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Opinion polls and local elections – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,590
    IanB2 said:

    Have we covered this? It's an interesting hypothesis which might conceivably explain why the blood-clotting issue hasn't been seen here or in the clinical trials, but has apparently happened in a few cases on the continent:

    https://twitter.com/jacobgorm/status/1372324835930558470

    Does it explain what the bad technique involves?

    Given that we have rounded up volunteers from here there and everywhere, it would be surprising if all of their technique was perfect
    Yes, it describes how some giving the injection were pinching rather than stretching the skin where the needle was inserted, which made it slightly more likely that the shot would go into a small vein rather than the shoulder muscle.
    (It's also practice for intramuscular injection to withdraw the plunger slightly first, to see if you draw blood from a vein, but this is often omitted, as I understand it.)

    It's quite likely that some our medics/nurses have made similar errors - but even with accidental intravenous injection, the likelihood of such severe side effects is still very low indeed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,199

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    Careful now you will be accused of being an EU-loving partisan hack...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Have we covered this? It's an interesting hypothesis which might conceivably explain why the blood-clotting issue hasn't been seen here or in the clinical trials, but has apparently happened in a few cases on the continent:

    https://twitter.com/jacobgorm/status/1372324835930558470

    Does it explain what the bad technique involves?

    Given that we have rounded up volunteers from here there and everywhere, it would be surprising if all of their technique was perfect
    Yes, it describes how some giving the injection were pinching rather than stretching the skin where the needle was inserted, which made it slightly more likely that the shot would go into a small vein rather than the shoulder muscle.
    (It's also practice for intramuscular injection to withdraw the plunger slightly first, to see if you draw blood from a vein, but this is often omitted, as I understand it.)

    It's quite likely that some our medics/nurses have made similar errors - but even with accidental intravenous injection, the likelihood of such severe side effects is still very low indeed.
    That's an additional reason to build up your deltoids so they have a bigger target.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,461

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Have we covered this? It's an interesting hypothesis which might conceivably explain why the blood-clotting issue hasn't been seen here or in the clinical trials, but has apparently happened in a few cases on the continent:

    https://twitter.com/jacobgorm/status/1372324835930558470

    Does it explain what the bad technique involves?

    Given that we have rounded up volunteers from here there and everywhere, it would be surprising if all of their technique was perfect
    Yes, it describes how some giving the injection were pinching rather than stretching the skin where the needle was inserted, which made it slightly more likely that the shot would go into a small vein rather than the shoulder muscle.
    (It's also practice for intramuscular injection to withdraw the plunger slightly first, to see if you draw blood from a vein, but this is often omitted, as I understand it.)

    It's quite likely that some our medics/nurses have made similar errors - but even with accidental intravenous injection, the likelihood of such severe side effects is still very low indeed.
    That's an additional reason to build up your deltoids so they have a bigger target.
    But a deltoid and a bicep, a hot groin and a tricep
    Makes me shake, makes me wanna take Charles Atlas by the...hand.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    As I suggested yesterday, AZN are clearly still having production issues. They claimed they could do 3-4 million a week, no sweat. They have never managed that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    Delaying the second dose of covid-19 vaccines

    https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n710

    "IgG positivity increased to 93% and 88%, respectively, after a second dose, suggesting that the second dose is critical in these vulnerable age groups."
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    edited March 2021
    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:
    As I said last night, we should still be expecting "many millions" to get their first dose in April just maybe not as many as we'd like because of unexpected delays elsewhere. The simple facts are that we're getting at least one new vaccine delivered in April and that's a completely new programme which will require at least 50% of the doses to be used for first ones. If we approve Novavax soon it adds a second new vaccine in April and more necessary first doses.

    There is literally no need to panic and I don't think anything has really changed for 18-49 year olds.
    I am sure you are right. A lot of my friends in the pharma sector are aghast at the antics of European politicians, not just because of the political "optics", but because the regulatory approval of other vaccines mean that supply issues are unlikely to be an issue in the coming months. The big problem now in continental Europe is going to be vaccine refusal rather than lack of supply, and that is bad news for all of us.
    That is what I meant yesterday regarding the misapplication of the precautionary principle.
    The correct reaction, I think, would have been to allow vaccination to proceed whilst investigating these unusual cases. By acting precipitately in halting vaccinations, they have risked more deaths from Covid in unvaccinated individuals as a direct result of the halt, as well as risking delegitimising the vaccine in the eyes of the public.
    The status quo ought to have been continuing to vaccinate.
    In normal times, most European countries rely on process more than the UK and far more than the rest of the world. It has its pros and cons but creates a lot bureaucracy. In an emergency it is just inappropriate and dangerous to insist on following the non emergency processes without any thought of the costs of doing so.
    Which is why I say there has been too little political interference, at least from what I see in Germany. The Paul Ehrlich Institut seem to think they have seen something real and then probably just followed standard operating procedure - we need politicians to take the initiative and say: This is an emergency situation we need to carry on vaccinating while you figure out what this very rare thing is.

    Instead Spahn and Merkel continue to do nothing, as they have done for over a year now. Like you say, in normal times this way of doing things has its advantages but here it is a disaster.
    This is a hard concept to get over in safety settings: in novel and rapidly evolving environments, we have to train people to recognize when SOPs cease to function and need to be abandoned. Failure to do so led, for example, to the escalation of the disaster at Three Mile Island and, indirectly, to DeepWater Horizon.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    edited March 2021
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Have we covered this? It's an interesting hypothesis which might conceivably explain why the blood-clotting issue hasn't been seen here or in the clinical trials, but has apparently happened in a few cases on the continent:

    https://twitter.com/jacobgorm/status/1372324835930558470

    Does it explain what the bad technique involves?

    Given that we have rounded up volunteers from here there and everywhere, it would be surprising if all of their technique was perfect
    Yes, it describes how some giving the injection were pinching rather than stretching the skin where the needle was inserted, which made it slightly more likely that the shot would go into a small vein rather than the shoulder muscle.
    (It's also practice for intramuscular injection to withdraw the plunger slightly first, to see if you draw blood from a vein, but this is often omitted, as I understand it.)

    It's quite likely that some our medics/nurses have made similar errors - but even with accidental intravenous injection, the likelihood of such severe side effects is still very low indeed.
    My impression is that training has been thorough, and preparation good.

    Also in the UK, volunteers have been heavily sought from eg St John's Ambulance.

    My injection was certainly "long needle, right angle and deep in the muscle pad", a it should be.

    But UK dist. infrastructure was the one where Hancock said "I don't care - do it now, I want to be ready" months in advance. That may account for some difference.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,756
    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,590

    Delaying the second dose of covid-19 vaccines

    https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n710

    "IgG positivity increased to 93% and 88%, respectively, after a second dose, suggesting that the second dose is critical in these vulnerable age groups."

    Hence the decision to prioritise second shots over first, next month.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    There should be an option for restoring the Jacobites.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304


    DougSeal said:

    Apologies for Comedy Dave, but this is a classic. He ponders whether the UK's success in vaccine procurement has been "worth the diplomatic damage".
    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372504806858895360

    This guy is a piss-poor commentator but the joke of reposting him is starting to wear a little bit thin.
    Indeed. There seems to be a culture on PB which runs like this: Hey, look, isn't this guy a moron?

    Yes, we all know he's a moron.

    Let's post some more moronic stuff from him to reiterate how much of a moron he is.

    No thanks.

    Here you go!
    He is worth studying for the medical knowledge gained. Here is an apparently intelligent man, with a proper journalistic job, who has adopted a pro-EU ideology to the extent he makes completely insane statements.

    It's fascinating and enlightening to see.

    The whole bizarre mindset of ultra-Remoaners will become an important area of psychiatric investigation in decades to come. I am serious.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The big question is whether the Tories, Labour and LDs can somehow cobble together a coalition in Scotland if they win a small majority which looks possible.

    Don't forget the Greens are also in the equation - I know HYUFD keeps ignoring them but they do need to be remembered.

    PS SLAB and SLD have awful memories of the result of formal alliances with the Tories whether at Holyrood or Westminster. So that has to be factored in.
    What is the current situation in Scotland with coalitions in local councils?
    Haven't looked recently, but there are a few unionist-type coalitions, de jure or more concealed. But that is local gmt which is much lower profile and where you also get e.g. SNP + LD coalitions.

    Aberdeen is funny - the Labour councillors were suspended for going into coalition with the SCUP and the kind of independent which is really more of a Tory rather than pro-indy type. But apparently they are still Labour so that's OK. Interesting to see Mr Sarwar's approach, though.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-56238614
    It looks clear from today's poll and others recently that the Cons are polling quite well but I doubt if they can go up much more at this stage. It really needs Labour with its new leader to draw some votes from the SNP. I have no idea how likely this is. However, both they and the LDs need to get over their thing about the Tories - otherwise they will surely not just lose themselves but probably take the Union with them.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    kamski said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    Careful now you will be accused of being an EU-loving partisan hack...
    Most of us on here have a sense of humour...
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    tlg86 said:

    kamski said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    Careful now you will be accused of being an EU-loving partisan hack...
    Most of us on here have a sense of humour...
    That is, once we recognize it was meant to be humorous!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,461

    Delaying the second dose of covid-19 vaccines

    https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n710

    "IgG positivity increased to 93% and 88%, respectively, after a second dose, suggesting that the second dose is critical in these vulnerable age groups."

    The article seems to focus on efficacy against symptomatic disease. In my laymans opinion, public policy in a crisis should be based on efficacy against hospitalisation and death, and too many researches are focusing on traditional efficacy measures.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960
    edited March 2021

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    That's a magic carpet bombing run, to be precise.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,861
    TimT said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:
    As I said last night, we should still be expecting "many millions" to get their first dose in April just maybe not as many as we'd like because of unexpected delays elsewhere. The simple facts are that we're getting at least one new vaccine delivered in April and that's a completely new programme which will require at least 50% of the doses to be used for first ones. If we approve Novavax soon it adds a second new vaccine in April and more necessary first doses.

    There is literally no need to panic and I don't think anything has really changed for 18-49 year olds.
    I am sure you are right. A lot of my friends in the pharma sector are aghast at the antics of European politicians, not just because of the political "optics", but because the regulatory approval of other vaccines mean that supply issues are unlikely to be an issue in the coming months. The big problem now in continental Europe is going to be vaccine refusal rather than lack of supply, and that is bad news for all of us.
    That is what I meant yesterday regarding the misapplication of the precautionary principle.
    The correct reaction, I think, would have been to allow vaccination to proceed whilst investigating these unusual cases. By acting precipitately in halting vaccinations, they have risked more deaths from Covid in unvaccinated individuals as a direct result of the halt, as well as risking delegitimising the vaccine in the eyes of the public.
    The status quo ought to have been continuing to vaccinate.
    In normal times, most European countries rely on process more than the UK and far more than the rest of the world. It has its pros and cons but creates a lot bureaucracy. In an emergency it is just inappropriate and dangerous to insist on following the non emergency processes without any thought of the costs of doing so.
    Which is why I say there has been too little political interference, at least from what I see in Germany. The Paul Ehrlich Institut seem to think they have seen something real and then probably just followed standard operating procedure - we need politicians to take the initiative and say: This is an emergency situation we need to carry on vaccinating while you figure out what this very rare thing is.

    Instead Spahn and Merkel continue to do nothing, as they have done for over a year now. Like you say, in normal times this way of doing things has its advantages but here it is a disaster.
    This is a hard concept to get over in safety settings: in novel and rapidly evolving environments, we have to train people to recognize when SOPs cease to function and need to be abandoned. Failure to do so led, for example, to the escalation of the disaster at Three Mile Island and, indirectly, to DeepWater Horizon.
    And Grenfell.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,775

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Yes voters favour a Republic by 56-30.
    No voters the Monarchy by 54-22.

    Disregarding don't knows I find myself in the smallest group, again.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:
    As I said last night, we should still be expecting "many millions" to get their first dose in April just maybe not as many as we'd like because of unexpected delays elsewhere. The simple facts are that we're getting at least one new vaccine delivered in April and that's a completely new programme which will require at least 50% of the doses to be used for first ones. If we approve Novavax soon it adds a second new vaccine in April and more necessary first doses.

    There is literally no need to panic and I don't think anything has really changed for 18-49 year olds.
    I am sure you are right. A lot of my friends in the pharma sector are aghast at the antics of European politicians, not just because of the political "optics", but because the regulatory approval of other vaccines mean that supply issues are unlikely to be an issue in the coming months. The big problem now in continental Europe is going to be vaccine refusal rather than lack of supply, and that is bad news for all of us.
    We rarely agree but on this last point I can tell you that in my part of rural SE Spain the sceptics are having a field day with the AZ debacle. I think it may be too late to repair the damage. Here the AZ issue relates only to younger under 55s as it is not offered to us oldies - although I know plenty of Brits here would jump at it in a heartbeat.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,590
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Have we covered this? It's an interesting hypothesis which might conceivably explain why the blood-clotting issue hasn't been seen here or in the clinical trials, but has apparently happened in a few cases on the continent:

    https://twitter.com/jacobgorm/status/1372324835930558470

    Does it explain what the bad technique involves?

    Given that we have rounded up volunteers from here there and everywhere, it would be surprising if all of their technique was perfect
    Yes, it describes how some giving the injection were pinching rather than stretching the skin where the needle was inserted, which made it slightly more likely that the shot would go into a small vein rather than the shoulder muscle.
    (It's also practice for intramuscular injection to withdraw the plunger slightly first, to see if you draw blood from a vein, but this is often omitted, as I understand it.)

    It's quite likely that some our medics/nurses have made similar errors - but even with accidental intravenous injection, the likelihood of such severe side effects is still very low indeed.
    My impression is that training has been thorough, and preparation good.

    Also in the UK, volunteers have been heavily sought from eg St John's Ambulance.

    My injection was certainly "long needle, right angle and deep in the muscle pad", a it should be.

    But UK dist. infrastructure was the one where Hancock said "I don't care - do it now, I want to be ready" months in advance. That may account for some difference.
    No doubt - but also little doubt that similar errors still happen here.
    (Anecdata ... one of my family was less than complementary about the squaddie who jabbed him.)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,461
    Leon said:


    DougSeal said:

    Apologies for Comedy Dave, but this is a classic. He ponders whether the UK's success in vaccine procurement has been "worth the diplomatic damage".
    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372504806858895360

    This guy is a piss-poor commentator but the joke of reposting him is starting to wear a little bit thin.
    Indeed. There seems to be a culture on PB which runs like this: Hey, look, isn't this guy a moron?

    Yes, we all know he's a moron.

    Let's post some more moronic stuff from him to reiterate how much of a moron he is.

    No thanks.

    Here you go!
    He is worth studying for the medical knowledge gained. Here is an apparently intelligent man, with a proper journalistic job, who has adopted a pro-EU ideology to the extent he makes completely insane statements.

    It's fascinating and enlightening to see.

    The whole bizarre mindset of ultra-Remoaners will become an important area of psychiatric investigation in decades to come. I am serious.
    If only there were examples of the polar opposite side of Brexit Derangement Syndrome to study.....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,756

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Ooft, more mixed than I'd have expected. Still, at least it can be said a Scottish republic is supported by half of Scottish voters across the board.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1372509976762187776?s=20
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:


    DougSeal said:

    Apologies for Comedy Dave, but this is a classic. He ponders whether the UK's success in vaccine procurement has been "worth the diplomatic damage".
    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372504806858895360

    This guy is a piss-poor commentator but the joke of reposting him is starting to wear a little bit thin.
    Indeed. There seems to be a culture on PB which runs like this: Hey, look, isn't this guy a moron?

    Yes, we all know he's a moron.

    Let's post some more moronic stuff from him to reiterate how much of a moron he is.

    No thanks.

    Here you go!
    He is worth studying for the medical knowledge gained. Here is an apparently intelligent man, with a proper journalistic job, who has adopted a pro-EU ideology to the extent he makes completely insane statements.

    It's fascinating and enlightening to see.

    The whole bizarre mindset of ultra-Remoaners will become an important area of psychiatric investigation in decades to come. I am serious.
    It's not just the ultra-remoaners though. There are individuals at the other end of the spectrum (and at other ends of other spectrums) who start out with fairly reasonable positions and chase themselves down rabbit holes trying to keep consistent views. (cf any one of a number of CiF articles in response to the Manchester bombing, the murder of Lee Rigby, etc.)
    It's probably twitter's fault.

    Edit: It reminds me - in ways I am struggling to articulate - of the gambler who cannot accept a loss and keeps doubling down.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Yes voters are anti-Scottish then?

    The Queen is half-Scottish, and her line descends from the Hanoverian protestant line of the Stuarts - a Scottish royal dynasty.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304

    Leon said:


    DougSeal said:

    Apologies for Comedy Dave, but this is a classic. He ponders whether the UK's success in vaccine procurement has been "worth the diplomatic damage".
    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372504806858895360

    This guy is a piss-poor commentator but the joke of reposting him is starting to wear a little bit thin.
    Indeed. There seems to be a culture on PB which runs like this: Hey, look, isn't this guy a moron?

    Yes, we all know he's a moron.

    Let's post some more moronic stuff from him to reiterate how much of a moron he is.

    No thanks.

    Here you go!
    He is worth studying for the medical knowledge gained. Here is an apparently intelligent man, with a proper journalistic job, who has adopted a pro-EU ideology to the extent he makes completely insane statements.

    It's fascinating and enlightening to see.

    The whole bizarre mindset of ultra-Remoaners will become an important area of psychiatric investigation in decades to come. I am serious.
    If only there were examples of the polar opposite side of Brexit Derangement Syndrome to study.....
    Nah, I just like bombing places.
  • As I suggested yesterday, AZN are clearly still having production issues. They claimed they could do 3-4 million a week, no sweat. They have never managed that.
    Yes. It's a hard thing to say about a company that has done great work developing an effective vaccine that doesn't have the same storage issues as some others. But their production side is different from product development, and they've over-promised and under-delivered on that front, quite clearly.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,861
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Have we covered this? It's an interesting hypothesis which might conceivably explain why the blood-clotting issue hasn't been seen here or in the clinical trials, but has apparently happened in a few cases on the continent:

    https://twitter.com/jacobgorm/status/1372324835930558470

    Does it explain what the bad technique involves?

    Given that we have rounded up volunteers from here there and everywhere, it would be surprising if all of their technique was perfect
    Yes, it describes how some giving the injection were pinching rather than stretching the skin where the needle was inserted, which made it slightly more likely that the shot would go into a small vein rather than the shoulder muscle.
    (It's also practice for intramuscular injection to withdraw the plunger slightly first, to see if you draw blood from a vein, but this is often omitted, as I understand it.)

    It's quite likely that some our medics/nurses have made similar errors - but even with accidental intravenous injection, the likelihood of such severe side effects is still very low indeed.
    My impression is that training has been thorough, and preparation good.

    Also in the UK, volunteers have been heavily sought from eg St John's Ambulance.

    My injection was certainly "long needle, right angle and deep in the muscle pad", a it should be.

    But UK dist. infrastructure was the one where Hancock said "I don't care - do it now, I want to be ready" months in advance. That may account for some difference.
    I must admit I felt and saw nothing - so I couldn't say. It was only the side affects of sore arm plus a 24 hour flu that proved to me I'd had the jab at all.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,853
    edited March 2021
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Have we covered this? It's an interesting hypothesis which might conceivably explain why the blood-clotting issue hasn't been seen here or in the clinical trials, but has apparently happened in a few cases on the continent:

    https://twitter.com/jacobgorm/status/1372324835930558470

    Does it explain what the bad technique involves?

    Given that we have rounded up volunteers from here there and everywhere, it would be surprising if all of their technique was perfect
    Yes, it describes how some giving the injection were pinching rather than stretching the skin where the needle was inserted, which made it slightly more likely that the shot would go into a small vein rather than the shoulder muscle.
    (It's also practice for intramuscular injection to withdraw the plunger slightly first, to see if you draw blood from a vein, but this is often omitted, as I understand it.)

    It's quite likely that some our medics/nurses have made similar errors - but even with accidental intravenous injection, the likelihood of such severe side effects is still very low indeed.
    My impression is that training has been thorough, and preparation good.

    Also in the UK, volunteers have been heavily sought from eg St John's Ambulance.

    My injection was certainly "long needle, right angle and deep in the muscle pad", a it should be.

    But UK dist. infrastructure was the one where Hancock said "I don't care - do it now, I want to be ready" months in advance. That may account for some difference.
    No doubt - but also little doubt that similar errors still happen here.
    (Anecdata ... one of my family was less than complementary about the squaddie who jabbed him.)
    The strange clotting incidents (as opposed to the normal background ones) seem to have been mostly in women, though. If it was just technique, why would that be?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,756
    felix said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The big question is whether the Tories, Labour and LDs can somehow cobble together a coalition in Scotland if they win a small majority which looks possible.

    Don't forget the Greens are also in the equation - I know HYUFD keeps ignoring them but they do need to be remembered.

    PS SLAB and SLD have awful memories of the result of formal alliances with the Tories whether at Holyrood or Westminster. So that has to be factored in.
    What is the current situation in Scotland with coalitions in local councils?
    Haven't looked recently, but there are a few unionist-type coalitions, de jure or more concealed. But that is local gmt which is much lower profile and where you also get e.g. SNP + LD coalitions.

    Aberdeen is funny - the Labour councillors were suspended for going into coalition with the SCUP and the kind of independent which is really more of a Tory rather than pro-indy type. But apparently they are still Labour so that's OK. Interesting to see Mr Sarwar's approach, though.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-56238614
    It looks clear from today's poll and others recently that the Cons are polling quite well but I doubt if they can go up much more at this stage. It really needs Labour with its new leader to draw some votes from the SNP. I have no idea how likely this is. However, both they and the LDs need to get over their thing about the Tories - otherwise they will surely not just lose themselves but probably take the Union with them.
    In 2014 they enthusiastically got over their thing about the Tories, to both their parties' detriment.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,861
    Leon said:


    DougSeal said:

    Apologies for Comedy Dave, but this is a classic. He ponders whether the UK's success in vaccine procurement has been "worth the diplomatic damage".
    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372504806858895360

    This guy is a piss-poor commentator but the joke of reposting him is starting to wear a little bit thin.
    Indeed. There seems to be a culture on PB which runs like this: Hey, look, isn't this guy a moron?

    Yes, we all know he's a moron.

    Let's post some more moronic stuff from him to reiterate how much of a moron he is.

    No thanks.

    Here you go!
    He is worth studying for the medical knowledge gained. Here is an apparently intelligent man, with a proper journalistic job, who has adopted a pro-EU ideology to the extent he makes completely insane statements.

    It's fascinating and enlightening to see.

    The whole bizarre mindset of ultra-Remoaners will become an important area of psychiatric investigation in decades to come. I am serious.
    Saw on the thread last night that you are doing most of your posts from bed. Not sure how I feel about that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Ooft, more mixed than I'd have expected. Still, at least it can be said a Scottish republic is supported by half of Scottish voters across the board.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1372509976762187776?s=20
    Since when was 39% half?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766

    Andy_JS said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The big question is whether the Tories, Labour and LDs can somehow cobble together a coalition in Scotland if they win a small majority which looks possible.

    Don't forget the Greens are also in the equation - I know HYUFD keeps ignoring them but they do need to be remembered.

    PS SLAB and SLD have awful memories of the result of formal alliances with the Tories whether at Holyrood or Westminster. So that has to be factored in.
    They're pro-independence so wouldn't join a Con/Lab/LD agreement I assume. Even if the Tories win more votes than Labour it might be better to have Labour leading the coalition since Tory voters would probably put up with that arrangement whereas Labour supporters would find it hard to stomach a Tory leader.
    Green votes are available for budgets, etc, if there are Green policies to support. I don't think they'd refuse to work with Unionist parties solely due to the Constitutional question.
    I think it is perfectly possible for a party or a couple of parties to run a minority administration. They will have to negotiate with the rest on what goes through. Compromise is the order of the day. Sometimes leads to good government, sometimes bad. Like with most other things it depends on the quality of the leadership.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,756

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Yes voters are anti-Scottish then?

    The Queen is half-Scottish, and her line descends from the Hanoverian protestant line of the Stuarts - a Scottish royal dynasty.
    I think the blood and soil lineage thing is a bit old hat. Unless you count Galloway (and his old hat).

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1372281806255497218?s=20
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,461
    Leon said:

    Leon said:


    DougSeal said:

    Apologies for Comedy Dave, but this is a classic. He ponders whether the UK's success in vaccine procurement has been "worth the diplomatic damage".
    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372504806858895360

    This guy is a piss-poor commentator but the joke of reposting him is starting to wear a little bit thin.
    Indeed. There seems to be a culture on PB which runs like this: Hey, look, isn't this guy a moron?

    Yes, we all know he's a moron.

    Let's post some more moronic stuff from him to reiterate how much of a moron he is.

    No thanks.

    Here you go!
    He is worth studying for the medical knowledge gained. Here is an apparently intelligent man, with a proper journalistic job, who has adopted a pro-EU ideology to the extent he makes completely insane statements.

    It's fascinating and enlightening to see.

    The whole bizarre mindset of ultra-Remoaners will become an important area of psychiatric investigation in decades to come. I am serious.
    If only there were examples of the polar opposite side of Brexit Derangement Syndrome to study.....
    Nah, I just like bombing places.
    Whats the Leon RAF response to UK ordered vaccines being held up because of the US blocking ingredients to India?

    https://www.ft.com/content/7225cbad-8523-425f-b82c-d49b80c39417
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    edited March 2021




    No doubt - but also little doubt that similar errors still happen here.
    (Anecdata ... one of my family was less than complementary about the squaddie who jabbed him.)

    I'd be tickled pink to be jabbed by a squaddie.. oh we're still on about vaccines are we?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Ooft, more mixed than I'd have expected. Still, at least it can be said a Scottish republic is supported by half of Scottish voters across the board.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1372509976762187776?s=20
    Since when was 39% half?
    Wow, coming from you (!) 😂
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    HYUFD said:

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Ooft, more mixed than I'd have expected. Still, at least it can be said a Scottish republic is supported by half of Scottish voters across the board.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1372509976762187776?s=20
    Since when was 39% half?
    When you count those who actually vote. = 50%.
  • I don't think shifting that will happen by accident. It would take a decisive movement among voters to achieve. We'd probably need to see Labour retaking some lost constituency seats where they are currently a long way behind.

    Their biggest problem is likely to be apathy among voters who support the SNP because they're seen as a competent administration, rather than due any determined support for independence. I suspect a fair few of those will just not vote.

    And of course there's the spectre of the Hamilton inquiry, and how negative the effect will be if it goes against Sturgeon.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Ooft, more mixed than I'd have expected. Still, at least it can be said a Scottish republic is supported by half of Scottish voters across the board.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1372509976762187776?s=20
    Since when was 39% half?
    When you count those who actually vote. = 50%.
    No, it is 39% with a large number of undecideds
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,861
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:


    DougSeal said:

    Apologies for Comedy Dave, but this is a classic. He ponders whether the UK's success in vaccine procurement has been "worth the diplomatic damage".
    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372504806858895360

    This guy is a piss-poor commentator but the joke of reposting him is starting to wear a little bit thin.
    Indeed. There seems to be a culture on PB which runs like this: Hey, look, isn't this guy a moron?

    Yes, we all know he's a moron.

    Let's post some more moronic stuff from him to reiterate how much of a moron he is.

    No thanks.

    Here you go!
    He is worth studying for the medical knowledge gained. Here is an apparently intelligent man, with a proper journalistic job, who has adopted a pro-EU ideology to the extent he makes completely insane statements.

    It's fascinating and enlightening to see.

    The whole bizarre mindset of ultra-Remoaners will become an important area of psychiatric investigation in decades to come. I am serious.
    It's not just the ultra-remoaners though. There are individuals at the other end of the spectrum (and at other ends of other spectrums) who start out with fairly reasonable positions and chase themselves down rabbit holes trying to keep consistent views. (cf any one of a number of CiF articles in response to the Manchester bombing, the murder of Lee Rigby, etc.)
    It's probably twitter's fault.

    Edit: It reminds me - in ways I am struggling to articulate - of the gambler who cannot accept a loss and keeps doubling down.
    Yes, consistency is on the whole a good thing but if you make a fetish of it you end up spouting palpable nonsense from time to time.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Yes voters favour a Republic by 56-30.
    No voters the Monarchy by 54-22.

    Disregarding don't knows I find myself in the smallest group, again.
    Perhaps if SNP supporters realised she is ethnically German rather than English (which no doubt many of them see her as, and hate her as a result) they might change their minds. Time to change back to House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, perhaps, or maybe to publicise the number of Scots that have been on the British throne? (Nats aren't so good on non-fake history)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    AEP Telegraph:

    "my hunch is that the first year of independence will be much better than almost anybody expected."
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    As I suggested yesterday, AZN are clearly still having production issues. They claimed they could do 3-4 million a week, no sweat. They have never managed that.
    Yes. It's a hard thing to say about a company that has done great work developing an effective vaccine that doesn't have the same storage issues as some others. But their production side is different from product development, and they've over-promised and under-delivered on that front, quite clearly.
    It's not only them. If you look at reports from last summer, the Serum Institute also thought they could produce much more than they have done. I can't help wondering whether the laudable aim of trying to do it on a not-for-profit basis has turned out to be a bad idea because it removed some of the incentives for delivering at scale.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    Opinium show Scottish polling nip-and-tuck with 2016 (at least I hope the changes are 2016 and I haven't forgotten an election in 2017!)

    Holyrood Voting Intention:

    Constituency:
    SNP: 46% (-1)
    CON: 24% (+2)
    LAB: 20% (-3)
    LDM: 6% (-2)
    GRN: 4% (+3)

    Regional List:
    SNP: 42% (=)
    CON: 22% (-1)
    LAB: 19% (=)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    LDM: 5% (=)

    Via @OpiniumResearch, 11-16 Mar.
    Changes w/ 2017 Election.

    — Election Maps UK (@ElectionMapsUK) March 18, 2021
    Probably good news for the SNP that damage has been contained.

    That poll would see the SNP on 64 seats ie short of the 65 needed for a majority and thus allow Boris to easily dismiss Sturgeon's calls for indyref2 which he certainly will
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304
    edited March 2021
    Actually, perhaps we should simply bomb this guy (in a non-lethal way, natch). FBPE-er Mike Galsworthy


    https://twitter.com/march_change/status/1372471014408531971?s=20


    He accuses the UK of "gold plated vaccine nationalism", and says we are hoarding vaccines, whereas the EU has delivered vaccines to us "with love"

    I am not kidding. WITH LOVE. The EU has kindly given us THEIR vaccines because they LOVE US, whereas the British "on their little island", are just evil etc etc etc etc. He doesn't touch on the fact we have these vaccines for the reasons everyone knows: we invested sooner, paid more, got better contracts, helped the manufacturers.

    Nor does he mention that the EU "which LOVES us", has been trashing the UK vaccine even as it seeks to ban vaccine export and steal some from us at the same time.

    This is on the same scale of derangement as Keating. I really believe it is a genuine psychological affliction, like, say, Stockholm syndrome, but it just has not been diagnosed and named yet. This will happen, soon.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,756
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Ooft, more mixed than I'd have expected. Still, at least it can be said a Scottish republic is supported by half of Scottish voters across the board.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1372509976762187776?s=20
    Since when was 39% half?
    When you count those who actually vote. = 50%.
    No, it is 39% with a large number of undecideds
    HYUFD in 'only 39% of Scots voters support the monarchy' shock admission!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Yes voters favour a Republic by 56-30.
    No voters the Monarchy by 54-22.

    Disregarding don't knows I find myself in the smallest group, again.
    Perhaps if SNP supporters realised she is ethnically German rather than English (which no doubt many of them see her as, and hate her as a result) they might change their minds. Time to change back to House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, perhaps, or maybe to publicise the number of Scots that have been on the British throne? (Nats aren't so good on non-fake history)
    Oh come now, that last is a direct insult. You can do better than that.

    And it's an odd thing to say given how little emphasis there is in SNP (etc) discourse about history, compared with the infinite emphasis on Our Island Nation south of the border.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Ooft, more mixed than I'd have expected. Still, at least it can be said a Scottish republic is supported by half of Scottish voters across the board.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1372509976762187776?s=20
    Since when was 39% half?
    When you count those who actually vote. = 50%.
    No, it is 39% with a large number of undecideds
    HYUFD in 'only 39% of Scots voters support the monarchy' shock admission!
    I sure wouldn't like him to be measuring for my new carpet.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    That poll would see the SNP on 64 seats ie short of the 65 needed for a majority and thus allow Boris to easily dismiss Sturgeon's calls for indyref2 which he certainly will

    Ah yes. This post again.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620
    Leon said:


    DougSeal said:

    Apologies for Comedy Dave, but this is a classic. He ponders whether the UK's success in vaccine procurement has been "worth the diplomatic damage".
    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372504806858895360

    This guy is a piss-poor commentator but the joke of reposting him is starting to wear a little bit thin.
    Indeed. There seems to be a culture on PB which runs like this: Hey, look, isn't this guy a moron?

    Yes, we all know he's a moron.

    Let's post some more moronic stuff from him to reiterate how much of a moron he is.

    No thanks.

    Here you go!
    He is worth studying for the medical knowledge gained. Here is an apparently intelligent man, with a proper journalistic job, who has adopted a pro-EU ideology to the extent he makes completely insane statements.

    It's fascinating and enlightening to see.

    The whole bizarre mindset of ultra-Remoaners will become an important area of psychiatric investigation in decades to come. I am serious.
    True, yet Keating's insanity extends well beyond matters EU.

    I made the schoolboy error of observing his Twitter feed the other day. There's one gem in there where he is questioning Europe's 'obsession' (or words to that effect) with vaccines, arguing that South Korea has managed to defeat Covid through rapid testing alone.

    He is a whole new breed of bonkers.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157

    HYUFD said:

    That poll would see the SNP on 64 seats ie short of the 65 needed for a majority and thus allow Boris to easily dismiss Sturgeon's calls for indyref2 which he certainly will

    Ah yes. This post again.
    I do wonder what would happen if Mr Johynson wins the next Westminster election with a reduced majority. Should we therefore ban him from passing any new legislation, or voting against opposition proposals?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Ooft, more mixed than I'd have expected. Still, at least it can be said a Scottish republic is supported by half of Scottish voters across the board.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1372509976762187776?s=20
    Since when was 39% half?
    When you count those who actually vote. = 50%.
    No, it is 39% with a large number of undecideds
    HYUFD in 'only 39% of Scots voters support the monarchy' shock admission!
    Actually Scots by 50% to 33% with Yougov earlier this month support the monarchy, the one consistency is even fewer Scots back a republic than back independence
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/rwltuoo339/Attitudes to monarchy.pdf
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Yes voters are anti-Scottish then?

    The Queen is half-Scottish, and her line descends from the Hanoverian protestant line of the Stuarts - a Scottish royal dynasty.
    I think the blood and soil lineage thing is a bit old hat. Unless you count Galloway (and his old hat).

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1372281806255497218?s=20
    Humza is the vile guy here, isn't he?

    Listen to the way he spits the word WHITE, with contempt and hatred:


    https://twitter.com/Iainmackay8/status/1370153346116501513?s=20

    If there is a racist in this ding-dong, I suggest it is Humza Yousef
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620
    edited March 2021
    HYUFD said:

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Ooft, more mixed than I'd have expected. Still, at least it can be said a Scottish republic is supported by half of Scottish voters across the board.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1372509976762187776?s=20
    Since when was 39% half?

    Deleted. Post intended for Union.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Ooft, more mixed than I'd have expected. Still, at least it can be said a Scottish republic is supported by half of Scottish voters across the board.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1372509976762187776?s=20

    I was going to say, I think Indy Scots Monarchism is a thing. It may not be the dominant credo but it's a significant minority in my experience. See also, Scotland remaining part of the Commonwealth post Indy (whether with or without a monarch).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    That poll would see the SNP on 64 seats ie short of the 65 needed for a majority and thus allow Boris to easily dismiss Sturgeon's calls for indyref2 which he certainly will

    Ah yes. This post again.
    I do wonder what would happen if Mr Johynson wins the next Westminster election with a reduced majority. Should we therefore ban him from passing any new legislation, or voting against opposition proposals?
    Westminster is sovereign across the UK and has been since 1707 so tough, under the Scotland Act 1998 there can be no change to the Union without UK government consent.

    A reduced Tory majority is also not no Tory majority at all as this poll predicts no SNP majority at all
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,288
    On thread. Rather an an achievement by the Govt, I rather think its a dis-achievement (if there is such a word) by the opposition who are so unutterably crap it barely is credible. All their leaders since Blair have been crap .. Brown (awful) Miliband just crap Corbyn(a gift to the Tories) and Starmer is.. crap.....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,756
    Leon said:

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Yes voters are anti-Scottish then?

    The Queen is half-Scottish, and her line descends from the Hanoverian protestant line of the Stuarts - a Scottish royal dynasty.
    I think the blood and soil lineage thing is a bit old hat. Unless you count Galloway (and his old hat).

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1372281806255497218?s=20
    Humza is the vile guy here, isn't he?

    Listen to the way he spits the word WHITE, with contempt and hatred:


    https://twitter.com/Iainmackay8/status/1370153346116501513?s=20

    If there is a racist in this ding-dong, I suggest it is Humza Yousef
    Fair play, the one thing all your identities have had in common is a nuanced and subtle appreciation of racial politics.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620
    Leon said:

    Actually, perhaps we should simply bomb this guy (in a non-lethal way, natch). FBPE-er Mike Galsworthy


    https://twitter.com/march_change/status/1372471014408531971?s=20


    He accuses the UK of "gold plated vaccine nationalism", and says we are hoarding vaccines, whereas the EU has delivered vaccines to us "with love"

    I am not kidding. WITH LOVE. The EU has kindly given us THEIR vaccines because they LOVE US, whereas the British "on their little island", are just evil etc etc etc etc. He doesn't touch on the fact we have these vaccines for the reasons everyone knows: we invested sooner, paid more, got better contracts, helped the manufacturers.

    Nor does he mention that the EU "which LOVES us", has been trashing the UK vaccine even as it seeks to ban vaccine export and steal some from us at the same time.

    This is on the same scale of derangement as Keating. I really believe it is a genuine psychological affliction, like, say, Stockholm syndrome, but it just has not been diagnosed and named yet. This will happen, soon.

    Strasbourg syndrome?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,257
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:


    DougSeal said:

    Apologies for Comedy Dave, but this is a classic. He ponders whether the UK's success in vaccine procurement has been "worth the diplomatic damage".
    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372504806858895360

    This guy is a piss-poor commentator but the joke of reposting him is starting to wear a little bit thin.
    Indeed. There seems to be a culture on PB which runs like this: Hey, look, isn't this guy a moron?

    Yes, we all know he's a moron.

    Let's post some more moronic stuff from him to reiterate how much of a moron he is.

    No thanks.

    Here you go!
    He is worth studying for the medical knowledge gained. Here is an apparently intelligent man, with a proper journalistic job, who has adopted a pro-EU ideology to the extent he makes completely insane statements.

    It's fascinating and enlightening to see.

    The whole bizarre mindset of ultra-Remoaners will become an important area of psychiatric investigation in decades to come. I am serious.
    Saw on the thread last night that you are doing most of your posts from bed. Not sure how I feel about that.
    'posts' - is that the slang term for those artisanal flint thingummies?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304

    Leon said:

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Yes voters are anti-Scottish then?

    The Queen is half-Scottish, and her line descends from the Hanoverian protestant line of the Stuarts - a Scottish royal dynasty.
    I think the blood and soil lineage thing is a bit old hat. Unless you count Galloway (and his old hat).

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1372281806255497218?s=20
    Humza is the vile guy here, isn't he?

    Listen to the way he spits the word WHITE, with contempt and hatred:


    https://twitter.com/Iainmackay8/status/1370153346116501513?s=20

    If there is a racist in this ding-dong, I suggest it is Humza Yousef
    Fair play, the one thing all your identities have had in common is a nuanced and subtle appreciation of racial politics.
    malcomg, WHITE, theuniondivvie, WHITE, carnyx, WHITE, 95% of Scots, WHITE


    He hates all you lot, as well. Just so you know. He doesn't even try to hide it
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    That guy who partially cashed out will be breathing a big relief now.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Ooft, more mixed than I'd have expected. Still, at least it can be said a Scottish republic is supported by half of Scottish voters across the board.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1372509976762187776?s=20
    Since when was 39% half?
    When you count those who actually vote. = 50%.
    No, it is 39% with a large number of undecideds
    HYUFD in 'only 39% of Scots voters support the monarchy' shock admission!
    Actually Scots by 50% to 33% with Yougov earlier this month support the monarchy, the one consistency is even fewer Scots back a republic than back independence
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/rwltuoo339/Attitudes to monarchy.pdf
    Subsample alert
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think we can safely say this will be a pretty close Nat-Yoon correlation.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1372529444133474313?s=20

    Yes voters are anti-Scottish then?

    The Queen is half-Scottish, and her line descends from the Hanoverian protestant line of the Stuarts - a Scottish royal dynasty.
    I think the blood and soil lineage thing is a bit old hat. Unless you count Galloway (and his old hat).

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1372281806255497218?s=20
    Humza is the vile guy here, isn't he?

    Listen to the way he spits the word WHITE, with contempt and hatred:


    https://twitter.com/Iainmackay8/status/1370153346116501513?s=20

    If there is a racist in this ding-dong, I suggest it is Humza Yousef
    Fair play, the one thing all your identities have had in common is a nuanced and subtle appreciation of racial politics.
    malcomg, WHITE, theuniondivvie, WHITE, carnyx, WHITE, 95% of Scots, WHITE


    He hates all you lot, as well. Just so you know. He doesn't even try to hide it
    Even on your stats, there's a 14.35% chance we're not all white (1 minus 0.95 cubed).
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,351
    edited March 2021

    HYUFD said:

    That poll would see the SNP on 64 seats ie short of the 65 needed for a majority and thus allow Boris to easily dismiss Sturgeon's calls for indyref2 which he certainly will

    Ah yes. This post again.
    The problem is slightly more subtle than that. The SNP/Greens will very likely end up running Scotland, and for lots of Scots that's fine - including some Scots who don't actually want independence at all, and some who want it but never actually now.

    The rest of us don't worry that much who runs Scotland - they are running a population about the same as Yorkshire, and we don't mind much about who runs them either. It's a local matter.

    The issue is whether the nats/separatists do well enough to be pretty sure that if they take the risk of Ref2 they will win. And for that in the current climate IMHO they need to win bigly, and to have consistent 'Leave' polling in the upper 50s 60+ bracket.

    Boris may have the interesting problem of whether to do their dirty work for them by saying 'No'. If support looks about 50% he may be tempted to say 'Yes'. And then what a pickle we shall watch.

  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Leon said:


    DougSeal said:

    Apologies for Comedy Dave, but this is a classic. He ponders whether the UK's success in vaccine procurement has been "worth the diplomatic damage".
    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372504806858895360

    This guy is a piss-poor commentator but the joke of reposting him is starting to wear a little bit thin.
    Indeed. There seems to be a culture on PB which runs like this: Hey, look, isn't this guy a moron?

    Yes, we all know he's a moron.

    Let's post some more moronic stuff from him to reiterate how much of a moron he is.

    No thanks.

    Here you go!
    He is worth studying for the medical knowledge gained. Here is an apparently intelligent man, with a proper journalistic job, who has adopted a pro-EU ideology to the extent he makes completely insane statements.

    It's fascinating and enlightening to see.

    The whole bizarre mindset of ultra-Remoaners will become an important area of psychiatric investigation in decades to come. I am serious.
    True, yet Keating's insanity extends well beyond matters EU.

    I made the schoolboy error of observing his Twitter feed the other day. There's one gem in there where he is questioning Europe's 'obsession' (or words to that effect) with vaccines, arguing that South Korea has managed to defeat Covid through rapid testing alone.

    He is a whole new breed of bonkers.
    I don't think he started off bonkers but something has definitely driven him that way as he seems almost obsessed by something yet isn't actually looking at the big picture.

    Which is the very first thing I would have thought a journalist would be doing
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Well done that bloke who took the partial cashout on Envoi Allen winning the Marsh.

    £250k up for a fiver.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304

    Leon said:

    Actually, perhaps we should simply bomb this guy (in a non-lethal way, natch). FBPE-er Mike Galsworthy


    https://twitter.com/march_change/status/1372471014408531971?s=20


    He accuses the UK of "gold plated vaccine nationalism", and says we are hoarding vaccines, whereas the EU has delivered vaccines to us "with love"

    I am not kidding. WITH LOVE. The EU has kindly given us THEIR vaccines because they LOVE US, whereas the British "on their little island", are just evil etc etc etc etc. He doesn't touch on the fact we have these vaccines for the reasons everyone knows: we invested sooner, paid more, got better contracts, helped the manufacturers.

    Nor does he mention that the EU "which LOVES us", has been trashing the UK vaccine even as it seeks to ban vaccine export and steal some from us at the same time.

    This is on the same scale of derangement as Keating. I really believe it is a genuine psychological affliction, like, say, Stockholm syndrome, but it just has not been diagnosed and named yet. This will happen, soon.

    Strasbourg syndrome?
    Very good!

    Yes, I agree, that's an excellent term. I suggest the PB Dictionary be amended to include the phrase "Strasbourg Syndrome", alongside the other classics, lagershed, Rogerdamus, OGH, Baxtered, and so on.

    It's much better than Brexit Derangement Syndrome as that sounds a bit wanky and polemical, and is too long, and the initialism BDS is silly,

    Strasbourg Syndrome. Ace. How do we explicitly define it? Perhaps like this: the mental dislocation which follows a radical political change, which means you develop more allegiance to particular foreign powers than you do to your own nation. In extreme cases this can mean inviting death and disease on your countrymen, in order that the foreign powers are not discomfited or made to look bad.

    I am pretty sure that if ever Scotland goes indy a few Scots will get Strasbourg Syndrome vis a vis London. They will be so angry and bitter they will lose their minds like Keating and Galsworthy.

    I wonder if the Syndrome has been seen elsewhere in history?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, perhaps we should simply bomb this guy (in a non-lethal way, natch). FBPE-er Mike Galsworthy


    https://twitter.com/march_change/status/1372471014408531971?s=20


    He accuses the UK of "gold plated vaccine nationalism", and says we are hoarding vaccines, whereas the EU has delivered vaccines to us "with love"

    I am not kidding. WITH LOVE. The EU has kindly given us THEIR vaccines because they LOVE US, whereas the British "on their little island", are just evil etc etc etc etc. He doesn't touch on the fact we have these vaccines for the reasons everyone knows: we invested sooner, paid more, got better contracts, helped the manufacturers.

    Nor does he mention that the EU "which LOVES us", has been trashing the UK vaccine even as it seeks to ban vaccine export and steal some from us at the same time.

    This is on the same scale of derangement as Keating. I really believe it is a genuine psychological affliction, like, say, Stockholm syndrome, but it just has not been diagnosed and named yet. This will happen, soon.

    Strasbourg syndrome?
    Very good!

    Yes, I agree, that's an excellent term. I suggest the PB Dictionary be amended to include the phrase "Strasbourg Syndrome", alongside the other classics, lagershed, Rogerdamus, OGH, Baxtered, and so on.

    It's much better than Brexit Derangement Syndrome as that sounds a bit wanky and polemical, and is too long, and the initialism BDS is silly,

    Strasbourg Syndrome. Ace. How do we explicitly define it? Perhaps like this: the mental dislocation which follows a radical political change, which means you develop more allegiance to particular foreign powers than you do to your own nation. In extreme cases this can mean inviting death and disease on your countrymen, in order that the foreign powers are not discomfited or made to look bad.

    I am pretty sure that if ever Scotland goes indy a few Scots will get Strasbourg Syndrome vis a vis London. They will be so angry and bitter they will lose their minds like Keating and Galsworthy.

    I wonder if the Syndrome has been seen elsewhere in history?
    Undoubtedly cases after independence in some of the ex-Imperial nations.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304
    One interesting thing about Strasbourg Syndrome is that it does not spare the more intelligent and educated, indeed there is some evidence that smarter people are more likely to suffer (perhaps because they are politically aware?)

    A C Grayling springs immediately to mind. An actual philosopher. Driven completely and obviously mad.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    TOPPING said:

    Well done that bloke who took the partial cashout on Envoi Allen winning the Marsh.

    £250k up for a fiver.

    Shan Blue might have been the best horse in the race, Harry Skelton definitely wasn't the best jockey.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, perhaps we should simply bomb this guy (in a non-lethal way, natch). FBPE-er Mike Galsworthy


    https://twitter.com/march_change/status/1372471014408531971?s=20


    He accuses the UK of "gold plated vaccine nationalism", and says we are hoarding vaccines, whereas the EU has delivered vaccines to us "with love"

    I am not kidding. WITH LOVE. The EU has kindly given us THEIR vaccines because they LOVE US, whereas the British "on their little island", are just evil etc etc etc etc. He doesn't touch on the fact we have these vaccines for the reasons everyone knows: we invested sooner, paid more, got better contracts, helped the manufacturers.

    Nor does he mention that the EU "which LOVES us", has been trashing the UK vaccine even as it seeks to ban vaccine export and steal some from us at the same time.

    This is on the same scale of derangement as Keating. I really believe it is a genuine psychological affliction, like, say, Stockholm syndrome, but it just has not been diagnosed and named yet. This will happen, soon.

    Strasbourg syndrome?
    Very good!

    Yes, I agree, that's an excellent term. I suggest the PB Dictionary be amended to include the phrase "Strasbourg Syndrome", alongside the other classics, lagershed, Rogerdamus, OGH, Baxtered, and so on.

    It's much better than Brexit Derangement Syndrome as that sounds a bit wanky and polemical, and is too long, and the initialism BDS is silly,

    Strasbourg Syndrome. Ace. How do we explicitly define it? Perhaps like this: the mental dislocation which follows a radical political change, which means you develop more allegiance to particular foreign powers than you do to your own nation. In extreme cases this can mean inviting death and disease on your countrymen, in order that the foreign powers are not discomfited or made to look bad.

    I am pretty sure that if ever Scotland goes indy a few Scots will get Strasbourg Syndrome vis a vis London. They will be so angry and bitter they will lose their minds like Keating and Galsworthy.

    I wonder if the Syndrome has been seen elsewhere in history?
    Undoubtedly cases after independence in some of the ex-Imperial nations.
    Protestants in Eire after the Civil War, for sure
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304
    Another super bright bloke with Strasbourg Syndrome: Alistair Meeks
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    Leon said:

    Actually, perhaps we should simply bomb this guy (in a non-lethal way, natch). FBPE-er Mike Galsworthy


    https://twitter.com/march_change/status/1372471014408531971?s=20


    He accuses the UK of "gold plated vaccine nationalism", and says we are hoarding vaccines, whereas the EU has delivered vaccines to us "with love"

    I am not kidding. WITH LOVE. The EU has kindly given us THEIR vaccines because they LOVE US, whereas the British "on their little island", are just evil etc etc etc etc. He doesn't touch on the fact we have these vaccines for the reasons everyone knows: we invested sooner, paid more, got better contracts, helped the manufacturers.

    Nor does he mention that the EU "which LOVES us", has been trashing the UK vaccine even as it seeks to ban vaccine export and steal some from us at the same time.

    This is on the same scale of derangement as Keating. I really believe it is a genuine psychological affliction, like, say, Stockholm syndrome, but it just has not been diagnosed and named yet. This will happen, soon.

    Strasbourg syndrome?
    Probably. Check Comedy Dave's replies and he's usually there gushing with praise.
  • AEP Telegraph:

    "my hunch is that the first year of independence will be much better than almost anybody expected."

    Indeed. It looks very likely!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    "Matt Hancock finally confirms India IS behind vaccine delay: Delhi government blocks 4million doses to prioritise its own needs and there could be more shortfalls - but ministers insist it WON'T delay end of lockdown

    Serum Institute of India has been told it must supply its own citizens before exporting vaccines
    One batch of five million doses of the AstraZeneca jab bound for the UK has been delayed by a month
    Ministers insist the UK is 'still on track' to hit April and July targets, and people due a second dose will get one
    But hiccup means plans to expand jabs to under-50s have been put on ice until May at the earliest"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9375499/Coronavirus-UK-Vaccine-hold-caused-AstraZeneca-delivery-delay-Indian-factory.html#comments
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    IanB2 said:

    Have we covered this? It's an interesting hypothesis which might conceivably explain why the blood-clotting issue hasn't been seen here or in the clinical trials, but has apparently happened in a few cases on the continent:

    https://twitter.com/jacobgorm/status/1372324835930558470

    Does it explain what the bad technique involves?

    Given that we have rounded up volunteers from here there and everywhere, it would be surprising if all of their technique was perfect
    Google translate does a pretty good job on translating the article:

    Corona vaccines must be injected deep into the muscle, it is called intramuscularly. This means that the skin must first be stretched out before the needle is inserted, which is also stated in the Danish Health and Medicines Authority's guidelines. To make sure that the needle does not stick into the blood vessels or damage them, you should pull the plunger back a little to see if there is blood involved. If this happens, stick to another location.

    However, Niels Høiby has been able to state that this does not always happen. The fact that citizens' skin has instead, for example, been squeezed between the index finger and thumb before the vaccination, which in extremely rare cases can have fatal consequences.

    One thing i thought was indicative of the possibility of something like this is that the the Norwegian cases were reported as a "cluster". There's no reason at all for a cluster to indicate a fundamental problem with the vaccine, in the absence of significant numbers of isolated cases (which due to statistical variation will then sometimes produce a cluster). A cluster on its own (if actually linked to the vaccine in some way) is actually far more likely to be indicative of something either being wrong with a single batch, or something wrong in it's application.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Well done that bloke who took the partial cashout on Envoi Allen winning the Marsh.

    £250k up for a fiver.

    Shan Blue might have been the best horse in the race, Harry Skelton definitely wasn't the best jockey.
    I didn't see the race how did Envoi Allen tip up?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304
    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Hancock finally confirms India IS behind vaccine delay: Delhi government blocks 4million doses to prioritise its own needs and there could be more shortfalls - but ministers insist it WON'T delay end of lockdown

    Serum Institute of India has been told it must supply its own citizens before exporting vaccines
    One batch of five million doses of the AstraZeneca jab bound for the UK has been delayed by a month
    Ministers insist the UK is 'still on track' to hit April and July targets, and people due a second dose will get one
    But hiccup means plans to expand jabs to under-50s have been put on ice until May at the earliest"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9375499/Coronavirus-UK-Vaccine-hold-caused-AstraZeneca-delivery-delay-Indian-factory.html#comments

    "May at the earliest" is not a pleasing phrase. Let us hope MaxPB's optimism is vindicated

    Hmpft
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304
    And this. FFS

    "A member of the UK's vaccine advisory group the JCVI, Professor Adam Finn, suggested the [unlockdowning] roadmap could be impacted by the hold-up. He said on Radio 4: 'The next phase – phase two – may kick off slightly later than we’d optimistically hoped.'"

    Jesus effing Christ
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Hancock finally confirms India IS behind vaccine delay: Delhi government blocks 4million doses to prioritise its own needs and there could be more shortfalls - but ministers insist it WON'T delay end of lockdown

    Serum Institute of India has been told it must supply its own citizens before exporting vaccines
    One batch of five million doses of the AstraZeneca jab bound for the UK has been delayed by a month
    Ministers insist the UK is 'still on track' to hit April and July targets, and people due a second dose will get one
    But hiccup means plans to expand jabs to under-50s have been put on ice until May at the earliest"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9375499/Coronavirus-UK-Vaccine-hold-caused-AstraZeneca-delivery-delay-Indian-factory.html#comments

    Bloody Hell I thought it was the US blocking ingredients. Now India as well.

    How many battalions does PB have? They are likely to be busy these coming weeks and months.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,590

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Have we covered this? It's an interesting hypothesis which might conceivably explain why the blood-clotting issue hasn't been seen here or in the clinical trials, but has apparently happened in a few cases on the continent:

    https://twitter.com/jacobgorm/status/1372324835930558470

    Does it explain what the bad technique involves?

    Given that we have rounded up volunteers from here there and everywhere, it would be surprising if all of their technique was perfect
    Yes, it describes how some giving the injection were pinching rather than stretching the skin where the needle was inserted, which made it slightly more likely that the shot would go into a small vein rather than the shoulder muscle.
    (It's also practice for intramuscular injection to withdraw the plunger slightly first, to see if you draw blood from a vein, but this is often omitted, as I understand it.)

    It's quite likely that some our medics/nurses have made similar errors - but even with accidental intravenous injection, the likelihood of such severe side effects is still very low indeed.
    My impression is that training has been thorough, and preparation good.

    Also in the UK, volunteers have been heavily sought from eg St John's Ambulance.

    My injection was certainly "long needle, right angle and deep in the muscle pad", a it should be.

    But UK dist. infrastructure was the one where Hancock said "I don't care - do it now, I want to be ready" months in advance. That may account for some difference.
    No doubt - but also little doubt that similar errors still happen here.
    (Anecdata ... one of my family was less than complementary about the squaddie who jabbed him.)
    The strange clotting incidents (as opposed to the normal background ones) seem to have been mostly in women, though. If it was just technique, why would that be?
    It's clearly not just technique.
    The suggestion is that it might be a contributory factor - possibly a necessary contributory factor for this particular condition.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265
    FT article (paywall) on a US-UK trade deal:

    https://www.ft.com/content/977f0dd8-dcb2-4538-98e7-5a54ab6d5fde

    Summary: don't hold your breath, because Congress is KEENLY interested in the resolution of the Northern Ireland trade issue.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,590
    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Well done that bloke who took the partial cashout on Envoi Allen winning the Marsh.

    £250k up for a fiver.

    Shan Blue might have been the best horse in the race, Harry Skelton definitely wasn't the best jockey.
    Was that the one I had my free £1 bet on ?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,631

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304
    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    And the Aussies are NOT happy. They are also expecting 1m doses from the EU to go to Papua New Guinea, where the virus is raging, and risking mutation.

    That's the next stramash down the line, if the EU continues to be arsey

    And yeah I am happy to criticise the Americans if they blocked lawfully contracted exports. Indeed I am happy to criticise them even if they didn't. Stupid obese twits.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,153
    Leon said:

    And this. FFS

    "A member of the UK's vaccine advisory group the JCVI, Professor Adam Finn, suggested the [unlockdowning] roadmap could be impacted by the hold-up. He said on Radio 4: 'The next phase – phase two – may kick off slightly later than we’d optimistically hoped.'"

    Jesus effing Christ

    The lockdown release timetable was prepared on the basis of a. all over 50s receiving a first dose by 15 April and b. all adults receiving a first dose by 31 July.

    Neither of these will be affected by the hold up. Instead it means that optimistic talk of all adults being vaccinated by end May or even end April won't now happen. But it will probably still be achieved before end July.

    So no justification to delay the unlocking.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304
    TOPPING said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    It was Italy, not the EU.

    The EU seems to be the only major continental "power" that hasn't blocked vaccines.

    But yep throw them in as well. PB armchair generals now have a war on three fronts - US, India and the EU.

    Good luck.
    Also Scotland. Don't forget Scotland. We must always be ready to send our soldiers north, over Hadrian's, fortified with hot broth
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,461
    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    Italy is not the EU. Still no-one has criticised the US export ban using legislation designed for the Korean war which is blocking UK vaccines arriving on time.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    UK did nearly 45% of reported jabs yesterday:

    https://www.politico.eu/coronavirus-in-europe/


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286

    FT article (paywall) on a US-UK trade deal:

    https://www.ft.com/content/977f0dd8-dcb2-4538-98e7-5a54ab6d5fde

    Summary: don't hold your breath, because Congress is KEENLY interested in the resolution of the Northern Ireland trade issue.

    Anyone can read it by googling the title of the article.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,304

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    Italy is not the EU. Still no-one has criticised the US export ban using legislation designed for the Korean war which is blocking UK vaccines arriving on time.
    It was ultimately the EU, not Italy.

    Italy used a special new EU law, which allowed Italy to do this. An EU law made by the EU Commission and passed by the EU Parliament to defend the EU's vaccine supplies - it was just first applied in Italy.


    How odd that you and Topping should seek to avert blame from the EU

    "Italy is the first EU country to use the bloc's new regulations allowing exports to be stopped if the company providing the vaccines has failed to meet its obligations to the EU."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202#:~:text=The decision affects 250,000 doses,its obligations to the EU.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I presume Leon will be calling for the circling bombers to be redirected from Europe to India to go on a carpet bombing run....

    As I pointed out earlier, the Indian delay is due a ban on exports of vaccine ingredients from the US. Unsurprisingly all those piling on the EU for talking about such restrictions have no interest in criticising the US for actually doing so.
    The EU hasnt talked about it they have done it ask australia
    And the Aussies are NOT happy. They are also expecting 1m doses from the EU to go to Papua New Guinea, where the virus is raging, and risking mutation.

    That's the next stramash down the line, if the EU continues to be arsey

    And yeah I am happy to criticise the Americans if they blocked lawfully contracted exports. Indeed I am happy to criticise them even if they didn't. Stupid obese twits.
    This not happy?

    "Prime Minister Scott Morrison said while he had requested the review, he could also understand why Italy made the decision."
This discussion has been closed.