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As Trump continues to be in denial about his defeat Biden gets a significant Gallup favourability bo

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited December 2020 in General
imageAs Trump continues to be in denial about his defeat Biden gets a significant Gallup favourability boost – politicalbetting.com

 Joe Biden’s favorability rating has risen six percentage points to 55% since the election compared with his final preelection reading. At the same time, President Donald Trump’s favourability has edged down three points to 42%.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • CrabbieCrabbie Posts: 55
    First?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    2nd like Biden in Trumps head
  • CrabbieCrabbie Posts: 55
    Biden vs Trump is today’s chip wrappers. I’m curious to know whether the GOP is polling better or worse than the Dems in Georgia. I’ve backed a republican senate majority...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,217
    Pity we can't rerun the election. Landslide nailed on.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    Where's my cake?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Crabbie said:

    Biden vs Trump is today’s chip wrappers. I’m curious to know whether the GOP is polling better or worse than the Dems in Georgia. I’ve backed a republican senate majority...

    The theory quoted on a previous thread is that Trump saved down-ticket Senate and House seats by turning out his personal voters who then voted Republican all the way down, though not enough to save himself. If those voters no longer turn out for the special election because they were only there for Trump, then...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,244
    edited December 2020
    5th

    Bugger. 7th.

    Call me Mr Prime Number,
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,697
    Something tells me John Redwood isn’t really on top of the details.

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1335477504077950976?s=21
  • CrabbieCrabbie Posts: 55
    BluestBlue said:

    Crabbie said:

    Biden vs Trump is today’s chip wrappers. I’m curious to know whether the GOP is polling better or worse than the Dems in Georgia. I’ve backed a republican senate majority...

    The theory quoted on a previous thread is that Trump saved down-ticket Senate and House seats by turning out his personal voters who then voted Republican all the way down, though not enough to save himself. If those voters no longer turn out for the special election because they were only there for Trump, then...
    True. But I wonder how many Dems turned out because it was Trump on the other side of the ticket. I think we will see a reversion to the norm.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    BluestBlue said:

    Crabbie said:

    Biden vs Trump is today’s chip wrappers. I’m curious to know whether the GOP is polling better or worse than the Dems in Georgia. I’ve backed a republican senate majority...

    The theory quoted on a previous thread is that Trump saved down-ticket Senate and House seats by turning out his personal voters who then voted Republican all the way down, though not enough to save himself. If those voters no longer turn out for the special election because they were only there for Trump, then...
    I think Trump can make it about Trump. The runoff is on January 5th, the joint session to officially count the electoral votes is January 6th. So tell the Maga people that the Senate can elect Trump, but only if they vote to give the GOP a majority. They've believed plenty of more ridiculous things than that in the last few weeks.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    edited December 2020
    williamglenn said:

    Something tells me John Redwood isn’t really on top of the details.

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1335477504077950976?s=21

    What percentage of fish will the EU get to keep? I think it will be around 75% -ish.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited December 2020
    Health bosses have told people over 80 not to panic if they have not been contacted about the coronavirus vaccine – as it is revealed that most of them will not get a jab until the New Year as mass immunisation begins.

    Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, said people need to 'hang fire' and be assured that they have not been forgotten about, despite not receiving a letter or a phone call about the vaccine.

    He told the PA news agency: 'I don't think people should expect anything over the next few days because the reality is, as I said, that for the vast, vast, vast majority of people this will be done in January, February, March.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9024821/Coronavirus-UK-80s-wont-vaccine-new-year.html

    Even oldies aren't getting this until Jan-March, I think all the talk of we will be free by March is the government again over promising. Seems more like ETA is end of summer (if Oxford vaccine gets approved and we give that to the plebs).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited December 2020
    “I gave them an open goal to some extent,” he says, “and that was my own fault. I called it an error of judgment, but it was a mistake. Something I didn’t really think about at the time. In some sense, it was a risk-based judgment, which is exactly the wrong thing to do.”

    He resigned from his post on the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage). But was that just for a week?

    “I have to be diplomatic here,” he says, a little coyly. “It didn’t affect the quality of scientific advice the government was getting in any significant way. The main thing that happened was I no longer attended Sage meetings.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/06/professor-neil-ferguson-covid-modelling-epidemiologist-faces-of-2020

    "Risk based judgment" is up there with testing my eye sight, and the same sort of excuses people use when it comes to using certain types of illegal drugs (the "research chemical" lot).

    But clearly he still worked for SAGE, just didn't go to the meeting.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,590
    What are the chances of No Deal atm?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Health bosses have told people over 80 not to panic if they have not been contacted about the coronavirus vaccine – as it is revealed that most of them will not get a jab until the New Year as mass immunisation begins.

    Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, said people need to 'hang fire' and be assured that they have not been forgotten about, despite not receiving a letter or a phone call about the vaccine.

    He told the PA news agency: 'I don't think people should expect anything over the next few days because the reality is, as I said, that for the vast, vast, vast majority of people this will be done in January, February, March.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9024821/Coronavirus-UK-80s-wont-vaccine-new-year.html

    Even oldies aren't getting this until Jan-March, I think all the talk of we will be free by March is the government again over promising. Seems more like ETA is end of summer (if Oxford vaccine gets approved and we give that to the plebs).

    We won't be completely free until the late summer, but if we've vaccinated those most likely to spread CV19 and those most likely to die from it, then you can relax a lot of other restrictions - especially as the virus naturally recedes as people spend less time indoors.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    rcs1000 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Health bosses have told people over 80 not to panic if they have not been contacted about the coronavirus vaccine – as it is revealed that most of them will not get a jab until the New Year as mass immunisation begins.

    Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, said people need to 'hang fire' and be assured that they have not been forgotten about, despite not receiving a letter or a phone call about the vaccine.

    He told the PA news agency: 'I don't think people should expect anything over the next few days because the reality is, as I said, that for the vast, vast, vast majority of people this will be done in January, February, March.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9024821/Coronavirus-UK-80s-wont-vaccine-new-year.html

    Even oldies aren't getting this until Jan-March, I think all the talk of we will be free by March is the government again over promising. Seems more like ETA is end of summer (if Oxford vaccine gets approved and we give that to the plebs).

    We won't be completely free until the late summer, but if we've vaccinated those most likely to spread CV19 and those most likely to die from it, then you can relax a lot of other restrictions - especially as the virus naturally recedes as people spend less time indoors.
    At least, with vaccines starting to get approved, we can all start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It won’t happen overnight, but the case rates, and importantly the healthcare system demand, should start to fall quickly as the vaccine rollout progresses.

    We know we’ll be back to normal soon, even if that normal ends up looking slightly different from the 2019 normal we remember. The knowledge that we are winning the fight against the damn virus should help in itself.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

    If "bat shit crazy" is a comorbidity, then he's in real trouble.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Health bosses have told people over 80 not to panic if they have not been contacted about the coronavirus vaccine – as it is revealed that most of them will not get a jab until the New Year as mass immunisation begins.

    Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, said people need to 'hang fire' and be assured that they have not been forgotten about, despite not receiving a letter or a phone call about the vaccine.

    He told the PA news agency: 'I don't think people should expect anything over the next few days because the reality is, as I said, that for the vast, vast, vast majority of people this will be done in January, February, March.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9024821/Coronavirus-UK-80s-wont-vaccine-new-year.html

    Even oldies aren't getting this until Jan-March, I think all the talk of we will be free by March is the government again over promising. Seems more like ETA is end of summer (if Oxford vaccine gets approved and we give that to the plebs).

    We won't be completely free until the late summer, but if we've vaccinated those most likely to spread CV19 and those most likely to die from it, then you can relax a lot of other restrictions - especially as the virus naturally recedes as people spend less time indoors.
    At least, with vaccines starting to get approved, we can all start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It won’t happen overnight, but the case rates, and importantly the healthcare system demand, should start to fall quickly as the vaccine rollout progresses.

    We know we’ll be back to normal soon, even if that normal ends up looking slightly different from the 2019 normal we remember. The knowledge that we are winning the fight against the damn virus should help in itself.
    It's also worth remembering that there are three (Western) vaccines that are on the cusp of approval, and another dozen or so in the pipeline. (Including at least one - J&J - that is single shot, and is in advanced Phase 3 trials.)

    It's far from inconceivable that there will be five or six approved vaccines by Easter, each of which is having hundreds of millions of doses made per month.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    https://twitter.com/marketwarbles/status/1335821236580978689
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited December 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Health bosses have told people over 80 not to panic if they have not been contacted about the coronavirus vaccine – as it is revealed that most of them will not get a jab until the New Year as mass immunisation begins.

    Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, said people need to 'hang fire' and be assured that they have not been forgotten about, despite not receiving a letter or a phone call about the vaccine.

    He told the PA news agency: 'I don't think people should expect anything over the next few days because the reality is, as I said, that for the vast, vast, vast majority of people this will be done in January, February, March.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9024821/Coronavirus-UK-80s-wont-vaccine-new-year.html

    Even oldies aren't getting this until Jan-March, I think all the talk of we will be free by March is the government again over promising. Seems more like ETA is end of summer (if Oxford vaccine gets approved and we give that to the plebs).

    We won't be completely free until the late summer, but if we've vaccinated those most likely to spread CV19 and those most likely to die from it, then you can relax a lot of other restrictions - especially as the virus naturally recedes as people spend less time indoors.
    At least, with vaccines starting to get approved, we can all start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It won’t happen overnight, but the case rates, and importantly the healthcare system demand, should start to fall quickly as the vaccine rollout progresses.

    We know we’ll be back to normal soon, even if that normal ends up looking slightly different from the 2019 normal we remember. The knowledge that we are winning the fight against the damn virus should help in itself.
    It's also worth remembering that there are three (Western) vaccines that are on the cusp of approval, and another dozen or so in the pipeline. (Including at least one - J&J - that is single shot, and is in advanced Phase 3 trials.)

    It's far from inconceivable that there will be five or six approved vaccines by Easter, each of which is having hundreds of millions of doses made per month.
    Let’s hope so! As you say, it should only be good news from this point as more vaccines get approved and production ramps up. Maybe I might get to see my parents next year! :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    rcs1000 said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

    If "bat shit crazy" is a comorbidity, then he's in real trouble.
    Be careful what you wish for. The last thing we need is for Trump to get a competent lawyer.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited December 2020
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

    If "bat shit crazy" is a comorbidity, then he's in real trouble.
    Be careful what you wish for. The last thing we need is for Trump to get a competent lawyer.
    Even if the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were pulling out all the stops for Trump he wouldn't be President after Jan 20th.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Roger said:

    Guilliani contacting covid is unfortunate but you'd need a heart of stone not to find it funny

    Laughing at somebody getting a virus that causes painful death and multiple organ failure at a reasonable level among their demographic, what a charmer you are.
    It's the way you tell 'em Francis!

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Health bosses have told people over 80 not to panic if they have not been contacted about the coronavirus vaccine – as it is revealed that most of them will not get a jab until the New Year as mass immunisation begins.

    Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, said people need to 'hang fire' and be assured that they have not been forgotten about, despite not receiving a letter or a phone call about the vaccine.

    He told the PA news agency: 'I don't think people should expect anything over the next few days because the reality is, as I said, that for the vast, vast, vast majority of people this will be done in January, February, March.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9024821/Coronavirus-UK-80s-wont-vaccine-new-year.html

    Even oldies aren't getting this until Jan-March, I think all the talk of we will be free by March is the government again over promising. Seems more like ETA is end of summer (if Oxford vaccine gets approved and we give that to the plebs).

    We won't be completely free until the late summer, but if we've vaccinated those most likely to spread CV19 and those most likely to die from it, then you can relax a lot of other restrictions - especially as the virus naturally recedes as people spend less time indoors.
    At least, with vaccines starting to get approved, we can all start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It won’t happen overnight, but the case rates, and importantly the healthcare system demand, should start to fall quickly as the vaccine rollout progresses.

    We know we’ll be back to normal soon, even if that normal ends up looking slightly different from the 2019 normal we remember. The knowledge that we are winning the fight against the damn virus should help in itself.
    It's also worth remembering that there are three (Western) vaccines that are on the cusp of approval, and another dozen or so in the pipeline. (Including at least one - J&J - that is single shot, and is in advanced Phase 3 trials.)

    It's far from inconceivable that there will be five or six approved vaccines by Easter, each of which is having hundreds of millions of doses made per month.
    J&J have added a booster shot arm to their trial, FWIW.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

    He was reportedly feeling symptoms several days ago - and would have been infectious before that.
    Arizona state legislature has closed, as he met maskless with a number of Republicans. There’s also this.
    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1335689384830636033
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    edited December 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

    He was reportedly feeling symptoms several days ago - and would have been infectious before that.
    Arizona state legislature has closed, as he met maskless with a number of Republicans. There’s also this.
    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1335689384830636033
    Does that mean that the legislature couldn’t pass any emergency laws even if it wanted to? That would be irony I think.

    Edit: why didn’t he get himself tested earlier then?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

    He was reportedly feeling symptoms several days ago - and would have been infectious before that.
    Arizona state legislature has closed, as he met maskless with a number of Republicans. There’s also this.
    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1335689384830636033
    Does that mean that the legislature couldn’t pass any emergency laws even if it wanted to? That would be irony I think.

    Edit: why didn’t he get himself tested earlier then?
    Karma’s only a bitch if you are...

    For your edit, because he’s a total moron.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Will today be the day the phony Brexit negotiations end and we end up with a deal outline?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    ydoethur said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

    He was reportedly feeling symptoms several days ago - and would have been infectious before that.
    Arizona state legislature has closed, as he met maskless with a number of Republicans. There’s also this.
    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1335689384830636033
    Does that mean that the legislature couldn’t pass any emergency laws even if it wanted to? That would be irony I think.

    Edit: why didn’t he get himself tested earlier then?
    Karma’s only a bitch if you are...

    For your edit, because he’s a total moron.
    Although I wonder if I’m a bit unfair there. After all, a couple of weeks ago I was showing strange symptoms and hesitant about being tested. In fact, it was advice from you guys that made me go and get the test.

    However, if it’s serious enough for him to be hospitalised, that suggests his symptoms weren’t the odd coughing fit at long intervals.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited December 2020
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Will today be the day the phony Brexit negotiations end and we end up with a deal outline?

    And tomorrow the day the French make all Nigel Farage’s dreams come true at once by vetoing it?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    The Bank of Biden has upped its interest rate overnight, for no clear reason.
    Current Betfair prices:-

    Biden 1.04
    Democrats 1.04
    Biden PV 1.02
    Biden PV 49-51.9% 1.03
    Trump PV 46-48.9% 1.04
    Trump ECV 210-239 1.06
    Biden ECV 300-329 1.06
    Biden ECV Hcap -48.5 1.05
    Biden ECV Hcap -63.5 1.06
    Trump ECV Hcap +81.5 no offers

    AZ Dem 1.05
    GA Dem 1.05
    MI Dem 1.03
    NV Dem 1.05
    PA Dem 1.04
    WI Dem 1.05

    Trump to leave before end of term NO 1.12
    Trump exit date 2021 1.07
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Good morning, everyone.

    For those who missed it:

    F1: post-race quite excited ramble:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2020/12/sakhir-post-race-analysis-2020.html

    Very exciting race.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    For those who missed it:

    F1: post-race quite excited ramble:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2020/12/sakhir-post-race-analysis-2020.html

    Very exciting race.

    Although after all the excitement Russell went a bit flat near the finish.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited December 2020
    Barnier agrees with “ Number 10 sources”
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1335843018558074881?s=20
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    CarlottaVance said:

    Barnier agrees with “ Number 10 sources”
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1335843018558074881?s=20

    So where did they come from? And why were they so specific?

    Was somebody senior trying to bounce both sides into accepting a compromise that neither had proposed?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    For those who missed it:

    F1: post-race quite excited ramble:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2020/12/sakhir-post-race-analysis-2020.html

    Very exciting race.

    Russell on board of the fk-up pitstop.
    youtube.com/watch?v=o662M35vYnU

    Bottas on board
    youtube.com/watch?v=Im8bokJ1JSw

    One of the mechanics on the front left spotted the issue as George pulled away, but too late to stop him.

    The decision to pit GR in the first place was very last-minute and confused, the SC got called as he was only a couple of seconds from the pit entry.

    In Mercedes typically-candid race review, they put it down to crossed radio messages meaning the pit crew thought Russell was going around and Bottas stopping. Improving their communication system sounds like a winter project!
    https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2020/2020-sakhir-grand-prix/2020-sakhir-grand-prix-sunday-bottas-hamilton-mercedes/
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,080
    edited December 2020
    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

    While I wish no genuine ill to the man, I am sure I am not alone in thinking that he brought it on himself and that, as they say, "Karma is a Priti".

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    ydoethur said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    For those who missed it:

    F1: post-race quite excited ramble:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2020/12/sakhir-post-race-analysis-2020.html

    Very exciting race.

    Although after all the excitement Russell went a bit flat near the finish.
    I felt sorry for him. He had the race won twice but his charge to second again after the first fiasco showed what he could do and he gained several places in the last few laps to get into the points. Overall, I think that he showed he could start well, control a race, cut through the field and respond positively to set backs. If I was Bottas I would be worried, he was pedestrian in pretty much all those aspects and the difference was marked.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,080
    williamglenn said:

    Something tells me John Redwood isn’t really on top of the details.

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1335477504077950976?s=21

    The stupidest man ever to enter All Souls.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. Sandpit, yeah, very unfortunate for Russell. But he did show he can drive flawlessly, handling his first front row start perfectly, the VSC, safety car, twice passing his far more experienced team mate, and only losing the win due to a combination of a radio failure by the team and a puncture.

    If Bottas is on a one year contract he should start looking for a 2022 seat now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Sandpit, yeah, very unfortunate for Russell. But he did show he can drive flawlessly, handling his first front row start perfectly, the VSC, safety car, twice passing his far more experienced team mate, and only losing the win due to a combination of a radio failure by the team and a puncture.

    If Bottas is on a one year contract he should start looking for a 2022 seat now.

    Bottas is indeed on a one year contract at Mercedes. I’m sure Toto will be emphasising to Williams how good it would be if, for the all-new 2022 season, they could get their hands on a development driver with a decade of experience, who also knows the Williams team.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    Ha!


  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    For those who missed it:

    F1: post-race quite excited ramble:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2020/12/sakhir-post-race-analysis-2020.html

    Very exciting race.

    Although after all the excitement Russell went a bit flat near the finish.
    I felt sorry for him. He had the race won twice but his charge to second again after the first fiasco showed what he could do and he gained several places in the last few laps to get into the points. Overall, I think that he showed he could start well, control a race, cut through the field and respond positively to set backs. If I was Bottas I would be worried, he was pedestrian in pretty much all those aspects and the difference was marked.
    I thought the word 'flat' referred to the puncture and was rather appropriate.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    ydoethur said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Barnier agrees with “ Number 10 sources”
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1335843018558074881?s=20

    So where did they come from? And why were they so specific?

    Was somebody senior trying to bounce both sides into accepting a compromise that neither had proposed?
    The original source was “EU sources” which the Grauniad splashed on their front page. U.K. sources suggested to R4 Today that the agreement was an internal EU one - ie they’d agreed among themselves.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    CarlottaVance said:

    ydoethur said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Barnier agrees with “ Number 10 sources”
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1335843018558074881?s=20

    So where did they come from? And why were they so specific?

    Was somebody senior trying to bounce both sides into accepting a compromise that neither had proposed?
    The original source was “EU sources” which the Grauniad splashed on their front page. U.K. sources suggested to R4 Today that the agreement was an internal EU one - ie they’d agreed among themselves.
    If so that explains why they said 5-7 years, that was a bit odd to have a range rather than a specific number.

    If so, it might end up at five then if it's leaked that they're willing to accept five. Oops.

    Though we will no doubt have to wait and see. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, yadda, yadda, yadda.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited December 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Will today be the day the phony Brexit negotiations end and we end up with a deal outline?

    And tomorrow the day the French make all Nigel Farage’s dreams come true at once by vetoing it?
    He will likely cash in on the markets again, I expect, in that eventuality, enjoy a brief moment of self-indulgence and glory wiith Redwood and others, and then disappear off into the sunset, to the US or a a tax haven once the real day-to-day effects on the economy start to be felt.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting point - in the event of “no deal” European car manufacturers will lose their 10% tariff advantage vs other global sites - for example, BMW manufactures in both the USA & South Africa - so depending on cost may shift their sourcing.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    DavidL said:

    My wife took her mother shopping after church yesterday. She tells me that the town was incredibly quiet with groups of shop assistants in the likes of M&S and WH Smith standing around chatting to each other with nothing to do outnumbering the customers. Three weeks before Christmas this is extraordinary and bodes ill for what remains of the High Street.

    I can't help feeling that Nicola is partly responsible for that. One of the staff volunteered that they used to get a lot of people coming from surrounding towns but they have been discouraged from travelling. We have not had the shop local campaigns that England seem to have had. No doubt it means an even more bumper Christmas for the likes of Amazon but the carnage on the High Street is likely to continue, vaccine or no.

    In our main shopping centre Debenhams is the key store, indeed its the last large scale general department store in the city. When it goes dark footfall is likely to fall even further. Its ominous.

    Really is a K Shaped recovery isn’t it. My local high st in Kent was absolutely jumping on Saturday, despite none of the F&B being open for lunch after you’ve finished shopping. It’s also one dominated by small independents, good to see them allowed open for business.

    Shutting shops for a month and forcing all Christmas shopping into just three weekends really was the dumbest of all the dumb acts perpetrated by the government this year.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,601
    rcs1000 said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

    If "bat shit crazy" is a comorbidity, then he's in real trouble.
    Trmp recovered, so that would suggest not....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1335851096951017473?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    CarlottaVance said:

    ydoethur said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Barnier agrees with “ Number 10 sources”
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1335843018558074881?s=20

    So where did they come from? And why were they so specific?

    Was somebody senior trying to bounce both sides into accepting a compromise that neither had proposed?
    The original source was “EU sources” which the Grauniad splashed on their front page. U.K. sources suggested to R4 Today that the agreement was an internal EU one - ie they’d agreed among themselves.
    Oh to be a fly on the wall in the internal EU discussions between France and Ireland at the moment. France seem to be relishing no-deal disruption, but Ireland are totally screwed by it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

    He was reportedly feeling symptoms several days ago - and would have been infectious before that.
    Arizona state legislature has closed, as he met maskless with a number of Republicans. There’s also this.
    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1335689384830636033
    Does that mean that the legislature couldn’t pass any emergency laws even if it wanted to? That would be irony I think.

    Edit: why didn’t he get himself tested earlier then?
    Karma’s only a bitch if you are...

    For your edit, because he’s a total moron.
    Although I wonder if I’m a bit unfair there. After all, a couple of weeks ago I was showing strange symptoms and hesitant about being tested. In fact, it was advice from you guys that made me go and get the test.

    However, if it’s serious enough for him to be hospitalised, that suggests his symptoms weren’t the odd coughing fit at long intervals.
    Pretty sure you didn't display the kind of criminal recklessness towards the safety of others that Giuliani showed.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

    He was reportedly feeling symptoms several days ago - and would have been infectious before that.
    Arizona state legislature has closed, as he met maskless with a number of Republicans. There’s also this.
    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1335689384830636033
    Does that mean that the legislature couldn’t pass any emergency laws even if it wanted to? That would be irony I think.

    Edit: why didn’t he get himself tested earlier then?
    Karma’s only a bitch if you are...

    For your edit, because he’s a total moron.
    Although I wonder if I’m a bit unfair there. After all, a couple of weeks ago I was showing strange symptoms and hesitant about being tested. In fact, it was advice from you guys that made me go and get the test.

    However, if it’s serious enough for him to be hospitalised, that suggests his symptoms weren’t the odd coughing fit at long intervals.
    Pretty sure you didn't display the kind of criminal recklessness towards the safety of others that Giuliani showed.
    Like taking 3c for history?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,601
    Philip_Thompson said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    ydoethur said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Barnier agrees with “ Number 10 sources”
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1335843018558074881?s=20

    So where did they come from? And why were they so specific?

    Was somebody senior trying to bounce both sides into accepting a compromise that neither had proposed?
    The original source was “EU sources” which the Grauniad splashed on their front page. U.K. sources suggested to R4 Today that the agreement was an internal EU one - ie they’d agreed among themselves.
    If so that explains why they said 5-7 years, that was a bit odd to have a range rather than a specific number.

    If so, it might end up at five then if it's leaked that they're willing to accept five. Oops.

    Though we will no doubt have to wait and see. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, yadda, yadda, yadda.
    The French have had four and a half years since the Referendum result to keep fishing our waters. Give them eight - then net that off.....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    MarqueeMark said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

    If "bat shit crazy" is a comorbidity, then he's in real trouble.
    Trmp recovered, so that would suggest not....
    Like Trump, he'll probably be given the (still scarce) Regeneron treatment. And will have access to a standard of care denied to the majority of seriously ill now struggling to get admitted to overcrowded ICUs.
    I'd say his chances are pretty good.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    Giuliani is in hospital:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55210243

    Hopefully a precaution; if not that implies he was infected some time ago and has been infectious for a while.

    He was reportedly feeling symptoms several days ago - and would have been infectious before that.
    Arizona state legislature has closed, as he met maskless with a number of Republicans. There’s also this.
    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1335689384830636033
    Does that mean that the legislature couldn’t pass any emergency laws even if it wanted to? That would be irony I think.

    Edit: why didn’t he get himself tested earlier then?
    Karma’s only a bitch if you are...

    For your edit, because he’s a total moron.
    Although I wonder if I’m a bit unfair there. After all, a couple of weeks ago I was showing strange symptoms and hesitant about being tested. In fact, it was advice from you guys that made me go and get the test.

    However, if it’s serious enough for him to be hospitalised, that suggests his symptoms weren’t the odd coughing fit at long intervals.
    Pretty sure you didn't display the kind of criminal recklessness towards the safety of others that Giuliani showed.
    Like taking 3c for history?
    Well there's that.
    And this.
    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1335689384830636033
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1335856030052470784?s=20
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    It's a short clip but the woman who doesn't take her mask off doesn't appear to be batshit crazy, so what's she doing sat next to Guiliani?

    Every other clip I've seen has been raving crazies and even someone appearing drunk.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1335858188474871808
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1335848651181215746
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited December 2020
    DavidL said:

    My wife took her mother shopping after church yesterday. She tells me that the town was incredibly quiet with groups of shop assistants in the likes of M&S and WH Smith standing around chatting to each other with nothing to do outnumbering the customers. Three weeks before Christmas this is extraordinary and bodes ill for what remains of the High Street.

    I can't help feeling that Nicola is partly responsible for that. One of the staff volunteered that they used to get a lot of people coming from surrounding towns but they have been discouraged from travelling. We have not had the shop local campaigns that England seem to have had. No doubt it means an even more bumper Christmas for the likes of Amazon but the carnage on the High Street is likely to continue, vaccine or no.

    In our main shopping centre Debenhams is the key store, indeed its the last large scale general department store in the city. When it goes dark footfall is likely to fall even further. Its ominous.

    Don't worry. When you get rid of the UK and get back in the EU they'll come flooding from every corner of Europe. Your Harris tweed and Scottish wool not to mention Scottish salmon and Loch Ness curios will sell like Scotch and Haggis on Burns Night.

    Bonnie Scotland. The gateway to the Northern EU!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1335858549772136448?s=20
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1335848651181215746

    Lesson 1 in basic diplomacy: Be prepared to walk away.

    Lesson 2: See lesson 1

    Lesson 3: See lesson 1

    Lesson 4: Ignore anything by Scott or Adonis.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Cicero said:

    williamglenn said:

    Something tells me John Redwood isn’t really on top of the details.

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1335477504077950976?s=21

    The stupidest man ever to enter All Souls.
    There will be more than a few toasts drunk around Europe when they get rid of us.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Philip_Thompson said:

    It's a short clip but the woman who doesn't take her mask off doesn't appear to be batshit crazy, so what's she doing sat next to Guiliani?

    Every other clip I've seen has been raving crazies and even someone appearing drunk.

    She was the one who testified that she insisted that every voter provide ID, despite there being no requirement for them to do so, because otherwise she “wouldn’t feel comfortable letting them vote”. Just one of the huge number alleging “fraud” through pure ignorance of electoral processes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1335858549772136448?s=20

    Are RTE still not understanding the concept of a backstop?

    The Internal Markets Bill will be withdrawn once a trade deal is in place.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1335860472139165702
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    On Govt’s plans to blame businesses for not preparing sufficiently for the end of the transition.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/07/uk-firms-still-unclear-about-brexit-rules-with-one-month-to-go

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    alex_ said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    It's a short clip but the woman who doesn't take her mask off doesn't appear to be batshit crazy, so what's she doing sat next to Guiliani?

    Every other clip I've seen has been raving crazies and even someone appearing drunk.

    She was the one who testified that she insisted that every voter provide ID, despite there being no requirement for them to do so, because otherwise she “wouldn’t feel comfortable letting them vote”. Just one of the huge number alleging “fraud” through pure ignorance of electoral processes.
    So she was crazy. And testified in the court that she herself broke the law if she denied people the right to vote without ID against the law.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1335858549772136448?s=20

    Obvious from the start. The IM Bill has served its purpose if the EU gives us what we wanted, if they don't then we just keep the IM Bill.

    A win/win; heads we win, tails you lose scenario.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/smartin/status/1335861909350969344
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1335862519601254400
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    The foreign exchange markets seem to be finally showing some movement.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1335848651181215746

    Lesson 1 in basic diplomacy: Be prepared to walk away.

    Lesson 2: See lesson 1

    Lesson 3: See lesson 1

    Lesson 4: Ignore anything by Scott or Adonis.
    Lesson 1 don’t bother with PT you’ve heard it all before and it’s boring in the extreme
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1335862519601254400

    What we want is not unreasonable though. What we want is the same as the EU gave to more distant countries like Canada and Japan.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Philip_Thompson said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1335858549772136448?s=20

    Obvious from the start. The IM Bill has served its purpose if the EU gives us what we wanted, if they don't then we just keep the IM Bill.

    A win/win; heads we win, tails you lose scenario.
    Deluded
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1335862519601254400

    What we want is not unreasonable though. What we want is the same as the EU gave to more distant countries like Canada and Japan.
    More whining. “Why won’t the big EU meanies give us what Canada and Japan have 😭😭😭 not fair”
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1335848651181215746

    Lesson 1 in basic diplomacy: Be prepared to walk away.

    Lesson 2: See lesson 1

    Lesson 3: See lesson 1

    Lesson 4: Ignore anything by Scott or Adonis.
    Are you inferring that our PM is trustworthy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1335858549772136448?s=20

    Obvious from the start. The IM Bill has served its purpose if the EU gives us what we wanted, if they don't then we just keep the IM Bill.

    A win/win; heads we win, tails you lose scenario.
    Deluded
    The Bill was Cummings's idea of a "good idea", but as per usual it started to go wrong when it made contact with reality, particularly the election of an Irish-American in the form of Biden.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1335862519601254400

    It looks to me like that's exactly what they are discussing today:

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1335847910425112576?s=19
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,601
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1335856030052470784?s=20

    Level playing field was always going to be the toughest. The EU are requiring the UK to behave as if we have not left the EU. To which the only - and continuing - response is "Fuck off".
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1335865205729996801
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    MarqueeMark said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1335856030052470784?s=20

    Level playing field was always going to be the toughest. The EU are requiring the UK to behave as if we have not left the EU. To which the only - and continuing - response is "Fuck off".
    “😭😭😭”
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1335851096951017473?s=20

    Yes, they are agreeing to water down their demands on LPF.

    I think we're two days away from a Deal here and it's enough for me to buy more UK equity this morning.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    MarqueeMark said:

    To which the only - and continuing - response is "Fuck off".

    That is indeed BoZo's message to UK business...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1335860472139165702

    So it looks like I we will be ok for meds until Feb half term and then the six week stockpiles may have run down.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    MarqueeMark said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1335856030052470784?s=20

    Level playing field was always going to be the toughest. The EU are requiring the UK to behave as if we have not left the EU. To which the only - and continuing - response is "Fuck off".
    Why oh why won't these dastardly foreigners let us have all the benefits without any of the responsibilities?

    It's so unfair!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,601
    Scott_xP said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    To which the only - and continuing - response is "Fuck off".

    That is indeed BoZo's message to UK business...
    Your abilities as a negotiator continue to shine through.....
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited December 2020
    MarqueeMark said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1335856030052470784?s=20

    Level playing field was always going to be the toughest. The EU are requiring the UK to behave as if we have not left the EU. To which the only - and continuing - response is "Fuck off".
    And to be fair, if most people asked to leave something, but still be treated as members, that would indeed be the response of most clubs, too.

    Disclaimer : this post could have been put on this site at any time in the last 54 months.
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    Do we know if this is true?

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1335718561633931265?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    MarqueeMark said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1335856030052470784?s=20

    Level playing field was always going to be the toughest. The EU are requiring the UK to behave as if we have not left the EU. To which the only - and continuing - response is "Fuck off".
    Yes, it’s a demand that the UK implement without question future EU law, which loose lips in the EU have already suggested will be specifically designed to screw the UK in areas such as financial services, under the cloak of being about labour standards.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    This week, the NHS will make contact with patients to let them know that the vaccine is available to them, the chief executive of the NHS Confederation has said.

    "We will be targeting this week those patients who are due to attend hospital for outpatient appointments at one of those 50 sites," Danny Mortimer told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    telegraph live blog
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    By Adonis' 'reasoning', nobody could ever leave the EU because negotiations only began, at the EU's insistence, when Article 50 was triggered.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,429
    Casino_Royale said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1335851096951017473?s=20

    Yes, they are agreeing to water down their demands on LPF.

    I think we're two days away from a Deal here and it's enough for me to buy more UK equity this morning.
    That's brave of you. Generally speaking, it seems extremely unlikely that the EU will agree any deal that leaves the UK with anything approaching the benefits of EU membership, and I'm not sure that's all already priced in.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,803
    MarqueeMark said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1335856030052470784?s=20

    Level playing field was always going to be the toughest. The EU are requiring the UK to behave as if we have not left the EU. To which the only - and continuing - response is "Fuck off".
    Not true though is it. The EU is quite happy for us to trade as an independent country with all our own rules, BUT, BUT don't then expect to get a free trade agreement.

    Anyone agreeing to this would be bonkers. It would mean the Govt could ensure our businesses could undercut European competitors unfairly.

    Cake and eat it applies.

    So I repeat the EU is NOT requiring us to behave as if we have not left. It is entirely up to us. On the contrary it is us who want the both the benefits of membership without the consequences.

    To which the response by the EU is 'Fuck off'.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,152
    edited December 2020
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Health bosses have told people over 80 not to panic if they have not been contacted about the coronavirus vaccine – as it is revealed that most of them will not get a jab until the New Year as mass immunisation begins.

    Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, said people need to 'hang fire' and be assured that they have not been forgotten about, despite not receiving a letter or a phone call about the vaccine.

    He told the PA news agency: 'I don't think people should expect anything over the next few days because the reality is, as I said, that for the vast, vast, vast majority of people this will be done in January, February, March.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9024821/Coronavirus-UK-80s-wont-vaccine-new-year.html

    Even oldies aren't getting this until Jan-March, I think all the talk of we will be free by March is the government again over promising. Seems more like ETA is end of summer (if Oxford vaccine gets approved and we give that to the plebs).

    That quote isn't clear whether, by "vast, vast, vast majority of people" he means the over 80s the article focuses on or people generally. The infographic refers to rollout to all over 50s from mid January. so it's quite a badly written article.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1335851096951017473?s=20

    Yes, they are agreeing to water down their demands on LPF.

    I think we're two days away from a Deal here and it's enough for me to buy more UK equity this morning.
    That's brave of you. Generally speaking, it seems extremely unlikely that the EU will agree any deal that leaves the UK with anything approaching the benefits of EU membership, and I'm not sure that's all already priced in.
    Neither the UK or the EU are seeking anything like EU membership.

    This is about agreeing the rules-based "floor" for an open no taxes, tariffs or quotas FTA in goods and the regression governance thereof.

    There's enough evidence here that both sides are moving to seal a deal that is already 97-98% there for me to take the plunge.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    TrèsDifficile said:

    Do we know if this is true?

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1335718561633931265?s=20

    The problem with state aid, is that the EU and their member states totally ignore all of the existing rules when it suits them - but they’re simultaneously wanting the UK to sign up to enforceable binding rules in the same areas.
This discussion has been closed.