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Unapproved thoughts. The government and free speech – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited February 17 in General
imageUnapproved thoughts. The government and free speech – politicalbetting.com

Times change. And so does received wisdom. Fewer than 20 years ago, Boris Johnson saw no reason in principle to differentiate between gay marriage and consecrating a union between three men and a dog. This week, he clambered on the gay rights bandwagon, welcoming an MoD decision to return medals to military personnel dismissed for their sexuality (though actual financial compensation for their treatment seems to be beyond the current government). A virulently ambitious Conservative politician has found it necessary to perform a volte face in order to stay aligned with public opinion. 

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,497
    Test
  • Excellent choice of picture for this thread.
  • I still can't believe Gavin Williamson lauded the chap who called gays an abomination as the perfect example for this assault on free speech.

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/02/16/education-secretary-gavin-williamson-felix-ngole-gays-abomination-free-speech-champion/

    Why not bring back Section 28 whilst you're at it Gav?
  • Williamson also put in the foreword that Britain gave sanctuary to Salman Rushdie.

    Quite how you give sanctuary to someone who had been living here since he went to school I'm unclear.
  • Williamson also put in the foreword that Britain gave sanctuary to Salman Rushdie.

    Quite how you give sanctuary to someone who had been living here since he went to school I'm unclear.

    Spending a million pounds a week protecting him rather than letting him take his chances with those who wanted his head.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 64,267
    A Meeks piece. Will get stuck into this one after my run.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 9,331
    edited February 17
    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,767
    dr_spyn said:
    Surely they can find somebody who is at least out on day release?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 10,504
    Younger people have different views because their formative key experiences are entirely different, not because they are being indoctrinated.
    That this needs saying is by itself quite remarkable.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 9,419

    Williamson also put in the foreword that Britain gave sanctuary to Salman Rushdie.

    Quite how you give sanctuary to someone who had been living here since he went to school I'm unclear.

    Proof, if it were needed, that Gavin Williamson is the sort of uncompromising Education Secretary that takes his role so seriously, ensuring the wellbeing of his charges are catered for, well, well into adulthood.
  • Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    I pretty much 100% agree with this.

    Guy Fawkes is autumn, but Remembrance Sunday is winter.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 411

    I still can't believe Gavin Williamson lauded the chap who called gays an abomination as the perfect example for this assault on free speech.

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/02/16/education-secretary-gavin-williamson-felix-ngole-gays-abomination-free-speech-champion/

    Why not bring back Section 28 whilst you're at it Gav?

    The fundamental contradiction the Tories are wrestling with is that *in the medium term* the ship has sailed; however, *in the short term* their position can be improved by protecting/gathering votes to the right.

    The LDs have been squeezed almost to extinction, and the Tory judgement is presumably that the pool to be fished now lies at the other end of the spectrum. The strategists rather than the tacticians must realise that, although that pool will never dry up completely (and the sirens will continue to sing from the protruding rocks), that pool will diminish, and the Tories need to be mindful of that.
  • eekeek Posts: 11,026
    edited February 17

    dr_spyn said:
    Surely they can find somebody who is at least out on day release?
    The fact it's an all woman shortlist surprises me given that this is a mayoral position so that rather penalizes any Male Liverpudlian Labour politicians.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 25,697
    edited February 17
    dixiedean said:

    Younger people have different views because their formative key experiences are entirely different, not because they are being indoctrinated.
    That this needs saying is by itself quite remarkable.

    Just so.
    And speaking of formative key experiences, just imagine coming out of 12+ months of sex frustrating, education screwing, job prospect ruining lockdown to be told that what you need is more Jordan Peterson? Start digging up the cobble stones and throwing them at at the gammons, comrades!
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,508
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    Generally agree with this, although I'd move the Winter/Spring boundary back a fortnight(ish). I reckon Spring begins with Feb half-term / the start of Lent. (This week / today respectively)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 10,504
    eek said:

    dr_spyn said:
    Surely they can find somebody who is at least out on day release?
    The fact it's an all woman shortlist surprises me given that this is a mayoral position so that rather penalizes any Male Liverpudlian Labour politicians.
    Tbf though that group hasn't covered itself with glory.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K

    image
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 5,576
    Lennon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    Generally agree with this, although I'd move the Winter/Spring boundary back a fortnight(ish). I reckon Spring begins with Feb half-term / the start of Lent. (This week / today respectively)
    Look out of your window and say that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926
    UK local R

    image
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,767

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    I pretty much 100% agree with this.

    Guy Fawkes is autumn, but Remembrance Sunday is winter.
    Nah. Not having it. November is quintessential autumn. When most of the leaves drop off.

    Otherwise you have to move mid-February into spring. And, statistically, the second and third weeks of February average the coldest weeks of the year. And if that ain't winter....
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,508
    IshmaelZ said:

    Lennon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    Generally agree with this, although I'd move the Winter/Spring boundary back a fortnight(ish). I reckon Spring begins with Feb half-term / the start of Lent. (This week / today respectively)
    Look out of your window and say that.
    10 degrees and light drizzle here on the South Coast. Perfectly spring like to me.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926
    UK case summary

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926
    UK hospitals

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 1,349
    Fishing said:

    Anecdotal, but fwiw,

    I have a couple of friends who are university professors. One used to be in the Socialist Worker's Party when he was a student himself, and is now a leading light in his local Green Party. I was slightly amazed when he texted me recently in a conversation about something else that "even I get fed up with the lefty groupthink in academia".

    And a second friend is completely apolitical, but has said that one of the things he's found most difficult to get used to is being forced to say, before he gives lectures, that he wants to be addressed as "he/him", and if he forgets, a student could label him transphobic or some crap like that. That, and wondering which of his Chinese students are there to keep an eye on the others.

    As to whether campus radicalism is more of a problem now than it was during, say, the late 60s or 70s, or even the 1930s, who knows? Those waves dissipated fairly harmlessly other than the odd spy or terrorist or Labour politician, I suppose.

    Out of interest - what course/discipline for the second example? I've never had to do that, but I am in a science department. Is that a source of difference?
  • eekeek Posts: 11,026
    mwadams said:

    I still can't believe Gavin Williamson lauded the chap who called gays an abomination as the perfect example for this assault on free speech.

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/02/16/education-secretary-gavin-williamson-felix-ngole-gays-abomination-free-speech-champion/

    Why not bring back Section 28 whilst you're at it Gav?

    The fundamental contradiction the Tories are wrestling with is that *in the medium term* the ship has sailed; however, *in the short term* their position can be improved by protecting/gathering votes to the right.

    The LDs have been squeezed almost to extinction, and the Tory judgement is presumably that the pool to be fished now lies at the other end of the spectrum. The strategists rather than the tacticians must realise that, although that pool will never dry up completely (and the sirens will continue to sing from the protruding rocks), that pool will diminish, and the Tories need to be mindful of that.
    They also need to be careful as any shift to the right may scare their more centralist minded voters away.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926
    UK deaths

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926
    UK R

    From cases

    image
    image

    from hospitalisations

    image
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 18,663
    The Header nails this issue. I consider it closed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 29,455
    .

    Williamson also put in the foreword that Britain gave sanctuary to Salman Rushdie.

    Quite how you give sanctuary to someone who had been living here since he went to school I'm unclear.

    Spending a million pounds a week protecting him rather than letting him take his chances with those who wanted his head.
    That is protection. Sanctuary is something quite different.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 3,667
    Right or wrong, it's a successful way to convince voters that the left cares a lot about students, trans and Islam, none of which is as widely popular a cause as the NHS or nationalising random businesses.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 5,576

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    I pretty much 100% agree with this.

    Guy Fawkes is autumn, but Remembrance Sunday is winter.
    Nah. Not having it. November is quintessential autumn. When most of the leaves drop off.

    Otherwise you have to move mid-February into spring. And, statistically, the second and third weeks of February average the coldest weeks of the year. And if that ain't winter....
    Only if you insist on parity of duration. In fact there is more of winter than of other seasons.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926
    edited February 17
    Deleted
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 46,532
    The Exorcist wasn't "banned" - it was simply X certificate - and even films which weren't certified could be watched in "members only" cinemas....

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926
    edited February 17
    Deleted
  • FishingFishing Posts: 1,727

    Fishing said:

    Anecdotal, but fwiw,

    I have a couple of friends who are university professors. One used to be in the Socialist Worker's Party when he was a student himself, and is now a leading light in his local Green Party. I was slightly amazed when he texted me recently in a conversation about something else that "even I get fed up with the lefty groupthink in academia".

    And a second friend is completely apolitical, but has said that one of the things he's found most difficult to get used to is being forced to say, before he gives lectures, that he wants to be addressed as "he/him", and if he forgets, a student could label him transphobic or some crap like that. That, and wondering which of his Chinese students are there to keep an eye on the others.

    As to whether campus radicalism is more of a problem now than it was during, say, the late 60s or 70s, or even the 1930s, who knows? Those waves dissipated fairly harmlessly other than the odd spy or terrorist or Labour politician, I suppose.

    Out of interest - what course/discipline for the second example? I've never had to do that, but I am in a science department. Is that a source of difference?
    Oxbridge philosophy so maybe.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 26,999
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    THANK YOU!

    I said mid-May and it turns out I am right.
  • Somewhat off topic

    Liverpool Echo: I was invited for a covid vaccine because the NHS thought I was 6cm tall
    Hilarious mix-up may have highlighted a potential issue with the vaccine roll-out

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/invited-covid-vaccine-because-nhs-19857990

    "A nervous sounding chap on the line began quietly explaining to me that there had been a mix-up in offering me a vaccine at this stage.

    He said unfortunately my details had been put into the system incorrectly when I had registered with the GP just a year ago.

    He was really polite and very apologetic but said I was in fact not due to get my vaccine anytime soon.

    To be honest I was quite relieved as had felt strange about being invited ahead of so many other more vulnerable people.

    But obviously I had to know more about the mix-up that had led to this moment.

    The man from the surgery took a sharp intake of breath and tried to remain composed as he informed me that rather than having my height registered as six foot two, it had been put into the system as 6.2 centimetres.

    I'm not sure how he kept it together when he told me that this, combined with my weight, had given me a Body Mass Index (BMI) of 28,000."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 9,331
    Theres a myth that Relax was totally banned on Radio One. In fact John Peel and one or two other DJs like David Jensen used to be play it on their late night shows.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 1,349
    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    Anecdotal, but fwiw,

    I have a couple of friends who are university professors. One used to be in the Socialist Worker's Party when he was a student himself, and is now a leading light in his local Green Party. I was slightly amazed when he texted me recently in a conversation about something else that "even I get fed up with the lefty groupthink in academia".

    And a second friend is completely apolitical, but has said that one of the things he's found most difficult to get used to is being forced to say, before he gives lectures, that he wants to be addressed as "he/him", and if he forgets, a student could label him transphobic or some crap like that. That, and wondering which of his Chinese students are there to keep an eye on the others.

    As to whether campus radicalism is more of a problem now than it was during, say, the late 60s or 70s, or even the 1930s, who knows? Those waves dissipated fairly harmlessly other than the odd spy or terrorist or Labour politician, I suppose.

    Out of interest - what course/discipline for the second example? I've never had to do that, but I am in a science department. Is that a source of difference?
    Oxbridge philosophy so maybe.
    I await the day with baited breath that we get instructed to do that...

    We have had a student transition on the course. No-one had a problem, other than we just wanted to be told how the person involved would like to be referred to.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 1,349
    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    THANK YOU!

    I said mid-May and it turns out I am right.
    No
  • felixfelix Posts: 12,170
    I liked this gem from the header: " The government seems to see no contradiction between the two strands. And there isn’t. It is launching a war on woke, having been driven mad by political correctness."

    It's indeed a terrible thing to be driven mad by political events.................
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 16,200
    I generally think anything any government does is likely to be bad, and I think this falls into that category.

    For the most part I'm not too worried about these things. The whole trans argument is a minority interest and really shouldn't be a factor in politics. The important thing for the Labour Party is that they avoid talking about it at all costs.

    I think we saw with the statues that there isn't too much of a threat to those that anyone cares particularly strongly about.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 50,313
    edited February 17

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    I pretty much 100% agree with this.

    Guy Fawkes is autumn, but Remembrance Sunday is winter.
    Nah. Not having it. November is quintessential autumn. When most of the leaves drop off.

    Otherwise you have to move mid-February into spring. And, statistically, the second and third weeks of February average the coldest weeks of the year. And if that ain't winter....
    That list gave February as winter still . . . 😕

    Trees are generally pretty bare already by Remembrance Sunday.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,767
    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    I pretty much 100% agree with this.

    Guy Fawkes is autumn, but Remembrance Sunday is winter.
    Nah. Not having it. November is quintessential autumn. When most of the leaves drop off.

    Otherwise you have to move mid-February into spring. And, statistically, the second and third weeks of February average the coldest weeks of the year. And if that ain't winter....
    Only if you insist on parity of duration. In fact there is more of winter than of other seasons.
    How about autumn - starts two days before August Bank Holiday (when the weather turns to shit) and ends the day before you have your first Christmas meal (with all the trimmings)?
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 410
    edited February 17
    Reading the discussions about depression from the previous thread and just want to add my own thoughts at the moment. I've also been there over the last few months, on and off with different types of depression, some periods worse than others but pretty much constant since the end of October. I know brighter times are coming, but just existing and waiting for that moment is becoming ever more difficult, even as the time gets shorter and the days get longer.

    Today has been very difficult in particular, as I live with a good friend who lost his otherwise completely healthy Dad very suddenly last night (not to COVID) which I found out about this morning. Even though it's not a personal loss, the little bit of grief I've felt today and the act of being there for my friend has flared up my depression. I feel completely washed out this afternoon and haven't been able to focus on anything. Obviously I wouldn't change this for anything as I'd always be there for a friend in need, but even doing the right thing can contribute to depression.

    Any idea of focusing on work today has completely gone out the window and I've just found myself staring at my computer screen since mid morning which makes me feel guilty that I'm not keeping my end of the bargain. It's a new job and I've only been there three weeks. I'm hoping I feel better in the morning as I'm meant to travel to the office but I'm worried I've got myself into a rut now.
  • Nigelb said:

    .

    Williamson also put in the foreword that Britain gave sanctuary to Salman Rushdie.

    Quite how you give sanctuary to someone who had been living here since he went to school I'm unclear.

    Spending a million pounds a week protecting him rather than letting him take his chances with those who wanted his head.
    That is protection. Sanctuary is something quite different.
    Sancturary, noun, "refuge or safety from pursuit, persecution, or other danger."

    The country paid for refuge or safety for him from the danger against his life. Seems a distinction without a difference to me.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 791
    FPT
    DougSeal said:
    Do those curves also mean that passing on the virus happens later on average? Given an observed week-to-week growth in cases, that would mean a higher R number than if you assume a shorter average time to passing it on, right?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 5,392
    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    Anecdotal, but fwiw,

    I have a couple of friends who are university professors. One used to be in the Socialist Worker's Party when he was a student himself, and is now a leading light in his local Green Party. I was slightly amazed when he texted me recently in a conversation about something else that "even I get fed up with the lefty groupthink in academia".

    And a second friend is completely apolitical, but has said that one of the things he's found most difficult to get used to is being forced to say, before he gives lectures, that he wants to be addressed as "he/him", and if he forgets, a student could label him transphobic or some crap like that. That, and wondering which of his Chinese students are there to keep an eye on the others.

    As to whether campus radicalism is more of a problem now than it was during, say, the late 60s or 70s, or even the 1930s, who knows? Those waves dissipated fairly harmlessly other than the odd spy or terrorist or Labour politician, I suppose.

    Out of interest - what course/discipline for the second example? I've never had to do that, but I am in a science department. Is that a source of difference?
    Oxbridge philosophy so maybe.
    I always assumed Oxbridge philosophers had higher things on their mind.

    "Last summer, married senior philosophy don Dr Peter Smith, 60, resigned his post as a Fellow after it was revealed he entertained prostitutes in his college rooms. The £120-an-hour working girls were provided by internet agency Stansted Escorts, who waived his fee in return for his writing lurid reviews of the girls' lovemaking abilities and sexual preferences on a website."

    The Daily Merkle, April 2012.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 5,576

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    I pretty much 100% agree with this.

    Guy Fawkes is autumn, but Remembrance Sunday is winter.
    Nah. Not having it. November is quintessential autumn. When most of the leaves drop off.

    Otherwise you have to move mid-February into spring. And, statistically, the second and third weeks of February average the coldest weeks of the year. And if that ain't winter....
    Only if you insist on parity of duration. In fact there is more of winter than of other seasons.
    How about autumn - starts two days before August Bank Holiday (when the weather turns to shit) and ends the day before you have your first Christmas meal (with all the trimmings)?
    Autumn is September and October. At the other end, winter steals so much of spring that white Easters outnumber white Christmases. Summer is illusory.
  • eekeek Posts: 11,026

    Somewhat off topic

    Liverpool Echo: I was invited for a covid vaccine because the NHS thought I was 6cm tall
    Hilarious mix-up may have highlighted a potential issue with the vaccine roll-out

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/invited-covid-vaccine-because-nhs-19857990

    "A nervous sounding chap on the line began quietly explaining to me that there had been a mix-up in offering me a vaccine at this stage.

    He said unfortunately my details had been put into the system incorrectly when I had registered with the GP just a year ago.

    He was really polite and very apologetic but said I was in fact not due to get my vaccine anytime soon.

    To be honest I was quite relieved as had felt strange about being invited ahead of so many other more vulnerable people.

    But obviously I had to know more about the mix-up that had led to this moment.

    The man from the surgery took a sharp intake of breath and tried to remain composed as he informed me that rather than having my height registered as six foot two, it had been put into the system as 6.2 centimetres.

    I'm not sure how he kept it together when he told me that this, combined with my weight, had given me a Body Mass Index (BMI) of 28,000."

    I would have thought no substance could provide the mass required for that calculation*

    * except possibly from the centre of the sun due to pressure from elsewhere.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926
    Age related data

    image
    image
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 29,455

    I still can't believe Gavin Williamson lauded the chap who called gays an abomination as the perfect example for this assault on free speech.

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/02/16/education-secretary-gavin-williamson-felix-ngole-gays-abomination-free-speech-champion/

    Why not bring back Section 28 whilst you're at it Gav?

    For every Ngole, Carl or Todd whose story is known, evidence suggests there are many more who have felt they had to keep silent...

    Evidence suggests that Williamson is a tosser.

    The Exorcist wasn't "banned" - it was simply X certificate - and even films which weren't certified could be watched in "members only" cinemas....
    No, it was removed from the video rental shelves for a decade.
    https://www.bbfc.co.uk/education/case-studies/exorcist
  • Nigelb said:

    .

    Williamson also put in the foreword that Britain gave sanctuary to Salman Rushdie.

    Quite how you give sanctuary to someone who had been living here since he went to school I'm unclear.

    Spending a million pounds a week protecting him rather than letting him take his chances with those who wanted his head.
    That is protection. Sanctuary is something quite different.
    Sancturary, noun, "refuge or safety from pursuit, persecution, or other danger."

    The country paid for refuge or safety for him from the danger against his life. Seems a distinction without a difference to me.

    UK citizens are not offered sanctuary by the state when their lives are credibly threatened, they are given protection. The former is arbitrary, the latter is a right.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926
    UK Positivity

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    image
  • eekeek Posts: 11,026
    Going back to conversations from earlier today - I've just got an email from VW saying they've improved the batteries in the ID3 and lowed prices

    I take it from that they aren't selling as well as VW thought they would.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926
    UK Vaccinations

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 29,455
    kinabalu said:

    The Header nails this issue. I consider it closed.

    Wait until they actually appoint the "Champion" (hilariously capitalised in Williamson's silly letter).
  • Nigelb said:

    .

    Williamson also put in the foreword that Britain gave sanctuary to Salman Rushdie.

    Quite how you give sanctuary to someone who had been living here since he went to school I'm unclear.

    Spending a million pounds a week protecting him rather than letting him take his chances with those who wanted his head.
    That is protection. Sanctuary is something quite different.
    Sancturary, noun, "refuge or safety from pursuit, persecution, or other danger."

    The country paid for refuge or safety for him from the danger against his life. Seems a distinction without a difference to me.

    UK citizens are not offered sanctuary by the state when their lives are credibly threatened, they are given protection. The former is arbitrary, the latter is a right.

    No people are not given that level of protection generally. Name anyone before or since who's had the same level of protection as he was.

    There are abuse victims and others who are denied anything like that level of protection. It was pretty unique.
  • The Tories have a voting coalition that is largely elderly and socially conservative. However, its two parts disagree a lot on economics. That will pose a lot of challenges for the government as we come out of the pandemic. Luckily, culture war may well keep the coalition together. So culture war is what we will get.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 2,334
    FPT
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    For @Casino_Royale


    Yeah mate, that sounds like clinical depression. I've been there and worse, as I have discussed on here. The social phobia is a classic symptom: you just want to hide away, under the duvet. Millions of people are suffering some form of it, right now. A friend of mine (usually chirpy) realised he had it when, every morning, when he woke up, his first thought at realising he was conscious was "Oh no".

    Advice? You could try pills, if it gets really bad. They do help, but they have side effects and you don't want to get dependant. But clearly if it deteriorates (esp if you think about self harm) you should consider them.

    Other advice? Stephen Fry (who suffers from it badly) puts it quite well: depression is just like the rain, there's nothing you can do, you just wait for it to stop. But it WILL stop, as the rain always stops, in the end.

    Interim: force yourself to go outside and exercise in fresh air. Force yourself to phone a friend, see a friend on a walk. Even if it is just 5 minutes, it will help. TELL people you are depressed, admit it, confess it, sometimes just sharing is truly helpful. Unburden yourself.

    And maybe try some really tough exercise, like HIIT (you can do it at home). This is so vigorous you get an endorphine boost and a testosterone surge whatever your mood. Do it daily, if possible.

    Don't drink TOO much, but don't abstain either, if you find it helps.

    Eat really delicious food. Meditate a bit. Listen to music you haven't tried before. Your anhedonia will prevent you from enjoying much of this - life is so beige during depression - but it all helps to move your mind onwards.

    Good luck.

    Very good post.

    Only thing I`ll add, having been thinking about @Casino_Royale `s post all day, is that there is a difference between sadness and depression. I`m concerned that the two are frequently conflated.

    I`m desperately sad at the moment, for obvious reasons, but there is no way that I`m depressed. We have had events that have created sadness in our lives piled up and piled up again over the last twelve months. Sadness obviously - but depression? Be sure - and until then I`d be hesitant about medication if I were you - but that is almost certainly what the GP will prescribe if you see him/her.
    I agree with this, but I don't think what Casino was describing was sadness, I think it's a combination of emptiness, tiredness and anger, any of which can strike at any time.

    I related to so much of his post he could have been describing me, right down to the abruptness on work zoom calls (at one point last week I told my boss to just go ahead and fire me already!) and the random bouts of anger. I've smashed so much furniture in the house it's a wonder I've anything left to sit on.

    Exercise definitely works and usually I work out three or four times a week. It's better than any pill. But when you don't even have the motivation to get out of bed, let alone get up and work out, you realise you've passed an event horizon and fallen into an abyss. You fall in, but crawl out.

    Leon is right about anhedonia. Everything is grey and tasteless and lifeless.

    A lot of my thoughts these days revolve around the life not lived. Not just during lockdown, but everything from the lost loves of my youth to the bafflement that I've spent the last decade or so working obscene hours in an office in what amounts to a non-job that benefits no-one.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 62,950

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Williamson also put in the foreword that Britain gave sanctuary to Salman Rushdie.

    Quite how you give sanctuary to someone who had been living here since he went to school I'm unclear.

    Spending a million pounds a week protecting him rather than letting him take his chances with those who wanted his head.
    That is protection. Sanctuary is something quite different.
    Sancturary, noun, "refuge or safety from pursuit, persecution, or other danger."

    The country paid for refuge or safety for him from the danger against his life. Seems a distinction without a difference to me.

    Nuances do matter, that's why different words for very similar things exist in the first place. In that kind of context sanctuary implies something granted to an outsider. I don't think there's something sinister about why it was used, but it was not the most appropriate choice.
  • Nigelb said:

    .

    Williamson also put in the foreword that Britain gave sanctuary to Salman Rushdie.

    Quite how you give sanctuary to someone who had been living here since he went to school I'm unclear.

    Spending a million pounds a week protecting him rather than letting him take his chances with those who wanted his head.
    That is protection. Sanctuary is something quite different.
    Sancturary, noun, "refuge or safety from pursuit, persecution, or other danger."

    The country paid for refuge or safety for him from the danger against his life. Seems a distinction without a difference to me.

    UK citizens are not offered sanctuary by the state when their lives are credibly threatened, they are given protection. The former is arbitrary, the latter is a right.

    No people are not given that level of protection generally. Name anyone before or since who's had the same level of protection as he was.

    There are abuse victims and others who are denied anything like that level of protection. It was pretty unique.

    Name any other British authors who have had fatwas imposed on them by the Supreme Leader of Iran. Of course, the level of protection was unprecedented. The threat was.

  • Apparently, the paper also cites a non-platforming of Germaine Greer that never actually happened. As you'd expect from Gavin Williamson it is a very shoddy piece of work.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,767

    Age related data

    image
    image

    Crumblies cross-over!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 62,950
    edited February 17

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Williamson also put in the foreword that Britain gave sanctuary to Salman Rushdie.

    Quite how you give sanctuary to someone who had been living here since he went to school I'm unclear.

    Spending a million pounds a week protecting him rather than letting him take his chances with those who wanted his head.
    That is protection. Sanctuary is something quite different.
    Sancturary, noun, "refuge or safety from pursuit, persecution, or other danger."

    The country paid for refuge or safety for him from the danger against his life. Seems a distinction without a difference to me.

    UK citizens are not offered sanctuary by the state when their lives are credibly threatened, they are given protection. The former is arbitrary, the latter is a right.

    No people are not given that level of protection generally. Name anyone before or since who's had the same level of protection as he was.

    There are abuse victims and others who are denied anything like that level of protection. It was pretty unique.
    You've rebutted your own point - the threat was unique, and very rare in its nature. That's why the protecton was unique. Others in the same position should and I am sure would be given the same level or equivalent.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Williamson also put in the foreword that Britain gave sanctuary to Salman Rushdie.

    Quite how you give sanctuary to someone who had been living here since he went to school I'm unclear.

    Spending a million pounds a week protecting him rather than letting him take his chances with those who wanted his head.
    That is protection. Sanctuary is something quite different.
    Sancturary, noun, "refuge or safety from pursuit, persecution, or other danger."

    The country paid for refuge or safety for him from the danger against his life. Seems a distinction without a difference to me.

    UK citizens are not offered sanctuary by the state when their lives are credibly threatened, they are given protection. The former is arbitrary, the latter is a right.

    No people are not given that level of protection generally. Name anyone before or since who's had the same level of protection as he was.

    There are abuse victims and others who are denied anything like that level of protection. It was pretty unique.
    Perhaps also worth considering what sanctuary actually used to mean.

    It's didn't actually mean that you were literally holding onto the alter. It meant that the Church put it's official power behind protecting you. You could actually live a chunk of your life, even leaving the sanctuary area.

    The UK government didn't merely let Rushdie stay in the country. The government made it clear to the Iranians and others that if any attempt was made to kill Rushdie, that would be taken as an attack by the UK state. The terminal on Kharg Island was mentioned in this context....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 26,999
    MaxPB said:

    I've been working on a new data point for our work dashboard but I'll share some of the findings here, it's case levels to hospitalisations by age. Obviously there is a huge reliance on the testing system catching cases evenly which is why I'll move it over to the ONS data at some point, but eventually it looks at the percentage of people in the three main age categories that end up being hospitalised by an infection. I'm provisionally using a two week delay between infection and hospitalisation but may change that after consulting with someone who knows better.

    Essentially I want to see what the vaccine effect is or if there even is one. So far the results are unsurprisingly a bit messy because it's a new data point and it needs some work, however, I think there is a significant effect of vaccines. What I can see is that in early Jan around 80-90% of over 85s who caught symptomatic COVID were being hospitalised for it and by by mid February that has fallen to 40% with a truly incredibly steep downwards slope, what's interesting is that there does seem to be a slowdown in this drop off over the last few days with around 40% of 85+ and around 30% of 65-84 year olds still ending up in hospital. I think that figure will continue to fall over the coming days but we may end up reaching the limit at around 10% because of vaccine refuseniks.

    This, to my mind, is the first bit of truly compelling evidence that the vaccines are taking effect. I'll keep PB updated on the progress of the series periodically but I've got to automate the process first as doing it manually is very time consuming.

    Excellent thanks.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 5,129

    The Tories have a voting coalition that is largely elderly and socially conservative. However, its two parts disagree a lot on economics. That will pose a lot of challenges for the government as we come out of the pandemic. Luckily, culture war may well keep the coalition together. So culture war is what we will get.

    I think that the socially conservative thing is fading, and that's in part because of the elderly demographic. The new old are far less worried.


    Culture is pretty much all on the side of small c conservatism.

  • IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    I pretty much 100% agree with this.

    Guy Fawkes is autumn, but Remembrance Sunday is winter.
    Nah. Not having it. November is quintessential autumn. When most of the leaves drop off.

    Otherwise you have to move mid-February into spring. And, statistically, the second and third weeks of February average the coldest weeks of the year. And if that ain't winter....
    Only if you insist on parity of duration. In fact there is more of winter than of other seasons.
    How about autumn - starts two days before August Bank Holiday (when the weather turns to shit) and ends the day before you have your first Christmas meal (with all the trimmings)?
    Autumn is September and October. At the other end, winter steals so much of spring that white Easters outnumber white Christmases. Summer is illusory.
    Given that Easter is usually in April I'm very doubtful about that oft repeated snow claim.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,926

    Age related data

    image
    image

    Crumblies cross-over!
    Yes, indeed.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 46,532
    Nigelb said:


    No, it was removed from the video rental shelves for a decade.
    https://www.bbfc.co.uk/education/case-studies/exorcist

    But it wasn't "banned" - she could have seen it in the cinema:

    Therefore, at the beginning of 1988, the video was removed from the shelves (after nearly seven years of free availability) and was to remain unavailable for 11 years. Despite the prohibition on the video version, the film continued to play occasionally in cinemas, its existing X certificate being replaced by a new 18 certificate - for cinema release only - in 1991.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 4,529
    What happened to Larry Summers at Harvard is probably more along the lines of what people should be concerned with.

    People like Jonathan Haidt are doing a lot of work with things like Heterodox Academy. So many of the problems seem to be coming from the privatised US system. If we were clever we'd be exploiting what was going on there as an opportunity for our universities.
  • eekeek Posts: 11,026

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    I pretty much 100% agree with this.

    Guy Fawkes is autumn, but Remembrance Sunday is winter.
    Nah. Not having it. November is quintessential autumn. When most of the leaves drop off.

    Otherwise you have to move mid-February into spring. And, statistically, the second and third weeks of February average the coldest weeks of the year. And if that ain't winter....
    Only if you insist on parity of duration. In fact there is more of winter than of other seasons.
    How about autumn - starts two days before August Bank Holiday (when the weather turns to shit) and ends the day before you have your first Christmas meal (with all the trimmings)?
    Autumn is September and October. At the other end, winter steals so much of spring that white Easters outnumber white Christmases. Summer is illusory.
    Given that Easter is usually in April I'm very doubtful about that oft repeated snow claim.
    Compared with Christmas?

    I think it's far more likely we get snow in early April than late December.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 46,532
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 1,378
    Have we not mentioned that the next front in the mask debate is not whether we're wearing a mask or not but whether we're wearing *enough* masks?

  • LeonLeon Posts: 2,474

    UK Vaccinations

    image
    image
    image
    image

    It's really good but...I was kinda hoping we'd be nailing half a million a day every day by now, and going upwards from there. As we did with tests. Hmm

    Maybe it will improve going into March
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 10,504
    Sadness is a natural human response to loss, frustration or disappointment. It has an identifiable cause and goes away. Everyone has it.
    Depression is longer than 2 weeks without necessarily any noticeable life event trigger.
    The problem we have right now is that we all have a discernible long term catalyst.
    So the difference is not always obvious to discern.
  • Mortimer said:

    Dad got Pfizered up today! So thrilled.

    The number of vaccination anecdotes I'm hearing and reading in real life / PB / internet suggests a big pick up of the rate.
  • eekeek Posts: 11,026

    Nigelb said:


    No, it was removed from the video rental shelves for a decade.
    https://www.bbfc.co.uk/education/case-studies/exorcist

    But it wasn't "banned" - she could have seen it in the cinema:

    Therefore, at the beginning of 1988, the video was removed from the shelves (after nearly seven years of free availability) and was to remain unavailable for 11 years. Despite the prohibition on the video version, the film continued to play occasionally in cinemas, its existing X certificate being replaced by a new 18 certificate - for cinema release only - in 1991.
    I suspect that wasn't option unless she lived in London or another very major city.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 12,238

    Mortimer said:

    Dad got Pfizered up today! So thrilled.

    The number of vaccination anecdotes I'm hearing and reading in real life / PB / internet suggests a big pick up of the rate.
    Brother today his wife tomorrow - both below 65

    I am very very impressed
  • LeonLeon Posts: 2,474

    Have we not mentioned that the next front in the mask debate is not whether we're wearing a mask or not but whether we're wearing *enough* masks?

    It's actually quite encouraging news, in some ways, and not as daft as it sounds.

    Higher grade masks like FFP2s or (especially) FFP3s are really uncomfortable to wear over a long time (ie hours).

    Evidence from America suggests you can get the same two-way protective effect as these high grade masks (ie protecting yourself AND others from aerosols) by wearing a simple surgical mask and then a cloth mask or gaiter over that. Which would be a lot more comfortable.
  • Nigelb said:

    .

    Williamson also put in the foreword that Britain gave sanctuary to Salman Rushdie.

    Quite how you give sanctuary to someone who had been living here since he went to school I'm unclear.

    Spending a million pounds a week protecting him rather than letting him take his chances with those who wanted his head.
    That is protection. Sanctuary is something quite different.
    Sancturary, noun, "refuge or safety from pursuit, persecution, or other danger."

    The country paid for refuge or safety for him from the danger against his life. Seems a distinction without a difference to me.

    UK citizens are not offered sanctuary by the state when their lives are credibly threatened, they are given protection. The former is arbitrary, the latter is a right.

    No people are not given that level of protection generally. Name anyone before or since who's had the same level of protection as he was.

    There are abuse victims and others who are denied anything like that level of protection. It was pretty unique.
    Perhaps also worth considering what sanctuary actually used to mean.

    It's didn't actually mean that you were literally holding onto the alter. It meant that the Church put it's official power behind protecting you. You could actually live a chunk of your life, even leaving the sanctuary area.

    The UK government didn't merely let Rushdie stay in the country. The government made it clear to the Iranians and others that if any attempt was made to kill Rushdie, that would be taken as an attack by the UK state. The terminal on Kharg Island was mentioned in this context....
    Precisely. It was sanctuary in the classic sense.

    There is nothing formally "outside" about sanctuary. The Church didn't simply offer sanctuary to those who were "outsiders" from the Church. People are adding something to it that doesn't exist.
  • eek said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    Season dates IMO, (totally unscientific):

    Spring: c. 1st March to c. 15th May
    Summer: c. 15th May to c. 10th Sep
    Autumn: c. 10th Sep to c. 10th Nov
    Winter: c. 10th Nov to c. 28th/29th Feb

    I pretty much 100% agree with this.

    Guy Fawkes is autumn, but Remembrance Sunday is winter.
    Nah. Not having it. November is quintessential autumn. When most of the leaves drop off.

    Otherwise you have to move mid-February into spring. And, statistically, the second and third weeks of February average the coldest weeks of the year. And if that ain't winter....
    Only if you insist on parity of duration. In fact there is more of winter than of other seasons.
    How about autumn - starts two days before August Bank Holiday (when the weather turns to shit) and ends the day before you have your first Christmas meal (with all the trimmings)?
    Autumn is September and October. At the other end, winter steals so much of spring that white Easters outnumber white Christmases. Summer is illusory.
    Given that Easter is usually in April I'm very doubtful about that oft repeated snow claim.
    Compared with Christmas?

    I think it's far more likely we get snow in early April than late December.
    It depends what you call 'snow'.

    A flurry of a few flakes which melts in an hour might happen in April.

    But proper snow which is around for at least a day is far more common in December than in April or even March in my experience.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 1,757
    edited February 17
    Leon said:

    UK Vaccinations

    image
    image
    image
    image

    It's really good but...I was kinda hoping we'd be nailing half a million a day every day by now, and going upwards from there. As we did with tests. Hmm

    Maybe it will improve going into March
    As, I think, others have said on here, I think the “shape” of the reported number suggests were seeing some artefacts of reporting processes in these numbers rather than an accurate record of numbers on a given day. It feels like the weekly average is the best measure and to my eye that looks like steady growth.
  • I like the use of 'virulently ambitious'.

    By that, I mean I quickly scrolled down to see who wrote this and then moved on to more interesting things.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 5,915
    That's a weird thread.

    She seems to want to talk about anything except the current debate.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 46,532
    MaxPB said:

    I've been working on a new data point for our work dashboard but I'll share some of the findings here, it's case levels to hospitalisations by age. Obviously there is a huge reliance on the testing system catching cases evenly which is why I'll move it over to the ONS data at some point, but eventually it looks at the percentage of people in the three main age categories that end up being hospitalised by an infection. I'm provisionally using a two week delay between infection and hospitalisation but may change that after consulting with someone who knows better.

    Essentially I want to see what the vaccine effect is or if there even is one. So far the results are unsurprisingly a bit messy because it's a new data point and it needs some work, however, I think there is a significant effect of vaccines. What I can see is that in early Jan around 80-90% of over 85s who caught symptomatic COVID were being hospitalised for it and by by mid February that has fallen to 40% with a truly incredibly steep downwards slope, what's interesting is that there does seem to be a slowdown in this drop off over the last few days with around 40% of 85+ and around 30% of 65-84 year olds still ending up in hospital. I think that figure will continue to fall over the coming days but we may end up reaching the limit at around 10% because of vaccine refuseniks.

    This, to my mind, is the first bit of truly compelling evidence that the vaccines are taking effect. I'll keep PB updated on the progress of the series periodically but I've got to automate the process first as doing it manually is very time consuming.

    Guernsey anecdata - Wave 2 has had nearly twice the level of infections (as measured - we're now capable of the UK equivalent of 1.5 million tests a day, so there's probably a huge measuring effect in there) but only 1 death (so far) vs first wave 13. The first wave deaths were all Care Home residents - second wave also got into Care Homes - but they'd all been jabbed 3 weeks previously - so only two (mild) infections and the vast majority negative. If vaccines didn't work I'd expect a very different picture!
  • MaxPB said:

    I've been working on a new data point for our work dashboard but I'll share some of the findings here, it's case levels to hospitalisations by age. Obviously there is a huge reliance on the testing system catching cases evenly which is why I'll move it over to the ONS data at some point, but eventually it looks at the percentage of people in the three main age categories that end up being hospitalised by an infection. I'm provisionally using a two week delay between infection and hospitalisation but may change that after consulting with someone who knows better.

    Essentially I want to see what the vaccine effect is or if there even is one. So far the results are unsurprisingly a bit messy because it's a new data point and it needs some work, however, I think there is a significant effect of vaccines. What I can see is that in early Jan around 80-90% of over 85s who caught symptomatic COVID were being hospitalised for it and by by mid February that has fallen to 40% with a truly incredibly steep downwards slope, what's interesting is that there does seem to be a slowdown in this drop off over the last few days with around 40% of 85+ and around 30% of 65-84 year olds still ending up in hospital. I think that figure will continue to fall over the coming days but we may end up reaching the limit at around 10% because of vaccine refuseniks.

    This, to my mind, is the first bit of truly compelling evidence that the vaccines are taking effect. I'll keep PB updated on the progress of the series periodically but I've got to automate the process first as doing it manually is very time consuming.

    And that's the level of protection off a single dose primarily? Fantastic news!

    But the UK is taking a gamble on pseudoscience - Macron . . .
  • MaxPB said:

    I've been working on a new data point for our work dashboard but I'll share some of the findings here, it's case levels to hospitalisations by age. Obviously there is a huge reliance on the testing system catching cases evenly which is why I'll move it over to the ONS data at some point, but eventually it looks at the percentage of people in the three main age categories that end up being hospitalised by an infection. I'm provisionally using a two week delay between infection and hospitalisation but may change that after consulting with someone who knows better.

    Essentially I want to see what the vaccine effect is or if there even is one. So far the results are unsurprisingly a bit messy because it's a new data point and it needs some work, however, I think there is a significant effect of vaccines. What I can see is that in early Jan around 80-90% of over 85s who caught symptomatic COVID were being hospitalised for it and by by mid February that has fallen to 40% with a truly incredibly steep downwards slope, what's interesting is that there does seem to be a slowdown in this drop off over the last few days with around 40% of 85+ and around 30% of 65-84 year olds still ending up in hospital. I think that figure will continue to fall over the coming days but we may end up reaching the limit at around 10% because of vaccine refuseniks.

    This, to my mind, is the first bit of truly compelling evidence that the vaccines are taking effect. I'll keep PB updated on the progress of the series periodically but I've got to automate the process first as doing it manually is very time consuming.

    I think the decline in the proportion of English hospital deaths who are 80+ during 2021 is statistically significant as well.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 5,129
    MattW said:

    That's a weird thread.

    She seems to want to talk about anything except the current debate.
    I think this is the Gavin Williamson fanclub at work.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 12,238

    MaxPB said:

    I've been working on a new data point for our work dashboard but I'll share some of the findings here, it's case levels to hospitalisations by age. Obviously there is a huge reliance on the testing system catching cases evenly which is why I'll move it over to the ONS data at some point, but eventually it looks at the percentage of people in the three main age categories that end up being hospitalised by an infection. I'm provisionally using a two week delay between infection and hospitalisation but may change that after consulting with someone who knows better.

    Essentially I want to see what the vaccine effect is or if there even is one. So far the results are unsurprisingly a bit messy because it's a new data point and it needs some work, however, I think there is a significant effect of vaccines. What I can see is that in early Jan around 80-90% of over 85s who caught symptomatic COVID were being hospitalised for it and by by mid February that has fallen to 40% with a truly incredibly steep downwards slope, what's interesting is that there does seem to be a slowdown in this drop off over the last few days with around 40% of 85+ and around 30% of 65-84 year olds still ending up in hospital. I think that figure will continue to fall over the coming days but we may end up reaching the limit at around 10% because of vaccine refuseniks.

    This, to my mind, is the first bit of truly compelling evidence that the vaccines are taking effect. I'll keep PB updated on the progress of the series periodically but I've got to automate the process first as doing it manually is very time consuming.

    And that's the level of protection off a single dose primarily? Fantastic news!

    But the UK is taking a gamble on pseudoscience - Macron . . .
    Yet France has decided if you have had covid you only need a single dose of vaccine...................
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