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The Martingale system – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,694
edited December 2020 in General
The Martingale system – politicalbetting.com

How it started How it's going pic.twitter.com/gx0lkFGYR1

Read the full story here

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited December 2020
    BBC presenter James Wong is criticised after claiming British gardening culture is 'racist' due to its use of terms like 'heritage' and 'native'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9047499/BBC-presenter-James-Wong-criticised-claiming-British-gardening-culture-racist.html

    ...this guy was taking the piss, but it appears people seem to think it was a manual to be followed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrK_HVGOnUo
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    Completely off topic, a little thread:

    https://twitter.com/marketwarbles/status/1337989228802629633
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    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited December 2020
    An excellent header, and one of the most comprehensive and concise I've seen on this site.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,029

    An excellent header, and one of the most comprehensive and concise I've seen on this site.

    Agree; we appear to be being led towards a economic disaster comparable to, in military terms, the Fall of Singapore.
    Fortunately that was reversed three years later; it is to be hoped that this will be.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,082

    Agree; we appear to be being led towards a economic disaster comparable to, in military terms, the Fall of Singapore.
    Fortunately that was reversed three years later; it is to be hoped that this will be.

    https://twitter.com/flatstreet101/status/1337453159883677697
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,082
    Tragic

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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    edited December 2020
    An excellent thread Alastair if somewhat apocalyptic. Following your two accurate predictions one of my own. The Johnson administration will face a backlash the like of which few governments have faced in peacetime.

    .....and as for Johnson himself.....his legacy will be his name. 'Boris' will enter the world's dictionaries.

    BORIS (noun/adjective) A vain leader who destroys their country.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,018
    We now appear to be at the 'Bleeding Kansas' stage of the civil war.

    If history is any guide the next event will be Charles Sumner style caning on the floor of the Senate. Let's hope it's Cocaine Mitch that gets thrashed to within an inch of his life.
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    The most dangerous aspect of this nihilistic Martingale rampage is that quite a lot of more-or-less rational Leavers (and some of the 'I voted Remain but we must Leave!' lads) approve of the gunboats and foot stamping approach, and are reinforced in their 'visceral and limitless hatred of the EU'; the search for traitors is well under way. The only mild sign of doubt is whether to blame the French or the Germans most.

    Remortgage the house (again), max the credit cards, another pay day loan, sell the kids into indentured servitude, with a bit of luck we'll get back all that we've lost. We'll still be stuck with the corrosive division and hatred, BUT IT'LL HAVE ALL BEEN WORTH IT!

    https://www.gamcare.org.uk
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    Good morning, everyone.

    Ah, Martingale. The system that massively increases your chance of a modest win and makes every loss catastrophic.

    Mr. Urquhart, Wong blocked me as a Twitter follower after I (politely) disagreed with his use of the term 'white privilege'. Only a couple of others have done likewise (one when I pointed out Irene wasn't necessarily a feminine role model given she usurped the throne and mutilated her son so badly he died of his wounds, and the other a contributor to the Guardian with whom I'd had a number of polite and civil back-and-forths, which does make me wonder if it was a list matter).

    Anyway, on to more pleasant thoughts: perusing the F1 markets.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,082
    From January 1st the people directly in charge of our continued supply of food and medicines are these muppets


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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321
    Scott_xP said:

    From January 1st the people directly in charge of our continued supply of food and medicines are these muppets


    If I know Michael Gove, he’ll make thorough, careful and meticulous arrangements to import food, overruling expert advice as unneeded or alarmist, and then find to his dismay that he’s accidentally imported only food storage containers instead.

    He will then insist everyone eat them...
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,082
    edited December 2020
    ydoethur said:

    If I know Michael Gove, he’ll make thorough, careful and meticulous arrangements to import food, overruling expert advice as unneeded or alarmist, and then find to his dismay that he’s accidentally imported only food storage containers instead.

    He will then insist everyone eat them...

    The Sunday Times story about the planning is terrifying.

    As a journalist, Gove has imagined all the headlines he doesn't want to see then dreamt up a solution, but the solutions don't appear to have included asking anyone if they might work or not.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    rcs1000 said:
    History of US elections suggest people do try to steal them sometimes?

    And fairly obviously there is a long and extensive history of voter suppression. Is it dehumanising to state this fact?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321
    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    If I know Michael Gove, he’ll make thorough, careful and meticulous arrangements to import food, overruling expert advice as unneeded or alarmist, and then find to his dismay that he’s accidentally imported only food storage containers instead.

    He will then insist everyone eat them...

    The Sunday Times story about the planning is terrifying.

    As a journalist, Gove has imagined all the headlines he doesn't want to see then dreamt up a solution, but the solutions don't appear to have included asking anyone if they might work or not.
    Sounds about right.

    The problem is, as a disciple of Cummings he genuinely doesn’t think experts are anything other than corrupt vested interests (or ‘blobs’). The possibility that they might be experts because they are intelligent and knowledgeable, and might disagree because they are more intelligent and more knowledgeable than him, simply doesn’t cross his mind.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,029
    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    If I know Michael Gove, he’ll make thorough, careful and meticulous arrangements to import food, overruling expert advice as unneeded or alarmist, and then find to his dismay that he’s accidentally imported only food storage containers instead.

    He will then insist everyone eat them...

    The Sunday Times story about the planning is terrifying.

    As a journalist, Gove has imagined all the headlines he doesn't want to see then dreamt up a solution, but the solutions don't appear to have included asking anyone if they might work or not.
    According to Sky a 'Government spokesman' they've practised every single foreseeable scenario' and there resulting plans work in real life, not just on paper'.

    I'd believe the spokesperson, except that nothing whatsoever has leaked out. And I return to my Singapore analogy; plans had been drawn up for everything except what actually happened.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321

    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    If I know Michael Gove, he’ll make thorough, careful and meticulous arrangements to import food, overruling expert advice as unneeded or alarmist, and then find to his dismay that he’s accidentally imported only food storage containers instead.

    He will then insist everyone eat them...

    The Sunday Times story about the planning is terrifying.

    As a journalist, Gove has imagined all the headlines he doesn't want to see then dreamt up a solution, but the solutions don't appear to have included asking anyone if they might work or not.
    According to Sky a 'Government spokesman' they've practised every single foreseeable scenario' and there resulting plans work in real life, not just on paper'.

    I'd believe the spokesperson, except that nothing whatsoever has leaked out. And I return to my Singapore analogy; plans had been drawn up for everything except what actually happened.
    Well, the guns are facing the English Channel to repel those pesky French fishermen...
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321

    The most dangerous aspect of this nihilistic Martingale rampage is that quite a lot of more-or-less rational Leavers (and some of the 'I voted Remain but we must Leave!' lads) approve of the gunboats and foot stamping approach, and are reinforced in their 'visceral and limitless hatred of the EU'; the search for traitors is well under way. The only mild sign of doubt is whether to blame the French or the Germans most.

    Remortgage the house (again), max the credit cards, another pay day loan, sell the kids into indentured servitude, with a bit of luck we'll get back all that we've lost. We'll still be stuck with the corrosive division and hatred, BUT IT'LL HAVE ALL BEEN WORTH IT!

    https://www.gamcare.org.uk

    And just think, in an Indy Scotland you can go through all this again. Two for one offer.
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    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited December 2020
    This is partly the result of rule by shallow, posturing and often demagogic journalists, rather than experts, and is also testament to the still outsize and distorting influence of the British print media.

    On the eve of disaster, here are the two seasoned, experienced, press hacks, Johnson and Gove, knowing exactly which lines to feed to organs like the Mail on Sunday, then gratefully received, and whose website is currently almost besieged by supporters ready to take to the Channel to defend the fishermen.

    This is a reality you'll almost never see written up in the British press, including the Guardian or Mirror, who closed ranks to prevent anything further after Leveson.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,082
    Also from the Sunday times. Sheep farmers in Cumbria

    Father and son both voted to leave the European Union, disillusioned with what John describes as a “restrictive bureaucracy”. However, they feel that the government is now “going back on its word”.

    Richard said: “A lot of rules and regulations, they’re from the EU, and this country seems to follow them to the letter of the law. It was promised, before Brexit, before the referendum, that these rules would be lifted. I think things are going to get more complicated.”

    The Pedleys fear that a no-deal Brexit could also see British farmers being priced out by cheaper imports from abroad.


    They believed BoZo, and now they are going to get their reward...
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    rcs1000 said:
    Hmm, not convinced. I think there are circumstances where I might help steal an election if I thought I could get away with it (think Hitler, 1932) and there's a well-documented history in the US and elsewhere that people have.

    There's a problem of how big the conspiracy has to be before it's no longer credible, but that's more a matter of people not being able to keep a really big conspiracy secret and not being able to avoid including defectors, rather than there not being able to find enough conspirators.
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    Betting Post

    F1: last in-season tip of the year. I found it hard to find anything that really appealed but the best of what I saw was Verstappen at 2.58 for the win (Betfair Exchange):
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2020/12/abu-dhabi-pre-race-2020.html

    Whatever the result, the 2020 total will be marginally better than 2019, if more lopsided towards the first half (possibly due to some significant luck). That discounts the Perez/Hamilton-related profits of Sakhir, which were not tipped in a blog, of course.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,320

    An excellent header, and one of the most comprehensive and concise I've seen on this site.

    Indeed. And a very rare appearance for “diehard” in a header; since we know that HY doesn’t write headers, Christmas must be coming..
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321

    rcs1000 said:
    Hmm, not convinced. I think there are circumstances where I might help steal an election if I thought I could get away with it (think Hitler, 1932) and there's a well-documented history in the US and elsewhere that people have.

    There's a problem of how big the conspiracy has to be before it's no longer credible, but that's more a matter of people not being able to keep a really big conspiracy secret and not being able to avoid including defectors, rather than there not being able to find enough conspirators.
    Hitler lost fair and square in 1932. Do you mean March 1933?
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    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Hmm, not convinced. I think there are circumstances where I might help steal an election if I thought I could get away with it (think Hitler, 1932) and there's a well-documented history in the US and elsewhere that people have.

    There's a problem of how big the conspiracy has to be before it's no longer credible, but that's more a matter of people not being able to keep a really big conspiracy secret and not being able to avoid including defectors, rather than there not being able to find enough conspirators.
    Hitler lost fair and square in 1932. Do you mean March 1933?
    Sorry, yes.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,320

    The most dangerous aspect of this nihilistic Martingale rampage is that quite a lot of more-or-less rational Leavers (and some of the 'I voted Remain but we must Leave!' lads) approve of the gunboats and foot stamping approach, and are reinforced in their 'visceral and limitless hatred of the EU'; the search for traitors is well under way. The only mild sign of doubt is whether to blame the French or the Germans most.

    Remortgage the house (again), max the credit cards, another pay day loan, sell the kids into indentured servitude, with a bit of luck we'll get back all that we've lost. We'll still be stuck with the corrosive division and hatred, BUT IT'LL HAVE ALL BEEN WORTH IT!

    https://www.gamcare.org.uk

    The gunboat stuff is the dead cat. They know that TV footage of a Royal Navy ship seeing off some French fishermen will lead the news, pushing the more mundane stories of price rises and small business bankruptcy off the headlines.
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977
    Really enjoyable article. I expect some short term issue as Alistair has noted.

    ..I'm just not convinced we know the longer term implications of Brexit with any certainity just yet. Who knows where we'll be in 40 years time looking back.
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    Also from the Sunday Times. If the ST is the Voice of Rupert (it went Leave on 2016, unlike the daily), this government is in deep doodoo...

    Johnson had reluctantly sided with the scientists and was preparing for a quick lockdown in the week of Monday, September 21, backed by his then chief adviser, Dominic Cummings. Two key members of his cabinet — Matt Hancock, the health secretary, and Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister — were also supporting tougher restrictions.

    But Sunak wanted a different strategy. Faced with dire predictions that half a million people could be made redundant in the autumn, he strongly opposed a second lockdown, which some economists were saying would wreak further havoc on Britain’s already limping economy.
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    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:
    History of US elections suggest people do try to steal them sometimes?

    And fairly obviously there is a long and extensive history of voter suppression. Is it dehumanising to state this fact?
    Well yes, we can see Trump blatantly trying to steal one now.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321

    Also from the Sunday Times. If the ST is the Voice of Rupert (it went Leave on 2016, unlike the daily), this government is in deep doodoo...

    Johnson had reluctantly sided with the scientists and was preparing for a quick lockdown in the week of Monday, September 21, backed by his then chief adviser, Dominic Cummings. Two key members of his cabinet — Matt Hancock, the health secretary, and Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister — were also supporting tougher restrictions.

    But Sunak wanted a different strategy. Faced with dire predictions that half a million people could be made redundant in the autumn, he strongly opposed a second lockdown, which some economists were saying would wreak further havoc on Britain’s already limping economy.

    The real mistake here- and in Wales, for the matter of that - was not closing schools for two weeks at half term. That would have made a vast amount of sense on a huge number of levels. In all likelihood, it would have meant less education time lost to the virus as well.

    Why Sunak and the others couldn’t see that I do not know.
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    Scott_xP said:

    Agree; we appear to be being led towards a economic disaster comparable to, in military terms, the Fall of Singapore.
    Fortunately that was reversed three years later; it is to be hoped that this will be.

    https://twitter.com/flatstreet101/status/1337453159883677697
    Can we wait to 2024?
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    eekeek Posts: 25,008
    RobD said:
    Where has Truss negotiated a completely open free trade area.

    All the agreements we have will focus on particular markets and segments
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321

    Scott_xP said:

    Agree; we appear to be being led towards a economic disaster comparable to, in military terms, the Fall of Singapore.
    Fortunately that was reversed three years later; it is to be hoped that this will be.

    https://twitter.com/flatstreet101/status/1337453159883677697
    Can we wait to 2024?
    Unfortunately we have to. Even if Johnson were toppled, that wouldn’t lead to an election and therefore a radical change of approach.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927

    Betting Post

    F1: last in-season tip of the year. I found it hard to find anything that really appealed but the best of what I saw was Verstappen at 2.58 for the win (Betfair Exchange):
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2020/12/abu-dhabi-pre-race-2020.html

    Whatever the result, the 2020 total will be marginally better than 2019, if more lopsided towards the first half (possibly due to some significant luck). That discounts the Perez/Hamilton-related profits of Sakhir, which were not tipped in a blog, of course.

    I’m thinking of Lando to lead the first lap. He starts on the soft tyres.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:
    History of US elections suggest people do try to steal them sometimes?

    And fairly obviously there is a long and extensive history of voter suppression. Is it dehumanising to state this fact?
    Well yes, we can see Trump blatantly trying to steal one now.
    Must be embarrassing for Trump that he and the republicans went to huge lengths to suppress electoral registration, close polling stations, make it difficult to vote by post, used threats and intimidation, packed the courts with his supporters...

    ...and still lost by a huge margin to a weak candidate who’s older than he is.

    To that extent, I can see why he’s struggling to understand that it’s not fraud that led to Biden winning, just that Trump himself is a shite candidate.

    A bit like Mugabe losing to the MDC despite all the fraud he committed, and having to seize power by violence.
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    Mr. Sandpit, what odds?

    The three cars ahead of him have a substantial pace advantage over the McLaren.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927
    rcs1000 said:
    Good effort Robert, but it really is a waste of time talking to people who, more than five weeks after the election, are still talking about the result being overturned on some technicality or other.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927

    Mr. Sandpit, what odds?

    The three cars ahead of him have a substantial pace advantage over the McLaren.

    Would need to be long odds, maybe 9 or 10.
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    ydoethur said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:
    History of US elections suggest people do try to steal them sometimes?

    And fairly obviously there is a long and extensive history of voter suppression. Is it dehumanising to state this fact?
    Well yes, we can see Trump blatantly trying to steal one now.
    Must be embarrassing for Trump that he and the republicans went to huge lengths to suppress electoral registration, close polling stations, make it difficult to vote by post, used threats and intimidation, packed the courts with his supporters...

    ...and still lost by a huge margin to a weak candidate who’s older than he is.

    To that extent, I can see why he’s struggling to understand that it’s not fraud that led to Biden winning, just that Trump himself is a shite candidate.

    A bit like Mugabe losing to the MDC despite all the fraud he committed, and having to seize power by violence.
    Relatedly, this made me laugh:
    https://twitter.com/iscalledbrian/status/1337570044642013185

    Given how little postal vote spoilage there seems to be it really feels like Trump could have won it fair and square if he'd done normal, shameless get-people-to-vote-for-you things like sending people a cheque with his signature on it, and normal electoral things like trying to get them to vote by post to make the GOTV easier.
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    Mr. Sandpit, well, his odds are 19 on Ladbrokes and 30 on Betfair.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,751
    This, FPT, does not seem to contradict Alastair’s excellent header.
    MaxPB said:

    Vox pops from the pub, this is in Hampstead, but a lock in so mostly working class people who aren't going to snitch like middle class c***s. Boris is fucked either way. No deal isn't seen as a big deal. The blame for no deal is placed on 1 - the EU and 2 - remainers who blocked brexit for so long. Any trade deal must meet the minimum standard of allowing the UK to not follow EU rules in the short or medium term and definitely not in the long term. The ratchet clause is basically not understood by most, from that perspective it is seen as EU trickery to tie the UK into something that only the EU understands. Ok fishing basically unanimous support for the UK to defend its territory by whatever means necessary, it's the one thing that united everyone, military defense of territory was seen as a likely end result.

    Support for no deal was low, however, it went up significantly when the fishing issues were raised. Basically it is, IMO, the single issue that will get Boris his justification for no deal among shire Tories as well as red wall converts. Fishing indemnifies Boris from no deal blame as long as the EU continued to ask for 82% of UK fishing quotas.

    The obsession with a detail that is essentially irrelevant economically, to the exclusion of all else is notable.
    And you do have to admire the ability of a government with a majority of 80 to convince its supporters that anything they do is someone else’s fault. I wonder how long that might last.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927

    Mr. Sandpit, well, his odds are 19 on Ladbrokes and 30 on Betfair.

    Hope that’s still there when I get back to the computer in a couple of hours!
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    Yawn. We are going to now have to suffer weeks of gloating from the same 8-9 regular posters on here (the Ultra-Remain Horde) who are desperate to be vindicated on Brexit and cheer on every hard move of the EU whilst condemning the same if done by the UK. They get off on gloating, provoking, insulting and pompous grandstanding (mainly an exercise in cognitive dissonance they don't have the self-awareness or intelligence to fail to recognise) all whilst tediously clogged up thread after thread with their bilge and like-clicked backslapping and reinforcing of one other.

    This is one key reason that I was so keen on a Deal, as I knew how insufferable they'd be with a No Deal, which they secretly all want as they think it suits their long-term political goals the best. In truth, it's a step into the unknown with a variety of (unpredictable) political outcomes.

    I get nothing from engaging in that other than irritation so I will be taking a break from this site to leave them to their feverish and euphoric mutual masturbation.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Truss. If your making a big deal of a trade deal with North Macedonia you have failed.
  • Options

    Yawn. We are going to now have to suffer weeks of gloating from the same 8-9 regular posters on here (the Ultra-Remain Horde) who are desperate to be vindicated on Brexit and cheer on every hard move of the EU whilst condemning the same if done by the UK. They get off on gloating, provoking, insulting and pompous grandstanding (mainly an exercise in cognitive dissonance they don't have the self-awareness or intelligence to fail to recognise) all whilst tediously clogged up thread after thread with their bilge and like-clicked backslapping and reinforcing of one other.

    This is one key reason that I was so keen on a Deal, as I knew how insufferable they'd be with a No Deal, which they secretly all want as they think it suits their long-term political goals the best. In truth, it's a step into the unknown with a variety of (unpredictable) political outcomes.

    I get nothing from engaging in that other than irritation so I will be taking a break from this site to leave them to their feverish and euphoric mutual masturbation.

    A fair observation to be honest
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,751
    ydoethur said:

    Also from the Sunday Times. If the ST is the Voice of Rupert (it went Leave on 2016, unlike the daily), this government is in deep doodoo...

    Johnson had reluctantly sided with the scientists and was preparing for a quick lockdown in the week of Monday, September 21, backed by his then chief adviser, Dominic Cummings. Two key members of his cabinet — Matt Hancock, the health secretary, and Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister — were also supporting tougher restrictions.

    But Sunak wanted a different strategy. Faced with dire predictions that half a million people could be made redundant in the autumn, he strongly opposed a second lockdown, which some economists were saying would wreak further havoc on Britain’s already limping economy.

    The real mistake here- and in Wales, for the matter of that - was not closing schools for two weeks at half term. That would have made a vast amount of sense on a huge number of levels. In all likelihood, it would have meant less education time lost to the virus as well.

    Why Sunak and the others couldn’t see that I do not know.
    It might not be unconnected with Johnson’s earlier insistence that reopening schools would be 100% safe. Remember his repeated haranguing of Starmer on this at successive PMQs ?
    You don’t see things that you don’t want to see.

    Incidentally, my wife’s school has been told that it is responsible for conducting contact tracing in students’ families after term ends. Is this something you’ve heard of ?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    ydoethur said:

    Also from the Sunday Times. If the ST is the Voice of Rupert (it went Leave on 2016, unlike the daily), this government is in deep doodoo...

    Johnson had reluctantly sided with the scientists and was preparing for a quick lockdown in the week of Monday, September 21, backed by his then chief adviser, Dominic Cummings. Two key members of his cabinet — Matt Hancock, the health secretary, and Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister — were also supporting tougher restrictions.

    But Sunak wanted a different strategy. Faced with dire predictions that half a million people could be made redundant in the autumn, he strongly opposed a second lockdown, which some economists were saying would wreak further havoc on Britain’s already limping economy.

    The real mistake here- and in Wales, for the matter of that - was not closing schools for two weeks at half term. That would have made a vast amount of sense on a huge number of levels. In all likelihood, it would have meant less education time lost to the virus as well.

    Why Sunak and the others couldn’t see that I do not know.
    Yes, and an extra week or two off at Christmas, perhaps with some online teaching where possible.

    I think that perhaps we in the NHS are now increasingly part of the problem. 20% of hosputal inpatients with Covid-19 have now caught it in hospital.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1337925337003470849?s=19
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321

    ydoethur said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:
    History of US elections suggest people do try to steal them sometimes?

    And fairly obviously there is a long and extensive history of voter suppression. Is it dehumanising to state this fact?
    Well yes, we can see Trump blatantly trying to steal one now.
    Must be embarrassing for Trump that he and the republicans went to huge lengths to suppress electoral registration, close polling stations, make it difficult to vote by post, used threats and intimidation, packed the courts with his supporters...

    ...and still lost by a huge margin to a weak candidate who’s older than he is.

    To that extent, I can see why he’s struggling to understand that it’s not fraud that led to Biden winning, just that Trump himself is a shite candidate.

    A bit like Mugabe losing to the MDC despite all the fraud he committed, and having to seize power by violence.
    Relatedly, this made me laugh:
    https://twitter.com/iscalledbrian/status/1337570044642013185

    Given how little postal vote spoilage there seems to be it really feels like Trump could have won it fair and square if he'd done normal, shameless get-people-to-vote-for-you things like sending people a cheque with his signature on it, and normal electoral things like trying to get them to vote by post to make the GOTV easier.
    Yes. It’s particularly ridiculous given it was his own supporters that were worst affected (and the damage isn’t over - it may still cost them control of the Senate).

    Perhaps he thought, as I did until wiser heads on here put me right, that it would affect the Dems more.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321
    edited December 2020
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Also from the Sunday Times. If the ST is the Voice of Rupert (it went Leave on 2016, unlike the daily), this government is in deep doodoo...

    Johnson had reluctantly sided with the scientists and was preparing for a quick lockdown in the week of Monday, September 21, backed by his then chief adviser, Dominic Cummings. Two key members of his cabinet — Matt Hancock, the health secretary, and Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister — were also supporting tougher restrictions.

    But Sunak wanted a different strategy. Faced with dire predictions that half a million people could be made redundant in the autumn, he strongly opposed a second lockdown, which some economists were saying would wreak further havoc on Britain’s already limping economy.

    The real mistake here- and in Wales, for the matter of that - was not closing schools for two weeks at half term. That would have made a vast amount of sense on a huge number of levels. In all likelihood, it would have meant less education time lost to the virus as well.

    Why Sunak and the others couldn’t see that I do not know.
    It might not be unconnected with Johnson’s earlier insistence that reopening schools would be 100% safe. Remember his repeated haranguing of Starmer on this at successive PMQs ?
    You don’t see things that you don’t want to see.

    Incidentally, my wife’s school has been told that it is responsible for conducting contact tracing in students’ families after term ends. Is this something you’ve heard of ?
    Yes. That is why they asked schools to close for teaching a day early so as to reduce the T and T lead in time.

    But as they made the announcement too late, it didn’t help. And therefore some staff will have to be working on Christmas Day telling families to isolate.

    There are so many mistakes that have been made...but this is among the most ridiculous and unnecessary.

    Edit - and of course, schools are not safe to reopen. They have become what they were always going to be - major transmission vectors.

    The problem is not that they reopened - that was the right thing to do - but that simple and obvious steps to mitigate that transmission vector have been wilfully ignored.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732

    Yawn. We are going to now have to suffer weeks of gloating from the same 8-9 regular posters on here (the Ultra-Remain Horde) who are desperate to be vindicated on Brexit and cheer on every hard move of the EU whilst condemning the same if done by the UK. They get off on gloating, provoking, insulting and pompous grandstanding (mainly an exercise in cognitive dissonance they don't have the self-awareness or intelligence to fail to recognise) all whilst tediously clogged up thread after thread with their bilge and like-clicked backslapping and reinforcing of one other.

    This is one key reason that I was so keen on a Deal, as I knew how insufferable they'd be with a No Deal, which they secretly all want as they think it suits their long-term political goals the best. In truth, it's a step into the unknown with a variety of (unpredictable) political outcomes.

    I get nothing from engaging in that other than irritation so I will be taking a break from this site to leave them to their feverish and euphoric mutual masturbation.

    Goodbye! Enjoy your break.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,194
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Also from the Sunday Times. If the ST is the Voice of Rupert (it went Leave on 2016, unlike the daily), this government is in deep doodoo...

    Johnson had reluctantly sided with the scientists and was preparing for a quick lockdown in the week of Monday, September 21, backed by his then chief adviser, Dominic Cummings. Two key members of his cabinet — Matt Hancock, the health secretary, and Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister — were also supporting tougher restrictions.

    But Sunak wanted a different strategy. Faced with dire predictions that half a million people could be made redundant in the autumn, he strongly opposed a second lockdown, which some economists were saying would wreak further havoc on Britain’s already limping economy.

    The real mistake here- and in Wales, for the matter of that - was not closing schools for two weeks at half term. That would have made a vast amount of sense on a huge number of levels. In all likelihood, it would have meant less education time lost to the virus as well.

    Why Sunak and the others couldn’t see that I do not know.
    Yes, and an extra week or two off at Christmas, perhaps with some online teaching where possible.

    I think that perhaps we in the NHS are now increasingly part of the problem. 20% of hosputal inpatients with Covid-19 have now caught it in hospital.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1337925337003470849?s=19
    Not sure if you saw what I wrote last week about my dad's experience, but it was shocking just how intensely relaxed one our local hospitals was about COVID.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,751
    .

    Yawn. We are going to now have to suffer weeks of gloating from the same 8-9 regular posters on here (the Ultra-Remain Horde) who are desperate to be vindicated on Brexit and cheer on every hard move of the EU whilst condemning the same if done by the UK. They get off on gloating, provoking, insulting and pompous grandstanding (mainly an exercise in cognitive dissonance they don't have the self-awareness or intelligence to fail to recognise) all whilst tediously clogged up thread after thread with their bilge and like-clicked backslapping and reinforcing of one other.

    This is one key reason that I was so keen on a Deal, as I knew how insufferable they'd be with a No Deal, which they secretly all want as they think it suits their long-term political goals the best. In truth, it's a step into the unknown with a variety of (unpredictable) political outcomes.

    I get nothing from engaging in that other than irritation so I will be taking a break from this site to leave them to their feverish and euphoric mutual masturbation.

    A fair observation to be honest
    Which bit of that rant do you think is a fair observation, Big_G ?
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited December 2020
    Nigelb said:

    This, FPT, does not seem to contradict Alastair’s excellent header.

    MaxPB said:

    Vox pops from the pub, this is in Hampstead, but a lock in so mostly working class people who aren't going to snitch like middle class c***s. Boris is fucked either way. No deal isn't seen as a big deal. The blame for no deal is placed on 1 - the EU and 2 - remainers who blocked brexit for so long. Any trade deal must meet the minimum standard of allowing the UK to not follow EU rules in the short or medium term and definitely not in the long term. The ratchet clause is basically not understood by most, from that perspective it is seen as EU trickery to tie the UK into something that only the EU understands. Ok fishing basically unanimous support for the UK to defend its territory by whatever means necessary, it's the one thing that united everyone, military defense of territory was seen as a likely end result.

    Support for no deal was low, however, it went up significantly when the fishing issues were raised. Basically it is, IMO, the single issue that will get Boris his justification for no deal among shire Tories as well as red wall converts. Fishing indemnifies Boris from no deal blame as long as the EU continued to ask for 82% of UK fishing quotas.

    The obsession with a detail that is essentially irrelevant economically, to the exclusion of all else is notable.
    And you do have to admire the ability of a government with a majority of 80 to convince its supporters that anything they do is someone else’s fault. I wonder how long that might last.
    It's not a coincidence. Gove and Johnson are journalists, and they have long experience of what will play best in our very particular press culture. The British print media continues to lead through the nose.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,751
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Also from the Sunday Times. If the ST is the Voice of Rupert (it went Leave on 2016, unlike the daily), this government is in deep doodoo...

    Johnson had reluctantly sided with the scientists and was preparing for a quick lockdown in the week of Monday, September 21, backed by his then chief adviser, Dominic Cummings. Two key members of his cabinet — Matt Hancock, the health secretary, and Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister — were also supporting tougher restrictions.

    But Sunak wanted a different strategy. Faced with dire predictions that half a million people could be made redundant in the autumn, he strongly opposed a second lockdown, which some economists were saying would wreak further havoc on Britain’s already limping economy.

    The real mistake here- and in Wales, for the matter of that - was not closing schools for two weeks at half term. That would have made a vast amount of sense on a huge number of levels. In all likelihood, it would have meant less education time lost to the virus as well.

    Why Sunak and the others couldn’t see that I do not know.
    It might not be unconnected with Johnson’s earlier insistence that reopening schools would be 100% safe. Remember his repeated haranguing of Starmer on this at successive PMQs ?
    You don’t see things that you don’t want to see.

    Incidentally, my wife’s school has been told that it is responsible for conducting contact tracing in students’ families after term ends. Is this something you’ve heard of ?
    Yes. That is why they asked schools to close for teaching a day early so as to reduce the T and T lead in time.

    But as they made the announcement too late, it didn’t help. And therefore some staff will have to be working on Christmas Day telling families to isolate.

    There are so many mistakes that have been made...but this is among the most ridiculous and unnecessary.

    Edit - and of course, schools are not safe to reopen. They have become what they were always going to be - major transmission vectors.

    The problem is not that they reopened - that was the right thing to do - but that simple and obvious steps to mitigate that transmission vector have been wilfully ignored.
    Indeed. But if you insist something is zero risk, why would you need to mitigate ?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Also from the Sunday Times. If the ST is the Voice of Rupert (it went Leave on 2016, unlike the daily), this government is in deep doodoo...

    Johnson had reluctantly sided with the scientists and was preparing for a quick lockdown in the week of Monday, September 21, backed by his then chief adviser, Dominic Cummings. Two key members of his cabinet — Matt Hancock, the health secretary, and Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister — were also supporting tougher restrictions.

    But Sunak wanted a different strategy. Faced with dire predictions that half a million people could be made redundant in the autumn, he strongly opposed a second lockdown, which some economists were saying would wreak further havoc on Britain’s already limping economy.

    The real mistake here- and in Wales, for the matter of that - was not closing schools for two weeks at half term. That would have made a vast amount of sense on a huge number of levels. In all likelihood, it would have meant less education time lost to the virus as well.

    Why Sunak and the others couldn’t see that I do not know.
    Yes, and an extra week or two off at Christmas, perhaps with some online teaching where possible.

    I think that perhaps we in the NHS are now increasingly part of the problem. 20% of hosputal inpatients with Covid-19 have now caught it in hospital.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1337925337003470849?s=19
    Not sure if you saw what I wrote last week about my dad's experience, but it was shocking just how intensely relaxed one our local hospitals was about COVID.
    No, I missed it. What happened? Which hospital was it? Infection control is pretty strongly enforced at my hospital, with disciplinary action against non compliant staff. We still have ward outbreaks though. 4 I think at present.
  • Options
    Prices shorten as the Electoral College is due to vote tomorrow.
    Current Betfair prices:-

    Biden 1.02
    Democrats 1.02
    Biden PV 1.02
    Biden PV 49-51.9% 1.03
    Trump PV 46-48.9% 1.03
    Trump ECV 210-239 1.04
    Biden ECV 300-329 1.04
    Biden ECV Hcap -48.5 1.03
    Biden ECV Hcap -63.5 1.03
    Trump ECV Hcap +81.5 1.01

    AZ Dem 1.03
    GA Dem 1.03
    MI Dem 1.02
    NV Dem 1.03
    PA Dem 1.03
    WI Dem 1.03

    Trump to leave before end of term NO 1.06
    Trump exit date 2021 1.06
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,903

    Yawn. We are going to now have to suffer weeks of gloating from the same 8-9 regular posters on here (the Ultra-Remain Horde) who are desperate to be vindicated on Brexit and cheer on every hard move of the EU whilst condemning the same if done by the UK. They get off on gloating, provoking, insulting and pompous grandstanding (mainly an exercise in cognitive dissonance they don't have the self-awareness or intelligence to fail to recognise) all whilst tediously clogged up thread after thread with their bilge and like-clicked backslapping and reinforcing of one other.

    This is one key reason that I was so keen on a Deal, as I knew how insufferable they'd be with a No Deal, which they secretly all want as they think it suits their long-term political goals the best. In truth, it's a step into the unknown with a variety of (unpredictable) political outcomes.

    I get nothing from engaging in that other than irritation so I will be taking a break from this site to leave them to their feverish and euphoric mutual masturbation.

    What utter drivel ! I don’t know a single Remainer who wants no deal . As that will just lead to yet more years of EU scapegoating .
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    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Agree; we appear to be being led towards a economic disaster comparable to, in military terms, the Fall of Singapore.
    Fortunately that was reversed three years later; it is to be hoped that this will be.

    https://twitter.com/flatstreet101/status/1337453159883677697
    Can we wait to 2024?
    Unfortunately we have to. Even if Johnson were toppled, that wouldn’t lead to an election and therefore a radical change of approach.
    Which makes the politics of the next few years grimly fascinating to anticipate. The usual procedure here is to dump the leader and change direction. But the 2019 purge makes that impossible. Even if you magic (say) Hunt into No 10, how does he fill a Cabinet?

    Once again, Johnson's triumph will come back to bite him. How very classical.
  • Options
    What an amusing whingefest to wake up to.

    Personally I'm quite content with how Brexit is going. The EU are being scelerotic and unreasonable, so we have two choices: to give in to them or walk away. If I got a vote I would say walk away.

    A lot of people are hyperventilating about the impact of a clean Brexit but I think it will be ultimately much ado about nothing, albeit with some disruption. People living in Kent may notice it more but they also voted for it more.

    And if there's some disruption I think people can live with that so long as they think it's all a part of a plan.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Yawn. We are going to now have to suffer weeks of gloating from the same 8-9 regular posters on here (the Ultra-Remain Horde) who are desperate to be vindicated on Brexit and cheer on every hard move of the EU whilst condemning the same if done by the UK. They get off on gloating, provoking, insulting and pompous grandstanding (mainly an exercise in cognitive dissonance they don't have the self-awareness or intelligence to fail to recognise) all whilst tediously clogged up thread after thread with their bilge and like-clicked backslapping and reinforcing of one other.

    This is one key reason that I was so keen on a Deal, as I knew how insufferable they'd be with a No Deal, which they secretly all want as they think it suits their long-term political goals the best. In truth, it's a step into the unknown with a variety of (unpredictable) political outcomes.

    I get nothing from engaging in that other than irritation so I will be taking a break from this site to leave them to their feverish and euphoric mutual masturbation.

    It’s a good time to take it easy. I can’t understand the risks the government are taking. But 🤷‍♂️, they’re determined to do it in pursuit of something or other as yet undefined. I just hope they don’t do too much damage.

    I wonder if they will be prepared to take similar risks and put the economy on the line over other policies, say climate change.


  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    Jonathan said:

    Truss. If your making a big deal of a trade deal with North Macedonia you have failed.

    North Macedonia, along with much else of the SE Balkans is applying for EU entry is it not?
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,989
    nico679 said:

    Yawn. We are going to now have to suffer weeks of gloating from the same 8-9 regular posters on here (the Ultra-Remain Horde) who are desperate to be vindicated on Brexit and cheer on every hard move of the EU whilst condemning the same if done by the UK. They get off on gloating, provoking, insulting and pompous grandstanding (mainly an exercise in cognitive dissonance they don't have the self-awareness or intelligence to fail to recognise) all whilst tediously clogged up thread after thread with their bilge and like-clicked backslapping and reinforcing of one other.

    This is one key reason that I was so keen on a Deal, as I knew how insufferable they'd be with a No Deal, which they secretly all want as they think it suits their long-term political goals the best. In truth, it's a step into the unknown with a variety of (unpredictable) political outcomes.

    I get nothing from engaging in that other than irritation so I will be taking a break from this site to leave them to their feverish and euphoric mutual masturbation.

    What utter drivel ! I don’t know a single Remainer who wants no deal . As that will just lead to yet more years of EU scapegoating .
    Unbelievable as it might seem, the main reason I want to see a deal is because I’d rather like to avoid the self-inflicted economic damage that comes with no deal. That I regard as rather more important than who wins the ensuing arguments between Brexiteers and Remainers.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited December 2020
    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Truss. If your making a big deal of a trade deal with North Macedonia you have failed.

    North Macedonia, along with much else of the SE Balkans is applying for EU entry is it not?
    Yup, it's the cornerstone of their foreign policy, now that the Greeks have patched it up with them and are actually helping them with it, because they think it aids broader regional security just as much for them as well.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,751
    .
    nico679 said:

    Yawn. We are going to now have to suffer weeks of gloating from the same 8-9 regular posters on here (the Ultra-Remain Horde) who are desperate to be vindicated on Brexit and cheer on every hard move of the EU whilst condemning the same if done by the UK. They get off on gloating, provoking, insulting and pompous grandstanding (mainly an exercise in cognitive dissonance they don't have the self-awareness or intelligence to fail to recognise) all whilst tediously clogged up thread after thread with their bilge and like-clicked backslapping and reinforcing of one other.

    This is one key reason that I was so keen on a Deal, as I knew how insufferable they'd be with a No Deal, which they secretly all want as they think it suits their long-term political goals the best. In truth, it's a step into the unknown with a variety of (unpredictable) political outcomes.

    I get nothing from engaging in that other than irritation so I will be taking a break from this site to leave them to their feverish and euphoric mutual masturbation.

    What utter drivel ! I don’t know a single Remainer who wants no deal . As that will just lead to yet more years of EU scapegoating .
    To be fair, there are a handful here who have said that no deal would best bring leavers to their senses.
    Most of us agree with you, I think, and have repeatedly stated as much.

    If you read Casino’s contributions from last night, his rant this morning was relatively restrained.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,320

    What an amusing whingefest to wake up to.

    Personally I'm quite content with how Brexit is going. The EU are being scelerotic and unreasonable, so we have two choices: to give in to them or walk away. If I got a vote I would say walk away.

    A lot of people are hyperventilating about the impact of a clean Brexit but I think it will be ultimately much ado about nothing, albeit with some disruption. People living in Kent may notice it more but they also voted for it more.

    And if there's some disruption I think people can live with that so long as they think it's all a part of a plan.

    Incidentally, you raise an important issue, particularly given you are so keen on trumpeting our flawed democracy. When is the parliamentary vote for MPs to decide what will be a hugely significant decision of leaving with no deal? As against the alternative options on the table: taking the EU's final offer, or asking for more time?
  • Options
    The Prime Minister has promised us we will thrive without an EU trade deal. Prosperity and opportunity are just days away. A golden age is heading our way. We will have lower taxes and higher public spending. Britain will be free, wealthy and more united than it has been in decades. Once more, the world will look to us as a shining example. All this has been guaranteed by Mr Johnson. So, why is anyone worried?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321

    What an amusing whingefest to wake up to.

    Personally I'm quite content with how Brexit is going. The EU are being scelerotic and unreasonable, so we have two choices: to give in to them or walk away. If I got a vote I would say walk away.

    A lot of people are hyperventilating about the impact of a clean Brexit but I think it will be ultimately much ado about nothing, albeit with some disruption. People living in Kent may notice it more but they also voted for it more.

    And if there's some disruption I think people can live with that so long as they think it's all a part of a plan.

    Unfortunate phrasing PhilIp, because it brought this speech to mind:

    https://youtu.be/G0AXgaFqEas
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Truss. If your making a big deal of a trade deal with North Macedonia you have failed.

    North Macedonia, along with much else of the SE Balkans is applying for EU entry is it not?
    The Balkan’s are busy deBalkanizing, whilst our nationalists decide that the UK needs a Balkan like future. Strange times.
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    Mr. 679, ironic, given so many pro-EU MPs voted for No Deal when they opposed the deal May brought forward on three occasions.

    We may have significant economic turbulence in the near future, but a potentially greater risk is the exacerbation of already alarmingly high political polarisation (both within the UK and between the UK and EU).

    The Conservatives should be prepared to dispatch the buffoon they so stupidly put into Downing Street.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Jonathan said:

    Truss. If your making a big deal of a trade deal with North Macedonia you have failed.

    That would be a valid criticism had it been the only thing she had done.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,654
    edited December 2020
    ..
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,270

    What an amusing whingefest to wake up to.

    Personally I'm quite content with how Brexit is going. The EU are being scelerotic and unreasonable, so we have two choices: to give in to them or walk away. If I got a vote I would say walk away.

    A lot of people are hyperventilating about the impact of a clean Brexit but I think it will be ultimately much ado about nothing, albeit with some disruption. People living in Kent may notice it more but they also voted for it more.

    And if there's some disruption I think people can live with that so long as they think it's all a part of a plan.

    If Boris Johnson accidentally mowed down 20 pedestrians waiting at a pavement bus stop, you would blame the bus company for putting their bus stop in the wrong place, or the council for putting in a dangerously sited pavement, or the people for waiting for a bus.

    So no deal Brexit will be fine, but if it isn't, it will be the fault of the EU/Remainers/ the French/ Blair, delete as appropriate.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    nico679 said:

    Yawn. We are going to now have to suffer weeks of gloating from the same 8-9 regular posters on here (the Ultra-Remain Horde) who are desperate to be vindicated on Brexit and cheer on every hard move of the EU whilst condemning the same if done by the UK. They get off on gloating, provoking, insulting and pompous grandstanding (mainly an exercise in cognitive dissonance they don't have the self-awareness or intelligence to fail to recognise) all whilst tediously clogged up thread after thread with their bilge and like-clicked backslapping and reinforcing of one other.

    This is one key reason that I was so keen on a Deal, as I knew how insufferable they'd be with a No Deal, which they secretly all want as they think it suits their long-term political goals the best. In truth, it's a step into the unknown with a variety of (unpredictable) political outcomes.

    I get nothing from engaging in that other than irritation so I will be taking a break from this site to leave them to their feverish and euphoric mutual masturbation.

    What utter drivel ! I don’t know a single Remainer who wants no deal . As that will just lead to yet more years of EU scapegoating .
    By definition Remainers wanted to remain, and with the polling showing that few have changed their mind, and a plurality of Britons thinking Brexit is a mistake, I think still do so.

    But if we are to have a proper Brexit, then WTO is fine, though it would have been sensible to prepare for it.

    Since 2016, I have advocated WTO Brexit. We need to disentangle completely before we regain our senses and develop a more mature relationship with the rest of our continent.
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    IanB2 said:

    What an amusing whingefest to wake up to.

    Personally I'm quite content with how Brexit is going. The EU are being scelerotic and unreasonable, so we have two choices: to give in to them or walk away. If I got a vote I would say walk away.

    A lot of people are hyperventilating about the impact of a clean Brexit but I think it will be ultimately much ado about nothing, albeit with some disruption. People living in Kent may notice it more but they also voted for it more.

    And if there's some disruption I think people can live with that so long as they think it's all a part of a plan.

    Incidentally, you raise an important issue, particularly given you are so keen on trumpeting our flawed democracy. When is the parliamentary vote for MPs to decide what will be a hugely significant decision of leaving with no deal? As against the alternative options on the table: taking the EU's final offer, or asking for more time?
    Why should there be one?

    No deal is not an action is the default. People who don't accept that we left the EU seem to struggle to understand that but Parliament has already voted to be on WTO terms by default from 23:00 31/12/20. That's already the law.

    A deal should have a vote as it would be a change. No deal is the status quo we've already voted to occur.

    This is why those claiming that the EU and UK were negotiating to move further apart are wrong. They simply haven't internalised WTO rather than EU membership is our forthcoming baseline to be measured from.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    The Prime Minister has promised us we will thrive without an EU trade deal. Prosperity and opportunity are just days away. A golden age is heading our way. We will have lower taxes and higher public spending. Britain will be free, wealthy and more united than it has been in decades. Once more, the world will look to us as a shining example. All this has been guaranteed by Mr Johnson. So, why is anyone worried?

    Regardless of what actually happens, that is how it will be spun. They’ll spend a lot of money polishing whatever turd finally emerges from Brexits arsehole.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,029
    edited December 2020
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Truss. If your making a big deal of a trade deal with North Macedonia you have failed.

    North Macedonia, along with much else of the SE Balkans is applying for EU entry is it not?
    The Balkan’s are busy deBalkanizing, whilst our nationalists decide that the UK needs a Balkan like future. Strange times.
    Historically, unconsciously, do not the Balkan states look over their shoulders at Turkey? Much as many here do towards France.
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,291
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Yawn. We are going to now have to suffer weeks of gloating from the same 8-9 regular posters on here (the Ultra-Remain Horde) who are desperate to be vindicated on Brexit and cheer on every hard move of the EU whilst condemning the same if done by the UK. They get off on gloating, provoking, insulting and pompous grandstanding (mainly an exercise in cognitive dissonance they don't have the self-awareness or intelligence to fail to recognise) all whilst tediously clogged up thread after thread with their bilge and like-clicked backslapping and reinforcing of one other.

    This is one key reason that I was so keen on a Deal, as I knew how insufferable they'd be with a No Deal, which they secretly all want as they think it suits their long-term political goals the best. In truth, it's a step into the unknown with a variety of (unpredictable) political outcomes.

    I get nothing from engaging in that other than irritation so I will be taking a break from this site to leave them to their feverish and euphoric mutual masturbation.

    A fair observation to be honest
    Which bit of that rant do you think is a fair observation, Big_G ?
    I think agreeing in any way with that hot mess of a posting-breakdown implies little thinking was involved.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,751
    How many do these lunatics speak for ?

    Pro-Trump Protesters Chant “Destroy the GOP,” Boo Georgia Senate Candidates at Rally
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/12/pro-trump-protesters-chant-destroy-gop-rally-washington.html

    The Georgia senate elections will be an interesting test.
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    ydoethur said:

    What an amusing whingefest to wake up to.

    Personally I'm quite content with how Brexit is going. The EU are being scelerotic and unreasonable, so we have two choices: to give in to them or walk away. If I got a vote I would say walk away.

    A lot of people are hyperventilating about the impact of a clean Brexit but I think it will be ultimately much ado about nothing, albeit with some disruption. People living in Kent may notice it more but they also voted for it more.

    And if there's some disruption I think people can live with that so long as they think it's all a part of a plan.

    Unfortunate phrasing PhilIp, because it brought this speech to mind:

    https://youtu.be/G0AXgaFqEas
    Not a coincidence I was thinking of putting that clip in my own post.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,018
    nico679 said:



    What utter drivel ! I don’t know a single Remainer who wants no deal . As that will just lead to yet more years of EU scapegoating .

    I voted Remain and I'd love No Deal but I don't think we'll get it. Johnson will cave, lie about it and largely get away with it.
  • Options

    What an amusing whingefest to wake up to.

    Personally I'm quite content with how Brexit is going. The EU are being scelerotic and unreasonable, so we have two choices: to give in to them or walk away. If I got a vote I would say walk away.

    A lot of people are hyperventilating about the impact of a clean Brexit but I think it will be ultimately much ado about nothing, albeit with some disruption. People living in Kent may notice it more but they also voted for it more.

    And if there's some disruption I think people can live with that so long as they think it's all a part of a plan.

    If Boris Johnson accidentally mowed down 20 pedestrians waiting at a pavement bus stop, you would blame the bus company for putting their bus stop in the wrong place, or the council for putting in a dangerously sited pavement, or the people for waiting for a bus.

    So no deal Brexit will be fine, but if it isn't, it will be the fault of the EU/Remainers/ the French/ Blair, delete as appropriate.
    I've got my principles and I stick by them. I've criticised Boris repeatedly but I've been adamant for years I'd prefer no deal to a bad deal. I opposed May's deal at all 3 meaningful votes after all so why would I oppose us having a Clean Brexit now?
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited December 2020
    So let’s call it!

    Will we have a deal today?
    Will there be a call for extra time or a partial deal?
    Or will the no deal be confirmed?

    I’m guessing the middle fudge.
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    Nigelb said:

    How many do these lunatics speak for ?

    Pro-Trump Protesters Chant “Destroy the GOP,” Boo Georgia Senate Candidates at Rally
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/12/pro-trump-protesters-chant-destroy-gop-rally-washington.html

    The Georgia senate elections will be an interesting test.

    Hopefully enough.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    What an amusing whingefest to wake up to.

    Personally I'm quite content with how Brexit is going. The EU are being scelerotic and unreasonable, so we have two choices: to give in to them or walk away. If I got a vote I would say walk away.

    A lot of people are hyperventilating about the impact of a clean Brexit but I think it will be ultimately much ado about nothing, albeit with some disruption. People living in Kent may notice it more but they also voted for it more.

    And if there's some disruption I think people can live with that so long as they think it's all a part of a plan.

    If Boris Johnson accidentally mowed down 20 pedestrians waiting at a pavement bus stop, you would blame the bus company for putting their bus stop in the wrong place, or the council for putting in a dangerously sited pavement, or the people for waiting for a bus.

    So no deal Brexit will be fine, but if it isn't, it will be the fault of the EU/Remainers/ the French/ Blair, delete as appropriate.
    I've got my principles and I stick by them. I've criticised Boris repeatedly but I've been adamant for years I'd prefer no deal to a bad deal. I opposed May's deal at all 3 meaningful votes after all so why would I oppose us having a Clean Brexit now?
    Clean Brexit! What’s a dirty Brexit?
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    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:
    History of US elections suggest people do try to steal them sometimes?

    And fairly obviously there is a long and extensive history of voter suppression. Is it dehumanising to state this fact?
    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:
    History of US elections suggest people do try to steal them sometimes?

    And fairly obviously there is a long and extensive history of voter suppression. Is it dehumanising to state this fact?
    Plus there are some interesting boundaries in US constituencies.

    I t’s an interesting question. Clearly forged ballots are beyond the pale, but why are TV adverts ok in the US but not the UK? What about (forged) social media? Or parties that intentionally have popular policies to try and get people to vote for them ;)
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,320

    IanB2 said:

    What an amusing whingefest to wake up to.

    Personally I'm quite content with how Brexit is going. The EU are being scelerotic and unreasonable, so we have two choices: to give in to them or walk away. If I got a vote I would say walk away.

    A lot of people are hyperventilating about the impact of a clean Brexit but I think it will be ultimately much ado about nothing, albeit with some disruption. People living in Kent may notice it more but they also voted for it more.

    And if there's some disruption I think people can live with that so long as they think it's all a part of a plan.

    Incidentally, you raise an important issue, particularly given you are so keen on trumpeting our flawed democracy. When is the parliamentary vote for MPs to decide what will be a hugely significant decision of leaving with no deal? As against the alternative options on the table: taking the EU's final offer, or asking for more time?
    Why should there be one?

    No deal is not an action is the default. People who don't accept that we left the EU seem to struggle to understand that but Parliament has already voted to be on WTO terms by default from 23:00 31/12/20. That's already the law.

    A deal should have a vote as it would be a change. No deal is the status quo we've already voted to occur.

    This is why those claiming that the EU and UK were negotiating to move further apart are wrong. They simply haven't internalised WTO rather than EU membership is our forthcoming baseline to be measured from.
    In a genuine democracy, there should be a vote on whether or not to accept the final offer (and on any alternative path that might be on offer). The arguments will be obvious to the reader, particularly any that have managed to follow the twists and turns of your own 'democratic' argumentation.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,082
    nichomar said:

    Clean Brexit! What’s a dirty Brexit?

    Brexiteers shit the bed, now they are going to smear it everywhere
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,018
    nichomar said:


    Clean Brexit! What’s a dirty Brexit?

    Where you just give your balls a splash of Brut instead of having a bath beforehand.
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    Mr. Jonathan, imagine you were a vacuous, craven, dithering imbecile desperate to be liked and with no consideration beyond your own ambition. Should prove a useful guide for what the PM will do.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,320
    OnboardG1 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Yawn. We are going to now have to suffer weeks of gloating from the same 8-9 regular posters on here (the Ultra-Remain Horde) who are desperate to be vindicated on Brexit and cheer on every hard move of the EU whilst condemning the same if done by the UK. They get off on gloating, provoking, insulting and pompous grandstanding (mainly an exercise in cognitive dissonance they don't have the self-awareness or intelligence to fail to recognise) all whilst tediously clogged up thread after thread with their bilge and like-clicked backslapping and reinforcing of one other.

    This is one key reason that I was so keen on a Deal, as I knew how insufferable they'd be with a No Deal, which they secretly all want as they think it suits their long-term political goals the best. In truth, it's a step into the unknown with a variety of (unpredictable) political outcomes.

    I get nothing from engaging in that other than irritation so I will be taking a break from this site to leave them to their feverish and euphoric mutual masturbation.

    A fair observation to be honest
    Which bit of that rant do you think is a fair observation, Big_G ?
    I think agreeing in any way with that hot mess of a posting-breakdown implies little thinking was involved.
    I doubt he will be the last Brexiter to be mysteriously less prominent in coming weeks.....

    It won't be long before Thompson is the last man standing.
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    Nigelb said:

    How many do these lunatics speak for ?

    Pro-Trump Protesters Chant “Destroy the GOP,” Boo Georgia Senate Candidates at Rally
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/12/pro-trump-protesters-chant-destroy-gop-rally-washington.html

    The Georgia senate elections will be an interesting test.

    I doubt it'll make a lot of difference if Trump is pulling for his senators.

    But the long-term effect is that Trump can now tax any GOP candidate who doesn't want to either get primaried or shed enough of the right to lose to the Dems. Call it $10 per voter represented per race, so for Georgia Senate they'd have to pay him $100 million each?
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    Jonathan said:

    The Prime Minister has promised us we will thrive without an EU trade deal. Prosperity and opportunity are just days away. A golden age is heading our way. We will have lower taxes and higher public spending. Britain will be free, wealthy and more united than it has been in decades. Once more, the world will look to us as a shining example. All this has been guaranteed by Mr Johnson. So, why is anyone worried?

    Regardless of what actually happens, that is how it will be spun. They’ll spend a lot of money polishing whatever turd finally emerges from Brexits arsehole.
    "Boris Johnson has a choice to make. He can strive to secure the thin deal available. That will steadily make Britain poorer than it would have been, but at least it avoids the calamity of a crash-out. Or he can whistle Rule Britannia as he drags his country into the abyss while trying to explain why he has inflicted a disaster on Britain that he swore could never happen. Whichever decision he makes, he will own it. All of it."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/13/boris-johnson-wont-be-able-escape-responsibility-for-a-crash-out-brexit
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    eekeek Posts: 25,008
    Jonathan said:

    So let’s call it!

    Will we have a deal today?
    Will there be a call for extra time or a partial deal?
    Or will the no deal be confirmed?

    I’m guessing the middle fudge.

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1338045799054368768

    Says it's a bodge but I do expect the EU to so forget it based on Rabb's comment above
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    alednamalednam Posts: 185
    I hope Keir Starmer's at work on a speech ready for Jan 1st. He needs to to convey that everything Remainers said was true, that much of what Leavers said was lies/shots in the dark. But he needs to say this without using the words 'Remain' or 'Leave'. The referendum result has come to provide our government the opportunity to inflict upon the nation the damage that it's even now in the process of inflicting. But you can speak out against the size of the damage, and its needlessness, without making any allusion as to how anyone should have voted in 2016.
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