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George Osborne argues that the way Trump’s been constrained shows that democracy is working – politi

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  • Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    This is rather a fascinating video. This lad seems to know a bit about linguistics and tries to talk with a London accent, starting in 1346 and proceeding to modern day in 60 year (i.e. roughly two generation) jumps.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lXv3Tt4x20
  • Germany and Netherlands likely to extend Covid lockdowns

    Angela Merkel says infections may rise 10-fold by Easter if virus’s spread is not halted

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/12/germany-and-netherlands-likely-to-extend-covid-lockdowns

  • Most working age people who receive benefits are in work. Many more are disabled. To slander them as workshy layabouts is disgusting.

    Which is why Osborne cut benefits for the well-off, including child benefit for people earning £100K+. Labour opposed that. It is also why he increased benefits for the disabled. It is also why he addressed the disgraceful anomaly that lower-paid workers, without adequate housing for their families, were subsidising older people with spare rooms they no longer needed.

    The whole welfare system inherited from Brown was a complete mess - wasteful, poorly-targeted, very expensive, and very unfair. It sounds as though you wanted to keep it that way.
    I don't think it's fair to say that he increased benefits for the disabled. This is an area I have personal knowledge of. PIP criteria were made much stricter than DLA and many were moved onto lower levels and had motability removed or were disqualified altogether (although the level of support for care, for those who qualified, was slightly increased); the employment support allowance criteria were drawn more narrowly (though benefits are marginally higher than JSA); Access to Work had budget caps introduced.

    There were also reduction in levels of support for purchasing wheelchairs and so on, but I don't know whether that was a central government change or a local one. My last wheelchair cost about 14 times what I was given by my occ health service, though to be fair I did get a very nice one.

    --AS
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Germany and Netherlands likely to extend Covid lockdowns

    Angela Merkel says infections may rise 10-fold by Easter if virus’s spread is not halted

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/12/germany-and-netherlands-likely-to-extend-covid-lockdowns

    She's not wrong.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited January 2021


    Most working age people who receive benefits are in work. Many more are disabled. To slander them as workshy layabouts is disgusting.

    Which is why Osborne cut benefits for the well-off, including child benefit for people earning £100K+. Labour opposed that. It is also why he increased benefits for the disabled. It is also why he addressed the disgraceful anomaly that lower-paid workers, without adequate housing for their families, were subsidising older people with spare rooms they no longer needed.

    The whole welfare system inherited from Brown was a complete mess - wasteful, poorly-targeted, very expensive, and very unfair. It sounds as though you wanted to keep it that way.
    I don't think it's fair to say that he increased benefits for the disabled. This is an area I have personal knowledge of. PIP criteria were made much stricter than DLA and many were moved onto lower levels and had motability removed or were disqualified altogether (although the level of support for care, for those who qualified, was slightly increased); the employment support allowance criteria were drawn more narrowly (though benefits are marginally higher than JSA); Access to Work had budget caps introduced.

    There were also reduction in levels of support for purchasing wheelchairs and so on, but I don't know whether that was a central government change or a local one. My last wheelchair cost about 14 times what I was given by my occ health service, though to be fair I did get a very nice one.

    --AS
    It's the opposite of the truth, as at least Johnson's administration seems to have partly come to recognise.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    They should go ahead as 100% postal.
    Would that not give the conservatives quite an advantage though
    That is a good question. Perhaps it would drive up turnout overall and benefit Labour?
    The postal service around where I am appears to have collapsed. If it's even close to that in May then I'm not sure even a partial postal vote election is viable, let alone a full one.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    My Great Grandmother died when I was 4. I do just about remember her. She always said that her grandfather had been a boot boy for the Duke of Wellington. No idea if it was true but the maths worked.
    Wellington boot boy ?
    I think she was pulling your...
    Oh I am sure she was. What always interested me afterwards was that the maths worked. Her Grandfather was born in 1834.

    It just amazes me how close we are, by degrees of separation, to historical figures.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    People are getting a little testy about the Corbyn comparison, not unreasonably to some extent - Trump does operate on a level not generally seen over here. And yet, and yet ... if you gave Corbyn the kind of political power and media reach Trump had, is it really that hard to imagine him imposing his loony left agenda on the country with an army of hundreds of thousands of, er, 'passionate' Momentumites cheering his every word at boisterous rallies? He's easy to laugh at now that Boris has annihilated him, but his defeat in the UK was just as essential as Trump's in the US.

    The moral courage shown by Shadow Cabinet members like Starmer who supported him uncritically for years is unimpressive, to say the least.

    I can tell when you wish to sound serious but don't believe what you're writing. It's just that bit too studied.
    Well, one thing I'm genuinely grateful for is that we'll never find out what a Corbyn-McDonnell-Abbott et al. Cabinet with real political power would have done. I think it would have been almost as polarizing for us as its US mirror image: furious passion and misguided devotion on one side, fear and contempt on the other.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    isam said:

    geoffw said:

    Why the hell couldn't they use vouchers? It's a Tory government fgs.

    Because bellend Tory MPs like Ben Bradley kept on banging on that the vouchers would be used to buy drugs and hookers.

    So it would be better to send the food direct.
    Drug dealers and Brasses take vouchers now?!
    Prolly yes, at say a 50% discount to face value. Esp if they have children to feed.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9138999/Angela-Merkel-warns-Germanys-Covid-cases-rise-TENFOLD-dont-stop-BRITISH-virus.html

    Angela Merkel has warned Germany will see ten times as many Covid cases by Easter if they 'don't manage to stop this British virus'.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,998
    edited January 2021

    Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    A US painter of whom I was a fan, Larry Rivers, made several works based on the theme of the last Civil War veteran. It turned out that the subject of the painting below was too young to have served, so a metaphor for something or other!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Rivers



  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,127
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9138999/Angela-Merkel-warns-Germanys-Covid-cases-rise-TENFOLD-dont-stop-BRITISH-virus.html

    Angela Merkel has warned Germany will see ten times as many Covid cases by Easter if they 'don't manage to stop this British virus'.

    She's going Trump in her descriptions?
  • Who the hell is doing the marketing for nvidia...people talking about lockdown rules are too confusing, you should see their full SKU lineup....with genius of launching a 3060 Ti, then a month later announce a 3060 that is better.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    OT - Wings has just published the unredacted version of Alex Salmond’s submission to the Holyrood committee investigating the Scottish Government’s handling of complaints against him and the subsequent trial.

    The accusations being levelled have moved up to DEFCON 3.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-duty-of-candour/
  • tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9138999/Angela-Merkel-warns-Germanys-Covid-cases-rise-TENFOLD-dont-stop-BRITISH-virus.html

    Angela Merkel has warned Germany will see ten times as many Covid cases by Easter if they 'don't manage to stop this British virus'.

    Someone needs a better translator.

    Merkel said

    'In einer internen Sitzung der Unionsfraktion warnte sie vor dramatisch explodierenden Infektionszahlen durch das in Großbritannien mutierte Corona-Virus und ein vielfaches an Infektionszahlen in wenigen Wochen.'

    Which translates as 'This variant that mutated in Great Britain.'
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    Who the hell is doing the marketing for nvidia...people talking about lockdown rules are too confusing, you should see their full SKU lineup....with genius of launching a 3060 Ti, then a month later announce a 3060 that is better.

    I intentionally bought an EVGA 3080 so I can upgrade to the 3080TI using their stepup scheme when that card is announced next month.

    Meanwhile the total amount of 3080 cards due to arrive in the UK this month appears to be less than 2000 in total. (and 1 company by itself still has 5000 backorders from September to fulfil)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,836
    edited January 2021
    isam said:

    geoffw said:

    Why the hell couldn't they use vouchers? It's a Tory government fgs.

    Because bellend Tory MPs like Ben Bradley kept on banging on that the vouchers would be used to buy drugs and hookers.

    So it would be better to send the food direct.
    Drug dealers and Brasses take vouchers now?!
    According to Ben Bradley that is what they were "effectively" being spent on. So companies whose owners happen to be mates of Tory bigwigs get given £30 and pass a fraction on to the kids instead.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    DavidL said:

    1,232 deaths?

    Did hear that I right.

    Just concentrate on the vaccine numbers. They are much more cheerful.
    Did they announce a figure today?
    Total vaccinated today is 2,431k, up 145k on yesterday. Which is considerably less than the 200k per day Hancock claimed at the weekend. So at that rate, assuming they are working 7 days, it will be 1,015k per week and we would get to about 6m by mid-Feb. But presumably the rate will increase....

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare#card-people_who_have_received_vaccinations_by_report_date_daily
    Anecdotally there are clearly some practices using their vaccine and staff to do the originally promised second doses to some of the elderly. Which may reduce the number of new vaccinations being done

  • Most working age people who receive benefits are in work. Many more are disabled. To slander them as workshy layabouts is disgusting.

    Which is why Osborne cut benefits for the well-off, including child benefit for people earning £100K+. Labour opposed that. It is also why he increased benefits for the disabled. It is also why he addressed the disgraceful anomaly that lower-paid workers, without adequate housing for their families, were subsidising older people with spare rooms they no longer needed.

    The whole welfare system inherited from Brown was a complete mess - wasteful, poorly-targeted, very expensive, and very unfair. It sounds as though you wanted to keep it that way.
    Cameron did nothing to remedy the unfairness of ATOS's role, for instance, though. In fact both May and Cameron increased unnecessary sanctions and unnecessary suffering, in the area of welfare, leading in turn to many other effects, like higher homelessness, and larger numbers of children in absolute poverty. The record on welfare is probably the single most obvious black mark against the administrations of the last 10 years.

    One of the only things I could say for Johnson and Cummings is that they have seemed to show some awareness of this.
    That's the ATOS organization implementing rules introduced by Labour in 2008 - that one?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,100
    edited January 2021
    eek said:

    Who the hell is doing the marketing for nvidia...people talking about lockdown rules are too confusing, you should see their full SKU lineup....with genius of launching a 3060 Ti, then a month later announce a 3060 that is better.

    I intentionally bought an EVGA 3080 so I can upgrade to the 3080TI using their stepup scheme when that card is announced next month.

    Meanwhile the total amount of 3080 cards due to arrive in the UK this month appears to be less than 2000 in total. (and 1 company by itself still has 5000 backorders from September to fulfil)
    I am waiting on the 3080Ti, as I need the 20Gb of VRAM...going to be a bun fight.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,127

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9138999/Angela-Merkel-warns-Germanys-Covid-cases-rise-TENFOLD-dont-stop-BRITISH-virus.html

    Angela Merkel has warned Germany will see ten times as many Covid cases by Easter if they 'don't manage to stop this British virus'.

    Someone needs a better translator.

    Merkel said

    'In einer internen Sitzung der Unionsfraktion warnte sie vor dramatisch explodierenden Infektionszahlen durch das in Großbritannien mutierte Corona-Virus und ein vielfaches an Infektionszahlen in wenigen Wochen.'

    Which translates as 'This variant that mutated in Great Britain.'
    That does sound more like her.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Foss said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    They should go ahead as 100% postal.
    Would that not give the conservatives quite an advantage though
    That is a good question. Perhaps it would drive up turnout overall and benefit Labour?
    The postal service around where I am appears to have collapsed. If it's even close to that in May then I'm not sure even a partial postal vote election is viable, let alone a full one.
    They are suffering from significant levels of staff sickness and isolation absences, meaning many deliveries are left uncovered.

    Anyone who has seen a sorting office when they start to get behind will know that they very quickly fill up with mail and it becomes increasingly difficult to recover normal operations.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited January 2021
    Schumer calling out McConnell on his attempt to sidestep the Senate being recalled early (before 19 Jan)

    Except his speech is interrupted by a Trump heckler. Bad idea to speak live from the pavement in a street.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9138999/Angela-Merkel-warns-Germanys-Covid-cases-rise-TENFOLD-dont-stop-BRITISH-virus.html

    Angela Merkel has warned Germany will see ten times as many Covid cases by Easter if they 'don't manage to stop this British virus'.

    Someone needs a better translator.

    Merkel said

    'In einer internen Sitzung der Unionsfraktion warnte sie vor dramatisch explodierenden Infektionszahlen durch das in Großbritannien mutierte Corona-Virus und ein vielfaches an Infektionszahlen in wenigen Wochen.'

    Which translates as 'This variant that mutated in Great Britain.'
    Ha! I did wonder. Mind you, still wrong of her to make that assertion. She could have made reference to it being identified first in GB.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,603
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    1,232 deaths?

    Did hear that I right.

    Just concentrate on the vaccine numbers. They are much more cheerful.
    Did they announce a figure today?
    Total vaccinated today is 2,431k, up 145k on yesterday. Which is considerably less than the 200k per day Hancock claimed at the weekend. So at that rate, assuming they are working 7 days, it will be 1,015k per week and we would get to about 6m by mid-Feb. But presumably the rate will increase....

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare#card-people_who_have_received_vaccinations_by_report_date_daily
    Anecdotally there are clearly some practices using their vaccine and staff to do the originally promised second doses to some of the elderly. Which may reduce the number of new vaccinations being done
    My neighbours have had both their Pfizer jabs.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    eek said:

    Who the hell is doing the marketing for nvidia...people talking about lockdown rules are too confusing, you should see their full SKU lineup....with genius of launching a 3060 Ti, then a month later announce a 3060 that is better.

    I intentionally bought an EVGA 3080 so I can upgrade to the 3080TI using their stepup scheme when that card is announced next month.

    Meanwhile the total amount of 3080 cards due to arrive in the UK this month appears to be less than 2000 in total. (and 1 company by itself still has 5000 backorders from September to fulfil)
    GeForce Now. GeForce Now. GeForce Now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
  • isam said:

    geoffw said:

    Why the hell couldn't they use vouchers? It's a Tory government fgs.

    Because bellend Tory MPs like Ben Bradley kept on banging on that the vouchers would be used to buy drugs and hookers.

    So it would be better to send the food direct.
    Drug dealers and Brasses take vouchers now?!
    According to Ben Bradley that is what they were "effectively" being spent on. So companies whose owners happen to be mates of Tory bigwigs get given £30 and pass a fraction on to the kids instead.
    I'm not totally opposed to the argument that actual food should be provided rather than cash or vouchers when schools aren't open.

    The point of having free meals for kids from poorer families when schools were open was to ensure young people were getting a nutritious meal - cash or a voucher could have been provided instead at that time but there has long been a concern that wouldn't translate into a decent meal for the kid in a (fairly small) proportion of cases. Ben Bradley puts it horrifically, but there is the kernel of truth somewhere there.

    But the trouble is that this was a pretty predictable problem when procuring in a hurry. You can't manage or even see it in the same way as a caterer running the school canteen. It's not a massive surprise at least some suppliers are dreadful con-men (whether or not they are also mates of Tory ministers). So they should've kept it simple.
  • BBC News - Covid-19: London's Nightingale hospital taking patients
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55619580
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,603

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    My Great Grandmother died when I was 4. I do just about remember her. She always said that her grandfather had been a boot boy for the Duke of Wellington. No idea if it was true but the maths worked.
    Wellington boot boy ?
    I think she was pulling your...
    Oh I am sure she was. What always interested me afterwards was that the maths worked. Her Grandfather was born in 1834.

    It just amazes me how close we are, by degrees of separation, to historical figures.
    Wifey used to see an old lady when she was a child, whose father made the shoes for Queen Victoria at her wedding.....
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited January 2021


    Most working age people who receive benefits are in work. Many more are disabled. To slander them as workshy layabouts is disgusting.

    Which is why Osborne cut benefits for the well-off, including child benefit for people earning £100K+. Labour opposed that. It is also why he increased benefits for the disabled. It is also why he addressed the disgraceful anomaly that lower-paid workers, without adequate housing for their families, were subsidising older people with spare rooms they no longer needed.

    The whole welfare system inherited from Brown was a complete mess - wasteful, poorly-targeted, very expensive, and very unfair. It sounds as though you wanted to keep it that way.
    Cameron did nothing to remedy the unfairness of ATOS's role, for instance, though. In fact both May and Cameron increased unnecessary sanctions and unnecessary suffering, in the area of welfare, leading in turn to many other effects, like higher homelessness, and larger numbers of children in absolute poverty. The record on welfare is probably the single most obvious black mark against the administrations of the last 10 years.

    One of the only things I could say for Johnson and Cummings is that they have seemed to show some awareness of this.
    That's the ATOS organization implementing rules introduced by Labour in 2008 - that one?
    Exacrly the one, which Labour introduced under Reaganite inspiration from the US via some of Clinton's old team, and Cameron and May's administrations made even more cruel.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    edited January 2021
    A sensible response to Osborne's daft parallel:

    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/01/uk-centrism-labour-jeremy-corbyn-capitol-riot-left-wing-extremism?fbclid=IwAR3etqxmibnhTI_iqlKbCDHMUHcncb72Z-WbHXGe-0jqeBgjXzT0HRCOU6c

    Though Osborne's comments are not quite as daft as the claim by Ian Austin that the left wouldn't accept an election defeat, as though 2017 and 2019 hadn't happened. It's a variant of whataboutism - "X is bad, so Y (who I dislike for other reasons) is bad in the same way". You see it on the left too when Thatcher gets dragged into every conversation.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9138999/Angela-Merkel-warns-Germanys-Covid-cases-rise-TENFOLD-dont-stop-BRITISH-virus.html

    Angela Merkel has warned Germany will see ten times as many Covid cases by Easter if they 'don't manage to stop this British virus'.

    Someone needs a better translator.

    Merkel said

    'In einer internen Sitzung der Unionsfraktion warnte sie vor dramatisch explodierenden Infektionszahlen durch das in Großbritannien mutierte Corona-Virus und ein vielfaches an Infektionszahlen in wenigen Wochen.'

    Which translates as 'This variant that mutated in Great Britain.'
    Least of her problems anyway, they've got the South African flavour

    https://www.sueddeutsche.de/gesundheit/gesundheit-stuttgart-suedafrika-variante-des-coronavirus-in-deutschland-entdeckt-dpa.urn-newsml-dpa-com-20090101-210112-99-997922
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,127

    It's a variant of whataboutism - "X is bad, so Y (that I dislike for other reasons) is bad in the same way". You see it on the left too when Thatcher gets dragged into every conversation.

    Happens with Boris a lot as well. Corbyn was, in my view, very unsuitable to be PM, but such parallels that can be made with him and Trump do not extend anywhere near that far, it's just unreasonable.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,706
    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    IshmaelZ said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9138999/Angela-Merkel-warns-Germanys-Covid-cases-rise-TENFOLD-dont-stop-BRITISH-virus.html

    Angela Merkel has warned Germany will see ten times as many Covid cases by Easter if they 'don't manage to stop this British virus'.

    Someone needs a better translator.

    Merkel said

    'In einer internen Sitzung der Unionsfraktion warnte sie vor dramatisch explodierenden Infektionszahlen durch das in Großbritannien mutierte Corona-Virus und ein vielfaches an Infektionszahlen in wenigen Wochen.'

    Which translates as 'This variant that mutated in Great Britain.'
    Least of her problems anyway, they've got the South African flavour

    https://www.sueddeutsche.de/gesundheit/gesundheit-stuttgart-suedafrika-variante-des-coronavirus-in-deutschland-entdeckt-dpa.urn-newsml-dpa-com-20090101-210112-99-997922
    I think it's everywhere. Which is why we need a much stronger lockdown.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    1,232 deaths?

    Did hear that I right.

    Just concentrate on the vaccine numbers. They are much more cheerful.
    Did they announce a figure today?
    Total vaccinated today is 2,431k, up 145k on yesterday. Which is considerably less than the 200k per day Hancock claimed at the weekend. So at that rate, assuming they are working 7 days, it will be 1,015k per week and we would get to about 6m by mid-Feb. But presumably the rate will increase....

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare#card-people_who_have_received_vaccinations_by_report_date_daily
    Anecdotally there are clearly some practices using their vaccine and staff to do the originally promised second doses to some of the elderly. Which may reduce the number of new vaccinations being done
    The stats are total of both first and second doses I guess, so the number of people vaccinated will be less than the total number of vaccinations delivered.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315
    I rather think this is the key paragraph in that article -

    "There will always be cults, fanatics and demagogues; political parties are always vulnerable to capture. That’s why we need constitutions, written or unwritten. That’s why we should value established institutions and the rule of law. That’s why we must do everything to preserve our independent judiciaries and impartial civil services. In the taming of Trump, America has taught us all an invaluable lesson."


    And that it is addressed at some of his former colleagues in Parliament here.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    IanB2 said:

    Foss said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    They should go ahead as 100% postal.
    Would that not give the conservatives quite an advantage though
    That is a good question. Perhaps it would drive up turnout overall and benefit Labour?
    The postal service around where I am appears to have collapsed. If it's even close to that in May then I'm not sure even a partial postal vote election is viable, let alone a full one.
    They are suffering from significant levels of staff sickness and isolation absences, meaning many deliveries are left uncovered.

    Anyone who has seen a sorting office when they start to get behind will know that they very quickly fill up with mail and it becomes increasingly difficult to recover normal operations.
    Didn't the Italian post office in the '70s end up with such an unmanageable backlog that they simply burnt it?
  • Yesterday I happened to see the last half hour of the new "All Creatures Great and Small" series on PBS. Am an old fan of the orginal.

    Within a few minutes I was hooked. The casting is great, the scenery is great, the script and dialogue faithful to the (first) book and original TV show. But not just copy, a new take with some new twists.

    No doubt helped that I immediately fell in love with the new Helen!

    Am going to watch the whole of episode 1 via the web shortly.

    AND will do my damnedest not to miss episode 2 which features the late, great Diana Rigg as Mrs Pumphrey.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    They should go ahead as 100% postal.
    Would that not give the conservatives quite an advantage though
    Not sure. Think it would see local results mirror national results much more than normal.

    So in cities it would help Labour, I suspect.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,127

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    Agreed. Some places are a year out of cycle as it is. Turnout is such that split over two days appropriate measures can be taken, sufficient people should have been vaccinated by then to staff polling places and counting isn't going to cause any difficulties (plans are already in place for alternative arrangements).
  • kle4 said:

    It's a variant of whataboutism - "X is bad, so Y (that I dislike for other reasons) is bad in the same way". You see it on the left too when Thatcher gets dragged into every conversation.

    Happens with Boris a lot as well. Corbyn was, in my view, very unsuitable to be PM, but such parallels that can be made with him and Trump do not extend anywhere near that far, it's just unreasonable.
    I suspect that Corbyn and his crowd would have handled the pandemic at least as well as the current mob, although they would have had to cope with a far less friendly press, so it would probably have felt worse.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    So less than 50% voted for Boris Johnson's Government. And your point is?

    The delay, particularly in Wales, Scotland and London may assist the Tories, if the respective leaders have made errors in the management of the pandemic. Or do you think by September, the Westminster Government will be unpopular enough that a postponed election could take votes from Tory candidates?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    BREAKING: FBI says it warned of a “war at the Capitol” in advance of the rally
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited January 2021
    Incidentally, I don't know about the Chartwell's subsidiary specifically, but Compass is a seriously impressive organisation. It is superbly run, and is one of the great British success stories. It is extraordinary that it's not better known - this is a company which has been amazingly successful all over Europe and in the US (where UK companies traditionally come a cropper). And all it does is outsourced catering, which you would have thought would be a very hard area in which to get a big competitive advantage. It gets that advantage by providing superb service and good-quality food at a better price that customers can do themselves. I believe it's the biggest in its field in the world - 600,000 employees serving (in normal times) 5.5 billion meals a year.

    Of course it's been badly hit by the pandemic, which has clobbered the market for catering and hospitality, with many customer sites closed or with much reduced headcounts.

    Tragically the Managing Director who built up the company, Richard Cousins, was killed in a light plane crash in Australia in 2017, together with his two sons, his fiancée and her daughter, as well as the pilot.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    My Great Grandmother died when I was 4. I do just about remember her. She always said that her grandfather had been a boot boy for the Duke of Wellington. No idea if it was true but the maths worked.
    Wellington boot boy ?
    I think she was pulling your...
    Oh I am sure she was. What always interested me afterwards was that the maths worked. Her Grandfather was born in 1834.

    It just amazes me how close we are, by degrees of separation, to historical figures.
    Wifey used to see an old lady when she was a child, whose father made the shoes for Queen Victoria at her wedding.....
    My father knew Lloyd George, apparently.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    BBC News - Covid-19: London's Nightingale hospital taking patients
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55619580

    Oh crap. That’s the first emergency field hospital they’ve actually had to use.
  • kle4 said:

    It's a variant of whataboutism - "X is bad, so Y (that I dislike for other reasons) is bad in the same way". You see it on the left too when Thatcher gets dragged into every conversation.

    Happens with Boris a lot as well. Corbyn was, in my view, very unsuitable to be PM, but such parallels that can be made with him and Trump do not extend anywhere near that far, it's just unreasonable.
    I suspect that Corbyn and his crowd would have handled the pandemic at least as well as the current mob, although they would have had to cope with a far less friendly press, so it would probably have felt worse.
    Hmm, not so sure about that. Would Corbyn really have done all those vaccine deals with the evil multinational pharmaceutical companies?
  • HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    Or put it another way only 22% of voters want the elections to go ahead on the scheduled date.
  • isam said:

    geoffw said:

    Why the hell couldn't they use vouchers? It's a Tory government fgs.

    Because bellend Tory MPs like Ben Bradley kept on banging on that the vouchers would be used to buy drugs and hookers.

    So it would be better to send the food direct.
    Drug dealers and Brasses take vouchers now?!
    According to Ben Bradley that is what they were "effectively" being spent on. So companies whose owners happen to be mates of Tory bigwigs get given £30 and pass a fraction on to the kids instead.
    I'm not totally opposed to the argument that actual food should be provided rather than cash or vouchers when schools aren't open.

    The point of having free meals for kids from poorer families when schools were open was to ensure young people were getting a nutritious meal - cash or a voucher could have been provided instead at that time but there has long been a concern that wouldn't translate into a decent meal for the kid in a (fairly small) proportion of cases. Ben Bradley puts it horrifically, but there is the kernel of truth somewhere there.

    But the trouble is that this was a pretty predictable problem when procuring in a hurry. You can't manage or even see it in the same way as a caterer running the school canteen. It's not a massive surprise at least some suppliers are dreadful con-men (whether or not they are also mates of Tory ministers). So they should've kept it simple.
    Let us not pretend the government were in a hurry on this!

    We had a national voucher scheme in 2020 that was working. There was no hurry to do anything other than extend it, which the govt voted against and replaced it with this local outsourced bureaucratic nonsense.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,127
    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
    Not necessarily. A lot of volunteers are elderly and will have been vaccinated by May. Places with multiple stations per place just halve the number, and spread it over 2 days.

    These are just spitballing ideas, there'll be more to it, but those I know in elections don't seem hugely worried about the logistics of preparing for May at present.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    My Great Grandmother died when I was 4. I do just about remember her. She always said that her grandfather had been a boot boy for the Duke of Wellington. No idea if it was true but the maths worked.
    Wellington boot boy ?
    I think she was pulling your...
    Oh I am sure she was. What always interested me afterwards was that the maths worked. Her Grandfather was born in 1834.

    It just amazes me how close we are, by degrees of separation, to historical figures.
    Wifey used to see an old lady when she was a child, whose father made the shoes for Queen Victoria at her wedding.....
    My father knew Lloyd George, apparently.
    So long as your mother didn't, it will be OK!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    kle4 said:

    It's a variant of whataboutism - "X is bad, so Y (that I dislike for other reasons) is bad in the same way". You see it on the left too when Thatcher gets dragged into every conversation.

    Happens with Boris a lot as well. Corbyn was, in my view, very unsuitable to be PM, but such parallels that can be made with him and Trump do not extend anywhere near that far, it's just unreasonable.
    I suspect that Corbyn and his crowd would have handled the pandemic at least as well as the current mob, although they would have had to cope with a far less friendly press, so it would probably have felt worse.
    Hmm, not so sure about that. Would Corbyn really have done all those vaccine deals with the evil multinational pharmaceutical companies?
    I think we'd have seen far greater restrictions on firms, too. Things like Drakeford's 'supermarkets cant say non essential products', on steroids....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Did anyone hear the sonic boom?

    QRA were scrambled from RAF Conningsby to intercept a private plane that lost communications close to London, he was escorted to Stanstead after comms were restored.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/12/sonic-boom-heard-raf-fighter-jets-scramble-intercept-private/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,127

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    Or put it another way only 22% of voters want the elections to go ahead on the scheduled date.
    Only about 10-15% less than those who will bother to vote in them. (Or more than will vote in them, if we are talking PCC)
  • kle4 said:

    It's a variant of whataboutism - "X is bad, so Y (that I dislike for other reasons) is bad in the same way". You see it on the left too when Thatcher gets dragged into every conversation.

    Happens with Boris a lot as well. Corbyn was, in my view, very unsuitable to be PM, but such parallels that can be made with him and Trump do not extend anywhere near that far, it's just unreasonable.
    I suspect that Corbyn and his crowd would have handled the pandemic at least as well as the current mob, although they would have had to cope with a far less friendly press, so it would probably have felt worse.
    Hmm, not so sure about that. Would Corbyn really have done all those vaccine deals with the evil multinational pharmaceutical companies?
    We'd have got the Russian or Chinese vaccine.
  • Yesterday I happened to see the last half hour of the new "All Creatures Great and Small" series on PBS. Am an old fan of the orginal.

    Within a few minutes I was hooked. The casting is great, the scenery is great, the script and dialogue faithful to the (first) book and original TV show. But not just copy, a new take with some new twists.

    No doubt helped that I immediately fell in love with the new Helen!

    Best thing on Channel 5 (UK) in a long time.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    They should go ahead as 100% postal.
    Would that not give the conservatives quite an advantage though
    No; you haven’t thought it through. Having a postal vote doesn’t influence your voting behaviour; insofar as there is causality (and it is much weaker than it was), that works the other way around.

    Conservatives tend to turn out in higher proportions already at local elections. Insofar as an all-postal election encourages people to vote who otherwise wouldn’t, it probably favours Labour.

  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    edited January 2021
    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
    Not necessarily. A lot of volunteers are elderly and will have been vaccinated by May. Places with multiple stations per place just halve the number, and spread it over 2 days.

    These are just spitballing ideas, there'll be more to it, but those I know in elections don't seem hugely worried about the logistics of preparing for May at present.

    Cabinet office will deny until an announcement is made. But I'd say chances of May elections are sub 5% at present.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,603
    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - Covid-19: London's Nightingale hospital taking patients
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55619580

    Oh crap. That’s the first emergency field hospital they’ve actually had to use.
    The Nightingale in Exeter has been in use since early December, when it had 20 patients.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
    Not necessarily. A lot of volunteers are elderly and will have been vaccinated by May. Places with multiple stations per place just halve the number, and spread it over 2 days.

    These are just spitballing ideas, there'll be more to it, but those I know in elections don't seem hugely worried about the logistics of preparing for May at present.
    Those I know in elections are all talking about how long the delay will be....

    Cabinet office will deny until an announcement is made. But I'd say chances of May elections are sub 5% at present.
    Delaying the elections would require primary legislation.

    I wonder if their Lordships might push back on delaying again the 2020 local elections?
  • I thought the vaccines hadn't been tested on children?

    Israel expects to start vaccinating children by March, virus chief says

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-israel-idUSKBN29H16G
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited January 2021
    The island’s hospital is filling rapidly and desperate measures are being planned:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/12/army-helicopters-may-be-sent-to-evacuate-covid-patients-from-isle-of-wight-amid-surge

    The Tier system may come to be seen as yet another government mistake. Those areas excluded from the tightest restrictions became magnets for visitors, second home owners, boozing daytrippers and SeanT type refugees, and very quickly their infection rates started to increase.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    Does Trump even like golf? Surely somebody who cheats as much as he does cannot have a genuine passion for it.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,681

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    1,232 deaths?

    Did hear that I right.

    Just concentrate on the vaccine numbers. They are much more cheerful.
    Did they announce a figure today?
    Total vaccinated today is 2,431k, up 145k on yesterday. Which is considerably less than the 200k per day Hancock claimed at the weekend. So at that rate, assuming they are working 7 days, it will be 1,015k per week and we would get to about 6m by mid-Feb. But presumably the rate will increase....

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare#card-people_who_have_received_vaccinations_by_report_date_daily
    Anecdotally there are clearly some practices using their vaccine and staff to do the originally promised second doses to some of the elderly. Which may reduce the number of new vaccinations being done
    The stats are total of both first and second doses I guess, so the number of people vaccinated will be less than the total number of vaccinations delivered.
    I think it was 145,076 first doses and 20,768 second doses, unless I'm misreading.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
    Not necessarily. A lot of volunteers are elderly and will have been vaccinated by May. Places with multiple stations per place just halve the number, and spread it over 2 days.

    These are just spitballing ideas, there'll be more to it, but those I know in elections don't seem hugely worried about the logistics of preparing for May at present.
    Those I know in elections are all talking about how long the delay will be....

    Cabinet office will deny until an announcement is made. But I'd say chances of May elections are sub 5% at present.
    Delaying the elections would require primary legislation.

    I wonder if their Lordships might push back on delaying again the 2020 local elections?
    Provision of the Public Health rules?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    edited January 2021

    I thought the vaccines hadn't been tested on children?

    Israel expects to start vaccinating children by March, virus chief says

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-israel-idUSKBN29H16G

    Pfizer are running a trial for 13-17 year olds, it may be ready to report by then.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,671
    edited January 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
    Not necessarily. A lot of volunteers are elderly and will have been vaccinated by May. Places with multiple stations per place just halve the number, and spread it over 2 days.

    These are just spitballing ideas, there'll be more to it, but those I know in elections don't seem hugely worried about the logistics of preparing for May at present.
    Those I know in elections are all talking about how long the delay will be....

    Cabinet office will deny until an announcement is made. But I'd say chances of May elections are sub 5% at present.
    Delaying the elections would require primary legislation.

    I wonder if their Lordships might push back on delaying again the 2020 local elections?
    Does it? The English elections were delayed via the Coronavirus Act 2020 which gave the government the ability to delay them until anytime in 2021?

    Not sure if the devolved assemblies need primary legislation in 2021, I think their equivalent laws gave them similar powers.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
    Not necessarily. A lot of volunteers are elderly and will have been vaccinated by May. Places with multiple stations per place just halve the number, and spread it over 2 days.

    These are just spitballing ideas, there'll be more to it, but those I know in elections don't seem hugely worried about the logistics of preparing for May at present.
    Those I know in elections are all talking about how long the delay will be....

    Cabinet office will deny until an announcement is made. But I'd say chances of May elections are sub 5% at present.
    Delaying the elections would require primary legislation.

    I wonder if their Lordships might push back on delaying again the 2020 local elections?
    Provision of the Public Health rules?
    Bollocks

    Get a postal vote mate
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,127
    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
    Not necessarily. A lot of volunteers are elderly and will have been vaccinated by May. Places with multiple stations per place just halve the number, and spread it over 2 days.

    These are just spitballing ideas, there'll be more to it, but those I know in elections don't seem hugely worried about the logistics of preparing for May at present.

    Cabinet office will deny until an announcement is made. But I'd say chances of May elections are sub 5% at present.
    I think it very unlikely they will now go ahead - plenty of people want the delay and not enough people care enough one way or another to prevent that, so it is an easy decision for the government. But I think the logistical challenges of it have been overplayed.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Yesterday I happened to see the last half hour of the new "All Creatures Great and Small" series on PBS. Am an old fan of the orginal.

    Within a few minutes I was hooked. The casting is great, the scenery is great, the script and dialogue faithful to the (first) book and original TV show. But not just copy, a new take with some new twists.

    No doubt helped that I immediately fell in love with the new Helen!

    Best thing on Channel 5 (UK) in a long time.
    A very low bar.
  • Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
    Not necessarily. A lot of volunteers are elderly and will have been vaccinated by May. Places with multiple stations per place just halve the number, and spread it over 2 days.

    These are just spitballing ideas, there'll be more to it, but those I know in elections don't seem hugely worried about the logistics of preparing for May at present.
    Those I know in elections are all talking about how long the delay will be....

    Cabinet office will deny until an announcement is made. But I'd say chances of May elections are sub 5% at present.
    Delaying the elections would require primary legislation.

    I wonder if their Lordships might push back on delaying again the 2020 local elections?
    Provision of the Public Health rules?
    Bollocks

    Get a postal vote mate
    Postal votes won't help.

    You'll still need to leave the house to apply for one and then send it out.

    The big problem with holding the elections before enough people are vaccinated is having enough people at the polling stations and counts.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,681

    Does Trump even like golf? Surely somebody who cheats as much as he does cannot have a genuine passion for it.
    That's his worst sin of all. Cheating at golf is - not cricket.
  • Does Trump even like golf? Surely somebody who cheats as much as he does cannot have a genuine passion for it.
    Some have a passion FOR cheating at golf. Cheaters at business AND pleasure - gentleman cads and phony players.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,127
    edited January 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
    Not necessarily. A lot of volunteers are elderly and will have been vaccinated by May. Places with multiple stations per place just halve the number, and spread it over 2 days.

    These are just spitballing ideas, there'll be more to it, but those I know in elections don't seem hugely worried about the logistics of preparing for May at present.
    Those I know in elections are all talking about how long the delay will be....

    Cabinet office will deny until an announcement is made. But I'd say chances of May elections are sub 5% at present.
    Delaying the elections would require primary legislation.

    I wonder if their Lordships might push back on delaying again the 2020 local elections?
    Does it? The English elections were delayed via the Coronavirus Act 2020 which gave the government the ability to delay them until anytime in 2021?

    Not sure if the devolved assemblies need primary legislation in 2021, I think their equivalent laws gave them similar powers.
    I thought the Act delayed them until May 2021 specifically. DId regs allow that to be altered?

    Edit: Looks like yes.
  • Does Trump even like golf? Surely somebody who cheats as much as he does cannot have a genuine passion for it.
    That's his worst sin of all. Cheating at golf is - not cricket.
    Donald Trump is the Steve Smith of golf.

    Cheating Aussie shits.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
    Not necessarily. A lot of volunteers are elderly and will have been vaccinated by May. Places with multiple stations per place just halve the number, and spread it over 2 days.

    These are just spitballing ideas, there'll be more to it, but those I know in elections don't seem hugely worried about the logistics of preparing for May at present.
    Those I know in elections are all talking about how long the delay will be....

    Cabinet office will deny until an announcement is made. But I'd say chances of May elections are sub 5% at present.
    Delaying the elections would require primary legislation.

    I wonder if their Lordships might push back on delaying again the 2020 local elections?
    Provision of the Public Health rules?
    Bollocks

    Get a postal vote mate
    Postal votes won't help.

    You'll still need to leave the house to apply for one and then send it out.

    The big problem with holding the elections before enough people are vaccinated is having enough people at the polling stations and counts.
    I applied for one by email, but yes, posting it will require leaving the house. Better to just delay until September when we know we'll have the majority of people immunised.
  • kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
    Not necessarily. A lot of volunteers are elderly and will have been vaccinated by May. Places with multiple stations per place just halve the number, and spread it over 2 days.

    These are just spitballing ideas, there'll be more to it, but those I know in elections don't seem hugely worried about the logistics of preparing for May at present.
    Those I know in elections are all talking about how long the delay will be....

    Cabinet office will deny until an announcement is made. But I'd say chances of May elections are sub 5% at present.
    Delaying the elections would require primary legislation.

    I wonder if their Lordships might push back on delaying again the 2020 local elections?
    Does it? The English elections were delayed via the Coronavirus Act 2020 which gave the government the ability to delay them until anytime in 2021?

    Not sure if the devolved assemblies need primary legislation in 2021, I think their equivalent laws gave them similar powers.
    I thought the Act delayed them until May 2021 specifically.
    It did but I thought it gave the government the ability to delay it further if it is solely related to public health.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798


    Most working age people who receive benefits are in work. Many more are disabled. To slander them as workshy layabouts is disgusting.

    Which is why Osborne cut benefits for the well-off, including child benefit for people earning £100K+. Labour opposed that. It is also why he increased benefits for the disabled. It is also why he addressed the disgraceful anomaly that lower-paid workers, without adequate housing for their families, were subsidising older people with spare rooms they no longer needed.

    The whole welfare system inherited from Brown was a complete mess - wasteful, poorly-targeted, very expensive, and very unfair. It sounds as though you wanted to keep it that way.
    If his motives were so pure and high minded then why the nasty slander against benefit recipients? I doubt that the people "sleeping off a life on benefits" he had in mind were people on six figure incomes getting child benefit. His reforms pushed many people into poverty and misery, too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited January 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
    Not necessarily. A lot of volunteers are elderly and will have been vaccinated by May. Places with multiple stations per place just halve the number, and spread it over 2 days.

    These are just spitballing ideas, there'll be more to it, but those I know in elections don't seem hugely worried about the logistics of preparing for May at present.
    Those I know in elections are all talking about how long the delay will be....

    Cabinet office will deny until an announcement is made. But I'd say chances of May elections are sub 5% at present.
    Delaying the elections would require primary legislation.

    I wonder if their Lordships might push back on delaying again the 2020 local elections?
    Does it? The English elections were delayed via the Coronavirus Act 2020 which gave the government the ability to delay them until anytime in 2021?

    Not sure if the devolved assemblies need primary legislation in 2021, I think their equivalent laws gave them similar powers.
    My reference was this one:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/postponement-of-may-2020-elections

    If the 2020 elections can be rescheduled for later this year, there will still need to be fresh legislation for the 2021 elections to be postponed.

    Can the devolved parliaments postpone their own elections, or does that also require primary legislation at the U.K. level?
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    So less than 50% want to postpone the elections then.

    Plus moving it from the Spring, by which time most of the most vulnerable to Covid will be vaccinated, to the autumn as we start flu season again is not a great idea.

    You can also have early voting and postal voting too as the US did last year
    I don't often agree with HYUFD but yeah, come on, we need to get these elections done to the original timetable. We can't simultaneously have governments talking about better things by the spring because of vaccination but also cancelling May elections. Unless they're really saying there's not a cat's chance in hell of anything being vaguely close to normal by May, in which case they ought to be saying that now.

    Commit to it now and put out a big campaign to get everyone who is uncomfortable at the thought registered for a postal vote, and consider the possibility of maybe splitting in-person voting over two days or something.
    If people can do their shopping at the supermarket, they can manage to vote at a polling station.
    Manning them would be VERY difficult.
    Not necessarily. A lot of volunteers are elderly and will have been vaccinated by May. Places with multiple stations per place just halve the number, and spread it over 2 days.

    These are just spitballing ideas, there'll be more to it, but those I know in elections don't seem hugely worried about the logistics of preparing for May at present.
    Those I know in elections are all talking about how long the delay will be....

    Cabinet office will deny until an announcement is made. But I'd say chances of May elections are sub 5% at present.
    Delaying the elections would require primary legislation.

    I wonder if their Lordships might push back on delaying again the 2020 local elections?
    Does it? The English elections were delayed via the Coronavirus Act 2020 which gave the government the ability to delay them until anytime in 2021?

    Not sure if the devolved assemblies need primary legislation in 2021, I think their equivalent laws gave them similar powers.
    My reference was this one:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/postponement-of-may-2020-elections

    If the 2020 elections can be rescheduled for later this year, there will still need to be fresh legislation for the 2021 elections to be postponed.

    Can the devolved parliaments postpone their own elections, or does that also require primary legislation at the U.K. level?
    The devolved parliaments passed their own legislation to delay their elections.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,127
    If there is a delay in the elections, it should not be for long - and if it is, then by-elections should be permissable, as quite a few vacancies are piling up.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    1,232 deaths?

    Did hear that I right.

    Just concentrate on the vaccine numbers. They are much more cheerful.
    Did they announce a figure today?
    Total vaccinated today is 2,431k, up 145k on yesterday. Which is considerably less than the 200k per day Hancock claimed at the weekend. So at that rate, assuming they are working 7 days, it will be 1,015k per week and we would get to about 6m by mid-Feb. But presumably the rate will increase....

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare#card-people_who_have_received_vaccinations_by_report_date_daily
    Anecdotally there are clearly some practices using their vaccine and staff to do the originally promised second doses to some of the elderly. Which may reduce the number of new vaccinations being done
    I am sure pb.com will be pleased to know the whining Baroness Bakewell has her second.

    https://tinyurl.com/y3rlkezt

    And she is now taking the Govt to court "on behalf of those waiting to have a second Pfizer Vaccine."

    Of course, she is not using her own money, you can crowdfund her legal challenge -- should you feel so inclined.

    A silly self-entitled women.

    Bakewell watchers will know that the other thing she regular gets exercised about is any suggestion people living in huge mansions in North London should pay any more tax. She was apoplectic about the idea of a Mansion Tax.

    I sometimes wonder why Baroness Bakewell of Stockport is in the Labour Party.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,127

    Does Trump even like golf? Surely somebody who cheats as much as he does cannot have a genuine passion for it.
    It seems likely he does, he just also hates to lose at anything.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,100
    edited January 2021

    kle4 said:

    It's a variant of whataboutism - "X is bad, so Y (that I dislike for other reasons) is bad in the same way". You see it on the left too when Thatcher gets dragged into every conversation.

    Happens with Boris a lot as well. Corbyn was, in my view, very unsuitable to be PM, but such parallels that can be made with him and Trump do not extend anywhere near that far, it's just unreasonable.
    I suspect that Corbyn and his crowd would have handled the pandemic at least as well as the current mob, although they would have had to cope with a far less friendly press, so it would probably have felt worse.
    Hmm, not so sure about that. Would Corbyn really have done all those vaccine deals with the evil multinational pharmaceutical companies?
    We'd have got the Russian or Chinese vaccine.
    Probably even worse....he would have instructed the NHS to make a copy of it...not understanding the NHS can't do such things and of course there are rules on IP.

    Remember this was literally his policy that he ran on.
  • Does Trump even like golf? Surely somebody who cheats as much as he does cannot have a genuine passion for it.
    That's his worst sin of all. Cheating at golf is - not cricket.
    Can you imagine how much our most golf loving dead Presidents - esp. Republicans Harding, Eisenhower, Reagan & W - would regard the vermin no only currently investing the White House, but also sullying "a good walk spoiled" (or visa versa).

    Certainly helps explain why George W. Bush and Barack Obama NEVER liked the swine, even before he disgraced his country, violated his oath AND urged the violent overthrow of the duly-elected government of the United States.

    Donald Trumpsky = Judge Smailes but without the redeeming comedic value
  • What did Ms Whiplash have to say at the press conference? Anything interesting?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    kle4 said:

    It's a variant of whataboutism - "X is bad, so Y (that I dislike for other reasons) is bad in the same way". You see it on the left too when Thatcher gets dragged into every conversation.

    Happens with Boris a lot as well. Corbyn was, in my view, very unsuitable to be PM, but such parallels that can be made with him and Trump do not extend anywhere near that far, it's just unreasonable.
    I suspect that Corbyn and his crowd would have handled the pandemic at least as well as the current mob, although they would have had to cope with a far less friendly press, so it would probably have felt worse.
    Hmm, not so sure about that. Would Corbyn really have done all those vaccine deals with the evil multinational pharmaceutical companies?
    We'd have got the Russian or Chinese vaccine.
    Probably even worse....he would have instructed the NHS to make a copy of it...not understanding the NHS can't do such things and of course there are rules on IP.

    Remember this was literally his policy that he ran on.
    Corbyn, had he won and faced this crisis, would not be PM by now. He would have been swept away by a national government led by the sane wing of the party.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    IanB2 said:

    Yesterday I happened to see the last half hour of the new "All Creatures Great and Small" series on PBS. Am an old fan of the orginal.

    Within a few minutes I was hooked. The casting is great, the scenery is great, the script and dialogue faithful to the (first) book and original TV show. But not just copy, a new take with some new twists.

    No doubt helped that I immediately fell in love with the new Helen!

    Best thing on Channel 5 (UK) in a long time.
    A very low bar.
    There was a tale/rumour that Ch5 only got the show because the BBC turned it down.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    1,232 deaths?

    Did hear that I right.

    Just concentrate on the vaccine numbers. They are much more cheerful.
    Did they announce a figure today?
    Total vaccinated today is 2,431k, up 145k on yesterday. Which is considerably less than the 200k per day Hancock claimed at the weekend. So at that rate, assuming they are working 7 days, it will be 1,015k per week and we would get to about 6m by mid-Feb. But presumably the rate will increase....

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare#card-people_who_have_received_vaccinations_by_report_date_daily
    Anecdotally there are clearly some practices using their vaccine and staff to do the originally promised second doses to some of the elderly. Which may reduce the number of new vaccinations being done
    I am sure pb.com will be pleased to know the whining Baroness Bakewell has her second.

    https://tinyurl.com/y3rlkezt

    And she is now taking the Govt to court "on behalf of those waiting to have a second Pfizer Vaccine."

    Of course, she is not using her own money, you can crowdfund her legal challenge -- should you feel so inclined.

    A silly self-entitled women.

    Bakewell watchers will know that the other thing she regular gets exercised about is any suggestion people living in huge mansions in North London should pay any more tax. She was apoplectic about the idea of a Mansion Tax.

    I sometimes wonder why Baroness Bakewell of Stockport is in the Labour Party.
    What a ridiculous woman, Labour need to kick her out of the party.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Cyclefree said:

    I rather think this is the key paragraph in that article -

    "There will always be cults, fanatics and demagogues; political parties are always vulnerable to capture. That’s why we need constitutions, written or unwritten. That’s why we should value established institutions and the rule of law. That’s why we must do everything to preserve our independent judiciaries and impartial civil services. In the taming of Trump, America has taught us all an invaluable lesson."


    And that it is addressed at some of his former colleagues in Parliament here.

    That, of course, is absolutely right. But it's not only supporters of far left and far right that need to remember it - very few governments entirely resist the temptation to have a pop at the judiciary, though they stop short of the blatantly political appointments that seem to be common practice in the US.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,671
    edited January 2021
    Totally unrelated but need to let my boss and OGH know I'm off to the UAE soon.

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1349072532360589320
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    My Great Grandmother died when I was 4. I do just about remember her. She always said that her grandfather had been a boot boy for the Duke of Wellington. No idea if it was true but the maths worked.
    Wellington boot boy ?
    I think she was pulling your...
    Oh I am sure she was. What always interested me afterwards was that the maths worked. Her Grandfather was born in 1834.

    It just amazes me how close we are, by degrees of separation, to historical figures.
    Wifey used to see an old lady when she was a child, whose father made the shoes for Queen Victoria at her wedding.....
    My father knew Lloyd George, apparently.
    Though presumably NOT so well as Francis Stevenson (aka Lady Lloyd-George)?

    FYI, the American equivalent of "Lloyd George Knew My Father" is the "George Washington Bridge" song.
  • All bellowing on Twitter about how they can feed a family of 8 on £14 a week I'd imagine.

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1348974954042241028?s=20.
This discussion has been closed.