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Unapproved thoughts. The government and free speech – politicalbetting.com

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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,125

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Looks at the number of cases. Jeez.
    I don’t worldometers is the most reliable source of data in this context. Or do you think there are 2 million plus ‘active’ cases waiting to resolve?
    Well then you will be happy to provide us with the conclusive, definitive French data, from....

    up to you. Here's your chance.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,178
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Except France has had at least 3.5 million cases of CV19, not 328,859.
    Not just me then...
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957

    dixiedean said:

    Can't get my head around this idea that young people have never been exposed to alternative opinions.
    They have quite literally grown up with the Internet.
    By contrast I was limited to the opinions of people I knew or those who were published and happened to be available in a local shop or library. Or on TV.

    The internet is very efficient at letting you see only what you want to see unless you make a concerted effort not to. That is why so many were surprised when the Tories won the 2019 election as they didn't know anyone who wasn't going to vote for Corbyn.

    Edit to say: this is one of the few sites where we get a significant (but not full) range of views.
    Thats social media. The Internet shows you what you search for. That's where the effort comes in.
    Not sure that many were surprised by 2019.
    Far more by 2017 from the reaction on here and elsewhere.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,125

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Don't be ridiculous!

    "Coronavirus Cases:
    3,514,147
    Deaths:
    83,122"

    83,122 / 3,514,147 = 2.37%

    Yes there'll be some active cases that might increase that further but there's not over 3 million active cases.
    I rest my case, M'Lud
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Looks at the number of cases. Jeez.
    I don’t worldometers is the most reliable source of data in this context. Or do you think there are 2 million plus ‘active’ cases waiting to resolve?
    Well then you will be happy to provide us with the conclusive, definitive French data, from....

    up to you. Here's your chance.

    Coronavirus Cases:
    3,514,147
    Deaths:
    83,122
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,886



    Porterhouse Blue is my go-to for an accurate depiction of how Cambridge works.

    The portrayal of Sir Godber Evans and Lady Mary -- failed Labour politician and his wealthy Liberal wife -- is one of the most vicious in all satirical literature.

    The satirising of Oxford academics in Morse is also a lot of fun -- the episode where the Master is a devil-worshipper & the Bursar is a pornographer is a stand-out.
    Our Provost was apparently the inspiration for Sir Les Patterson...
    Zelman Cowen? I didn't hear that one...
    It was the rumour, though I have no way to back it up. Having heard him speak to a crowd of very drunk rowers at a Bump Supper I can believe it though.
    Oh, it is 100% believable, yes.

    Still, he was a level up from some of the more recent incumbents.
    So were you at Oriel?
    A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, yes. A subject with an even lower level of literacy than Physics (as you can probably tell).
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,178
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Looks at the number of cases. Jeez.
    I don’t worldometers is the most reliable source of data in this context. Or do you think there are 2 million plus ‘active’ cases waiting to resolve?
    Well then you will be happy to provide us with the conclusive, definitive French data, from....

    up to you. Here's your chance.
    Of course I can’t, but the same source you are using invalidates your argument. You’ve done a classic cherry pick.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,178
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Don't be ridiculous!

    "Coronavirus Cases:
    3,514,147
    Deaths:
    83,122"

    83,122 / 3,514,147 = 2.37%

    Yes there'll be some active cases that might increase that further but there's not over 3 million active cases.
    I rest my case, M'Lud
    Huh? You said 1 in 4, not one in 40
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Don't be ridiculous!

    "Coronavirus Cases:
    3,514,147
    Deaths:
    83,122"

    83,122 / 3,514,147 = 2.37%

    Yes there'll be some active cases that might increase that further but there's not over 3 million active cases.
    I rest my case, M'Lud
    You what?

    2.37% Isn't even a tenth of what you were claiming. 🙄🤦🏻‍♂️
  • Options



    Porterhouse Blue is my go-to for an accurate depiction of how Cambridge works.

    The portrayal of Sir Godber Evans and Lady Mary -- failed Labour politician and his wealthy Liberal wife -- is one of the most vicious in all satirical literature.

    The satirising of Oxford academics in Morse is also a lot of fun -- the episode where the Master is a devil-worshipper & the Bursar is a pornographer is a stand-out.
    Our Provost was apparently the inspiration for Sir Les Patterson...
    Zelman Cowen? I didn't hear that one...
    It was the rumour, though I have no way to back it up. Having heard him speak to a crowd of very drunk rowers at a Bump Supper I can believe it though.
    Oh, it is 100% believable, yes.

    Still, he was a level up from some of the more recent incumbents.
    So were you at Oriel?
    A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, yes. A subject with an even lower level of literacy than Physics (as you can probably tell).
    An engineer then.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Except France has had at least 3.5 million cases of CV19, not 328,859.
    Haven't we had this discussion before on PB? The stats on closed cases compared to 'active' are all over the place because there isn't always a clear pathway to the actual closure of a case in official stats. Who knows who has recovered from mild covid in the UK?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,979
    France, 2020. Normally, around 600,000 deaths, they actually did about 710,000. There will, however, be a bunch more than that coming in early 2021. Let's go with 150,000 because that's a round number and about right.

    There have been 3.5 million CONFIRMED CV19 cases. The real number is going to be, realistically, at least 50% higher, and 100% higher is probably about right (i.e. a little more than one-in-ten Frenchmen). There are also still cases to come. But let's stick with that 7m.

    So the real CFR is 150,000 / 7,000,000

    CFR - 2.1%

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,979

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Except France has had at least 3.5 million cases of CV19, not 328,859.
    Haven't we had this discussion before on PB? The stats on closed cases compared to 'active' are all over the place because there isn't always a clear pathway to the actual closure of a case in official stats. Who knows who has recovered from mild covid in the UK?
    Exactly.

    You need to compare people who've caught it (using antibody to pick up mild cases) to excess deaths (to work out all CV19 related deaths).
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,178
    rcs1000 said:

    France, 2020. Normally, around 600,000 deaths, they actually did about 710,000. There will, however, be a bunch more than that coming in early 2021. Let's go with 150,000 because that's a round number and about right.

    There have been 3.5 million CONFIRMED CV19 cases. The real number is going to be, realistically, at least 50% higher, and 100% higher is probably about right (i.e. a little more than one-in-ten Frenchmen). There are also still cases to come. But let's stick with that 7m.

    So the real CFR is 150,000 / 7,000,000

    CFR - 2.1%

    I think Leon is refilling his glass and contemplating the error of his maths/ways. Or probably not.
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Except France has had at least 3.5 million cases of CV19, not 328,859.
    Haven't we had this discussion before on PB? The stats on closed cases compared to 'active' are all over the place because there isn't always a clear pathway to the actual closure of a case in official stats. Who knows who has recovered from mild covid in the UK?
    I didn't think anyone had used the closed case stats for at least about 10-11 months since it was rapidly realised they're not being reported.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,125

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Looks at the number of cases. Jeez.
    I don’t worldometers is the most reliable source of data in this context. Or do you think there are 2 million plus ‘active’ cases waiting to resolve?
    Well then you will be happy to provide us with the conclusive, definitive French data, from....

    up to you. Here's your chance.
    Of course I can’t, but the same source you are using invalidates your argument. You’ve done a classic cherry pick.
    But that's my point. The data everywhere is skewed, old, rubbish, mad, weird, quirky, and vaguely unreliable (at best). I guess that is what happens during a global plague. Chaos reigns.

    It was pointed out early on in this pandemic, by the much missed and exceptionally attractive Eadric, that we probably won't know who's done "best" in this disease until some years afterwards. So many countries, so many different ways of counting deaths, illness, vaccinations, miracle cures.

    So far we can say the East has done better than the West, and the Antipodes have done a lot better than the old countries. That's probably about it.

    The economic fall-out may take many more years to process. Likewise the real impact on mortality.

    It is like a huge war with no winner, that still takes multiple lives. At the moment, "news" (we're beating you on vaccines!) is little better than *propaganda*. :Likely we will still be counting in ten years time - and arguing.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,178
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Looks at the number of cases. Jeez.
    I don’t worldometers is the most reliable source of data in this context. Or do you think there are 2 million plus ‘active’ cases waiting to resolve?
    Well then you will be happy to provide us with the conclusive, definitive French data, from....

    up to you. Here's your chance.
    Of course I can’t, but the same source you are using invalidates your argument. You’ve done a classic cherry pick.
    But that's my point. The data everywhere is skewed, old, rubbish, mad, weird, quirky, and vaguely unreliable (at best). I guess that is what happens during a global plague. Chaos reigns.

    It was pointed out early on in this pandemic, by the much missed and exceptionally attractive Eadric, that we probably won't know who's done "best" in this disease until some years afterwards. So many countries, so many different ways of counting deaths, illness, vaccinations, miracle cures.

    So far we can say the East has done better than the West, and the Antipodes have done a lot better than the old countries. That's probably about it.

    The economic fall-out may take many more years to process. Likewise the real impact on mortality.

    It is like a huge war with no winner, that still takes multiple lives. At the moment, "news" (we're beating you on vaccines!) is little better than *propaganda*. :Likely we will still be counting in ten years time - and arguing.
    Fair enough but I think your original post was wide of the mark then. It looked like you were claiming the CFR was 25% in France.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Except France has had at least 3.5 million cases of CV19, not 328,859.


    I find it completely plausible that there are 3,268,410 people still unrecovered from Covid, including people who got Covid a year ago now.

    Orrrrrrrrrr, the Closed/Recovered stats on Wroldometer have always been a load of bollocks.

    One or the other.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,125

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Don't be ridiculous!

    "Coronavirus Cases:
    3,514,147
    Deaths:
    83,122"

    83,122 / 3,514,147 = 2.37%

    Yes there'll be some active cases that might increase that further but there's not over 3 million active cases.
    I rest my case, M'Lud
    Huh? You said 1 in 4, not one in 40
    My case was (go and have a look): NO ONE KNOWS. The stats are almost meaningless. This argument is QED
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Looks at the number of cases. Jeez.
    I don’t worldometers is the most reliable source of data in this context. Or do you think there are 2 million plus ‘active’ cases waiting to resolve?
    Well then you will be happy to provide us with the conclusive, definitive French data, from....

    up to you. Here's your chance.
    Of course I can’t, but the same source you are using invalidates your argument. You’ve done a classic cherry pick.
    But that's my point. The data everywhere is skewed, old, rubbish, mad, weird, quirky, and vaguely unreliable (at best). I guess that is what happens during a global plague. Chaos reigns.

    It was pointed out early on in this pandemic, by the much missed and exceptionally attractive Eadric, that we probably won't know who's done "best" in this disease until some years afterwards. So many countries, so many different ways of counting deaths, illness, vaccinations, miracle cures.

    So far we can say the East has done better than the West, and the Antipodes have done a lot better than the old countries. That's probably about it.

    The economic fall-out may take many more years to process. Likewise the real impact on mortality.

    It is like a huge war with no winner, that still takes multiple lives. At the moment, "news" (we're beating you on vaccines!) is little better than *propaganda*. :Likely we will still be counting in ten years time - and arguing.
    France:

    TOTAL Coronavirus Cases:
    3,514,147
    TOTAL Deaths:
    83,122

    Do the math(s)!
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Don't be ridiculous!

    "Coronavirus Cases:
    3,514,147
    Deaths:
    83,122"

    83,122 / 3,514,147 = 2.37%

    Yes there'll be some active cases that might increase that further but there's not over 3 million active cases.
    I rest my case, M'Lud
    Huh? You said 1 in 4, not one in 40
    My case was (go and have a look): NO ONE KNOWS. The stats are almost meaningless. This argument is QED
    No your case was

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.


    And

    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths


    Maybe pay less attention to obviously incorrect figures. Especially when ones that give a lie to your claim are right there on the page.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,178
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Don't be ridiculous!

    "Coronavirus Cases:
    3,514,147
    Deaths:
    83,122"

    83,122 / 3,514,147 = 2.37%

    Yes there'll be some active cases that might increase that further but there's not over 3 million active cases.
    I rest my case, M'Lud
    Huh? You said 1 in 4, not one in 40
    My case was (go and have a look): NO ONE KNOWS. The stats are almost meaningless. This argument is QED
    Then I apologise for not fully interpret your post correctly. I don’t think I was the only one...
  • Options

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Don't be ridiculous!

    "Coronavirus Cases:
    3,514,147
    Deaths:
    83,122"

    83,122 / 3,514,147 = 2.37%

    Yes there'll be some active cases that might increase that further but there's not over 3 million active cases.
    I rest my case, M'Lud
    Huh? You said 1 in 4, not one in 40
    My case was (go and have a look): NO ONE KNOWS. The stats are almost meaningless. This argument is QED
    Then I apologise for not fully interpret your post correctly. I don’t think I was the only one...
    You have nothing to apologise for.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,125

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Looks at the number of cases. Jeez.
    I don’t worldometers is the most reliable source of data in this context. Or do you think there are 2 million plus ‘active’ cases waiting to resolve?
    Well then you will be happy to provide us with the conclusive, definitive French data, from....

    up to you. Here's your chance.
    Of course I can’t, but the same source you are using invalidates your argument. You’ve done a classic cherry pick.
    But that's my point. The data everywhere is skewed, old, rubbish, mad, weird, quirky, and vaguely unreliable (at best). I guess that is what happens during a global plague. Chaos reigns.

    It was pointed out early on in this pandemic, by the much missed and exceptionally attractive Eadric, that we probably won't know who's done "best" in this disease until some years afterwards. So many countries, so many different ways of counting deaths, illness, vaccinations, miracle cures.

    So far we can say the East has done better than the West, and the Antipodes have done a lot better than the old countries. That's probably about it.

    The economic fall-out may take many more years to process. Likewise the real impact on mortality.

    It is like a huge war with no winner, that still takes multiple lives. At the moment, "news" (we're beating you on vaccines!) is little better than *propaganda*. :Likely we will still be counting in ten years time - and arguing.
    Fair enough but I think your original post was wide of the mark then. It looked like you were claiming the CFR was 25% in France.
    NO, My point was. GO AND HAVE A LOOK, THIS IS WHAT I SAID:


    "If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness"

    Fucksake.

    I know PB has its share of trainspotters but this is www.politicalautism.com

    Enuff, I shall watch Netflix and drink

    Later
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981

    SPI-M bloke says return to "normal", probably autumn....perhaps late summer if vaccine programme goes gangbusters both from supply and uptake side of things.

    Where did this “going gangbusters” phrase come from? I have only read it in the papers once or twice and have never heard anyone ever use it in real life.
    Boris used it when talking about vaccines...so am taking the piss.
    It’s a bizarre phrase indeed!
    You should watch the unherd video, SPI-M bloke is definitely up your alley. He is very annoyed at people taking about "new normals", rather arguing we should be fighting to get back the old normal.
    Cheers for this Francis - an enjoyable watch. This guy seems eminently sensible and balanced, why don’t we see more of him?
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Looks at the number of cases. Jeez.
    I don’t worldometers is the most reliable source of data in this context. Or do you think there are 2 million plus ‘active’ cases waiting to resolve?
    Well then you will be happy to provide us with the conclusive, definitive French data, from....

    up to you. Here's your chance.
    Of course I can’t, but the same source you are using invalidates your argument. You’ve done a classic cherry pick.
    But that's my point. The data everywhere is skewed, old, rubbish, mad, weird, quirky, and vaguely unreliable (at best). I guess that is what happens during a global plague. Chaos reigns.

    It was pointed out early on in this pandemic, by the much missed and exceptionally attractive Eadric, that we probably won't know who's done "best" in this disease until some years afterwards. So many countries, so many different ways of counting deaths, illness, vaccinations, miracle cures.

    So far we can say the East has done better than the West, and the Antipodes have done a lot better than the old countries. That's probably about it.

    The economic fall-out may take many more years to process. Likewise the real impact on mortality.

    It is like a huge war with no winner, that still takes multiple lives. At the moment, "news" (we're beating you on vaccines!) is little better than *propaganda*. :Likely we will still be counting in ten years time - and arguing.
    Fair enough but I think your original post was wide of the mark then. It looked like you were claiming the CFR was 25% in France.
    NO, My point was. GO AND HAVE A LOOK, THIS IS WHAT I SAID:


    "If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness"

    Fucksake.

    I know PB has its share of trainspotters but this is www.politicalautism.com

    Enuff, I shall watch Netflix and drink

    Later
    83k isn't 25% of 3.5 million in any definition.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    edited February 2021
    Leon has accidently highlighted an anomaly in the Worldometer stats regarding French covid Recoveries but that anomaly is simply because Worldometer is using the 'discharged from hospital' figure for its Total Recovered number for France, for some reason known only to itself.

    Here is its source...

    https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/vue-d-ensemble?location=FRA
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    As for the Free Speech Champion, I just feel mild contempt that the Government thinks it can start a profitable culture war with such thin gruel. It takes two to have a war. Appoint Toby Young, insist that Farage can speak at Oxford, see if most long-standing lefties actually care.

    Good point. But if Young gets some big job I probably would care. Worse, I'd lose my equanimity and get sucked in, start saying things I'd regret and losing hearts & minds. Which is exactly what THEY want.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2021

    SPI-M bloke says return to "normal", probably autumn....perhaps late summer if vaccine programme goes gangbusters both from supply and uptake side of things.

    Where did this “going gangbusters” phrase come from? I have only read it in the papers once or twice and have never heard anyone ever use it in real life.
    Boris used it when talking about vaccines...so am taking the piss.
    It’s a bizarre phrase indeed!
    You should watch the unherd video, SPI-M bloke is definitely up your alley. He is very annoyed at people taking about "new normals", rather arguing we should be fighting to get back the old normal.
    Cheers for this Francis - an enjoyable watch. This guy seems eminently sensible and balanced, why don’t we see more of him?
    The extended interview with vaccine task force guy who Sky interviewed today was also good...the problem with that interview was half the time was wasted with Sam Coates trying to get him to bash the government for not going fast enough on vaccinations and also to get him to comment on the politics of Big Dom, Tory appointed mates and the EU.

    Rather than asking him about the future, as they did in that unherd interview. Which is really want we want to know about.
  • Options

    Leon has accidently highlighted an anomaly in the Worldometer stats regarding French covid Recoveries but that anomaly is simply because Worldometer is using the 'discharged from hospital' figure for its Total Recovered number for France, for some reason known only to itself.

    Here is its source...

    https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/vue-d-ensemble?location=FRA

    I took it to be deliberate, pointing out that the stats were not very helpful.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at what it fucking says. Jeez

    CLOSED CASES
    328,859
    Cases which had an outcome:
    245,737 (75%)
    Recovered / Discharged

    83,122 (25%)
    Deaths
    Except France has had at least 3.5 million cases of CV19, not 328,859.
    Haven't we had this discussion before on PB? The stats on closed cases compared to 'active' are all over the place because there isn't always a clear pathway to the actual closure of a case in official stats. Who knows who has recovered from mild covid in the UK?
    Exactly.

    You need to compare people who've caught it (using antibody to pick up mild cases) to excess deaths (to work out all CV19 related deaths).
    Indeed. About half of all cases are completely asymptomatic, so people have it and ‘recover’ none the wiser and without troubling the scorers - unless for some unusual reason they happen to have a test.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2021

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1362165956768894979

    That is the third lurch of the day from the Mail....
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,979
    edited February 2021
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    Leon has accidently highlighted an anomaly in the Worldometer stats regarding French covid Recoveries but that anomaly is simply because Worldometer is using the 'discharged from hospital' figure for its Total Recovered number for France, for some reason known only to itself.

    Here is its source...

    https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/vue-d-ensemble?location=FRA

    I took it to be deliberate, pointing out that the stats were not very helpful.
    I'm not convinced it was deliberate but I have to acknowledge it was a very effective grenade lobbed into an otherwise tranquil thread.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    For once, the Mail has the grit of a point.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    For once, the Mail has the grit of a point.
    I am not sure "Light the touch paper, Boris..." is the best way to put it tbh.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1362165956768894979

    That is the third lurch of the day from the Mail....
    So he can crash the car like Prince Philip ?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957

    For once, the Mail has the grit of a point.
    Don't worry. Another will be along soon.
  • Options
    Amid all the talk of ending the lockdown can I point out that those of us shielding have been told to continue doing so until at least the 31st of March.
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Can't get my head around this idea that young people have never been exposed to alternative opinions.
    They have quite literally grown up with the Internet.
    By contrast I was limited to the opinions of people I knew or those who were published and happened to be available in a local shop or library. Or on TV.

    The internet is very efficient at letting you see only what you want to see unless you make a concerted effort not to. That is why so many were surprised when the Tories won the 2019 election as they didn't know anyone who wasn't going to vote for Corbyn.

    Edit to say: this is one of the few sites where we get a significant (but not full) range of views.
    Thats social media. The Internet shows you what you search for. That's where the effort comes in.
    Not sure that many were surprised by 2019.
    Far more by 2017 from the reaction on here and elsewhere.
    Even search results are skewed to you personally.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,125

    Leon has accidently highlighted an anomaly in the Worldometer stats regarding French covid Recoveries but that anomaly is simply because Worldometer is using the 'discharged from hospital' figure for its Total Recovered number for France, for some reason known only to itself.

    Here is its source...

    https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/vue-d-ensemble?location=FRA

    I took it to be deliberate, pointing out that the stats were not very helpful.
    Well, yes. Exactly.

    *sigh*
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Can't get my head around this idea that young people have never been exposed to alternative opinions.
    They have quite literally grown up with the Internet.
    By contrast I was limited to the opinions of people I knew or those who were published and happened to be available in a local shop or library. Or on TV.

    The internet is very efficient at letting you see only what you want to see unless you make a concerted effort not to. That is why so many were surprised when the Tories won the 2019 election as they didn't know anyone who wasn't going to vote for Corbyn.

    Edit to say: this is one of the few sites where we get a significant (but not full) range of views.
    Thats social media. The Internet shows you what you search for. That's where the effort comes in.
    Not sure that many were surprised by 2019.
    Far more by 2017 from the reaction on here and elsewhere.
    Even search results are skewed to you personally.
    Indeed. But "access to alternative viewpoints" is laughably easy compared to 30 years ago.
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    edited February 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon has accidently highlighted an anomaly in the Worldometer stats regarding French covid Recoveries but that anomaly is simply because Worldometer is using the 'discharged from hospital' figure for its Total Recovered number for France, for some reason known only to itself.

    Here is its source...

    https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/vue-d-ensemble?location=FRA

    I took it to be deliberate, pointing out that the stats were not very helpful.
    Well, yes. Exactly.

    *sigh*
    I'm used to working out what people are trying to say, no matter how badly they do so... :D
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,125
    Actually there's a more important point in all this statistical (and fairly pointless) argy-bargy.

    France has today recorded 25,000+ cases. That is a LOT. The case-load is not reducing, it is arguably growing. They may be headed for a THIRD lockdown, late in the day.

    Might have an effect on the POTFR elex. I can see the-apparently-efficient, rosbif-screwing Barnier winning, easily, if Macron is forced down that route.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,125

    Leon said:

    Leon has accidently highlighted an anomaly in the Worldometer stats regarding French covid Recoveries but that anomaly is simply because Worldometer is using the 'discharged from hospital' figure for its Total Recovered number for France, for some reason known only to itself.

    Here is its source...

    https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/vue-d-ensemble?location=FRA

    I took it to be deliberate, pointing out that the stats were not very helpful.
    Well, yes. Exactly.

    *sigh*
    I'm used to working out what people are trying to say, no matter how badly they do so... :D
    You are advantaged, over 97% of most PBers, by not being 200 miles down the ASD spectrum
  • Options
    HYUFD said:
    "The weak will parish"? That might be a bit of a Freudian slip...
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    edited February 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon has accidently highlighted an anomaly in the Worldometer stats regarding French covid Recoveries but that anomaly is simply because Worldometer is using the 'discharged from hospital' figure for its Total Recovered number for France, for some reason known only to itself.

    Here is its source...

    https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/vue-d-ensemble?location=FRA

    I took it to be deliberate, pointing out that the stats were not very helpful.
    Well, yes. Exactly.

    *sigh*
    I'm used to working out what people are trying to say, no matter how badly they do so... :D
    You are advantaged, over 97% of most PBers, by not being 200 miles down the ASD spectrum
    Did you not notice the Physics part of my handle?
    But in this case it is the teacher bit which wins.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,580
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck Facebook. Fuck Google.

    C'mon Joe Biden. If you can do ONE GOOD THING in your stupid elderly presidency, apart from Not Being Donald, it is this. Break up the great internet monopolies. Facebook, Google. Apple, Twitter, Amazon,

    This is what America is FOR and if it can't do it, just hand over to China now, because they just might (on the grounds of healthy capitalism, not free speech)
    You are attacking the wrong people. This is entirely the result of idiotic Australian laws that mean that if anyone posts news items from Australian outlets then Facebook is liable for that. It is the Australians who are behaving like the Chinese in this case not Facebook or Google.
    I confess - a rarity on PB - I have not read the minutiae of the Aussie proposal.

    But the larger point is true. Are the huge Silicon Valley megacorps monopolistic, in a bad way? Yes, absolutely. Facebook is classically monopolistic. It buys up all rivals (WhatsApp, Insta) and either runs them into the ground or slowly incorporates them into the monolith. It is downright evil. And it collects so much data.

    Fuck Facebook. Break it up, the same way America broke up Standard Oil in the early 20th century. The USA was THE world power for a century partly because it was willing to do stuff like this, which apparently hampered US companies but actually benefited US capitalism (and everyone else).

    If the USA can no longer do this, it is no longer fit for purpose.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil
    Only old people use Facebook.

    You're like the people attacking Microsoft in 2000 asking for its break up, and missing the point that their time in the sun is already past.
    With a (claimed) 2.8bn active users, that’s an awful lot of old people.

    The smart kids use it as a tool, but only when there isn’t an alternative.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,605
    Can't they just revert to "Hurrah for the Blackshirts"?

    It would be less damaging.

    Night all.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334

    As for the Free Speech Champion, I just feel mild contempt that the Government thinks it can start a profitable culture war with such thin gruel. It takes two to have a war. Appoint Toby Young, insist that Farage can speak at Oxford, see if most long-standing lefties actually care.

    How about those professors and academics I mentioned earlier who are being stopped from discussing serious matters including advising on law changes because they and their institutions are being threatened by a vocal minority?
    I'm not in favour of stopping people from expressing any legal opinion at all, so I think we agree on that. But I think the Government is posturing to its gallery when it goes on about it (or statues or other trivia) - it's the equivalent of circuses. And the vocal minority are time-wasters too, like people who obsess about the evils of Amazon but take no real interest in the underlying problem of corporate tax evasion.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Actually there's a more important point in all this statistical (and fairly pointless) argy-bargy.

    France has today recorded 25,000+ cases. That is a LOT. The case-load is not reducing, it is arguably growing. They may be headed for a THIRD lockdown, late in the day.

    Might have an effect on the POTFR elex. I can see the-apparently-efficient, rosbif-screwing Barnier winning, easily, if Macron is forced down that route.

    All that pseudo-science....
  • Options
    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Crap link earlier.

    Reporter invited for vaccine because NHS thought he was 6.2cm with BMI of 28,000


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/02/17/reporter-invited-for-vaccine-because-nhs-thought-he-was-6-2cm-with-bmi-of-28000-14101877/?ito=cbshare
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115

    Leon said:

    In Singapore, there have been nearly sixty thousand ‘cases’ and twenty-nine deaths. A case fatality rate of around one in two thousand, or 0.02%. The UK has had four million cases and one hundred and seven thousand deaths. A case fatality rate of 3%. Therefore, if you get COVID19 you are one hundred and fifty times more likely to die of it in the UK, than in Singapore

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/?unapproved=209929&moderation-hash=a5cef811cb2cdcbea50d9b3f11d6c604#comment-209929

    France has a Case Fatality Ratio of 25%.

    No kidding.

    If you are diagnosed with Covid in France, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying.

    These stats are tending towards meaninglessness

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
    I think your maths is dodgy... more like 1 in 25
    Look at the "closed cases".

    It is of course nonsense, but it shows that the stats are not vey helpful at the moment.
    Yep because to use the closed cases would imply that there are 2 million plus ‘active’ cases...
    Maybe France has a peculiarly vicious type of long Covid?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,979
    HYUFD said:
    I could never vote for someone who doesn't use "your" and "you're" correctly.

    Also, I'm a bit concerned about how the weak are going to "parish".
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    HYUFD said:
    This is by far the worst spelling and grammar I've ever seen come from someone who can demonstrably use semi colons correctly.
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon has accidently highlighted an anomaly in the Worldometer stats regarding French covid Recoveries but that anomaly is simply because Worldometer is using the 'discharged from hospital' figure for its Total Recovered number for France, for some reason known only to itself.

    Here is its source...

    https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/vue-d-ensemble?location=FRA

    I took it to be deliberate, pointing out that the stats were not very helpful.
    Well, yes. Exactly.

    *sigh*
    I'm used to working out what people are trying to say, no matter how badly they do so... :D
    You are advantaged, over 97% of most PBers, by not being 200 miles down the ASD spectrum
    Clever old you, slipping in a bit of RAS syndrome to further antagonise us OCD disorder laden compulsives.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited February 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I could never vote for someone who doesn't use "your" and "you're" correctly.

    Also, I'm a bit concerned about how the weak are going to "parish".
    Many parishes are very weak, so they're already there.

    I'm more curious what he thinks local government is for if not to help people in an emergency - surely even small state advocates think emergencies are suitable for action? So why was he even on it in the first place?

    But 'City' is a bit of a grand name for a place smaller than many villages.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:
    This is by far the worst spelling and grammar I've ever seen come from someone who can demonstrably use semi colons correctly.
    Might have been a fluke.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057
    HYUFD said:
    Texan infrastructure is the product of a socialist government?
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I could never vote for someone who doesn't use "your" and "you're" correctly.

    Also, I'm a bit concerned about how the weak are going to "parish".
    Many parishes are very weak, so they're already there.

    I'm more curious what he thinks local government is for if not to help people in an emergency - surely even small state advocates think emergencies are suitable for action? So why was he even on it in the first place?

    But 'City' is a bit of a grand name for a place smaller than many villages.
    Ever been to Wells? Or St David’s?
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    I just tried to sign up to Virgin's new reward program, and was greeted with this wonderful affront to logic:

    Check the boxes if you’d prefer NOT to be contacted by:
    [ ] Not via email

    [ ] Not via SMS

    [ ] Not via telephone

    If I don't want them to contact me at all, do I check all three boxes, or none of them?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I could never vote for someone who doesn't use "your" and "you're" correctly.

    Also, I'm a bit concerned about how the weak are going to "parish".
    Many parishes are very weak, so they're already there.

    I'm more curious what he thinks local government is for if not to help people in an emergency - surely even small state advocates think emergencies are suitable for action? So why was he even on it in the first place?

    But 'City' is a bit of a grand name for a place smaller than many villages.
    Ever been to Wells? Or St David’s?
    I could be wrong, but Colorado City may lack certain other features that make village sized places like those a bit grander than their mere scale would otherwise suggest (Wells is a lot bigger than even the largest village status places I have seen though).
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957

    HYUFD said:
    Texan infrastructure is the product of a socialist government?
    The existence of Government itself is Socialist don't you know!
    Which raises the question why he wanted to be mayor?
    Clearly a Communist.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,944
    edited February 2021

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck Facebook. Fuck Google.

    C'mon Joe Biden. If you can do ONE GOOD THING in your stupid elderly presidency, apart from Not Being Donald, it is this. Break up the great internet monopolies. Facebook, Google. Apple, Twitter, Amazon,

    This is what America is FOR and if it can't do it, just hand over to China now, because they just might (on the grounds of healthy capitalism, not free speech)
    You are attacking the wrong people. This is entirely the result of idiotic Australian laws that mean that if anyone posts news items from Australian outlets then Facebook is liable for that. It is the Australians who are behaving like the Chinese in this case not Facebook or Google.
    I confess - a rarity on PB - I have not read the minutiae of the Aussie proposal.

    But the larger point is true. Are the huge Silicon Valley megacorps monopolistic, in a bad way? Yes, absolutely. Facebook is classically monopolistic. It buys up all rivals (WhatsApp, Insta) and either runs them into the ground or slowly incorporates them into the monolith. It is downright evil. And it collects so much data.

    Fuck Facebook. Break it up, the same way America broke up Standard Oil in the early 20th century. The USA was THE world power for a century partly because it was willing to do stuff like this, which apparently hampered US companies but actually benefited US capitalism (and everyone else).

    If the USA can no longer do this, it is no longer fit for purpose.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil
    The problem you have with that analogy is that Standard Oil was shafting the buyers of their product through their monopoly position. The customers were rather pleased when that monopoly was broken.

    Facebook - since it is free at the point of use - is not shafting its customer base financially. Indeed most of its customers seem to be very happy with the fact it is free even if they get occasionally pissed off with the rather strange algorithm based censorship. Those that don't use it mostly don't care.

    Break it up and I will guarantee you will piss off a hell of a lot more people than you please.
    Facebook - and Google, and Twitter - only *appear* to be free, as they distribute news, memes, gifs. In truth they are freeriders, exploiting the hard journalistic/creative work of others, often paid, often underpaid, often not paid at all. Thus they crush creativity and journalism, at source, and we are all poorer

    Look at a viral video. How much does the maker make? Usually pennies, compared to the millions of dollars it will generate for the internet giants.

    I prefer a world where the creator becomes a squillionaire, like the Beatles, and all the cash does not go to the passive relayers, like Mark Zuckerburg

    Your precious Facebook will still exist if it is forced to float away other parts of its monopolistic empire
    You really think a single viral video makes millions of dollars for the internet giants?

    I think your maths have gone screwy somewhere.
    Of course a viral video makes money. Take Gangnam Style. It has made megamillions for YouTube, and we know this because it made millions for its creator. The artist, here, was defended by the K-Pop industry and lots of lawyers, so he was able to get his chunk. Many others go entirely unrewarded. I see it happen on social media daily. Vids that could make thousands, millions, simply handed over and piratised, because the corporations like FB and Google just fuck them over.


    https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/google-gangnam-style-earned-8-million-from-youtube-alone-3618049.html#:~:text=K-Pop Sensation Psy's Gangnam,alone, it has been revealed.&text=In December, Gangnam Style had,garner a billion views worldwide.
    Gangnam Style made millions in revenue once it had reached a billion views yes.

    Not many "viral videos" make billions of views.
    Surely the principle here is that the government is forcing Facebook to pay for links other people are freely choosing to post.

    Everyone hates big tech, but isn't that a dangerous principle?

    How long would this site last if OGH was forced to pay every time one of us lot posted a link? Surely Scott could bankrupt the site in a day?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Texan infrastructure is the product of a socialist government?
    The existence of Government itself is Socialist don't you know!
    Which raises the question why he wanted to be mayor?
    Clearly a Communist.
    Colorado City is in Mitchell County which voted 84% for Trump last year, so can't imagine his views are too far beyond the mainstream there, extreme though they would seem here and even to the average American
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Texan infrastructure is the product of a socialist government?
    The existence of Government itself is Socialist don't you know!
    Which raises the question why he wanted to be mayor?
    Clearly a Communist.
    Colorado City is in Mitchell County which voted 84% for Trump last year, so can't imagine his views are too far beyond the mainstream there, extreme though they would seem here and even to the average American
    This is why I can't get any traction for this Anglosphere stuff. It's proponents are rarely thinking of rural Texas, Fort McMurray, Alberta nor northern Queensland.
    Or maybe they are. And wish we were more like them?
    I dunno.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Texan infrastructure is the product of a socialist government?
    The existence of Government itself is Socialist don't you know!
    Which raises the question why he wanted to be mayor?
    Clearly a Communist.
    Colorado City is in Mitchell County which voted 84% for Trump last year, so can't imagine his views are too far beyond the mainstream there, extreme though they would seem here and even to the average American
    Though DOES appear that the mayor perhaps got a wee bit ahead of this constituency, at least on this occasion?

    Nothing like being stuck for days in a blizzard without heat to soften one's libertarian convictions, leastways around the edges!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Texan infrastructure is the product of a socialist government?
    The existence of Government itself is Socialist don't you know!
    Which raises the question why he wanted to be mayor?
    Clearly a Communist.
    Colorado City is in Mitchell County which voted 84% for Trump last year, so can't imagine his views are too far beyond the mainstream there, extreme though they would seem here and even to the average American
    This is why I can't get any traction for this Anglosphere stuff. It's proponents are rarely thinking of rural Texas, Fort McMurray, Alberta nor northern Queensland.
    Or maybe they are. And wish we were more like them?
    I dunno.
    Mind you very rural places anywhere often tend to be very conservative, a village in North Yorkshire probably has more in common politically with rural America or at least rural Canada than it does with New York city, San Francisco or London for example
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Texan infrastructure is the product of a socialist government?
    The existence of Government itself is Socialist don't you know!
    Which raises the question why he wanted to be mayor?
    Clearly a Communist.
    Colorado City is in Mitchell County which voted 84% for Trump last year, so can't imagine his views are too far beyond the mainstream there, extreme though they would seem here and even to the average American
    Though DOES appear that the mayor perhaps got a wee bit ahead of this constituency, at least on this occasion?

    Nothing like being stuck for days in a blizzard without heat to soften one's libertarian convictions, leastways around the edges!
    Let's get rid of the government. Great!
    A rugged self-reliant individual then falls into crisis.
    And where is the government at my hour of need? Nowhere to be seen.
    Proof that government doesn't work.
    QED.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,886



    Porterhouse Blue is my go-to for an accurate depiction of how Cambridge works.

    The portrayal of Sir Godber Evans and Lady Mary -- failed Labour politician and his wealthy Liberal wife -- is one of the most vicious in all satirical literature.

    The satirising of Oxford academics in Morse is also a lot of fun -- the episode where the Master is a devil-worshipper & the Bursar is a pornographer is a stand-out.
    Our Provost was apparently the inspiration for Sir Les Patterson...
    Zelman Cowen? I didn't hear that one...
    It was the rumour, though I have no way to back it up. Having heard him speak to a crowd of very drunk rowers at a Bump Supper I can believe it though.
    Oh, it is 100% believable, yes.

    Still, he was a level up from some of the more recent incumbents.
    So were you at Oriel?
    A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, yes. A subject with an even lower level of literacy than Physics (as you can probably tell).
    An engineer then.
    :smile:
  • Options
    theProletheProle Posts: 948
    rcs1000 said:

    theProle said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Seyi Omooba: Actress sacked over anti-gay post loses legal fight

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-56089759

    That's an interesting case.

    Now, she is free to post what she likes.

    But at the same time, if having her on stage causes ticket receipts to drop or makes it harder to raise money from donors because people don't want to be seen to be supporting a homophobic actress, then isn't that the Theatre company's prerogative?

    The theatre company has to make the decisions that are best for it; it's directors or trustees have moral and fiduciary responsibilities. They don't have a broader remit to support people whose private views result in lower revenues.
    Isn't the test of this the inverse? Imagine she was a strong advocate for gay rights, but it was thought by the theatre company that this would cause tickets sales to drop, could they sack her for making her views public? I think we all know the answer to this...
    Surely, though, it is unpopular opinions that would cause sales to drop.

    But here's the thing: just as I support the right of clubs to enforce ties, or the right of restaurants to prohibit children or breastfeeding, I support the right of businesses to make the decisions that are for the good of their shareholders.

    Ultimately, the Directors or Trustees have an absolute moral imperative, and it's not to promote free speech.

    I feel very strongly about this, and the whole shit around "stakeholders" in businesses. There is a moral obligation on behalf of Directors, and you cannot muddy it by giving them amorphous and ambiguous obligations to people to whom they are not beholden.
    I don't disagree with your take. My point is that this is only being permitted because her views are "unfashionable". If she say was the sales rep for a firm that made church pews, it's reasonably likely (and certainly arguable) that her expressing strong opinions in favour of gay rights will hinder sales. But I don't think I'd fancy being the manager defending a decision to sack her to an employment tribunal.

    And this is the problem, because we have a neither fish nor foul situation where an employee can be dismissed for expressing some unfashionable views, but not for some expressing some fashionable ones.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Texan infrastructure is the product of a socialist government?
    The existence of Government itself is Socialist don't you know!
    Which raises the question why he wanted to be mayor?
    Clearly a Communist.
    Colorado City is in Mitchell County which voted 84% for Trump last year, so can't imagine his views are too far beyond the mainstream there, extreme though they would seem here and even to the average American
    This is why I can't get any traction for this Anglosphere stuff. It's proponents are rarely thinking of rural Texas, Fort McMurray, Alberta nor northern Queensland.
    Or maybe they are. And wish we were more like them?
    I dunno.
    Mind you very rural places anywhere often tend to be very conservative, a village in North Yorkshire probably has more in common politically with rural America or at least rural Canada than it does with New York city, San Francisco or London for example
    Its a question of degree though. Can't think of anywhere in the Britain would get an 84% vote for anyone. Doubtless you can find one. Let alone anyone like Trump.
  • Options
    theProletheProle Posts: 948
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Texan infrastructure is the product of a socialist government?
    The existence of Government itself is Socialist don't you know!
    Which raises the question why he wanted to be mayor?
    Clearly a Communist.
    Colorado City is in Mitchell County which voted 84% for Trump last year, so can't imagine his views are too far beyond the mainstream there, extreme though they would seem here and even to the average American
    This is why I can't get any traction for this Anglosphere stuff. It's proponents are rarely thinking of rural Texas, Fort McMurray, Alberta nor northern Queensland.
    Or maybe they are. And wish we were more like them?
    I dunno.
    Mind you very rural places anywhere often tend to be very conservative, a village in North Yorkshire probably has more in common politically with rural America or at least rural Canada than it does with New York city, San Francisco or London for example
    Its a question of degree though. Can't think of anywhere in the Britain would get an 84% vote for anyone. Doubtless you can find one. Let alone anyone like Trump.
    Liverpool Walton. Labour 85.7% at GE 2019

    That was just the likely first constituency I thought of to check - turns out to be the highest vote share of any candidate in 2019.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Texan infrastructure is the product of a socialist government?
    The existence of Government itself is Socialist don't you know!
    Which raises the question why he wanted to be mayor?
    Clearly a Communist.
    Colorado City is in Mitchell County which voted 84% for Trump last year, so can't imagine his views are too far beyond the mainstream there, extreme though they would seem here and even to the average American
    This is why I can't get any traction for this Anglosphere stuff. It's proponents are rarely thinking of rural Texas, Fort McMurray, Alberta nor northern Queensland.
    Or maybe they are. And wish we were more like them?
    I dunno.
    Mind you very rural places anywhere often tend to be very conservative, a village in North Yorkshire probably has more in common politically with rural America or at least rural Canada than it does with New York city, San Francisco or London for example
    Its a question of degree though. Can't think of anywhere in the Britain would get an 84% vote for anyone. Doubtless you can find one. Let alone anyone like Trump.
    Boston in Lincolnshire voted 76% for Brexit, of course if you went down to village level you could find higher levels than that
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    For those interested in the SARS-CoV-2 virus mutations and what this might mean for COVID vaccination efficacy, a very good review paper from the American Society for Microbiology:

    https://asm.org/Articles/2021/February/SARS-CoV-2-Variants-vs-Vaccines?fbclid=IwAR26O5ysLTBJgmtJJ8EAo0QAWjtNTh5TDcUd9SOESjnPBp1NPfUUaq6hv_M
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957
    theProle said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Texan infrastructure is the product of a socialist government?
    The existence of Government itself is Socialist don't you know!
    Which raises the question why he wanted to be mayor?
    Clearly a Communist.
    Colorado City is in Mitchell County which voted 84% for Trump last year, so can't imagine his views are too far beyond the mainstream there, extreme though they would seem here and even to the average American
    This is why I can't get any traction for this Anglosphere stuff. It's proponents are rarely thinking of rural Texas, Fort McMurray, Alberta nor northern Queensland.
    Or maybe they are. And wish we were more like them?
    I dunno.
    Mind you very rural places anywhere often tend to be very conservative, a village in North Yorkshire probably has more in common politically with rural America or at least rural Canada than it does with New York city, San Francisco or London for example
    Its a question of degree though. Can't think of anywhere in the Britain would get an 84% vote for anyone. Doubtless you can find one. Let alone anyone like Trump.
    Liverpool Walton. Labour 85.7% at GE 2019

    That was just the likely first constituency I thought of to check - turns out to be the highest vote share of any candidate in 2019.
    Yep. Fair enough.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    theProle said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Texan infrastructure is the product of a socialist government?
    The existence of Government itself is Socialist don't you know!
    Which raises the question why he wanted to be mayor?
    Clearly a Communist.
    Colorado City is in Mitchell County which voted 84% for Trump last year, so can't imagine his views are too far beyond the mainstream there, extreme though they would seem here and even to the average American
    This is why I can't get any traction for this Anglosphere stuff. It's proponents are rarely thinking of rural Texas, Fort McMurray, Alberta nor northern Queensland.
    Or maybe they are. And wish we were more like them?
    I dunno.
    Mind you very rural places anywhere often tend to be very conservative, a village in North Yorkshire probably has more in common politically with rural America or at least rural Canada than it does with New York city, San Francisco or London for example
    Its a question of degree though. Can't think of anywhere in the Britain would get an 84% vote for anyone. Doubtless you can find one. Let alone anyone like Trump.
    Liverpool Walton. Labour 85.7% at GE 2019

    That was just the likely first constituency I thought of to check - turns out to be the highest vote share of any candidate in 2019.
    A Tory-held seat until 1964!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,979
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Texan infrastructure is the product of a socialist government?
    The existence of Government itself is Socialist don't you know!
    Which raises the question why he wanted to be mayor?
    Clearly a Communist.
    Colorado City is in Mitchell County which voted 84% for Trump last year, so can't imagine his views are too far beyond the mainstream there, extreme though they would seem here and even to the average American
    This is why I can't get any traction for this Anglosphere stuff. It's proponents are rarely thinking of rural Texas, Fort McMurray, Alberta nor northern Queensland.
    Or maybe they are. And wish we were more like them?
    I dunno.
    I like Fort McMurray.

    So long as you avoid summer (eaten by horseflies), winter (death by exposure), and stay away from rowdy bars filled with pissed oil workers, then you'll be absolutely fine.

    A couple of years ago, it was one of the few places on earth where someone with a High School education, who didn't mind working 80 hours a week, could earn $200,000/year.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    You’d think that having demonstrated its third world credentials first with the election and second with the coup, this third demonstration wasn’t really necessary?

    The lack of power to about a quarter of the state has created a widespread emergency, with families huddling in homes or cars without heat, burst water pipes, failing water systems and gasoline shortages.

    Barbara Martinez said she had been burning firewood to try to heat her suburban Houston home, which had been without power from early Sunday until Tuesday.

    The controlled outages have created rotating power issues as ERCOT has tried to spread around the pain, pushing people to rely on warming centers or the kindness of neighbors. "We have power for about 30 or 15 minutes and then we get a blackout for about five to six hours," said Eder Lemus of San Antonio.

    The pipes in his house froze, so he, his wife and three children are relying on others for water. for water. "As of now, we are using a neighbor's faucet to refill a bucket of water to drain our toilets," he told said. "When and if the lights come back on, we try to take showers and refill our drinking water gallons so that we can stay hydrated."

    The Federal Emergency Management Agency is preparing to begin distributing 60 generators, millions of liters of water and tens of thousands of blankets in Texas, according to a FEMA source. More shipments are expected in the coming days and weeks.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,512
    edited February 2021
    ..
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,512
    Endillion said:

    I just tried to sign up to Virgin's new reward program, and was greeted with this wonderful affront to logic:

    Check the boxes if you’d prefer NOT to be contacted by:
    [ ] Not via email

    [ ] Not via SMS

    [ ] Not via telephone

    If I don't want them to contact me at all, do I check all three boxes, or none of them?

    That'll be the postman, then.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,512
    theProle said:

    rcs1000 said:

    theProle said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Seyi Omooba: Actress sacked over anti-gay post loses legal fight

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-56089759

    That's an interesting case.

    Now, she is free to post what she likes.

    But at the same time, if having her on stage causes ticket receipts to drop or makes it harder to raise money from donors because people don't want to be seen to be supporting a homophobic actress, then isn't that the Theatre company's prerogative?

    The theatre company has to make the decisions that are best for it; it's directors or trustees have moral and fiduciary responsibilities. They don't have a broader remit to support people whose private views result in lower revenues.
    Isn't the test of this the inverse? Imagine she was a strong advocate for gay rights, but it was thought by the theatre company that this would cause tickets sales to drop, could they sack her for making her views public? I think we all know the answer to this...
    Surely, though, it is unpopular opinions that would cause sales to drop.

    But here's the thing: just as I support the right of clubs to enforce ties, or the right of restaurants to prohibit children or breastfeeding, I support the right of businesses to make the decisions that are for the good of their shareholders.

    Ultimately, the Directors or Trustees have an absolute moral imperative, and it's not to promote free speech.

    I feel very strongly about this, and the whole shit around "stakeholders" in businesses. There is a moral obligation on behalf of Directors, and you cannot muddy it by giving them amorphous and ambiguous obligations to people to whom they are not beholden.
    I don't disagree with your take. My point is that this is only being permitted because her views are "unfashionable". If she say was the sales rep for a firm that made church pews, it's reasonably likely (and certainly arguable) that her expressing strong opinions in favour of gay rights will hinder sales. But I don't think I'd fancy being the manager defending a decision to sack her to an employment tribunal.

    And this is the problem, because we have a neither fish nor foul situation where an employee can be dismissed for expressing some unfashionable views, but not for some expressing some fashionable ones.
    I don't think that would make a shred of difference for a church pew company, certainly in the UK.
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