Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

George Osborne argues that the way Trump’s been constrained shows that democracy is working – politi

1356710

Comments

  • Don't worry, trans info isn't the website you think it is.

    In a letter sent to the UK Government’s cabinet office, the Road Haulage Association has said that Northern Ireland’s supply chain could totally collapse in just a few days from now.

    https://trans.info/en/hauliers-say-northern-ireland-s-supply-chain-could-collapse-within-days-217181

    Don't worry. I'm sure @Philip_Thompson will agree that this is simply Boris keeping his promise on there being no border in the Irish Sea and that this is exactly what the Northern Irish people want.
    No I won't.

    But I will say that if the NI voters want to end the Protocol they should vote that way at the Assembly elections. Choice is theirs.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    What do people think vaccine takeup is like ?
    I reckon it'll be into the nineties personally.

    I think you`ll be disappointed. 75% tops.
    Sadly agree, Stocky. But 75% should be enough. I really worry about France, Pakistan and other vaccine-sceptic countries.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249

    MaxPB said:

    FPT:

    isam said:
    Indeed. Extraordinarily bad use of colour scale.
    Min/Max - Red/Green with the mid-point as white. It's not unfair, just shows how badly the continent other than Denmark and (IMO) Italy are doing.
    Oh, come off it. I've see less deceptive Lib Dem bar charts. Using the same method of carefully choosing the scale and midpoint, one could equally produce a map of Covid deaths per capita in which the UK, Belgium and Italy are bright red islands in a sea of green.
    It is not in any way deceptive. It is a perfectly way of displaying a range of data - in this case vaccinations.

    You would use exactly the same system in any number of different disciplines - indeed I do for greyscale plots for geophysical surveys. Or for population concentrations. Or pretty much anything.
    As has been mentioned, the UK is a very different colour to the others only because Israel has been omitted. If Israel were included, the UK would be a similar shade of red to the rest of Europe using this scale.

    Do you deliberately omit data from your plots and carefully chose a colour scale specifically in order to artificially highlight a particular point? I would hope not.

    Edit: Anyway, the colour scale is stupid for other reasons. Aside from the colour blindness issue, a two-colour scale like this is more suited to data that varies about zero, with red for negative and green for positive. It makes little sense to use it for data which has only positive values.
    It's a map of Europe. Israel isn't in Europe. No non European countries are coloured in, if they were I would agree with you but they're not. So it is simply showing the genuine Min/Max scale for Europe.

    Should the UK only be compared with Europe? Probably not. I prefer global comparisons. I think people are too obsessed with just Europe which isn't healthy. But that's another story.
    Israel is included on the map. No other country for which we have data is included on the map and not coloured accordingly. It is quite obvious to any rational thinker why the colouring for Israel has been omitted despite its presence on the map.
    This really is the most ridiculous argument ever.

    The UK is doing really well on vaccines. Let's be happy about that, without gloating at failures elsewhere, because we are in deep shit in almost every other aspect, and there's a long way to go.
  • Sandpit said:

    Actual vaccine stats, with no misleading colours.

    UK is genuinely head and shoulders above every G20 and EU27 country.
    In vaccines/population, only Israel, UAE and Bahrain are ahead - two small countries and one tiny one

    In absolute vaccine numbers, only USA and China are ahead. 9% of all vaccines administered worldwide have been in the UK.

    It’s THAT good.



    There you go. No need to resort to deceptively coloured maps. It'll be interesting to see how vaccination progresses in all countries, and, hopefully, starts to have an effect on infections and hospitalisations.
  • You start with a bit of light threatening and before you know it...

    https://twitter.com/jbendery/status/1349006180740452354?s=20
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    Sandpit said:

    Actual vaccine stats, with no misleading colours.

    UK is genuinely head and shoulders above every G20 and EU27 country.
    In vaccines/population, only Israel, UAE and Bahrain are ahead - two small countries and one tiny one

    In absolute vaccine numbers, only USA and China are ahead. 9% of all vaccines administered worldwide have been in the UK.

    It’s THAT good.



    This is a better way of presenting the info IMO.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2021
    TimT said:

    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    What do people think vaccine takeup is like ?
    I reckon it'll be into the nineties personally.

    I think you`ll be disappointed. 75% tops.
    Sadly agree, Stocky. But 75% should be enough. I really worry about France, Pakistan and other vaccine-sceptic countries.
    And of course France have put a load of red tape around getting your vaccine, with an unnecessary trip to the doctors first etc....way to get that takeup rate driven up is to make it as easy as possible, while stick of no froeign travel etc without it.

    Or you can go the New York route and require ridiculous amount of online questions to.be answered before you can book a slot.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    You start with a bit of light threatening and before you know it...

    https://twitter.com/jbendery/status/1349006180740452354?s=20

    I bet he'll be popular.
  • Leon said:


    The UK is doing really well on vaccines. Let's be happy about that, without gloating at failures elsewhere, because we are in deep shit in almost every other aspect, and there's a long way to go.

    You seem strangely measured and even handed today, everything ok?
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,346
    rkrkrk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Actual vaccine stats, with no misleading colours.

    UK is genuinely head and shoulders above every G20 and EU27 country.
    In vaccines/population, only Israel, UAE and Bahrain are ahead - two small countries and one tiny one

    In absolute vaccine numbers, only USA and China are ahead. 9% of all vaccines administered worldwide have been in the UK.

    It’s THAT good.



    This is a better way of presenting the info IMO.
    The gap between us and the rest of the EU will only get wider over the coming weeks
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,257
    TimT said:

    felix said:

    In Spain - only registered nurses are allowed to give the jabs and thet are holding doses back to give the 2 injections. Meanwhile the figures are rising relentlessly and it is unlikely that anyone under 65 will receive anything possibly before the summer. I have to say the EU has not covered itself in glory on this one - and there seems no real sense of urgency. Quite bizarre.

    But the EU as a whole overtook the UK yesterday in total number of jabs given, so that's something ...
    Some Brexiteers were happy to compare EU-27 exports to UK against UK exports to EU-27 to argue that the EU had more to lose from no deal than the UK, so I'm sure they'd also admit that the EU is better than us on vaccinations :wink:
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Pulpstar said:

    What do people think vaccine takeup is like ?
    I reckon it'll be into the nineties personally.

    Let's hope. The latest surveys on the vaccines are looking good with 85% saying they will take it. I expect that number to rise as well over the next few weeks as millions more people get it without incident.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545
    isam said:
    Very Lib Dem Bar Charts. "Winning the vaccination race here ..."

    You don't normally use red and green, unless green means a fully compliant end state has been reached. Normally you would use a graduated scale of one colour to represent different states of completion. As the data is sourced from ourworldindata.org, we could even use the map the same organisation helpfully provides, that presents the data perfectly well:




  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    This is why all my passwords are 'PineappleDoesNotBelongOnPizza'

    https://twitter.com/ObsoleteDogma/status/1348996141069819904

    Are you the SysAdmin at Parler?
    Please tell me that was one of the passwords?
    No, I believe not. But the style of security that you embrace is somewhat familiar.
    Don't worry my passwords are much more secure.

    A few years ago at work we did a security review and it turned out I was a potential risk.

    Because of the job I do have, I have access to all parts of the company software, systems, and servers and it was deemed me having a single login was a risk, so instead I was given 12 different logins and needed 12 different passwords which needed to be updated after every 30 days.

    And I cannot use any password that I've used in the last year.
    Ha ha. Been there, done that. Always a difficult job to thread the needle between security and workability.

    The fun bit is to work out which ones can be used to reset the other ones if necessary, and which ones you really need to remember ‘cos it will be a helpdesk call if you forget.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    TimT said:

    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    What do people think vaccine takeup is like ?
    I reckon it'll be into the nineties personally.

    I think you`ll be disappointed. 75% tops.
    Sadly agree, Stocky. But 75% should be enough. I really worry about France, Pakistan and other vaccine-sceptic countries.
    Sorry to be clear I'm talking about the UK, I think we'll be ~ 90% takeup.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,624

    rkrkrk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Actual vaccine stats, with no misleading colours.

    UK is genuinely head and shoulders above every G20 and EU27 country.
    In vaccines/population, only Israel, UAE and Bahrain are ahead - two small countries and one tiny one

    In absolute vaccine numbers, only USA and China are ahead. 9% of all vaccines administered worldwide have been in the UK.

    It’s THAT good.



    This is a better way of presenting the info IMO.
    The gap between us and the rest of the EU will only get wider over the coming weeks
    Hopefully it will close. With all of us on 10,000+ per million*, per day.

    *Which would be 670K a day for the UK and 830K for Germany
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,280
    "Boris Johnson blames Chinese for coronavirus pandemic telling world leaders it was triggered by 'demented' people who 'grind up the scales of a pangolin' in bid to become more 'potent'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9138117/Boris-Johnson-blames-Chinese-Covid-saying-pandemic-triggered-demented-traditional-medicine.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249

    Leon said:


    The UK is doing really well on vaccines. Let's be happy about that, without gloating at failures elsewhere, because we are in deep shit in almost every other aspect, and there's a long way to go.

    You seem strangely measured and even handed today, everything ok?
    Total lockdown can be oddly calming. I wonder if it is because I am doing HIIT every day for 30 minutes PLUS a long walk. I'm probably fitter than I have been in decades. Or maybe it is the Vitamin D supplements. Or the bowl of Xanax I have every morning.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    MaxPB said:

    FPT:

    isam said:
    Indeed. Extraordinarily bad use of colour scale.
    Min/Max - Red/Green with the mid-point as white. It's not unfair, just shows how badly the continent other than Denmark and (IMO) Italy are doing.
    Oh, come off it. I've see less deceptive Lib Dem bar charts. Using the same method of carefully choosing the scale and midpoint, one could equally produce a map of Covid deaths per capita in which the UK, Belgium and Italy are bright red islands in a sea of green.
    It is not in any way deceptive. It is a perfectly way of displaying a range of data - in this case vaccinations.

    You would use exactly the same system in any number of different disciplines - indeed I do for greyscale plots for geophysical surveys. Or for population concentrations. Or pretty much anything.
    As has been mentioned, the UK is a very different colour to the others only because Israel has been omitted. If Israel were included, the UK would be a similar shade of red to the rest of Europe using this scale.

    Do you deliberately omit data from your plots and carefully chose a colour scale specifically in order to artificially highlight a particular point? I would hope not.

    Edit: Anyway, the colour scale is stupid for other reasons. Aside from the colour blindness issue, a two-colour scale like this is more suited to data that varies about zero, with red for negative and green for positive. It makes little sense to use it for data which has only positive values.
    Last time I looked Israel wasn't in Europe. If I am doing a mag survey of a site I don't include the data from a site on the other side of the village.

    Stop looking for reasons to trash data just because you don't like it.
    I am honestly surprised that you can't see why this is a bad representation of the data.

    Also, you have my motives completely wrong. I am naturally very pleased that we are doing so well with vaccinations, not least because my partner is booked for one on Thursday. What gets my goat is deliberately deceptive data representation.
    I agree the colour is wrong. But the style of presentation - usually as a grey scale - is one I use practically every day of my life and is standard form for a whole range of scientific studies across huge numbers of disciplines.
    A greyscale (or any other single colour intensity scale) would be completely different, as you would be able to see, roughly, how much better the UK was doing from the intensity of the colour. Because of the two-colour scale used it is impossible to do that in this case without reference to the legend.

    The colour scale (and data coverage) has been chosen to create a categorical outcome for continuous data. It's very poor.

    Do you see the difference?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson blames Chinese for coronavirus pandemic telling world leaders it was triggered by 'demented' people who 'grind up the scales of a pangolin' in bid to become more 'potent'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9138117/Boris-Johnson-blames-Chinese-Covid-saying-pandemic-triggered-demented-traditional-medicine.html

    And the WHO says nobody point no fingers...when it comes to the virus that shall rename nameless of unspecified origin.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson blames Chinese for coronavirus pandemic telling world leaders it was triggered by 'demented' people who 'grind up the scales of a pangolin' in bid to become more 'potent'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9138117/Boris-Johnson-blames-Chinese-Covid-saying-pandemic-triggered-demented-traditional-medicine.html

    Well he's not wrong.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Priti goin to be hostin the Press Conference:

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1348963046388084736?s=20
  • I post this mainly to show that there are people out there who think Truthseeker1984 is a good twitter handle.

    https://twitter.com/Truthseeker1985/status/1348732322871468036?s=20

    Presumably more than one as, although his name is Truthseeker1984, the handle clearly wasn't available so he went for @Truthseeker1985.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    edited January 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    What do people think vaccine takeup is like ?
    I reckon it'll be into the nineties personally.

    I think you`ll be disappointed. 75% tops.
    Sadly agree, Stocky. But 75% should be enough. I really worry about France, Pakistan and other vaccine-sceptic countries.
    Sorry to be clear I'm talking about the UK, I think we'll be ~ 90% takeup.
    Yep, I think 75% will be about the ceiling for the UK. It is the 40-50% ceiling in France and perhaps even lower in other places that truly worries me for the globe getting back to normal-ish
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2021

    Priti goin to be hostin the Press Conference:

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1348963046388084736?s=20

    I think they picked the wrong day to send her out. She is going to get questions on lockdown+++++, Boris biking, the terrorist asylum seeker who got released and immediately killed the guys in the park, and the food boxes....hospital pass that is.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,087

    MaxPB said:

    FPT:

    isam said:
    Indeed. Extraordinarily bad use of colour scale.
    Min/Max - Red/Green with the mid-point as white. It's not unfair, just shows how badly the continent other than Denmark and (IMO) Italy are doing.
    Oh, come off it. I've see less deceptive Lib Dem bar charts. Using the same method of carefully choosing the scale and midpoint, one could equally produce a map of Covid deaths per capita in which the UK, Belgium and Italy are bright red islands in a sea of green.
    It is not in any way deceptive. It is a perfectly way of displaying a range of data - in this case vaccinations.

    You would use exactly the same system in any number of different disciplines - indeed I do for greyscale plots for geophysical surveys. Or for population concentrations. Or pretty much anything.
    It's a little misleading as we're at the start of a long roll-out process and everyone in Europe has vaccinated a negligible proportion of the public. So it has a scale running from "sod all" to "very few" and makes it appear that the UK is in a qualitatively completely different position to everyone else.

    Look - I applaud UK regulators for approving promptly, and the Government for acquiring doses including of a vaccine which is somewhat easier to roll-out. But it's very early days and we're in a situation where anything encouraging complacency is quite dangerous.
    I tend to agree with that last.

    Most of the EU has a 2-3 week approval lag plus whatever the bureaucracy lag is plus the impact of early / late orders, and I think the numbers *mainly* illustrate getting up to speed.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585

    Priti goin to be hostin the Press Conference:

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1348963046388084736?s=20

    I think they picked the wrong day to send her out. She is going to get questions on Boris biking, the terrorist asylum seeker who got released and immediately killed the guys in the park, and the food boxes....
    Do you mean questions about Boris bikin' and the stabbin' in Readin'?
  • ...
    The numbers are that extreme - for example, the UK is vaccinating at 5 times the rate per day, per head that Germany is. Double the rate Italy is
    . ...

    Yes, the difference is stark. Only Denmark amongst the EU/EEA countries seems to be doing respectably well. What is most striking is that the difference between us and the rest of Europe is not just on the total number of vaccinations to date, where we would expect to be ahead simply because we started over three weeks before our friends across the Channel, but that they are still miles behind on the jabs-per-day metric. They are not catching up, or keeping up but with an initial lag, they are falling further behind.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912

    Priti goin to be hostin the Press Conference:

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1348963046388084736?s=20

    I think they picked the wrong day to send her out. She is going to get questions on Boris biking, the terrorist asylum seeker who got released and immediately killed the guys in the park, and the food boxes....
    Do you mean questions about Boris bikin' and the stabbin' in Readin'?
    Why all the hating on Priti Patel's accent? It's a lot less stupid than Boris Johnson's.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    edited January 2021
    FF43 said:

    isam said:
    Very Lib Dem Bar Charts. "Winning the vaccination race here ..."

    You don't normally use red and green, unless green means a fully compliant end state has been reached. Normally you would use a graduated scale of one colour to represent different states of completion. As the data is sourced from ourworldindata.org, we could even use the map the same organisation helpfully provides, that presents the data perfectly well:




    But you can critique any visualization of data. For example, the map you show - why is the scale 0-32 when 100 (or 80, or some other number considerably higher than 32) is the desired end state, or where the highest score currently is around 5? 32 neither shows the story of where we are relative to where we want to be, nor provides maximum contrast between countries in the snapshot of where we are in this instance. 32 is a crap scale designed to minimize current differences.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    What do people think vaccine takeup is like ?
    I reckon it'll be into the nineties personally.

    I think you`ll be disappointed. 75% tops.
    Sadly agree, Stocky. But 75% should be enough. I really worry about France, Pakistan and other vaccine-sceptic countries.
    Sorry to be clear I'm talking about the UK, I think we'll be ~ 90% takeup.
    Yep, I think 75% will be about the ceiling for the UK. It is the 40-50% ceiling in France and perhaps even lower in other places that truly worries me for the globe getting back to normal-ish
    I think given the government messaging and "save the NHS" pressure it will be a fair bit higher than 75%, probably in the high 80s and it will go up as more people get it and there is confidence that is doesn't cause any side effects.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited January 2021

    Priti goin to be hostin the Press Conference:

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1348963046388084736?s=20

    I think they picked the wrong day to send her out. She is going to get questions on Boris biking, the terrorist asylum seeker who got released and immediately killed the guys in the park, and the food boxes....
    Do you mean questions about Boris bikin' and the stabbin' in Readin'?
    We'd all better start praying that no one asks her about 5G...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT:

    isam said:
    Indeed. Extraordinarily bad use of colour scale.
    Min/Max - Red/Green with the mid-point as white. It's not unfair, just shows how badly the continent other than Denmark and (IMO) Italy are doing.
    Oh, come off it. I've see less deceptive Lib Dem bar charts. Using the same method of carefully choosing the scale and midpoint, one could equally produce a map of Covid deaths per capita in which the UK, Belgium and Italy are bright red islands in a sea of green.
    It is not in any way deceptive. It is a perfectly way of displaying a range of data - in this case vaccinations.

    You would use exactly the same system in any number of different disciplines - indeed I do for greyscale plots for geophysical surveys. Or for population concentrations. Or pretty much anything.
    As has been mentioned, the UK is a very different colour to the others only because Israel has been omitted. If Israel were included, the UK would be a similar shade of red to the rest of Europe using this scale.

    Do you deliberately omit data from your plots and carefully chose a colour scale specifically in order to artificially highlight a particular point? I would hope not.

    Edit: Anyway, the colour scale is stupid for other reasons. Aside from the colour blindness issue, a two-colour scale like this is more suited to data that varies about zero, with red for negative and green for positive. It makes little sense to use it for data which has only positive values.
    It's a map of Europe. Israel isn't in Europe. No non European countries are coloured in, if they were I would agree with you but they're not. So it is simply showing the genuine Min/Max scale for Europe.

    Should the UK only be compared with Europe? Probably not. I prefer global comparisons. I think people are too obsessed with just Europe which isn't healthy. But that's another story.
    Israel is included on the map. No other country for which we have data is included on the map and not coloured accordingly. It is quite obvious to any rational thinker why the colouring for Israel has been omitted despite its presence on the map.
    This really is the most ridiculous argument ever.

    The UK is doing really well on vaccines. Let's be happy about that, without gloating at failures elsewhere, because we are in deep shit in almost every other aspect, and there's a long way to go.
    Yes, an entire thread derailed by an extended argument about colour codes on a map is not quite, but nor far off, Peak PB.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    An extraordinarily complacent piece from a smug Osborne. Yes Mike, we got lucky, not just last Wednesday but also over the previous two months, such that looking back it's hard to believe that one way or another Trump did not manage to steal the election. The US was saved mainly by the unexpected fact that Trump's judicial appointments had retained enough residual morals at all levels to do their proper job, when nearly all of the craven political establishment in the Republican Party felt it necessary to go along with him for the sake of their careers. Most are still by and large doing so even now.

    The implicit dig at Starmer is utter partisan b******s from a failed politician. Starmer chose to play the long game to reclaim the Labour Party by staying inside the tent for as long as was necessary. Had Starmer instead played his hand too early, Corbyn's annointed successor would in all likelihood be carrying on his destructive work now, and we'd be well on the road to a permanent one party state in the absence of a functioning opposition party.

    Triffic post. And to think I once (and for ages) had you down as a bow tie reactionary. What a shambles. It's amazing how Brexit can bend the light. A point I'd add, though, which you don't make, is that Osborne's implied equation of Donald Trump with Jeremy Corbyn is utter horseshit.

    As a man of modest intellect, steeped in arcane 70s protest politics and more interested in Palestine than yours & mine, Corbyn was unsuitable to be PM. I'd even go as far as to say he was almost as unsuitable as the current occupant. But he is no Trump. Not even a little bit.

    Trump is kind of a Hitler amongst elected leaders of developed nations in that he stands alone, cannot be compared to others without the comparison looking intemperate and objectionable. So, that was disappointing from George. One doesn't expect him to be intemperate and objectionable. Not now he's left office.
  • Selebian said:

    TimT said:

    felix said:

    In Spain - only registered nurses are allowed to give the jabs and thet are holding doses back to give the 2 injections. Meanwhile the figures are rising relentlessly and it is unlikely that anyone under 65 will receive anything possibly before the summer. I have to say the EU has not covered itself in glory on this one - and there seems no real sense of urgency. Quite bizarre.

    But the EU as a whole overtook the UK yesterday in total number of jabs given, so that's something ...
    Some Brexiteers were happy to compare EU-27 exports to UK against UK exports to EU-27 to argue that the EU had more to lose from no deal than the UK, so I'm sure they'd also admit that the EU is better than us on vaccinations :wink:
    I am absolutely delighted if they are doing more jabs than us. As long as we are all doing as many as we can it just means fewer people will die. I think comparisons are useful for highlighting where countries are seriously falling down and trying to analyse why - as with the high death rates in Italy, Spain and the UK earlier last year. I have lots of friends in France and worry hugely about them with the poor way the French rollout is being handled.

    More acutely I have lots of friends in the US and am seeing weekly comments about friends and family of them who have died. One lady I have known for 40 years or more lost both her parents and her in laws in the last month to covid. No one wins if people die unecessarilly when there is a vaccine available. No matter what country they are from.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545
    TimT said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:
    Very Lib Dem Bar Charts. "Winning the vaccination race here ..."

    You don't normally use red and green, unless green means a fully compliant end state has been reached. Normally you would use a graduated scale of one colour to represent different states of completion. As the data is sourced from ourworldindata.org, we could even use the map the same organisation helpfully provides, that presents the data perfectly well:




    But you can critique any visualization of data. For example, the map you show - why is the scale 0-32 when 100 (or 80, or some other number considerably higher than 32) is the desired end state, or where the highest score currently is around 5? 32 neither shows the story of where we are relative to where we want to be, nor provides maximum contrast between countries in the snapshot of where we are in this instance. 32 is a crap scale.
    Sure you can critique the second visualisation, but still more informative than the first one, unless you have a Lib Dem Bar Charts objective of "Covid vaccinations winning here"
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,631
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    This is why all my passwords are 'PineappleDoesNotBelongOnPizza'

    https://twitter.com/ObsoleteDogma/status/1348996141069819904

    Are you the SysAdmin at Parler?
    Please tell me that was one of the passwords?
    No, I believe not. But the style of security that you embrace is somewhat familiar.
    Don't worry my passwords are much more secure.

    A few years ago at work we did a security review and it turned out I was a potential risk.

    Because of the job I do have, I have access to all parts of the company software, systems, and servers and it was deemed me having a single login was a risk, so instead I was given 12 different logins and needed 12 different passwords which needed to be updated after every 30 days.

    And I cannot use any password that I've used in the last year.
    Such systems are completely insane. They force you to have a record of all your passwords on at least 1 and probably more devices which immediately become a weakspot for the entire system.
    Yep - that really isn't the solution to that problem.
    Or do what I do in similar situations and create an algorithm that allows you to work out the password for any system in any month which is generally easier to remember that 144 different passwords during the year.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,853
    edited January 2021

    TimT said:

    This is why all my passwords are 'PineappleDoesNotBelongOnPizza'

    https://twitter.com/ObsoleteDogma/status/1348996141069819904

    Are you the SysAdmin at Parler?
    Please tell me that was one of the passwords?
    No, I believe not. But the style of security that you embrace is somewhat familiar.
    Don't worry my passwords are much more secure.

    A few years ago at work we did a security review and it turned out I was a potential risk.

    Because of the job I do have, I have access to all parts of the company software, systems, and servers and it was deemed me having a single login was a risk, so instead I was given 12 different logins and needed 12 different passwords which needed to be updated after every 30 days.

    And I cannot use any password that I've used in the last year.
    So you've ended up with a single password for your password manager that never changes?

    I thought that the thinking now was that enforcing frequent password changes led to simpler passwords, passwords with incrementing numbers or passwords written down.

    Our policy changed to one complex password that does not have to be changed frequently.
    I'm not allowed to use a password manager.

    But I cannot use for example 'PineappleDoesNotBelongOnPizza' then change it to 'PineappleDoesNotBelongonPizza1' it detects similar passwords and puts the kibosh on them.
    But, presumably, PineappleDoesBelongOnPizza is so completely different in concept as to be permissible?
    No, it would know I've been hacked or am under duress.
    Unless the passwords are being stored incorrectly or the system tries hashing a selection of similar passwords to check against previous hashes (unlikely), you'd normally get away with oscillating between two schemes.

    PineappleDoesNotBelongOnPizza01
    EatingBromeliadsIsWeird02
    PineappleDoesNotBelongOnPizza03

    etc

    A proper two factor system would of course be better if it is that vital...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    Sandpit said:

    This is why all my passwords are 'PineappleDoesNotBelongOnPizza'

    https://twitter.com/ObsoleteDogma/status/1348996141069819904

    Are you the SysAdmin at Parler?
    Please tell me that was one of the passwords?
    No, I believe not. But the style of security that you embrace is somewhat familiar.
    Don't worry my passwords are much more secure.

    A few years ago at work we did a security review and it turned out I was a potential risk.

    Because of the job I do have, I have access to all parts of the company software, systems, and servers and it was deemed me having a single login was a risk, so instead I was given 12 different logins and needed 12 different passwords which needed to be updated after every 30 days.

    And I cannot use any password that I've used in the last year.
    Ha ha. Been there, done that. Always a difficult job to thread the needle between security and workability.

    The fun bit is to work out which ones can be used to reset the other ones if necessary, and which ones you really need to remember ‘cos it will be a helpdesk call if you forget.

    Our (former) IT manager unilaterally launched a policy last year whereby everyone's passwords would automatically change every 30 days, without telling the user, their line manager or indeed anyone else in the company.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    Why would it need to sell them to achieve that?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Selebian said:

    TimT said:

    felix said:

    In Spain - only registered nurses are allowed to give the jabs and thet are holding doses back to give the 2 injections. Meanwhile the figures are rising relentlessly and it is unlikely that anyone under 65 will receive anything possibly before the summer. I have to say the EU has not covered itself in glory on this one - and there seems no real sense of urgency. Quite bizarre.

    But the EU as a whole overtook the UK yesterday in total number of jabs given, so that's something ...
    Some Brexiteers were happy to compare EU-27 exports to UK against UK exports to EU-27 to argue that the EU had more to lose from no deal than the UK, so I'm sure they'd also admit that the EU is better than us on vaccinations :wink:
    I am absolutely delighted if they are doing more jabs than us. As long as we are all doing as many as we can it just means fewer people will die. I think comparisons are useful for highlighting where countries are seriously falling down and trying to analyse why - as with the high death rates in Italy, Spain and the UK earlier last year. I have lots of friends in France and worry hugely about them with the poor way the French rollout is being handled.

    More acutely I have lots of friends in the US and am seeing weekly comments about friends and family of them who have died. One lady I have known for 40 years or more lost both her parents and her in laws in the last month to covid. No one wins if people die unecessarilly when there is a vaccine available. No matter what country they are from.
    I think that's got to be the focus. The lack of criticism from some quarters over the mess that is the EU vaccine scheme is what my issue is. If we'd made such a rubbish go of it the media would be tearing chunks out of the government right now, so far only in Germany and Italy is there any serious criticism over the way the procurement and rollout is being handled by the EU and national governments. The EU shoulders a lot of blame here, both in procurement failures and approval caution. That idiot Belgian saying that the UK and US were taking risks by approving them too quickly is exactly the kind of stuff that the EU is infected with, they really believe that only the EU knows best and other countries are know nothings so it's only safe when the EU pronounces as such, despite it being an identical product developed by a German company and manufactured in Belgium.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912
    I thought this piece on Trump's use of Twitter was quite insightful as well as entertaining.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/12/banned-donald-trump-genius-twitter
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,793
    Nigelb said:

    Wasn't Manaus supposed to have reached herd immunity (along with a massive death rate) last year ?
    https://twitter.com/InfectiousDz/status/1348975416225247232

    It would be nice if the Great Barrington people could update their declaration with:

    NOTES:
    1 - Focused Protection has never succeeded anywhere in the world where widespread community transmission has occurred, despite every country trying it to one degree or another
    2 - Even with colossal death counts, nowhere has reached herd immunity against this coronavirus through infection
    3 - This may be the perfect recipe to breed new mutations that will be resistant to existing immunity (increasing levels of immunity coupled with continuing widespread community prevalence).

    Please bear these in mind before you sign.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2021
    Trump is going to declare bankruptcy in the next year or two. Nobody is going to do business with him.

    The thing is, even given his behaviour before the election, if he had acted maturely upon losing, I think he would have been looking making big bucks...big tv show, loads of products flogged to the faithful, etc.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    edited January 2021
    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT:

    isam said:
    Indeed. Extraordinarily bad use of colour scale.
    Min/Max - Red/Green with the mid-point as white. It's not unfair, just shows how badly the continent other than Denmark and (IMO) Italy are doing.
    Oh, come off it. I've see less deceptive Lib Dem bar charts. Using the same method of carefully choosing the scale and midpoint, one could equally produce a map of Covid deaths per capita in which the UK, Belgium and Italy are bright red islands in a sea of green.
    It is not in any way deceptive. It is a perfectly way of displaying a range of data - in this case vaccinations.

    You would use exactly the same system in any number of different disciplines - indeed I do for greyscale plots for geophysical surveys. Or for population concentrations. Or pretty much anything.
    It's a little misleading as we're at the start of a long roll-out process and everyone in Europe has vaccinated a negligible proportion of the public. So it has a scale running from "sod all" to "very few" and makes it appear that the UK is in a qualitatively completely different position to everyone else.

    Look - I applaud UK regulators for approving promptly, and the Government for acquiring doses including of a vaccine which is somewhat easier to roll-out. But it's very early days and we're in a situation where anything encouraging complacency is quite dangerous.
    I tend to agree with that last.

    Most of the EU has a 2-3 week approval lag plus whatever the bureaucracy lag is plus the impact of early / late orders, and I think the numbers *mainly* illustrate getting up to speed.
    It would be interesting to see graphs showing vaccinations/day/100k population adjusted to vaccine approval data for the EU countries.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585

    Priti goin to be hostin the Press Conference:

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1348963046388084736?s=20

    I think they picked the wrong day to send her out. She is going to get questions on Boris biking, the terrorist asylum seeker who got released and immediately killed the guys in the park, and the food boxes....
    Do you mean questions about Boris bikin' and the stabbin' in Readin'?
    We'd all better start praying that no one asks her about 5G...
    Don't you mean 5?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    Perhaps George Soros could be persuaded that this is as good a spend of his money in defence/promotion of democracy as any ...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Trump is going to declare bankruptcy in the next year or two. Nobody is going to do business with him.

    The thing is, even given his behaviour before the election, if he had acted maturely upon losing, I think he would have been looking making big bucks...big tv show, loads of products flogged to the faithful, etc.
    He may still do so

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348780623574405121?s=20

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348750903365406721?s=20

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348754366904193028?s=20
  • TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    The Prime Minister's spokesman has responded to these images of tiny food parcels sent out to families in place of free school meals:

    "We’re aware of those images circulating on social media and it's clear the contents of those food parcels are completely unacceptable."

    PM's spokesman says the Department for Education is looking into this urgently and the Minister for Children Vicky Ford is speaking to the company responsible.

    "They will be making it clear that boxes like this should not be given to families.”

    Much better than the bollocks written by the Tory MP for Middlesboro and Clevelend.

    Whatever the truth of the story, the optics are terrible - especially for Tories - and the instant reaction should be UGH
    We shall soon find out the truth of this but the response here on PB would make a great case study on how people react to social media. We have everything from @Rochdale pricing it up from Tescos, adamant that the government willingly sent out a four quid's worth of food for which it paid £30 (or £23) to its mates, to @BigBadPhilThomson saying we don't know yet we need to wait for proof and there's no way it was £30 (or £23). And then there's Marcus Rashford and now No.10 weighing in.

    Beautiful.

    I look forward to the "truth" emerging.

    I hate meta-posts on PB but coming back after a few hours away it seems to be a perfect example.

    My own view? More @Phil than @Rochdale. Let's wait to see what actually happened rather than go to war over one tweet.
    I don't recall saying the government had signed off the exact food package. I suggested that as the government is doing this under duress that it will have put a junior bod onto the job who will have accepted that £15 of food really should cost them £23. That the contractor then managed to send out £2.30 worth of food just makes it funny.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson blames Chinese for coronavirus pandemic telling world leaders it was triggered by 'demented' people who 'grind up the scales of a pangolin' in bid to become more 'potent'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9138117/Boris-Johnson-blames-Chinese-Covid-saying-pandemic-triggered-demented-traditional-medicine.html

    I'd like to think he was being provocative as it's the only way to annoy the Chinese government.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    HYUFD said:
    No, no, no, step up apart. At least 2m.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    TimT said:

    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT:

    isam said:
    Indeed. Extraordinarily bad use of colour scale.
    Min/Max - Red/Green with the mid-point as white. It's not unfair, just shows how badly the continent other than Denmark and (IMO) Italy are doing.
    Oh, come off it. I've see less deceptive Lib Dem bar charts. Using the same method of carefully choosing the scale and midpoint, one could equally produce a map of Covid deaths per capita in which the UK, Belgium and Italy are bright red islands in a sea of green.
    It is not in any way deceptive. It is a perfectly way of displaying a range of data - in this case vaccinations.

    You would use exactly the same system in any number of different disciplines - indeed I do for greyscale plots for geophysical surveys. Or for population concentrations. Or pretty much anything.
    It's a little misleading as we're at the start of a long roll-out process and everyone in Europe has vaccinated a negligible proportion of the public. So it has a scale running from "sod all" to "very few" and makes it appear that the UK is in a qualitatively completely different position to everyone else.

    Look - I applaud UK regulators for approving promptly, and the Government for acquiring doses including of a vaccine which is somewhat easier to roll-out. But it's very early days and we're in a situation where anything encouraging complacency is quite dangerous.
    I tend to agree with that last.

    Most of the EU has a 2-3 week approval lag plus whatever the bureaucracy lag is plus the impact of early / late orders, and I think the numbers *mainly* illustrate getting up to speed.
    It would be interesting to see graphs showing vaccinations/day/100k population adjusted to vaccine approval data for the EU countries.
    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-vaccination-doses-per-capita?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&time=earliest..latest&country=GBR~DEU~ITA~ESP~FRA~DNK~NLD~BEL~SWE~PRT~GRC~IRL&region=Europe
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Priti goin to be hostin the Press Conference:

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1348963046388084736?s=20

    I think they picked the wrong day to send her out. She is going to get questions on Boris biking, the terrorist asylum seeker who got released and immediately killed the guys in the park, and the food boxes....
    Do you mean questions about Boris bikin' and the stabbin' in Readin'?
    We'd all better start praying that no one asks her about 5G...
    Don't you mean 5?
    Well, precisely!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585

    Priti goin to be hostin the Press Conference:

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1348963046388084736?s=20

    I think they picked the wrong day to send her out. She is going to get questions on Boris biking, the terrorist asylum seeker who got released and immediately killed the guys in the park, and the food boxes....
    Do you mean questions about Boris bikin' and the stabbin' in Readin'?
    Why all the hating on Priti Patel's accent? It's a lot less stupid than Boris Johnson's.
    Dropping 'G's and 'H's was a cardinal sin for aspiring middle class liberal parents in the 60s and 70s. I speak from pre-woke, pre-Remainer experience.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited January 2021
    He apparently *personally* owes DB $300 million in the next few years via PGs.

    Having his golf courses and hotels closed because of the pandemic wasn't in the business plan.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    For anyone who’s worried about forgetting passwords - meet the guy who’s used up 8 of his 10 guesses at an encrypted memory stick password - containing 7,000 Bitcoin.

    https://it.slashdot.org/story/21/01/12/1415248/lost-passwords-lock-millionaires-out-of-their-bitcoin-fortunes
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    TimT said:

    This is why all my passwords are 'PineappleDoesNotBelongOnPizza'

    https://twitter.com/ObsoleteDogma/status/1348996141069819904

    Are you the SysAdmin at Parler?
    Please tell me that was one of the passwords?
    No, I believe not. But the style of security that you embrace is somewhat familiar.
    Don't worry my passwords are much more secure.

    A few years ago at work we did a security review and it turned out I was a potential risk.

    Because of the job I do have, I have access to all parts of the company software, systems, and servers and it was deemed me having a single login was a risk, so instead I was given 12 different logins and needed 12 different passwords which needed to be updated after every 30 days.

    And I cannot use any password that I've used in the last year.
    So you've ended up with a single password for your password manager that never changes?

    I thought that the thinking now was that enforcing frequent password changes led to simpler passwords, passwords with incrementing numbers or passwords written down.

    Our policy changed to one complex password that does not have to be changed frequently.
    I'm not allowed to use a password manager.

    But I cannot use for example 'PineappleDoesNotBelongOnPizza' then change it to 'PineappleDoesNotBelongonPizza1' it detects similar passwords and puts the kibosh on them.
    But, presumably, PineappleDoesBelongOnPizza is so completely different in concept as to be permissible?
    No, it would know I've been hacked or am under duress.
    Unless the passwords are being stored incorrectly or the system tries hashing a selection of similar passwords to check against previous hashes (unlikely), you'd normally get away with oscillating between two schemes.

    PineappleDoesNotBelongOnPizza01
    EatingBromeliadsIsWeird02
    PineappleDoesNotBelongOnPizza03

    etc

    A proper two factor system would of course be better if it is that vital...
    My work email was hacked so I did the 2-factor system thing for 6 months. Way too cumbersome - and that's even in a time of no international travel - so I did away with it.


  • Yes, an entire thread derailed by an extended argument about colour codes on a map is not quite, but nor far off, Peak PB.

    True, but I think we can do better:

    Guys [I expect it is..], you've missed the main point. The problem isn't so much the colour scheme, it's the use of a map. The map adds absolutely nothing, it's much clearer just to use a bar chart.

    OK, off you go...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    FF43 said:

    isam said:
    Very Lib Dem Bar Charts. "Winning the vaccination race here ..."

    You don't normally use red and green, unless green means a fully compliant end state has been reached. Normally you would use a graduated scale of one colour to represent different states of completion. As the data is sourced from ourworldindata.org, we could even use the map the same organisation helpfully provides, that presents the data perfectly well:


    That's no good either. There's no good reason to have an exponential scale for vaccination rates, rather than a uniform scale, and they don't have enough intervals - so Denmark (2) and the UK (3.94) have the same colour.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Trump is going to declare bankruptcy in the next year or two. Nobody is going to do business with him.

    The thing is, even given his behaviour before the election, if he had acted maturely upon losing, I think he would have been looking making big bucks...big tv show, loads of products flogged to the faithful, etc.
    He may still do so

    /twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348780623574405121?s=20
    ://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348750903365406721?s=20
    //twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348754366904193028?s=20
    Well Shopify won't work with him, i am guessing lots of payment processors will be funny about being seen facilitating his transactions and he won't be on Fox News. I bet YouTube give any show he wants to put up the instant ban hammer.

    Much harder to make really big bucks when you are hidden away in a corner of the internet. Alex Jones lost massive amounts of income when he got depersoned.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    TimT said:


    Perhaps George Soros could be persuaded that this is as good a spend of his money in defence/promotion of democracy as any ...
    I would rather see Promontoria or Manolete Partners. They are both a complete shower of [edit skilled and capable business people].
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    HYUFD said:

    Trump is going to declare bankruptcy in the next year or two. Nobody is going to do business with him.

    The thing is, even given his behaviour before the election, if he had acted maturely upon losing, I think he would have been looking making big bucks...big tv show, loads of products flogged to the faithful, etc.
    He may still do so

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348780623574405121?s=20

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348750903365406721?s=20

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348754366904193028?s=20
    The 7% who will never vote Republican ever again are not going to make it easy for whoever they pick as their candidate.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    Sandpit said:

    For anyone who’s worried about forgetting passwords - meet the guy who’s used up 8 of his 10 guesses at an encrypted memory stick password - containing 7,000 Bitcoin.

    https://it.slashdot.org/story/21/01/12/1415248/lost-passwords-lock-millionaires-out-of-their-bitcoin-fortunes

    That's back where we started I think!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,280

    Priti goin to be hostin the Press Conference:

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1348963046388084736?s=20

    I think they picked the wrong day to send her out. She is going to get questions on Boris biking, the terrorist asylum seeker who got released and immediately killed the guys in the park, and the food boxes....
    Do you mean questions about Boris bikin' and the stabbin' in Readin'?
    Something that Priti Patel, Sadiq Khan and Beth Rigby have in common.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    FF43 said:

    isam said:
    Very Lib Dem Bar Charts. "Winning the vaccination race here ..."

    You don't normally use red and green, unless green means a fully compliant end state has been reached. Normally you would use a graduated scale of one colour to represent different states of completion. As the data is sourced from ourworldindata.org, we could even use the map the same organisation helpfully provides, that presents the data perfectly well:


    That's no good either. There's no good reason to have an exponential scale for vaccination rates, rather than a uniform scale, and they don't have enough intervals - so Denmark (2) and the UK (3.94) have the same colour.
    You think he doesn't know that?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912

    Priti goin to be hostin the Press Conference:

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1348963046388084736?s=20

    I think they picked the wrong day to send her out. She is going to get questions on Boris biking, the terrorist asylum seeker who got released and immediately killed the guys in the park, and the food boxes....
    Do you mean questions about Boris bikin' and the stabbin' in Readin'?
    Why all the hating on Priti Patel's accent? It's a lot less stupid than Boris Johnson's.
    Dropping 'G's and 'H's was a cardinal sin for aspiring middle class liberal parents in the 60s and 70s. I speak from pre-woke, pre-Remainer experience.
    She talks like most people living in the South East of England, though. There is nothing unusual or mention worthy in her accent, in my opinion. I never have any difficulty understanding what she is saying, which is more than I can say of the PM, whom I sometimes struggle to understand.
  • He apparently *personally* owes DB $300 million in the next few years via PGs.

    Having his golf courses and hotels closed because of the pandemic wasn't in the business plan.
    He's never making that money now. If he had been grown up big boy after the election, I think despite being very divisive, he would have been looking at making big bucks.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328



    Yes, an entire thread derailed by an extended argument about colour codes on a map is not quite, but nor far off, Peak PB.

    True, but I think we can do better:

    Guys [I expect it is..], you've missed the main point. The problem isn't so much the colour scheme, it's the use of a map. The map adds absolutely nothing, it's much clearer just to use a bar chart.

    OK, off you go...
    Richard, if only you'd said pie chart, I could agree with you.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545

    FF43 said:

    isam said:
    Very Lib Dem Bar Charts. "Winning the vaccination race here ..."

    You don't normally use red and green, unless green means a fully compliant end state has been reached. Normally you would use a graduated scale of one colour to represent different states of completion. As the data is sourced from ourworldindata.org, we could even use the map the same organisation helpfully provides, that presents the data perfectly well:


    That's no good either. There's no good reason to have an exponential scale for vaccination rates, rather than a uniform scale, and they don't have enough intervals - so Denmark (2) and the UK (3.94) have the same colour.
    You think he doesn't know that?
    What are you insinuating, you contemptible turd!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    He apparently *personally* owes DB $300 million in the next few years via PGs.

    Having his golf courses and hotels closed because of the pandemic wasn't in the business plan.
    I wonder what he will get for his memoirs. In fairness, they will be an entertaining read, assuming they are not gutted by nervous defence counsel worrying about forthcoming trials.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    MaxPB said:

    Selebian said:

    TimT said:

    felix said:

    In Spain - only registered nurses are allowed to give the jabs and thet are holding doses back to give the 2 injections. Meanwhile the figures are rising relentlessly and it is unlikely that anyone under 65 will receive anything possibly before the summer. I have to say the EU has not covered itself in glory on this one - and there seems no real sense of urgency. Quite bizarre.

    But the EU as a whole overtook the UK yesterday in total number of jabs given, so that's something ...
    Some Brexiteers were happy to compare EU-27 exports to UK against UK exports to EU-27 to argue that the EU had more to lose from no deal than the UK, so I'm sure they'd also admit that the EU is better than us on vaccinations :wink:
    I am absolutely delighted if they are doing more jabs than us. As long as we are all doing as many as we can it just means fewer people will die. I think comparisons are useful for highlighting where countries are seriously falling down and trying to analyse why - as with the high death rates in Italy, Spain and the UK earlier last year. I have lots of friends in France and worry hugely about them with the poor way the French rollout is being handled.

    More acutely I have lots of friends in the US and am seeing weekly comments about friends and family of them who have died. One lady I have known for 40 years or more lost both her parents and her in laws in the last month to covid. No one wins if people die unecessarilly when there is a vaccine available. No matter what country they are from.
    I think that's got to be the focus. The lack of criticism from some quarters over the mess that is the EU vaccine scheme is what my issue is. If we'd made such a rubbish go of it the media would be tearing chunks out of the government right now, so far only in Germany and Italy is there any serious criticism over the way the procurement and rollout is being handled by the EU and national governments. The EU shoulders a lot of blame here, both in procurement failures and approval caution. That idiot Belgian saying that the UK and US were taking risks by approving them too quickly is exactly the kind of stuff that the EU is infected with, they really believe that only the EU knows best and other countries are know nothings so it's only safe when the EU pronounces as such, despite it being an identical product developed by a German company and manufactured in Belgium.
    The politics of vaccines and vaccination is about to blow up in Europe.
  • DavidL said:

    He apparently *personally* owes DB $300 million in the next few years via PGs.

    Having his golf courses and hotels closed because of the pandemic wasn't in the business plan.
    I wonder what he will get for his memoirs. In fairness, they will be an entertaining read, assuming they are not gutted by nervous defence counsel worrying about forthcoming trials.
    Who will touch it? Random House basically have the large scale end sown up, and they aren't going to go near him.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited January 2021

    He apparently *personally* owes DB $300 million in the next few years via PGs.

    Having his golf courses and hotels closed because of the pandemic wasn't in the business plan.
    He's never making that money now. If he had been grown up big boy after the election, I think despite being very divisive, he would have been looking at making big bucks.
    I've dabbled in altfi a bit and can tell you Personal Guarantees aren't worth shit. Particularly when you're dealing with the likes of Trump. That Deutsche haven't realised this is astonishing.
    First charges over stuff like his golf course is what you need.
  • I have this vision of Trump having to resort to Jon Daly style pop-up stores in the parking lots of Hooters, flogging merch.
  • HYUFD said:

    Trump is going to declare bankruptcy in the next year or two. Nobody is going to do business with him.

    The thing is, even given his behaviour before the election, if he had acted maturely upon losing, I think he would have been looking making big bucks...big tv show, loads of products flogged to the faithful, etc.
    He may still do so

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348780623574405121?s=20

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348750903365406721?s=20

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348754366904193028?s=20
    The 7% who will never vote Republican ever again are not going to make it easy for whoever they pick as their candidate.
    I suspect that (ignoring youngsters who'd never been able to vote before) Trump's support includes more than 7% who'd never voted prior to 2016/2020. If Trump has run his last race, it may well be that they never vote again.

    But, equally, a lot of people specifically voted to beat Trump, and wouldn't to beat Marco Rubio or Nikki Haley.

    If Trump isn't on the ballot, I strongly suspect 2024 will see a large decline in turnout on BOTH sides. That isn't necessarily a problem for the GOP candidate. The fact is they are unlikely to need anything like 81 million votes or even 74 million to win.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585
    DavidL said:

    He apparently *personally* owes DB $300 million in the next few years via PGs.

    Having his golf courses and hotels closed because of the pandemic wasn't in the business plan.
    I wonder what he will get for his memoirs. In fairness, they will be an entertaining read, assuming they are not gutted by nervous defence counsel worrying about forthcoming trials.
    "Trump: The Whitehouse Years" will be outsold by "Trump: The Attica Diaries".
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,631
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    This early data (if correct!) seems to suggest that the vaccination programme is already having a notable effect. Be keen to hear thoughts about this...

    https://reaction.life/judging-vaccination-success-requires-numbers-not-guesswork/
  • An interesting suggestion, and one to watch (although I think he shouldn't be using a straight line regression):

    https://twitter.com/reactionlife/status/1348988355200102400
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Pulpstar said:

    He apparently *personally* owes DB $300 million in the next few years via PGs.

    Having his golf courses and hotels closed because of the pandemic wasn't in the business plan.
    He's never making that money now. If he had been grown up big boy after the election, I think despite being very divisive, he would have been looking at making big bucks.
    I've dabbled in altfi a bit and can tell you Personal Guarantees aren't worth shit. Particularly when you're dealing with the likes of Trump. That Deutsche haven't realised this is astonishing.
    Presumably most of the loans are mortgages held against property?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    HYUFD said:
    Not to speak ill of the dead, but it is a tragic loss to irony that he didn't die of Covid....
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,225
    edited January 2021
    Back on topic, there were moments shortly after the election when I thought American Democracy was really in danger. They soon passed, as will the current disruptions, but what if the result had been closer? What if Biden had won by, say, 4million in the personal vote and a handful of ECVs? I'm not sure the system would have held strong then.

    Osborne is wrong, and far too complacent.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    HYUFD said:
    On point 1 maybe he should add ' as long as they notengaged in insurrection'!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912
    Andy_JS said:

    Priti goin to be hostin the Press Conference:

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1348963046388084736?s=20

    I think they picked the wrong day to send her out. She is going to get questions on Boris biking, the terrorist asylum seeker who got released and immediately killed the guys in the park, and the food boxes....
    Do you mean questions about Boris bikin' and the stabbin' in Readin'?
    Something that Priti Patel, Sadiq Khan and Beth Rigby have in common.
    Good. The more people who talk like normal people in public life the better. Maybe one day people will realise how odd it is that so many of those in public life come from the same narrow segment of society and all sound the same, when our country has such a wide breadth of talent and so much diversity in how we speak.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,280
    edited January 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    Priti goin to be hostin the Press Conference:

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1348963046388084736?s=20

    I think they picked the wrong day to send her out. She is going to get questions on Boris biking, the terrorist asylum seeker who got released and immediately killed the guys in the park, and the food boxes....
    Do you mean questions about Boris bikin' and the stabbin' in Readin'?
    Something that Priti Patel, Sadiq Khan and Beth Rigby have in common.
    Good. The more people who talk like normal people in public life the better. Maybe one day people will realise how odd it is that so many of those in public life come from the same narrow segment of society and all sound the same, when our country has such a wide breadth of talent and so much diversity in how we speak.
    No-one talks like that in the Midlands where I live. In fact a feature of the local accent here is to pronounce the "g" at the end of "ing" words in a particularly emphatic way.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    He apparently *personally* owes DB $300 million in the next few years via PGs.

    Having his golf courses and hotels closed because of the pandemic wasn't in the business plan.
    He's never making that money now. If he had been grown up big boy after the election, I think despite being very divisive, he would have been looking at making big bucks.
    I've dabbled in altfi a bit and can tell you Personal Guarantees aren't worth shit. Particularly when you're dealing with the likes of Trump. That Deutsche haven't realised this is astonishing.
    Presumably most of the loans are mortgages held against property?
    I'd hope it's first charge mortgages for Deutsche's sake. Tricky for a building or golf course to run off.
  • DavidL said:

    He apparently *personally* owes DB $300 million in the next few years via PGs.

    Having his golf courses and hotels closed because of the pandemic wasn't in the business plan.
    I wonder what he will get for his memoirs. In fairness, they will be an entertaining read, assuming they are not gutted by nervous defence counsel worrying about forthcoming trials.
    I don't think they will be. Suspect he'll farm it off to a ghost writer and the book will neither be in his voice nor include major revelations (either real or invented).
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited January 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson blames Chinese for coronavirus pandemic telling world leaders it was triggered by 'demented' people who 'grind up the scales of a pangolin' in bid to become more 'potent'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9138117/Boris-Johnson-blames-Chinese-Covid-saying-pandemic-triggered-demented-traditional-medicine.html

    Completely wrong.

    The correct way to eat a pangolin is just like a globe artichoke.

    You pull off the outer scales, dipping them in Hollondaise sauce and scraping away the tender part with your teeth.

    And then you tuck into the delicious heart.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    HYUFD said:

    Trump is going to declare bankruptcy in the next year or two. Nobody is going to do business with him.

    The thing is, even given his behaviour before the election, if he had acted maturely upon losing, I think he would have been looking making big bucks...big tv show, loads of products flogged to the faithful, etc.
    He may still do so

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348780623574405121?s=20

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348750903365406721?s=20

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1348754366904193028?s=20
    The 7% who will never vote Republican ever again are not going to make it easy for whoever they pick as their candidate.
    They'll have to do some kind of New Labour rebranding and purge everyone associated with Trump.

    Isn't a problem with the US system that they don't really get a new "leader" until the next presidential primaries, which are years away? Makes it very difficult for the party to put its house in order and rebrand meantime, even if they wanted to.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Selebian said:

    TimT said:

    felix said:

    In Spain - only registered nurses are allowed to give the jabs and thet are holding doses back to give the 2 injections. Meanwhile the figures are rising relentlessly and it is unlikely that anyone under 65 will receive anything possibly before the summer. I have to say the EU has not covered itself in glory on this one - and there seems no real sense of urgency. Quite bizarre.

    But the EU as a whole overtook the UK yesterday in total number of jabs given, so that's something ...
    Some Brexiteers were happy to compare EU-27 exports to UK against UK exports to EU-27 to argue that the EU had more to lose from no deal than the UK, so I'm sure they'd also admit that the EU is better than us on vaccinations :wink:
    I am absolutely delighted if they are doing more jabs than us. As long as we are all doing as many as we can it just means fewer people will die. I think comparisons are useful for highlighting where countries are seriously falling down and trying to analyse why - as with the high death rates in Italy, Spain and the UK earlier last year. I have lots of friends in France and worry hugely about them with the poor way the French rollout is being handled.

    More acutely I have lots of friends in the US and am seeing weekly comments about friends and family of them who have died. One lady I have known for 40 years or more lost both her parents and her in laws in the last month to covid. No one wins if people die unecessarilly when there is a vaccine available. No matter what country they are from.
    I think that's got to be the focus. The lack of criticism from some quarters over the mess that is the EU vaccine scheme is what my issue is. If we'd made such a rubbish go of it the media would be tearing chunks out of the government right now, so far only in Germany and Italy is there any serious criticism over the way the procurement and rollout is being handled by the EU and national governments. The EU shoulders a lot of blame here, both in procurement failures and approval caution. That idiot Belgian saying that the UK and US were taking risks by approving them too quickly is exactly the kind of stuff that the EU is infected with, they really believe that only the EU knows best and other countries are know nothings so it's only safe when the EU pronounces as such, despite it being an identical product developed by a German company and manufactured in Belgium.
    The politics of vaccines and vaccination is about to blow up in Europe.
    Along with several of their health services, sadly. At least most of them are not suffering our current rate of infection, Ireland apart.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson blames Chinese for coronavirus pandemic telling world leaders it was triggered by 'demented' people who 'grind up the scales of a pangolin' in bid to become more 'potent'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9138117/Boris-Johnson-blames-Chinese-Covid-saying-pandemic-triggered-demented-traditional-medicine.html

    Completely wrong.

    The correct way to eat a pangolin is just like a globe artichoke.

    You pull off the outer scales, dipping them in Hollondaise sauce and scraping away the tender part with your teeth.

    And then tuck into the delicious heart.
    (makes note to self for next Con Club BBQ.....)
  • DavidL said:

    He apparently *personally* owes DB $300 million in the next few years via PGs.

    Having his golf courses and hotels closed because of the pandemic wasn't in the business plan.
    I wonder what he will get for his memoirs. In fairness, they will be an entertaining read, assuming they are not gutted by nervous defence counsel worrying about forthcoming trials.
    There's laws in America that prevent criminals from profiting/selling their stories. It can in some circumstances be applied retroactively.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    edited January 2021

    An interesting suggestion, and one to watch (although I think he shouldn't be using a straight line regression):

    https:/twitter.com/reactionlife/status/1348988355200102400

    You were beaten by mere seconds!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Priti goin to be hostin the Press Conference:

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1348963046388084736?s=20

    I think they picked the wrong day to send her out. She is going to get questions on Boris biking, the terrorist asylum seeker who got released and immediately killed the guys in the park, and the food boxes....
    Do you mean questions about Boris bikin' and the stabbin' in Readin'?
    Something that Priti Patel, Sadiq Khan and Beth Rigby have in common.
    Good. The more people who talk like normal people in public life the better. Maybe one day people will realise how odd it is that so many of those in public life come from the same narrow segment of society and all sound the same, when our country has such a wide breadth of talent and so much diversity in how we speak.
    No-one talks like that in the Midlands where I live. In fact a feature of the local accent here is to pronounce the "g" at the end of "ing" words in a particularly emphatic way.
    Having grown up 8 miles South of Birmingham, in all fairness, I would rather sound like Priti, Khan or Rigby, than the low- rent Jasper Carrot tones the experience left me with.
This discussion has been closed.