Fauci etc. Wibble wibble wibble. Er no. He just withdrew it and apologised.
NHS Staff will no longer etc wibble wibble wibble. Sounds more like a gibberloon or two from the Guardian desperate to maintain fear because they need to have a 7295th go at the Govt, whilst avoiding doing any real journalism.
Investment in Roads means more emissions wibble wibble wibble. See zero emissions cars
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Suspect you're right, Ms V, but it's still a disappointment.
However, going off what Prof. JVT said, vaccinating care home staff isn't going to be easy. They'll have to attend hospitals, not be 'done' at their place of work.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Besides, the governments entire news management strategy consists of pre-briefing (leaking) stuff to selected media ahead of any official announcement. The detailed stories on priority order that have appeared in most of the press over the last few days won’t have come from anywhere else.
Trump seems to have decided that people need to be punished for not having re-elected him.
But he is also punishing people who did vote for him. Like class detention.
Of course! If you voted for Trump but also didn't shoot a Democrat voter before they cast their 17 votes for Biden then you deserve to die from the China plague which definitely doesn't exist and its only thanks to President Trump that we now have a cure for this hoax.
Looks like Trump will veto the defense bill over the social media nonsense. Could add a few senators to Biden's tally if Mo Brooks forces a senate vote on the electoral count.
I hate to think how low down the priority list @Dura_Ace will be...
I won't be rushing to get it. The approval has obviously been fast tracked for political and culture war reasons. It's probably been genetically engineered to make you wear golf club blazers and drive a Jag XF.
Remember when the Fireplace Salesman said the RAF would have squadrons of swarming autonomous drones in service by the end of 2020? They've got three weeks.
Sounds like nonsense to me. Who else would police it but an independent regulator? Was Boris proposing Donald Trump or something?
Surely an independent regulator was a UK demand, rather than the ECJ. Have I got this wrong?
Yeah, I had thought the sticking point was that the EU wanted the ECJ to adjudicate, and the UK wanted an independent body.
Now we want the ECJ to adjudicate, so we can have something to complain about.
Who in their senses would want the ECJ to adjudicate on anything? They must be the most corrupt and supine court in the developed world. They have no integrity, no sense, make daft laws up as they go along at the behest of the Advocate General and quite openly always side with the highest bidder.
The only really good argument for Brexit is if it takes us away from their malign influence.
Exactly.
It's really important we have someone to blame, to have an enemy who we can hate and castigate and blame.
If we have some kind of independent adjudicator, that's not going to work. But if it's the ECJ, then we can simultaneously be outside the EU, and yet still complain about the EU.
It's a brilliant ploy by Johnson.
The ECJ would always do what the Commission told them to. Because that’s what they’ve always done. So they cannot be independent.
If Johnson even proposes that, surely he would be instantly scalped by the Tory right.
Fauci or Williamson, who has more credibility? Tough one.
Despite that, I'm inclined to trust the MRHA decision. I'd like to see them take more time over the Oxford one (the report I've seen said "soon after Christmas") as it would be good to have either verification or at least credible explanation of the "lower dose protects you more" finding.
It's clearly a difficult decision for the Government if it's approved on the basis that it's 60% effective, while adeqaute supplies of the Pfizer/Moderna vaccine could take months to arrive. Not inclined to make a political point out of it, so long as the decisions are science-based and not because of Williamson singing Rule Britannia. The the MHRA decides the Oxford vaccine is also 90%, the dilemma vanishes.
The AZN/Oxford vaccine will not be as effective, but will be much cheaper, and easier to distribute.
My guess is that those who are high risk will get Pfizer/BioNTech, while the younger, healthier and more impatient will get AZN/Oxford.
Bit disappointed to learn that although I'm over 80, as I don't have any need for hospital appointments I'm not getting vaccinated. Yet, anyway.
Apparently, the now check people's social media presence before deciding who gets the vaccine, so maybe you should have been a bit more polite about Gavin Williamson.
I try not to think about Gavin Williamson, let alone post about him!
Sounds like nonsense to me. Who else would police it but an independent regulator? Was Boris proposing Donald Trump or something?
Surely an independent regulator was a UK demand, rather than the ECJ. Have I got this wrong?
Yeah, I had thought the sticking point was that the EU wanted the ECJ to adjudicate, and the UK wanted an independent body.
Now we want the ECJ to adjudicate, so we can have something to complain about.
Who in their senses would want the ECJ to adjudicate on anything? They must be the most corrupt and supine court in the developed world. They have no integrity, no sense, make daft laws up as they go along at the behest of the Advocate General and quite openly always side with the highest bidder.
The only really good argument for Brexit is if it takes us away from their malign influence.
Exactly.
It's really important we have someone to blame, to have an enemy who we can hate and castigate and blame.
If we have some kind of independent adjudicator, that's not going to work. But if it's the ECJ, then we can simultaneously be outside the EU, and yet still complain about the EU.
It's a brilliant ploy by Johnson.
The ECJ would always do what the Commission told them to. Because that’s what they’ve always done. So they cannot be independent.
If Johnson even proposes that, surely he would be instantly scalped by the Tory right.
Wooosh...
BoJo has long had a problem with the EU constraining his actions.
He thought the key phrase there was "EU", hence Brexit. Now it's much clearer that the key phrase is "constraining his actions", which is harder to fix.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
Sounds like nonsense to me. Who else would police it but an independent regulator? Was Boris proposing Donald Trump or something?
Surely an independent regulator was a UK demand, rather than the ECJ. Have I got this wrong?
Yeah, I had thought the sticking point was that the EU wanted the ECJ to adjudicate, and the UK wanted an independent body.
Now we want the ECJ to adjudicate, so we can have something to complain about.
Who in their senses would want the ECJ to adjudicate on anything? They must be the most corrupt and supine court in the developed world. They have no integrity, no sense, make daft laws up as they go along at the behest of the Advocate General and quite openly always side with the highest bidder.
The only really good argument for Brexit is if it takes us away from their malign influence.
Exactly.
It's really important we have someone to blame, to have an enemy who we can hate and castigate and blame.
If we have some kind of independent adjudicator, that's not going to work. But if it's the ECJ, then we can simultaneously be outside the EU, and yet still complain about the EU.
It's a brilliant ploy by Johnson.
The ECJ would always do what the Commission told them to. Because that’s what they’ve always done. So they cannot be independent.
If Johnson even proposes that, surely he would be instantly scalped by the Tory right.
If that were the case, why is it that the ECJ consistently overturns Commission decisions?
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
No the government communications have been consistent. They have always said care homes are priority 1, NHS staff are priority 2. No list has ever varied from that.
NHS communications that NHS staff will be "early" doesn't change that. They will be, they're in the top 2 priorities but every written list has always put them second to care homes.
Fauci etc. Wibble wibble wibble. Er no. He just withdrew it and apologised.
NHS Staff will no longer etc wibble wibble wibble. Sounds more like a gibberloon or two from the Guardian desperate to maintain fear because they need to have a 7295th go at the Govt, whilst avoiding doing any real journalism.
Investment in Roads means more emissions wibble wibble wibble. See zero emissions cars
The Sky's Falling in. See Henny Penny
Next...
Agree with all four. On the roads thing, I do get annoyed when people trot out the "roads generate traffic; it's called 'induced traffic', you know," thing.
I researched the phenomenon of induced traffic in considerable depth a couple of years ago (from the 1994 SACTRA report onwards), because I wanted to decide which side to take on some proposed local roads, and concluded that the "roads generate traffic" soundbite is oversimplistic and misleading. Because "lack of roads also generates traffic" is also equally true, and very often overrides the "roads generate traffic" element.
In essence, there are four sources of induced traffic: - People changing the time of their journey. When a bypass or improved roads are made available to reduce congestion, people who avoided the peak times to avoid the congestion can now drive at peak times, causing a temporal shift. Okay, this happens, but overall, it usually ends up with less congestion than originally (as if the congestion were to reach the same point, they'd switch back to going absurdly early or late)
- People changing the route of their journey. For example, instead of going through villages, they go via a new bypass. That's literally the point of it, though.
- People changing the mode of their journey. Such as people who did go via train or plane driving instead. The solution to this is to improve the alternate mode, as if they still prefer the congested roads, the alternate mode must be even worse.
- People making journeys that otherwise they would not have done. This is also arguably the entire point of having roads in the first place, and they'll only have incentive to do this if the overall level of congestion is still reduced.
Other than that, there is still increased demand for traffic - such as from new homes and new businesses. That's going to be there regardless of whether new roads are provided. If they're not, it means that existing roads will get further overloaded, people will have to travel at absurd times of the day, carry out rat runs, or simply not make needed journeys at all (as we see when the roads go down and seize up).
Anyone administering the vaccine should be first. You want to minimise infection risk both ways when administering the thing. NHS blood taking was seemingly efficient when I had it done, they could do the vaccine and should be first in the queue
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
First item on the list:
Vaccinating population cohorts at highest risk guided by the Joint Committee for Vaccinations and Immunisation (JCVI) interim guidance.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
These plans are going to be entirely dependent upon how much Pfizer vaccine we get and when. It looks as if the deliveries available before Christmas have been scaled back. Not quite sure why this is "flip-flopping".
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
No the government communications have been consistent. They have always said care homes are priority 1, NHS staff are priority 2. No list has ever varied from that.
NHS communications that NHS staff will be "early" doesn't change that. They will be, they're in the top 2 priorities but every written list has always put them second to care homes.
Which is why they have been briefing the NHS the opposite. Its not the briefing to the newspapers that's the issue, the press are picking up on the u-turn in the briefing to NHS staff.
The press are calling it a u-turn because its a u-turn. Sometimes circumstances dictate a change of plan - people understand that. But insisting nothing has changed isn't the best idea when people with eyes and a brain have the evidence in front of them proving that it has been changed.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
No the government communications have been consistent. They have always said care homes are priority 1, NHS staff are priority 2. No list has ever varied from that.
NHS communications that NHS staff will be "early" doesn't change that. They will be, they're in the top 2 priorities but every written list has always put them second to care homes.
Which is why they have been briefing the NHS the opposite. Its not the briefing to the newspapers that's the issue, the press are picking up on the u-turn in the briefing to NHS staff.
The press are calling it a u-turn because its a u-turn. Sometimes circumstances dictate a change of plan - people understand that. But insisting nothing has changed isn't the best idea when people with eyes and a brain have the evidence in front of them proving that it has been changed.
All communications always listed NHS as second tranche. Nothing ever said they'd be before care homes.
I hate to think how low down the priority list @Dura_Ace will be...
I won't be rushing to get it. The approval has obviously been fast tracked for political and culture war reasons. It's probably been genetically engineered to make you wear golf club blazers and drive a Jag XF.
Remember when the Fireplace Salesman said the RAF would have squadrons of swarming autonomous drones in service by the end of 2020? They've got three weeks.
Sounds like nonsense to me. Who else would police it but an independent regulator? Was Boris proposing Donald Trump or something?
Surely an independent regulator was a UK demand, rather than the ECJ. Have I got this wrong?
Yeah, I had thought the sticking point was that the EU wanted the ECJ to adjudicate, and the UK wanted an independent body.
Now we want the ECJ to adjudicate, so we can have something to complain about.
Who in their senses would want the ECJ to adjudicate on anything? They must be the most corrupt and supine court in the developed world. They have no integrity, no sense, make daft laws up as they go along at the behest of the Advocate General and quite openly always side with the highest bidder.
The only really good argument for Brexit is if it takes us away from their malign influence.
Exactly.
It's really important we have someone to blame, to have an enemy who we can hate and castigate and blame.
If we have some kind of independent adjudicator, that's not going to work. But if it's the ECJ, then we can simultaneously be outside the EU, and yet still complain about the EU.
It's a brilliant ploy by Johnson.
The ECJ would always do what the Commission told them to. Because that’s what they’ve always done. So they cannot be independent.
If Johnson even proposes that, surely he would be instantly scalped by the Tory right.
If that were the case, why is it that the ECJ consistently overturns Commission decisions?
It's hard to generalise but I would say it is mainly because the Commission is subject to pressure/bullying/corruption by Member States and other interest groups and compromises, grants exceptions etc whilst the Court looks to uphold the ideal of European unity striking down the imperfections that the real world has introduced.
The CJE and its Attorney Generals really are the keepers of the sacred flame forever pushing forward.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Link?
I was referring to one of the PM's press conferences of that week. But Rochdale has already linked to NHS communications - a quick Google throws up many more, using the word "confirmed". What's your agenda in seeking to deny the obvious - that the government has, yet again, rearranged the pitch>?
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
No the government communications have been consistent. They have always said care homes are priority 1, NHS staff are priority 2. No list has ever varied from that.
NHS communications that NHS staff will be "early" doesn't change that. They will be, they're in the top 2 priorities but every written list has always put them second to care homes.
Which is why they have been briefing the NHS the opposite. Its not the briefing to the newspapers that's the issue, the press are picking up on the u-turn in the briefing to NHS staff.
The press are calling it a u-turn because its a u-turn. Sometimes circumstances dictate a change of plan - people understand that. But insisting nothing has changed isn't the best idea when people with eyes and a brain have the evidence in front of them proving that it has been changed.
All communications always listed NHS as second tranche. Nothing ever said they'd be before care homes.
I'm not going to waste any more time waving the paperwork sent to the NHS saying the opposite. Believe what you want - its what the public think that's the important issue. And on this one they have told the NHS staff in the front line - the heroes we all had to virtue signal our support for in abeyance of funding and PPE - they'd get it up front to protect them from all the people they will exposer themselves to.
Saying "oh no they didn't" won't cut it. The story is out there. And to distract they send that brainless tosser Williamson to make claims so laughable that even the Tory press have mocked them.
Remember when the Fireplace Salesman said the RAF would have squadrons of swarming autonomous drones in service by the end of 2020? They've got three weeks.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
First item on the list:
Vaccinating population cohorts at highest risk guided by the Joint Committee for Vaccinations and Immunisation (JCVI) interim guidance.
Which is what the government is doing.
Or do you think the JCVI is wrong?
I do think that is wrong, everyone on the front line of vaccine delivery should be first
I can understand the u-turn. The government plan to spread the pox as widely as possible at Christmas, even cancelling and postponing roadworks and rail projects to let more people travel home to kill Granny.
So when they send NHS staff into pox-infested care homes to administer the vaccine of course they shouldn't have the vaccine first - how else are they supposed to spread Covid far and wide?
Anyone administering the vaccine should be first. You want to minimise infection risk both ways when administering the thing. NHS blood taking was seemingly efficient when I had it done, they could do the vaccine and should be first in the queue
I can understand the principle but that really doesn't make sense unless we are prepared to use all of our available vaccine on front line staff and then wait a month or so for them to get the protection. My wife and I had our flu jabs yesterday. I felt perfectly safe getting the jab from the practice nurse with each of us wearing masks and minimal contact.
The priority is to reduce the death toll. That means the most vulnerable first, NHS staff (as a potential vector for infection as you point out) second, those in similar roles such as teachers third etc.
Fauci etc. Wibble wibble wibble. Er no. He just withdrew it and apologised.
NHS Staff will no longer etc wibble wibble wibble. Sounds more like a gibberloon or two from the Guardian desperate to maintain fear because they need to have a 7295th go at the Govt, whilst avoiding doing any real journalism.
Investment in Roads means more emissions wibble wibble wibble. See zero emissions cars
The Sky's Falling in. See Henny Penny
Next...
Agree with all four. On the roads thing, I do get annoyed when people trot out the "roads generate traffic; it's called 'induced traffic', you know," thing.
I researched the phenomenon of induced traffic in considerable depth a couple of years ago (from the 1994 SACTRA report onwards), because I wanted to decide which side to take on some proposed local roads, and concluded that the "roads generate traffic" soundbite is oversimplistic and misleading. Because "lack of roads also generates traffic" is also equally true, and very often overrides the "roads generate traffic" element.
In essence, there are four sources of induced traffic: - People changing the time of their journey. When a bypass or improved roads are made available to reduce congestion, people who avoided the peak times to avoid the congestion can now drive at peak times, causing a temporal shift. Okay, this happens, but overall, it usually ends up with less congestion than originally (as if the congestion were to reach the same point, they'd switch back to going absurdly early or late)
- People changing the route of their journey. For example, instead of going through villages, they go via a new bypass. That's literally the point of it, though.
- People changing the mode of their journey. Such as people who did go via train or plane driving instead. The solution to this is to improve the alternate mode, as if they still prefer the congested roads, the alternate mode must be even worse.
- People making journeys that otherwise they would not have done. This is also arguably the entire point of having roads in the first place, and they'll only have incentive to do this if the overall level of congestion is still reduced.
Other than that, there is still increased demand for traffic - such as from new homes and new businesses. That's going to be there regardless of whether new roads are provided. If they're not, it means that existing roads will get further overloaded, people will have to travel at absurd times of the day, carry out rat runs, or simply not make needed journeys at all (as we see when the roads go down and seize up).
Ahem. Sorry. Touchy subject.
Your first two points are good. The second two less so, in that they do indeed result in an increase in traffic. The main problem with this is that it fails to take into account the negative externalities of increased traffic, such as increased pollution, reduced viability of public transport networks (impacting people with don't or can't drive) and reduced incentives to develop alternatives to driving, such as remote working. And we end up with town centres covered in car parks.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Link?
I was referring to one of the PM's press conferences of that week. But Rochdale has already linked to NHS communications - a quick Google throws up many more, using the word "confirmed". What's your agenda in seeking to deny the obvious - that the government has, yet again, rearranged the pitch>?
Where has the govt or the JVCI said NHS staff should be vaccinated before Care Home residents?
The NHS letter says NHS staff will be “very early” in being vaccinated. They are. They are in group 2 along with the over 80s - just not “First”. They are ahead of 95%+ of the rest of the U.K.
Anyone administering the vaccine should be first. You want to minimise infection risk both ways when administering the thing. NHS blood taking was seemingly efficient when I had it done, they could do the vaccine and should be first in the queue
I can understand the principle but that really doesn't make sense unless we are prepared to use all of our available vaccine on front line staff and then wait a month or so for them to get the protection. My wife and I had our flu jabs yesterday. I felt perfectly safe getting the jab from the practice nurse with each of us wearing masks and minimal contact.
The priority is to reduce the death toll. That means the most vulnerable first, NHS staff (as a potential vector for infection as you point out) second, those in similar roles such as teachers third etc.
It 's really pointless arguing with those whose agenda is all about politics - facts are clearly not their first priority here.
For what it's worth, here is Betfair's non-answer to my complaint about their handling of the US Presidential Election markets. I believe others have received similarly bland, unhelpful responses.
Dear Mr Smith,
I hope that this email finds you well.
I am writing to you in relation to your query regarding the settlement of bets placed on the Exchange markets relating to the USA Presidential Election.
I fully appreciate that you have concerns regarding the time-frame in which this market will be settled, however, settlement of the US Presidential Election and related markets will not be completed until the result is beyond doubt and unfortunately, this may take some time, given the possibility of recounts and current legal challenges filed by the Republican Party.
As such, given the highly contested nature of this election, the decision has been taken in the best interests of our customers to delay settling this market, until there is clarity around any ongoing recounts and legal challenges.
This decision has been taken in-line with our terms and conditions, which for ease of use, have been copied below:
In the event of any uncertainty about any result or potential result, Betfair reserves the right to suspend settlement of any market for an unlimited period until the uncertainty can be resolved to the reasonable satisfaction of Betfair.
Betfair reserves the right to void any market if the uncertainty regarding settlement cannot be resolved to Betfair's reasonable satisfaction.
Please note that we are keeping abreast of all developments in this on-going situation and will be settling this market as soon as there is no longer any uncertainty regarding the outcome of this election.
I fully appreciate that this is not the response which you had hoped to receive here, and I apologise for any frustration or inconvenience which this may have caused to you.
I hope that this clarifies the matter for you and should you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to reach out to our Helpdesk team.
Thanks,
Christian Escalation Management Team
SNAP
SNAP +1
A cut-and-paste corporate response which addresses none of the questions asked.
Key section:
"This decision has been taken in-line with our terms and conditions, which for ease of use, have been copied below:
In the event of any uncertainty about any result or potential result, Betfair reserves the right to suspend settlement of any market for an unlimited period until the uncertainty can be resolved to the reasonable satisfaction of Betfair."
Applying this catch-all small print means that we cannot rely on BF`s market specific rules when we place a bet.
Edit: over £19M this morning available about Biden at 1.03.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Link?
I was referring to one of the PM's press conferences of that week. But Rochdale has already linked to NHS communications - a quick Google throws up many more, using the word "confirmed". What's your agenda in seeking to deny the obvious - that the government has, yet again, rearranged the pitch>?
Where has the govt or the JVCI said NHS staff should be vaccinated before Care Home residents?
The NHS letter says NHS staff will be “very early” in being vaccinated. They are. They are in group 2 along with the over 80s - just not “First”. They are ahead of 95%+ of the rest of the U.K.
Read this. It is very clear that the NHS had been told to plan on one assumption and that this has now changed.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Link?
I was referring to one of the PM's press conferences of that week. But Rochdale has already linked to NHS communications - a quick Google throws up many more, using the word "confirmed". What's your agenda in seeking to deny the obvious - that the government has, yet again, rearranged the pitch>?
Where has the govt or the JVCI said NHS staff should be vaccinated before Care Home residents?
The NHS letter says NHS staff will be “very early” in being vaccinated. They are. They are in group 2 along with the over 80s - just not “First”. They are ahead of 95%+ of the rest of the U.K.
Ditto my previous reply - these people have no interest in anything other than attacking the government.
Anyone administering the vaccine should be first. You want to minimise infection risk both ways when administering the thing. NHS blood taking was seemingly efficient when I had it done, they could do the vaccine and should be first in the queue
I can understand the principle but that really doesn't make sense unless we are prepared to use all of our available vaccine on front line staff and then wait a month or so for them to get the protection. My wife and I had our flu jabs yesterday. I felt perfectly safe getting the jab from the practice nurse with each of us wearing masks and minimal contact.
The priority is to reduce the death toll. That means the most vulnerable first, NHS staff (as a potential vector for infection as you point out) second, those in similar roles such as teachers third etc.
It 's really pointless arguing with those whose agenda is all about politics - facts are clearly not their first priority here.
Yep, first in the world to approve the vaccine, first in the world to roll it out, there's got to be something to moan about here somewhere.
Sounds like nonsense to me. Who else would police it but an independent regulator? Was Boris proposing Donald Trump or something?
Surely an independent regulator was a UK demand, rather than the ECJ. Have I got this wrong?
Yeah, I had thought the sticking point was that the EU wanted the ECJ to adjudicate, and the UK wanted an independent body.
Now we want the ECJ to adjudicate, so we can have something to complain about.
Who in their senses would want the ECJ to adjudicate on anything? They must be the most corrupt and supine court in the developed world. They have no integrity, no sense, make daft laws up as they go along at the behest of the Advocate General and quite openly always side with the highest bidder.
The only really good argument for Brexit is if it takes us away from their malign influence.
Exactly.
It's really important we have someone to blame, to have an enemy who we can hate and castigate and blame.
If we have some kind of independent adjudicator, that's not going to work. But if it's the ECJ, then we can simultaneously be outside the EU, and yet still complain about the EU.
It's a brilliant ploy by Johnson.
The ECJ would always do what the Commission told them to. Because that’s what they’ve always done. So they cannot be independent.
If Johnson even proposes that, surely he would be instantly scalped by the Tory right.
If that were the case, why is it that the ECJ consistently overturns Commission decisions?
It's hard to generalise but I would say it is mainly because the Commission is subject to pressure/bullying/corruption by Member States and other interest groups and compromises, grants exceptions etc whilst the Court looks to uphold the ideal of European unity striking down the imperfections that the real world has introduced.
The CJE and its Attorney Generals really are the keepers of the sacred flame forever pushing forward.
Yep, I think that's right. In the absence of specific legislation stating otherwise, the CJEU will always go with more Europe. Often that means not doing what the Commission wants. It is certainly not corrupt, as had been claimed.
Anyone administering the vaccine should be first. You want to minimise infection risk both ways when administering the thing. NHS blood taking was seemingly efficient when I had it done, they could do the vaccine and should be first in the queue
I can understand the principle but that really doesn't make sense unless we are prepared to use all of our available vaccine on front line staff and then wait a month or so for them to get the protection. My wife and I had our flu jabs yesterday. I felt perfectly safe getting the jab from the practice nurse with each of us wearing masks and minimal contact.
The priority is to reduce the death toll. That means the most vulnerable first, NHS staff (as a potential vector for infection as you point out) second, those in similar roles such as teachers third etc.
It 's really pointless arguing with those whose agenda is all about politics - facts are clearly not their first priority here.
Yep, first in the world to approve the vaccine, first in the world to roll it out, there's got to be something to moan about here somewhere.
Had the plan been what it is this morning then that would have been fine. Had the plan changed and they said "in the circumstances we're revising the plan" then OK.
What fucks me off is the hypocrisy and the lies both from the government and from their parrots happy to pivot from one position to another and brazenly insist they have done no such thing. This is the sad reality of the post-truth alt-fact Brexit world we live in. The "footballification" of reality. It doesn't matter that its a documented fact that there has been a u-turn, our team says there hasn't so we have to chant the obvious lie.
Indeed. And as they appear to be haggling now over how to ensure that the UK doesn't at some point in the future wander away from the existing standards / tariffs arrangements it seems clear that we're going to be an associate member of the EEA and CU. We keep announcing "new" trade deals that openly provide continuity with the existing arrangements, so it won't be a surprise when the EU FTA does exactly the same on a grand basis.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
No the government communications have been consistent. They have always said care homes are priority 1, NHS staff are priority 2. No list has ever varied from that.
NHS communications that NHS staff will be "early" doesn't change that. They will be, they're in the top 2 priorities but every written list has always put them second to care homes.
Which is why they have been briefing the NHS the opposite. Its not the briefing to the newspapers that's the issue, the press are picking up on the u-turn in the briefing to NHS staff.
The press are calling it a u-turn because its a u-turn. Sometimes circumstances dictate a change of plan - people understand that. But insisting nothing has changed isn't the best idea when people with eyes and a brain have the evidence in front of them proving that it has been changed.
All communications always listed NHS as second tranche. Nothing ever said they'd be before care homes.
I'm not going to waste any more time waving the paperwork sent to the NHS saying the opposite. Believe what you want - its what the public think that's the important issue. And on this one they have told the NHS staff in the front line - the heroes we all had to virtue signal our support for in abeyance of funding and PPE - they'd get it up front to protect them from all the people they will exposer themselves to.
Saying "oh no they didn't" won't cut it. The story is out there. And to distract they send that brainless tosser Williamson to make claims so laughable that even the Tory press have mocked them.
You've sent no paperwork saying NHS before carers because it does not exist.
And in your eyes carers weren't heroes we signalled our support for? You think carers get an abundance of funding and PPE over and above the NHS?
You can't win this one as it's not true. Carers are bloody well "heroes" too.
Anyone administering the vaccine should be first. You want to minimise infection risk both ways when administering the thing. NHS blood taking was seemingly efficient when I had it done, they could do the vaccine and should be first in the queue
I can understand the principle but that really doesn't make sense unless we are prepared to use all of our available vaccine on front line staff and then wait a month or so for them to get the protection. My wife and I had our flu jabs yesterday. I felt perfectly safe getting the jab from the practice nurse with each of us wearing masks and minimal contact.
The priority is to reduce the death toll. That means the most vulnerable first, NHS staff (as a potential vector for infection as you point out) second, those in similar roles such as teachers third etc.
It 's really pointless arguing with those whose agenda is all about politics - facts are clearly not their first priority here.
Yep, first in the world to approve the vaccine, first in the world to roll it out, there's got to be something to moan about here somewhere.
Had the plan been what it is this morning then that would have been fine. Had the plan changed and they said "in the circumstances we're revising the plan" then OK.
What fucks me off is the hypocrisy and the lies both from the government and from their parrots happy to pivot from one position to another and brazenly insist they have done no such thing. This is the sad reality of the post-truth alt-fact Brexit world we live in. The "footballification" of reality. It doesn't matter that its a documented fact that there has been a u-turn, our team says there hasn't so we have to chant the obvious lie.
Fortunately we can all rely on your neutrality and even-handed approach:
"The government plan to spread the pox as widely as possible at Christmas, even cancelling and postponing roadworks and rail projects to let more people travel home to kill Granny.
So when they send NHS staff into pox-infested care homes to administer the vaccine of course they shouldn't have the vaccine first - how else are they supposed to spread Covid far and wide? "
Sounds like nonsense to me. Who else would police it but an independent regulator? Was Boris proposing Donald Trump or something?
Surely an independent regulator was a UK demand, rather than the ECJ. Have I got this wrong?
Yeah, I had thought the sticking point was that the EU wanted the ECJ to adjudicate, and the UK wanted an independent body.
Now we want the ECJ to adjudicate, so we can have something to complain about.
Who in their senses would want the ECJ to adjudicate on anything? They must be the most corrupt and supine court in the developed world. They have no integrity, no sense, make daft laws up as they go along at the behest of the Advocate General and quite openly always side with the highest bidder.
The only really good argument for Brexit is if it takes us away from their malign influence.
Exactly.
It's really important we have someone to blame, to have an enemy who we can hate and castigate and blame.
If we have some kind of independent adjudicator, that's not going to work. But if it's the ECJ, then we can simultaneously be outside the EU, and yet still complain about the EU.
It's a brilliant ploy by Johnson.
The ECJ would always do what the Commission told them to. Because that’s what they’ve always done. So they cannot be independent.
If Johnson even proposes that, surely he would be instantly scalped by the Tory right.
If that were the case, why is it that the ECJ consistently overturns Commission decisions?
It's hard to generalise but I would say it is mainly because the Commission is subject to pressure/bullying/corruption by Member States and other interest groups and compromises, grants exceptions etc whilst the Court looks to uphold the ideal of European unity striking down the imperfections that the real world has introduced.
The CJE and its Attorney Generals really are the keepers of the sacred flame forever pushing forward.
Yep, I think that's right. In the absence of specific legislation stating otherwise, the CJEU will always go with more Europe. Often that means not doing what the Commission wants. It is certainly not corrupt, as had been claimed.
Not corrupt. Incompetent, irrational, not like any other law court I have ever come across in that there is no real intent to interpret the law but instead to expand and extend it, but not corrupt. I will be unhappy if they are the arbiters on any deal. I would rather have a coin, its at least got 2 sides.
Anyone administering the vaccine should be first. You want to minimise infection risk both ways when administering the thing. NHS blood taking was seemingly efficient when I had it done, they could do the vaccine and should be first in the queue
I can understand the principle but that really doesn't make sense unless we are prepared to use all of our available vaccine on front line staff and then wait a month or so for them to get the protection. My wife and I had our flu jabs yesterday. I felt perfectly safe getting the jab from the practice nurse with each of us wearing masks and minimal contact.
The priority is to reduce the death toll. That means the most vulnerable first, NHS staff (as a potential vector for infection as you point out) second, those in similar roles such as teachers third etc.
It 's really pointless arguing with those whose agenda is all about politics - facts are clearly not their first priority here.
Yep, first in the world to approve the vaccine, first in the world to roll it out, there's got to be something to moan about here somewhere.
Had the plan been what it is this morning then that would have been fine. Had the plan changed and they said "in the circumstances we're revising the plan" then OK.
What fucks me off is the hypocrisy and the lies both from the government and from their parrots happy to pivot from one position to another and brazenly insist they have done no such thing. This is the sad reality of the post-truth alt-fact Brexit world we live in. The "footballification" of reality. It doesn't matter that its a documented fact that there has been a u-turn, our team says there hasn't so we have to chant the obvious lie.
Its dependent upon how much vaccine is delivered. That is not entirely in the government's control. This isn't hard.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Link?
I was referring to one of the PM's press conferences of that week. But Rochdale has already linked to NHS communications - a quick Google throws up many more, using the word "confirmed". What's your agenda in seeking to deny the obvious - that the government has, yet again, rearranged the pitch>?
Where has the govt or the JVCI said NHS staff should be vaccinated before Care Home residents?
The NHS letter says NHS staff will be “very early” in being vaccinated. They are. They are in group 2 along with the over 80s - just not “First”. They are ahead of 95%+ of the rest of the U.K.
Read this. It is very clear that the NHS had been told to plan on one assumption and that this has now changed.
Older inpatients have been moved up the list, and NHS staff pushed back to early 2021
In recent days, NHS plans had assumed NHS staff would receive this vaccine, known by the codename “courageous”. This is because it is only being sent to 50 “hub hospital” sites, due to the logistical challenges of correctly storing, handling and transferring it, most of which must be done at very low temperatures
So not “government u-turn” - but NHS assumption over-ruled by the JCVI.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
No the government communications have been consistent. They have always said care homes are priority 1, NHS staff are priority 2. No list has ever varied from that.
NHS communications that NHS staff will be "early" doesn't change that. They will be, they're in the top 2 priorities but every written list has always put them second to care homes.
Which is why they have been briefing the NHS the opposite. Its not the briefing to the newspapers that's the issue, the press are picking up on the u-turn in the briefing to NHS staff.
The press are calling it a u-turn because its a u-turn. Sometimes circumstances dictate a change of plan - people understand that. But insisting nothing has changed isn't the best idea when people with eyes and a brain have the evidence in front of them proving that it has been changed.
All communications always listed NHS as second tranche. Nothing ever said they'd be before care homes.
I'm not going to waste any more time waving the paperwork sent to the NHS saying the opposite. Believe what you want - its what the public think that's the important issue. And on this one they have told the NHS staff in the front line - the heroes we all had to virtue signal our support for in abeyance of funding and PPE - they'd get it up front to protect them from all the people they will exposer themselves to.
Saying "oh no they didn't" won't cut it. The story is out there. And to distract they send that brainless tosser Williamson to make claims so laughable that even the Tory press have mocked them.
You've sent no paperwork saying NHS before carers because it does not exist.
And in your eyes carers weren't heroes we signalled our support for? You think carers get an abundance of funding and PPE over and above the NHS?
You can't win this one as it's not true. Carers are bloody well "heroes" too.
The biggest change is moving elderly inpatients up the queue, jumping ahead of both care and NHS workers. That's the reason most NHS staff will now have to wait until next year.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Link?
I was referring to one of the PM's press conferences of that week. But Rochdale has already linked to NHS communications - a quick Google throws up many more, using the word "confirmed". What's your agenda in seeking to deny the obvious - that the government has, yet again, rearranged the pitch>?
Where has the govt or the JVCI said NHS staff should be vaccinated before Care Home residents?
The NHS letter says NHS staff will be “very early” in being vaccinated. They are. They are in group 2 along with the over 80s - just not “First”. They are ahead of 95%+ of the rest of the U.K.
Read this. It is very clear that the NHS had been told to plan on one assumption and that this has now changed.
Older inpatients have been moved up the list, and NHS staff pushed back to early 2021
In recent days, NHS plans had assumed NHS staff would receive this vaccine, known by the codename “courageous”. This is because it is only being sent to 50 “hub hospital” sites, due to the logistical challenges of correctly storing, handling and transferring it, most of which must be done at very low temperatures
So not “government u-turn” - but NHS assumption over-ruled by the JCVI.
Government sticks to JCVI protocol it has said all along it will stick to.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Besides, the governments entire news management strategy consists of pre-briefing (leaking) stuff to selected media ahead of any official announcement. The detailed stories on priority order that have appeared in most of the press over the last few days won’t have come from anywhere else.
It clearly was the plan to immunise the NHS hospital staff, starting next week. Not least we were notified to expect it.
Anyone administering the vaccine should be first. You want to minimise infection risk both ways when administering the thing. NHS blood taking was seemingly efficient when I had it done, they could do the vaccine and should be first in the queue
I can understand the principle but that really doesn't make sense unless we are prepared to use all of our available vaccine on front line staff and then wait a month or so for them to get the protection. My wife and I had our flu jabs yesterday. I felt perfectly safe getting the jab from the practice nurse with each of us wearing masks and minimal contact.
The priority is to reduce the death toll. That means the most vulnerable first, NHS staff (as a potential vector for infection as you point out) second, those in similar roles such as teachers third etc.
It 's really pointless arguing with those whose agenda is all about politics - facts are clearly not their first priority here.
Yep, first in the world to approve the vaccine, first in the world to roll it out, there's got to be something to moan about here somewhere.
Had the plan been what it is this morning then that would have been fine. Had the plan changed and they said "in the circumstances we're revising the plan" then OK.
What fucks me off is the hypocrisy and the lies both from the government and from their parrots happy to pivot from one position to another and brazenly insist they have done no such thing. This is the sad reality of the post-truth alt-fact Brexit world we live in. The "footballification" of reality. It doesn't matter that its a documented fact that there has been a u-turn, our team says there hasn't so we have to chant the obvious lie.
Its dependent upon how much vaccine is delivered. That is not entirely in the government's control. This isn't hard.
Yep, fortunately we have a comprehensive brexit deal so no freight will be held up in the new year
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Besides, the governments entire news management strategy consists of pre-briefing (leaking) stuff to selected media ahead of any official announcement. The detailed stories on priority order that have appeared in most of the press over the last few days won’t have come from anywhere else.
It clearly was the plan to immunise the NHS hospital staff, starting next week. Not least we were notified to expect it.
Exactly. Despite Philip and Carlotta's Comical Ali act, it is very clear that the NHS had been told to plan on one basis and is now being told something different.
Anyone administering the vaccine should be first. You want to minimise infection risk both ways when administering the thing. NHS blood taking was seemingly efficient when I had it done, they could do the vaccine and should be first in the queue
I can understand the principle but that really doesn't make sense unless we are prepared to use all of our available vaccine on front line staff and then wait a month or so for them to get the protection. My wife and I had our flu jabs yesterday. I felt perfectly safe getting the jab from the practice nurse with each of us wearing masks and minimal contact.
The priority is to reduce the death toll. That means the most vulnerable first, NHS staff (as a potential vector for infection as you point out) second, those in similar roles such as teachers third etc.
It 's really pointless arguing with those whose agenda is all about politics - facts are clearly not their first priority here.
Yep, first in the world to approve the vaccine, first in the world to roll it out, there's got to be something to moan about here somewhere.
Had the plan been what it is this morning then that would have been fine. Had the plan changed and they said "in the circumstances we're revising the plan" then OK.
What fucks me off is the hypocrisy and the lies both from the government and from their parrots happy to pivot from one position to another and brazenly insist they have done no such thing. This is the sad reality of the post-truth alt-fact Brexit world we live in. The "footballification" of reality. It doesn't matter that its a documented fact that there has been a u-turn, our team says there hasn't so we have to chant the obvious lie.
Its dependent upon how much vaccine is delivered. That is not entirely in the government's control. This isn't hard.
Yep, fortunately we have a comprehensive brexit deal so no freight will be held up in the new year
You're getting ahead of yourself. That's next week's news to celebrate. One thing at a time.
Anyone administering the vaccine should be first. You want to minimise infection risk both ways when administering the thing. NHS blood taking was seemingly efficient when I had it done, they could do the vaccine and should be first in the queue
I can understand the principle but that really doesn't make sense unless we are prepared to use all of our available vaccine on front line staff and then wait a month or so for them to get the protection. My wife and I had our flu jabs yesterday. I felt perfectly safe getting the jab from the practice nurse with each of us wearing masks and minimal contact.
The priority is to reduce the death toll. That means the most vulnerable first, NHS staff (as a potential vector for infection as you point out) second, those in similar roles such as teachers third etc.
It 's really pointless arguing with those whose agenda is all about politics - facts are clearly not their first priority here.
Yep, first in the world to approve the vaccine, first in the world to roll it out, there's got to be something to moan about here somewhere.
Had the plan been what it is this morning then that would have been fine. Had the plan changed and they said "in the circumstances we're revising the plan" then OK.
What fucks me off is the hypocrisy and the lies both from the government and from their parrots happy to pivot from one position to another and brazenly insist they have done no such thing. This is the sad reality of the post-truth alt-fact Brexit world we live in. The "footballification" of reality. It doesn't matter that its a documented fact that there has been a u-turn, our team says there hasn't so we have to chant the obvious lie.
There's a simple test for if you're right or wrong. Divergence is outlawed in the EEA and it has major monetary contributions, free movement etc
If that's what the UK agrees to then you're right. If it's not you're wrong.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Link?
I was referring to one of the PM's press conferences of that week. But Rochdale has already linked to NHS communications - a quick Google throws up many more, using the word "confirmed". What's your agenda in seeking to deny the obvious - that the government has, yet again, rearranged the pitch>?
Where has the govt or the JVCI said NHS staff should be vaccinated before Care Home residents?
The NHS letter says NHS staff will be “very early” in being vaccinated. They are. They are in group 2 along with the over 80s - just not “First”. They are ahead of 95%+ of the rest of the U.K.
Read this. It is very clear that the NHS had been told to plan on one assumption and that this has now changed.
Older inpatients have been moved up the list, and NHS staff pushed back to early 2021
In recent days, NHS plans had assumed NHS staff would receive this vaccine, known by the codename “courageous”. This is because it is only being sent to 50 “hub hospital” sites, due to the logistical challenges of correctly storing, handling and transferring it, most of which must be done at very low temperatures
So not “government u-turn” - but NHS assumption over-ruled by the JCVI.
Follow the link through to the earlier story. And, as I said, that NHS staff would be ahead of ordinary folk - including older ones in hospital - was "confirmed" by the government three weeks ago.
It's probably politics - not wanting to go into the new year with "staff" protected and "ordinary folks" not. Someone's granny in hospital getting the vaccination is better PR and feels closer for the rest of us.
O/t but the first snow of the winter has fallen in the Colchester area. Catching up with Ms Cyclefree yesterday!
We had an inch or so the night before last and it didn't melt at all yesterday but it has started to rain overnight. I suspect its snowing up country, its damn cold.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Besides, the governments entire news management strategy consists of pre-briefing (leaking) stuff to selected media ahead of any official announcement. The detailed stories on priority order that have appeared in most of the press over the last few days won’t have come from anywhere else.
It clearly was the plan to immunise the NHS hospital staff, starting next week. Not least we were notified to expect it.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Besides, the governments entire news management strategy consists of pre-briefing (leaking) stuff to selected media ahead of any official announcement. The detailed stories on priority order that have appeared in most of the press over the last few days won’t have come from anywhere else.
It clearly was the plan to immunise the NHS hospital staff, starting next week. Not least we were notified to expect it.
Exactly. Despite Philip and Carlotta's Comical Ali act, it is very clear that the NHS had been told to plan on one basis and is now being told something different.
Show us the govt document that says 1)NHS 2) Care Home residents
The links you have provided have shown that NHS staff would be “very early” - they still are, that Care Home Residents would be the top priority and that some in the NHS had assumed that they would be first - but not that the government had told them so.
It’s entirely understandable that people who’ve had a horrendous year and lost colleagues may have leapt to an optimistic (and given logistics, not unreasonable) assumption - but to claim it’s a “government u-turn” in the face of the evidence is unreasonable.
NHS staff are still in group 2 along with the over 80s and ahead of 95% of the rest of the U.K.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
No the government communications have been consistent. They have always said care homes are priority 1, NHS staff are priority 2. No list has ever varied from that.
NHS communications that NHS staff will be "early" doesn't change that. They will be, they're in the top 2 priorities but every written list has always put them second to care homes.
Which is why they have been briefing the NHS the opposite. Its not the briefing to the newspapers that's the issue, the press are picking up on the u-turn in the briefing to NHS staff.
The press are calling it a u-turn because its a u-turn. Sometimes circumstances dictate a change of plan - people understand that. But insisting nothing has changed isn't the best idea when people with eyes and a brain have the evidence in front of them proving that it has been changed.
All communications always listed NHS as second tranche. Nothing ever said they'd be before care homes.
I'm not going to waste any more time waving the paperwork sent to the NHS saying the opposite. Believe what you want - its what the public think that's the important issue. And on this one they have told the NHS staff in the front line - the heroes we all had to virtue signal our support for in abeyance of funding and PPE - they'd get it up front to protect them from all the people they will exposer themselves to.
Saying "oh no they didn't" won't cut it. The story is out there. And to distract they send that brainless tosser Williamson to make claims so laughable that even the Tory press have mocked them.
You've sent no paperwork saying NHS before carers because it does not exist.
And in your eyes carers weren't heroes we signalled our support for? You think carers get an abundance of funding and PPE over and above the NHS?
You can't win this one as it's not true. Carers are bloody well "heroes" too.
The biggest change is moving elderly inpatients up the queue, jumping ahead of both care and NHS workers. That's the reason most NHS staff will now have to wait until next year.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Besides, the governments entire news management strategy consists of pre-briefing (leaking) stuff to selected media ahead of any official announcement. The detailed stories on priority order that have appeared in most of the press over the last few days won’t have come from anywhere else.
It clearly was the plan to immunise the NHS hospital staff, starting next week. Not least we were notified to expect it.
Exactly. Despite Philip and Carlotta's Comical Ali act, it is very clear that the NHS had been told to plan on one basis and is now being told something different.
Show us the govt document that says 1)NHS 2) Care Home residents
The links you have provided have shown that NHS staff would be “very early” - they still are, that Care Home Residents would be the top priority and that some in the NHS had assumed that they would be first - but not that the government had told them so.
It’s entirely understandable that people who’ve had a horrendous year and lost colleagues may have leapt to an optimistic (and given logistics, not unreasonable) assumption - but to claim it’s a “government u-turn” in the face of the evidence is unreasonable.
NHS staff are still in group 2 along with the over 80s and ahead of 95% of the rest of the U.K.
You see above where NHS front line staff have been told they are getting it? One of three possibilities is true: 1. Foxy is at best mistaken. He has not been notified as he claims 2. The NHS is at best mistaken when it notified Foxy and all his colleagues 3. The government has changed its position and you are parroting something directly contradicted by the documentation already issued to the NHS
You've sent no paperwork saying NHS before carers because it does not exist.
And in your eyes carers weren't heroes we signalled our support for? You think carers get an abundance of funding and PPE over and above the NHS?
You can't win this one as it's not true. Carers are bloody well "heroes" too.
I'm fine with the policy (and was fine with the other apparent policy too which clearly was communicated to NHS staff like Foxy) - let's follow a plan and stick to it. But you will surely admit that Government media operation is currently leaden-footed? The story of "NHS first" has been out there for weeks - all of us here know it, so Downing Street press office must know it too. It would have been simple at any time to say "There have been reports of X, but actually Y, please plan on that basis". This isn't even a political point, just a matter of staying on top of the issue.
TBH I can`t get that worked up about who gets the vaccine first. Getting the needle is ANY bunch of people is going to help, and other cohorts will follow quickly.
I`m not entirely convinced about vaccinating care home residents first. God`s waiting room and all that. Quality of life has to come in to it somewhere. Unless it`s all about relieving pressure on the NHS in the most benefit-maximising way, which is a good argument.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
No the government communications have been consistent. They have always said care homes are priority 1, NHS staff are priority 2. No list has ever varied from that.
NHS communications that NHS staff will be "early" doesn't change that. They will be, they're in the top 2 priorities but every written list has always put them second to care homes.
Which is why they have been briefing the NHS the opposite. Its not the briefing to the newspapers that's the issue, the press are picking up on the u-turn in the briefing to NHS staff.
The press are calling it a u-turn because its a u-turn. Sometimes circumstances dictate a change of plan - people understand that. But insisting nothing has changed isn't the best idea when people with eyes and a brain have the evidence in front of them proving that it has been changed.
All communications always listed NHS as second tranche. Nothing ever said they'd be before care homes.
I'm not going to waste any more time waving the paperwork sent to the NHS saying the opposite. Believe what you want - its what the public think that's the important issue. And on this one they have told the NHS staff in the front line - the heroes we all had to virtue signal our support for in abeyance of funding and PPE - they'd get it up front to protect them from all the people they will exposer themselves to.
Saying "oh no they didn't" won't cut it. The story is out there. And to distract they send that brainless tosser Williamson to make claims so laughable that even the Tory press have mocked them.
You've sent no paperwork saying NHS before carers because it does not exist.
And in your eyes carers weren't heroes we signalled our support for? You think carers get an abundance of funding and PPE over and above the NHS?
You can't win this one as it's not true. Carers are bloody well "heroes" too.
The biggest change is moving elderly inpatients up the queue, jumping ahead of both care and NHS workers. That's the reason most NHS staff will now have to wait until next year.
Now you're just being silly. Advice that is barely two days old, which doesn't even deny the change in priority, offered as evidence for "never". Give it up, man.
Good morning everybody. I hope they do manage to reach a deal. It took us 40 years to get so entwined, that can't all be unpicked overnight. But the whole thing has been handled so badly from the start it won't surprise me now if we do crash out.
TBH I can`t get that worked up about who gets the vaccine first. Getting the needle is ANY bunch of people is going to help, and other cohorts will follow quickly.
I`m not entirely convinced about vaccinating care home residents first. God`s waiting room and all that. Quality of life has to come in to it somewhere. Unless it`s all about relieving pressure on the NHS in the most benefit-maximising way, which is a good argument.
That's all it has been about, these past nine months.
Again, the opinions of PB Parrots only matter on here. Out there in the real world the story is already running. I don't care that it makes the government look stupid, that's baked in to people's expectations. What will really become a wider problem is the lack of faith as people start jostling for position to get into higher tranches.
You've sent no paperwork saying NHS before carers because it does not exist.
And in your eyes carers weren't heroes we signalled our support for? You think carers get an abundance of funding and PPE over and above the NHS?
You can't win this one as it's not true. Carers are bloody well "heroes" too.
I'm fine with the policy (and was fine with the other apparent policy too which clearly was communicated to NHS staff like Foxy) - let's follow a plan and stick to it. But you will surely admit that Government media operation is currently leaden-footed? The story of "NHS first" has been out there for weeks - all of us here know it, so Downing Street press office must know it too. It would have been simple at any time to say "There have been reports of X, but actually Y, please plan on that basis". This isn't even a political point, just a matter of staying on top of the issue.
As you say, not a political point. Especially when X has been the documented plan sent to NHS managers and staff.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
No the government communications have been consistent. They have always said care homes are priority 1, NHS staff are priority 2. No list has ever varied from that.
NHS communications that NHS staff will be "early" doesn't change that. They will be, they're in the top 2 priorities but every written list has always put them second to care homes.
Which is why they have been briefing the NHS the opposite. Its not the briefing to the newspapers that's the issue, the press are picking up on the u-turn in the briefing to NHS staff.
The press are calling it a u-turn because its a u-turn. Sometimes circumstances dictate a change of plan - people understand that. But insisting nothing has changed isn't the best idea when people with eyes and a brain have the evidence in front of them proving that it has been changed.
All communications always listed NHS as second tranche. Nothing ever said they'd be before care homes.
I'm not going to waste any more time waving the paperwork sent to the NHS saying the opposite. Believe what you want - its what the public think that's the important issue. And on this one they have told the NHS staff in the front line - the heroes we all had to virtue signal our support for in abeyance of funding and PPE - they'd get it up front to protect them from all the people they will exposer themselves to.
Saying "oh no they didn't" won't cut it. The story is out there. And to distract they send that brainless tosser Williamson to make claims so laughable that even the Tory press have mocked them.
You've sent no paperwork saying NHS before carers because it does not exist.
And in your eyes carers weren't heroes we signalled our support for? You think carers get an abundance of funding and PPE over and above the NHS?
You can't win this one as it's not true. Carers are bloody well "heroes" too.
The biggest change is moving elderly inpatients up the queue, jumping ahead of both care and NHS workers. That's the reason most NHS staff will now have to wait until next year.
I really don't understand how those elderly inpatients and outpatients are to get their second dose on time. Are we supposed to call them all back to hospital?
Good morning everybody. I hope they do manage to reach a deal. It took us 40 years to get so entwined, that can't all be unpicked overnight. But the whole thing has been handled so badly from the start it won't surprise me now if we do crash out.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
No the government communications have been consistent. They have always said care homes are priority 1, NHS staff are priority 2. No list has ever varied from that.
NHS communications that NHS staff will be "early" doesn't change that. They will be, they're in the top 2 priorities but every written list has always put them second to care homes.
Which is why they have been briefing the NHS the opposite. Its not the briefing to the newspapers that's the issue, the press are picking up on the u-turn in the briefing to NHS staff.
The press are calling it a u-turn because its a u-turn. Sometimes circumstances dictate a change of plan - people understand that. But insisting nothing has changed isn't the best idea when people with eyes and a brain have the evidence in front of them proving that it has been changed.
All communications always listed NHS as second tranche. Nothing ever said they'd be before care homes.
I'm not going to waste any more time waving the paperwork sent to the NHS saying the opposite. Believe what you want - its what the public think that's the important issue. And on this one they have told the NHS staff in the front line - the heroes we all had to virtue signal our support for in abeyance of funding and PPE - they'd get it up front to protect them from all the people they will exposer themselves to.
Saying "oh no they didn't" won't cut it. The story is out there. And to distract they send that brainless tosser Williamson to make claims so laughable that even the Tory press have mocked them.
You've sent no paperwork saying NHS before carers because it does not exist.
And in your eyes carers weren't heroes we signalled our support for? You think carers get an abundance of funding and PPE over and above the NHS?
You can't win this one as it's not true. Carers are bloody well "heroes" too.
The biggest change is moving elderly inpatients up the queue, jumping ahead of both care and NHS workers. That's the reason most NHS staff will now have to wait until next year.
Now you're just being silly. Advice that is barely two days old, which doesn't even deny the change in priority, offered as evidence for "never". Give it up, man.
Now you're just being silly. That was the most recent publication, but this was September's that it replaced.
Fauci etc. Wibble wibble wibble. Er no. He just withdrew it and apologised.
NHS Staff will no longer etc wibble wibble wibble. Sounds more like a gibberloon or two from the Guardian desperate to maintain fear because they need to have a 7295th go at the Govt, whilst avoiding doing any real journalism.
Investment in Roads means more emissions wibble wibble wibble. See zero emissions cars
The Sky's Falling in. See Henny Penny
Next...
Agree with all four. On the roads thing, I do get annoyed when people trot out the "roads generate traffic; it's called 'induced traffic', you know," thing.
I researched the phenomenon of induced traffic in considerable depth a couple of years ago (from the 1994 SACTRA report onwards), because I wanted to decide which side to take on some proposed local roads, and concluded that the "roads generate traffic" soundbite is oversimplistic and misleading. Because "lack of roads also generates traffic" is also equally true, and very often overrides the "roads generate traffic" element.
In essence, there are four sources of induced traffic: - People changing the time of their journey. When a bypass or improved roads are made available to reduce congestion, people who avoided the peak times to avoid the congestion can now drive at peak times, causing a temporal shift. Okay, this happens, but overall, it usually ends up with less congestion than originally (as if the congestion were to reach the same point, they'd switch back to going absurdly early or late)
- People changing the route of their journey. For example, instead of going through villages, they go via a new bypass. That's literally the point of it, though.
- People changing the mode of their journey. Such as people who did go via train or plane driving instead. The solution to this is to improve the alternate mode, as if they still prefer the congested roads, the alternate mode must be even worse.
- People making journeys that otherwise they would not have done. This is also arguably the entire point of having roads in the first place, and they'll only have incentive to do this if the overall level of congestion is still reduced.
Other than that, there is still increased demand for traffic - such as from new homes and new businesses. That's going to be there regardless of whether new roads are provided. If they're not, it means that existing roads will get further overloaded, people will have to travel at absurd times of the day, carry out rat runs, or simply not make needed journeys at all (as we see when the roads go down and seize up).
Ahem. Sorry. Touchy subject.
Your first two points are good. The second two less so, in that they do indeed result in an increase in traffic. The main problem with this is that it fails to take into account the negative externalities of increased traffic, such as increased pollution, reduced viability of public transport networks (impacting people with don't or can't drive) and reduced incentives to develop alternatives to driving, such as remote working. And we end up with town centres covered in car parks.
Both excellent points; however those two result in an increase in travel rather than in traffic density. The counterfactual of no road building also incurs externalities - reducing the viability of the road network by allowing the traffic level to increase (as more housing and businesses are built) without creating alternatives simply increases misery and emissions as more cars still take to the road (albeit arguably fewer than if the newer roads were built) and they sit there for longer, emitting longer.
Improving alternate modes needs to be done whether or not more roads are built; that shouldn't be either/or (or, as happens so often, neither/nor).
We can also reduce the impact of externalities by encouraging non-emitting vehicles and by making alternatives such as remote working more attractive by other means.
"let's follow a plan and stick to it" Not a clever policy when facts on the ground are changing (e.g. the Pfizer/BioNTech revision of logistics).
Absolutely. Advanced planning for possible scenarios is critical. Those plans have to be adapted and revised to what actually transpires. Doing so is rational. What isn't rational is lying about having done so. Its not the change of plan that annoys me. Its the lies that surround it.
I hate to think how low down the priority list @Dura_Ace will be...
I won't be rushing to get it. The approval has obviously been fast tracked for political and culture war reasons. It's probably been genetically engineered to make you wear golf club blazers and drive a Jag XF......
Anyone administering the vaccine should be first. You want to minimise infection risk both ways when administering the thing. NHS blood taking was seemingly efficient when I had it done, they could do the vaccine and should be first in the queue
I can understand the principle but that really doesn't make sense unless we are prepared to use all of our available vaccine on front line staff and then wait a month or so for them to get the protection. My wife and I had our flu jabs yesterday. I felt perfectly safe getting the jab from the practice nurse with each of us wearing masks and minimal contact.
The priority is to reduce the death toll. That means the most vulnerable first, NHS staff (as a potential vector for infection as you point out) second, those in similar roles such as teachers third etc.
It 's really pointless arguing with those whose agenda is all about politics - facts are clearly not their first priority here.
If you are talking abbot a government run by a pathological liar its quite reasonable to doubt what they say.
I hate to think how low down the priority list @Dura_Ace will be...
I won't be rushing to get it. The approval has obviously been fast tracked for political and culture war reasons. It's probably been genetically engineered to make you wear golf club blazers and drive a Jag XF......
Totally O/T, I have just had a drive in a Mercedes EQC400 (All Electric). The acceleration it has is simply astounding.
Limited to 112mph so it can fuck right off.
However, the EV revolution is certainly in full swing and I would not be buying any IC vehicle unless it was collectable or had otherwise rock solid residuals. The market is going to collapse over the next five years.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Besides, the governments entire news management strategy consists of pre-briefing (leaking) stuff to selected media ahead of any official announcement. The detailed stories on priority order that have appeared in most of the press over the last few days won’t have come from anywhere else.
It clearly was the plan to immunise the NHS hospital staff, starting next week. Not least we were notified to expect it.
Exactly. Despite Philip and Carlotta's Comical Ali act, it is very clear that the NHS had been told to plan on one basis and is now being told something different.
Incidentally, I was rather surprised about how much vaccine scepticism there was in my non medical colleagues, including nursing staff. Quite a few wanted to hang back to see how the side effects were post release.
Totally O/T, I have just had a drive in a Mercedes EQC400 (All Electric). The acceleration it has is simply astounding.
Limited to 112mph so it can fuck right off.
However, the EV revolution is certainly in full swing and I would not be buying any IC vehicle unless it was collectable or had otherwise rock solid residuals. The market is going to collapse over the next five years.
Why is the market is going to collapse over the next five years?
Totally O/T, I have just had a drive in a Mercedes EQC400 (All Electric). The acceleration it has is simply astounding.
Limited to 112mph so it can fuck right off.
However, the EV revolution is certainly in full swing and I would not be buying any IC vehicle unless it was collectable or had otherwise rock solid residuals. The market is going to collapse over the next five years.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Besides, the governments entire news management strategy consists of pre-briefing (leaking) stuff to selected media ahead of any official announcement. The detailed stories on priority order that have appeared in most of the press over the last few days won’t have come from anywhere else.
It clearly was the plan to immunise the NHS hospital staff, starting next week. Not least we were notified to expect it.
Exactly. Despite Philip and Carlotta's Comical Ali act, it is very clear that the NHS had been told to plan on one basis and is now being told something different.
Incidentally, I was rather surprised about how much vaccine scepticism there was in my non medical colleagues, including nursing staff. Quite a few wanted to hang back to see how the site effects were post release.
I`m hearing that too. Not anti-vaxxers, but vaccine-cautious.
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
No the government communications have been consistent. They have always said care homes are priority 1, NHS staff are priority 2. No list has ever varied from that.
NHS communications that NHS staff will be "early" doesn't change that. They will be, they're in the top 2 priorities but every written list has always put them second to care homes.
Which is why they have been briefing the NHS the opposite. Its not the briefing to the newspapers that's the issue, the press are picking up on the u-turn in the briefing to NHS staff.
The press are calling it a u-turn because its a u-turn. Sometimes circumstances dictate a change of plan - people understand that. But insisting nothing has changed isn't the best idea when people with eyes and a brain have the evidence in front of them proving that it has been changed.
All communications always listed NHS as second tranche. Nothing ever said they'd be before care homes.
I'm not going to waste any more time waving the paperwork sent to the NHS saying the opposite. Believe what you want - its what the public think that's the important issue. And on this one they have told the NHS staff in the front line - the heroes we all had to virtue signal our support for in abeyance of funding and PPE - they'd get it up front to protect them from all the people they will exposer themselves to.
Saying "oh no they didn't" won't cut it. The story is out there. And to distract they send that brainless tosser Williamson to make claims so laughable that even the Tory press have mocked them.
You've sent no paperwork saying NHS before carers because it does not exist.
And in your eyes carers weren't heroes we signalled our support for? You think carers get an abundance of funding and PPE over and above the NHS?
You can't win this one as it's not true. Carers are bloody well "heroes" too.
The biggest change is moving elderly inpatients up the queue, jumping ahead of both care and NHS workers. That's the reason most NHS staff will now have to wait until next year.
I really don't understand how those elderly inpatients and outpatients are to get their second dose on time. Are we supposed to call them all back to hospital?
On the island, we've been told the virus will be dispensed from Portsmouth. Quite how all the elderly inpatients and care home residents are to get there and back isn't clear, for the first dose let alone for a second time.
For me they aren't yet in a position to make a decision - it depends on the deal. If the deal sticks Nissan-killing tariffs and delays on then I can't see why Labour MPs vote for it - voters won't thank them for it when the ceiling starts falling in on them. If on the other hand its continuity EEA/CU then vote for it.
Time has moved on since both the referendum and the last election. With the deal we will finally be able to face down the consequences and I'd expect them to vote accordingly.
Whatever Starmer decides I expect a hardcore of Corbynite loons to disobey the whip.
I hate to think how low down the priority list @Dura_Ace will be...
I won't be rushing to get it. The approval has obviously been fast tracked for political and culture war reasons. It's probably been genetically engineered to make you wear golf club blazers and drive a Jag XF......
Totally O/T, I have just had a drive in a Mercedes EQC400 (All Electric). The acceleration it has is simply astounding.
Limited to 112mph so it can fuck right off.
However, the EV revolution is certainly in full swing and I would not be buying any IC vehicle unless it was collectable or had otherwise rock solid residuals. The market is going to collapse over the next five years.
Why is the market is going to collapse over the next five years?
'Cos everyone will be buying electric, and it will become increasingly hard to run ICE vehicles.
Sounds like nonsense to me. Who else would police it but an independent regulator? Was Boris proposing Donald Trump or something?
Surely an independent regulator was a UK demand, rather than the ECJ. Have I got this wrong?
Yeah, I had thought the sticking point was that the EU wanted the ECJ to adjudicate, and the UK wanted an independent body.
Now we want the ECJ to adjudicate, so we can have something to complain about.
Who in their senses would want the ECJ to adjudicate on anything? They must be the most corrupt and supine court in the developed world. They have no integrity, no sense, make daft laws up as they go along at the behest of the Advocate General and quite openly always side with the highest bidder.
The only really good argument for Brexit is if it takes us away from their malign influence.
Exactly.
It's really important we have someone to blame, to have an enemy who we can hate and castigate and blame.
If we have some kind of independent adjudicator, that's not going to work. But if it's the ECJ, then we can simultaneously be outside the EU, and yet still complain about the EU.
It's a brilliant ploy by Johnson.
The ECJ would always do what the Commission told them to. Because that’s what they’ve always done. So they cannot be independent.
If Johnson even proposes that, surely he would be instantly scalped by the Tory right.
If that were the case, why is it that the ECJ consistently overturns Commission decisions?
It's hard to generalise but I would say it is mainly because the Commission is subject to pressure/bullying/corruption by Member States and other interest groups and compromises, grants exceptions etc whilst the Court looks to uphold the ideal of European unity striking down the imperfections that the real world has introduced.
The CJE and its Attorney Generals really are the keepers of the sacred flame forever pushing forward.
Yep, I think that's right. In the absence of specific legislation stating otherwise, the CJEU will always go with more Europe. Often that means not doing what the Commission wants. It is certainly not corrupt, as had been claimed.
Not corrupt. Incompetent, irrational, not like any other law court I have ever come across in that there is no real intent to interpret the law but instead to expand and extend it, but not corrupt. I will be unhappy if they are the arbiters on any deal. I would rather have a coin, its at least got 2 sides.
Can you give any examples of judgments you would characterise that way?
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Besides, the governments entire news management strategy consists of pre-briefing (leaking) stuff to selected media ahead of any official announcement. The detailed stories on priority order that have appeared in most of the press over the last few days won’t have come from anywhere else.
It clearly was the plan to immunise the NHS hospital staff, starting next week. Not least we were notified to expect it.
Exactly. Despite Philip and Carlotta's Comical Ali act, it is very clear that the NHS had been told to plan on one basis and is now being told something different.
Incidentally, I was rather surprised about how much vaccine scepticism there was in my non medical colleagues, including nursing staff. Quite a few wanted to hang back to see how the side effects were post release.
I've already heard that second hand from NHS staff both here and, via a friend, in London; I mentioned it the other day. Understandable, I guess, that being first is seen as something of a risk
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
It was confirmed during the second week of November.
Besides, the governments entire news management strategy consists of pre-briefing (leaking) stuff to selected media ahead of any official announcement. The detailed stories on priority order that have appeared in most of the press over the last few days won’t have come from anywhere else.
It clearly was the plan to immunise the NHS hospital staff, starting next week. Not least we were notified to expect it.
Exactly. Despite Philip and Carlotta's Comical Ali act, it is very clear that the NHS had been told to plan on one basis and is now being told something different.
Incidentally, I was rather surprised about how much vaccine scepticism there was in my non medical colleagues, including nursing staff. Quite a few wanted to hang back to see how the site effects were post release.
I`m hearing that too. Not anti-vaxxers, but vaccine-cautious.
am i right in thinking mRNA has not been used in a vaccine before?
NHS staff will no longer get the coronavirus vaccine first after a drastic rethink about who should be given priority, it emerged last night.
The new immunisation strategy is likely to disappoint and worry thousands of frontline staff – and comes amid urgent warnings from NHS chiefs that hospitals could be “overwhelmed” in January by a third wave of Covid-19 caused by mingling over Christmas.
Frontline personnel were due to have the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when the NHS starts its rollout, which is expected to be next Tuesday
However, hospitals will instead begin by immunising care home staff, and hospital inpatients and outpatients aged over 80. The new UK-wide guidance on priority groups was issued by the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) amid uncertainty over when the rest of the 5m-strong initial batch of doses that ministers ordered will reach the UK.
And so our government flip-flopping continues ....
No. Just sticking to the original plan. Where has the govt. said frontline NHS staff would get vaccinated first? They haven’t. There has been media speculation that because of the difficulties in distribution of the Pfizer vaccine to Care Homes that would happen - but that’s all it’s been.
Just Google it. The communications to NHS Staff that front line staff will get early jabs has been communicated out literally for months. One example: https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/covid19/covid19vaccine/
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
No the government communications have been consistent. They have always said care homes are priority 1, NHS staff are priority 2. No list has ever varied from that.
NHS communications that NHS staff will be "early" doesn't change that. They will be, they're in the top 2 priorities but every written list has always put them second to care homes.
Which is why they have been briefing the NHS the opposite. Its not the briefing to the newspapers that's the issue, the press are picking up on the u-turn in the briefing to NHS staff.
The press are calling it a u-turn because its a u-turn. Sometimes circumstances dictate a change of plan - people understand that. But insisting nothing has changed isn't the best idea when people with eyes and a brain have the evidence in front of them proving that it has been changed.
All communications always listed NHS as second tranche. Nothing ever said they'd be before care homes.
I'm not going to waste any more time waving the paperwork sent to the NHS saying the opposite. Believe what you want - its what the public think that's the important issue. And on this one they have told the NHS staff in the front line - the heroes we all had to virtue signal our support for in abeyance of funding and PPE - they'd get it up front to protect them from all the people they will exposer themselves to.
Saying "oh no they didn't" won't cut it. The story is out there. And to distract they send that brainless tosser Williamson to make claims so laughable that even the Tory press have mocked them.
You've sent no paperwork saying NHS before carers because it does not exist.
And in your eyes carers weren't heroes we signalled our support for? You think carers get an abundance of funding and PPE over and above the NHS?
You can't win this one as it's not true. Carers are bloody well "heroes" too.
The biggest change is moving elderly inpatients up the queue, jumping ahead of both care and NHS workers. That's the reason most NHS staff will now have to wait until next year.
Now you're just being silly. Advice that is barely two days old, which doesn't even deny the change in priority, offered as evidence for "never". Give it up, man.
Now you're just being silly. That was the most recent publication, but this was September's that it replaced.
You are getting worse than HY. The entire government plan, including a detailed timetable, was leaked in November, and widely reported. This followed on from confirmation that the NHS and care workers would be first. The leaked plan has NHS staff down for early December and older inpatients down for later in the month. The now reduced number of doses expected pre-Xmas has clearly driven a shuffling of the order.
Totally O/T, I have just had a drive in a Mercedes EQC400 (All Electric). The acceleration it has is simply astounding.
Limited to 112mph so it can fuck right off.
However, the EV revolution is certainly in full swing and I would not be buying any IC vehicle unless it was collectable or had otherwise rock solid residuals. The market is going to collapse over the next five years.
My guess is that speed limiters will quickly become the norm - because you won't get insurance without one. And that limit will come down over time.
Comments
Fauci etc. Wibble wibble wibble.
Er no. He just withdrew it and apologised.
NHS Staff will no longer etc wibble wibble wibble.
Sounds more like a gibberloon or two from the Guardian desperate to maintain fear because they need to have a 7295th go at the Govt, whilst avoiding doing any real journalism.
Investment in Roads means more emissions wibble wibble wibble.
See zero emissions cars
The Sky's Falling in.
See Henny Penny
Next...
However, going off what Prof. JVT said, vaccinating care home staff isn't going to be easy. They'll have to attend hospitals, not be 'done' at their place of work.
Besides, the governments entire news management strategy consists of pre-briefing (leaking) stuff to selected media ahead of any official announcement. The detailed stories on priority order that have appeared in most of the press over the last few days won’t have come from anywhere else.
Could add a few senators to Biden's tally if Mo Brooks forces a senate vote on the electoral count.
Remember when the Fireplace Salesman said the RAF would have squadrons of swarming autonomous drones in service by the end of 2020? They've got three weeks.
He thought the key phrase there was "EU", hence Brexit.
Now it's much clearer that the key phrase is "constraining his actions", which is harder to fix.
The previous guidance on 20th November was clear about NHS Staff in the front line being a very early priority: https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2020/11/covid-19-vacc-deployment-strategy-and-operational-readiness-letter.pdf
Lets be honest about this. The government have demonstrated time and time again that they are inept and incompetent and issue conflicting and contradictory briefings on the same day. They've fucked up. Again. Anyone with a brain knows that before you bring in the potentially infected for a vaccination its a good idea to vaccinate the people administering the vaccine. Which is why its been the plan for months.
NHS communications that NHS staff will be "early" doesn't change that. They will be, they're in the top 2 priorities but every written list has always put them second to care homes.
On the roads thing, I do get annoyed when people trot out the "roads generate traffic; it's called 'induced traffic', you know," thing.
I researched the phenomenon of induced traffic in considerable depth a couple of years ago (from the 1994 SACTRA report onwards), because I wanted to decide which side to take on some proposed local roads, and concluded that the "roads generate traffic" soundbite is oversimplistic and misleading. Because "lack of roads also generates traffic" is also equally true, and very often overrides the "roads generate traffic" element.
In essence, there are four sources of induced traffic:
- People changing the time of their journey. When a bypass or improved roads are made available to reduce congestion, people who avoided the peak times to avoid the congestion can now drive at peak times, causing a temporal shift. Okay, this happens, but overall, it usually ends up with less congestion than originally (as if the congestion were to reach the same point, they'd switch back to going absurdly early or late)
- People changing the route of their journey. For example, instead of going through villages, they go via a new bypass. That's literally the point of it, though.
- People changing the mode of their journey. Such as people who did go via train or plane driving instead. The solution to this is to improve the alternate mode, as if they still prefer the congested roads, the alternate mode must be even worse.
- People making journeys that otherwise they would not have done. This is also arguably the entire point of having roads in the first place, and they'll only have incentive to do this if the overall level of congestion is still reduced.
Other than that, there is still increased demand for traffic - such as from new homes and new businesses. That's going to be there regardless of whether new roads are provided. If they're not, it means that existing roads will get further overloaded, people will have to travel at absurd times of the day, carry out rat runs, or simply not make needed journeys at all (as we see when the roads go down and seize up).
Ahem. Sorry. Touchy subject.
NHS blood taking was seemingly efficient when I had it done, they could do the vaccine and should be first in the queue
Vaccinating population cohorts at highest risk guided by the Joint Committee for Vaccinations and Immunisation (JCVI) interim guidance.
Which is what the government is doing.
Or do you think the JCVI is wrong?
The press are calling it a u-turn because its a u-turn. Sometimes circumstances dictate a change of plan - people understand that. But insisting nothing has changed isn't the best idea when people with eyes and a brain have the evidence in front of them proving that it has been changed.
https://twitter.com/dakekang/status/1334525760850288642?s=20
The CJE and its Attorney Generals really are the keepers of the sacred flame forever pushing forward.
Saying "oh no they didn't" won't cut it. The story is out there. And to distract they send that brainless tosser Williamson to make claims so laughable that even the Tory press have mocked them.
On current trends (-3% per year) we are on target for a reduction of 60%, and have been for the last 5-6 years.
They seem to be addressing older homes and personal transport.
Not long I think before hybrid cars are correctly excluded from electric car tax breaks.
Green Party will need to find a way to remain vaguely relevant.
So when they send NHS staff into pox-infested care homes to administer the vaccine of course they shouldn't have the vaccine first - how else are they supposed to spread Covid far and wide?
The priority is to reduce the death toll. That means the most vulnerable first, NHS staff (as a potential vector for infection as you point out) second, those in similar roles such as teachers third etc.
The NHS letter says NHS staff will be “very early” in being vaccinated. They are. They are in group 2 along with the over 80s - just not “First”. They are ahead of 95%+ of the rest of the U.K.
A cut-and-paste corporate response which addresses none of the questions asked.
Key section:
"This decision has been taken in-line with our terms and conditions, which for ease of use, have been copied below:
In the event of any uncertainty about any result or potential result, Betfair reserves the right to suspend settlement of any market for an unlimited period until the uncertainty can be resolved to the reasonable satisfaction of Betfair."
Applying this catch-all small print means that we cannot rely on BF`s market specific rules when we place a bet.
Edit: over £19M this morning available about Biden at 1.03.
https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/exclusive-new-guidance-means-few-nhs-staff-now-likely-to-get-covid-vaccine-before-xmas/7029095.article
Older inpatients have been moved up the list, and NHS staff pushed back to early 2021
https://twitter.com/ITVJoel/status/1334766773598629889?s=20
What fucks me off is the hypocrisy and the lies both from the government and from their parrots happy to pivot from one position to another and brazenly insist they have done no such thing. This is the sad reality of the post-truth alt-fact Brexit world we live in. The "footballification" of reality. It doesn't matter that its a documented fact that there has been a u-turn, our team says there hasn't so we have to chant the obvious lie.
And in your eyes carers weren't heroes we signalled our support for? You think carers get an abundance of funding and PPE over and above the NHS?
You can't win this one as it's not true. Carers are bloody well "heroes" too.
"The government plan to spread the pox as widely as possible at Christmas, even cancelling and postponing roadworks and rail projects to let more people travel home to kill Granny.
So when they send NHS staff into pox-infested care homes to administer the vaccine of course they shouldn't have the vaccine first - how else are they supposed to spread Covid far and wide? "
Yesirree!
So not “government u-turn” - but NHS assumption over-ruled by the JCVI.
"U turn" !!!
If that's what the UK agrees to then you're right. If it's not you're wrong.
It's probably politics - not wanting to go into the new year with "staff" protected and "ordinary folks" not. Someone's granny in hospital getting the vaccination is better PR and feels closer for the rest of us.
1)NHS
2) Care Home residents
The links you have provided have shown that NHS staff would be “very early” - they still are, that Care Home Residents would be the top priority and that some in the NHS had assumed that they would be first - but not that the government had told them so.
It’s entirely understandable that people who’ve had a horrendous year and lost colleagues may have leapt to an optimistic (and given logistics, not unreasonable) assumption - but to claim it’s a “government u-turn” in the face of the evidence is unreasonable.
NHS staff are still in group 2 along with the over 80s and ahead of 95% of the rest of the U.K.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-2-december-2020/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-2-december-2020
1. Foxy is at best mistaken. He has not been notified as he claims
2. The NHS is at best mistaken when it notified Foxy and all his colleagues
3. The government has changed its position and you are parroting something directly contradicted by the documentation already issued to the NHS
https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1334611307534950406
I`m not entirely convinced about vaccinating care home residents first. God`s waiting room and all that. Quality of life has to come in to it somewhere. Unless it`s all about relieving pressure on the NHS in the most benefit-maximising way, which is a good argument.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/27/hospitals-england-told-prepare-early-december-covid-vaccine-rollout-nhs
Not a clever policy when facts on the ground are changing (e.g. the Pfizer/BioNTech revision of logistics).
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-25-september-2020/jcvi-updated-interim-advice-on-priority-groups-for-covid-19-vaccination
🙄
The counterfactual of no road building also incurs externalities - reducing the viability of the road network by allowing the traffic level to increase (as more housing and businesses are built) without creating alternatives simply increases misery and emissions as more cars still take to the road (albeit arguably fewer than if the newer roads were built) and they sit there for longer, emitting longer.
Improving alternate modes needs to be done whether or not more roads are built; that shouldn't be either/or (or, as happens so often, neither/nor).
We can also reduce the impact of externalities by encouraging non-emitting vehicles and by making alternatives such as remote working more attractive by other means.
Biden: 'Several' Republican senators have privately acknowledged he won
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/03/biden-senate-republicans-electoral-win-442790
The government's press conference and website trumps the Grauniad getting it backwards.
However, the EV revolution is certainly in full swing and I would not be buying any IC vehicle unless it was collectable or had otherwise rock solid residuals. The market is going to collapse over the next five years.
https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1334779590460510213
For me they aren't yet in a position to make a decision - it depends on the deal. If the deal sticks Nissan-killing tariffs and delays on then I can't see why Labour MPs vote for it - voters won't thank them for it when the ceiling starts falling in on them. If on the other hand its continuity EEA/CU then vote for it.
Time has moved on since both the referendum and the last election. With the deal we will finally be able to face down the consequences and I'd expect them to vote accordingly.
Whatever Starmer decides I expect a hardcore of Corbynite loons to disobey the whip.
Any takers?
https://twitter.com/326Pols/status/1334560531622064128