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Is this Trump’s legacy – Republican voters significantly less likely to follow COVID guidelines than

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Rolling rate of 1238 in Wetherby. Covid in the prison maybe ?
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Anil Bhoyrul
    Why is it racist to wonder what skin colour your child will have?"

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-it-racist-to-wonder-what-skin-colour-your-child-will-have-

    It isn't racist for a mother and father to talk about what their child is going to be like obviously. What may be racist is somebody (related or not) discussing whether or not they should change the rules about grandchildren of the monarch becoming an automatic Prince and commenting about possible skin colour in the same conversation, maybe.
    Mrs Ed reckons it's Prince William who said this. I think that's a decent bet.
    Either Wills or Daddy. That's why Harry is speaking to neither much on the phone.
    William told Harry he was making a mistake in marrying Meghan. Harry (understandably) sided with his fiancée as was.
    You're someone I listen to very closely on those matters because, given the circles you move in, you know what you're talking about.

    But, if that was the case, how come he was still the best man and they both seemed ok together on the day?

    Papering over the cracks?
    Because your brother is getting married and wants you to be his best man
    Surely if your brother is marrying someone you consider to be a mistake you abstain
    They aren't the labour party....
    While I appreciate the party political point....I was actually being quite serious. If I am so sure someone is wrong for a friend I will tell them so and abstain from the wedding. (Not sure I would be able to resist the "If anyone knows why these two should not be married speak now or forever hold your peace" bit). Only done it once All his friends had serious reservations about it but went to the wedding 10 years ago. Lasted 3 years in which time she drove all his old friends away before running off with someone. Only one that he still speaks to now is me because all he needed to say was "should have listened to you" whereas he spent 3 years defending her actions to all his other friends and they want no more to do with him. Yes he didnt speak to me for 3 years but....
    The day I started dating my best friend's older sister he warned me I was making the biggest mistake of my life. I thought he was joking (besides I was going to get laid!) until a couple of months before we were due to get married and I came home early from a rig....

    He is still my best friend.
    Better to speak truth and be damned than lie and be damned
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,378
    OT The Sun reports: THE Royal Navy’s fleet is to shrink to an all-time low — despite the PM’s vow to make Britain Europe’s foremost naval power.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14302215/royal-navy-fleet-historic-low/
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    AnneJGP said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: EU taking legal action against the UK over vaccines.

    Absurd. On what grounds?
    UvdL: "We need grounds?"
    I'm sure it is as clear as those contracts that didn't say what she said. Or the command structure which allowed Article 16 to be accidentally invoked.

    I think they owe Boris a favour, and want to make him look good.
    I don't understand why the EU want the UK to provide them with the vaccines that are produced here, because their people won't accept the AZ vaccines they've already got.
    Because if they have them in their vaults stored safe we can't inject them into british arms and won't outrun them on vaccinations so fast
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    AnneJGP said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: EU taking legal action against the UK over vaccines.

    Absurd. On what grounds?
    UvdL: "We need grounds?"
    I'm sure it is as clear as those contracts that didn't say what she said. Or the command structure which allowed Article 16 to be accidentally invoked.

    I think they owe Boris a favour, and want to make him look good.
    I don't understand why the EU want the UK to provide them with the vaccines that are produced here, because their people won't accept the AZ vaccines they've already got.
    They want a fight with us - anything will do
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,965
    edited March 2021

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:


    Actually the worst Tory leader was neither, May or IDS may not have won an election but neither lost one either.

    The worst Tory leader was actually Hague who led the Tories to a landslide defeat in 2001 without any victories to compensate, Major for instance had 1997 but he also had his 1992 win too.

    In fact he was so bad I believe you even voted Labour in 2001 (some of us of course stayed loyal however even in the bad times!)

    Hague is a great orator and author and reasonable Foreign Secretary but was a hopeless leader

    Yep. His election campaign was dismal. An insouciant belief the voters would "see sense" and vote Tory again.
    And Europe, immigration and tax. Utterly out of tune with the times.
    (Interior quotes snipped owing to Vanilla's length limit.)

    Hague's concentration on saving the pound is noteworthy for two reasons. First, Gordon Brown had already saved it. Second, it was later claimed that CCHQ (or probably Central Office at the time) pressure on constituency parties prevented feedback on how badly it went down with the public.
    Tone deaf.
    Mind you he did increase the Tory seats from 165 to 166.
    The equivalent of taking 4 years to try to scale Everest and getting as far as your own front door.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    edited March 2021
    AnneJGP said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: EU taking legal action against the UK over vaccines.

    Absurd. On what grounds?
    UvdL: "We need grounds?"
    I'm sure it is as clear as those contracts that didn't say what she said. Or the command structure which allowed Article 16 to be accidentally invoked.

    I think they owe Boris a favour, and want to make him look good.
    I don't understand why the EU want the UK to provide them with the vaccines that are produced here, because their people won't accept the AZ vaccines they've already got.
    It's not about getting more vaccines. They already have more than they are using at present, and as rcs1000 has noted before there will be lots of vaccines available soon (and the EU has big orders, albeit some will be slower arriving than they'd like).

    Despite protests that everything they did was great, the plausible remaining explanation is that they are feeling the heat for the rollout, and distraction works. You make a big claim, or legal action, you stick by it for a little while, and then when you step it back it doesn't matter, as the public view remembers the initial claims.

    Or, more succinctly
    Floater said:

    AnneJGP said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: EU taking legal action against the UK over vaccines.

    Absurd. On what grounds?
    UvdL: "We need grounds?"
    I'm sure it is as clear as those contracts that didn't say what she said. Or the command structure which allowed Article 16 to be accidentally invoked.

    I think they owe Boris a favour, and want to make him look good.
    I don't understand why the EU want the UK to provide them with the vaccines that are produced here, because their people won't accept the AZ vaccines they've already got.
    They want a fight with us - anything will do
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,999
    edited March 2021
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:


    Actually the worst Tory leader was neither, May or IDS may not have won an election but neither lost one either.

    The worst Tory leader was actually Hague who led the Tories to a landslide defeat in 2001 without any victories to compensate, Major for instance had 1997 but he also had his 1992 win too.

    In fact he was so bad I believe you even voted Labour in 2001 (some of us of course stayed loyal however even in the bad times!)

    Hague is a great orator and author and reasonable Foreign Secretary but was a hopeless leader

    Yep. His election campaign was dismal. An insouciant belief the voters would "see sense" and vote Tory again.
    And Europe, immigration and tax. Utterly out of tune with the times.
    (Interior quotes snipped owing to Vanilla's length limit.)

    Hague's concentration on saving the pound is noteworthy for two reasons. First, Gordon Brown had already saved it. Second, it was later claimed that CCHQ (or probably Central Office at the time) pressure on constituency parties prevented feedback on how badly it went down with the public.
    Tone deaf.
    Mind you he did increase the Tory seats from 165 to 166.
    The equivalent of taking 4 years to try to scale Everest and getting as far as your own front door.
    Yes Hague was the worst Tory leader since the Duke of Wellington who was trounced in 1832 after blocking the Reform Act. Wellington had beaten Napoleon at Waterloo though so his political career was a bit of an afterthought, his place in history already assured
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:


    Actually the worst Tory leader was neither, May or IDS may not have won an election but neither lost one either.

    The worst Tory leader was actually Hague who led the Tories to a landslide defeat in 2001 without any victories to compensate, Major for instance had 1997 but he also had his 1992 win too.

    In fact he was so bad I believe you even voted Labour in 2001 (some of us of course stayed loyal however even in the bad times!)

    Hague is a great orator and author and reasonable Foreign Secretary but was a hopeless leader

    Yep. His election campaign was dismal. An insouciant belief the voters would "see sense" and vote Tory again.
    And Europe, immigration and tax. Utterly out of tune with the times.
    (Interior quotes snipped owing to Vanilla's length limit.)

    Hague's concentration on saving the pound is noteworthy for two reasons. First, Gordon Brown had already saved it. Second, it was later claimed that CCHQ (or probably Central Office at the time) pressure on constituency parties prevented feedback on how badly it went down with the public.
    Tone deaf.
    Mind you he did increase the Tory seats from 165 to 166.
    The equivalent of taking 4 years to try to scale Everest and getting as far as your own front door.
    But sadly that 1 seat gain was Patrick Mercer...
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    Floater said:

    AnneJGP said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: EU taking legal action against the UK over vaccines.

    Absurd. On what grounds?
    UvdL: "We need grounds?"
    I'm sure it is as clear as those contracts that didn't say what she said. Or the command structure which allowed Article 16 to be accidentally invoked.

    I think they owe Boris a favour, and want to make him look good.
    I don't understand why the EU want the UK to provide them with the vaccines that are produced here, because their people won't accept the AZ vaccines they've already got.
    They want a fight with us - anything will do
    Well that's what the Tories have been doing for years.

    Bounce in polls every time.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    Floater said:

    AnneJGP said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: EU taking legal action against the UK over vaccines.

    Absurd. On what grounds?
    UvdL: "We need grounds?"
    I'm sure it is as clear as those contracts that didn't say what she said. Or the command structure which allowed Article 16 to be accidentally invoked.

    I think they owe Boris a favour, and want to make him look good.
    I don't understand why the EU want the UK to provide them with the vaccines that are produced here, because their people won't accept the AZ vaccines they've already got.
    They want a fight with us - anything will do
    Well that's what the Tories have been doing for years.

    Bounce in polls every time.
    Yes, the EU know what they are doing, and it works. But it's wrong whoever does it. Especially as on this issue, people will die because of the collateral damage of a loss of trust in AZ's product that has been a result. So it is worse than most of the times the Tories have done it.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Meghan clearly has powers that other mortals can only dream of. How do I make it so that people check with me before they say things?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060

    Floater said:

    AnneJGP said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: EU taking legal action against the UK over vaccines.

    Absurd. On what grounds?
    UvdL: "We need grounds?"
    I'm sure it is as clear as those contracts that didn't say what she said. Or the command structure which allowed Article 16 to be accidentally invoked.

    I think they owe Boris a favour, and want to make him look good.
    I don't understand why the EU want the UK to provide them with the vaccines that are produced here, because their people won't accept the AZ vaccines they've already got.
    They want a fight with us - anything will do
    Well that's what the Tories have been doing for years.

    Bounce in polls every time.
    Do you think the European Commission will get a bounce in the polls? :)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    rcs1000 said:

    Meghan clearly has powers that other mortals can only dream of. How do I make it so that people check with me before they say things?
    The working of the tweet is a bit weird like that, though the subheadng about 'given backing to' seems clearer it wasn't about allowing, but endorsing.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,999
    edited March 2021

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:


    Actually the worst Tory leader was neither, May or IDS may not have won an election but neither lost one either.

    The worst Tory leader was actually Hague who led the Tories to a landslide defeat in 2001 without any victories to compensate, Major for instance had 1997 but he also had his 1992 win too.

    In fact he was so bad I believe you even voted Labour in 2001 (some of us of course stayed loyal however even in the bad times!)

    Hague is a great orator and author and reasonable Foreign Secretary but was a hopeless leader

    Yep. His election campaign was dismal. An insouciant belief the voters would "see sense" and vote Tory again.
    And Europe, immigration and tax. Utterly out of tune with the times.
    (Interior quotes snipped owing to Vanilla's length limit.)

    Hague's concentration on saving the pound is noteworthy for two reasons. First, Gordon Brown had already saved it. Second, it was later claimed that CCHQ (or probably Central Office at the time) pressure on constituency parties prevented feedback on how badly it went down with the public.
    Tone deaf.
    Mind you he did increase the Tory seats from 165 to 166.
    The equivalent of taking 4 years to try to scale Everest and getting as far as your own front door.
    But sadly that 1 seat gain was Patrick Mercer...
    Andrew Rosindell gained Romford and Castle Point, Norfolk NW, Galloway and Upper Nithsdale, Upminster, Tatton, Isle of Wight and Taunton went blue too but there were also a few losses to the LDs such as Cheadle, Guildford and Ludlow and Norfolk North and Dorset South went Labour
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Floater said:

    AnneJGP said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: EU taking legal action against the UK over vaccines.

    Absurd. On what grounds?
    UvdL: "We need grounds?"
    I'm sure it is as clear as those contracts that didn't say what she said. Or the command structure which allowed Article 16 to be accidentally invoked.

    I think they owe Boris a favour, and want to make him look good.
    I don't understand why the EU want the UK to provide them with the vaccines that are produced here, because their people won't accept the AZ vaccines they've already got.
    They want a fight with us - anything will do
    I suppose that supplying places like Gibraltar doesn't count as exporting. (Does anyone know how Gibraltar's vaccination programme is going?)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    AnneJGP said:

    Floater said:

    AnneJGP said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: EU taking legal action against the UK over vaccines.

    Absurd. On what grounds?
    UvdL: "We need grounds?"
    I'm sure it is as clear as those contracts that didn't say what she said. Or the command structure which allowed Article 16 to be accidentally invoked.

    I think they owe Boris a favour, and want to make him look good.
    I don't understand why the EU want the UK to provide them with the vaccines that are produced here, because their people won't accept the AZ vaccines they've already got.
    They want a fight with us - anything will do
    I suppose that supplying places like Gibraltar doesn't count as exporting. (Does anyone know how Gibraltar's vaccination programme is going?)
    Very well
    https://twitter.com/GibraltarGov/status/1369666013806071811/photo/1
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    kle4 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Floater said:

    AnneJGP said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: EU taking legal action against the UK over vaccines.

    Absurd. On what grounds?
    UvdL: "We need grounds?"
    I'm sure it is as clear as those contracts that didn't say what she said. Or the command structure which allowed Article 16 to be accidentally invoked.

    I think they owe Boris a favour, and want to make him look good.
    I don't understand why the EU want the UK to provide them with the vaccines that are produced here, because their people won't accept the AZ vaccines they've already got.
    They want a fight with us - anything will do
    I suppose that supplying places like Gibraltar doesn't count as exporting. (Does anyone know how Gibraltar's vaccination programme is going?)
    Very well
    https://twitter.com/GibraltarGov/status/1369666013806071811/photo/1
    Thanks. They must be close to the end, if the population figure I just googled isn't too far adrift (33701 in 2019).
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060
    Trump has found a way to get around his twitter ban by issuing viral press releases.
    https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1369793211833741312
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334
    Pagan2 said:


    I personally believe the point of a friend is someone who will tell you the truth even if its not what you want to hear. I told him how I saw her and said therefore I cant attend the wedding in good conscience. He cut me off as was his right but that was amicable. His other friends who though the same gritted their teeth and one by one she burned them out of his life to the point they wouldn't forgive him for siding with her

    Can't really judge without knowing you, but I'd think that giving a friend frank advice is right, but refusing to attend the wedding is a bit strong - in the end it's his decision and the other side of giving frank advice to friends is accepting that they might not take it.

    Curiously, I've had some experience in both directions, with the same person. Many years ago, a very unworldly relative married an exotic dancer whom he'd met on a cruise. We could all see it didn't look very promising for either of them (think Dalai Lama and Mae West) and said basically "Are you sure?", but they were set on it and pressed ahead. They divorced a few months later, but I think he appreciated the family attending even though he knew our doubts. Some years later he declined to come to my wedding because he'd cast a horoscope and advised that it was doomed unless we shifted it an hour earlier. Clearly he had a right to believe in astrology, but I did feel that the boycott was pushing it.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    Trump has found a way to get around his twitter ban by issuing viral press releases.
    https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1369793211833741312

    Has there ever been a crasser individual? You just cannot look away.

    And for any credit he should get on this, you'd think even he would know the best way to make people not grateful is to tell them how grateful they should be.
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    Trump has found a way to get around his twitter ban by issuing viral press releases.
    https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1369793211833741312

    So AZN, Sputnik, the Chinese, the French and every other non-US vaccine is because of Trump. Who knew?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,965

    Trump has found a way to get around his twitter ban by issuing viral press releases.
    https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1369793211833741312

    Then please God, do us a favour and don't share them.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,984
    Trump is a loser and a laughing stock.

    Surprised normally sensible PBers like William continue to give him oxygen.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    dixiedean said:

    @RochdalePioneers.
    Best wishes. That is a heap of trouble all at once. Don't forget to look after yourself as you strive to support others.

    Seconded. Take care of yourself @RochdalePioneers.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060

    Trump is a loser and a laughing stock.

    Surprised normally sensible PBers like William continue to give him oxygen.

    I just found the format amusing, and it is a thread about Trump... :flushed:
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,078

    Trump has found a way to get around his twitter ban by issuing viral press releases.
    https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1369793211833741312

    It does have the advantage that it might encourage some people to get vaccinated.
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Trump is a loser and a laughing stock.

    Surprised normally sensible PBers like William continue to give him oxygen.

    I just found the format amusing, and it is a thread about Trump... :flushed:
    williamglenn is a well-known Trump-booster and MAGA head. Sad.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Nearly 20 LGBT+ organisations and campaigners have written to the equalities minister to express their "deep concern" at her response to calls to ban so-called conversion therapy.

    The campaigners say Kemi Badenoch has failed to engage with their calls for urgent action.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56353313
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,984

    Trump is a loser and a laughing stock.

    Surprised normally sensible PBers like William continue to give him oxygen.

    I just found the format amusing, and it is a thread about Trump... :flushed:
    williamglenn is a well-known Trump-booster and MAGA head. Sad.
    Long time ago. He abandoned Trump years ago and supported Biden in 2020 IIRC.
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Trump is a loser and a laughing stock.

    Surprised normally sensible PBers like William continue to give him oxygen.

    I just found the format amusing, and it is a thread about Trump... :flushed:
    williamglenn is a well-known Trump-booster and MAGA head. Sad.
    Long time ago. He abandoned Trump years ago and supported Biden in 2020 IIRC.
    I was kidding! I thought your comment was a bit harsh on him...
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,984

    Trump is a loser and a laughing stock.

    Surprised normally sensible PBers like William continue to give him oxygen.

    I just found the format amusing, and it is a thread about Trump... :flushed:
    williamglenn is a well-known Trump-booster and MAGA head. Sad.
    Long time ago. He abandoned Trump years ago and supported Biden in 2020 IIRC.
    I was kidding! I thought your comment was a bit harsh on him...
    Not really, I say the same to Carlotta for her endless promotion of Dave Keating!
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334
    Foxy said:



    There are 10 million Brits living outside the UK for a start. I expect that the BBC Web administrator know where there users are. It is right that they should pay.

    It'd be a fair deal if they threw in iPlayer - at present, a lot of their content is blocked overseas because the BBC hopes to sell the rights. Loads of expats would pay for that package - not sure they'd pay much for the news alone.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334
    Sean_F said:


    Accusations of bad faith could be made both ways.

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1015191244388085760

    I don't think that was bad faith. You have to remember that because of the Internal Market Bill and the long history, the EU has become increasingly distrustful of the UK, and therefore is increasingly reluctant to trust us to meet our obligations without formal controls . Yes, we should be de-dramatising the Irish Sea border, but that is the diametric opposite of what Lord Frost and Boris are doing: they are drama-queening it, most recently with their brain-dead unilateral action. That has torpedoed the Irish government's attempt to lobby quietly within the EU for technical solutions, extensions of the grace periods, and light-touch application of the rules.
    Our government is entitled to act in the interest of its own citizens.
    Of course. But making our neighbours feel we are untrustworthy by showing willingness to break agreements on a whim is not in our long-term interest. Similarly, Macron's statement about AZ was idiotic and against the French public interest, so it's not just us being self-defeating.
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    MangoMango Posts: 1,013



    Tusk got way too emotional over Brexit.

    He was an Anglophile. They did exist in numbers, particularly in countries where the twin tyrannies of fascism and Stalinism had to be seen off.

    Not any more though. Another soft power Brexit win.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Mango said:



    Tusk got way too emotional over Brexit.

    He was an Anglophile. They did exist in numbers, particularly in countries where the twin tyrannies of fascism and Stalinism had to be seen off.

    Not any more though. Another soft power Brexit win.
    Any source to back that up?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,611
    About to watch this Adam Curtis documentary from 2011:


    "All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace

    Films by Adam Curtis about how humans have been colonised by machines we have built. Although we don't realise it, the way we see everything is through the eyes of the computers"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b011lvb9/all-watched-over-by-machines-of-loving-grace
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2021
    This is incredibly slippery slope (and crazy)...basically morgan is a racist...why, what racist thing has he said...he didn't say anything, but i felt the tone he used made it so....

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9348503/Sharon-Osbourne-DEFENDS-friend-Piers-Morgan-calling-Meghan-Markle-liar.html

    Who becomes the arbitrator of what tone is racist?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    This is incredibly slippery slope (and crazy)...basically morgan is a racist...why, what racist thing has he said...he didn't say anything, but i felt the tone he used made it so....

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9348503/Sharon-Osbourne-DEFENDS-friend-Piers-Morgan-calling-Meghan-Markle-liar.html

    Who becomes the arbitrator of what tone is racist?

    I'm happy to fill that role.
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    MangoMango Posts: 1,013

    ITV have replaced Piers Morgan with the only other guy in the country that's a bigger pillock than he is.

    Dan Hannan?
This discussion has been closed.