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The great Trump problem for the Republicans – politicalbetting.com

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  • JonathanD said:

    Johnson, such a grifter

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1366520391200628738?s=20


    "An ally of Mr Johnson last night defended the charity plan, saying: 'Downing Street is as iconic as Windsor Castle but is in danger of becoming tatty because the Civil Service does everything on the cheap."

    What's the issue?

    Number 10 doesn't belong to Johnson, though he may live there for many, many years to come, it belongs to the state. Any refurbishments done stay with the state.

    So there's no reason why the state shouldn't pay for it.

    But if donors want to pay for it instead of the tax payer then that's fine by me. Let our taxes be spent on something else.

    What's the problem?
    The reason this sort of scheme shouldn't be touched with a bargepole is that the PM is essentially soliciting gifts that, to a large extent, benefit him and his family personally.

    You'd have to be pretty naive to think personal favours to the PM are done for purely altruistic reasons and, while you can't stop people being nice to you, getting into the game of asking people to buy you stuff is inviting trouble.

    Your argument that otherwise it would fall on the taxpayer is weak. The donors could pay to have a local school hall refurbished - that would otherwise fall on the taxpayer. The reason they'd rather pay for scatter cushions for Johnson is obvious.
    Some people really have too little to worry about.
    You're right - and some of those people spend their time devising ways to sponge free scatter cushions off businessmen.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    TimT said:

    Cookie said:

    TimT said:

    I was wondering if someone could elucidate for me what the successor state of the UK would be if Scotland gained independence. [Innocent face]

    Well, clearly the rest of the UK would go on being the UK.
    (And if Scotland goes, presumably NI goes too.)

    Now as an Englishman of Anglo-Scots descent, I have no particular problem with that. I like Scotland, but also like Ireland, and I don't have to be in a political union with it to go on liking it. It's not going to be any less adjacent upon gaining independence. It'll still be two and a half hours up the M6. England will be financially richer without Scotland, but strategically poorer - we will no longer control such a swathe of the North Atlantic. But the point is, if Scotland wants to go it alone, it's really up to them.

    But the big question remains - does 'England and Wales' still go on being called the UK? Or 'England and Wales'? And what does the flag look like - some kind of St. George's Cross / Welsh Dragon hybrid? I love the Welsh flag - it is one of the best flags in the world - but it would be odd to have the red dragon which, I believe, symbolises the fight against the white dragon of the English, on a flag representing Wales AND England. The only real way to resolve all this would be for England to declare independence from Wales.

    In all seriousness, while I'd mentally bid adieu to Scotland some time ago - and I haven't actually been since the noughties (are the English still welcome in Scotland these days?) - the last few weeks has awoken a nostalgic unionism. Maybe I liked Britain better when it was all one country. Before 1997 I rarely used the word England; I called myself British, and only ever used England when talking about sport. I had a board game when I was young - the Great Game of Britain - in which one travelled by train around the UK visiting either major visitor attractions or places significant to the history of rail. It never occurred to me in those days not to think of Scotland, Wales and NI as part of the same country. Scottish culture was part of my culture; a trip to Inverness no more or less exotic or exciting than a trip to Great Yarmouth or Penzance or Bangor. The sound of the bagpipes was unmistakably Scottish, but also unmistakably British. Nowadays, my mental map of home stops at the River Tweed. I half wonder if there is a way to return to the days - if they really existed - when we were one country. Sadly, I suspect not - the direction of devolution is one-way, the Scottish establishment and culture now seems firmly in the hands of the nationalists, and English unionism gave up caring some time ago.
    Sorry to put you through all that, Cookie. It was meant as an impish joke at HYUFD being HYUFD.

    BTW, I agree with pretty much all you said. Perhaps the rUK flag for England and Wales should be one of the two dragons fighting?
    That's OK - I suspected something like that. But it's a subject I have been spending some time (probably years!) mulling - emotionally, personally, what is my country, and what does it encompass. Once upon a time it certainly included Scotland. Now I'm not sure if it does. And I don't know how I feel about that, for reasons both trivial (the flag, the name) and profound (where, really, is home? What geography stirs the soul? How has the land raised you?)

    On the flag issue, I had thought of the two dragons! It wouldn't necessarily be a terribly inspiring national metaphor, if you drilled into it beyond any level of superficiality. But it would look fucking awesome.
    On a similar subject, have you read Watling Street by John Higgs? It's excellent - a long essay on what it means to be from this island - though his view is Anglo-Welsh and discusses Scotland only very briefly. It was a joy to read - it came out shortly after the EU referendum, and was the first thing I'd read on the subject which dealt with the culture and the meanings of the vote in scabrous detail without it ever really being apparent which side the author was on. Which made a refreshing change.
    I have not but on your recommendation, I shall.

    As a Anglo-Cornishman, I understand a preference for Britishness over Englishness or Scottishness, etc... But as a Brexit supporter (for small and agile reasons, not anti-immigration), I have to respect Scotland's right to self-determination on their own terms. I'd prefer they'd want to stay with the UK, but would wish them well if they chose to go. I cannot understand how a Madrid-style approach to Catalonia achieves anything good in the long term.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    TimT said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    TimT said:

    Cookie said:

    TimT said:

    I was wondering if someone could elucidate for me what the successor state of the UK would be if Scotland gained independence. [Innocent face]

    Well, clearly the rest of the UK would go on being the UK.
    (And if Scotland goes, presumably NI goes too.)

    Now as an Englishman of Anglo-Scots descent, I have no particular problem with that. I like Scotland, but also like Ireland, and I don't have to be in a political union with it to go on liking it. It's not going to be any less adjacent upon gaining independence. It'll still be two and a half hours up the M6. England will be financially richer without Scotland, but strategically poorer - we will no longer control such a swathe of the North Atlantic. But the point is, if Scotland wants to go it alone, it's really up to them.

    But the big question remains - does 'England and Wales' still go on being called the UK? Or 'England and Wales'? And what does the flag look like - some kind of St. George's Cross / Welsh Dragon hybrid? I love the Welsh flag - it is one of the best flags in the world - but it would be odd to have the red dragon which, I believe, symbolises the fight against the white dragon of the English, on a flag representing Wales AND England. The only real way to resolve all this would be for England to declare independence from Wales.

    In all seriousness, while I'd mentally bid adieu to Scotland some time ago - and I haven't actually been since the noughties (are the English still welcome in Scotland these days?) - the last few weeks has awoken a nostalgic unionism. Maybe I liked Britain better when it was all one country. Before 1997 I rarely used the word England; I called myself British, and only ever used England when talking about sport. I had a board game when I was young - the Great Game of Britain - in which one travelled by train around the UK visiting either major visitor attractions or places significant to the history of rail. It never occurred to me in those days not to think of Scotland, Wales and NI as part of the same country. Scottish culture was part of my culture; a trip to Inverness no more or less exotic or exciting than a trip to Great Yarmouth or Penzance or Bangor. The sound of the bagpipes was unmistakably Scottish, but also unmistakably British. Nowadays, my mental map of home stops at the River Tweed. I half wonder if there is a way to return to the days - if they really existed - when we were one country. Sadly, I suspect not - the direction of devolution is one-way, the Scottish establishment and culture now seems firmly in the hands of the nationalists, and English unionism gave up caring some time ago.
    Sorry to put you through all that, Cookie. It was meant as an impish joke at HYUFD being HYUFD.

    BTW, I agree with pretty much all you said. Perhaps the rUK flag for England and Wales should be one of the two dragons fighting?
    That's OK - I suspected something like that. But it's a subject I have been spending some time (probably years!) mulling - emotionally, personally, what is my country, and what does it encompass. Once upon a time it certainly included Scotland. Now I'm not sure if it does. And I don't know how I feel about that, for reasons both trivial (the flag, the name) and profound (where, really, is home? What geography stirs the soul? How has the land raised you?)

    On the flag issue, I had thought of the two dragons! It wouldn't necessarily be a terribly inspiring national metaphor, if you drilled into it beyond any level of superficiality. But it would look fucking awesome.
    On a similar subject, have you read Watling Street by John Higgs? It's excellent - a long essay on what it means to be from this island - though his view is Anglo-Welsh and discusses Scotland only very briefly. It was a joy to read - it came out shortly after the EU referendum, and was the first thing I'd read on the subject which dealt with the culture and the meanings of the vote in scabrous detail without it ever really being apparent which side the author was on. Which made a refreshing change.
    I have not but on your recommendation, I shall.

    As a Anglo-Cornishman, I understand a preference for Britishness over Englishness or Scottishness, etc... But as a Brexit supporter (for small and agile reasons, not anti-immigration), I have to respect Scotland's right to self-determination on their own terms. I'd prefer they'd want to stay with the UK, but would wish them well if they chose to go. I cannot understand how a Madrid-style approach to Catalonia achieves anything good in the long term.
    PS Re the flag, the two dragons rampant on a shield (with or without other emblems/flags in the quadrants) could be both cool and an inspiring - former enemies standing together.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    JonathanD said:

    Johnson, such a grifter

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1366520391200628738?s=20


    "An ally of Mr Johnson last night defended the charity plan, saying: 'Downing Street is as iconic as Windsor Castle but is in danger of becoming tatty because the Civil Service does everything on the cheap."

    What's the issue?

    Number 10 doesn't belong to Johnson, though he may live there for many, many years to come, it belongs to the state. Any refurbishments done stay with the state.

    So there's no reason why the state shouldn't pay for it.

    But if donors want to pay for it instead of the tax payer then that's fine by me. Let our taxes be spent on something else.

    What's the problem?
    The reason this sort of scheme shouldn't be touched with a bargepole is that the PM is essentially soliciting gifts that, to a large extent, benefit him and his family personally.

    You'd have to be pretty naive to think personal favours to the PM are done for purely altruistic reasons and, while you can't stop people being nice to you, getting into the game of asking people to buy you stuff is inviting trouble.

    Your argument that otherwise it would fall on the taxpayer is weak. The donors could pay to have a local school hall refurbished - that would otherwise fall on the taxpayer. The reason they'd rather pay for scatter cushions for Johnson is obvious.
    Some people really have too little to worry about.
    You're right - and some of those people spend their time devising ways to sponge free scatter cushions off businessmen.
    Perhaps they just need a way to unwind in the brief intervals between leading the world in vaccines and crushing the opposition...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Leon said:
    That was obvious when they used the word "key".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Floater said:
    Or they've finally all had it.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Leon said:
    I must have completely failed to understand the bit in my biology a level where I THOUGHT I was told that one sperm from the father fertilised one egg from the mother.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    RobD said:

    Floater said:
    Or they've finally all had it.
    While you're joking (mostly), CV19 absolutely decimated the hospitals here late last year.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    Cuomo Accused of Unwanted Advance at a Wedding: ‘Can I Kiss You?’

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/01/nyregion/cuomo-harassment-anna-ruch.html

    That's the 3rd woman who has come forward now making these type of allegations.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Cuomo Accused of Unwanted Advance at a Wedding: ‘Can I Kiss You?’

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/01/nyregion/cuomo-harassment-anna-ruch.html

    That's the 3rd woman who has come forward now making these type of allegations.

    Worst pandemic response in the USA - Democrats standing with him.
    Flirting with a woman at a wedding - Democrats calling for his head.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,215

    JonathanD said:

    Johnson, such a grifter

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1366520391200628738?s=20


    "An ally of Mr Johnson last night defended the charity plan, saying: 'Downing Street is as iconic as Windsor Castle but is in danger of becoming tatty because the Civil Service does everything on the cheap."

    What's the issue?

    Number 10 doesn't belong to Johnson, though he may live there for many, many years to come, it belongs to the state. Any refurbishments done stay with the state.

    So there's no reason why the state shouldn't pay for it.

    But if donors want to pay for it instead of the tax payer then that's fine by me. Let our taxes be spent on something else.

    What's the problem?
    The reason this sort of scheme shouldn't be touched with a bargepole is that the PM is essentially soliciting gifts that, to a large extent, benefit him and his family personally.

    You'd have to be pretty naive to think personal favours to the PM are done for purely altruistic reasons and, while you can't stop people being nice to you, getting into the game of asking people to buy you stuff is inviting trouble.

    Your argument that otherwise it would fall on the taxpayer is weak. The donors could pay to have a local school hall refurbished - that would otherwise fall on the taxpayer. The reason they'd rather pay for scatter cushions for Johnson is obvious.
    Some people really have too little to worry about.
    You're right - and some of those people spend their time devising ways to sponge free scatter cushions off businessmen.
    What puzzles me is in what way this activity was supposed to be granted charitable status.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,215
    Is this going to bring down the Australian government ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-56178290
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    Just been reading about the proposed "charity" for refurbing Nos 10/11 Downing Street - not sure how it will go down. I for one are not sure about the whole project. BJ's finacee doesnt come out well (have PM's other halves ever done well in media... since the sympathy for Norma Major or fun poking at D Thatcher
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Meanwhile, the French authorities try to hawk their unwanted Oxford jabs to sceptical oldies - whilst simultaneously reinforcing their message that they are inferior...

    The French government says older people with pre-existing conditions can now get AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine, revising its stance on the issue.

    "People affected by co-morbidities can be vaccinated with AstraZeneca, including those aged between 65 and 74," the health minister said.

    ...

    Speaking on France 2 television late on Monday, French Health Minister Olivier Véran said people with pre-existing conditions could get the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine from GP surgeries, hospitals and "within days" from pharmacies.

    Those aged over 75 will still be offered either Pfizer or Moderna jabs in a vaccination centre, he added.

    In January French President Emmanuel Macron said the AstraZeneca vaccine was "quasi-ineffective" for older age groups - a claim strongly rejected at the time by the UK officials and scientists.

    But as more data has emerged, French health officials have tried to convince people that it is just as safe and effective as other Covid-19 vaccine, AFP news agency reports.

    Just 273,000 AstraZeneca doses have been administered in France out of 1.7m received by the end of February, health ministry figures show.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56242617

    This is going to end well, isn't it?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited March 2021
    On Devolution:

    In Hull, the city council has teamed up with nearby East Riding of Yorkshire to submit a proposal to government for a devolution deal which, if approved, would mean an elected mayor for the area.

    In a joint statement, the two council leaders describe it as an exciting opportunity that could attract investment and result in more local decision-making .

    So do people in Hull agree?

    In the city centre, several people expressed the view that the government was too remote, with one woman saying: "They don't know how we live in the North. I think we're at the end of the line. We're forgotten."

    But while there was support for the idea of a mayor with some power, it wasn't universal.

    "I think there's plenty of scope for local choice now," one man said. "When it goes bad, they blame Westminster; when it goes good, they take the praise for it. I don't think a local mayor with political power would change anything."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56215352

    As it so happens, I think that stronger local Government should be beneficial if properly resourced, but people have seen what's happened elsewhere. You can't blame them for being sceptical.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    I assume Nicola Sturgeon's grilling on Wednesday was timetabled to be massively overshadowed by The Budget?
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464

    On Devolution:

    In Hull, the city council has teamed up with nearby East Riding of Yorkshire to submit a proposal to government for a devolution deal which, if approved, would mean an elected mayor for the area.

    In a joint statement, the two council leaders describe it as an exciting opportunity that could attract investment and result in more local decision-making .

    So do people in Hull agree?

    In the city centre, several people expressed the view that the government was too remote, with one woman saying: "They don't know how we live in the North. I think we're at the end of the line. We're forgotten."

    But while there was support for the idea of a mayor with some power, it wasn't universal.

    "I think there's plenty of scope for local choice now," one man said. "When it goes bad, they blame Westminster; when it goes good, they take the praise for it. I don't think a local mayor with political power would change anything."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56215352

    As it so happens, I think that stronger local Government should be beneficial if properly resourced, but people have seen what's happened elsewhere. You can't blame them for being sceptical.

    I agree, the Police Commissioners have had little impact on most people's experience of policing and yet we elect them (on not a great turnout). Can anyone point to a locally elected politician who has made a real difference in last 12 months (even Andy Burnham was eventually slapped down)....
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,421

    On Devolution:

    In Hull, the city council has teamed up with nearby East Riding of Yorkshire to submit a proposal to government for a devolution deal which, if approved, would mean an elected mayor for the area.

    In a joint statement, the two council leaders describe it as an exciting opportunity that could attract investment and result in more local decision-making .

    So do people in Hull agree?

    In the city centre, several people expressed the view that the government was too remote, with one woman saying: "They don't know how we live in the North. I think we're at the end of the line. We're forgotten."

    But while there was support for the idea of a mayor with some power, it wasn't universal.

    "I think there's plenty of scope for local choice now," one man said. "When it goes bad, they blame Westminster; when it goes good, they take the praise for it. I don't think a local mayor with political power would change anything."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56215352

    As it so happens, I think that stronger local Government should be beneficial if properly resourced, but people have seen what's happened elsewhere. You can't blame them for being sceptical.

    I agree, the Police Commissioners have had little impact on most people's experience of policing and yet we elect them (on not a great turnout). Can anyone point to a locally elected politician who has made a real difference in last 12 months (even Andy Burnham was eventually slapped down)....
    For reasons of news notability we mostly hear about local politicians when something goes seriously wrong, such as with the arrests in Liverpool, rather than about modest success, which might take years to accumulate.

    If a local politician had done well, I wouldn't expect to know about it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    On Devolution:

    In Hull, the city council has teamed up with nearby East Riding of Yorkshire to submit a proposal to government for a devolution deal which, if approved, would mean an elected mayor for the area.

    In a joint statement, the two council leaders describe it as an exciting opportunity that could attract investment and result in more local decision-making .

    So do people in Hull agree?

    In the city centre, several people expressed the view that the government was too remote, with one woman saying: "They don't know how we live in the North. I think we're at the end of the line. We're forgotten."

    But while there was support for the idea of a mayor with some power, it wasn't universal.

    "I think there's plenty of scope for local choice now," one man said. "When it goes bad, they blame Westminster; when it goes good, they take the praise for it. I don't think a local mayor with political power would change anything."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56215352

    As it so happens, I think that stronger local Government should be beneficial if properly resourced, but people have seen what's happened elsewhere. You can't blame them for being sceptical.

    I agree, the Police Commissioners have had little impact on most people's experience of policing and yet we elect them (on not a great turnout). Can anyone point to a locally elected politician who has made a real difference in last 12 months (even Andy Burnham was eventually slapped down)....
    For reasons of news notability we mostly hear about local politicians when something goes seriously wrong, such as with the arrests in Liverpool, rather than about modest success, which might take years to accumulate.

    If a local politician had done well, I wouldn't expect to know about it.
    That’s true. With the exception of London, the only time local politicians make the national news is if something goes wrong. Even Burnham and Street have been quiet outside their own areas for the last few years.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,804
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: some new specials up at Ladbrokes.

    Sainz to outscore Leclerc 2.75 - unlikely in my view, though I rate Sainz. Leclerc is Ferrari's overt number one, as well as being a very good driver.

    George Russell to have a Mercedes seat in 2022 1.67 - got a good chance but the odds are rubbish for something that might happen 11 months down the line.

    McLaren to come 2nd in this year's Constructors' 6 - I hope McLaren can improve a lot but this is almost certainly a silly bet.

    McLaren to finish in the top 3 is at 3 - these odds are not very appealing. I anticipate Ferrari bouncing back, but even if they don't Alpine and Aston Martin will be pushing McLaren very hard.

    Williams to finish top 8 at 2.1 - Haas' decision to do zero development this year may open the door for Williams to beat them. But who else? AlphaTauri were pretty good last year. Alfa Romeo less so but still a clear margin above Williams.

    Mick Schumacher to win a race by 2023 at 1.8 - not tempted. He has very little chance in the Haas, and better bets will come along if he graduates to a top team.

    In short, easy markets to ignore. Of the new specials, the Sainz bet is closest one to being tempting.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    Sandpit said:

    On Devolution:

    In Hull, the city council has teamed up with nearby East Riding of Yorkshire to submit a proposal to government for a devolution deal which, if approved, would mean an elected mayor for the area.

    In a joint statement, the two council leaders describe it as an exciting opportunity that could attract investment and result in more local decision-making .

    So do people in Hull agree?

    In the city centre, several people expressed the view that the government was too remote, with one woman saying: "They don't know how we live in the North. I think we're at the end of the line. We're forgotten."

    But while there was support for the idea of a mayor with some power, it wasn't universal.

    "I think there's plenty of scope for local choice now," one man said. "When it goes bad, they blame Westminster; when it goes good, they take the praise for it. I don't think a local mayor with political power would change anything."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56215352

    As it so happens, I think that stronger local Government should be beneficial if properly resourced, but people have seen what's happened elsewhere. You can't blame them for being sceptical.

    I agree, the Police Commissioners have had little impact on most people's experience of policing and yet we elect them (on not a great turnout). Can anyone point to a locally elected politician who has made a real difference in last 12 months (even Andy Burnham was eventually slapped down)....
    For reasons of news notability we mostly hear about local politicians when something goes seriously wrong, such as with the arrests in Liverpool, rather than about modest success, which might take years to accumulate.

    If a local politician had done well, I wouldn't expect to know about it.
    That’s true. With the exception of London, the only time local politicians make the national news is if something goes wrong. Even Burnham and Street have been quiet outside their own areas for the last few years.
    I wonder if one of the issues here is the demise of local papers. Most people’s news sources are either national/international (the national media or, more likely, the internet) or very local (neighbourhood Facebook groups etc.). The Bucks Free Press is my local paper and I haven’t read it for ages. If the local council were up to something I’m not sure how I would know.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,421
    Sandpit said:

    On Devolution:

    In Hull, the city council has teamed up with nearby East Riding of Yorkshire to submit a proposal to government for a devolution deal which, if approved, would mean an elected mayor for the area.

    In a joint statement, the two council leaders describe it as an exciting opportunity that could attract investment and result in more local decision-making .

    So do people in Hull agree?

    In the city centre, several people expressed the view that the government was too remote, with one woman saying: "They don't know how we live in the North. I think we're at the end of the line. We're forgotten."

    But while there was support for the idea of a mayor with some power, it wasn't universal.

    "I think there's plenty of scope for local choice now," one man said. "When it goes bad, they blame Westminster; when it goes good, they take the praise for it. I don't think a local mayor with political power would change anything."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56215352

    As it so happens, I think that stronger local Government should be beneficial if properly resourced, but people have seen what's happened elsewhere. You can't blame them for being sceptical.

    I agree, the Police Commissioners have had little impact on most people's experience of policing and yet we elect them (on not a great turnout). Can anyone point to a locally elected politician who has made a real difference in last 12 months (even Andy Burnham was eventually slapped down)....
    For reasons of news notability we mostly hear about local politicians when something goes seriously wrong, such as with the arrests in Liverpool, rather than about modest success, which might take years to accumulate.

    If a local politician had done well, I wouldn't expect to know about it.
    That’s true. With the exception of London, the only time local politicians make the national news is if something goes wrong. Even Burnham and Street have been quiet outside their own areas for the last few years.
    I think it's also true that, aside from in response to an external crisis, success takes longer than failure.
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257

    JonathanD said:

    Johnson, such a grifter

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1366520391200628738?s=20


    "An ally of Mr Johnson last night defended the charity plan, saying: 'Downing Street is as iconic as Windsor Castle but is in danger of becoming tatty because the Civil Service does everything on the cheap."

    What's the issue?

    Number 10 doesn't belong to Johnson, though he may live there for many, many years to come, it belongs to the state. Any refurbishments done stay with the state.

    So there's no reason why the state shouldn't pay for it.

    But if donors want to pay for it instead of the tax payer then that's fine by me. Let our taxes be spent on something else.

    What's the problem?
    The reason this sort of scheme shouldn't be touched with a bargepole is that the PM is essentially soliciting gifts that, to a large extent, benefit him and his family personally.

    You'd have to be pretty naive to think personal favours to the PM are done for purely altruistic reasons and, while you can't stop people being nice to you, getting into the game of asking people to buy you stuff is inviting trouble.

    Your argument that otherwise it would fall on the taxpayer is weak. The donors could pay to have a local school hall refurbished - that would otherwise fall on the taxpayer. The reason they'd rather pay for scatter cushions for Johnson is obvious.
    Some people really have too little to worry about.
    You're right - and some of those people spend their time devising ways to sponge free scatter cushions off businessmen.
    There are some great quotes in that DM piece, reproducing here for those who do not wish to sully themselves with the sidebar of shame.

    Mr Johnson has complained the cost of the refurbishment by Carrie Symonds was 'totally out of control', the Daily Mail has been told. He reportedly said during one meeting that the sum amounted to 'tens and tens of thousands'. On another occasion he said it was 'over a hundred grand'.
    It's that old story... boy meets girl, boy divorces longstanding wife and mother of kids, girl gets knocked up, girl spends over a hundred grand on wallpaper, boy sets up sham charity to bail himself out.

    'The makeover is appropriate for a building of such huge importance,' said one. 'Carrie has exquisite taste. It is classic, stunning, stylish and chic. She should be congratulated not criticised.'

    Who the f**k writes this stuff. Jeeze, it's government by teenage girls.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,804
    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083

    Just been reading about the proposed "charity" for refurbing Nos 10/11 Downing Street - not sure how it will go down. I for one are not sure about the whole project. BJ's finacee doesnt come out well (have PM's other halves ever done well in media... since the sympathy for Norma Major or fun poking at D Thatcher

    Sarah Brown and Sam Cam did well in the media.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,823
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    TimT said:

    Cookie said:

    TimT said:

    I was wondering if someone could elucidate for me what the successor state of the UK would be if Scotland gained independence. [Innocent face]

    Well, clearly the rest of the UK would go on being the UK.
    (And if Scotland goes, presumably NI goes too.)

    Now as an Englishman of Anglo-Scots descent, I have no particular problem with that. I like Scotland, but also like Ireland, and I don't have to be in a political union with it to go on liking it. It's not going to be any less adjacent upon gaining independence. It'll still be two and a half hours up the M6. England will be financially richer without Scotland, but strategically poorer - we will no longer control such a swathe of the North Atlantic. But the point is, if Scotland wants to go it alone, it's really up to them.

    But the big question remains - does 'England and Wales' still go on being called the UK? Or 'England and Wales'? And what does the flag look like - some kind of St. George's Cross / Welsh Dragon hybrid? I love the Welsh flag - it is one of the best flags in the world - but it would be odd to have the red dragon which, I believe, symbolises the fight against the white dragon of the English, on a flag representing Wales AND England. The only real way to resolve all this would be for England to declare independence from Wales.

    In all seriousness, while I'd mentally bid adieu to Scotland some time ago - and I haven't actually been since the noughties (are the English still welcome in Scotland these days?) - the last few weeks has awoken a nostalgic unionism. Maybe I liked Britain better when it was all one country. Before 1997 I rarely used the word England; I called myself British, and only ever used England when talking about sport. I had a board game when I was young - the Great Game of Britain - in which one travelled by train around the UK visiting either major visitor attractions or places significant to the history of rail. It never occurred to me in those days not to think of Scotland, Wales and NI as part of the same country. Scottish culture was part of my culture; a trip to Inverness no more or less exotic or exciting than a trip to Great Yarmouth or Penzance or Bangor. The sound of the bagpipes was unmistakably Scottish, but also unmistakably British. Nowadays, my mental map of home stops at the River Tweed. I half wonder if there is a way to return to the days - if they really existed - when we were one country. Sadly, I suspect not - the direction of devolution is one-way, the Scottish establishment and culture now seems firmly in the hands of the nationalists, and English unionism gave up caring some time ago.
    Sorry to put you through all that, Cookie. It was meant as an impish joke at HYUFD being HYUFD.

    BTW, I agree with pretty much all you said. Perhaps the rUK flag for England and Wales should be one of the two dragons fighting?
    That's OK - I suspected something like that. But it's a subject I have been spending some time (probably years!) mulling - emotionally, personally, what is my country, and what does it encompass. Once upon a time it certainly included Scotland. Now I'm not sure if it does. And I don't know how I feel about that, for reasons both trivial (the flag, the name) and profound (where, really, is home? What geography stirs the soul? How has the land raised you?)

    On the flag issue, I had thought of the two dragons! It wouldn't necessarily be a terribly inspiring national metaphor, if you drilled into it beyond any level of superficiality. But it would look fucking awesome.
    On a similar subject, have you read Watling Street by John Higgs? It's excellent - a long essay on what it means to be from this island - though his view is Anglo-Welsh and discusses Scotland only very briefly. It was a joy to read - it came out shortly after the EU referendum, and was the first thing I'd read on the subject which dealt with the culture and the meanings of the vote in scabrous detail without it ever really being apparent which side the author was on. Which made a refreshing change.
    I have not but on your recommendation, I shall.

    As a Anglo-Cornishman, I understand a preference for Britishness over Englishness or Scottishness, etc... But as a Brexit supporter (for small and agile reasons, not anti-immigration), I have to respect Scotland's right to self-determination on their own terms. I'd prefer they'd want to stay with the UK, but would wish them well if they chose to go. I cannot understand how a Madrid-style approach to Catalonia achieves anything good in the long term.
    PS Re the flag, the two dragons rampant on a shield (with or without other emblems/flags in the quadrants) could be both cool and an inspiring - former enemies standing together.
    Mr. T, I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one to massively overthink this sort of thing!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,823

    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    This all happened 23 years ago with Derry Irvine. The issue here isn't so much the sense of entitlement as the complete tin ear for what a normal amount to pay for redecoration is.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    guybrush said:

    JonathanD said:

    Johnson, such a grifter

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1366520391200628738?s=20


    "An ally of Mr Johnson last night defended the charity plan, saying: 'Downing Street is as iconic as Windsor Castle but is in danger of becoming tatty because the Civil Service does everything on the cheap."

    What's the issue?

    Number 10 doesn't belong to Johnson, though he may live there for many, many years to come, it belongs to the state. Any refurbishments done stay with the state.

    So there's no reason why the state shouldn't pay for it.

    But if donors want to pay for it instead of the tax payer then that's fine by me. Let our taxes be spent on something else.

    What's the problem?
    The reason this sort of scheme shouldn't be touched with a bargepole is that the PM is essentially soliciting gifts that, to a large extent, benefit him and his family personally.

    You'd have to be pretty naive to think personal favours to the PM are done for purely altruistic reasons and, while you can't stop people being nice to you, getting into the game of asking people to buy you stuff is inviting trouble.

    Your argument that otherwise it would fall on the taxpayer is weak. The donors could pay to have a local school hall refurbished - that would otherwise fall on the taxpayer. The reason they'd rather pay for scatter cushions for Johnson is obvious.
    Some people really have too little to worry about.
    You're right - and some of those people spend their time devising ways to sponge free scatter cushions off businessmen.
    There are some great quotes in that DM piece, reproducing here for those who do not wish to sully themselves with the sidebar of shame.

    Mr Johnson has complained the cost of the refurbishment by Carrie Symonds was 'totally out of control', the Daily Mail has been told. He reportedly said during one meeting that the sum amounted to 'tens and tens of thousands'. On another occasion he said it was 'over a hundred grand'.
    It's that old story... boy meets girl, boy divorces longstanding wife and mother of kids, girl gets knocked up, girl spends over a hundred grand on wallpaper, boy sets up sham charity to bail himself out.

    'The makeover is appropriate for a building of such huge importance,' said one. 'Carrie has exquisite taste. It is classic, stunning, stylish and chic. She should be congratulated not criticised.'

    Who the f**k writes this stuff. Jeeze, it's government by teenage girls.

    Just because Johnson can get away with anything NutNut shouldn't assume she can. Grandesignsgate could have cut through with the humble shit munchers.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462
    Cookie said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    TimT said:

    Cookie said:

    TimT said:

    I was wondering if someone could elucidate for me what the successor state of the UK would be if Scotland gained independence. [Innocent face]

    Well, clearly the rest of the UK would go on being the UK.
    (And if Scotland goes, presumably NI goes too.)

    Now as an Englishman of Anglo-Scots descent, I have no particular problem with that. I like Scotland, but also like Ireland, and I don't have to be in a political union with it to go on liking it. It's not going to be any less adjacent upon gaining independence. It'll still be two and a half hours up the M6. England will be financially richer without Scotland, but strategically poorer - we will no longer control such a swathe of the North Atlantic. But the point is, if Scotland wants to go it alone, it's really up to them.

    But the big question remains - does 'England and Wales' still go on being called the UK? Or 'England and Wales'? And what does the flag look like - some kind of St. George's Cross / Welsh Dragon hybrid? I love the Welsh flag - it is one of the best flags in the world - but it would be odd to have the red dragon which, I believe, symbolises the fight against the white dragon of the English, on a flag representing Wales AND England. The only real way to resolve all this would be for England to declare independence from Wales.

    In all seriousness, while I'd mentally bid adieu to Scotland some time ago - and I haven't actually been since the noughties (are the English still welcome in Scotland these days?) - the last few weeks has awoken a nostalgic unionism. Maybe I liked Britain better when it was all one country. Before 1997 I rarely used the word England; I called myself British, and only ever used England when talking about sport. I had a board game when I was young - the Great Game of Britain - in which one travelled by train around the UK visiting either major visitor attractions or places significant to the history of rail. It never occurred to me in those days not to think of Scotland, Wales and NI as part of the same country. Scottish culture was part of my culture; a trip to Inverness no more or less exotic or exciting than a trip to Great Yarmouth or Penzance or Bangor. The sound of the bagpipes was unmistakably Scottish, but also unmistakably British. Nowadays, my mental map of home stops at the River Tweed. I half wonder if there is a way to return to the days - if they really existed - when we were one country. Sadly, I suspect not - the direction of devolution is one-way, the Scottish establishment and culture now seems firmly in the hands of the nationalists, and English unionism gave up caring some time ago.
    Sorry to put you through all that, Cookie. It was meant as an impish joke at HYUFD being HYUFD.

    BTW, I agree with pretty much all you said. Perhaps the rUK flag for England and Wales should be one of the two dragons fighting?
    That's OK - I suspected something like that. But it's a subject I have been spending some time (probably years!) mulling - emotionally, personally, what is my country, and what does it encompass. Once upon a time it certainly included Scotland. Now I'm not sure if it does. And I don't know how I feel about that, for reasons both trivial (the flag, the name) and profound (where, really, is home? What geography stirs the soul? How has the land raised you?)

    On the flag issue, I had thought of the two dragons! It wouldn't necessarily be a terribly inspiring national metaphor, if you drilled into it beyond any level of superficiality. But it would look fucking awesome.
    On a similar subject, have you read Watling Street by John Higgs? It's excellent - a long essay on what it means to be from this island - though his view is Anglo-Welsh and discusses Scotland only very briefly. It was a joy to read - it came out shortly after the EU referendum, and was the first thing I'd read on the subject which dealt with the culture and the meanings of the vote in scabrous detail without it ever really being apparent which side the author was on. Which made a refreshing change.
    I have not but on your recommendation, I shall.

    As a Anglo-Cornishman, I understand a preference for Britishness over Englishness or Scottishness, etc... But as a Brexit supporter (for small and agile reasons, not anti-immigration), I have to respect Scotland's right to self-determination on their own terms. I'd prefer they'd want to stay with the UK, but would wish them well if they chose to go. I cannot understand how a Madrid-style approach to Catalonia achieves anything good in the long term.
    PS Re the flag, the two dragons rampant on a shield (with or without other emblems/flags in the quadrants) could be both cool and an inspiring - former enemies standing together.
    Mr. T, I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one to massively overthink this sort of thing!
    The Saxon symbol was white dragon!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    On these airpod incidents, it emphasises a philsoophy that white ear buds are better than black ear buds.

    Clearly white supremacist, and #BLM should get on it.

    Innit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    I have been reading the back thread with amazement. Did Hyufd really take my flippant remark about England being the union of more than one kingdom and spend all night arguing about what would happen if Northumbria seceded?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    Nigelb said:

    What are the UK government procedures for retaining notes of such meetings ?

    In the US there’s a legal obligation to retain such written records - what are the rules here ?

    BoZo only requires that he be photographed at the meeting
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    What are the UK government procedures for retaining notes of such meetings ?

    In the US there’s a legal obligation to retain such written records - what are the rules here ?

    BoZo only requires that he be photographed at the meeting
    Or if there’s likely to be trouble, that a fridge be provided.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,804
    Mr. Cookie, aye, if repairs are made for maintenance or a knackered casement is replaced that's fine.

    If I replace a chipped made with a bone china antique from the Ming Dynasty, that's another matter.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    edited March 2021
    guybrush said:

    Who the f**k writes this stuff. Jeeze, it's government by teenage girls.

    There is a separate story that the government are buying copy in the Mail and Express to say how brilliant Brexit is.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    On topic I think that the Republicans will come to regret not voting for the impeachment and subsequent banning of Trump. The likelihood is that other legal misadventures and quite possibly insolvency will rule him out. But it is a risk and one they could have avoided.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    Morning all.

    Is it really 8am already?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    I may have missed it, did Phil get his test results?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Is it really 8am already?

    No, that’s what Bill Gates wants you to think. In reality it’s about 2.30 and he’s stolen 5.5 hours of rest from you.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236

    Sandpit said:

    On Devolution:

    In Hull, the city council has teamed up with nearby East Riding of Yorkshire to submit a proposal to government for a devolution deal which, if approved, would mean an elected mayor for the area.

    In a joint statement, the two council leaders describe it as an exciting opportunity that could attract investment and result in more local decision-making .

    So do people in Hull agree?

    In the city centre, several people expressed the view that the government was too remote, with one woman saying: "They don't know how we live in the North. I think we're at the end of the line. We're forgotten."

    But while there was support for the idea of a mayor with some power, it wasn't universal.

    "I think there's plenty of scope for local choice now," one man said. "When it goes bad, they blame Westminster; when it goes good, they take the praise for it. I don't think a local mayor with political power would change anything."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56215352

    As it so happens, I think that stronger local Government should be beneficial if properly resourced, but people have seen what's happened elsewhere. You can't blame them for being sceptical.

    I agree, the Police Commissioners have had little impact on most people's experience of policing and yet we elect them (on not a great turnout). Can anyone point to a locally elected politician who has made a real difference in last 12 months (even Andy Burnham was eventually slapped down)....
    For reasons of news notability we mostly hear about local politicians when something goes seriously wrong, such as with the arrests in Liverpool, rather than about modest success, which might take years to accumulate.

    If a local politician had done well, I wouldn't expect to know about it.
    That’s true. With the exception of London, the only time local politicians make the national news is if something goes wrong. Even Burnham and Street have been quiet outside their own areas for the last few years.
    I wonder if one of the issues here is the demise of local papers. Most people’s news sources are either national/international (the national media or, more likely, the internet) or very local (neighbourhood Facebook groups etc.). The Bucks Free Press is my local paper and I haven’t read it for ages. If the local council were up to something I’m not sure how I would know.
    I have not got an overall assessment of how local news blogs are doing, but there are certainly more than a few out there.

    One example is On The Wight, which started out as Ventnorblog in 2007 or so. It has always had professional staff plus a local voluntary network.
    https://onthewight.com/

    One of their early local controversies was being to be thrown out of a local council meeting for attempting to record it.

    I don't follow this space in detail these days. I wonder if the BBC based local news support operation is linked in with such sites.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: some new specials up at Ladbrokes.

    Sainz to outscore Leclerc 2.75 - unlikely in my view, though I rate Sainz. Leclerc is Ferrari's overt number one, as well as being a very good driver.

    George Russell to have a Mercedes seat in 2022 1.67 - got a good chance but the odds are rubbish for something that might happen 11 months down the line.

    McLaren to come 2nd in this year's Constructors' 6 - I hope McLaren can improve a lot but this is almost certainly a silly bet.

    McLaren to finish in the top 3 is at 3 - these odds are not very appealing. I anticipate Ferrari bouncing back, but even if they don't Alpine and Aston Martin will be pushing McLaren very hard.

    Williams to finish top 8 at 2.1 - Haas' decision to do zero development this year may open the door for Williams to beat them. But who else? AlphaTauri were pretty good last year. Alfa Romeo less so but still a clear margin above Williams.

    Mick Schumacher to win a race by 2023 at 1.8 - not tempted. He has very little chance in the Haas, and better bets will come along if he graduates to a top team.

    In short, easy markets to ignore. Of the new specials, the Sainz bet is closest one to being tempting.

    I have £10 on McLaren to win at 90/1 from December. Those odds were value (it's now 50/1) but none of the ones above are and a lot of them are long term (8 months) for very little reward.


  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,258

    Cookie said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    TimT said:

    Cookie said:

    TimT said:

    I was wondering if someone could elucidate for me what the successor state of the UK would be if Scotland gained independence. [Innocent face]

    Well, clearly the rest of the UK would go on being the UK.
    (And if Scotland goes, presumably NI goes too.)

    Now as an Englishman of Anglo-Scots descent, I have no particular problem with that. I like Scotland, but also like Ireland, and I don't have to be in a political union with it to go on liking it. It's not going to be any less adjacent upon gaining independence. It'll still be two and a half hours up the M6. England will be financially richer without Scotland, but strategically poorer - we will no longer control such a swathe of the North Atlantic. But the point is, if Scotland wants to go it alone, it's really up to them.

    But the big question remains - does 'England and Wales' still go on being called the UK? Or 'England and Wales'? And what does the flag look like - some kind of St. George's Cross / Welsh Dragon hybrid? I love the Welsh flag - it is one of the best flags in the world - but it would be odd to have the red dragon which, I believe, symbolises the fight against the white dragon of the English, on a flag representing Wales AND England. The only real way to resolve all this would be for England to declare independence from Wales.

    In all seriousness, while I'd mentally bid adieu to Scotland some time ago - and I haven't actually been since the noughties (are the English still welcome in Scotland these days?) - the last few weeks has awoken a nostalgic unionism. Maybe I liked Britain better when it was all one country. Before 1997 I rarely used the word England; I called myself British, and only ever used England when talking about sport. I had a board game when I was young - the Great Game of Britain - in which one travelled by train around the UK visiting either major visitor attractions or places significant to the history of rail. It never occurred to me in those days not to think of Scotland, Wales and NI as part of the same country. Scottish culture was part of my culture; a trip to Inverness no more or less exotic or exciting than a trip to Great Yarmouth or Penzance or Bangor. The sound of the bagpipes was unmistakably Scottish, but also unmistakably British. Nowadays, my mental map of home stops at the River Tweed. I half wonder if there is a way to return to the days - if they really existed - when we were one country. Sadly, I suspect not - the direction of devolution is one-way, the Scottish establishment and culture now seems firmly in the hands of the nationalists, and English unionism gave up caring some time ago.
    Sorry to put you through all that, Cookie. It was meant as an impish joke at HYUFD being HYUFD.

    BTW, I agree with pretty much all you said. Perhaps the rUK flag for England and Wales should be one of the two dragons fighting?
    That's OK - I suspected something like that. But it's a subject I have been spending some time (probably years!) mulling - emotionally, personally, what is my country, and what does it encompass. Once upon a time it certainly included Scotland. Now I'm not sure if it does. And I don't know how I feel about that, for reasons both trivial (the flag, the name) and profound (where, really, is home? What geography stirs the soul? How has the land raised you?)

    On the flag issue, I had thought of the two dragons! It wouldn't necessarily be a terribly inspiring national metaphor, if you drilled into it beyond any level of superficiality. But it would look fucking awesome.
    On a similar subject, have you read Watling Street by John Higgs? It's excellent - a long essay on what it means to be from this island - though his view is Anglo-Welsh and discusses Scotland only very briefly. It was a joy to read - it came out shortly after the EU referendum, and was the first thing I'd read on the subject which dealt with the culture and the meanings of the vote in scabrous detail without it ever really being apparent which side the author was on. Which made a refreshing change.
    I have not but on your recommendation, I shall.

    As a Anglo-Cornishman, I understand a preference for Britishness over Englishness or Scottishness, etc... But as a Brexit supporter (for small and agile reasons, not anti-immigration), I have to respect Scotland's right to self-determination on their own terms. I'd prefer they'd want to stay with the UK, but would wish them well if they chose to go. I cannot understand how a Madrid-style approach to Catalonia achieves anything good in the long term.
    PS Re the flag, the two dragons rampant on a shield (with or without other emblems/flags in the quadrants) could be both cool and an inspiring - former enemies standing together.
    Mr. T, I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one to massively overthink this sort of thing!
    The Saxon symbol was white dragon!
    Wales also has a "cross" flag which could be combined with the flag of St George (and maybe St Piran) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Saint_David?wprov=sfla1
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,215
    Sandpit said:

    On Devolution:

    In Hull, the city council has teamed up with nearby East Riding of Yorkshire to submit a proposal to government for a devolution deal which, if approved, would mean an elected mayor for the area.

    In a joint statement, the two council leaders describe it as an exciting opportunity that could attract investment and result in more local decision-making .

    So do people in Hull agree?

    In the city centre, several people expressed the view that the government was too remote, with one woman saying: "They don't know how we live in the North. I think we're at the end of the line. We're forgotten."

    But while there was support for the idea of a mayor with some power, it wasn't universal.

    "I think there's plenty of scope for local choice now," one man said. "When it goes bad, they blame Westminster; when it goes good, they take the praise for it. I don't think a local mayor with political power would change anything."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56215352

    As it so happens, I think that stronger local Government should be beneficial if properly resourced, but people have seen what's happened elsewhere. You can't blame them for being sceptical.

    I agree, the Police Commissioners have had little impact on most people's experience of policing and yet we elect them (on not a great turnout). Can anyone point to a locally elected politician who has made a real difference in last 12 months (even Andy Burnham was eventually slapped down)....
    For reasons of news notability we mostly hear about local politicians when something goes seriously wrong, such as with the arrests in Liverpool, rather than about modest success, which might take years to accumulate.

    If a local politician had done well, I wouldn't expect to know about it.
    That’s true. With the exception of London, the only time local politicians make the national news is if something goes wrong. Even Burnham and Street have been quiet outside their own areas for the last few years.
    Dan Jarvis on R4 this morning.
  • Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    Only this grasping clown could imagine that his latest trick's vast redecoration bill should be picked up by "charity". Prime Ministers and their Spouses have complained about the Downing Street accommodation since times past - and yet all have resisted claiming that "charity" should pick up the bill as they redecorated "for the nation".

    But lets not look at that. Far more fun to look north at he said she said as we get to the heart of the vast SNP conspiracy that culminated in 9 women deliberately perjuring themselves as part of a plot to jail the former leader of the SNP to advance the cause of the SNP or whatever.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    Sandpit said:

    On Devolution:

    In Hull, the city council has teamed up with nearby East Riding of Yorkshire to submit a proposal to government for a devolution deal which, if approved, would mean an elected mayor for the area.

    In a joint statement, the two council leaders describe it as an exciting opportunity that could attract investment and result in more local decision-making .

    So do people in Hull agree?

    In the city centre, several people expressed the view that the government was too remote, with one woman saying: "They don't know how we live in the North. I think we're at the end of the line. We're forgotten."

    But while there was support for the idea of a mayor with some power, it wasn't universal.

    "I think there's plenty of scope for local choice now," one man said. "When it goes bad, they blame Westminster; when it goes good, they take the praise for it. I don't think a local mayor with political power would change anything."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56215352

    As it so happens, I think that stronger local Government should be beneficial if properly resourced, but people have seen what's happened elsewhere. You can't blame them for being sceptical.

    I agree, the Police Commissioners have had little impact on most people's experience of policing and yet we elect them (on not a great turnout). Can anyone point to a locally elected politician who has made a real difference in last 12 months (even Andy Burnham was eventually slapped down)....
    For reasons of news notability we mostly hear about local politicians when something goes seriously wrong, such as with the arrests in Liverpool, rather than about modest success, which might take years to accumulate.

    If a local politician had done well, I wouldn't expect to know about it.
    That’s true. With the exception of London, the only time local politicians make the national news is if something goes wrong. Even Burnham and Street have been quiet outside their own areas for the last few years.
    I wonder if one of the issues here is the demise of local papers. Most people’s news sources are either national/international (the national media or, more likely, the internet) or very local (neighbourhood Facebook groups etc.). The Bucks Free Press is my local paper and I haven’t read it for ages. If the local council were up to something I’m not sure how I would know.
    Even if you read it you wouldn't know. If it's like our local paper the journalists have gone and most news is cut and paste stories or things they pull from the internet (10 cafes with recent 1/5 star food hygiene awards)
  • moonshine said:

    I may have missed it, did Phil get his test results?

    Have only dipped in an out in recent times. Hope Philip is ok.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,215
    DavidL said:

    On topic I think that the Republicans will come to regret not voting for the impeachment and subsequent banning of Trump. The likelihood is that other legal misadventures and quite possibly insolvency will rule him out. But it is a risk and one they could have avoided.

    Two thirds of Republicans are firmly in the Trump camp, and still believe against all evidence that the election was rigged. The only thing they can come to regret is their own gullibility.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    People interested in the lifting of the ban on canvassing next week can hear me on

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_surrey

    - move the slider to 7.38 and it's 5 minutes. Not sure how long it stays up.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314

    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    In what sense is home decoration a charitable activity?

    Because if it is, the CyclefreeExquisiteLakeDistrictHome Charity will be shaking its tin very shortly ........
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    On Devolution:

    In Hull, the city council has teamed up with nearby East Riding of Yorkshire to submit a proposal to government for a devolution deal which, if approved, would mean an elected mayor for the area.

    In a joint statement, the two council leaders describe it as an exciting opportunity that could attract investment and result in more local decision-making .

    So do people in Hull agree?

    In the city centre, several people expressed the view that the government was too remote, with one woman saying: "They don't know how we live in the North. I think we're at the end of the line. We're forgotten."

    But while there was support for the idea of a mayor with some power, it wasn't universal.

    "I think there's plenty of scope for local choice now," one man said. "When it goes bad, they blame Westminster; when it goes good, they take the praise for it. I don't think a local mayor with political power would change anything."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56215352

    As it so happens, I think that stronger local Government should be beneficial if properly resourced, but people have seen what's happened elsewhere. You can't blame them for being sceptical.

    I agree, the Police Commissioners have had little impact on most people's experience of policing and yet we elect them (on not a great turnout). Can anyone point to a locally elected politician who has made a real difference in last 12 months (even Andy Burnham was eventually slapped down)....
    For reasons of news notability we mostly hear about local politicians when something goes seriously wrong, such as with the arrests in Liverpool, rather than about modest success, which might take years to accumulate.

    If a local politician had done well, I wouldn't expect to know about it.
    That’s true. With the exception of London, the only time local politicians make the national news is if something goes wrong. Even Burnham and Street have been quiet outside their own areas for the last few years.
    I wonder if one of the issues here is the demise of local papers. Most people’s news sources are either national/international (the national media or, more likely, the internet) or very local (neighbourhood Facebook groups etc.). The Bucks Free Press is my local paper and I haven’t read it for ages. If the local council were up to something I’m not sure how I would know.
    I have not got an overall assessment of how local news blogs are doing, but there are certainly more than a few out there.

    One example is On The Wight, which started out as Ventnorblog in 2007 or so. It has always had professional staff plus a local voluntary network.
    https://onthewight.com/

    One of their early local controversies was being to be thrown out of a local council meeting for attempting to record it.

    I don't follow this space in detail these days. I wonder if the BBC based local news support operation is linked in with such sites.
    Have you come across Carmarthen Planning, a one woman operation in Llandovery? She was also thrown out of a meeting for recording it, and arrested, the start of a bitter feud that has encompassed two libel actions, a highly controversial court settlement, multiple police investigations and seems to have payed a role in the arrest of the then Chief Executive of the council.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    Only this grasping clown could imagine that his latest trick's vast redecoration bill should be picked up by "charity". Prime Ministers and their Spouses have complained about the Downing Street accommodation since times past - and yet all have resisted claiming that "charity" should pick up the bill as they redecorated "for the nation".

    But lets not look at that. Far more fun to look north at he said she said as we get to the heart of the vast SNP conspiracy that culminated in 9 women deliberately perjuring themselves as part of a plot to jail the former leader of the SNP to advance the cause of the SNP or whatever.
    Is there any evidence that the 9 women committed perjury.

    Its not difficult to believe that Salmond behaviours inappropriately badly around women but it does seem that it was used to attempt to build a mountain out of what was a molehill.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,215
    ydoethur said:

    I have been reading the back thread with amazement. Did Hyufd really take my flippant remark about England being the union of more than one kingdom and spend all night arguing about what would happen if Northumbria seceded?

    I think he might have mentioned other ancient kingdoms.

    I'm still uncertain whether HYUFD is GPT-3 or not.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPT-3
  • ydoethur said:

    I have been reading the back thread with amazement. Did Hyufd really take my flippant remark about England being the union of more than one kingdom and spend all night arguing about what would happen if Northumbria seceded?

    This is where nationalism makes me laugh. Lines get drawn on a map. People then die to defend the lines they have drawn claiming they have always been theirs or belong to them by right or something. Its just a line.

    If the argument is about the departure of Northumbria are we talking about the modern administrative county? The north of the Tyne rump Northumbria? Or the north of the Humber classic Northumbria? Its just a line drawn on a map...
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited March 2021
    DavidL said:

    On topic I think that the Republicans will come to regret not voting for the impeachment and subsequent banning of Trump. The likelihood is that other legal misadventures and quite possibly insolvency will rule him out. But it is a risk and one they could have avoided.

    Agreed. I’ve always thought it was more in the interests of the Republicans than the Democrats. Being identified with the Capitol rioters is going to be a Rep problem for a long time to come. In this respect I find McConnell’s approach quite baffling. He’s allowed himself to be vilified by the Trumpists, while not actually voting to convict.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Cyclefree said:

    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    In what sense is home decoration a charitable activity?

    Because if it is, the CyclefreeExquisiteLakeDistrictHome Charity will be shaking its tin very shortly ........
    I need £100,000 worth of redecorating. The JustGiving page goes live at noon.

    The fact that this money is almost exactly the same amount as my mortgage is purely coincidental.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,215
    The S. Korean version of Amazon is now valued somewhere around $50bn.
    https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/south-korea-coupang-seeks-3-174045590.html
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    I have been reading the back thread with amazement. Did Hyufd really take my flippant remark about England being the union of more than one kingdom and spend all night arguing about what would happen if Northumbria seceded?

    This is where nationalism makes me laugh. Lines get drawn on a map. People then die to defend the lines they have drawn claiming they have always been theirs or belong to them by right or something. Its just a line.

    If the argument is about the departure of Northumbria are we talking about the modern administrative county? The north of the Tyne rump Northumbria? Or the north of the Humber classic Northumbria? Its just a line drawn on a map...
    Whichever it is, to troll @malcolmg it has to include Edinburgh.

    He’ll be torn between fury at losing part of Scotland and a desire to get rid of Sturgeon...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462
    edited March 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    In what sense is home decoration a charitable activity?

    Because if it is, the CyclefreeExquisiteLakeDistrictHome Charity will be shaking its tin very shortly ........
    I hate to be serious o this topic, but as a several-times-but-not-at-the-moment Charity Trustee, a Trustee cannot benefit from the Charity. And I don't THINK you'd get home decoration through the Charity Commissioners as an object. I'm pretty sure those landed gentry who live in National Trust Stately Homes have to pay for the furniture they use.

    Although I suppose someone corruptible in a position of authority could always pack the Commissioners.......

    Or crowdfund.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    In what sense is home decoration a charitable activity?

    Because if it is, the CyclefreeExquisiteLakeDistrictHome Charity will be shaking its tin very shortly ........
    I need £100,000 worth of redecorating. The JustGiving page goes live at noon.

    The fact that this money is almost exactly the same amount as my mortgage is purely coincidental.
    Get in the queue ......
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Cuomo faces new accusations - what a difference a year makes.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    The spread of highly contagious coronavirus variants is threatening to fuel a "potential fourth surge of cases" in the US, a top health official has warned.

    The head of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said she was concerned by recent Covid-19 data.

    Dr Rochelle Walensky said about 70,000 new cases a day had been recorded last week - "a very high number".

    BBC
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    Dura_Ace said:

    guybrush said:

    JonathanD said:

    Johnson, such a grifter

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1366520391200628738?s=20


    "An ally of Mr Johnson last night defended the charity plan, saying: 'Downing Street is as iconic as Windsor Castle but is in danger of becoming tatty because the Civil Service does everything on the cheap."

    What's the issue?

    Number 10 doesn't belong to Johnson, though he may live there for many, many years to come, it belongs to the state. Any refurbishments done stay with the state.

    So there's no reason why the state shouldn't pay for it.

    But if donors want to pay for it instead of the tax payer then that's fine by me. Let our taxes be spent on something else.

    What's the problem?
    The reason this sort of scheme shouldn't be touched with a bargepole is that the PM is essentially soliciting gifts that, to a large extent, benefit him and his family personally.

    You'd have to be pretty naive to think personal favours to the PM are done for purely altruistic reasons and, while you can't stop people being nice to you, getting into the game of asking people to buy you stuff is inviting trouble.

    Your argument that otherwise it would fall on the taxpayer is weak. The donors could pay to have a local school hall refurbished - that would otherwise fall on the taxpayer. The reason they'd rather pay for scatter cushions for Johnson is obvious.
    Some people really have too little to worry about.
    You're right - and some of those people spend their time devising ways to sponge free scatter cushions off businessmen.
    There are some great quotes in that DM piece, reproducing here for those who do not wish to sully themselves with the sidebar of shame.

    Mr Johnson has complained the cost of the refurbishment by Carrie Symonds was 'totally out of control', the Daily Mail has been told. He reportedly said during one meeting that the sum amounted to 'tens and tens of thousands'. On another occasion he said it was 'over a hundred grand'.
    It's that old story... boy meets girl, boy divorces longstanding wife and mother of kids, girl gets knocked up, girl spends over a hundred grand on wallpaper, boy sets up sham charity to bail himself out.

    'The makeover is appropriate for a building of such huge importance,' said one. 'Carrie has exquisite taste. It is classic, stunning, stylish and chic. She should be congratulated not criticised.'

    Who the f**k writes this stuff. Jeeze, it's government by teenage girls.
    Just because Johnson can get away with anything NutNut shouldn't assume she can. Grandesignsgate could have cut through with the humble shit munchers.

    The Daily Mail reports that NutNuts" Downing Street makeover will be funded by a charity set up by Johnson, so wealthy benefactors (my interpretation) can claim tax relief for redecorating Johnson and NutNuts gaff.

    Yesterday, I was demanding Rayner's head for her £250 personalised earbuds. And here I am a day later looking at a scam, by comparison, of Titanic proportions, and by no less a figure than the Prime Minister.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    moonshine said:

    I may have missed it, did Phil get his test results?

    Have only dipped in an out in recent times. Hope Philip is ok.
    Looking over his posts from yesterday (there were a lot) I can't see any mention of any result.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,923
    edited March 2021

    moonshine said:

    I may have missed it, did Phil get his test results?

    Have only dipped in an out in recent times. Hope Philip is ok.
    The Morning Star Times headline points out Prince Philip was transferred from a private to an NHS hospital.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-56247442
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,215
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    In what sense is home decoration a charitable activity?

    Because if it is, the CyclefreeExquisiteLakeDistrictHome Charity will be shaking its tin very shortly ........
    I need £100,000 worth of redecorating. The JustGiving page goes live at noon.

    The fact that this money is almost exactly the same amount as my mortgage is purely coincidental.
    Get in the queue ......
    No squabbling.
    You are clearly both of national importance.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    On Devolution:

    In Hull, the city council has teamed up with nearby East Riding of Yorkshire to submit a proposal to government for a devolution deal which, if approved, would mean an elected mayor for the area.

    In a joint statement, the two council leaders describe it as an exciting opportunity that could attract investment and result in more local decision-making .

    So do people in Hull agree?

    In the city centre, several people expressed the view that the government was too remote, with one woman saying: "They don't know how we live in the North. I think we're at the end of the line. We're forgotten."

    But while there was support for the idea of a mayor with some power, it wasn't universal.

    "I think there's plenty of scope for local choice now," one man said. "When it goes bad, they blame Westminster; when it goes good, they take the praise for it. I don't think a local mayor with political power would change anything."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56215352

    As it so happens, I think that stronger local Government should be beneficial if properly resourced, but people have seen what's happened elsewhere. You can't blame them for being sceptical.

    I agree, the Police Commissioners have had little impact on most people's experience of policing and yet we elect them (on not a great turnout). Can anyone point to a locally elected politician who has made a real difference in last 12 months (even Andy Burnham was eventually slapped down)....
    For reasons of news notability we mostly hear about local politicians when something goes seriously wrong, such as with the arrests in Liverpool, rather than about modest success, which might take years to accumulate.

    If a local politician had done well, I wouldn't expect to know about it.
    That’s true. With the exception of London, the only time local politicians make the national news is if something goes wrong. Even Burnham and Street have been quiet outside their own areas for the last few years.
    I wonder if one of the issues here is the demise of local papers. Most people’s news sources are either national/international (the national media or, more likely, the internet) or very local (neighbourhood Facebook groups etc.). The Bucks Free Press is my local paper and I haven’t read it for ages. If the local council were up to something I’m not sure how I would know.
    I have not got an overall assessment of how local news blogs are doing, but there are certainly more than a few out there.

    One example is On The Wight, which started out as Ventnorblog in 2007 or so. It has always had professional staff plus a local voluntary network.
    https://onthewight.com/

    One of their early local controversies was being to be thrown out of a local council meeting for attempting to record it.

    I don't follow this space in detail these days. I wonder if the BBC based local news support operation is linked in with such sites.
    Have you come across Carmarthen Planning, a one woman operation in Llandovery? She was also thrown out of a meeting for recording it, and arrested, the start of a bitter feud that has encompassed two libel actions, a highly controversial court settlement, multiple police investigations and seems to have payed a role in the arrest of the then Chief Executive of the council.
    The thing is that recording meetings make sense as it allows you to ensure that all comments you make are 100% accurate and not based on false memory.

    The only people I've found who hate meetings being recorded are those who know they are inconsistent bullies.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited March 2021



    The Daily Mail reports that NutNuts" Downing Street makeover will be funded by a charity set up by Johnson, so wealthy benefactors (my interpretation) can claim tax relief for redecorating Johnson and NutNuts gaff.

    Yesterday, I was demanding Rayner's head for her £250 personalised earbuds. And here I am a day later looking at a scam, by comparison, of Titanic proportions, and by no less a figure than the Prime Minister.

    To misquote Talleyrand, they have learned nothing and remembered nothing from the expenses scandal.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cyclefree said:

    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    In what sense is home decoration a charitable activity?

    Because if it is, the CyclefreeExquisiteLakeDistrictHome Charity will be shaking its tin very shortly ........
    In the case of the White House or Downing Street when it's not owned by the occupants (or any relatives or friends of theirs) - and in the case of Downing Street the occupants could be expelled at 24 hours notice.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    Andy_JS said:

    Why wiping out flu this year may not have been a good thing after all.

    "Why the next flu season may be worse than ever: There have been barely any cases this winter thanks to Covid restrictions. But now experts fear this will leave us dangerously exposed"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9314063/Why-flu-season-worse-Experts-fear-year-leave-exposed.html

    I'm a touch confused.
    I read a Mail article that strongly implied that we HADN'T clobbered flu this season and that in fact covid deaths were flu deaths (I suppose worldwide) in what was therefore, when I checked the records, by far the worst flu season since the Spanish Flu.

    So how can we be so exposed to flu if Bel Mooney was right?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462

    ydoethur said:

    I have been reading the back thread with amazement. Did Hyufd really take my flippant remark about England being the union of more than one kingdom and spend all night arguing about what would happen if Northumbria seceded?

    This is where nationalism makes me laugh. Lines get drawn on a map. People then die to defend the lines they have drawn claiming they have always been theirs or belong to them by right or something. Its just a line.

    If the argument is about the departure of Northumbria are we talking about the modern administrative county? The north of the Tyne rump Northumbria? Or the north of the Humber classic Northumbria? Its just a line drawn on a map...
    I've sometimes what would have happened if Harold Godwinson had lost at Stamford Bridge, but managed to regroup and win at Hastings.
    Would there have been four medieval entities instead of three? (If Wales was ever actually one)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,923
    Cyclefree said:

    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    In what sense is home decoration a charitable activity?

    Because if it is, the CyclefreeExquisiteLakeDistrictHome Charity will be shaking its tin very shortly ........
    I've backed Rishi Sunak and Jacob Rees-Mogg to be next Prime Minister because they can afford their own wallpaper.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    edited March 2021
    DavidL said:

    On topic I think that the Republicans will come to regret not voting for the impeachment and subsequent banning of Trump. The likelihood is that other legal misadventures and quite possibly insolvency will rule him out. But it is a risk and one they could have avoided.

    Yep but the risk for the Republicans who didn't vote for impeachment is not the presidency (which in the majority of cases is something they probably can't be bothered to fight for) but their nomination reconfirmation come the next election.

    For that they need the Trump republicans who as the Guardian states above make up a significant minority of the Republican membership.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    edited March 2021

    Yesterday, I was demanding Rayner's head for her £250 personalised earbuds. And here I am a day later looking at a scam, by comparison, of Titanic proportions, and by no less a figure than the Prime Minister.

    Personalised earbuds.....soft furnishings....can we assume the media is now V V Bored with Covid and normal service is resuming? Back to the Things That Really Matter?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,215
    ydoethur said:



    The Daily Mail reports that NutNuts" Downing Street makeover will be funded by a charity set up by Johnson, so wealthy benefactors (my interpretation) can claim tax relief for redecorating Johnson and NutNuts gaff.

    Yesterday, I was demanding Rayner's head for her £250 personalised earbuds. And here I am a day later looking at a scam, by comparison, of Titanic proportions, and by no less a figure than the Prime Minister.

    To misquote Talleyrand, they have learned nothing and remembered nothing from the expenses scandal.
    You might as well be hung for the William Morris wallpaper as for a bath plug ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited March 2021

    Sandpit said:

    On Devolution:

    In Hull, the city council has teamed up with nearby East Riding of Yorkshire to submit a proposal to government for a devolution deal which, if approved, would mean an elected mayor for the area.

    In a joint statement, the two council leaders describe it as an exciting opportunity that could attract investment and result in more local decision-making .

    So do people in Hull agree?

    In the city centre, several people expressed the view that the government was too remote, with one woman saying: "They don't know how we live in the North. I think we're at the end of the line. We're forgotten."

    But while there was support for the idea of a mayor with some power, it wasn't universal.

    "I think there's plenty of scope for local choice now," one man said. "When it goes bad, they blame Westminster; when it goes good, they take the praise for it. I don't think a local mayor with political power would change anything."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56215352

    As it so happens, I think that stronger local Government should be beneficial if properly resourced, but people have seen what's happened elsewhere. You can't blame them for being sceptical.

    I agree, the Police Commissioners have had little impact on most people's experience of policing and yet we elect them (on not a great turnout). Can anyone point to a locally elected politician who has made a real difference in last 12 months (even Andy Burnham was eventually slapped down)....
    For reasons of news notability we mostly hear about local politicians when something goes seriously wrong, such as with the arrests in Liverpool, rather than about modest success, which might take years to accumulate.

    If a local politician had done well, I wouldn't expect to know about it.
    That’s true. With the exception of London, the only time local politicians make the national news is if something goes wrong. Even Burnham and Street have been quiet outside their own areas for the last few years.
    I wonder if one of the issues here is the demise of local papers. Most people’s news sources are either national/international (the national media or, more likely, the internet) or very local (neighbourhood Facebook groups etc.). The Bucks Free Press is my local paper and I haven’t read it for ages. If the local council were up to something I’m not sure how I would know.
    Very much so. Look at the arguments going on in a number of countries - most recently Australia - between traditional media organisations employing journalists, and Facebook/Google.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    TimT said:

    I was wondering if someone could elucidate for me what the successor state of the UK would be if Scotland gained independence. [Innocent face]

    I was reading that from last night.

    I believe the upshot was that both the rUK and Scotland could become permanent members by one of them picking up the seat of the former USSR that's lain in abeyance ever since the USSR dissolved. Russia might be miffed, but as they're not the same as the USSR (being neither a Socialist Republic, a Soviet, or a Union), what chance do they have of getting it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    I have been reading the back thread with amazement. Did Hyufd really take my flippant remark about England being the union of more than one kingdom and spend all night arguing about what would happen if Northumbria seceded?

    This is where nationalism makes me laugh. Lines get drawn on a map. People then die to defend the lines they have drawn claiming they have always been theirs or belong to them by right or something. Its just a line.

    If the argument is about the departure of Northumbria are we talking about the modern administrative county? The north of the Tyne rump Northumbria? Or the north of the Humber classic Northumbria? Its just a line drawn on a map...
    I've sometimes what would have happened if Harold Godwinson had lost at Stamford Bridge, but managed to regroup and win at Hastings.
    Would there have been four medieval entities instead of three? (If Wales was ever actually one)
    If he’d lost at Stamford Bridge he would almost certainly have been killed either by Hardrada or by Morcar, so the point is moot.

    A more likely scenario is that you would have had a vicious three-way war between Saxon, Norman and Norwegian, with probably the same ultimate result given the Normans’ superior equipment, leadership and skill level.

    The one imponderable might be how long William’s mercenaries would have stayed, but I suspect the attraction of plunder from the richest kingdom in Europe would have kept them interested for long enough.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,923
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    On Devolution:

    In Hull, the city council has teamed up with nearby East Riding of Yorkshire to submit a proposal to government for a devolution deal which, if approved, would mean an elected mayor for the area.

    In a joint statement, the two council leaders describe it as an exciting opportunity that could attract investment and result in more local decision-making .

    So do people in Hull agree?

    In the city centre, several people expressed the view that the government was too remote, with one woman saying: "They don't know how we live in the North. I think we're at the end of the line. We're forgotten."

    But while there was support for the idea of a mayor with some power, it wasn't universal.

    "I think there's plenty of scope for local choice now," one man said. "When it goes bad, they blame Westminster; when it goes good, they take the praise for it. I don't think a local mayor with political power would change anything."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56215352

    As it so happens, I think that stronger local Government should be beneficial if properly resourced, but people have seen what's happened elsewhere. You can't blame them for being sceptical.

    I agree, the Police Commissioners have had little impact on most people's experience of policing and yet we elect them (on not a great turnout). Can anyone point to a locally elected politician who has made a real difference in last 12 months (even Andy Burnham was eventually slapped down)....
    For reasons of news notability we mostly hear about local politicians when something goes seriously wrong, such as with the arrests in Liverpool, rather than about modest success, which might take years to accumulate.

    If a local politician had done well, I wouldn't expect to know about it.
    That’s true. With the exception of London, the only time local politicians make the national news is if something goes wrong. Even Burnham and Street have been quiet outside their own areas for the last few years.
    I wonder if one of the issues here is the demise of local papers. Most people’s news sources are either national/international (the national media or, more likely, the internet) or very local (neighbourhood Facebook groups etc.). The Bucks Free Press is my local paper and I haven’t read it for ages. If the local council were up to something I’m not sure how I would know.
    Even if you read it you wouldn't know. If it's like our local paper the journalists have gone and most news is cut and paste stories or things they pull from the internet (10 cafes with recent 1/5 star food hygiene awards)
    This is, and has been for a few decades now, why there are so many crime stories in local papers. The PA feed gives papers full details of court cases. If Priti Patel wants to reduce the fear of crime, she should subsidise local journalism.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: some new specials up at Ladbrokes.

    Sainz to outscore Leclerc 2.75 - unlikely in my view, though I rate Sainz. Leclerc is Ferrari's overt number one, as well as being a very good driver.

    George Russell to have a Mercedes seat in 2022 1.67 - got a good chance but the odds are rubbish for something that might happen 11 months down the line.

    McLaren to come 2nd in this year's Constructors' 6 - I hope McLaren can improve a lot but this is almost certainly a silly bet.

    McLaren to finish in the top 3 is at 3 - these odds are not very appealing. I anticipate Ferrari bouncing back, but even if they don't Alpine and Aston Martin will be pushing McLaren very hard.

    Williams to finish top 8 at 2.1 - Haas' decision to do zero development this year may open the door for Williams to beat them. But who else? AlphaTauri were pretty good last year. Alfa Romeo less so but still a clear margin above Williams.

    Mick Schumacher to win a race by 2023 at 1.8 - not tempted. He has very little chance in the Haas, and better bets will come along if he graduates to a top team.

    In short, easy markets to ignore. Of the new specials, the Sainz bet is closest one to being tempting.

    I always take a very hard look at a bet where only one side is offered. They’re generally crap value, and this little lot are no exception.

    Not that I’m going to take them up anyway, Ladbrokes don’t want my business.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765

    ydoethur said:

    I have been reading the back thread with amazement. Did Hyufd really take my flippant remark about England being the union of more than one kingdom and spend all night arguing about what would happen if Northumbria seceded?

    This is where nationalism makes me laugh. Lines get drawn on a map. People then die to defend the lines they have drawn claiming they have always been theirs or belong to them by right or something. Its just a line.

    If the argument is about the departure of Northumbria are we talking about the modern administrative county? The north of the Tyne rump Northumbria? Or the north of the Humber classic Northumbria? Its just a line drawn on a map...
    I've sometimes what would have happened if Harold Godwinson had lost at Stamford Bridge, but managed to regroup and win at Hastings.
    Would there have been four medieval entities instead of three? (If Wales was ever actually one)
    i suspect the normans would have come back with a bigger force later.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    moonshine said:

    I may have missed it, did Phil get his test results?

    Took a home test yesterday and popped it in the post yesterday. So I'm guessing today or tomorrow for the results?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    ydoethur said:



    The Daily Mail reports that NutNuts" Downing Street makeover will be funded by a charity set up by Johnson, so wealthy benefactors (my interpretation) can claim tax relief for redecorating Johnson and NutNuts gaff.

    Yesterday, I was demanding Rayner's head for her £250 personalised earbuds. And here I am a day later looking at a scam, by comparison, of Titanic proportions, and by no less a figure than the Prime Minister.

    To misquote Talleyrand, they have learned nothing and remembered nothing from the expenses scandal.
    I am not sure you are right. Straight forward, up and down accounting fraud has given way to some charitable Ponzi scheme to bamboozle the voting public.

    This doesn't look like direct pilfering from the public purse. It is far more devious and sinister than that.

    At the end of the day, however, it looks to me like a tax dodge. And a tax dodge is pilfering the public purse.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Cyclefree said:

    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    In what sense is home decoration a charitable activity?

    Because if it is, the CyclefreeExquisiteLakeDistrictHome Charity will be shaking its tin very shortly ........
    I've backed Rishi Sunak and Jacob Rees-Mogg to be next Prime Minister because they can afford their own wallpaper.
    The problem is not whether they could pay. It’s whether they would.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,215
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic I think that the Republicans will come to regret not voting for the impeachment and subsequent banning of Trump. The likelihood is that other legal misadventures and quite possibly insolvency will rule him out. But it is a risk and one they could have avoided.

    Yep but the risk for the Republicans who didn't vote for impeachment is not the presidency (which in the majority of cases is something they probably can't be bothered to fight for) but their nomination reconfirmation come the next election.

    For that they need the Trump republicans who as the Guardian states above make up a significant minority of the Republican membership.
    Trump Republicans make up a large majority of Republican membership.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,438

    moonshine said:

    I may have missed it, did Phil get his test results?

    Took a home test yesterday and popped it in the post yesterday. So I'm guessing today or tomorrow for the results?
    How are feeling today? And your good lady?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,923
    Cookie said:

    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    This all happened 23 years ago with Derry Irvine. The issue here isn't so much the sense of entitlement as the complete tin ear for what a normal amount to pay for redecoration is.
    George Osborne has just WhatsApp'd me his mum's price list. Boris might have a point.
    https://www.johnlewis.com/browse/home-garden/diy/wallpaper/osborne-little/_/N-d0eZ1z13wsr
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: some new specials up at Ladbrokes.

    Sainz to outscore Leclerc 2.75 - unlikely in my view, though I rate Sainz. Leclerc is Ferrari's overt number one, as well as being a very good driver.

    George Russell to have a Mercedes seat in 2022 1.67 - got a good chance but the odds are rubbish for something that might happen 11 months down the line.

    McLaren to come 2nd in this year's Constructors' 6 - I hope McLaren can improve a lot but this is almost certainly a silly bet.

    McLaren to finish in the top 3 is at 3 - these odds are not very appealing. I anticipate Ferrari bouncing back, but even if they don't Alpine and Aston Martin will be pushing McLaren very hard.

    Williams to finish top 8 at 2.1 - Haas' decision to do zero development this year may open the door for Williams to beat them. But who else? AlphaTauri were pretty good last year. Alfa Romeo less so but still a clear margin above Williams.

    Mick Schumacher to win a race by 2023 at 1.8 - not tempted. He has very little chance in the Haas, and better bets will come along if he graduates to a top team.

    In short, easy markets to ignore. Of the new specials, the Sainz bet is closest one to being tempting.

    I always take a very hard look at a bet where only one side is offered. They’re generally crap value, and this little lot are no exception.

    Not that I’m going to take them up anyway, Ladbrokes don’t want my business.
    I'm very surprised they are happy to have my business - I suspect I don't bet often enough there for them to notice me.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    Cyclefree said:

    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    In what sense is home decoration a charitable activity?

    Because if it is, the CyclefreeExquisiteLakeDistrictHome Charity will be shaking its tin very shortly ........
    Well the National Trust is a charity I think, and they do a certain amount of decoration.

    Perhaps it counts as art?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,923
    Floater said:

    Cuomo faces new accusations - what a difference a year makes.

    The Cuomo who is going after Trump's finances? There's irony.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285

    ydoethur said:

    I have been reading the back thread with amazement. Did Hyufd really take my flippant remark about England being the union of more than one kingdom and spend all night arguing about what would happen if Northumbria seceded?

    This is where nationalism makes me laugh. Lines get drawn on a map. People then die to defend the lines they have drawn claiming they have always been theirs or belong to them by right or something. Its just a line.

    If the argument is about the departure of Northumbria are we talking about the modern administrative county? The north of the Tyne rump Northumbria? Or the north of the Humber classic Northumbria? Its just a line drawn on a map...
    Didn't that include what is now Edinburgh?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    edited March 2021

    Cyclefree said:

    Nobody made the PM or his wife redecorate. I have this crazy idea that this voluntary act of expenditure should be funded by those that chose to make it. And who also live there.

    In what sense is home decoration a charitable activity?

    Because if it is, the CyclefreeExquisiteLakeDistrictHome Charity will be shaking its tin very shortly ........
    In the case of the White House or Downing Street when it's not owned by the occupants (or any relatives or friends of theirs) - and in the case of Downing Street the occupants could be expelled at 24 hours notice.
    I'm not going to read the entire Mail piece.

    However, I can see a sense in separating the instituational spaces of Downing Street from the Prime Ministerial flat.

    But that may or may not be Boris' aim.

    The industrial scale expenses fiddling in the House of Commons a few years ago (Mansion in Bangladesh, Villa in Portugal for two of the biggies), the behaviour of the execrable Bercow, Derry Irvine's wallpaper and the rest, the behaviour of the Brazen Baroness Scotland with £300k+ of Commonwealth funds all tell us that there is a significant problem.

    A solution needs to come from outside the people themselves.

    Were Ms Cyclefree to be a senior Government official, I would not expect her to be spending £300k of tax money to decorate her new house.

    Would be good in the Sun, though:

    "Why are you spending another £1200 on more petunias?"
    "The sheep ate my homework."
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,823

    ydoethur said:

    I have been reading the back thread with amazement. Did Hyufd really take my flippant remark about England being the union of more than one kingdom and spend all night arguing about what would happen if Northumbria seceded?

    This is where nationalism makes me laugh. Lines get drawn on a map. People then die to defend the lines they have drawn claiming they have always been theirs or belong to them by right or something. Its just a line.

    If the argument is about the departure of Northumbria are we talking about the modern administrative county? The north of the Tyne rump Northumbria? Or the north of the Humber classic Northumbria? Its just a line drawn on a map...
    I've sometimes what would have happened if Harold Godwinson had lost at Stamford Bridge, but managed to regroup and win at Hastings.
    Would there have been four medieval entities instead of three? (If Wales was ever actually one)
    i suspect the normans would have come back with a bigger force later.
    I still have something of a chip on my shoulder about the Norman Conquest. My view - and I am an amateur, and anyway, who can really know - is that Anglo Saxon England was both larger and more institutionally advanced than Normandy. The Normans defeating the Saxons was a bit of a freak event. The English were the first nation to suffer the rule of the Normans - but when the Normans then conquered Wales they had become "the English".
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380

    Yesterday, I was demanding Rayner's head for her £250 personalised earbuds. And here I am a day later looking at a scam, by comparison, of Titanic proportions, and by no less a figure than the Prime Minister.

    Personalised earbuds.....soft furnishings....can we assume the media is now V V Bored with Covid and normal service is resuming? Back to the Things That Really Matter?
    Labour MPs ripping the back out of their expense accounts, and Johnson getting bailouts from wealthy friends to fund his 'bon viveur' lifestyle, should not be stories hidden under the carpet of Covid.

    The Johnson/NutNuts story smacks of a new Camelot. Johnson's Downing Street looks like a Poundland version of JFK's Whitehouse.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been reading the back thread with amazement. Did Hyufd really take my flippant remark about England being the union of more than one kingdom and spend all night arguing about what would happen if Northumbria seceded?

    This is where nationalism makes me laugh. Lines get drawn on a map. People then die to defend the lines they have drawn claiming they have always been theirs or belong to them by right or something. Its just a line.

    If the argument is about the departure of Northumbria are we talking about the modern administrative county? The north of the Tyne rump Northumbria? Or the north of the Humber classic Northumbria? Its just a line drawn on a map...
    I've sometimes what would have happened if Harold Godwinson had lost at Stamford Bridge, but managed to regroup and win at Hastings.
    Would there have been four medieval entities instead of three? (If Wales was ever actually one)
    i suspect the normans would have come back with a bigger force later.
    I still have something of a chip on my shoulder about the Norman Conquest. My view - and I am an amateur, and anyway, who can really know - is that Anglo Saxon England was both larger and more institutionally advanced than Normandy. The Normans defeating the Saxons was a bit of a freak event. The English were the first nation to suffer the rule of the Normans - but when the Normans then conquered Wales they had become "the English".
    That is a long time to hold a grudge...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited March 2021
    Buried in the Mail article is the fact that there is ALREADY a £30k per annum budget for flat maintenance.

    Why doesn’t Carrie spread her project over several years?

    Carrie seems to have Marie Antoinette syndrome, OR she has several enemies who want to fabricate stories about her.

    Or both.

    Edit: the pictures in the article - no doubt deliberately - look like something out of Versailles.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Yesterday, I was demanding Rayner's head for her £250 personalised earbuds. And here I am a day later looking at a scam, by comparison, of Titanic proportions, and by no less a figure than the Prime Minister.

    Personalised earbuds.....soft furnishings....can we assume the media is now V V Bored with Covid and normal service is resuming? Back to the Things That Really Matter?
    Labour MPs ripping the back out of their expense accounts, and Johnson getting bailouts from wealthy friends to fund his 'bon viveur' lifestyle, should not be stories hidden under the carpet of Covid.

    The Johnson/NutNuts story smacks of a new Camelot. Johnson's Downing Street looks like a Poundland version of JFK's Whitehouse.
    NutNut? Seriously?
This discussion has been closed.