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Powerful front page from the Daily Mail as UK COVID deaths top 100k – politicalbetting.com

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  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Cancel culture rarely survives a plague
    Ideological mania can become too costly to maintain

    BY SEAN THOMAS"

    https://unherd.com/2021/01/after-a-plague-we-cant-afford-wokeness/

    Good piece. Very good writer isn`t he.

    "Compare this with the mobs on Twitter, or the more extreme BLM protests, where, if you don’t join in, or express support, you must be suspect." Indeed. Imagine what would happen to a lone footballer who decided not to partake in "taking the knee".
    This very sensible sounding chap seems to have managed:
    https://www.sportbible.com/football/football-news-football-lyle-taylor-hits-out-at-black-lives-matter-and-taking-knee-20210110
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Foss said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:


    ...
    This whole thing was so predictable when the commission took everything over, the lack of production subsidies is really what the issue is in the EU. Both the UK and US took a proactive approach and subsidised it's industries to ensure domestic supply and eventually oversupply. The EU relied on the free market, it was the wrong approach and instead of fixing the original problem they are making threats.

    Yes, I think that is the crucial point. The UK (and I think also the US with Operation Warp Speed) took a gamble early on by putting money into production capacity without knowing whether the vaccines would actually work and be safe. It was a well-judged gamble (thanks, Kate Bingham) which has been spectacularly successful. At worst, we might have wasted a few hundred million quid, but that's nothing in the context of this pandemic, and as it has turned out, we've gained months. The EU was very late to that game, and is now unfortunately left behind.
    Months? AIUI, the EU is three weeks behind as of the most recent data. 2% as of 24th January, versus the UK's 2% as of 3rd January.
    It's about trajectory. Quite simply, their effort is ramping up at a much, much slower rate. So they are behind and not accelerating as fast.
    The President of Andalucia reckons on 15% vaccinated by the summer!
    So unless they manage another 55% over the summer then it's likely that they'll be back under strong restrictions come the autumn... Crazy...
    The good news is they'll have done all of the mayors, bishops and generals who are busy hoovering up the few available!
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    Uk cases by specimen date

    image

    I'm sure tehse posts are valuable but due to the size of the image I find them completely unreadable. Is there a better way to present this data?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    UK case summary

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  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    felix said:

    Dr Anthony Fauci, President Joe Biden’s top medical adviser, is encouraging Americans to "double-mask" - that is, wearing two face coverings layered on top of each other.

    “It just makes common sense that it likely would be more effective,” he said.

    Is it common sense to triple mask then? Quadruple mask? We should get Gillette involved.
    "Shave while you shield"
    TBH I didn't see a proliferation of goatees as an unfortunate side effect of covid!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Uk cases by specimen date

    image

    I'm sure tehse posts are valuable but due to the size of the image I find them completely unreadable. Is there a better way to present this data?
    Click/tap on them for full sized images.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    UK hospitals

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  • kle4 said:

    In slight defence it is quite a lot lower than the same day a week ago, but it doesn't make the histrionics reasonable.

    And I know gov set the target, but there's nothing magical about getting close but not over 15 m 2 weeks from now.
    "but it doesn't make the histrionics reasonable."

    new around here?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Uk cases by specimen date

    image

    I'm sure tehse posts are valuable but due to the size of the image I find them completely unreadable. Is there a better way to present this data?
    Lol - you have to click on the image to see the detail - unless like me you have superpowers!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    edited January 2021
    UK deaths

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    image
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Uk cases by specimen date

    image

    I'm sure tehse posts are valuable but due to the size of the image I find them completely unreadable. Is there a better way to present this data?
    If you click them you can see the full size image.
  • Endillion said:

    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Cancel culture rarely survives a plague
    Ideological mania can become too costly to maintain

    BY SEAN THOMAS"

    https://unherd.com/2021/01/after-a-plague-we-cant-afford-wokeness/

    Good piece. Very good writer isn`t he.

    "Compare this with the mobs on Twitter, or the more extreme BLM protests, where, if you don’t join in, or express support, you must be suspect." Indeed. Imagine what would happen to a lone footballer who decided not to partake in "taking the knee".
    This very sensible sounding chap seems to have managed:
    https://www.sportbible.com/football/football-news-football-lyle-taylor-hits-out-at-black-lives-matter-and-taking-knee-20210110
    Have we seen a white footballer take such a stand? I think the pressure to conform is overwhelming.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    Age data

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    UK R

    from cases

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    from hospitalisation data

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  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    edited January 2021

    Dr Anthony Fauci, President Joe Biden’s top medical adviser, is encouraging Americans to "double-mask" - that is, wearing two face coverings layered on top of each other.

    “It just makes common sense that it likely would be more effective,” he said.

    The last set of masks we made did use three different layers, to some extent following WHO guidance: a polyester outer layer, a woven cotton inner layer, and a middle layer of non-woven interfacing.

    Don't think doubling that would achieve much.
    I can see a solid scientific reason why multiple layers would be effective than you might expect. But surely that would/could be achieved in any serious, medical-grade mask.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Selebian said:

    According to the article, it's actually said that vaccines made in the UK should form part of the vaccines that the EU receives - that's not quite the same thing. If AZN is meeting it's (best efforts, presumably) contractual commitments to the UK then it would be expected that excess capacity would be used to meet contractual commitments elsewhere. It's surely inevitable that the UK factories will be sending some to the EU, at least in time, as the EU-based Pfizer factories are sending vaccines to us (as we have a contract to receive those).
    https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/

    “The UK agreement was reached in June, three months before the European one. As you could imagine, the UK government said the supply coming out of the UK supply chain would go to the UK first. Basically, that's how it is. In the EU agreement it is mentioned that the manufacturing sites in the UK were an option for Europe, but only later. But we're moving very quickly, the supply in the UK is very rapid. The government is vaccinating 2.5 million people a week, about 500,000 a day, our vaccine supply is growing quickly. As soon as we have reached a sufficient number of vaccinations in the UK, we will be able to use that site to help Europe as well. But the contract with the UK was signed first and the UK, of course, said “you supply us first”, and this is fair enough. This vaccine was developed with the UK government, Oxford and with us as well. As soon as we can, we'll help the EU. I mean, as a company we are half Swedish and half British. In fact, we're global, of course, but we are European as much as we are British".

    my bold
    I dont think we have sufficient vaccine or that our vaccine supply is growing quickly enough.

    Mrs BJO had her first jab today and the date of the 2nd jab was crossed out on the AZN card. The vaccine centre she visited said they had been told this morning not to hand out cards with 2nd jab dates on and to warn people it could be 20 weeks before the 2nd jab.

    "Government intends to give everyone a first jab before doing 2nd jabs at 12 weeks, and we have had to cross out appointment dates"
    We had our Pfizer vaccinations last Saturday and we had a card with the record of the first vaccination including the batch number, location and date

    The Doctor told us the next vaccination would be within 11 weeks and of course we were told to come back with the card to be updated then. There was no entry at all on the line under the first vaccination as they do not know the date, but neither the batch number or vaccination location. I do question your comment that the a card was filled in with a crossed out second date and this 20 week allegation

    If we take into account your comments on the fake news of 8% effectiveness of the AZ vaccine, then I do wonder whether you just want to make mischief in a subject that is far too serious for that
    Fuck off BigG i would never lie about what we were told that is a disgusting comment
    Yes hope you get an apology.
    There is no evidence that anyone has been given a 20 week wait and BJO's comments on the rumours about AZ and the 8% were an anti vaccine dream

    As has been said he should be reporting it to the media rather than swearing at me
    I have sent you a pm with the image of her appointment card.

    As the 20 week comment was verbal, do you wish to speak to Mrs BJ too or are you accusing her of being in on it

    If you refuse to apologize that says more about you than me TBH
    Other anecdotes on here suggest no one is getting an appointment date, so it isn't particularly unusual. The 20 week comment is strange, but doesn't seem consistent with what the NHS chief said today on the subject.
    Yes maybe it is strange.

    I have taken my mum my uncle and MrsBJ for jabs the first 2 definitely got appointment cards with date of 2nd dose on they were Pfizer cards though

    Anyway BigG has decided i have made the whole thing up

    I cannot tell you how disappointed i am with that.
    Just make sure you follow up if you don't hear back. Likewise for others without a firm date.
    Yep will do Rob

    I am off now to kick the cat!
    Son was told he would get an e mail for 2nd appointment - I think he said it would be in around 6 weeks from first - so nothing written on about 2nd date
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    UK vaccinations

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  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,755
    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    https://twitter.com/lukemcgee/status/1354469908126576641?s=20

    If the contract with AZ was junk, so probably were the other ones from what is in the public domain....

    I wouldn't say the contracts are junk but the contracts aren't legally binding delivery targets it's all best endeavors because that was all any sane company would ever offer.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Sensible question from member of public.
    Clinically vulnerable children (And their parents) really do have it rough. As do their siblings.
    By contrast here's Laura.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited January 2021
    Re the kneeling...when they had fans back, booing was reported as definitely being racist and many clubs implemented a policy that anybody booing during it would be banned for life.

    Now I think a fair amount of the idiots booing were probably racist (or started by a racist and mob behaviour kicks in). But I think it is far from universal that everybody thinks that clubs and tv stations should be supporting specifically BLM.

    Again the NFL have distanced themselves from it. They have come up with other slogans and ways to show support. I think their "Inspire Change" is a much more positive slogan. In the first weeks of the season they asked players to all join arms rather than kneel.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Endillion said:

    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Cancel culture rarely survives a plague
    Ideological mania can become too costly to maintain

    BY SEAN THOMAS"

    https://unherd.com/2021/01/after-a-plague-we-cant-afford-wokeness/

    Good piece. Very good writer isn`t he.

    "Compare this with the mobs on Twitter, or the more extreme BLM protests, where, if you don’t join in, or express support, you must be suspect." Indeed. Imagine what would happen to a lone footballer who decided not to partake in "taking the knee".
    This very sensible sounding chap seems to have managed:
    https://www.sportbible.com/football/football-news-football-lyle-taylor-hits-out-at-black-lives-matter-and-taking-knee-20210110
    Have we seen a white footballer take such a stand? I think the pressure to conform is overwhelming.
    Maybe they just want to support their fellow teammates, even if they themselves are not too bothered or knowledgeable on the issue? It's not like it makes a difference to anything either way.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,423
    We have serious problems brewing in this country.

    Sounds like a bomb scare disrupted production at one of the UK vaccine facilities today.
    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-bomb-disposal-unit-called-19710403

    We have reports of Covid deniers trying to "save" seriously ill patients from hospital.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/27/hospital-incursions-by-covid-deniers-putting-lives-at-risk-say-leaders
  • Floater said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Selebian said:

    According to the article, it's actually said that vaccines made in the UK should form part of the vaccines that the EU receives - that's not quite the same thing. If AZN is meeting it's (best efforts, presumably) contractual commitments to the UK then it would be expected that excess capacity would be used to meet contractual commitments elsewhere. It's surely inevitable that the UK factories will be sending some to the EU, at least in time, as the EU-based Pfizer factories are sending vaccines to us (as we have a contract to receive those).
    https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/

    “The UK agreement was reached in June, three months before the European one. As you could imagine, the UK government said the supply coming out of the UK supply chain would go to the UK first. Basically, that's how it is. In the EU agreement it is mentioned that the manufacturing sites in the UK were an option for Europe, but only later. But we're moving very quickly, the supply in the UK is very rapid. The government is vaccinating 2.5 million people a week, about 500,000 a day, our vaccine supply is growing quickly. As soon as we have reached a sufficient number of vaccinations in the UK, we will be able to use that site to help Europe as well. But the contract with the UK was signed first and the UK, of course, said “you supply us first”, and this is fair enough. This vaccine was developed with the UK government, Oxford and with us as well. As soon as we can, we'll help the EU. I mean, as a company we are half Swedish and half British. In fact, we're global, of course, but we are European as much as we are British".

    my bold
    I dont think we have sufficient vaccine or that our vaccine supply is growing quickly enough.

    Mrs BJO had her first jab today and the date of the 2nd jab was crossed out on the AZN card. The vaccine centre she visited said they had been told this morning not to hand out cards with 2nd jab dates on and to warn people it could be 20 weeks before the 2nd jab.

    "Government intends to give everyone a first jab before doing 2nd jabs at 12 weeks, and we have had to cross out appointment dates"
    We had our Pfizer vaccinations last Saturday and we had a card with the record of the first vaccination including the batch number, location and date

    The Doctor told us the next vaccination would be within 11 weeks and of course we were told to come back with the card to be updated then. There was no entry at all on the line under the first vaccination as they do not know the date, but neither the batch number or vaccination location. I do question your comment that the a card was filled in with a crossed out second date and this 20 week allegation

    If we take into account your comments on the fake news of 8% effectiveness of the AZ vaccine, then I do wonder whether you just want to make mischief in a subject that is far too serious for that
    Fuck off BigG i would never lie about what we were told that is a disgusting comment
    Yes hope you get an apology.
    There is no evidence that anyone has been given a 20 week wait and BJO's comments on the rumours about AZ and the 8% were an anti vaccine dream

    As has been said he should be reporting it to the media rather than swearing at me
    I have sent you a pm with the image of her appointment card.

    As the 20 week comment was verbal, do you wish to speak to Mrs BJ too or are you accusing her of being in on it

    If you refuse to apologize that says more about you than me TBH
    Other anecdotes on here suggest no one is getting an appointment date, so it isn't particularly unusual. The 20 week comment is strange, but doesn't seem consistent with what the NHS chief said today on the subject.
    Yes maybe it is strange.

    I have taken my mum my uncle and MrsBJ for jabs the first 2 definitely got appointment cards with date of 2nd dose on they were Pfizer cards though

    Anyway BigG has decided i have made the whole thing up

    I cannot tell you how disappointed i am with that.
    Just make sure you follow up if you don't hear back. Likewise for others without a firm date.
    Yep will do Rob

    I am off now to kick the cat!
    Son was told he would get an e mail for 2nd appointment - I think he said it would be in around 6 weeks from first - so nothing written on about 2nd date
    I was told I would receive a text
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:


    It would only be interesting, indeed astonishing, if such caveats weren't in the contract.

    It is completely inconceivable that the contract wouldn't include lots of such caveats. There is absolutely no way AZ would have given a firm commitment on delivery dates for a brand-new vaccine, involving new production facilities and dependent on other suppliers who themselves were also doing things for the first time, all in a super-fast timescale.
    As AZ CEO has continually stated the contract is based on best endeavors.

    I'm actually surprised how polite he is being in public considering the games the EU seem to be playing.
    https://twitter.com/danielboffey/status/1354401225995911169?s=20
    I don't know what the EU think they're playing at. They really are in a negotiation where AZ hold all the cards. After all, if the EU get too bolshie AZ have the option to simply walk away from the contract, close their European factory and concentrate on other markets.

    And there is exactly feck all the EU can do about it.

    So the 'win' here for the EU is they accept a lower delivery than they want, and the lose is that they get none at all.
    Wrong. The EU is one of the largest markets for pharmaceuticals in the world. That gives them a lot of muscle. AZ will not want to antagonise them more than necessary, so no, AZ do not hold all the cards, far from it.
    So - just to be clear - the EU might ban AZ from operating in the EU altogether if they decide to abrogate a contract?

    Which would cause no medicine shortages of any kind, I trust?

    The EU are behaving like complete fools. It's like watching the DUP over Theresa May's deal - only worse, because you expect the DUP to behave like idiots.
    Oh, and in case you didn't know, the UK government regularly tries to coerce companies, bully them if you like, by threats or inferences of lost contracts for those that don't tow the line
    Isn't that the point? The EU cannot claim the high ground on government with escapades like this. The poor actions of others doesn't come into it.
    The EU itself is obviously very reluctant to take the step of banning vaccine exports from the EU, so it needs to be seen to be doing its best to extract what it can from AZ. If it can't, then it may be forced by its member states to say, "sod the moral high ground" and fall back on its legislative power and economic might to get what it wants.
    Well, at least you have clarified that the EU is a bully,
    Whether the EU is a bully or not is completely immaterial. If it chooses to make use of its rather substantial political and economic muscle, there's very little we can do about it (other than call them names).
    That's definitely not true, Pfizer relies on UK exports for vaccine production. I'm sure they could find a replacement supplier but that will take months worth of sourcing, testing and then testing again. The UK government would absolutely retaliate with an overnight ban of exports of these raw materials which means a production halt in Belgium while new raw materials are sourced, I expect we'd send them to the US instead and Pfizer would supply everyone out of the US supply chain after a few weeks.

    Honestly, there is nothing to be gained by anyone with a trade war over vaccine exports/production. The UK is an integral part of the EU pharmaceutical supply chain, including vaccine production. As many have pointed out and I tend to agree, there just doesn't seem like any route for them to ban exports of finished products. Not without retaliatory action that won't result in everyone losing.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    I think that's pretty but I'd be confused whether it was actually a crossing or not. Counter productive in that sense.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    More stupid questions from LauraK.
  • MaxPB said:


    ...
    This whole thing was so predictable when the commission took everything over, the lack of production subsidies is really what the issue is in the EU. Both the UK and US took a proactive approach and subsidised it's industries to ensure domestic supply and eventually oversupply. The EU relied on the free market, it was the wrong approach and instead of fixing the original problem they are making threats.

    Yes, I think that is the crucial point. The UK (and I think also the US with Operation Warp Speed) took a gamble early on by putting money into production capacity without knowing whether the vaccines would actually work and be safe. It was a well-judged gamble (thanks, Kate Bingham) which has been spectacularly successful. At worst, we might have wasted a few hundred million quid, but that's nothing in the context of this pandemic, and as it has turned out, we've gained months. The EU was very late to that game, and is now unfortunately left behind.
    Months? AIUI, the EU is three weeks behind as of the most recent data. 2% as of 24th January, versus the UK's 2% as of 3rd January.
    Yes, but the running rate in the UK is now miles faster, and will stay that way for some time.
    What matters in terms of how far behind is the UK's current rate versus the EU's rate in 3 weeks. If the EU curve has the same shape as the UK's it will remain 3 weeks behind. Steeper, it will be less behind, and shallower, further. I don't know what the coming weeks will hold for vaccination rates, but the fairest metric today is 3 weeks.

    Obviously the EU's not going to overtake the UK's vaccinations (by proportion of population vaccinated) anytime soon, probably ever. But "months behind" is probably an exaggeration right now.
    No, months is accurate.

    The question to ask is at what point they will reach the stage where we are today. 3 weeks ago they were 3 weeks behind, as they've only just caught up with where we were 3 weeks ago. But that doesn't mean they're still 3 weeks behind now. Unless something dramatically changes they're going to take months now to catch up to >10 doses per 100 people.

    Two trains set off from the same location, one travelling at 60 miles per hour, one travelling at 30 miles an hour. After an hour train one has travelled 60 miles. By the time train 2 has travelled 60 miles, train 1 has now travelled 120 miles; train 2 is now 60 miles behind car, which is 2 hours behind - not half an hour or one hour.
    No, you're wrong, sorry. If a train leaves half an hour after another one and follows the same acceleration curve, it will always be half an hour behind. The distance will keep getting larger, but the lag remains constant.

    To put it another way, if you drop two tennis balls off a cliff a second apart, they will land a second apart. The gap in height will continue to get larger until the first one bounces, but the lag is the same.

    Now, to be clear, I'm not saying the acceleration curves will remain the same.. I'm not projecting forwards. I'm just saying that IF the rates track the same, then the lag stays the same.
    If the UK or the EU runs into stronger supply, delivery, or demand headwinds, the lag will definitely change. But on banked data so far, it looks the same.
    Except they're not following the same acceleration curve so that's not relevant.

    They're already significantly behind our curve, from where we were at the same point, and the gap is accelerating. If they were keeping track with us but offset you'd have a point but they're not. On banked data they're not following our path.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    Is that in the highway code?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Endillion said:

    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Cancel culture rarely survives a plague
    Ideological mania can become too costly to maintain

    BY SEAN THOMAS"

    https://unherd.com/2021/01/after-a-plague-we-cant-afford-wokeness/

    Good piece. Very good writer isn`t he.

    "Compare this with the mobs on Twitter, or the more extreme BLM protests, where, if you don’t join in, or express support, you must be suspect." Indeed. Imagine what would happen to a lone footballer who decided not to partake in "taking the knee".
    This very sensible sounding chap seems to have managed:
    https://www.sportbible.com/football/football-news-football-lyle-taylor-hits-out-at-black-lives-matter-and-taking-knee-20210110
    Have we seen a white footballer take such a stand? I think the pressure to conform is overwhelming.
    The issue is unentangling anti-racism intent from the BLM organisation.

    When Lyle Taylor does that it is evidently with a knowledge and understanding of the organisation. I don't think many people have any idea of what BLM actually wants. They take or view the "knee" as being a display of anti-racism.

    I could probably live with the anti-racism symbolism continuing while people don't know or forget what BLM is for.

    The sight of black and white footballers making a tangible display of anti-racism is very heartening given the terraces don't always share the sentiment.
  • Boris diplomatic over EU spat and confident in our supplies and contracts and going ahead on that basis
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,678
    edited January 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Once again, halving cycle has accelerated. There is definitely now a detectable vaccine effect IMO. Hospitals and care homes have probably now got very little transmission because the people inside them are all immunised to at least some level. This is with around 2.4m people with partial or full immunity. As we start getting through to next week that number really explodes because that's when our vaccine programme took off.

    Very, very slowly the light at the end of the tunnel is becoming brighter. It's the first time I've looked at these numbers ever and felt that way, it's desperately sad for all of those people who have died or have close family/friends who have died, hopefully our rapid rate of vaccination will prevent too much more of this.

    Yes. If this new variant really is more transmissible then there must be another effect at play to get it down so quickly.

    It makes sense if the NHS was one of the primary sources of outbreaks - which seems entirely likely (and understandable) - and the staff are now mostly immune.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    More stupid questions from LauraK.

    Your fault for watching mate!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited January 2021
    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    /twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    LGBT+ history month? Don't we already have Pride month in June, surely that all about the history of LGBT rights movement.
  • MaxPB said:

    Once again, halving cycle has accelerated. There is definitely now a detectable vaccine effect IMO. Hospitals and care homes have probably now got very little transmission because the people inside them are all immunised to at least some level. This is with around 2.4m people with partial or full immunity. As we start getting through to next week that number really explodes because that's when our vaccine programme took off.

    Very, very slowly the light at the end of the tunnel is becoming brighter. It's the first time I've looked at these numbers ever and felt that way, it's desperately sad for all of those people who have died or have close family/friends who have died, hopefully our rapid rate of vaccination will prevent too much more of this.

    The gov.uk website have got rid of the rolling average plot for deaths but last time I looked, it was going down, with a peak of ca. 19th Jan.

    Cases on their way down from before the New Year.

    Just keep up the vaccination numbers and hold our nerve. Ignoring the press is a good strategy, I find.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    btw where's @ydoethur (and others)?

    Why do schools need two weeks notice to reopen?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Boris diplomatic over EU spat and confident in our supplies and contracts and going ahead on that basis

    Exactly the right response. We just need to keep concentrating on our own plan.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    MaxPB said:

    More stupid questions from LauraK.

    Your fault for watching mate!
    No! I was hoping for sensible questions from Vicki Young.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    We have serious problems brewing in this country.

    Sounds like a bomb scare disrupted production at one of the UK vaccine facilities today.
    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-bomb-disposal-unit-called-19710403

    We have reports of Covid deniers trying to "save" seriously ill patients from hospital.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/27/hospital-incursions-by-covid-deniers-putting-lives-at-risk-say-leaders

    Where's Priti? I thought there were serious penalties for interfering with blue light services? Not to mention trespass, assault, etc.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Floater said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Selebian said:

    According to the article, it's actually said that vaccines made in the UK should form part of the vaccines that the EU receives - that's not quite the same thing. If AZN is meeting it's (best efforts, presumably) contractual commitments to the UK then it would be expected that excess capacity would be used to meet contractual commitments elsewhere. It's surely inevitable that the UK factories will be sending some to the EU, at least in time, as the EU-based Pfizer factories are sending vaccines to us (as we have a contract to receive those).
    https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/

    “The UK agreement was reached in June, three months before the European one. As you could imagine, the UK government said the supply coming out of the UK supply chain would go to the UK first. Basically, that's how it is. In the EU agreement it is mentioned that the manufacturing sites in the UK were an option for Europe, but only later. But we're moving very quickly, the supply in the UK is very rapid. The government is vaccinating 2.5 million people a week, about 500,000 a day, our vaccine supply is growing quickly. As soon as we have reached a sufficient number of vaccinations in the UK, we will be able to use that site to help Europe as well. But the contract with the UK was signed first and the UK, of course, said “you supply us first”, and this is fair enough. This vaccine was developed with the UK government, Oxford and with us as well. As soon as we can, we'll help the EU. I mean, as a company we are half Swedish and half British. In fact, we're global, of course, but we are European as much as we are British".

    my bold
    I dont think we have sufficient vaccine or that our vaccine supply is growing quickly enough.

    Mrs BJO had her first jab today and the date of the 2nd jab was crossed out on the AZN card. The vaccine centre she visited said they had been told this morning not to hand out cards with 2nd jab dates on and to warn people it could be 20 weeks before the 2nd jab.

    "Government intends to give everyone a first jab before doing 2nd jabs at 12 weeks, and we have had to cross out appointment dates"
    We had our Pfizer vaccinations last Saturday and we had a card with the record of the first vaccination including the batch number, location and date

    The Doctor told us the next vaccination would be within 11 weeks and of course we were told to come back with the card to be updated then. There was no entry at all on the line under the first vaccination as they do not know the date, but neither the batch number or vaccination location. I do question your comment that the a card was filled in with a crossed out second date and this 20 week allegation

    If we take into account your comments on the fake news of 8% effectiveness of the AZ vaccine, then I do wonder whether you just want to make mischief in a subject that is far too serious for that
    Fuck off BigG i would never lie about what we were told that is a disgusting comment
    Yes hope you get an apology.
    There is no evidence that anyone has been given a 20 week wait and BJO's comments on the rumours about AZ and the 8% were an anti vaccine dream

    As has been said he should be reporting it to the media rather than swearing at me
    I have sent you a pm with the image of her appointment card.

    As the 20 week comment was verbal, do you wish to speak to Mrs BJ too or are you accusing her of being in on it

    If you refuse to apologize that says more about you than me TBH
    Other anecdotes on here suggest no one is getting an appointment date, so it isn't particularly unusual. The 20 week comment is strange, but doesn't seem consistent with what the NHS chief said today on the subject.
    Yes maybe it is strange.

    I have taken my mum my uncle and MrsBJ for jabs the first 2 definitely got appointment cards with date of 2nd dose on they were Pfizer cards though

    Anyway BigG has decided i have made the whole thing up

    I cannot tell you how disappointed i am with that.
    Just make sure you follow up if you don't hear back. Likewise for others without a firm date.
    Yep will do Rob

    I am off now to kick the cat!
    Son was told he would get an e mail for 2nd appointment - I think he said it would be in around 6 weeks from first - so nothing written on about 2nd date
    I was told I would receive a text
    He may have said text - I can't be absolutely sure - I knew it was not snail mail :-)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Boris diplomatic over EU spat and confident in our supplies and contracts and going ahead on that basis

    A good answer.
  • TOPPING said:

    Endillion said:

    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Cancel culture rarely survives a plague
    Ideological mania can become too costly to maintain

    BY SEAN THOMAS"

    https://unherd.com/2021/01/after-a-plague-we-cant-afford-wokeness/

    Good piece. Very good writer isn`t he.

    "Compare this with the mobs on Twitter, or the more extreme BLM protests, where, if you don’t join in, or express support, you must be suspect." Indeed. Imagine what would happen to a lone footballer who decided not to partake in "taking the knee".
    This very sensible sounding chap seems to have managed:
    https://www.sportbible.com/football/football-news-football-lyle-taylor-hits-out-at-black-lives-matter-and-taking-knee-20210110
    Have we seen a white footballer take such a stand? I think the pressure to conform is overwhelming.
    The issue is unentangling anti-racism intent from the BLM organisation.

    When Lyle Taylor does that it is evidently with a knowledge and understanding of the organisation. I don't think many people have any idea of what BLM actually wants. They take or view the "knee" as being a display of anti-racism.

    I could probably live with the anti-racism symbolism continuing while people don't know or forget what BLM is for.

    The sight of black and white footballers making a tangible display of anti-racism is very heartening given the terraces don't always share the sentiment.
    As I say, the NFL have.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    dixiedean said:

    We have serious problems brewing in this country.

    Sounds like a bomb scare disrupted production at one of the UK vaccine facilities today.
    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-bomb-disposal-unit-called-19710403

    We have reports of Covid deniers trying to "save" seriously ill patients from hospital.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/27/hospital-incursions-by-covid-deniers-putting-lives-at-risk-say-leaders

    Where's Priti? I thought there were serious penalties for interfering with blue light services? Not to mention trespass, assault, etc.
    Set up a 1 mile exclusion zone around the plant or something so this doesn't happen again FFS.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited January 2021

    More stupid questions from LauraK.

    You say that as if you are shocked. Its easier to report when there is a good question.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361

    MaxPB said:

    Once again, halving cycle has accelerated. There is definitely now a detectable vaccine effect IMO. Hospitals and care homes have probably now got very little transmission because the people inside them are all immunised to at least some level. This is with around 2.4m people with partial or full immunity. As we start getting through to next week that number really explodes because that's when our vaccine programme took off.

    Very, very slowly the light at the end of the tunnel is becoming brighter. It's the first time I've looked at these numbers ever and felt that way, it's desperately sad for all of those people who have died or have close family/friends who have died, hopefully our rapid rate of vaccination will prevent too much more of this.

    The gov.uk website have got rid of the rolling average plot for deaths but last time I looked, it was going down, with a peak of ca. 19th Jan.

    Cases on their way down from before the New Year.

    Just keep up the vaccination numbers and hold our nerve. Ignoring the press is a good strategy, I find.
    UK deaths

    image
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,479
    kle4 said:
    If it means they're still alive, quite happy I'd imagine.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    dixiedean said:

    We have serious problems brewing in this country.

    Sounds like a bomb scare disrupted production at one of the UK vaccine facilities today.
    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-bomb-disposal-unit-called-19710403

    We have reports of Covid deniers trying to "save" seriously ill patients from hospital.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/27/hospital-incursions-by-covid-deniers-putting-lives-at-risk-say-leaders

    Where's Priti? I thought there were serious penalties for interfering with blue light services? Not to mention trespass, assault, etc.
    Set up a 1 mile exclusion zone around the plant or something so this doesn't happen again FFS.
    Indeed. It also shows why the government are being so careful with supply chain, storage and distribution information. The last thing we need is for these arseholes to burn down a storage warehouse or supplier warehouse.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    We have serious problems brewing in this country.

    Sounds like a bomb scare disrupted production at one of the UK vaccine facilities today.
    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-bomb-disposal-unit-called-19710403

    We have reports of Covid deniers trying to "save" seriously ill patients from hospital.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/27/hospital-incursions-by-covid-deniers-putting-lives-at-risk-say-leaders

    Where's Priti? I thought there were serious penalties for interfering with blue light services? Not to mention trespass, assault, etc.
    Set up a 1 mile exclusion zone around the plant or something so this doesn't happen again FFS.
    Indeed. It also shows why the government are being so careful with supply chain, storage and distribution information. The last thing we need is for these arseholes to burn down a storage warehouse or supplier warehouse.
    Better not tell the Scottish health minister then.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Just awful - and as you say we saw GOP figures urging them on.
  • Re the kneeling...when they had fans back, booing was reported as definitely being racist and many clubs implemented a policy that anybody booing during it would be banned for life.

    Now I think a fair amount of the idiots booing were probably racist (or started by a racist and mob behaviour kicks in). But I think it is far from universal that everybody thinks that clubs and tv stations should be supporting specifically BLM.

    Again the NFL have distanced themselves from it. They have come up with other slogans and ways to show support. I think their "Inspire Change" is a much more positive slogan. In the first weeks of the season they asked players to all join arms rather than kneel.

    Is the Premier League kneeling even associated with BLM anymore? I thought they'd broken that link and were "kneeling against racism" using their own pre existing Kick It Out program now?

    Unless you're in favour of racism k see no issues with that.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,423
    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    I do like to see a bit of colour around, but the last time I saw a crossing like this there were people lying on it for photos, without regard to what the lights were.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,479
    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    Yes, I think it's quite jolly. Better to put things up (or paint them in this case) than tear things down.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,755
    RobD said:

    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    Is that in the highway code?
    I'd be surprised :wink: Private property (presumably) so they can do whatever markings they want, but private road owners normally follow the public road conventions for obvious reasons - as @Gallowgate points out, that's the concern. Like the raised crossing areas you sometimes see in high streets, often with different surface, but no zebra, and no one is quite sure who has right of way. I assume there will be crossing signs as well and I guess people will get used to it, if it becomes a permanent feature rather than just for the month - skimming the campus map, I don't think it's a road for through-traffic
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Floater said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Selebian said:

    According to the article, it's actually said that vaccines made in the UK should form part of the vaccines that the EU receives - that's not quite the same thing. If AZN is meeting it's (best efforts, presumably) contractual commitments to the UK then it would be expected that excess capacity would be used to meet contractual commitments elsewhere. It's surely inevitable that the UK factories will be sending some to the EU, at least in time, as the EU-based Pfizer factories are sending vaccines to us (as we have a contract to receive those).
    https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/

    “The UK agreement was reached in June, three months before the European one. As you could imagine, the UK government said the supply coming out of the UK supply chain would go to the UK first. Basically, that's how it is. In the EU agreement it is mentioned that the manufacturing sites in the UK were an option for Europe, but only later. But we're moving very quickly, the supply in the UK is very rapid. The government is vaccinating 2.5 million people a week, about 500,000 a day, our vaccine supply is growing quickly. As soon as we have reached a sufficient number of vaccinations in the UK, we will be able to use that site to help Europe as well. But the contract with the UK was signed first and the UK, of course, said “you supply us first”, and this is fair enough. This vaccine was developed with the UK government, Oxford and with us as well. As soon as we can, we'll help the EU. I mean, as a company we are half Swedish and half British. In fact, we're global, of course, but we are European as much as we are British".

    my bold
    I dont think we have sufficient vaccine or that our vaccine supply is growing quickly enough.

    Mrs BJO had her first jab today and the date of the 2nd jab was crossed out on the AZN card. The vaccine centre she visited said they had been told this morning not to hand out cards with 2nd jab dates on and to warn people it could be 20 weeks before the 2nd jab.

    "Government intends to give everyone a first jab before doing 2nd jabs at 12 weeks, and we have had to cross out appointment dates"
    We had our Pfizer vaccinations last Saturday and we had a card with the record of the first vaccination including the batch number, location and date

    The Doctor told us the next vaccination would be within 11 weeks and of course we were told to come back with the card to be updated then. There was no entry at all on the line under the first vaccination as they do not know the date, but neither the batch number or vaccination location. I do question your comment that the a card was filled in with a crossed out second date and this 20 week allegation

    If we take into account your comments on the fake news of 8% effectiveness of the AZ vaccine, then I do wonder whether you just want to make mischief in a subject that is far too serious for that
    Fuck off BigG i would never lie about what we were told that is a disgusting comment
    Yes hope you get an apology.
    There is no evidence that anyone has been given a 20 week wait and BJO's comments on the rumours about AZ and the 8% were an anti vaccine dream

    As has been said he should be reporting it to the media rather than swearing at me
    I have sent you a pm with the image of her appointment card.

    As the 20 week comment was verbal, do you wish to speak to Mrs BJ too or are you accusing her of being in on it

    If you refuse to apologize that says more about you than me TBH
    Other anecdotes on here suggest no one is getting an appointment date, so it isn't particularly unusual. The 20 week comment is strange, but doesn't seem consistent with what the NHS chief said today on the subject.
    Yes maybe it is strange.

    I have taken my mum my uncle and MrsBJ for jabs the first 2 definitely got appointment cards with date of 2nd dose on they were Pfizer cards though

    Anyway BigG has decided i have made the whole thing up

    I cannot tell you how disappointed i am with that.
    Just make sure you follow up if you don't hear back. Likewise for others without a firm date.
    Yep will do Rob

    I am off now to kick the cat!
    Son was told he would get an e mail for 2nd appointment - I think he said it would be in around 6 weeks from first - so nothing written on about 2nd date
    I was told I would receive a text
    NHS Wales are sending letters. I have seen one from one of those in a high risk group who has had a first Pfizer jab last week.Second dose was scheduled for first week of April.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,590
    Doesn't the EU have an agreement with Pfizer as well? I don't understand their obsession with the AZ vaccine.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    I do like to see a bit of colour around, but the last time I saw a crossing like this there were people lying on it for photos, without regard to what the lights were.
    The one near Old Street station was treacherously slippery in the rain, which was basically everyday.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    And yet the main instigator of this will be able to run again in 2024 thanks to the GOP leadership.

    I hope history tears these people's reputations to pieces for all time.
  • And yet the main instigator of this will be able to run again in 2024 thanks to the GOP leadership.

    I hope history tears these people's reputations to pieces for all time.
    The GOP and Trump are unindicted co-conspirators.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    Hang on, is this different to Pride month?

    Or is Woke virtue-signalling just an all year long affair now with just a different "event" for each calendar month?
  • Floater said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Selebian said:

    According to the article, it's actually said that vaccines made in the UK should form part of the vaccines that the EU receives - that's not quite the same thing. If AZN is meeting it's (best efforts, presumably) contractual commitments to the UK then it would be expected that excess capacity would be used to meet contractual commitments elsewhere. It's surely inevitable that the UK factories will be sending some to the EU, at least in time, as the EU-based Pfizer factories are sending vaccines to us (as we have a contract to receive those).
    https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/

    “The UK agreement was reached in June, three months before the European one. As you could imagine, the UK government said the supply coming out of the UK supply chain would go to the UK first. Basically, that's how it is. In the EU agreement it is mentioned that the manufacturing sites in the UK were an option for Europe, but only later. But we're moving very quickly, the supply in the UK is very rapid. The government is vaccinating 2.5 million people a week, about 500,000 a day, our vaccine supply is growing quickly. As soon as we have reached a sufficient number of vaccinations in the UK, we will be able to use that site to help Europe as well. But the contract with the UK was signed first and the UK, of course, said “you supply us first”, and this is fair enough. This vaccine was developed with the UK government, Oxford and with us as well. As soon as we can, we'll help the EU. I mean, as a company we are half Swedish and half British. In fact, we're global, of course, but we are European as much as we are British".

    my bold
    I dont think we have sufficient vaccine or that our vaccine supply is growing quickly enough.

    Mrs BJO had her first jab today and the date of the 2nd jab was crossed out on the AZN card. The vaccine centre she visited said they had been told this morning not to hand out cards with 2nd jab dates on and to warn people it could be 20 weeks before the 2nd jab.

    "Government intends to give everyone a first jab before doing 2nd jabs at 12 weeks, and we have had to cross out appointment dates"
    We had our Pfizer vaccinations last Saturday and we had a card with the record of the first vaccination including the batch number, location and date

    The Doctor told us the next vaccination would be within 11 weeks and of course we were told to come back with the card to be updated then. There was no entry at all on the line under the first vaccination as they do not know the date, but neither the batch number or vaccination location. I do question your comment that the a card was filled in with a crossed out second date and this 20 week allegation

    If we take into account your comments on the fake news of 8% effectiveness of the AZ vaccine, then I do wonder whether you just want to make mischief in a subject that is far too serious for that
    Fuck off BigG i would never lie about what we were told that is a disgusting comment
    Yes hope you get an apology.
    There is no evidence that anyone has been given a 20 week wait and BJO's comments on the rumours about AZ and the 8% were an anti vaccine dream

    As has been said he should be reporting it to the media rather than swearing at me
    I have sent you a pm with the image of her appointment card.

    As the 20 week comment was verbal, do you wish to speak to Mrs BJ too or are you accusing her of being in on it

    If you refuse to apologize that says more about you than me TBH
    Other anecdotes on here suggest no one is getting an appointment date, so it isn't particularly unusual. The 20 week comment is strange, but doesn't seem consistent with what the NHS chief said today on the subject.
    Yes maybe it is strange.

    I have taken my mum my uncle and MrsBJ for jabs the first 2 definitely got appointment cards with date of 2nd dose on they were Pfizer cards though

    Anyway BigG has decided i have made the whole thing up

    I cannot tell you how disappointed i am with that.
    Just make sure you follow up if you don't hear back. Likewise for others without a firm date.
    Yep will do Rob

    I am off now to kick the cat!
    Son was told he would get an e mail for 2nd appointment - I think he said it would be in around 6 weeks from first - so nothing written on about 2nd date
    I was told I would receive a text
    NHS Wales are sending letters. I have seen one from one of those in a high risk group who has had a first Pfizer jab last week.Second dose was scheduled for first week of April.
    Actually I received a phone call to my mobile from our surgery to attend the vaccination next day, and on registration at the vaccination centre I was offered letter, e mail or text for our second vaccination date
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Re the kneeling...when they had fans back, booing was reported as definitely being racist and many clubs implemented a policy that anybody booing during it would be banned for life.

    Now I think a fair amount of the idiots booing were probably racist (or started by a racist and mob behaviour kicks in). But I think it is far from universal that everybody thinks that clubs and tv stations should be supporting specifically BLM.

    Again the NFL have distanced themselves from it. They have come up with other slogans and ways to show support. I think their "Inspire Change" is a much more positive slogan. In the first weeks of the season they asked players to all join arms rather than kneel.

    Is the Premier League kneeling even associated with BLM anymore? I thought they'd broken that link and were "kneeling against racism" using their own pre existing Kick It Out program now?

    Unless you're in favour of racism k see no issues with that.
    Exactly. Stop 10 people in the street and 11 would have no idea of anything about BLM save that the footballers are making a stand (!!) against racism.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,678
    edited January 2021

    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    Yes, I think it's quite jolly. Better to put things up (or paint them in this case) than tear things down.
    If that is where I think it is (and I'm pretty sure I'm right, as I've been to the University quite a few times), it is the exit/entrance to a car park. So private property and cars already going slow.

    Carry on...
  • Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    Hang on, is this different to Pride month?

    Or is Woke virtue-signalling just an all year long affair now with just a different "event" for each calendar month?
    Yes, it is different to pride month.

    One is to educate, one is to party.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Andy_JS said:

    Doesn't the EU have an agreement with Pfizer as well? I don't understand their obsession with the AZ vaccine.

    They only have 100m Pfizer doses scheduled in the short term for 400m people. They've signed new contracts to increase the number significantly but that supply is a while away. AZ were supposed to supply 80m doses in Q1 of this year but due to production issues there's only 31m available in that timeframe. Moderna are supplying "hundreds of thousands" of doses until the middle of March from their pilot production line but from April they will do 80m for the EU and 17m for the UK.

    It means that instead of having 200m or so doses for Q1, they're going to get less than half of that because Pfizer are also having production issues. Again, the terms of the EU contracts is known to prioritise price of supply guarantees while the UK, US and Israel have done the latter and paid lots more money per dose to Pfizer but have been given minimum supply guarantees.

    Ultimately, it's a problem of their own making and now they are trying to Scapegoat AZ as a "British" pharma company looking after the UK government.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,442
    We will actually have to go to war, won't we?

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1354465173638098944?s=20
  • Boris very calm and professional in response to journalists questions on the EU - AZ spat
  • The Democrats should make this the prime focus of the Supreme Court trial. Less about Trump, more about the damage. The Police Officer who lost his eye, the widow (?) of the one who died etc - show the human side of the suffering these attacks caused.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Andy_JS said:

    Doesn't the EU have an agreement with Pfizer as well? I don't understand their obsession with the AZ vaccine.

    A lot of countries have been counting on the much easier logistics of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    Hang on, is this different to Pride month?

    Or is Woke virtue-signalling just an all year long affair now with just a different "event" for each calendar month?
    Yes, it is different to pride month.

    One is to educate, one is to party.
    So we agree it's Woke creep then.

    Last year, Pride "month" started in late May and didn't fizzle out until mid July.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    Leon said:

    We will actually have to go to war, won't we?

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1354465173638098944?s=20

    Unless they invade Wrexham how do the EU get the vaccines out of this country.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    rcs1000 said:

    This week, as in today, tomorrow or Friday, J&J will announce results. I know I've said this before, but this means global vaccine supply is going to more than double overnight (when one considers the single dose nature).

    Novavax has also said that it expects to release results before the end of January.

    Production of Pfizer, Moderna, and AZN vaccines are ramping up.

    Gamelaya is going to release non-Russian data shortly, and that is also expected to be positive.

    The world is going to go from being massively undersupplied vaccines, to having quite a few, to having more than there are people. And that will all happen between now and May.

    Remarkable. Hopefully nations are prepared for the glut and can rollout quickly, but at least the main problem will have gone.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Turnabout's fair play.

    It's very easy to remain calm and reasonable if your opponent flips their shit. I'm surprised the EU didn't realise that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    Hang on, is this different to Pride month?

    Or is Woke virtue-signalling just an all year long affair now with just a different "event" for each calendar month?
    Yes, it is different to pride month.

    One is to educate, one is to party.
    So we agree it's Woke creep then.

    Last year, Pride "month" started in late May and didn't fizzle out until mid July.
    How could you possibly object to society's move away from bigotry and prejudice?
  • MaxPB said:


    ...
    This whole thing was so predictable when the commission took everything over, the lack of production subsidies is really what the issue is in the EU. Both the UK and US took a proactive approach and subsidised it's industries to ensure domestic supply and eventually oversupply. The EU relied on the free market, it was the wrong approach and instead of fixing the original problem they are making threats.

    Yes, I think that is the crucial point. The UK (and I think also the US with Operation Warp Speed) took a gamble early on by putting money into production capacity without knowing whether the vaccines would actually work and be safe. It was a well-judged gamble (thanks, Kate Bingham) which has been spectacularly successful. At worst, we might have wasted a few hundred million quid, but that's nothing in the context of this pandemic, and as it has turned out, we've gained months. The EU was very late to that game, and is now unfortunately left behind.
    Months? AIUI, the EU is three weeks behind as of the most recent data. 2% as of 24th January, versus the UK's 2% as of 3rd January.
    Yes, but the running rate in the UK is now miles faster, and will stay that way for some time.
    What matters in terms of how far behind is the UK's current rate versus the EU's rate in 3 weeks. If the EU curve has the same shape as the UK's it will remain 3 weeks behind. Steeper, it will be less behind, and shallower, further. I don't know what the coming weeks will hold for vaccination rates, but the fairest metric today is 3 weeks.

    Obviously the EU's not going to overtake the UK's vaccinations (by proportion of population vaccinated) anytime soon, probably ever. But "months behind" is probably an exaggeration right now.
    No, months is accurate.

    The question to ask is at what point they will reach the stage where we are today. 3 weeks ago they were 3 weeks behind, as they've only just caught up with where we were 3 weeks ago. But that doesn't mean they're still 3 weeks behind now. Unless something dramatically changes they're going to take months now to catch up to >10 doses per 100 people.

    Two trains set off from the same location, one travelling at 60 miles per hour, one travelling at 30 miles an hour. After an hour train one has travelled 60 miles. By the time train 2 has travelled 60 miles, train 1 has now travelled 120 miles; train 2 is now 60 miles behind car, which is 2 hours behind - not half an hour or one hour.
    No, you're wrong, sorry. If a train leaves half an hour after another one and follows the same acceleration curve, it will always be half an hour behind. The distance will keep getting larger, but the lag remains constant.

    To put it another way, if you drop two tennis balls off a cliff a second apart, they will land a second apart. The gap in height will continue to get larger until the first one bounces, but the lag is the same.

    Now, to be clear, I'm not saying the acceleration curves will remain the same.. I'm not projecting forwards. I'm just saying that IF the rates track the same, then the lag stays the same.
    If the UK or the EU runs into stronger supply, delivery, or demand headwinds, the lag will definitely change. But on banked data so far, it looks the same.
    Except they're not following the same acceleration curve so that's not relevant.

    They're already significantly behind our curve, from where we were at the same point, and the gap is accelerating. If they were keeping track with us but offset you'd have a point but they're not. On banked data they're not following our path.
    December 20th - January 3rd (2 weeks) UK went from 1% to 2%
    January 11th - January 25th (2 weeks) EU went from (just under) 1% to 2%.

    Same delta time, slightly higher delta N for the EU
    So the EU is increasing its coverage by 0.5 percentage points per week. Three weeks ago, the UK was doing the exactly the same.

    So yes, in actual fact, the paths for the limited amount of data we have map very well to a 3 week lag.
    See for yourself:
    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1354456494578819079

    Just shift the EU line left by 3 weeks.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    And yet the main instigator of this will be able to run again in 2024 thanks to the GOP leadership.

    I hope history tears these people's reputations to pieces for all time.
    And others are remarkably keen to say it is all in the past and not worth it because, er, it's hard and might not work. Compelling.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Vaccine output at Wrexham restarts.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55822838
  • Endillion said:

    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Cancel culture rarely survives a plague
    Ideological mania can become too costly to maintain

    BY SEAN THOMAS"

    https://unherd.com/2021/01/after-a-plague-we-cant-afford-wokeness/

    Good piece. Very good writer isn`t he.

    "Compare this with the mobs on Twitter, or the more extreme BLM protests, where, if you don’t join in, or express support, you must be suspect." Indeed. Imagine what would happen to a lone footballer who decided not to partake in "taking the knee".
    This very sensible sounding chap seems to have managed:
    https://www.sportbible.com/football/football-news-football-lyle-taylor-hits-out-at-black-lives-matter-and-taking-knee-20210110
    Have we seen a white footballer take such a stand? I think the pressure to conform is overwhelming.
    Christian Zimmerman. Again gave some interviews, the world didnt cave in.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    JVT just said 'I don't think there ARE clear data.'

    Top bloke.

    The government site on vaccinations is the same. There is many people happy about that.
  • Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    Hang on, is this different to Pride month?

    Or is Woke virtue-signalling just an all year long affair now with just a different "event" for each calendar month?
    Yes, it is different to pride month.

    One is to educate, one is to party.
    So we agree it's Woke creep then.

    Last year, Pride "month" started in late May and didn't fizzle out until mid July.
    But when is international men's day?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    Hang on, is this different to Pride month?

    Or is Woke virtue-signalling just an all year long affair now with just a different "event" for each calendar month?
    Yes, it is different to pride month.

    One is to educate, one is to party.
    So we agree it's Woke creep then.

    Last year, Pride "month" started in late May and didn't fizzle out until mid July.
    How could you possibly object to society's move away from bigotry and prejudice?
    Bingo!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    RobD said:

    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    Is that in the highway code?
    Yes, I'd be worried it was no longer legal, highways people can be remarkably precise about how things must be.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    Hang on, is this different to Pride month?

    Or is Woke virtue-signalling just an all year long affair now with just a different "event" for each calendar month?
    Yes, it is different to pride month.

    One is to educate, one is to party.
    So we agree it's Woke creep then.

    Last year, Pride "month" started in late May and didn't fizzle out until mid July.
    How could you possibly object to society's move away from bigotry and prejudice?
    And that's why it's done, ladies and gentlemen.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,442
    The EU is losing its collective mind


    https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1354483646602817540?s=20


    They are threatening us, in an overtly hostile way, because THEY fucked up their vaccine contracts, by giving them to the stupid EU Commission
  • Selebian said:

    Those who enjoyed a student conference at he University of York dropping a three wise monkeys image due to perceived/imagined racism may also enjoy this:
    https://twitter.com/UniOfYork/status/1354464624633139203?s=20

    Two thoughts: (i) it should at least get drivers' attention, even if they're not sure what it means (ii) there won't be that many drivers (nor pedestrians) at present

    Hang on, is this different to Pride month?

    Or is Woke virtue-signalling just an all year long affair now with just a different "event" for each calendar month?
    Yes, it is different to pride month.

    One is to educate, one is to party.
    So we agree it's Woke creep then.

    Last year, Pride "month" started in late May and didn't fizzle out until mid July.
    No it isn't.

    I have some young gay and LGBTI+ friends.

    They didn't know that for example that being gay wasn't decriminalised in Scotland & Northern Ireland until the 80s.

    That section 28 was a thing.

    Plenty of their young heterosexual friends didn't know that either.

    Most of them didn't know about Section 28 as well.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    .

    MaxPB said:


    ...
    This whole thing was so predictable when the commission took everything over, the lack of production subsidies is really what the issue is in the EU. Both the UK and US took a proactive approach and subsidised it's industries to ensure domestic supply and eventually oversupply. The EU relied on the free market, it was the wrong approach and instead of fixing the original problem they are making threats.

    Yes, I think that is the crucial point. The UK (and I think also the US with Operation Warp Speed) took a gamble early on by putting money into production capacity without knowing whether the vaccines would actually work and be safe. It was a well-judged gamble (thanks, Kate Bingham) which has been spectacularly successful. At worst, we might have wasted a few hundred million quid, but that's nothing in the context of this pandemic, and as it has turned out, we've gained months. The EU was very late to that game, and is now unfortunately left behind.
    Months? AIUI, the EU is three weeks behind as of the most recent data. 2% as of 24th January, versus the UK's 2% as of 3rd January.
    Yes, but the running rate in the UK is now miles faster, and will stay that way for some time.
    What matters in terms of how far behind is the UK's current rate versus the EU's rate in 3 weeks. If the EU curve has the same shape as the UK's it will remain 3 weeks behind. Steeper, it will be less behind, and shallower, further. I don't know what the coming weeks will hold for vaccination rates, but the fairest metric today is 3 weeks.

    Obviously the EU's not going to overtake the UK's vaccinations (by proportion of population vaccinated) anytime soon, probably ever. But "months behind" is probably an exaggeration right now.
    No, months is accurate.

    The question to ask is at what point they will reach the stage where we are today. 3 weeks ago they were 3 weeks behind, as they've only just caught up with where we were 3 weeks ago. But that doesn't mean they're still 3 weeks behind now. Unless something dramatically changes they're going to take months now to catch up to >10 doses per 100 people.

    Two trains set off from the same location, one travelling at 60 miles per hour, one travelling at 30 miles an hour. After an hour train one has travelled 60 miles. By the time train 2 has travelled 60 miles, train 1 has now travelled 120 miles; train 2 is now 60 miles behind car, which is 2 hours behind - not half an hour or one hour.
    No, you're wrong, sorry. If a train leaves half an hour after another one and follows the same acceleration curve, it will always be half an hour behind. The distance will keep getting larger, but the lag remains constant.

    To put it another way, if you drop two tennis balls off a cliff a second apart, they will land a second apart. The gap in height will continue to get larger until the first one bounces, but the lag is the same.

    Now, to be clear, I'm not saying the acceleration curves will remain the same.. I'm not projecting forwards. I'm just saying that IF the rates track the same, then the lag stays the same.
    If the UK or the EU runs into stronger supply, delivery, or demand headwinds, the lag will definitely change. But on banked data so far, it looks the same.
    Except they're not following the same acceleration curve so that's not relevant.

    They're already significantly behind our curve, from where we were at the same point, and the gap is accelerating. If they were keeping track with us but offset you'd have a point but they're not. On banked data they're not following our path.
    December 20th - January 3rd (2 weeks) UK went from 1% to 2%
    January 11th - January 25th (2 weeks) EU went from (just under) 1% to 2%.

    Same delta time, slightly higher delta N for the EU
    So the EU is increasing its coverage by 0.5 percentage points per week. Three weeks ago, the UK was doing the exactly the same.

    So yes, in actual fact, the paths for the limited amount of data we have map very well to a 3 week lag.
    See for yourself:
    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1354456494578819079

    Just shift the EU line left by 3 weeks.
    They are not even keeping their current rate; it's almost completely stopped in Spain and Italy, for example.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    kle4 said:

    JVT just said 'I don't think there ARE clear data.'

    Top bloke.

    The government site on vaccinations is the same. There is many people happy about that.
    The less people who misuse "data" the better.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,697
    According to the FT, the EU Commission was paying over twice as much for the Sanofi vaccine with nothing to show for it so far. Yet somehow the villain is the successful Oxford/AstraZeneca scheme?

    https://www.ft.com/content/95c49b5a-f2c7-49a3-9ac5-3e7a66e3ad6b
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    Leon said:

    The EU is losing its collective mind


    https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1354483646602817540?s=20


    They are threatening us, in an overtly hostile way, because THEY fucked up their vaccine contracts, by giving them to the stupid EU Commission

    He sounds like an idiot.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    And yet the main instigator of this will be able to run again in 2024 thanks to the GOP leadership.

    I hope history tears these people's reputations to pieces for all time.
    It will, but they will have alternative histories in which they are principled heroes.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831

    MaxPB said:


    ...
    This whole thing was so predictable when the commission took everything over, the lack of production subsidies is really what the issue is in the EU. Both the UK and US took a proactive approach and subsidised it's industries to ensure domestic supply and eventually oversupply. The EU relied on the free market, it was the wrong approach and instead of fixing the original problem they are making threats.

    Yes, I think that is the crucial point. The UK (and I think also the US with Operation Warp Speed) took a gamble early on by putting money into production capacity without knowing whether the vaccines would actually work and be safe. It was a well-judged gamble (thanks, Kate Bingham) which has been spectacularly successful. At worst, we might have wasted a few hundred million quid, but that's nothing in the context of this pandemic, and as it has turned out, we've gained months. The EU was very late to that game, and is now unfortunately left behind.
    Months? AIUI, the EU is three weeks behind as of the most recent data. 2% as of 24th January, versus the UK's 2% as of 3rd January.
    Yes, but the running rate in the UK is now miles faster, and will stay that way for some time.
    What matters in terms of how far behind is the UK's current rate versus the EU's rate in 3 weeks. If the EU curve has the same shape as the UK's it will remain 3 weeks behind. Steeper, it will be less behind, and shallower, further. I don't know what the coming weeks will hold for vaccination rates, but the fairest metric today is 3 weeks.

    Obviously the EU's not going to overtake the UK's vaccinations (by proportion of population vaccinated) anytime soon, probably ever. But "months behind" is probably an exaggeration right now.
    No, months is accurate.

    The question to ask is at what point they will reach the stage where we are today. 3 weeks ago they were 3 weeks behind, as they've only just caught up with where we were 3 weeks ago. But that doesn't mean they're still 3 weeks behind now. Unless something dramatically changes they're going to take months now to catch up to >10 doses per 100 people.

    Two trains set off from the same location, one travelling at 60 miles per hour, one travelling at 30 miles an hour. After an hour train one has travelled 60 miles. By the time train 2 has travelled 60 miles, train 1 has now travelled 120 miles; train 2 is now 60 miles behind car, which is 2 hours behind - not half an hour or one hour.
    No, you're wrong, sorry. If a train leaves half an hour after another one and follows the same acceleration curve, it will always be half an hour behind. The distance will keep getting larger, but the lag remains constant.

    To put it another way, if you drop two tennis balls off a cliff a second apart, they will land a second apart. The gap in height will continue to get larger until the first one bounces, but the lag is the same.

    Now, to be clear, I'm not saying the acceleration curves will remain the same.. I'm not projecting forwards. I'm just saying that IF the rates track the same, then the lag stays the same.
    If the UK or the EU runs into stronger supply, delivery, or demand headwinds, the lag will definitely change. But on banked data so far, it looks the same.
    Except they're not following the same acceleration curve so that's not relevant.

    They're already significantly behind our curve, from where we were at the same point, and the gap is accelerating. If they were keeping track with us but offset you'd have a point but they're not. On banked data they're not following our path.
    December 20th - January 3rd (2 weeks) UK went from 1% to 2%
    January 11th - January 25th (2 weeks) EU went from (just under) 1% to 2%.

    Same delta time, slightly higher delta N for the EU
    So the EU is increasing its coverage by 0.5 percentage points per week. Three weeks ago, the UK was doing the exactly the same.

    So yes, in actual fact, the paths for the limited amount of data we have map very well to a 3 week lag.
    See for yourself:
    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1354456494578819079

    Just shift the EU line left by 3 weeks.
    Yeah but where's the equivalent of the UK's acceleration from that 2% point going to come from if the supplies aren't there?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,442

    According to the FT, the EU Commission was paying over twice as much for the Sanofi vaccine with nothing to show for it so far. Yet somehow the villain is the successful Oxford/AstraZeneca scheme?

    https://www.ft.com/content/95c49b5a-f2c7-49a3-9ac5-3e7a66e3ad6b

    Does this behaviour make you question your slavish loyalty to the EU, ever-so-slightly?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited January 2021
    There's more:

    https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1354484474545909766?s=20

    I wonder what the "good news from today" is?
This discussion has been closed.