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Covid Whack-A-Mole – politicalbetting.com

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Andy_JS said:

    "To really get the economy moving, give private sector Londoners priority for the vaccine

    Anyone who commutes to work by tube should arguably take preference over retired 70 year-olds living in suburbs who rarely mix in crowds
    Ross Clark" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/02/really-get-economy-moving-give-private-sector-londoners-priority/

    The oldies (and NHS etc) will get the Pfizer and the rest of us the AZ, is surely where we are headed?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    I think if we want to boost the vaccine campaign, all those celebs that broke lockdown should be forced to have it live on tv....

    Do you think watching Cummings having a shot on TV would make squeamish feel safer?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Just me, or is it not the best time to be looking to rip off air passengers?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55156512

    This has actually really pissed me off. When I do use EasyShite, I only take a smallish backpack (no not just massshooovie wheel on case thingie), which is a tad too big to fit under the seat without worrying about buggering my laptop.
    Flying with Easyjet/Ryanair/British Airways is like sex with your ex, at the start you think it'll be fun, but 10 minutes in and you wonder why you even bothered and full of regret for ages.
    The trick is to only ever fly first class. ;)
    You fly commercial?
    Fly? You mean haven't got your new teleporter kept secret for the elite?
    Call me old-fashioned, but personally I don't go anywhere unless carried in a solid gold sedan chair upon the backs of the poor. It takes a bit longer, but one has certain standards to maintain.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    UK local R

    As an experiment, this is a link to the actual image. Click on it to see full size.

    image

    It is a good idea but it takes you away from the main PB page.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.
  • I would like to rescind my acknowledgement of the early Pfizer vaccine approval as a potential benefit of Brexit, as I now see that this is fake news. Kicking myself for the elementary mistake of believing anything the government says.

    Standard EU MO isn't it? Get called on something, say 'No no no, every member state has the right!' - yet strangely enough none have used it. It will be nice (and is already nice) to be unequivocally outside the purview of such laws/regulations/recommendations/helpful hints, so that it's absolutely clear who is responsible for fuck ups as and when they occur.
    Yet both No 10 and the MHRA have contradicted Hancock on this so I am surprised to see you still buying it. The EU's slightly more thorough vetting procedure doesn't look that stupid considering public scepticism about vaccines. Mind you, I won't be getting the vaccine for months, if at all, so I'm not especially fussed either way. By the time I get it I imagine any issues will have been identified.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720

    geoffw said:

    IanB2 said:

    Across the entire EU and UK the fishing industry employed only 180,000 people in 2017.

    Quite normal - Parkinson's bike shed law.

    If it was just about economics, it would indeed be a trivial item on the agenda. A rounding error.

    It isn't though, is it? It is a principle of sovereignty.


    The state support stuff is potentially much bigger economically but doesn't have quite the same implications (at least in my mind).
    Well yes, that's the Parkinson's law point.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    TBF everyone who is in a shop with someone else and a smartphone now has a potential personal photographer.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Roger said:

    I think if we want to boost the vaccine campaign, all those celebs that broke lockdown should be forced to have it live on tv....

    Do you think watching Cummings having a shot on TV would make squeamish feel safer?
    I think many people would be very happy to see him shot live on TV, but it would probably break broadcasting rules.

    Oh, not that sort of shot?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136
    edited December 2020
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Either way then Boris would get his EU Deal through, he would need Labour to oppose as well as all the other opposition parties and about 50 Tory No Deal hardliners for it to fail to pass
    Makes a huge difference. It would be the biggest mistake of Starmer's political career to vote with Johnson on a deal.

    It wouldn't under FPTP, to become PM Starmer needs to win back seats Corbyn lost to the Tories in the Red Wall in 2019 (after Corbyn opposed May and Boris' Brexit Deals).

    No point Labour winning 70%+ of the vote in Safe Labour seats in diehard Remain inner city London, Manchester, Liverpool, Cardiff, Oxford and Brighton etc if they lose lots of leave voting marginal seats again in the Midlands and North and Wales to the Tories.

    Starmer is sensibly positioning himself now between diehard Remain and No Deal hardliners on both the opposition and Tory backbenches, knowing GE19 defeated the former but the latter are still a headache for Boris within Tory ranks
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Pro_Rata said:

    geoffw said:

    In the early 60s (I think), Elvis was vaccinated with the Salk polio vaccine on live tv. Apparently that was a major boost to the vaccination campaign.

    Let's get the right people for the job at each phase: Attenborough and HMQ.
    Yup. Elvis did it for the yoof.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    Bloody Turks, they come over here, they invent all our vaccines, they take over No. 10...
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    For the assistance of Andrew Neil, and possibly David Paton, Swedish deaths per date since mid October as they have changed over the past week or so.


  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,681
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    IanB2 said:

    Across the entire EU and UK the fishing industry employed only 180,000 people in 2017.

    Quite normal - Parkinson's bike shed law.

    If it was just about economics, it would indeed be a trivial item on the agenda. A rounding error.

    It isn't though, is it? It is a principle of sovereignty.


    The state support stuff is potentially much bigger economically but doesn't have quite the same implications (at least in my mind).
    Well yes, that's the Parkinson's law point.

    I thought Parkinson's point was that people would spend ages discussing trivial things that they understood but not important things that they didn't?

    In this case the argument isn't about something trivial, even if it won't make much difference economically.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Other than using physical force or drugs, how does one "entrap" someone into being stark bollock naked at a gangbang?
    Hasn't he admitted it, apologised and resigned anyway?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,755
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    Thought 1: I hope this is for Rishi himself, otherwise he's just spoilt the surprise for (at least one of) his kids.
    Thought 2: His kids will also now know that it's Rishi, not Santa, who buys the presents
    Thought 3: Unless 'kids' refers to everyone's kids and Rishi is in fact Santa?
  • dixiedean said:

    Other than using physical force or drugs, how does one "entrap" someone into being stark bollock naked at a gangbang?
    Hasn't he admitted it, apologised and resigned anyway?
    Bait and switch.

    You tell him the gang bang is heterosexual in nature then bam you bring out the dudes.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    IanB2 said:

    Across the entire EU and UK the fishing industry employed only 180,000 people in 2017.

    Quite normal - Parkinson's bike shed law.

    If it was just about economics, it would indeed be a trivial item on the agenda. A rounding error.

    It isn't though, is it? It is a principle of sovereignty.


    The state support stuff is potentially much bigger economically but doesn't have quite the same implications (at least in my mind).
    Well yes, that's the Parkinson's law point.

    I thought Parkinson's point was that people would spend ages discussing trivial things that they understood but not important things that they didn't?

    In this case the argument isn't about something trivial, even if it won't make much difference economically.
    People here have been pointing out that fishing is trivial in terms of employment - Harrods employs more people, so they say.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    geoffw said:

    In the early 60s (I think), Elvis was vaccinated with the Salk polio vaccine on live tv. Apparently that was a major boost to the vaccination campaign.

    Let's get the right people for the job at each phase: Attenborough and HMQ.
    Expanding on your list, TV vaccination dream team: Attenborough, HMQ, Prince William, Chris Whitty, Martin Lewis, Marcus Rashford & Deborah Meaden
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Just me, or is it not the best time to be looking to rip off air passengers?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55156512

    This has actually really pissed me off. When I do use EasyShite, I only take a smallish backpack (no not just massshooovie wheel on case thingie), which is a tad too big to fit under the seat without worrying about buggering my laptop.
    Flying with Easyjet/Ryanair/British Airways is like sex with your ex, at the start you think it'll be fun, but 10 minutes in and you wonder why you even bothered and full of regret for ages.
    The trick is to only ever fly first class. ;)
    You fly commercial?
    Friend of my wife turned up randomly in Dubai last week from Moscow. Her husband has been making good money on the private jet charter market this year, and they found an “empty leg” opportunity to take a holiday at the last minute.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481

    I would like to rescind my acknowledgement of the early Pfizer vaccine approval as a potential benefit of Brexit, as I now see that this is fake news. Kicking myself for the elementary mistake of believing anything the government says.

    Standard EU MO isn't it? Get called on something, say 'No no no, every member state has the right!' - yet strangely enough none have used it. It will be nice (and is already nice) to be unequivocally outside the purview of such laws/regulations/recommendations/helpful hints, so that it's absolutely clear who is responsible for fuck ups as and when they occur.
    Yet both No 10 and the MHRA have contradicted Hancock on this so I am surprised to see you still buying it. The EU's slightly more thorough vetting procedure doesn't look that stupid considering public scepticism about vaccines. Mind you, I won't be getting the vaccine for months, if at all, so I'm not especially fussed either way. By the time I get it I imagine any issues will have been identified.
    In theory, every single EU law and regulation is implemented at a member state level, and policed by domestic agencies, so it is all national law, with zero responsibility by the EU. In practice for reasons that remain shrouded in mystery, every other member state has not approved this vaccine using their 'emergency powers' and we have. The surprise I have that that's how the cookie has crumbled is zero.

    A similar issue would be lack of dredging rivers, contributing to massive flooding. Dredging is made nearly impossible if EU regulations concerning it are implemented fully - yet when floods come and protest is raised, the EU claims that it's all down to national Governments and agencies, and we can all dredge as much as we like. Again - whatever. I'm just glad we're out of it and we can un-elect Governments who have crap policies.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,603
    Three cheers for experts.....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    dixiedean said:

    Other than using physical force or drugs, how does one "entrap" someone into being stark bollock naked at a gangbang?
    Hasn't he admitted it, apologised and resigned anyway?
    Bait and switch.

    You tell him the gang bang is heterosexual in nature then bam you bring out the dudes.
    Don't bring out a female I guess.
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Other than using physical force or drugs, how does one "entrap" someone into being stark bollock naked at a gangbang?
    Hasn't he admitted it, apologised and resigned anyway?
    Bait and switch.

    You tell him the gang bang is heterosexual in nature then bam you bring out the dudes.
    Don't bring out a female I guess.
    Indeed.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    Meanwhile, that extrapolation against ONS infection rates and English hospital admissions I started on a few weeks ago:



    As before:
    - Red bars are actual UK-wide deaths per day against date of deaths. Last several days not included due to data lag causing them to move excessively; the last three or four days shown will still likely go up by 1-20 or so.
    - Blue bars are extrapolated deaths from hospital admissions in England 10 days earlier (multiplied by 1.2 for UK-wide; as Welsh admissions are not comparable) multiplied by the average death rate from hospitalisations over the previous couple of months
    - Yellow bars are extrapolated deaths from infections in England as per the ONS survey 19 days earlier, multiplied by 1.2 to scale up UK-wide and multiplied by the average deaths-per-infection-in-ONS-survey to date.

    It actually looks like deaths are dropping below the expected extrapolations, which is welcome. To be fair, the most recent three or four days shown will probably increase, but I doubt that this will happen all the way to the height of the blue bars. This could indicate further improving treatments.
  • dixiedean said:

    Other than using physical force or drugs, how does one "entrap" someone into being stark bollock naked at a gangbang?
    Hasn't he admitted it, apologised and resigned anyway?
    Bait and switch.

    You tell him the gang bang is heterosexual in nature then bam you bring out the dudes.
    That is why you should always have a safe word.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-2dN9E8vPk
  • UK cases by specimen date

    As an experiment, this is a link to the actual image. Click on it to see full size.

    image

    Yes, better idea. (Right-click and 'Open link in new tab' if you can't bear being parted from PB.com)
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

  • HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Either way then Boris would get his EU Deal through, he would need Labour to oppose as well as all the other opposition parties and about 50 Tory No Deal hardliners for it to fail to pass
    Makes a huge difference. It would be the biggest mistake of Starmer's political career to vote with Johnson on a deal.

    It wouldn't under FPTP, to become PM Starmer needs to win back seats Corbyn lost to the Tories in the Red Wall in 2019 (after Corbyn opposed May and Boris' Brexit Deals).

    No point Labour winning 70%+ of the vote in Safe Labour seats in diehard Remain inner city London, Manchester, Liverpool, Cardiff, Oxford and Brighton etc if they lose lots of leave voting marginal seats again in the Midlands and North and Wales to the Tories.

    Starmer is sensibly positioning himself now between diehard Remain and No Deal hardliners on both the opposition and Tory backbenches, knowing GE19 defeated the former but the latter are still a headache for Boris within Tory ranks
    Starmer's line looks like being "settled will, won't stand in way, if (when) it fails it will be due to Johnson, Gove and Sunak's dishonesty and incompetence etc" Which is both Starmer's comfort zone and reasonably true.

    So, if it gets to Parliament (I still think the key conflict is in Johnson's psyche), Starmer lists all the ways the deal isn't what Johnson promised and puts down embarrassing amendments.

    But however bad this deal will be, only the loons will think it's worse than no deal. So faced with that choice, and the loon count on the government benches, Labour vote for the deal to save Johnson and the country from Conservative MPs. Very very loudly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136
    edited December 2020
    Selebian said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    Thought 1: I hope this is for Rishi himself, otherwise he's just spoilt the surprise for (at least one of) his kids.
    Thought 2: His kids will also now know that it's Rishi, not Santa, who buys the presents
    Thought 3: Unless 'kids' refers to everyone's kids and Rishi is in fact Santa?
    Rishi and his wife are Hindu anyway, the family might not even celebrate Christmas.

    The caption just said he was picking up presents, not that they were Christmas presents
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,698
    dixiedean said:

    Other than using physical force or drugs, how does one "entrap" someone into being stark bollock naked at a gangbang?
    Hasn't he admitted it, apologised and resigned anyway?
    https://twitter.com/eublogo/status/1334186362036244488
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Either way then Boris would get his EU Deal through, he would need Labour to oppose as well as all the other opposition parties and about 50 Tory No Deal hardliners for it to fail to pass
    Makes a huge difference. It would be the biggest mistake of Starmer's political career to vote with Johnson on a deal.

    It wouldn't under FPTP, to become PM Starmer needs to win back seats Corbyn lost to the Tories in the Red Wall in 2019 (after Corbyn opposed May and Boris' Brexit Deals).

    No point Labour winning 70%+ of the vote in Safe Labour seats in diehard Remain inner city London, Manchester, Liverpool, Cardiff, Oxford and Brighton etc if they lose lots of leave voting marginal seats again in the Midlands and North and Wales to the Tories.

    Starmer is sensibly positioning himself now between diehard Remain and No Deal hardliners on both the opposition and Tory backbenches, knowing GE19 defeated the former but the latter are still a headache for Boris within Tory ranks
    Starmer's line looks like being "settled will, won't stand in way, if (when) it fails it will be due to Johnson, Gove and Sunak's dishonesty and incompetence etc" Which is both Starmer's comfort zone and reasonably true.

    So, if it gets to Parliament (I still think the key conflict is in Johnson's psyche), Starmer lists all the ways the deal isn't what Johnson promised and puts down embarrassing amendments.

    But however bad this deal will be, only the loons will think it's worse than no deal. So faced with that choice, and the loon count on the government benches, Labour vote for the deal to save Johnson and the country from Conservative MPs. Very very loudly.
    Indeed, the Deal passing with 50 or even 100+ No Deal diehards on the Tory backbenches voting against is better for Starmer than voting it down again so Labour looks anti Brexit to the Red Wall while also sharing the blame for No Deal.

    It also makes Boris look less like Thatcher and more like Major post Maastricht
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    edited December 2020
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Turks drink more tea than we do as a nation. But he comes from a Gastarbeiter family so I suppose he's 2nd generation German.

  • HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    Thought 1: I hope this is for Rishi himself, otherwise he's just spoilt the surprise for (at least one of) his kids.
    Thought 2: His kids will also now know that it's Rishi, not Santa, who buys the presents
    Thought 3: Unless 'kids' refers to everyone's kids and Rishi is in fact Santa?
    Rishi and his wife are Hindu anyway, the family might not even celebrate Christmas.

    The caption just said he was picking up presents, not that they were Christmas presents
    Why do you think they might not even celebrate Christmas?
  • HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    Thought 1: I hope this is for Rishi himself, otherwise he's just spoilt the surprise for (at least one of) his kids.
    Thought 2: His kids will also now know that it's Rishi, not Santa, who buys the presents
    Thought 3: Unless 'kids' refers to everyone's kids and Rishi is in fact Santa?
    Rishi and his wife are Hindu anyway, the family might not even celebrate Christmas.

    The caption just said he was picking up presents, not that they were Christmas presents
    Why do you think they might not even celebrate Christmas?
    Because he's from the 17th century and thinks Christmas is Christian.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
    No, we drink proper liquids.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136
    edited December 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    Thought 1: I hope this is for Rishi himself, otherwise he's just spoilt the surprise for (at least one of) his kids.
    Thought 2: His kids will also now know that it's Rishi, not Santa, who buys the presents
    Thought 3: Unless 'kids' refers to everyone's kids and Rishi is in fact Santa?
    Rishi and his wife are Hindu anyway, the family might not even celebrate Christmas.

    The caption just said he was picking up presents, not that they were Christmas presents
    Why do you think they might not even celebrate Christmas?
    Not all Hindus do, it is not a religious festival for them and not all will do the secular festivities either
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    For the assistance of Andrew Neil, and possibly David Paton, Swedish deaths per date since mid October as they have changed over the past week or so.


    The higher the peak gets the more strongly it trends downwards.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,698

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
    Is your view that nothing is distinctively English?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
    Is your view that nothing is distinctively English?
    In fairness, although I naturally think of tea, talking endlessly about the weather and losing at rugby as quintessentially English, another great national characteristic of theirs is putting themselves down and saying how other national traits are superior.
  • JVT makes point that the Phase 1 priority list once vaccinated will protect 99% of those who are in the demographic who have died so far.

    Johnson declines Express suggestion that Brexit got us the approval faster, instead emphasising the international nature of the work.
  • dixiedean said:

    Other than using physical force or drugs, how does one "entrap" someone into being stark bollock naked at a gangbang?
    Hasn't he admitted it, apologised and resigned anyway?
    Bait and switch.

    You tell him the gang bang is heterosexual in nature then bam you bring out the dudes.
    'I had no idea who was at the other side of that gloryhole'
  • At which point 66% of the population will complain that ministers are queue jumping...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
    Is your view that nothing is distinctively English?
    My view is that *that* is certainly not - I live in Scotland and people here drink and make cups of tea as much as their neighbours down South. Can't speak for Wales or NI, but don't see that they would be any different. Don't really see what's English about it at all.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    Thought 1: I hope this is for Rishi himself, otherwise he's just spoilt the surprise for (at least one of) his kids.
    Thought 2: His kids will also now know that it's Rishi, not Santa, who buys the presents
    Thought 3: Unless 'kids' refers to everyone's kids and Rishi is in fact Santa?
    Rishi and his wife are Hindu anyway, the family might not even celebrate Christmas.

    The caption just said he was picking up presents, not that they were Christmas presents
    Why do you think they might not even celebrate Christmas?
    Not all Hindus do, it is not a religious festival for them and not all will do the secular festivities either
    You clearly haven't met enough Indians lol, especially the second generation types like Rishi. Christmas is pretty standard, everyone does something for it, especially with kids. Even my super religious family in the US buy a tree every year and give presents etc...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited December 2020

    JVT makes point that the Phase 1 priority list once vaccinated will protect 99% of those who are in the demographic who have died so far.

    Johnson declines Express suggestion that Brexit got us the approval faster, instead emphasising the international nature of the work.

    I think my concern with the list as it stands is, will the Phase 1 list if implemented it allow us to stop these contact isolations?

    Because that’s the real economic and social - as opposed to medical - problem. It’s what’s reducing the education system to rubble, for a start.

    And if it won’t, how soon can we get phase 2 and who is in it?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Either way then Boris would get his EU Deal through, he would need Labour to oppose as well as all the other opposition parties and about 50 Tory No Deal hardliners for it to fail to pass
    Makes a huge difference. It would be the biggest mistake of Starmer's political career to vote with Johnson on a deal.

    It wouldn't under FPTP, to become PM Starmer needs to win back seats Corbyn lost to the Tories in the Red Wall in 2019 (after Corbyn opposed May and Boris' Brexit Deals).

    No point Labour winning 70%+ of the vote in Safe Labour seats in diehard Remain inner city London, Manchester, Liverpool, Cardiff, Oxford and Brighton etc if they lose lots of leave voting marginal seats again in the Midlands and North and Wales to the Tories.

    Starmer is sensibly positioning himself now between diehard Remain and No Deal hardliners on both the opposition and Tory backbenches, knowing GE19 defeated the former but the latter are still a headache for Boris within Tory ranks
    Starmer's line looks like being "settled will, won't stand in way, if (when) it fails it will be due to Johnson, Gove and Sunak's dishonesty and incompetence etc" Which is both Starmer's comfort zone and reasonably true.

    So, if it gets to Parliament (I still think the key conflict is in Johnson's psyche), Starmer lists all the ways the deal isn't what Johnson promised and puts down embarrassing amendments.

    But however bad this deal will be, only the loons will think it's worse than no deal. So faced with that choice, and the loon count on the government benches, Labour vote for the deal to save Johnson and the country from Conservative MPs. Very very loudly.
    Indeed, the Deal passing with 50 or even 100+ No Deal diehards on the Tory backbenches voting against is better for Starmer than voting it down again so Labour looks anti Brexit to the Red Wall while also sharing the blame for No Deal.

    It also makes Boris look less like Thatcher and more like Major post Maastricht
    Hmm.
    Being totally cynical, anything that puts a wedge between the government and the backbenchers isn't good for Johnson. As with last night, giving rebels a free hit makes it easier to rebel.
    How bad could it get? Suppose deal = quite a lot of LPF, quite a lot of Eurofish, 12 months more EEA shadowing to get systems in place for (say) £12 billion, neutering the IM bill...how many Conservative MPs wouldn't support?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136
    edited December 2020
    Ie Boris is going to do a Deal but will spin it as having taken back full control whatever compromises he makes
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    This is the thirty year story of mRNA medicines:
    https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/
    ...Before messenger RNA was a multibillion-dollar idea, it was a scientific backwater. And for the Hungarian-born scientist behind a key mRNA discovery, it was a career dead-end.

    Katalin Karikó spent the 1990s collecting rejections. Her work, attempting to harness the power of mRNA to fight disease, was too far-fetched for government grants, corporate funding, and even support from her own colleagues.

    It all made sense on paper. In the natural world, the body relies on millions of tiny proteins to keep itself alive and healthy, and it uses mRNA to tell cells which proteins to make. If you could design your own mRNA, you could, in theory, hijack that process and create any protein you might desire — antibodies to vaccinate against infection, enzymes to reverse a rare disease, or growth agents to mend damaged heart tissue.

    In 1990, researchers at the University of Wisconsin managed to make it work in mice. Karikó wanted to go further...

  • Interesting, Johnson twice declined to claim a "Brexit Bonus" for first approval of the vaccine - maybe he doesn't want to antagonise his colleagues in the EU....
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,706
    Why stop at televising Hancock's vaccine injection?

    They ought to roll out a vaccine-cam channel. Set up at one or two of the major public vaccination points, then just 24/7 people going into a room, being jabbed, and leaving. See what celebrities you can spot! Marvel at the constant stream of randomers getting vaccinated! Rejoice in the efficiency of the process that will put life back to normal soon!

    It's all for mumble mumble reasons.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481

    Interesting, Johnson twice declined to claim a "Brexit Bonus" for first approval of the vaccine - maybe he doesn't want to antagonise his colleagues in the EU....

    I think that's a fairly accurate take - he is in negotiations, he'll rightly avoid anything that could be seen as tubthumping. The same trappist silence certainly need not apply to everyone else - and most certainly wouldn't apply to remainers if we were lagging a couple of weeks behind the EU.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
    Is your view that nothing is distinctively English?
    In fairness, although I naturally think of tea, talking endlessly about the weather and losing at rugby as quintessentially English, another great national characteristic of theirs is putting themselves down and saying how other national traits are superior.
    Here's what my German ex-father-in-law thought was quintessentially English:



    He reckoned it typified the English make do and mend attitude. He said it would never occur to a German to come up with such a cheap but effective device for showering.
  • Beth Rigby has to be one of the most miserable people on TV.

    I can see why Adam Boulton lost his temper with her a number of times...and I am no fan of Adam Boulton.
  • dixiedean said:

    Other than using physical force or drugs, how does one "entrap" someone into being stark bollock naked at a gangbang?
    Hasn't he admitted it, apologised and resigned anyway?
    https://twitter.com/eublogo/status/1334186362036244488
    I am betting if it had been a straight gangbang, he wouldn't be leaving.
  • MaxPB said:

    JVT makes point that the Phase 1 priority list once vaccinated will protect 99% of those who are in the demographic who have died so far.

    Johnson declines Express suggestion that Brexit got us the approval faster, instead emphasising the international nature of the work.

    As I pointed out this morning, it's just unnecessary. Celebrate that we're going to finally beat this bastard disease, celebrate that we're going to start the programme in December, no need to gloat that we're first or second or whatever. It's a really awful look and all of those people pushing that narrative should be ashamed. There's going to be a lot of hardship for a huge number of developing nations in the next few years as the west looks to its own (rightly so) gloating about how we are first is unnecessarily abrasive.
    Also, without knowing the pace of progress from here to herd immunity-ish, getting sneery about a few weeks for one step is potentially irrelevant.

    But while there are legitimate reasons for Brexit, even quite a hard one, a strand of support is all about cultural cringe and a desire to say "Look Mummy (Merkel), no hands"...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
    Is your view that nothing is distinctively English?
    In fairness, although I naturally think of tea, talking endlessly about the weather and losing at rugby as quintessentially English, another great national characteristic of theirs is putting themselves down and saying how other national traits are superior.
    Here's what my German ex-father-in-law thought was quintessentially English:



    He reckoned it typified the English make do and mend attitude. He said it would never occur to a German to come up with such a cheap but effective device for showering.
    I think he’s a bit unfair. After all, some of his fellow countrymen gave us the Trabant.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,551
    Maybe barmy, but it is easier to attack every individual tax rise (which of course this is) than it is to suggest how to raise enough tax to fill the many billion gap between taxes and expenditure.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
    Not to mention the rest of the Irish.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Either way then Boris would get his EU Deal through, he would need Labour to oppose as well as all the other opposition parties and about 50 Tory No Deal hardliners for it to fail to pass
    Makes a huge difference. It would be the biggest mistake of Starmer's political career to vote with Johnson on a deal.

    It wouldn't under FPTP, to become PM Starmer needs to win back seats Corbyn lost to the Tories in the Red Wall in 2019 (after Corbyn opposed May and Boris' Brexit Deals).

    No point Labour winning 70%+ of the vote in Safe Labour seats in diehard Remain inner city London, Manchester, Liverpool, Cardiff, Oxford and Brighton etc if they lose lots of leave voting marginal seats again in the Midlands and North and Wales to the Tories.

    Starmer is sensibly positioning himself now between diehard Remain and No Deal hardliners on both the opposition and Tory backbenches, knowing GE19 defeated the former but the latter are still a headache for Boris within Tory ranks
    Starmer's line looks like being "settled will, won't stand in way, if (when) it fails it will be due to Johnson, Gove and Sunak's dishonesty and incompetence etc" Which is both Starmer's comfort zone and reasonably true.

    So, if it gets to Parliament (I still think the key conflict is in Johnson's psyche), Starmer lists all the ways the deal isn't what Johnson promised and puts down embarrassing amendments.

    But however bad this deal will be, only the loons will think it's worse than no deal. So faced with that choice, and the loon count on the government benches, Labour vote for the deal to save Johnson and the country from Conservative MPs. Very very loudly.
    Indeed, the Deal passing with 50 or even 100+ No Deal diehards on the Tory backbenches voting against is better for Starmer than voting it down again so Labour looks anti Brexit to the Red Wall while also sharing the blame for No Deal.

    It also makes Boris look less like Thatcher and more like Major post Maastricht
    Hmm.
    Being totally cynical, anything that puts a wedge between the government and the backbenchers isn't good for Johnson. As with last night, giving rebels a free hit makes it easier to rebel.
    How bad could it get? Suppose deal = quite a lot of LPF, quite a lot of Eurofish, 12 months more EEA shadowing to get systems in place for (say) £12 billion, neutering the IM bill...how many Conservative MPs wouldn't support?
    118 Tory MPs voted against May's Deal on first reading, 75 against her Deal on second reading, 33 against her Deal on third reading.

    I would expect a Tory rebellion probably less than the vote on May's Deal on first reading but more than the vote on May's Deal on third reading
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,896
    Evening all :)

    As my local cafe doesn't serve alcohol, I shall look forward to my substantial breakfast tomorrow morning (and possibly Friday too).

    The news on the vaccine is welcome but I'm left with a few niggling questions and I'm hoping whoever has the use of the family brain cells this evening can help out:

    1) Am I right in thinking everyone will need two shots - the second three weeks after the first?
    2) Am I right in thinking immunity kicks in seven days AFTER the second shot?

    This needs, if true, to be communicated. How will people be persuaded that a) they need a second shot and b) despite having the two shots, they can still catch Covid and can't start embracing the old normal as soon as the first needle goes in?

    If I get a jab on February 1st then it will be March 1st before my immunity kicks in as long as I remember the second jab on February 22nd. That month is going to cause a lot of problems if people think life immediately goes back to what they consider normal.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    Thought 1: I hope this is for Rishi himself, otherwise he's just spoilt the surprise for (at least one of) his kids.
    Thought 2: His kids will also now know that it's Rishi, not Santa, who buys the presents
    Thought 3: Unless 'kids' refers to everyone's kids and Rishi is in fact Santa?
    Rishi and his wife are Hindu anyway, the family might not even celebrate Christmas.

    The caption just said he was picking up presents, not that they were Christmas presents
    Why do you think they might not even celebrate Christmas?
    Because he's from the 17th century and thinks Christmas is Christian.
    16th please. Henrician settlement and the C of E.
  • HYUFD said:

    Ie Boris is going to do a Deal but will spin it as having taken back full control whatever compromises he makes
    After all, it'll be a British Sovereign Decision to make those compromises and not play those cards, won't it?
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
    Is your view that nothing is distinctively English?
    In fairness, although I naturally think of tea, talking endlessly about the weather and losing at rugby as quintessentially English, another great national characteristic of theirs is putting themselves down and saying how other national traits are superior.
    Here's what my German ex-father-in-law thought was quintessentially English:



    He reckoned it typified the English make do and mend attitude. He said it would never occur to a German to come up with such a cheap but effective device for showering.
    Cheap, yes. Effective, no. Having a proper shower is one of the few ways that my life has really materially improved from when I was a child.
  • Interesting, Johnson twice declined to claim a "Brexit Bonus" for first approval of the vaccine - maybe he doesn't want to antagonise his colleagues in the EU....

    I think that's a fairly accurate take - he is in negotiations, he'll rightly avoid anything that could be seen as tubthumping. The same trappist silence certainly need not apply to everyone else - and most certainly wouldn't apply to remainers if we were lagging a couple of weeks behind the EU.
    Cos it's such bollocks that even he can't bring himself to claim it.
  • ydoethur said:

    JVT makes point that the Phase 1 priority list once vaccinated will protect 99% of those who are in the demographic who have died so far.

    Johnson declines Express suggestion that Brexit got us the approval faster, instead emphasising the international nature of the work.

    I think my concern with the list as it stands is, will the Phase 1 list if implemented it allow us to stop these contact isolations?

    Because that’s the real economic and social - as opposed to medical - problem. It’s what’s reducing the education system to rubble, for a start.

    And if it won’t, how soon can we get phase 2 and who is in it?
    If the viral spread was 99% less fatal then would we have implemented those isolations in the first place?

    Taking 99% of deaths potentially out of the equation really changes the cost benefit ratio of restrictions dramatically.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    Thought 1: I hope this is for Rishi himself, otherwise he's just spoilt the surprise for (at least one of) his kids.
    Thought 2: His kids will also now know that it's Rishi, not Santa, who buys the presents
    Thought 3: Unless 'kids' refers to everyone's kids and Rishi is in fact Santa?
    Rishi and his wife are Hindu anyway, the family might not even celebrate Christmas.

    The caption just said he was picking up presents, not that they were Christmas presents
    Why do you think they might not even celebrate Christmas?
    Because he's from the 17th century and thinks Christmas is Christian.
    It is Christian, hence the title, the secular add ons do not change the fact it is primarily a festival to celebrate the birth of Christ
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,592
    Everyone over 50 ought to be strongly encouraged to take the vaccine. No need to talk about making it compulsory IMO.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884

    ydoethur said:

    JVT makes point that the Phase 1 priority list once vaccinated will protect 99% of those who are in the demographic who have died so far.

    Johnson declines Express suggestion that Brexit got us the approval faster, instead emphasising the international nature of the work.

    I think my concern with the list as it stands is, will the Phase 1 list if implemented it allow us to stop these contact isolations?

    Because that’s the real economic and social - as opposed to medical - problem. It’s what’s reducing the education system to rubble, for a start.

    And if it won’t, how soon can we get phase 2 and who is in it?
    If the viral spread was 99% less fatal then would we have implemented those isolations in the first place?

    Taking 99% of deaths potentially out of the equation really changes the cost benefit ratio of restrictions dramatically.
    Morbidity is still an issue to be evaluated (ie long covid). But one hopes it will be cut in a similar ratio.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,592
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Updated Electoral Calculus forecast. Gives Con+DUP slightly more seats than Lab+SNP.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

    But Lab+SNP+LD is more than Con+DUP, making Ed Davey Kingmaker
    This is before boundary changes which will probably give the Tories an extra 10 to 15 seats.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,603

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
    Is your view that nothing is distinctively English?
    In fairness, although I naturally think of tea, talking endlessly about the weather and losing at rugby as quintessentially English, another great national characteristic of theirs is putting themselves down and saying how other national traits are superior.
    Here's what my German ex-father-in-law thought was quintessentially English:



    He reckoned it typified the English make do and mend attitude. He said it would never occur to a German to come up with such a cheap but effective device for showering.
    I am told they were known as "testicles" in Cheltenham Ladies College.....
  • Virus with human kind 'forever'

    In the final question, Van-Tam is asked if he can envisage a world where we can cast aside our masks and hand sanitiser for good.

    The deputy chief medical officer says he doesn't think we will eradicate coronavirus "ever", adding: "It will be with humankind forever".

    He also thinks it may become "a seasonal problem", like flu.

    "Do I think there will be a big moment where we have a big party and throw off our masks? No I don't," says Van-Tam.

    Instead, he thinks the "personal habit" may carry on for some years, even if the government doesn't insist on the measures.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481
    MaxPB said:

    JVT makes point that the Phase 1 priority list once vaccinated will protect 99% of those who are in the demographic who have died so far.

    Johnson declines Express suggestion that Brexit got us the approval faster, instead emphasising the international nature of the work.

    As I pointed out this morning, it's just unnecessary. Celebrate that we're going to finally beat this bastard disease, celebrate that we're going to start the programme in December, no need to gloat that we're first or second or whatever. It's a really awful look and all of those people pushing that narrative should be ashamed. There's going to be a lot of hardship for a huge number of developing nations in the next few years as the west looks to its own (rightly so) gloating about how we are first is unnecessarily abrasive.
    No idea why you're coming on so strong about what is essentially a bald statement of fact. We changed/diverged from the current EU regs to allow the vaccine to be approved more quickly - it was approved more quickly. So far, so logical. The idea that it is 'shameful' to point this out is frankly bizarre. I recall no shame being heaped on people when they argued that declining to be part of the EU vaccine programme was endangering peoples' lives by delaying the acquisition of vaccine supplies.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    Thought 1: I hope this is for Rishi himself, otherwise he's just spoilt the surprise for (at least one of) his kids.
    Thought 2: His kids will also now know that it's Rishi, not Santa, who buys the presents
    Thought 3: Unless 'kids' refers to everyone's kids and Rishi is in fact Santa?
    Rishi and his wife are Hindu anyway, the family might not even celebrate Christmas.

    The caption just said he was picking up presents, not that they were Christmas presents
    Why do you think they might not even celebrate Christmas?
    Because he's from the 17th century and thinks Christmas is Christian.
    It is Christian, hence the title, the secular add ons do not change the fact it is primarily a festival to celebrate the birth of Christ
    No, it's not. It's a secular holiday celebrated for thousands of years predating Christ. Just because Christians appropriated it and moved the supposed birth of Christ by months to match the preexisting festivals doesn't mean only Christians can, do or should partake.

    Christmas trees and other elements have been celebrated in this continent for about 3000 years.

    Christian my arse.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,779
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    As my local cafe doesn't serve alcohol, I shall look forward to my substantial breakfast tomorrow morning (and possibly Friday too).

    The news on the vaccine is welcome but I'm left with a few niggling questions and I'm hoping whoever has the use of the family brain cells this evening can help out:

    1) Am I right in thinking everyone will need two shots - the second three weeks after the first?
    2) Am I right in thinking immunity kicks in seven days AFTER the second shot?

    This needs, if true, to be communicated. How will people be persuaded that a) they need a second shot and b) despite having the two shots, they can still catch Covid and can't start embracing the old normal as soon as the first needle goes in?

    If I get a jab on February 1st then it will be March 1st before my immunity kicks in as long as I remember the second jab on February 22nd. That month is going to cause a lot of problems if people think life immediately goes back to what they consider normal.

    Technically I believe that the 95% efficacy claimed is for 7 days post 2nd shot - but this clearly isn't going to be binary - it's not like your body will be utterly susceptible 6days post the second shot but overnight the magic happens. From other vaccines which have a 2nd 'booster' shot type approach the general rule of thumb seems to be 1st shot gets you to something like 60% efficacy, 2nd shot takes you over 90% - and again, in both cases that's likely to be growing curve from injection to day X (and no idea what shape the curve is)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,603
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
    Is your view that nothing is distinctively English?
    In fairness, although I naturally think of tea, talking endlessly about the weather and losing at rugby as quintessentially English, another great national characteristic of theirs is putting themselves down and saying how other national traits are superior.
    Here's what my German ex-father-in-law thought was quintessentially English:



    He reckoned it typified the English make do and mend attitude. He said it would never occur to a German to come up with such a cheap but effective device for showering.
    I think he’s a bit unfair. After all, some of his fellow countrymen gave us the Trabant.
    Literally gave us Trabants. People from East Germany just drove them to the border with the West and abadoned them.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,222
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Not again! I've covered this point so many times and I really am getting sick of constantly having to repeat myself on here.

    Scotch eggs can be quite filling.

    It does depend on the species and, if necessary, breed of the avian.

    https://www.waitrose.com/home/recipes/recipe_directory/m/mini_scotch_eggs_with_quail_eggs.html
    Ah no - those are just a snack. Very poncy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136
    edited December 2020

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    Thought 1: I hope this is for Rishi himself, otherwise he's just spoilt the surprise for (at least one of) his kids.
    Thought 2: His kids will also now know that it's Rishi, not Santa, who buys the presents
    Thought 3: Unless 'kids' refers to everyone's kids and Rishi is in fact Santa?
    Rishi and his wife are Hindu anyway, the family might not even celebrate Christmas.

    The caption just said he was picking up presents, not that they were Christmas presents
    Why do you think they might not even celebrate Christmas?
    Because he's from the 17th century and thinks Christmas is Christian.
    It is Christian, hence the title, the secular add ons do not change the fact it is primarily a festival to celebrate the birth of Christ
    No, it's not. It's a secular holiday celebrated for thousands of years predating Christ. Just because Christians appropriated it and moved the supposed birth of Christ by months to match the preexisting festivals doesn't mean only Christians can, do or should partake.

    Christmas trees and other elements have been celebrated in this continent for about 3000 years.

    Christian my arse.
    Oh yes it is.

    There were winter festivals before and Christmas trees may have been around for centuries but Christmas ie 'CHRISTmas' is a Christian festival and always has been.

    The fact your ideological, atheist, non conservative views as usual differ does not change that
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    Thought 1: I hope this is for Rishi himself, otherwise he's just spoilt the surprise for (at least one of) his kids.
    Thought 2: His kids will also now know that it's Rishi, not Santa, who buys the presents
    Thought 3: Unless 'kids' refers to everyone's kids and Rishi is in fact Santa?
    Rishi and his wife are Hindu anyway, the family might not even celebrate Christmas.

    The caption just said he was picking up presents, not that they were Christmas presents
    Why do you think they might not even celebrate Christmas?
    Because he's from the 17th century and thinks Christmas is Christian.
    It is Christian, hence the title, the secular add ons do not change the fact it is primarily a festival to celebrate the birth of Christ
    No, it's not. It's a secular holiday celebrated for thousands of years predating Christ. Just because Christians appropriated it and moved the supposed birth of Christ by months to match the preexisting festivals doesn't mean only Christians can, do or should partake.

    Christmas trees and other elements have been celebrated in this continent for about 3000 years.

    Christian my arse.
    Secular 'holy day' - great argument there champ.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
    Is your view that nothing is distinctively English?
    In fairness, although I naturally think of tea, talking endlessly about the weather and losing at rugby as quintessentially English, another great national characteristic of theirs is putting themselves down and saying how other national traits are superior.
    Here's what my German ex-father-in-law thought was quintessentially English:



    He reckoned it typified the English make do and mend attitude. He said it would never occur to a German to come up with such a cheap but effective device for showering.
    I am told they were known as "testicles" in Cheltenham Ladies College.....
    Seems an odd thing to call the Germans. Memories of World War II?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,100
    edited December 2020
    Piers Corbyn has been found guilty of breaking coronavirus laws during an anti-lockdown protest at London's Hyde Park.

    Corbyn was handed an absolute discharge - meaning he will not be fined or face any further punishment - after the judge heard he had spent 12 hours in custody after being arrested.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9009811/Piers-Corbyn-arrives-court-second-day-trial-breaching-lockdown-restrictions.html

    What's the point of this threat of a £10k fine lark then? The rich get away with it again.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
    Not to mention the rest of the Irish.
    Quite - I suppose even calling it 'British' is a stretch - though more accurate.
  • MaxPB said:

    JVT makes point that the Phase 1 priority list once vaccinated will protect 99% of those who are in the demographic who have died so far.

    Johnson declines Express suggestion that Brexit got us the approval faster, instead emphasising the international nature of the work.

    As I pointed out this morning, it's just unnecessary. Celebrate that we're going to finally beat this bastard disease, celebrate that we're going to start the programme in December, no need to gloat that we're first or second or whatever. It's a really awful look and all of those people pushing that narrative should be ashamed. There's going to be a lot of hardship for a huge number of developing nations in the next few years as the west looks to its own (rightly so) gloating about how we are first is unnecessarily abrasive.
    No idea why you're coming on so strong about what is essentially a bald statement of fact. We changed/diverged from the current EU regs to allow the vaccine to be approved more quickly - it was approved more quickly. So far, so logical. The idea that it is 'shameful' to point this out is frankly bizarre. I recall no shame being heaped on people when they argued that declining to be part of the EU vaccine programme was endangering peoples' lives by delaying the acquisition of vaccine supplies.
    It's got nothing to do with Brexit though. Whether it is a wise decision or not is a different question, and will only be partially evident later.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Piers Corbyn has been found guilty of breaking coronavirus laws during an anti-lockdown protest at London's Hyde Park.

    Corbyn was handed an absolute discharge - meaning he will not be fined or face any further punishment - after the judge heard he had spent 12 hours in custody after being arrested.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9009811/Piers-Corbyn-arrives-court-second-day-trial-breaching-lockdown-restrictions.html

    What's the point of this £10k fine lark then?

    I’m disappointed he didn’t try the opticians defence....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    Thought 1: I hope this is for Rishi himself, otherwise he's just spoilt the surprise for (at least one of) his kids.
    Thought 2: His kids will also now know that it's Rishi, not Santa, who buys the presents
    Thought 3: Unless 'kids' refers to everyone's kids and Rishi is in fact Santa?
    Rishi and his wife are Hindu anyway, the family might not even celebrate Christmas.

    The caption just said he was picking up presents, not that they were Christmas presents
    Why do you think they might not even celebrate Christmas?
    Because he's from the 17th century and thinks Christmas is Christian.
    It is Christian, hence the title, the secular add ons do not change the fact it is primarily a festival to celebrate the birth of Christ
    No, it's not. It's a secular holiday celebrated for thousands of years predating Christ. Just because Christians appropriated it and moved the supposed birth of Christ by months to match the preexisting festivals doesn't mean only Christians can, do or should partake.

    Christmas trees and other elements have been celebrated in this continent for about 3000 years.

    Christian my arse.
    Oh yes it is.

    There were winter festivals before and Christmas trees may have been around for centuries but Christmas ie 'CHRISTmas' is a Christian festival and always has been.

    The fact your ideological, atheist, non conservative views as usual differ does not change that
    The Reformed Protestant tradition, as seen in Scotland, and in my view regrettably lapsed, is that Christmas is most certainly not a Christian festival, but an abomination.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Look at this list.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tea_consumption_per_capita

    Look which country heads it. We don't just share St George.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    Ironic that a Turk is the most applauded individual for producing the Covid vaccine yet Johnson did his level best to keep them out.

    The story of Uğur Şahin is most inspiring. Moved to Germany from Turkey at the age of 4 with his mum to join his dad, who was working as a "guest worker" at a Ford factory in Cologne. Star pupil at school, became a doctor, mathematician and research scientist. Goes on to found his own biotech company, becomes a billionaire, and then leads the development of a world-saving Covid-19 vaccine.

    I bet he doesn't drink Carling Black Label, though.
    He was asked - how did you celebrate. Answered - with a cup of tea with my wife.

    We sure he’s German? That’s about as English as it’s possible to get without actually mentioning the weather.
    Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish people don't drink tea?
    Is your view that nothing is distinctively English?
    In fairness, although I naturally think of tea, talking endlessly about the weather and losing at rugby as quintessentially English, another great national characteristic of theirs is putting themselves down and saying how other national traits are superior.
    Here's what my German ex-father-in-law thought was quintessentially English:



    He reckoned it typified the English make do and mend attitude. He said it would never occur to a German to come up with such a cheap but effective device for showering.
    I think he’s a bit unfair. After all, some of his fellow countrymen gave us the Trabant.
    Literally gave us Trabants. People from East Germany just drove them to the border with the West and abadoned them.
    They got everywhere.

    https://twitter.com/flyingmonkphoto/status/1333354264450707456?s=20
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Either way then Boris would get his EU Deal through, he would need Labour to oppose as well as all the other opposition parties and about 50 Tory No Deal hardliners for it to fail to pass
    Makes a huge difference. It would be the biggest mistake of Starmer's political career to vote with Johnson on a deal.

    It wouldn't under FPTP, to become PM Starmer needs to win back seats Corbyn lost to the Tories in the Red Wall in 2019 (after Corbyn opposed May and Boris' Brexit Deals).

    No point Labour winning 70%+ of the vote in Safe Labour seats in diehard Remain inner city London, Manchester, Liverpool, Cardiff, Oxford and Brighton etc if they lose lots of leave voting marginal seats again in the Midlands and North and Wales to the Tories.

    Starmer is sensibly positioning himself now between diehard Remain and No Deal hardliners on both the opposition and Tory backbenches, knowing GE19 defeated the former but the latter are still a headache for Boris within Tory ranks
    Starmer's line looks like being "settled will, won't stand in way, if (when) it fails it will be due to Johnson, Gove and Sunak's dishonesty and incompetence etc" Which is both Starmer's comfort zone and reasonably true.

    So, if it gets to Parliament (I still think the key conflict is in Johnson's psyche), Starmer lists all the ways the deal isn't what Johnson promised and puts down embarrassing amendments.

    But however bad this deal will be, only the loons will think it's worse than no deal. So faced with that choice, and the loon count on the government benches, Labour vote for the deal to save Johnson and the country from Conservative MPs. Very very loudly.
    Indeed, the Deal passing with 50 or even 100+ No Deal diehards on the Tory backbenches voting against is better for Starmer than voting it down again so Labour looks anti Brexit to the Red Wall while also sharing the blame for No Deal.

    It also makes Boris look less like Thatcher and more like Major post Maastricht
    The fact that the diehards in HY-world are now the extreme leavers is perhaps the burgeoning of a little bit of awareness...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,222
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Updated Electoral Calculus forecast. Gives Con+DUP slightly more seats than Lab+SNP.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

    But Lab+SNP+LD is more than Con+DUP, making Ed Davey Kingmaker
    Gosh. Heavy would be the Ed who wore that crown.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136
    edited December 2020
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:
    Does Richi go anywhere without his personal photographer?
    Thought 1: I hope this is for Rishi himself, otherwise he's just spoilt the surprise for (at least one of) his kids.
    Thought 2: His kids will also now know that it's Rishi, not Santa, who buys the presents
    Thought 3: Unless 'kids' refers to everyone's kids and Rishi is in fact Santa?
    Rishi and his wife are Hindu anyway, the family might not even celebrate Christmas.

    The caption just said he was picking up presents, not that they were Christmas presents
    Why do you think they might not even celebrate Christmas?
    Because he's from the 17th century and thinks Christmas is Christian.
    It is Christian, hence the title, the secular add ons do not change the fact it is primarily a festival to celebrate the birth of Christ
    No, it's not. It's a secular holiday celebrated for thousands of years predating Christ. Just because Christians appropriated it and moved the supposed birth of Christ by months to match the preexisting festivals doesn't mean only Christians can, do or should partake.

    Christmas trees and other elements have been celebrated in this continent for about 3000 years.

    Christian my arse.
    Oh yes it is.

    There were winter festivals before and Christmas trees may have been around for centuries but Christmas ie 'CHRISTmas' is a Christian festival and always has been.

    The fact your ideological, atheist, non conservative views as usual differ does not change that
    The Reformed Protestant tradition, as seen in Scotland, and in my view regrettably lapsed, is that Christmas is most certainly not a Christian festival, but an abomination.
    That tradition was also seen with Oliver Cromwell as the most diehard Puritans did not believe in any festivities of any kind ever, that does not change the fact 'Christ's Mass' came in as a Christian festival via the Catholic Church and continued to be celebrated by the Church of England, despite the brief Cromwellian interlude
This discussion has been closed.