Somebody here said the Tories would build lots of houses, that lasted a whole year.
Same old Tories...
No, just more of them will be built in our 20 largest cities, I can tell you here in Epping plans to build all over the greenbelt and our green fields and countryside went down like a cup of cold sick
They're just not going to plug the housing shortage by squeezing in extra flats above shops and from converted office buildings.
I get the argument from the point of view of people in Epping. I'd probably feel the same if I was a councillor in Epping. But if substantial numbers of houses aren't built in places like that, the targets simply won't be met - not a chance.
We are already set to build several thousand new homes, including affordable homes for first time buyers and social homes as part of the Epping Forest DC Local Plan until 2033 however we do not need any more than that.
Plus Epping Forest is a safe Tory seat at Westminster but locally we have lots of Tory council seats that are vulnerable to the LDs and the Greens
More convinced than ever tonight that a prolonged lockdown is coming shortly after Christmas. Seems virtually inevitable. I would expect something akin to April plus schools until at least mid-February, and it might drag on all the way to Easter.
Most of the medical profession already appears to be in a state of complete panic over the Christmas break, and no wonder. Covid has been going on for nearly a year now and everybody has had more than enough of it. I've heard it suggested that the decline in cases started to level off halfway through the second lockdown as adherence waned; there will be more than enough people who will ignore the Government's rules altogether to guarantee a massive spike in transmission over Christmas and a deluge of new patients swamping the healthcare system early in the New Year.
The authorities face a complete no-win scenario here. If they stick with their Christmas plans then they'll be blamed for the consequences; however, if they attempt to cancel Christmas then it might help to reduce the height of the January tsunami wave a little, but it won't stop it because of a combination of lack of compliance and the extreme contagiousness of the virus. When Lockdown 3.0 inevitably commences, the people who didn't bother to follow the rules over Christmas will feel vindicated, those who did will feel like mugs, and an awful lot of people (perhaps a majority) will conclude that all these restrictions aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and come both to resent and to increasingly disregard them.
The most frightened and those with the means to do so will do their best to shield given their circumstances; it'll go like a dose of salts through the rest of the population.
The only thing, in the end, that will finally stop this disease in its tracks is widespread immunisation and warm weather, and neither of those is going to be forthcoming until April at the earliest. The first three months of 2021 are going to be worse than 2020, as the hospitals buckle under the strain and mass unemployment arrives with the final closure of thousands and thousands of forcibly shuttered businesses. It's going to be absolutely bloody terrible.
Still, silver linings: who gives a flying fuck about Brexit anymore? Certainly not me.
Absolutely nailed on. The potential for further infection/death is huge in Q1 2021 unless the government takes firm and urgent action. The key is to apply proper control until end Feb when hopefully most 65+ will have had their second vaccination. Caution still needed in March, hopefully some form of return to normality from April, maybe not entirely until July. The vaccination progress is key.
Yes, but... the notion that the entire pensioner population and all the shielders will have had both shots by the end of February is preposterous. The health service has to pull off this gargantuan logistical challenge whilst firefighting the post-Christmas tsunami of the sick at the same time. It's simply not going to happen on such a timescale.
They'll struggle to get segments 1 and 2 (health and care staff, Shady Pines and the 80-pluses) done by the end of February. I'm afraid that my husband, who's clinically extremely vulnerable and therefore down in segment 4, won't get his vaccinations done until the Spring. Things ought hopefully to improve substantially in April or May once we have a combination of quite a lot of people having been immunised and the return of warmer weather (and we could really, really do with a repeat of the remarkable Spring heatwave we enjoyed, which is just about the only good thing to come out of this stinking year, but I can't believe we'll be that lucky.) We're then reliant on getting to herd immunity by September to avoid going into further endless lockdown cycles.
That, at least, seems achievable, so there is hope. But the dawn has yet to break upon the horizon: there's a very, very long night to get through first.
Given the concentration of the death rate among the 80+ demographic we're likely to see a big reduction in deaths by the end of January.
That at least will give a big boost to public morale.
Even though that might not help those who are also highly vulnerable.
My one worry for vaccinations is that we might unintentionally simultaneously both slash death rates while overwhelming the NHS.
The perverse logic is that the deaths come disproportionately almost entirely from the vulnerable demographics getting vaccinated. So once they're safe very few should die.
But younger adults can still be hospitalised - they just don't tend to die. If people think "wahey its over, granddad's been vaccinated lets get back to normal" we could see an even bigger spike in young people - but no corresponding spike in old people. So large numbers of moderately sick young people who don't die but do need treatment.
Still if the death's stop, that's the main thing.
I doubt there would be many young needing treatment but it could certainly apply to the middle aged.
We could really have done with a general health and fitness campaign this year.
Instead we're going to get the eating and drinking of Christmas.
Yeah its playing on my mind. I was being good during the summer, watching what I ate and doing Joe Wicks workouts with my kids.
Now its mince pies and winter comfort food and alcohol and I can not face exercising outside in this weather. 🤷🏻♂️ 🥧 🍺
Yep. In February-May I lost about 30 lbs and drank nothing for about 3 months as I got fitter to cope with the virus. I've now put nearly 20 of those lbs back on again and struggle to have 2 alcohol free days a week.
You two need a dog
I have one, but its a tiny one we got when my youngest was brand newborn so it gets most of its exercise running in our back garden and up and regularly running up down the stairs. It doesn't particularly like going for walks.
Jack Russell/Chihuahua crossbreed which we chose because they're good with kids even newborns.
More convinced than ever tonight that a prolonged lockdown is coming shortly after Christmas. Seems virtually inevitable. I would expect something akin to April plus schools until at least mid-February, and it might drag on all the way to Easter.
Most of the medical profession already appears to be in a state of complete panic over the Christmas break, and no wonder. Covid has been going on for nearly a year now and everybody has had more than enough of it. I've heard it suggested that the decline in cases started to level off halfway through the second lockdown as adherence waned; there will be more than enough people who will ignore the Government's rules altogether to guarantee a massive spike in transmission over Christmas and a deluge of new patients swamping the healthcare system early in the New Year.
The authorities face a complete no-win scenario here. If they stick with their Christmas plans then they'll be blamed for the consequences; however, if they attempt to cancel Christmas then it might help to reduce the height of the January tsunami wave a little, but it won't stop it because of a combination of lack of compliance and the extreme contagiousness of the virus. When Lockdown 3.0 inevitably commences, the people who didn't bother to follow the rules over Christmas will feel vindicated, those who did will feel like mugs, and an awful lot of people (perhaps a majority) will conclude that all these restrictions aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and come both to resent and to increasingly disregard them.
The most frightened and those with the means to do so will do their best to shield given their circumstances; it'll go like a dose of salts through the rest of the population.
The only thing, in the end, that will finally stop this disease in its tracks is widespread immunisation and warm weather, and neither of those is going to be forthcoming until April at the earliest. The first three months of 2021 are going to be worse than 2020, as the hospitals buckle under the strain and mass unemployment arrives with the final closure of thousands and thousands of forcibly shuttered businesses. It's going to be absolutely bloody terrible.
Still, silver linings: who gives a flying fuck about Brexit anymore? Certainly not me.
Absolutely nailed on. The potential for further infection/death is huge in Q1 2021 unless the government takes firm and urgent action. The key is to apply proper control until end Feb when hopefully most 65+ will have had their second vaccination. Caution still needed in March, hopefully some form of return to normality from April, maybe not entirely until July. The vaccination progress is key.
Yes, but... the notion that the entire pensioner population and all the shielders will have had both shots by the end of February is preposterous. The health service has to pull off this gargantuan logistical challenge whilst firefighting the post-Christmas tsunami of the sick at the same time. It's simply not going to happen on such a timescale.
They'll struggle to get segments 1 and 2 (health and care staff, Shady Pines and the 80-pluses) done by the end of February. I'm afraid that my husband, who's clinically extremely vulnerable and therefore down in segment 4, won't get his vaccinations done until the Spring. Things ought hopefully to improve substantially in April or May once we have a combination of quite a lot of people having been immunised and the return of warmer weather (and we could really, really do with a repeat of the remarkable Spring heatwave we enjoyed, which is just about the only good thing to come out of this stinking year, but I can't believe we'll be that lucky.) We're then reliant on getting to herd immunity by September to avoid going into further endless lockdown cycles.
That, at least, seems achievable, so there is hope. But the dawn has yet to break upon the horizon: there's a very, very long night to get through first.
Given the concentration of the death rate among the 80+ demographic we're likely to see a big reduction in deaths by the end of January.
That at least will give a big boost to public morale.
Even though that might not help those who are also highly vulnerable.
My one worry for vaccinations is that we might unintentionally simultaneously both slash death rates while overwhelming the NHS.
The perverse logic is that the deaths come disproportionately almost entirely from the vulnerable demographics getting vaccinated. So once they're safe very few should die.
But younger adults can still be hospitalised - they just don't tend to die. If people think "wahey its over, granddad's been vaccinated lets get back to normal" we could see an even bigger spike in young people - but no corresponding spike in old people. So large numbers of moderately sick young people who don't die but do need treatment.
Still if the death's stop, that's the main thing.
I doubt there would be many young needing treatment but it could certainly apply to the middle aged.
We could really have done with a general health and fitness campaign this year.
Instead we're going to get the eating and drinking of Christmas.
Yeah its playing on my mind. I was being good during the summer, watching what I ate and doing Joe Wicks workouts with my kids.
Now its mince pies and winter comfort food and alcohol and I can not face exercising outside in this weather. 🤷🏻♂️ 🥧 🍺
Yep. In February-May I lost about 30 lbs and drank nothing for about 3 months as I got fitter to cope with the virus. I've now put nearly 20 of those lbs back on again and struggle to have 2 alcohol free days a week.
You two need a dog
I have one, but its a tiny one we got when my youngest was brand newborn so it gets most of its exercise running in our back garden and up and regularly running up down the stairs. It doesn't particularly like going for walks.
Jack Russell/Chihuahua crossbreed which we chose because they're good with kids even newborns.
When house prices have risen again by 2024 and the targets have been missed again and again, Tories here will still insist the Tories will do better next time.
I am tired of hearing it, they won't. They are not interested.
Hang on. Didn't house prices go up more during the Blair years?
That was indeed one of the biggest failures of New Labour.
That is a bold, gutsy call. There were so many big failures of New Labour.
I am not even sure housing is in the top 5 of the biggest failures of New Labour.
More convinced than ever tonight that a prolonged lockdown is coming shortly after Christmas. Seems virtually inevitable. I would expect something akin to April plus schools until at least mid-February, and it might drag on all the way to Easter.
Most of the medical profession already appears to be in a state of complete panic over the Christmas break, and no wonder. Covid has been going on for nearly a year now and everybody has had more than enough of it. I've heard it suggested that the decline in cases started to level off halfway through the second lockdown as adherence waned; there will be more than enough people who will ignore the Government's rules altogether to guarantee a massive spike in transmission over Christmas and a deluge of new patients swamping the healthcare system early in the New Year.
The authorities face a complete no-win scenario here. If they stick with their Christmas plans then they'll be blamed for the consequences; however, if they attempt to cancel Christmas then it might help to reduce the height of the January tsunami wave a little, but it won't stop it because of a combination of lack of compliance and the extreme contagiousness of the virus. When Lockdown 3.0 inevitably commences, the people who didn't bother to follow the rules over Christmas will feel vindicated, those who did will feel like mugs, and an awful lot of people (perhaps a majority) will conclude that all these restrictions aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and come both to resent and to increasingly disregard them.
The most frightened and those with the means to do so will do their best to shield given their circumstances; it'll go like a dose of salts through the rest of the population.
The only thing, in the end, that will finally stop this disease in its tracks is widespread immunisation and warm weather, and neither of those is going to be forthcoming until April at the earliest. The first three months of 2021 are going to be worse than 2020, as the hospitals buckle under the strain and mass unemployment arrives with the final closure of thousands and thousands of forcibly shuttered businesses. It's going to be absolutely bloody terrible.
Still, silver linings: who gives a flying fuck about Brexit anymore? Certainly not me.
Absolutely nailed on. The potential for further infection/death is huge in Q1 2021 unless the government takes firm and urgent action. The key is to apply proper control until end Feb when hopefully most 65+ will have had their second vaccination. Caution still needed in March, hopefully some form of return to normality from April, maybe not entirely until July. The vaccination progress is key.
Yes, but... the notion that the entire pensioner population and all the shielders will have had both shots by the end of February is preposterous. The health service has to pull off this gargantuan logistical challenge whilst firefighting the post-Christmas tsunami of the sick at the same time. It's simply not going to happen on such a timescale.
They'll struggle to get segments 1 and 2 (health and care staff, Shady Pines and the 80-pluses) done by the end of February. I'm afraid that my husband, who's clinically extremely vulnerable and therefore down in segment 4, won't get his vaccinations done until the Spring. Things ought hopefully to improve substantially in April or May once we have a combination of quite a lot of people having been immunised and the return of warmer weather (and we could really, really do with a repeat of the remarkable Spring heatwave we enjoyed, which is just about the only good thing to come out of this stinking year, but I can't believe we'll be that lucky.) We're then reliant on getting to herd immunity by September to avoid going into further endless lockdown cycles.
That, at least, seems achievable, so there is hope. But the dawn has yet to break upon the horizon: there's a very, very long night to get through first.
Given the concentration of the death rate among the 80+ demographic we're likely to see a big reduction in deaths by the end of January.
That at least will give a big boost to public morale.
Even though that might not help those who are also highly vulnerable.
My one worry for vaccinations is that we might unintentionally simultaneously both slash death rates while overwhelming the NHS.
The perverse logic is that the deaths come disproportionately almost entirely from the vulnerable demographics getting vaccinated. So once they're safe very few should die.
But younger adults can still be hospitalised - they just don't tend to die. If people think "wahey its over, granddad's been vaccinated lets get back to normal" we could see an even bigger spike in young people - but no corresponding spike in old people. So large numbers of moderately sick young people who don't die but do need treatment.
Still if the death's stop, that's the main thing.
I doubt there would be many young needing treatment but it could certainly apply to the middle aged.
We could really have done with a general health and fitness campaign this year.
Instead we're going to get the eating and drinking of Christmas.
Yeah its playing on my mind. I was being good during the summer, watching what I ate and doing Joe Wicks workouts with my kids.
Now its mince pies and winter comfort food and alcohol and I can not face exercising outside in this weather. 🤷🏻♂️ 🥧 🍺
Yep. In February-May I lost about 30 lbs and drank nothing for about 3 months as I got fitter to cope with the virus. I've now put nearly 20 of those lbs back on again and struggle to have 2 alcohol free days a week.
You two need a dog
I have one, but its a tiny one we got when my youngest was brand newborn so it gets most of its exercise running in our back garden and up and regularly running up down the stairs. It doesn't particularly like going for walks.
Jack Russell/Chihuahua crossbreed which we chose because they're good with kids even newborns.
More convinced than ever tonight that a prolonged lockdown is coming shortly after Christmas. Seems virtually inevitable. I would expect something akin to April plus schools until at least mid-February, and it might drag on all the way to Easter.
Most of the medical profession already appears to be in a state of complete panic over the Christmas break, and no wonder. Covid has been going on for nearly a year now and everybody has had more than enough of it. I've heard it suggested that the decline in cases started to level off halfway through the second lockdown as adherence waned; there will be more than enough people who will ignore the Government's rules altogether to guarantee a massive spike in transmission over Christmas and a deluge of new patients swamping the healthcare system early in the New Year.
The authorities face a complete no-win scenario here. If they stick with their Christmas plans then they'll be blamed for the consequences; however, if they attempt to cancel Christmas then it might help to reduce the height of the January tsunami wave a little, but it won't stop it because of a combination of lack of compliance and the extreme contagiousness of the virus. When Lockdown 3.0 inevitably commences, the people who didn't bother to follow the rules over Christmas will feel vindicated, those who did will feel like mugs, and an awful lot of people (perhaps a majority) will conclude that all these restrictions aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and come both to resent and to increasingly disregard them.
The most frightened and those with the means to do so will do their best to shield given their circumstances; it'll go like a dose of salts through the rest of the population.
The only thing, in the end, that will finally stop this disease in its tracks is widespread immunisation and warm weather, and neither of those is going to be forthcoming until April at the earliest. The first three months of 2021 are going to be worse than 2020, as the hospitals buckle under the strain and mass unemployment arrives with the final closure of thousands and thousands of forcibly shuttered businesses. It's going to be absolutely bloody terrible.
Still, silver linings: who gives a flying fuck about Brexit anymore? Certainly not me.
Absolutely nailed on. The potential for further infection/death is huge in Q1 2021 unless the government takes firm and urgent action. The key is to apply proper control until end Feb when hopefully most 65+ will have had their second vaccination. Caution still needed in March, hopefully some form of return to normality from April, maybe not entirely until July. The vaccination progress is key.
Yes, but... the notion that the entire pensioner population and all the shielders will have had both shots by the end of February is preposterous. The health service has to pull off this gargantuan logistical challenge whilst firefighting the post-Christmas tsunami of the sick at the same time. It's simply not going to happen on such a timescale.
They'll struggle to get segments 1 and 2 (health and care staff, Shady Pines and the 80-pluses) done by the end of February. I'm afraid that my husband, who's clinically extremely vulnerable and therefore down in segment 4, won't get his vaccinations done until the Spring. Things ought hopefully to improve substantially in April or May once we have a combination of quite a lot of people having been immunised and the return of warmer weather (and we could really, really do with a repeat of the remarkable Spring heatwave we enjoyed, which is just about the only good thing to come out of this stinking year, but I can't believe we'll be that lucky.) We're then reliant on getting to herd immunity by September to avoid going into further endless lockdown cycles.
That, at least, seems achievable, so there is hope. But the dawn has yet to break upon the horizon: there's a very, very long night to get through first.
Given the concentration of the death rate among the 80+ demographic we're likely to see a big reduction in deaths by the end of January.
That at least will give a big boost to public morale.
Even though that might not help those who are also highly vulnerable.
My one worry for vaccinations is that we might unintentionally simultaneously both slash death rates while overwhelming the NHS.
The perverse logic is that the deaths come disproportionately almost entirely from the vulnerable demographics getting vaccinated. So once they're safe very few should die.
But younger adults can still be hospitalised - they just don't tend to die. If people think "wahey its over, granddad's been vaccinated lets get back to normal" we could see an even bigger spike in young people - but no corresponding spike in old people. So large numbers of moderately sick young people who don't die but do need treatment.
Still if the death's stop, that's the main thing.
I doubt there would be many young needing treatment but it could certainly apply to the middle aged.
We could really have done with a general health and fitness campaign this year.
Instead we're going to get the eating and drinking of Christmas.
Yeah its playing on my mind. I was being good during the summer, watching what I ate and doing Joe Wicks workouts with my kids.
Now its mince pies and winter comfort food and alcohol and I can not face exercising outside in this weather. 🤷🏻♂️ 🥧 🍺
Yep. In February-May I lost about 30 lbs and drank nothing for about 3 months as I got fitter to cope with the virus. I've now put nearly 20 of those lbs back on again and struggle to have 2 alcohol free days a week.
You two need a dog
I have one, but its a tiny one we got when my youngest was brand newborn so it gets most of its exercise running in our back garden and up and regularly running up down the stairs. It doesn't particularly like going for walks.
Jack Russell/Chihuahua crossbreed which we chose because they're good with kids even newborns.
I can lend you a border collie if you like.
We have yet to discover its maximum range.
Ooh border collie's are very nice dogs. One of our neighbours has one - it looks like it could swallow ours in one go and not even notice it.
When house prices have risen again by 2024 and the targets have been missed again and again, Tories here will still insist the Tories will do better next time.
I am tired of hearing it, they won't. They are not interested.
Hang on. Didn't house prices go up more during the Blair years?
That was indeed one of the biggest failures of New Labour.
That is a bold, gutsy call. There were so many big failures of New Labour.
I am not even sure housing is in the top 5 of the biggest failures of New Labour.
New Labour had the reverse Midas Touch.
At first everything seemed to go right for Teflon Tony but almost everything he did turned to shit in the end.
I would put housing in the top 5 failures though. The collapse in home ownership, especially in my generation and younger, was absolutely massive in Tony Blair's era and has taken years to recover.
The irony is today's young voters worship Labour but the worst of their problems trace back to Tony Blair absolutely screwing over the young.
I bet that @CorrectHorseBattery couldn't imagine that in 1998 just 35% of 25-34 year olds were renting.
Somebody here said the Tories would build lots of houses, that lasted a whole year.
Same old Tories...
No, just more of them will be built in our 20 largest cities, I can tell you here in Epping plans to build all over the greenbelt and our green fields and countryside went down like a cup of cold sick
They're just not going to plug the housing shortage by squeezing in extra flats above shops and from converted office buildings.
I get the argument from the point of view of people in Epping. I'd probably feel the same if I was a councillor in Epping. But if substantial numbers of houses aren't built in places like that, the targets simply won't be met - not a chance.
We are already set to build several thousand new homes, including affordable homes for first time buyers and social homes as part of the Epping Forest DC Local Plan until 2033 however we do not need any more than that.
Plus Epping Forest is a safe Tory seat at Westminster but locally we have lots of Tory council seats that are vulnerable to the LDs and the Greens
Like I say, I get your local argument. But the meeting the targets is dependent on very aggressive growth in locations like Epping. If that sort of place changes the policy, then fair play to them.
But it kills the idea of meeting the targets previously set. Saying "shift it to the large cities" is simply for the birds. You won't get anything like the numbers to offset. That's the reality.
Just need another crash and then maybe rents will come down to a reasonable level. I am joking.
Of course this is the Government who had MPs that literally voted against making houses inhabitable, so there you go.
In 2024 I guarantee house prices will still be ridiculous and we'll be having the same people saying "just wait a bit longer it will all get better soon".
1. The Tories deselect Nick Ramsey, AM for Monmouth. Excepting of course Mark Reckless, Nick Ramsay is the most obnoxious AM in the Senedd.
He sued the Welsh Tories & his own Welsh constituency party, after being arrested for assault.
2. The LibDems select their candidate for Brecon & Radnorshire. There are not many of these small scurrying rodents left in Wales, they are critically endangered.
It was expected to be a shoo-in for Jane Dodds. She is the Welsh Lib Dem leader who lives in South West London & the winner of a famous Remainer by-election last year. Many of the pb great & good campaigned for her then.
Alas, it was not to be, and the local party members preferred someone who lives in Talgarth -- which surprisingly for the LibDems is in the constituency & is not a suburb of London -- William Powell.
There has been a lot of well-informed discussion on Twitter* on the question of whether it is legally and politically possible to agree a deal at this ludicrously late stage and have it apply on Jan 1st.
For example, see here and the various replies to this tweet and the quoted thread:
The truth seems to be that no-one really knows. It might be possible to fudge something, but it's far from certain. There might have to be some chaotic interlude where no-one quite knows what the rules are, and tariffs might have to be collected and possibly reimbursed later. Whatever happens, it's a God-awful mess.
* I know, I know - but if you follow the right people, there's a a lot of good stuff there.
I think if there is a deal done then it will go into "provisional effect" or something and it will include a 6 month "deal implementation period" that essentially looks the same as the current transition period and comes with membership fees. That's the kind of fudge that would work becuase Boris gets his deal and 6 more months to figure out the customs border and supply chain changes, the EU gets 6 months to get it through 27 different parliaments and a €6bn bung.
Good thread besides 25/25 which is petty and silly.
There's no deal yet because both sides are still negotiating and moving very slowly not because anyone isn't making a decision.
And the issue arises because the EP is stuffed full of second rate politicians who have been ignored so far and are desperate to have their moment in the sun.
Even if it is achieved by going on holiday.
If it really is a choice between applying the thumbscrews to the EP and a no deal because they won't ratify it, I'd imagine the pressure would be intense
Newsnight saying Tory MPs will not allow Boris to be the first British leader to cancel Christmas since Cromwell
What a joke. That sort of nonsense is stupid.
People will ignore it and do as they please is the real issue.
So the policy is the policy only on basis any other policy would just get ignored?
Alternatively you’ve seen the brexit/trump papers this evening telling Boris there will be no U turn on this one, not the other way around. The wrong policy is the policy because the PM is not strong enough to achieve the right one.
He knows it, everyone on here knows it, you know it.
One thing I'm curious to see is the net migration figures for 2020 when they're released next year. We've had net-immigration over 200k per annum typically for years but with Covid19 dropping passenger arrivals by 99% in the summer it wouldn't surprise me if there's been a mammoth drop this year.
Indeed since many people may have chosen the pandemic as a time to return 'home' if the UK wasn't their permanent home by now, we could even have net emigration for the first time in decades.
If that happens it will be all to be to do with Covid19 and nothing to do with Brexit but it could be an interesting quirk in the first post-Brexit year if that does happen.
Newsnight saying Tory MPs will not allow Boris to be the first British leader to cancel Christmas since Cromwell
What a joke. That sort of nonsense is stupid.
People will ignore it and do as they please is the real issue.
So the policy is the policy only on basis any other policy would just get ignored?
Alternatively you’ve seen the brexit/trump papers this evening telling Boris there will be no U turn on this one, not the other way around. The wrong policy is the policy because the PM is not strong enough to achieve the right one.
He knows it, everyone on here knows it, you know it.
Yes any other policy would get ignored. We've had nine months of lockdown. Some people will see their family on Christmas and damn the rules.
We won't, whether its allowed or not, but I know others will.
After nine months of this it isn't about ordering people what to do or not do, it is more about convincing people to do the right thing.
One thing I'm curious to see is the net migration figures for 2020 when they're released next year. We've had net-immigration over 200k per annum typically for years but with Covid19 dropping passenger arrivals by 99% in the summer it wouldn't surprise me if there's been a mammoth drop this year.
Indeed since many people may have chosen the pandemic as a time to return 'home' if the UK wasn't their permanent home by now, we could even have net emigration for the first time in decades.
If that happens it will be all to be to do with Covid19 and nothing to do with Brexit but it could be an interesting quirk in the first post-Brexit year if that does happen.
Yes I agree with you. At first glance history books will show we brexited, and achieved net emigration, and in 2021 record economic growth and job creation.
On second glance though UK will be a basket case on verge of breaking up.
When house prices have risen again by 2024 and the targets have been missed again and again, Tories here will still insist the Tories will do better next time.
I am tired of hearing it, they won't. They are not interested.
Hang on. Didn't house prices go up more during the Blair years?
Anyhow, I’m relaxed about achieving a proper brexit deal now Boris has caved on ratchet clause, it shows he is in deal making mindset doesn’t it. though we haven’t heard about EU giving ground yet, so maybe they are still playing Boris for even more concessions.
Here are the rules. Please ignore them and follow the advice.
But they promised to save xmas. It said so, in big letters all over the newspapers.
Seriously: Who cares?
Does anyone? Hand on heart honestly give a shit what newspapers months ago said?
We have a vaccine now. Getting the virus now is like going over the top in autumn 1918.
Oldies care.
Kids want to play with their toys and have time off school.
Workers want to relax and have time off work.
But oldies want to 'see the family'.
Do they? Do they actually want to?
My family may be different but we've all agreed between ourselves that nobody is meeting up at all. Even if I wanted to see them, they wouldn't see us anyway.
Prior to this year I've for a long time treated Christmas with my grandparents as if it could be my last with them, I'm incredibly fortunate to still have all of mine (my wife has lost all of hers) but this year they're shielding and won't even contemplate seeing anyone.
I could never live with myself if I saw them and then a week later they were diagnosed and the worst should happen.
Has Olivia Colman been elevated to National Treasure status now? Jeeze, things are worse then I thought.
Btw, good to see BlackRook back with some more relentlessly positive posts. I was beginning to worry for her.
I find Black Rook’s posts unreadable these days. It’s just doom-porn, not really a niche in the market for that on PB.
By contrast let a thousand flowers bloom. Since the beginning of this the pessimist has been vindicated more often than not.
Have they?
Sean Eadric Byronic was going on about 300,000 dead. People questioned whether having had it provided any kind of immunity. And many thought a vaccine in 2021 would be a miracle.
If AZ and J&J are both approved (and can deliver according to contract), then the uk government will receive more than 200 million doses in 2021. (And J&J is single dose, of course.)
Alternatively, if neither is approved and Moderna and Pfizer struggle with manufacturing then it might be just 5 or 10 million. There are a very wide range of possible outcomes.
When house prices have risen again by 2024 and the targets have been missed again and again, Tories here will still insist the Tories will do better next time.
I am tired of hearing it, they won't. They are not interested.
Hang on. Didn't house prices go up more during the Blair years?
That was indeed oconstne of the biggest failures of New Labour.
That is a bold, gutsy call. There were so many big failures of New Labour.
I am not even sure housing is in the top 5 of the biggest failures of New Labour.
Iraq, constitutional reform and ending boom and bust (Brown's free rein) are all in that 5. Housing is fighting for one of the last two slots in a crowded field.
Comments
Plus Epping Forest is a safe Tory seat at Westminster but locally we have lots of Tory council seats that are vulnerable to the LDs and the Greens
Especially in the now-blue wall.
We have yet to discover its maximum range.
I am not even sure housing is in the top 5 of the biggest failures of New Labour.
At first everything seemed to go right for Teflon Tony but almost everything he did turned to shit in the end.
I would put housing in the top 5 failures though. The collapse in home ownership, especially in my generation and younger, was absolutely massive in Tony Blair's era and has taken years to recover.
The irony is today's young voters worship Labour but the worst of their problems trace back to Tony Blair absolutely screwing over the young.
I bet that @CorrectHorseBattery couldn't imagine that in 1998 just 35% of 25-34 year olds were renting.
But it kills the idea of meeting the targets previously set. Saying "shift it to the large cities" is simply for the birds. You won't get anything like the numbers to offset. That's the reality.
Of course this is the Government who had MPs that literally voted against making houses inhabitable, so there you go.
In 2024 I guarantee house prices will still be ridiculous and we'll be having the same people saying "just wait a bit longer it will all get better soon".
Goodnight.
Good to see some good non Brexit related posts!
1. The Tories deselect Nick Ramsey, AM for Monmouth. Excepting of course Mark Reckless, Nick Ramsay is the most obnoxious AM in the Senedd.
He sued the Welsh Tories & his own Welsh constituency party, after being arrested for assault.
2. The LibDems select their candidate for Brecon & Radnorshire. There are not many of these small scurrying rodents left in Wales, they are critically endangered.
It was expected to be a shoo-in for Jane Dodds. She is the Welsh Lib Dem leader who lives in South West London & the winner of a famous Remainer by-election last year. Many of the pb great & good campaigned for her then.
Alas, it was not to be, and the local party members preferred someone who lives in Talgarth -- which surprisingly for the LibDems is in the constituency & is not a suburb of London -- William Powell.
Even if it is achieved by going on holiday.
If it really is a choice between applying the thumbscrews to the EP and a no deal because they won't ratify it, I'd imagine the pressure would be intense
Alternatively you’ve seen the brexit/trump papers this evening telling Boris there will be no U turn on this one, not the other way around. The wrong policy is the policy because the PM is not strong enough to achieve the right one.
He knows it, everyone on here knows it, you know it.
Indeed since many people may have chosen the pandemic as a time to return 'home' if the UK wasn't their permanent home by now, we could even have net emigration for the first time in decades.
If that happens it will be all to be to do with Covid19 and nothing to do with Brexit but it could be an interesting quirk in the first post-Brexit year if that does happen.
We won't, whether its allowed or not, but I know others will.
After nine months of this it isn't about ordering people what to do or not do, it is more about convincing people to do the right thing.
On second glance though UK will be a basket case on verge of breaking up.
Sean Eadric Byronic was going on about 300,000 dead. People questioned whether having had it provided any kind of immunity. And many thought a vaccine in 2021 would be a miracle.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/16/tensions-mount-over-handling-of-uk-covid-vaccine-rollout
https://twitter.com/amyklobuchar/status/1338957366566522882?s=21
If AZ and J&J are both approved (and can deliver according to contract), then the uk government will receive more than 200 million doses in 2021. (And J&J is single dose, of course.)
Alternatively, if neither is approved and Moderna and Pfizer struggle with manufacturing then it might be just 5 or 10 million. There are a very wide range of possible outcomes.