Are these Republican politicians mad enough to actually believe that the election was stolen and they can overturn it? Or are they conniving and mad enough to know it is rubbish but think they can actually overturn it anyway?
Either way they seem to have utterly lost the plot. And all for a man who would stab them in the back at a second's notice if he thought it would serve his ends.
Yes agree totally. Been watching it live on CNN. Really brings it home to you how fragile democracy can be, without the correct checks and balances in place, against a dictator. History shows as in Germany after ww1 how democracy can change so quickly. Hope we do not ever have to learn those lessons again. Relying on good people to do the correct thing is not enough. I believe the UK should strengthen an official constitution to help prevent it ever happening here.
The US is demonstrating that a Constitution does not safeguard democracy.
The voters and politicians do.
In the UK, 98%+ of the population will accept the result of the next election. No MPs (or ex MPs) will be claiming the election was stolen or demanding the Houses of Parliament be stormed.
In the US.....
Doesn’t help of course that the US has a truly rubbish constitution, but everyone has a positively erotic devotion to it so it can’t be changed.
What this lot need is a ceremonial leader who stays in place regardless of electoral cycles so they don't have to get really mad every few years about who rules, and just get made about grubby little legislators instead.
Sounds like the perfect job for Trump. When he eventually chokes on a BigMac the role can be passed down to whomever of Don Jr/Eric/Ivanka survives the war of succession.
Wowsers. McConnell has decided its time to take the GOP back from the Trump family. This is why the Donald has booked the flight to Scotland - get the hell out of dodge whilst still possible
Polls show 75% of GOP voters think the election was stolen. Mitch & Co do not have the numbers. The whole point of this is for the masses of the repubs to see the 'betrayal' in the flesh. That's why Trump is doing this, probably.
The problem is very, very far from 75% of GOP congressional representatives think the election was stolen. Therein presages the massive internal strife ahead for the Republican Party.
Indeed. And today you can see it incredibly starkly.
Trump's reaction to losing the election is a bit like some pro-Europeans reaction to losing the 2016 Referendum.
If he'd put as much effort into actually winning the election as he has put into overturning it then he might have actually won the election in the first place.
That's a stupid point on both counts. Remainers accepted they lost the 2016 referendum, and Trump campaigned very hard to win the election.
Reading this forum there is scant evidence remainers have accepted they lost in 2016
You always say stuff like this without basis. Just like you pretend that this forum is full of labour supporters when its actually quite balanced.
There is one particular poster who tweets daily anti brexit comments as he has not accepted brexit and there are others in the same vain
Actually it seems there is a good contingent of lib dems on here who will never accept brexit
Scott, like me can claim the Bill Cash Amendment.
The UK is still a democracy, things change. My ghost will be cheering on the day we join a Federal United States of Europe.
By the way it's all kicking off in DC.
Only just a democracy, when we can be confined to our homes for up to three months by law, and a parliamentary vote (after the law is enacted) is only granted as some kind of favour to the government party’s own backbenchers.
You can be a democracy without being a free society, as we're currently proving.
Sometimes the people make a democratic decision to be protected/enslaved according to what your opinions are.
Very good letter by the Vice President, though some Trumpites are already calling him a traitor on twitter so it may not do his 2024 nomination chances a great deal of good.
Get on Cruz then who will lodge an objection to the casting of the EC votes on behalf of Trump.
Any GOP Senator who fails to lodge an objection will have a black mark against them ahead of 2024 with the GOP base so can likely be ruled out of the nomination battle and they or any GOP Representative who fails to object will also face a Trumpite primary challenge when next up for re election
That's exactly what Joe McCarthy thought - before he went splat . . .
Trump's reaction to losing the election is a bit like some pro-Europeans reaction to losing the 2016 Referendum.
If he'd put as much effort into actually winning the election as he has put into overturning it then he might have actually won the election in the first place.
That's a stupid point on both counts. Remainers accepted they lost the 2016 referendum, and Trump campaigned very hard to win the election.
Reading this forum there is scant evidence remainers have accepted they lost in 2016
You always say stuff like this without basis. Just like you pretend that this forum is full of labour supporters when its actually quite balanced.
There is one particular poster who tweets daily anti brexit comments as he has not accepted brexit and there are others in the same vain
Actually it seems there is a good contingent of lib dems on here who will never accept brexit
Scott, like me can claim the Bill Cash Amendment.
The UK is still a democracy, things change. My ghost will be cheering on the day we join a Federal United States of Europe.
By the way it's all kicking off in DC.
Only just a democracy, when we can be confined to our homes for up to three months by law, and a parliamentary vote (after the law is enacted) is only granted as some kind of favour to the government party’s own backbenchers.
I don't follow how that is 'only just' a democracy since it is still done by the elected representatives in accordance with the law, which can be controlled if it wishes by Parliament. It seems to be a comment about the extent of executive and legislative authority, not that it is in any way undemocratic.
Does this congress session go as long as needed regardless of how many objections and 2 hour debates, or do they at some point give in and call it a day and come back tomorrow etc.?
If they objected to every state they could drag it out to the 20th, in which case Pelosi gets to decide whether she wants to be Acting President for a few days.
Although presumably she'd have to resign her House Seat? There's also a constitutional case to be had on whether Congress critters should be on the succession list in the first place. Same issues for the Senate Pro Temp, which I guess would still be McConnell.
So it might actually be Pompeo getting the gig for a bit.
Wowsers. McConnell has decided its time to take the GOP back from the Trump family. This is why the Donald has booked the flight to Scotland - get the hell out of dodge whilst still possible
Polls show 75% of GOP voters think the election was stolen. Mitch & Co do not have the numbers. The whole point of this is for the masses of the repubs to see the 'betrayal' in the flesh. That's why Trump is doing this, probably.
Methinks the real questions re: the 75% figure are: a) intensity; and b) duration.
Personally think that a) is a mile wide but only an inch deep (except for true nutbags) and that b) is fleeting.
The UK is no longer in the top 10 for deaths per capita. It's been overtaken by countries like Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Liechtenstein and North Macedonia.
Are these Republican politicians mad enough to actually believe that the election was stolen and they can overturn it? Or are they conniving and mad enough to know it is rubbish but think they can actually overturn it anyway?
Either way they seem to have utterly lost the plot. And all for a man who would stab them in the back at a second's notice if he thought it would serve his ends.
Yes agree totally. Been watching it live on CNN. Really brings it home to you how fragile democracy can be, without the correct checks and balances in place, against a dictator. History shows as in Germany after ww1 how democracy can change so quickly. Hope we do not ever have to learn those lessons again. Relying on good people to do the correct thing is not enough. I believe the UK should strengthen an official constitution to help prevent it ever happening here.
The US is demonstrating that a Constitution does not safeguard democracy.
The voters and politicians do.
It's not just the US. More than a hundred countries around the world have Constitutions but aren't remotely describable as democracies.
Not trying very hard, are they? The Proud Boy threat looks increasingly all mouth and no trousers, though I suppose they can claim to have been emasculated by the firearms ban.
The UK is no longer in the top 10 for deaths per capita. It's been overtaken by countries like Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Liechtenstein and North Macedonia.
For those of us who believe our OWN government have blackballed us from the best cultural and trade club in the world that is not going to happen. He and his rotten government can just fuck off.
It's a little bit more than a "cultural and trade club".
CNN definitely won't be calling this a mostly peaceful protest.
What a state the US is in. In Portland and Seattle, the lefties are still smashing the place up on a regular basis and on the right we have all these Trump nutters wiped up into a frenzy storming buildings. And, lets hope that the decision not to press charges against the officers in Jacob Blake shooting doesn't set off another round of violence / looting.
Not trying very hard, are they? The Proud Boy threat looks increasingly all mouth and no trousers, though I suppose they can claim to have been emasculated by the firearms ban.
For those of us who believe our OWN government have blackballed us from the best cultural and trade club in the world that is not going to happen. He and his rotten government can just fuck off.
Lol Cruz wants a commission. Is he channeling his inner Ed Miliband ?
Is he about to start eating a post-speech bacon butty?
Its a great argument though. "We have ramped up enough bullshit allegations that half the country thinks the election is invalid. So we need to park the result and hold an enquiry into our bullshit otherwise the entire system is belittled."
Now Cruz. Looks like every villain from every western film we’ve ever seen.
Who advised him to grow that beard? It just doesn’t work.
After his near-political-death experience narrowing winning against Beto O'Rourke in 2018, he wanted to change his image - as a totally nasty piece of shit - so grew the beard, and also shut his mouth for an extended period.
Because many of the votes he lost were NOT from folks who agreed with B0'R's politics, but rather they liked his personality. Whereas MANY who agree with Cruz on politics cannot stand his excuse for a personality.
Lol Cruz wants a commission. Is he channeling his inner Ed Miliband ?
Is he about to start eating a post-speech bacon butty?
Its a great argument though. "We have ramped up enough bullshit allegations that half the country thinks the election is invalid. So we need to park the result and hold an enquiry into our bullshit otherwise the entire system is belittled."
People buy that sort of thing all the time, though this is a very high stakes example. No smoke without fire and all that. You see with attempts to delay 5G and phone masts, rumours of impropriety and, now, presidential elections - a lot of people are concerned, therefore there might be something to it and we should/should not do X.
The UK is no longer in the top 10 for deaths per capita. It's been overtaken by countries like Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Liechtenstein and North Macedonia.
The UK is no longer in the top 10 for deaths per capita. It's been overtaken by countries like Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Liechtenstein and North Macedonia.
Those figures need to be taken with a very LARGE pinch of salt. Only a week ago the Russian statistical agency attributed another 130,000 excess deaths to COVID-19. Similar issues apply to the figures from a lot of other countries, so things are a lot worse in a lot of other countries than they may seem from offical COVID-19 tallies.
With actual protestors actually trying to bust their way into the Capitol to prevent registration of election results, perhaps the BBC should amend it's headline on the other US political story.
"Democrats poised to seize control of US Senate" might not be the best phrasing given what is going on outside the building.
Lol Cruz wants a commission. Is he channeling his inner Ed Miliband ?
Is he about to start eating a post-speech bacon butty?
Its a great argument though. "We have ramped up enough bullshit allegations that half the country thinks the election is invalid. So we need to park the result and hold an enquiry into our bullshit otherwise the entire system is belittled."
Personally think that Ted Cruz his human slime. But MUST defend him against your slander, that he would eat a "bacon butty."
Because NO true American, even an illegal alien Cruz, would EVER be caught eating a bacon butty. Mostly because we have NO CLUE what you are talking about - but have been warned against the dangers of "Spotted Dick" and other British "foods" often just by their disgusting names!
The increasing conflict between people with different political views in the US at the moment isn't a cause for amusement IMO.
Well said.
It really isn't
America is degenerating into a dreadful political polarisation that's been about three decades in the making. That's only possible with the absurd, buffoonish spectacle of figures like Cruz, though.
Are these Republican politicians mad enough to actually believe that the election was stolen and they can overturn it? Or are they conniving and mad enough to know it is rubbish but think they can actually overturn it anyway?
Either way they seem to have utterly lost the plot. And all for a man who would stab them in the back at a second's notice if he thought it would serve his ends.
Yes agree totally. Been watching it live on CNN. Really brings it home to you how fragile democracy can be, without the correct checks and balances in place, against a dictator. History shows as in Germany after ww1 how democracy can change so quickly. Hope we do not ever have to learn those lessons again. Relying on good people to do the correct thing is not enough. I believe the UK should strengthen an official constitution to help prevent it ever happening here.
The US is demonstrating that a Constitution does not safeguard democracy.
The voters and politicians do.
It's not just the US. More than a hundred countries around the world have Constitutions but aren't remotely describable as democracies.
While we don't, and are.
I grew up hearing the Useful Idiots parroting the line that the Constitution of the Soviet Union proved they had better human rights than the West.
Lol Cruz wants a commission. Is he channeling his inner Ed Miliband ?
Is he about to start eating a post-speech bacon butty?
Its a great argument though. "We have ramped up enough bullshit allegations that half the country thinks the election is invalid. So we need to park the result and hold an enquiry into our bullshit otherwise the entire system is belittled."
Personally think that Ted Cruz his human slime. But MUST defend him against your slander, that he would eat a "bacon butty."
Because NO true American, even an illegal alien Cruz, would EVER be caught eating a bacon butty. Mostly because we have NO CLUE what you are talking about - but have been warned against the dangers of "Spotted Dick" and other British "foods" often just by their disgusting names!
They’re probably not people who would fry up a couple of faggots for breakfast, for sure. Well, not many of them anyway.
It looks like he is just rehiring the blokes he knew from Obama’s presidency. My concern is this is going to be a very lacklustre 4 years when there is a lot that needs to be done to fix America and the world
And you diagnose that on the basis of this appointment ? Wait to see who else gets picked at Justice.
And forgive me the unworthy thought that you’d be complaining of a far left takeover had it been anyone less centrist.
Now Cruz. Looks like every villain from every western film we’ve ever seen.
The flabby, slightly camp one who used the likes of Jack Palance to do the dirty work.
Probably imagines himself to be hard enough to be a lead in Cut-throats Nine. Hell yes, he's tough enough.
I believe that some US clothing outlets make a killing with the survivalist gun nuts by putting 'tactical' in the description - tactical chinos, tactical pyjamas etc. Cruz looks like he'd definitely have tactical pjs.
I once had a summer job in the Royal Scottish Academy as a security guard during the festival. One afternoon Jack Palance came in for the show, and after backing away from a painting to get a better look he knocked over an old lady; he was hugely embarrassed and apologetic (and she was fine), but it was still one of the best things I've ever seen.
It's a very stark and powerfully made point, and needed to be said.
That it seems to be entirely out of character with how he conducts himself does undercut his seeming sincerity somewhat, but better you stop an inch before the cliff's edge than plough on over it in a misguided attempt to avoid looking like a weakling. Ted.
Now Cruz. Looks like every villain from every western film we’ve ever seen.
The flabby, slightly camp one who used the likes of Jack Palance to do the dirty work.
Probably imagines himself to be hard enough to be a lead in Cut-throats Nine. Hell yes, he's tough enough.
I believe that some US clothing outlets make a killing with the survivalist gun nuts by putting 'tactical' in the description - tactical chinos, tactical pyjamas etc. Cruz looks like he'd definitely have tactical pjs.
I once had a summer job in the Royal Scottish Academy as a security guard during the festival. One afternoon Jack Palance came in for the show, and after backing away from a painting to get a better look he knocked over an old lady; he was hugely embarrassed and apologetic (and she was fine), but it was still one of the best things I've ever seen.
Re: un-civil turmoil in Portland and Seattle, haven't been to PDX in a long time, but understand that while downtown is still very sad scene, the number of actual protests and protesters is quite low now, and has been that way for month.
As for Seattle, my own fair city, notion that massive & counterproductive protests are still with us is a Trumpsky fantasy. Every once in a while, some group will decide to have a "rally" or a "march" which turns out to be . . ., noting much.
Mainly because folks figured out, that being manipulated by Trumpsky's federal agents AND agents provacateur was COUNTERPRODUCTIVE indeed directly harmful to the true cause of equality and justice.
Are these Republican politicians mad enough to actually believe that the election was stolen and they can overturn it? Or are they conniving and mad enough to know it is rubbish but think they can actually overturn it anyway?
Either way they seem to have utterly lost the plot. And all for a man who would stab them in the back at a second's notice if he thought it would serve his ends.
Yes agree totally. Been watching it live on CNN. Really brings it home to you how fragile democracy can be, without the correct checks and balances in place, against a dictator. History shows as in Germany after ww1 how democracy can change so quickly. Hope we do not ever have to learn those lessons again. Relying on good people to do the correct thing is not enough. I believe the UK should strengthen an official constitution to help prevent it ever happening here.
The US is demonstrating that a Constitution does not safeguard democracy.
The voters and politicians do.
It's not just the US. More than a hundred countries around the world have Constitutions but aren't remotely describable as democracies.
While we don't, and are.
I grew up hearing the Useful Idiots parroting the line that the Constitution of the Soviet Union proved they had better human rights than the West.
Well, it might have done, if the government hadn’t ignored it.
For McConnell's career, all the wrong people are praising his speech.
He’s 78 years old and has four years left on his tenure. The Republicans are about to lose the Senate and he won’t necessarily want to continue as minority leader.
There must be a chance that after making their point and being roasted on Arizona, they don’t go through the full protest process on the other states (between two and five more, depending). Especially given the disorder outside.
For McConnell's career, all the wrong people are praising his speech.
McConnell has just won re-election to another 6-year Senate term, and was re-elected Republican leader without opposition. His career is in VERY good shape, he would tell you IF he cared a fig about what's is said about him in the Great Blogosphere.
Comments
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1346867565977620482
Sometimes the people make a democratic decision to be protected/enslaved according to what your opinions are.
Although presumably she'd have to resign her House Seat? There's also a constitutional case to be had on whether Congress critters should be on the succession list in the first place. Same issues for the Senate Pro Temp, which I guess would still be McConnell.
So it might actually be Pompeo getting the gig for a bit.
Personally think that a) is a mile wide but only an inch deep (except for true nutbags) and that b) is fleeting.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
While we don't, and are.
As for her role in defeating Loeffler and Purdue, well am quite sure he's glad that they ALSO lost.
Cause misery loves company - and Donald Trumpsky is the most miserable excuse for a human being
https://twitter.com/curaffairs/status/1346891082186039298?s=19
Its a great argument though. "We have ramped up enough bullshit allegations that half the country thinks the election is invalid. So we need to park the result and hold an enquiry into our bullshit otherwise the entire system is belittled."
Because many of the votes he lost were NOT from folks who agreed with B0'R's politics, but rather they liked his personality. Whereas MANY who agree with Cruz on politics cannot stand his excuse for a personality.
Except that Snidely wasn't a fat barrel of lard. AND had his tender side.
It really isn't
"Democrats poised to seize control of US Senate" might not be the best phrasing given what is going on outside the building.
Because NO true American, even an illegal alien Cruz, would EVER be caught eating a bacon butty. Mostly because we have NO CLUE what you are talking about - but have been warned against the dangers of "Spotted Dick" and other British "foods" often just by their disgusting names!
I for one would find dealing with things I dislike much harder without making light of it.
Wait to see who else gets picked at Justice.
And forgive me the unworthy thought that you’d be complaining of a far left takeover had it been anyone less centrist.
I once had a summer job in the Royal Scottish Academy as a security guard during the festival. One afternoon Jack Palance came in for the show, and after backing away from a painting to get a better look he knocked over an old lady; he was hugely embarrassed and apologetic (and she was fine), but it was still one of the best things I've ever seen.
That it seems to be entirely out of character with how he conducts himself does undercut his seeming sincerity somewhat, but better you stop an inch before the cliff's edge than plough on over it in a misguided attempt to avoid looking like a weakling. Ted.
https://www.amazon.com/Combat-One-Tactical-Skin-Care/dp/B06XFCYK5H
In fairness there's a lot of products which are made more feminine or masculine in ridiculous fashion to attempt to sell them.
As for Seattle, my own fair city, notion that massive & counterproductive protests are still with us is a Trumpsky fantasy. Every once in a while, some group will decide to have a "rally" or a "march" which turns out to be . . ., noting much.
Mainly because folks figured out, that being manipulated by Trumpsky's federal agents AND agents provacateur was COUNTERPRODUCTIVE indeed directly harmful to the true cause of equality and justice.
So why would his future career be an issue?
Russia is funny.