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Best of three. What of a fresh Scottish independence referendum? – politicalbetting.com

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  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,456
    Andy_JS said:

    RobD said:

    glw said:

    If the EU actually block an export of vaccine to the UK right now then we might as well tear up the deal with the EU as it would have been proven worthless in less than a month.

    That's possibly understating the seriousness. Banning vaccine exports to the UK would be something close to an act of war and HMG should make that very clear to the EU.
    Let us not get ahead of ourselves. Nothing has actually happened yet.

    We are some distance from the point at which we send the Belgian ambassador home with a flea in his ear, let alone attempt to blockade Antwerp with our feeble navy.

    The EU won't be that silly. Common sense will prevail.

    Probably.
    They can block exports at their peril. It isn't just the UK they are exporting to.
    I'm tempted at this juncture to say that they'd probably take great pleasure in confiscating supplies intended for the UK to use themselves, whilst letting the Americans and others have theirs. But in truth that's a preposterous scenario.

    Probably.
    Does anyone know how much of the Pfizer vaccine we already have in the UK, ready to use?
    I believe HMG has been deliberately evasive on that question, not wanting people to know how much or where it is stored for obvious security reasons.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    So it's not '8% effective' it's 'Over 65s made only 8% of the sample' - that's an error and a bloody half if true.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Is there not a big unfinished vaccine please somewhere in England? Also one being built in Livingston in Scotland I think - need to get all these up and running, not just to ensure supply, but hopefully to export elsewhere to help other countries.

    There's a large vaccine research and production facility under construction near Oxford. Was at the planning stage when Covid kicked off. Hancock threw a load of money at it and told them to hurry up.

    https://www.vmicuk.com/
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,456

    Leon said:

    A slight rowing back (tho not total) from Handelsblatt

    https://twitter.com/washingtonski/status/1353841867029438465?s=20

    https://twitter.com/washingtonski/status/1353841883840184320?s=19

    Reported like political tittle tattle, when far more important than that.

    Interesting that the mainstream international media do not appear to have run with this story yet. Will be interesting to see what the picture is tomorrow. But I guess we don't have to wait to know what the Express' line will be. They might be calling HYUFD for input on the invasion plan.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114
    edited January 2021
    If that is the source of all this baloney, some very public and very humiliating sacking needs to happen to the journos involved.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817
    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    RobD said:

    glw said:

    If the EU actually block an export of vaccine to the UK right now then we might as well tear up the deal with the EU as it would have been proven worthless in less than a month.

    That's possibly understating the seriousness. Banning vaccine exports to the UK would be something close to an act of war and HMG should make that very clear to the EU.
    Let us not get ahead of ourselves. Nothing has actually happened yet.

    We are some distance from the point at which we send the Belgian ambassador home with a flea in his ear, let alone attempt to blockade Antwerp with our feeble navy.

    The EU won't be that silly. Common sense will prevail.

    Probably.
    They can block exports at their peril. It isn't just the UK they are exporting to.
    I'm tempted at this juncture to say that they'd probably take great pleasure in confiscating supplies intended for the UK to use themselves, whilst letting the Americans and others have theirs. But in truth that's a preposterous scenario.

    Probably.
    Does anyone know how much of the Pfizer vaccine we already have in the UK, ready to use?
    I believe HMG has been deliberately evasive on that question, not wanting people to know how much or where it is stored for obvious security reasons.
    And rightly so. The precise location of the stockpile shouldn't be public knowledge.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,350
    So it's now clear - the EU are trying to kill our Nanas and Gramps.

    Bastards.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,325

    Yokes said:

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:
    So the veil is lifted and that's what this is about, they hate our success. They want us to fail because they are failing, it's nothing more than that.
    Time for Johnson to summon the Belgian ambassador?
    I believe the AZ vaccine for UK use is being produced from frozen product in Wales so that hopefully address that. There seems few doubts based on Israeli data however that Pfizers one is quite a product.

    I'm curious as where the AZ stock for Europe was intended to be produced
    That was covered earlier. There's a plant in Belgium (not the same one as Pfizer's) which is apparently having production difficulties. AZ are attributing their failure to supply the EU the full amount on time to this.
    Novasep I understand is producing active product that is then filled, but I'm not clear whether that fill is by them or elsewhere. That would suggest that anyone in Europe is going to hit issues with AZ supply if Novasep are short. The UK probably got a head start with pre approval frozen stock and initial ships of fresh active ingredient unless there is other active ingredient production elsewhere that the UK is drawing on.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    This seems significant. I assume there is still trial data reporting that the EMA will have sight of that wasn't available for the MHRA?

    On the other hand it could just be the German government trying to reassure its population that they aren't missing much by not getting the AZ vaccine yet.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,403
    Good progress on vaccination here in SW London (Chessington). Wife who is in the shielding group just got a text offering an appointment for Friday
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    So it's now clear - the EU are trying to kill our Nanas and Gramps.

    Bastards.

    It's a unique but slightly flawed plan to encourage us to rejoin
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    RobD said:

    glw said:

    If the EU actually block an export of vaccine to the UK right now then we might as well tear up the deal with the EU as it would have been proven worthless in less than a month.

    That's possibly understating the seriousness. Banning vaccine exports to the UK would be something close to an act of war and HMG should make that very clear to the EU.
    Let us not get ahead of ourselves. Nothing has actually happened yet.

    We are some distance from the point at which we send the Belgian ambassador home with a flea in his ear, let alone attempt to blockade Antwerp with our feeble navy.

    The EU won't be that silly. Common sense will prevail.

    Probably.
    They can block exports at their peril. It isn't just the UK they are exporting to.
    I'm tempted at this juncture to say that they'd probably take great pleasure in confiscating supplies intended for the UK to use themselves, whilst letting the Americans and others have theirs. But in truth that's a preposterous scenario.

    Probably.
    Does anyone know how much of the Pfizer vaccine we already have in the UK, ready to use?
    I believe HMG has been deliberately evasive on that question, not wanting people to know how much or where it is stored for obvious security reasons.
    Commercial sensitivity as well, essentially to avoid these kinds of situations where one country accuses a manufacturer of favouring a different one. The EU has gone completely insane.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,152

    So it's now clear - the EU are trying to kill our Nanas and Gramps.

    Bastards.

    If anyone ever had doubts about voting LEAVE... ;)
  • TimT said:

    Leon said:

    A slight rowing back (tho not total) from Handelsblatt

    https://twitter.com/washingtonski/status/1353841867029438465?s=20

    https://twitter.com/washingtonski/status/1353841883840184320?s=19

    Reported like political tittle tattle, when far more important than that.

    Interesting that the mainstream international media do not appear to have run with this story yet. Will be interesting to see what the picture is tomorrow. But I guess we don't have to wait to know what the Express' line will be. They might be calling HYUFD for input on the invasion plan.
    Probably taking the time to understand what is being said instead of getting into an instant froth like some of the more excitable people on social media. Pretty wild how quickly people start making references to war. Is it a full moon soon?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    RobD said:
    More specifically, how can the EMA possibly be using a different set of data to the MHRA, when only one phase III trial has been concluded and the results thereof published?

    Unless I'm missing something very important and obvious here then this seems a ludicrous assertion.
  • Has the EU now got BDS?
  • FossFoss Posts: 991
    edited January 2021

    Is there not a big unfinished vaccine please somewhere in England?

    Oxfordshire I believe. Supposed to be online by the autumn.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,156
    Paradoxically this disagreement could encourage a higher take-up of the vaccine in the UK, assuming supplies are available.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,456
    Floater said:

    So it's now clear - the EU are trying to kill our Nanas and Gramps.

    Bastards.

    It's a unique but slightly flawed plan to encourage us to rejoin
    Best post of the day!! :)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,350
    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    glw said:

    If the EU actually block an export of vaccine to the UK right now then we might as well tear up the deal with the EU as it would have been proven worthless in less than a month.

    That's possibly understating the seriousness. Banning vaccine exports to the UK would be something close to an act of war and HMG should make that very clear to the EU.
    Not sure I'd go that far, but any excuse to rewatch this...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY
    The stretched twig of peace is at melting point.

    :D
    The whole segment is, for me, the best of the whole Brass Eye output...
    Better than Cake? Shatner's Bassoon? Hmmmm....
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114

    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    glw said:

    If the EU actually block an export of vaccine to the UK right now then we might as well tear up the deal with the EU as it would have been proven worthless in less than a month.

    That's possibly understating the seriousness. Banning vaccine exports to the UK would be something close to an act of war and HMG should make that very clear to the EU.
    Not sure I'd go that far, but any excuse to rewatch this...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY
    The stretched twig of peace is at melting point.

    :D
    The whole segment is, for me, the best of the whole Brass Eye output...
    Better than Cake? Shatner's Bassoon? Hmmmm....
    CAKE is indeed excellent too!
  • Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    glw said:

    If the EU actually block an export of vaccine to the UK right now then we might as well tear up the deal with the EU as it would have been proven worthless in less than a month.

    That's possibly understating the seriousness. Banning vaccine exports to the UK would be something close to an act of war and HMG should make that very clear to the EU.
    Not sure I'd go that far, but any excuse to rewatch this...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY
    The stretched twig of peace is at melting point.

    :D
    The whole segment is, for me, the best of the whole Brass Eye output...
    Better than Cake? Shatner's Bassoon? Hmmmm....
    It's a completely made up drug.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,156
    edited January 2021
    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    RobD said:

    glw said:

    If the EU actually block an export of vaccine to the UK right now then we might as well tear up the deal with the EU as it would have been proven worthless in less than a month.

    That's possibly understating the seriousness. Banning vaccine exports to the UK would be something close to an act of war and HMG should make that very clear to the EU.
    Let us not get ahead of ourselves. Nothing has actually happened yet.

    We are some distance from the point at which we send the Belgian ambassador home with a flea in his ear, let alone attempt to blockade Antwerp with our feeble navy.

    The EU won't be that silly. Common sense will prevail.

    Probably.
    They can block exports at their peril. It isn't just the UK they are exporting to.
    I'm tempted at this juncture to say that they'd probably take great pleasure in confiscating supplies intended for the UK to use themselves, whilst letting the Americans and others have theirs. But in truth that's a preposterous scenario.

    Probably.
    Does anyone know how much of the Pfizer vaccine we already have in the UK, ready to use?
    I believe HMG has been deliberately evasive on that question, not wanting people to know how much or where it is stored for obvious security reasons.
    Yes. Of course the crucial thing is whether we have enough vaccine already here to get up to the crucial 13 million figure that will cover the most vulnerable groups.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Good progress on vaccination here in SW London (Chessington). Wife who is in the shielding group just got a text offering an appointment for Friday

    I wish they'd hurry up here, though in complete fairness to the Government they did say they wouldn't offer an appointment to the whole of the fourth cohort until February 15th (am thinking here specifically of husband, who's shielding.) Just got to sit tight a bit longer I suppose.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114
    Andy_JS said:

    Paradoxically this disagreement could encourage a higher take-up of the vaccine in the UK, assuming supplies are available.

    I'm sure HMG would be happy to take the EU's AZ vaccine off their hands if they don't want it after all....cut price, of course....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,850

    So it's now clear - the EU are trying to kill our Nanas and Gramps.

    Bastards.

    They move fast, some peoples' have been dead for decades!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,850

    Has the EU now got BDS?

    There has been some weird stuff today. At least the German news story, if bullcrap, is just someone in government there trying to mess around for gods knows what reason, but some the actual institutional stories have been strange too.
  • TimT said:

    Leon said:

    A slight rowing back (tho not total) from Handelsblatt

    https://twitter.com/washingtonski/status/1353841867029438465?s=20

    https://twitter.com/washingtonski/status/1353841883840184320?s=19

    Reported like political tittle tattle, when far more important than that.

    Interesting that the mainstream international media do not appear to have run with this story yet. Will be interesting to see what the picture is tomorrow. But I guess we don't have to wait to know what the Express' line will be. They might be calling HYUFD for input on the invasion plan.
    Probably taking the time to understand what is being said instead of getting into an instant froth like some of the more excitable people on social media. Pretty wild how quickly people start making references to war. Is it a full moon soon?
    I think the references to war are in response to the EU threatening to steal our vaccine supply, not the highly irresponsible German journalist's story.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,350
    kle4 said:

    So it's now clear - the EU are trying to kill our Nanas and Gramps.

    Bastards.

    They move fast, some peoples' have been dead for decades!
    It's a plan a long time in the hatching.....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,156
    UK percentage vaccinated just moved from 10% to 11% on the Bloomberg page.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,850
    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    A slight rowing back (tho not total) from Handelsblatt

    https://twitter.com/washingtonski/status/1353841867029438465?s=20

    https://twitter.com/washingtonski/status/1353841883840184320?s=19

    Reported like political tittle tattle, when far more important than that.

    Interesting that the mainstream international media do not appear to have run with this story yet. Will be interesting to see what the picture is tomorrow. But I guess we don't have to wait to know what the Express' line will be. They might be calling HYUFD for input on the invasion plan.
    There's really no reason for them to run it as a big thing until the EMA make a call, otherwise they could end up looking stupid.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    kle4 said:

    Has the EU now got BDS?

    There has been some weird stuff today. At least the German news story, if bullcrap, is just someone in government there trying to mess around for gods knows what reason, but some the actual institutional stories have been strange too.
    I think it's a genuine mistake, and I honestly think someone is getting the mother of all bollockings about it right now. And if the journo is so absolutely sure of what his source said, it'll be the source.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,152
    Andy_JS said:

    UK percentage vaccinated just moved from 10% to 11% on the Bloomberg page.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

    UK doing well there. Go Boris!!!!! :D
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,875
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    glw said:

    If the EU actually block an export of vaccine to the UK right now then we might as well tear up the deal with the EU as it would have been proven worthless in less than a month.

    That's possibly understating the seriousness. Banning vaccine exports to the UK would be something close to an act of war and HMG should make that very clear to the EU.
    Let us not get ahead of ourselves. Nothing has actually happened yet.

    We are some distance from the point at which we send the Belgian ambassador home with a flea in his ear, let alone attempt to blockade Antwerp with our feeble navy.

    The EU won't be that silly. Common sense will prevail.

    Probably.
    They can block exports at their peril. It isn't just the UK they are exporting to.
    I'm tempted at this juncture to say that they'd probably take great pleasure in confiscating supplies intended for the UK to use themselves, whilst letting the Americans and others have theirs. But in truth that's a preposterous scenario.

    Probably.
    Isn't that an actual declaration of war against the UK?
    It would be the most outrageous diplomatic act between western nations in many decades.
    I think we'd win quickly if it was us, Israel and the USA against the EU.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,156
    kle4 said:

    Has the EU now got BDS?

    There has been some weird stuff today. At least the German news story, if bullcrap, is just someone in government there trying to mess around for gods knows what reason, but some the actual institutional stories have been strange too.
    Problem is they may have inadvertently emboldened anti-vaxxers all round the world if it is nonsense.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,350

    So it's not '8% effective' it's 'Over 65s made only 8% of the sample' - that's an error and a bloody half if true.
    Whoever it was, they should not be allowed to play with scissors or other sharp things.

    Or numbers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,850
    edited January 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    kle4 said:

    Has the EU now got BDS?

    There has been some weird stuff today. At least the German news story, if bullcrap, is just someone in government there trying to mess around for gods knows what reason, but some the actual institutional stories have been strange too.
    Problem is they may have inadvertently emboldened anti-vaxxers all round the world if it is nonsense.
    That's why I cannot figure out why they would do this. I don't believe they'd brief journalists who seem very confident of the story that precisely on a misunderstanding of what they were looking at. So either it's right, or it was malicious from whoever provided that info. If the misunderstanding theory is correct I cannot believe they'd be so foolish as that.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    glw said:

    If the EU actually block an export of vaccine to the UK right now then we might as well tear up the deal with the EU as it would have been proven worthless in less than a month.

    That's possibly understating the seriousness. Banning vaccine exports to the UK would be something close to an act of war and HMG should make that very clear to the EU.
    Let us not get ahead of ourselves. Nothing has actually happened yet.

    We are some distance from the point at which we send the Belgian ambassador home with a flea in his ear, let alone attempt to blockade Antwerp with our feeble navy.

    The EU won't be that silly. Common sense will prevail.

    Probably.
    They can block exports at their peril. It isn't just the UK they are exporting to.
    I'm tempted at this juncture to say that they'd probably take great pleasure in confiscating supplies intended for the UK to use themselves, whilst letting the Americans and others have theirs. But in truth that's a preposterous scenario.

    Probably.
    Isn't that an actual declaration of war against the UK?
    It would be the most outrageous diplomatic act between western nations in many decades.
    I think we'd win quickly if it was us, Israel and the USA against the EU.
    The theory is that the EU may just try and block exports to the UK rather than everyone else but surely Pfizer just send more of the Belgian doses to the US and then export US manufactured doses to the UK if they try that.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,313
    edited January 2021
    An opinion piece in the Tagesspiegel saying that the European Commission needs to take responsibility for its failures in vaccine strategy and saying their behaviour in blame shifting is shameless.

    https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/diskussion-um-lieferprobleme-beim-impfstoff-was-sich-die-eu-leistet-das-ist-unverschaemt/26847662.html
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,325
    As it turns out the UK does have domestic active product manufacturing as well as finished vaccine production for Astra Zeneca so maybe we are alright Jack.. or Jacques..or Johan.



  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,156
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    glw said:

    If the EU actually block an export of vaccine to the UK right now then we might as well tear up the deal with the EU as it would have been proven worthless in less than a month.

    That's possibly understating the seriousness. Banning vaccine exports to the UK would be something close to an act of war and HMG should make that very clear to the EU.
    Let us not get ahead of ourselves. Nothing has actually happened yet.

    We are some distance from the point at which we send the Belgian ambassador home with a flea in his ear, let alone attempt to blockade Antwerp with our feeble navy.

    The EU won't be that silly. Common sense will prevail.

    Probably.
    They can block exports at their peril. It isn't just the UK they are exporting to.
    I'm tempted at this juncture to say that they'd probably take great pleasure in confiscating supplies intended for the UK to use themselves, whilst letting the Americans and others have theirs. But in truth that's a preposterous scenario.

    Probably.
    Isn't that an actual declaration of war against the UK?
    It would be the most outrageous diplomatic act between western nations in many decades.
    I think we'd win quickly if it was us, Israel and the USA against the EU.
    The theory is that the EU may just try and block exports to the UK rather than everyone else but surely Pfizer just send more of the Belgian doses to the US and then export US manufactured doses to the UK if they try that.
    Even if the AZ story is true, the fact is most elderly people in the UK have already been given the Pfizer jab, and we probably have enough supplies for the remaining ones. The AZ jab could then be given to younger people. The problem is if European countries were relying on the AZ jab for older people.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Just thought to have a quick look at the Covid case heat map - ever so gradually easing back from red to orange. So long as we're not whacked by a resistant strain, we keep the steady flow of jabs going and avoid a war with Belgium then it still looks like we'll be over the worst of this in another few months.

    Anyway, bedtime. Goodnight.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,152
    Everyone to Dirty Dicks for party in July? :D
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,156

    So it's not '8% effective' it's 'Over 65s made only 8% of the sample' - that's an error and a bloody half if true.
    Whoever it was, they should not be allowed to play with scissors or other sharp things.

    Or numbers.
    Should the German government join the Italian and Dutch ones in resigning if it is an error of that type?
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,325
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kle4 said:

    Has the EU now got BDS?

    There has been some weird stuff today. At least the German news story, if bullcrap, is just someone in government there trying to mess around for gods knows what reason, but some the actual institutional stories have been strange too.
    Problem is they may have inadvertently emboldened anti-vaxxers all round the world if it is nonsense.
    That's why I cannot figure out why they would do this. I don't believe they'd brief journalists who seem very confident of the story that precisely on a misunderstanding of what they were looking at. So either it's right, or it was malicious from whoever provided that info. If the misunderstanding theory is correct I cannot believe they'd be so foolish as that.
    Again, it depends on whether the sources (claimed to be multiple) are leaking this on behalf of the German government or on behalf of something else.

    If its leaked misinformation that's very different from a story that's badly understood.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Another story illustrating the unique position of Taiwan in chip manufacturing.

    Now in driver's seat, Taiwan chipmakers weigh new price hikes for autos
    https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Electronics/Now-in-driver-s-seat-Taiwan-chipmakers-weigh-new-price-hikes-for-autos
    TAIPEI -- Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., the world's largest contract chipmaker, and Taiwanese peers are considering another round of price increases mainly on automotive chips, Nikkei learned Monday, as a global semiconductor shortage puts pricing power firmly on their side.

    The hikes of up to 15% are being considered by Vanguard International Semiconductor, a TSMC subsidiary that makes auto chips, along with other Taiwanese players including No. 4 foundry United Microelectronics Corp.

    If the Taiwanese suppliers do successfully negotiate higher prices, that would mark the rare case of two substantial hikes within just a few months, after a round of increases that began last fall. Their aggressiveness shows how they now occupy the driver's seat in price negotiations with automakers.

    When contacted by Nikkei, UMC Chief Financial Officer Liu Chi-tung said he "can't answer questions about prices." But he added that "it's true that we chipmakers are in a relatively advantageous position based on the supply-demand balance."

    Any new increases are expected to be phased in from the second half of February into March.

    The Taiwanese foundries appear to have reached out to customers that specialize in automotive chips, including the Netherlands' NXP Semiconductors and Renesas Electronics of Japan. Renesas, NXP and peers have already asked automakers to accept higher prices, and further increases would likely dent auto companies' profit margins.

    In the last round of hikes, chip foundries reportedly raised prices by 10% to 15% in response to a wave of additional orders, some urgent, to meet demand from automakers ramping up production...

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,152
    @HYUFD will be ready to send tanks down the tunnel in the morning if the EU don't get off their high horse...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    US changes guidance to allow delayed booster shots.

    https://twitter.com/MonicaGandhi9/status/1353768182809411585
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    GIN1138 said:

    Everyone to Dirty Dicks for party in July? :D

    Oh god that would be nice....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817
    .
    GIN1138 said:

    @HYUFD will be ready to send tanks down the tunnel in the morning if the EU don't get off their high horse...

    In a pincer movement, with a marines invasion of Antwerp to secure the Pfizer factory. They won't see it coming. ;)
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,456
    RobD said:

    .

    GIN1138 said:

    @HYUFD will be ready to send tanks down the tunnel in the morning if the EU don't get off their high horse...

    In a pincer movement, with a marines invasion of Antwerp to secure the Pfizer factory. They won't see it coming. ;)
    For a moment I misread that as the Panzer factory ...
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Rioters set fire to police station in Holland - another mad night over there
  • This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,903

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    With all due respect, have they actually done that?

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,152

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    Have you and Mrs G had your vaccines yet Big G?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Well, if we do end up recognising the EU ambassador to the UK, they may not be here for very long.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817
    rcs1000 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    With all due respect, have they actually done that?

    They've announced a scheme where they have to notify of all vaccine exports for approval. Why would they need such a scheme if they weren't going to refuse at some point?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,903

    RobD said:
    More specifically, how can the EMA possibly be using a different set of data to the MHRA, when only one phase III trial has been concluded and the results thereof published?

    Unless I'm missing something very important and obvious here then this seems a ludicrous assertion.
    I don't think that's true: technically there have been four separate Phase 3 trials, which were bundled into a meta-analysis. (And because protocols were not consistent, there has been a lot of grumbling about the meaning of the results.)
  • GIN1138 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    Have you and Mrs G had your vaccines yet Big G?
    Yes thank you GIN

    Pfizer last Saturday and we are very grateful to everyone involved
  • rcs1000 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    With all due respect, have they actually done that?

    The export licencing of our vaccine has been threatened to all third party countries
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    rcs1000 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    With all due respect, have they actually done that?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/25/brussels-threatens-block-exports-pfizer-covid-vaccine/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,903

    kle4 said:

    Has the EU now got BDS?

    There has been some weird stuff today. At least the German news story, if bullcrap, is just someone in government there trying to mess around for gods knows what reason, but some the actual institutional stories have been strange too.
    I think it's a genuine mistake, and I honestly think someone is getting the mother of all bollockings about it right now. And if the journo is so absolutely sure of what his source said, it'll be the source.
    I suspect @Andy_Cooke got it right earlier: given it's a sample size of just 10, the paper probably said "70% effective (95% confidence interval 8-97%)". And then some lazy innumerate journalist desperate for a story ran with:

    "Trials indicate AZN's effectiveness with older recipients could be as low as 8%"
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,152

    GIN1138 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    Have you and Mrs G had your vaccines yet Big G?
    Yes thank you GIN

    Pfizer last Saturday and we are very grateful to everyone involved
    Ooooooooo excellent. Pleased to hear it! :D
  • It is long past my bedtime folks so have a good nights rest everyone

    Good night
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    With all due respect, have they actually done that?

    They've announced a scheme where they have to notify of all vaccine exports for approval. Why would they need such a scheme if they weren't going to refuse at some point?
    I would imagine that they hope that having such a scheme will in itself ensure that manufacturers prioritise EU supply.

    The UK has an opportunity here, by being courteous, statesmanlike and generous where possible, to have a big diplomatic coup.

    Meanwhile it is absolutely imperative that we have domestic supply sorted.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Has the EU now got BDS?

    There has been some weird stuff today. At least the German news story, if bullcrap, is just someone in government there trying to mess around for gods knows what reason, but some the actual institutional stories have been strange too.
    I think it's a genuine mistake, and I honestly think someone is getting the mother of all bollockings about it right now. And if the journo is so absolutely sure of what his source said, it'll be the source.
    I suspect @Andy_Cooke got it right earlier: given it's a sample size of just 10, the paper probably said "70% effective (95% confidence interval 8-97%)". And then some lazy innumerate journalist desperate for a story ran with:

    "Trials indicate AZN's effectiveness with older recipients could be as low as 8%"
    It's a workable theory, but I think the presence of both '8%' and 'over 65s' in the other bit, makes that theory the frontrunner.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817

    GIN1138 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    Have you and Mrs G had your vaccines yet Big G?
    Yes thank you GIN

    Pfizer last Saturday and we are very grateful to everyone involved
    The Grand Cru, you lucky git. ;)
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    With all due respect, have they actually done that?

    They've announced a scheme where they have to notify of all vaccine exports for approval. Why would they need such a scheme if they weren't going to refuse at some point?
    I would imagine that they hope that having such a scheme will in itself ensure that manufacturers prioritise EU supply.

    The UK has an opportunity here, by being courteous, statesmanlike and generous where possible, to have a big diplomatic coup.

    Meanwhile it is absolutely imperative that we have domestic supply sorted.
    Courteous? Generous? We’ve paid twice as much for it. It’s ours. We outbid them on Jab-bay. Simples. It’s ours. Europe can produce it for us, as quick as you can, thank you, and hand the vaccine over.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    gealbhan said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    With all due respect, have they actually done that?

    They've announced a scheme where they have to notify of all vaccine exports for approval. Why would they need such a scheme if they weren't going to refuse at some point?
    I would imagine that they hope that having such a scheme will in itself ensure that manufacturers prioritise EU supply.

    The UK has an opportunity here, by being courteous, statesmanlike and generous where possible, to have a big diplomatic coup.

    Meanwhile it is absolutely imperative that we have domestic supply sorted.
    Courteous? Generous? We’ve paid twice as much for it. It’s ours. We outbid them on Jab-bay. Simples. It’s ours. Europe can produce it for us, as quick as you can, thank you, and hand the vaccine over.
    At some point I would hope our supply exceeds the rate at which we can jab. At that point, I would like to help ROI, which apart from anything else also helps us as there's a total open border.
  • GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    Have you and Mrs G had your vaccines yet Big G?
    Yes thank you GIN

    Pfizer last Saturday and we are very grateful to everyone involved
    Ooooooooo excellent. Pleased to hear it! :D
    Big G is now under the control of Bill Gates....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    Have you and Mrs G had your vaccines yet Big G?
    Yes thank you GIN

    Pfizer last Saturday and we are very grateful to everyone involved
    Ooooooooo excellent. Pleased to hear it! :D
    Big G is now under the control of Bill Gates....
    He's already gone and got a Zune.
  • RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    Have you and Mrs G had your vaccines yet Big G?
    Yes thank you GIN

    Pfizer last Saturday and we are very grateful to everyone involved
    The Grand Cru, you lucky git. ;)
    The German one! BioNTech is German. Funny how we get exercised when ScotGov leaves off Oxford from AstraZeneca but routinely say Pfizer rather than Pfizer-BioNTech.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,313

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    Have you and Mrs G had your vaccines yet Big G?
    Yes thank you GIN

    Pfizer last Saturday and we are very grateful to everyone involved
    Ooooooooo excellent. Pleased to hear it! :D
    Big G is now under the control of Bill Gates....
    These people have just had their injection:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAkuJXGldrM
  • Daily Mail reporting 8%....

    Brexit war over vaccines: Brussels threat to UK vaccine supplies after it demands Pfizer informs them of non-EU exports as regulator ‘plans to reject use of Oxford jab for over-65s’ after German claim it is only 8% effective in pensioners

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9184203/AstraZeneca-say-meet-EUs-Covid-19-vaccine-demands-blocs-supply-chain-problems.html
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    Have you and Mrs G had your vaccines yet Big G?
    Yes thank you GIN

    Pfizer last Saturday and we are very grateful to everyone involved
    Ooooooooo excellent. Pleased to hear it! :D
    Big G is now under the control of Bill Gates....
    Or Bigger G, as some of us don't call him.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817

    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    Have you and Mrs G had your vaccines yet Big G?
    Yes thank you GIN

    Pfizer last Saturday and we are very grateful to everyone involved
    The Grand Cru, you lucky git. ;)
    The German one! BioNTech is German. Funny how we get exercised when ScotGov leaves off Oxford from AstraZeneca but routinely say Pfizer rather than Pfizer-BioNTech.
    Happy to take vaccines from anywhere. Wasn't the inventor a Turkish immigrant to Germany?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    What else are on the agenda tonight?

    (Since everyone ignored it on the last thread's discussion of data! :) )

    Why are labour not doing better

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1353809414571089920?s=19
    Today's Delta poll showed movement in the opposite direction.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,903
    Floater said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    With all due respect, have they actually done that?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/25/brussels-threatens-block-exports-pfizer-covid-vaccine/
    I am willing to bet that the EU will not actually limit any Pfizer exports. I think they are willy waving to encourage Pfizer to make sure they improve their supply to the EU.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Floater said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    With all due respect, have they actually done that?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/25/brussels-threatens-block-exports-pfizer-covid-vaccine/
    I am willing to bet that the EU will not actually limit any Pfizer exports. I think they are willy waving to encourage Pfizer to make sure they improve their supply to the EU.
    How can they improve the EU supply without limiting it somewhere else?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817

    rcs1000 said:

    Floater said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    With all due respect, have they actually done that?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/25/brussels-threatens-block-exports-pfizer-covid-vaccine/
    I am willing to bet that the EU will not actually limit any Pfizer exports. I think they are willy waving to encourage Pfizer to make sure they improve their supply to the EU.
    How can they improve the EU supply without limiting it somewhere else?
    The EU's true colours revealed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,903
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    With all due respect, have they actually done that?

    They've announced a scheme where they have to notify of all vaccine exports for approval. Why would they need such a scheme if they weren't going to refuse at some point?
    Isn't it just a (not very) subtle reminder to the companies that they have orders to fulfil to the EU? I would be very surprised if it was actually used.
  • rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This has been a day of shame for the EU and will convince many we are right to have left

    If this does hit the headlines in the morning with threats by the EU to impound our supplies, I fear that the consequences will be an international PR disaster for Europe

    With all due respect, have they actually done that?

    They've announced a scheme where they have to notify of all vaccine exports for approval. Why would they need such a scheme if they weren't going to refuse at some point?
    Isn't it just a (not very) subtle reminder to the companies that they have orders to fulfil to the EU? I would be very surprised if it was actually used.
    But that's at least implicitly threatening our supply. Which is at least outrageous "diplomacy". If we'd done something remotely similar to the EU the remainiacs would doubtless be shrieking wildly at our government
  • The EU has warned it will tighten rules on exports of Covid vaccines, amid a row with AstraZeneca over a cut in planned supplies to the 27-member bloc.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55805903
  • Oh god.....

    Chris Grayling leads MPs' charge to save hedgehogshttps://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55804978
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817

    The EU has warned it will tighten rules on exports of Covid vaccines, amid a row with AstraZeneca over a cut in planned supplies to the 27-member bloc.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55805903

    Didn't the Trade Federation try this with Naboo?
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Daily Mail reporting 8%....

    Brexit war over vaccines: Brussels threat to UK vaccine supplies after it demands Pfizer informs them of non-EU exports as regulator ‘plans to reject use of Oxford jab for over-65s’ after German claim it is only 8% effective in pensioners

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9184203/AstraZeneca-say-meet-EUs-Covid-19-vaccine-demands-blocs-supply-chain-problems.html

    I’m disappointed the Mail have ran with this (though perhaps not surprised), but at least they have been partially dismissive of the German claims. This story is now blowing up and I think we are truly in the midst of the vaccine wars.

    When the initial German media reports came through tonight I felt quite ill. A similar feeling to when I was pacing up and down at my 2019 work Xmas do waiting for the yougov MRP to be released. There is a lot at stake here, reputations, optimism and of course lives.

    I feel more comfortable about things a few hours later, since Astra Zeneca, Oxford University, various reputable journalists and medical experts have partially debunked the initial story and that no data supporting the 8% claim has been put forward.

    If found to be false then heads should roll in the German media but I doubt they will. There is an ongoing view among some Europhile politicians that a clandestine collaboration between the UK and Astra Zeneca can be used to mask any deficiencies in the EU vaccine rollout and to explain faltering supply issues. Britain represents an obvious scapegoat in the current Brexit climate and thus I hope Zahawi goes in hard on the German media and the political sources of these probable smears.

    A misinformation campaign of this ilk is incredibly dangerous in the current climate and we should now challenge these probable falsehoods so they don’t happen again.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817
    Apologist.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,439
    edited January 2021

    The New European's unbiased view..
    twitter.com/ThatTimWalker/status/1353827394994450434?s=20

    I wonder what his take would be if the UK did that? I guarantee he was a "Internal Market Bill" = paramount to an act of war
  • RobD said:
    Looking at his twitter feed, it makes Scott N Paste look unbiased when it comes to anything Boris / Brexit.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Again and again, the pro-EU lobby rushes to level charges against the UK that would make at least as much sense if they also levelled them in the opposite direction.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703

    Leon said:

    What else are on the agenda tonight?

    (Since everyone ignored it on the last thread's discussion of data! :) )

    Why are labour not doing better

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1353809414571089920?s=19
    Because
    a) Conservatives who know that Boris Johnson's government is corrupt, inept, vindictive, stupid, and immoral lack the backbone to stand up to him. That is, people like you. And,
    b) Because Labour are not an attractive enough alternative.
    So, what should Labour do to be "more attractive"?

    They tried a mad Marxist jew-baiter, your hero Corbyn, that didn't work, now they've tried a tedious centrist dad lawyer, also not working. What next?
    Lose
    Lose
    Lose
    Lose
    BLAIR
    BLAIR
    BLAIR
    Lose
    Lose
    Lose
    Lose

    :smiley:
    It's not kind to mock the afflicted.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703

    I don't want to live on this world if people are talking about Piers Moron for Prime Minister.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1353829237933957120/photo/1

    It wasn't long ago on here that I proposed "Piers Morgan elected" as the three scariest words possible
    In that photo Morgan is just a head, so you can put him on a lollipop stick to be like Cromwell.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    I can remember when people said that a benefit of Brexit is that we wouldn't be able to blame the EU for our problems.
This discussion has been closed.