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Polling in 15 of the world’s leading countries finds Brits at the top of the league on wanting to be

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  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    kle4 said:

    Six and a half year on, the SNP still has no answer to the question "and the currency?"
    Perhaps, but do as many people still care about that question?
    How about the Pound?
    A pegged currency leaves you open to a foreign central bank over which you have no say
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    carnforth said:

    Those ferries are going to be travelling at 16 knots at eco speed. Must be significantly slower and more expensive to move goods around the UK coast than drive through the UK? Yet the Remainers are trumpeting this as a great advance in haulage.

    Hmmm..... If that is a win for the EU....
    What stops the Irish putting a "from the single market, honest" seal on the back of a truck, driving it through the UK, and having the french wave it through at calais? I understand such a system operates on trucks going Alaska <--> lower 48 via canada.
    The french
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited February 2021
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    UK R

    From cases

    image
    image

    From hospitalisations

    image

    Not really seeing a vaccine effect in the R rate yet. Given we have about 12m vaccinated that is a little disappointing, even if a fair chunk of those vaccines are not fully operative yet.
    We are absolutely seeing a vaccine effect in the R.
    It seems to have been sitting around 0.8 for about 3 weeks. Of course, given the new variants, it might have been going up but for the vaccines but I would like to see it start to fall a bit. If vaccinated people are generally not transmitters this should happen as the proportion of the population vaccinated increases.
    From gov.uk - estimates of R in the UK, expressed as ranges:

    06-Nov-20 1.1 1.3
    13-Nov-20 1 1.2
    20-Nov-20 1 1.1
    27-Nov-20 0.9 1
    04-Dec-20 0.8 1
    11-Dec-20 0.9 1
    18-Dec-20 1.1 1.2
    23-Dec-20 1.1 1.3
    08-Jan-21 1 1.4
    15-Jan-21 1.2 1.3
    22-Jan-21 0.8 1
    29-Jan-21 0.7 1.1
    05-Feb-21 0.7 1
    12-Feb-21 0.7 0.9

    This series is actually a little more wobbly than that for England alone, which shows a gradual but nonetheless clear and continuous decline since the start of the year.

    A range of 0.7-0.9 is also that which was estimated in June and July 2020, which is the lowest value achieved during the Summer.

    If these estimates are anything like accurate then R is indeed in decline, it's just quite gradual. This is a very stubborn Plague as, sadly, we are all too well aware.
  • stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    My brother got vaccinated on Wednesday - he has pre-existing health conditions and has shielded for much of the past year. As he has a weakened immune system, he has suffered a flu like reaction to the AZ virus but he was warned this was possible.

    He had no hesitation taking the vaccine despite the risks and there are some risks for those with poor immune systems but I spoke to him this evening and he is okay.

    I do think the very cold conditions this week have helped keep people indoors. I ventured to the local cafe to get lunch for me and Mrs Stodge (she enjoys a nice portion of bubble and squeak as I'm sure we all do). The owner is on his own and is surviving on his passing trade which is fine during the week - he closes at the weekends when most of his trade is sit down.

    Really glad your brother is doing well Stodge. Nice to get some good stories amongst all the terrible ones.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    edited February 2021

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Posted this on the previous thread without realising we had moved on...

    Mango said:


    How do you see PR being implemented? Referendum? Or with SNP votes in parliament as they are leaving the country? Not sure they win a referendum, and even as a big fan of PR I am not sure using SNP votes to decide a huge constitutional change for rUK would be acceptable. Also doesnt take many rebels to stop it happening, plenty of Labour MPs are not fans of PR.

    Various possibilities:

    1. The UK loses a war to a real democracy.
    2. A benevolent artificial super intelligence gradually assumes control of all global affairs.
    3. Labour MPs do something a) beneficial and b) strategically smart.
    4. My secret band of left/liberal desperados take the levers of power and bequeath a written constitution and sensible political settlement when the guillotining is done.

    Number 3 is the least likely.
    Surely the scenario set out earlier on this thread (forgive me I forget by whom) is the most likely.

    Labour gains power on the back of SNP support. This in turn is conditional on an Independence referendum.
    Labour realises that the Scots will vote for independence and that in turn will remove the Labour majority in the current Parliament and make it far less likely there will be one in future Parliaments.
    Labour, the SNP and the other minor parties push through a change to electoral law that all future votes are by a PR system.

    It may be constitutionally dodgy if there is no PR referendum and they have not included it in their manifesto but they would argue that Parliament is sovereign and should be able to chose how it is elected.

    For the record I am against PR but it seems perfectly feasible that it could be introduced in the way I describe.
    That's a bummer. I pride myself - with some justification - on being able to predict with almost spooky accuracy what each & every PB poster will think about any particular political proposition. And I had you down as approving of a measure of electoral reform away from pure FPTP and towards some form of PR. Total total shock at my gaff about this revelation.
    LOL. Don't be too shocked. It stems from my utter distrust of all politicians. PR for me basically means coalitions and coalitions mean yet another way for politicians to stitch things up the way they want it rather than the way the people want it. I realise this is an exaggeration to some extent but it is intended to illustrate the end point of my concerns about PR rather than being some hard and fast rule. Basically I look at the way the Lib Dems behaved in the last coalition and consider that that is just the latest example of how parties will use the 'necessity' to form coalitions as an excuse to betray their electorate.

    There is also a more fundamental reason that I dislike PR which is that it further cements the position of the party in the electoral system. Personally I think every vote in Parliament should be a free vote and whipping should be illegal. That is a viable and logical position if you are voting for an individual representative. If you are voting for a party obviously that legally and morally puts the party in a position of power over its MPs. Something I think is a retrograde step for democracy.

    Obviously this does not apply to systems such as AV which retain the constituency link and which do not award MPs on the basis of the proportion of votes gained by the party nationally but then as many people pointed out on here at the time of the referendum on electoral reform such a system is not really PR.

    Basically I see parties as an unnecessary evil in politics and oppose anything that increases their grip on the system.
    Precisely parties are the root of the problem which is why I suggested political reform the way I did in my header....made parties a thing of the past
    Sadly I was stuck in the middle of a dead-lined project when your posting went up. I do intend going back and taking a closer look at it at some point as the theories and ideas surrounding democracy and politics often interest me far more than the day to day practice of it which I find rather depressing most of the time. This in turn stems I think from the fact that I never cease to be amazed how short sighted and stupid most politicians of all parties seem to be. I do genuinely believe we are all, the world over, poorly served by the vast majority of our political classes.
    There was a lot of good discussion I think personally, someone said hell you set a record for a thread staying on topic. Any comments welcome to dm me
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    You'll be sorry when all the Motorway services on the M40 have closed, and nature calls.
    You know we have things called bottles now?
    Show some decorum please!
  • Following on from yesterday's polling on Brits wanting to share excess vaccines (and the UK's massive COVAX funding):

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/02/13/there-will-be-enough-vaccines-for-all-if-rich-countries-share


  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    You'll be sorry when all the Motorway services on the M40 have closed, and nature calls.
    You know we have things called bottles now?
    Show some decorum please!
    Hey they are recyclable bottles so thats doing my bit
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    Those ferries are going to be travelling at 16 knots at eco speed. Must be significantly slower and more expensive to move goods around the UK coast than drive through the UK? Yet the Remainers are trumpeting this as a great advance in haulage.

    Hmmm..... If that is a win for the EU....
    saves on fuel for the lorries
    But not cost.

    And those big RORO ferries are big polluters too.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    Is this happening in any other part of the UK?

    https://twitter.com/AnnieWellsMSP/status/1360216398128181253?s=20

    Jeane Freeman is apparently an essential witness in the retrial of Natalie McGarry. Which side she is "essential" for probably gives you a good idea of the outcome. The latest indication was that it was the defence. Oh dear.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Those ferries are going to be travelling at 16 knots at eco speed. Must be significantly slower and more expensive to move goods around the UK coast than drive through the UK? Yet the Remainers are trumpeting this as a great advance in haulage.

    Hmmm..... If that is a win for the EU....
    saves on fuel for the lorries
    But not cost.

    And those big RORO ferries are big polluters too.
    Was also curious that someone said the other day we have slipped from being germany's 3 biggest export market to 6th behind poland and being told this was a bad thing....we import less from germany is germany's problem not ours
  • Going gangbusters apparently.....

    https://youtu.be/6U8--wNL9aQ
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    UK R

    From cases

    image
    image

    From hospitalisations

    image

    Not really seeing a vaccine effect in the R rate yet. Given we have about 12m vaccinated that is a little disappointing, even if a fair chunk of those vaccines are not fully operative yet.
    We are absolutely seeing a vaccine effect in the R.
    It seems to have been sitting around 0.8 for about 3 weeks. Of course, given the new variants, it might have been going up but for the vaccines but I would like to see it start to fall a bit. If vaccinated people are generally not transmitters this should happen as the proportion of the population vaccinated increases.
    From gov.uk - estimates of R in the UK, expressed as ranges:

    06-Nov-20 1.1 1.3
    13-Nov-20 1 1.2
    20-Nov-20 1 1.1
    27-Nov-20 0.9 1
    04-Dec-20 0.8 1
    11-Dec-20 0.9 1
    18-Dec-20 1.1 1.2
    23-Dec-20 1.1 1.3
    08-Jan-21 1 1.4
    15-Jan-21 1.2 1.3
    22-Jan-21 0.8 1
    29-Jan-21 0.7 1.1
    05-Feb-21 0.7 1
    12-Feb-21 0.7 0.9

    This series is actually a little more wobbly than that for England alone, which shows a gradual but nonetheless clear and continuous decline since the start of the year.

    A range of 0.7-0.9 is also that which was estimated in June and July 2020, which is the lowest value achieved during the Summer.

    If these estimates are anything like accurate then R is indeed in decline, it's just quite gradual. This is a very stubborn Plague as, sadly, we are all too well aware.
    I obviously just need to be more patient.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Going gangbusters apparently.....

    https://youtu.be/6U8--wNL9aQ

    Just looking at the still......who let boris near what judging from the arm is a young female
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Going gangbusters apparently.....

    https://youtu.be/6U8--wNL9aQ

    His hair there is a little too obviously deliberately ruffled. There's an art to it looking messy and thus on brand, and yet not so blatantly mucked up before the camera rolls.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    UK R

    From cases

    image
    image

    From hospitalisations

    image

    Not really seeing a vaccine effect in the R rate yet. Given we have about 12m vaccinated that is a little disappointing, even if a fair chunk of those vaccines are not fully operative yet.
    We are absolutely seeing a vaccine effect in the R.
    It seems to have been sitting around 0.8 for about 3 weeks. Of course, given the new variants, it might have been going up but for the vaccines but I would like to see it start to fall a bit. If vaccinated people are generally not transmitters this should happen as the proportion of the population vaccinated increases.
    That's not how R works. We should already have seen it start to rise by now this far into a lockdown.
    You are going to have to explain that Max (if you can be arsed). My understanding was that the whole point of a lockdown was to reduce the R number.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    UK R

    From cases

    image
    image

    From hospitalisations

    image

    Not really seeing a vaccine effect in the R rate yet. Given we have about 12m vaccinated that is a little disappointing, even if a fair chunk of those vaccines are not fully operative yet.
    We are absolutely seeing a vaccine effect in the R.
    It seems to have been sitting around 0.8 for about 3 weeks. Of course, given the new variants, it might have been going up but for the vaccines but I would like to see it start to fall a bit. If vaccinated people are generally not transmitters this should happen as the proportion of the population vaccinated increases.
    That's not how R works. We should already have seen it start to rise by now this far into a lockdown.
    You are going to have to explain that Max (if you can be arsed). My understanding was that the whole point of a lockdown was to reduce the R number.
    I posted an explanation previously, but busy doing some last minute packing at the moment so will have to find it later.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    UK R

    From cases

    image
    image

    From hospitalisations

    image

    Not really seeing a vaccine effect in the R rate yet. Given we have about 12m vaccinated that is a little disappointing, even if a fair chunk of those vaccines are not fully operative yet.
    We are absolutely seeing a vaccine effect in the R.
    It seems to have been sitting around 0.8 for about 3 weeks. Of course, given the new variants, it might have been going up but for the vaccines but I would like to see it start to fall a bit. If vaccinated people are generally not transmitters this should happen as the proportion of the population vaccinated increases.
    From gov.uk - estimates of R in the UK, expressed as ranges:

    06-Nov-20 1.1 1.3
    13-Nov-20 1 1.2
    20-Nov-20 1 1.1
    27-Nov-20 0.9 1
    04-Dec-20 0.8 1
    11-Dec-20 0.9 1
    18-Dec-20 1.1 1.2
    23-Dec-20 1.1 1.3
    08-Jan-21 1 1.4
    15-Jan-21 1.2 1.3
    22-Jan-21 0.8 1
    29-Jan-21 0.7 1.1
    05-Feb-21 0.7 1
    12-Feb-21 0.7 0.9

    This series is actually a little more wobbly than that for England alone, which shows a gradual but nonetheless clear and continuous decline since the start of the year.

    A range of 0.7-0.9 is also that which was estimated in June and July 2020, which is the lowest value achieved during the Summer.

    If these estimates are anything like accurate then R is indeed in decline, it's just quite gradual. This is a very stubborn Plague as, sadly, we are all too well aware.
    I obviously just need to be more patient.
    Which isn't easy. We've all been trapped in this washing machine and being spun round and round for rather a long time now.

    Anyway, some more good news: English regions - R below 1 across the board, best in those that were hit hardest by the Kent Plague

    Region : R (range) : Growth rate % per day

    England : 0.7 to 0.9 : -5 to -3

    East of England : 0.7 to 0.9 : -6 to -3
    London : 0.6 to 0.8 : -6 to -4
    Midlands : 0.7 to 0.9 : -4 to -2
    North East and Yorkshire : 0.8 to 0.9 : -4 to -1
    North West : 0.7 to 0.9 : -4 to -2
    South East : 0.7 to 0.8 : -6 to -3
    South West : 0.7 to 0.9 : -5 to -3
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    You'll be sorry when all the Motorway services on the M40 have closed, and nature calls.
    Only if I am on the M40 at the time. Which seems a somewhat unlikely scenario.
  • DavidL said:

    Is this happening in any other part of the UK?

    https://twitter.com/AnnieWellsMSP/status/1360216398128181253?s=20

    Jeane Freeman is apparently an essential witness in the retrial of Natalie McGarry. Which side she is "essential" for probably gives you a good idea of the outcome. The latest indication was that it was the defence. Oh dear.
    There is a serious point that come purdah the "Chief Mammy" act should be taken off air.

    Not that there are many "neutral" experts in SNP Scotland anymore (yes Prof Sridhar, I'm looking at you...)
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851
    Looking forward to the documentary on BBC2 with some nice Lemon Sole from M&S. Very reasonably priced I thought. Any hope of us getting more affordable fish now we're cut off from selling to Europe?

    However it doesn't appear that the UK caught quota needs to be landed here so maybe not.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893

    Going gangbusters apparently.....

    https://youtu.be/6U8--wNL9aQ

    Who actually uses the term "gangbusters" ?

    I've never heard anyone use it in conversation - though it seems popular with some.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    UK R

    From cases

    image
    image

    From hospitalisations

    image

    Not really seeing a vaccine effect in the R rate yet. Given we have about 12m vaccinated that is a little disappointing, even if a fair chunk of those vaccines are not fully operative yet.
    We are absolutely seeing a vaccine effect in the R.
    It seems to have been sitting around 0.8 for about 3 weeks. Of course, given the new variants, it might have been going up but for the vaccines but I would like to see it start to fall a bit. If vaccinated people are generally not transmitters this should happen as the proportion of the population vaccinated increases.
    That's not how R works. We should already have seen it start to rise by now this far into a lockdown.
    You are going to have to explain that Max (if you can be arsed). My understanding was that the whole point of a lockdown was to reduce the R number.
    I posted an explanation previously, but busy doing some last minute packing at the moment so will have to find it later.
    Packing? You are actually going somewhere? How exciting. I had 4 days in Edinburgh this week for various court hearings (all remote). It wasn't nearly as exciting as it should have been. Edinburgh is closed and its heart is no longer beating.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    The obvious answer here is no, it wont change the fact they were executed and no on living was responsible
  • Is this happening in any other part of the UK?

    https://twitter.com/AnnieWellsMSP/status/1360216398128181253?s=20

    Downing Street Briefings as well?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893


    Really glad your brother is doing well Stodge. Nice to get some good stories amongst all the terrible ones.

    Thanks for the kind word, he's had a number of health issues (including cancer) and I was really worried when he contracted Covid last spring but fortunately the symptoms, though persistent, were mild and he never needed to go to hospital or anything like that.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll never really understand the Green figure. Other parties are pretty darn green thesedays, and with 7% they cannot all be radical Corbynistas.
    Isn't the SNP figure also "wrong" in the sense that it would mean they were getting 100% of the vote in Scotland? Possibly, but not based on the Scottish polls at the moment
    Not nec; Scotland is 8-9% of the population (not sure about voting population).

    PS It usually bumps up and down between 4 and 5% of the UK poll which isn't grossly out, esp given the raltively elderly Scottosh population.
    Fair enough. For some reason I thought Scotland was about 5% of the population

    @Theuniondivvie
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,041
    The Lib Dems have been carrying out a big on line canvassing operation in the last weeks. This may be why there is a slight uptick in their poll ratings.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    It makes you so glad that we have devolved government. Who could possibly question that the Scottish Parliament in their, err, very expensive building, is serving the essential needs of Scotland by addressing this injustice?

    Well Professor Cuisine for one. He suggested that the Scottish Parliament look to address the possible planning violations of Antonius Pius and his wall at the same time.
  • Is this happening in any other part of the UK?

    https://twitter.com/AnnieWellsMSP/status/1360216398128181253?s=20

    Downing Street Briefings as well?
    There are not elections to the UK parliament and the briefings don't criticise politicians from other parts of the UK.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    slade said:

    The Lib Dems have been carrying out a big on line canvassing operation in the last weeks. This may be why there is a slight uptick in their poll ratings.

    "Oh, you're still around?"
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    You'll be sorry when all the Motorway services on the M40 have closed, and nature calls.
    Only if I am on the M40 at the time. Which seems a somewhat unlikely scenario.
    After Nippy engineers a reverse takeover of England, Scottish Advocates will be in great demand in Oxford. You'll be sorry then!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    DavidL said:

    It makes you so glad that we have devolved government. Who could possibly question that the Scottish Parliament in their, err, very expensive building, is serving the essential needs of Scotland by addressing this injustice?

    Well Professor Cuisine for one. He suggested that the Scottish Parliament look to address the possible planning violations of Antonius Pius and his wall at the same time.
    Gods this idea we have to apologise for thinks people did in a couple of centuries ago has to stop and I say that as someone who might well have been a victim back then.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Pagan2 said:

    OllyT said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Senators supposed to be jurors in cases of impeachment ?

    https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1360258176478814210

    Not sure why they care how unprepared the team was, everyone can see the votes are there since before the trial even started. And it's not like they worry about the liberal media thinking that makes them look craven.
    Trump is using it to say the election was stolen.
    R Senators want him to say he didnt mean to incite the crowds. Trump wont do that for them.
    As always it is Trump demonstrating he has power, and the Senators wishing he didn't but unable or unwilling to stop him acting as he pleases.
    As political acts of abject, unprincipled cowardice go, the GOP senators refusal to convict Donald Trump has to be right up there.
    Any GOP Senator who votes to convict Trump will face a primary challenge they would probably lose, with a few exceptions like Romney in Utah where he has a big personal vote.

    The same goes for the 10 GOP Representatives who voted to impeach Trump.

    Turkeys do not vote for Christmas
    But why should the electorate vote for anyone who will not defend the Constitution when they have the chance? This GOP, out of fear of being primaried, have foregone any justification for being elected.

    It is so cowardly and unprincipled - they are not even prepared to fight for their own beliefs, let alone the Constitution. The GOP as constituted is not fit for purpose.
    There are plenty of Republican Senators who also think the Impeachment trial is a sham and that, if you are looking to convict Trump on incitement, then there should be plenty of Democrats facing the same as well. It's not all down to being craven and fearful.
    And which of those Democrats lost the presidential election, then activated the long prepared smear that it was stolen, then fed this lie relentlessly to their softhead base whilst launching a series of frivolous "only for show" court actions, then called a massive demo against the confirmation of his legal successor - the election winner - on confirmation day, then whipped that crowd up into a frenzy of righteous indignation and told them to march on the capitol and "fight" for the future their country? Precisely none. This is false equivalence of a degree amounting to blatant propaganda for Donald Trump. This now pointed out, I sincerely hope you will desist with it.
    The longer that Trump apologists like Mr Ed continue to pretend to believe that Trump did nothing wrong, the better it will get for the Democrats. The GOP seems to have learned nothing from their 2 Senate losses in Georgia
    Does calling people trump apologists help? I am in no doubt a corbyn government government would have been worse by far than trumps as corbyn would actually have tried to do stuff. Should I then through corbyn apologists at his many supporters here and how would that help debate?
    It's an accurate description for people who seek to excuse Trump's actions rather than actually come out in support of them.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    You'll be sorry when all the Motorway services on the M40 have closed, and nature calls.
    Only if I am on the M40 at the time. Which seems a somewhat unlikely scenario.
    After Nippy engineers a reverse takeover of England, Scottish Advocates will be in great demand in Oxford. You'll be sorry then!
    Damn.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    You'll be sorry when all the Motorway services on the M40 have closed, and nature calls.
    Only if I am on the M40 at the time. Which seems a somewhat unlikely scenario.
    After Nippy engineers a reverse takeover of England, Scottish Advocates will be in great demand in Oxford. You'll be sorry then!
    Damn.
    Edit. Of course I am anticipating a trip to Oxford in October for reasons I have already disclosed.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    OllyT said:

    Pagan2 said:

    OllyT said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Senators supposed to be jurors in cases of impeachment ?

    https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1360258176478814210

    Not sure why they care how unprepared the team was, everyone can see the votes are there since before the trial even started. And it's not like they worry about the liberal media thinking that makes them look craven.
    Trump is using it to say the election was stolen.
    R Senators want him to say he didnt mean to incite the crowds. Trump wont do that for them.
    As always it is Trump demonstrating he has power, and the Senators wishing he didn't but unable or unwilling to stop him acting as he pleases.
    As political acts of abject, unprincipled cowardice go, the GOP senators refusal to convict Donald Trump has to be right up there.
    Any GOP Senator who votes to convict Trump will face a primary challenge they would probably lose, with a few exceptions like Romney in Utah where he has a big personal vote.

    The same goes for the 10 GOP Representatives who voted to impeach Trump.

    Turkeys do not vote for Christmas
    But why should the electorate vote for anyone who will not defend the Constitution when they have the chance? This GOP, out of fear of being primaried, have foregone any justification for being elected.

    It is so cowardly and unprincipled - they are not even prepared to fight for their own beliefs, let alone the Constitution. The GOP as constituted is not fit for purpose.
    There are plenty of Republican Senators who also think the Impeachment trial is a sham and that, if you are looking to convict Trump on incitement, then there should be plenty of Democrats facing the same as well. It's not all down to being craven and fearful.
    And which of those Democrats lost the presidential election, then activated the long prepared smear that it was stolen, then fed this lie relentlessly to their softhead base whilst launching a series of frivolous "only for show" court actions, then called a massive demo against the confirmation of his legal successor - the election winner - on confirmation day, then whipped that crowd up into a frenzy of righteous indignation and told them to march on the capitol and "fight" for the future their country? Precisely none. This is false equivalence of a degree amounting to blatant propaganda for Donald Trump. This now pointed out, I sincerely hope you will desist with it.
    The longer that Trump apologists like Mr Ed continue to pretend to believe that Trump did nothing wrong, the better it will get for the Democrats. The GOP seems to have learned nothing from their 2 Senate losses in Georgia
    Does calling people trump apologists help? I am in no doubt a corbyn government government would have been worse by far than trumps as corbyn would actually have tried to do stuff. Should I then through corbyn apologists at his many supporters here and how would that help debate?
    It's an accurate description for people who seek to excuse Trump's actions rather than actually come out in support of them.
    You supported corbyns actions his were far worse if he had held the levers of power. Until trump tried to rig the election most things he did were no where near as bad.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    It makes you so glad that we have devolved government. Who could possibly question that the Scottish Parliament in their, err, very expensive building, is serving the essential needs of Scotland by addressing this injustice?

    Well Professor Cuisine for one. He suggested that the Scottish Parliament look to address the possible planning violations of Antonius Pius and his wall at the same time.
    Gods this idea we have to apologise for thinks people did in a couple of centuries ago has to stop and I say that as someone who might well have been a victim back then.
    If we had a half decent justice system @Pagan2 you'd be a victim now. 😊
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    Hospitals a major vector in the first wave.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9254495/Stopping-Covid-spreading-hospitals-substantial-reduction-wave-deaths.html

    Also there's a huge jump in antibodies detected with 75 - 79 yr olds -> 80+ year olds (8.4% -> 25.7%), indicates to my mind that longer hospital stays and care homes have been major vectors in the pandemic.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    kinabalu said:

    It's amazing how in the absence of certain individuals the chat seems quite pleasant and interesting, rather than vile and rancid.

    Anglosphere!
    Germans!
    Wokerati!
    War!
    WAR!!!!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    It makes you so glad that we have devolved government. Who could possibly question that the Scottish Parliament in their, err, very expensive building, is serving the essential needs of Scotland by addressing this injustice?

    Well Professor Cuisine for one. He suggested that the Scottish Parliament look to address the possible planning violations of Antonius Pius and his wall at the same time.
    Gods this idea we have to apologise for thinks people did in a couple of centuries ago has to stop and I say that as someone who might well have been a victim back then.
    If we had a half decent justice system @Pagan2 you'd be a victim now. 😊
    Well free to try me for witchcraft if you like, I will merely plead mitigating circumstances
  • The problem was that The Union Unit just didn't sound wanky enough, now fixed.
    These dicks know how the Vietnam War turned out, don't they?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1360329888662716418?s=20
  • One of the challenges of hotel quarantine:

    https://twitter.com/JadeGailberger/status/1360326222207569920?s=20
  • kle4 said:

    Going gangbusters apparently.....

    https://youtu.be/6U8--wNL9aQ

    His hair there is a little too obviously deliberately ruffled. There's an art to it looking messy and thus on brand, and yet not so blatantly mucked up before the camera rolls.
    Never mind the hair, what about the fake selfie on a wobbly iphone effect?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Pagan2 said:

    The obvious answer here is no, it wont change the fact they were executed and no on living was responsible
    So, not a believer in vampires then. Or do the undead not count as "living"? These are indeed pressing issues and if we are lucky it might leave the Scottish Parliament insufficient time to debate the latest version of the Hate Speech bill which remains an abomination.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The obvious answer here is no, it wont change the fact they were executed and no on living was responsible
    So, not a believer in vampires then. Or do the undead not count as "living"? These are indeed pressing issues and if we are lucky it might leave the Scottish Parliament insufficient time to debate the latest version of the Hate Speech bill which remains an abomination.
    Why would I believe in vampires or other undead, apart from the louse of hords
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll never really understand the Green figure. Other parties are pretty darn green thesedays, and with 7% they cannot all be radical Corbynistas.
    Isn't the SNP figure also "wrong" in the sense that it would mean they were getting 100% of the vote in Scotland? Possibly, but not based on the Scottish polls at the moment
    Not nec; Scotland is 8-9% of the population (not sure about voting population).

    PS It usually bumps up and down between 4 and 5% of the UK poll which isn't grossly out, esp given the raltively elderly Scottosh population.
    Fair enough. For some reason I thought Scotland was about 5% of the population

    @Theuniondivvie

    Charles said:

    felix said:



    Clearly you have to be batshit crazy to get into Oxford these days...

    'Twas ever thus. (Answering for a friend.)
    I spent one of my PPE interviews talking about a bridge.

    The second my future economics tutors was on his hands and knees looking for his biro (it was in his top pocket)... he went on to serve on the Bank of England monetary policy committee...
    Great advert for the elite that believes it has a natural entitlement to run the country.
    Actually he was a brilliant macroeconomist, just scatty and disorganised.

    It was Brown who appointed him to the MPC.

    (He said that it reminded him of the famous quote about harlots... power without responsibility)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Going gangbusters apparently.....

    https://youtu.be/6U8--wNL9aQ

    I know everyone on here hates Boris, but.... that is almost-genius communication. He does this stuff very well. It's his metier. Getting over a message, hair all over the place, a sense of slight amusement, you happily wait for a decent joke (even if one doesn't arrive), he is a mixture of Blair and Reagan: in terms of his persona. He charms (those who aren't immune to him because of Brexychosis). He's better than Sturgeon, I'd say, at these personal vids.

    Starmer is going to struggle against this.

    Where Boris falls down is debates, PMQs, and often formal speeches, where his shambolic but charismatic shtick falls apart under sustained questioniing.

    It is possible that the social media age favours Boris' technique over the boring but efficient, earnest Starmers and boring but dependable, authentic Sturgeons. We shall see.

  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Charles said:

    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll never really understand the Green figure. Other parties are pretty darn green thesedays, and with 7% they cannot all be radical Corbynistas.
    Isn't the SNP figure also "wrong" in the sense that it would mean they were getting 100% of the vote in Scotland? Possibly, but not based on the Scottish polls at the moment
    Not nec; Scotland is 8-9% of the population (not sure about voting population).

    PS It usually bumps up and down between 4 and 5% of the UK poll which isn't grossly out, esp given the raltively elderly Scottosh population.
    Fair enough. For some reason I thought Scotland was about 5% of the population
    Based on the most recent mid-year population estimates, Scotland constitutes approximately 8.2% of the UK population. One would assume that it would have a similar proportion of the electorate, given that the demographic profiles of the home nations won't be radically different from one another.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    UK R

    From cases

    image
    image

    From hospitalisations

    image

    Not really seeing a vaccine effect in the R rate yet. Given we have about 12m vaccinated that is a little disappointing, even if a fair chunk of those vaccines are not fully operative yet.
    We are absolutely seeing a vaccine effect in the R.
    It seems to have been sitting around 0.8 for about 3 weeks. Of course, given the new variants, it might have been going up but for the vaccines but I would like to see it start to fall a bit. If vaccinated people are generally not transmitters this should happen as the proportion of the population vaccinated increases.
    That's not how R works. We should already have seen it start to rise by now this far into a lockdown.
    You are going to have to explain that Max (if you can be arsed). My understanding was that the whole point of a lockdown was to reduce the R number.
    I posted an explanation previously, but busy doing some last minute packing at the moment so will have to find it later.
    Packing? You are actually going somewhere? How exciting. I had 4 days in Edinburgh this week for various court hearings (all remote). It wasn't nearly as exciting as it should have been. Edinburgh is closed and its heart is no longer beating.
    Moving day tomorrow, saying goodbye to our flat and moving into a house with a garden!
    My sympathies. I hope you have more success in getting someone (anyone) to look after it other than yourself than I have had over the last 30 years. At least at present it is safely buried under a foot of snow.

    We went for a walk tonight in the late afternoon. The reservoir near our house was completely frozen over and the countryside would have embarrassed any picture card for being just too much. Absolutely stunning. I am so glad to have had a proper winter again.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    Is this happening in any other part of the UK?

    https://twitter.com/AnnieWellsMSP/status/1360216398128181253?s=20

    Downing Street Briefings as well?
    Not quite the same kettle of fish.
  • Buxton Advertiser - Whaley Bridge election battle looms between Ruth George and Edwina Currie
    Former Conservative MP Edwina Currie is taking on Ruth George for the Whaley Bridge seat in May’s county council elections.

    https://www.buxtonadvertiser.co.uk/news/politics/council/whaley-bridge-election-battle-looms-between-ruth-george-and-edwina-currie-3131467

    "Mrs Currie, who was a junior Health Minister and South Derbyshire MP until 1997, told how she was roused back into politics while watching Joe Biden take on Donald Trump in December.

    Describing Mr Biden as a “true hero” she said: “Watching him defeat Trump and do it enormously I thought I should be doing something more than just watching TV.”
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The obvious answer here is no, it wont change the fact they were executed and no on living was responsible
    So, not a believer in vampires then. Or do the undead not count as "living"? These are indeed pressing issues and if we are lucky it might leave the Scottish Parliament insufficient time to debate the latest version of the Hate Speech bill which remains an abomination.
    Why would I believe in vampires or other undead, apart from the louse of hords
    Well if we are being required to believe in witches, why not?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
    Is it kitsch to suggest the stone circle be re-erected? It could be a tourist attraction par excellence. Stone Henge was mostly put up by the Victorians after all.
    I have often thought that erecting a replica stonehenge, close to the Stonhenge visitor centre but out of sight of the actual stone circle (which is a kilometre away) would be a wise move.

    Most visitors would probably flock round the replica and won't be arsed to walk to the real circle, thus protecting the real Stonehenge.
    Possible, I suppose, but Stonehenge is just the most visible part of a huge Neolithic landscape. Any building, particularly any digging, is going to be going through World Heritage standard archeology. It is why the tunnel is so controversial.
    Yes. I think the ancients (by which I mean road planners in the 20th century) probably haven't helped things here - lots of people remember how close the road used to be to the stones, so a tunnel seems like a good idea, but there's clearly neolithic stuff all over Wiltshire.
    This is a rather good book on the topic

    http://www.silentearth.org/sir-richard-colt-hoare-history-ancient-wiltshire-1812-volume-1/
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939
    tlg86 said:

    OT. Seeing one of the rare downsides of living in the sticks today. 3 power cuts - only of a few minutes duration each time but of course everything has to be restarted afterwards. These are fairly common these days and getting more common each year. No idea of the cause but it is very frustrating, particularly when Western Power who run the power system in our area don't publish power outages of less than 3 minutes duration.

    We (in south-east suburbia) have had a few of these. They often happen at night and have the nasty effect of stopping my overnight recordings of cricket in Australia (first world problem, I know).
    No totally a first world problem. Unless you think Australia is a first world country.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939

    Is this happening in any other part of the UK?

    https://twitter.com/AnnieWellsMSP/status/1360216398128181253?s=20

    It must be upsetting for you, Carlotta, to be given a daily reminder of how incompetent your chosen party’s government is, compared to the SNP Scottish Government.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    Pulpstar said:

    Hospitals a major vector in the first wave.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9254495/Stopping-Covid-spreading-hospitals-substantial-reduction-wave-deaths.html

    Also there's a huge jump in antibodies detected with 75 - 79 yr olds -> 80+ year olds (8.4% -> 25.7%), indicates to my mind that longer hospital stays and care homes have been major vectors in the pandemic.

    And the second/third. About 20% of hospitalised patients with it came in with something else, or so it seems.
  • Is this happening in any other part of the UK?

    https://twitter.com/AnnieWellsMSP/status/1360216398128181253?s=20

    It must be upsetting for you, Carlotta, to be given a daily reminder of how incompetent your chosen party’s government is, compared to the SNP Scottish Government.
    On which metric are you measuring competence?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893
    The most pleasing aspect of today's Covid numbers is the fall in numbers of those in hospital which I think is down by about 50% from the peak.

    I know some will say this is all down to vaccination and with 13 million vaccinated that's not unreasonable but we got case numbers and the R number down last spring without vaccinating anyone so I'm inclined to the view the short term success is due to the lockdown restrictions but the medium to long term success will be to re-open the economy and "normal" life without a new surge in infections as the vaccinated can move around without catching the virus and also (hopefully) without infecting anyone else.

    Concerns? Well, yes, I live in the part of the world with the lowest take up of the virus among those eligible with 73% getting vaccinated and there remain clear issues among some groups. Unfortunately, some are arguing for enforced vaccination but I'm far from convinced.

    There are some cultural issues and communication within some communities on all aspects of the virus hasn't been wholly successful. I'd like to think those who for whatever reason haven't taken the opportunity to get vaccinated will be given every opportunity to receive the vaccine and any questions or concerns will be properly addressed.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    Is this happening in any other part of the UK?

    https://twitter.com/AnnieWellsMSP/status/1360216398128181253?s=20

    It must be upsetting for you, Carlotta, to be given a daily reminder of how incompetent your chosen party’s government is, compared to the SNP Scottish Government.
    Competence in shamelessly attaching oneself barnacle-like to anything resembling a TV camera is an enviable skill for politicians certainly, but I'm not sure why it's one you think everyone should emulate.
  • Which is pretty much just what they've done. AND smartest thing they COULD do. Certainly beats defending the indefensible.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Leon said:

    Going gangbusters apparently.....

    https://youtu.be/6U8--wNL9aQ

    I know everyone on here hates Boris, but.... that is almost-genius communication. He does this stuff very well. It's his metier. Getting over a message, hair all over the place, a sense of slight amusement, you happily wait for a decent joke (even if one doesn't arrive), he is a mixture of Blair and Reagan: in terms of his persona. He charms (those who aren't immune to him because of Brexychosis). He's better than Sturgeon, I'd say, at these personal vids.

    Starmer is going to struggle against this.

    Where Boris falls down is debates, PMQs, and often formal speeches, where his shambolic but charismatic shtick falls apart under sustained questioniing.

    It is possible that the social media age favours Boris' technique over the boring but efficient, earnest Starmers and boring but dependable, authentic Sturgeons. We shall see.

    My wife absolutely loves him. She has no interest in politics at all, but he makes her smile. She is also protective over him if anyone moans about him on TV. She will always vote for him..
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    You'll be sorry when all the Motorway services on the M40 have closed, and nature calls.
    Only if I am on the M40 at the time. Which seems a somewhat unlikely scenario.
    After Nippy engineers a reverse takeover of England, Scottish Advocates will be in great demand in Oxford. You'll be sorry then!
    Damn.
    It’s ok DavidL. When she’s taken over, she can abolish Oxford and move the clever stuff to Durham. Oxford can keep PPE and classics so they think they are still important.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    Leon said:

    Going gangbusters apparently.....

    https://youtu.be/6U8--wNL9aQ

    I know everyone on here hates Boris, but.... that is almost-genius communication. He does this stuff very well. It's his metier. Getting over a message, hair all over the place, a sense of slight amusement, you happily wait for a decent joke (even if one doesn't arrive), he is a mixture of Blair and Reagan: in terms of his persona. He charms (those who aren't immune to him because of Brexychosis). He's better than Sturgeon, I'd say, at these personal vids.

    Starmer is going to struggle against this.

    Where Boris falls down is debates, PMQs, and often formal speeches, where his shambolic but charismatic shtick falls apart under sustained questioniing.

    It is possible that the social media age favours Boris' technique over the boring but efficient, earnest Starmers and boring but dependable, authentic Sturgeons. We shall see.

    Going so far up his arse?

    Just a sales trip though, I suppose...
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The obvious answer here is no, it wont change the fact they were executed and no on living was responsible
    So, not a believer in vampires then. Or do the undead not count as "living"? These are indeed pressing issues and if we are lucky it might leave the Scottish Parliament insufficient time to debate the latest version of the Hate Speech bill which remains an abomination.
    Why would I believe in vampires or other undead, apart from the louse of hords
    Well if we are being required to believe in witches, why not?
    Witches were sort of a different kettle of fish, more free thinkers that challenged the church ideology than creatures of myth
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939
    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The obvious answer here is no, it wont change the fact they were executed and no on living was responsible
    So, not a believer in vampires then. Or do the undead not count as "living"? These are indeed pressing issues and if we are lucky it might leave the Scottish Parliament insufficient time to debate the latest version of the Hate Speech bill which remains an abomination.
    There was a member of the undead on QT last night. The man that did to the Scottish tories what Jim Murphy did to Scottish Labour.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    edited February 2021

    Leon said:

    Going gangbusters apparently.....

    https://youtu.be/6U8--wNL9aQ

    I know everyone on here hates Boris, but.... that is almost-genius communication. He does this stuff very well. It's his metier. Getting over a message, hair all over the place, a sense of slight amusement, you happily wait for a decent joke (even if one doesn't arrive), he is a mixture of Blair and Reagan: in terms of his persona. He charms (those who aren't immune to him because of Brexychosis). He's better than Sturgeon, I'd say, at these personal vids.

    Starmer is going to struggle against this.

    Where Boris falls down is debates, PMQs, and often formal speeches, where his shambolic but charismatic shtick falls apart under sustained questioniing.

    It is possible that the social media age favours Boris' technique over the boring but efficient, earnest Starmers and boring but dependable, authentic Sturgeons. We shall see.

    My wife absolutely loves him. She has no interest in politics at all, but he makes her smile. She is also protective over him if anyone moans about him on TV. She will always vote for him..
    My wife think's he can do no wrong, though she is a Tory anyway. I often wonder whether if I did half of what he did in his past, I would be forgiven....)

    :)
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939

    Is this happening in any other part of the UK?

    https://twitter.com/AnnieWellsMSP/status/1360216398128181253?s=20

    It must be upsetting for you, Carlotta, to be given a daily reminder of how incompetent your chosen party’s government is, compared to the SNP Scottish Government.
    On which metric are you measuring competence?
    Cases per 100,000? Deaths per 100,000?
  • Charles said:

    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll never really understand the Green figure. Other parties are pretty darn green thesedays, and with 7% they cannot all be radical Corbynistas.
    Isn't the SNP figure also "wrong" in the sense that it would mean they were getting 100% of the vote in Scotland? Possibly, but not based on the Scottish polls at the moment
    Not nec; Scotland is 8-9% of the population (not sure about voting population).

    PS It usually bumps up and down between 4 and 5% of the UK poll which isn't grossly out, esp given the raltively elderly Scottosh population.
    Fair enough. For some reason I thought Scotland was about 5% of the population
    Based on the most recent mid-year population estimates, Scotland constitutes approximately 8.2% of the UK population. One would assume that it would have a similar proportion of the electorate, given that the demographic profiles of the home nations won't be radically different from one another.
    What Scotland certainly doesn't have is a similar proportion of public spending to the rest of the UK, in proportion to population. The most recent figures show public spending on services identifiable to Scotland at 17.3% higher than the UK per capita average, and over 20% above the average for England alone.

    Table A1b, Page 6.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/847025/CRA_2019_-_main_text.pdf
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204

    Following on from yesterday's polling on Brits wanting to share excess vaccines (and the UK's massive COVAX funding):

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/02/13/there-will-be-enough-vaccines-for-all-if-rich-countries-share


    Uganda hot on the ordering !
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited February 2021
    Pagan2 said:

    OllyT said:

    Pagan2 said:

    OllyT said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Senators supposed to be jurors in cases of impeachment ?

    https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1360258176478814210

    Not sure why they care how unprepared the team was, everyone can see the votes are there since before the trial even started. And it's not like they worry about the liberal media thinking that makes them look craven.
    Trump is using it to say the election was stolen.
    R Senators want him to say he didnt mean to incite the crowds. Trump wont do that for them.
    As always it is Trump demonstrating he has power, and the Senators wishing he didn't but unable or unwilling to stop him acting as he pleases.
    As political acts of abject, unprincipled cowardice go, the GOP senators refusal to convict Donald Trump has to be right up there.
    Any GOP Senator who votes to convict Trump will face a primary challenge they would probably lose, with a few exceptions like Romney in Utah where he has a big personal vote.

    The same goes for the 10 GOP Representatives who voted to impeach Trump.

    Turkeys do not vote for Christmas
    But why should the electorate vote for anyone who will not defend the Constitution when they have the chance? This GOP, out of fear of being primaried, have foregone any justification for being elected.

    It is so cowardly and unprincipled - they are not even prepared to fight for their own beliefs, let alone the Constitution. The GOP as constituted is not fit for purpose.
    There are plenty of Republican Senators who also think the Impeachment trial is a sham and that, if you are looking to convict Trump on incitement, then there should be plenty of Democrats facing the same as well. It's not all down to being craven and fearful.
    And which of those Democrats lost the presidential election, then activated the long prepared smear that it was stolen, then fed this lie relentlessly to their softhead base whilst launching a series of frivolous "only for show" court actions, then called a massive demo against the confirmation of his legal successor - the election winner - on confirmation day, then whipped that crowd up into a frenzy of righteous indignation and told them to march on the capitol and "fight" for the future their country? Precisely none. This is false equivalence of a degree amounting to blatant propaganda for Donald Trump. This now pointed out, I sincerely hope you will desist with it.
    The longer that Trump apologists like Mr Ed continue to pretend to believe that Trump did nothing wrong, the better it will get for the Democrats. The GOP seems to have learned nothing from their 2 Senate losses in Georgia
    Does calling people trump apologists help? I am in no doubt a corbyn government government would have been worse by far than trumps as corbyn would actually have tried to do stuff. Should I then through corbyn apologists at his many supporters here and how would that help debate?
    It's an accurate description for people who seek to excuse Trump's actions rather than actually come out in support of them.
    You supported corbyns actions his were far worse if he had held the levers of power. Until trump tried to rig the election most things he did were no where near as bad.
    What on earth makes you think I supported Cortbyn's actions?

    Yes, I was forgetting how fantastic Trump's response to the Covid pandemic was prior to his attempted coup.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Can one of SKS's supporters explain WTF his strategy is for the LE's2021

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 39% (-1)
    LAB: 33% (-5)
    LDEM: 9% (+2)
    GRN: 7% (+2)

    via
    @Survation
    , 05 - 06 Feb
    Chgs. w/ 13 Jan
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    DavidL said:

    Yay for us!

    Take some Picts, Celts and Silures
    And let them settle,
    Then overrun them with Roman conquerors.
    Remove the Romans after approximately 400 years
    Add lots of Norman French to some
    Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Vikings, then stir vigorously.

    Mix some hot Chileans, cool Jamaicans, Dominicans,
    Trinidadians and Bajans with some Ethiopians, Chinese,
    Vietnamese and Sudanese.

    Then take a blend of Somalians, Sri Lankans, Nigerians
    And Pakistanis,
    Combine with some Guyanese
    And turn up the heat.

    Sprinkle some fresh Indians, Malaysians, Bosnians,
    Iraqis and Bangladeshis together with some
    Afghans, Spanish, Turkish, Kurdish, Japanese
    And Palestinians
    Then add to the melting pot.
    Leave the ingredients to simmer.

    As they mix and blend allow their languages to flourish
    Binding them together with English.

    Allow time to be cool.

    Add some unity, understanding, and respect for the future,
    Serve with justice
    And enjoy.

    Note: All the ingredients are equally important. Treating one ingredient better than another will leave a bitter unpleasant taste.

    Warning: An unequal spread of justice will damage the people and cause pain. Give justice and equality to all.
    Benjamin Zephaniah
    Will no-one stand up for the Beaker People?
    Professor Bunsen?
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The obvious answer here is no, it wont change the fact they were executed and no on living was responsible
    So, not a believer in vampires then. Or do the undead not count as "living"? These are indeed pressing issues and if we are lucky it might leave the Scottish Parliament insufficient time to debate the latest version of the Hate Speech bill which remains an abomination.
    Why would I believe in vampires or other undead, apart from the louse of hords
    Well if we are being required to believe in witches, why not?
    Witches were sort of a different kettle of fish, more free thinkers that challenged the church ideology than creatures of myth
    Nonsense.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204

    I saw an article on the BBC website saying that Coca Cola are looking to develop a bottle that is plastic-free.

    I thought they already did. A glass bottle.

    Coke does actually taste better from glass bottles*

    *The fact I'm in the glass industry has nothing to do with this endorsement.
  • Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The obvious answer here is no, it wont change the fact they were executed and no on living was responsible
    So, not a believer in vampires then. Or do the undead not count as "living"? These are indeed pressing issues and if we are lucky it might leave the Scottish Parliament insufficient time to debate the latest version of the Hate Speech bill which remains an abomination.
    Why would I believe in vampires or other undead, apart from the louse of hords
    Well if we are being required to believe in witches, why not?
    Witches were sort of a different kettle of fish, more free thinkers that challenged the church ideology than creatures of myth
    Best job in goverment = Witchfinder General

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1rYJGxPKDI

  • Can one of SKS's supporters explain WTF his strategy is for the LE's2021

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 39% (-1)
    LAB: 33% (-5)
    LDEM: 9% (+2)
    GRN: 7% (+2)

    via
    @Survation
    , 05 - 06 Feb
    Chgs. w/ 13 Jan

    A Top 2 finish?

    Just practicing for 2024! :lol:
  • Pubs for Easter.

    Sounds excellent. Let's hope this isn't another Johnson 'save xmas' mess.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited February 2021

    Leon said:

    Going gangbusters apparently.....

    https://youtu.be/6U8--wNL9aQ

    I know everyone on here hates Boris, but.... that is almost-genius communication. He does this stuff very well. It's his metier. Getting over a message, hair all over the place, a sense of slight amusement, you happily wait for a decent joke (even if one doesn't arrive), he is a mixture of Blair and Reagan: in terms of his persona. He charms (those who aren't immune to him because of Brexychosis). He's better than Sturgeon, I'd say, at these personal vids.

    Starmer is going to struggle against this.

    Where Boris falls down is debates, PMQs, and often formal speeches, where his shambolic but charismatic shtick falls apart under sustained questioniing.

    It is possible that the social media age favours Boris' technique over the boring but efficient, earnest Starmers and boring but dependable, authentic Sturgeons. We shall see.

    My wife absolutely loves him. She has no interest in politics at all, but he makes her smile. She is also protective over him if anyone moans about him on TV. She will always vote for him..
    My Mum loves him too. As in, won't hear a word against him and ignores all dissenting voices (including mine, I think Boris has blundered badly over Covid)

    He has a solid, super-loyal constituency that is immune to any counter-evidence.

    This is a very valuable thing for a politician. Corbyn had it (tho it was not enough). It explains, perhaps, why Boris has won elections that he should have lost. It also explains why Cameron was so dismayed when Boris went Leave in the Referendum, and Cameron thereafter feared it was lost.

    Cameron sensed the danger.

    Labour have to beat this, I am not sure they can, with Starmer. We shall see.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710

    Can one of SKS's supporters explain WTF his strategy is for the LE's2021

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 39% (-1)
    LAB: 33% (-5)
    LDEM: 9% (+2)
    GRN: 7% (+2)

    via
    @Survation
    , 05 - 06 Feb
    Chgs. w/ 13 Jan

    Fun With Flags!


  • Charles said:

    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll never really understand the Green figure. Other parties are pretty darn green thesedays, and with 7% they cannot all be radical Corbynistas.
    Isn't the SNP figure also "wrong" in the sense that it would mean they were getting 100% of the vote in Scotland? Possibly, but not based on the Scottish polls at the moment
    Not nec; Scotland is 8-9% of the population (not sure about voting population).

    PS It usually bumps up and down between 4 and 5% of the UK poll which isn't grossly out, esp given the raltively elderly Scottosh population.
    Fair enough. For some reason I thought Scotland was about 5% of the population
    Based on the most recent mid-year population estimates, Scotland constitutes approximately 8.2% of the UK population. One would assume that it would have a similar proportion of the electorate, given that the demographic profiles of the home nations won't be radically different from one another.
    What Scotland certainly doesn't have is a similar proportion of public spending to the rest of the UK, in proportion to population. The most recent figures show public spending on services identifiable to Scotland at 17.3% higher than the UK per capita average, and over 20% above the average for England alone.

    Table A1b, Page 6.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/847025/CRA_2019_-_main_text.pdf
    Not too surprising, is it, given a) Scotland's much lower population density and far-flung geography, as well as b) much smaller population thus fewer opportunities to benefit from economies of scale?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    Leon said:

    Going gangbusters apparently.....

    https://youtu.be/6U8--wNL9aQ

    I know everyone on here hates Boris, but.... that is almost-genius communication. He does this stuff very well. It's his metier. Getting over a message, hair all over the place, a sense of slight amusement, you happily wait for a decent joke (even if one doesn't arrive), he is a mixture of Blair and Reagan: in terms of his persona. He charms (those who aren't immune to him because of Brexychosis). He's better than Sturgeon, I'd say, at these personal vids.

    Starmer is going to struggle against this.

    Where Boris falls down is debates, PMQs, and often formal speeches, where his shambolic but charismatic shtick falls apart under sustained questioniing.

    It is possible that the social media age favours Boris' technique over the boring but efficient, earnest Starmers and boring but dependable, authentic Sturgeons. We shall see.

    I agree. I think a lesson from the last century or so, since mass communication started, is that the more charismatic candidate usually wins.

    Nobody has ever accused Starmer of being charismatic, that I recall, but people have often (though not always) said it about Boris. And it probably explains a large part of the difference between 2017 and 2019.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    I saw an article on the BBC website saying that Coca Cola are looking to develop a bottle that is plastic-free.

    I thought they already did. A glass bottle.

    Used to be an absolute treat when I were a nipper. Pizza Express with Cola in GLASS BOTTLES!!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    gealbhan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The obvious answer here is no, it wont change the fact they were executed and no on living was responsible
    So, not a believer in vampires then. Or do the undead not count as "living"? These are indeed pressing issues and if we are lucky it might leave the Scottish Parliament insufficient time to debate the latest version of the Hate Speech bill which remains an abomination.
    Why would I believe in vampires or other undead, apart from the louse of hords
    Well if we are being required to believe in witches, why not?
    Witches were sort of a different kettle of fish, more free thinkers that challenged the church ideology than creatures of myth
    Nonsense.
    Nonsense yourself, religous rituals are no different to christians turning wine in to blood, bread into flesh and practising ritual cannabalism.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893

    Can one of SKS's supporters explain WTF his strategy is for the LE's2021

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 39% (-1)
    LAB: 33% (-5)
    LDEM: 9% (+2)
    GRN: 7% (+2)

    via
    @Survation
    , 05 - 06 Feb
    Chgs. w/ 13 Jan

    I'm no supporter of Starmer's but I wouldn't panic about one poll which might well be an outlier. if we see the same in several polls then it'll be time to ask questions.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The obvious answer here is no, it wont change the fact they were executed and no on living was responsible
    So, not a believer in vampires then. Or do the undead not count as "living"? These are indeed pressing issues and if we are lucky it might leave the Scottish Parliament insufficient time to debate the latest version of the Hate Speech bill which remains an abomination.
    Why would I believe in vampires or other undead, apart from the louse of hords
    Well if we are being required to believe in witches, why not?
    Witches were sort of a different kettle of fish, more free thinkers that challenged the church ideology than creatures of myth
    Best job in goverment = Witchfinder General

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1rYJGxPKDI

    Most witches however were not satanists, merely people who didn't follow the churches teachings well enough, annoyed their neighbours. Satanism is a christian sect not a pagan
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Pagan2 said:

    The obvious answer here is no, it wont change the fact they were executed and no on living was responsible
    Nor does society still have a sizable remnant who think burning and killing people for being witches is ok, so there's no lesson to be learned.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710

    Charles said:

    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll never really understand the Green figure. Other parties are pretty darn green thesedays, and with 7% they cannot all be radical Corbynistas.
    Isn't the SNP figure also "wrong" in the sense that it would mean they were getting 100% of the vote in Scotland? Possibly, but not based on the Scottish polls at the moment
    Not nec; Scotland is 8-9% of the population (not sure about voting population).

    PS It usually bumps up and down between 4 and 5% of the UK poll which isn't grossly out, esp given the raltively elderly Scottosh population.
    Fair enough. For some reason I thought Scotland was about 5% of the population
    Based on the most recent mid-year population estimates, Scotland constitutes approximately 8.2% of the UK population. One would assume that it would have a similar proportion of the electorate, given that the demographic profiles of the home nations won't be radically different from one another.
    What Scotland certainly doesn't have is a similar proportion of public spending to the rest of the UK, in proportion to population. The most recent figures show public spending on services identifiable to Scotland at 17.3% higher than the UK per capita average, and over 20% above the average for England alone.

    Table A1b, Page 6.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/847025/CRA_2019_-_main_text.pdf
    Not too surprising, is it, given a) Scotland's much lower population density and far-flung geography, as well as b) much smaller population thus fewer opportunities to benefit from economies of scale?
    I don't buy that argument. The Scottish central belt is as urbanised as many other parts of Britain, and other remote parts of the Isles, such as Cumbria or North Devon, West Wales don't get that much more spending.

    In health spending terms the East Midlands is the lowest per capita in England, and we have about the same population as Scotland.

    There are reasons to spend more on Scotland, including some deeply rooted health and social issues, but population density is not one.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Going gangbusters apparently.....

    https://youtu.be/6U8--wNL9aQ

    I know everyone on here hates Boris, but.... that is almost-genius communication. He does this stuff very well. It's his metier. Getting over a message, hair all over the place, a sense of slight amusement, you happily wait for a decent joke (even if one doesn't arrive), he is a mixture of Blair and Reagan: in terms of his persona. He charms (those who aren't immune to him because of Brexychosis). He's better than Sturgeon, I'd say, at these personal vids.

    Starmer is going to struggle against this.

    Where Boris falls down is debates, PMQs, and often formal speeches, where his shambolic but charismatic shtick falls apart under sustained questioniing.

    It is possible that the social media age favours Boris' technique over the boring but efficient, earnest Starmers and boring but dependable, authentic Sturgeons. We shall see.

    My wife absolutely loves him. She has no interest in politics at all, but he makes her smile. She is also protective over him if anyone moans about him on TV. She will always vote for him..
    My Mum loves him too. As in, won't hear a word against him and ignores all dissenting voices (including mine, I think Boris has blundered badly over Covid)

    He has a solid, super-loyal constituency that is immune to any counter-evidence.

    This is a very valuable thing for a politician. Corbyn had it (tho it was not enough). It explains, perhaps, why Boris has won elections that he should have lost. It also explains why Cameron was so dismayed when Boris went Leave in the Referendum, and Cameron thereafter feared it was lost.

    Cameron sensed the danger.

    Labour have to beat this, I am not sure they can, with Starmer. We shall see.
    Used to see quite a lot of Boris. I'd be driving to my plush Islington office in my comfy executive car while he'd be wobbling down to his Doughty Street garret on a beaten-up old Raleigh. Twenty years later, he is master of all he surveys and I am ... err ... not.

    To every thing there is a season etc etc.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The obvious answer here is no, it wont change the fact they were executed and no on living was responsible
    Nor does society still have a sizable remnant who think burning and killing people for being witches is ok, so there's no lesson to be learned.
    Nods I agree so the apology is not needed
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The obvious answer here is no, it wont change the fact they were executed and no on living was responsible
    So, not a believer in vampires then. Or do the undead not count as "living"? These are indeed pressing issues and if we are lucky it might leave the Scottish Parliament insufficient time to debate the latest version of the Hate Speech bill which remains an abomination.
    Why would I believe in vampires or other undead, apart from the louse of hords
    Well if we are being required to believe in witches, why not?
    Witches were sort of a different kettle of fish, more free thinkers that challenged the church ideology than creatures of myth
    Best job in goverment = Witchfinder General

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1rYJGxPKDI

    Most witches however were not satanists, merely people who didn't follow the churches teachings well enough, annoyed their neighbours. Satanism is a christian sect not a pagan
    More often, women who didn't participate in society in a way approved of by a brutal patriarchy. Witch hunts were organised misogyny, with religion as the excuse.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    Charles said:

    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll never really understand the Green figure. Other parties are pretty darn green thesedays, and with 7% they cannot all be radical Corbynistas.
    Isn't the SNP figure also "wrong" in the sense that it would mean they were getting 100% of the vote in Scotland? Possibly, but not based on the Scottish polls at the moment
    Not nec; Scotland is 8-9% of the population (not sure about voting population).

    PS It usually bumps up and down between 4 and 5% of the UK poll which isn't grossly out, esp given the raltively elderly Scottosh population.
    Fair enough. For some reason I thought Scotland was about 5% of the population
    Based on the most recent mid-year population estimates, Scotland constitutes approximately 8.2% of the UK population. One would assume that it would have a similar proportion of the electorate, given that the demographic profiles of the home nations won't be radically different from one another.
    What Scotland certainly doesn't have is a similar proportion of public spending to the rest of the UK, in proportion to population. The most recent figures show public spending on services identifiable to Scotland at 17.3% higher than the UK per capita average, and over 20% above the average for England alone.

    Table A1b, Page 6.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/847025/CRA_2019_-_main_text.pdf
    Not too surprising, is it, given a) Scotland's much lower population density and far-flung geography, as well as b) much smaller population thus fewer opportunities to benefit from economies of scale?
    No, it isn't surprising - and the conversation, from some in England as 'Scotland scrounging', from some in Scotland as 'London lying', is all sorts of toxic. Those fighting for the future of the Union will need to offer some stiff rebukes to many down South as well as countering the arguments of many up North.
This discussion has been closed.