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Cyclefree’s 2020 Awards – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    A special award should exist for the shit head that is Gavin Williamson.

    https://twitter.com/sianushka/status/1344335872779546626

    The Gavin Williamson award for being Gavin Williamson? He'll win every year.

    To be totally serious, is there anyone who likes him?


    The only job he should be allowed near is the whips office.
    Let's hope the reasons Greenwich and Islington are on the "schools open" list isn't political...
    That would be the triumph of hope over reality.
    I'm sure there's a rigorous excel spreadsheet, and it's just coincidence that someone has added "starts with G" as a criterion scoring - 1000000 points.
    (Though apparently Redbridge has been added to the list...)

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1344360424301600771?s=19
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    All because one man had a funky burger back in November 2019.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    Nigelb said:

    BBC medical correspondent Fergus Walsh asks the prime minister how many people will be immunised each week - "because surely it needs to be in the millions".

    Mr Johnson says: "The best answer I can give at the moment is we will have tens of millions of doses by the end of March. We're working to get the programme going as fast we can.

    "I don't want to give you specific numbers at the moment, but I can tell you that we are shifting heaven and earth to roll them out as fast as we can."

    Prof Van-Tam adds that it's "probably not the best idea" to look at December and how the NHS vaccination programme has started so far with the Pfizer vaccine, and to overlay that with "kitchen-table mathematics" as to how that'll scale up from January to March.

    There really is no point asking Johnson any question which involves detail. Unless you wish to establish his lack of knowledge - which at this point seems an unnecessary exercise.
    Actually to be fair, it is better than his usual look we will do 27 million by tomorrow and we will all be partying in the streets for New Years Day type stuff.

    I think they know that they are beholden to AZN, who haven't delivered what they said they would, and so can't give any exact figures beyond knowing they have 500k doses for next week.
    Talking head on C4 news who sounded knowledgeable was saying that owing to the emergency authorisation, MRHA could only authorise a batch at a time, so possibly it is just a backlog needing certifying for release.
  • I don't have much time for Suella Braverman but, in the interests of accuracy, I should point out that she did NOT ask the Court of Appeal to ignore the law in the Andrew Harper case. Far from it.

    The law requires judges to follow the relevant sentencing guidelines "unless the court is satisfied that it would be contrary to the interests of justice to do so". Braverman's "unusual submission" was that the judge in this case should have departed from the guidelines as is permitted by the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 section 125. That cannot in any way be described as ignoring the law. However, the Court of Appeal found that she failed to give any adequate explanation as to why the judge in this case was not just entitled to depart from the sentencing guidelines but was positively required to do so.
  • ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    A special award should exist for the shit head that is Gavin Williamson.

    https://twitter.com/sianushka/status/1344335872779546626

    The Gavin Williamson award for being Gavin Williamson? He'll win every year.

    To be totally serious, is there anyone who likes him?


    The only job he should be allowed near is the whips office.
    Let's hope the reasons Greenwich and Islington are on the "schools open" list isn't political...
    That would be the triumph of hope over reality.
    I'm sure there's a rigorous excel spreadsheet, and it's just coincidence that someone has added "starts with G" as a criterion scoring - 1000000 points.
    (Though apparently Redbridge has been added to the list...)

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1344360424301600771?s=19
    Concerned of Ilford :open_mouth:
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    A special award should exist for the shit head that is Gavin Williamson.

    https://twitter.com/sianushka/status/1344335872779546626

    The Gavin Williamson award for being Gavin Williamson? He'll win every year.

    To be totally serious, is there anyone who likes him?


    The only job he should be allowed near is the whips office.
    Let's hope the reasons Greenwich and Islington are on the "schools open" list isn't political...
    That would be the triumph of hope over reality.
    I'm sure there's a rigorous excel spreadsheet, and it's just coincidence that someone has added "starts with G" as a criterion scoring - 1000000 points.
    (Though apparently Redbridge has been added to the list...)

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1344360424301600771?s=19
    Concerned of Ilford :open_mouth:
    Redbridge is a covid disaster zone from what I hear
  • The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine will likely be authorised for emergency use in the US in April, the chief adviser for the country’s vaccine program has said on Wednesday.

    Operation Warp Speed chief adviser Dr Moncef Slaoui said recruitment for the British drugmaker’s late-stage US trial is almost complete with over 29,000 participants already enrolled, Reuters reported.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine will likely be authorised for emergency use in the US in April, the chief adviser for the country’s vaccine program has said on Wednesday.

    Operation Warp Speed chief adviser Dr Moncef Slaoui said recruitment for the British drugmaker’s late-stage US trial is almost complete with over 29,000 participants already enrolled, Reuters reported.

    Don't they have orders for a billion doses, but can only make two million a week. Anyone notice an issue here?
  • RobD said:

    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    No hits on google, so more twitter bollocks.
    It sounds intuitively BS.

    Sort of thing a Remainer would invent, not diplomatic enough for UvDL (even if she thought it she wouldn't say it).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    https://www.business-live.co.uk/manufacturing/wrexham-factory-produce-millions-doses-19539566


    The Wrexham plant is able to produce around 300 million doses of the vaccine each year, and has been producing 150,000 phials a day for months in readiness to roll out the vaccine across the UK.

    Shouldn't that be 10m doses? 60days x 150,000 a day.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited December 2020
    RobD said:

    The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine will likely be authorised for emergency use in the US in April, the chief adviser for the country’s vaccine program has said on Wednesday.

    Operation Warp Speed chief adviser Dr Moncef Slaoui said recruitment for the British drugmaker’s late-stage US trial is almost complete with over 29,000 participants already enrolled, Reuters reported.

    Don't they have orders for a billion doses, but can only make two million a week. Anyone notice an issue here?
    The mega facilities owned by The Serum Institute of India will be pumping this out shortly. They produce 1.5bn doses of various vaccines every year at the moment.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    A special award should exist for the shit head that is Gavin Williamson.

    https://twitter.com/sianushka/status/1344335872779546626

    The Gavin Williamson award for being Gavin Williamson? He'll win every year.

    To be totally serious, is there anyone who likes him?


    The only job he should be allowed near is the whips office.
    Let's hope the reasons Greenwich and Islington are on the "schools open" list isn't political...
    That would be the triumph of hope over reality.
    I'm sure there's a rigorous excel spreadsheet, and it's just coincidence that someone has added "starts with G" as a criterion scoring - 1000000 points.
    (Though apparently Redbridge has been added to the list...)

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1344360424301600771?s=19
    As I said before, what’s the difference between intelligence in the DfE and Bigfoot?

    Some people believe there is a Bigfoot.
  • Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    A special award should exist for the shit head that is Gavin Williamson.

    https://twitter.com/sianushka/status/1344335872779546626

    The Gavin Williamson award for being Gavin Williamson? He'll win every year.

    To be totally serious, is there anyone who likes him?


    The only job he should be allowed near is the whips office.
    Let's hope the reasons Greenwich and Islington are on the "schools open" list isn't political...
    That would be the triumph of hope over reality.
    I'm sure there's a rigorous excel spreadsheet, and it's just coincidence that someone has added "starts with G" as a criterion scoring - 1000000 points.
    (Though apparently Redbridge has been added to the list...)

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1344360424301600771?s=19
    Concerned of Ilford :open_mouth:
    Redbridge is a covid disaster zone from what I hear
    The other thing was just looking at the map... It was surrounded by closing boroughs, which made no sense at all.

    I think Havering (i.e. Greater Romford) still has the coronacrown in London.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,244
    RobD said:

    https://www.business-live.co.uk/manufacturing/wrexham-factory-produce-millions-doses-19539566


    The Wrexham plant is able to produce around 300 million doses of the vaccine each year, and has been producing 150,000 phials a day for months in readiness to roll out the vaccine across the UK.

    Shouldn't that be 10m doses? 60days x 150,000 a day.

    We have 100m on order.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    RobD said:

    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    No hits on google, so more twitter bollocks.
    It sounds intuitively BS.

    Sort of thing a Remainer would invent, not diplomatic enough for UvDL (even if she thought it she wouldn't say it).
    Sort of thing Ursula vdL would steal and pass off as her own ... judging from her PhD.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    MattW said:

    RobD said:

    https://www.business-live.co.uk/manufacturing/wrexham-factory-produce-millions-doses-19539566


    The Wrexham plant is able to produce around 300 million doses of the vaccine each year, and has been producing 150,000 phials a day for months in readiness to roll out the vaccine across the UK.

    Shouldn't that be 10m doses? 60days x 150,000 a day.

    We have 100m on order.
    I know, just curious the mismatch between the number of doses this place has been producing, and the number available right now.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    RobD said:

    The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine will likely be authorised for emergency use in the US in April, the chief adviser for the country’s vaccine program has said on Wednesday.

    Operation Warp Speed chief adviser Dr Moncef Slaoui said recruitment for the British drugmaker’s late-stage US trial is almost complete with over 29,000 participants already enrolled, Reuters reported.

    Don't they have orders for a billion doses, but can only make two million a week. Anyone notice an issue here?
    The mega facilities owned by The Serum Institute of India will be pumping this out shortly. They produce 1.5bn doses of various vaccines every year at the moment.
    Hopefully very soon!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    Omnium said:

    kle4 said:

    A special award should exist for the shit head that is Gavin Williamson.

    https://twitter.com/sianushka/status/1344335872779546626

    The Gavin Williamson award for being Gavin Williamson? He'll win every year.

    To be totally serious, is there anyone who likes him? Boris must have at one point as the man helped in his leadership campaign and got a nice job in return, but he really doesn't seem to have any online fans at all. It would be such a quick win to sack him, who is going to get upset on his behalf?
    I think it's quite likely that someone here will have backed him at short odds to be next PM during May's exit.

    I guess the usual suspects here represent perhaps 20% of the political betting market, and when you add in the less frequent posters and the lurkers then perhaps 50%?

    (Just BF markets)
    I've definitely bet on him at some point. Ambitious cabinet minister blessed with plentiful self confidence. Well worth a punt.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited December 2020
    I know I am biased working for the police for 30 years.
    However I think they do a difficult job for those working on the front line during a pandemic.Many in very close contact with violent people who spit and injure officers.
    Maybe cyclefree omitted them for a reason I very much hope not.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine will likely be authorised for emergency use in the US in April, the chief adviser for the country’s vaccine program has said on Wednesday.

    Operation Warp Speed chief adviser Dr Moncef Slaoui said recruitment for the British drugmaker’s late-stage US trial is almost complete with over 29,000 participants already enrolled, Reuters reported.

    Don't they have orders for a billion doses, but can only make two million a week. Anyone notice an issue here?
    The mega facilities owned by The Serum Institute of India will be pumping this out shortly. They produce 1.5bn doses of various vaccines every year at the moment.
    Hopefully very soon!
    I don't believe their production will be for European market.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    Of course Richard B Russell was.....er.....a democrat Senator
    The Democrats were the party that opposed blacks being allowed to vote. Indeed, they had segregationist Senators, including one that remained in office until 2010.

    There is no doubt that the Republicans, the party of Lincoln and of Reagan, were the non-racist party.

    There is also no doubt that Lincoln and Reagan, men of enormous personal probity, would be disgusted at Trump.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    rcs1000 said:

    Of course Richard B Russell was.....er.....a democrat Senator
    The Democrats were the party that opposed blacks being allowed to vote. Indeed, they had segregationist Senators, including one that remained in office until 2010.

    There is no doubt that the Republicans, the party of Lincoln and of Reagan, were the non-racist party.

    There is also no doubt that Lincoln and Reagan, men of enormous personal probity, would be disgusted at Trump.
    Reagan - Iran-Contra?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315

    I now have a mental image of Priti and The Truss mud wrestling.

    Thank you Cyclefree!

    My work here is done.😀
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831
    alex_ said:

    BTW - it does tentatively look as if case numbers in England my have peaked (7 day averages) - am i reading figures correctly?

    The official 7 day averages of cases by specimen date are always five days old, so the 25th just got included while the 18th dropped out. And people just didn't go for tests on Christmas Day, at least compared to a normal weekday.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    RobD said:

    https://www.business-live.co.uk/manufacturing/wrexham-factory-produce-millions-doses-19539566


    The Wrexham plant is able to produce around 300 million doses of the vaccine each year, and has been producing 150,000 phials a day for months in readiness to roll out the vaccine across the UK.

    Shouldn't that be 10m doses? 60days x 150,000 a day.

    "is able" != "has been"
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,478
    An excellent thread from Cyclefree - I enjoyed it from beginning to end. This is the sort of sharp, bitesize content that works very well on a site like this, and stimulates discussion below the line.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    What an imbecile our esteemed First Lord of the Treasury is.

    ‘The message is: schools are safe. The problem is not the schools. Teachers, school authorities, parents, they made a fantastic effort to make schools safe places.

    "The issue is what happens...the spread from the mixing of households that naturally takes place in schools, that's what we're trying to combat in the very high infection rate areas.’

    So schools are not the problem, the problem is that children are mixing in, er, schools.

    How on earth did somebody this hard of thinking ever get any degree, even a cheap one like Classics in Oxford?

    https://www.tes.com/news/schools-are-safe-says-prime-minister
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    MattW said:

    RobD said:

    https://www.business-live.co.uk/manufacturing/wrexham-factory-produce-millions-doses-19539566


    The Wrexham plant is able to produce around 300 million doses of the vaccine each year, and has been producing 150,000 phials a day for months in readiness to roll out the vaccine across the UK.

    Shouldn't that be 10m doses? 60days x 150,000 a day.

    We have 100m on order.
    ..
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,478

    I now have a mental image of Priti and The Truss mud wrestling.

    Thank you Cyclefree!

    Mud wrestlin' surely. :lol:
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    Like Corbyn, the ERG and the Lib Dems they've voted entirely on principle throughout.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    What I’m not clear on, at this moment, is whether we are supposed to be providing remote learning for non-exam classes from the 11th January. Because so far the comments I have seen are ambiguous.

    We should be, but that’s never been a consideration in education policy.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315

    I don't have much time for Suella Braverman but, in the interests of accuracy, I should point out that she did NOT ask the Court of Appeal to ignore the law in the Andrew Harper case. Far from it.

    The law requires judges to follow the relevant sentencing guidelines "unless the court is satisfied that it would be contrary to the interests of justice to do so". Braverman's "unusual submission" was that the judge in this case should have departed from the guidelines as is permitted by the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 section 125. That cannot in any way be described as ignoring the law. However, the Court of Appeal found that she failed to give any adequate explanation as to why the judge in this case was not just entitled to depart from the sentencing guidelines but was positively required to do so.

    The Court of Appeal judgment is utterly scathing of her submissions. You'd be ashamed to be putting stuff like that forward as an ordinary lawyer, never mind as A-G, especially as she had no criminal law experience. It was done purely to set up the courts as somehow not in touch. She should be thoroughly ashamed.

    As for Buckland he endorsed what Lewis said and indeed went further suggesting that there were acceptable and unacceptable ways of breaking the law. They are both a disgrace to their professions.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Of course Richard B Russell was.....er.....a democrat Senator
    The Democrats were the party that opposed blacks being allowed to vote. Indeed, they had segregationist Senators, including one that remained in office until 2010.

    There is no doubt that the Republicans, the party of Lincoln and of Reagan, were the non-racist party.

    There is also no doubt that Lincoln and Reagan, men of enormous personal probity, would be disgusted at Trump.
    Reagan - Iran-Contra?
    Exactly.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    Moscow or Paris via a 17 year old Serbian college student
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited December 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Like Corbyn, the ERG and the Lib Dems they've voted entirely on principle throughout.
    I don't think they have. I think they enjoyed the power they held with May and pushed too hard, then whinged about it afterwards when it bit them in the arse. They are a bit too fond of presenting their righteousness as if they are the only ones who have ever acted so.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Of course Richard B Russell was.....er.....a democrat Senator
    The Democrats were the party that opposed blacks being allowed to vote. Indeed, they had segregationist Senators, including one that remained in office until 2010.

    There is no doubt that the Republicans, the party of Lincoln and of Reagan, were the non-racist party.

    There is also no doubt that Lincoln and Reagan, men of enormous personal probity, would be disgusted at Trump.
    Reagan - Iran-Contra?
    Exactly.
    You consider his actions over Iran-Contra demonstrate ‘enormous personal probity?’
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315
    Yorkcity said:

    I know I am biased working for the police for 30 years.
    However I think they do a difficult job for those working on the front line during a pandemic.Many in very close contact with violent people who spit and injure officers.
    Maybe cyclefree omitted them for a reason I very much hope not.

    The list would have been enormous if I listed everyone. Just the first ones that popped into my head. Consider them included in "all the very many".
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    RobD said:

    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    No hits on google, so more twitter bollocks.
    It sounds intuitively BS.

    Sort of thing a Remainer would invent, not diplomatic enough for UvDL (even if she thought it she wouldn't say it).
    It’s true though we no longer have frictionless trade with the continent we once had.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Like Corbyn, the ERG and the Lib Dems they've voted entirely on principle throughout.
    I don't think they have. I think they enjoyed the power they held with May and pushed too hard, then whinged about it afterwards when it bit them in the arse. They are a bit too fond of presenting their righteousness as if they are the only ones who have ever acted so.
    Principle is the last thing you need when it comes to doing this sort of deal. Which is probably why Boris has fared better than May.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    ydoethur said:

    What an imbecile our esteemed First Lord of the Treasury is.

    ‘The message is: schools are safe. The problem is not the schools. Teachers, school authorities, parents, they made a fantastic effort to make schools safe places.

    "The issue is what happens...the spread from the mixing of households that naturally takes place in schools, that's what we're trying to combat in the very high infection rate areas.’

    So schools are not the problem, the problem is that children are mixing in, er, schools.

    How on earth did somebody this hard of thinking ever get any degree, even a cheap one like Classics in Oxford?

    https://www.tes.com/news/schools-are-safe-says-prime-minister

    Indeed.
    Any idea how this testing in schools will work?
    Round here the majority are bussed in.
    So, they will need to get on a bus with dozens of others, across all year groups, to be tested, to see if they are safe to, erm, mix with dozens of others.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    What an imbecile our esteemed First Lord of the Treasury is.

    ‘The message is: schools are safe. The problem is not the schools. Teachers, school authorities, parents, they made a fantastic effort to make schools safe places.

    "The issue is what happens...the spread from the mixing of households that naturally takes place in schools, that's what we're trying to combat in the very high infection rate areas.’

    So schools are not the problem, the problem is that children are mixing in, er, schools.

    How on earth did somebody this hard of thinking ever get any degree, even a cheap one like Classics in Oxford?

    https://www.tes.com/news/schools-are-safe-says-prime-minister

    Indeed.
    Any idea how this testing in schools will work?
    Round here the majority are bussed in.
    So, they will need to get on a bus with dozens of others, across all year groups, to be tested, to see if they are safe to, erm, mix with dozens of others.
    Easy, it won’t.

    Not unless we have huge numbers of trained staff to run it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Of course Richard B Russell was.....er.....a democrat Senator
    The Democrats were the party that opposed blacks being allowed to vote. Indeed, they had segregationist Senators, including one that remained in office until 2010.

    There is no doubt that the Republicans, the party of Lincoln and of Reagan, were the non-racist party.

    There is also no doubt that Lincoln and Reagan, men of enormous personal probity, would be disgusted at Trump.
    Reagan - Iran-Contra?
    Exactly.
    You consider his actions over Iran-Contra demonstrate ‘enormous personal probity?’
    Certainly by recent years' standards.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,478
    In my opinion, the future is looking brighter than it has for a long time for NI within the Union. As a straight up battle between Protestant unionists and Catholic republicans, it was facing gradual demographic extinction. That could all now be overridden, made insignificant, by a new economic role, as a bridge between the UK and EU, enjoying some of the benefits of both. I can see it being useful not just to the UK, but to the ROI - it could lead to a permanent settlement that everyone is happy with.

    I would really like Boris to look at attracting a charter city for anyone who wishes to migrate from Hong Kong to NI, whether that means new enterprize zones etc.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Like Corbyn, the ERG and the Lib Dems they've voted entirely on principle throughout.
    I don't think they have. I think they enjoyed the power they held with May and pushed too hard, then whinged about it afterwards when it bit them in the arse. They are a bit too fond of presenting their righteousness as if they are the only ones who have ever acted so.
    Principle is the last thing you need when it comes to doing this sort of deal. Which is probably why Boris has fared better than May.
    I think having none is a bad thing, but leaders do need to be flexible and not hold too tightly to their principles at times. Also their principles might be reprehensible, in which case sticking to them is not admirable.
  • Had a fun pre-Tier 4 panic buying* shopping trip to the local toy superstore today.

    Took the kids to spend their gift cards they got from great-grandparents who couldn't go shopping themselves this year. Was a lot of fun letting them pick out their toys to their budget and the place while not packed was quite busy all with families clearly doing the same thing. Every aisle we bumped into someone else was the same conversation out loud "ok, you have a bit more to spend" or "if you get that, that's all your money now".

    While I fully understand while toy stores are not "essential" I wonder how many kids will be in a similar situation of having received gift cards as Christmas presents only to now potentially not be able to spend them until the Spring.

    * Preplanned with some stuff prebooked to pick up today and kids told yesterday we were going.
  • ydoethur said:

    What I’m not clear on, at this moment, is whether we are supposed to be providing remote learning for non-exam classes from the 11th January. Because so far the comments I have seen are ambiguous.

    We should be, but that’s never been a consideration in education policy.

    This is from Twitter, but Laura McInerney is one of the good ones

    https://twitter.com/miss_mcinerney/status/1344362968021168129?s=19

    So it looks like schools don't have to provide online teaching, despite what the law says.

    Presumably, this only breaks the law in a specific and limited way.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Of course Richard B Russell was.....er.....a democrat Senator
    The Democrats were the party that opposed blacks being allowed to vote. Indeed, they had segregationist Senators, including one that remained in office until 2010.

    There is no doubt that the Republicans, the party of Lincoln and of Reagan, were the non-racist party.

    There is also no doubt that Lincoln and Reagan, men of enormous personal probity, would be disgusted at Trump.
    Reagan - Iran-Contra?
    Exactly.
    You consider his actions over Iran-Contra demonstrate ‘enormous personal probity?’
    Certainly by recent years' standards.
    A favourite phrase of mine about low bars and limbo dancing mice springs to mind.
  • gealbhan said:

    RobD said:

    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    No hits on google, so more twitter bollocks.
    It sounds intuitively BS.

    Sort of thing a Remainer would invent, not diplomatic enough for UvDL (even if she thought it she wouldn't say it).
    It’s true though we no longer have frictionless trade with the continent we once had.
    It isn't true. We no longer have frictionless trade but it is not true at all to say we have "won nothing".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    What I’m not clear on, at this moment, is whether we are supposed to be providing remote learning for non-exam classes from the 11th January. Because so far the comments I have seen are ambiguous.

    We should be, but that’s never been a consideration in education policy.

    This is from Twitter, but Laura McInerney is one of the good ones

    https://twitter.com/miss_mcinerney/status/1344362968021168129?s=19

    So it looks like schools don't have to provide online teaching, despite what the law says.

    Presumably, this only breaks the law in a specific and limited way.
    Thanks.

    This is getting beyond ridiculous.

    I can see logic in keeping schools shut, but what’s the point of insisting we upgrade remote learning and providing all these bits of tech if 90% of those off won’t need it?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,706
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    What an imbecile our esteemed First Lord of the Treasury is.

    ‘The message is: schools are safe. The problem is not the schools. Teachers, school authorities, parents, they made a fantastic effort to make schools safe places.

    "The issue is what happens...the spread from the mixing of households that naturally takes place in schools, that's what we're trying to combat in the very high infection rate areas.’

    So schools are not the problem, the problem is that children are mixing in, er, schools.

    How on earth did somebody this hard of thinking ever get any degree, even a cheap one like Classics in Oxford?

    https://www.tes.com/news/schools-are-safe-says-prime-minister

    Indeed.
    Any idea how this testing in schools will work?
    Round here the majority are bussed in.
    So, they will need to get on a bus with dozens of others, across all year groups, to be tested, to see if they are safe to, erm, mix with dozens of others.
    Easy, it won’t.

    Not unless we have huge numbers of trained staff to run it.
    One also assumes all mass testing in schools is really going to achieve is picking up more positive covid cases, therefore causing more isolations, therefore demonstrating even faster that the schools probably aren't really going to function properly and should be shut anyway.

    Or is there some flaw in my logic
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882

    In my opinion, the future is looking brighter than it has for a long time for NI within the Union. As a straight up battle between Protestant unionists and Catholic republicans, it was facing gradual demographic extinction. That could all now be overridden, made insignificant, by a new economic role, as a bridge between the UK and EU, enjoying some of the benefits of both. I can see it being useful not just to the UK, but to the ROI - it could lead to a permanent settlement that everyone is happy with.

    I would really like Boris to look at attracting a charter city for anyone who wishes to migrate from Hong Kong to NI, whether that means new enterprize zones etc.
    My instant reaction was to wonder if I was reading a tweet from James VI and I's court 400-odd years ago.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    If even so epically shite a general as the slave owning racist corrupt land thieving traitor could get it right, why can’t Donald Trump?
    Washington wasn't that shite. He won. Mr Trump didn't.
    Washington was pretty shite.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    Had a fun pre-Tier 4 panic buying* shopping trip to the local toy superstore today.

    Took the kids to spend their gift cards they got from great-grandparents who couldn't go shopping themselves this year. Was a lot of fun letting them pick out their toys to their budget and the place while not packed was quite busy all with families clearly doing the same thing. Every aisle we bumped into someone else was the same conversation out loud "ok, you have a bit more to spend" or "if you get that, that's all your money now".

    While I fully understand while toy stores are not "essential" I wonder how many kids will be in a similar situation of having received gift cards as Christmas presents only to now potentially not be able to spend them until the Spring.

    * Preplanned with some stuff prebooked to pick up today and kids told yesterday we were going.

    Presumably shopping online with click and collect will still be fine. It is permitted in Tier 4, I believe.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Another very astute question:
    https://twitter.com/Cdg2206Carl/status/1344366728168546315
    The entire twitter feed of the DfE is currently full of furious people demanding answers to specific questions they didn’t brief Williamson on.

    This isn’t a car crash, it’s a pileup, followed by a 747 carrying a nuclear bomb landing on the wreckage.

    Still, I suppose it stopped us talking about the shortcomings of this Deal...
  • Hateful as the DUP's brand of politics is, they have a point. They trusted the Prime Minister who repeatedly told everyone that he would not put a border down the Irish Sea and thus preserve the integrity of the UK.

    He lied.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    What an imbecile our esteemed First Lord of the Treasury is.

    ‘The message is: schools are safe. The problem is not the schools. Teachers, school authorities, parents, they made a fantastic effort to make schools safe places.

    "The issue is what happens...the spread from the mixing of households that naturally takes place in schools, that's what we're trying to combat in the very high infection rate areas.’

    So schools are not the problem, the problem is that children are mixing in, er, schools.

    How on earth did somebody this hard of thinking ever get any degree, even a cheap one like Classics in Oxford?

    https://www.tes.com/news/schools-are-safe-says-prime-minister

    Indeed.
    Any idea how this testing in schools will work?
    Round here the majority are bussed in.
    So, they will need to get on a bus with dozens of others, across all year groups, to be tested, to see if they are safe to, erm, mix with dozens of others.
    Easy, it won’t.

    Not unless we have huge numbers of trained staff to run it.
    One also assumes all mass testing in schools is really going to achieve is picking up more positive covid cases, therefore causing more isolations, therefore demonstrating even faster that the schools probably aren't really going to function properly and should be shut anyway.

    Or is there some flaw in my logic
    The flaw in your logic is that these tests are not terribly accurate.

    Otherwise I would say your logic is sound.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Carnyx said:

    In my opinion, the future is looking brighter than it has for a long time for NI within the Union. As a straight up battle between Protestant unionists and Catholic republicans, it was facing gradual demographic extinction. That could all now be overridden, made insignificant, by a new economic role, as a bridge between the UK and EU, enjoying some of the benefits of both. I can see it being useful not just to the UK, but to the ROI - it could lead to a permanent settlement that everyone is happy with.

    I would really like Boris to look at attracting a charter city for anyone who wishes to migrate from Hong Kong to NI, whether that means new enterprize zones etc.
    My instant reaction was to wonder if I was reading a tweet from James VI and I's court 400-odd years ago.
    It’s a plant.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    edited December 2020
    Gaussian said:

    alex_ said:

    BTW - it does tentatively look as if case numbers in England my have peaked (7 day averages) - am i reading figures correctly?

    The official 7 day averages of cases by specimen date are always five days old, so the 25th just got included while the 18th dropped out. And people just didn't go for tests on Christmas Day, at least compared to a normal weekday.

    We are still in the Weekend Effect of Christmas - so it is very hard to tell for sure

    Today

    image

    Yesterday

    image

    That being said, R did start to drop around the 20th

    image

    The question is whether that was an early Christmas Effect or what....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,214
    That is a header and a half. Ab Fab.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited December 2020

    Hateful as the DUP's brand of politics is, they have a point. They trusted the Prime Minister who repeatedly told everyone that he would not put a border down the Irish Sea and thus preserve the integrity of the UK.

    He lied.

    You mean, a man who was sacked from every job he ever had for lying and who cheated on everyone who trusted him lied to the DUP?

    That’s amazing. How on earth could they have been expected to see that coming?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,478
    Carnyx said:

    In my opinion, the future is looking brighter than it has for a long time for NI within the Union. As a straight up battle between Protestant unionists and Catholic republicans, it was facing gradual demographic extinction. That could all now be overridden, made insignificant, by a new economic role, as a bridge between the UK and EU, enjoying some of the benefits of both. I can see it being useful not just to the UK, but to the ROI - it could lead to a permanent settlement that everyone is happy with.

    I would really like Boris to look at attracting a charter city for anyone who wishes to migrate from Hong Kong to NI, whether that means new enterprize zones etc.
    My instant reaction was to wonder if I was reading a tweet from James VI and I's court 400-odd years ago.
    I'll take that as a compliment! :smiley:

    I would see it more as an allusion to the reign of George I - where Protestant vs. Catholic rivalry (in England) gave way to commercial success. As Daniel Defoe said 'There is no Protestant and Catholic in a good bargain'.
  • dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    What an imbecile our esteemed First Lord of the Treasury is.

    ‘The message is: schools are safe. The problem is not the schools. Teachers, school authorities, parents, they made a fantastic effort to make schools safe places.

    "The issue is what happens...the spread from the mixing of households that naturally takes place in schools, that's what we're trying to combat in the very high infection rate areas.’

    So schools are not the problem, the problem is that children are mixing in, er, schools.

    How on earth did somebody this hard of thinking ever get any degree, even a cheap one like Classics in Oxford?

    https://www.tes.com/news/schools-are-safe-says-prime-minister

    Indeed.
    Any idea how this testing in schools will work?
    Round here the majority are bussed in.
    So, they will need to get on a bus with dozens of others, across all year groups, to be tested, to see if they are safe to, erm, mix with dozens of others.
    And of course there is the obvious issue that the testing only tells you if someone is positive on the day of the test. Given, as far as I know there is no plan to test kids every day before they start school, it means that most days they will be potentially bringing the virus into school from infected families and happily passing it to their friends who can then bring it home to other families. It is moronic. So par for the course for Williamson.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    RobD said:

    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    No hits on google, so more twitter bollocks.
    It sounds intuitively BS.

    Sort of thing a Remainer would invent, not diplomatic enough for UvDL (even if she thought it she wouldn't say it).
    It’s true though we no longer have frictionless trade with the continent we once had.
    It isn't true. We no longer have frictionless trade but it is not true at all to say we have "won nothing".
    LOL. What are you saying we won? We went backwards in frictionless trade, what did we win in return to account for making our economy, government and households poorer?
  • ydoethur said:

    Another very astute question:
    https://twitter.com/Cdg2206Carl/status/1344366728168546315
    The entire twitter feed of the DfE is currently full of furious people demanding answers to specific questions they didn’t brief Williamson on.

    This isn’t a car crash, it’s a pileup, followed by a 747 carrying a nuclear bomb landing on the wreckage.

    Still, I suppose it stopped us talking about the shortcomings of this Deal...

    So is the Deal a dead cat to distract everyone from the covidshambles?

    Or is the covidshambles a dead cat to distract everyone from the Deal?

    Or is the hope that they are a cat and an anticat, set to mutually annihilate and release a huge burst of energy?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    Alistair said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    If even so epically shite a general as the slave owning racist corrupt land thieving traitor could get it right, why can’t Donald Trump?
    Washington wasn't that shite. He won. Mr Trump didn't.
    Washington was pretty shite.
    Operationally, I think that a fair assessment. His triumph though was strategic. Like the Viet Cong, what he had to do was keep an army in the field, control the countryside, and increase the siege of the British occupied cities. Once Cornwallis Southern Campaign was over, and he was besieged at York Town, he had his Dien Bien Phu.

    You would have thought the Yanks might have taken some notes...
  • Foxy said:

    Had a fun pre-Tier 4 panic buying* shopping trip to the local toy superstore today.

    Took the kids to spend their gift cards they got from great-grandparents who couldn't go shopping themselves this year. Was a lot of fun letting them pick out their toys to their budget and the place while not packed was quite busy all with families clearly doing the same thing. Every aisle we bumped into someone else was the same conversation out loud "ok, you have a bit more to spend" or "if you get that, that's all your money now".

    While I fully understand while toy stores are not "essential" I wonder how many kids will be in a similar situation of having received gift cards as Christmas presents only to now potentially not be able to spend them until the Spring.

    * Preplanned with some stuff prebooked to pick up today and kids told yesterday we were going.

    Presumably shopping online with click and collect will still be fine. It is permitted in Tier 4, I believe.
    I suppose so actually; but that's one thing where it isn't the same thing. I mean you could browse the website but then you could just use Amazon too. Taking the kids up and down the aisles is a different story.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    RobD said:

    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    No hits on google, so more twitter bollocks.
    It sounds intuitively BS.

    Sort of thing a Remainer would invent, not diplomatic enough for UvDL (even if she thought it she wouldn't say it).
    It’s true though we no longer have frictionless trade with the continent we once had.
    It isn't true. We no longer have frictionless trade but it is not true at all to say we have "won nothing".
    LOL. What are you saying we won? We went backwards in frictionless trade, what did we win in return to account for making our economy, government and households poorer?
    Something for the hard of herring?
  • gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    RobD said:

    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    No hits on google, so more twitter bollocks.
    It sounds intuitively BS.

    Sort of thing a Remainer would invent, not diplomatic enough for UvDL (even if she thought it she wouldn't say it).
    It’s true though we no longer have frictionless trade with the continent we once had.
    It isn't true. We no longer have frictionless trade but it is not true at all to say we have "won nothing".
    LOL. What are you saying we won? We went backwards in frictionless trade, what did we win in return to account for making our economy, government and households poorer?
    Freedom to control our own laws.
    Freedom to control our own economy.
    Freedom to negotiate better trade deals with fewer red lines.
    Freedom to make our own economy, government and households richer.
    Oh and some fish.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    What an imbecile our esteemed First Lord of the Treasury is.

    ‘The message is: schools are safe. The problem is not the schools. Teachers, school authorities, parents, they made a fantastic effort to make schools safe places.

    "The issue is what happens...the spread from the mixing of households that naturally takes place in schools, that's what we're trying to combat in the very high infection rate areas.’

    So schools are not the problem, the problem is that children are mixing in, er, schools.

    How on earth did somebody this hard of thinking ever get any degree, even a cheap one like Classics in Oxford?

    https://www.tes.com/news/schools-are-safe-says-prime-minister

    Indeed.
    Any idea how this testing in schools will work?
    Round here the majority are bussed in.
    So, they will need to get on a bus with dozens of others, across all year groups, to be tested, to see if they are safe to, erm, mix with dozens of others.
    And of course there is the obvious issue that the testing only tells you if someone is positive on the day of the test. Given, as far as I know there is no plan to test kids every day before they start school, it means that most days they will be potentially bringing the virus into school from infected families and happily passing it to their friends who can then bring it home to other families. It is moronic. So par for the course for Williamson.
    I had been wondering, so thank you for confirming that they really, really could be that stupid.
  • ydoethur said:

    Another very astute question:
    https://twitter.com/Cdg2206Carl/status/1344366728168546315
    The entire twitter feed of the DfE is currently full of furious people demanding answers to specific questions they didn’t brief Williamson on.

    This isn’t a car crash, it’s a pileup, followed by a 747 carrying a nuclear bomb landing on the wreckage.

    Still, I suppose it stopped us talking about the shortcomings of this Deal...

    Yes but it's been all those things for a while. Schools have been a catastrofuck for a long time right back to their initial closure and then "your child will go back or we will fine you". Fuck after fuck after fuck. But Williamson is untouchable because Brexit. And catastrofucks can be ignored or slapped down as attempts to attack Brexit.

    Well now Brexit is dead and gone. Which is what another 10k people will be unless this simpering clown finally gets the fucking sack.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Hateful as the DUP's brand of politics is, they have a point. They trusted the Prime Minister who repeatedly told everyone that he would not put a border down the Irish Sea and thus preserve the integrity of the UK.

    He lied.

    They played a dangerous political game and were typically self righteous about it, and then got played for fools themselves. I don't have the slightest bit of sympathy for them.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,696

    Carnyx said:

    In my opinion, the future is looking brighter than it has for a long time for NI within the Union. As a straight up battle between Protestant unionists and Catholic republicans, it was facing gradual demographic extinction. That could all now be overridden, made insignificant, by a new economic role, as a bridge between the UK and EU, enjoying some of the benefits of both. I can see it being useful not just to the UK, but to the ROI - it could lead to a permanent settlement that everyone is happy with.

    I would really like Boris to look at attracting a charter city for anyone who wishes to migrate from Hong Kong to NI, whether that means new enterprize zones etc.
    My instant reaction was to wonder if I was reading a tweet from James VI and I's court 400-odd years ago.
    I'll take that as a compliment! :smiley:

    I would see it more as an allusion to the reign of George I - where Protestant vs. Catholic rivalry (in England) gave way to commercial success. As Daniel Defoe said 'There is no Protestant and Catholic in a good bargain'.
    In those terms, the ‘good bargain’ was UK-wide EU membership. We’ve just thrown it away.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    RobD said:

    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    No hits on google, so more twitter bollocks.
    It sounds intuitively BS.

    Sort of thing a Remainer would invent, not diplomatic enough for UvDL (even if she thought it she wouldn't say it).
    It’s true though we no longer have frictionless trade with the continent we once had.
    It isn't true. We no longer have frictionless trade but it is not true at all to say we have "won nothing".
    LOL. What are you saying we won? We went backwards in frictionless trade, what did we win in return to account for making our economy, government and households poorer?
    Something for the hard of herring?
    You may take it as red.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Cyclefree said:

    Yorkcity said:

    I know I am biased working for the police for 30 years.
    However I think they do a difficult job for those working on the front line during a pandemic.Many in very close contact with violent people who spit and injure officers.
    Maybe cyclefree omitted them for a reason I very much hope not.

    The list would have been enormous if I listed everyone. Just the first ones that popped into my head. Consider them included in "all the very many".
    Thanks cyclefree much appreciated.
    Sorry I questioned you.
    I agree you can not mention everyone.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    Foxy said:

    Had a fun pre-Tier 4 panic buying* shopping trip to the local toy superstore today.

    Took the kids to spend their gift cards they got from great-grandparents who couldn't go shopping themselves this year. Was a lot of fun letting them pick out their toys to their budget and the place while not packed was quite busy all with families clearly doing the same thing. Every aisle we bumped into someone else was the same conversation out loud "ok, you have a bit more to spend" or "if you get that, that's all your money now".

    While I fully understand while toy stores are not "essential" I wonder how many kids will be in a similar situation of having received gift cards as Christmas presents only to now potentially not be able to spend them until the Spring.

    * Preplanned with some stuff prebooked to pick up today and kids told yesterday we were going.

    Presumably shopping online with click and collect will still be fine. It is permitted in Tier 4, I believe.
    I suppose so actually; but that's one thing where it isn't the same thing. I mean you could browse the website but then you could just use Amazon too. Taking the kids up and down the aisles is a different story.
    Yes, particularly toddlers like to see things on a shelf. They often don't know what they want until they see it. Click and collect isn't as good, but still possible.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597

    In my opinion, the future is looking brighter than it has for a long time for NI within the Union. As a straight up battle between Protestant unionists and Catholic republicans, it was facing gradual demographic extinction. That could all now be overridden, made insignificant, by a new economic role, as a bridge between the UK and EU, enjoying some of the benefits of both. I can see it being useful not just to the UK, but to the ROI - it could lead to a permanent settlement that everyone is happy with.

    I would really like Boris to look at attracting a charter city for anyone who wishes to migrate from Hong Kong to NI, whether that means new enterprise zones etc.
    It's already been considered in the past.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/revealed-british-plan-to-move-hong-kong-to-northern-ireland-1.2272256
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    ydoethur said:

    What I’m not clear on, at this moment, is whether we are supposed to be providing remote learning for non-exam classes from the 11th January. Because so far the comments I have seen are ambiguous.

    We should be, but that’s never been a consideration in education policy.

    This is from Twitter, but Laura McInerney is one of the good ones

    https://twitter.com/miss_mcinerney/status/1344362968021168129?s=19

    So it looks like schools don't have to provide online teaching, despite what the law says.

    Presumably, this only breaks the law in a specific and limited way.
    Couldn't there have been a proper level of planning for this not exactly unpredictable eventuality?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    dodrade said:

    In my opinion, the future is looking brighter than it has for a long time for NI within the Union. As a straight up battle between Protestant unionists and Catholic republicans, it was facing gradual demographic extinction. That could all now be overridden, made insignificant, by a new economic role, as a bridge between the UK and EU, enjoying some of the benefits of both. I can see it being useful not just to the UK, but to the ROI - it could lead to a permanent settlement that everyone is happy with.

    I would really like Boris to look at attracting a charter city for anyone who wishes to migrate from Hong Kong to NI, whether that means new enterprise zones etc.
    It's already been considered in the past.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/revealed-british-plan-to-move-hong-kong-to-northern-ireland-1.2272256
    I wondered the same - essentially the NI position is now hugely attractive to business and potential investment, and not one that'll be easy to give up..
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    RobD said:

    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    No hits on google, so more twitter bollocks.
    It sounds intuitively BS.

    Sort of thing a Remainer would invent, not diplomatic enough for UvDL (even if she thought it she wouldn't say it).
    It’s true though we no longer have frictionless trade with the continent we once had.
    It isn't true. We no longer have frictionless trade but it is not true at all to say we have "won nothing".
    LOL. What are you saying we won? We went backwards in frictionless trade, what did we win in return to account for making our economy, government and households poorer?
    Freedom to control our own laws.
    Freedom to control our own economy.
    Freedom to negotiate better trade deals with fewer red lines.
    Freedom to make our own economy, government and households richer.
    Oh and some fish.
    You haven't read the agreement, have you?

    I'm currently working my way through it. It's dismal how few of Britain's own publicly stated asks it managed to get, despite holding all the cards. Apparently.
  • alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    What I’m not clear on, at this moment, is whether we are supposed to be providing remote learning for non-exam classes from the 11th January. Because so far the comments I have seen are ambiguous.

    We should be, but that’s never been a consideration in education policy.

    This is from Twitter, but Laura McInerney is one of the good ones

    https://twitter.com/miss_mcinerney/status/1344362968021168129?s=19

    So it looks like schools don't have to provide online teaching, despite what the law says.

    Presumably, this only breaks the law in a specific and limited way.
    Couldn't there have been a proper level of planning for this not exactly unpredictable eventuality?
    They were too busy planning legal action against schools not teaching all their pupils.
  • Hateful as the DUP's brand of politics is, they have a point. They trusted the Prime Minister who repeatedly told everyone that he would not put a border down the Irish Sea and thus preserve the integrity of the UK.

    He lied.

    Sucks to be them.

    Should have read the smallprint. Actually what had always been said, which the DUP agreed to in 2016, was that there would be no variant between GB and NI except for where Stormont approved of it - which is entirely reasonable devolution.

    Boris exercised that to the max. He agreed the variant then handed the keys to it to Stormont. Just because the DUP can't find a majority to end that isn't his fault, it is democracy.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315
    On topic, Gavin Williamson could have been awarded the Chris Grayling Award for Utter Uselessness.

    But I ran out of space.
  • alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    What I’m not clear on, at this moment, is whether we are supposed to be providing remote learning for non-exam classes from the 11th January. Because so far the comments I have seen are ambiguous.

    We should be, but that’s never been a consideration in education policy.

    This is from Twitter, but Laura McInerney is one of the good ones

    https://twitter.com/miss_mcinerney/status/1344362968021168129?s=19

    So it looks like schools don't have to provide online teaching, despite what the law says.

    Presumably, this only breaks the law in a specific and limited way.
    Couldn't there have been a proper level of planning for this not exactly unpredictable eventuality?
    There could, but only by having a totally different government.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,478
    edited December 2020

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    RobD said:

    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    No hits on google, so more twitter bollocks.
    It sounds intuitively BS.

    Sort of thing a Remainer would invent, not diplomatic enough for UvDL (even if she thought it she wouldn't say it).
    It’s true though we no longer have frictionless trade with the continent we once had.
    It isn't true. We no longer have frictionless trade but it is not true at all to say we have "won nothing".
    LOL. What are you saying we won? We went backwards in frictionless trade, what did we win in return to account for making our economy, government and households poorer?
    Freedom to control our own laws.
    Freedom to control our own economy.
    Freedom to negotiate better trade deals with fewer red lines.
    Freedom to make our own economy, government and households richer.
    Oh and some fish.
    Um, and billions of pounds? People seem to forget we did actually have to pay to be in the ruddy thing.

    Carnyx said:

    In my opinion, the future is looking brighter than it has for a long time for NI within the Union. As a straight up battle between Protestant unionists and Catholic republicans, it was facing gradual demographic extinction. That could all now be overridden, made insignificant, by a new economic role, as a bridge between the UK and EU, enjoying some of the benefits of both. I can see it being useful not just to the UK, but to the ROI - it could lead to a permanent settlement that everyone is happy with.

    I would really like Boris to look at attracting a charter city for anyone who wishes to migrate from Hong Kong to NI, whether that means new enterprize zones etc.
    My instant reaction was to wonder if I was reading a tweet from James VI and I's court 400-odd years ago.
    I'll take that as a compliment! :smiley:

    I would see it more as an allusion to the reign of George I - where Protestant vs. Catholic rivalry (in England) gave way to commercial success. As Daniel Defoe said 'There is no Protestant and Catholic in a good bargain'.
    In those terms, the ‘good bargain’ was UK-wide EU membership. We’ve just thrown it away.
    I think not. UK-wide EU membership prohibited enterprise zones, free ports and the like, and NI struggled against the lower corporate tax in the Republic. Now NI can be special for the right reasons, if it can grasp the opportunities its special status permits.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882

    dodrade said:

    In my opinion, the future is looking brighter than it has for a long time for NI within the Union. As a straight up battle between Protestant unionists and Catholic republicans, it was facing gradual demographic extinction. That could all now be overridden, made insignificant, by a new economic role, as a bridge between the UK and EU, enjoying some of the benefits of both. I can see it being useful not just to the UK, but to the ROI - it could lead to a permanent settlement that everyone is happy with.

    I would really like Boris to look at attracting a charter city for anyone who wishes to migrate from Hong Kong to NI, whether that means new enterprise zones etc.
    It's already been considered in the past.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/revealed-british-plan-to-move-hong-kong-to-northern-ireland-1.2272256
    I wondered the same - essentially the NI position is now hugely attractive to business and potential investment, and not one that'll be easy to give up..
    Just wait till the Scottish profgessional and business classes cotton on.

    Some of the fishermen realised some time ago ... but they can move their boats. An Edinburgh LLP or WS can't move the New Town or Fountainbridge office so easily.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/54798942
  • rcs1000 said:

    Of course Richard B Russell was.....er.....a democrat Senator
    The Democrats were the party that opposed blacks being allowed to vote. Indeed, they had segregationist Senators, including one that remained in office until 2010.

    There is no doubt that the Republicans, the party of Lincoln and of Reagan, were the non-racist party.

    There is also no doubt that Lincoln and Reagan, men of enormous personal probity, would be disgusted at Trump.
    Otoh one link between Reagan and Trump was Roy Cohn. Pretty sure Reagan’s disgust would be tempered by what point he was on between arch conservative cold warrior and dead cuddly old duffer on whom folk can impose their own templates.
  • In my opinion, the future is looking brighter than it has for a long time for NI within the Union. As a straight up battle between Protestant unionists and Catholic republicans, it was facing gradual demographic extinction. That could all now be overridden, made insignificant, by a new economic role, as a bridge between the UK and EU, enjoying some of the benefits of both. I can see it being useful not just to the UK, but to the ROI - it could lead to a permanent settlement that everyone is happy with.

    I would really like Boris to look at attracting a charter city for anyone who wishes to migrate from Hong Kong to NI, whether that means new enterprize zones etc.
    The DUP would need to know how many of them might be Catholic before considering your scheme.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,441

    Ireland returns to a full lockdown for a month.

    We need that here too (including schools). As a minimum.

    Sorry to sound like a broken record!
    Ireland won't have Astra Zeneca until February minimum. Grisly
  • Cyclefree said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    RobD said:

    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    No hits on google, so more twitter bollocks.
    It sounds intuitively BS.

    Sort of thing a Remainer would invent, not diplomatic enough for UvDL (even if she thought it she wouldn't say it).
    It’s true though we no longer have frictionless trade with the continent we once had.
    It isn't true. We no longer have frictionless trade but it is not true at all to say we have "won nothing".
    LOL. What are you saying we won? We went backwards in frictionless trade, what did we win in return to account for making our economy, government and households poorer?
    Freedom to control our own laws.
    Freedom to control our own economy.
    Freedom to negotiate better trade deals with fewer red lines.
    Freedom to make our own economy, government and households richer.
    Oh and some fish.
    You haven't read the agreement, have you?

    I'm currently working my way through it. It's dismal how few of Britain's own publicly stated asks it managed to get, despite holding all the cards. Apparently.
    I'm not going to read it.

    If there is something really depressing in it then I have every confidence you or someone like you would post it here - and Scott_P would post 101 Tweets saying how awful it is.

    If the whole FBPE army can't find anything awful for Scott to Tweet here - and from the other side of the fence the ERG, Farage and everyone like that can't find anything to complain about either - then I'm going to assume any alleged awfulness is as real as Russell's Teapot.

    From what I've read it sounds like the UK has got all of its asks, which is good because we held the cards and have played them to the max from what I can see.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,441
    BTW Cyclefree an excellent header. You are always a good writer, sometimes very good, but often you lapse into prolixity.

    This is pointed, witty, clever, and just the right length. Appreciated
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    So. The r rate started falling around the 20th?
    What happened 2 days before?
    Anyone?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,548
    edited December 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    RobD said:

    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    No hits on google, so more twitter bollocks.
    It sounds intuitively BS.

    Sort of thing a Remainer would invent, not diplomatic enough for UvDL (even if she thought it she wouldn't say it).
    It’s true though we no longer have frictionless trade with the continent we once had.
    It isn't true. We no longer have frictionless trade but it is not true at all to say we have "won nothing".
    LOL. What are you saying we won? We went backwards in frictionless trade, what did we win in return to account for making our economy, government and households poorer?
    Freedom to control our own laws.
    Freedom to control our own economy.
    Freedom to negotiate better trade deals with fewer red lines.
    Freedom to make our own economy, government and households richer.
    Oh and some fish.
    You haven't read the agreement, have you?

    I'm currently working my way through it. It's dismal how few of Britain's own publicly stated asks it managed to get, despite holding all the cards. Apparently.
    That is not a refutation of a single one of Philip's points. You are arguing past each other rather than with each other. And that is hardly surprising since you come from fundamentally different viewpoints and value different things. Moreover with your "holding all the cards" comment you are fighting last year's battle. And in the process have missed the fact you have already lost the war. Just has anyone from any side of the argument who is still thinking they can change a single thing in this agreement. It is done. The fact that you, I or Philip might dislike any particular part of it is completely immaterial.

    Edit: and yes I have started reading through specific parts that hold my immediate interest such as the fishing Heading. It is surprising how many false claims are currently being made about just that one Heading that don't match the reality of the document itself.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,478

    In my opinion, the future is looking brighter than it has for a long time for NI within the Union. As a straight up battle between Protestant unionists and Catholic republicans, it was facing gradual demographic extinction. That could all now be overridden, made insignificant, by a new economic role, as a bridge between the UK and EU, enjoying some of the benefits of both. I can see it being useful not just to the UK, but to the ROI - it could lead to a permanent settlement that everyone is happy with.

    I would really like Boris to look at attracting a charter city for anyone who wishes to migrate from Hong Kong to NI, whether that means new enterprize zones etc.
    The DUP would need to know how many of them might be Catholic before considering your scheme.
    I doubt it. I suspect they would feel reasonably confident that the incomers would find the current political arrangements satisfactory, or why would they move there?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    Yorkcity said:

    I know I am biased working for the police for 30 years.
    However I think they do a difficult job for those working on the front line during a pandemic.Many in very close contact with violent people who spit and injure officers.
    Maybe cyclefree omitted them for a reason I very much hope not.

    Why do you think the police were trusted more 30 years ago than today by many people?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    Cyclefree said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    RobD said:

    slade said:

    Just popped up on my Facebook page: 'Britain has won nothing but has lost a continent,' - Ursula van der Leyen. Anyone know the source?

    No hits on google, so more twitter bollocks.
    It sounds intuitively BS.

    Sort of thing a Remainer would invent, not diplomatic enough for UvDL (even if she thought it she wouldn't say it).
    It’s true though we no longer have frictionless trade with the continent we once had.
    It isn't true. We no longer have frictionless trade but it is not true at all to say we have "won nothing".
    LOL. What are you saying we won? We went backwards in frictionless trade, what did we win in return to account for making our economy, government and households poorer?
    Freedom to control our own laws.
    Freedom to control our own economy.
    Freedom to negotiate better trade deals with fewer red lines.
    Freedom to make our own economy, government and households richer.
    Oh and some fish.
    You haven't read the agreement, have you?

    I'm currently working my way through it. It's dismal how few of Britain's own publicly stated asks it managed to get, despite holding all the cards. Apparently.
    Hence why it was bounced through.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1344230499976404992?s=19

    I think the reason that so many Tories are OK with this is that parliamentary careers are now rather short. Most of the Cabinet have been in parliament less than 10 years so have no experience of opposition, and no intention of staying in Parliament were they to become the opposition. As a result they do not fear such powers in the hands of the opposition.

    We have moved from a parliamentary democracy, to one where we get a say in the executive once every few years.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Had a fun pre-Tier 4 panic buying* shopping trip to the local toy superstore today.

    Took the kids to spend their gift cards they got from great-grandparents who couldn't go shopping themselves this year. Was a lot of fun letting them pick out their toys to their budget and the place while not packed was quite busy all with families clearly doing the same thing. Every aisle we bumped into someone else was the same conversation out loud "ok, you have a bit more to spend" or "if you get that, that's all your money now".

    While I fully understand while toy stores are not "essential" I wonder how many kids will be in a similar situation of having received gift cards as Christmas presents only to now potentially not be able to spend them until the Spring.

    * Preplanned with some stuff prebooked to pick up today and kids told yesterday we were going.

    Presumably shopping online with click and collect will still be fine. It is permitted in Tier 4, I believe.
    I suppose so actually; but that's one thing where it isn't the same thing. I mean you could browse the website but then you could just use Amazon too. Taking the kids up and down the aisles is a different story.
    Yes, particularly toddlers like to see things on a shelf. They often don't know what they want until they see it. Click and collect isn't as good, but still possible.
    Precisely. Our youngest found a boxed set of Peppa Pig teddies. She was delighted to pick it off the shelf and put it in the trolley. Taking them up and down the aisles was half the fun, if Click and Collect was the only option that'd be OK for us shopping but I'd have probably saved their cards until the Spring - they'd been given with an apology from their great grandparents that they couldn't go shopping this year so the kids should go pick something for themselves.

    These are the sorts of things that are fun in life, but aren't necessary. I understand it being shut down, its just a shame for those who do miss out - but there are more important things in life.
This discussion has been closed.