very childish.
    It’s not childishness. It’s more a religious mindset challenged by deeply problematic truths.

    Put it another way, some of the EU elite reaction to the vaccine issue reminds me of ecclesiastical reaction to Darwin’s theories in the 19th century. A mixture of injured pride, ineffectual pomposity, terrible argumentation and bewildered denialism. ‘This simply cannot be true.’
    Isn't Darwin cancelled these days....racist, colonialist, etc.
    Martin Luther King is cancelled these days.

    Why on Earth should someone be treated according to the content of their character, rather than the colour of their skin?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 2,935
    Banning protests, seeking to place the Government above the law, banning people from leaving the country. These are not the actions of a democratically minded open Government.

    Limiting protest to protect the rights of individuals from nuisance isn't banning protest. Try Hong Kong or Burman for what that looks like.

    The government will still be obliged to abide by its own laws. At least until we have clear examples of this not being the case from the Court of Appeal/SC who will be quick to say so.

    Banning leaving is a temporary measure to do with death causing illness, and concerns the medical dangers of acting on your right to return.
  • pingping Posts: 297

    And so back on topic.

    Love the thread header from Cyclefree and agree with everything she writes. Particularly like that superb quote from Chernobyl to finish.

    I am starting to become genuinely worried about this Government. I mean before I just didn't like Johnson and most of his cronies but that was because I saw them as foolish, self serving and incompetent. Now I see them as a malign (that word again) force that is slowly changing our laws in a way they would themselves be screaming blue murder about if it were being done by Labour. Banning protests, seeking to place the Government above the law, banning people from leaving the country. These are not the actions of a democratically minded open Government.

    I spent a lot of time in the early 2000s campaigning against the Civil Contingences Act and RIPA introduced by Labour. These actions by a Tory Government are just as bad, if not worse.

    Great post.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 3,137

    Seems the difference in pollsters at the moment is how strong or weak Labour is

    YouGov three times and Survation twice have had the Labour share below 35% in February and March all the other polls have Labour 36+%.

    However, the Labour share is declining in the polls overall. The last Labour share above 40% was YouGov 41% 27th January. The last 39% was Redfield & Wilton on February 15th. The last 38% Labour share was Ipsos-MORI on March 12th (all dates final date of fieldwork).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,199
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Compare and contrast with EU stripping naked, putting their pants on their head, screaming into the void while setting fire to everything in site, like one of the twats that the kill the bill protests.....

    ------

    The Indian factory churning out AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine has reportedly asked the country's government for permission to 'immediately' ship millions of doses to the UK.

    Boris Johnson this week sent two officials on a mission to India to smooth tensions over the supply chain. Lord Lister and international trade adviser David Quarrey were asked to visit to the Serum Institute to negotiate letting the shipment through.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9397361/Coronavirus-Indian-AstraZeneca-vaccine-factory-urges-government-let-ship-UK.html

    Some weeks ago, due to Pfizer production difficulties, Canada received no vaccine for a week. None. Nada.

    Their response was polite concern, and a hope that things would improve.
    And not just Canada; Norway, Australia, New Zealand and I am sure many others. All have had issues with supply just like the EU and the UK. It is inevitable given the extraordinary timetable involved in rolling out these vaccines.

    This is what is missing from so much of the analysis. It is not the case of the UK and the EU behaving differently and this being driven by Brexit as some like to claim. It is the EU - and particularly some of its major countries - behaving like a spoiled brat whilst the rest of the world behaves like adults. It is shocking for those of us who saw the EU as a malign but clever entity to find out it is neither malign, nor clever, simply very very childish.
    It’s not childishness. It’s more a religious mindset challenged by deeply problematic truths.

    Put it another way, some of the EU elite reaction to the vaccine issue reminds me of ecclesiastical reaction to Darwin’s theories in the 19th century. A mixture of injured pride, ineffectual pomposity, terrible argumentation and bewildered denialism. ‘This simply cannot be true.’
    Isn't Darwin cancelled these days....racist, colonialist, etc.
    Martin Luther King is cancelled these days.

    Why on Earth should someone be treated according to the content of their character, rather than the colour of their skin?
    We had gardens....racist.....now building design....racist....

    https://order-order.com/2021/03/23/sadiq-khans-design-advocate-slams-georgian-architecture-as-colonialism/

    And only a few years ago, this guy thought he was being absurdist...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrK_HVGOnUo
  • ClippP said:

    The problem is that, although we are a law-abiding and fairly docile people, this is the case only as long as we believe that the powers-that-be are making decisions and doing things in accordance with the rules and established practice.

    The present gang of liars, cheats and scallywags could not care less about following the rule-book and established practice. It follows that nobody should pay any heed at all to what they decree - nor to any of the established intruments for imposing the decisions of the state. The law, the police, all authority figures have been corrupted by Johnson and his unprincipled gang.

    For my part, I do what I think is correct on the basis of ethics - something that was derided considerably by our own TSE recently, when one of his courses told him that lawyers ought to pay attention to ethical principles. The fact that the Conservatives have an 80 seat majority in the House of Commons - won by non-transparent means - is not sufficient to boss me around.

    I didn't deride ethics, I just said there are often much better reasons to do the right thing.

    I mean any scandal involving me would kill my mother, it would be a career ender for me and I like spending earning money, and I would not do well in prison, lockdown confirms the latter.

    I had to give a crash course in ethics to a bunch of bankers and traders, and from previous experience I knew talking about ethics really wasn't for them.

    So I began my talk and presentation with 'Over 100,000 inmates are raped and sexually assaulted annually in American prisons, this is important for you to know, because of our one side extradition treaty with America an American prison is where you are likely to end up in if you break the law and there's even a tenuous link to the States, for example see the Natwest three.'

    To say I had their attention from the start of that presentation was an understatement.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 26,402
    North Britain not yet Eurofoamic (h/t Kinbalu) shock

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1374756629342736385?s=20
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,199
    Floater said:
    Dishy Rishi missed a trick at the budget to introduce a special incentive programme for Big Pharma companies looking to relocate production here.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 14,112
    Figures are a little late today
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 13,261
    Floater said:
    I remember the days when companies would make sure their IP was not on-shore in India, since the Indian government(s) of the time had a certain attitude to IP.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,199

    Figures are a little late today

    So many daily tests, Excel COVID edition is taking longer to boot up?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,199
    Chameleon said:

    I'm not overly convinced by the whole 'don't worry about the madman in the corner loading his gun; shooting you would be irrational' argument.

    VdL & co have no exactly been acting reasonably this year, why expect them to change now?

    And VDL has form...when in a hole, keep digging.
  • isamisam Posts: 35,492
    edited March 24
    Satisfied Blue, Net Sat Orange


  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 3,317

    North Britain not yet Eurofoamic (h/t Kinbalu) shock

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1374756629342736385?s=20

    Is New Scotland a reference to Nova Scotia?

    I didn't know the Canadians were so keen on joining the EU.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 2,935
    is there anyone (Cyclefree??) who can give examples of how government/state/public body could break the law with impunity on account of the Judicial Review proposals?
  • Figures are a little late today

    So many daily tests, Excel COVID edition is taking longer to boot up?
    I did break Excel and the server this morning.

    I asked for a transactions report today, and instead of asking for a batched total report I accidentally asked it for every single transaction, which is 18 million transactions. Oops.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 16,321
    SKS fans please explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 43% (+1)
    LAB: 34% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (+1)
    LDEM: 5% (-2)
    REFUK: 3% (-)

    via
    @YouGov
    , 18 - 19 Mar
    Chgs. w/ 10 Mar
  • TimTTimT Posts: 3,291

    Figures are a little late today

    So many daily tests, Excel COVID edition is taking longer to boot up?
    I did break Excel and the server this morning.

    I asked for a transactions report today, and instead of asking for a batched total report I accidentally asked it for every single transaction, which is 18 million transactions. Oops.
    How long did the printer take?
  • eekeek Posts: 11,669

    Floater said:
    Dishy Rishi missed a trick at the budget to introduce a special incentive programme for Big Pharma companies looking to relocate production here.
    Couldn't be that subtle but you would have thought the super deduction would help regardless - after all the firms will either already have profits here or will be hoping to make some.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 21,925

    And so back on topic.

    Love the thread header from Cyclefree and agree with everything she writes. Particularly like that superb quote from Chernobyl to finish.

    I am starting to become genuinely worried about this Government. I mean before I just didn't like Johnson and most of his cronies but that was because I saw them as foolish, self serving and incompetent. Now I see them as a malign (that word again) force that is slowly changing our laws in a way they would themselves be screaming blue murder about if it were being done by Labour. Banning protests, seeking to place the Government above the law, banning people from leaving the country. These are not the actions of a democratically minded open Government.

    I spent a lot of time in the early 2000s campaigning against the Civil Contingences Act and RIPA introduced by Labour. These actions by a Tory Government are just as bad, if not worse.

    Many of the lower ranks of the Tories refer to 'being on the beaches on D-Day'. Or similar.

    One does wonder sometimes which way their guns would been pointing!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 13,012
    EU happily trashing their reputation

    https://twitter.com/joshglancy/status/1374743831116144645
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