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In the betting Sturgeon’s chances of being First Minister at the end of the year tighten to 9/4 – po

13

Comments

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited March 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    "German Health Minister Jens Spahn has said that Europe lacks the vaccines needed to significantly reduce cases.

    "We have to be honest about the situation - in Europe we don't have enough vaccines to stop a third wave through vaccinations alone," he told reporters."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56460696


    But:

    "Germany’s Covid vaccine stocks unused because people don’t want AstraZeneca jab"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/germans-covid-astrazeneca-oxford-vaccine-b921196.html

    But enough to protect the most vulnerable groups and thus massively reduce the impact of a third wave, even if it cannot stop it? Lots more vaccines are coming.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,692
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Current daily Covid cases (per million people) for various European countries:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1373000369542987776

    You need to be a flag expert to understand this tweet.
    Czech Republic 1088 (-10%)
    Estonia 978 (-2%)
    Hungary 738 (16%)
    Poland 509 (37%)
    Bulgaria 474 (33%)
    Sweden 443 (16%)
    France 401 (23%)
    Italy 373 (5%)
    Netherlands 348 (24%)
    Slovakia 338 (-10%)
    Romania 266 (24%)
    Norway 172 (43%)
    Germany 158 (49%)
    Finland 126 (11%)
    Denmark 117 (-11%)
    Ireland 104 (2%)
    Spain 104 (-6%)
    United Kingdom 83 (-3%)
    Portugal 49 (-32%)

    :smile:
    A strikingly ominous number out of Germany. Huge surge
    After the B117 variant becomes dominant, cases can quickly go ballistic. The next month looks pretty grim for most of mainland Europe.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    What do people think of Simon Jenkins' idea for Covid Bank Holidays over the summer to kickstart consumer spending once we are [mostly] vaccinated?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/19/covid-bank-holidays-uk-economy-pandemic-summer

    Personally I think I'd have the first one on June 18th, after bringing forward the final unlockdown step forward at least three days.

    The article is OK, but the comments are brilliant -- rants about the money hoarders, empty consumerism, the greedy kleptocracy, the lazy middle-classes with trillions in the bank and Simon Jenkins.

    We could really do with some of those commentators on pb.com as an antidote to its niche high-end and bespoke consumerism.

    My favourite comment is: Won’t extra bank holidays just result in the nice middle class people (who’ve had a rather nice year working from home whilst poor people deliver things to them) having a nice day spent being waited on by poor people who work in bars & restaurants?

    Super !
    Presumably they would rather poor people didn’t have jobs instead?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    Does Lenny Henry only pop up once a year for Comic Relief?

    Does he do anything else??

    I was reading about him yesterday, he's got quite an impressive academic CV now, has become a well regarded stage actor, and most recently has been cast in the Lord of the Rings TV show (the most expensive televsion show ever). So I'd say he's doing quite a lot even if his profile isn't as high as it once was, but when the Lord of the Rings show starts later this year he'll probably become better known than ever before.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    In La Paz in Bolivia there is a "Museum of the Lost Coastline".

    They lost it to the Chileans (who they still hate) about a hundred and fifty years ago.


    https://boliviaesturismo.com/en/museo-del-litoral-boliviano-la-paz-bolivia-boliviaesturismo/

    The whole country was invented by Gabriel Garcia Marquez, during a major bender

    UN ruled against them on the coast thing just a couple of years ago, as I recall.
    La Paz is one of the most surreal cities in the world. Dizzying altitude, yet also in a big dip. Surrounded by suburbs with some of the maddest architecture on earth, the so-called "chalets", basically new homes built for nouveau riche indigenous drug-lords and other gangsters who want to boast. Boy, do they boast

    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/167899892327603418/

    https://qz.com/338877/flamboyant-spaceship-architecture-in-bolivia-makes-sure-indigenous-people-keep-their-traditional-culture/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/154839753@N06/44028467722

    I loved them
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    glw said:

    Does Lenny Henry only pop up once a year for Comic Relief?

    Does he do anything else??

    I was reading about him yesterday, he's got quite an impressive academic CV now, has become a well regarded stage actor, and most recently has been cast in the Lord of the Rings TV show (the most expensive televsion show ever). So I'd say he's doing quite a lot even if his profile isn't as high as it once was, but when the Lord of the Rings show starts later this year he'll probably become better known than ever before.
    What is the Lord of the Rings TV show?

    I have a very bad feeling about the sound of that...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    glw said:

    Does Lenny Henry only pop up once a year for Comic Relief?

    Does he do anything else??

    I was reading about him yesterday, he's got quite an impressive academic CV now, has become a well regarded stage actor, and most recently has been cast in the Lord of the Rings TV show (the most expensive televsion show ever). So I'd say he's doing quite a lot even if his profile isn't as high as it once was, but when the Lord of the Rings show starts later this year he'll probably become better known than ever before.
    He did a really excellent Othello.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited March 2021
    Charles said:

    What do people think of Simon Jenkins' idea for Covid Bank Holidays over the summer to kickstart consumer spending once we are [mostly] vaccinated?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/19/covid-bank-holidays-uk-economy-pandemic-summer

    Personally I think I'd have the first one on June 18th, after bringing forward the final unlockdown step forward at least three days.

    The article is OK, but the comments are brilliant -- rants about the money hoarders, empty consumerism, the greedy kleptocracy, the lazy middle-classes with trillions in the bank and Simon Jenkins.

    We could really do with some of those commentators on pb.com as an antidote to its niche high-end and bespoke consumerism.

    My favourite comment is: Won’t extra bank holidays just result in the nice middle class people (who’ve had a rather nice year working from home whilst poor people deliver things to them) having a nice day spent being waited on by poor people who work in bars & restaurants?

    Super !
    Presumably they would rather poor people didn’t have jobs instead?
    There is a strong argument for redistributing some of this saved up money from the people lucky enough to have been earning big salaries while working from home (and by big I mean North of 80,000, people who can really afford it). It should be done on a one-off basis as a single windfall tax, so that it doesn't become long term policy and affect future economic decisions/tax rates. Much preferable than a policy that might end up re-seeding the epidemic.

    Panic on pb.com :wink:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Cookie said:

    Some things in life are bad
    They can really make you mad
    Other things just make you swear and curse
    When you're chewing on life's gristle
    Don't grumble, give a whistle
    And this'll help things turn out for the best
    And
    Always look on the bright side of life
    Always look on the light side of life

    https://twitter.com/EricIdle/status/1372966780826611712?s=20

    What's Eric Idle's beef?
    Taking exception to "use you vote"?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765

    What do people think of Simon Jenkins' idea for Covid Bank Holidays over the summer to kickstart consumer spending once we are [mostly] vaccinated?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/19/covid-bank-holidays-uk-economy-pandemic-summer

    Personally I think I'd have the first one on June 18th, after bringing forward the final unlockdown step forward at least three days.

    The article is OK, but the comments are brilliant -- rants about the money hoarders, empty consumerism, the greedy kleptocracy, the lazy middle-classes with trillions in the bank and Simon Jenkins.

    We could really do with some of those commentators on pb.com as an antidote to its niche high-end and bespoke consumerism.

    My favourite comment is: Won’t extra bank holidays just result in the nice middle class people (who’ve had a rather nice year working from home whilst poor people deliver things to them) having a nice day spent being waited on by poor people who work in bars & restaurants?

    Super !
    Completely wrong of course.

    It will result in horrible middle class people (who’ve had a rather nice year working from home whilst poor people deliver things to them) having a nice day etc...
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "German Health Minister Jens Spahn has said that Europe lacks the vaccines needed to significantly reduce cases.

    "We have to be honest about the situation - in Europe we don't have enough vaccines to stop a third wave through vaccinations alone," he told reporters."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56460696


    But:

    "Germany’s Covid vaccine stocks unused because people don’t want AstraZeneca jab"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/germans-covid-astrazeneca-oxford-vaccine-b921196.html

    But enough to protect the most vulnerable groups and thus massively reduce the impact of a third wave, even if it cannot stop it? Lots more vaccines are coming.
    Even if Germany had a hyper-efficient delivery system for vaccines, which it does not, it is starting from a low base, is partially reliant on a jab that a lot of people now don't want, and even when they are inoculated they then need another 2-3 weeks for any vaccine offered to confer significant protection.

    Especially given the rampant spread of the variants, it's too late for vaccination to do much to help in the short term. Much of continental Europe is going to need lockdowns to deal with the problem - the best that can be hoped for is they don't dither and topple backwards into them quite as slowly and haphazardly as the UK did, so that the death tolls and the duration of restrictions are both less onerous.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    edited March 2021

    glw said:

    Does Lenny Henry only pop up once a year for Comic Relief?

    Does he do anything else??

    I was reading about him yesterday, he's got quite an impressive academic CV now, has become a well regarded stage actor, and most recently has been cast in the Lord of the Rings TV show (the most expensive televsion show ever). So I'd say he's doing quite a lot even if his profile isn't as high as it once was, but when the Lord of the Rings show starts later this year he'll probably become better known than ever before.
    What is the Lord of the Rings TV show?

    I have a very bad feeling about the sound of that...
    It is set long before all the Hobbit/LotR stuff, and there are apparently very heavy restrictions upon the producers from the Tolkien estate about what they can use and about sticking to the facts of Tolkien's work rather than any "rebooting". The rights alone have cost Amazon $250 million dollars, and they are planning on spending somewhere in the region of $1 billion across 5 seasons.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Leon said:

    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
    They've watched Hungary break ranks and the light bulb has flicked on. I'm surprised they've not done it already. The only question must be over production capacity: Germany can doubtless afford to pay whatever it takes to get hold of Sputnik V, but how quickly can it be delivered?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765

    Leon said:

    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
    They've watched Hungary break ranks and the light bulb has flicked on. I'm surprised they've not done it already. The only question must be over production capacity: Germany can doubtless afford to pay whatever it takes to get hold of Sputnik V, but how quickly can it be delivered?
    I've lost track on Sputnik. Does it work?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "German Health Minister Jens Spahn has said that Europe lacks the vaccines needed to significantly reduce cases.

    "We have to be honest about the situation - in Europe we don't have enough vaccines to stop a third wave through vaccinations alone," he told reporters."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56460696


    But:

    "Germany’s Covid vaccine stocks unused because people don’t want AstraZeneca jab"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/germans-covid-astrazeneca-oxford-vaccine-b921196.html

    But enough to protect the most vulnerable groups and thus massively reduce the impact of a third wave, even if it cannot stop it? Lots more vaccines are coming.
    Even if Germany had a hyper-efficient delivery system for vaccines, which it does not, it is starting from a low base, is partially reliant on a jab that a lot of people now don't want, and even when they are inoculated they then need another 2-3 weeks for any vaccine offered to confer significant protection.

    Especially given the rampant spread of the variants, it's too late for vaccination to do much to help in the short term. Much of continental Europe is going to need lockdowns to deal with the problem - the best that can be hoped for is they don't dither and topple backwards into them quite as slowly and haphazardly as the UK did, so that the death tolls and the duration of restrictions are both less onerous.
    Yes, that's the problem. You only start to get a good vaccine effect once you've done everyone over about 60, or vulnerable, and 3-4 weeks have passed. There is a lag.

    So even if Germany could get to 30% vaxxed within a month (quite an ask) there's nearly another month after that when cases and hospitalisations and deaths will keep rising, tho a severe lockdown will help a lot

    I'm not sure how strict their lockdown is? Mixed reports of closures and yet Majorcan holidays in Easter

    Western Europe needs to copy Portugal. It worked
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Leon said:

    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
    It's mental because they could easily have bought Novavax for June delivery as late as January of this year as the Czechia capacity was still available to purchase, now it isn't because Canada, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico and Singapore have bought everything from that production until early 2022 and the remainder of our excess capacity from August onwards has been pre-purchased by the US.

    It was a completely mental decision as this is a 96% efficacy vaccine on a like for like comparison with Pfizer, it's stored in a normal fridge at 2-5 degrees and it only needs a 3 week gap to reach full efficacy.

    Instead of biting the bullet and purchasing for H2 delivery the EU dithered and haggled as usual and now they are very angry at Novavax who have told them they need to wait until around this time next year or essentially fund an expansion of capacity at the Teeside production site which they have refused to do.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    glw said:

    glw said:

    Does Lenny Henry only pop up once a year for Comic Relief?

    Does he do anything else??

    I was reading about him yesterday, he's got quite an impressive academic CV now, has become a well regarded stage actor, and most recently has been cast in the Lord of the Rings TV show (the most expensive televsion show ever). So I'd say he's doing quite a lot even if his profile isn't as high as it once was, but when the Lord of the Rings show starts later this year he'll probably become better known than ever before.
    What is the Lord of the Rings TV show?

    I have a very bad feeling about the sound of that...
    It is set long before all the Hobbit/LotR stuff, and their are apparently very heavy restrictions upon the producers from the Tolkien estate about what they can use and about sticking to the facts of Tolkien's work rather than any "rebooting". The rights alone have cost Amazon $250 million dollars, and they are planning on spending somewhere in the region of $1 billion across 5 seasons.
    I’d be impressed if anyone can make an intelligible show out of the Silmarillon! There are some great stories there - they could do as a series of one offs (eg Turin or Luthien Tinuvial) but difficult to make a coherent show
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited March 2021
    And as a final comment on Simon Jenkins' proposals for extra bank holidays from our friends on 'Comment is Free', there is the tart but accurate:

    Yes, i do remember someone manifestoed for 4 more bank holidays once. Along with a free parking for Health care workers and nationalised fibreoptic broadband. Too much of a risk for the status quo sadly, so got pilliored in the press.

    😉
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    glw said:

    glw said:

    Does Lenny Henry only pop up once a year for Comic Relief?

    Does he do anything else??

    I was reading about him yesterday, he's got quite an impressive academic CV now, has become a well regarded stage actor, and most recently has been cast in the Lord of the Rings TV show (the most expensive televsion show ever). So I'd say he's doing quite a lot even if his profile isn't as high as it once was, but when the Lord of the Rings show starts later this year he'll probably become better known than ever before.
    What is the Lord of the Rings TV show?

    I have a very bad feeling about the sound of that...
    It is set long before all the Hobbit/LotR stuff, and there are apparently very heavy restrictions upon the producers from the Tolkien estate about what they can use and about sticking to the facts of Tolkien's work rather than any "rebooting". The rights alone have cost Amazon $250 million dollars, and they are planning on spending somewhere in the region of $1 billion across 5 seasons.
    $250 million dollars?

    The inklings all laughed at Tolkien down at the Lamb and Eagle.

    They're not laughing now.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited March 2021
    glw said:

    glw said:

    Does Lenny Henry only pop up once a year for Comic Relief?

    Does he do anything else??

    I was reading about him yesterday, he's got quite an impressive academic CV now, has become a well regarded stage actor, and most recently has been cast in the Lord of the Rings TV show (the most expensive televsion show ever). So I'd say he's doing quite a lot even if his profile isn't as high as it once was, but when the Lord of the Rings show starts later this year he'll probably become better known than ever before.
    What is the Lord of the Rings TV show?

    I have a very bad feeling about the sound of that...
    It is set long before all the Hobbit/LotR stuff, and their are apparently very heavy restrictions upon the producers from the Tolkien estate about what they can use and about sticking to the facts of Tolkien's work rather than any "rebooting". The rights alone have cost Amazon $250 million dollars, and they are planning on spending somewhere in the region of $1 billion across 5 seasons.
    That's...pretty bold of them, especially if the Tolkein estate are being prickly little madams about adaptations, you know, adapting original works (and background lore in this case) - the movies were phenomally popular, and I gather Tolkien's son hated it. Even Game of Thrones took several seasons to really take off among more than the nerd crowd, to justify such huge spending.

    Making a coherent show out of all the background stuff seems like it would require the producers to have a freer hand to make more stuff up and adjust things.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited March 2021
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    I'm sorry if I came across as hostile. Apologies. I am genuinely fascinated.

    Did your family use Cornish at home? Because that would be true mother-tongue Cornish-speaking which makes you a linguistic celebrity!
  • Leon said:

    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
    They've watched Hungary break ranks and the light bulb has flicked on. I'm surprised they've not done it already. The only question must be over production capacity: Germany can doubtless afford to pay whatever it takes to get hold of Sputnik V, but how quickly can it be delivered?
    I've lost track on Sputnik. Does it work?
    This is the key question. Hungary has been using it and has a very high death rate currently. Russia's is moderately high (although their figures are not trustworthy)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
    It's mental because they could easily have bought Novavax for June delivery as late as January of this year as the Czechia capacity was still available to purchase, now it isn't because Canada, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico and Singapore have bought everything from that production until early 2022 and the remainder of our excess capacity from August onwards has been pre-purchased by the US.

    It was a completely mental decision as this is a 96% efficacy vaccine on a like for like comparison with Pfizer, it's stored in a normal fridge at 2-5 degrees and it only needs a 3 week gap to reach full efficacy.

    Instead of biting the bullet and purchasing for H2 delivery the EU dithered and haggled as usual and now they are very angry at Novavax who have told them they need to wait until around this time next year or essentially fund an expansion of capacity at the Teeside production site which they have refused to do.
    Why pay when they can just slap an export ban on instead?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
    They've watched Hungary break ranks and the light bulb has flicked on. I'm surprised they've not done it already. The only question must be over production capacity: Germany can doubtless afford to pay whatever it takes to get hold of Sputnik V, but how quickly can it be delivered?
    I've lost track on Sputnik. Does it work?
    Yes. It works well. There are rumours the Russians just hacked Oxford computers and stole the blueprint of AZ. No idea if that's true. Russia has a proud scientific tradition and is quite capable of making its own vaccine


    We do know there WAS an attempt to steal the AZ formula
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710

    Leon said:

    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
    They've watched Hungary break ranks and the light bulb has flicked on. I'm surprised they've not done it already. The only question must be over production capacity: Germany can doubtless afford to pay whatever it takes to get hold of Sputnik V, but how quickly can it be delivered?
    I've lost track on Sputnik. Does it work?
    It seems quite good. Though there may be a problem with immunity to the vector.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    I was intrigued by the idea of a Pratchett Night Watch adaptation, but it seems to have come and gone without being noticed so cannot have been very good.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Is Israel's revival of Hebrew "academic and artificial".
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "German Health Minister Jens Spahn has said that Europe lacks the vaccines needed to significantly reduce cases.

    "We have to be honest about the situation - in Europe we don't have enough vaccines to stop a third wave through vaccinations alone," he told reporters."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56460696


    But:

    "Germany’s Covid vaccine stocks unused because people don’t want AstraZeneca jab"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/germans-covid-astrazeneca-oxford-vaccine-b921196.html

    But enough to protect the most vulnerable groups and thus massively reduce the impact of a third wave, even if it cannot stop it? Lots more vaccines are coming.
    Even if Germany had a hyper-efficient delivery system for vaccines, which it does not, it is starting from a low base, is partially reliant on a jab that a lot of people now don't want, and even when they are inoculated they then need another 2-3 weeks for any vaccine offered to confer significant protection.

    Especially given the rampant spread of the variants, it's too late for vaccination to do much to help in the short term. Much of continental Europe is going to need lockdowns to deal with the problem - the best that can be hoped for is they don't dither and topple backwards into them quite as slowly and haphazardly as the UK did, so that the death tolls and the duration of restrictions are both less onerous.
    Yes, that's the problem. You only start to get a good vaccine effect once you've done everyone over about 60, or vulnerable, and 3-4 weeks have passed. There is a lag.

    So even if Germany could get to 30% vaxxed within a month (quite an ask) there's nearly another month after that when cases and hospitalisations and deaths will keep rising, tho a severe lockdown will help a lot

    I'm not sure how strict their lockdown is? Mixed reports of closures and yet Majorcan holidays in Easter

    Western Europe needs to copy Portugal. It worked
    Yeah it about 25 days looking at our experience and data before an appreciable effect of vaccines can be seen in hospitals and about 35 days for the death rate. We're seeing larger than expected falls this week because it's been about 35 days since the old vaccine target of 15m was met and groups 1-4 have built up 85% protection from dying and 80% protection from ending up in hospital. It took us 6 weeks of mass vaccinations to get throigh groups 1-4 and then 5 weeks of waiting time for that to stop them from dying. Even if they get through those groups in 4 weeks, there's still 5 weeks to wait until immunity is reached, that means more than two months of a third wave of deaths, lockdowns or both.

    All the while millions of AZ doses sit in fridges in the EU waiting to be used.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    ..

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Does Lenny Henry only pop up once a year for Comic Relief?

    Does he do anything else??

    I was reading about him yesterday, he's got quite an impressive academic CV now, has become a well regarded stage actor, and most recently has been cast in the Lord of the Rings TV show (the most expensive televsion show ever). So I'd say he's doing quite a lot even if his profile isn't as high as it once was, but when the Lord of the Rings show starts later this year he'll probably become better known than ever before.
    What is the Lord of the Rings TV show?

    I have a very bad feeling about the sound of that...
    It is set long before all the Hobbit/LotR stuff, and there are apparently very heavy restrictions upon the producers from the Tolkien estate about what they can use and about sticking to the facts of Tolkien's work rather than any "rebooting". The rights alone have cost Amazon $250 million dollars, and they are planning on spending somewhere in the region of $1 billion across 5 seasons.
    $250 million dollars?

    The inklings all laughed at Tolkien down at the Lamb and Eagle.

    They're not laughing now.
    That's because they're dead.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
    They've watched Hungary break ranks and the light bulb has flicked on. I'm surprised they've not done it already. The only question must be over production capacity: Germany can doubtless afford to pay whatever it takes to get hold of Sputnik V, but how quickly can it be delivered?
    I've lost track on Sputnik. Does it work?
    This is the key question. Hungary has been using it and has a very high death rate currently. Russia's is moderately high (although their figures are not trustworthy)
    The Lancet did a study on Sputnik

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00234-8/fulltext

    Answer: it's really pretty good
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    kle4 said:

    I was intrigued by the idea of a Pratchett Night Watch adaptation, but it seems to have come and gone without being noticed so cannot have been very good.

    By all accounts it was dire.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    Charles said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Does Lenny Henry only pop up once a year for Comic Relief?

    Does he do anything else??

    I was reading about him yesterday, he's got quite an impressive academic CV now, has become a well regarded stage actor, and most recently has been cast in the Lord of the Rings TV show (the most expensive televsion show ever). So I'd say he's doing quite a lot even if his profile isn't as high as it once was, but when the Lord of the Rings show starts later this year he'll probably become better known than ever before.
    What is the Lord of the Rings TV show?

    I have a very bad feeling about the sound of that...
    It is set long before all the Hobbit/LotR stuff, and their are apparently very heavy restrictions upon the producers from the Tolkien estate about what they can use and about sticking to the facts of Tolkien's work rather than any "rebooting". The rights alone have cost Amazon $250 million dollars, and they are planning on spending somewhere in the region of $1 billion across 5 seasons.
    I’d be impressed if anyone can make an intelligible show out of the Silmarillon! There are some great stories there - they could do as a series of one offs (eg Turin or Luthien Tinuvial) but difficult to make a coherent show
    I managed to get through the Silmarillion once. I think it probably the most boring book that I have ever read.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Leon said:

    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
    They've watched Hungary break ranks and the light bulb has flicked on. I'm surprised they've not done it already. The only question must be over production capacity: Germany can doubtless afford to pay whatever it takes to get hold of Sputnik V, but how quickly can it be delivered?
    I've lost track on Sputnik. Does it work?
    This is the key question. Hungary has been using it and has a very high death rate currently. Russia's is moderately high (although their figures are not trustworthy)
    My understanding is that trial results for Sputnik V have been published in reputable journals and that it has been demonstrated to be highly effective.

    Hungary only began to deviate from the EU average vaccination rate about three weeks ago and is currently sitting at about 20 doses per 100 people - too little and too late to do very much about the disease wave with which it is currently grappling.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    I'm sorry if I came across as hostile. Apologies. I am genuinely fascinated.

    Did your family use Cornish at home? Because that would be true mother-tongue Cornish-speaking which makes you a linguistic celebrity!
    My parents used both at home as they knew I would need english to get on. My grandparents didnt speak english
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
    They've watched Hungary break ranks and the light bulb has flicked on. I'm surprised they've not done it already. The only question must be over production capacity: Germany can doubtless afford to pay whatever it takes to get hold of Sputnik V, but how quickly can it be delivered?
    I've lost track on Sputnik. Does it work?
    It seems quite good. Though there may be a problem with immunity to the vector.
    Have you read about the issues with the Ad5 vector? Some pretty disturbing stuff about how it is linked to higher susceptibilty to HIV.

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32156-5/fulltext

    Sputnik uses the the Ad5 vector in the second dose to try and avoid vector immunity (which is why I think it has got >90% efficacy with just a 4 week gap between doses) but I personally wouldn't want to take the second dose of Sputnik given the vector issues.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    rpjs said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Is Israel's revival of Hebrew "academic and artificial".
    I think Hebrew has always persisted, though only became a language used in secular discourse in the mid twentieth century.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    I'm sorry if I came across as hostile. Apologies. I am genuinely fascinated.

    Did your family use Cornish at home? Because that would be true mother-tongue Cornish-speaking which makes you a linguistic celebrity!
    My parents used both at home as they knew I would need english to get on. My grandparents didnt speak english
    Wow. I am genuinely stunned. Where was this? In Cornwall??

    This does make you quite exceptional, if this is true. I am not doubting, I am just struggling to get over a lifetime of being told "Cornish died out as a mother tongue language 250 years ago"
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    I'm sorry if I came across as hostile. Apologies. I am genuinely fascinated.

    Did your family use Cornish at home? Because that would be true mother-tongue Cornish-speaking which makes you a linguistic celebrity!
    My parents used both at home as they knew I would need english to get on. My grandparents didnt speak english
    I should also add I havent spoken it since I move in 87
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,706
    edited March 2021
    Is there any sign of the supposed Iain M. Banks Culture TV show adaptation I seem to remember someone (Amazon?) announcing what feels like a long time ago?

    Edit - just googled and apparently canned? Oh well. Not sure it's a bad thing to not spoil my imagination of the books.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    I'm sorry if I came across as hostile. Apologies. I am genuinely fascinated.

    Did your family use Cornish at home? Because that would be true mother-tongue Cornish-speaking which makes you a linguistic celebrity!
    My parents used both at home as they knew I would need english to get on. My grandparents didnt speak english
    Did they only speak to each other? Or is there a Cornish Brigadoon never discovered?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Leon said:

    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
    They've watched Hungary break ranks and the light bulb has flicked on. I'm surprised they've not done it already. The only question must be over production capacity: Germany can doubtless afford to pay whatever it takes to get hold of Sputnik V, but how quickly can it be delivered?
    I've lost track on Sputnik. Does it work?
    Yes, I believe so.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    I'm sorry if I came across as hostile. Apologies. I am genuinely fascinated.

    Did your family use Cornish at home? Because that would be true mother-tongue Cornish-speaking which makes you a linguistic celebrity!
    My parents used both at home as they knew I would need english to get on. My grandparents didnt speak english
    Wow. I am genuinely stunned. Where was this? In Cornwall??

    This does make you quite exceptional, if this is true. I am not doubting, I am just struggling to get over a lifetime of being told "Cornish died out as a mother tongue language 250 years ago"
    Padstow boy here
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    kle4 said:

    That's...pretty bold of them, especially if the Tolkein estate are being prickly little madams about adaptations, you know, adapting original works (and background lore in this case) - the movies were phenomally popular, and I gather Tolkien's son hated it. Even Game of Thrones took several seasons to really take off among more than the nerd crowd, to justify such huge spending.

    Making a coherent show out of all the background stuff seems like it would require the producers to have a freer hand to make more stuff up and adjust things.

    From what I've read the producers are allowed to invent things, but they cannot rewrite Tolkien's work, so it has to fit together.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    I'm sorry if I came across as hostile. Apologies. I am genuinely fascinated.

    Did your family use Cornish at home? Because that would be true mother-tongue Cornish-speaking which makes you a linguistic celebrity!
    My parents used both at home as they knew I would need english to get on. My grandparents didnt speak english
    Wow. I am genuinely stunned. Where was this? In Cornwall??

    This does make you quite exceptional, if this is true. I am not doubting, I am just struggling to get over a lifetime of being told "Cornish died out as a mother tongue language 250 years ago"
    Padstow boy here
    Should be noted when I grew up there people thought wadebridge 6 miles away was foreign and knew a few that hadnt been that far
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    And as a final comment on Simon Jenkins' proposals for extra bank holidays from our friends on 'Comment is Free', there is the tart but accurate:

    Yes, i do remember someone manifestoed for 4 more bank holidays once. Along with a free parking for Health care workers and nationalised fibreoptic broadband. Too much of a risk for the status quo sadly, so got pilliored in the press.

    😉

    That is funny, though the point about things being proposed in extreme situations vs normal times remains, but I do wonder if the person who proposed those things and his backers consider the lesson here - if people like the ideas when other people propose them, it illustrates pretty clearly where the problem lay.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Scott_xP said:
    Prediction: this "scandal" will disappear within seconds

    Who gives a tiny tiny Fucklet about wallpaper when the economy is in freefall and millions are dying

    I'm not sure it would be much of a scandal if there was a lack of news, TBH
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Prediction: this "scandal" will disappear within seconds

    Who gives a tiny tiny Fucklet about wallpaper when the economy is in freefall and millions are dying

    I'm not sure it would be much of a scandal if there was a lack of news, TBH
    Mail determined to get their pound of flesh. I idly wonder how much they paid for this story - and from whom?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    I'm sorry if I came across as hostile. Apologies. I am genuinely fascinated.

    Did your family use Cornish at home? Because that would be true mother-tongue Cornish-speaking which makes you a linguistic celebrity!
    My parents used both at home as they knew I would need english to get on. My grandparents didnt speak english
    Wow. I am genuinely stunned. Where was this? In Cornwall??

    This does make you quite exceptional, if this is true. I am not doubting, I am just struggling to get over a lifetime of being told "Cornish died out as a mother tongue language 250 years ago"
    Padstow boy here
    Should be noted when I grew up there people thought wadebridge 6 miles away was foreign and knew a few that hadnt been that far
    Also would point out the other traditions we kept going like mayday etc
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    $250 million dollars?

    The inklings all laughed at Tolkien down at the Lamb and Eagle.

    They're not laughing now.

    The money is properly ludicrous. Each season is going to have the budget of a blockbuster film. If it goes badly wrong the show will end up replacing the likes of Heaven's Gate and Waterworld as the canonical example of how to blow a huge pile of cash in the film/TV business.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    I'm sorry if I came across as hostile. Apologies. I am genuinely fascinated.

    Did your family use Cornish at home? Because that would be true mother-tongue Cornish-speaking which makes you a linguistic celebrity!
    My parents used both at home as they knew I would need english to get on. My grandparents didnt speak english
    I should also add I havent spoken it since I move in 87
    You're a Daily Mail article waiting to be written (and several theses, and a book, and possibly a movie). An incredible story, especially if you can trace it back to the 1800s. That means spoken mother tongue Cornish did NOT die out after all, and Dolly Pentreath in Mousehole was NOT the last

    Kernow Bys Vyken!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_Pentreath
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Is there any sign of the supposed Iain M. Banks Culture TV show adaptation I seem to remember someone (Amazon?) announcing what feels like a long time ago?

    Edit - just googled and apparently canned? Oh well. Not sure it's a bad thing to not spoil my imagination of the books.

    Here's another to add to the 'cautiously interested' pile for you.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(TV_series)

    Jared Harris as Hari Seldon.

    Maybe they could tell the 500 year story of the Foundation that Asimov never got around to.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
    It's mental because they could easily have bought Novavax for June delivery as late as January of this year as the Czechia capacity was still available to purchase, now it isn't because Canada, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico and Singapore have bought everything from that production until early 2022 and the remainder of our excess capacity from August onwards has been pre-purchased by the US.

    It was a completely mental decision as this is a 96% efficacy vaccine on a like for like comparison with Pfizer, it's stored in a normal fridge at 2-5 degrees and it only needs a 3 week gap to reach full efficacy.

    Instead of biting the bullet and purchasing for H2 delivery the EU dithered and haggled as usual and now they are very angry at Novavax who have told them they need to wait until around this time next year or essentially fund an expansion of capacity at the Teeside production site which they have refused to do.
    Why pay when they can just slap an export ban on instead?
    You beat me to it :smile:

    After the recent antics of the Commission, and its threats having been received approvingly by some of the large member states, deliveries from within the EU can't be taken for granted. If the Czechs are successfully strong-armed then all those Pacific rim countries can go whistle for their orders.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pfizer now says it will produce 2bn CV19 vaccine doses this year.

    How much of the world can handle the cold chain required?
    And utterly irrelevant to the UK if the Belgians prohibit export.
    As the Belgians require imports from the UK to make the Pfizer vaccine, their choice is either (a) produce vaccines and export some of them, or (b) don't produce vaccines.
    I'm almost certain that Boris and the Belgian PM were making that point to each other on last night's call.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    for those wondering what I meant by mayday here is a link
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6VSxh1qRhU
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:
    The EU has completely failed on vaccines. This is the final admission: Germany goes solo, and buys from Russia.

    What a disaster
    It's mental because they could easily have bought Novavax for June delivery as late as January of this year as the Czechia capacity was still available to purchase, now it isn't because Canada, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico and Singapore have bought everything from that production until early 2022 and the remainder of our excess capacity from August onwards has been pre-purchased by the US.

    It was a completely mental decision as this is a 96% efficacy vaccine on a like for like comparison with Pfizer, it's stored in a normal fridge at 2-5 degrees and it only needs a 3 week gap to reach full efficacy.

    Instead of biting the bullet and purchasing for H2 delivery the EU dithered and haggled as usual and now they are very angry at Novavax who have told them they need to wait until around this time next year or essentially fund an expansion of capacity at the Teeside production site which they have refused to do.
    Why pay when they can just slap an export ban on instead?
    You beat me to it :smile:

    After the recent antics of the Commission, and its threats having been received approvingly by some of the large member states, deliveries from within the EU can't be taken for granted. If the Czechs are successfully strong-armed then all those Pacific rim countries can go whistle for their orders.
    And then Novavax closes that site and we and those Pacific nations help them to expand in Teeside.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,706
    kle4 said:

    Is there any sign of the supposed Iain M. Banks Culture TV show adaptation I seem to remember someone (Amazon?) announcing what feels like a long time ago?

    Edit - just googled and apparently canned? Oh well. Not sure it's a bad thing to not spoil my imagination of the books.

    Here's another to add to the 'cautiously interested' pile for you.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(TV_series)

    Jared Harris as Hari Seldon.

    Maybe they could tell the 500 year story of the Foundation that Asimov never got around to.
    Definitely wouldn't mind seeing that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Prediction: this "scandal" will disappear within seconds

    Who gives a tiny tiny Fucklet about wallpaper when the economy is in freefall and millions are dying

    I'm not sure it would be much of a scandal if there was a lack of news, TBH
    Mail determined to get their pound of flesh. I idly wonder how much they paid for this story - and from whom?
    No one cares. No one gives a tinker's shag

    A mad headline, in the circs. Literally, DECOR??? It's risible

    There are many reasons to attack Boris, eg his failure to quarantine the UK in March 2020, leading to thousands of unnecessary British deaths, but the potentially pricey reupholstering of the Number 10 sofa? - it does not exactly lead the pack. It is decadently pointless
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,059
    edited March 2021
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    If what you are saying is true, then you should absoultely contact some linguists, because you would be living proof of the Cornish language never becoming exctinct, which woud be *very* big news in the world of both linguistics and Cornish identity.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    If what you are saying is true, then you should absoultely contact some linguists, because you would be living proof of the Cornish language never becoming exctinct, which woud be *very* big news in the world of both linguistics and Cornish identity.
    Indeed. It would be explosive. Linguists across the world ejaculating in surprise. Quite the survival.

    A bit like the re-discovery of the ceolacanth for zoologists

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pfizer now says it will produce 2bn CV19 vaccine doses this year.

    How much of the world can handle the cold chain required?
    And utterly irrelevant to the UK if the Belgians prohibit export.
    As the Belgians require imports from the UK to make the Pfizer vaccine, their choice is either (a) produce vaccines and export some of them, or (b) don't produce vaccines.
    Unless, of course, the missing ingredients can be sourced from elsewhere.

    This also makes the assumption that no Belgian exports = no UK exports. After placing such emphasis on the contractual obligations of businesses, the UK Government might not, under such circumstances, wish to trigger an escalating trade dispute and a domino effect of supply chain failures, which could end up wrecking everybody's efforts and resulting in lots of additional European corpses. An export ban would be a breathtaking gamble by the EU, but tit-for-tat retaliation is not a given.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    If what you are saying is true, then you should absoultely contact some linguists, because you would be living proof of the Cornish language never becoming exctinct, which woud be *very* big news in the world of both linguistics and Cornish identity.
    You do realise the cornish language just got standardised a few years a go from 14 odd dialects to one
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,234
    Andy_JS said:

    "German Health Minister Jens Spahn has said that Europe lacks the vaccines needed to significantly reduce cases.

    "We have to be honest about the situation - in Europe we don't have enough vaccines to stop a third wave through vaccinations alone," he told reporters."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56460696


    But:

    "Germany’s Covid vaccine stocks unused because people don’t want AstraZeneca jab"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/germans-covid-astrazeneca-oxford-vaccine-b921196.html

    Those 2 quotes are 4 weeks apart, so perhaps some caution?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Does Lenny Henry only pop up once a year for Comic Relief?

    Does he do anything else??

    I was reading about him yesterday, he's got quite an impressive academic CV now, has become a well regarded stage actor, and most recently has been cast in the Lord of the Rings TV show (the most expensive televsion show ever). So I'd say he's doing quite a lot even if his profile isn't as high as it once was, but when the Lord of the Rings show starts later this year he'll probably become better known than ever before.
    What is the Lord of the Rings TV show?

    I have a very bad feeling about the sound of that...
    It is set long before all the Hobbit/LotR stuff, and their are apparently very heavy restrictions upon the producers from the Tolkien estate about what they can use and about sticking to the facts of Tolkien's work rather than any "rebooting". The rights alone have cost Amazon $250 million dollars, and they are planning on spending somewhere in the region of $1 billion across 5 seasons.
    I’d be impressed if anyone can make an intelligible show out of the Silmarillon! There are some great stories there - they could do as a series of one offs (eg Turin or Luthien Tinuvial) but difficult to make a coherent show
    I managed to get through the Silmarillion once. I think it probably the most boring book that I have ever read.
    It wasn’t really written as a book - it was Christopher Tolkien’s edited collection of his father’s notes on the backstory to LoTR
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pfizer now says it will produce 2bn CV19 vaccine doses this year.

    How much of the world can handle the cold chain required?
    And utterly irrelevant to the UK if the Belgians prohibit export.
    As the Belgians require imports from the UK to make the Pfizer vaccine, their choice is either (a) produce vaccines and export some of them, or (b) don't produce vaccines.
    Unless, of course, the missing ingredients can be sourced from elsewhere.

    This also makes the assumption that no Belgian exports = no UK exports. After placing such emphasis on the contractual obligations of businesses, the UK Government might not, under such circumstances, wish to trigger an escalating trade dispute and a domino effect of supply chain failures, which could end up wrecking everybody's efforts and resulting in lots of additional European corpses. An export ban would be a breathtaking gamble by the EU, but tit-for-tat retaliation is not a given.
    Recent tweets from the Belgian PM - after talking with Boris - suggest RCS is right, and Belgium is aware it needs UK co-operation to continue as a global pharma hub, right now

    https://twitter.com/alexanderdecroo/status/1372660120006635522?s=20

    Note, also, that Belgium kept its head during the AZ meltdown, and never paused. They had the death toll, they know what to do
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    If what you are saying is true, then you should absoultely contact some linguists, because you would be living proof of the Cornish language never becoming exctinct, which woud be *very* big news in the world of both linguistics and Cornish identity.
    Indeed. It would be explosive. Linguists across the world ejaculating in surprise. Quite the survival.

    A bit like the re-discovery of the ceolacanth for zoologists

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth
    Why should I care, it dies out or it doesnt. There are people who speak cornish and those that dont, we really arent bothered about passing it on to other that our children
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pfizer now says it will produce 2bn CV19 vaccine doses this year.

    How much of the world can handle the cold chain required?
    And utterly irrelevant to the UK if the Belgians prohibit export.
    As the Belgians require imports from the UK to make the Pfizer vaccine, their choice is either (a) produce vaccines and export some of them, or (b) don't produce vaccines.
    Unless, of course, the missing ingredients can be sourced from elsewhere.

    This also makes the assumption that no Belgian exports = no UK exports. After placing such emphasis on the contractual obligations of businesses, the UK Government might not, under such circumstances, wish to trigger an escalating trade dispute and a domino effect of supply chain failures, which could end up wrecking everybody's efforts and resulting in lots of additional European corpses. An export ban would be a breathtaking gamble by the EU, but tit-for-tat retaliation is not a given.
    Recent tweets from the Belgian PM - after talking with Boris - suggest RCS is right, and Belgium is aware it needs UK co-operation to continue as a global pharma hub, right now

    https://twitter.com/alexanderdecroo/status/1372660120006635522?s=20

    Note, also, that Belgium kept its head during the AZ meltdown, and never paused. They had the death toll, they know what to do
    I've seen that story already. It is, admittedly, encouraging. I'm just very much in believe it when I see it (or so long as I don't) mode, for now.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Andy_JS said:
    All sins are equal, and there shall be no forgiveness or opportunity for redemption.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Andy_JS said:
    We’ve done this. Lots of people fancy people from the opposite party. There’s loads of them on here. How many PB Tories openly lust after Lisa Nandy, Rosena Allin-Khan, Rachel Reeves etc.

    I have a leftie primary school teacher friend who fancies Boris.

    So what?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    If what you are saying is true, then you should absoultely contact some linguists, because you would be living proof of the Cornish language never becoming exctinct, which woud be *very* big news in the world of both linguistics and Cornish identity.
    Indeed. It would be explosive. Linguists across the world ejaculating in surprise. Quite the survival.

    A bit like the re-discovery of the ceolacanth for zoologists

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth
    Why should I care, it dies out or it doesnt. There are people who speak cornish and those that dont, we really arent bothered about passing it on to other that our children
    I don't think you understand how unique you are. Again, I don't wish to sound skeptical, but if what you are saying is true, it means a European language thought dead, as a mother tongue, for 250 years, actually survived all that time

    In the world of linguistics this would be close to miraculous. Cornish is often cited, around the world, as a classic example of HOW languages die out, under pressure from more vigorous competitors

    So if it was revealed that in Padstow one family continued speaking Cornish, at home, from 1800-ish to the 1980s, that would be HUUUGE. Really. MAJOR
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/work/kate-bingham-exclusive-interview-eu-leaders-undermining-vaccine/

    'EU leaders undermining the vaccine are completely irresponsible'

    Yes indeed
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/19/pfizer-urges-eu-back-away-vaccine-blockade-threat/

    Drugmaker warns Brussels that UK has power to retaliate against any export ban by withholding raw materials needed for jab
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    If what you are saying is true, then you should absoultely contact some linguists, because you would be living proof of the Cornish language never becoming exctinct, which woud be *very* big news in the world of both linguistics and Cornish identity.
    Indeed. It would be explosive. Linguists across the world ejaculating in surprise. Quite the survival.

    A bit like the re-discovery of the ceolacanth for zoologists

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth
    Why should I care, it dies out or it doesnt. There are people who speak cornish and those that dont, we really arent bothered about passing it on to other that our children
    Your life your choices, obviously, but regardless of whether you care about passing it on or helping with the promulgation of the language, truth is always better than its lack, so people knowing the truth of the history of the language is of great interest and worth.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Andy_JS said:
    We’ve done this. Lots of people fancy people from the opposite party. There’s loads of them on here. How many PB Tories openly lust after Lisa Nandy, Rosena Allin-Khan, Rachel Reeves etc.

    I have a leftie primary school teacher friend who fancies Boris.

    So what?
    I would agree with you - unfortunately Labour marches to a different tune
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,587

    Andy_JS said:
    We’ve done this. Lots of people fancy people from the opposite party. There’s loads of them on here. How many PB Tories openly lust after Lisa Nandy, Rosena Allin-Khan, Rachel Reeves etc.

    I have a leftie primary school teacher friend who fancies Boris.

    So what?
    The language.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pfizer now says it will produce 2bn CV19 vaccine doses this year.

    How much of the world can handle the cold chain required?
    And utterly irrelevant to the UK if the Belgians prohibit export.
    As the Belgians require imports from the UK to make the Pfizer vaccine, their choice is either (a) produce vaccines and export some of them, or (b) don't produce vaccines.
    Unless, of course, the missing ingredients can be sourced from elsewhere.

    This also makes the assumption that no Belgian exports = no UK exports. After placing such emphasis on the contractual obligations of businesses, the UK Government might not, under such circumstances, wish to trigger an escalating trade dispute and a domino effect of supply chain failures, which could end up wrecking everybody's efforts and resulting in lots of additional European corpses. An export ban would be a breathtaking gamble by the EU, but tit-for-tat retaliation is not a given.
    It's basically impossible for the government not to retaliate. They'd simply have no choice and I'm certain Boris made that clear on the call to the Belgian PM last night and I'm also certain the Belgian PM assured Boris that Belgium wouldn't block vaccine deliveries to the UK or any other nation. Tit-for-tat retaliation is absolutely a given, it's the only reasonable response.

    On the actual lipid nanoparticles, it's a fiendishly difficult thing to source easily in the quantities necessary. Once the UK blocks exports I've heard that the Belgian factory would simply cease vaccine production within about 2 weeks as the stockpiles ran dry.

    I'm also 99% sure that the UK government is already contingency planning and speaking to Joe Biden about cycling up the Pfizer manufacturing in the US to allow continuous supply to the UK in return for supplying Pfizer in the US with the lipid nanoparticles.

    Belgium has got a huge, huge pharmaceuticals industry to protect. If it puts up any kind of export ban it will lose it overnight as will the rest of the EU. The Italian block of AZ to Australia has already caused a lot of concern in the industry becuase the Italian government has prevented a British company fulfilling a contract to an Australian client by blocking shipping by an American company that is based in Italy. The weak link in that is being based in a country that is hostile to exports, that can be fixed by leaving.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    If what you are saying is true, then you should absoultely contact some linguists, because you would be living proof of the Cornish language never becoming exctinct, which woud be *very* big news in the world of both linguistics and Cornish identity.
    Indeed. It would be explosive. Linguists across the world ejaculating in surprise. Quite the survival.

    A bit like the re-discovery of the ceolacanth for zoologists

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth
    Why should I care, it dies out or it doesnt. There are people who speak cornish and those that dont, we really arent bothered about passing it on to other that our children
    I don't think you understand how unique you are. Again, I don't wish to sound skeptical, but if what you are saying is true, it means a European language thought dead, as a mother tongue, for 250 years, actually survived all that time

    In the world of linguistics this would be close to miraculous. Cornish is often cited, around the world, as a classic example of HOW languages die out, under pressure from more vigorous competitors

    So if it was revealed that in Padstow one family continued speaking Cornish, at home, from 1800-ish to the 1980s, that would be HUUUGE. Really. MAJOR
    Shrugs I have met other people speaking cornish I can understand from other places so dont see why you say that. Cornish is a dying language its on its last legs these days its just not quite dead yet. I personally dont feel like being an exhibit for linguists as I guess most dont so we arent going to volunteer it
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822

    Andy_JS said:
    We’ve done this. Lots of people fancy people from the opposite party. There’s loads of them on here. How many PB Tories openly lust after Lisa Nandy, Rosena Allin-Khan, Rachel Reeves etc.

    I have a leftie primary school teacher friend who fancies Boris.

    So what?
    Well that's what you or I would say.
    But if you're from a sect within a party which spends its time being furious about everything, this sort of thing will get your goat.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    If what you are saying is true, then you should absoultely contact some linguists, because you would be living proof of the Cornish language never becoming exctinct, which woud be *very* big news in the world of both linguistics and Cornish identity.
    Indeed. It would be explosive. Linguists across the world ejaculating in surprise. Quite the survival.

    A bit like the re-discovery of the ceolacanth for zoologists

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth
    Why should I care, it dies out or it doesnt. There are people who speak cornish and those that dont, we really arent bothered about passing it on to other that our children
    I don't think you understand how unique you are. Again, I don't wish to sound skeptical, but if what you are saying is true, it means a European language thought dead, as a mother tongue, for 250 years, actually survived all that time

    In the world of linguistics this would be close to miraculous. Cornish is often cited, around the world, as a classic example of HOW languages die out, under pressure from more vigorous competitors

    So if it was revealed that in Padstow one family continued speaking Cornish, at home, from 1800-ish to the 1980s, that would be HUUUGE. Really. MAJOR
    Shrugs I have met other people speaking cornish I can understand from other places so dont see why you say that. Cornish is a dying language its on its last legs these days its just not quite dead yet. I personally dont feel like being an exhibit for linguists as I guess most dont so we arent going to volunteer it
    tbh didnt even realise it was such a big deal till now
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    If what you are saying is true, then you should absoultely contact some linguists, because you would be living proof of the Cornish language never becoming exctinct, which woud be *very* big news in the world of both linguistics and Cornish identity.
    Indeed. It would be explosive. Linguists across the world ejaculating in surprise. Quite the survival.

    A bit like the re-discovery of the ceolacanth for zoologists

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth
    Why should I care, it dies out or it doesnt. There are people who speak cornish and those that dont, we really arent bothered about passing it on to other that our children
    So how do you say "I can't abide these woke lefty wankers" in Cornish then?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    If what you are saying is true, then you should absoultely contact some linguists, because you would be living proof of the Cornish language never becoming exctinct, which woud be *very* big news in the world of both linguistics and Cornish identity.
    Indeed. It would be explosive. Linguists across the world ejaculating in surprise. Quite the survival.

    A bit like the re-discovery of the ceolacanth for zoologists

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth
    Why should I care, it dies out or it doesnt. There are people who speak cornish and those that dont, we really arent bothered about passing it on to other that our children
    So how do you say "I can't abide these woke lefty wankers" in Cornish then?
    There wasnt woke lefty wankers in the cornish population as we were intelligent so never need a phrase for it
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Andy_JS said:
    Indeed. They are climbing to a height where it will be difficult to form a government without them.
    How soon before the tabloids are wistful for the halcyon days of Frau Mutti?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,234

    Andy_JS said:
    We’ve done this. Lots of people fancy people from the opposite party. There’s loads of them on here. How many PB Tories openly lust after Lisa Nandy, Rosena Allin-Khan, Rachel Reeves etc.

    I have a leftie primary school teacher friend who fancies Boris.

    So what?
    Boris ?

    :smile:

    Off topic.

    Given where this thread seems to be, Comical Dave has a new graph, and has declared Switzerland to be back in the EU (cockup, not conspiracy):

    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372963379040686088
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    Remember also the data privacy laws. We heard how one region had gold plated this and therefore didn't know the ages of everybody so were guessing based on people having "old" sounding first names.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Floater said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/work/kate-bingham-exclusive-interview-eu-leaders-undermining-vaccine/

    'EU leaders undermining the vaccine are completely irresponsible'

    Yes indeed

    What an amazing woman. Absolute hero. Thank God we have people like her. Humbling
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:
    We’ve done this. Lots of people fancy people from the opposite party. There’s loads of them on here. How many PB Tories openly lust after Lisa Nandy, Rosena Allin-Khan, Rachel Reeves etc.

    I have a leftie primary school teacher friend who fancies Boris.

    So what?
    Well that's what you or I would say.
    But if you're from a sect within a party which spends its time being furious about everything, this sort of thing will get your goat.
    Well on PT Casino said he could never date a Labour lassie. So it's a 2 way street.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Time to cancel those summer flights ....


    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1373036033605054466


  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:
    We’ve done this. Lots of people fancy people from the opposite party. There’s loads of them on here. How many PB Tories openly lust after Lisa Nandy, Rosena Allin-Khan, Rachel Reeves etc.

    I have a leftie primary school teacher friend who fancies Boris.

    So what?
    Well that's what you or I would say.
    But if you're from a sect within a party which spends its time being furious about everything, this sort of thing will get your goat.
    It’s probably not the sort of thing anyone would choose to put on social media these days, be they male, female or trans. But my understanding is that that the tweet in question was from ten years ago. I suspect most people will be reasonably forgiving.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:
    All sins are equal, and there shall be no forgiveness or opportunity for redemption.
    No idea why Labour lost the red wall...man says coohhh blimey that tennis player is a looker and which Tory MP is a bit of all right....Stoke man and woman, yes she is good looking lass, carry on drinking pint...Labour top brass, BUUUURRRNNNNN HIIIIIIIIMMMMM.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has John Redwood become a SPAD to Jacob Rees-Mogg?

    https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1372811601364070404

    I don't like to ever defend Rees-Mogg, but he doesn't actually say that by my reading.

    He says "modest quotation in foreign languages is permissible" and "some [members] occasionally use Latin quips, and that is perfectly allowable" and "Welsh quips and Scots quotations are allowed, but not full speeches" going on to go into the cost of translation of full speeches.

    I read that as three separate but related points about foreign languages, dead/classical languages, and UK languages other than English. I don't actually think it's correct that he was referring to Welsh or Scots as "foreign languages".
    That's exactly how I understood what he was saying too.
    Why shouldn't a Welsh MP be able to do a speech in Welsh? Inconvenient, sure, but if it's their first language...
    Because it’s not an official language of the Commons and facilities are not provided to translate it. Nor could they be easily provided given the antiquated nature of the chamber.

    The key to speeches in debate is that everyone needs to be able to understand them or they are a complete waste of time.

    I believe the three surviving Celtic languages *should* be permitted to be used in the Commons, but the fact is at this moment they are not and unless a democratic decision is taken to change and enable that, speeches should be in English.
    As someone that speaks cornish I agree, should be permitted if translation is there but I dont think everyone should learn cornish and the language of parliament for the time being has to be english
    Do you really speak Cornish or do you just know a few words? I am intrigued because Cornish as a language had zero native speakers by 1800.

    It's 'revival' in the 1900s must surely have been entirely academic and artificial.
    Of course the survey in 1800 may have been wrong there may have been people who refused to admit it. I got taught it by my father and mother who learnt it from their parents etc back several generations far past the 1800's
    I've gotta be honest, I don't believe you. That would make you a mother tongue speaker of Cornish, and they died out with Dolly Pentreath

    If you are telling the truth, you could make money telling your story to linguists. Right back to the 1800s??!
    Why would I care about linguists....puzzled here? I can trace my mothers side back to an gof. I don't really care what linguist think nor do I need to chase money
    If what you are saying is true, then you should absoultely contact some linguists, because you would be living proof of the Cornish language never becoming exctinct, which woud be *very* big news in the world of both linguistics and Cornish identity.
    Indeed. It would be explosive. Linguists across the world ejaculating in surprise. Quite the survival.

    A bit like the re-discovery of the ceolacanth for zoologists

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth
    Why should I care, it dies out or it doesnt. There are people who speak cornish and those that dont, we really arent bothered about passing it on to other that our children
    So how do you say "I can't abide these woke lefty wankers" in Cornish then?
    There wasnt woke lefty wankers in the cornish population as we were intelligent so never need a phrase for it
    Ah ok. Foiled again.
This discussion has been closed.