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George Osborne argues that the way Trump’s been constrained shows that democracy is working – politi

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  • People are getting a little testy about the Corbyn comparison, not unreasonably to some extent - Trump does operate on a level not generally seen over here. And yet, and yet ... if you gave Corbyn the kind of political power and media reach Trump had, is it really that hard to imagine him imposing his loony left agenda on the country with an army of hundreds of thousands of, er, 'passionate' Momentumites cheering his every word at boisterous rallies? He's easy to laugh at now that Boris has annihilated him, but his defeat in the UK was just as essential as Trump's in the US.

    The moral courage shown by Shadow Cabinet members like Starmer who supported him uncritically for years is unimpressive, to say the least.

    Trump and Corbyn are not comparable.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Nigelb said:
    Wow. That’s quite the story!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    She really does drop her Gs.

    Is it wrong to find her rather alluring?
    Yes, and no (at the same time), You know you shouldn't, but you would...
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    edited January 2021
    DavidL said:

    1,232 deaths?

    Did hear that I right.

    Just concentrate on the vaccine numbers. They are much more cheerful.
    Did they announce a figure today?
    Total vaccinated today is 2,431k, up 145k on yesterday. Which is considerably less than the 200k per day Hancock claimed at the weekend. So at that rate, assuming they are working 7 days, it will be 1,015k per week and we would get to about 6m by mid-Feb. But presumably the rate will increase....

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare#card-people_who_have_received_vaccinations_by_report_date_daily
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,360

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Not Compass, but it is clear this is a real problem.

    https://twitter.com/Kate_M_Proctor/status/1349032954102689802

    WTF is with the bottled water???? What a waste of money, and plastic.

    The quoted woman is correct. Imagine receiving this crap. Like it is designed to humiliate. The tuna dumped in a Starbucks coffee cup. Half a pepper wrapped in clingfilm. Two inches of carrot.

    And all this during a plague.

    As someone said on Twitter, even Dickens would have hesitated to describe someone doing this, for profit, to poor families, during a pandemic, as it would be regarded as unbelievable

    It IS designed to humiliate. Crucial to Tory thinking. Question is whether this is as great a factor as price-gouging, best mates, and simple lack of human respect and consideration for practical issues such as, y'know, basic nutrition.

    Like that ham in clingfilm in another photo - the tuna must be a massive food poisoning risk.
    It is really strange if you actually do think that the idea behind finding this extra £30 a week to feed these people was to humiliate them. I think the food packages I've seen are terrible, but I don't actually think the scheme was conceived with wickedness in mind - that is Grade A paranoia. I think we should also remember that the party you support favours giving people cardboard boxes to put their baby into. What's that if it isn't humiliating?
    To discourage them from ever having the daring to claim benefits, that is why. There is a fine line between calreless negligence and a kind of negligence which is complicit in effectively accepting the side effect of humiliation. I didn't say humiliation was th eprime aim - and made it quite clear that there are other aims in all this - but if it is an inevitable effect, then it has to be reckoned in.

    Those boxes show no respect at all for the childrens' needs - or for the parents' desperate anxiety to look after the children (which is supposed to be a very Tory thing, as if it couldn't be true of Labour supporters e.g.)

    You need to read up about the SG baby boxes. They have rather more useful contents - and the bit about putting the baby in is optional (but surprisingly popular, and sensible as the box is recyclable and not many families have that many, so it saves spending on a crib without feeling too singled out ...).

    But are you suggesting that the idea of food boxes per se is an act of attempted humiliation, or that the Government has actively contrived to ensure crap food boxes that don't represent value to the taxpayer? The latter seems incredibly unlikely, if only because they introduced the policy in the first place to avoid the impression of being miserly and cruel. There has been (perhaps) a lack of rigour, not active malevolence.

    If it's the first, that the idea of food boxes (as opposed to money to spend) is offensive, then it is utter hypocrisy to defend the SNP giving new families the gift of a cardboard box into which to place their baby (ffs!), rather than a cash benefit - presumably because otherwise the feckless individuals concerned would spend it on fags and store their baby in the microwaive or a flowerpot.

    I don't think a decent box is offensive per se (and may be more useful for some parents than having to go to the shop so often) - it is the only option given the reaction of the Tories themselves to allowing people to have the money as dfiscussed on PB today. It's the way in which it is done.
    Good - I completely agree. And a nice food box is a nice thing to receive.

    Now the problem has been highlighted, regardless of cause, let's hope to see extremely well-done food boxes with excellent items in them.
    Agreed. Although the outrage bus will be unsatisfied until every box contains at least one egg.

    Designed by Karl Faberge.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    If we continue with the impressive speed of vaccinations I'd imagine some restrictions will be lifted at the start of March.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    My father (94) finally got his vaccination today. Very efficiently done apparently. Surprised it was the Pfizer one.

    On another note, particularly if @Foxy is here, I would be interested in any feedback on something else. I became very hoarse just before Christmas, without any other symptoms. My wife (a Doctor, but a pathologist and now working in drug safety so not her expertise) suggested leaving for a couple of weeks to see if it cleared up. It didn't. I saw the GP Friday evening who arranged a hospital appointment. On Monday I got a telephone appointment for today which was pretty impressive. I spoke to an ENT surgeon an hour ago who is going to organise an urgent hospital visit for me. His first reaction from my description and my voice was vocal cord paralysis. Not something my wife thought of. Don't like what I read about it, although he seemed pretty chipper about it. Obviously I am worried.

    Sorry to hear that. Are you still at work and holding meetings? I have had a sore throat on and off for the past few months and realised that it is because I am sitting here shouting at zoom/teams meetings all day.

    IANAD, obvs!
    I'm retired. However I am (normally) very loud and talk a lot (I'm guessing that comes as no surprise). My first concern was cancer (as it appeared was my GPs concern), but it seems there are multitude of other equally horrible things it can be. I am of course ignoring the mild causes.
    Who was it who said that whenever they get a symptom, or even read about something in the papers, they are absolutely certain that they have the serious, inoperable version of it.

    Whereas the vast majority of conditions are, literally, nothing - nice post from @AlwaysSinging upthread which should be of some comfort.
    It was in Three men in a boat:

    I remember going to the British Museum one day to read up the treatment for some slight ailment of which I had a touch – hay fever, I fancy it was. I got down the book, and read all I came to read; and then, in an unthinking moment, I idly turned the leaves, and began to indolently study diseases, generally. I forget which was the first distemper I plunged into – some fearful, devastating scourge, I know – and, before I had glanced half down the list of “premonitory symptoms,” it was borne in upon me that I had fairly got it.

    I sat for awhile, frozen with horror; and then, in the listlessness of despair, I again turned over the pages. I came to typhoid fever – read the symptoms – discovered that I had typhoid fever, must have had it for months without knowing it – wondered what else I had got; turned up St. Vitus’s Dance – found, as I expected, that I had that too, – began to get interested in my case, and determined to sift it to the bottom, and so started alphabetically – read up ague, and learnt that I was sickening for it, and that the acute stage would commence in about another fortnight. Bright’s disease, I was relieved to find, I had only in a modified form, and, so far as that was concerned, I might live for years. Cholera I had, with severe complications; and diphtheria I seemed to have been born with. I plodded conscientiously through the twenty-six letters, and the only malady I could conclude I had not got was housemaid’s knee.

    I felt rather hurt about this at first; it seemed somehow to be a sort of slight. Why hadn’t I got housemaid’s knee? Why this invidious reservation? After a while, however, less grasping feelings prevailed. I reflected that I had every other known malady in the pharmacology, and I grew less selfish, and determined to do without housemaid’s knee. Gout, in its most malignant stage, it would appear, had seized me without my being aware of it; and zymosis I had evidently been suffering with from boyhood. There were no more diseases after zymosis, so I concluded there was nothing else the matter with me.
    Very good.

    What do they say these days? A small amount of time googling symptoms on google inevitably ends up with a diagnosis of Leukemia.

    A doctor once told me to google only diagnoses not symptoms. Advice I have taken since that point.

    A friend told meanwhile me his doctor had told him he was suffering from google-induced hypertension...
    The only time I ever googled a symptom it gave sixteen possible causes, the first fifteen of which you really didn't want it to be. The sixteenth suggested I may have eaten too much beetroot.

    You cannot imagine the relief.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    People are getting a little testy about the Corbyn comparison, not unreasonably to some extent - Trump does operate on a level not generally seen over here. And yet, and yet ... if you gave Corbyn the kind of political power and media reach Trump had, is it really that hard to imagine him imposing his loony left agenda on the country with an army of hundreds of thousands of, er, 'passionate' Momentumites cheering his every word at boisterous rallies? He's easy to laugh at now that Boris has annihilated him, but his defeat in the UK was just as essential as Trump's in the US.

    The moral courage shown by Shadow Cabinet members like Starmer who supported him uncritically for years is unimpressive, to say the least.

    Who is getting testy?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    DavidL said:

    1,232 deaths?

    Did hear that I right.

    Just concentrate on the vaccine numbers. They are much more cheerful.
    Did they announce a figure today?
    Total vaccinated today is 2,431k, up 145k on yesterday. Which is considerably less than the 200k per day Hancock claimed at the weekend. So at that rate, assuming they are working 7 days, it will be 1,015k per week and we would get to about 6m by mid-Feb. But presumably the rate will increase....
    Thanks. It will need to more than double from there, more like treble. But as we saw with the testing these things do acquire momentum as they get going.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    TimT said:

    So running about a million a week, presuming a 7-day per week operation. Great!! Now let's get that up to 2m per week.
    145k in a day is pathetic, well behind where we need to be.

    No doubt the media will prefer to prattle on about bikes and tea-drinking blondes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Not worrying at all...

    The military has a hate group problem. But it doesn't know how bad it's gotten.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/11/military-right-wing-extremism-457861
  • DavidL said:

    1,232 deaths?

    Did hear that I right.

    Just concentrate on the vaccine numbers. They are much more cheerful.
    Did they announce a figure today?
    Total vaccinated today is 2,431k, up 145k on yesterday. Which is considerably less than the 200k per day Hancock claimed at the weekend. So at that rate, assuming they are working 7 days, it will be 1,015k per week and we would get to about 6m by mid-Feb. But presumably the rate will increase....
    This was already discussed earlier and the suggestion was it was due to the figure being for Sunday.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Yeah, lockdown ain't ending until Easter at the earliest.

    Pressure on the NHS is unlikely to peak until next month as cases surge far beyond London, a health service chief has claimed.

    The comments by Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, came as Times analysis showed that 80 per cent of local authorities in England had recorded their highest day of Covid-19 cases since the beginning of January.

    Mr Hopson told MPs on the health and social care select committee that the situation was incredibly serious, with infection rates rising really very rapidly in areas including the Midlands, northwest and southwest England as well as London, the southeast and east of England.

    He said: “That’s a particular worry because trusts in the Midlands and the north have got significant numbers of patients still in hospital from the second surge and in the southwest, because of its smaller bed base, we know it’s less able to absorb pressure than the other regions.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/covid-19-cases-unlikely-to-peak-for-weeks-jcxgttsws

    Do you have any evidence/source for that claim or is it just yet another hysterical hunch?

    For the record, you are saying lockdown will continue until 4 April.
    The mainstream press is screaming for a stricter, longer lockdown. Is this the moment they are finally disappointed?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,360
    Brom said:

    If we continue with the impressive speed of vaccinations I'd imagine some restrictions will be lifted at the start of March.

    Even at this level, which is nowhere near enough, you would still be vaccinating the equivalent of the adult population of Coventry every two days.

    Not that I'm saying Coventry should benefit from such favouritism....
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    TimT said:

    So running about a million a week, presuming a 7-day per week operation. Great!! Now let's get that up to 2m per week.
    145k in a day is pathetic, well behind where we need to be.

    No doubt the media will prefer to prattle on about bikes and tea-drinking blondes.
    If it stays like that Boris has a big problem with his party.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Uk cases by specimen date

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K population

    image
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Andy_JS said:
    LOL, Piers “Holiday in Antigua” Morgan.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,456

    TimT said:

    So running about a million a week, presuming a 7-day per week operation. Great!! Now let's get that up to 2m per week.
    145k in a day is pathetic, well behind where we need to be.

    No doubt the media will prefer to prattle on about bikes and tea-drinking blondes.
    On that note, I've had about as much negativity as I want to handle today. Sure, we want better, but pathetic it is not. Laters.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK local R

    image
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Vaccination rates for the four nations per million:

    Northern Ireland - 3958
    England - 2508
    Scotland - 2303
    Wales - 1683

    UK - 2494

    NI doing good numbers, England and Scotland not terrible and Wales, as usual, bringing up the rear. I really wonder what is going on in Wales, they don't even have the excuse of isolated populations given that Scotland seems to be moving at a fairly decent rate.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    kicorse said:

    I'm no fan of Johnson, but I am at least thankful that we escaped PM Osborne. Okay, he's no Trump, but he always struck me as the most infantile and ideologically dangerous member of Cameron's cabinet.

    Yes, Pence and McConnell deserve some credit for finally doing the right thing. They are not enemies of democracy, merely opponents of good governance.

    No, the failure (so far) of the insurrection is not strong evidence that the constitution did it's job. A handful of people behaving differently would have tipped the balance. And with four more years, which would probably have happened without COVID, Trump would have been in a position to tip that balance.

    This has been a lucky escape for democracy, not a show of its strength.

    And the absurdity of the last sentence. Any sane person of left or right, however much they dislike Corbyn, can only roll their eyes in disgust at that.

    Osborne revealed his true colours with his line about "sleeping off a life on benefits." A nasty, cheap and dishonest line demonising the poor from a man born into a life of extraordinary privilege.
    Wasn't massively keen on "chopped up in my fridge" either.
    That was just weird though (I mean, do you know anybody who would say something like that?), rather than being deliberately nasty for political purposes.
    Lurid and just so specific. Bit creepy. After the watershed (IIRC) but still. I'll watch a Tarantino if I want that sort of thing not a TV politics show.

    But yes, totally different from the toxic but shrewd soundbites in office from this most political of chancellors.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,360
    Andy_JS said:
    Surely, that should be " anythin' "?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Nigelb said:
    Sounds like the kind of argument that was made as the Weimar republic collapsed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK Case summary

    Today

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    Yesterday

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    edited January 2021
    Here we go. Chartwells have responded. It WAS them, but their argument is that this was for five days not ten, and they charged HMG £10.50, not £30


    https://twitter.com/Kate_M_Proctor/status/1349038139051028483?s=20


    So now, if their explanation is truthful, the question becomes: is this food acceptable, and just how much profit are they making, when they could have bought this, wholesale, for about 3 quid


    https://twitter.com/Anoosh_C/status/1349025148486250502?s=20
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Nigelb said:
    That's just on the WHO borderline.....which makes you wonder if it was given a little help....
    In some ways its not bad news. I am a fully signed up member of the pharmacology industry has pulled an absolute blinder here and saved the world from the dreaded virus. If every vaccine worked you'd start to wonder how hard it actually was.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK Positivity

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  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    45533 cases
    Its rare for a Tuesday to be less than a Monday

    Unless yesterday, testers were switched to setting up the seven mega-vaccination centres? I don't WANT to be Donny Downer - but that might conceivably be a reason. Fingers crossed for tomorrow, eh?
    Entirely different set of chaps I think. Also, check the capacity and number of tests completed.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,993

    Talking of crap colour schemes on graphs and charts ComRes would like to enter the contest.

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1349023951826145280

    As others have replied to that Tweet - we need to know who these 'others' are that are nicking votes off everyone. Farage already?
    Patrick O'Flynn tweets that Reform are flagging up 2% unprompted in this.

    He adds yougov are going to start prompting for them.

    Just FYI

    Do you really think the Super Secret Scientist Controlling Cabal will allow them to do anything? The International Conspiracy won’t let them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK hospitals

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  • Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:
    Wow. That’s quite the story!
    It was only last May that the last recipient of a Civil War pension died. Her name was Irene Triplett and she was the daughter of a veteran who fought for both the North and South - having deserted the Confederacy in 1963 and joined the Union forces in 1864.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/irene-triplett-last-person-american-civil-war-pension-dies
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Nigelb said:
    Sounds like the kind of argument that was made as the Weimar republic collapsed.
    Its also untrue.

    Which republicans are threatening mass violence?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    Why the hell couldn't they use vouchers? It's a Tory government fgs.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK deaths

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Leon said:

    Here we go. Chartwells have responded. It WAS them, but their argument is that this was for five days not ten, and they charged HMG £10.50, not £30


    https://twitter.com/Kate_M_Proctor/status/1349038139051028483?s=20


    So now, if their explanation is truthful, the question becomes: is this food acceptable, and just how much profit are they making, when they could have bought this, wholesale, for about 3 quid


    https://twitter.com/Anoosh_C/status/1349025148486250502?s=20

    also this point -

    https://twitter.com/Kate_M_Proctor/status/1349041427544748033
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    More on the Chinese vaccine:

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1349047720334356481?s=20

    Somewhere between 35% and 62% effective.....WHO benchmark is 50%.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    I once shook the hand of a man who kissed the sister of Butch Cassidy
  • juniusjunius Posts: 73
    How does Priti Patel pronounce Dido Harding's name? Anyone know?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK R

    From case data

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    From hospitals data

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    geoffw said:

    Why the hell couldn't they use vouchers? It's a Tory government fgs.

    They did before. And no I don't understand the logic.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited January 2021
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT:

    isam said:
    Indeed. Extraordinarily bad use of colour scale.
    Min/Max - Red/Green with the mid-point as white. It's not unfair, just shows how badly the continent other than Denmark and (IMO) Italy are doing.
    Oh, come off it. I've see less deceptive Lib Dem bar charts. Using the same method of carefully choosing the scale and midpoint, one could equally produce a map of Covid deaths per capita in which the UK, Belgium and Italy are bright red islands in a sea of green.
    Still, helpful to see that Hunt has joined the ranks of the Covid nationalists despite his efforts to portray himself as a sensible alternative to the cocktail of incompetence, venality, and ideology that is the Tory party nowadays.
    This nationalism thing is a real blight isn't? Stops you seeing all sorts of things clearly.
    My nationalism seems more 'resilient' against making weedy boasts than yours.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Age related data

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  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Brom said:

    If we continue with the impressive speed of vaccinations I'd imagine some restrictions will be lifted at the start of March.

    The current rate is way too slow. Needs to be twice what it is.
  • Nigelb said:
    Sounds like the kind of argument that was made as the Weimar republic collapsed.
    To be honest I think it supports the argument that they should seek impeachment all the more. If that threat is real then any move to placate the rioters will be seen as a sign of weakness and an argument that such threats can win.
  • Ooh.

    Apple CEO Tim Cook joined CBS This Morning for an interview today, touching on the events that occurred at the US Capitol last Wednesday.

    Notably, CBS This Morning host Gayle King also teased that more of the interview will air tomorrow, as Apple is expected to make a “ big announcement” of some sort – but it’s “not a product.”


    Cook said that he thinks it’s “key” for people to be held accountable for what happened at the US Capitol last week:

    “I think it’s key that people be held accountable for it. This is not something that should skate. This is something we’ve got to be very serious about, and understand, and then we need to move forward.”

    When asked specifically about whether Trump should be held accountable for the violence, the Apple CEO indicated that he believes no one is above the law:

    “I think no one is above the law. That’s the great thing about our country, we’re a rule of law country. I think everyone who had a part in it needs to be held accountable. I don’t think we should let it go. I think holding people accountable is important.”

    CBS This Morning will have a full interview with Tim Cook tomorrow, King says. King didn’t allude to what Apple’s “big announcement” could be, but she did clarify that it’s “not a new product.”


    https://9to5mac.com/2021/01/12/apple-ceo-tim-cook-joins-cbs-this-morning-ahead-of-big-announcement-coming/
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:
    Wow. That’s quite the story!
    It was only last May that the last recipient of a Civil War pension died. Her name was Irene Triplett and she was the daughter of a veteran who fought for both the North and South - having deserted the Confederacy in 1963 and joined the Union forces in 1864.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/irene-triplett-last-person-american-civil-war-pension-dies
    The more impressive feat was her ability to travel in time.
  • Nigelb said:
    Sounds like the kind of argument that was made as the Weimar republic collapsed.
    To be honest I think it supports the argument that they should seek impeachment all the more. If that threat is real then any move to placate the rioters will be seen as a sign of weakness and an argument that such threats can win.
    Spot on
  • Nigelb said:
    In London the infection rate is 1 in 30, not sure what it is over there, but with over four hundred of them in the house, several testing positive is surely expected regardless of a coup lockdown? If it is was twenty or so it becomes more noticeable.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    kicorse said:

    I'm no fan of Johnson, but I am at least thankful that we escaped PM Osborne. Okay, he's no Trump, but he always struck me as the most infantile and ideologically dangerous member of Cameron's cabinet.

    Yes, Pence and McConnell deserve some credit for finally doing the right thing. They are not enemies of democracy, merely opponents of good governance.

    No, the failure (so far) of the insurrection is not strong evidence that the constitution did it's job. A handful of people behaving differently would have tipped the balance. And with four more years, which would probably have happened without COVID, Trump would have been in a position to tip that balance.

    This has been a lucky escape for democracy, not a show of its strength.

    And the absurdity of the last sentence. Any sane person of left or right, however much they dislike Corbyn, can only roll their eyes in disgust at that.

    Osborne revealed his true colours with his line about "sleeping off a life on benefits." A nasty, cheap and dishonest line demonising the poor from a man born into a life of extraordinary privilege.
    Wasn't massively keen on "chopped up in my fridge" either.
    That was just weird though (I mean, do you know anybody who would say something like that?), rather than being deliberately nasty for political purposes.
    It was an extremely odd choice of words - I can't imagine how it could be used appropriately. Even if it were about someone who had murdered a member of ones family it would seem a deranged thing to say
    And I sense - but obviously can't prove - that his victim being a woman was key.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    geoffw said:

    Why the hell couldn't they use vouchers? It's a Tory government fgs.

    It is a well known stereotype to suggest that the undeserving poor would exchange their vouchers for beer and fags.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    edited January 2021
    isam said:

    On my bike ride earlier I had a, possibly Polly Toynbee-esque lot of nothingness thought. I had reckoned that a post Covid world would be more socially democratic, a la the end of WW2. Now I think the opposite - people will want to be able to do what they want after being trapped so long, and the economic crisis will make society even more chien-manger-chien than before.

    So probably somewhere between the two, but people will see it through their bias and both will claim victory, you're welcome.

    Polly Toynbee would be having that thought whilst on a flight to her inherited Italian villa, whilst writing an article about poverty and how we all have to be green.

    I've just been out on the bike for a few miles - fairly busy with children's playgrounds noticeably operating again.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    If we continue with the impressive speed of vaccinations I'd imagine some restrictions will be lifted at the start of March.

    The current rate is way too slow. Needs to be twice what it is.
    If you look at the rate of increase day by day, or week by week and expect it to grow to levels where targets are hit (as I do), then we're well on track for around 13m by Feb 15th. It was never expected that we would vaccinate 2m in the first week of the year but the rolling stone is well in motion.
    This is a gradual scaling up operation and the UK is so far doing an impressive job.
  • I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Talking of crap colour schemes on graphs and charts ComRes would like to enter the contest.

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1349023951826145280

    As others have replied to that Tweet - we need to know who these 'others' are that are nicking votes off everyone. Farage already?
    Patrick O'Flynn tweets that Reform are flagging up 2% unprompted in this.

    He adds yougov are going to start prompting for them.

    Just FYI

    Do you really think the Super Secret Scientist Controlling Cabal will allow them to do anything? The International Conspiracy won’t let them.
    No Andy, I think its that they are not at all popular at the moment, and won't be for a long time, if ever. And that's because people largely support these lockdowns now.

    We know, however, that it only takes a few percentage points to make an awful lot of tory MPs very nervous. As they should be, in marginal constituencies.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    Priti wasn’t taking supplementary questions, was she? Lots of words, but few answers, especially if they required a bit of thought.
  • geoffw said:

    Why the hell couldn't they use vouchers? It's a Tory government fgs.

    Because bellend Tory MPs like Ben Bradley kept on banging on that the vouchers would be used to buy drugs and hookers.

    So it would be better to send the food direct.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Leon said:

    Here we go. Chartwells have responded. It WAS them, but their argument is that this was for five days not ten, and they charged HMG £10.50, not £30

    So now, if their explanation is truthful, the question becomes: is this food acceptable, and just how much profit are they making, when they could have bought this, wholesale, for about 3 quid

    There are too many low-margin businesses that operate on the intersection between government and the private sector whose only real skill seems to be in bidding for public money.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    So running about a million a week, presuming a 7-day per week operation. Great!! Now let's get that up to 2m per week.
    145k in a day is pathetic, well behind where we need to be.

    No doubt the media will prefer to prattle on about bikes and tea-drinking blondes.
    On that note, I've had about as much negativity as I want to handle today. Sure, we want better, but pathetic it is not. Laters.
    It's half of what we need, and every day we undershoot the required rate goes up. Think cricket, an ODI or T20...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited January 2021

    geoffw said:

    Why the hell couldn't they use vouchers? It's a Tory government fgs.

    It is a well known stereotype to suggest that the undeserving poor would exchange their vouchers for beer and fags.
    In the last time the FSM row erupted, the Tory MPs saiud they []edit: the poor] would spend it on cocaine and whores. Hence no cash or vouchers, just boxes (and nice contracts to hand out, too).
  • Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    My Great Grandmother died when I was 4. I do just about remember her. She always said that her grandfather had been a boot boy for the Duke of Wellington. No idea if it was true but the maths worked.
  • I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    Betfairs London mayoral market stands if its in 2021, void if next year. Each company will have their own rules though.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    My father (94) finally got his vaccination today. Very efficiently done apparently. Surprised it was the Pfizer one.

    On another note, particularly if @Foxy is here, I would be interested in any feedback on something else. I became very hoarse just before Christmas, without any other symptoms. My wife (a Doctor, but a pathologist and now working in drug safety so not her expertise) suggested leaving for a couple of weeks to see if it cleared up. It didn't. I saw the GP Friday evening who arranged a hospital appointment. On Monday I got a telephone appointment for today which was pretty impressive. I spoke to an ENT surgeon an hour ago who is going to organise an urgent hospital visit for me. His first reaction from my description and my voice was vocal cord paralysis. Not something my wife thought of. Don't like what I read about it, although he seemed pretty chipper about it. Obviously I am worried.

    Sorry to hear that. Are you still at work and holding meetings? I have had a sore throat on and off for the past few months and realised that it is because I am sitting here shouting at zoom/teams meetings all day.

    IANAD, obvs!
    I'm retired. However I am (normally) very loud and talk a lot (I'm guessing that comes as no surprise). My first concern was cancer (as it appeared was my GPs concern), but it seems there are multitude of other equally horrible things it can be. I am of course ignoring the mild causes.
    Who was it who said that whenever they get a symptom, or even read about something in the papers, they are absolutely certain that they have the serious, inoperable version of it.

    Whereas the vast majority of conditions are, literally, nothing - nice post from @AlwaysSinging upthread which should be of some comfort.
    It was in Three men in a boat:

    I remember going to the British Museum one day to read up the treatment for some slight ailment of which I had a touch – hay fever, I fancy it was. I got down the book, and read all I came to read; and then, in an unthinking moment, I idly turned the leaves, and began to indolently study diseases, generally. I forget which was the first distemper I plunged into – some fearful, devastating scourge, I know – and, before I had glanced half down the list of “premonitory symptoms,” it was borne in upon me that I had fairly got it.

    I sat for awhile, frozen with horror; and then, in the listlessness of despair, I again turned over the pages. I came to typhoid fever – read the symptoms – discovered that I had typhoid fever, must have had it for months without knowing it – wondered what else I had got; turned up St. Vitus’s Dance – found, as I expected, that I had that too, – began to get interested in my case, and determined to sift it to the bottom, and so started alphabetically – read up ague, and learnt that I was sickening for it, and that the acute stage would commence in about another fortnight. Bright’s disease, I was relieved to find, I had only in a modified form, and, so far as that was concerned, I might live for years. Cholera I had, with severe complications; and diphtheria I seemed to have been born with. I plodded conscientiously through the twenty-six letters, and the only malady I could conclude I had not got was housemaid’s knee.

    I felt rather hurt about this at first; it seemed somehow to be a sort of slight. Why hadn’t I got housemaid’s knee? Why this invidious reservation? After a while, however, less grasping feelings prevailed. I reflected that I had every other known malady in the pharmacology, and I grew less selfish, and determined to do without housemaid’s knee. Gout, in its most malignant stage, it would appear, had seized me without my being aware of it; and zymosis I had evidently been suffering with from boyhood. There were no more diseases after zymosis, so I concluded there was nothing else the matter with me.
    Very good.

    What do they say these days? A small amount of time googling symptoms on google inevitably ends up with a diagnosis of Leukemia.

    A doctor once told me to google only diagnoses not symptoms. Advice I have taken since that point.

    A friend told meanwhile me his doctor had told him he was suffering from google-induced hypertension...
    The only time I ever googled a symptom it gave sixteen possible causes, the first fifteen of which you really didn't want it to be. The sixteenth suggested I may have eaten too much beetroot.

    You cannot imagine the relief.
    You need to watch the black pudding intake too... Can cause worries...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Nigelb said:
    A coward's or an idiot's.

    But it is only one step further along than the mainstream Republican argument of 'Don't impeach him, because punishing him will be divisive and it is time to heal', so in logic there's probably many in Congress who agree.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    People are getting a little testy about the Corbyn comparison, not unreasonably to some extent - Trump does operate on a level not generally seen over here. And yet, and yet ... if you gave Corbyn the kind of political power and media reach Trump had, is it really that hard to imagine him imposing his loony left agenda on the country with an army of hundreds of thousands of, er, 'passionate' Momentumites cheering his every word at boisterous rallies? He's easy to laugh at now that Boris has annihilated him, but his defeat in the UK was just as essential as Trump's in the US.

    The moral courage shown by Shadow Cabinet members like Starmer who supported him uncritically for years is unimpressive, to say the least.

    I can tell when you wish to sound serious but don't believe what you're writing. It's just that bit too studied.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited January 2021
    MattW said:

    isam said:

    On my bike ride earlier I had a, possibly Polly Toynbee-esque lot of nothingness thought. I had reckoned that a post Covid world would be more socially democratic, a la the end of WW2. Now I think the opposite - people will want to be able to do what they want after being trapped so long, and the economic crisis will make society even more chien-manger-chien than before.

    So probably somewhere between the two, but people will see it through their bias and both will claim victory, you're welcome.

    Polly Toynbee would be having that thought whilst on a flight to her inherited Italian villa, whilst writing an article about poverty and how we all have to be green.

    I've just been out on the bike for a few miles - fairly busy with children's playgrounds noticeably operating again.
    Many previous generations of social democratic politicians had holiday villas. Clement Attlee was a comfortably off pubic schoolboy who could quite easily have lived a life of quiet, privileged comfort. It didn't stop him changing Britain for the better.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    More on the Chinese vaccine:

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1349047720334356481?s=20

    Somewhere between 35% and 62% effective.....WHO benchmark is 50%.

    From those numbers it looks like a dud.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    My father (94) finally got his vaccination today. Very efficiently done apparently. Surprised it was the Pfizer one.

    On another note, particularly if @Foxy is here, I would be interested in any feedback on something else. I became very hoarse just before Christmas, without any other symptoms. My wife (a Doctor, but a pathologist and now working in drug safety so not her expertise) suggested leaving for a couple of weeks to see if it cleared up. It didn't. I saw the GP Friday evening who arranged a hospital appointment. On Monday I got a telephone appointment for today which was pretty impressive. I spoke to an ENT surgeon an hour ago who is going to organise an urgent hospital visit for me. His first reaction from my description and my voice was vocal cord paralysis. Not something my wife thought of. Don't like what I read about it, although he seemed pretty chipper about it. Obviously I am worried.

    Sorry to hear that. Are you still at work and holding meetings? I have had a sore throat on and off for the past few months and realised that it is because I am sitting here shouting at zoom/teams meetings all day.

    IANAD, obvs!
    I'm retired. However I am (normally) very loud and talk a lot (I'm guessing that comes as no surprise). My first concern was cancer (as it appeared was my GPs concern), but it seems there are multitude of other equally horrible things it can be. I am of course ignoring the mild causes.
    Who was it who said that whenever they get a symptom, or even read about something in the papers, they are absolutely certain that they have the serious, inoperable version of it.

    Whereas the vast majority of conditions are, literally, nothing - nice post from @AlwaysSinging upthread which should be of some comfort.
    It was in Three men in a boat:

    I remember going to the British Museum one day to read up the treatment for some slight ailment of which I had a touch – hay fever, I fancy it was. I got down the book, and read all I came to read; and then, in an unthinking moment, I idly turned the leaves, and began to indolently study diseases, generally. I forget which was the first distemper I plunged into – some fearful, devastating scourge, I know – and, before I had glanced half down the list of “premonitory symptoms,” it was borne in upon me that I had fairly got it.

    I sat for awhile, frozen with horror; and then, in the listlessness of despair, I again turned over the pages. I came to typhoid fever – read the symptoms – discovered that I had typhoid fever, must have had it for months without knowing it – wondered what else I had got; turned up St. Vitus’s Dance – found, as I expected, that I had that too, – began to get interested in my case, and determined to sift it to the bottom, and so started alphabetically – read up ague, and learnt that I was sickening for it, and that the acute stage would commence in about another fortnight. Bright’s disease, I was relieved to find, I had only in a modified form, and, so far as that was concerned, I might live for years. Cholera I had, with severe complications; and diphtheria I seemed to have been born with. I plodded conscientiously through the twenty-six letters, and the only malady I could conclude I had not got was housemaid’s knee.

    I felt rather hurt about this at first; it seemed somehow to be a sort of slight. Why hadn’t I got housemaid’s knee? Why this invidious reservation? After a while, however, less grasping feelings prevailed. I reflected that I had every other known malady in the pharmacology, and I grew less selfish, and determined to do without housemaid’s knee. Gout, in its most malignant stage, it would appear, had seized me without my being aware of it; and zymosis I had evidently been suffering with from boyhood. There were no more diseases after zymosis, so I concluded there was nothing else the matter with me.
    Very good.

    What do they say these days? A small amount of time googling symptoms on google inevitably ends up with a diagnosis of Leukemia.

    A doctor once told me to google only diagnoses not symptoms. Advice I have taken since that point.

    A friend told meanwhile me his doctor had told him he was suffering from google-induced hypertension...
    The only time I ever googled a symptom it gave sixteen possible causes, the first fifteen of which you really didn't want it to be. The sixteenth suggested I may have eaten too much beetroot.

    You cannot imagine the relief.
    I've had a worried moment looking into the toilet bowl before remembering the previous evening's beetroot feast.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    More on the Chinese vaccine:

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1349047720334356481?s=20

    Somewhere between 35% and 62% effective.....WHO benchmark is 50%.

    From those numbers it looks like a dud.
    Indeed it does, the GSK/Sanofi vaccine had a similar efficacy and it was taken back to the drawing board.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,270
    edited January 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:
    Wow. That’s quite the story!
    It was only last May that the last recipient of a Civil War pension died. Her name was Irene Triplett and she was the daughter of a veteran who fought for both the North and South - having deserted the Confederacy in 1963 and joined the Union forces in 1864.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/irene-triplett-last-person-american-civil-war-pension-dies
    The more impressive feat was her ability to travel in time.
    Why do you say that?

    Edit - forget it just saw the typo :)
  • FossFoss Posts: 992

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    My father (94) finally got his vaccination today. Very efficiently done apparently. Surprised it was the Pfizer one.

    On another note, particularly if @Foxy is here, I would be interested in any feedback on something else. I became very hoarse just before Christmas, without any other symptoms. My wife (a Doctor, but a pathologist and now working in drug safety so not her expertise) suggested leaving for a couple of weeks to see if it cleared up. It didn't. I saw the GP Friday evening who arranged a hospital appointment. On Monday I got a telephone appointment for today which was pretty impressive. I spoke to an ENT surgeon an hour ago who is going to organise an urgent hospital visit for me. His first reaction from my description and my voice was vocal cord paralysis. Not something my wife thought of. Don't like what I read about it, although he seemed pretty chipper about it. Obviously I am worried.

    Sorry to hear that. Are you still at work and holding meetings? I have had a sore throat on and off for the past few months and realised that it is because I am sitting here shouting at zoom/teams meetings all day.

    IANAD, obvs!
    I'm retired. However I am (normally) very loud and talk a lot (I'm guessing that comes as no surprise). My first concern was cancer (as it appeared was my GPs concern), but it seems there are multitude of other equally horrible things it can be. I am of course ignoring the mild causes.
    Who was it who said that whenever they get a symptom, or even read about something in the papers, they are absolutely certain that they have the serious, inoperable version of it.

    Whereas the vast majority of conditions are, literally, nothing - nice post from @AlwaysSinging upthread which should be of some comfort.
    It was in Three men in a boat:

    I remember going to the British Museum one day to read up the treatment for some slight ailment of which I had a touch – hay fever, I fancy it was. I got down the book, and read all I came to read; and then, in an unthinking moment, I idly turned the leaves, and began to indolently study diseases, generally. I forget which was the first distemper I plunged into – some fearful, devastating scourge, I know – and, before I had glanced half down the list of “premonitory symptoms,” it was borne in upon me that I had fairly got it.

    I sat for awhile, frozen with horror; and then, in the listlessness of despair, I again turned over the pages. I came to typhoid fever – read the symptoms – discovered that I had typhoid fever, must have had it for months without knowing it – wondered what else I had got; turned up St. Vitus’s Dance – found, as I expected, that I had that too, – began to get interested in my case, and determined to sift it to the bottom, and so started alphabetically – read up ague, and learnt that I was sickening for it, and that the acute stage would commence in about another fortnight. Bright’s disease, I was relieved to find, I had only in a modified form, and, so far as that was concerned, I might live for years. Cholera I had, with severe complications; and diphtheria I seemed to have been born with. I plodded conscientiously through the twenty-six letters, and the only malady I could conclude I had not got was housemaid’s knee.

    I felt rather hurt about this at first; it seemed somehow to be a sort of slight. Why hadn’t I got housemaid’s knee? Why this invidious reservation? After a while, however, less grasping feelings prevailed. I reflected that I had every other known malady in the pharmacology, and I grew less selfish, and determined to do without housemaid’s knee. Gout, in its most malignant stage, it would appear, had seized me without my being aware of it; and zymosis I had evidently been suffering with from boyhood. There were no more diseases after zymosis, so I concluded there was nothing else the matter with me.
    Very good.

    What do they say these days? A small amount of time googling symptoms on google inevitably ends up with a diagnosis of Leukemia.

    A doctor once told me to google only diagnoses not symptoms. Advice I have taken since that point.

    A friend told meanwhile me his doctor had told him he was suffering from google-induced hypertension...
    The only time I ever googled a symptom it gave sixteen possible causes, the first fifteen of which you really didn't want it to be. The sixteenth suggested I may have eaten too much beetroot.

    You cannot imagine the relief.
    You need to watch the black pudding intake too... Can cause worries...
    Ditto stout.
  • geoffw said:

    Why the hell couldn't they use vouchers? It's a Tory government fgs.

    It is a well known stereotype to suggest that the undeserving poor would exchange their vouchers for beer and fags.
    Worse, crack dens and brothels!

    https://tinyurl.com/yygep2rf
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:
    Wow. That’s quite the story!
    It was only last May that the last recipient of a Civil War pension died. Her name was Irene Triplett and she was the daughter of a veteran who fought for both the North and South - having deserted the Confederacy in 1963 and joined the Union forces in 1864.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/irene-triplett-last-person-american-civil-war-pension-dies
    The more impressive feat was her ability to travel in time.
    There was a thing back in the days before state benefits, where young ladies would mary extremely ancient veterans, so that they would get the war widows pension when he (the ancient veteran) died.

    That's why there were quite a number of widows of Civil War veterans around so long after the war.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    Seems pretty inevitable unfortunately.
  • I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    Betfairs London mayoral market stands if its in 2021, void if next year. Each company will have their own rules though.
    Thank you but would it influence actual betting as the political scene in the Autumn could be very different to May
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    My Great Grandmother died when I was 4. I do just about remember her. She always said that her grandfather had been a boot boy for the Duke of Wellington. No idea if it was true but the maths worked.
    Wellington boot boy ?
    I think she was pulling your...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Here we go. Chartwells have responded. It WAS them, but their argument is that this was for five days not ten, and they charged HMG £10.50, not £30


    https://twitter.com/Kate_M_Proctor/status/1349038139051028483?s=20


    So now, if their explanation is truthful, the question becomes: is this food acceptable, and just how much profit are they making, when they could have bought this, wholesale, for about 3 quid


    https://twitter.com/Anoosh_C/status/1349025148486250502?s=20

    also this point -

    https://twitter.com/Kate_M_Proctor/status/1349041427544748033
    Yes, and even if we accept that explanation, I struggle to see how you could make ten nutritious, filling lunches for that woman's TWO hungry children from that ridiculous "hamper". A shared tin of beans on toast with an apple day one. Pasta with, er.... cheese and half a tomato day two? After that.... dry bread with an old banana?

    They are clearly making a big fat profit by gouging the government, and the rest of us, during a pandemic, and by under-feeding poor kids. Yuk

    And now, to the shops, in a gasmask.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171

    George Osborne's comments clearly haven't dated very well. America has a leader who attempted a coup one week ago which killed five people, still strutting around and menacing more danger, essentially because both his party and the Democrats are frightened of civil war. Not only has it been founding wanting so far, but America's democracy hasn't been in this much danger for 150 years.

    Only 200 hours left of Trump in office.
  • geoffw said:

    Why the hell couldn't they use vouchers? It's a Tory government fgs.

    It is not a conservative, pro business, low red tape govt. It is a bluekip, kleptocratic govt that is deliberately creating red tape for business and govt spending so its mates can profiteer. Constantly putting pointless middlemen into processes that would be cheaper for the taxpayer and work more smoothly without them.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    My Great Grandmother died when I was 4. I do just about remember her. She always said that her grandfather had been a boot boy for the Duke of Wellington. No idea if it was true but the maths worked.
    Wellington boot boy ?
    I think she was pulling your...
    Oh put a sock in it
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    junius said:

    How does Priti Patel pronounce Dido Harding's name? Anyone know?

    Dildo Hard In

    That's what you are hoping!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:
    Wow. That’s quite the story!
    It was only last May that the last recipient of a Civil War pension died. Her name was Irene Triplett and she was the daughter of a veteran who fought for both the North and South - having deserted the Confederacy in 1963 and joined the Union forces in 1864.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/irene-triplett-last-person-american-civil-war-pension-dies
    The more impressive feat was her ability to travel in time.
    Why do you say that?

    Edit - forget it just saw the typo :)
    I was being a pedantic sod!

    Her name was Irene Triplett and she was the daughter of a veteran who fought for both the North and South - having deserted the Confederacy in 1963 and joined the Union forces in 1864.
  • Andy_JS said:

    George Osborne's comments clearly haven't dated very well. America has a leader who attempted a coup one week ago which killed five people, still strutting around and menacing more danger, essentially because both his party and the Democrats are frightened of civil war. Not only has it been founding wanting so far, but America's democracy hasn't been in this much danger for 150 years.

    Only 200 hours left of Trump in office.
    How much many plates can the toddler break in that time, though.
  • I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    They should go ahead as 100% postal.
    Would that not give the conservatives quite an advantage though
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    geoffw said:

    Why the hell couldn't they use vouchers? It's a Tory government fgs.

    It is a well known stereotype to suggest that the undeserving poor would exchange their vouchers for beer and fags.
    Worse, crack dens and brothels!

    https://tinyurl.com/yygep2rf
    Indeed. Ben Bradley is the true voice of reason.
  • Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    Famously (well reasonably well known-ly) the tenth President, John Tyler (1841-45) still has one living grandson.

    It would not be totally shocking if you could get back to Jesus/Caesar times in not much more than 30 generations via some lines, even though the average would be closer to 100, as fathers in their 60s and 70s have always been unusual but not THAT unusual (although you'd obviously need that pattern to repeat itself over a long period of time).

    In this case, I wonder how prevalent this was? From the story, it sounds as if there was something of a loophole in Civil War pensions if very elderly veterans could effectively do a favour to a young neighbour with a deathbed marriage (it sounds as if there was nothing untoward in this case - just a Depression-era scam).

    It does put an interesting perspective on historical events to think in these terms. I'm not old, but it is starting to ponder things like the fact that I was born closer to the end of the Second World War than to the invention of the iPhone, or that there were a fair number of World War One veterans around when I was a kid (they were retired but many weren't ridiculously elderly), whereas there is almost zero chance of a teenager now having met one.
  • I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    Betfairs London mayoral market stands if its in 2021, void if next year. Each company will have their own rules though.
    Thank you but would it influence actual betting as the political scene in the Autumn could be very different to May
    Yes, in theory it would. Although the main market is London mayor, which Sadiq will win as he long as he stands and Brian Rose will almost certainly not win, whether in May or the Autumn. Opposing Rose is a very strong bet.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528


    Most working age people who receive benefits are in work. Many more are disabled. To slander them as workshy layabouts is disgusting.

    Which is why Osborne cut benefits for the well-off, including child benefit for people earning £100K+. Labour opposed that. It is also why he increased benefits for the disabled. It is also why he addressed the disgraceful anomaly that lower-paid workers, without adequate housing for their families, were subsidising older people with spare rooms they no longer needed.

    The whole welfare system inherited from Brown was a complete mess - wasteful, poorly-targeted, very expensive, and very unfair. It sounds as though you wanted to keep it that way.
    Equalised the pension age for women as well which was a sop to working age women for votes under Labour and then tried again by Jez.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    Betfairs London mayoral market stands if its in 2021, void if next year. Each company will have their own rules though.
    Thank you but would it influence actual betting as the political scene in the Autumn could be very different to May
    Yes, in theory it would. Although the main market is London mayor, which Sadiq will win as he long as he stands and Brian Rose will almost certainly not win, whether in May or the Autumn. Opposing Rose is a very strong bet.
    Maybe, but you’d definitely prefer your 1/10 bets to pay out in three months’ time, rather than nine months’ time!
  • Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    Back in 2003/4 I attended the birthday party of a 104 year old. She told me she remembered her grandfather, a sailor, telling her about taking supplies to the troops in the Crimean War. That took my breath away,
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    geoffw said:

    Why the hell couldn't they use vouchers? It's a Tory government fgs.

    Because bellend Tory MPs like Ben Bradley kept on banging on that the vouchers would be used to buy drugs and hookers.

    So it would be better to send the food direct.
    Drug dealers and Brasses take vouchers now?!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    I am not into betting but does this have an effect on betting

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1349048385702158344?s=19

    They should go ahead as 100% postal.
    Would that not give the conservatives quite an advantage though
    That is a good question. Perhaps it would drive up turnout overall and benefit Labour?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited January 2021


    Most working age people who receive benefits are in work. Many more are disabled. To slander them as workshy layabouts is disgusting.

    Which is why Osborne cut benefits for the well-off, including child benefit for people earning £100K+. Labour opposed that. It is also why he increased benefits for the disabled. It is also why he addressed the disgraceful anomaly that lower-paid workers, without adequate housing for their families, were subsidising older people with spare rooms they no longer needed.

    The whole welfare system inherited from Brown was a complete mess - wasteful, poorly-targeted, very expensive, and very unfair. It sounds as though you wanted to keep it that way.
    Cameron did nothing to remedy the unfairness of ATOS's role, for instance, though. In fact both May and Cameron increased unnecessary sanctions and unnecessary suffering, in the area of welfare, leading in turn to many other effects, like higher homelessness, and larger numbers of children in absolute poverty. The record on welfare is probably the single most obvious black mark against the administrations of the last 10 years.

    One of the only things I could say for Johnson and Cummings is that they have seemed to show some awareness of this.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:
    Astonishing.
    Love things like this. Makes you wonder how few people you would need to have to get back to someone who met say Julius Caesar (as in two gets us to the Civil war, so 1865), did the Civil War chap meet an aged 90 year old, who when young had met an aged 90 year old etc...
    We'll never know of course, but fun to imagine.
    My Great Grandmother died when I was 4. I do just about remember her. She always said that her grandfather had been a boot boy for the Duke of Wellington. No idea if it was true but the maths worked.
    Wellington boot boy ?
    I think she was pulling your...
    My great uncle claims to have been the Earl of Sandwich's toastmaster, funnily enough.
This discussion has been closed.