Our EU friends have lost their minds. Either it's just inane, Boris-style bluster, in which case they are trashing their credibility for no purpose, or they are serious, in which case it's a massive exercise in self-harm. Either way it's all downside and no upside.
With friends like this....who needs enemies.
Let us be very clear - if they do this they are not friends any longer
We could unfriend them on Facebook.
That will show em
FFS what has happened to posters today.
They are responding emotionally to irrational actions, which is not itself irrational. I don't understand the pretence that people responding emotively is irrational even if one thinks the EU's actions are entirely reasonable either, this is an emotive issue and there is a major argument here with thousands of lives potentially at stake, of course people respond emotionally.
The EU leaders most certainly are, media here and posters on PB are, but, remarkably, the UK government is not. That's demonstrably the case given its reaction to AZ delays and muted responses to fiery EU rhetoric.
I think Boris may have been replaced by a replicant, it is most unlike him.
Our EU friends have lost their minds. Either it's just inane, Boris-style bluster, in which case they are trashing their credibility for no purpose, or they are serious, in which case it's a massive exercise in self-harm. Either way it's all downside and no upside.
We've all behaved like this at some point in our lives. But this is an organisation representing 450 million people, not an individual person.
So what they can't get in honest negotiation, they steal?
And the argument that AZN hasn't fulfilled its obligation to the EU is complete bollocks. They've also not met their obligation to the UK.
(Aside from bluest blues sense of humour that is always very good) I am starting to doubt PB as a reliable source of good nature and knowledge. I am starting to sense you don’t really want the EU’s political difficulties go away, least of all actually help them out of a political jam? Because there is nothing much being posted here that is going to help them.
The root cause of EU irrational behaviour is the pressure being put on both heads of state and commission, by media and public, due to performance on this issue by those heads of state and commission. The problem here on PB is you respond in terms of law, this is example of crap contract, this example of water tight contract, and this means IPR resides here, not there. And with science, where you can cancel a moonshot because it’s better to have no answer rather than go with a wrong answer. But in politics you can’t. It’s about saying you have answers and taking action. In politics you can’t even say “no, we made no plans for early election” when you plainly did.
So we come to the clear difference between many of you posting here and me. I would like to see the problems on the continent causing the pressure on the commission and heads of state go away, and I am beginning to doubt now if so many of you think like me. For lesson from the Bible influence comes from friendship, you help others to receive help yourselves. but rather like the front of tomorrow’s Metro and Daily Express, you don’t appreciate finding solution to their political difficulty and helping with it as in any way important to us here? Like, our end of the boat is dry and out the water, their end is taking in water and going down, but that’s not our problem. But we are sharing the same boat?
Oh, I think the EU could easily get itself into a much better position, with us and the world, by stopping the bullying, and instead going for the asking politely.
So, instead of commandeering the AZ vaccine due for Australia, offer to pay extra for it, and to send on a load and a half for free in two months time.
And instead of threatening the UK, sitting down with all the principles in the same room and asking "what is it we can all do to increase overall vaccine production?"
The EU fucked up. They could unfuck up. But instead they're running around like headless chickens throwing out threats left, right and centre.
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
All down to the decision to go with a first jab first policy in the UK. That's the biggest reason we psychologically feel we are so far ahead of the EU as well I would guess. It still seems remarkable that no other country has had the guts to go with a 12 week dosing gap.
I guess since we started out mass rollout in mid Jan they are still waiting on precise data about the impact on the Pfizer delayed approach? But it did seem one of those gambles that was worth the risks particularly given our own position in January, and with some other places surging again, if not quite that much, seems like more would have followed suit. I think some places have spaced them out, but not by as much?
I think some countries, France and Spain for example, are delaying vaccination longer than one month from previous infection.
The UK health minister Matt Hancock announced on Sunday that the country had vaccinated 873,784 people the day before. And with immoderate national pride, he added: “This gigantic team effort shows the best of Britain”. On this side of the English Channel, no minister could display either a number of that magnitude, nor a declaration of confidence in that tone. On the contrary, the pandemic remains alarming and people's resistance is wearing thin. At the most dramatic moment in its recent history, the European Union is failing its citizens. It had already failed in the debt crisis and failed again in the pandemic crisis.
If there is an idea capable of mobilizing Europeans around the Union, it is the guarantee that in a global world disputed by hegemonic blocs, the sharing of sovereignty is the best way to guarantee security, stability and protection. With Germany or France condemned to the status of middle powers vis-à-vis Russia, China or the United States, or even in the face of the emerging countries, the Union would serve not only to underpin collective influence and power on a global scale. When the United Kingdom moved towards “Brexit”, this idea was said and repeated until exhaustion: outside the EU, it was said, London would be a small satellite, condemned to gravitate towards the big blocs.
The vaccine disaster is dangerous because it has challenged the idea that the Union makes us stronger and safer. What started well with a centralized purchasing and distribution plan gave way to a resounding failure. In the previous purchase plan, Europe behaved like the little vine always waiting for discounts. In the dispute with AstraZeneca, Brussels seems to have the same influence and power as Azerbaijan. In international comparison, it is behind not only the United Kingdom or the United States, but countries like Chile, Serbia or Morocco.
With people's lives at stake and the guarantee of a place on the starting line for recovery, Europe has once again become the usual political dwarf. Ursula von der Leyen was visionary in the concept of the common vaccination, but it was a disaster in the way she performed it. With the battle increasingly lost, it threatens lawsuits, export blocks and a thousand and one expedients to save face. Too late: in the vaccination campaign, Europe is a giant with clay feet . Millions of Europeans look to the other side of the channel and ask: what have we gained from being here? This terrible wound will take years to heal.
If the recent events don’t push the Brexit yougov tracker into ‘right to leave’ territory it does make you wonder if half the country are irreversibly stubborn fools who’s only source of news is The Guardian and Twitter. Although in fairness now even the Guardian are leading with the EU vaccine blockade. The FBPE lot must be privately thinking about that classic Mitchell and Webb meme “Are we the baddies?”.
Surely in the end diplomacy will resolve this before lives get lost and things become more ridiculous. The thrashing around by Von der Leyen and co is rapidly diminishing the global status of Europe to somewhere between Myanmar and Venezuala.
Eh?
I don't think we were "right to leave" but I'm certainly not happy with how the EU are acting and I'm certainly not angling to rejoin any time soon.
There's a difference.
You don't have to turn everything into a Remain vs Leave thing ffs.
Well with the greatest of respect when you constantly see some of the biggest advocates for stopping Brexit - Adonis, Campbell etc back the EU’s approach at every turn and attempt to underplay our own vaccine success you can’t help but think there are plenty of Brits who would be happy to put British lives at risk in order to show solidarity with the EU over their muscle flexing.
This is the biggest issue of our time and in my opinion it takes real mental gymnastics for people to say we didn’t take the correct path because we’ve had issues with shellfish quotas or paperwork compared to this gargantuan life or death issue that the EU appear to creating purely out of spite (given they sit on millions of unused vaccines). The fact that some folk wedded to the concept of the European superstate appear to be dismissing their behaviour as merely ‘disappointing’ is quite an understatement of the reality of the situation.
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
All down to the decision to go with a first jab first policy in the UK. That's the biggest reason we psychologically feel we are so far ahead of the EU as well I would guess. It still seems remarkable that no other country has had the guts to go with a 12 week dosing gap.
This supports Max's thesis that this is just for show. Which is better news for Britain but truly terrible news for the EU, because it is a PR calamity on stilts. It will play well with some EU citizens for about 36 hours until they realise it is meaningless posturing, then it will all go south again
And it makes an amiable EU/UK relationship near-impossible
Yes, I'm not making any judgements on the non-vaccine downsides becuase there's too many to go into. Specific to vaccines and our own vaccine programme I don't think this makes any difference and I'm not sure by what mechanism the EU specifically will reject AZ requests to export vaccines produced by Halix. Under their own treaties that is a national competence and the Netherlands is one of the countries that is against export bans and has made clear like Belgium that they aren't going to sacrifice their own pharma industry to bail out the EU's failings. The EU will need to agree some kind of unanimous treaty amendment to hand this power to the EU. Again, I'm sceptical that this is going to happen at the virtual summit, Belgium, Sweden and the Netherlands have got far, far too much to lose.
The EU itself could earn the title of being the sick man of Europe if they go on like this.
I just think it's all a bit mental. The solution in January was "how much money and who wants it" to every single pharma company in the world to help increase AZ, Pfizer and Moderna supplies. There seemed to be some positive moves for Pfizer but the amount of money was tiny and delivery schedules far too long.
Yes.
If they'd done that they could have had massive supplies coming on sooner rather than later.
I wonder if the big CureVac* order is part of the problem, with a desire to have an EU solution to CV19.
* I hear CureVac is efficacious but with a lot of adverse reactions - it will be interesting if they can sell it to a vaccine sceptical public.
Since this whole vaccine mess started, the EU have given the impression of being more interested in ways to leverage an increase in vaccines over the following few weeks, rather than invest in a massive uplift and guarantee in vaccines coming on line in a month or so. Despite the latter being the realistically achievable solution and still with massive benefits. By constantly focussing on today, they are ensuring that tomorrow never comes.
Same with their PR. They have consistently gone for the immediate headline rather than thinking at least 48 hours ahead.
eg Imposing a new hard frontier in Ireland probably *sounded* great in Brussels over a glass of dark monkish ale - tough, firm, rigorous - but if they'd talked to someone sane and mapped it out over the next day or two, they'd have realised it was barmy, if not dangerous.
They need to clear our the entire Commission, all of them. They have competent people, Barnier for instance. But the obsession with elevating mediocrities that can't menace the national leaders is killing them.
OK, night night, PB, night night
Oh, the Parliament should eject UvdL. It would be a proper sensible revolt. And, of course, UvdL deserves it.
Our EU friends have lost their minds. Either it's just inane, Boris-style bluster, in which case they are trashing their credibility for no purpose, or they are serious, in which case it's a massive exercise in self-harm. Either way it's all downside and no upside.
With friends like this....who needs enemies.
Let us be very clear - if they do this they are not friends any longer
We could unfriend them on Facebook.
That will show em
FFS what has happened to posters today.
They are responding emotionally to irrational actions, which is not itself irrational. I don't understand the pretence that people responding emotively is irrational even if one thinks the EU's actions are entirely reasonable either, this is an emotive issue and there is a major argument here with thousands of lives potentially at stake, of course people respond emotionally.
The EU leaders most certainly are, media here and posters on PB are, but, remarkably, the UK government is not. That's demonstrably the case given its reaction to AZ delays and muted responses to fiery EU rhetoric.
I think Boris may have been replaced by a replicant, it is most unlike him.
Indeed. The idea that politics, and life itself, is somehow worse for relying on emotion rather than pure logic is somewhat questionable in itself.
The UK health minister Matt Hancock announced on Sunday that the country had vaccinated 873,784 people the day before. And with immoderate national pride, he added: “This gigantic team effort shows the best of Britain”. On this side of the English Channel, no minister could display either a number of that magnitude, nor a declaration of confidence in that tone. On the contrary, the pandemic remains alarming and people's resistance is wearing thin. At the most dramatic moment in its recent history, the European Union is failing its citizens. It had already failed in the debt crisis and failed again in the pandemic crisis.
If there is an idea capable of mobilizing Europeans around the Union, it is the guarantee that in a global world disputed by hegemonic blocs, the sharing of sovereignty is the best way to guarantee security, stability and protection. With Germany or France condemned to the status of middle powers vis-à-vis Russia, China or the United States, or even in the face of the emerging countries, the Union would serve not only to underpin collective influence and power on a global scale. When the United Kingdom moved towards “Brexit”, this idea was said and repeated until exhaustion: outside the EU, it was said, London would be a small satellite, condemned to gravitate towards the big blocs.
The vaccine disaster is dangerous because it has challenged the idea that the Union makes us stronger and safer. What started well with a centralized purchasing and distribution plan gave way to a resounding failure. In the previous purchase plan, Europe behaved like the little vine always waiting for discounts. In the dispute with AstraZeneca, Brussels seems to have the same influence and power as Azerbaijan. In international comparison, it is behind not only the United Kingdom or the United States, but countries like Chile, Serbia or Morocco.
With people's lives at stake and the guarantee of a place on the starting line for recovery, Europe has once again become the usual political dwarf. Ursula von der Leyen was visionary in the concept of the common vaccination, but it was a disaster in the way she performed it. With the battle increasingly lost, it threatens lawsuits, export blocks and a thousand and one expedients to save face. Too late: in the vaccination campaign, Europe is a giant with clay feet . Millions of Europeans look to the other side of the channel and ask: what have we gained from being here? This terrible wound will take years to heal.
I'm glad to see they refer to it as the English Channel and not the equivalent of La Manche.
Our EU friends have lost their minds. Either it's just inane, Boris-style bluster, in which case they are trashing their credibility for no purpose, or they are serious, in which case it's a massive exercise in self-harm. Either way it's all downside and no upside.
With friends like this....who needs enemies.
Let us be very clear - if they do this they are not friends any longer
We could unfriend them on Facebook.
That will show em
FFS what has happened to posters today.
They are responding emotionally to irrational actions, which is not itself irrational. I don't understand the pretence that people responding emotively is irrational even if one thinks the EU's actions are entirely reasonable either, this is an emotive issue and there is a major argument here with thousands of lives potentially at stake, of course people respond emotionally.
The EU leaders most certainly are, media here and posters on PB are, but, remarkably, the UK government is not. That's demonstrably the case given its reaction to AZ delays and muted responses to fiery EU rhetoric.
I think Boris may have been replaced by a replicant, it is most unlike him.
Our EU friends have lost their minds. Either it's just inane, Boris-style bluster, in which case they are trashing their credibility for no purpose, or they are serious, in which case it's a massive exercise in self-harm. Either way it's all downside and no upside.
With friends like this....who needs enemies.
Let us be very clear - if they do this they are not friends any longer
We could unfriend them on Facebook.
That will show em
FFS what has happened to posters today.
They are responding emotionally to irrational actions, which is not itself irrational. I don't understand the pretence that people responding emotively is irrational even if one thinks the EU's actions are entirely reasonable either, this is an emotive issue and there is a major argument here with thousands of lives potentially at stake, of course people respond emotionally.
The EU leaders most certainly are, media here and posters on PB are, but, remarkably, the UK government is not. That's demonstrably the case given its reaction to AZ delays and muted responses to fiery EU rhetoric.
I think Boris may have been replaced by a replicant, it is most unlike him.
Indeed. The idea that politics, and life itself, is somehow worse for relying on emotion rather than pure logic is somewhat questionable in itself.
I like to take emotion out of things as much as possible myself, hence my avatar, but we're not automatons and refuse to utilise some emotion in, well, emotional times, and odds are pretty good it will cause a problem as a result of denial. A preposterous insistence that decisions are taken objectively and logically at all times will just prevent understanding of where we, and the EU, cocked up.
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Is that total population or adult population ?
Adult population. They've basically stalled at 53-54% due to large number of religious refuseniks.
That would suggest that they'll struggle to reach herd immunity without various beardies getting it on mass.
Also makes me wonder what the secular Israelis think of the 'do not work, do not fight, do not accept vaccination' types who prefer life in the bronze age.
Boris must have gotten wind of it, hence the talk in the last few months of bridges and tunnels again, so when it is used people can ask if they want to build literal bridges.
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Is that total population or adult population ?
Adult population. They've basically stalled at 53-54% due to large number of religious refuseniks.
That would suggest that they'll struggle to reach herd immunity without various beardies getting it on mass.
Also makes me wonder what the secular Israelis think of the 'do not work, do not fight, do not accept vaccination' types who prefer life in the bronze age.
Ultra-Orthodox anything seems to be code for utterly selfish. May not be the case in Israel, I know too little of religion, but I'd put good money that most 'ultra-othordox' 'return to tradition' style movements in the world are in part modern reinventions like neo-druidism.
I've been thinking about the post pandemic preparedness for future emergencies. We need to keep our capability for mass testing and rapid vaccine creation/rollout in the event of another pandemic, especially a more lethal one that could come from a bird flu crossover.
It's very expensive to maintain a capacity when not required, but what if you could re-purpose it instead of mothballing it?
RCS1000 did a post some time ago explaining how the Pfizer mRna research had been looking at the technology to train the immune system to kill tumours. Would it be possible to use the sequencing capacity developed for Covid to rapidly sequence tumour and normal tissue samples and identify tumour markers, and then use our increased vaccine production capacity to rapidly create a single patient vaccine to target that tumour?
Of course we might need to encourage Pfizer to increase their manufacturing capacity in the UK, but in the current climate they might want to do that anyway.
This could offer the government a huge win to launch an anti-cancer programme on the back of this disaster. I bet Dom would have thought of this.
The UK health minister Matt Hancock announced on Sunday that the country had vaccinated 873,784 people the day before. And with immoderate national pride, he added: “This gigantic team effort shows the best of Britain”. On this side of the English Channel, no minister could display either a number of that magnitude, nor a declaration of confidence in that tone. On the contrary, the pandemic remains alarming and people's resistance is wearing thin. At the most dramatic moment in its recent history, the European Union is failing its citizens. It had already failed in the debt crisis and failed again in the pandemic crisis.
If there is an idea capable of mobilizing Europeans around the Union, it is the guarantee that in a global world disputed by hegemonic blocs, the sharing of sovereignty is the best way to guarantee security, stability and protection. With Germany or France condemned to the status of middle powers vis-à-vis Russia, China or the United States, or even in the face of the emerging countries, the Union would serve not only to underpin collective influence and power on a global scale. When the United Kingdom moved towards “Brexit”, this idea was said and repeated until exhaustion: outside the EU, it was said, London would be a small satellite, condemned to gravitate towards the big blocs.
The vaccine disaster is dangerous because it has challenged the idea that the Union makes us stronger and safer. What started well with a centralized purchasing and distribution plan gave way to a resounding failure. In the previous purchase plan, Europe behaved like the little vine always waiting for discounts. In the dispute with AstraZeneca, Brussels seems to have the same influence and power as Azerbaijan. In international comparison, it is behind not only the United Kingdom or the United States, but countries like Chile, Serbia or Morocco.
With people's lives at stake and the guarantee of a place on the starting line for recovery, Europe has once again become the usual political dwarf. Ursula von der Leyen was visionary in the concept of the common vaccination, but it was a disaster in the way she performed it. With the battle increasingly lost, it threatens lawsuits, export blocks and a thousand and one expedients to save face. Too late: in the vaccination campaign, Europe is a giant with clay feet . Millions of Europeans look to the other side of the channel and ask: what have we gained from being here? This terrible wound will take years to heal.
I'm glad to see they refer to it as the English Channel and not the equivalent of La Manche.
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Is that total population or adult population ?
Adult population. They've basically stalled at 53-54% due to large number of religious refuseniks.
That would suggest that they'll struggle to reach herd immunity without various beardies getting it on mass.
Also makes me wonder what the secular Israelis think of the 'do not work, do not fight, do not accept vaccination' types who prefer life in the bronze age.
Ultra-Orthodox anything seems to be code for utterly selfish. May not be the case in Israel, I know too little of religion, but I'd put good money that most 'ultra-othordox' 'return to tradition' style movements in the world are in part modern reinventions like neo-druidism.
This may be, but the proportion of even fairly observant Orthodox Jews in Israel is nowhere near 46% (never mind the fairly tiny proportion of actual "Ultra-Orthodox" (however that is defined)), so there must be other factors in play there.
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Surpassing Israel is all very nice but surely not incredible given we are by far larger. Israel is about the size of Scotland and Wales combined...
DELETED rest of comment. We are already far ahead in terms of numbers: about three times the population of Israel so clearly I've misunderstood what you meant.
The reality is that there will probably be hundreds of people in the UK with the SA variant. And so - yes - it is the biggest risk to the UK right now. Simply, AZ is much less effective (although I suspect far from ineffective) against the SA strain.
*But* Novavax, Pfizer and Moderna are pretty effective, and we are getting increasing quantities of each coming. I suspect most of us will be getting a third shot in the Autumn.
The reality is that there will probably be hundreds of people in the UK with the SA variant. And so - yes - it is the biggest risk to the UK right now. Simply, AZ is much less effective (although I suspect far from ineffective) against the SA strain.
*But* Novavax, Pfizer and Moderna are pretty effective, and we are getting increasing quantities of each coming. I suspect most of us will be getting a third shot in the Autumn.
Still need to close the border with France. If no one is traveling no one is traveling. Make a virtue of necessity. Do not repeat the errors of last year
The reality is that there will probably be hundreds of people in the UK with the SA variant. And so - yes - it is the biggest risk to the UK right now. Simply, AZ is much less effective (although I suspect far from ineffective) against the SA strain.
*But* Novavax, Pfizer and Moderna are pretty effective, and we are getting increasing quantities of each coming. I suspect most of us will be getting a third shot in the Autumn.
Also, I fear you’re wrong about Pfizer, Moderna and the Safferbug
Adding totally useless nukes, taking away actually useful soldiers, is indefensible, should be overturned, and should be used as a stick to beat Johnson and anyone who defends to that decision with.
Can nukes help with our vaccine rollout? Thought not.
Nukes can help bash Labour while the Conservatives get on with the serious business of decimating the armed forces, as they have done for decades. Oh, and keep an eye on whether those extra nukes actually arrive, or are just for "announcing".
Adding totally useless nukes, taking away actually useful soldiers, is indefensible, should be overturned, and should be used as a stick to beat Johnson and anyone who defends to that decision with.
Can nukes help with our vaccine rollout? Thought not.
Nukes can help bash Labour while the Conservatives get on with the serious business of decimating the armed forces, as they have done for decades. Oh, and keep an eye on whether those extra nukes actually arrive, or are just for "announcing".
I hope the Government is moving heaven and earth to come up with viable contingency plans. A 2 month delay to our vaccine roll out cannot happen.
As I said on the previous thread, I imagine there are loads of calls being made to Washington right now about it to ensure continuous supply for the UK from there by Pfizer while the UK helps Pfizer US ramp up its manufacturing capacity with the Croda lipid nanoparticles being redirected to Pfizer US.
That would be nuclear if it ever did end up happening. Indeed if I were Pfizer, and I could secure guarantees that bar 5-10% off the top the US would let Pfizer do as they wanted with the increase in doses manufactured, I'd be looking at moving production over to the US now. You don't wait for the unstable lunatic with the gun to turn it on you (instead of AZ) before planning to leg it.
"People may need to wear face coverings and socially distance for several years until we return to normality, a leading epidemiologist has predicted.
Mary Ramsay, the head of immunisation at Public Health England, said basic measures could be in place until other countries successfully roll out jabs."
The UK health minister Matt Hancock announced on Sunday that the country had vaccinated 873,784 people the day before. And with immoderate national pride, he added: “This gigantic team effort shows the best of Britain”. On this side of the English Channel, no minister could display either a number of that magnitude, nor a declaration of confidence in that tone. On the contrary, the pandemic remains alarming and people's resistance is wearing thin. At the most dramatic moment in its recent history, the European Union is failing its citizens. It had already failed in the debt crisis and failed again in the pandemic crisis.
If there is an idea capable of mobilizing Europeans around the Union, it is the guarantee that in a global world disputed by hegemonic blocs, the sharing of sovereignty is the best way to guarantee security, stability and protection. With Germany or France condemned to the status of middle powers vis-à-vis Russia, China or the United States, or even in the face of the emerging countries, the Union would serve not only to underpin collective influence and power on a global scale. When the United Kingdom moved towards “Brexit”, this idea was said and repeated until exhaustion: outside the EU, it was said, London would be a small satellite, condemned to gravitate towards the big blocs.
The vaccine disaster is dangerous because it has challenged the idea that the Union makes us stronger and safer. What started well with a centralized purchasing and distribution plan gave way to a resounding failure. In the previous purchase plan, Europe behaved like the little vine always waiting for discounts. In the dispute with AstraZeneca, Brussels seems to have the same influence and power as Azerbaijan. In international comparison, it is behind not only the United Kingdom or the United States, but countries like Chile, Serbia or Morocco.
With people's lives at stake and the guarantee of a place on the starting line for recovery, Europe has once again become the usual political dwarf. Ursula von der Leyen was visionary in the concept of the common vaccination, but it was a disaster in the way she performed it. With the battle increasingly lost, it threatens lawsuits, export blocks and a thousand and one expedients to save face. Too late: in the vaccination campaign, Europe is a giant with clay feet . Millions of Europeans look to the other side of the channel and ask: what have we gained from being here? This terrible wound will take years to heal.
I'm glad to see they refer to it as the English Channel and not the equivalent of La Manche.
Don't know if this has hit the UK yet - separate teams in Norway and Germany have identified the same possible route whereby the AZN jab is creating the blood clots - overly strong immune reactions affecting platelets. The good news - if correct, and identified early, it is easily treated:
Don't know if this has hit the UK yet - separate teams in Norway and Germany have identified the same possible route whereby the AZN jab is creating the blood clots - overly strong immune reactions affecting platelets. The good news - if correct, and identified early, it is easily treated:
Don't know if this has hit the UK yet - separate teams in Norway and Germany have identified the same possible route whereby the AZN jab is creating the blood clots - overly strong immune reactions affecting platelets. The good news - if correct, and identified early, it is easily treated:
Strange because a number of authorities have said the AZ vaccine doesn't cause blood clots.
AZ (and Pfizer) seem to be correlated with a very small increase in the likelihood getting blood clots, and (in the case of AZ) ones in the brain. This seems to be particularly pronounced for women aged 20 to 40, so it may well be an issue with interaction with the contraceptive pill.
The reality is that there will probably be hundreds of people in the UK with the SA variant. And so - yes - it is the biggest risk to the UK right now. Simply, AZ is much less effective (although I suspect far from ineffective) against the SA strain.
*But* Novavax, Pfizer and Moderna are pretty effective, and we are getting increasing quantities of each coming. I suspect most of us will be getting a third shot in the Autumn.
Also, I fear you’re wrong about Pfizer, Moderna and the Safferbug
I'm not wrong, 10x sounds much worse than it is, because Moderna/Pfizer are massively "over engineered". It still almost certainly equates to a greater than 80% reduction in the likelihood of serious illness,
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Surpassing Israel is all very nice but surely not incredible given we are by far larger. Israel is about the size of Scotland and Wales combined...
DELETED rest of comment. We are already far ahead in terms of numbers: about three times the population of Israel so clearly I've misunderstood what you meant.
55% of Israeli adults have had at least one dose, and the vaccine is available to all.
However, the number of new first vaccinations every day is barely increasing.
The UK is at 51-52% now, and that number is rising at 0.5-0.6% per day. So, this week or next, the UK will have gotten a greater proportion of the population than Israel with at least some protection.
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Surpassing Israel is all very nice but surely not incredible given we are by far larger. Israel is about the size of Scotland and Wales combined...
DELETED rest of comment. We are already far ahead in terms of numbers: about three times the population of Israel so clearly I've misunderstood what you meant.
55% of Israeli adults have had at least one dose, and the vaccine is available to all.
However, the number of new first vaccinations every day is barely increasing.
The UK is at 51-52% now, and that number is rising at 0.5-0.6% per day. So, this week or next, the UK will have gotten a greater proportion of the population than Israel with at least some protection.
Have the last two reported days not each been over 1% of adults? Or is that the total, not new doses?
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Surpassing Israel is all very nice but surely not incredible given we are by far larger. Israel is about the size of Scotland and Wales combined...
DELETED rest of comment. We are already far ahead in terms of numbers: about three times the population of Israel so clearly I've misunderstood what you meant.
55% of Israeli adults have had at least one dose, and the vaccine is available to all.
However, the number of new first vaccinations every day is barely increasing.
The UK is at 51-52% now, and that number is rising at 0.5-0.6% per day. So, this week or next, the UK will have gotten a greater proportion of the population than Israel with at least some protection.
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Surpassing Israel is all very nice but surely not incredible given we are by far larger. Israel is about the size of Scotland and Wales combined...
DELETED rest of comment. We are already far ahead in terms of numbers: about three times the population of Israel so clearly I've misunderstood what you meant.
55% of Israeli adults have had at least one dose, and the vaccine is available to all.
However, the number of new first vaccinations every day is barely increasing.
The UK is at 51-52% now, and that number is rising at 0.5-0.6% per day. So, this week or next, the UK will have gotten a greater proportion of the population than Israel with at least some protection.
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Surpassing Israel is all very nice but surely not incredible given we are by far larger. Israel is about the size of Scotland and Wales combined...
DELETED rest of comment. We are already far ahead in terms of numbers: about three times the population of Israel so clearly I've misunderstood what you meant.
55% of Israeli adults have had at least one dose, and the vaccine is available to all.
However, the number of new first vaccinations every day is barely increasing.
The UK is at 51-52% now, and that number is rising at 0.5-0.6% per day. So, this week or next, the UK will have gotten a greater proportion of the population than Israel with at least some protection.
Have the last two reported days not each been over 1% of adults? Or is that the total, not new doses?
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Surpassing Israel is all very nice but surely not incredible given we are by far larger. Israel is about the size of Scotland and Wales combined...
DELETED rest of comment. We are already far ahead in terms of numbers: about three times the population of Israel so clearly I've misunderstood what you meant.
55% of Israeli adults have had at least one dose, and the vaccine is available to all.
However, the number of new first vaccinations every day is barely increasing.
The UK is at 51-52% now, and that number is rising at 0.5-0.6% per day. So, this week or next, the UK will have gotten a greater proportion of the population than Israel with at least some protection.
Have the last two reported days not each been over 1% of adults? Or is that the total, not new doses?
That's total doses
Does this mean Israel will be 'finished' soon, having hit the ceiling of people who want to be vaccinated?
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Surpassing Israel is all very nice but surely not incredible given we are by far larger. Israel is about the size of Scotland and Wales combined...
DELETED rest of comment. We are already far ahead in terms of numbers: about three times the population of Israel so clearly I've misunderstood what you meant.
55% of Israeli adults have had at least one dose, and the vaccine is available to all.
However, the number of new first vaccinations every day is barely increasing.
The UK is at 51-52% now, and that number is rising at 0.5-0.6% per day. So, this week or next, the UK will have gotten a greater proportion of the population than Israel with at least some protection.
Have the last two reported days not each been over 1% of adults? Or is that the total, not new doses?
That's total doses
Does this mean Israel will be 'finished' soon, having hit the ceiling of people who want to be vaccinated?
I guess the interesting question is whether they will be forced to use "compulsion", or whether it turns out that 55% of the population is enough to prevent CV19 from flaring up again.
They've ended their lockdown, and they've largely lifted travel restrictions now (although you do need to follow the Hawaii principle and get a negative PCR test no more than 72 hours prior to departure).
So I guess we'll find out fairly soon.
I'm pretty optimistic, although I wish they were at 75% vaccinated, rather than 55%.
This is in the strategy. A revised version of one of the vaccines can be produced to counter the variants of the virus, and this could be ready in the autumn of this year. However, there is the question of in which countries the manufacturing facilities would be located.
So what they can't get in honest negotiation, they steal?
And the argument that AZN hasn't fulfilled its obligation to the EU is complete bollocks. They've also not met their obligation to the UK.
(Aside from bluest blues sense of humour that is always very good) I am starting to doubt PB as a reliable source of good nature and knowledge. I am starting to sense you don’t really want the EU’s political difficulties go away, least of all actually help them out of a political jam? Because there is nothing much being posted here that is going to help them.
The root cause of EU irrational behaviour is the pressure being put on both heads of state and commission, by media and public, due to performance on this issue by those heads of state and commission. The problem here on PB is you respond in terms of law, this is example of crap contract, this example of water tight contract, and this means IPR resides here, not there. And with science, where you can cancel a moonshot because it’s better to have no answer rather than go with a wrong answer. But in politics you can’t. It’s about saying you have answers and taking action. In politics you can’t even say “no, we made no plans for early election” when you plainly did.
So we come to the clear difference between many of you posting here and me. I would like to see the problems on the continent causing the pressure on the commission and heads of state go away, and I am beginning to doubt now if so many of you think like me. For lesson from the Bible influence comes from friendship, you help others to receive help yourselves. but rather like the front of tomorrow’s Metro and Daily Express, you don’t appreciate finding solution to their political difficulty and helping with it as in any way important to us here? Like, our end of the boat is dry and out the water, their end is taking in water and going down, but that’s not our problem. But we are sharing the same boat?
I sympathise with the sentiment, but the relative sizes of our populations mean that even if we were to sacrifice our vaccine supplies dramatically, it would not solve their problem in terms of getting people vaccinated. (It would also, of course, be politically impossible.) In terms of the politics, it’s equally difficult to see how we help out, given their unilateral and confrontational approach (which also appears to be based on a misleading account of the situation).
In all fairness, our government has so far resisted the temptation to escalate the rhetoric, and I don’t see what it is beyond that you are expecting them to do ?
Vaccine production will, in time, get to a point where the argument is finally moot. In the meantime, what the EU appear to be asking us for us deliberately to slow out vaccine program to their rate so as not to embarrass them. That is simply not going to happen.
Interesting. There was another report, which I didn’t get around to posting, about some of the variants being able to infect lab mice - which the original virus couldn’t.
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Surpassing Israel is all very nice but surely not incredible given we are by far larger. Israel is about the size of Scotland and Wales combined...
DELETED rest of comment. We are already far ahead in terms of numbers: about three times the population of Israel so clearly I've misunderstood what you meant.
55% of Israeli adults have had at least one dose, and the vaccine is available to all.
However, the number of new first vaccinations every day is barely increasing.
The UK is at 51-52% now, and that number is rising at 0.5-0.6% per day. So, this week or next, the UK will have gotten a greater proportion of the population than Israel with at least some protection.
Have the last two reported days not each been over 1% of adults? Or is that the total, not new doses?
That's total doses
Does this mean Israel will be 'finished' soon, having hit the ceiling of people who want to be vaccinated?
I guess the interesting question is whether they will be forced to use "compulsion", or whether it turns out that 55% of the population is enough to prevent CV19 from flaring up again.
They've ended their lockdown, and they've largely lifted travel restrictions now (although you do need to follow the Hawaii principle and get a negative PCR test no more than 72 hours prior to departure).
So I guess we'll find out fairly soon.
I'm pretty optimistic, although I wish they were at 75% vaccinated, rather than 55%.
The unvaccinated 45% is sure to be clustered. So you're not getting the immunity that a true 55% would give. It seems likely the virus will be back for another round.
Sixty-one percent of French adults surveyed said the vaccine was unsafe, a rise of 18 percentage points compared to February, YouGov said.
Just over half of German adults surveyed said they thought the vaccine was unsafe, a rise of 15 percentage points compared to February, while 43% of Italians had serious doubts, an increase of almost a third.
Well done mini-Trump...time to build a wall around France.
Sixty-one percent of French adults surveyed said the vaccine was unsafe, a rise of 18 percentage points compared to February, YouGov said.
Just over half of German adults surveyed said they thought the vaccine was unsafe, a rise of 15 percentage points compared to February, while 43% of Italians had serious doubts, an increase of almost a third.
Well done mini-Trump...time to build a wall around France.
Mercifully
The survey showed that only in Britain, where the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine has been used in a national rollout since January, have the blood clot concerns had little to no impact on public confidence. The majority of people polled in the UK - 77% - still say the shot is safe. Their trust in it is on a par with Pfizer's 79% perceived safety rating.
I have to say, while I don't have any particular objection to Farage earning money this way I do find it weird that anyone would pay for it. Not just because it is him. I wouldn't pay £75 (or £5 for that matter) for a personalised video message from literally any political figure. They aren't cool or funny, that's just not the sort of person they are.
Indeed. It works for actors, comedians, musicians etc, but who really wants a birthday greeting from their favourite politician?
That said, Farage and Corbyn uniquely could probably make quite the living from it, do a few dozen per day if the demand was there.
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Surpassing Israel is all very nice but surely not incredible given we are by far larger. Israel is about the size of Scotland and Wales combined...
DELETED rest of comment. We are already far ahead in terms of numbers: about three times the population of Israel so clearly I've misunderstood what you meant.
55% of Israeli adults have had at least one dose, and the vaccine is available to all.
However, the number of new first vaccinations every day is barely increasing.
The UK is at 51-52% now, and that number is rising at 0.5-0.6% per day. So, this week or next, the UK will have gotten a greater proportion of the population than Israel with at least some protection.
It's incredible to think that the UK will soon pass Israel (perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday) for number of people having had at least one dose.
Surpassing Israel is all very nice but surely not incredible given we are by far larger. Israel is about the size of Scotland and Wales combined...
DELETED rest of comment. We are already far ahead in terms of numbers: about three times the population of Israel so clearly I've misunderstood what you meant.
55% of Israeli adults have had at least one dose, and the vaccine is available to all.
However, the number of new first vaccinations every day is barely increasing.
The UK is at 51-52% now, and that number is rising at 0.5-0.6% per day. So, this week or next, the UK will have gotten a greater proportion of the population than Israel with at least some protection.
The one dose approach gives us an advantage, but it’s a time-limited one-off advantage; once you encounter the wave of second doses, it disappears. Since vaccination started in mid-December, the 12-week second dose requirement is catching up with us now.
If this is correct it is an outrageous betrayal of our armed forces and our national security to cut them yet further in an unstable world and I know most of my fellow Tory members will be appalled too
I would rather have an optimised defence given the funds available. Sadly, in today’s world, the PBI only have limited utility
Comments
The EU leaders most certainly are, media here and posters on PB are, but, remarkably, the UK government is not. That's demonstrably the case given its reaction to AZ delays and muted responses to fiery EU rhetoric.
I think Boris may have been replaced by a replicant, it is most unlike him.
So, instead of commandeering the AZ vaccine due for Australia, offer to pay extra for it, and to send on a load and a half for free in two months time.
And instead of threatening the UK, sitting down with all the principles in the same room and asking "what is it we can all do to increase overall vaccine production?"
The EU fucked up. They could unfuck up. But instead they're running around like headless chickens throwing out threats left, right and centre.
Comrade.
H/T No Offence Alan
That seems a sensible change.
https://www.publico.pt/2021/03/21/mundo/editorial/uniao-europeia-potencia-global-1955338
The UK health minister Matt Hancock announced on Sunday that the country had vaccinated 873,784 people the day before. And with immoderate national pride, he added: “This gigantic team effort shows the best of Britain”. On this side of the English Channel, no minister could display either a number of that magnitude, nor a declaration of confidence in that tone. On the contrary, the pandemic remains alarming and people's resistance is wearing thin. At the most dramatic moment in its recent history, the European Union is failing its citizens. It had already failed in the debt crisis and failed again in the pandemic crisis.
If there is an idea capable of mobilizing Europeans around the Union, it is the guarantee that in a global world disputed by hegemonic blocs, the sharing of sovereignty is the best way to guarantee security, stability and protection. With Germany or France condemned to the status of middle powers vis-à-vis Russia, China or the United States, or even in the face of the emerging countries, the Union would serve not only to underpin collective influence and power on a global scale. When the United Kingdom moved towards “Brexit”, this idea was said and repeated until exhaustion: outside the EU, it was said, London would be a small satellite, condemned to gravitate towards the big blocs.
The vaccine disaster is dangerous because it has challenged the idea that the Union makes us stronger and safer. What started well with a centralized purchasing and distribution plan gave way to a resounding failure. In the previous purchase plan, Europe behaved like the little vine always waiting for discounts. In the dispute with AstraZeneca, Brussels seems to have the same influence and power as Azerbaijan. In international comparison, it is behind not only the United Kingdom or the United States, but countries like Chile, Serbia or Morocco.
With people's lives at stake and the guarantee of a place on the starting line for recovery, Europe has once again become the usual political dwarf. Ursula von der Leyen was visionary in the concept of the common vaccination, but it was a disaster in the way she performed it. With the battle increasingly lost, it threatens lawsuits, export blocks and a thousand and one expedients to save face. Too late: in the vaccination campaign, Europe is a giant with clay feet . Millions of Europeans look to the other side of the channel and ask: what have we gained from being here? This terrible wound will take years to heal.
This is the biggest issue of our time and in my opinion it takes real mental gymnastics for people to say we didn’t take the correct path because we’ve had issues with shellfish quotas or paperwork compared to this gargantuan life or death issue that the EU appear to creating purely out of spite (given they sit on millions of unused vaccines). The fact that some folk wedded to the concept of the European superstate appear to be dismissing their behaviour as merely ‘disappointing’ is quite an understatement of the reality of the situation.
Crucial point is that the UK are no longer the audience, and it is about short term politics.
https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/1373258433391169539
https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/1373266160314167297
https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/1373260069857603589
https://twitter.com/SBuschova/status/1373259696690302979
https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/1373259824339820545
He is sort of Agent Boris in a Blair sort of way
Also makes me wonder what the secular Israelis think of the 'do not work, do not fight, do not accept vaccination' types who prefer life in the bronze age.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPB2g1y2VFk
I've been thinking about the post pandemic preparedness for future emergencies. We need to keep our capability for mass testing and rapid vaccine creation/rollout in the event of another pandemic, especially a more lethal one that could come from a bird flu crossover.
It's very expensive to maintain a capacity when not required, but what if you could re-purpose it instead of mothballing it?
RCS1000 did a post some time ago explaining how the Pfizer mRna research had been looking at the technology to train the immune system to kill tumours. Would it be possible to use the sequencing capacity developed for Covid to rapidly sequence tumour and normal tissue samples and identify tumour markers, and then use our increased vaccine production capacity to rapidly create a single patient vaccine to target that tumour?
Of course we might need to encourage Pfizer to increase their manufacturing capacity in the UK, but in the current climate they might want to do that anyway.
This could offer the government a huge win to launch an anti-cancer programme on the back of this disaster. I bet Dom would have thought of this.
Now. About that vaccine business.
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1373778859775164416
DELETED rest of comment. We are already far ahead in terms of numbers: about three times the population of Israel so clearly I've misunderstood what you meant.
*But* Novavax, Pfizer and Moderna are pretty effective, and we are getting increasing quantities of each coming. I suspect most of us will be getting a third shot in the Autumn.
https://twitter.com/bhoompally/status/1371512305180045312?s=21
Novavax does look more promising, however
Mary Ramsay, the head of immunisation at Public Health England, said basic measures could be in place until other countries successfully roll out jabs."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56475807
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/03/21/979781065/european-scientists-zero-in-on-astrazeneca-blood-clot-link
However, the number of new first vaccinations every day is barely increasing.
The UK is at 51-52% now, and that number is rising at 0.5-0.6% per day. So, this week or next, the UK will have gotten a greater proportion of the population than Israel with at least some protection.
They've ended their lockdown, and they've largely lifted travel restrictions now (although you do need to follow the Hawaii principle and get a negative PCR test no more than 72 hours prior to departure).
So I guess we'll find out fairly soon.
I'm pretty optimistic, although I wish they were at 75% vaccinated, rather than 55%.
In terms of the politics, it’s equally difficult to see how we help out, given their unilateral and confrontational approach (which also appears to be based on a misleading account of the situation).
In all fairness, our government has so far resisted the temptation to escalate the rhetoric, and I don’t see what it is beyond that you are expecting them to do ?
Vaccine production will, in time, get to a point where the argument is finally moot. In the meantime, what the EU appear to be asking us for us deliberately to slow out vaccine program to their rate so as not to embarrass them.
That is simply not going to happen.
There was another report, which I didn’t get around to posting, about some of the variants being able to infect lab mice - which the original virus couldn’t.
https://twitter.com/DelthiaRicks/status/1373586630259408902
Just over half of German adults surveyed said they thought the vaccine was unsafe, a rise of 15 percentage points compared to February, while 43% of Italians had serious doubts, an increase of almost a third.
Well done mini-Trump...time to build a wall around France.
The survey showed that only in Britain, where the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine has been used in a national rollout since January, have the blood clot concerns had little to no impact on public confidence. The majority of people polled in the UK - 77% - still say the shot is safe. Their trust in it is on a par with Pfizer's 79% perceived safety rating.
That said, Farage and Corbyn uniquely could probably make quite the living from it, do a few dozen per day if the demand was there.