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Opinion polls and local elections – politicalbetting.com

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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited March 2021

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    Italy is not the EU. Still no-one has criticised the US export ban using legislation designed for the Korean war which is blocking UK vaccines arriving on time.
    Italy did it with the consent and authority of the EU.

    So yes the EU did it.

    The US export ban was put in place before the contracts were, so countries placed their contracts knowing the ban was in place. That's different to taking orders and then banning them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202#:~:text=The decision affects 250,000 doses,its obligations to the EU.

    Really?

    "Italy is the first EU country to use the bloc's new regulations allowing exports to be stopped if the company providing the vaccines has failed to meet its obligations to the EU."

    "Australia said losing "one shipment" would not badly affect its rollout.

    "But it has asked the European Commission, which reportedly backs Italy's move, to review the decision."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,586
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Hancock finally confirms India IS behind vaccine delay: Delhi government blocks 4million doses to prioritise its own needs and there could be more shortfalls - but ministers insist it WON'T delay end of lockdown

    Serum Institute of India has been told it must supply its own citizens before exporting vaccines
    One batch of five million doses of the AstraZeneca jab bound for the UK has been delayed by a month
    Ministers insist the UK is 'still on track' to hit April and July targets, and people due a second dose will get one
    But hiccup means plans to expand jabs to under-50s have been put on ice until May at the earliest"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9375499/Coronavirus-UK-Vaccine-hold-caused-AstraZeneca-delivery-delay-Indian-factory.html#comments

    "May at the earliest" is not a pleasing phrase. Let us hope MaxPB's optimism is vindicated

    Hmpft
    Lord Sumption has been giving advice on disregarding the law.

    "On the ethics of law-breaking:
    “I feel sad that we have the kind of laws which public-spirited people may need to break. I have always taken a line on this, which is probably different from that of most of my former colleagues. I do not believe that there is a moral obligation to obey the law… You have to have a high degree of respect, both for the object that the law is trying to achieve, and for the way that it’s been achieved. Some laws invite breach. I think this is one of them.”"

    https://unherd.com/2021/03/lord-sumption-civil-disobedience-has-begun/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,989
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    Also Scotland. Don't forget Scotland. We must always be ready to send our soldiers north, over Hadrian's, fortified with hot broth
    That's easy, we just activate the chip implanted in the neck of each soldier in the Scottish regiments and voila - the country is ours.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,828
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    Italy is not the EU. Still no-one has criticised the US export ban using legislation designed for the Korean war which is blocking UK vaccines arriving on time.
    It was ultimately the EU, not Italy.

    Italy used a special new EU law, which allowed Italy to do this. An EU law made by the EU Commission and passed by the EU Parliament to defend the EU's vaccine supplies - it was just first applied in Italy.


    How odd that you and Topping should seek to avert blame from the EU

    "Italy is the first EU country to use the bloc's new regulations allowing exports to be stopped if the company providing the vaccines has failed to meet its obligations to the EU."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202#:~:text=The decision affects 250,000 doses,its obligations to the EU.
    I blame the EU for being stupid, using inflammatory language and counter productive threats on vaccines. I blame Italy for blocking exports because it was their decision, taken by Italian, not EU officials.

    No problem blaming the EU, I'm not a fan, just find the hyperbolic reactions on here hypocritical and illogical.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited March 2021
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    And the Aussies are NOT happy. They are also expecting 1m doses from the EU to go to Papua New Guinea, where the virus is raging, and risking mutation.

    That's the next stramash down the line, if the EU continues to be arsey

    And yeah I am happy to criticise the Americans if they blocked lawfully contracted exports. Indeed I am happy to criticise them even if they didn't. Stupid obese twits.
    This not happy?

    "Prime Minister Scott Morrison said while he had requested the review, he could also understand why Italy made the decision."
    lol. Italy was using an EU law made by the EU for the purposes of the EU. It wasn't "just Italy"

    Strasbourg Syndrome. Defend the EU at all costs, even if it makes you look a twat. Classic example
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,989
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202#:~:text=The decision affects 250,000 doses,its obligations to the EU.

    Really?

    "Italy is the first EU country to use the bloc's new regulations allowing exports to be stopped if the company providing the vaccines has failed to meet its obligations to the EU."

    "Australia said losing "one shipment" would not badly affect its rollout.

    "But it has asked the European Commission, which reportedly backs Italy's move, to review the decision."
    You're questioning my statement that it was Italy by posting a link to a news story that says it was Italy?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    Tosh the EU stated up front it was putting powers in but it was up to nation states to use them. If the EU hadn't taken the route it did italy wouldn't have blocked vaccines. Claiming its not the EU doing it is nothing more than sophistry. I didn't shoot him your honour I just passed someone a loaded gun and suggested they shot him.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,995
    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,989

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    Italy is not the EU. Still no-one has criticised the US export ban using legislation designed for the Korean war which is blocking UK vaccines arriving on time.
    It was ultimately the EU, not Italy.

    Italy used a special new EU law, which allowed Italy to do this. An EU law made by the EU Commission and passed by the EU Parliament to defend the EU's vaccine supplies - it was just first applied in Italy.


    How odd that you and Topping should seek to avert blame from the EU

    "Italy is the first EU country to use the bloc's new regulations allowing exports to be stopped if the company providing the vaccines has failed to meet its obligations to the EU."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202#:~:text=The decision affects 250,000 doses,its obligations to the EU.
    I blame the EU for being stupid, using inflammatory language and counter productive threats on vaccines. I blame Italy for blocking exports because it was their decision, taken by Italian, not EU officials.

    No problem blaming the EU, I'm not a fan, just find the hyperbolic reactions on here hypocritical and illogical.
    Sadly it has gone beyond that. If those who have moaned and whined about the EU for days on here don't take up arms and march on the EU, India, and the US RIGHT THIS MINUTE they will forever be labelled pussies.

    Sorry but them's the rules.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    Italy is not the EU. Still no-one has criticised the US export ban using legislation designed for the Korean war which is blocking UK vaccines arriving on time.
    It was ultimately the EU, not Italy.

    Italy used a special new EU law, which allowed Italy to do this. An EU law made by the EU Commission and passed by the EU Parliament to defend the EU's vaccine supplies - it was just first applied in Italy.


    How odd that you and Topping should seek to avert blame from the EU

    "Italy is the first EU country to use the bloc's new regulations allowing exports to be stopped if the company providing the vaccines has failed to meet its obligations to the EU."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202#:~:text=The decision affects 250,000 doses,its obligations to the EU.
    I blame the EU for being stupid, using inflammatory language and counter productive threats on vaccines. I blame Italy for blocking exports because it was their decision, taken by Italian, not EU officials.

    No problem blaming the EU, I'm not a fan, just find the hyperbolic reactions on here hypocritical and illogical.
    Oh FFS. The EU expressly passed an EU law so they could seize vaccines on behalf of the EU. Yet somehow this is not the EU's "fault", when this then happens inside the EU. Rrrriiiiiight

    You know what, I give up. There is no point in arguing with people who have The Syndrome. It's a form of madness, so I am arguing with a madman, which makes me, in turn, a bit mad. Enuff
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,206
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    Italy is not the EU. Still no-one has criticised the US export ban using legislation designed for the Korean war which is blocking UK vaccines arriving on time.
    It was ultimately the EU, not Italy.

    Italy used a special new EU law, which allowed Italy to do this. An EU law made by the EU Commission and passed by the EU Parliament to defend the EU's vaccine supplies - it was just first applied in Italy.


    How odd that you and Topping should seek to avert blame from the EU

    "Italy is the first EU country to use the bloc's new regulations allowing exports to be stopped if the company providing the vaccines has failed to meet its obligations to the EU."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202#:~:text=The decision affects 250,000 doses,its obligations to the EU.
    Ultimately, it's both.

    The EU cannot force a country to not export the vaccines, it can merely give it the powers.

    @MaxPB has made a very strong case about why Belgium - with its big Pharmaceutical manufacturing base - will not limit exports. Italy, which has very little (if any) high value pharma, will make a different calculation.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    Also Scotland. Don't forget Scotland. We must always be ready to send our soldiers north, over Hadrian's, fortified with hot broth
    That's easy, we just activate the chip implanted in the neck of each soldier in the Scottish regiments and voila - the country is ours.
    I thought it was Sturgeon that was more likely to activate Order 66.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    Italy is not the EU. Still no-one has criticised the US export ban using legislation designed for the Korean war which is blocking UK vaccines arriving on time.
    It was ultimately the EU, not Italy.

    Italy used a special new EU law, which allowed Italy to do this. An EU law made by the EU Commission and passed by the EU Parliament to defend the EU's vaccine supplies - it was just first applied in Italy.


    How odd that you and Topping should seek to avert blame from the EU

    "Italy is the first EU country to use the bloc's new regulations allowing exports to be stopped if the company providing the vaccines has failed to meet its obligations to the EU."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202#:~:text=The decision affects 250,000 doses,its obligations to the EU.
    Ultimately, it's both.

    The EU cannot force a country to not export the vaccines, it can merely give it the powers.

    @MaxPB has made a very strong case about why Belgium - with its big Pharmaceutical manufacturing base - will not limit exports. Italy, which has very little (if any) high value pharma, will make a different calculation.
    "Both" I can accept. Sure

    But completely exonerating the EU when it is an EU law made by EU MEPs and EU Commissioners, being applied inside the EU by an EU member for the benefit of the EU, I mean, Jesus.
  • TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    Also Scotland. Don't forget Scotland. We must always be ready to send our soldiers north, over Hadrian's, fortified with hot broth
    That's easy, we just activate the chip implanted in the neck of each soldier in the Scottish regiments and voila - the country is ours.
    No self respecting Scot would allow a chip to be implanted rather than eating it.
    Reminds me of a joke I was told by my Scottish friend.

    Q: What does Las Vegas and Glasgow have in common?

    A: Only places in the world you can use to chips to pay for sex.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    Italy is not the EU. Still no-one has criticised the US export ban using legislation designed for the Korean war which is blocking UK vaccines arriving on time.
    It was ultimately the EU, not Italy.

    Italy used a special new EU law, which allowed Italy to do this. An EU law made by the EU Commission and passed by the EU Parliament to defend the EU's vaccine supplies - it was just first applied in Italy.


    How odd that you and Topping should seek to avert blame from the EU

    "Italy is the first EU country to use the bloc's new regulations allowing exports to be stopped if the company providing the vaccines has failed to meet its obligations to the EU."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202#:~:text=The decision affects 250,000 doses,its obligations to the EU.
    I blame the EU for being stupid, using inflammatory language and counter productive threats on vaccines. I blame Italy for blocking exports because it was their decision, taken by Italian, not EU officials.

    No problem blaming the EU, I'm not a fan, just find the hyperbolic reactions on here hypocritical and illogical.
    Oh FFS. The EU expressly passed an EU law so they could seize vaccines on behalf of the EU. Yet somehow this is not the EU's "fault", when this then happens inside the EU. Rrrriiiiiight

    You know what, I give up. There is no point in arguing with people who have The Syndrome. It's a form of madness, so I am arguing with a madman, which makes me, in turn, a bit mad. Enuff
    Not only that but when that didn't work they are doubling down and talking about seizing factories and ignoring ip. If I was AZN and the factories were seized I would frankly tell all the staff to go home and good luck to the commission running the plant
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,828

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    Cancelled?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,989
    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    Tosh the EU stated up front it was putting powers in but it was up to nation states to use them. If the EU hadn't taken the route it did italy wouldn't have blocked vaccines. Claiming its not the EU doing it is nothing more than sophistry. I didn't shoot him your honour I just passed someone a loaded gun and suggested they shot him.
    Blimey that's a funny way of looking at things. You lot really do think the EU is the big bad superpower controlling all of us. No wonder you were so keen to leave.

    Italy (like us) is a sovereign nation. It can do whatever it goddamn pleases. And did, in this instance. It could, I daresay (IANAEUL) have done it with or without the EU's blessing.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,989

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    Also Scotland. Don't forget Scotland. We must always be ready to send our soldiers north, over Hadrian's, fortified with hot broth
    That's easy, we just activate the chip implanted in the neck of each soldier in the Scottish regiments and voila - the country is ours.
    No self respecting Scot would allow a chip to be implanted rather than eating it.
    There was that running through my mind as I typed...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,476
    Leon said:

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Yes voters are anti-Scottish then?

    The Queen is half-Scottish, and her line descends from the Hanoverian protestant line of the Stuarts - a Scottish royal dynasty.
    I think the blood and soil lineage thing is a bit old hat. Unless you count Galloway (and his old hat).

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1372281806255497218?s=20
    Humza is the vile guy here, isn't he?

    Listen to the way he spits the word WHITE, with contempt and hatred:


    https://twitter.com/Iainmackay8/status/1370153346116501513?s=20

    If there is a racist in this ding-dong, I suggest it is Humza Yousef
    Can we not like either of them?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,875

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    Also Scotland. Don't forget Scotland. We must always be ready to send our soldiers north, over Hadrian's, fortified with hot broth
    That's easy, we just activate the chip implanted in the neck of each soldier in the Scottish regiments and voila - the country is ours.
    No self respecting Scot would allow a chip to be implanted rather than eating it.
    Not to mention the arguments about brown sauce versus vinegar.

    But I'm coming to feel that the incessant snipes and jokes from certain PBers about military invasion of a part of the UK are not only tiresome 'banter' but also getting in the way of genuinely interesting discussion - I for one have had to rethink some of my notions after comments from several quarters today.

    This is a PB website. Not an alternative history military fanzine.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,989
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    Italy is not the EU. Still no-one has criticised the US export ban using legislation designed for the Korean war which is blocking UK vaccines arriving on time.
    It was ultimately the EU, not Italy.

    Italy used a special new EU law, which allowed Italy to do this. An EU law made by the EU Commission and passed by the EU Parliament to defend the EU's vaccine supplies - it was just first applied in Italy.


    How odd that you and Topping should seek to avert blame from the EU

    "Italy is the first EU country to use the bloc's new regulations allowing exports to be stopped if the company providing the vaccines has failed to meet its obligations to the EU."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202#:~:text=The decision affects 250,000 doses,its obligations to the EU.
    Ultimately, it's both.

    The EU cannot force a country to not export the vaccines, it can merely give it the powers.

    @MaxPB has made a very strong case about why Belgium - with its big Pharmaceutical manufacturing base - will not limit exports. Italy, which has very little (if any) high value pharma, will make a different calculation.
    First off, Australia seems to have been a grown up about it. And secondly, anyone on here know if Italy could have done it with or without the EU? My guess is yes. Is vaccine export an EU competence? Did Italy sign away its rights over vaccines? No idea.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Leon said:

    And this. FFS

    "A member of the UK's vaccine advisory group the JCVI, Professor Adam Finn, suggested the [unlockdowning] roadmap could be impacted by the hold-up. He said on Radio 4: 'The next phase – phase two – may kick off slightly later than we’d optimistically hoped.'"

    Jesus effing Christ

    Oh lordy. That is NOT what we want to hear from anyone anywhere near government.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,989
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    Italy is not the EU. Still no-one has criticised the US export ban using legislation designed for the Korean war which is blocking UK vaccines arriving on time.
    It was ultimately the EU, not Italy.

    Italy used a special new EU law, which allowed Italy to do this. An EU law made by the EU Commission and passed by the EU Parliament to defend the EU's vaccine supplies - it was just first applied in Italy.


    How odd that you and Topping should seek to avert blame from the EU

    "Italy is the first EU country to use the bloc's new regulations allowing exports to be stopped if the company providing the vaccines has failed to meet its obligations to the EU."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202#:~:text=The decision affects 250,000 doses,its obligations to the EU.
    I blame the EU for being stupid, using inflammatory language and counter productive threats on vaccines. I blame Italy for blocking exports because it was their decision, taken by Italian, not EU officials.

    No problem blaming the EU, I'm not a fan, just find the hyperbolic reactions on here hypocritical and illogical.
    Oh FFS. The EU expressly passed an EU law so they could seize vaccines on behalf of the EU. Yet somehow this is not the EU's "fault", when this then happens inside the EU. Rrrriiiiiight

    You know what, I give up. There is no point in arguing with people who have The Syndrome. It's a form of madness, so I am arguing with a madman, which makes me, in turn, a bit mad. Enuff
    Me: It was Italy, not "the EU"
    Leon, with a slam dunk quote from the BBC: "it was Italy"

    Is certainly one route whereon madness lies.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,989
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    Also Scotland. Don't forget Scotland. We must always be ready to send our soldiers north, over Hadrian's, fortified with hot broth
    That's easy, we just activate the chip implanted in the neck of each soldier in the Scottish regiments and voila - the country is ours.
    No self respecting Scot would allow a chip to be implanted rather than eating it.
    Not to mention the arguments about brown sauce versus vinegar.

    But I'm coming to feel that the incessant snipes and jokes from certain PBers about military invasion of a part of the UK are not only tiresome 'banter' but also getting in the way of genuinely interesting discussion - I for one have had to rethink some of my notions after comments from several quarters today.

    This is a PB website. Not an alternative history armchair general fantasy mummy let me stay up late military fanzine.

    FTFY.

    (with apologies to Big G)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,202
    Pulpstar said:

    That guy who partially cashed out will be breathing a big relief now.

    Wonder if he was rooting for it? OTOH 50k richer if it won. BOTOH the loss validates the partial cash out.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,989
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    That guy who partially cashed out will be breathing a big relief now.

    Wonder if he was rooting for it? OTOH 50k richer if it won. BOTOH the loss validates the partial cash out.
    We've all been there (not for the sums involved). My guess is rooting against.
  • Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    People who don't have a dart board?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,476

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    I'm trying not be be patronising here, but I'm surprised we're still getting this after people said the same thing about Matt Hancock.

    This is a Government building. You will see frequent images of the Queen, as well as flags, in Government buildings. It's not Robert Jenrick's personal boudoir. See also police stations.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    Italy is not the EU. Still no-one has criticised the US export ban using legislation designed for the Korean war which is blocking UK vaccines arriving on time.
    It was ultimately the EU, not Italy.

    Italy used a special new EU law, which allowed Italy to do this. An EU law made by the EU Commission and passed by the EU Parliament to defend the EU's vaccine supplies - it was just first applied in Italy.


    How odd that you and Topping should seek to avert blame from the EU

    "Italy is the first EU country to use the bloc's new regulations allowing exports to be stopped if the company providing the vaccines has failed to meet its obligations to the EU."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202#:~:text=The decision affects 250,000 doses,its obligations to the EU.
    Ultimately, it's both.

    The EU cannot force a country to not export the vaccines, it can merely give it the powers.

    @MaxPB has made a very strong case about why Belgium - with its big Pharmaceutical manufacturing base - will not limit exports. Italy, which has very little (if any) high value pharma, will make a different calculation.
    First off, Australia seems to have been a grown up about it. And secondly, anyone on here know if Italy could have done it with or without the EU? My guess is yes. Is vaccine export an EU competence? Did Italy sign away its rights over vaccines? No idea.
    They made an EU law expressly for this purpose. Have you gone stupid as well as mad?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,202
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    That guy who partially cashed out will be breathing a big relief now.

    Wonder if he was rooting for it? OTOH 50k richer if it won. BOTOH the loss validates the partial cash out.
    We've all been there (not for the sums involved). My guess is rooting against.
    Yes think I would have been - although pure financial rationality says you want it to win.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    100 new scripted titles over the next three years that will “portray lives of people outside of London, for the nations”, including two long-running dramas – one from the north, one from the nations.

    https://order-order.com/2021/03/18/tim-davie-announces-today-programme-and-newsnight-will-begin-broadcasting-from-outside-london/

    Sounds rather patronizing...by central decree, we need special programmes for those funny folk in the North, ee by gum, flat caps and whippets.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,989
    edited March 2021
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    That guy who partially cashed out will be breathing a big relief now.

    Wonder if he was rooting for it? OTOH 50k richer if it won. BOTOH the loss validates the partial cash out.
    We've all been there (not for the sums involved). My guess is rooting against.
    Yes think I would have been - although pure financial rationality says you want it to win.
    Like that experiment where they offer two people money. They have £100 and offer one person £5 and the other £95 and they can each keep the amount if they both agree. Oftentimes the one offered £5 disagrees.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,989
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    Italy is not the EU. Still no-one has criticised the US export ban using legislation designed for the Korean war which is blocking UK vaccines arriving on time.
    It was ultimately the EU, not Italy.

    Italy used a special new EU law, which allowed Italy to do this. An EU law made by the EU Commission and passed by the EU Parliament to defend the EU's vaccine supplies - it was just first applied in Italy.


    How odd that you and Topping should seek to avert blame from the EU

    "Italy is the first EU country to use the bloc's new regulations allowing exports to be stopped if the company providing the vaccines has failed to meet its obligations to the EU."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202#:~:text=The decision affects 250,000 doses,its obligations to the EU.
    Ultimately, it's both.

    The EU cannot force a country to not export the vaccines, it can merely give it the powers.

    @MaxPB has made a very strong case about why Belgium - with its big Pharmaceutical manufacturing base - will not limit exports. Italy, which has very little (if any) high value pharma, will make a different calculation.
    First off, Australia seems to have been a grown up about it. And secondly, anyone on here know if Italy could have done it with or without the EU? My guess is yes. Is vaccine export an EU competence? Did Italy sign away its rights over vaccines? No idea.
    They made an EU law expressly for this purpose. Have you gone stupid as well as mad?
    a) you should be rejoicing that the EU repatriated powers to the Member States; and

    b) are you sure it needed the EU for Italy to do this?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Leon said:

    Actually, perhaps we should simply bomb this guy (in a non-lethal way, natch). FBPE-er Mike Galsworthy


    https://twitter.com/march_change/status/1372471014408531971?s=20


    He accuses the UK of "gold plated vaccine nationalism", and says we are hoarding vaccines, whereas the EU has delivered vaccines to us "with love"

    I am not kidding. WITH LOVE. The EU has kindly given us THEIR vaccines because they LOVE US, whereas the British "on their little island", are just evil etc etc etc etc. He doesn't touch on the fact we have these vaccines for the reasons everyone knows: we invested sooner, paid more, got better contracts, helped the manufacturers.

    Nor does he mention that the EU "which LOVES us", has been trashing the UK vaccine even as it seeks to ban vaccine export and steal some from us at the same time.

    This is on the same scale of derangement as Keating. I really believe it is a genuine psychological affliction, like, say, Stockholm syndrome, but it just has not been diagnosed and named yet. This will happen, soon.

    We must simply love bomb him. Cause his little head to explode with Brexiteers asking "are you alright, pet?"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    Tosh the EU stated up front it was putting powers in but it was up to nation states to use them. If the EU hadn't taken the route it did italy wouldn't have blocked vaccines. Claiming its not the EU doing it is nothing more than sophistry. I didn't shoot him your honour I just passed someone a loaded gun and suggested they shot him.
    Blimey that's a funny way of looking at things. You lot really do think the EU is the big bad superpower controlling all of us. No wonder you were so keen to leave.

    Italy (like us) is a sovereign nation. It can do whatever it goddamn pleases. And did, in this instance. It could, I daresay (IANAEUL) have done it with or without the EU's blessing.
    No, the EU awarded itself these powers, it looks very much like an EU competence under the Single Market. Italy could not have done it until the EU wrote a new law to allow it. It is controversial and possibly contravenes WTO rules, but the EU did it anyway


    https://theconversation.com/covid-vaccines-is-it-legal-for-the-eu-to-restrict-exports-154527


    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_1121
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    Gogglebox has spoken...

    The stars of Channel 4's Gogglebox teared into Meghan Markle as they watched her blockbuster interview with Oprah Winfrey, joking that she should 'get a job in the gift shop' to pay for her security after it was removed.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9375685/Ofcom-receives-51-complaints-Googlebox-viewers-watching-Meghan-Markle-interview.html
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    Stocky said:

    Carnyx said:

    Stocky said:

    My Oxford AZN jab was yesterday. No sore arm at all. Seems that some get a reaction but some don't.

    Me too, jabbed that is. But distinctly off colour today.
    Strange isn't it. I wonder whether those that do get a reaction are slightly more protected by the vaccine?
    As I understand it, the reaction and the protection are from different parts of the immune system.

    The reaction is from the innate immune system (non-specific, general defences) tooling up to attack the invaders with generic defences (eg cytokine).
    The protection comes from the acquired immune system tooling up with tailored antibodies and T-cells that target covid specifically.

    NB - there can also be a reaction if you already have antibodies targeting covid from infection; that’s a special case).

    As I got jabbed 5 hours ago, I’d prefer to know if there was a way to tell in advance (I feel fine so far, but most people who report the flu-like reaction say it happens the following day) and if it meant anything, but sadly it doesn’t seem to.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    I suppose it depends whose brain gets clotted. If it's Jeff Bezos the UK might just have to file for bankruptcy.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
    I'm also struck by the assumption that everyone shares their views - that anyone watching the BBC would find it laughably gauche to be associated with the union flag and/or the queen. I can imagine how you might put a case that it is. But you wouldn't expect a national broadcaster to necessarily expect its audience to start from that point of view.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,989
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    Tosh the EU stated up front it was putting powers in but it was up to nation states to use them. If the EU hadn't taken the route it did italy wouldn't have blocked vaccines. Claiming its not the EU doing it is nothing more than sophistry. I didn't shoot him your honour I just passed someone a loaded gun and suggested they shot him.
    Blimey that's a funny way of looking at things. You lot really do think the EU is the big bad superpower controlling all of us. No wonder you were so keen to leave.

    Italy (like us) is a sovereign nation. It can do whatever it goddamn pleases. And did, in this instance. It could, I daresay (IANAEUL) have done it with or without the EU's blessing.
    No, the EU awarded itself these powers, it looks very much like an EU competence under the Single Market. Italy could not have done it until the EU wrote a new law to allow it. It is controversial and possibly contravenes WTO rules, but the EU did it anyway


    https://theconversation.com/covid-vaccines-is-it-legal-for-the-eu-to-restrict-exports-154527


    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_1121
    So Italy could have done it anyway.

    Or was the nasty old EU making them do it?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,203
    31.6% of women age 40 - 49 have had one vaccine dose, greater than 30% of 50 - 54 yr old men. How's that been managed !
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    I had a picture of the queen on my wall as a teenager. Granted it was a poster of God save the queen by the sex pistols but still
    One of the more amusing consequences of HM the Q wearing a dress that allowed green-screen projections:


  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    Tosh the EU stated up front it was putting powers in but it was up to nation states to use them. If the EU hadn't taken the route it did italy wouldn't have blocked vaccines. Claiming its not the EU doing it is nothing more than sophistry. I didn't shoot him your honour I just passed someone a loaded gun and suggested they shot him.
    Blimey that's a funny way of looking at things. You lot really do think the EU is the big bad superpower controlling all of us. No wonder you were so keen to leave.

    Italy (like us) is a sovereign nation. It can do whatever it goddamn pleases. And did, in this instance. It could, I daresay (IANAEUL) have done it with or without the EU's blessing.
    No, the EU awarded itself these powers, it looks very much like an EU competence under the Single Market. Italy could not have done it until the EU wrote a new law to allow it. It is controversial and possibly contravenes WTO rules, but the EU did it anyway


    https://theconversation.com/covid-vaccines-is-it-legal-for-the-eu-to-restrict-exports-154527


    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_1121
    So Italy could have done it anyway.

    Or was the nasty old EU making them do it?
    Strasbourg Syndrome. The EU can do no wrong, even when you are offered gold plated evidence and a slam dunk case.

    I will not engage with you further until you revert to sanity. Which might be like waiting for unlockdowning, a goal that forever recedes into the near future
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Pulpstar said:

    31.6% of women age 40 - 49 have had one vaccine dose, greater than 30% of 50 - 54 yr old men. How's that been managed !

    Care workers and nurses are disproportionately female by quite a wide margin.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    That guy who partially cashed out will be breathing a big relief now.

    Wonder if he was rooting for it? OTOH 50k richer if it won. BOTOH the loss validates the partial cash out.
    We've all been there (not for the sums involved). My guess is rooting against.
    Yes think I would have been - although pure financial rationality says you want it to win.
    Like that experiment where they offer two people money. They have £100 and offer one person £5 and the other £95 and they can each keep the amount if they both agree. Oftentimes the one offered £5 disagrees.
    From memory the result very much depends on the information provided. If it's known that the total amount was £100 it's way more likely that people disagree than they would if they didn't know the total amount or their percentage share..
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
    I'm also struck by the assumption that everyone shares their views - that anyone watching the BBC would find it laughably gauche to be associated with the union flag and/or the queen. I can imagine how you might put a case that it is. But you wouldn't expect a national broadcaster to necessarily expect its audience to start from that point of view.
    Exactly. It is a brief moment, yet it is one of the purest examples of metropolitan sneering and London bubblethink that I've seen.

    The BBC forgets that it is mainly watched by the middle aged and the old in the provinces. A conservative audience. It has already been abandoned by the young and urban.

    So it does its best to alienate the dwindling viewers it still has? Genius.


  • Pulpstar said:

    31.6% of women age 40 - 49 have had one vaccine dose, greater than 30% of 50 - 54 yr old men. How's that been managed !

    Medical and care professionals.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Have we covered this? It's an interesting hypothesis which might conceivably explain why the blood-clotting issue hasn't been seen here or in the clinical trials, but has apparently happened in a few cases on the continent:

    https://twitter.com/jacobgorm/status/1372324835930558470

    Does it explain what the bad technique involves?

    Given that we have rounded up volunteers from here there and everywhere, it would be surprising if all of their technique was perfect
    Yes, it describes how some giving the injection were pinching rather than stretching the skin where the needle was inserted, which made it slightly more likely that the shot would go into a small vein rather than the shoulder muscle.
    (It's also practice for intramuscular injection to withdraw the plunger slightly first, to see if you draw blood from a vein, but this is often omitted, as I understand it.)

    It's quite likely that some our medics/nurses have made similar errors - but even with accidental intravenous injection, the likelihood of such severe side effects is still very low indeed.
    My impression is that training has been thorough, and preparation good.

    Also in the UK, volunteers have been heavily sought from eg St John's Ambulance.

    My injection was certainly "long needle, right angle and deep in the muscle pad", a it should be.

    But UK dist. infrastructure was the one where Hancock said "I don't care - do it now, I want to be ready" months in advance. That may account for some difference.
    I must admit I felt and saw nothing - so I couldn't say. It was only the side affects of sore arm plus a 24 hour flu that proved to me I'd had the jab at all.
    Type I diabetic. Jabs and needles are a specialist subject, albeit usually into the fat not the muscle. :smile:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
    I'm also struck by the assumption that everyone shares their views - that anyone watching the BBC would find it laughably gauche to be associated with the union flag and/or the queen. I can imagine how you might put a case that it is. But you wouldn't expect a national broadcaster to necessarily expect its audience to start from that point of view.
    Exactly. It is a brief moment, yet it is one of the purest examples of metropolitan sneering and London bubblethink that I've seen.

    The BBC forgets that it is mainly watched by the middle aged and the old in the provinces. A conservative audience. It has already been abandoned by the young and urban.

    So it does its best to alienate the dwindling viewers it still has? Genius.


    But they are going to move more out of London and becomes all down with provinces....like they did when they moved to Salford....
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    Stocky said:

    Carnyx said:

    Stocky said:

    My Oxford AZN jab was yesterday. No sore arm at all. Seems that some get a reaction but some don't.

    Me too, jabbed that is. But distinctly off colour today.
    Strange isn't it. I wonder whether those that do get a reaction are slightly more protected by the vaccine?
    As I understand it, the reaction and the protection are from different parts of the immune system.

    The reaction is from the innate immune system (non-specific, general defences) tooling up to attack the invaders with generic defences (eg cytokine).
    The protection comes from the acquired immune system tooling up with tailored antibodies and T-cells that target covid specifically.

    NB - there can also be a reaction if you already have antibodies targeting covid from infection; that’s a special case).

    As I got jabbed 5 hours ago, I’d prefer to know if there was a way to tell in advance (I feel fine so far, but most people who report the flu-like reaction say it happens the following day) and if it meant anything, but sadly it doesn’t seem to.
    Oh, one addition. As a significant number of the bad outcomes to infection seem to occur when the acquired immune system is, for whatever reason, very slow in developing tailored defences while the innate system continues to pour its generic firepower in (causing significant collateral damage to the battlefield, aka your body), it may be plausible that a bad reaction to the vaccine could indicate an enhanced likelihood to having had a bad outcome from infection (if the acquired immune system reaction had also been slow, the strong innate system reaction could, if sustained, be a bad thing).

    NB - I am by no means an immunologist, nor do I play one on TV, and the above could easily be bollocks.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    Suzanne McKie QC, representing the claimant, said the Labour Party had been in "radio silence" for 18 months.

    The party said it took claims of sexual harassment "extremely seriously".

    In September 2019, while Jeremy Corbyn was Labour leader, Mr Hill was suspended from the party following an accusation of sexual harassment.

    He denied the allegation, which was later dropped , and had the whip reinstated.

    Farore Law, the firm managed by Ms McKie, said the Labour Party had a duty of care, but that both Mr Corbyn and current leader Sir Keir Starmer had failed to offer support to its client. It said the claimant had "experienced significant distress, lost employment, and had not had access to counselling".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-tees-56436341
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    England going to be chasing a big total in T20.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227

    As I suggested yesterday, AZN are clearly still having production issues. They claimed they could do 3-4 million a week, no sweat. They have never managed that.
    Yes. It's a hard thing to say about a company that has done great work developing an effective vaccine that doesn't have the same storage issues as some others. But their production side is different from product development, and they've over-promised and under-delivered on that front, quite clearly.
    As I have it, the UK AZ production ramp-up goal is 10 million a month by the end of 2021.

    Perhaps I missed something.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Roger said:

    I suppose it depends whose brain gets clotted. If it's Jeff Bezos the UK might just have to file for bankruptcy.
    No liability, AIUI, as producers of vaccines are effectively indemnified. Both in the UK and the US
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
    I'm also struck by the assumption that everyone shares their views - that anyone watching the BBC would find it laughably gauche to be associated with the union flag and/or the queen. I can imagine how you might put a case that it is. But you wouldn't expect a national broadcaster to necessarily expect its audience to start from that point of view.
    Exactly. It is a brief moment, yet it is one of the purest examples of metropolitan sneering and London bubblethink that I've seen.

    The BBC forgets that it is mainly watched by the middle aged and the old in the provinces. A conservative audience. It has already been abandoned by the young and urban.

    So it does its best to alienate the dwindling viewers it still has? Genius.


    What rubbish!

    And they pay you to write......
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    MattW said:

    As I suggested yesterday, AZN are clearly still having production issues. They claimed they could do 3-4 million a week, no sweat. They have never managed that.
    Yes. It's a hard thing to say about a company that has done great work developing an effective vaccine that doesn't have the same storage issues as some others. But their production side is different from product development, and they've over-promised and under-delivered on that front, quite clearly.
    As I have it, the UK AZ production ramp-up goal is 10 million a month by the end of 2021.

    Perhaps I missed something.
    I think it's quite a lot more than that by the end of the year.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    Hmmmmmm...that wasn't out.

    I can only imagine what the well known always neutral Indian cricket commentators are saying about that.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Hmmmmmm...that wasn't out.

    I can only imagine what the well known always neutral Indian cricket commentators are saying about that.

    Looks out to me. Umpire's call.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:
    » show previous quotes
    Yes. It's a hard thing to say about a company that has done great work developing an effective vaccine that doesn't have the same storage issues as some others. But their production side is different from product development, and they've over-promised and under-delivered on that front, quite clearly.

    The vaccine was developed by Oxford University - AZ were brought in to take it to industrial production and distribution. They're doing it for free, so not reasonable to go too hard, but at this point they do seem to have done a terrible expectations management job if nothing else.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    31.6% of women age 40 - 49 have had one vaccine dose, greater than 30% of 50 - 54 yr old men. How's that been managed !

    Care workers and nurses are disproportionately female by quite a wide margin.
    Nurses are 90:10 F:M.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    31.6% of women age 40 - 49 have had one vaccine dose, greater than 30% of 50 - 54 yr old men. How's that been managed !

    Care workers and nurses are disproportionately female by quite a wide margin.
    Nurses are 90:10 F:M.
    My guess is that Care will be quite close to that too.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
    I'm also struck by the assumption that everyone shares their views - that anyone watching the BBC would find it laughably gauche to be associated with the union flag and/or the queen. I can imagine how you might put a case that it is. But you wouldn't expect a national broadcaster to necessarily expect its audience to start from that point of view.
    Exactly. It is a brief moment, yet it is one of the purest examples of metropolitan sneering and London bubblethink that I've seen.

    The BBC forgets that it is mainly watched by the middle aged and the old in the provinces. A conservative audience. It has already been abandoned by the young and urban.

    So it does its best to alienate the dwindling viewers it still has? Genius.


    What rubbish!

    And they pay you to write......
    What about the above do you think is rubbish?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    100 new scripted titles over the next three years that will “portray lives of people outside of London, for the nations”, including two long-running dramas – one from the north, one from the nations.

    https://order-order.com/2021/03/18/tim-davie-announces-today-programme-and-newsnight-will-begin-broadcasting-from-outside-london/

    Sounds rather patronizing...by central decree, we need special programmes for those funny folk in the North, ee by gum, flat caps and whippets.

    Surely the real issue is not whether the BBC reflects the nation, but that viewers are increasingly choosing non-British programmes on non-British services like Netflix, Disney+ and so on. That does not sound to me like a problem that is countered wth more regional production, because it seems people don't really care where the programmes come from as long as they are good. The BBC needs a plan to get a lot more money, to make a lot more high-cost programming, that makes the iPlayer competitive.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    That guy who partially cashed out will be breathing a big relief now.

    Wonder if he was rooting for it? OTOH 50k richer if it won. BOTOH the loss validates the partial cash out.
    We've all been there (not for the sums involved). My guess is rooting against.
    Yes think I would have been - although pure financial rationality says you want it to win.
    What was the story here?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,532
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
    I'm also struck by the assumption that everyone shares their views - that anyone watching the BBC would find it laughably gauche to be associated with the union flag and/or the queen. I can imagine how you might put a case that it is. But you wouldn't expect a national broadcaster to necessarily expect its audience to start from that point of view.
    Exactly. It is a brief moment, yet it is one of the purest examples of metropolitan sneering and London bubblethink that I've seen.

    The BBC forgets that it is mainly watched by the middle aged and the old in the provinces. A conservative audience. It has already been abandoned by the young and urban.

    So it does its best to alienate the dwindling viewers it still has? Genius.


    Leaving aside the flag debate, BBC critics tend to overstate the absence of the younger audience. It's declined, but still 2.5 hours a week in the 18-34 age group, with 56% of young viewers watching it at some time during the week. (For comparison, the 55+ age group are 13 hours and 92%). iplayer watching (which in my circle is the preferred mechanism for younger people) has gone through the roof at 3.5 billion, or a programme a week for everyone in Britain of any age, including infants.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48840138#:~:text=There is no question that,by 16-34 year olds.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    glw said:

    100 new scripted titles over the next three years that will “portray lives of people outside of London, for the nations”, including two long-running dramas – one from the north, one from the nations.

    https://order-order.com/2021/03/18/tim-davie-announces-today-programme-and-newsnight-will-begin-broadcasting-from-outside-london/

    Sounds rather patronizing...by central decree, we need special programmes for those funny folk in the North, ee by gum, flat caps and whippets.

    Surely the real issue is not whether the BBC reflects the nation, but that viewers are increasingly choosing non-British programmes on non-British services like Netflix, Disney+ and so on. That does not sound to me like a problem that is countered wth more regional production, because it seems people don't really care where the programmes come from as long as they are good. The BBC needs a plan to get a lot more money, to make a lot more high-cost programming, that makes the iPlayer competitive.
    American programming is better quality, which hasn't always been the case.

    The BBC needs to up its game. Not pander to regional box ticking.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,206
    Why would you take the word of the Health Secretary speaking in the House of Commons, when you could instead just ingest @Leon's conspiracy theories?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
    I'm also struck by the assumption that everyone shares their views - that anyone watching the BBC would find it laughably gauche to be associated with the union flag and/or the queen. I can imagine how you might put a case that it is. But you wouldn't expect a national broadcaster to necessarily expect its audience to start from that point of view.
    Even the sanest posters are turning into Stanley Baker in Zulu. That's what Brexit does to you.....
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    glw said:

    100 new scripted titles over the next three years that will “portray lives of people outside of London, for the nations”, including two long-running dramas – one from the north, one from the nations.

    https://order-order.com/2021/03/18/tim-davie-announces-today-programme-and-newsnight-will-begin-broadcasting-from-outside-london/

    Sounds rather patronizing...by central decree, we need special programmes for those funny folk in the North, ee by gum, flat caps and whippets.

    Surely the real issue is not whether the BBC reflects the nation, but that viewers are increasingly choosing non-British programmes on non-British services like Netflix, Disney+ and so on. That does not sound to me like a problem that is countered wth more regional production, because it seems people don't really care where the programmes come from as long as they are good. The BBC needs a plan to get a lot more money, to make a lot more high-cost programming, that makes the iPlayer competitive.
    American programming is better quality, which hasn't always been the case.

    The BBC needs to up its game. Not pander to regional box ticking.
    The BBC can't afford to up its game - already it needs Amazon's money for a lot of it's fancier productions.

    So all it can do is some regional box ticking while hoping moving outside London results in interesting program ideas that also attracts viewers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
    I'm also struck by the assumption that everyone shares their views - that anyone watching the BBC would find it laughably gauche to be associated with the union flag and/or the queen. I can imagine how you might put a case that it is. But you wouldn't expect a national broadcaster to necessarily expect its audience to start from that point of view.
    Exactly. It is a brief moment, yet it is one of the purest examples of metropolitan sneering and London bubblethink that I've seen.

    The BBC forgets that it is mainly watched by the middle aged and the old in the provinces. A conservative audience. It has already been abandoned by the young and urban.

    So it does its best to alienate the dwindling viewers it still has? Genius.


    Leaving aside the flag debate, BBC critics tend to overstate the absence of the younger audience. It's declined, but still 2.5 hours a week in the 18-34 age group, with 56% of young viewers watching it at some time during the week. (For comparison, the 55+ age group are 13 hours and 92%). iplayer watching (which in my circle is the preferred mechanism for younger people) has gone through the roof at 3.5 billion, or a programme a week for everyone in Britain of any age, including infants.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48840138#:~:text=There is no question that,by 16-34 year olds.
    2.5hrs a week.....compared to how much YouTube, Netflix, Disney+? Anybody who has kids, wishes they only watched 2.5hrs of YouTube a day.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
    I'm also struck by the assumption that everyone shares their views - that anyone watching the BBC would find it laughably gauche to be associated with the union flag and/or the queen. I can imagine how you might put a case that it is. But you wouldn't expect a national broadcaster to necessarily expect its audience to start from that point of view.
    Exactly. It is a brief moment, yet it is one of the purest examples of metropolitan sneering and London bubblethink that I've seen.

    The BBC forgets that it is mainly watched by the middle aged and the old in the provinces. A conservative audience. It has already been abandoned by the young and urban.

    So it does its best to alienate the dwindling viewers it still has? Genius.


    Leaving aside the flag debate, BBC critics tend to overstate the absence of the younger audience. It's declined, but still 2.5 hours a week in the 18-34 age group, with 56% of young viewers watching it at some time during the week. (For comparison, the 55+ age group are 13 hours and 92%). iplayer watching (which in my circle is the preferred mechanism for younger people) has gone through the roof at 3.5 billion, or a programme a week for everyone in Britain of any age, including infants.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48840138#:~:text=There is no question that,by 16-34 year olds.
    2.5 hours a week is next to nothing and 44% not watching it at all.

    That's not overstating it, it is an existential crisis for Auntie.

    A programme a week does not sound much either for iPlayer. I'd imagine Netflix averages over a programme a week.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    glw said:

    100 new scripted titles over the next three years that will “portray lives of people outside of London, for the nations”, including two long-running dramas – one from the north, one from the nations.

    https://order-order.com/2021/03/18/tim-davie-announces-today-programme-and-newsnight-will-begin-broadcasting-from-outside-london/

    Sounds rather patronizing...by central decree, we need special programmes for those funny folk in the North, ee by gum, flat caps and whippets.

    Surely the real issue is not whether the BBC reflects the nation, but that viewers are increasingly choosing non-British programmes on non-British services like Netflix, Disney+ and so on. That does not sound to me like a problem that is countered wth more regional production, because it seems people don't really care where the programmes come from as long as they are good. The BBC needs a plan to get a lot more money, to make a lot more high-cost programming, that makes the iPlayer competitive.
    Yes we have done this to death. For example, Disney are going to produce 7 Star Wars shows in the next couple of years. The BBC will still be producing 4 episodes seasons on an every other year basis.

    And of course YouTube will be producing 100000s of hours of content every single day, which the yuff watch morning, noon and night.

    The BBC boss decreeing we need a "northern" show or two is fiddling while Rome burns.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    rcs1000 said:

    Why would you take the word of the Health Secretary speaking in the House of Commons, when you could instead just ingest @Leon's conspiracy theories?
    I mean, why wouldn't the government secretly give the EU 10m AZ vaccine doses?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    glw said:

    100 new scripted titles over the next three years that will “portray lives of people outside of London, for the nations”, including two long-running dramas – one from the north, one from the nations.

    https://order-order.com/2021/03/18/tim-davie-announces-today-programme-and-newsnight-will-begin-broadcasting-from-outside-london/

    Sounds rather patronizing...by central decree, we need special programmes for those funny folk in the North, ee by gum, flat caps and whippets.

    Surely the real issue is not whether the BBC reflects the nation, but that viewers are increasingly choosing non-British programmes on non-British services like Netflix, Disney+ and so on. That does not sound to me like a problem that is countered wth more regional production, because it seems people don't really care where the programmes come from as long as they are good. The BBC needs a plan to get a lot more money, to make a lot more high-cost programming, that makes the iPlayer competitive.
    American programming is better quality, which hasn't always been the case.

    The BBC needs to up its game. Not pander to regional box ticking.
    The BBC can't afford to up its game - already it needs Amazon's money for a lot of it's fancier productions.

    So all it can do is some regional box ticking while hoping moving outside London results in interesting program ideas that also attracts viewers.
    They could afford to up its game by being smarter.

    The BBC is a monolith now that is the true "Jack of All Trades" with what follows too.

    The BBC should pick some good quality things to concentrate on and work on those, rather than trying to do everything.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    rcs1000 said:

    Why would you take the word of the Health Secretary speaking in the House of Commons, when you could instead just ingest @Leon's conspiracy theories?
    To be fair I did admit it was a conspiracy theory, and I said I was "wearing my tin foil trilby"

    It was also an enormous coincidence, that the EU made its vaccine embargo threats on the day the UK admitted it was suddenly facing a future vaccine shortfall.

    Or was it coincidence? I don't like coincidences.

    Someone wondered last night if the government sent out that letter yesterday, BECAUSE of the EU threats. "Look, we don't have any vaccines anyway", is a good riposte to the EU mafia. They are less able to exert "moral pressure".

    ie the depressing letter was going out anyway, but at least this way it did some good.

    Plausible
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021

    eek said:

    glw said:

    100 new scripted titles over the next three years that will “portray lives of people outside of London, for the nations”, including two long-running dramas – one from the north, one from the nations.

    https://order-order.com/2021/03/18/tim-davie-announces-today-programme-and-newsnight-will-begin-broadcasting-from-outside-london/

    Sounds rather patronizing...by central decree, we need special programmes for those funny folk in the North, ee by gum, flat caps and whippets.

    Surely the real issue is not whether the BBC reflects the nation, but that viewers are increasingly choosing non-British programmes on non-British services like Netflix, Disney+ and so on. That does not sound to me like a problem that is countered wth more regional production, because it seems people don't really care where the programmes come from as long as they are good. The BBC needs a plan to get a lot more money, to make a lot more high-cost programming, that makes the iPlayer competitive.
    American programming is better quality, which hasn't always been the case.

    The BBC needs to up its game. Not pander to regional box ticking.
    The BBC can't afford to up its game - already it needs Amazon's money for a lot of it's fancier productions.

    So all it can do is some regional box ticking while hoping moving outside London results in interesting program ideas that also attracts viewers.
    They could afford to up its game by being smarter.

    The BBC is a monolith now that is the true "Jack of All Trades" with what follows too.

    The BBC should pick some good quality things to concentrate on and work on those, rather than trying to do everything.
    A great example of this....BBC have bought the rights to second tier cage fighting, Bellator, then stuck it on iPlayer. Why are they getting involved with cage fighting, which is popular but still a very niche sport, are buying the rights to a second tier organisation and then sticking it hidden away on their streaming service. Its like buying the rights to the rugby union championship i.e. the one below the Premiership, only the hardcore of the hardcore are interested.

    They are doing the same with buying rights to some minor e-sports events. Nobody into e-sports thinks BBC, they think Twitch.

    They are trying to get involved in markets they don't understand, are niche, buying the secondary stuff and aren't where the hardcore fans would ever think of going for that coverage.

    I am sure some committee have see these things are popular with da yuff and those funny working class folk, but they don't understand them.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
    I'm also struck by the assumption that everyone shares their views - that anyone watching the BBC would find it laughably gauche to be associated with the union flag and/or the queen. I can imagine how you might put a case that it is. But you wouldn't expect a national broadcaster to necessarily expect its audience to start from that point of view.
    Exactly. It is a brief moment, yet it is one of the purest examples of metropolitan sneering and London bubblethink that I've seen.

    The BBC forgets that it is mainly watched by the middle aged and the old in the provinces. A conservative audience. It has already been abandoned by the young and urban.

    So it does its best to alienate the dwindling viewers it still has? Genius.


    Leaving aside the flag debate, BBC critics tend to overstate the absence of the younger audience. It's declined, but still 2.5 hours a week in the 18-34 age group, with 56% of young viewers watching it at some time during the week. (For comparison, the 55+ age group are 13 hours and 92%). iplayer watching (which in my circle is the preferred mechanism for younger people) has gone through the roof at 3.5 billion, or a programme a week for everyone in Britain of any age, including infants.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48840138#:~:text=There is no question that,by 16-34 year olds.
    Is that 2.5 hours a week for live telly - plus an indeterminate amount of iplayer?

    I don't have anyone in my house in the 18-34 category. Those in the U18 category don't watch TV at all. They watch youtube, or Netflix. Those of us in our 40s watch TV almost entirely through the medium of catch-up - though we might get drawn into something after watching whatever we were watching on catchup.
    Last night I watched my first bit of live BBC1 this year. It fell into the category above - programme on catchup finished (Police Interceptors, would you believe - who catch-ups that? It's never not on. A small guilty pleasure.) and it turns out there's a Bill Bailey stand-up show on BBC1. I have honestly never laughed so hard in my life. I'd forgotten the BBC could do funny.
    Still a mad dash to turn over at 10pm before the news though!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
    I'm also struck by the assumption that everyone shares their views - that anyone watching the BBC would find it laughably gauche to be associated with the union flag and/or the queen. I can imagine how you might put a case that it is. But you wouldn't expect a national broadcaster to necessarily expect its audience to start from that point of view.
    Exactly. It is a brief moment, yet it is one of the purest examples of metropolitan sneering and London bubblethink that I've seen.

    The BBC forgets that it is mainly watched by the middle aged and the old in the provinces. A conservative audience. It has already been abandoned by the young and urban.

    So it does its best to alienate the dwindling viewers it still has? Genius.


    What rubbish!

    And they pay you to write......
    Roger, you might think it rubbish but I have never liked the BBC since it went all.PC Wokish... I dislike it intensely now. They have announcers who say "free" instead of three and the spoken word is going all Eastenders. I won't watch BBC news either and prefer ITV. The only think left worth watching is BBC 4. I cannot wait for the licence to be abolished. Let them take ads to pay for the crap they are offering.
  • Hmmmmmm...that wasn't out.

    I can only imagine what the well known always neutral Indian cricket commentators are saying about that.

    Indian commentators: Cheating England fielders means we should block all vaccines to the UK.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    American programming is better quality, which hasn't always been the case.

    The BBC needs to up its game. Not pander to regional box ticking.

    I'm not against more regional production or programming, but I don't see how it will help deal with the problems the BBC faces. Things like, the switch away from broadcasting to streaming, the switch by viewers from national to global services, and the power of the funding those global services can draw on.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
    I'm also struck by the assumption that everyone shares their views - that anyone watching the BBC would find it laughably gauche to be associated with the union flag and/or the queen. I can imagine how you might put a case that it is. But you wouldn't expect a national broadcaster to necessarily expect its audience to start from that point of view.
    Exactly. It is a brief moment, yet it is one of the purest examples of metropolitan sneering and London bubblethink that I've seen.

    The BBC forgets that it is mainly watched by the middle aged and the old in the provinces. A conservative audience. It has already been abandoned by the young and urban.

    So it does its best to alienate the dwindling viewers it still has? Genius.


    Leaving aside the flag debate, BBC critics tend to overstate the absence of the younger audience. It's declined, but still 2.5 hours a week in the 18-34 age group, with 56% of young viewers watching it at some time during the week. (For comparison, the 55+ age group are 13 hours and 92%). iplayer watching (which in my circle is the preferred mechanism for younger people) has gone through the roof at 3.5 billion, or a programme a week for everyone in Britain of any age, including infants.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48840138#:~:text=There is no question that,by 16-34 year olds.
    It's still a huge drop tho. When I were a lad the whole family watched the BBC, and we watched LOTS. 3 hours a day on average? Even in my 20s I watched 1-2 hours a day, average, I'd guess. Some days none but other days many hours - especially sports, news, documentaries and comedy

    This probably did not change until the internet really kicked in. Now my consumption is minimal. I don't listen to BBC radio, I have largely stopped using the BBC website as it is so dumbed down


    I watch quite lot of other TV. Netflix, Amazon Prime, Apple TV, some Sky (sports mainly), Youtube.

    But overall my TV consumption is down, in all forms, and the BBC is the most reduced.


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why would you take the word of the Health Secretary speaking in the House of Commons, when you could instead just ingest @Leon's conspiracy theories?
    To be fair I did admit it was a conspiracy theory, and I said I was "wearing my tin foil trilby"

    It was also an enormous coincidence, that the EU made its vaccine embargo threats on the day the UK admitted it was suddenly facing a future vaccine shortfall.

    Or was it coincidence? I don't like coincidences.

    Someone wondered last night if the government sent out that letter yesterday, BECAUSE of the EU threats. "Look, we don't have any vaccines anyway", is a good riposte to the EU mafia. They are less able to exert "moral pressure".

    ie the depressing letter was going out anyway, but at least this way it did some good.

    Plausible
    I just did some simple maths on second vaccinations - take the first vaccinations that have been administered, and shift the number forward.

    Look likes at least 10 million second vaccinations required in April.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,804
    Mr. Urquhart, I hadn't heard that eSports news.

    It's not my area, but the idea that teenagers and those in their 20s are going to watch it on the BBC rather than, as you say, through Twitch is perhaps optimistic.

    I occasionally catch bits of the news on the BBC. And that's it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited March 2021
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why would you take the word of the Health Secretary speaking in the House of Commons, when you could instead just ingest @Leon's conspiracy theories?
    I mean, why wouldn't the government secretly give the EU 10m AZ vaccine doses?
    Come come, my mad theory was that the EU had already seized them inside the EU. Not so mad, given that's what they actually did in Italy
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    TimT said:

    Roger said:

    I suppose it depends whose brain gets clotted. If it's Jeff Bezos the UK might just have to file for bankruptcy.
    No liability, AIUI, as producers of vaccines are effectively indemnified. Both in the UK and the US
    Er, hence the U.K. filing for bankruptcy!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Trying to think of the last programme I watched live on the BBC.

    I think one Question Time a few months ago. Before that the 2019 General Election maybe.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,203
    Tbh looking at the remaining over 50s to be done, combined with the incoming needed 2nd dose surge that is a hefty amount to get through if supply is constrained.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Roger said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What's the fine now for laughing at flags?

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1372547615200579591?s=20

    That's really pretty bad. Make a joke, sure, yay, sense of humour.


    But one, it just isn't funny, it's odd.

    And, two, the sneering tone? And the woman sneering at the picture of the Queen? And the nervous sneering chortles in the studio.

    Fuck the BBC.

    Every time something like this happens, the BBC dies a bit more. It is determined to drive itself over a cliff.
    It is a bit weird though. What kind of person has a picture of the Queen on the wall?
    He's not at home, he's in an office (in Whitehall?). I imagine loads of government offices have flags and pix of the Queen, it's normal.

    It is also normal for politicians to appear with the flag behind them, in all nations. Sturgeon does it all the time, note. The EU has about 300 flags and motifs in every shot. France, America, they all do it.

    But the one that gets sneered at is the Union Jack. They would never sneer at any other, least of all, perhaps, a Scottish or Welsh flag.

    It is vastly trivial, but it is one more tiny brick in the tomb the BBC is hastily building for itself.
    I'm also struck by the assumption that everyone shares their views - that anyone watching the BBC would find it laughably gauche to be associated with the union flag and/or the queen. I can imagine how you might put a case that it is. But you wouldn't expect a national broadcaster to necessarily expect its audience to start from that point of view.
    Even the sanest posters are turning into Stanley Baker in Zulu. That's what Brexit does to you.....
    You haven't seen Zulu have you?

    Stanley Baker is the engineer who famously holds his nerve, and stays sane to the end, when all around are cracking up.

    lol
This discussion has been closed.