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Less than three months ago 56% of Tory members in a CONHome poll said they backed Trump – politicalb

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 7 in General
imageLess than three months ago 56% of Tory members in a CONHome poll said they backed Trump – politicalbetting.com

The above is from a ConservativeHome survey that was published four days before the American election on October 31st 2020 and shows overwhelming support for the incumbent who was seeking a second term.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 5,155
    edited January 7
    First like Trump Biden, as I said all along.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 35,715
    IshmaelZ said:

    First like Trump Biden, as I said all along.

    Stolen!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 11,379

    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    Kevin Bridges

    Iliza Shlesinger
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 4,702

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    I saw Stewart Lee a few years ago, he was very funny. I've not seen Kevin Bridges live but the bits of his shows I've seen on YouTube etc look good.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 371

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    I saw Mike Birbiglia live a year or so ago, and his material is very funny, and not Trump/Brexit/whatever related *in the slightest*. His most recent couple of live shows are on Netflix.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 54,683
    Worth noting that Milo and Clodius were not exactly the zenith of the Republic's problems.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 2,966
    ConHome has been aptly described on here as 'continuity IDS'. Its core constituency is Kippers, BXPers, and Covidiots rather than Conservatives.

    It should really be called ConConHome.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    Maybe Trump and Brexit have combined to kill stand-up? Certainly, Covid isn't helping. Does ANYBODY talk about anything other than Covid these days? Jeez, it's as well we are all locked away - when any two people meet, it is all they talk about for the first twenty minutes. Conversation is just so bloody DULL in 2021....
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 563

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    I saw him in Stornoway, of all places, some years ago. The theme was walking the Israeli border not usually a topic for generating comedy and, as I recall, it wasn't laugh-a-minute, but was certainly interesting.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 811

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    Not sure he counts as stand-up but Dave Gorman gives a good show. Also hat tip for Dara O'Brian.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 5,983
    edited January 7
    Scott_xP said:

    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    Kevin Bridges

    Iliza Shlesinger
    Jimmy Carr (ok, I'm destroying my street cred here) has a lot of stuff on Youtube. ETA nsfw.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 38,775


    Absolutely right. He will be back in 2024 if not barred from office.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,992

    Looks like deleting tweets is all the rage today.

    Fcuking hell.
    I see the Great Forgetting has started.
    We always thought Trump was an imminent danger to democracy. It is your fault do did not read my article, entitled "Why Trump is Absolutely No Danger To Democracy At All And Is Good Actually", closely enough
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    But were they really armed with much more than flags and offensive haircuts?
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 2,834
    edited January 7

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest.
    It depends what you want from live comedy. You can still go to a club (well, not today, but you know) and get a good 15 minute set of observational humour that will make you laugh. You get comics who deal with hecklers brilliantly - Jimmy Carr for example.

    But people are increasingly looking for a full "show". Nobody's asking Dave Gorman or Stewart Lee to adapt his set to the room or banter with the audience, and nor should they. They're not doing some observational chat then saying "you've been a lovely audience, why not try the buffet?" They've got a beautifully structured show which takes you on a journey, has some laughs along the way, but also tells a wider story. Heckling is rare, and everyone thinks anyone who does it is a prick ruining the performance just as much as if they did it at the Old Vic - it just isn't what people are going there for these days in many cases.

    There still is a stand-up "circuit" of course. But the people on it are largely cutting their teeth as a route to something else. So the ones who make a career of it have, to a large extent, failed and aren't that great. Whereas in the past that just WAS the career.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    Not sure he counts as stand-up but Dave Gorman gives a good show. Also hat tip for Dara O'Brian.
    Dave Gorman GoogleWhack was I think the funniest live show I have seen. Since then, a bit like Mark Thomas, marriage, kids, shows about him looking at the Daily Mail comments section and people making idiots of themselves on twitter, it ain't so funny.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,992
    Thousands of replies. Every single one "1600 Pennsylvania Avenue"

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 5,155

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    I saw him in Stornoway, of all places, some years ago. The theme was walking the Israeli border not usually a topic for generating comedy and, as I recall, it wasn't laugh-a-minute, but was certainly interesting.
    A solid tribute. If you can make people laugh in Stornoway...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    I saw him in Stornoway, of all places, some years ago. The theme was walking the Israeli border not usually a topic for generating comedy and, as I recall, it wasn't laugh-a-minute, but was certainly interesting.
    Some of his earlier work was side splitting funny, even though still covering serious topics. He really nailed the cheeky chappie doing cheeky chappie things, and telling you all about the loonies he meets on protests.

    He also had a really good way that even though I basically don't agree with him on much politically, I can still go to the show, have a laugh and not feel like I am personally being attacked. Some other "comedians", seem to be on a mission to shame those that don't agree with their politics and / or convert you.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 9,230

    But were they really armed with much more than flags and offensive haircuts?
    Pipe bombs. for a start, will do.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 9,230
    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    I saw him in Stornoway, of all places, some years ago. The theme was walking the Israeli border not usually a topic for generating comedy and, as I recall, it wasn't laugh-a-minute, but was certainly interesting.
    A solid tribute. If you can make people laugh in Stornoway...
    That's not fair, especially as I don't think Mr THomas's agent or venue was so foolish as to hold the event on a Sabbath.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest.
    It depends what you want from live comedy. You can still go to a club (well, not today, but you know) and get a good 15 minute set of observational humour that will make you laugh. You get comics who deal with hecklers brilliantly - Jimmy Carr for example.

    But people are increasingly looking for a full "show". Nobody's asking Dave Gorman or Stewart Lee to adapt his set to the room or banter with the audience, and nor should they. They're not doing some observational chat then saying "you've been a lovely audience, why not try the buffet?" They've got a beautifully structured show which takes you on a journey, has some laughs along the way, but also tells a wider story. Heckling is rare, and everyone thinks anyone who does it is a prick ruining the performance just as much as if they did it at the Old Vic - it just isn't what people are going there for these days in many cases.
    I went to an Amnesty bash at one of the big London theatres about three days after the start of Gulf War 1 in August 1990. The mood of the acts was wearily End of the World. Nobody was very much up for laughing.

    And then on came a still little-known comedian, who did a fabulous 15 minute set, based on the madness of the 24-hour rolling media in the first three days of that war. Fair to say, it was genius. We LOVED it. Huge ovation at the end.

    And thus, I was introduced to Eddie Izzard.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.
    I’ve been watching a load of comedy to stay sane over the past year, Netflix in particular has done a great job of bringing standup to a global audience, there’s a few dozen one-hour specials up there now.

    The West Coast Americans all got into podcasting as California shut down, led by Rogan’s success. Listening to two or three comedians play off each other for a couple of hours can be very entertaining.

    Of the British comics, the standout for dealing with a crowd is still Jimmy Carr, who will be very rude indeed to anyone who interrupts his show, or who looks out of place in the first few rows. Australian Jim Jeffries is also very good at crowd work, as is American Anthony Jeselnik.

    There’s been a few hits and misses of how to do comedy during a pandemic - zoom comedy definitely doesn’t work, the late-night TV hosts working from home were also misses, drive-through cinema comedy (pioneered in the US by Bert Kreischer) worked quite well, and the best of the online formats has been the 30-jokes-a-minute YouTube monologues of Andrew Schulz - who was rewarded with a Netflix end-of-year show for his efforts.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest.
    It depends what you want from live comedy. You can still go to a club (well, not today, but you know) and get a good 15 minute set of observational humour that will make you laugh. You get comics who deal with hecklers brilliantly - Jimmy Carr for example.

    But people are increasingly looking for a full "show". Nobody's asking Dave Gorman or Stewart Lee to adapt his set to the room or banter with the audience, and nor should they. They're not doing some observational chat then saying "you've been a lovely audience, why not try the buffet?" They've got a beautifully structured show which takes you on a journey, has some laughs along the way, but also tells a wider story. Heckling is rare, and everyone thinks anyone who does it is a prick ruining the performance just as much as if they did it at the Old Vic - it just isn't what people are going there for these days in many cases.

    There still is a stand-up "circuit" of course. But the people on it are largely cutting their teeth as a route to something else. So the ones who make a career of it have, to a large extent, failed and aren't that great. Whereas in the past that just WAS the career.
    I think that is a very good point. When I worked in London, my office used to go to Jongleurs in Camden most Friday nights and you got the guys and girls doing the circuit. Many where incredibly good for 15 mins and able to handle a rowdy crowd with excellent put-downs. And because they were on the rotation, they couldn't get away with the same material month after month.

    Now, often it is about creating this one show that lasts 90 mins and you tour it into the ground in big venues. Then rinse and repeat.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 44,520
    Vaccination data now available online:

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7

    Vaccination data now available online:

    Who says public sector are too slow and bureautic....three hours to agree a sodding webpage. Some kid in their bedroom would have gone from idea to scraping the data and deploying the website in less time than that.
  • isamisam Posts: 34,821

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    Stand ups don't really tell jokes anymore do they? They kind of tell stories as if they are relating real life experiences. Bit weird maybe, but it annoys me that they have to do that kind of acting.

    I liked watching Stewart Lee's show a few years ago, I thought it was really clever and interesting. But, I have said this before, I got to the end and realised I hadn't laughed
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 11,379

    I think that is a very good point. When I worked in London, my office used to go to Jongleurs in Camden most Friday nights and you got the guys and girls doing the circuit. Many where incredibly good for 15 mins and able to handle a rowdy crowd with excellent put-downs. And because they were on the rotation, they couldn't get away with the same material month after month.

    Now, often it is about creating this one show that lasts 90 mins and you tour it into the ground in big venues. Then rinse and repeat.

    As well as her 5 Netflix specials, Iliza has a documentary about how she creates the show, basically touring for a year changing a few bits each week to see what works or doesn't until at the end it's a completely new show (almost)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 17,156
    edited January 7
    Yep, I'm afraid this says something about Conservative Party members and what it says is not great. Also striking was the related survey which had 32% of Leavers and 4% of Remainers STRONGLY supporting Donald Trump. This was for me a massively useful piece of data. We often bandy around charge and counter charge about Brexit and racism on here and so it helps to have the numbers. And I put my hand up to being educated by them. I used to like the line from Wilf Sell - "Not all Leavers are racist but all racists are Leavers" - but after seeing the hard facts it was necessary to revise and soften this to "Only about a third of Leavers are racist and there were a relatively small number of racists who voted Remain."
  • isamisam Posts: 34,821

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest.
    It depends what you want from live comedy. You can still go to a club (well, not today, but you know) and get a good 15 minute set of observational humour that will make you laugh. You get comics who deal with hecklers brilliantly - Jimmy Carr for example.

    But people are increasingly looking for a full "show". Nobody's asking Dave Gorman or Stewart Lee to adapt his set to the room or banter with the audience, and nor should they. They're not doing some observational chat then saying "you've been a lovely audience, why not try the buffet?" They've got a beautifully structured show which takes you on a journey, has some laughs along the way, but also tells a wider story. Heckling is rare, and everyone thinks anyone who does it is a prick ruining the performance just as much as if they did it at the Old Vic - it just isn't what people are going there for these days in many cases.
    I went to an Amnesty bash at one of the big London theatres about three days after the start of Gulf War 1 in August 1990. The mood of the acts was wearily End of the World. Nobody was very much up for laughing.

    And then on came a still little-known comedian, who did a fabulous 15 minute set, based on the madness of the 24-hour rolling media in the first three days of that war. Fair to say, it was genius. We LOVED it. Huge ovation at the end.

    And thus, I was introduced to Eddie Izzard.

    The way you phrased that is so "Alan Partridge introducing Joe Beasley & Cheeky Monkey" it is spooky!!!
  • isamisam Posts: 34,821
    edited January 7
    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest.
    It depends what you want from live comedy. You can still go to a club (well, not today, but you know) and get a good 15 minute set of observational humour that will make you laugh. You get comics who deal with hecklers brilliantly - Jimmy Carr for example.

    But people are increasingly looking for a full "show". Nobody's asking Dave Gorman or Stewart Lee to adapt his set to the room or banter with the audience, and nor should they. They're not doing some observational chat then saying "you've been a lovely audience, why not try the buffet?" They've got a beautifully structured show which takes you on a journey, has some laughs along the way, but also tells a wider story. Heckling is rare, and everyone thinks anyone who does it is a prick ruining the performance just as much as if they did it at the Old Vic - it just isn't what people are going there for these days in many cases.
    I went to an Amnesty bash at one of the big London theatres about three days after the start of Gulf War 1 in August 1990. The mood of the acts was wearily End of the World. Nobody was very much up for laughing.

    And then on came a still little-known comedian, who did a fabulous 15 minute set, based on the madness of the 24-hour rolling media in the first three days of that war. Fair to say, it was genius. We LOVED it. Huge ovation at the end.

    And thus, I was introduced to Eddie Izzard.

    The way you phrased that is so "Alan Partridge introducing Joe Beasley & Cheeky Monkey" it is spooky!!!
    Sorry @MarqueeMark

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    edited January 7
    Carnyx said:

    But were they really armed with much more than flags and offensive haircuts?
    Pipe bombs. for a start, will do.
    But were they real, or just (as I read) two lookalikes? Sure, you wouldn't want to stand near one in case, but it is hardly the survivaists coming to town armed to the teeth with automatic weaponry, grenades and ammunition strung around their bodies. Not exactly Rambo doing a guided tour of Congress....
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest.
    It depends what you want from live comedy. You can still go to a club (well, not today, but you know) and get a good 15 minute set of observational humour that will make you laugh. You get comics who deal with hecklers brilliantly - Jimmy Carr for example.

    But people are increasingly looking for a full "show". Nobody's asking Dave Gorman or Stewart Lee to adapt his set to the room or banter with the audience, and nor should they. They're not doing some observational chat then saying "you've been a lovely audience, why not try the buffet?" They've got a beautifully structured show which takes you on a journey, has some laughs along the way, but also tells a wider story. Heckling is rare, and everyone thinks anyone who does it is a prick ruining the performance just as much as if they did it at the Old Vic - it just isn't what people are going there for these days in many cases.

    There still is a stand-up "circuit" of course. But the people on it are largely cutting their teeth as a route to something else. So the ones who make a career of it have, to a large extent, failed and aren't that great. Whereas in the past that just WAS the career.
    I think that is a very good point. When I worked in London, my office used to go to Jongleurs in Camden most Friday nights and you got the guys and girls doing the circuit. Many where incredibly good for 15 mins and able to handle a rowdy crowd with excellent put-downs. And because they were on the rotation, they couldn't get away with the same material month after month.

    Now, often it is about creating this one show that lasts 90 mins and you tour it into the ground in big venues. Then rinse and repeat.
    If you want a great "technical" comic of the old skool, I'm sorry to say it (as a wet liberal) but you can't get much better than Roy "Chubby" Brown or Jethro. They have the skills and that's their career. Of course, then they'll do a horribly jarring sexist or racist joke. But I'm not the audience.

    These things also differ culturally. I cannot stand the combative US club comic (French & Saunders among others do great parodies of the sort of thing). But they've got a finely honed skill, you have to give them that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115

    Vaccination data now available online:

    That's the same data that has been there all along - on the https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

    They have just added the numbers to some other pages as well.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 24,349

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    Not to be overly Glasgowphile, but Kevin Bridges is pretty good on the making me actually laugh front.

    Personally I’ve thought for a long time that comedians are the far too acknowledged legislators of the world. My spirit quailed when I saw that that diddy (during an extended whine about cancel culture) that writes Titania McGrath also runs standup comedian courses. Looking forward to lots of hilarious jokes about comedy PhDs to go with ones about degrees in media studies.
  • eekeek Posts: 10,100

    Vaccination data now available online:

    That's the same data that has been there all along - on the https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

    They have just added the numbers to some other pages as well.
    If you've ever worked on a gov.uk website you would understand the work required to get any data added to a page.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 2,119
    Scott_xP said:

    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    Kevin Bridges

    Iliza Shlesinger
    From the US, I'd suggest John Mulaney.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 15,678
    A lot of Trumpwashing going on today.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 11,379

    Now, often it is about creating this one show that lasts 90 mins and you tour it into the ground in big venues. Then rinse and repeat.

    Also note I saw Kevin Bridges live in Birmingham, then bought the DVD of the tour recorded in Glasgow.

    Although it's clearly the same show, it's not exactly the same show, and he does engage with hecklers

    In Brum for example when he asked the audience if anybody was not from the UK, someone shouted out Glasgow, so he then did a whole Indy riff
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.
    I’ve been watching a load of comedy to stay sane over the past year, Netflix in particular has done a great job of bringing standup to a global audience, there’s a few dozen one-hour specials up there now.

    The West Coast Americans all got into podcasting as California shut down, led by Rogan’s success. Listening to two or three comedians play off each other for a couple of hours can be very entertaining.

    Of the British comics, the standout for dealing with a crowd is still Jimmy Carr, who will be very rude indeed to anyone who interrupts his show, or who looks out of place in the first few rows. Australian Jim Jeffries is also very good at crowd work, as is American Anthony Jeselnik.

    There’s been a few hits and misses of how to do comedy during a pandemic - zoom comedy definitely doesn’t work, the late-night TV hosts working from home were also misses, drive-through cinema comedy (pioneered in the US by Bert Kreischer) worked quite well, and the best of the online formats has been the 30-jokes-a-minute YouTube monologues of Andrew Schulz - who was rewarded with a Netflix end-of-year show for his efforts.
    I've seen Jimmy Carr live so many times, he's brilliant but I do love his put downs to hecklers. One I remember from 2005 in Newcastle.

    Heckler: I've fucked your Mum

    Jimmy Carr: Well my Mum's 65, you're what 19, I'd say that's a great result for my Mum.

    He even cracked a 7/7 joke which even I gasped about and his response was brilliant.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903
    Scott_xP said:

    I think that is a very good point. When I worked in London, my office used to go to Jongleurs in Camden most Friday nights and you got the guys and girls doing the circuit. Many where incredibly good for 15 mins and able to handle a rowdy crowd with excellent put-downs. And because they were on the rotation, they couldn't get away with the same material month after month.

    Now, often it is about creating this one show that lasts 90 mins and you tour it into the ground in big venues. Then rinse and repeat.

    As well as her 5 Netflix specials, Iliza has a documentary about how she creates the show, basically touring for a year changing a few bits each week to see what works or doesn't until at the end it's a completely new show (almost)
    Yes, that was very good, working through the way a comedian assembles what becomes their one hour special, done a few minutes at a time in the clubs, then toured for a few months in theatres while being finely tuned - then finally locked down and polished before the taping of the special.

    One name not mentioned so far - Bill Burr.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 17,156

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    I saw Stewart Lee a few years ago, he was very funny. I've not seen Kevin Bridges live but the bits of his shows I've seen on YouTube etc look good.
    Nipping in to share with this great site full of great people with impeccable taste one of Lee's greatest hits. If he were Pulp this would be Common People. I know you've seen it but it will slay anybody who hasn't -

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369
    Yet in the thread, even he says that he doesn't think they will actually succeed in seizing the capitol!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 26,009
    edited January 7

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest.
    It depends what you want from live comedy. You can still go to a club (well, not today, but you know) and get a good 15 minute set of observational humour that will make you laugh. You get comics who deal with hecklers brilliantly - Jimmy Carr for example.

    But people are increasingly looking for a full "show". Nobody's asking Dave Gorman or Stewart Lee to adapt his set to the room or banter with the audience, and nor should they. They're not doing some observational chat then saying "you've been a lovely audience, why not try the buffet?" They've got a beautifully structured show which takes you on a journey, has some laughs along the way, but also tells a wider story. Heckling is rare, and everyone thinks anyone who does it is a prick ruining the performance just as much as if they did it at the Old Vic - it just isn't what people are going there for these days in many cases.
    I went to an Amnesty bash at one of the big London theatres about three days after the start of Gulf War 1 in August 1990. The mood of the acts was wearily End of the World. Nobody was very much up for laughing.

    And then on came a still little-known comedian, who did a fabulous 15 minute set, based on the madness of the 24-hour rolling media in the first three days of that war. Fair to say, it was genius. We LOVED it. Huge ovation at the end.

    And thus, I was introduced to Eddie Izzard.

    I used to see Eddie Izzard at exactly that time although in the Soho venues and remember being in physical pain with laughter at his routines. Went to see him many times since around that time and for the subsequent few years.

    I forgive him everything he does now as even back then he was a Charlie Chaplin-type (as in Chaplin's political views) war is stupid let's love everyone kind of guy.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 371
    kinabalu said:

    Yep, I'm afraid this says something about Conservative Party members and what it says is not great. Also striking was the related survey which had 32% of Leavers and 4% of Remainers STRONGLY supporting Donald Trump. This was for me a massively useful piece of data. We often bandy around charge and counter charge about Brexit and racism on here and so it helps to have the numbers. And I put my hand up to being educated by them. I used to like the line from Wilf Sell - "Not all Leavers are racist but all racists are Leavers" - but after seeing the hard facts it was necessary to revise and soften this to "Only about a third of Leavers are racist and there were a relatively small number of racists who voted Remain."

    "Are openly, actively racist" perhaps :smile:
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.
    I’ve been watching a load of comedy to stay sane over the past year, Netflix in particular has done a great job of bringing standup to a global audience, there’s a few dozen one-hour specials up there now.

    The West Coast Americans all got into podcasting as California shut down, led by Rogan’s success. Listening to two or three comedians play off each other for a couple of hours can be very entertaining.

    Of the British comics, the standout for dealing with a crowd is still Jimmy Carr, who will be very rude indeed to anyone who interrupts his show, or who looks out of place in the first few rows. Australian Jim Jeffries is also very good at crowd work, as is American Anthony Jeselnik.

    There’s been a few hits and misses of how to do comedy during a pandemic - zoom comedy definitely doesn’t work, the late-night TV hosts working from home were also misses, drive-through cinema comedy (pioneered in the US by Bert Kreischer) worked quite well, and the best of the online formats has been the 30-jokes-a-minute YouTube monologues of Andrew Schulz - who was rewarded with a Netflix end-of-year show for his efforts.
    I've seen Jimmy Carr live so many times, he's brilliant but I do love his put downs to hecklers. One I remember from 2005 in Newcastle.

    Heckler: I've fucked your Mum

    Jimmy Carr: Well my Mum's 65, you're what 19, I'd say that's a great result for my Mum.

    He even cracked a 7/7 joke which even I gasped about and his response was brilliant.
    “If you want my comeback, you’ll have to scrape it from your mum’s teeth”
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 811

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    Not sure he counts as stand-up but Dave Gorman gives a good show. Also hat tip for Dara O'Brian.
    Dave Gorman GoogleWhack was I think the funniest live show I have seen. Since then, a bit like Mark Thomas, marriage, kids, shows about him looking at the Daily Mail comments section and people making idiots of themselves on twitter, it ain't so funny.
    Was a few years back (more than I'd care to remember) but Gorman did a show illustrated with slides chosen from thousands he'd bought from a junk shop. Bloody brilliant. But each to his own.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    Dara O'Briain is somebody I very much respect for his stand-up. Would pay good money/travel a fair distance to see.

    Ross Noble is wonderful (but I just have a nagging doubt about how much of his "improv" is pre-worked segments he shoe-horns in). That said, he had a ball with a former colleague, who he got to admit had fallen off the bridge over the River Kwai. Stunned silence. "I'll get back to you later...."

    And so he did. Tragically, no recording exists.....
  • isamisam Posts: 34,821
    Jonathan said:

    A lot of Trumpwashing going on today.

    Ask the mods if they can put a mark of some kind on the avatar of anyone who didn't slag him off enough
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 15,312
    edited January 7

    Vaccination data now available online:

    Who says public sector are too slow and bureautic....three hours to agree a sodding webpage. Some kid in their bedroom would have gone from idea to scraping the data and deploying the website in less time than that.
    I'd say it's large organisation syndrome rather than public sector per se. The retail bank I worked for would have taken just as long.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.
    I’ve been watching a load of comedy to stay sane over the past year, Netflix in particular has done a great job of bringing standup to a global audience, there’s a few dozen one-hour specials up there now.

    The West Coast Americans all got into podcasting as California shut down, led by Rogan’s success. Listening to two or three comedians play off each other for a couple of hours can be very entertaining.

    Of the British comics, the standout for dealing with a crowd is still Jimmy Carr, who will be very rude indeed to anyone who interrupts his show, or who looks out of place in the first few rows. Australian Jim Jeffries is also very good at crowd work, as is American Anthony Jeselnik.

    There’s been a few hits and misses of how to do comedy during a pandemic - zoom comedy definitely doesn’t work, the late-night TV hosts working from home were also misses, drive-through cinema comedy (pioneered in the US by Bert Kreischer) worked quite well, and the best of the online formats has been the 30-jokes-a-minute YouTube monologues of Andrew Schulz - who was rewarded with a Netflix end-of-year show for his efforts.
    I've seen Jimmy Carr live so many times, he's brilliant but I do love his put downs to hecklers. One I remember from 2005 in Newcastle.

    Heckler: I've fucked your Mum

    Jimmy Carr: Well my Mum's 65, you're what 19, I'd say that's a great result for my Mum.

    He even cracked a 7/7 joke which even I gasped about and his response was brilliant.
    “If you want my comeback, you’ll have to scrape it from your mum’s teeth”
  • felixfelix Posts: 11,539
    All sorts of folk do strange things in opinion polls and cast strange votes in General Elections. That includes voting for Jeremy Corbyn - who brought his party into disrepute through his pandering to anti-semitism. Perhaps some of them need reminding of this from time to time.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 26,009
    As for stand up now - there would be some excoriating stand ups I'm sure - it's not as though there hasn't been stuff to excoriate - but because of lockdown there are no venues, large or small, for them to express themselves.

    Which leaves the BBC or YouTube which is not really the same thing.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 3,730

    Vaccination data now available online:

    That's the same data that has been there all along - on the https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

    They have just added the numbers to some other pages as well.
    That data is ten days behind the current date, isn;t it?

    Didn't Bojo promise sceptical tory MPs day by day updates?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115
    eek said:

    Vaccination data now available online:

    That's the same data that has been there all along - on the https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

    They have just added the numbers to some other pages as well.
    If you've ever worked on a gov.uk website you would understand the work required to get any data added to a page.
    I had a colleague who worked in a consumer bank for a while. 6-8 months to get a change to the online banking website into production.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 2,668
    Sure. If Trump had won, yesterday's events wouldn't have happened because the perpetrators wouldn't have deemed them necessary. What's bad about that?

    (I am obviously being facetious, but is it reasonable to - without having much interest either way in US domestic affairs - prefer that Trumpism had burned itself out peacefully in eight years, rather than being rudely interrupted after four, in favour of a candidate almost everyone agrees wasn't particularly impressive, and at the head of a party whose attempts to reign in their own extremist elements do not appear to be going particularly well?)
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 583
    edited January 7

    Vaccination data now available online:

    Wish they'd get rid of that perpetually outdated R number. Malmesbury's R charts are far more useful.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 81,377
    edited January 7
    As I said before I would have been in the 22.5% of Tory members who would have voted for Biden, though I would still have voted Republican for Congress.

    Overall however while 46.9% of US voters voted for Trump, only 13% of UK voters wanted Trump to win and only 26% of Conservative voters wanted Trump to win (and I suspect many if not most of those voted UKIP in 2015)

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 6,003

    ConHome has been aptly described on here as 'continuity IDS'. Its core constituency is Kippers, BXPers, and Covidiots rather than Conservatives.

    It should really be called ConConHome.

    Sounds like you are accurately describing the modern Conservative Party under Boris Johnson. ConHome is probably more moderate than the membership. All reasons why I left
  • JSpringJSpring Posts: 76
    edited January 7
    felix said:

    All sorts of folk do strange things in opinion polls and cast strange votes in General Elections. That includes voting for Jeremy Corbyn - who brought his party into disrepute through his pandering to anti-semitism. Perhaps some of them need reminding of this from time to time.

    Only circa 40,000 people voted for Jeremy Corbyn in the past two general elections. Considerably more voted for him in two leadership elections.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 44,520
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest.
    It depends what you want from live comedy. You can still go to a club (well, not today, but you know) and get a good 15 minute set of observational humour that will make you laugh. You get comics who deal with hecklers brilliantly - Jimmy Carr for example.

    But people are increasingly looking for a full "show". Nobody's asking Dave Gorman or Stewart Lee to adapt his set to the room or banter with the audience, and nor should they. They're not doing some observational chat then saying "you've been a lovely audience, why not try the buffet?" They've got a beautifully structured show which takes you on a journey, has some laughs along the way, but also tells a wider story. Heckling is rare, and everyone thinks anyone who does it is a prick ruining the performance just as much as if they did it at the Old Vic - it just isn't what people are going there for these days in many cases.
    I went to an Amnesty bash at one of the big London theatres about three days after the start of Gulf War 1 in August 1990. The mood of the acts was wearily End of the World. Nobody was very much up for laughing.

    And then on came a still little-known comedian, who did a fabulous 15 minute set, based on the madness of the 24-hour rolling media in the first three days of that war. Fair to say, it was genius. We LOVED it. Huge ovation at the end.

    And thus, I was introduced to Eddie Izzard.

    I used to see Eddie Izzard at exactly that time although in the Soho venues and remember being in physical pain with laughter at his routines. Went to see him many times since around that time and for the subsequent few years.

    I forgive him everything he does now as even back then he was a Charlie Chaplin-type (as in Chaplin's political views) war is stupid let's love everyone kind of guy.
    I saw him around a similar time - he had a great routine about "A Londoner's reaction to a bomb at Oxford Circus" "Ok, I'll take the Jubilee to Bond Street, change to the Bakerloo line to Paddington.....and so on"
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.
    I’ve been watching a load of comedy to stay sane over the past year, Netflix in particular has done a great job of bringing standup to a global audience, there’s a few dozen one-hour specials up there now.

    The West Coast Americans all got into podcasting as California shut down, led by Rogan’s success. Listening to two or three comedians play off each other for a couple of hours can be very entertaining.

    Of the British comics, the standout for dealing with a crowd is still Jimmy Carr, who will be very rude indeed to anyone who interrupts his show, or who looks out of place in the first few rows. Australian Jim Jeffries is also very good at crowd work, as is American Anthony Jeselnik.

    There’s been a few hits and misses of how to do comedy during a pandemic - zoom comedy definitely doesn’t work, the late-night TV hosts working from home were also misses, drive-through cinema comedy (pioneered in the US by Bert Kreischer) worked quite well, and the best of the online formats has been the 30-jokes-a-minute YouTube monologues of Andrew Schulz - who was rewarded with a Netflix end-of-year show for his efforts.
    I've seen Jimmy Carr live so many times, he's brilliant but I do love his put downs to hecklers. One I remember from 2005 in Newcastle.

    Heckler: I've fucked your Mum

    Jimmy Carr: Well my Mum's 65, you're what 19, I'd say that's a great result for my Mum.

    He even cracked a 7/7 joke which even I gasped about and his response was brilliant.
    “If you want my comeback, you’ll have to scrape it from your mum’s teeth”
    That's another one.

    Another favourite.

    Heckler: “I’ve fucked your mum!”

    Jimmy Carr: “Ah, I was actually told you would be here tonight, by your mum while I was fucking her.

    At least, I think she was talking to me. I wasn’t the only one there.”
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,992

    Vaccination data now available online:

    Who says public sector are too slow and bureautic....three hours to agree a sodding webpage. Some kid in their bedroom would have gone from idea to scraping the data and deploying the website in less time than that.
    I'd say it's large organisation syndrome rather than public sector per se. The retail bank I worked for would have taken just as long.
    A bank? 3 hours to make an IT decision? Who is this lightning quick organisation you work for?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7

    Dara O'Briain is somebody I very much respect for his stand-up. Would pay good money/travel a fair distance to see.

    Ross Noble is wonderful (but I just have a nagging doubt about how much of his "improv" is pre-worked segments he shoe-horns in). That said, he had a ball with a former colleague, who he got to admit had fallen off the bridge over the River Kwai. Stunned silence. "I'll get back to you later...."

    And so he did. Tragically, no recording exists.....

    On Ross Noble, I watched two dates on the same tour...I think I counted 3 bits that were prepared that he shoe-horned in to both shows. Although one bit about 50 cent / air-raid siren, he got so carried away in one show, he came back out and said oh yeah that joke I wanted to tell you that I forget about. The rest was totally different.

    The best bit I heard him was when he asked a guy a few seats away from who he worked for and the guy was super nervous, sort of stuttered / stumbled and "Just Eat" came out as Justine....30 mins later we had this full created backstory of how this guy actually is forced labour in Justine's shed, is only allowed out once a week etc.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 3,730
    Jonathan said:

    A lot of Trumpwashing going on today.

    Also Martyrdom creation. The protestor shot dead was a photogenic long service forces veteran.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 15,312
    I posted on here a few days ago my confidence that the UK vaccine programme would be a success.

    My view is based partly on the UK success with testing. After a decidedly rocky start, I see we are now conducting close 500,000 tests per day.

    No reason why we cannot hit a similar daily target for vaccinations; it will take time to reach those levels though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115

    Vaccination data now available online:

    That's the same data that has been there all along - on the https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

    They have just added the numbers to some other pages as well.
    That data is ten days behind the current date, isn;t it?

    Didn't Bojo promise sceptical tory MPs day by day updates?
    They are currently on weekly updates, weeks running Monday-Sunday, data released Wednesday/Thursday

    The release date for the daily updates is supposed to be this coming Monday (11th).

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 26,009

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest.
    It depends what you want from live comedy. You can still go to a club (well, not today, but you know) and get a good 15 minute set of observational humour that will make you laugh. You get comics who deal with hecklers brilliantly - Jimmy Carr for example.

    But people are increasingly looking for a full "show". Nobody's asking Dave Gorman or Stewart Lee to adapt his set to the room or banter with the audience, and nor should they. They're not doing some observational chat then saying "you've been a lovely audience, why not try the buffet?" They've got a beautifully structured show which takes you on a journey, has some laughs along the way, but also tells a wider story. Heckling is rare, and everyone thinks anyone who does it is a prick ruining the performance just as much as if they did it at the Old Vic - it just isn't what people are going there for these days in many cases.
    I went to an Amnesty bash at one of the big London theatres about three days after the start of Gulf War 1 in August 1990. The mood of the acts was wearily End of the World. Nobody was very much up for laughing.

    And then on came a still little-known comedian, who did a fabulous 15 minute set, based on the madness of the 24-hour rolling media in the first three days of that war. Fair to say, it was genius. We LOVED it. Huge ovation at the end.

    And thus, I was introduced to Eddie Izzard.

    I used to see Eddie Izzard at exactly that time although in the Soho venues and remember being in physical pain with laughter at his routines. Went to see him many times since around that time and for the subsequent few years.

    I forgive him everything he does now as even back then he was a Charlie Chaplin-type (as in Chaplin's political views) war is stupid let's love everyone kind of guy.
    I saw him around a similar time - he had a great routine about "A Londoner's reaction to a bomb at Oxford Circus" "Ok, I'll take the Jubilee to Bond Street, change to the Bakerloo line to Paddington.....and so on"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    Some of us have been saying this for errhhh 9 months. We got the 2nd wave because of reseeding from Spain.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 28,312
    SARS-CoV-2 RBD in vitro evolution follows contagious mutation spread, yet generates an able infection inhibitor
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.06.425392v1.full.pdf
    Abstract
    SARS-CoV-2 is constantly evolving, with more contagious mutations spreading rapidly. Using in vitro evolution to affinity maturate the receptor-binding domain (RBD) of the spike protein towards ACE2, resulted in the more contagious mutations, S477N, E484K, and N501Y to be among the first selected. This includes the British and South-African variants. Plotting the binding affinity to ACE2 of selected RBD mutations against their incidence in the population shows a strong correlation between the two. Further in vitro evolution enhancing binding by 600- fold provides guidelines towards potentially new evolving mutations with even higher infectivity. Yet, the high-affinity RBD is also an efficient drug, inhibiting SARS-CoV-2 infection. The 2.9Å Cryo-EM structure of the high-affinity complex, including all rapidly spreading mutations provides structural basis for future drug development...

    ...While natural virus selection is not as efficient as in vitro selection, the gained information on the more critical mutations can be used as a tool to identify emerging mutations. We hypothesize that E484R will continue to spread and will become more dominant, especially in combination with N501Y. In contrast, we do not expect the rapid spread of S494P. Importantly, the mutation Q498R appeared in the library B4 after the incorporation of Tyr at position 501. This combination dramatically increased the affinity below 100 pM as is shown by the difference between RBD-32 and RBD-44 (Table 1). Notably, the wild-type RBD codon at position 498 is CAA, allowing for direct change to arginine codon CGA. R498 was not sampled yet by the virus (Fig. 2A) but its appearance should be carefully monitored. Moreover, R498 is located in a hypervariable location of the RBD (Fig. S11), which makes its appearance more plausible....

    ...An intriguing question is whether the spreading of the tighter binding SARS-CoV-2 variants in humans is accidental. From the similarity to yeast display selection, where stringent conditions are used, one may hypothesize that stringent selection is also driving the rapid spread of these mutations. Face masks of low quality (which are by far the most abundant) would provide such selection conditions, as they reduce exhaled viral titers, given tighter binding variants an advantage over WT to spread rapidly in the population (as a result of R0 of mutated viruses being >1, while <1 for WT viruses). This should be urgently investigated, as one may consider the mandatory use of higher quality face-masks, which will reduce viral titer to bellow infection levels (as indeed seen with medical personal who use such masks) and stop spreading these tighter binding virus mutations.</i>
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 11,379
    It looks like some minor Trump lackies have decided to jump just as the ship reaches the waterline.

    Not sure how much reputation they can salvage at this point.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 17,156
    In fact, rottenborough, you have been one of the few who did not need the explicitly fascist shenanigans since 3 Nov to see the truth about Donald Trump. So well done on that.
  • felixfelix Posts: 11,539
    JSpring said:

    felix said:

    All sorts of folk do strange things in opinion polls and cast strange votes in General Elections. That includes voting for Jeremy Corbyn - who brought his party into disrepute through his pandering to anti-semitism. Perhaps some of them need reminding of this from time to time.

    Only circa 40,000 people voted for Jeremy Corbyn in the past two general elections. Considerably more voted for him in two leadership elections.
    Zero people from Con Home, the Conservative party or Conservative voters have ever voted for Trump unless possibly they are citizens of the USA. Your point being?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 15,312
    edited January 7
    Alistair said:

    Vaccination data now available online:

    Who says public sector are too slow and bureautic....three hours to agree a sodding webpage. Some kid in their bedroom would have gone from idea to scraping the data and deploying the website in less time than that.
    I'd say it's large organisation syndrome rather than public sector per se. The retail bank I worked for would have taken just as long.
    A bank? 3 hours to make an IT decision? Who is this lightning quick organisation you work for?
    Yeah, I kind of feared that sort of response...

    This seems to be a web-page design decision, new information being added - not an IT decision really, rather a business decision with IT input. Those sorts of changes often took far longer than they should do. I'm not defending it, just reporting my experience.

    Of course IT decisions could be, and were, made very much quicker in different circs., weighing up the balance of risk of disruption versus impact of delay.

    PS I retired from said bank 3 years ago. I'm not going to say which one it is but it's definitely got the best IT track record.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    Scott_xP said:

    It looks like some minor Trump lackies have decided to jump just as the ship reaches the waterline.

    Not sure how much reputation they can salvage at this point.

    A nice Titanic-branded lilo?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 6,670
    Personally I don't see the fascination with putting down hecklers.

    I'd rather just listen to the funny comedian tell jokes.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 35,791

    These things also differ culturally. I cannot stand the combative US club comic (French & Saunders among others do great parodies of the sort of thing). But they've got a finely honed skill, you have to give them that.

    That was a brilliant sketch. "Get out of the pool!"
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 15,312
    Nigelb said:

    SARS-CoV-2 RBD in vitro evolution follows contagious mutation spread, yet generates an able infection inhibitor
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.06.425392v1.full.pdf
    Abstract
    SARS-CoV-2 is constantly evolving, with more contagious mutations spreading rapidly. Using in vitro evolution to affinity maturate the receptor-binding domain (RBD) of the spike protein towards ACE2, resulted in the more contagious mutations, S477N, E484K, and N501Y to be among the first selected. This includes the British and South-African variants. Plotting the binding affinity to ACE2 of selected RBD mutations against their incidence in the population shows a strong correlation between the two. Further in vitro evolution enhancing binding by 600- fold provides guidelines towards potentially new evolving mutations with even higher infectivity. Yet, the high-affinity RBD is also an efficient drug, inhibiting SARS-CoV-2 infection. The 2.9Å Cryo-EM structure of the high-affinity complex, including all rapidly spreading mutations provides structural basis for future drug development...

    ...While natural virus selection is not as efficient as in vitro selection, the gained information on the more critical mutations can be used as a tool to identify emerging mutations. We hypothesize that E484R will continue to spread and will become more dominant, especially in combination with N501Y. In contrast, we do not expect the rapid spread of S494P. Importantly, the mutation Q498R appeared in the library B4 after the incorporation of Tyr at position 501. This combination dramatically increased the affinity below 100 pM as is shown by the difference between RBD-32 and RBD-44 (Table 1). Notably, the wild-type RBD codon at position 498 is CAA, allowing for direct change to arginine codon CGA. R498 was not sampled yet by the virus (Fig. 2A) but its appearance should be carefully monitored. Moreover, R498 is located in a hypervariable location of the RBD (Fig. S11), which makes its appearance more plausible....

    ...An intriguing question is whether the spreading of the tighter binding SARS-CoV-2 variants in humans is accidental. From the similarity to yeast display selection, where stringent conditions are used, one may hypothesize that stringent selection is also driving the rapid spread of these mutations. Face masks of low quality (which are by far the most abundant) would provide such selection conditions, as they reduce exhaled viral titers, given tighter binding variants an advantage over WT to spread rapidly in the population (as a result of R0 of mutated viruses being >1, while <1 for WT viruses). This should be urgently investigated, as one may consider the mandatory use of higher quality face-masks, which will reduce viral titer to bellow infection levels (as indeed seen with medical personal who use such masks) and stop spreading these tighter binding virus mutations.</i>

    Any chance of a lay person's summary?
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 2,105

    I posted on here a few days ago my confidence that the UK vaccine programme would be a success.

    My view is based partly on the UK success with testing. After a decidedly rocky start, I see we are now conducting close 500,000 tests per day.

    No reason why we cannot hit a similar daily target for vaccinations; it will take time to reach those levels though.

    The testing will include the same people being tested again and again - health service workers, care home workers etc.
    Vaccination will involve finding and vaccinating different people on every occasion.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 54,683
    Mr. Eagles, I think it was from the same show that the funniest moment was when he asked two audience members if they were dating they gave different answers.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 6,670
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    I saw Stewart Lee a few years ago, he was very funny. I've not seen Kevin Bridges live but the bits of his shows I've seen on YouTube etc look good.
    Nipping in to share with this great site full of great people with impeccable taste one of Lee's greatest hits. If he were Pulp this would be Common People. I know you've seen it but it will slay anybody who hasn't -

    Honestly I don't really get it... everyone (left wing) tells me how funny Stewart Lee is and how clever he is... but he's merely moderately amusing to me.

    When I saw him live, he had absolute mastery over the audience, but I didn't actually spend that much time laughing.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 15,312
    edited January 7

    Some of us have been saying this for errhhh 9 months. We got the 2nd wave because of reseeding from Spain.
    I support border testing and quarantine but I am sure we would have experienced a wave 2 regardless, albeit at potentially lower levels.

    What is your evidence of re-seeding from Spain (as opposed to say, schools and unis opening again)?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    rkrkrk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    I saw Stewart Lee a few years ago, he was very funny. I've not seen Kevin Bridges live but the bits of his shows I've seen on YouTube etc look good.
    Nipping in to share with this great site full of great people with impeccable taste one of Lee's greatest hits. If he were Pulp this would be Common People. I know you've seen it but it will slay anybody who hasn't -

    Honestly I don't really get it... everyone (left wing) tells me how funny Stewart Lee is and how clever he is... but he's merely moderately amusing to me.

    When I saw him live, he had absolute mastery over the audience, but I didn't actually spend that much time laughing.
    Personally, I don't really get him either. It isn't really even a "I don't agree with his politics" type thing either, as stated down thread, I really enjoyed many of Mark Thomas shows and I even less in common with him politically.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 11,379
    rkrkrk said:

    Personally I don't see the fascination with putting down hecklers.

    I'd rather just listen to the funny comedian tell jokes.

    Billy Conolly tells of a prolonged bout with someone yelling from the audience. Turns out the guy had slipped and hurt himself and was screaming in agony for 20 minutes
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7

    Some of us have been saying this for errhhh 9 months. We got the 2nd wave because of reseeding from Spain.
    I support border testing and quarantine but I am sure we would have experienced a wave 2 regardless, albeit at potentially lower levels.

    What is your evidence of re-seeding from Spain (as opposed to say, schools and unis opening again)?
    We have done this previously. I can't be bothered to dig out the academic papers, but it has been shown that the second wave came from a mutated form that appears to have originated on a Spanish Farm, spread to the beach resorts, and that was then sent around Europe via returning holiday makers.

    This was established in a similar way to how we know about Cockney COVID and where it is popping up.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 26,009
    rkrkrk said:

    Personally I don't see the fascination with putting down hecklers.

    I'd rather just listen to the funny comedian tell jokes.

    It could be an art form. The Tunnel Club, run by Malcolm Hardee (now sadly deceased) was the place to be at that time (mid-'80s).
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,479

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:



    To be fair to Jo Brand (yes, I know) it was a pre-recorded programme, so it was up to the editor which jokes made the cut and which stayed between the live audience and the participants.

    Anyone who’s ever attended a recording of HIGNFY or Mock The Week knows that there’s an awful lot of well-over-the-line jokes told in these settings, that no-one expects to actually be aired.

    I prefer Jo Brand to the endless minor public school, Oxbridge wankers doing what passes for comedy on R4. And, of course, I don't think Jo was recommending it as a course of action. She was looking for a gag & did not think.

    There is a long tradition of throwing flour or eggs or rotting vegetables as political protest.

    And, of course, a well-aimed egg can cheer the hearts of millions.

    But, even joking about throwing acid takes the cheeriness away.
    Very true. It was in poor taste and landed badly, but that’s what comedians do. I’m not sure she ever expected it to air, but the editors and the BBC thought it was fine.

    Which tells us a lot more about the BBC, than it does about the comedian.

    Frankie Boyle’s infamous “Princess Diana Joke” on MTW wasn’t seen for several years after it was recorded, was finally released only on an 18-rated outtakes DVD, never shown on TV.
    Serious question...Who is a really good stand-up these days? That has the material, can judge a room, take on the hecklers etc? So many of the regulars on these panel shows are very poor live comedians.

    The best I have seen in the past few years is Ross Noble, but because so much of it is improv, he can also miss badly as well. Far too many that were ok, have a bit like Scott n Paste, been driven made by Brexit and can only do Brexit is shit, Orange man bad stuff, and you can feel it in the audience people don't want that. Its divisive and you can only hear so many ways of they are shit jokes before you have heard them all.

    I saw Mark Watson 18 months ago, and he had at least the sense to have twigged nobody wants that and came out and said you guys pay your money to have a night off from the real world, so I am not doing anything fights over Brexit, instead this show is all about something much more depressing my divorce.

    I used to like Mark Thomas live, but how he is much older, he doesn't really have the tales to tell about all his experiences on joining crazies on a protest. His show about his wife beating dad who loved opera and died a horrible death although not his funniest work, was incredibly moving.
    Maybe Trump and Brexit have combined to kill stand-up? Certainly, Covid isn't helping. Does ANYBODY talk about anything other than Covid these days? Jeez, it's as well we are all locked away - when any two people meet, it is all they talk about for the first twenty minutes. Conversation is just so bloody DULL in 2021....
    Makes a change from personal medical conditions pills and trips to the doctor.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 2,119
    edited January 7
    Nigelb said:

    SARS-CoV-2 RBD in vitro evolution follows contagious mutation spread, yet generates an able infection inhibitor
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.06.425392v1.full.pdf
    Abstract
    SARS-CoV-2 is constantly evolving, with more contagious mutations spreading rapidly. Using in vitro evolution to affinity maturate the receptor-binding domain (RBD) of the spike protein towards ACE2, resulted in the more contagious mutations, S477N, E484K, and N501Y to be among the first selected. This includes the British and South-African variants. Plotting the binding affinity to ACE2 of selected RBD mutations against their incidence in the population shows a strong correlation between the two. Further in vitro evolution enhancing binding by 600- fold provides guidelines towards potentially new evolving mutations with even higher infectivity. Yet, the high-affinity RBD is also an efficient drug, inhibiting SARS-CoV-2 infection. The 2.9Å Cryo-EM structure of the high-affinity complex, including all rapidly spreading mutations provides structural basis for future drug development...

    ...While natural virus selection is not as efficient as in vitro selection, the gained information on the more critical mutations can be used as a tool to identify emerging mutations. We hypothesize that E484R will continue to spread and will become more dominant, especially in combination with N501Y. In contrast, we do not expect the rapid spread of S494P. Importantly, the mutation Q498R appeared in the library B4 after the incorporation of Tyr at position 501. This combination dramatically increased the affinity below 100 pM as is shown by the difference between RBD-32 and RBD-44 (Table 1). Notably, the wild-type RBD codon at position 498 is CAA, allowing for direct change to arginine codon CGA. R498 was not sampled yet by the virus (Fig. 2A) but its appearance should be carefully monitored. Moreover, R498 is located in a hypervariable location of the RBD (Fig. S11), which makes its appearance more plausible....

    ...An intriguing question is whether the spreading of the tighter binding SARS-CoV-2 variants in humans is accidental. From the similarity to yeast display selection, where stringent conditions are used, one may hypothesize that stringent selection is also driving the rapid spread of these mutations. Face masks of low quality (which are by far the most abundant) would provide such selection conditions, as they reduce exhaled viral titers, given tighter binding variants an advantage over WT to spread rapidly in the population (as a result of R0 of mutated viruses being >1, while <1 for WT viruses). This should be urgently investigated, as one may consider the mandatory use of higher quality face-masks, which will reduce viral titer to bellow infection levels (as indeed seen with medical personal who use such masks) and stop spreading these tighter binding virus mutations.</i>

    I hope they are biosafety-ing the shit out of this type of research. Of course it is extremely useful for both understanding infectivity and in providing directions for future pharma development, but its purpose is to develop more infectious strains of the virus more quickly than natural evolution does (hence its name, 'gain of function' research).

    I sincerely hope this was done in a BSL4 lab and only after development of extremely stringent risk management protocols, with personnel not only trained in the appropriate safety protocols, but given refresher courses before they started on the research.

    PS It is extremely worrying that this type of research paper has no discussion of the biosafety aspects - any acknowledgement of the risks, methods used to minimize them, or controls taken to contain any of the in vitro evolved strains. As a reviewer, I'd reject this paper out of hand until those issues were remedied.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 1,536

    I posted on here a few days ago my confidence that the UK vaccine programme would be a success.

    My view is based partly on the UK success with testing. After a decidedly rocky start, I see we are now conducting close 500,000 tests per day.

    No reason why we cannot hit a similar daily target for vaccinations; it will take time to reach those levels though.

    The testing will include the same people being tested again and again - health service workers, care home workers etc.
    Vaccination will involve finding and vaccinating different people on every occasion.
    Within a month we will be doing over a million per day
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