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Polling in 15 of the world’s leading countries finds Brits at the top of the league on wanting to be

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  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited February 2021
    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I see that nice Mr Drakeford is smashing it out of the park.

    I am sure we would all like to congratulate him on his marvelous performance


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-56025773

    A bit like Boris Johnson, every single other thing he’s done has been an unmitigated catastrophe, but he’s doing quite well on vaccines.

    He’s probably helped by the fact that outside the sparsely populated middle (by which I mean the area from Cardigan to Porthmadog to Llanymynech to Brecon) most of Wales is within fairly easy reach of some kind of small hospital that can function as a vaccine centre very easily. And even though there is only one actual hospital in that area (Bronglais in Aber) there are lots of quite beefed up supersurgeries that can do more than the average doctor’s practice in England. But it’s still good news.

    That doesn’t alter the fact that he looks more out of his depth than an ant in the Mindanao Trench - but then, you could say the same for Johnson.
    Johnson, not Drakeford, is getting the plaudits here in Wales for a successful vaccine rollout. Drakeford is taking the flak for closed schools, pubs and shops.
    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.
    So with Wales also least bad in the deaths per Capita. Drakeford gets no credit?
    No. The narrative on local news is we have done considerably worse here in Wales on all metrics than England. The narrative on UK news is that the only metric worth considering is vaccine delivery, and Johnson singlehandedly delivered.

    That might all change by May. Potentially faulty AZN vaccine, economic strife beginning to bite, are two possible negatives for the Conservatives. It is also highly likely that RT will say something outrageous and upset everyone.
    Feel rather sorry for Drakeford. He reminds me of a hapless schoolmaster who was bullied remorselessly by 5R. He was found slumped in a corridor one day after school, sobbing his poor heart out, and was never seen again. If it weren't for the discrepancy in age I would guess he had changed his name and moved to Cardiff.

    5R were a gang of organised criminals in their late teens sent back to school year after year by their overambitious shop-keeping parents in the hope of bagging an O-level through random chance. They are now senior members of Drakeford's electorate.
    That's what he would like you to think.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,879

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    You need to get out more. Johnson is on the verge of sanctification by the over 70 voting public, surely some of that will rub off on RT.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    Good news, but I don't see why the FM should necessarily be the last witness to the committee as has apparently 'always been clear'.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    ...and with Dr Alice Roberts on BBC2 tonight at 21:00...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000s5xm
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    You need to get out more. Johnson is on the verge of sanctification by the over 70 voting public, surely some of that will rub off on RT.
    If I get out more, will I meet many over-70s.

    I thought they were all hiding indoors and posting on pb.com. :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Perhaps you and I are overthinking this. What we really need is for @TSE and @bigjohnowls to become so enamoured of Drakeford that they kidnap him and try to use him to start a coup in England.

    Which would leave the way clear for someone capable to take charge in Wales.

    The only small flaw in the logic is that there appears to be nobody left to take charge who is merely ‘capable’ rather than ‘incapable.’
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Wow its really heavy

    Whats it weigh?

    In Stones!!!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Wow its really heavy

    Whats it weigh?

    In Stones!!!
    I don’t know, but it must have cost them a few pounds.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Hey, we left you the holes.....
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673


    I dunno - you and others of similar mind have been saying that for months, in the teeth of ever-more emphatic polling to the contrary. I know one couple who are keen to mix - everyone else who's expressed an opinion (and I know a lot of younger colleagues, as well as plenty of older ones who've been vaccinated) wants lockdown to continue until Covid has become a marginal threat. A jumbo jet crashing every day is not a marginal threat. When the numbers are under 50, I think sentiment will swing, but not (much) when it's in the low hundreds.

    The key thing here is the hospitalisations figure. Although it seems slightly counter-intuitive at first, it's not the oldies who are filling up the wards and the ICUs, it's middle-aged people. The vaccination programme will reduce deaths quite quickly now, but hospitalisations will fall more slowly because the younger people haven't been jabbed yet:

    https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1360131370366959618

    In that report: "We made the following assumptions in our model... Vaccination will be complete in all groups with 100% take‐up. "

    Why on earth would anyone assume 100% take-up?

    Surely assuming a take-up figure between 70-90% would inspire more confidence in the results?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Six and a half year on, the SNP still has no answer to the question "and the currency?"
  • Good news, but I don't see why the FM should necessarily be the last witness to the committee as has apparently 'always been clear'.
    Beware the ides of March...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    You need to get out more. Johnson is on the verge of sanctification by the over 70 voting public, surely some of that will rub off on RT.
    If I get out more, will I meet many over-70s.

    I thought they were all hiding indoors and posting on pb.com. :)
    Lockdown is over in Port Talbot!

    Although I ventured up to Knighton for work on Tuesday and the tumbleweed was blowing down Ludlow Road.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    I see that nice Mr Drakeford is smashing it out of the park.

    I am sure we would all like to congratulate him on his marvelous performance


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-56025773

    To be serious for a moment, it is encouraging that all four UK constituent countries are now converging together on their vaccine rollouts. One out of kilter with the rest would not be the trauma we currently need.
    Agreed. I'm also impressed with how well the Scottish Government are doing given the weather conditions, or has that been exaggerated by the South British media?
    Weather? The way they whine when a flak of snow falls on Broadcasting House roof?

    No, the weather has been bad in Scotland - there has been real disruption. My beer delivery was delayed 3 days running.
    Does that mean you get beer every day, or that it took three days for the beer to be delivered? Because if it is the former I now have a picture of a beerman leaving a couple of pints outside your door in the early-morning mist...
    Delivering beer in this weather would certainly be a Stella performance.
    A job for stout yeomen.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673
    Pulpstar said:

    Send them straight back, or if they're British citzens straight to the nearest prison Britannia Hotel.
    Prison would be kinder.
  • ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    I see that nice Mr Drakeford is smashing it out of the park.

    I am sure we would all like to congratulate him on his marvelous performance


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-56025773

    To be serious for a moment, it is encouraging that all four UK constituent countries are now converging together on their vaccine rollouts. One out of kilter with the rest would not be the trauma we currently need.
    Agreed. I'm also impressed with how well the Scottish Government are doing given the weather conditions, or has that been exaggerated by the South British media?
    Weather? The way they whine when a flak of snow falls on Broadcasting House roof?

    No, the weather has been bad in Scotland - there has been real disruption. My beer delivery was delayed 3 days running.
    Does that mean you get beer every day, or that it took three days for the beer to be delivered? Because if it is the former I now have a picture of a beerman leaving a couple of pints outside your door in the early-morning mist...
    Delivering beer in this weather would certainly be a Stella performance.
    A job for stout yeomen.
    William Hague says 'hi'
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    Pulpstar said:

    Send them straight back, or if they're British citzens straight to the nearest prison Britannia Hotel.
    Or just admit that the whole policy is pointless, indefensible and unworkable and scrap it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    felix said:



    Clearly you have to be batshit crazy to get into Oxford these days...

    'Twas ever thus. (Answering for a friend.)
    I spent one of my PPE interviews talking about a bridge.

    The second my future economics tutors was on his hands and knees looking for his biro (it was in his top pocket)... he went on to serve on the Bank of England monetary policy committee...
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Perhaps you and I are overthinking this. What we really need is for @TSE and @bigjohnowls to become so enamoured of Drakeford that they kidnap him and try to use him to start a coup in England.

    Which would leave the way clear for someone capable to take charge in Wales.

    The only small flaw in the logic is that there appears to be nobody left to take charge who is merely ‘capable’ rather than ‘incapable.’
    I expect, when it comes to the Senedd elections, I will go through the following steps.

    1. I will heroically resolve to vote for a competent individual, irrespective of party. I will argue to myself that it is important to add experience in business or economics or education or health to the Senedd. This should be very easy enough to do, given the pitiful standards of the present rabble in the Senedd.

    2. I will open a bottle of Penderyn and pour a goodish tumblerful, adding ice.

    3. I will peruse the election literature, and rummage on the web to find information on the possible candidates.

    4. I will become very depressed.

    5. I will finish the entire bottle of Penderyn.

    6. I will abstain.

    Last election, I reluctantly voted for someone I have come to despise (Lord Cognac), and he promptly changed party after I had voted for him.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673
    edited February 2021

    Six and a half year on, the SNP still has no answer to the question "and the currency?"
    I appreciate I am probably being dense but isn't the Euro the obvious/only answer, given the intent to join the EU?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    Fishing said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Send them straight back, or if they're British citzens straight to the nearest prison Britannia Hotel.
    Or just admit that the whole policy is pointless, indefensible and unworkable and scrap it.
    ?!?! Nope. This is the (quite reasonable) price people must pay for flying here. Faking test results upends the whole system and should be dealt with harshly. It's this or no travel at all. Anyone who needs to travel will comply with these regulations.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    Good news, but I don't see why the FM should necessarily be the last witness to the committee as has apparently 'always been clear'.
    Beware the ides of March...
    Hopefully the committee report will give the SG a richly deserved iding.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited February 2021
    New Italian government announced tonight

    To be sworn in tomorrow

    4 ministers for 5 Stars (Foreign affairs, agricolture, relationship with parliament, youth policies)
    3 ministers for Lega (Economic development, tourism, disabilities)
    3 ministers for PD (work, culture, defense)
    3 ministers for Forza Italia (Public administration, regional affairs, South)
    1 minister for Free and Equal (Health)
    1 minister for Italia Viva (Equal opportunities)

    7 ministers from Conte's government hold their positions + 2 reshuffled to new portofolios
  • ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    You need to get out more. Johnson is on the verge of sanctification by the over 70 voting public, surely some of that will rub off on RT.
    If I get out more, will I meet many over-70s.

    I thought they were all hiding indoors and posting on pb.com. :)
    Lockdown is over in Port Talbot!

    Although I ventured up to Knighton for work on Tuesday and the tumbleweed was blowing down Ludlow Road.
    So Knighton is back to normal, too?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Six and a half year on, the SNP still has no answer to the question "and the currency?"
    I appreciate I am probably being dense but isn't the Euro the obvious/only answer, given the intent to join the EU?
    You cant just join the euro though and merely pegging currency to it is problematic
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673
    Charles said:

    felix said:



    Clearly you have to be batshit crazy to get into Oxford these days...

    'Twas ever thus. (Answering for a friend.)
    I spent one of my PPE interviews talking about a bridge.

    The second my future economics tutors was on his hands and knees looking for his biro (it was in his top pocket)... he went on to serve on the Bank of England monetary policy committee...
    Great advert for the elite that believes it has a natural entitlement to run the country.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
    Is it kitsch to suggest the stone circle be re-erected? It could be a tourist attraction par excellence. Stone Henge was mostly put up by the Victorians after all.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Perhaps you and I are overthinking this. What we really need is for @TSE and @bigjohnowls to become so enamoured of Drakeford that they kidnap him and try to use him to start a coup in England.

    Which would leave the way clear for someone capable to take charge in Wales.

    The only small flaw in the logic is that there appears to be nobody left to take charge who is merely ‘capable’ rather than ‘incapable.’
    I expect, when it comes to the Senedd elections, I will go through the following steps.

    1. I will heroically resolve to vote for a competent individual, irrespective of party. I will argue to myself that it is important to add experience in business or economics or education or health to the Senedd. This should be very easy enough to do, given the pitiful standards of the present rabble in the Senedd.

    2. I will open a bottle of Penderyn and pour a goodish tumblerful, adding ice.

    3. I will peruse the election literature, and rummage on the web to find information on the possible candidates.

    4. I will become very depressed.

    5. I will finish the entire bottle of Penderyn.

    6. I will abstain.

    Last election, I reluctantly voted for someone I have come to despise (Lord Cognac), and he promptly changed party after I had voted for him.
    All is not lost. Vote Conservative for RT as FM. On your way back from the polling station buy some popcorn to accompany the Penderyn (you will need a few cases of Penderyn) and enjoy the spectacle over the next four years.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598

    Six and a half year on, the SNP still has no answer to the question "and the currency?"
    I appreciate I am probably being dense but isn't the Euro the obvious/only answer, given the intent to join the EU?
    I suspect that crystallizes issues the SNP don't want addressed. Like, they are swapping the tyranny of London for the tyranny of Brussels. A step too far in keeping their coalition bound together.


  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    You need to get out more. Johnson is on the verge of sanctification by the over 70 voting public, surely some of that will rub off on RT.
    If I get out more, will I meet many over-70s.

    I thought they were all hiding indoors and posting on pb.com. :)
    Lockdown is over in Port Talbot!

    Although I ventured up to Knighton for work on Tuesday and the tumbleweed was blowing down Ludlow Road.
    So Knighton is back to normal, too?
    You are on fire this evening!
  • ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    You need to get out more. Johnson is on the verge of sanctification by the over 70 voting public, surely some of that will rub off on RT.
    If I get out more, will I meet many over-70s.

    I thought they were all hiding indoors and posting on pb.com. :)
    Lockdown is over in Port Talbot!

    Although I ventured up to Knighton for work on Tuesday and the tumbleweed was blowing down Ludlow Road.
    So Knighton is back to normal, too?
    You are on fire this evening!
    Actually I'm quite fond of Knighton. Stayed twice at the Horse & Jockey, once while walking Offa's Dyke and once before embarking on Glyndwr's Way. The latter is a hell of a lot harder - makes Wales feel absolutely vast.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
    Is it kitsch to suggest the stone circle be re-erected? It could be a tourist attraction par excellence. Stone Henge was mostly put up by the Victorians after all.
    No it wasn't, they just lightly rearranged what was there. Theres plenty of pre Victorian paintings to confirm this

    https://artuk.org/discover/stories/stonehenge-in-art

    There's just the one set of stones so you either have to take them back from Wiltshire or quarry duplicates if you want to reinstate the Welsh site.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
    Is it kitsch to suggest the stone circle be re-erected? It could be a tourist attraction par excellence. Stone Henge was mostly put up by the Victorians after all.
    I have often thought that erecting a replica stonehenge, close to the Stonhenge visitor centre but out of sight of the actual stone circle (which is a kilometre away) would be a wise move.

    Most visitors would probably flock round the replica and won't be arsed to walk to the real circle, thus protecting the real Stonehenge.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    You need to get out more. Johnson is on the verge of sanctification by the over 70 voting public, surely some of that will rub off on RT.
    I am now experiencing visions of nonagenarian cult priestesses in blue velvet robes, processing through the streets with icons of the Divine Boris attached to their walking frames.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited February 2021
    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Senators supposed to be jurors in cases of impeachment ?

    https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1360258176478814210

    Not sure why they care how unprepared the team was, everyone can see the votes are there since before the trial even started. And it's not like they worry about the liberal media thinking that makes them look craven.
    Trump is using it to say the election was stolen.
    R Senators want him to say he didnt mean to incite the crowds. Trump wont do that for them.
    As always it is Trump demonstrating he has power, and the Senators wishing he didn't but unable or unwilling to stop him acting as he pleases.
    As political acts of abject, unprincipled cowardice go, the GOP senators refusal to convict Donald Trump has to be right up there.
    Any GOP Senator who votes to convict Trump will face a primary challenge they would probably lose, with a few exceptions like Romney in Utah where he has a big personal vote.

    The same goes for the 10 GOP Representatives who voted to impeach Trump.

    Turkeys do not vote for Christmas
    But why should the electorate vote for anyone who will not defend the Constitution when they have the chance? This GOP, out of fear of being primaried, have foregone any justification for being elected.

    It is so cowardly and unprincipled - they are not even prepared to fight for their own beliefs, let alone the Constitution. The GOP as constituted is not fit for purpose.
    There are plenty of Republican Senators who also think the Impeachment trial is a sham and that, if you are looking to convict Trump on incitement, then there should be plenty of Democrats facing the same as well. It's not all down to being craven and fearful.
    And which of those Democrats lost the presidential election, then activated the long prepared smear that it was stolen, then fed this lie relentlessly to their softhead base whilst launching a series of frivolous "only for show" court actions, then called a massive demo against the confirmation of his legal successor - the election winner - on confirmation day, then whipped that crowd up into a frenzy of righteous indignation and told them to march on the capitol and "fight" for the future their country? Precisely none. This is false equivalence of a degree amounting to blatant propaganda for Donald Trump. This now pointed out, I sincerely hope you will desist with it.
    The longer that Trump apologists like Mr Ed continue to pretend to believe that Trump did nothing wrong, the better it will get for the Democrats. The GOP seems to have learned nothing from their 2 Senate losses in Georgia
  • It's amazing how in the absence of certain individuals the chat seems quite pleasant and interesting, rather than vile and rancid.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    You need to get out more. Johnson is on the verge of sanctification by the over 70 voting public, surely some of that will rub off on RT.
    I am now experiencing visions of nonagenarian cult priestesses in blue velvet robes, processing through the streets with icons of the Divine Boris attached to their walking frames.
    You have described Cowbridge High Street to a tee
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
    Is it kitsch to suggest the stone circle be re-erected? It could be a tourist attraction par excellence. Stone Henge was mostly put up by the Victorians after all.
    No it wasn't, they just lightly rearranged what was there. Theres plenty of pre Victorian paintings to confirm this

    https://artuk.org/discover/stories/stonehenge-in-art

    There's just the one set of stones so you either have to take them back from Wiltshire or quarry duplicates if you want to reinstate the Welsh site.
    Ah, thanks for the clarification. I was envisaging quarrying new stone, definitely.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited February 2021
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    It's amazing how in the absence of certain individuals the chat seems quite pleasant and interesting, rather than vile and rancid.

    Sorry, I'm back 😉
  • OT. Seeing one of the rare downsides of living in the sticks today. 3 power cuts - only of a few minutes duration each time but of course everything has to be restarted afterwards. These are fairly common these days and getting more common each year. No idea of the cause but it is very frustrating, particularly when Western Power who run the power system in our area don't publish power outages of less than 3 minutes duration.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    OllyT said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Senators supposed to be jurors in cases of impeachment ?

    https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1360258176478814210

    Not sure why they care how unprepared the team was, everyone can see the votes are there since before the trial even started. And it's not like they worry about the liberal media thinking that makes them look craven.
    Trump is using it to say the election was stolen.
    R Senators want him to say he didnt mean to incite the crowds. Trump wont do that for them.
    As always it is Trump demonstrating he has power, and the Senators wishing he didn't but unable or unwilling to stop him acting as he pleases.
    As political acts of abject, unprincipled cowardice go, the GOP senators refusal to convict Donald Trump has to be right up there.
    Any GOP Senator who votes to convict Trump will face a primary challenge they would probably lose, with a few exceptions like Romney in Utah where he has a big personal vote.

    The same goes for the 10 GOP Representatives who voted to impeach Trump.

    Turkeys do not vote for Christmas
    But why should the electorate vote for anyone who will not defend the Constitution when they have the chance? This GOP, out of fear of being primaried, have foregone any justification for being elected.

    It is so cowardly and unprincipled - they are not even prepared to fight for their own beliefs, let alone the Constitution. The GOP as constituted is not fit for purpose.
    There are plenty of Republican Senators who also think the Impeachment trial is a sham and that, if you are looking to convict Trump on incitement, then there should be plenty of Democrats facing the same as well. It's not all down to being craven and fearful.
    And which of those Democrats lost the presidential election, then activated the long prepared smear that it was stolen, then fed this lie relentlessly to their softhead base whilst launching a series of frivolous "only for show" court actions, then called a massive demo against the confirmation of his legal successor - the election winner - on confirmation day, then whipped that crowd up into a frenzy of righteous indignation and told them to march on the capitol and "fight" for the future their country? Precisely none. This is false equivalence of a degree amounting to blatant propaganda for Donald Trump. This now pointed out, I sincerely hope you will desist with it.
    The longer that Trump apologists like Mr Ed continue to pretend to believe that Trump did nothing wrong, the better it will get for the Democrats. The GOP seems to have learned nothing from their 2 Senate losses in Georgia
    Does calling people trump apologists help? I am in no doubt a corbyn government government would have been worse by far than trumps as corbyn would actually have tried to do stuff. Should I then through corbyn apologists at his many supporters here and how would that help debate?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    UK R

    From cases

    image
    image

    From hospitalisations

    image

    Not really seeing a vaccine effect in the R rate yet. Given we have about 12m vaccinated that is a little disappointing, even if a fair chunk of those vaccines are not fully operative yet.
  • Move Stonehenge back where it belongs? I think we may collectively have solved the A303 tunnel conundrum.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    Move Stonehenge back where it belongs? I think we may collectively have solved the A303 tunnel conundrum.

    Absolutely. If the Elgin Marbles belong in Greece Stonehenge belongs in Wales.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
    Is it kitsch to suggest the stone circle be re-erected? It could be a tourist attraction par excellence. Stone Henge was mostly put up by the Victorians after all.
    I have often thought that erecting a replica stonehenge, close to the Stonhenge visitor centre but out of sight of the actual stone circle (which is a kilometre away) would be a wise move.

    Most visitors would probably flock round the replica and won't be arsed to walk to the real circle, thus protecting the real Stonehenge.
    I agree - and actually to have this on the site of the original Stone Henge rather than the new one makes sense - especially if it draws more tourists to Wales (though I think Pembrokeshire has always done OK). It would be good to 're-envision' Stone Henge as if you were building a big attraction from scratch.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598

    Move Stonehenge back where it belongs? I think we may collectively have solved the A303 tunnel conundrum.

    Build a replica on a traffic island on the A303.....
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    DavidL said:

    UK R

    From cases

    image
    image

    From hospitalisations

    image

    Not really seeing a vaccine effect in the R rate yet. Given we have about 12m vaccinated that is a little disappointing, even if a fair chunk of those vaccines are not fully operative yet.
    We are absolutely seeing a vaccine effect in the R.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Amazing how people keep saying the loss of pollution is a detriment of brexit
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    I'm not sure tbh, this was brought up as it started in December and it was good then too to get trucks of the roads.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    OT. Seeing one of the rare downsides of living in the sticks today. 3 power cuts - only of a few minutes duration each time but of course everything has to be restarted afterwards. These are fairly common these days and getting more common each year. No idea of the cause but it is very frustrating, particularly when Western Power who run the power system in our area don't publish power outages of less than 3 minutes duration.

    We (in south-east suburbia) have had a few of these. They often happen at night and have the nasty effect of stopping my overnight recordings of cricket in Australia (first world problem, I know).
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    It's not a bad thing - but DaveKeating is an idiot so any change is bad regardless of reality.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    I'm not sure tbh, this was brought up as it started in December and it was good then too to get trucks of the roads.
    Its a stat its brexit related so therefore must be bad?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Those ferries are going to be travelling at 16 knots at eco speed. Must be significantly slower and more expensive to move goods around the UK coast than drive through the UK? Yet the Remainers are trumpeting this as a great advance in haulage.

    Hmmm..... If that is a win for the EU....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    edited February 2021

    It's amazing how in the absence of certain individuals the chat seems quite pleasant and interesting, rather than vile and rancid.

    Deleted, beaten to it by DavidL.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,879

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
    Is it kitsch to suggest the stone circle be re-erected? It could be a tourist attraction par excellence. Stone Henge was mostly put up by the Victorians after all.
    I have often thought that erecting a replica stonehenge, close to the Stonhenge visitor centre but out of sight of the actual stone circle (which is a kilometre away) would be a wise move.

    Most visitors would probably flock round the replica and won't be arsed to walk to the real circle, thus protecting the real Stonehenge.
    I agree - and actually to have this on the site of the original Stone Henge rather than the new one makes sense - especially if it draws more tourists to Wales (though I think Pembrokeshire has always done OK). It would be good to 're-envision' Stone Henge as if you were building a big attraction from scratch.
    Eh? The sarsen elements are very emphatically local to Wiltshire.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
    Is it kitsch to suggest the stone circle be re-erected? It could be a tourist attraction par excellence. Stone Henge was mostly put up by the Victorians after all.
    I have often thought that erecting a replica stonehenge, close to the Stonhenge visitor centre but out of sight of the actual stone circle (which is a kilometre away) would be a wise move.

    Most visitors would probably flock round the replica and won't be arsed to walk to the real circle, thus protecting the real Stonehenge.
    Possible, I suppose, but Stonehenge is just the most visible part of a huge Neolithic landscape. Any building, particularly any digging, is going to be going through World Heritage standard archeology. It is why the tunnel is so controversial.
  • SPIEGEL survey

    The EU's reputation suffers massively because of vaccine procurement

    Too slow, too little, too inefficient: there are big problems ordering vaccines in the European Union. A survey by SPIEGEL shows the dramatic consequences this has for the image of the EU.


    https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/umfrage-ansehen-der-eu-leidet-massiv-wegen-impfstoffbeschaffung-a-06324c7a-b3be-4284-b226-3382756eb394
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    It's amazing how in the absence of certain individuals the chat seems quite pleasant and interesting, rather than vile and rancid.

    I'm back now. Did I miss anything?
    Yes the pleasant and interesting rather than the vile and rancid because daveyboy arrived at least he forewarned us
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    UK R

    From cases

    image
    image

    From hospitalisations

    image

    Not really seeing a vaccine effect in the R rate yet. Given we have about 12m vaccinated that is a little disappointing, even if a fair chunk of those vaccines are not fully operative yet.
    We are absolutely seeing a vaccine effect in the R.
    It seems to have been sitting around 0.8 for about 3 weeks. Of course, given the new variants, it might have been going up but for the vaccines but I would like to see it start to fall a bit. If vaccinated people are generally not transmitters this should happen as the proportion of the population vaccinated increases.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
    Is it kitsch to suggest the stone circle be re-erected? It could be a tourist attraction par excellence. Stone Henge was mostly put up by the Victorians after all.
    I have often thought that erecting a replica stonehenge, close to the Stonhenge visitor centre but out of sight of the actual stone circle (which is a kilometre away) would be a wise move.

    Most visitors would probably flock round the replica and won't be arsed to walk to the real circle, thus protecting the real Stonehenge.
    I agree - and actually to have this on the site of the original Stone Henge rather than the new one makes sense - especially if it draws more tourists to Wales (though I think Pembrokeshire has always done OK). It would be good to 're-envision' Stone Henge as if you were building a big attraction from scratch.
    Eh? The sarsen elements are very emphatically local to Wiltshire.
    There's no need to get vinegary about it!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited February 2021
    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Senators supposed to be jurors in cases of impeachment ?

    https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1360258176478814210

    Not sure why they care how unprepared the team was, everyone can see the votes are there since before the trial even started. And it's not like they worry about the liberal media thinking that makes them look craven.
    Trump is using it to say the election was stolen.
    R Senators want him to say he didnt mean to incite the crowds. Trump wont do that for them.
    As always it is Trump demonstrating he has power, and the Senators wishing he didn't but unable or unwilling to stop him acting as he pleases.
    As political acts of abject, unprincipled cowardice go, the GOP senators refusal to convict Donald Trump has to be right up there.
    Any GOP Senator who votes to convict Trump will face a primary challenge they would probably lose, with a few exceptions like Romney in Utah where he has a big personal vote.

    The same goes for the 10 GOP Representatives who voted to impeach Trump.

    Turkeys do not vote for Christmas
    But why should the electorate vote for anyone who will not defend the Constitution when they have the chance? This GOP, out of fear of being primaried, have foregone any justification for being elected.

    It is so cowardly and unprincipled - they are not even prepared to fight for their own beliefs, let alone the Constitution. The GOP as constituted is not fit for purpose.
    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1360280922826756098?s=20
    15% of 50 Republican Senators seems about the upper end of expectations (a few less is likely), so perhaps pretty representative after all.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    It's not a bad thing - but DaveKeating is an idiot so any change is bad regardless of reality.
    If he wasnt supporting the eu they would claim he is a russian troll instead he is merely a lord eu eu
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Nah, they were bribed/threatened to hand them over, I read it from Bernard Cornwell.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    I'm not sure tbh, this was brought up as it started in December and it was good then too to get trucks of the roads.
    And away from our eastern ports whose capacity to handle freight is being reduced by EU paperwork. No doubt there was some ferry workers and the odd cafe making money off this trade but it doesn't seem much of a loss.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209
    OllyT said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Senators supposed to be jurors in cases of impeachment ?

    https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1360258176478814210

    Not sure why they care how unprepared the team was, everyone can see the votes are there since before the trial even started. And it's not like they worry about the liberal media thinking that makes them look craven.
    Trump is using it to say the election was stolen.
    R Senators want him to say he didnt mean to incite the crowds. Trump wont do that for them.
    As always it is Trump demonstrating he has power, and the Senators wishing he didn't but unable or unwilling to stop him acting as he pleases.
    As political acts of abject, unprincipled cowardice go, the GOP senators refusal to convict Donald Trump has to be right up there.
    Any GOP Senator who votes to convict Trump will face a primary challenge they would probably lose, with a few exceptions like Romney in Utah where he has a big personal vote.

    The same goes for the 10 GOP Representatives who voted to impeach Trump.

    Turkeys do not vote for Christmas
    But why should the electorate vote for anyone who will not defend the Constitution when they have the chance? This GOP, out of fear of being primaried, have foregone any justification for being elected.

    It is so cowardly and unprincipled - they are not even prepared to fight for their own beliefs, let alone the Constitution. The GOP as constituted is not fit for purpose.
    There are plenty of Republican Senators who also think the Impeachment trial is a sham and that, if you are looking to convict Trump on incitement, then there should be plenty of Democrats facing the same as well. It's not all down to being craven and fearful.
    And which of those Democrats lost the presidential election, then activated the long prepared smear that it was stolen, then fed this lie relentlessly to their softhead base whilst launching a series of frivolous "only for show" court actions, then called a massive demo against the confirmation of his legal successor - the election winner - on confirmation day, then whipped that crowd up into a frenzy of righteous indignation and told them to march on the capitol and "fight" for the future their country? Precisely none. This is false equivalence of a degree amounting to blatant propaganda for Donald Trump. This now pointed out, I sincerely hope you will desist with it.
    The longer that Trump apologists like Mr Ed continue to pretend to believe that Trump did nothing wrong, the better it will get for the Democrats. The GOP seems to have learned nothing from their 2 Senate losses in Georgia
    There is that. But both for betting and more altruistic reasons I'm rooting for the GOP to detox.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
    Is it kitsch to suggest the stone circle be re-erected? It could be a tourist attraction par excellence. Stone Henge was mostly put up by the Victorians after all.
    I have often thought that erecting a replica stonehenge, close to the Stonhenge visitor centre but out of sight of the actual stone circle (which is a kilometre away) would be a wise move.

    Most visitors would probably flock round the replica and won't be arsed to walk to the real circle, thus protecting the real Stonehenge.
    Possible, I suppose, but Stonehenge is just the most visible part of a huge Neolithic landscape. Any building, particularly any digging, is going to be going through World Heritage standard archeology. It is why the tunnel is so controversial.
    Yes. I think the ancients (by which I mean road planners in the 20th century) probably haven't helped things here - lots of people remember how close the road used to be to the stones, so a tunnel seems like a good idea, but there's clearly neolithic stuff all over Wiltshire.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
    Is it kitsch to suggest the stone circle be re-erected? It could be a tourist attraction par excellence. Stone Henge was mostly put up by the Victorians after all.
    I have often thought that erecting a replica stonehenge, close to the Stonhenge visitor centre but out of sight of the actual stone circle (which is a kilometre away) would be a wise move.

    Most visitors would probably flock round the replica and won't be arsed to walk to the real circle, thus protecting the real Stonehenge.
    I agree - and actually to have this on the site of the original Stone Henge rather than the new one makes sense - especially if it draws more tourists to Wales (though I think Pembrokeshire has always done OK). It would be good to 're-envision' Stone Henge as if you were building a big attraction from scratch.
    Eh? The sarsen elements are very emphatically local to Wiltshire.
    There's no need to get vinegary about it!
    are you suggesting Carnyx is part of the malt right?
  • Those ferries are going to be travelling at 16 knots at eco speed. Must be significantly slower and more expensive to move goods around the UK coast than drive through the UK? Yet the Remainers are trumpeting this as a great advance in haulage.

    Hmmm..... If that is a win for the EU....
    saves on fuel for the lorries
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,548
    edited February 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Posted this on the previous thread without realising we had moved on...

    Mango said:


    How do you see PR being implemented? Referendum? Or with SNP votes in parliament as they are leaving the country? Not sure they win a referendum, and even as a big fan of PR I am not sure using SNP votes to decide a huge constitutional change for rUK would be acceptable. Also doesnt take many rebels to stop it happening, plenty of Labour MPs are not fans of PR.

    Various possibilities:

    1. The UK loses a war to a real democracy.
    2. A benevolent artificial super intelligence gradually assumes control of all global affairs.
    3. Labour MPs do something a) beneficial and b) strategically smart.
    4. My secret band of left/liberal desperados take the levers of power and bequeath a written constitution and sensible political settlement when the guillotining is done.

    Number 3 is the least likely.
    Surely the scenario set out earlier on this thread (forgive me I forget by whom) is the most likely.

    Labour gains power on the back of SNP support. This in turn is conditional on an Independence referendum.
    Labour realises that the Scots will vote for independence and that in turn will remove the Labour majority in the current Parliament and make it far less likely there will be one in future Parliaments.
    Labour, the SNP and the other minor parties push through a change to electoral law that all future votes are by a PR system.

    It may be constitutionally dodgy if there is no PR referendum and they have not included it in their manifesto but they would argue that Parliament is sovereign and should be able to chose how it is elected.

    For the record I am against PR but it seems perfectly feasible that it could be introduced in the way I describe.
    That's a bummer. I pride myself - with some justification - on being able to predict with almost spooky accuracy what each & every PB poster will think about any particular political proposition. And I had you down as approving of a measure of electoral reform away from pure FPTP and towards some form of PR. Total total shock at my gaff about this revelation.
    LOL. Don't be too shocked. It stems from my utter distrust of all politicians. PR for me basically means coalitions and coalitions mean yet another way for politicians to stitch things up the way they want it rather than the way the people want it. I realise this is an exaggeration to some extent but it is intended to illustrate the end point of my concerns about PR rather than being some hard and fast rule. Basically I look at the way the Lib Dems behaved in the last coalition and consider that that is just the latest example of how parties will use the 'necessity' to form coalitions as an excuse to betray their electorate.

    There is also a more fundamental reason that I dislike PR which is that it further cements the position of the party in the electoral system. Personally I think every vote in Parliament should be a free vote and whipping should be illegal. That is a viable and logical position if you are voting for an individual representative. If you are voting for a party obviously that legally and morally puts the party in a position of power over its MPs. Something I think is a retrograde step for democracy.

    Obviously this does not apply to systems such as AV which retain the constituency link and which do not award MPs on the basis of the proportion of votes gained by the party nationally but then as many people pointed out on here at the time of the referendum on electoral reform such a system is not really PR.

    Basically I see parties as an unnecessary evil in politics and oppose anything that increases their grip on the system.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    UK R

    From cases

    image
    image

    From hospitalisations

    image

    Not really seeing a vaccine effect in the R rate yet. Given we have about 12m vaccinated that is a little disappointing, even if a fair chunk of those vaccines are not fully operative yet.
    We are absolutely seeing a vaccine effect in the R.
    It seems to have been sitting around 0.8 for about 3 weeks. Of course, given the new variants, it might have been going up but for the vaccines but I would like to see it start to fall a bit. If vaccinated people are generally not transmitters this should happen as the proportion of the population vaccinated increases.
    That's not how R works. We should already have seen it start to rise by now this far into a lockdown.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    New Italian government announced tonight

    To be sworn in tomorrow

    4 ministers for 5 Stars (Foreign affairs, agricolture, relationship with parliament, youth policies)
    3 ministers for Lega (Economic development, tourism, disabilities)
    3 ministers for PD (work, culture, defense)
    3 ministers for Forza Italia (Public administration, regional affairs, South)
    1 minister for Free and Equal (Health)
    1 minister for Italia Viva (Equal opportunities)

    7 ministers from Conte's government hold their positions + 2 reshuffled to new portofolios

    Sounds stable. Thanks for the update. Much as I like a GE, we can probably wait for it.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    I'm not sure tbh, this was brought up as it started in December and it was good then too to get trucks of the roads.
    And away from our eastern ports whose capacity to handle freight is being reduced by EU paperwork. No doubt there was some ferry workers and the odd cafe making money off this trade but it doesn't seem much of a loss.
    The same people claiming this is bad I suspect are the same people that if you said less people drive into london because of the congestion zone are making carpark workers less needed would have said its an acceptable cost of lowering london pollution
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,879

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
    Is it kitsch to suggest the stone circle be re-erected? It could be a tourist attraction par excellence. Stone Henge was mostly put up by the Victorians after all.
    I have often thought that erecting a replica stonehenge, close to the Stonhenge visitor centre but out of sight of the actual stone circle (which is a kilometre away) would be a wise move.

    Most visitors would probably flock round the replica and won't be arsed to walk to the real circle, thus protecting the real Stonehenge.
    I agree - and actually to have this on the site of the original Stone Henge rather than the new one makes sense - especially if it draws more tourists to Wales (though I think Pembrokeshire has always done OK). It would be good to 're-envision' Stone Henge as if you were building a big attraction from scratch.
    Eh? The sarsen elements are very emphatically local to Wiltshire.
    There's no need to get vinegary about it!
    Is that the brand name, or the possible stone cracking method?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209

    It's amazing how in the absence of certain individuals the chat seems quite pleasant and interesting, rather than vile and rancid.

    Anglosphere!
    Germans!
    Wokerati!
    War!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Six and a half year on, the SNP still has no answer to the question "and the currency?"
    Perhaps, but do as many people still care about that question?
  • kle4 said:

    Six and a half year on, the SNP still has no answer to the question "and the currency?"
    Perhaps, but do as many people still care about that question?
    How about the Pound?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    kinabalu said:

    Posted this on the previous thread without realising we had moved on...

    Mango said:


    How do you see PR being implemented? Referendum? Or with SNP votes in parliament as they are leaving the country? Not sure they win a referendum, and even as a big fan of PR I am not sure using SNP votes to decide a huge constitutional change for rUK would be acceptable. Also doesnt take many rebels to stop it happening, plenty of Labour MPs are not fans of PR.

    Various possibilities:

    1. The UK loses a war to a real democracy.
    2. A benevolent artificial super intelligence gradually assumes control of all global affairs.
    3. Labour MPs do something a) beneficial and b) strategically smart.
    4. My secret band of left/liberal desperados take the levers of power and bequeath a written constitution and sensible political settlement when the guillotining is done.

    Number 3 is the least likely.
    Surely the scenario set out earlier on this thread (forgive me I forget by whom) is the most likely.

    Labour gains power on the back of SNP support. This in turn is conditional on an Independence referendum.
    Labour realises that the Scots will vote for independence and that in turn will remove the Labour majority in the current Parliament and make it far less likely there will be one in future Parliaments.
    Labour, the SNP and the other minor parties push through a change to electoral law that all future votes are by a PR system.

    It may be constitutionally dodgy if there is no PR referendum and they have not included it in their manifesto but they would argue that Parliament is sovereign and should be able to chose how it is elected.

    For the record I am against PR but it seems perfectly feasible that it could be introduced in the way I describe.
    That's a bummer. I pride myself - with some justification - on being able to predict with almost spooky accuracy what each & every PB poster will think about any particular political proposition. And I had you down as approving of a measure of electoral reform away from pure FPTP and towards some form of PR. Total total shock at my gaff about this revelation.
    LOL. Don't be too shocked. It stems from my utter distrust of all politicians. PR for me basically means coalitions and coalitions mean yet another way for politicians to stitch things up the way they want it rather than the way the people want it. I realise this is an exaggeration to some extent but it is intended to illustrate the end point of my concerns about PR rather than being some hard and fast rule. Basically I look at the way the Lib Dems behaved in the last coalition and consider that that is just the latest example of how parties will use the 'necessity' to form coalitions as an excuse to betray their electorate.

    There is also a more fundamental reason that I dislike PR which is that it further cements the position of the party in the electoral system. Personally I think every vote in Parliament should be a free vote and whipping should be illegal. That is a viable and logical position if you are voting for an individual representative. If you are voting for a party obviously that legally and morally puts the party in a position of power over its MPs. Something I think is a retrograde step for democracy.

    Obviously this does not apply to systems such as AV which retain the constituency link and which do not award MPs on the basis of the proportion of votes gained by the party nationally but then as many people pointed out on here at the time of the referendum on electoral reform such a system is not really PR.

    Basically I see parties as an unnecessary evil in politics and oppose anything that increases their grip on the system.
    Precisely parties are the root of the problem which is why I suggested political reform the way I did in my header....made parties a thing of the past
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,879

    kle4 said:

    Six and a half year on, the SNP still has no answer to the question "and the currency?"
    Perhaps, but do as many people still care about that question?
    How about the Pound?
    That's what I was thinking. In 2014 we in Scotland were told to vote no if we wanted our currency to remain strong and not to lose a quarter of its value etc.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    You'll be sorry when all the Motorway services on the M40 have closed, and nature calls.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    kinabalu said:

    It's amazing how in the absence of certain individuals the chat seems quite pleasant and interesting, rather than vile and rancid.

    Anglosphere!
    Germans!
    Wokerati!
    War!
    Dont feed the trolls
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    You'll be sorry when all the Motorway services on the M40 have closed, and nature calls.
    You know we have things called bottles now?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    I’ve noticed the discussions on deaths from flu have once again conflated deaths from pneumonia with flu.
    Understandable to an extent as they’re reported together frequently, but deaths from influenza are far lower than anyone seems to believe when discussing these things.


    I've gone through the last decade of data and got this for England and Wales:

    ———-——-J09-J11 (influenza)—-J12-J18 (pneumonia)
    2010​————179​————————25344​
    2011​————425​————————25696​
    2012​————83​———————— 26055​
    2013​————159​————————26599​
    2014​————118​————————25301​
    2015​————282————————29565​
    2016​————427​————————27037​
    2017​————458​————————27137​
    2018​————1596​——————— 27855​
    2019​————1213​——————— 25129​
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:


    So you said earlier. That seems a bit strange. After all, while Johnson’s government procured them the administration is a local matter. But then, I suppose this isn’t about rationality.

    Do you think that may have a bearing on the Senedd elections? I’m still toying with ‘Tories - most seats’ in a tight three way split.

    I think the Tories are currently in some trouble in Wales.

    They have effectively deselected Suzy Davies from the List. She was their most capable performer. She had an eye for a good campaign -- she'd be asking for Stonehenge back right now, if she was leader. 😀

    It is a sign of a failing organisation when the most competent person is effectively ousted. So, I think this looks very ominous for the health of the Welsh Tories.

    I think the BritNat Right is also now looking very crowded in Wales -- what with Reckless' Abolish the Assembly Party and Farage's Reform UK both standing, it looks hard for RT to pick up the right-wing nut-job votes.

    At the moment, I suspect RT will make only a few gains, that is all.

    Of course, Drakeford is still very accident-prone ... but I'd say he is on course for very modest losses.
    Just to check, you do know the news re Stonehenge (or at least the bluestones bit)? They've found the holes it came from ... report in Graun today.
    It was stolen by thieves and taken to England. No surprise there :)
    Welsh thieves, if so, because they can tell from isotope analysis of burials at Stonehenge that the deceased had lived for decades around Preseli.

    And this is about the whole thing not just the bluestones, they have found holes in the ground in Wales corresponding to the sarsen stones as they now stand.

    The most fascinating bit of archaeology of a lifetime if it turns out to be true.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/original-stonehenge-a-dismantled-stone-circle-in-the-preseli-hills-of-west-wales/B7DAA4A7792B4DAB57DDE0E3136FBC33
    Of course they were Welsh.

    There were no English here before النكبة‎
    Is it kitsch to suggest the stone circle be re-erected? It could be a tourist attraction par excellence. Stone Henge was mostly put up by the Victorians after all.
    I have often thought that erecting a replica stonehenge, close to the Stonhenge visitor centre but out of sight of the actual stone circle (which is a kilometre away) would be a wise move.

    Most visitors would probably flock round the replica and won't be arsed to walk to the real circle, thus protecting the real Stonehenge.
    I agree - and actually to have this on the site of the original Stone Henge rather than the new one makes sense - especially if it draws more tourists to Wales (though I think Pembrokeshire has always done OK). It would be good to 're-envision' Stone Henge as if you were building a big attraction from scratch.
    Eh? The sarsen elements are very emphatically local to Wiltshire.
    There's no need to get vinegary about it!
    Is that the brand name, or the possible stone cracking method?
    The brand name Sarsons - just being daft. :lol:
  • Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    I am trying to work out why this is a bad thing. Maybe a little help?
    You'll be sorry when all the Motorway services on the M40 have closed, and nature calls.
    You know we have things called bottles now?
    M4, Pont Abraham, Magor
  • Is this happening in any other part of the UK?

    https://twitter.com/AnnieWellsMSP/status/1360216398128181253?s=20
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,599

    Those ferries are going to be travelling at 16 knots at eco speed. Must be significantly slower and more expensive to move goods around the UK coast than drive through the UK? Yet the Remainers are trumpeting this as a great advance in haulage.

    Hmmm..... If that is a win for the EU....
    What stops the Irish putting a "from the single market, honest" seal on the back of a truck, driving it through the UK, and having the french wave it through at calais? I understand such a system operates on trucks going Alaska <--> lower 48 via canada.
  • Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Posted this on the previous thread without realising we had moved on...

    Mango said:


    How do you see PR being implemented? Referendum? Or with SNP votes in parliament as they are leaving the country? Not sure they win a referendum, and even as a big fan of PR I am not sure using SNP votes to decide a huge constitutional change for rUK would be acceptable. Also doesnt take many rebels to stop it happening, plenty of Labour MPs are not fans of PR.

    Various possibilities:

    1. The UK loses a war to a real democracy.
    2. A benevolent artificial super intelligence gradually assumes control of all global affairs.
    3. Labour MPs do something a) beneficial and b) strategically smart.
    4. My secret band of left/liberal desperados take the levers of power and bequeath a written constitution and sensible political settlement when the guillotining is done.

    Number 3 is the least likely.
    Surely the scenario set out earlier on this thread (forgive me I forget by whom) is the most likely.

    Labour gains power on the back of SNP support. This in turn is conditional on an Independence referendum.
    Labour realises that the Scots will vote for independence and that in turn will remove the Labour majority in the current Parliament and make it far less likely there will be one in future Parliaments.
    Labour, the SNP and the other minor parties push through a change to electoral law that all future votes are by a PR system.

    It may be constitutionally dodgy if there is no PR referendum and they have not included it in their manifesto but they would argue that Parliament is sovereign and should be able to chose how it is elected.

    For the record I am against PR but it seems perfectly feasible that it could be introduced in the way I describe.
    That's a bummer. I pride myself - with some justification - on being able to predict with almost spooky accuracy what each & every PB poster will think about any particular political proposition. And I had you down as approving of a measure of electoral reform away from pure FPTP and towards some form of PR. Total total shock at my gaff about this revelation.
    LOL. Don't be too shocked. It stems from my utter distrust of all politicians. PR for me basically means coalitions and coalitions mean yet another way for politicians to stitch things up the way they want it rather than the way the people want it. I realise this is an exaggeration to some extent but it is intended to illustrate the end point of my concerns about PR rather than being some hard and fast rule. Basically I look at the way the Lib Dems behaved in the last coalition and consider that that is just the latest example of how parties will use the 'necessity' to form coalitions as an excuse to betray their electorate.

    There is also a more fundamental reason that I dislike PR which is that it further cements the position of the party in the electoral system. Personally I think every vote in Parliament should be a free vote and whipping should be illegal. That is a viable and logical position if you are voting for an individual representative. If you are voting for a party obviously that legally and morally puts the party in a position of power over its MPs. Something I think is a retrograde step for democracy.

    Obviously this does not apply to systems such as AV which retain the constituency link and which do not award MPs on the basis of the proportion of votes gained by the party nationally but then as many people pointed out on here at the time of the referendum on electoral reform such a system is not really PR.

    Basically I see parties as an unnecessary evil in politics and oppose anything that increases their grip on the system.
    Precisely parties are the root of the problem which is why I suggested political reform the way I did in my header....made parties a thing of the past
    Sadly I was stuck in the middle of a dead-lined project when your posting went up. I do intend going back and taking a closer look at it at some point as the theories and ideas surrounding democracy and politics often interest me far more than the day to day practice of it which I find rather depressing most of the time. This in turn stems I think from the fact that I never cease to be amazed how short sighted and stupid most politicians of all parties seem to be. I do genuinely believe we are all, the world over, poorly served by the vast majority of our political classes.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    kle4 said:

    Six and a half year on, the SNP still has no answer to the question "and the currency?"
    Perhaps, but do as many people still care about that question?
    They should. It is fundamental to the offer of independence.
This discussion has been closed.