Categories
Jabbing the Unjabbable (or, for the less polite, Pricking the Pricks) – politicalbetting.com
Jabbing the Unjabbable (or, for the less polite, Pricking the Pricks) – politicalbetting.com
I saw a friend recently who is an enthusiast of myriad butt-clenching conspiracy theories.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I told you all that in confidence.
No vaccine certificate -- no travel, no theatre, no gigs, no restaurant meals, no schools for your children. Perfectly fair.
The upside is no skiing.
Others can take their chances
'And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks...'
Acts 9:4-5
I am probably completely wrong but my prediction is that so many people are so scared and COVID is in the news so much that basically everyone is going to get jabbed - uptake will not be a big problem overall.
I would suggest that a certificate is not needed - simply let passport control at airports/ports access an electronic list of those vaccinated, which can be uploaded from primary care data. However, given I work with health data and am aware of such interesting events as people having multiple deaths or giving birth aged 93, I accept that may not be foolproof.
A sufficiently successful vaccination programme will also make certification unnecessary - the goal should be to reach herd immunity (indeed, beyond the minimum level) through mass vaccination and eradicate Covid in any meaningful sense in this country (sporadic cases may pop up, but Covid will have nowhere to go). Once that is done, airlines will no more want to see proof of a Covid vaccination than of a smallpox vaccination. There will of course be a period of time when many are vaccinated but Covid is still a threat, so in the short term some proof may be useful.
Also, I feel your pain re your friend. My father in law, whom I like very much and go to (well, used to when that was possible) the pub with on a fairly regular basis is doubtful the moon landings ever took place. He says this mostly to rile another friend who never fails to bite, but also seems to believe it himself. I, too, after once setting out why I believe him to be wrong, no longer engage on this.
In Week 51, the number of deaths registered was 12.7% above the five-year average (1,463 deaths higher).
In Week 52, the number of deaths registered was 44.8% above the five-year average (3,566 deaths higher)*
*Note caveat on week 52: but this increase should be treated with caution; the five-year average was particularly low in Week 52 as the years 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019, all contained two bank holidays, whereas Week 52 of 2020 only contained one bank holiday so would likely have more deaths registered.
A hypothetical 20 year old may feel fine risking it.
But the elderly chap working as a cleaner in the 20 years hotel in Bora Bora may not have had the jab or may be one of those who isn't immunised by the vaccination.
Perhaps his next essential visit will be to the GSK facility in Barnard Caste?
So I deny the existence of Australia.
Hurrah!
Seriously, though, that must be a worry.
Thanks for the explainer.
The first point is so annoying. I used to be a retail consultant and it was basically a given that you could always suggest reducing cost (but not really range) by reducing skus. And yet it seems to fall on deaf ears.
I've never understood why it is deemed useful to be able to buy 6 different brands of the same type of pasta, all in 3 sizes, but no e.g. juniper berries (except as part of a gin garnish bag) at my local big super....
One inevitably develops a mental picture of other posters, and I accept this could well be way off the mark.
I drew my conclusions because of the general tone of your comments. For example, the comment I responded to said, re young people:-
"So, they not going to listen to Hancock blathering on about "Save Grandpa".
After all, what did Gramps ever do for them? He is a greedy, selfish man who denied the benefits he received to younger people."
That speaks to me of an angry and bitter individual. The issue has never been simply one of saving old people. If that had been the case it would have made far more sense to completely lock down the over 70s and let everyone else carry on as normal.
If some young people can't see beyond the ends of their noses and think their right to party trumps everything else then so be it but then it's no good whining about the consequences in years to come.
Let people choose, but choices have consequences.
Only issue is how to get around the fact some people have genuine reasons they can't get the vaccine for whatever reason and should still be able to travel. If there's a legit answer to that then go ahead.
Guildenstern: What?
Rosencrantz: England.
Guildenstern: Just a conspiracy of cartographers, then?
So you might be an undue threat to your fellow clubbers whether or not you have had the vaccine. If you haven't had the jab then the only danger is to yourself.
I think I read somewhere that non-whites are much more likely to refuse vaccines than white people, just as they are more likely to believe conspiracy theories, but I wouldn't swear to that. Odd, as they are many times more likely to die from this virus.
I don't understand why anyone medically able to have it won't want it, but thats just me.
all residents in a care home for older adults and their carers
• all those 80 years of age and over and frontline health and social care workers
• all those 75 years of age and over
• all those 70 years of age and over and clinically extremely vulnerable
individuals
You could split that into 7 groups and be so much clearer
1a) all residents in a care home for older adults
1b) carers who work in residental care homes for older adults
2a) all those 80 years of age and over
2b) frontline health and social care workers
3) all those 75 years of age and over
4a)all those 70 years of age and over
4b) clinically extremely vulnerable individuals
Anyone who refuses, fine. I mean, what's the worst that can happen?
They get Covid - they die.
They get Covid but recover. Okay. Might change their minds, especially if its a bad dose.
Whilst they have Covid, they can't spread it around because all the others around them are sensible and have been vaccinated.
Personally, I say make it voluntary. I'm sure it'll sort itself out in due course.
- Group x is selfish and should be made to pay for COVID problems.
- I need to do y and z - because it is the core of my soul.
As far as I can tell there is selfishness in every single demographic you can conceive of. And also selflessness.
For every 80 year old whining that not getting the second jab will mean that she has to cancel afternoon tea (again), there are those who have holed up, in the style of Charlton Heston hiding from the zombies, only venturing out to grab their deliveries.
For every 20 year demanding a rave where they can rub themselves against 10,000 unwashed bodies, there are those like the bike messenger, who delivered to me this morning. Gloves, eye shielding, elaborate mask and all the social distancing you cold want.
This means that - in my experience both as a consumer and as a professional food wrangler - their availability on regular products is excellent. As opposed to the likes of Asda who can almost always guarantee the product I specifically went in for is out of stock. Or the likes of Sainsburys whose availability target for chilled is an absurd 89% - they can have 11 products out of 100 off sale with a gap and consider that to be acceptable.
What else does a more efficient business model do for you? Saves cost. Which is why Aldi are happy making 15-20% less profit per line than say a Tesco. Just a pity that Aldi are thieving gits if you are a brand owner and Lidl a bunch of pirates.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Unless there are further revelations to come from Edwina...
Remembering (1) this is the seven day moving average number, (2) it takes around 10 days for your body to produce neutralising antibodies post vaccination, and (3) that there is a natural lag between infection and a positive test, it would seem that we're effectively seeing the numbers from when Israel was about 10% vaccinated.
Hopefully therefore, the combination of the UK reaching that level in the next 2 weeks (assuming the pace increases with the roll out of the AZN vaccine) and the effects of Tier 4, should mean that numbers start coming down quite quickly towards the end of the month.
Fingers crossed.
Practicalities aside (forgeries would crop up in minutes, rendering them entirely worthless), it won't be happening because you don't need a license to go to the cinema, eat our etc
The risk is that if travel certificates were issued then this could be extended by future governments to other areas such as the ones you mention, which I would not be in favour of.
As a liberal, I`m not in favour of infringements of civil liberties as a general rule but needs must.
I`ve changed my mind on a few things as this disaster has unfolded. I`m in favour of mask-wearing where previously I was skeptical. Also, I`m more tolerant of lockdown measures now that vaccines have been developed and are in sight in the very short term. But I want to see the escape route and an acceptance that there will still be risk in the system.
I still think that we will have to learn to live with this new threat at some level.
So from having to do no paperwork before you now need impossible to do paperwork at both ends. It is no wonder that so little freight traffic is crossing the border, or that the industry is demanding the government negotiate something that is actually workable.
https://twitter.com/donnyc1975/status/1348648742409351174
Sounds like a plan.
There is a perfectly good existing analogy: trying to buy alcohol when you look around the 18 year old mark. The system works just fine.
Life isn`t fair, plus some of the genuine reasons for not being jabbed are not really that genuine.
Bear in mind as it stands we already know there are those for whom it has been recommended to avoid the vaccine - pregnant and breast feeding mums, those with the risk of severe allergic reaction etc. Those people need protecting and the best way to do that is for everyone around them to be jabbed. It is a matter of personal responsibility for your fellow man and woman.
Deny Australia. Hell, deny the USA. Something you can't see.
Because we don't know if the vaccination prevents onwards transmission. And much of the debate (get it not to kill your granny, etc) is structured around the assumption that it does.
Its about the right to a decent, uninterrupted education.
The right to mind broadening travel.
The right to play team sport.
The right to access mind broadening culture like film and theatre.
The right to exchange ideas with other young people.
The right to work.
The right to protest in groups.
The right not to be overburdened by crushing debt and deficit.
The right to good mental health.
Young people have been stripped of all of these fundamental rights. The main aim has been to protect a cohort of people who have already lived a far longer and far better life than any generation in history. Ever. Some of these people do not even want this protection.
There whole argument is the Earth looks flat, therefore is flat. They rarely attempt any real scientific experiments to see otherwise, and on the very rare occassion they do, these always prove the globe. They then answer with, "Well, the results are being influenced by something else then (that we can't see, and can't test for), as the Earth can't be a sphere." ie, they've reached a conclusion before starting the experiment.
It's well established that the best cure for vaccine hesitancy is personally knowing someone (or even just knowing of someone - ie knowing them at one or two removes) who has been badly affected by a vaccine-preventable illness. Not infallible, but it changes a lot of minds (or makes them up if they've just been hesitant). Arguably, antivaxxing is a product of the astonishing success of vaccines over the decades in making such issues so much rarer.
Either the voluntary uptake will be sufficient to achieve herd immunity (in which case, not a problem), or it won't. If it doesn't, the overwhelming concentration of severe cases will be amongst vaccine refusers (although efficacy is not perfect, it is extremely high in preventing serious cases).
Those who are more resistant will tend to know more of those severe cases, exposing them to that "knowing someone" issue. A significant amount of them will have their minds changed by it.
There may also be a nationalism incentive as well - the UK has high levels of vaccine uptake in comparison to many others (such as France, just next door). When the UK's deaths and hospitalisations come way down and restrictions are progressively lifted, while more anitvax-dominated countries remain in the mire, that will provide another push. It's unpleasant to consider the state of those other countries, but possibly the same effect will work for them as well. Competitiveness with national pride working for a positive cause.
* Yes, the mask mandates will go. "Big Mask" is not that powerful.