Flags really do trigger some leftie Labourites don't they.
Is flag waving an issue like this in other countries? Do lefties in places like France have some meltdown about this? Is a genuine question. I honestly don't know the answer. It is considered even of note if a politician has a flag of their own country?
The American Left is now developing this weird lefty English anti-patriotism (identified decades ago by Orwell, of course) - discomfort with flag and anthem, general dislike of patriotism because it is associated with the alt right, Trump, rednecks, etc
Germany also has it (see the video of Merkel irritably grabbing and concealing a German flag) - but for very different reasons.
Not sure I've seen it anywhere else.
Actually, I have: Australia is getting quite a nasty case. See the campaign to move Australia Day.
Australia definitely has a bad bout of the wokeism disease*.....and then all those keyboard warriors were shocked when the country voted for the right wing lot.
* And still a lot of racism (far worse than here). In that respect similar to US, with the wokeys and the racists.
Yeah, you can see and hear overt racism in places like the Northern Territory or Queensland in a way unthinkable in Britain.
It's not just one side, tho: aboriginal Australians can be violent and aggressive towards white people, just for being white.
Given the tragic history, the latter is more understandable.
Rural Queensland and the NT make the Old South in the US look like a bleeding heart liberal oasis.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
Did you clap last night at 6pm?
I didn't.
But then I'm a monster as I didn't clap for carers either.
To be clear there is nothing wrong with arguing against this or any other header. Absolutely not, I dont agree with the tone of it myself, although it does make some good points and gets us to reflect.
The issue is the hysterical response, threats to leave the site and criticising the author rather than the merits or not of the argument.
I agree that posting a threat to leave the site is just dumb.
If you want to leave the site, you can just leave it ... quietly. You won't be missed. No need to post, just go.
None of us would be missed, if we were to stop posting.
OTH, criticising Meeks is perfectly fine. He doles it out aplenty, so he can take it.
The thread header writers are not red squirrels. They are not an endangered species needing protection.
I slightly disagree, there are some on here whose opinions I value very much indeed. Its good to have different view points made, and often made very well indeed. So much better than echo chambers of social media. I would miss some of you...
Who has threatened to leave the site? Just wondering.
To be clear there is nothing wrong with arguing against this or any other header. Absolutely not, I dont agree with the tone of it myself, although it does make some good points and gets us to reflect.
The issue is the hysterical response, threats to leave the site and criticising the author rather than the merits or not of the argument.
I agree that posting a threat to leave the site is just dumb.
If you want to leave the site, you can just leave it ... quietly. You won't be missed. No need to post, just go.
None of us would be missed, if we were to stop posting.
OTH, criticising Meeks is perfectly fine. He doles it out aplenty, so he can take it.
The thread header writers are not red squirrels. They are not an endangered species needing protection.
I slightly disagree, there are some on here whose opinions I value very much indeed. Its good to have different view points made, and often made very well indeed. So much better than echo chambers of social media. I would miss some of you...
Who has threatened to leave the site? Just wondering.
A typically one eyed article from Mr Meeks. Very quick on the mark with 108000 deaths and desperatly quick to bring in soldiers deaths. But... Pro rata Portugal's death toll would be 80,000. Its health service is effectively collapsing, and running out oxygen. Belgium's toll would be 120,000.
By hey Mr Meeks, you carry on with your shroud waving numbers and misrepresent the country and the govt. Its a pandemic Mr Meeks. It does not stick to rules (a bit like reckless hedonistic youths). And its mutating. Go ahead and nitpick and second guess to fit your prejudice.
This govt has certainly not done any worse, except possibly by those countries who are happy to be subservient to rigid orders. And of course the EU fall down at the first hurdle.
And at the deep fundamental level our govt has led the world with a way to get out of this pandemic.
Not that you would guess from the usual nonsense from Mr Meeks. If you dont have anything worthwhile to say Mr Meeks just don't bother saying it.
Though his article was rather more independent of thought, more erudite and more articulate than your post perhaps?
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
Did you clap last night at 6pm?
I didn't.
But then I'm a monster as I didn't clap for carers either.
Why oh why do you hate this country?
I was actually soaking in the bath (tmi, apols) with a Sea Arch & tonic (also tmi for this boozy crowd).
To be clear there is nothing wrong with arguing against this or any other header. Absolutely not, I dont agree with the tone of it myself, although it does make some good points and gets us to reflect.
The issue is the hysterical response, threats to leave the site and criticising the author rather than the merits or not of the argument.
I agree that posting a threat to leave the site is just dumb.
If you want to leave the site, you can just leave it ... quietly. You won't be missed. No need to post, just go.
None of us would be missed, if we were to stop posting.
OTH, criticising Meeks is perfectly fine. He doles it out aplenty, so he can take it.
The thread header writers are not red squirrels. They are not an endangered species needing protection.
I slightly disagree, there are some on here whose opinions I value very much indeed. Its good to have different view points made, and often made very well indeed. So much better than echo chambers of social media. I would miss some of you...
Come on. None of us are that distinctive. There is always another @YBarddCwsc or @turbotubbs
For example, look what happened to SeanT, the poster with the permanent erection.
The head of the UK’s biggest chain of airport hotels has said his company has been “kept in the dark” over the government’s plans for hotel quarantine.
Boris Johnson announced last month that all arrivals from 33 high-risk countries would be required to go into quarantine for ten days to stop the importation of “vaccine-busting” strains of the coronavirus.
However, the government has yet to announce when the new policy will be implemented, with Whitehall sources suggesting it may not be in place until the week of February 15.
Rob Paterson, chief executive of the Best Western hotel group, said the government had yet to have any detailed conversations about the policy. He said that if he had announced a major programme without any details “I’m not sure I’d have a job”....
..Paterson told Today on BBC Radio 4 that Best Western is “yet to understand exactly what protocols are required of the hotels”.
He said: “I think in any normal company if you went out and announced a programme nationally and you hadn’t thought about how you were going to plan that, and you hadn’t spoken to the people involved . . . I’m not sure I’d have a job if I did that in my company.
“To this day we simply haven’t heard anything despite multiple offers. We’ve got all these contacts in other countries that have already rolled this out for some time. They could offer some really valuable support and we’re just simply kept in the dark.”
Paterson added that hoteliers “need some assurance” over demand levels, pricing and security measures.
Flags really do trigger some leftie Labourites don't they.
Is flag waving an issue like this in other countries? Do lefties in places like France have some meltdown about this? Is a genuine question. I honestly don't know the answer. It is considered even of note if a politician has a flag of their own country?
The American Left is now developing this weird lefty English anti-patriotism (identified decades ago by Orwell, of course) - discomfort with flag and anthem, general dislike of patriotism because it is associated with the alt right, Trump, rednecks, etc
Germany also has it (see the video of Merkel irritably grabbing and concealing a German flag) - but for very different reasons.
Not sure I've seen it anywhere else.
Actually, I have: Australia is getting quite a nasty case. See the campaign to move Australia Day.
Australia definitely has a bad bout of the wokeism disease*.....and then all those keyboard warriors were shocked when the country voted for the right wing lot.
* And still a lot of racism (far worse than here). In that respect similar to US, with the wokeys and the racists.
On the last - almost as if there is a connective feedback between the levels of woke and racism, isn't it?
Perhaps....before Covid, I had a painful dinner with some friends of friends who had recently move from Oz...they were painfully woke, constantly going on about how much they missed the diversity of living in major city in Oz verus now living rurally in the UK and how their kids were missing out on so much because their school wasn't diverse enough and the government should force more by busing of different ethnicities to rural schools.
It did feel rather like they were really trying to sound as far away from a sterotypical ozzie with questionable attitudes to the indigenous people.
Transferring culture like this always seems strange.
My daughters live on social media. It is interesting talking with them - it's almost a process of landing back in the UK. Where medicine is quite definitely and firmly socialised. Or should I say socialised? And the police, while having problems with racism*, do not kill a large number of people for being black on weekly basis.
*I introduced them to Constable Savage, via Youtube, then we talked about racism in the UK police.
Flags really do trigger some leftie Labourites don't they.
Is flag waving an issue like this in other countries? Do lefties in places like France have some meltdown about this? Is a genuine question. I honestly don't know the answer. It is considered even of note if a politician has a flag of their own country?
The American Left is now developing this weird lefty English anti-patriotism (identified decades ago by Orwell, of course) - discomfort with flag and anthem, general dislike of patriotism because it is associated with the alt right, Trump, rednecks, etc
Germany also has it (see the video of Merkel irritably grabbing and concealing a German flag) - but for very different reasons.
Not sure I've seen it anywhere else.
Actually, I have: Australia is getting quite a nasty case. See the campaign to move Australia Day.
There has been a movement towards flaggery here of the sort we used to leave to demonstrative foreigners. The leftist distaste for it is in fact them arguing for a return to traditional values.
To be clear there is nothing wrong with arguing against this or any other header. Absolutely not, I dont agree with the tone of it myself, although it does make some good points and gets us to reflect.
The issue is the hysterical response, threats to leave the site and criticising the author rather than the merits or not of the argument.
I agree that posting a threat to leave the site is just dumb.
If you want to leave the site, you can just leave it ... quietly. You won't be missed. No need to post, just go.
None of us would be missed, if we were to stop posting.
OTH, criticising Meeks is perfectly fine. He doles it out aplenty, so he can take it.
The thread header writers are not red squirrels. They are not an endangered species needing protection.
I slightly disagree, there are some on here whose opinions I value very much indeed. Its good to have different view points made, and often made very well indeed. So much better than echo chambers of social media. I would miss some of you...
Who has threatened to leave the site? Just wondering.
Flags really do trigger some leftie Labourites don't they.
Is flag waving an issue like this in other countries? Do lefties in places like France have some meltdown about this? Is a genuine question. I honestly don't know the answer. It is considered even of note if a politician has a flag of their own country?
The American Left is now developing this weird lefty English anti-patriotism (identified decades ago by Orwell, of course) - discomfort with flag and anthem, general dislike of patriotism because it is associated with the alt right, Trump, rednecks, etc
Germany also has it (see the video of Merkel irritably grabbing and concealing a German flag) - but for very different reasons.
Not sure I've seen it anywhere else.
Actually, I have: Australia is getting quite a nasty case. See the campaign to move Australia Day.
Australia definitely has a bad bout of the wokeism disease*.....and then all those keyboard warriors were shocked when the country voted for the right wing lot.
* And still a lot of racism (far worse than here). In that respect similar to US, with the wokeys and the racists.
Yeah, you can see and hear overt racism in places like the Northern Territory or Queensland in a way unthinkable in Britain.
It's not just one side, tho: aboriginal Australians can be violent and aggressive towards white people, just for being white.
Given the tragic history, the latter is more understandable.
Rural Queensland and the NT make the Old South in the US look like a bleeding heart liberal oasis.
Yes, I've spent an afternoon getting drunk with a bunch of white barramundi fishermen, in a jungle bar a hundred miles from Darwin (or anywhere else).
My God. It was like being in a white Pretoria pub in about 1956.
On the other hand, the levels of drunkenness, child abuse, drugtaking, violence, general crime, in and from aboriginal communities don't exactly help. White Australia is very generous in its support of these desperate people. Yet almost nothing seems to work.
I see the latest bait being swallowed by the terminally SAGE committee gullible on here is 'once the over 50s are done!'
At least Rishi Sunak is starting to make the connections and ask the questions people who are able to think for themselves are asking.
Totally ignored on here of course!
Apart from daily discussion on when things should and when things will re-open, both with a variety of opinions, yes it is completely ignored, terrible.
To be clear there is nothing wrong with arguing against this or any other header. Absolutely not, I dont agree with the tone of it myself, although it does make some good points and gets us to reflect.
The issue is the hysterical response, threats to leave the site and criticising the author rather than the merits or not of the argument.
I agree that posting a threat to leave the site is just dumb.
If you want to leave the site, you can just leave it ... quietly. You won't be missed. No need to post, just go.
None of us would be missed, if we were to stop posting.
OTH, criticising Meeks is perfectly fine. He doles it out aplenty, so he can take it.
The thread header writers are not red squirrels. They are not an endangered species needing protection.
I slightly disagree, there are some on here whose opinions I value very much indeed. Its good to have different view points made, and often made very well indeed. So much better than echo chambers of social media. I would miss some of you...
Who has threatened to leave the site? Just wondering.
Don't think it was a regular poster
Appeared to have 7 posts I think...
I was hoping it was going to be Philip Thompson, but what else would he do with his time?
Flags really do trigger some leftie Labourites don't they.
Is flag waving an issue like this in other countries? Do lefties in places like France have some meltdown about this? Is a genuine question. I honestly don't know the answer. It is considered even of note if a politician has a flag of their own country?
Burgon's analysis is correct.
Labour is an analogue party in a digital age.
No clue what you mean by that.
What Labour might be is an internationalist party in a national populist age. If so, this is fine by me.
Flags really do trigger some leftie Labourites don't they.
Is flag waving an issue like this in other countries? Do lefties in places like France have some meltdown about this? Is a genuine question. I honestly don't know the answer. It is considered even of note if a politician has a flag of their own country?
The American Left is now developing this weird lefty English anti-patriotism (identified decades ago by Orwell, of course) - discomfort with flag and anthem, general dislike of patriotism because it is associated with the alt right, Trump, rednecks, etc
Germany also has it (see the video of Merkel irritably grabbing and concealing a German flag) - but for very different reasons.
Not sure I've seen it anywhere else.
Actually, I have: Australia is getting quite a nasty case. See the campaign to move Australia Day.
There has been a movement towards flaggery here of the sort we used to leave to demonstrative foreigners. The leftist distaste for it is in fact them arguing for a return to traditional values.
Thats because we have the wrong flag we should use the one I have
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
Did you clap last night at 6pm?
I didn't.
But then I'm a monster as I didn't clap for carers either.
Why oh why do you hate this country?
I was actually soaking in the bath (tmi, apols) with a Sea Arch & tonic (also tmi for this boozy crowd).
Where we live, only the birds would hear us clapping.
We had a Sainsbury's delivery last night that arrived at 5.45pm which we were still sorting out.
I never understood the public displays following the death of Princess Diana.
I dread to think the reaction of this country when her Majesty moves on, it will make the three year mourning for Kim Il-sung look understated.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
That could hold some water if we had any idea at all about Labour's plans for the big, intractable problems and issues, but we don't. We don't even know if SKS means by the word 'fair' equalisation of opportunity or of outcomes. Nor do we know what he wants to do with UK outside the EU. Or debt. Or deficit. Or anything else.
Nicola manages to be centre left and fly the flag and be proudly Scottish. It isn't that hard.
To be clear there is nothing wrong with arguing against this or any other header. Absolutely not, I dont agree with the tone of it myself, although it does make some good points and gets us to reflect.
The issue is the hysterical response, threats to leave the site and criticising the author rather than the merits or not of the argument.
I agree that posting a threat to leave the site is just dumb.
If you want to leave the site, you can just leave it ... quietly. You won't be missed. No need to post, just go.
None of us would be missed, if we were to stop posting.
OTH, criticising Meeks is perfectly fine. He doles it out aplenty, so he can take it.
The thread header writers are not red squirrels. They are not an endangered species needing protection.
I slightly disagree, there are some on here whose opinions I value very much indeed. Its good to have different view points made, and often made very well indeed. So much better than echo chambers of social media. I would miss some of you...
Who has threatened to leave the site? Just wondering.
A typically one eyed article from Mr Meeks. Very quick on the mark with 108000 deaths and desperatly quick to bring in soldiers deaths. But... Pro rata Portugal's death toll would be 80,000. Its health service is effectively collapsing, and running out oxygen. Belgium's toll would be 120,000.
By hey Mr Meeks, you carry on with your shroud waving numbers and misrepresent the country and the govt. Its a pandemic Mr Meeks. It does not stick to rules (a bit like reckless hedonistic youths). And its mutating. Go ahead and nitpick and second guess to fit your prejudice.
This govt has certainly not done any worse, except possibly by those countries who are happy to be subservient to rigid orders. And of course the EU fall down at the first hurdle.
And at the deep fundamental level our govt has led the world with a way to get out of this pandemic.
Not that you would guess from the usual nonsense from Mr Meeks. If you dont have anything worthwhile to say Mr Meeks just don't bother saying it.
With all due respect, when you have to search so hard to find people worse hit, you have to recognise that - until recently - we haven't done very well.
Indeed, for 2020, we managed the double of worst death rate and biggest drop in economic activity (of major countries).
Fortunately, we (and by "we", I mean "Kate Bingham") got one things absolutely right: our vaccine policy. We are going to be first of large countries to reach something like full vaccination. At some point, probably at the beginning of Q2, we will effectively have CV19 behind us, and we will be well ahead of anywhere else.
So, two cheers for the vaccine success; but let's not pretend we did great before then.
Flags really do trigger some leftie Labourites don't they.
Is flag waving an issue like this in other countries? Do lefties in places like France have some meltdown about this? Is a genuine question. I honestly don't know the answer. It is considered even of note if a politician has a flag of their own country?
The American Left is now developing this weird lefty English anti-patriotism (identified decades ago by Orwell, of course) - discomfort with flag and anthem, general dislike of patriotism because it is associated with the alt right, Trump, rednecks, etc
Germany also has it (see the video of Merkel irritably grabbing and concealing a German flag) - but for very different reasons.
Not sure I've seen it anywhere else.
Actually, I have: Australia is getting quite a nasty case. See the campaign to move Australia Day.
There has been a movement towards flaggery here of the sort we used to leave to demonstrative foreigners. The leftist distaste for it is in fact them arguing for a return to traditional values.
Thats because we have the wrong flag we should use the one I have
“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
That could hold some water if we had any idea at all about Labour's plans for the big, intractable problems and issues, but we don't. We don't even know if SKS means by the word 'fair' equalisation of opportunity or of outcomes. Nor do we know what he wants to do with UK outside the EU. Or debt. Or deficit. Or anything else.
Nicola manages to be centre left and fly the flag and be proudly Scottish. It isn't that hard.
In fairness to SKS, Nicola flies the flag by manufacturing an endless stream of grievances against the English, which isn't really open to the English Labour Party, unless they want to be confined to self-hating Guardianista enclaves.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
Did you clap last night at 6pm?
I didn't.
But then I'm a monster as I didn't clap for carers either.
Why oh why do you hate this country?
I was actually soaking in the bath (tmi, apols) with a Sea Arch & tonic (also tmi for this boozy crowd).
Where we live, only the birds would hear us clapping.
We had a Sainsbury's delivery that arrived at 5.45pm which we still sorting out.
I never understood the public displays following the death of Princess Diana.
I dread to think the reaction of this country when her Majesty moves on, it will make the three year mourning for Kim Il-sung look understated.
The reaction to HMQ going will be several orders of magnitude different from what was experienced in 1997.
Bar a few Republicans trying hard to ignore it, the whole country will stop for a couple of weeks. It will be the world's biggest news story of the year. My Mum is 74 now, she was five when the Queen ascended to the throne. The vast majority of the country don't know anything other than the Queen.
London looks like it needs a strategy to reach out to more over 80s. I mean obviously it has less over 80s as a % of the population but it was in the 60s for penetration, most of the UK was up to around 80 odd %.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
Did you clap last night at 6pm?
I didn't. But I didn't make a point of not clapping either. If the mood had seized me I would not have fought it.
Flags really do trigger some leftie Labourites don't they.
Is flag waving an issue like this in other countries? Do lefties in places like France have some meltdown about this? Is a genuine question. I honestly don't know the answer. It is considered even of note if a politician has a flag of their own country?
The American Left is now developing this weird lefty English anti-patriotism (identified decades ago by Orwell, of course) - discomfort with flag and anthem, general dislike of patriotism because it is associated with the alt right, Trump, rednecks, etc
Germany also has it (see the video of Merkel irritably grabbing and concealing a German flag) - but for very different reasons.
Not sure I've seen it anywhere else.
Actually, I have: Australia is getting quite a nasty case. See the campaign to move Australia Day.
There has been a movement towards flaggery here of the sort we used to leave to demonstrative foreigners. The leftist distaste for it is in fact them arguing for a return to traditional values.
Thats because we have the wrong flag we should use the one I have
“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”
I actually got it for my sister who lives in northern ireland and like so many houses there when they moved in it came with a flag pole, so got them a test alliance please ignore one so they would stand out
As they both seemingly like flags, there's not even a debate between them really.
It really is one of the dullest esoteric discussions we've had to endure for a while –– perhaps a good sign that things are slowly returning to normal!
Flags really do trigger some leftie Labourites don't they.
Is flag waving an issue like this in other countries? Do lefties in places like France have some meltdown about this? Is a genuine question. I honestly don't know the answer. It is considered even of note if a politician has a flag of their own country?
The American Left is now developing this weird lefty English anti-patriotism (identified decades ago by Orwell, of course) - discomfort with flag and anthem, general dislike of patriotism because it is associated with the alt right, Trump, rednecks, etc
Germany also has it (see the video of Merkel irritably grabbing and concealing a German flag) - but for very different reasons.
Not sure I've seen it anywhere else.
Actually, I have: Australia is getting quite a nasty case. See the campaign to move Australia Day.
Its a problem when your opponents appropriate signa and flags and bring them to mean something that they shouldn't. We have a similar problem in Scotland with the Saltire. It has become an adjunct of the SNP so that most normal Scots shy away from it and don't use it.
There are exceptions. There is a house on the Perth dual carriageway which rotates both the Union Jack and the Saltire on their flag pole but it is getting rarer. I think that the Democrats would be unwise to give up their claim to the Stars and Stripes in the US.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
That could hold some water if we had any idea at all about Labour's plans for the big, intractable problems and issues, but we don't. We don't even know if SKS means by the word 'fair' equalisation of opportunity or of outcomes. Nor do we know what he wants to do with UK outside the EU. Or debt. Or deficit. Or anything else.
Nicola manages to be centre left and fly the flag and be proudly Scottish. It isn't that hard.
It is quite hard, if your country is seen as an alpha nation, a victor and a conqueror: a nation that vanquished the world, creating the biggest empire in history, and, by the by, making sure everyone on the planet had to learn its language.
That's England. Waving a flag in that context can be seen as vulgar gloating, at best, and as brutishly racist (the Empire) at worst.
Despite the fact that Scotland happily joined England's empire, and did much of the imperialising, and is represented in the Union Jack as it is in the Commons, Sturgeon et al have managed to create a new Irish-like Scotland that had very little to do with the Empire, a poor wee valiant Scotland that has just been abused by big nasty England: therefore waving the flag is a lusty act of rebellion, a cry of defiance, William Wallace in a kilt on a horse, all that tartan shite
To wave a flag without guilt, as a lefty, your country needs to be a loser, in some form.
The French flag works because it is the flag of the republic, the little people, after the Revolution, NOT the ancien regime
To be clear there is nothing wrong with arguing against this or any other header. Absolutely not, I dont agree with the tone of it myself, although it does make some good points and gets us to reflect.
The issue is the hysterical response, threats to leave the site and criticising the author rather than the merits or not of the argument.
I agree that posting a threat to leave the site is just dumb.
If you want to leave the site, you can just leave it ... quietly. You won't be missed. No need to post, just go.
None of us would be missed, if we were to stop posting.
OTH, criticising Meeks is perfectly fine. He doles it out aplenty, so he can take it.
The thread header writers are not red squirrels. They are not an endangered species needing protection.
I slightly disagree, there are some on here whose opinions I value very much indeed. Its good to have different view points made, and often made very well indeed. So much better than echo chambers of social media. I would miss some of you...
Who has threatened to leave the site? Just wondering.
Sean.
Again.
When I was walking down the lawn I met a man who wasn't Sean He wasn't Sean again today I wish, I wish he'd go away
Flags really do trigger some leftie Labourites don't they.
Is flag waving an issue like this in other countries? Do lefties in places like France have some meltdown about this? Is a genuine question. I honestly don't know the answer. It is considered even of note if a politician has a flag of their own country?
The American Left is now developing this weird lefty English anti-patriotism (identified decades ago by Orwell, of course) - discomfort with flag and anthem, general dislike of patriotism because it is associated with the alt right, Trump, rednecks, etc
Germany also has it (see the video of Merkel irritably grabbing and concealing a German flag) - but for very different reasons.
Not sure I've seen it anywhere else.
Actually, I have: Australia is getting quite a nasty case. See the campaign to move Australia Day.
There has been a movement towards flaggery here of the sort we used to leave to demonstrative foreigners. The leftist distaste for it is in fact them arguing for a return to traditional values.
Thats because we have the wrong flag we should use the one I have
“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”
I actually got it for my sister who lives in northern ireland and like so many houses there when they moved in it came with a flag pole, so got them a test alliance please ignore one so they would stand out
The Corona virus dashbaords has some excellent visualisations for England that are hidden when you look at the default UK wide views. The deaths by age heatmap is particularly striking for comparing first and 2nd wave.
I believe the vaccine can't be given to those who are already infected, can it? So surely that's exactly what we should expect.
Not sure what you want? Them to jab people who are already ill with Covid and who have refused consent?
I think you wouldn't want to send a vaccination team into a care home with an outbreak, since you'd them have to put that team into isolation and they wouldn't be able to inject people for two weeks.
So there are reasons why not every care home resident will be vaccinated and, because infection rates are higher in England, that will mean fewer will have been vaccinated, even if every possible vaccination has been given.
However, the government should have a figure for how many vaccinations of care home residents have been given and of how many care home residents there are, and so be able to provide the proportion of one of the other.
That it is unwilling to provide this number is not good.
Not really. If all who can be vaccinated have been then it is finished for now.
If people are refusing vaccines they can't be vaccinated against their will - and quoting them then as not vaccinated is misleading if you're reporting progress in getting through the age groups.
We want to see how many people have been vaccinated so that we have an idea of how successful the vaccination campaign has been, and how close to vaccine-acquired herd immunity we are.
We want these numbers for subgroups because we are vaccinating by subgroups. It doesn't have to do with whether the next groups on the list should be vaccinated.
If there are large numbers of people who have refused the vaccine we need to know that. If there are large numbers of care homes that remain to have vaccinations because of outbreaks we need to know that.
HMG should not be hiding these numbers.
It is quite interesting to see what is being... not said.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
That could hold some water if we had any idea at all about Labour's plans for the big, intractable problems and issues, but we don't. We don't even know if SKS means by the word 'fair' equalisation of opportunity or of outcomes. Nor do we know what he wants to do with UK outside the EU. Or debt. Or deficit. Or anything else.
Nicola manages to be centre left and fly the flag and be proudly Scottish. It isn't that hard.
It is quite hard, if your country is seen as an alpha nation, a victor and a conqueror: a nation that vanquished the world, creating the biggest empire in history, and, by the by, making sure everyone on the planet had to learn its language.
That's England. Waving a flag in that context can be seen as vulgar gloating, at best, and as brutishly racist (the Empire) at worst.
Despite the fact that Scotland happily joined England's empire, and did much of the imperialising, and is represented in the Union Jack as it is in the Commons, Sturgeon et al have managed to create a new Irish-like Scotland that had very little to do with the Empire, a poor wee valiant Scotland that has just been abused by big nasty England: therefore waving the flag is a lusty act of rebellion, a cry of defiance, William Wallace in a kilt on a horse, all that tartan shite
To wave a flag without guilt, as a lefty, your country needs to be a loser, in some form.
The French flag works because it is the flag of the republic, the little people, after the Revolution, NOT the ancien regime
When you say "happily", wouldn't it be more appropriate to say ", as a result of managing to go bust putting the entire country's wealth in the 18th Century equivalent of Gamestop,"?
Catastrophic decision making is a feature of this government
That's all great as far as it goes but
(1) anyone who thought that you could become a third country with regard to the EU without NTBs isn't really up with reality and (2) a lot of the critics are emulating the DUP by opposing everything and proposing nothing serious and precise about what is better. Which decisions. What improvements. How implemented.
BTW yes, we have been told untruths by government.
EEA says Hi!
Yes, the number of Remainers and gradualist Leavers who in truth would be comfortable with 'Norway for Now' means it was a massive missed opportunity.
Can one be in both the EEA and the CPTPP by some means?
To be clear there is nothing wrong with arguing against this or any other header. Absolutely not, I dont agree with the tone of it myself, although it does make some good points and gets us to reflect.
The issue is the hysterical response, threats to leave the site and criticising the author rather than the merits or not of the argument.
I agree that posting a threat to leave the site is just dumb.
If you want to leave the site, you can just leave it ... quietly. You won't be missed. No need to post, just go.
None of us would be missed, if we were to stop posting.
OTH, criticising Meeks is perfectly fine. He doles it out aplenty, so he can take it.
The thread header writers are not red squirrels. They are not an endangered species needing protection.
I slightly disagree, there are some on here whose opinions I value very much indeed. Its good to have different view points made, and often made very well indeed. So much better than echo chambers of social media. I would miss some of you...
Who has threatened to leave the site? Just wondering.
Sean.
Again.
You have this totally WEIRD idea that I am Sean, don't you? I seem to recall remarks to that effect, from you.
For the purposes of clarity, I am not this "Sean" dude. If I only I were: a handsome, virile, wealthy international thriller writer. Sounds like fun.
But even if I were Sean - which I am not - I have not threatened to leave the site.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
That could hold some water if we had any idea at all about Labour's plans for the big, intractable problems and issues, but we don't. We don't even know if SKS means by the word 'fair' equalisation of opportunity or of outcomes. Nor do we know what he wants to do with UK outside the EU. Or debt. Or deficit. Or anything else.
Nicola manages to be centre left and fly the flag and be proudly Scottish. It isn't that hard.
It is quite hard, if your country is seen as an alpha nation, a victor and a conqueror: a nation that vanquished the world, creating the biggest empire in history, and, by the by, making sure everyone on the planet had to learn its language.
That's England. Waving a flag in that context can be seen as vulgar gloating, at best, and as brutishly racist (the Empire) at worst.
Despite the fact that Scotland happily joined England's empire, and did much of the imperialising, and is represented in the Union Jack as it is in the Commons, Sturgeon et al have managed to create a new Irish-like Scotland that had very little to do with the Empire, a poor wee valiant Scotland that has just been abused by big nasty England: therefore waving the flag is a lusty act of rebellion, a cry of defiance, William Wallace in a kilt on a horse, all that tartan shite
To wave a flag without guilt, as a lefty, your country needs to be a loser, in some form.
The French flag works because it is the flag of the republic, the little people, after the Revolution, NOT the ancien regime
When you say "happily", wouldn't it be more appropriate to say ", as a result of managing to go bust putting the entire country's wealth in the 18th Century equivalent of Gamestop,"?
lol. Yeah
I was referring more to the 19th century, when the Scots definitely joined in the whole Rule the Entire World thing with great gusto.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
Did you clap last night at 6pm?
I didn't.
But then I'm a monster as I didn't clap for carers either.
Why oh why do you hate this country?
I was actually soaking in the bath (tmi, apols) with a Sea Arch & tonic (also tmi for this boozy crowd).
Where we live, only the birds would hear us clapping.
We had a Sainsbury's delivery that arrived at 5.45pm which we still sorting out.
I never understood the public displays following the death of Princess Diana.
I dread to think the reaction of this country when her Majesty moves on, it will make the three year mourning for Kim Il-sung look understated.
The reaction to HMQ going will be several orders of magnitude different from what was experienced in 1997.
Bar a few Republicans trying hard to ignore it, the whole country will stop for a couple of weeks. It will be the world's biggest news story of the year. My Mum is 74 now, she was five when the Queen ascended to the throne. The vast majority of the country don't know anything other than the Queen.
Yeah. I wonder how many who support the Monarchy actually support HMQ? Whatever. Her passing will be a psychic shock. Try singing "God Save the King". It isn't easy to do. It will take some adjustment.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
The issue is that this thinktank has correctly identified a major problem for Labour - it is perceived as being anti-patriotic, and as contemptuous of its ex-core-vote: the white working class. For the very good reason that it IS.
However, the same thinktank has failed to find any kind of solution. The idea you can magic this away with a few flags or "veterans at party rallies" (really?) is painfully simplistic. It will just look cringe.
What can Labour do? Dunno. Copy the SNP, somehow? The SNP's patriotism works because it has successfully otherised the English. The Scots are proud and plucky but oppressed, we must throw off the colonial yoke, all that bullshit. It is the patriotism of grievance, and the underdog.
Labour needs to find someone who is theoretically oppressing England, and then theatrically hate them. China?
It's a strange sort of contempt for the working class that puts forward a policy platform geared specifically to their economic interests. But, ok, if some patriotic symbolism is required to get a hearing in the seats they need to win to have a chance at the next election, that's fine by me. No problem with it. I also have no problem with the left of the party keeping Starmer honest. I wouldn't want to see flaggery seeping into rhetoric and policies.
As an aside, there doesn't seem to be much discussion on here about the Representative from Georgia's 14th District.
Does she have a point? Did the Jews organise the forest fires in the US by using space lasers?
I'm fairly certain that if there was a "Jewish space laser" job number one would be making some very precise holes in Iranian mountainsides, not starting forest fires in California in order to facilitate the construction of a railway.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
The issue is that this thinktank has correctly identified a major problem for Labour - it is perceived as being anti-patriotic, and as contemptuous of its ex-core-vote: the white working class. For the very good reason that it IS.
However, the same thinktank has failed to find any kind of solution. The idea you can magic this away with a few flags or "veterans at party rallies" (really?) is painfully simplistic. It will just look cringe.
What can Labour do? Dunno. Copy the SNP, somehow? The SNP's patriotism works because it has successfully otherised the English. The Scots are proud and plucky but oppressed, we must throw off the colonial yoke, all that bullshit. It is the patriotism of grievance, and the underdog.
Labour needs to find someone who is theoretically oppressing England, and then theatrically hate them. China?
It's a strange sort of contempt for the working class that puts forward a policy platform geared specifically to their economic interests. But, ok, if some patriotic symbolism is required to get a hearing in the seats they need to win to have a chance at the next election, that's fine by me. No problem with it. I also have no problem with the left of the party keeping Starmer honest. I wouldn't want to see flaggery seeping into rhetoric and policies.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
Did you clap last night at 6pm?
I didn't.
But then I'm a monster as I didn't clap for carers either.
Why oh why do you hate this country?
I was actually soaking in the bath (tmi, apols) with a Sea Arch & tonic (also tmi for this boozy crowd).
Where we live, only the birds would hear us clapping.
We had a Sainsbury's delivery that arrived at 5.45pm which we still sorting out.
I never understood the public displays following the death of Princess Diana.
I dread to think the reaction of this country when her Majesty moves on, it will make the three year mourning for Kim Il-sung look understated.
The reaction to HMQ going will be several orders of magnitude different from what was experienced in 1997.
Bar a few Republicans trying hard to ignore it, the whole country will stop for a couple of weeks. It will be the world's biggest news story of the year. My Mum is 74 now, she was five when the Queen ascended to the throne. The vast majority of the country don't know anything other than the Queen.
Yeah. I wonder how many who support the Monarchy actually support HMQ? Whatever. Her passing will be a psychic shock. Try singing "God Save the King". It isn't easy to do. It will take some adjustment.
Would it be easier all round if we made charles wear a dress and self identify as female?
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
Did you clap last night at 6pm?
I didn't.
But then I'm a monster as I didn't clap for carers either.
Why oh why do you hate this country?
I was actually soaking in the bath (tmi, apols) with a Sea Arch & tonic (also tmi for this boozy crowd).
Where we live, only the birds would hear us clapping.
We had a Sainsbury's delivery that arrived at 5.45pm which we still sorting out.
I never understood the public displays following the death of Princess Diana.
I dread to think the reaction of this country when her Majesty moves on, it will make the three year mourning for Kim Il-sung look understated.
The reaction to HMQ going will be several orders of magnitude different from what was experienced in 1997.
Bar a few Republicans trying hard to ignore it, the whole country will stop for a couple of weeks. It will be the world's biggest news story of the year. My Mum is 74 now, she was five when the Queen ascended to the throne. The vast majority of the country don't know anything other than the Queen.
Yeah. I wonder how many who support the Monarchy actually support HMQ? Whatever. Her passing will be a psychic shock. Try singing "God Save the King". It isn't easy to do. It will take some adjustment.
It was easy enough to make the change in 1952 though
Apologies in advance, but you've inadvertently triggered me
The thing that bugged me (other than some of the obvious, much of which covered in the video, it was fun enough) was the weirdness around all the black toffs. I'm not bothered that many in the cast were black - not really bothered by the ethnicity of a character, completely fine with Dev Patel as Copperfield, for example, I'm cool with a black, Asian or female Bond. After finding the unexplained preponderance of black toffs in the first episode a bit jarring, I got used to it. The fact that they were black went unremarked and I decided it was simply being ignored. Fine. Afterall, who cares, although the lack of Asian toffs did seem odd. But then in one episode there's a conversation between two major (black) characters in which one warns the other that their newfound elevation (thanks to the Queen, apparently, in Bridgerton-land) is not certain to continue, tackling head on - in an implausible way - the large number of black upper classes.
So, why not: (i) Just have people of all ethnic groups scattered throughout the cast and ignore it (as stated, I don't care and it wasn't the only unrealistic thing). It becomes completely unimportant. or (ii) Remove the setting from Georgian London and shove it in some fictional kingdom, Bridgerton-land where ethnic mixing went unremarked, even hundreds of years ago. You can keep the sub-plot of a queen struggling with her husbands mental health issues and the subjugation of women.
PS: Does this make me un-woke? Asleep?
I think including a single line explanation made it far weirder than not explaining it, as it invites so many more questions.
Remarkable acceptance of such a change in a short time.
I believe the vaccine can't be given to those who are already infected, can it? So surely that's exactly what we should expect.
Not sure what you want? Them to jab people who are already ill with Covid and who have refused consent?
I think you wouldn't want to send a vaccination team into a care home with an outbreak, since you'd them have to put that team into isolation and they wouldn't be able to inject people for two weeks.
So there are reasons why not every care home resident will be vaccinated and, because infection rates are higher in England, that will mean fewer will have been vaccinated, even if every possible vaccination has been given.
However, the government should have a figure for how many vaccinations of care home residents have been given and of how many care home residents there are, and so be able to provide the proportion of one of the other.
That it is unwilling to provide this number is not good.
Not really. If all who can be vaccinated have been then it is finished for now.
If people are refusing vaccines they can't be vaccinated against their will - and quoting them then as not vaccinated is misleading if you're reporting progress in getting through the age groups.
We want to see how many people have been vaccinated so that we have an idea of how successful the vaccination campaign has been, and how close to vaccine-acquired herd immunity we are.
We want these numbers for subgroups because we are vaccinating by subgroups. It doesn't have to do with whether the next groups on the list should be vaccinated.
If there are large numbers of people who have refused the vaccine we need to know that. If there are large numbers of care homes that remain to have vaccinations because of outbreaks we need to know that.
HMG should not be hiding these numbers.
It is quite interesting to see what is being... not said.
The other thing is that these are all ages, so if Black British population is disproportionately younger, then a lower % of them will have been vaccinated. Doesn't tell you much. Split by age and you run in to small numbers. More/fewer vaccinated - do they have more/fewer of the eligible conditions. Could do it by priority group and ethnic group, I guess, but still the problem from above.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
That could hold some water if we had any idea at all about Labour's plans for the big, intractable problems and issues, but we don't. We don't even know if SKS means by the word 'fair' equalisation of opportunity or of outcomes. Nor do we know what he wants to do with UK outside the EU. Or debt. Or deficit. Or anything else.
Nicola manages to be centre left and fly the flag and be proudly Scottish. It isn't that hard.
It is quite hard, if your country is seen as an alpha nation, a victor and a conqueror: a nation that vanquished the world, creating the biggest empire in history, and, by the by, making sure everyone on the planet had to learn its language.
That's England. Waving a flag in that context can be seen as vulgar gloating, at best, and as brutishly racist (the Empire) at worst.
Despite the fact that Scotland happily joined England's empire, and did much of the imperialising, and is represented in the Union Jack as it is in the Commons, Sturgeon et al have managed to create a new Irish-like Scotland that had very little to do with the Empire, a poor wee valiant Scotland that has just been abused by big nasty England: therefore waving the flag is a lusty act of rebellion, a cry of defiance, William Wallace in a kilt on a horse, all that tartan shite
To wave a flag without guilt, as a lefty, your country needs to be a loser, in some form.
The French flag works because it is the flag of the republic, the little people, after the Revolution, NOT the ancien regime
When you say "happily", wouldn't it be more appropriate to say ", as a result of managing to go bust putting the entire country's wealth in the 18th Century equivalent of Gamestop,"?
To be clear there is nothing wrong with arguing against this or any other header. Absolutely not, I dont agree with the tone of it myself, although it does make some good points and gets us to reflect.
The issue is the hysterical response, threats to leave the site and criticising the author rather than the merits or not of the argument.
I agree that posting a threat to leave the site is just dumb.
If you want to leave the site, you can just leave it ... quietly. You won't be missed. No need to post, just go.
None of us would be missed, if we were to stop posting.
OTH, criticising Meeks is perfectly fine. He doles it out aplenty, so he can take it.
The thread header writers are not red squirrels. They are not an endangered species needing protection.
I slightly disagree, there are some on here whose opinions I value very much indeed. Its good to have different view points made, and often made very well indeed. So much better than echo chambers of social media. I would miss some of you...
Who has threatened to leave the site? Just wondering.
Don't think it was a regular poster
Just someody who said he had been here 15 years. Mostly lurking I guess. But then, I wonder how more lurkers we lose to the relentless Boris bashing?
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
Did you clap last night at 6pm?
I didn't.
But then I'm a monster as I didn't clap for carers either.
Why oh why do you hate this country?
I was actually soaking in the bath (tmi, apols) with a Sea Arch & tonic (also tmi for this boozy crowd).
Where we live, only the birds would hear us clapping.
We had a Sainsbury's delivery that arrived at 5.45pm which we still sorting out.
I never understood the public displays following the death of Princess Diana.
I dread to think the reaction of this country when her Majesty moves on, it will make the three year mourning for Kim Il-sung look understated.
The reaction to HMQ going will be several orders of magnitude different from what was experienced in 1997.
Bar a few Republicans trying hard to ignore it, the whole country will stop for a couple of weeks. It will be the world's biggest news story of the year. My Mum is 74 now, she was five when the Queen ascended to the throne. The vast majority of the country don't know anything other than the Queen.
Yeah. I wonder how many who support the Monarchy actually support HMQ? Whatever. Her passing will be a psychic shock. Try singing "God Save the King". It isn't easy to do. It will take some adjustment.
There will be a hit. And I expect places which have political consensus on getting rid of the monarchy who still haven't done so, like Jamaica, will get around to it at last.
But here I dont think it will change as much as some think. Charles is a fixture, less respected but not as disliked as some times in the past, and if he keeps schtum he will be fine.
As an aside, there doesn't seem to be much discussion on here about the Representative from Georgia's 14th District.
Does she have a point? Did the Jews organise the forest fires in the US by using space lasers?
Been watching too many Bond films. I also suggest that if the Jews had that kind of ability there is a fairly significant proportion of the world that would be in flames before the American mid west.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
Why would you want to 'transform' a place if you genuinely love it? 'I love you so much, I've booked a complete transformation including some radical surgery for you, my darling' may not be the world's most winning message for Valentine's Day...
Because when you love somebody - really love them - you want the very best for their future. Thus it is with the Left and the white working class of England. We want them to be wealthier, have more opportunities to realize their potential in life, generally have a fairer crack of the whip. The Right, OTOH, want them distracted by flags and obsessing about borders and foreigners.
Apologies in advance, but you've inadvertently triggered me
The thing that bugged me (other than some of the obvious, much of which covered in the video, it was fun enough) was the weirdness around all the black toffs. I'm not bothered that many in the cast were black - not really bothered by the ethnicity of a character, completely fine with Dev Patel as Copperfield, for example, I'm cool with a black, Asian or female Bond. After finding the unexplained preponderance of black toffs in the first episode a bit jarring, I got used to it. The fact that they were black went unremarked and I decided it was simply being ignored. Fine. Afterall, who cares, although the lack of Asian toffs did seem odd. But then in one episode there's a conversation between two major (black) characters in which one warns the other that their newfound elevation (thanks to the Queen, apparently, in Bridgerton-land) is not certain to continue, tackling head on - in an implausible way - the large number of black upper classes.
So, why not: (i) Just have people of all ethnic groups scattered throughout the cast and ignore it (as stated, I don't care and it wasn't the only unrealistic thing). It becomes completely unimportant. or (ii) Remove the setting from Georgian London and shove it in some fictional kingdom, Bridgerton-land where ethnic mixing went unremarked, even hundreds of years ago. You can keep the sub-plot of a queen struggling with her husbands mental health issues and the subjugation of women.
PS: Does this make me un-woke? Asleep?
I think including a single line explanation made it far weirder than not explaining it, as it invites so many more questions.
Remarkable acceptance of such a change in a short time.
It was a good fun show, I'm a fan.
Turns out all we needed in the 50s was for Lizzie to tell everyone it was all cool and ennoble a decent share of the Windrush immigrants and racism would have disappeared overnight
Catastrophic decision making is a feature of this government
That's all great as far as it goes but
(1) anyone who thought that you could become a third country with regard to the EU without NTBs isn't really up with reality and (2) a lot of the critics are emulating the DUP by opposing everything and proposing nothing serious and precise about what is better. Which decisions. What improvements. How implemented.
BTW yes, we have been told untruths by government.
EEA says Hi!
Yes, the number of Remainers and gradualist Leavers who in truth would be comfortable with 'Norway for Now' means it was a massive missed opportunity.
Can one be in both the EEA and the CPTPP by some means?
I think it's a theoretical yes to that question, from reading some of the earlier TPP documents, but it would have to be considered by the application of the first EEA country to the CP-TPP.
EEA Members are not in the EU Customs Union, so in theory are free to make trade deals.
Anyway, why isn’t everyone asking what is happening to Liverpool this season
They haven't been the same, since they closed the stadia and started playing behind closed doors.
Some very weird football results this season and the end of last, didn't someone (@isam?) work out that the notion of home advantage had actually turned slightly negative without crowds present?
There was never an atmosphere in the Olympic Stadium, so West Ham have been perfectly adapted to playing in the Covid environment.
Liverpool struggling is not newsworthy, that’s normal. It was last year that was unusual.
Ha, I was going to make a dig about Arsenal and West Ham not having to worry about the atmosphere too much (and poor Spurs haven't seen more than a dozen crowds at their new place) but thought better of it.
Liverpool had been building up to last year for a while, but definitely seem to have lost their way a little now they've got the trophy in the cabinet.
Liverpool's injury list is ridiculously bad, I would have thought that was almost entirely the reason they have struggled so much. Their best three Centre Backs are out long term, Henderson & the now injured Fabinho have had to drop back making the midfield weaker, the keeper has not been ever present, neither have Mane or Salah
But yeah, playing behind closed doors when you are used to a crowd as vociferous as Liverpool's must have an effect too.
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
That could hold some water if we had any idea at all about Labour's plans for the big, intractable problems and issues, but we don't. We don't even know if SKS means by the word 'fair' equalisation of opportunity or of outcomes. Nor do we know what he wants to do with UK outside the EU. Or debt. Or deficit. Or anything else.
Nicola manages to be centre left and fly the flag and be proudly Scottish. It isn't that hard.
It is quite hard, if your country is seen as an alpha nation, a victor and a conqueror: a nation that vanquished the world, creating the biggest empire in history, and, by the by, making sure everyone on the planet had to learn its language.
That's England. Waving a flag in that context can be seen as vulgar gloating, at best, and as brutishly racist (the Empire) at worst.
Despite the fact that Scotland happily joined England's empire, and did much of the imperialising, and is represented in the Union Jack as it is in the Commons, Sturgeon et al have managed to create a new Irish-like Scotland that had very little to do with the Empire, a poor wee valiant Scotland that has just been abused by big nasty England: therefore waving the flag is a lusty act of rebellion, a cry of defiance, William Wallace in a kilt on a horse, all that tartan shite
To wave a flag without guilt, as a lefty, your country needs to be a loser, in some form.
The French flag works because it is the flag of the republic, the little people, after the Revolution, NOT the ancien regime
When you say "happily", wouldn't it be more appropriate to say ", as a result of managing to go bust putting the entire country's wealth in the 18th Century equivalent of Gamestop,"?
To be clear there is nothing wrong with arguing against this or any other header. Absolutely not, I dont agree with the tone of it myself, although it does make some good points and gets us to reflect.
The issue is the hysterical response, threats to leave the site and criticising the author rather than the merits or not of the argument.
I agree that posting a threat to leave the site is just dumb.
If you want to leave the site, you can just leave it ... quietly. You won't be missed. No need to post, just go.
None of us would be missed, if we were to stop posting.
OTH, criticising Meeks is perfectly fine. He doles it out aplenty, so he can take it.
The thread header writers are not red squirrels. They are not an endangered species needing protection.
I slightly disagree, there are some on here whose opinions I value very much indeed. Its good to have different view points made, and often made very well indeed. So much better than echo chambers of social media. I would miss some of you...
Who has threatened to leave the site? Just wondering.
Don't think it was a regular poster
Just someody who said he had been here 15 years. Mostly lurking I guess. But then, I wonder how more lurkers we lose to the relentless Boris bashing?
Yes think thats what he said but then lurkers also drive ad revenue for Mike.
Interestingly you make a good argument for why to call the pm Boris Johnson bashing could be misconstrued so easily
Don't they even do some basic sense-checking of what they write any more?
Yes, if vaccinations continue at the current rate, it might take years for some Western countries to do everyone - but we are 100% certain that the current vaccination rates are not going to continue.
A typically one eyed article from Mr Meeks. Very quick on the mark with 108000 deaths and desperatly quick to bring in soldiers deaths. But... Pro rata Portugal's death toll would be 80,000. Its health service is effectively collapsing, and running out oxygen. Belgium's toll would be 120,000.
By hey Mr Meeks, you carry on with your shroud waving numbers and misrepresent the country and the govt. Its a pandemic Mr Meeks. It does not stick to rules (a bit like reckless hedonistic youths). And its mutating. Go ahead and nitpick and second guess to fit your prejudice.
This govt has certainly not done any worse, except possibly by those countries who are happy to be subservient to rigid orders. And of course the EU fall down at the first hurdle.
And at the deep fundamental level our govt has led the world with a way to get out of this pandemic.
Not that you would guess from the usual nonsense from Mr Meeks. If you dont have anything worthwhile to say Mr Meeks just don't bother saying it.
With all due respect, when you have to search so hard to find people worse hit, you have to recognise that - until recently - we haven't done very well.
Indeed, for 2020, we managed the double of worst death rate and biggest drop in economic activity (of major countries).
Fortunately, we (and by "we", I mean "Kate Bingham") got one things absolutely right: our vaccine policy. We are going to be first of large countries to reach something like full vaccination. At some point, probably at the beginning of Q2, we will effectively have CV19 behind us, and we will be well ahead of anywhere else.
So, two cheers for the vaccine success; but let's not pretend we did great before then.
We should be wary of drawing conclusions whilst the fog of the war against the virus persists. For instance this https://ukandeu.ac.uk/is-economic-output-an-accurate-measure-of-the-covid-19-impact/ points out the difficulties of comparing GDP impacts of COVID and makes a good point that the UK GDP figures are lower due to differences in accounting for output. The biggest drop in output statement may not stand up to scrutiny.
Can anyone fill me in on what the actual figure for vaccinated care home residents in England is. It seems to a percentage of an ever decreasing pie.
No one knows but it's not important is the line I think.
On a side note, those who were pleasuring themselves stupid over Zahawi as next PM should have a long hard look at themselves after today's performance.
To be clear there is nothing wrong with arguing against this or any other header. Absolutely not, I dont agree with the tone of it myself, although it does make some good points and gets us to reflect.
The issue is the hysterical response, threats to leave the site and criticising the author rather than the merits or not of the argument.
I agree that posting a threat to leave the site is just dumb.
If you want to leave the site, you can just leave it ... quietly. You won't be missed. No need to post, just go.
None of us would be missed, if we were to stop posting.
OTH, criticising Meeks is perfectly fine. He doles it out aplenty, so he can take it.
The thread header writers are not red squirrels. They are not an endangered species needing protection.
I slightly disagree, there are some on here whose opinions I value very much indeed. Its good to have different view points made, and often made very well indeed. So much better than echo chambers of social media. I would miss some of you...
Who has threatened to leave the site? Just wondering.
Don't think it was a regular poster
Just someody who said he had been here 15 years. Mostly lurking I guess. But then, I wonder how more lurkers we lose to the relentless Boris bashing?
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
Did you clap last night at 6pm?
I didn't.
But then I'm a monster as I didn't clap for carers either.
Why oh why do you hate this country?
I was actually soaking in the bath (tmi, apols) with a Sea Arch & tonic (also tmi for this boozy crowd).
Where we live, only the birds would hear us clapping.
We had a Sainsbury's delivery that arrived at 5.45pm which we still sorting out.
I never understood the public displays following the death of Princess Diana.
I dread to think the reaction of this country when her Majesty moves on, it will make the three year mourning for Kim Il-sung look understated.
The reaction to HMQ going will be several orders of magnitude different from what was experienced in 1997.
Bar a few Republicans trying hard to ignore it, the whole country will stop for a couple of weeks. It will be the world's biggest news story of the year. My Mum is 74 now, she was five when the Queen ascended to the throne. The vast majority of the country don't know anything other than the Queen.
I know this is different but...
I was on holiday in the Lakes when the Queen Mother died (at some very advanced age). Arriving back to the farm we were staying at, the landlady stopped us in the hall and broke the news. She was very upset. None of us gave a fig (all mid twenties, three of the four from NZ), and we did not know how to react...
I think for some when her maj 'retires' it will be huge (for Charles definitely - nods to Private Eye). For many others not so much. But the media will go mad.
To be clear there is nothing wrong with arguing against this or any other header. Absolutely not, I dont agree with the tone of it myself, although it does make some good points and gets us to reflect.
The issue is the hysterical response, threats to leave the site and criticising the author rather than the merits or not of the argument.
I agree that posting a threat to leave the site is just dumb.
If you want to leave the site, you can just leave it ... quietly. You won't be missed. No need to post, just go.
None of us would be missed, if we were to stop posting.
OTH, criticising Meeks is perfectly fine. He doles it out aplenty, so he can take it.
The thread header writers are not red squirrels. They are not an endangered species needing protection.
I slightly disagree, there are some on here whose opinions I value very much indeed. Its good to have different view points made, and often made very well indeed. So much better than echo chambers of social media. I would miss some of you...
Who has threatened to leave the site? Just wondering.
Don't think it was a regular poster
Just someody who said he had been here 15 years. Mostly lurking I guess. But then, I wonder how more lurkers we lose to the relentless Boris bashing?
If they make 7 posts in 15 years, who cares?
They MIGHT have checked in four times a day for 15 years.
They MIGHT have done a recent lost-password name change.
They MIGHT have made the 7 best posts on pb. (Their last on has certainly provoked debate....)
But if patriotism and the flag need 'defending' by Labour against their own they have a problem that moderate working class voters can't solve for them. Until it is automatic and axiomatic that that is where they stand they will struggle to get a voice among the 40% Tiory votes - that's the ones they need.
Does the centre left SNP have a problem with Scottish Patriotism and Scottish flag? Look at the polls and work it out.
The fear is that the notion of transforming Britain is taking a back seat to virtue signalling about loving Britain.
Why would you want to 'transform' a place if you genuinely love it? 'I love you so much, I've booked a complete transformation including some radical surgery for you, my darling' may not be the world's most winning message for Valentine's Day...
Because when you love somebody - really love them - you want the very best for their future. Thus it is with the Left and the white working class of England. We want them to be wealthier, have more opportunities to realize their potential in life, generally have a fairer crack of the whip. The Right, OTOH, want them distracted by flags and obsessing about borders and foreigners.
Whilst that is, I'm sure, tremendously well intentioned.
1) Don't you think it can also a wee bit patronising? 'realise their potential in life' smacks of an over keen young graduate who has taken on the careers advisor role in a school with great gusto 2) Does it also tally with mass unchecked worker competition/immigration from Europe that the left have been cheering on for decades?
Comments
But then I'm a monster as I didn't clap for carers either.
A far more recent and swift descent. A plunge really. Quite dizzying.
I guessing ol' Jeff doesn't realise it is the hundredth anniversary of the Anglo-Irish treaty this year.
https://twitter.com/AmandaFBelfast/status/1356675926378106889
I was actually soaking in the bath (tmi, apols) with a Sea Arch & tonic (also tmi for this boozy crowd).
For example, look what happened to SeanT, the poster with the permanent erection.
Did we miss him when he stopped posting?
There is always another Priapus.
My daughters live on social media. It is interesting talking with them - it's almost a process of landing back in the UK. Where medicine is quite definitely and firmly socialised. Or should I say socialised? And the police, while having problems with racism*, do not kill a large number of people for being black on weekly basis.
*I introduced them to Constable Savage, via Youtube, then we talked about racism in the UK police.
My God. It was like being in a white Pretoria pub in about 1956.
On the other hand, the levels of drunkenness, child abuse, drugtaking, violence, general crime, in and from aboriginal communities don't exactly help. White Australia is very generous in its support of these desperate people. Yet almost nothing seems to work.
Very sad.
What Labour might be is an internationalist party in a national populist age. If so, this is fine by me.
We had a Sainsbury's delivery last night that arrived at 5.45pm which we were still sorting out.
I never understood the public displays following the death of Princess Diana.
I dread to think the reaction of this country when her Majesty moves on, it will make the three year mourning for Kim Il-sung look understated.
Nicola manages to be centre left and fly the flag and be proudly Scottish. It isn't that hard.
If you like flags, fine, if you don't, also fine.
Who the F cares?
Inane, banal 'debate'.
Again.
Indeed, for 2020, we managed the double of worst death rate and biggest drop in economic activity (of major countries).
Fortunately, we (and by "we", I mean "Kate Bingham") got one things absolutely right: our vaccine policy. We are going to be first of large countries to reach something like full vaccination. At some point, probably at the beginning of Q2, we will effectively have CV19 behind us, and we will be well ahead of anywhere else.
So, two cheers for the vaccine success; but let's not pretend we did great before then.
Bar a few Republicans trying hard to ignore it, the whole country will stop for a couple of weeks. It will be the world's biggest news story of the year. My Mum is 74 now, she was five when the Queen ascended to the throne. The vast majority of the country don't know anything other than the Queen.
It really is one of the dullest esoteric discussions we've had to endure for a while –– perhaps a good sign that things are slowly returning to normal!
There are exceptions. There is a house on the Perth dual carriageway which rotates both the Union Jack and the Saltire on their flag pole but it is getting rarer. I think that the Democrats would be unwise to give up their claim to the Stars and Stripes in the US.
That's England. Waving a flag in that context can be seen as vulgar gloating, at best, and as brutishly racist (the Empire) at worst.
Despite the fact that Scotland happily joined England's empire, and did much of the imperialising, and is represented in the Union Jack as it is in the Commons, Sturgeon et al have managed to create a new Irish-like Scotland that had very little to do with the Empire, a poor wee valiant Scotland that has just been abused by big nasty England: therefore waving the flag is a lusty act of rebellion, a cry of defiance, William Wallace in a kilt on a horse, all that tartan shite
To wave a flag without guilt, as a lefty, your country needs to be a loser, in some form.
The French flag works because it is the flag of the republic, the little people, after the Revolution, NOT the ancien regime
I met a man who wasn't Sean
He wasn't Sean again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away
Does she have a point? Did the Jews organise the forest fires in the US by using space lasers?
Election Maps UK
@ElectionMapsUK
·
18h
Westminster Voting Intention:
CON: 43% (+4)
LAB: 37% (=)
LDM: 5% (-2)
SNP: 5% (=)
GRN: 5% (=)
REF: 3% (-1)
Via
@NCPoliticsUK
, 25 Jan - 1 Feb
Changes w/ 20-28 Nov.
For the purposes of clarity, I am not this "Sean" dude. If I only I were: a handsome, virile, wealthy international thriller writer. Sounds like fun.
But even if I were Sean - which I am not - I have not threatened to leave the site.
So in all ways your comment is just..... odd.
I was referring more to the 19th century, when the Scots definitely joined in the whole Rule the Entire World thing with great gusto.
Whatever. Her passing will be a psychic shock.
Try singing "God Save the King". It isn't easy to do. It will take some adjustment.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-04/u-s-israel-years-ahead-of-europe-in-early-race-for-covid-shots
Remarkable acceptance of such a change in a short time.
It was a good fun show, I'm a fan.
But here I dont think it will change as much as some think. Charles is a fixture, less respected but not as disliked as some times in the past, and if he keeps schtum he will be fine.
I'm guessing no.
EEA Members are not in the EU Customs Union, so in theory are free to make trade deals.
But yeah, playing behind closed doors when you are used to a crowd as vociferous as Liverpool's must have an effect too.
Interestingly you make a good argument for why to call the pm Boris
Johnson bashing could be misconstrued so easily
Even nuttier than his brother
Space mirrors and the reflection from Donny Osmond's teeth.
Yes, if vaccinations continue at the current rate, it might take years for some Western countries to do everyone - but we are 100% certain that the current vaccination rates are not going to continue.
https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1357297529835171842?s=20
On a side note, those who were pleasuring themselves stupid over Zahawi as next PM should have a long hard look at themselves after today's performance.
God in the old testament does seem rather more active in dealing with things he likes / dislikes.
And clearly God also likes trains.
https://twitter.com/KieranPAndrews/status/1357254945897078785?s=20
We've finished.
Unless you have a photo of the Swedish or Serbian Head of Govt doing a Presser without an EU flag at the back.
I was on holiday in the Lakes when the Queen Mother died (at some very advanced age). Arriving back to the farm we were staying at, the landlady stopped us in the hall and broke the news. She was very upset. None of us gave a fig (all mid twenties, three of the four from NZ), and we did not know how to react...
I think for some when her maj 'retires' it will be huge (for Charles definitely - nods to Private Eye). For many others not so much. But the media will go mad.
Bodes well.
https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1357332883594219523
https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1357332881857597446
They MIGHT have done a recent lost-password name change.
They MIGHT have made the 7 best posts on pb. (Their last on has certainly provoked debate....)
1) Don't you think it can also a wee bit patronising? 'realise their potential in life' smacks of an over keen young graduate who has taken on the careers advisor role in a school with great gusto
2) Does it also tally with mass unchecked worker competition/immigration from Europe that the left have been cheering on for decades?
Dave the Rave is trying to work out how to stop English being the lingua franca:
https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1357332868704337922
as (presumably) is Napoleon:
https://twitter.com/wblau/status/1324287909021786113