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Is this Trump’s legacy – Republican voters significantly less likely to follow COVID guidelines than

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  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    kinabalu said:

    @contrarian

    Yer man's had the jab. Great big orange wuss.

    Are we 100% sure both the virus and the vaccine didn’t refuse Trump? Might be why he recovered so quickly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,210
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    I find the government's vaccine home movie extraordinary.

    They are trumpeting their program from the mountaintops but preventing the vaccinated from accessing more freedoms.

    All that does is completely undermine their achievement.

    Let's break this down -

    (1) Elections are still happening - there are no moves to cancel or postpone May's elections
    (2) As a result of (1) the Government want to be popular
    (3) In order to acheive (2) they put out this (slightly inappropriate IMHO) video in order to boost themselves prior to the elections, in a video featuring civil servants (again inappropriately IMHO)
    (4) In order for the effections of (3) to be maintained, as you suggest, the vaccines must be seen to be having some tangible effect upon people's lives or, as you say, their acheivement will be undermined
    (5) If lockdown easing (in fact, in truth, by the elections a great deal of the economy will be reopened) is delayed then, as you say, their achievement will be undermined.
    (6) Ergo, there is no incentive upon them, despite what you consistently post on here, to extend lockdown at all.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,764
    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK cases by specimen date

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100k population

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK local R

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK case summary

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  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    I find the government's vaccine home movie extraordinary.

    They are trumpeting their program from the mountaintops but preventing the vaccinated from accessing more freedoms.

    All that does is completely undermine their achievement.

    If only they had some kind of timetable for allowing everyone to access more freedoms, and were carefully working their way through it...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK hospitals

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK deaths

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK R

    from case data

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    from hospitalisation data

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  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388
    edited March 2021

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    Age related data

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  • On topic. Isn't this mostly a function of Republicans living in rural areas and Democrats in more urban areas?

    Or Republicans stupid and Democrats less so, which kind of overlaps with what you say.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    Age related data, scaled to 100k population per age group

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK vaccinations

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  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    Nigelb said:
    A sad loss. Where would the pirated music and ZX Spectrum games of my youth be without him?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    I find the government's vaccine home movie extraordinary.

    They are trumpeting their program from the mountaintops but preventing the vaccinated from accessing more freedoms.

    All that does is completely undermine their achievement.

    If only they had some kind of timetable for allowing everyone to access more freedoms, and were carefully working their way through it...
    Thing is, @contrarian is widely mocked on here, but I recon, in an alternative universe where labour were in power and doing *exactly the same* things re:COVID.... well I recon contrarians views would be fairly mainstream on the centre-right.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    eek said:

    WTF does the EU mean by a loan - beyond trying to leap above other countries without paying the current market price.

    Perhaps they are thinking of LendLease - "I will lend you these artillery shells. When you have finished with them...."
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    Daily summary of the stats

    Not done this in a while.

    - Despite the jump in testing to 1.5 million a day Monday, 1.3 million a day today, a very small increase in cases.
    - Every other stat is heading down

    The fall in deaths is taking place mostly in the 65+ plus group

    image

    Cases - 85+ are less likely to get COVID now than 45-64. 65-84 are least likely of any group to get COVID

    image

    The fall in admissions is a bit mucked up by PHE publishing a 18-64 group. 65-84 is falling very paisley

    image
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    Worked out well (kind of) for Corbyn.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    If the pre-Easter school opening doesn't lead to an increase in cases, and we do have a bumper few weeks on the vaccination front, Johnson will have to be mightily tempted to bring forward a lot of restriction easing to before the elections.

    He'll receive a huge "Covid is over earlier than expected" bounce if he does.

    You'd be anticipating a Jacinda Ardern scale victory in those circumstances in English councils. London, Scotland, perhaps not so much.

    Any Corbyn loyalists in the shadow Cabinet who might resign and call for Starmer to go?

    A big "If" for the vaccination surge. Since the magic 15 million weekend it's been less than exciting.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited March 2021
    ping said:

    I find the government's vaccine home movie extraordinary.

    They are trumpeting their program from the mountaintops but preventing the vaccinated from accessing more freedoms.

    All that does is completely undermine their achievement.

    If only they had some kind of timetable for allowing everyone to access more freedoms, and were carefully working their way through it...
    Thing is, @contrarian is widely mocked on here, but I recon, in an alternative universe where labour were in power and doing *exactly the same* things re:COVID.... well I recon contrarians views would be fairly mainstream on the centre-right.
    I can only speak for myself, but that wouldn't be the case for me. The sad fact is that the pandemic necessitates a gigantic statist response and you'd have had more or less the same basic policy on lockdowns and fiscal intervention no matter what party was in power. I'm just glad that the Tories brought a little venture-capital magic to vaccine procurement, and that Labour's not overseeing the taxation side and making it even more brutal than it has to be.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200
    ping said:

    I find the government's vaccine home movie extraordinary.

    They are trumpeting their program from the mountaintops but preventing the vaccinated from accessing more freedoms.

    All that does is completely undermine their achievement.

    If only they had some kind of timetable for allowing everyone to access more freedoms, and were carefully working their way through it...
    Thing is, @contrarian is widely mocked on here, but I recon, in an alternative universe where labour were in power and doing *exactly the same* things re:COVID.... well I recon contrarians views would be fairly mainstream on the centre-right.
    The counterfactual of it being not just Labour in power but CORBYN Labour is quite interesting to muse upon. But I don't know. The strong circumstantial antidote (to anti-lockdown sentiment) that broadly the same approach is being taken everywhere is essentially apolitical and therefore would apply just the same.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    edited March 2021
    Oh the joys of using paperwork and red tape as an economic weapon.

    The thing is that it really doesn't matter. As was pointed out earlier today the complete and utter screw up the EU has made of their vaccination program means that people will accept way more hassle and pain than they would have done in January.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Be interesting to know whether this sort of regulation was long in the planning (probably) or is an example of NTBs being erected spitefully and in bad faith.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    These people have got a screw loose. If the EU bans export of Pfizer vaccines to the UK the UK will in turn ban exports of the lipid layer product manufactured in Yorkshire that is absolutely critical to manufacturing of the vaccine.

    Honestly, I think some of them need to have their heads examined by professionals.
    They’re in some parallel universe. Again, I don’t understand

    As has been noted elsewhere, it doesn’t even make political or public health sense (even if you ignore the hysterical lies). The EU’s vaccine performance isn’t that bad. They’re behind the UK and USA but they’re now speeding up. By tantruming like this they imply the vaccine drive is a disaster. If they were upbeat and positive they’d be giving much better signals to their voters, encouraging everyone to get the jab. Madness
    They're contriving to turn Brexit into an existential issue for the EU.
    Is this related to Brexit? Does it menace their brittle self-esteem that much? Quite peculiar
    There are lots of elements to it: Cognitive dissonance because they had mentally written off the UK as if it were only as significant to the EU as losing Malta. Prickliness because their public diplomacy is conducted in English and there is always a UK voice to call them out. Self-doubt because any success the UK has undermines the arguments for integration being the best way forwards. Aggressiveness because they have internalised the idea that market power means you always get what you want.
    I don't think the Scotch Whisky thing helped either.

    For 15 years ... nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing.

    UK leaves EU.

    2 months later ... on the road to being sorted for UK.
  • Must say that this is turning into a fun* week:
    1. One of my oldest friends' separation from his wife (her fault) turned nasty when her mum made baseless serious allegations that led to his arrest. We're working hard to support him.
    2. One of my closest work friends is best mates with Sarah Everard. We're working hard to support her
    3. My son just rang to say that his mum is in hospital with acute kidney failure and her prognosis - if she survives the night - is poor. Yes we have had our serious disagreements and run-ins, but now working hard to support my son

    On the bright side a strong week from a work perspective...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428

    Must say that this is turning into a fun* week:
    1. One of my oldest friends' separation from his wife (her fault) turned nasty when her mum made baseless serious allegations that led to his arrest. We're working hard to support him.
    2. One of my closest work friends is best mates with Sarah Everard. We're working hard to support her
    3. My son just rang to say that his mum is in hospital with acute kidney failure and her prognosis - if she survives the night - is poor. Yes we have had our serious disagreements and run-ins, but now working hard to support my son

    On the bright side a strong week from a work perspective...

    Hope all turns out as well as it can. No 2 is not looking good sadly.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    I find the government's vaccine home movie extraordinary.

    They are trumpeting their program from the mountaintops but preventing the vaccinated from accessing more freedoms.

    All that does is completely undermine their achievement.

    If only they had some kind of timetable for allowing everyone to access more freedoms, and were carefully working their way through it...
    Thing is, @contrarian is widely mocked on here, but I recon, in an alternative universe where labour were in power and doing *exactly the same* things re:COVID.... well I recon contrarians views would be fairly mainstream on the centre-right.
    The counterfactual of it being not just Labour in power but CORBYN Labour is quite interesting to muse upon. But I don't know. The strong circumstantial antidote (to anti-lockdown sentiment) that broadly the same approach is being taken everywhere is essentially apolitical and therefore would apply just the same.
    The counterfactual I'm most interested in, is whether "contrarian" would have been arguing the exact opposite if we had taken the approach he claims to want, or if he's more committed to his handle than his professed principles.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,532
    edited March 2021
    TimT said:

    Be interesting to know whether this sort of regulation was long in the planning (probably) or is an example of NTBs being erected spitefully and in bad faith.
    Yes, heard about this ages ago. It's one of the numerous minor hassles of now being a "third country", but it was always clear that it would apply to us and everyone else outside the EU. Brexit supporters have always accepted that this sort of effect would happen, but believe that the freedom to set our own rules would make up for it.

    The argument about the NI Protocol is at heart the same thing. Either (1) NI is tied into EU rules and enforces them itself so doesn't need documentation (but then has to apply it to all GB exports to NI), or (2) it isn't (but then has to have the third country hassle in trade with Eire and other EU countries). An interim state where goods flowing through NI are mysteriously exempt from *anyone* checking if they're compliant doesn't, and realistically can't, exist.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Scott_xP said:
    As if the Tory lead in the polls was not big enough. Could they not have held this in reserve?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,210

    Must say that this is turning into a fun* week:
    1. One of my oldest friends' separation from his wife (her fault) turned nasty when her mum made baseless serious allegations that led to his arrest. We're working hard to support him.
    2. One of my closest work friends is best mates with Sarah Everard. We're working hard to support her
    3. My son just rang to say that his mum is in hospital with acute kidney failure and her prognosis - if she survives the night - is poor. Yes we have had our serious disagreements and run-ins, but now working hard to support my son

    On the bright side a strong week from a work perspective...

    All the best, Rochdale.
    It's been a crap year or so for many of us, but all that sounds like more than your fair share.
  • dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    He's the worst type of political low life. He thinks he's spotted a bandwagon and has quickly tried to jump on it. His timing was so poor however that he has missed and now even his own supporters will be wincing with embarrassment.

    Khan was already a shoo-in for re-election. If Bailey is the only meaningful opposition, the contest is already over.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200

    Nigelb said:
    A sad loss. Where would the pirated music and ZX Spectrum games of my youth be without him?
    I was thinking more of that painstakingly crafted selection you present on a C60 to your first love. The immense pressure of taking on that task and getting it right. Will she like Hawkwind's Silver Machine as much as I do? What does it say about me that I like it? Do I want her to know that? Am I trying to show her what I'm all about or show her how I can spookily divine the very essence of her? If the latter, how about some Foreigner?

    I suppose all of the same applies these days - in doing a playlist from spotify and emailing the link - but it doesn't quite seem the same.

    #sentimentaloldfogies.com
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Must say that this is turning into a fun* week:
    1. One of my oldest friends' separation from his wife (her fault) turned nasty when her mum made baseless serious allegations that led to his arrest. We're working hard to support him.
    2. One of my closest work friends is best mates with Sarah Everard. We're working hard to support her
    3. My son just rang to say that his mum is in hospital with acute kidney failure and her prognosis - if she survives the night - is poor. Yes we have had our serious disagreements and run-ins, but now working hard to support my son

    On the bright side a strong week from a work perspective...

    Jesus. What an awful list. Sympathies
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,692

    TimT said:

    Be interesting to know whether this sort of regulation was long in the planning (probably) or is an example of NTBs being erected spitefully and in bad faith.
    Yes, heard about this ages ago. It's one of the numerous minor hassles of now being a "third country", but it was always clear that it would apply to us and everyone else outside the EU. Brexit supporters have always accepted that this sort of effect would happen, but believe that the freedom to set our own rules would make up for it.

    The argument about the NI Protocol is at heart the same thing. Either (1) NI is tied into EU rules and enforces them itself so doesn't need documentation (but then has to apply it to all GB exports to NI), or (2) it isn't (but then has to have the third country hassle in trade with Eire and other EU countries). An interim state where goods flowing through NI are mysteriously exempt from *anyone* checking if they're compliant doesn't, and realistically can't, exist.
    In practice, if the EU isn't satisfied with the way the UK is controlling the GB-NI border and thinks that this really matters, it's difficult to see how it doesn't eventually lead to the thing they were trying to avoid which is recognition of a special status for Ireland.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    Must say that this is turning into a fun* week:
    1. One of my oldest friends' separation from his wife (her fault) turned nasty when her mum made baseless serious allegations that led to his arrest. We're working hard to support him.
    2. One of my closest work friends is best mates with Sarah Everard. We're working hard to support her
    3. My son just rang to say that his mum is in hospital with acute kidney failure and her prognosis - if she survives the night - is poor. Yes we have had our serious disagreements and run-ins, but now working hard to support my son

    On the bright side a strong week from a work perspective...

    Blimey. Thanks for putting my grumps and moans into some sort of perspective. I wish you all the best in getting through what looks like a seriously hard shift.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Must say that this is turning into a fun* week:
    1. One of my oldest friends' separation from his wife (her fault) turned nasty when her mum made baseless serious allegations that led to his arrest. We're working hard to support him.
    2. One of my closest work friends is best mates with Sarah Everard. We're working hard to support her
    3. My son just rang to say that his mum is in hospital with acute kidney failure and her prognosis - if she survives the night - is poor. Yes we have had our serious disagreements and run-ins, but now working hard to support my son

    On the bright side a strong week from a work perspective...

    Best wishes @RochdalePioneers
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,082
    No government press conference this evening?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227

    TimT said:

    Be interesting to know whether this sort of regulation was long in the planning (probably) or is an example of NTBs being erected spitefully and in bad faith.
    Yes, heard about this ages ago. It's one of the numerous minor hassles of now being a "third country", but it was always clear that it would apply to us and everyone else outside the EU. Brexit supporters have always accepted that this sort of effect would happen, but believe that the freedom to set our own rules would make up for it.

    The argument about the NI Protocol is at heart the same thing. Either (1) NI is tied into EU rules and enforces them itself so doesn't need documentation (but then has to apply it to all GB exports to NI), or (2) it isn't (but then has to have the third country hassle in trade with Eire and other EU countries). An interim state where goods flowing through NI are mysteriously exempt from *anyone* checking if they're compliant doesn't, and realistically can't, exist.
    In practice, if the EU isn't satisfied with the way the UK is controlling the GB-NI border and thinks that this really matters, it's difficult to see how it doesn't eventually lead to the thing they were trying to avoid which is recognition of a special status for Ireland.
    I wonder if it is time for an "Association of EU Trading Partners" to increase leverage?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    HYUFD said:
    Does suggest that the Tory lead might be higher outside London and other big cities. Or it could just be a weak candidate.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    DavidL said:

    Must say that this is turning into a fun* week:
    1. One of my oldest friends' separation from his wife (her fault) turned nasty when her mum made baseless serious allegations that led to his arrest. We're working hard to support him.
    2. One of my closest work friends is best mates with Sarah Everard. We're working hard to support her
    3. My son just rang to say that his mum is in hospital with acute kidney failure and her prognosis - if she survives the night - is poor. Yes we have had our serious disagreements and run-ins, but now working hard to support my son

    On the bright side a strong week from a work perspective...

    Blimey. Thanks for putting my grumps and moans into some sort of perspective. I wish you all the best in getting through what looks like a seriously hard shift.
    Sorry to hear that.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Must say that this is turning into a fun* week:
    1. One of my oldest friends' separation from his wife (her fault) turned nasty when her mum made baseless serious allegations that led to his arrest. We're working hard to support him.
    2. One of my closest work friends is best mates with Sarah Everard. We're working hard to support her
    3. My son just rang to say that his mum is in hospital with acute kidney failure and her prognosis - if she survives the night - is poor. Yes we have had our serious disagreements and run-ins, but now working hard to support my son

    On the bright side a strong week from a work perspective...

    Horrible mate - just horrible

    Re 1 - the police have to take it seriously - but they quickly saw through what was going on when the ex of a mate got their kids to make complaints about his new partner - incredibly stressful though
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,764

    dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    He's the worst type of political low life. He thinks he's spotted a bandwagon and has quickly tried to jump on it. His timing was so poor however that he has missed and now even his own supporters will be wincing with embarrassment.

    Khan was already a shoo-in for re-election. If Bailey is the only meaningful opposition, the contest is already over.
    Con central office should use this opportunity to ditch a clearly failing candidate to be honest.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited March 2021

    TimT said:

    Be interesting to know whether this sort of regulation was long in the planning (probably) or is an example of NTBs being erected spitefully and in bad faith.
    Yes, heard about this ages ago. It's one of the numerous minor hassles of now being a "third country", but it was always clear that it would apply to us and everyone else outside the EU. Brexit supporters have always accepted that this sort of effect would happen, but believe that the freedom to set our own rules would make up for it.

    The argument about the NI Protocol is at heart the same thing. Either (1) NI is tied into EU rules and enforces them itself so doesn't need documentation (but then has to apply it to all GB exports to NI), or (2) it isn't (but then has to have the third country hassle in trade with Eire and other EU countries). An interim state where goods flowing through NI are mysteriously exempt from *anyone* checking if they're compliant doesn't, and realistically can't, exist.
    In practice, if the EU isn't satisfied with the way the UK is controlling the GB-NI border and thinks that this really matters, it's difficult to see how it doesn't eventually lead to the thing they were trying to avoid which is recognition of a special status for Ireland.
    .. which is I think what the government, inasmuch as it has any plan at all, is hoping. The trouble is that it shows immense bad faith on the part of the UK government, with our EU friends increasingly and understandably convinced that Boris never had any intention of sticking to what he formally agreed to. The result of that will be that we're not going to get the kind of light-touch, trust-based cooperation which would have smoothed over a lot of the frictions which are strangling UK (and especially NI) businesses. It is a lamentable state of affairs, with serious negative consequences for the UK.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,101

    dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    He's the worst type of political low life. He thinks he's spotted a bandwagon and has quickly tried to jump on it. His timing was so poor however that he has missed and now even his own supporters will be wincing with embarrassment.

    Khan was already a shoo-in for re-election. If Bailey is the only meaningful opposition, the contest is already over.
    Con central office should use this opportunity to ditch a clearly failing candidate to be honest.
    Bailey is alright, I have met him, he is likeable and had a tough backstory.

    No other Tory candidate would be doing much better, London is a strongly Labour city now.

    The only candidate who might have had a chance of beating Khan is Lord Sugar who has the name recognition, managerial experience and money to win
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    As if the Tory lead in the polls was not big enough. Could they not have held this in reserve?
    Is gay conversion therapy seen as a vote-winner by the Tory faithful now? Classy.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    edited March 2021

    TimT said:

    Be interesting to know whether this sort of regulation was long in the planning (probably) or is an example of NTBs being erected spitefully and in bad faith.
    Yes, heard about this ages ago. It's one of the numerous minor hassles of now being a "third country", but it was always clear that it would apply to us and everyone else outside the EU. Brexit supporters have always accepted that this sort of effect would happen, but believe that the freedom to set our own rules would make up for it.

    The argument about the NI Protocol is at heart the same thing. Either (1) NI is tied into EU rules and enforces them itself so doesn't need documentation (but then has to apply it to all GB exports to NI), or (2) it isn't (but then has to have the third country hassle in trade with Eire and other EU countries). An interim state where goods flowing through NI are mysteriously exempt from *anyone* checking if they're compliant doesn't, and realistically can't, exist.
    In practice, if the EU isn't satisfied with the way the UK is controlling the GB-NI border and thinks that this really matters, it's difficult to see how it doesn't eventually lead to the thing they were trying to avoid which is recognition of a special status for Ireland.
    What happens to product manufactured in Third Countries by EU companies?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited March 2021

    ping said:

    I find the government's vaccine home movie extraordinary.

    They are trumpeting their program from the mountaintops but preventing the vaccinated from accessing more freedoms.

    All that does is completely undermine their achievement.

    If only they had some kind of timetable for allowing everyone to access more freedoms, and were carefully working their way through it...
    Thing is, @contrarian is widely mocked on here, but I recon, in an alternative universe where labour were in power and doing *exactly the same* things re:COVID.... well I recon contrarians views would be fairly mainstream on the centre-right.
    I can only speak for myself, but that wouldn't be the case for me. The sad fact is that the pandemic necessitates a gigantic statist response and you'd have had more or less the same basic policy on lockdowns and fiscal intervention no matter what party was in power. I'm just glad that the Tories brought a little venture-capital magic to vaccine procurement, and that Labour's not overseeing the taxation side and making it even more brutal than it has to be.
    Except principles are principles for all seasons or they are meaningless and valueless. Mere expediency.

    It really will be interesting and funny to see what the conservatives stand on in every election from here on in.

    Personal freedom? please. Personal responsibility? stop. Pro business? except the thousands we crushed by fiat. Fiscal responsibility? this is a joke right? Low taxes? hardly. Smart regulation? in your dreams. Fast growth? no chance Freedom of speech? don;t think so. Police chasing criminals? not when they can nick you for legitimate protests. Job opportunities? millions on furlough.

    Every tory principle in the book has been totally and completely junked. The conservatives now stand for nothing, and they are nothing.

    In the process they have turned lifelong conservatives voters, not just into agnostics, but into sworn enemies. For good.

    It probably won't matter, but one day it might. We'll see.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Is the UKIP candidate actually called "Gammons"? 😂
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    If Bailey drops out and Rory Stewart is brought in from the cold and named the new Tory candidate, it would at least make the contest interesting. Pretty limited time though.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    He's the worst type of political low life. He thinks he's spotted a bandwagon and has quickly tried to jump on it. His timing was so poor however that he has missed and now even his own supporters will be wincing with embarrassment.

    Khan was already a shoo-in for re-election. If Bailey is the only meaningful opposition, the contest is already over.
    Con central office should use this opportunity to ditch a clearly failing candidate to be honest.
    Bailey is alright, I have met him, he is likeable and had a tough backstory.

    No other Tory candidate would be doing much better, London is a strongly Labour city now.

    The only candidate who might have had a chance of beating Khan is Lord Sugar who has the name recognition, managerial experience and money to win
    You are suggesting the Tories should have as their candidate... a former Labour peer?

    Bold. If voting for Blair is enough to disqualify one as a "real Conservative", what does serving in Gordon Brown's government do?
  • Paradoxically, as the Tories get more popular, they seem to get less popular in London.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    Leon said:

    Must say that this is turning into a fun* week:
    1. One of my oldest friends' separation from his wife (her fault) turned nasty when her mum made baseless serious allegations that led to his arrest. We're working hard to support him.
    2. One of my closest work friends is best mates with Sarah Everard. We're working hard to support her
    3. My son just rang to say that his mum is in hospital with acute kidney failure and her prognosis - if she survives the night - is poor. Yes we have had our serious disagreements and run-ins, but now working hard to support my son

    On the bright side a strong week from a work perspective...

    Jesus. What an awful list. Sympathies
    Seconded
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,101
    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    He's the worst type of political low life. He thinks he's spotted a bandwagon and has quickly tried to jump on it. His timing was so poor however that he has missed and now even his own supporters will be wincing with embarrassment.

    Khan was already a shoo-in for re-election. If Bailey is the only meaningful opposition, the contest is already over.
    Con central office should use this opportunity to ditch a clearly failing candidate to be honest.
    Bailey is alright, I have met him, he is likeable and had a tough backstory.

    No other Tory candidate would be doing much better, London is a strongly Labour city now.

    The only candidate who might have had a chance of beating Khan is Lord Sugar who has the name recognition, managerial experience and money to win
    You are suggesting the Tories should have as their candidate... a former Labour peer?

    Bold. If voting for Blair is enough to disqualify one as a "real Conservative", what does serving in Gordon Brown's government do?
    No, I was suggesting Sugar should run as an independent, he would be unlikely to win as a Tory
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751

    Must say that this is turning into a fun* week:
    1. One of my oldest friends' separation from his wife (her fault) turned nasty when her mum made baseless serious allegations that led to his arrest. We're working hard to support him.
    2. One of my closest work friends is best mates with Sarah Everard. We're working hard to support her
    3. My son just rang to say that his mum is in hospital with acute kidney failure and her prognosis - if she survives the night - is poor. Yes we have had our serious disagreements and run-ins, but now working hard to support my son

    On the bright side a strong week from a work perspective...

    Best wishes @RochdalePioneers
    An awful run RP, all the best to you and yours.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,101
    moonshine said:

    If Bailey drops out and Rory Stewart is brought in from the cold and named the new Tory candidate, it would at least make the contest interesting. Pretty limited time though.

    Stewart wouldn't win either, he might win over a few liberals but would also lose some rightwingers to Fox and Gammons
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,101

    Paradoxically, as the Tories get more popular, they seem to get less popular in London.

    The Tories are on 42% with Comres today, so down about 2% on 2019 and back to 2017 levels, though still comfortably ahead
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    TimT said:

    Be interesting to know whether this sort of regulation was long in the planning (probably) or is an example of NTBs being erected spitefully and in bad faith.
    Yes, heard about this ages ago. It's one of the numerous minor hassles of now being a "third country", but it was always clear that it would apply to us and everyone else outside the EU. Brexit supporters have always accepted that this sort of effect would happen, but believe that the freedom to set our own rules would make up for it.

    The argument about the NI Protocol is at heart the same thing. Either (1) NI is tied into EU rules and enforces them itself so doesn't need documentation (but then has to apply it to all GB exports to NI), or (2) it isn't (but then has to have the third country hassle in trade with Eire and other EU countries). An interim state where goods flowing through NI are mysteriously exempt from *anyone* checking if they're compliant doesn't, and realistically can't, exist.
    In practice, if the EU isn't satisfied with the way the UK is controlling the GB-NI border and thinks that this really matters, it's difficult to see how it doesn't eventually lead to the thing they were trying to avoid which is recognition of a special status for Ireland.
    .. which is I think what the government, inasmuch as it has any plan at all, is hoping. The trouble is that it shows immense bad faith on the part of the UK government, with our EU friends increasingly and understandably convinced that Boris never had any intention of sticking to what he formally agreed to. The consequences of that will be that we're not going to get the kind of light-touch, trust-based cooperation which would have smoothed over a lot of the frictions which are strangling UK (and especially NI) businesses. It is a lamentable state of affairs, with serious negative consequences for the UK.
    I think that is a little harsh Richard. There was hysteria at the time to get a deal, any deal and the government was under immense pressure to deliver. Deliver they did but the EU "solution" in respect of NI is a fantasy. It is a part of the UK and will be until they choose to vote otherwise. Restrictions on our internal SM are frankly absurd and should never have been agreed to but the hysteria needed to be met.

    I think that we have done the right thing in making it clear that we will not accept restrictions on our internal market. We never should have. I acknowledge that this doesn't do a lot for our credibility but we were where we were, largely due to the frighteningly appalling failure of Hammond and May to prepare for Brexit for 2 years (although her solution was better and the Commons should never have voted it down).

    Now it is up to the EU how to respond. We should make it crystal clear that there will be no customs posts on our side of the border and all checks (as well as VAT matters) will be dealt with away from the border. The EU have the right to put up Customs checks. I don't think that Ireland will want them to but that may not be determinative of the matter.

    In the interests of good neighborliness, we might want to share our experiences of trying to operate border posts in NI.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    He's the worst type of political low life. He thinks he's spotted a bandwagon and has quickly tried to jump on it. His timing was so poor however that he has missed and now even his own supporters will be wincing with embarrassment.

    Khan was already a shoo-in for re-election. If Bailey is the only meaningful opposition, the contest is already over.
    Con central office should use this opportunity to ditch a clearly failing candidate to be honest.
    Bailey is alright, I have met him, he is likeable and had a tough backstory.

    No other Tory candidate would be doing much better, London is a strongly Labour city now.

    The only candidate who might have had a chance of beating Khan is Lord Sugar who has the name recognition, managerial experience and money to win
    You are suggesting the Tories should have as their candidate... a former Labour peer?

    Bold. If voting for Blair is enough to disqualify one as a "real Conservative", what does serving in Gordon Brown's government do?
    No, I was suggesting Sugar should run as an independent, he would be unlikely to win as a Tory
    I see. Not sure he wouldn't take more votes away from the Tory candidate than from Khan, to be honest. Little chance either way.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,101
    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    He's the worst type of political low life. He thinks he's spotted a bandwagon and has quickly tried to jump on it. His timing was so poor however that he has missed and now even his own supporters will be wincing with embarrassment.

    Khan was already a shoo-in for re-election. If Bailey is the only meaningful opposition, the contest is already over.
    Con central office should use this opportunity to ditch a clearly failing candidate to be honest.
    Bailey is alright, I have met him, he is likeable and had a tough backstory.

    No other Tory candidate would be doing much better, London is a strongly Labour city now.

    The only candidate who might have had a chance of beating Khan is Lord Sugar who has the name recognition, managerial experience and money to win
    You are suggesting the Tories should have as their candidate... a former Labour peer?

    Bold. If voting for Blair is enough to disqualify one as a "real Conservative", what does serving in Gordon Brown's government do?
    No, I was suggesting Sugar should run as an independent, he would be unlikely to win as a Tory
    I see. Not sure he wouldn't take more votes away from the Tory candidate than from Khan, to be honest. Little chance either way.
    If he got to the final 2, which he likely would, he could win with Tory preferences
  • Floater said:

    Must say that this is turning into a fun* week:
    1. One of my oldest friends' separation from his wife (her fault) turned nasty when her mum made baseless serious allegations that led to his arrest. We're working hard to support him.
    2. One of my closest work friends is best mates with Sarah Everard. We're working hard to support her
    3. My son just rang to say that his mum is in hospital with acute kidney failure and her prognosis - if she survives the night - is poor. Yes we have had our serious disagreements and run-ins, but now working hard to support my son

    On the bright side a strong week from a work perspective...

    Horrible mate - just horrible

    Re 1 - the police have to take it seriously - but they quickly saw through what was going on when the ex of a mate got their kids to make complaints about his new partner - incredibly stressful though
    They have grown irreconcilably apart. He moved out at her request a few weeks ago. Her mum called them to make a very serious allegation for something that allegedly happened 2 years ago which she only chose to report immediately after he called his wife's bluff about access...

    So yes, no option but to arrest for the offence but even the investigating officer has mentioned how they will chose to treat deliberately false allegations. Understandibly my mate has found it all hugely stressful and depressing.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Far more voters are escaping from the also rans than are accruing to Khan in that poll?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Chris said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    As if the Tory lead in the polls was not big enough. Could they not have held this in reserve?
    Is gay conversion therapy seen as a vote-winner by the Tory faithful now? Classy.
    That is not what I said nor is it, from the article, what is being complained about.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited March 2021

    ping said:

    I find the government's vaccine home movie extraordinary.

    They are trumpeting their program from the mountaintops but preventing the vaccinated from accessing more freedoms.

    All that does is completely undermine their achievement.

    If only they had some kind of timetable for allowing everyone to access more freedoms, and were carefully working their way through it...
    Thing is, @contrarian is widely mocked on here, but I recon, in an alternative universe where labour were in power and doing *exactly the same* things re:COVID.... well I recon contrarians views would be fairly mainstream on the centre-right.
    I can only speak for myself, but that wouldn't be the case for me. The sad fact is that the pandemic necessitates a gigantic statist response and you'd have had more or less the same basic policy on lockdowns and fiscal intervention no matter what party was in power. I'm just glad that the Tories brought a little venture-capital magic to vaccine procurement, and that Labour's not overseeing the taxation side and making it even more brutal than it has to be.
    Except principles are principles for all seasons or they are meaningless and valueless. Mere expediency.

    It really will be interesting and funny to see what the conservatives stand on in every election from here on in.

    Personal freedom? please. Personal responsibility? stop. Pro business? except the thousands we crushed by fiat. Fiscal responsibility? this is a joke right? Low taxes? hardly. Smart regulation? in your dreams. Fast growth? no chance Freedom of speech? don;t think so. Police chasing criminals? not when they can nick you for legitimate protests. Job opportunities? millions on furlough.

    Every tory principle in the book has been totally and completely junked. The conservatives now stand for nothing, and they are nothing.

    In the process they have turned lifelong conservatives voters, not just into agnostics, but into sworn enemies. For good.

    It probably won't matter, but one day it might. We'll see.
    If you're looking for a party run on absolute principles that never bend on contact with reality - a once in a century global pandemic, for example - then good luck to you. Tell the Corbynites we said hello.

    And you're really going to pretend that you were a lifelong Conservative voter, as opposed to a Kipper / BXPer / Who-Knows-Whatter? I doubt, contrarian, I doubt...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Paradoxically, as the Tories get more popular, they seem to get less popular in London.

    Whole capital of contrarians.
  • What is it about our society that keeps breeding new generations of men who see it as their sport to abduct or rape or murder random women? Might be nice if this tiny tiny minority of men could not put fear into almost all the women I am friends with that a walk home that I would barely give second thought to could lead to their brutal end.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    If Bailey drops out and Rory Stewart is brought in from the cold and named the new Tory candidate, it would at least make the contest interesting. Pretty limited time though.

    Stewart wouldn't win either, he might win over a few liberals but would also lose some rightwingers to Fox and Gammons
    It’s been ages since I voted in the London mayor election. Isn’t there a multi candidate concept? So if Fox and Gammon failed to make the top 2 their votes would be transferred elsewhere? An anti lockdown anti woke voter would be pretty likely to have the Tory candidate as their backup id have thought.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751

    What is it about our society that keeps breeding new generations of men who see it as their sport to abduct or rape or murder random women? Might be nice if this tiny tiny minority of men could not put fear into almost all the women I am friends with that a walk home that I would barely give second thought to could lead to their brutal end.

    I’m sure a great many of us here have at some point merrily walked alone in the dark in that area of south west London without much thought. It’s insufferably awful.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    What is it about our society that keeps breeding new generations of men who see it as their sport to abduct or rape or murder random women? Might be nice if this tiny tiny minority of men could not put fear into almost all the women I am friends with that a walk home that I would barely give second thought to could lead to their brutal end.

    Nothing special about our society in that regard.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    What is it about our society that keeps breeding new generations of men who see it as their sport to abduct or rape or murder random women? Might be nice if this tiny tiny minority of men could not put fear into almost all the women I am friends with that a walk home that I would barely give second thought to could lead to their brutal end.

    Is it a society thing? I get that society is very much part of the equation when it comes to things like gangs and the like (criminal justice system, prison, rehabilitation, etc.).

    But I'm not sure society can be blamed for the tiny percentage of men who do this sort of thing. No doubt we'll get the usual "I just can't believe it" from neighbours of the accused.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,101
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    If Bailey drops out and Rory Stewart is brought in from the cold and named the new Tory candidate, it would at least make the contest interesting. Pretty limited time though.

    Stewart wouldn't win either, he might win over a few liberals but would also lose some rightwingers to Fox and Gammons
    It’s been ages since I voted in the London mayor election. Isn’t there a multi candidate concept? So if Fox and Gammon failed to make the top 2 their votes would be transferred elsewhere? An anti lockdown anti woke voter would be pretty likely to have the Tory candidate as their backup id have thought.
    Maybe not Stewart though who has always been strongly pro lockdown and pushed for it even before the government announced it and is pretty woke himself
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    Far more voters are escaping from the also rans than are accruing to Khan in that poll?
    4% to the Women's Equality Party. Who didn't have a candidate last time it was polled might explain it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,989
    @RochdalePioneers so sorry to hear about your travails. Make sure you do lot of living in your new home.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    If Bailey drops out and Rory Stewart is brought in from the cold and named the new Tory candidate, it would at least make the contest interesting. Pretty limited time though.

    Stewart wouldn't win either, he might win over a few liberals but would also lose some rightwingers to Fox and Gammons
    It’s been ages since I voted in the London mayor election. Isn’t there a multi candidate concept? So if Fox and Gammon failed to make the top 2 their votes would be transferred elsewhere? An anti lockdown anti woke voter would be pretty likely to have the Tory candidate as their backup id have thought.
    If Khan gets over 50% of 1st preferences, that's all she wrote. If not, the 2nd preferences get allocated, and Khan beats whoever came second comfortably anyway.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    RobD said:

    What is it about our society that keeps breeding new generations of men who see it as their sport to abduct or rape or murder random women? Might be nice if this tiny tiny minority of men could not put fear into almost all the women I am friends with that a walk home that I would barely give second thought to could lead to their brutal end.

    Nothing special about our society in that regard.
    Agreed. It is a part of the human condition that some people will be seriously disturbed in that way and act on those predilections. It's a bit troubling when one of them turns out to have been a reasonably senior police officer though.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    On the latest EU news, I never thought I’d be yearning for the days of Junker and Tusk.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    He's the worst type of political low life. He thinks he's spotted a bandwagon and has quickly tried to jump on it. His timing was so poor however that he has missed and now even his own supporters will be wincing with embarrassment.

    Khan was already a shoo-in for re-election. If Bailey is the only meaningful opposition, the contest is already over.
    Con central office should use this opportunity to ditch a clearly failing candidate to be honest.
    Bailey is alright, I have met him, he is likeable and had a tough backstory.

    No other Tory candidate would be doing much better, London is a strongly Labour city now.

    The only candidate who might have had a chance of beating Khan is Lord Sugar who has the name recognition, managerial experience and money to win
    You are suggesting the Tories should have as their candidate... a former Labour peer?

    Bold. If voting for Blair is enough to disqualify one as a "real Conservative", what does serving in Gordon Brown's government do?
    No, I was suggesting Sugar should run as an independent, he would be unlikely to win as a Tory
    I see. Not sure he wouldn't take more votes away from the Tory candidate than from Khan, to be honest. Little chance either way.
    If he got to the final 2, which he likely would, he could win with Tory preferences
    Pre-Trump, maybe. I doubt Londoners would risk putting the host of the Apprentice in office after what just happened in the US.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    What is it about our society that keeps breeding new generations of men who see it as their sport to abduct or rape or murder random women? Might be nice if this tiny tiny minority of men could not put fear into almost all the women I am friends with that a walk home that I would barely give second thought to could lead to their brutal end.

    Nothing special about our society in that regard.
    Agreed. It is a part of the human condition that some people will be seriously disturbed in that way and act on those predilections. It's a bit troubling when one of them turns out to have been a reasonably senior police officer though.
    That is indeed worrying, in the diplomatic protection branch.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    @RochdalePioneers.
    Best wishes. That is a heap of trouble all at once. Don't forget to look after yourself as you strive to support others.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    What is it about our society that keeps breeding new generations of men who see it as their sport to abduct or rape or murder random women? Might be nice if this tiny tiny minority of men could not put fear into almost all the women I am friends with that a walk home that I would barely give second thought to could lead to their brutal end.

    Nothing special about our society in that regard.
    Agreed. It is a part of the human condition that some people will be seriously disturbed in that way and act on those predilections. It's a bit troubling when one of them turns out to have been a reasonably senior police officer though.
    That is indeed worrying, in the diplomatic protection branch.
    Almost certainly with access to firearms. I thought such people were supposed to be pretty carefully psychologically assessed. I hope that is looked at pretty carefully.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,101
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    He's the worst type of political low life. He thinks he's spotted a bandwagon and has quickly tried to jump on it. His timing was so poor however that he has missed and now even his own supporters will be wincing with embarrassment.

    Khan was already a shoo-in for re-election. If Bailey is the only meaningful opposition, the contest is already over.
    Con central office should use this opportunity to ditch a clearly failing candidate to be honest.
    Bailey is alright, I have met him, he is likeable and had a tough backstory.

    No other Tory candidate would be doing much better, London is a strongly Labour city now.

    The only candidate who might have had a chance of beating Khan is Lord Sugar who has the name recognition, managerial experience and money to win
    You are suggesting the Tories should have as their candidate... a former Labour peer?

    Bold. If voting for Blair is enough to disqualify one as a "real Conservative", what does serving in Gordon Brown's government do?
    No, I was suggesting Sugar should run as an independent, he would be unlikely to win as a Tory
    I see. Not sure he wouldn't take more votes away from the Tory candidate than from Khan, to be honest. Little chance either way.
    If he got to the final 2, which he likely would, he could win with Tory preferences
    Pre-Trump, maybe. I doubt Londoners would risk putting the host of the Apprentice in office after what just happened in the US.
    Sugar was anti Trump anyway
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    He's the worst type of political low life. He thinks he's spotted a bandwagon and has quickly tried to jump on it. His timing was so poor however that he has missed and now even his own supporters will be wincing with embarrassment.

    Khan was already a shoo-in for re-election. If Bailey is the only meaningful opposition, the contest is already over.
    Con central office should use this opportunity to ditch a clearly failing candidate to be honest.
    Bailey is alright, I have met him, he is likeable and had a tough backstory.

    No other Tory candidate would be doing much better, London is a strongly Labour city now.

    The only candidate who might have had a chance of beating Khan is Lord Sugar who has the name recognition, managerial experience and money to win
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    He's the worst type of political low life. He thinks he's spotted a bandwagon and has quickly tried to jump on it. His timing was so poor however that he has missed and now even his own supporters will be wincing with embarrassment.

    Khan was already a shoo-in for re-election. If Bailey is the only meaningful opposition, the contest is already over.
    Con central office should use this opportunity to ditch a clearly failing candidate to be honest.
    Bailey is alright, I have met him, he is likeable and had a tough backstory.

    He’s trying to use the missing South London woman story against Khan and his record on crime, when she’s still missing and we don’t know whether alive or dead, and they’ve just arrested a serving policeman in connection. Which is pretty shabby politicking.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822
    DavidL said:

    Must say that this is turning into a fun* week:
    1. One of my oldest friends' separation from his wife (her fault) turned nasty when her mum made baseless serious allegations that led to his arrest. We're working hard to support him.
    2. One of my closest work friends is best mates with Sarah Everard. We're working hard to support her
    3. My son just rang to say that his mum is in hospital with acute kidney failure and her prognosis - if she survives the night - is poor. Yes we have had our serious disagreements and run-ins, but now working hard to support my son

    On the bright side a strong week from a work perspective...

    Blimey. Thanks for putting my grumps and moans into some sort of perspective. I wish you all the best in getting through what looks like a seriously hard shift.
    Yes, my leaking shed* roof seems very manageable now. Sorry to hear all that Rochdale. I wish I had f some words of consolation, but this is clearly a major low point. Hoping for resolutions and happier times for you in the months and years ahead.

    *shed understates it a little. It was bloody expensive and is not fulfilling its primary purpose, which was to be watertight. The builder who erected it is now not returning my calls. But still, it is only a shed.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,475
    Sympathies Rochdale. Well done for being a rock for those people.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428

    Paradoxically, as the Tories get more popular, they seem to get less popular in London.

    Its not a huge surprise. London is very different to much of the more rural countryside that makes up the Tory vote. I think its why those in the London bubble found Brexit so hard to fathom. No one they knew voted to leave, so who did?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    He's the worst type of political low life. He thinks he's spotted a bandwagon and has quickly tried to jump on it. His timing was so poor however that he has missed and now even his own supporters will be wincing with embarrassment.

    Khan was already a shoo-in for re-election. If Bailey is the only meaningful opposition, the contest is already over.
    Con central office should use this opportunity to ditch a clearly failing candidate to be honest.
    Bailey is alright, I have met him, he is likeable and had a tough backstory.

    No other Tory candidate would be doing much better, London is a strongly Labour city now.

    The only candidate who might have had a chance of beating Khan is Lord Sugar who has the name recognition, managerial experience and money to win
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Will Bailey still be mayoral candidate by end of the week?

    Possibly not. His tweet really is something special, implicitly criticising the current Mayor for not keeping the streets safe for women. His answer is, of course, more police officers. Surely he's read that it's a police officer that's been arrested for suspected murder? Poor timing doesn't begin to describe the stupidity or insensitiveness.
    Politicising individual crimes (as opposed to the general crime rate) before the full facts are known, is highly tempting but usually foolish.
    Of a pattern with Bailey, mind.
    He's the worst type of political low life. He thinks he's spotted a bandwagon and has quickly tried to jump on it. His timing was so poor however that he has missed and now even his own supporters will be wincing with embarrassment.

    Khan was already a shoo-in for re-election. If Bailey is the only meaningful opposition, the contest is already over.
    Con central office should use this opportunity to ditch a clearly failing candidate to be honest.
    Bailey is alright, I have met him, he is likeable and had a tough backstory.

    He’s trying to use the missing South London woman story against Khan and his record on crime, when she’s still missing and we don’t know whether alive or dead, and they’ve just arrested a serving policeman in connection. Which is pretty shabby politicking.
    If I lived in London I wouldn't be voting for Bailey which doesn't say much for his prospects. I would have voted for Rory. Now, I would probably just not bother (along with the majority of Londoners).
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,828
    HYUFD said:
    Is Rose so far ahead they have resorted to doing polling without him?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    HYUFD said:
    Is Rose so far ahead they have resorted to doing polling without him?
    Something like that. As much risk of troubling the scorers as an English opening bat.
This discussion has been closed.