Thing I can't understand: we spend ages telling our elderly parents (at least, I do) not to click on random links to random websites, but to check it's actually legitimate, e.g. in this case an nhs.uk address. The above does take you through to an nhs.uk website, but the clickable link, labelled mygp.me? Any shyster could have set that up. We know there are Covid vaccination scams doing the rounds. What's wrong with jab.nhs.uk or similar if you want a short, snappy link?
It's really desperate stuff coming out of the EU. Beyond unacceptable.
There appear to be no sane voices left over there able to say "Serioulsy guys - you are looking profoundly foolish. Each utterance is proving so counter-productive. STFU."
I know you are a professional environmentalist. Has your second paragraph been recycled? It could easily have been written about any number of PB Brexiteers towards the end of last year. If so, good work!
I just think Europe these days is missing the people of the stature of a Brandt or a Chirac, who could "have a quiet word" in the situation the EU big-wigs have faced this past week.
A very fair comment. Francois Mitterrand and Helmut Schmidt also spring to mind.
True, but perhaps not unique to the other side of the Channel. Which elder statesman would parties or partisans in the UK listen to with respect?
A good question. Looking back at previous Prime Ministers, maybe Brown and Major, certainly not Blair or Cameron, both of whom have enormous credibility questions to answer. Although I have noticed since the demise of Corbyn, Blair's reputation seems to be undergoing a very minor revival.
Of Leaders of the Opposition, perhaps Hague, Howard or even Milliband. Although Howard was not my cup of tea, as a moderate Brexiteer, maybe he cuts through to both sides of the divide more than others.
Hague's a good spot. Ed M is arguably following in his footsteps- hopeless leaders at wrong times, but both had/have more to give. Howard can cut through- heck, he tried over the IM Bill. Didn't work though, which illustrates the problem. My hunch is that the political machine is so good at shredding reputations now that the current generation can ignore the warnings of their elders.
If you want to cut off any previous PM, it's too easy; Major: Black Wednesday Blair: Iraq Brown: Gold Cameron: Referendum May: (where to begin?) It's too easy, and saves you the trouble of thinking whether their warnings carry any weight.
Which is another argument for having someone whose entire job is to whisper in the PM's ear "remember you too are mortal."
You could be right, although Black Wednesday was a long time ago, and no one except PB Historians remember Brown swapping the gold reserves for magic beans.
I was looking at Heseltine, Clarke and Patton, but dismissed them all as Brexit (not Brexiteer!) bad guys. So in today's climate I struggle to find a name that makes the cut.
As to your "remember you too are mortal" , it happened to Thatcher, but Johnson (and I don't understand how he does it) seems to defy gravity.
I don't know. Why don't you ask him. He's on Twitter. Must be authoritative.
In this case, he is quite authoritative. See his Twitter bio
"Consultant Geriatrician Tameside & Glossop, Former NHS National Clinical Director|Clinical Advisor Manchester & London|Leader"
Dismissing an opinion, just because it is worrying, or "on Twitter", is daft
Some care home workers have declined to be jabbed.
Isn't the vaccine meant to prevent serious infection, rather than any infection?
The whole point is that people do not pass away or need to be hospitalised.
I'd love some more details on whether these outbreaks are in care homes that have had 100% of the staff jabbed - or conversely, if a material number have refused it.
Whatever side of the debate you are on, some of the reporting in the MSM is a complete disgrace. Some of the very good news on transmissability is being completely ignored in favour of fear porn. Some of it spread about SAGE members. Or independent SAGE members.
"Independent SAGE" are a disgrace. Nothing to do with SAGE and instead extremists with an agenda to push.
A colleague was invited to join Independent SAGE (he thinks someone he worked with on a paper a while back misinterpreted him having a whinge about lockdown policies). Fair to say he wasn't tempted, just a bit nonplussed, not even his field really. He commented that "Independent SAGE is to SAGE as alternative medicine is to medicine".
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
It's really desperate stuff coming out of the EU. Beyond unacceptable.
There appear to be no sane voices left over there able to say "Serioulsy guys - you are looking profoundly foolish. Each utterance is proving so counter-productive. STFU."
I know you are a professional environmentalist. Has your second paragraph been recycled? It could easily have been written about any number of PB Brexiteers towards the end of last year. If so, good work!
I just think Europe these days is missing the people of the stature of a Brandt or a Chirac, who could "have a quiet word" in the situation the EU big-wigs have faced this past week.
A very fair comment. Francois Mitterrand and Helmut Schmidt also spring to mind.
True, but perhaps not unique to the other side of the Channel. Which elder statesman would parties or partisans in the UK listen to with respect?
A good question. Looking back at previous Prime Ministers, maybe Brown and Major, certainly not Blair or Cameron, both of whom have enormous credibility questions to answer. Although I have noticed since the demise of Corbyn, Blair's reputation seems to be undergoing a very minor revival.
Of Leaders of the Opposition, perhaps Hague, Howard or even Milliband. Although Howard was not my cup of tea, as a moderate Brexiteer, maybe he cuts through to both sides of the divide more than others.
Hague's a good spot. Ed M is arguably following in his footsteps- hopeless leaders at wrong times, but both had/have more to give. Howard can cut through- heck, he tried over the IM Bill. Didn't work though, which illustrates the problem. My hunch is that the political machine is so good at shredding reputations now that the current generation can ignore the warnings of their elders.
If you want to cut off any previous PM, it's too easy; Major: Black Wednesday Blair: Iraq Brown: Gold Cameron: Referendum May: (where to begin?) It's too easy, and saves you the trouble of thinking whether their warnings carry any weight.
Which is another argument for having someone whose entire job is to whisper in the PM's ear "remember you too are mortal."
You could be right, although Black Wednesday was a long time ago, and no one except PB Historians remember Brown swapping the gold reserves for magic beans.
I was looking at Heseltine, Clarke and Patton, but dismissed them all as Brexit (not Brexiteer!) bad guys. So in today's climate I struggle to find a name that makes the cut.
As to your "remember you too are mortal" , it happened to Thatcher, but Johnson (and I don't understand how he does it) seems to defy gravity.
With Brown it was either the election that never was, or Gillian Duffy. Take your pick.
It's really desperate stuff coming out of the EU. Beyond unacceptable.
There appear to be no sane voices left over there able to say "Serioulsy guys - you are looking profoundly foolish. Each utterance is proving so counter-productive. STFU."
I know you are a professional environmentalist. Has your second paragraph been recycled? It could easily have been written about any number of PB Brexiteers towards the end of last year. If so, good work!
I just think Europe these days is missing the people of the stature of a Brandt or a Chirac, who could "have a quiet word" in the situation the EU big-wigs have faced this past week.
A very fair comment. Francois Mitterrand and Helmut Schmidt also spring to mind.
True, but perhaps not unique to the other side of the Channel. Which elder statesman would parties or partisans in the UK listen to with respect?
A good question. Looking back at previous Prime Ministers, maybe Brown and Major, certainly not Blair or Cameron, both of whom have enormous credibility questions to answer. Although I have noticed since the demise of Corbyn, Blair's reputation seems to be undergoing a very minor revival.
Of Leaders of the Opposition, perhaps Hague, Howard or even Milliband. Although Howard was not my cup of tea, as a moderate Brexiteer, maybe he cuts through to both sides of the divide more than others.
Hague's a good spot. Ed M is arguably following in his footsteps- hopeless leaders at wrong times, but both had/have more to give. Howard can cut through- heck, he tried over the IM Bill. Didn't work though, which illustrates the problem. My hunch is that the political machine is so good at shredding reputations now that the current generation can ignore the warnings of their elders.
If you want to cut off any previous PM, it's too easy; Major: Black Wednesday Blair: Iraq Brown: Gold Cameron: Referendum May: (where to begin?) It's too easy, and saves you the trouble of thinking whether their warnings carry any weight.
Which is another argument for having someone whose entire job is to whisper in the PM's ear "remember you too are mortal."
You could be right, although Black Wednesday was a long time ago, and no one except PB Historians remember Brown swapping the gold reserves for magic beans.
I was looking at Heseltine, Clarke and Patton, but dismissed them all as Brexit (not Brexiteer!) bad guys. So in today's climate I struggle to find a name that makes the cut.
As to your "remember you too are mortal" , it happened to Thatcher, but Johnson (and I don't understand how he does it) seems to defy gravity.
It's really desperate stuff coming out of the EU. Beyond unacceptable.
There appear to be no sane voices left over there able to say "Serioulsy guys - you are looking profoundly foolish. Each utterance is proving so counter-productive. STFU."
I know you are a professional environmentalist. Has your second paragraph been recycled? It could easily have been written about any number of PB Brexiteers towards the end of last year. If so, good work!
I just think Europe these days is missing the people of the stature of a Brandt or a Chirac, who could "have a quiet word" in the situation the EU big-wigs have faced this past week.
A very fair comment. Francois Mitterrand and Helmut Schmidt also spring to mind.
True, but perhaps not unique to the other side of the Channel. Which elder statesman would parties or partisans in the UK listen to with respect?
A good question. Looking back at previous Prime Ministers, maybe Brown and Major, certainly not Blair or Cameron, both of whom have enormous credibility questions to answer. Although I have noticed since the demise of Corbyn, Blair's reputation seems to be undergoing a very minor revival.
Of Leaders of the Opposition, perhaps Hague, Howard or even Milliband. Although Howard was not my cup of tea, as a moderate Brexiteer, maybe he cuts through to both sides of the divide more than others.
Hague's a good spot. Ed M is arguably following in his footsteps- hopeless leaders at wrong times, but both had/have more to give. Howard can cut through- heck, he tried over the IM Bill. Didn't work though, which illustrates the problem. My hunch is that the political machine is so good at shredding reputations now that the current generation can ignore the warnings of their elders.
If you want to cut off any previous PM, it's too easy; Major: Black Wednesday Blair: Iraq Brown: Gold Cameron: Referendum May: (where to begin?) It's too easy, and saves you the trouble of thinking whether their warnings carry any weight.
Which is another argument for having someone whose entire job is to whisper in the PM's ear "remember you too are mortal."
You could be right, although Black Wednesday was a long time ago, and no one except PB Historians remember Brown swapping the gold reserves for magic beans.
I was looking at Heseltine, Clarke and Patton, but dismissed them all as Brexit (not Brexiteer!) bad guys. So in today's climate I struggle to find a name that makes the cut.
As to your "remember you too are mortal" , it happened to Thatcher, but Johnson (and I don't understand how he does it) seems to defy gravity.
With Brown it was either the election that never was, or Gillian Duffy. Take your pick.
I don't think they were anything more than party politically strategic errors. If Brown has an Archilles heel it is gold.
When do we get to see the spectacular explosion of SN10?
Not sure they even failed better this time around.
I'm actually rather impressed how quickly modern engineers can (often) develop their rockets and sort out the snags. I can't remember quite how many hundreds of A-4s von Braun had to get to before he got predictably to the landing bit - and he didn't have to worry about the last.
It's really desperate stuff coming out of the EU. Beyond unacceptable.
There appear to be no sane voices left over there able to say "Serioulsy guys - you are looking profoundly foolish. Each utterance is proving so counter-productive. STFU."
I know you are a professional environmentalist. Has your second paragraph been recycled? It could easily have been written about any number of PB Brexiteers towards the end of last year. If so, good work!
I just think Europe these days is missing the people of the stature of a Brandt or a Chirac, who could "have a quiet word" in the situation the EU big-wigs have faced this past week.
A very fair comment. Francois Mitterrand and Helmut Schmidt also spring to mind.
True, but perhaps not unique to the other side of the Channel. Which elder statesman would parties or partisans in the UK listen to with respect?
A good question. Looking back at previous Prime Ministers, maybe Brown and Major, certainly not Blair or Cameron, both of whom have enormous credibility questions to answer. Although I have noticed since the demise of Corbyn, Blair's reputation seems to be undergoing a very minor revival.
Of Leaders of the Opposition, perhaps Hague, Howard or even Milliband. Although Howard was not my cup of tea, as a moderate Brexiteer, maybe he cuts through to both sides of the divide more than others.
Hague's a good spot. Ed M is arguably following in his footsteps- hopeless leaders at wrong times, but both had/have more to give. Howard can cut through- heck, he tried over the IM Bill. Didn't work though, which illustrates the problem. My hunch is that the political machine is so good at shredding reputations now that the current generation can ignore the warnings of their elders.
If you want to cut off any previous PM, it's too easy; Major: Black Wednesday Blair: Iraq Brown: Gold Cameron: Referendum May: (where to begin?) It's too easy, and saves you the trouble of thinking whether their warnings carry any weight.
Which is another argument for having someone whose entire job is to whisper in the PM's ear "remember you too are mortal."
You could be right, although Black Wednesday was a long time ago, and no one except PB Historians remember Brown swapping the gold reserves for magic beans.
I was looking at Heseltine, Clarke and Patton, but dismissed them all as Brexit (not Brexiteer!) bad guys. So in today's climate I struggle to find a name that makes the cut.
As to your "remember you too are mortal" , it happened to Thatcher, but Johnson (and I don't understand how he does it) seems to defy gravity.
With Brown it was either the election that never was, or Gillian Duffy. Take your pick.
I don't think they were anything more than party politically strategic errors. If Brown has an Archilles heel it is gold.
It's really desperate stuff coming out of the EU. Beyond unacceptable.
There appear to be no sane voices left over there able to say "Serioulsy guys - you are looking profoundly foolish. Each utterance is proving so counter-productive. STFU."
I know you are a professional environmentalist. Has your second paragraph been recycled? It could easily have been written about any number of PB Brexiteers towards the end of last year. If so, good work!
I just think Europe these days is missing the people of the stature of a Brandt or a Chirac, who could "have a quiet word" in the situation the EU big-wigs have faced this past week.
A very fair comment. Francois Mitterrand and Helmut Schmidt also spring to mind.
True, but perhaps not unique to the other side of the Channel. Which elder statesman would parties or partisans in the UK listen to with respect?
A good question. Looking back at previous Prime Ministers, maybe Brown and Major, certainly not Blair or Cameron, both of whom have enormous credibility questions to answer. Although I have noticed since the demise of Corbyn, Blair's reputation seems to be undergoing a very minor revival.
Of Leaders of the Opposition, perhaps Hague, Howard or even Milliband. Although Howard was not my cup of tea, as a moderate Brexiteer, maybe he cuts through to both sides of the divide more than others.
Hague's a good spot. Ed M is arguably following in his footsteps- hopeless leaders at wrong times, but both had/have more to give. Howard can cut through- heck, he tried over the IM Bill. Didn't work though, which illustrates the problem. My hunch is that the political machine is so good at shredding reputations now that the current generation can ignore the warnings of their elders.
If you want to cut off any previous PM, it's too easy; Major: Black Wednesday Blair: Iraq Brown: Gold Cameron: Referendum May: (where to begin?) It's too easy, and saves you the trouble of thinking whether their warnings carry any weight.
Which is another argument for having someone whose entire job is to whisper in the PM's ear "remember you too are mortal."
You could be right, although Black Wednesday was a long time ago, and no one except PB Historians remember Brown swapping the gold reserves for magic beans.
I was looking at Heseltine, Clarke and Patton, but dismissed them all as Brexit (not Brexiteer!) bad guys. So in today's climate I struggle to find a name that makes the cut.
As to your "remember you too are mortal" , it happened to Thatcher, but Johnson (and I don't understand how he does it) seems to defy gravity.
With Brown it was either the election that never was, or Gillian Duffy. Take your pick.
I don't think they were anything more than party politically strategic errors. If Brown has an Archilles heel it is gold.
Which, in PBTory view, qualifies him to lecture the Scots on economics.
Spreading a little bit of long awaited happiness here in the Black Country. The match could have been scripted. David Luis takes Jiminez out for the season, but then gets red carded back at Molineux.
I don't know. Why don't you ask him. He's on Twitter. Must be authoritative.
Why would a responsible clinician be using Twitter at all to raise his concerns at this stage? Seems an odd thing to do to me - it risks any message being totally misunderstood and potentially misused.
Talking of political rebranding...#10 PR operation has definitely got better in 2021.
Imagine if Dom was in charge over this period of vaccine nationalism. It would have been so much more destructive and I think he would have cornered the EU and forced them into a vaccine export ban and to use A16 as it would have been a huge political vindication of they actually did it.
Talking of political rebranding...#10 PR operation has definitely got better in 2021.
Imagine if Dom was in charge over this period of vaccine nationalism. It would have been so much more destructive and I think he would have cornered the EU and forced them into a vaccine export ban and to use A16 as it would have been a huge political vindication of they actually did it.
How many people in the UK would that have killed, do you think?
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and an even higher 63% of 2010 Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
To be fair, reading the complete thread helps to remind one why it is that the smaller EU members (of which Finland is obviously one) seem to have been more muted in voicing displeasure with the current state of the EU rollout. They were frightened of being steamrollered by the big players in a stampede for the vaccine, and ending up having to wait ages for supply.
As it is, the entire EU is waiting ages for supply. But if you think you would've ended up waiting ages regardless, absent a collective approach, then being forgiving of the Commission (whilst gently encouraging it to get its act together) doesn't appear to be a wholly inexplicable response.
While that's true, I think the fundamental failure the EU had (and has) is that they are fundamentally reactive, and that is a consequence of there not being a good feedback loop in place between voters and the executive.
In (say) Iceland, the government wished to be re-elected. They will proactively pursue policies that they think will lead to them getting more votes.
Not every government will get it right. Many will get it wrong.
But the process should be that good governments are rewarded by re-election, and bad governments punished by being kicked out.
With the EU Commission, they still get some pressures. So, because of a history of mismanagement of EU funds, there has been huge pressure to make sure that they aren't caught making poor financial decisions. An official will get castigated for a poor financial decision, but there's no ability or incentive for either officials or commisionars to be proactive.
I see this in my business with mutuals: they are afraid they might lose money (and therefore their job), rather than excited to make money (and therefore climb the greasy poll).
This is a golden opportunity for the EU (really), and for its parliament to hold the Commission to account.
It's really desperate stuff coming out of the EU. Beyond unacceptable.
There appear to be no sane voices left over there able to say "Serioulsy guys - you are looking profoundly foolish. Each utterance is proving so counter-productive. STFU."
I know you are a professional environmentalist. Has your second paragraph been recycled? It could easily have been written about any number of PB Brexiteers towards the end of last year. If so, good work!
I just think Europe these days is missing the people of the stature of a Brandt or a Chirac, who could "have a quiet word" in the situation the EU big-wigs have faced this past week.
A very fair comment. Francois Mitterrand and Helmut Schmidt also spring to mind.
True, but perhaps not unique to the other side of the Channel. Which elder statesman would parties or partisans in the UK listen to with respect?
A good question. Looking back at previous Prime Ministers, maybe Brown and Major, certainly not Blair or Cameron, both of whom have enormous credibility questions to answer. Although I have noticed since the demise of Corbyn, Blair's reputation seems to be undergoing a very minor revival.
Of Leaders of the Opposition, perhaps Hague, Howard or even Milliband. Although Howard was not my cup of tea, as a moderate Brexiteer, maybe he cuts through to both sides of the divide more than others.
Hague's a good spot. Ed M is arguably following in his footsteps- hopeless leaders at wrong times, but both had/have more to give. Howard can cut through- heck, he tried over the IM Bill. Didn't work though, which illustrates the problem. My hunch is that the political machine is so good at shredding reputations now that the current generation can ignore the warnings of their elders.
If you want to cut off any previous PM, it's too easy; Major: Black Wednesday Blair: Iraq Brown: Gold Cameron: Referendum May: (where to begin?) It's too easy, and saves you the trouble of thinking whether their warnings carry any weight.
Which is another argument for having someone whose entire job is to whisper in the PM's ear "remember you too are mortal."
You could be right, although Black Wednesday was a long time ago, and no one except PB Historians remember Brown swapping the gold reserves for magic beans.
I was looking at Heseltine, Clarke and Patton, but dismissed them all as Brexit (not Brexiteer!) bad guys. So in today's climate I struggle to find a name that makes the cut.
As to your "remember you too are mortal" , it happened to Thatcher, but Johnson (and I don't understand how he does it) seems to defy gravity.
With Brown it was either the election that never was, or Gillian Duffy. Take your pick.
Actually, "Bigoted woman" might be a better way of closing your mind off from anything Gordon Brown says. After all, anyone who described a voter like that must be an elitist fool, right?
The trick is to find something snappy that you can duckspeak to convince yourself that you must ignore anything they say. So for Clinton H it was either "emails" or "deplorables".
Talking of political rebranding...#10 PR operation has definitely got better in 2021.
Imagine if Dom was in charge over this period of vaccine nationalism. It would have been so much more destructive and I think he would have cornered the EU and forced them into a vaccine export ban and to use A16 as it would have been a huge political vindication of they actually did it.
I suspect that's absolutely right. Boris's quiet diplomacy (including calling the Irish and making sure they were on-side) was the right thing to do.
Talking of political rebranding...#10 PR operation has definitely got better in 2021.
Imagine if Dom was in charge over this period of vaccine nationalism. It would have been so much more destructive and I think he would have cornered the EU and forced them into a vaccine export ban and to use A16 as it would have been a huge political vindication of they actually did it.
How many people in the UK would that have killed, do you think?
Not just the UK as Pfizer rely on imports from the UK which would surely have been blocked. That would mean no one gets any vaccines. The calm nature of the government's response deserves a lot of credit in the face of such (continuing) stupidity from all across the EU. They could be forgiven for a "just shut the fuck up" type of reaction but they haven't which is very mature.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and an even higher 63% of 2010 Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and an even higher 63% of 2010 Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
Sorry HYUFD, you’re not even Scottish.
That too. As he helpfully explained the other day, not being Scots disqualifies anyone from commenting on Scots politics.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and an even higher 63% of 2010 Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
Blimey, that is all very old polling data, even by your sometimes, somewhat dodgy interpretation of statistics.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
Welsh voters are getting restive too, where independence has minority support, but increasingly cross party. Not sure the Union Jack stuff will go down any better there.
Probably for a lot of Liverpool fans, City has been the biggest game in recent seasons.
If you are not actually from Merseyside, what do Everton matter? Fans in Surrey (or Sheffield) don’t bump into Evertonians every day.
That’s why derby matches matter - you have to live and work with the enemy.
Even if you're from Merseyside I hope that you're not bumping into Evertonians everyday either at the moment...
...which got me thinking - that's something that I've noticed is here is much less general taking the piss out of each others football teams over Zoom than we get normally in the office. When it's a group exercise it feels communal and you can give as good you get, but over Zoom - it feels like you're just picking on someone and doesn't feel right. Is that just my office, or are others finding that too?
Oxford vaccine could substantially cut spread https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55910964 The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine could lead to a "substantial" fall in the spread of the virus, say scientists. The impact of Covid vaccines on transmission has been a crucial unknown that will dramatically shape the future of the pandemic. The study, which has not been formally published, also showed the vaccine remained effective while people waited for a second dose. It was 76% effective during the three months after the first shot. ...
That 53% reduction in infections is absolutely amazing, it could have an absolutely huge downwards effect on the R hopefully the other vaccines also replicate this.
They will. And it's another reason to be increasingly positive.
and the real impact is likely to be larger - the quoted percentages are reduction in swabs coming up positive, but if those people are not getting symptomatic they're far less likely to spread it too
I think the new AZ paper is going to leave a lot of egg on a lot of faces in Europe and in two weeks our real world results will be even worse and they're all going to have to make screeching u-turns and undermine the quality of their own regulators in the eyes of the public who will see something being "unsafe" suddenly become "safe" for over 65s ina really short space of time.
Mrs Duffy was/is a bigot, that’s one thing Brown was quite right about.
The fundamental issue with left wing politics for the last 10 years is that you may think someone’s a bigot, and you may well be right, but you’re not going to win their vote by telling them so. Although TBF he forgot the mic was on.
I don't know. Why don't you ask him. He's on Twitter. Must be authoritative.
In this case, he is quite authoritative. See his Twitter bio
"Consultant Geriatrician Tameside & Glossop, Former NHS National Clinical Director|Clinical Advisor Manchester & London|Leader"
Dismissing an opinion, just because it is worrying, or "on Twitter", is daft
Some care home workers have declined to be jabbed.
Isn't the vaccine meant to prevent serious infection, rather than any infection?
The whole point is that people do not pass away or need to be hospitalised.
I'd love some more details on whether these outbreaks are in care homes that have had 100% of the staff jabbed - or conversely, if a material number have refused it.
Whatever side of the debate you are on, some of the reporting in the MSM is a complete disgrace. Some of the very good news on transmissability is being completely ignored in favour of fear porn. Some of it spread about SAGE members. Or independent SAGE members.
"Independent SAGE" are a disgrace. Nothing to do with SAGE and instead extremists with an agenda to push.
A colleague was invited to join Independent SAGE (he thinks someone he worked with on a paper a while back misinterpreted him having a whinge about lockdown policies). Fair to say he wasn't tempted, just a bit nonplussed, not even his field really. He commented that "Independent SAGE is to SAGE as alternative medicine is to medicine".
I cannot think of a good reason they gave themselves a name that could cause people to be confused with the official SAGE. What other purpose could that serve other than confusion, when another name could be used?
To be fair, reading the complete thread helps to remind one why it is that the smaller EU members (of which Finland is obviously one) seem to have been more muted in voicing displeasure with the current state of the EU rollout. They were frightened of being steamrollered by the big players in a stampede for the vaccine, and ending up having to wait ages for supply.
As it is, the entire EU is waiting ages for supply. But if you think you would've ended up waiting ages regardless, absent a collective approach, then being forgiving of the Commission (whilst gently encouraging it to get its act together) doesn't appear to be a wholly inexplicable response.
While that's true, I think the fundamental failure the EU had (and has) is that they are fundamentally reactive, and that is a consequence of there not being a good feedback loop in place between voters and the executive.
In (say) Iceland, the government wished to be re-elected. They will proactively pursue policies that they think will lead to them getting more votes.
Not every government will get it right. Many will get it wrong.
But the process should be that good governments are rewarded by re-election, and bad governments punished by being kicked out.
With the EU Commission, they still get some pressures. So, because of a history of mismanagement of EU funds, there has been huge pressure to make sure that they aren't caught making poor financial decisions. An official will get castigated for a poor financial decision, but there's no ability or incentive for either officials or commisionars to be proactive.
I see this in my business with mutuals: they are afraid they might lose money (and therefore their job), rather than excited to make money (and therefore climb the greasy poll).
This is a golden opportunity for the EU (really), and for its parliament to hold the Commission to account.
Sadly, I suspect it will be wasted.
There was a remarkable failure to see the big picture.
The big picture was that vaccinations to get out of this nightmare were the end goal and the UK and USA focused on it from very early on, potentially at the expense of concentrating on other issues, leading to the successes today.
In the EU instead of focusing on the end game of ending the pandemic, they've concentrated on minutiae like the costs per dose of the vaccine and who takes responsibility for liability. The problem isn't just the Commissioners and how badly they've performed, its not just the lack of feedback at elections . . . the problem is a complete lack of feedback on a weekly basis too.
Who is the EU's Keir Starmer holding the Commission to account, seeking to exploit their failures and seeking to capitalise in order to take over as Commission President-in-waiting? People opposed to the project like Farage aren't opposition leaders seeking to win power.
What media concentrates on scrutinising the Commission and microanalysing any mistakes that get made like the Guardian, Telegraph etc do here?
Boris doesn't just have to perform in order to win election, he has to perform every week. If he's failing then expect it to be top story at 12 noon on a Wednesday - and see the tendency to do Tuesday u-turns to spike a negative story if one is brewing.
Perfectly fair assessment if you take the position of the EU commission, that the survival of the EU is more important than the survival of its citizens.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
Welsh voters are getting restive too, where independence has minority support, but increasingly cross party. Not sure the Union Jack stuff will go down any better there.
I think the new AZ paper is going to leave a lot of egg on a lot of faces in Europe and in two weeks our real world results will be even worse and they're all going to have to make screeching u-turns and undermine the quality of their own regulators in the eyes of the public who will see something being "unsafe" suddenly become "safe" for over 65s ina really short space of time.
EU u-turn....about as likely as VDL resigning....mini-Trump will probably double down with his pseudo science claims rather than admit he was wrong.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
HYUFD’s timing in pinning his hopes on SLab looks immaculate.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
Welsh voters are getting restive too, where independence has minority support, but increasingly cross party. Not sure the Union Jack stuff will go down any better there.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
That third are already voting SNP and will not return, Labour is better off appealing to Tory and LD tactical voters and British patriots who wish to beat the SNP
Talking of political rebranding...#10 PR operation has definitely got better in 2021.
Imagine if Dom was in charge over this period of vaccine nationalism. It would have been so much more destructive and I think he would have cornered the EU and forced them into a vaccine export ban and to use A16 as it would have been a huge political vindication of they actually did it.
How many people in the UK would that have killed, do you think?
Not just the UK as Pfizer rely on imports from the UK which would surely have been blocked. That would mean no one gets any vaccines. The calm nature of the government's response deserves a lot of credit in the face of such (continuing) stupidity from all across the EU. They could be forgiven for a "just shut the fuck up" type of reaction but they haven't which is very mature.
That's true, Max.
It's a mature and masterful demonstration of not interrupting one's opponents as they dig themselves deeper and deeper into a hole.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and an even higher 63% of 2010 Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
Blimey, that is all very old polling data, even by your sometimes, somewhat dodgy interpretation of statistics.
There's also the small point that he equates the entire population of Scotland (I think that's what he means - it can't be anything else to be meaningful) with the actual number who voted in the referendum in 2014. Even the DNVs are human beings too, never mind the children, prisoners, etc.
In a newspaper article or academic paper, that sort of error instantly makes me doubt the remainder.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
Welsh voters are getting restive too, where independence has minority support, but increasingly cross party. Not sure the Union Jack stuff will go down any better there.
The Independence vote in Wales is not on the scale of Scotland, but it is getting stronger, particularly amongst the young. The cross party nature of it is interesting too.
A header on the Welsh elections from someone on the spot would be worth a read.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
That third are already voting SNP and will not return, Labour is better off appealing to Tory and LD tactical voters and British patriots who wish to beat the SNP
No, no, they are voting Labour right now - that's the whole point.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
HYUFD’s timing in pinning his hopes on SLab looks immaculate.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
HYUFD’s timing in pinning his hopes on SLab looks immaculate.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
HYUFD’s timing in pinning his hopes on SLab looks immaculate.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
That third are already voting SNP and will not return, Labour is better off appealing to Tory and LD tactical voters and British patriots who wish to beat the SNP
Unfortunately tactical voting by unionists will not spontaneously occur in a manner that ousts SNP MSPs. It has to be directed from above by pacts between the unionist parties so that the unionist vote is not split. The unionist party leaders should be getting down to brass tacks like that.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
That third are already voting SNP and will not return, Labour is better off appealing to Tory and LD tactical voters and British patriots who wish to beat the SNP
No, no, they are voting Labour right now - that's the whole point.
No they aren't, Labour got 41% in 2010, the SNP got 20%.
2010 Labour Yes voters are now almost all voting SNP, the Labour voters in Scotland who remain are largely British patriots who are loyal to their crown and the UK and Union flag
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
HYUFD’s timing in pinning his hopes on SLab looks immaculate.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
Welsh voters are getting restive too, where independence has minority support, but increasingly cross party. Not sure the Union Jack stuff will go down any better there.
The Independence vote in Wales is not on the scale of Scotland, but it is getting stronger, particularly amongst the young. The cross party nature of it is interesting too.
A header on the Welsh elections from someone on the spot would be worth a read.
No it isn't, hence on current polling the biggest gainers in Wales in May will be Abolish the Assembly on the list and the Tories on the constituency vote relative to 2016
Spreading a little bit of long awaited happiness here in the Black Country. The match could have been scripted. David Luis takes Jiminez out for the season, but then gets red carded back at Molineux.
Apologies, I flagged this comment by mistake.
Often find I've Liked posts by mistake too! The links are right where my finger lands to swipe.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
Welsh voters are getting restive too, where independence has minority support, but increasingly cross party. Not sure the Union Jack stuff will go down any better there.
It would hardly be a surprise. Welsh Labour can avoid the fate of Scottish Labour by the simple expedient of turning itself into the WNP before Plaid finally works out how to make sustained progress outside the language belt.
It's just another phase in the inevitable process of disintegration. The UK is only held together by money.
Back down to Trump: Ideally he carries out his own defence and blows hard about his delusion of a stolen election. But that notwithstanding I hope he brow beats his defence team to do it for him.
It's really desperate stuff coming out of the EU. Beyond unacceptable.
There appear to be no sane voices left over there able to say "Serioulsy guys - you are looking profoundly foolish. Each utterance is proving so counter-productive. STFU."
I know you are a professional environmentalist. Has your second paragraph been recycled? It could easily have been written about any number of PB Brexiteers towards the end of last year. If so, good work!
I just think Europe these days is missing the people of the stature of a Brandt or a Chirac, who could "have a quiet word" in the situation the EU big-wigs have faced this past week.
A very fair comment. Francois Mitterrand and Helmut Schmidt also spring to mind.
True, but perhaps not unique to the other side of the Channel. Which elder statesman would parties or partisans in the UK listen to with respect?
A good question. Looking back at previous Prime Ministers, maybe Brown and Major, certainly not Blair or Cameron, both of whom have enormous credibility questions to answer. Although I have noticed since the demise of Corbyn, Blair's reputation seems to be undergoing a very minor revival.
Of Leaders of the Opposition, perhaps Hague, Howard or even Milliband. Although Howard was not my cup of tea, as a moderate Brexiteer, maybe he cuts through to both sides of the divide more than others.
Hague's a good spot. Ed M is arguably following in his footsteps- hopeless leaders at wrong times, but both had/have more to give. Howard can cut through- heck, he tried over the IM Bill. Didn't work though, which illustrates the problem. My hunch is that the political machine is so good at shredding reputations now that the current generation can ignore the warnings of their elders.
If you want to cut off any previous PM, it's too easy; Major: Black Wednesday Blair: Iraq Brown: Gold Cameron: Referendum May: (where to begin?) It's too easy, and saves you the trouble of thinking whether their warnings carry any weight.
Which is another argument for having someone whose entire job is to whisper in the PM's ear "remember you too are mortal."
You could be right, although Black Wednesday was a long time ago, and no one except PB Historians remember Brown swapping the gold reserves for magic beans.
I was looking at Heseltine, Clarke and Patton, but dismissed them all as Brexit (not Brexiteer!) bad guys. So in today's climate I struggle to find a name that makes the cut.
As to your "remember you too are mortal" , it happened to Thatcher, but Johnson (and I don't understand how he does it) seems to defy gravity.
With Brown it was either the election that never was, or Gillian Duffy. Take your pick.
I don't think they were anything more than party politically strategic errors. If Brown has an Archilles heel it is gold.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
Welsh voters are getting restive too, where independence has minority support, but increasingly cross party. Not sure the Union Jack stuff will go down any better there.
It would hardly be a surprise. Welsh Labour can avoid the fate of Scottish Labour by the simple expedient of turning itself into the WNP before Plaid finally works out how to make sustained progress outside the language belt.
It's just another phase in the inevitable process of disintegration. The UK is only held together by money.
Mrs Duffy was/is a bigot, that’s one thing Brown was quite right about.
The fundamental issue with left wing politics for the last 10 years is that you may think someone’s a bigot, and you may well be right, but you’re not going to win their vote by telling them so. Although TBF he forgot the mic was on.
I was actually driving David Jones MP canvassing in his constituency when Mrs Duffy made those remarks
We both collectively said 'Wow' and to be honest tried our hardest not to cry laughing
It's really desperate stuff coming out of the EU. Beyond unacceptable.
There appear to be no sane voices left over there able to say "Serioulsy guys - you are looking profoundly foolish. Each utterance is proving so counter-productive. STFU."
I know you are a professional environmentalist. Has your second paragraph been recycled? It could easily have been written about any number of PB Brexiteers towards the end of last year. If so, good work!
I just think Europe these days is missing the people of the stature of a Brandt or a Chirac, who could "have a quiet word" in the situation the EU big-wigs have faced this past week.
A very fair comment. Francois Mitterrand and Helmut Schmidt also spring to mind.
True, but perhaps not unique to the other side of the Channel. Which elder statesman would parties or partisans in the UK listen to with respect?
Spreading a little bit of long awaited happiness here in the Black Country. The match could have been scripted. David Luis takes Jiminez out for the season, but then gets red carded back at Molineux.
Apologies, I flagged this comment by mistake.
Often find I've Liked posts by mistake too! The links are right where my finger lands to swipe.
And I thought it was all down to my wit and insight ...
It's really desperate stuff coming out of the EU. Beyond unacceptable.
There appear to be no sane voices left over there able to say "Serioulsy guys - you are looking profoundly foolish. Each utterance is proving so counter-productive. STFU."
I know you are a professional environmentalist. Has your second paragraph been recycled? It could easily have been written about any number of PB Brexiteers towards the end of last year. If so, good work!
I just think Europe these days is missing the people of the stature of a Brandt or a Chirac, who could "have a quiet word" in the situation the EU big-wigs have faced this past week.
A very fair comment. Francois Mitterrand and Helmut Schmidt also spring to mind.
True, but perhaps not unique to the other side of the Channel. Which elder statesman would parties or partisans in the UK listen to with respect?
A good question. Looking back at previous Prime Ministers, maybe Brown and Major, certainly not Blair or Cameron, both of whom have enormous credibility questions to answer. Although I have noticed since the demise of Corbyn, Blair's reputation seems to be undergoing a very minor revival.
Of Leaders of the Opposition, perhaps Hague, Howard or even Milliband. Although Howard was not my cup of tea, as a moderate Brexiteer, maybe he cuts through to both sides of the divide more than others.
Hague's a good spot. Ed M is arguably following in his footsteps- hopeless leaders at wrong times, but both had/have more to give. Howard can cut through- heck, he tried over the IM Bill. Didn't work though, which illustrates the problem. My hunch is that the political machine is so good at shredding reputations now that the current generation can ignore the warnings of their elders.
If you want to cut off any previous PM, it's too easy; Major: Black Wednesday Blair: Iraq Brown: Gold Cameron: Referendum May: (where to begin?) It's too easy, and saves you the trouble of thinking whether their warnings carry any weight.
Which is another argument for having someone whose entire job is to whisper in the PM's ear "remember you too are mortal."
You could be right, although Black Wednesday was a long time ago, and no one except PB Historians remember Brown swapping the gold reserves for magic beans.
I was looking at Heseltine, Clarke and Patton, but dismissed them all as Brexit (not Brexiteer!) bad guys. So in today's climate I struggle to find a name that makes the cut.
As to your "remember you too are mortal" , it happened to Thatcher, but Johnson (and I don't understand how he does it) seems to defy gravity.
With Brown it was either the election that never was, or Gillian Duffy. Take your pick.
I don't think they were anything more than party politically strategic errors. If Brown has an Archilles heel it is gold.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
HYUFD’s timing in pinning his hopes on SLab looks immaculate.
Couldn’t SLab just fly/sit in front of St Andrew’s Crosses north of the border?
They're never going to out-saltire the SNP, so I don't blame them for not trying to do so. I also don't blame them for not censoring the Union flag - to be honest, anyone who is incensed by the Union flag (and there are plenty here) are not going to vote Labour, unless they turn themselves into the SNP's poodle/repository of tactical votes as the Greens have done. Let's see how their new leader (whoever it is) does.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
That third are already voting SNP and will not return, Labour is better off appealing to Tory and LD tactical voters and British patriots who wish to beat the SNP
No, no, they are voting Labour right now - that's the whole point.
No they aren't, Labour got 41% in 2010, the SNP got 20%.
2010 Labour Yes voters are now almost all voting SNP, the Labour voters in Scotland who remain are largely British patriots who are loyal to their crown and the UK and Union flag
You efectively told yourself to shut up last night as you are not Scots.
But for the record: my figure of a third of Labour voters in Scotland is both reasonably accurate and fairly up to date (ie well after Mr Starmer began as leader), for a recent stretch as well as one of the very latest polls (33% Yes, 8% DK, for 2019 Labour voters). That's a lot for SLAB to lose.
Oxford vaccine could substantially cut spread https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55910964 The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine could lead to a "substantial" fall in the spread of the virus, say scientists. The impact of Covid vaccines on transmission has been a crucial unknown that will dramatically shape the future of the pandemic. The study, which has not been formally published, also showed the vaccine remained effective while people waited for a second dose. It was 76% effective during the three months after the first shot. ...
This is surely the news of the day, but to read MSM sites you would not know this.
It's the second item on BBC News after Captain Tom.
It's really desperate stuff coming out of the EU. Beyond unacceptable.
There appear to be no sane voices left over there able to say "Serioulsy guys - you are looking profoundly foolish. Each utterance is proving so counter-productive. STFU."
I know you are a professional environmentalist. Has your second paragraph been recycled? It could easily have been written about any number of PB Brexiteers towards the end of last year. If so, good work!
I just think Europe these days is missing the people of the stature of a Brandt or a Chirac, who could "have a quiet word" in the situation the EU big-wigs have faced this past week.
A very fair comment. Francois Mitterrand and Helmut Schmidt also spring to mind.
True, but perhaps not unique to the other side of the Channel. Which elder statesman would parties or partisans in the UK listen to with respect?
A good question. Looking back at previous Prime Ministers, maybe Brown and Major, certainly not Blair or Cameron, both of whom have enormous credibility questions to answer. Although I have noticed since the demise of Corbyn, Blair's reputation seems to be undergoing a very minor revival.
Of Leaders of the Opposition, perhaps Hague, Howard or even Milliband. Although Howard was not my cup of tea, as a moderate Brexiteer, maybe he cuts through to both sides of the divide more than others.
Hague's a good spot. Ed M is arguably following in his footsteps- hopeless leaders at wrong times, but both had/have more to give. Howard can cut through- heck, he tried over the IM Bill. Didn't work though, which illustrates the problem. My hunch is that the political machine is so good at shredding reputations now that the current generation can ignore the warnings of their elders.
If you want to cut off any previous PM, it's too easy; Major: Black Wednesday Blair: Iraq Brown: Gold Cameron: Referendum May: (where to begin?) It's too easy, and saves you the trouble of thinking whether their warnings carry any weight.
Which is another argument for having someone whose entire job is to whisper in the PM's ear "remember you too are mortal."
You could be right, although Black Wednesday was a long time ago, and no one except PB Historians remember Brown swapping the gold reserves for magic beans.
I was looking at Heseltine, Clarke and Patton, but dismissed them all as Brexit (not Brexiteer!) bad guys. So in today's climate I struggle to find a name that makes the cut.
As to your "remember you too are mortal" , it happened to Thatcher, but Johnson (and I don't understand how he does it) seems to defy gravity.
With Brown it was either the election that never was, or Gillian Duffy. Take your pick.
I don't think they were anything more than party politically strategic errors. If Brown has an Archilles heel it is gold.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
Welsh voters are getting restive too, where independence has minority support, but increasingly cross party. Not sure the Union Jack stuff will go down any better there.
It would hardly be a surprise. Welsh Labour can avoid the fate of Scottish Labour by the simple expedient of turning itself into the WNP before Plaid finally works out how to make sustained progress outside the language belt.
It's just another phase in the inevitable process of disintegration. The UK is only held together by money.
I hear you.
More money to the nations it is.
Except that this isn't working very well as it is, and there's only so long you can keep increasing the flow of transfer payments. At some point your average voter in Wolverhampton is going to twig that they're paying 98% income tax and living in a mud hut whilst every household in Powys has just received a free 22 carat solid gold dildo, and then there could be ructions.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
That third are already voting SNP and will not return, Labour is better off appealing to Tory and LD tactical voters and British patriots who wish to beat the SNP
No, no, they are voting Labour right now - that's the whole point.
No they aren't, Labour got 41% in 2010, the SNP got 20%.
2010 Labour Yes voters are now almost all voting SNP, the Labour voters in Scotland who remain are largely British patriots who are loyal to their crown and the UK and Union flag
You efectively told yourself to shut up last night as you are not Scots.
But for the record: my figure of a third of Labour voters in Scotland is both reasonably accurate and fairly up to date (ie well after Mr Starmer began as leader), for a recent stretch as well as one of the very latest polls (33% Yes, 8% DK, for 2019 Labour voters). That's a lot for SLAB to lose.
I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just interesting to see a Scot Nat supporter arguing for a nuanced approach based on a 'substantial minority', given that the 'substantial minority' of Scottish voters who voted for Brexit have been so thoroughly swept under the carpet, sometimes even I wonder if they exist.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
HYUFD’s timing in pinning his hopes on SLab looks immaculate.
Couldn’t SLab just fly/sit in front of St Andrew’s Crosses north of the border?
They're never going to out-saltire the SNP, so I don't blame them for not trying to do so. I also don't blame them for not censoring the Union flag - to be honest, anyone who is incensed by the Union flag (and there are plenty here) are not going to vote Labour, unless they turn themselves into the SNP's poodle/repository of tactical votes as the Greens have done. Let's see how their new leader (whoever it is) does.
Not a leader, but a poodle. He/she can't deviate from the London line, that's the problem for them. But yes, I don't know how they resolve the problem of trying to out-Britnat the Tories, while finding the SNP sitting oin their progressive policies and home rule.
I was chatting to a colleague not long back from Greece. Getting vaccinated there was quite easy he said. So much anti-vaxxing that demand meets supply. He has just had his Pfizer second dose there.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
Welsh voters are getting restive too, where independence has minority support, but increasingly cross party. Not sure the Union Jack stuff will go down any better there.
It would hardly be a surprise. Welsh Labour can avoid the fate of Scottish Labour by the simple expedient of turning itself into the WNP before Plaid finally works out how to make sustained progress outside the language belt.
It's just another phase in the inevitable process of disintegration. The UK is only held together by money.
Except as I said the fastest growing party in Wales is not Plaid but Abolish the Assembly
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
That third are already voting SNP and will not return, Labour is better off appealing to Tory and LD tactical voters and British patriots who wish to beat the SNP
No, no, they are voting Labour right now - that's the whole point.
No they aren't, Labour got 41% in 2010, the SNP got 20%.
2010 Labour Yes voters are now almost all voting SNP, the Labour voters in Scotland who remain are largely British patriots who are loyal to their crown and the UK and Union flag
You efectively told yourself to shut up last night as you are not Scots.
But for the record: my figure of a third of Labour voters in Scotland is both reasonably accurate and fairly up to date (ie well after Mr Starmer began as leader), for a recent stretch as well as one of the very latest polls (33% Yes, 8% DK, for 2019 Labour voters). That's a lot for SLAB to lose.
I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just interesting to see a Scot Nat supporter arguing for a nuanced approach based on a 'substantial minority', given that the 'substantial minority' of Scottish voters who voted for Brexit have been so thoroughly swept under the carpet, sometimes even I wonder if they exist.
Are you sure? Be more accurate to sayt that the Brexiter voters in Scotland have been wildly privileged over the massive majority of Scottish voters against Brexit, surely.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
That third are already voting SNP and will not return, Labour is better off appealing to Tory and LD tactical voters and British patriots who wish to beat the SNP
No, no, they are voting Labour right now - that's the whole point.
No they aren't, Labour got 41% in 2010, the SNP got 20%.
2010 Labour Yes voters are now almost all voting SNP, the Labour voters in Scotland who remain are largely British patriots who are loyal to their crown and the UK and Union flag
You efectively told yourself to shut up last night as you are not Scots.
But for the record: my figure of a third of Labour voters in Scotland is both reasonably accurate and fairly up to date (ie well after Mr Starmer began as leader), for a recent stretch as well as one of the very latest polls (33% Yes, 8% DK, for 2019 Labour voters). That's a lot for SLAB to lose.
The vast majority of Scottish Labour voters who back the Union still are a far greater risk of loss to the Scottish Conservatives if Labour is not seen as sufficiently Unionist. Scottish Labour members are also not the same as Scottish Labour voters
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
HYUFD’s timing in pinning his hopes on SLab looks immaculate.
Couldn’t SLab just fly/sit in front of St Andrew’s Crosses north of the border?
They're never going to out-saltire the SNP, so I don't blame them for not trying to do so. I also don't blame them for not censoring the Union flag - to be honest, anyone who is incensed by the Union flag (and there are plenty here) are not going to vote Labour, unless they turn themselves into the SNP's poodle/repository of tactical votes as the Greens have done. Let's see how their new leader (whoever it is) does.
Not a leader, but a poodle. He/she can't deviate from the London line, that's the problem for them. But yes, I don't know how they resolve the problem of trying to out-Britnat the Tories, while finding the SNP sitting oin their progressive policies and home rule.
I am not massively optimistic for the Scottish Labour Party. I am optimistic that the SNP are going to rip themselves into tagliatelle, I'm just not sure that Scottish Labour are positioning themselves right to be the beneficiaries.
The EU will be 60-70% vaccinated (i.e. effective herd immunity when you include those that have already had CV19) by the end of June. We'll be there by the end of April.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
That third are already voting SNP and will not return, Labour is better off appealing to Tory and LD tactical voters and British patriots who wish to beat the SNP
No, no, they are voting Labour right now - that's the whole point.
No they aren't, Labour got 41% in 2010, the SNP got 20%.
2010 Labour Yes voters are now almost all voting SNP, the Labour voters in Scotland who remain are largely British patriots who are loyal to their crown and the UK and Union flag
You efectively told yourself to shut up last night as you are not Scots.
But for the record: my figure of a third of Labour voters in Scotland is both reasonably accurate and fairly up to date (ie well after Mr Starmer began as leader), for a recent stretch as well as one of the very latest polls (33% Yes, 8% DK, for 2019 Labour voters). That's a lot for SLAB to lose.
The vast majority of Scottish Labour voters who back the Union still are a far greater risk of loss to the Scottish Conservatives if Labour is not seen as sufficiently Unionist. Scottish Labour members are also not the same as Scottish Labour voters
Still means Mr Starmer is going to lose voters whatever he does. And you really do need to pay attention to language. The source I gave, with further refs behind it, says "voters". You know, people who vote. Not members.
" [...] analysis of the five most recent reputable polls of Scottish Labour voters showed an average of 32 per cent supporting a Yes vote, 53 per cent opposed and 15 per cent yet to decide.
It should be noted again that these polls all contain fairly small sample sizes of Labour voters, all fewer than 200 people, so the margin of error is much larger than normal."
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
2014 result was:
No 55% Yes 45%
Of those who were (a) entitled and (b) actually voted and (c) didn't spoil the ballot. Not all Scots.
I do wonder how that will play with their voters in Scotland. Given a third are pro-indy. More UJs than the Olympics Torch's passage, albeit sans the Olympics sponsors. And about as likely to show the Kernow flag too.
55% of Scots and a majority of Labour voters voted to stay in the UK in 2014, SLab also need Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP.
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
55% of Scots did NOT vote to stay in the UK. You're making it up. Changing the facts. And in any case missing the point. I am talking about the substantial minority (third) of Labour voters hwo didn't vote for the Union Flag in 2014. I've not seen any discussion of that.
HYUFD’s timing in pinning his hopes on SLab looks immaculate.
Couldn’t SLab just fly/sit in front of St Andrew’s Crosses north of the border?
They're never going to out-saltire the SNP, so I don't blame them for not trying to do so. I also don't blame them for not censoring the Union flag - to be honest, anyone who is incensed by the Union flag (and there are plenty here) are not going to vote Labour, unless they turn themselves into the SNP's poodle/repository of tactical votes as the Greens have done. Let's see how their new leader (whoever it is) does.
Not a leader, but a poodle. He/she can't deviate from the London line, that's the problem for them. But yes, I don't know how they resolve the problem of trying to out-Britnat the Tories, while finding the SNP sitting oin their progressive policies and home rule.
I am not massively optimistic for the Scottish Labour Party. I am optimistic that the SNP are going to rip themselves into tagliatelle, I'm just not sure that Scottish Labour are positioning themselves right to be the beneficiaries.
The infighting in the SNP is bonkers, and damaging. Much as they hate each others guts though, both factions are keen on independence. It is just matters of personality and tactics.
Comments
I was looking at Heseltine, Clarke and Patton, but dismissed them all as Brexit (not Brexiteer!) bad guys. So in today's climate I struggle to find a name that makes the cut.
As to your "remember you too are mortal" , it happened to Thatcher, but Johnson (and I don't understand how he does it) seems to defy gravity.
https://twitter.com/naebd/status/1356699214911266817?s=21
If you are not actually from Merseyside, what do Everton matter? Fans in Surrey (or Sheffield) don’t bump into Evertonians every day.
That’s why derby matches matter - you have to live and work with the enemy.
https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1355204930873794562
(If only we had a Moderate Party...)
They are never going to win back Nat, UK haters like you
In (say) Iceland, the government wished to be re-elected. They will proactively pursue policies that they think will lead to them getting more votes.
Not every government will get it right. Many will get it wrong.
But the process should be that good governments are rewarded by re-election, and bad governments punished by being kicked out.
With the EU Commission, they still get some pressures. So, because of a history of mismanagement of EU funds, there has been huge pressure to make sure that they aren't caught making poor financial decisions. An official will get castigated for a poor financial decision, but there's no ability or incentive for either officials or commisionars to be proactive.
I see this in my business with mutuals: they are afraid they might lose money (and therefore their job), rather than excited to make money (and therefore climb the greasy poll).
This is a golden opportunity for the EU (really), and for its parliament to hold the Commission to account.
Sadly, I suspect it will be wasted.
The trick is to find something snappy that you can duckspeak to convince yourself that you must ignore anything they say. So for Clinton H it was either "emails" or "deplorables".
(And I'm not really a BJ fan.)
https://twitter.com/geofflemon/status/1253128901670256640
https://twitter.com/NationCymru/status/1356588063787466752?s=19
...which got me thinking - that's something that I've noticed is here is much less general taking the piss out of each others football teams over Zoom than we get normally in the office. When it's a group exercise it feels communal and you can give as good you get, but over Zoom - it feels like you're just picking on someone and doesn't feel right. Is that just my office, or are others finding that too?
The big picture was that vaccinations to get out of this nightmare were the end goal and the UK and USA focused on it from very early on, potentially at the expense of concentrating on other issues, leading to the successes today.
In the EU instead of focusing on the end game of ending the pandemic, they've concentrated on minutiae like the costs per dose of the vaccine and who takes responsibility for liability. The problem isn't just the Commissioners and how badly they've performed, its not just the lack of feedback at elections . . . the problem is a complete lack of feedback on a weekly basis too.
Who is the EU's Keir Starmer holding the Commission to account, seeking to exploit their failures and seeking to capitalise in order to take over as Commission President-in-waiting? People opposed to the project like Farage aren't opposition leaders seeking to win power.
What media concentrates on scrutinising the Commission and microanalysing any mistakes that get made like the Guardian, Telegraph etc do here?
Boris doesn't just have to perform in order to win election, he has to perform every week. If he's failing then expect it to be top story at 12 noon on a Wednesday - and see the tendency to do Tuesday u-turns to spike a negative story if one is brewing.
Just gone over my house.
If so - who?
https://twitter.com/paauul/status/1356703200766738432?s=21
On that basis they believe Wales is not Unionist enough
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1352620446051655682?s=20
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1352619073302048768?s=20
It's a mature and masterful demonstration of not interrupting one's opponents as they dig themselves deeper and deeper into a hole.
In a newspaper article or academic paper, that sort of error instantly makes me doubt the remainder.
A header on the Welsh elections from someone on the spot would be worth a read.
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1356618475234557956?s=19
Hmm...
Be that as it may, I don't see why we'd be any less receptive to papal bull than all the other kinds.
2010 Labour Yes voters are now almost all voting SNP, the Labour voters in Scotland who remain are largely British patriots who are loyal to their crown and the UK and Union flag
Boldly going where no man - where no one - has gone before...
Often find I've Liked posts by mistake too! The links are right where my finger lands to swipe.
It's just another phase in the inevitable process of disintegration. The UK is only held together by money.
Ideally he carries out his own defence and blows hard about his delusion of a stolen election.
But that notwithstanding I hope he brow beats his defence team to do it for him.
https://goldprice.org/gold-price-charts/30-year-gold-price-history-in-uk-pounds-per-ounce
The issue for which Brown should be pilloried is PFI.
More money to the nations it is.
We both collectively said 'Wow' and to be honest tried our hardest not to cry laughing
Now his pathetic comments make sense ..........
So what - aiming for about 250 then is he?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vor03-uUeuM
https://twitter.com/westminsterwag/status/1356186642327990273?s=21
But for the record: my figure of a third of Labour voters in Scotland is both reasonably accurate and fairly up to date (ie well after Mr Starmer began as leader), for a recent stretch as well as one of the very latest polls (33% Yes, 8% DK, for 2019 Labour voters). That's a lot for SLAB to lose.
https://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-vote-in-the-in-a-scottish-independence-referendum-if-held-now-ask/
https://theferret.scot/40-per-cent-scottish-labour-members-independence/
https://twitter.com/Matt_Furniss/status/1356694302982873088
(which may not unfruitloop Pres. Macron)
Has anyone read all 37 pages?
That's my forecast.
No 55%
Yes 45%
" [...] analysis of the five most recent reputable polls of Scottish Labour voters showed an average of 32 per cent supporting a Yes vote, 53 per cent opposed and 15 per cent yet to decide.
It should be noted again that these polls all contain fairly small sample sizes of Labour voters, all fewer than 200 people, so the margin of error is much larger than normal."