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New US poll finds that if Trump decides to set up a new party 64% of Republicans would back it – pol

SystemSystem Posts: 12,168
edited February 2021 in General
New US poll finds that if Trump decides to set up a new party 64% of Republicans would back it – politicalbetting.com

Scary Stat of the Day:In a new @thehill poll 64% of registered Republicans say they would be likely to join a new political party started by Donald Trump.https://t.co/hS4qiTPWpb pic.twitter.com/CAoMdtBgTV

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Comments

  • FAKE NEWS THREAD!
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,671
    Seconds matter
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Those 36% opposed would be VERY opposed though I suspect.

    Cheerio, Republican Party....
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Not good news for the Republican Party. Their very own wrecking ball.
  • Yet the previous header argued Biden wouldn't be running in 2024.

  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Democrats, in a voice strangely reminiscent of Gene Wilder's: No. Don't. Stop.
  • If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then Biden will stay on and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    I don't think the GOP will split, the GOP will simply continue as the MAGA party.
  • Though would Trump be a Strom Thurmond to the GOP nominee's Harry Truman?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    From the last thread. Christopher Plumber in one of his greatest roles

    https://youtu.be/3DcWJrzK0wU?t=2305

    [referring to the English troops]
    Duchess of Richmond: They're the salt of England, Arthur.
    Duke of Wellington: Scum. Nothing but beggars and scoundrels, all of them. Gin is the spirit of their patriotism.
    Duchess of Richmond: Yet you expect them to die for you?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: Out of duty?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: I doubt if even Bonaparte could draw men to him by duty.
    Duke of Wellington: Oh, Boney's not a gentleman.
    Duchess of Richmond: Arthur! What an Englishman you are.
    Duke of Wellington: On the field of battle his hat is worth fifty thousand men; but he is not a gentleman.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the GOP will split, the GOP will simply continue as the MAGA party.

    Do you think Trump is the likely candidate again then?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the GOP will split, the GOP will simply continue as the MAGA party.

    The question is whether the MAGAists alone are sufficient for the GOP to win elections. I suspect not. I suspect the 2022 midterms will go a lot better for the Democrats than even they could hope.
  • If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then Biden will stay on and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then the Dems could run the office cat and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    Like it or not, the GOP has to get the shit of its shoes or the smell will never go.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then Biden will stay on and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then the Dems could run the office cat and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    Like it or not, the GOP has to get the shit of its shoes or the smell will never go.
    Plus, it is not just the Presidency. With a split Republican vote, the Democrats win that, yes.

    It puts the whole electoral map in play. 60 seats in the Senate would go from impossible to possible. Maybe even likely. A Democrat presidency with the House and Senate would be a juggenaught.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the GOP will split, the GOP will simply continue as the MAGA party.

    Do you think Trump is the likely candidate again then?
    Not sure at this stage. Could be DeSantis, Hawley, Ivanka, Trump Jr
  • Rejoice, the entertainment quotient in the Holyrood election had risen by several points

    https://twitter.com/thoughtland/status/1357760699439669250?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the GOP will split, the GOP will simply continue as the MAGA party.

    Do you think Trump is the likely candidate again then?
    Not sure at this stage. Could be DeSantis, Hawley, Ivanka, Trump Jr
    I've written him off and I hope that's not a bad call because I've started laying him and have well into 4 figs liability already. I do NOT want to see that man trading at a short price for the GOP nom this time next year.
  • Though would Trump be a Strom Thurmond to the GOP nominee's Harry Truman?

    I suspect Trump would make it onto the ballot in more states than Thurmond (he was mainly Southern states).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    RIP Christopher Plummer. Edelweiss is for me the best bit of a great film. Always brings a lump.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,692
    Perhaps the remaining Republicans could join with the right wing of the Democratic party to form the Republican Democrats and the left wing could become the Liberal Democrats (American definition).
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770
    kinabalu said:

    RIP Christopher Plummer. Edelweiss is for me the best bit of a great film. Always brings a lump.

    You old softy.

    RIP Christopher Plummer is a sentiment that I echo though.
  • Perhaps the remaining Republicans could join with the right wing of the Democratic party to form the Republican Democrats and the left wing could become the Liberal Democrats (American definition).

    There used to be the Democratic-Republican Party but given the way the GOP are they might best be co-opting the Know Nothing Movement/Party.
  • Nonsense poll.

    According to the polls how popular was a new pro Remain party going to be? Until it launched and the TIGgers found they'd bounced themselves out of a job.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893
    Evening all :)

    The only parallel even approaching this was 1912 when former President Theodore Roosevelt set up the Progressive party and polled 27% in the election with Taft for the GOP on 23%. Woodrow Wilson took back the WH for the Democrats with 41% in a landslide.

    Looking back at last November, Republicans voted 94-6 for Trump and Democrats 94-5 for Biden. The former were 36% of those who voted and the latter 37%. The key swing group were the 26% of Independents who backed Biden 54-41.

    Crunching those numbers gives the Trump Party 35% of the vote with the Democrats on 47% leaving the GOP on just 17%. That looks like Democrat landslide territory to this observer.

    To be fair to the Republicans, just eight years after the 1912 debacle, they regained the White House and controlled it for 12 years until Hoover was smashed in the first of FDR's four landslides.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Nonsense poll.

    According to the polls how popular was a new pro Remain party going to be? Until it launched and the TIGgers found they'd bounced themselves out of a job.

    Sure, but that so many were so tempted even in theory was a sign things were not particularly healthy politically.
  • Better option is for nonTrumpers to leave the Republicans!

    But Democrats have the same issue with Bernieites.

    But being President is less important than who wins seats in the Congress.

    In the internet age, its less important to have 15 minutes of fame but more to see 15 consonants published.
  • Nonsense poll.

    According to the polls how popular was a new pro Remain party going to be? Until it launched and the TIGgers found they'd bounced themselves out of a job.

    I liked the irony of a party called Change UK that didn't want to change anything, really, thank you very much
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    rpjs said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the GOP will split, the GOP will simply continue as the MAGA party.

    The question is whether the MAGAists alone are sufficient for the GOP to win elections. I suspect not. I suspect the 2022 midterms will go a lot better for the Democrats than even they could hope.
    A MAGA party might do ok in the House, and a rump GOP might win back some of the suburbs from the Dems.

    It is in the Senate that I'd expect a disaster for the right - MAGA could be expected to win in the truly deep red South and Appalachia. For the rump GOP, it could be a near wipe out in the Senate.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then Biden will stay on and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then the Dems could run the office cat and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    Like it or not, the GOP has to get the shit of its shoes or the smell will never go.
    Right now the GOP are giving standing ovations to Marjorie Taylor Greene whilst censuring Ben Sasse for opposing the insurrection tells you the GOP is in a bad place.
    Yes, she's dreadful, and a bit bonkers. The UK equivalent would be the Tories giving a standing ovation to Katie Hopkins. Not a good look.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893

    Nonsense poll.

    According to the polls how popular was a new pro Remain party going to be? Until it launched and the TIGgers found they'd bounced themselves out of a job.

    I don't see any kind of comparison to be honest.

    Trump isn't a single issue - he's a network of beliefs and ideas. I'd argue apart from wishing to Remain in the EU, the TIG group had very little in common.

    It's more akin to the SDP schism from Labour in 1981 but even that comparison is flawed. The only equivalent would have been if, having been ousted in November 1990, Margaret Thatcher had left the Conservative Party and formed her own political movement.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    edited February 2021
    kinabalu said:

    RIP Christopher Plummer. Edelweiss is for me the best bit of a great film. Always brings a lump.

    I have never seen The Sound of Music.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770

    Better option is for nonTrumpers to leave the Republicans!

    But Democrats have the same issue with Bernieites.

    But being President is less important than who wins seats in the Congress.

    In the internet age, its less important to have 15 minutes of fame but more to see 15 consonants published.

    In a couple of years it'll appear differently. I can't imagine there's any other US political theme.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355

    Nonsense poll.

    According to the polls how popular was a new pro Remain party going to be? Until it launched and the TIGgers found they'd bounced themselves out of a job.

    Remain had managed to shoot themselves in th feet in the Remainer Parliament that it was surprising they could stand at all.

    If they had shown some actual courage...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,587
    edited February 2021
    Today's first jabs: 480,560. Close to 1% of the adult population.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Perhaps the remaining Republicans could join with the right wing of the Democratic party to form the Republican Democrats and the left wing could become the Liberal Democrats (American definition).

    There used to be the Democratic-Republican Party but given the way the GOP are they might best be co-opting the Know Nothing Movement/Party.
    If they are going to be led by Trump we should call them the Pseudo-Whigs.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2021

    Nonsense poll.

    According to the polls how popular was a new pro Remain party going to be? Until it launched and the TIGgers found they'd bounced themselves out of a job.

    I liked the irony of a party called Change UK that didn't want to change anything, really, thank you very much
    They were imitating the others in that respect. The Liberal Democrats are neither liberal not democratic, Labour don't represent those that actually work for a living, and nowadays the Conservatives would be better renamed as the Wreckers.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Does this mean they could bring forward some of the second jabs?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    TimT said:

    rpjs said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the GOP will split, the GOP will simply continue as the MAGA party.

    The question is whether the MAGAists alone are sufficient for the GOP to win elections. I suspect not. I suspect the 2022 midterms will go a lot better for the Democrats than even they could hope.
    A MAGA party might do ok in the House, and a rump GOP might win back some of the suburbs from the Dems.

    It is in the Senate that I'd expect a disaster for the right - MAGA could be expected to win in the truly deep red South and Appalachia. For the rump GOP, it could be a near wipe out in the Senate.
    Difficult to see how they would approach a democratic election given that it would be understood that they would only accept the result if they had won. i.e. They can’t reasonably be recognised as being legitimate unless they are prepared to accept the result should they lose. And lose they would, of course.
  • kinabalu said:

    RIP Christopher Plummer. Edelweiss is for me the best bit of a great film. Always brings a lump.

    I have never seen The Sound of Music.
    Fear not. This short extract will assist:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv55nWACoCM
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then Biden will stay on and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then the Dems could run the office cat and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    Like it or not, the GOP has to get the shit of its shoes or the smell will never go.
    Right now the GOP are giving standing ovations to Marjorie Taylor Greene whilst censuring Ben Sasse for opposing the insurrection tells you the GOP is in a bad place.
    Yes, she's dreadful, and a bit bonkers. The UK equivalent would be the Tories giving a standing ovation to Katie Hopkins. Not a good look.
    Labour giving a standing ovation to Piers Corbyn.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,692
    AlistairM said:

    Does this mean they could bring forward some of the second jabs?
    For AZ, 12 weeks is the recommendation, so I don't think they'd want to. We might be able to accelerate the first doses if supply ramps up quickly though.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2021
    All the pictures I've seen of people getting their jabs don't look very Covid-safe to me: just the most basic masks, and quite often even those are falling off. Plus in some cases they look as though they take place in rather confined spaces. Is that the experience of those that have been jabbed?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,104
    This poll confirms why Republicans in the Senate will vote not to convict Trump.

    They cannot afford to vote to acquit him and see him set up his own party when 90% of Republican voters want to acquit him.

    https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/1356317630320279553?s=20

    So most likely the vote will go on party lines, a majority will vote to convict him but not by the 2/3 majority required
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770
    Alistair said:

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then Biden will stay on and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then the Dems could run the office cat and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    Like it or not, the GOP has to get the shit of its shoes or the smell will never go.
    Right now the GOP are giving standing ovations to Marjorie Taylor Greene whilst censuring Ben Sasse for opposing the insurrection tells you the GOP is in a bad place.
    Yes, she's dreadful, and a bit bonkers. The UK equivalent would be the Tories giving a standing ovation to Katie Hopkins. Not a good look.
    Labour giving a standing ovation to Piers Corbyn.
    If it had happened that his brother was in charge I wonder what the reception might have been?

    We got so close to a disaster.
  • Alistair said:

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then Biden will stay on and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then the Dems could run the office cat and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    Like it or not, the GOP has to get the shit of its shoes or the smell will never go.
    Right now the GOP are giving standing ovations to Marjorie Taylor Greene whilst censuring Ben Sasse for opposing the insurrection tells you the GOP is in a bad place.
    Yes, she's dreadful, and a bit bonkers. The UK equivalent would be the Tories giving a standing ovation to Katie Hopkins. Not a good look.
    Labour giving a standing ovation to Piers Corbyn.
    The SNP giving a standing ovation to Denise Findlay (bit niche)
  • Alistair said:

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then Biden will stay on and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then the Dems could run the office cat and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    Like it or not, the GOP has to get the shit of its shoes or the smell will never go.
    Right now the GOP are giving standing ovations to Marjorie Taylor Greene whilst censuring Ben Sasse for opposing the insurrection tells you the GOP is in a bad place.
    Yes, she's dreadful, and a bit bonkers. The UK equivalent would be the Tories giving a standing ovation to Katie Hopkins. Not a good look.
    Labour giving a standing ovation to Piers Corbyn.
    Yes, and the trouble is that people like this are not actually bonkers. They are in many ways perfectly normal and intelligent and have many admirable traits. The problem is that they have the political intelligence of eleven year olds.

    And of course the same has to be said for many of their followers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,104
    edited February 2021

    Nonsense poll.

    According to the polls how popular was a new pro Remain party going to be? Until it launched and the TIGgers found they'd bounced themselves out of a job.

    The LDs, Greens and SNP were already Remain parties as latterly were Labour in terms of EUref2, so there was little demand for TIG.

    When May failed to deliver Brexit in 2019 however, the Brexit Party took most of the Tory vote until Boris replaced her.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204

    kinabalu said:

    RIP Christopher Plummer. Edelweiss is for me the best bit of a great film. Always brings a lump.

    I have never seen The Sound of Music.
    Wow. Well it's worth a look. If you just want to see the Edelweiss bit it's quite near the end. Sometimes I just skip to that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,104
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    RIP Christopher Plummer. Edelweiss is for me the best bit of a great film. Always brings a lump.

    You old softy.

    RIP Christopher Plummer is a sentiment that I echo though.
    RIP indeed, he will always be Wellington and Captain Von Trapp for me
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    From the last thread. Christopher Plumber in one of his greatest roles

    https://youtu.be/3DcWJrzK0wU?t=2305

    [referring to the English troops]
    Duchess of Richmond: They're the salt of England, Arthur.
    Duke of Wellington: Scum. Nothing but beggars and scoundrels, all of them. Gin is the spirit of their patriotism.
    Duchess of Richmond: Yet you expect them to die for you?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: Out of duty?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: I doubt if even Bonaparte could draw men to him by duty.
    Duke of Wellington: Oh, Boney's not a gentleman.
    Duchess of Richmond: Arthur! What an Englishman you are.
    Duke of Wellington: On the field of battle his hat is worth fifty thousand men; but he is not a gentleman.

    Arthur, of course, being Irish
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 225
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the GOP will split, the GOP will simply continue as the MAGA party.

    Do you think Trump is the likely candidate again then?
    Not sure at this stage. Could be DeSantis, Hawley, Ivanka, Trump Jr
    MGT
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 225
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the GOP will split, the GOP will simply continue as the MAGA party.

    Do you think Trump is the likely candidate again then?
    Not sure at this stage. Could be DeSantis, Hawley, Ivanka, Trump Jr
    MGT
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Omnium said:

    Alistair said:

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then Biden will stay on and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then the Dems could run the office cat and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    Like it or not, the GOP has to get the shit of its shoes or the smell will never go.
    Right now the GOP are giving standing ovations to Marjorie Taylor Greene whilst censuring Ben Sasse for opposing the insurrection tells you the GOP is in a bad place.
    Yes, she's dreadful, and a bit bonkers. The UK equivalent would be the Tories giving a standing ovation to Katie Hopkins. Not a good look.
    Labour giving a standing ovation to Piers Corbyn.
    If it had happened that his brother was in charge I wonder what the reception might have been?

    We got so close to a disaster.
    We got the disaster. It’s just not the special Corbyn disaster.
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 225
    The thing is every GOP nominee is crazier and more right wing than the last one so I dont think it would be Hawley, he just isnt bat shit crazy enough
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Would imply average deliveries of over 4m doses a week between now and then. Add in Pfizer, and Moderna coming in Q2, and the May target for first doses today should really be the entire population.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Charles said:

    From the last thread. Christopher Plumber in one of his greatest roles

    https://youtu.be/3DcWJrzK0wU?t=2305

    [referring to the English troops]
    Duchess of Richmond: They're the salt of England, Arthur.
    Duke of Wellington: Scum. Nothing but beggars and scoundrels, all of them. Gin is the spirit of their patriotism.
    Duchess of Richmond: Yet you expect them to die for you?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: Out of duty?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: I doubt if even Bonaparte could draw men to him by duty.
    Duke of Wellington: Oh, Boney's not a gentleman.
    Duchess of Richmond: Arthur! What an Englishman you are.
    Duke of Wellington: On the field of battle his hat is worth fifty thousand men; but he is not a gentleman.

    Arthur, of course, being Irish
    This was surely his best film though, if not his best role. Here with another recently departed actor, Sean Connery:
    https://youtu.be/rmZbCwmOC6I
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Alistair said:

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then Biden will stay on and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then the Dems could run the office cat and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    Like it or not, the GOP has to get the shit of its shoes or the smell will never go.
    Right now the GOP are giving standing ovations to Marjorie Taylor Greene whilst censuring Ben Sasse for opposing the insurrection tells you the GOP is in a bad place.
    Yes, she's dreadful, and a bit bonkers. The UK equivalent would be the Tories giving a standing ovation to Katie Hopkins. Not a good look.
    Labour giving a standing ovation to Piers Corbyn.
    If it had happened that his brother was in charge I wonder what the reception might have been?

    We got so close to a disaster.
    We got the disaster. It’s just not the special Corbyn disaster.
    I concede the point.
  • All the pictures I've seen of people getting their jabs don't look very Covid-safe to me: just the most basic masks, and quite often even those are falling off. Plus in some cases they look as though they take place in rather confined spaces. Is that the experience of those that have been jabbed?

    Nope.

    All perfectly orderly and safe.

    But it was Cheltenham. Civilised sorts.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    AlistairM said:

    Does this mean they could bring forward some of the second jabs?
    There are 54M 16+ year olds in the UK. By the time you take off a few million for Pfizer... 100 million doses is both doses for the rest.

    Not to mention the other vaccines on the way.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    All the pictures I've seen of people getting their jabs don't look very Covid-safe to me: just the most basic masks, and quite often even those are falling off. Plus in some cases they look as though they take place in rather confined spaces. Is that the experience of those that have been jabbed?

    I doubt that masks are a serious issue: AIUI length of exposure is pertinent to transmission as well as proximity. If the person giving the vaccine and the person receiving it are going to be sat opposite one another for thirty seconds or a minute then one would've thought that a basic surgical mask would be entirely adequate.

    Beyond that I can't comment from personal experience: I'll be waiting a long time for my turn.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    kinabalu said:

    RIP Christopher Plummer. Edelweiss is for me the best bit of a great film. Always brings a lump.

    I have never seen The Sound of Music.
    Well you wouldn't have would you, it's a sound.
  • Should Civil Servants be announcing Government plans? Isn't that the job of politicians?

    https://twitter.com/PermSecScot/status/1357364018676191235?s=20
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    BigG post incoming: Johnson a vaccination hero; Drakeford a total disaster.
  • TimT said:

    rpjs said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the GOP will split, the GOP will simply continue as the MAGA party.

    The question is whether the MAGAists alone are sufficient for the GOP to win elections. I suspect not. I suspect the 2022 midterms will go a lot better for the Democrats than even they could hope.
    A MAGA party might do ok in the House, and a rump GOP might win back some of the suburbs from the Dems.

    It is in the Senate that I'd expect a disaster for the right - MAGA could be expected to win in the truly deep red South and Appalachia. For the rump GOP, it could be a near wipe out in the Senate.
    That sounds about right, Tim. Presumably you can confirm that it is decades of gerrymandering that contributes greatly towards this paradox.
  • 'Scottish independence: Are unionists fighting a losing battle?'

    tinyurl.com/10wh5b22

    I know there's a big Kevin Hague fan on PB.

    '“Some unionists feel like they are fighting a losing battle,” conceded Kevin Hague, a Scotland-based entrepreneur, pro-UK campaigner and chairman of These Islands, a pro-union think-tank.'

    It should surprise no one that Kevin is taking the standard Unionist coward's way out of avoiding that losing battle by refusing to let it take place.

    '“It’s absolutely true that those campaigning for separation have got more momentum and a greater sense of readiness for a referendum than those who would defend the union,” he said.
    But, he added, even if the SNP were to gain majority control of the Scottish Parliament, and manage to legislate for a second independence poll, “there isn’t going to be an independence referendum anytime soon”.'
  • kinabalu said:

    RIP Christopher Plummer. Edelweiss is for me the best bit of a great film. Always brings a lump.

    I have never seen The Sound of Music.
    Well you wouldn't have would you, it's a sound.
    Groan.

    People have been sent to ConHome for less, Lucky.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,104
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the GOP will split, the GOP will simply continue as the MAGA party.

    Do you think Trump is the likely candidate again then?
    Not sure at this stage. Could be DeSantis, Hawley, Ivanka, Trump Jr
    In my view it will be Pence as the early polling suggests

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1356836849533284352?s=20

    However Hawley clearly presenting himself as the dream candidate for the MAGA crowd, he is also far brighter than most of the Trumpites, educated at Stanford and Yale law school and a former associate professor and lawyer.

    https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1357719042677764098?s=20
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    From the last thread. Christopher Plumber in one of his greatest roles

    https://youtu.be/3DcWJrzK0wU?t=2305

    [referring to the English troops]
    Duchess of Richmond: They're the salt of England, Arthur.
    Duke of Wellington: Scum. Nothing but beggars and scoundrels, all of them. Gin is the spirit of their patriotism.
    Duchess of Richmond: Yet you expect them to die for you?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: Out of duty?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: I doubt if even Bonaparte could draw men to him by duty.
    Duke of Wellington: Oh, Boney's not a gentleman.
    Duchess of Richmond: Arthur! What an Englishman you are.
    Duke of Wellington: On the field of battle his hat is worth fifty thousand men; but he is not a gentleman.

    Arthur, of course, being Irish
    This was surely his best film though, if not his best role. Here with another recently departed actor, Sean Connery:
    https://youtu.be/rmZbCwmOC6I
    A great clip - history and a nice flourish of English for you I guess.

    I'm impressed that you thought of linking the scene.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,104
    edited February 2021

    'Scottish independence: Are unionists fighting a losing battle?'

    tinyurl.com/10wh5b22

    I know there's a big Kevin Hague fan on PB.

    '“Some unionists feel like they are fighting a losing battle,” conceded Kevin Hague, a Scotland-based entrepreneur, pro-UK campaigner and chairman of These Islands, a pro-union think-tank.'

    It should surprise no one that Kevin is taking the standard Unionist coward's way out of avoiding that losing battle by refusing to let it take place.

    '“It’s absolutely true that those campaigning for separation have got more momentum and a greater sense of readiness for a referendum than those who would defend the union,” he said.
    But, he added, even if the SNP were to gain majority control of the Scottish Parliament, and manage to legislate for a second independence poll, “there isn’t going to be an independence referendum anytime soon”.'

    His last sentence is correct, Boris will not allow a legal indyref2 nor recognise the result.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,431
    AlistairM said:

    Does this mean they could bring forward some of the second jabs?
    AZ will stay at 12 weeks as the evidence suggests this is the best interval. I expect us to smash the obviously fake new Hancock target though. Classic scotty engineering estimate for all you Trekkies...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    kinabalu said:

    RIP Christopher Plummer. Edelweiss is for me the best bit of a great film. Always brings a lump.

    I have never seen The Sound of Music.
    Well you wouldn't have would you, it's a sound.
    Groan.

    People have been sent to ConHome for less, Lucky.
    Sorry. :lol:
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    From the last thread. Christopher Plumber in one of his greatest roles

    https://youtu.be/3DcWJrzK0wU?t=2305

    [referring to the English troops]
    Duchess of Richmond: They're the salt of England, Arthur.
    Duke of Wellington: Scum. Nothing but beggars and scoundrels, all of them. Gin is the spirit of their patriotism.
    Duchess of Richmond: Yet you expect them to die for you?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: Out of duty?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: I doubt if even Bonaparte could draw men to him by duty.
    Duke of Wellington: Oh, Boney's not a gentleman.
    Duchess of Richmond: Arthur! What an Englishman you are.
    Duke of Wellington: On the field of battle his hat is worth fifty thousand men; but he is not a gentleman.

    Arthur, of course, being Irish
    This was surely his best film though, if not his best role. Here with another recently departed actor, Sean Connery:
    https://youtu.be/rmZbCwmOC6I
    A minor role, but I do love that film!
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Prediction: England will eventually end up last according to this metric, vaccine hesitancy amongst some BAME communities being the determining factor.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,431

    All the pictures I've seen of people getting their jabs don't look very Covid-safe to me: just the most basic masks, and quite often even those are falling off. Plus in some cases they look as though they take place in rather confined spaces. Is that the experience of those that have been jabbed?

    Limited time in proximity to people though. All looks pretty social distanced for most of the time people are there. Plus I believe the jabbers have usually been jabbed.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    HYUFD said:

    'Scottish independence: Are unionists fighting a losing battle?'

    tinyurl.com/10wh5b22

    I know there's a big Kevin Hague fan on PB.

    '“Some unionists feel like they are fighting a losing battle,” conceded Kevin Hague, a Scotland-based entrepreneur, pro-UK campaigner and chairman of These Islands, a pro-union think-tank.'

    It should surprise no one that Kevin is taking the standard Unionist coward's way out of avoiding that losing battle by refusing to let it take place.

    '“It’s absolutely true that those campaigning for separation have got more momentum and a greater sense of readiness for a referendum than those who would defend the union,” he said.
    But, he added, even if the SNP were to gain majority control of the Scottish Parliament, and manage to legislate for a second independence poll, “there isn’t going to be an independence referendum anytime soon”.'

    His last sentence is correct
    I think all his sentences are correct. However, that doesn't mean he's being particularly hypocritical, which seems to be the implication. Is there a rule that Indyref 2 must take place at a time most convenient electorally for the Yes side? If there is, it seems an odd one.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    AlistairM said:

    Does this mean they could bring forward some of the second jabs?
    AZ will stay at 12 weeks as the evidence suggests this is the best interval. I expect us to smash the obviously fake new Hancock target though. Classic scotty engineering estimate for all you Trekkies...
    End of April would be a good solid target for all adults - it's laughable expectation gaming for over 50s
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    AlistairM said:

    Does this mean they could bring forward some of the second jabs?
    AZ will stay at 12 weeks as the evidence suggests this is the best interval. I expect us to smash the obviously fake new Hancock target though. Classic scotty engineering estimate for all you Trekkies...
    If so then Hancock's an amateur. He should know always to multiply his estimates by a factor of four :smiley:
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    AlistairM said:

    Does this mean they could bring forward some of the second jabs?
    AZ will stay at 12 weeks as the evidence suggests this is the best interval. I expect us to smash the obviously fake new Hancock target though. Classic scotty engineering estimate for all you Trekkies...
    Indeed, we've just got to get cracking, 100m doses in H1 means they will be running the production at full capacity this month some time which means 5m doses per week delivered. It's genuinely great news.
  • HYUFD said:

    'Scottish independence: Are unionists fighting a losing battle?'

    tinyurl.com/10wh5b22

    I know there's a big Kevin Hague fan on PB.

    '“Some unionists feel like they are fighting a losing battle,” conceded Kevin Hague, a Scotland-based entrepreneur, pro-UK campaigner and chairman of These Islands, a pro-union think-tank.'

    It should surprise no one that Kevin is taking the standard Unionist coward's way out of avoiding that losing battle by refusing to let it take place.

    '“It’s absolutely true that those campaigning for separation have got more momentum and a greater sense of readiness for a referendum than those who would defend the union,” he said.
    But, he added, even if the SNP were to gain majority control of the Scottish Parliament, and manage to legislate for a second independence poll, “there isn’t going to be an independence referendum anytime soon”.'

    His last sentence is correct, Boris will not allow a legal indyref2 nor recognise the result.
    Sure, I know that BJ is also a coward.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    maaarsh said:

    AlistairM said:

    Does this mean they could bring forward some of the second jabs?
    AZ will stay at 12 weeks as the evidence suggests this is the best interval. I expect us to smash the obviously fake new Hancock target though. Classic scotty engineering estimate for all you Trekkies...
    End of April would be a good solid target for all adults - it's laughable expectation gaming for over 50s
    Ah, but we have higher expectations because we sit here yakking about the figures, because we're s̶t̶r̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ atypically interested. Average Joe Public isn't.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then Biden will stay on and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then the Dems could run the office cat and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    Like it or not, the GOP has to get the shit of its shoes or the smell will never go.
    Right now the GOP are giving standing ovations to Marjorie Taylor Greene whilst censuring Ben Sasse for opposing the insurrection tells you the GOP is in a bad place.
    Yes, she's dreadful, and a bit bonkers. The UK equivalent would be the Tories giving a standing ovation to Katie Hopkins. Not a good look.
    Got this email from Matt Gaetz just now - indicative of the fact that the Trumpists, in true Stalinist fashion, are more interested in purity and fighting their own, rather than facing the enemy:

    "Patriot -

    "We have the RINO Establishment in panic mode.

    "Hundreds of patriots stood with me at the Wyoming Capitol to call out Liz Cheney and her America-Last policies that serve the interests of her corporate warlords and not the American people.

    "We need to send a clear message → President Trump’s America First movement is the guiding doctrine of the real Republican Party - not the corporate crony vision of Liz Cheney, Mitt Romney, and the rest of the RINOs in Washington."
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    maaarsh said:

    AlistairM said:

    Does this mean they could bring forward some of the second jabs?
    AZ will stay at 12 weeks as the evidence suggests this is the best interval. I expect us to smash the obviously fake new Hancock target though. Classic scotty engineering estimate for all you Trekkies...
    End of April would be a good solid target for all adults - it's laughable expectation gaming for over 50s
    Ah, but we have higher expectations because we sit here yakking about the figures, because we're s̶t̶r̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ atypically interested. Average Joe Public isn't.
    and Joe journalist is so comically innumerate that they don't instantly report the 'target' is cynical expectations management
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Charles said:

    From the last thread. Christopher Plumber in one of his greatest roles

    https://youtu.be/3DcWJrzK0wU?t=2305

    [referring to the English troops]
    Duchess of Richmond: They're the salt of England, Arthur.
    Duke of Wellington: Scum. Nothing but beggars and scoundrels, all of them. Gin is the spirit of their patriotism.
    Duchess of Richmond: Yet you expect them to die for you?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: Out of duty?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: I doubt if even Bonaparte could draw men to him by duty.
    Duke of Wellington: Oh, Boney's not a gentleman.
    Duchess of Richmond: Arthur! What an Englishman you are.
    Duke of Wellington: On the field of battle his hat is worth fifty thousand men; but he is not a gentleman.

    Arthur, of course, being Irish
    That’s not a stable argument!
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited February 2021
    Floater said:
    1. That hasn't stopped Hungary
    2. Might not stop the rest of them if they're sufficiently desperate
    3. Oxford/AZ was developed in Satanic Brexitland, hence the regulatory misgivings. Sputnik V, on the other hand, comes from Putin's Russia. So that's OK.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    HYUFD said:

    'Scottish independence: Are unionists fighting a losing battle?'

    tinyurl.com/10wh5b22

    I know there's a big Kevin Hague fan on PB.

    '“Some unionists feel like they are fighting a losing battle,” conceded Kevin Hague, a Scotland-based entrepreneur, pro-UK campaigner and chairman of These Islands, a pro-union think-tank.'

    It should surprise no one that Kevin is taking the standard Unionist coward's way out of avoiding that losing battle by refusing to let it take place.

    '“It’s absolutely true that those campaigning for separation have got more momentum and a greater sense of readiness for a referendum than those who would defend the union,” he said.
    But, he added, even if the SNP were to gain majority control of the Scottish Parliament, and manage to legislate for a second independence poll, “there isn’t going to be an independence referendum anytime soon”.'

    His last sentence is correct, Boris will not allow a legal indyref2 nor recognise the result.
    And round and round we go
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the GOP will split, the GOP will simply continue as the MAGA party.

    Do you think Trump is the likely candidate again then?
    Not sure at this stage. Could be DeSantis, Hawley, Ivanka, Trump Jr
    In my view it will be Pence as the early polling suggests

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1356836849533284352?s=20

    However Hawley clearly presenting himself as the dream candidate for the MAGA crowd, he is also far brighter than most of the Trumpites, educated at Stanford and Yale law school and a former associate professor and lawyer.

    https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1357719042677764098?s=20
    I see his point though -the woke left try to silence conservatives, while Hawley openly supports those who spread lies in order to try to steal an election that was lost, and encourage people to take violent action, which means he totally holds the moral high ground.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,104

    HYUFD said:

    'Scottish independence: Are unionists fighting a losing battle?'

    tinyurl.com/10wh5b22

    I know there's a big Kevin Hague fan on PB.

    '“Some unionists feel like they are fighting a losing battle,” conceded Kevin Hague, a Scotland-based entrepreneur, pro-UK campaigner and chairman of These Islands, a pro-union think-tank.'

    It should surprise no one that Kevin is taking the standard Unionist coward's way out of avoiding that losing battle by refusing to let it take place.

    '“It’s absolutely true that those campaigning for separation have got more momentum and a greater sense of readiness for a referendum than those who would defend the union,” he said.
    But, he added, even if the SNP were to gain majority control of the Scottish Parliament, and manage to legislate for a second independence poll, “there isn’t going to be an independence referendum anytime soon”.'

    His last sentence is correct, Boris will not allow a legal indyref2 nor recognise the result.
    Sure, I know that BJ is also a coward.
    Even more reason he will not allow it as if he lost it he would have to leave No 10
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    Should Civil Servants be announcing Government plans? Isn't that the job of politicians?

    https://twitter.com/PermSecScot/status/1357364018676191235?s=20

    Endangered species always need promoting.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,431
    Charles said:

    From the last thread. Christopher Plumber in one of his greatest roles

    https://youtu.be/3DcWJrzK0wU?t=2305

    [referring to the English troops]
    Duchess of Richmond: They're the salt of England, Arthur.
    Duke of Wellington: Scum. Nothing but beggars and scoundrels, all of them. Gin is the spirit of their patriotism.
    Duchess of Richmond: Yet you expect them to die for you?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: Out of duty?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: I doubt if even Bonaparte could draw men to him by duty.
    Duke of Wellington: Oh, Boney's not a gentleman.
    Duchess of Richmond: Arthur! What an Englishman you are.
    Duke of Wellington: On the field of battle his hat is worth fifty thousand men; but he is not a gentleman.

    Arthur, of course, being Irish
    Nonsense. As the great man said, being born in a stable, does not make one a horse...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    I've received several emails from companies offering online meeting training today, one of which directly referenced them - fast moving work, which is good as a meme like this has a half life of around a day.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,104
    TimT said:

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then Biden will stay on and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    If the GOP does split in time for 2024 then the Dems could run the office cat and win a landslide on a Reagan 84 level.

    Like it or not, the GOP has to get the shit of its shoes or the smell will never go.
    Right now the GOP are giving standing ovations to Marjorie Taylor Greene whilst censuring Ben Sasse for opposing the insurrection tells you the GOP is in a bad place.
    Yes, she's dreadful, and a bit bonkers. The UK equivalent would be the Tories giving a standing ovation to Katie Hopkins. Not a good look.
    Got this email from Matt Gaetz just now - indicative of the fact that the Trumpists, in true Stalinist fashion, are more interested in purity and fighting their own, rather than facing the enemy:

    "Patriot -

    "We have the RINO Establishment in panic mode.

    "Hundreds of patriots stood with me at the Wyoming Capitol to call out Liz Cheney and her America-Last policies that serve the interests of her corporate warlords and not the American people.

    "We need to send a clear message → President Trump’s America First movement is the guiding doctrine of the real Republican Party - not the corporate crony vision of Liz Cheney, Mitt Romney, and the rest of the RINOs in Washington."
    Much like Corbynites from 2015 to 2020, for Trumpites gaining control of the party is the main aim
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    sarissa said:

    Charles said:

    From the last thread. Christopher Plumber in one of his greatest roles

    https://youtu.be/3DcWJrzK0wU?t=2305

    [referring to the English troops]
    Duchess of Richmond: They're the salt of England, Arthur.
    Duke of Wellington: Scum. Nothing but beggars and scoundrels, all of them. Gin is the spirit of their patriotism.
    Duchess of Richmond: Yet you expect them to die for you?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: Out of duty?
    Duke of Wellington: Um-hum.
    Duchess of Richmond: I doubt if even Bonaparte could draw men to him by duty.
    Duke of Wellington: Oh, Boney's not a gentleman.
    Duchess of Richmond: Arthur! What an Englishman you are.
    Duke of Wellington: On the field of battle his hat is worth fifty thousand men; but he is not a gentleman.

    Arthur, of course, being Irish
    That’s not a stable argument!
    Chapeau
  • HYUFD said:

    'Scottish independence: Are unionists fighting a losing battle?'

    tinyurl.com/10wh5b22

    I know there's a big Kevin Hague fan on PB.

    '“Some unionists feel like they are fighting a losing battle,” conceded Kevin Hague, a Scotland-based entrepreneur, pro-UK campaigner and chairman of These Islands, a pro-union think-tank.'

    It should surprise no one that Kevin is taking the standard Unionist coward's way out of avoiding that losing battle by refusing to let it take place.

    '“It’s absolutely true that those campaigning for separation have got more momentum and a greater sense of readiness for a referendum than those who would defend the union,” he said.
    But, he added, even if the SNP were to gain majority control of the Scottish Parliament, and manage to legislate for a second independence poll, “there isn’t going to be an independence referendum anytime soon”.'

    His last sentence is correct
    I think all his sentences are correct. However, that doesn't mean he's being particularly hypocritical, which seems to be the implication. Is there a rule that Indyref 2 must take place at a time most convenient electorally for the Yes side? If there is, it seems an odd one.
    A general opinion is that referendums take place when the electorate vote for them to take place.
    There definitely isn't a rule that they shouldn't take place because it's inconvenient electorally for the No side, except in the heads of the No side.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    HYUFD said:

    'Scottish independence: Are unionists fighting a losing battle?'

    tinyurl.com/10wh5b22

    I know there's a big Kevin Hague fan on PB.

    '“Some unionists feel like they are fighting a losing battle,” conceded Kevin Hague, a Scotland-based entrepreneur, pro-UK campaigner and chairman of These Islands, a pro-union think-tank.'

    It should surprise no one that Kevin is taking the standard Unionist coward's way out of avoiding that losing battle by refusing to let it take place.

    '“It’s absolutely true that those campaigning for separation have got more momentum and a greater sense of readiness for a referendum than those who would defend the union,” he said.
    But, he added, even if the SNP were to gain majority control of the Scottish Parliament, and manage to legislate for a second independence poll, “there isn’t going to be an independence referendum anytime soon”.'

    His last sentence is correct, Boris will not allow a legal indyref2 nor recognise the result.
    You are in denial over an inevitable outcome. Should the SNP introduce an Independence referendum that they win, the pressure on the UK Government would be immense. The harder and longer they kick back, the greater the inevitability and the greater the support.

    You are right (from your multiple previous posts) that a military engagement is Johnson's last resort option over Scotland. Your troops by then might be otherwise engaged in Jeffrey Donaldson's wet dream of removing the border in the North Channel and having no physical land borders. Surely that means annexing the South by force.
This discussion has been closed.