Punters still betting on Trump even though his legal and other efforts to stay have floundered – pol

System

Punters still betting on Trump even though his legal and other efforts to stay have floundered – politicalbetting.com

Even after everything that has happened in the past few days Betfair have continued to keep their 2020 next president market open and the total amount of bets matched now exceeds £908 million. Given the terms of their market as set out on PB several times this is a nonsense and this should have been settled two weeks ago.

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FrancisUrquhart

First...as in first to say we will be back in lockdown after stupid christmas relaxation policy.

Gallowgate

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

RobD

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

I would be very surprised if it's 6 months before the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

FrancisUrquhart

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

If we get the Oxford one, and the government has got their shit together, I don't see why we can't have all the oldies done in 3 months. We do them for flu without any real fuss or having to use loads of squaddies etc.

HSJ leak had a timeline of that sort of nature.

Gallowgate

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

I would be very surprised if it's 6 months before the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

And what happens once most of the "vulnerable" people are vaccinated. What does that actually mean in terms of restrictions?

Life isn't going to go magically back to normal in January February time, is it? In that context, "allowing" people (they were going to do it anyway) to actually see friends and family inside over Christmas makes perfect sense.

IanB2

Fifth and falling.

Gallowgate

FrancisUrquhart said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

If we get the Oxford one, and the government has got their shit together, I don't see why we can't have all the oldies done in 3 months. We do them for flu without any real fuss or having to use loads of squaddies etc.

Ok, so best case by end of February we have all the "oldies" vaccinated. Then what? At what point are people allowed to see their friends and family?

turbotubbs

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

If AZ comes good, then entirely feasible to be mostly done by April.

IshmaelZ

FrancisUrquhart said:

First...as in first to say we will be back in lockdown after stupid christmas relaxation policy.

Yebbut

It's the most wonderful time of the year
With the kids jingle belling
And everyone telling you be of good cheer

You old fun sponge.

rottenborough

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330637322149359619/photo/1

RobD

Gallowgate said:

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

I would be very surprised if it's 6 months before the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

And what happens once most of the "vulnerable" people are vaccinated. What does that actually mean in terms of restrictions?

Life isn't going to go magically back to normal in January February time, is it? In that context, "allowing" people (they were going to do it anyway) to actually see friends and family inside over Christmas makes perfect sense.

No, but it's a sliding scale. The more people are vaccinated the higher the real R has to be to get an effective R greater than 1. There should be 10 million Pfizer doses before the end of the year, so that's already ~10% vaccinated.

FrancisUrquhart

Gallowgate said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

If we get the Oxford one, and the government has got their shit together, I don't see why we can't have all the oldies done in 3 months. We do them for flu without any real fuss or having to use loads of squaddies etc.

Ok, so best case by end of February we have all the "oldies" vaccinated. Then what? At what point are people allowed to see their friends and family?

Well i am under no illusions that it will be at least summer before we are restriction free.

But if granny and grandad has had it, you could have them meet up with members of a single other household at a time in March, rather than Christmas. So they can see the grandad kids etc.

Gallowgate

turbotubbs said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

If AZ comes good, then entirely feasible to be mostly done by April.

Again, in that context, it makes sense to "allow" people to see friends and family over Christmas if they're realistically going to have to wait another 5 months before they can see friends and family again.

alex_

Gallowgate said:

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

I would be very surprised if it's 6 months before the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

And what happens once most of the "vulnerable" people are vaccinated. What does that actually mean in terms of restrictions?

Life isn't going to go magically back to normal in January February time, is it? In that context, "allowing" people (they were going to do it anyway) to actually see friends and family inside over Christmas makes perfect sense.

One of the "leaks" was that you could get a "freedom pass" for two negative tests in a week. Where people are supposed to get these tests from...

turbotubbs

Gallowgate said:

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

I would be very surprised if it's 6 months before the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

And what happens once most of the "vulnerable" people are vaccinated. What does that actually mean in terms of restrictions?

Life isn't going to go magically back to normal in January February time, is it? In that context, "allowing" people (they were going to do it anyway) to actually see friends and family inside over Christmas makes perfect sense.

Yes I agree - normality won’t be jan/feb. Could be by April or may though. Once the most vulnerable are protected it becomes a lot easier.

rottenborough

alex_ said:

Gallowgate said:

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

I would be very surprised if it's 6 months before the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

And what happens once most of the "vulnerable" people are vaccinated. What does that actually mean in terms of restrictions?

Life isn't going to go magically back to normal in January February time, is it? In that context, "allowing" people (they were going to do it anyway) to actually see friends and family inside over Christmas makes perfect sense.

One of the "leaks" was that you could get a "freedom pass" for two negative tests in a week. Where people are supposed to get these tests from...

£43billion has been spent on them, so they should be around somewhere.

alex_

There won't be any normality by next summer once the scale of the economic devastation from Covid and Brexit becomes clear.

Gallowgate

I would love the Government to move heaven and earth to get as many people vaccinated as soon as possible. I would volunteer as part of a national effort to do so.

Do I expect such a thing? Not at all.

I don't even understand why the FDA are waiting 2 weeks from Pfizer requesting emergency approval to actually having a decision meeting about it. Do they have no sense of urgency?

FrancisUrquhart

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

alex_

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

Still, a bit of good news for the meat industry.

turbotubbs

Gallowgate said:

I would love the Government to move heaven and earth to get as many people vaccinated as soon as possible. I would volunteer as part of a national effort to do so.

Do I expect such a thing? Not at all.

I don't even understand why the FDA are waiting 2 weeks from Pfizer requesting emergency approval to actually having a decision meeting about it. Do they have no sense of urgency?

I don’t have an issue with a bit of scrutiny of ALL the data that will have been submitted. It’s not going to 2 sides of A4...

rcs1000

Re when people will be getting the vaccine:

Don't forget that people are already getting vaccinated in the UK as part of the trials. What will happen is that exactly the same places that administered vaccine and placebo, will now solely give vaccines.

This will, I suspect, continue to be the big teaching hospitals that already have plenty of ability to keep drugs safe in quantity.

I suspect that between now and year end, it'll basically just be doctors and nurses, and long term hospital patients, extending to other vulnerable groups in the new year.

Gallowgate

turbotubbs said:

Gallowgate said:

I would love the Government to move heaven and earth to get as many people vaccinated as soon as possible. I would volunteer as part of a national effort to do so.

Do I expect such a thing? Not at all.

I don't even understand why the FDA are waiting 2 weeks from Pfizer requesting emergency approval to actually having a decision meeting about it. Do they have no sense of urgency?

I don’t have an issue with a bit of scrutiny of ALL the data that will have been submitted. It’s not going to 2 sides of A4...

I appreciate that, but two weeks? How many people more people will die in two weeks? How many more businesses will fail? This should be being done 24/7.

alex_

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

It's like they've learnt absolutely nothing from the summer. It's one thing to open things up as much as possible, fully aware of the damage having everything shut is doing to the economy. But that's no excuse for not continuing with a genuine message of caution when taking advantage of the freedoms granted.

FrancisUrquhart

How long do we give it until we have the media reporting people claiming they have been denied their vaccine shot (despite having not booked / responded to the invitation) and are now outside the centre having a meltdown.

IshmaelZ

alex_ said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

Still, a bit of good news for the meat industry.

No, I don't expect Lupo to be entering the food chain.

Foxy

alex_ said:

Gallowgate said:

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

I would be very surprised if it's 6 months before the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

And what happens once most of the "vulnerable" people are vaccinated. What does that actually mean in terms of restrictions?

Life isn't going to go magically back to normal in January February time, is it? In that context, "allowing" people (they were going to do it anyway) to actually see friends and family inside over Christmas makes perfect sense.

One of the "leaks" was that you could get a "freedom pass" for two negative tests in a week. Where people are supposed to get these tests from...

These are the 20 min tests being piloted in Liverpool, and on the NHS from next week. I was signed up for it.

dixiedean

So what about those who don't want their vaccine denying relatives over?
The messaging suggests you are a misanthropic killjoy.

MarqueeMark

Gallowgate said:

Life isn't going to go magically back to normal in January February time, is it?

It might do, for vaccinated oldies wanting to take advantage of rock-bottom cruise prices.....

rcs1000

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

DavidL

Gallowgate said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

If we get the Oxford one, and the government has got their shit together, I don't see why we can't have all the oldies done in 3 months. We do them for flu without any real fuss or having to use loads of squaddies etc.

Ok, so best case by end of February we have all the "oldies" vaccinated. Then what? At what point are people allowed to see their friends and family?

It seems to me that once the vast majority of the vulnerable are inoculated the risk reward ratio will swing strongly and decisively in favour of removing any restraints on the economy. The risk for the under 60’s is just not high enough to destroy their jobs, education and future.

Luckyguy1983

alex_ said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

Still, a bit of good news for the meat industry.

Not news to anyone with common sense.

Gallowgate

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

alex_

Foxy said:

alex_ said:

Gallowgate said:

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

I would be very surprised if it's 6 months before the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

And what happens once most of the "vulnerable" people are vaccinated. What does that actually mean in terms of restrictions?

Life isn't going to go magically back to normal in January February time, is it? In that context, "allowing" people (they were going to do it anyway) to actually see friends and family inside over Christmas makes perfect sense.

One of the "leaks" was that you could get a "freedom pass" for two negative tests in a week. Where people are supposed to get these tests from...

These are the 20 min tests being piloted in Liverpool, and on the NHS from next week. I was signed up for it.

Who administers them?

HYUFD

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

alex_

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

Do you understand the concept of "messaging"?

FrancisUrquhart

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

Messaging.....

rcs1000

FrancisUrquhart said:

Gallowgate said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

If we get the Oxford one, and the government has got their shit together, I don't see why we can't have all the oldies done in 3 months. We do them for flu without any real fuss or having to use loads of squaddies etc.

Ok, so best case by end of February we have all the "oldies" vaccinated. Then what? At what point are people allowed to see their friends and family?

Well i am under no illusions that it will be at least summer before we are restriction free.

But if granny and grandad has had it, you could have them meet up with members of a single other household at a time in March, rather than Christmas. So they can see the grandad kids etc.

That sounds right. I suspect nightclubs, karaoke bars, concerts, big sporting events, etc., will be suspended until next August / September.

But life, other than those, will probably be back by April.

dixiedean

OT. But in SPOTY/US news. Trump won bigly. Ronnie lost 9-7.
(Only legal frames counted).

SandyRentool

alex_ said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

Still, a bit of good news for the meat industry.

Are you referring to the vegan story or the dead dog story?

FrancisUrquhart

More magic money forest cullage....

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330642712354320384?s=19

Anabobazina

DavidL said:

Gallowgate said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

If we get the Oxford one, and the government has got their shit together, I don't see why we can't have all the oldies done in 3 months. We do them for flu without any real fuss or having to use loads of squaddies etc.

Ok, so best case by end of February we have all the "oldies" vaccinated. Then what? At what point are people allowed to see their friends and family?

It seems to me that once the vast majority of the vulnerable are inoculated the risk reward ratio will swing strongly and decisively in favour of removing any restraints on the economy. The risk for the under 60’s is just not high enough to destroy their jobs, education and future.

Absolutely spot on David - and this is the key point that many seem to be missing. Once you vaccinate the most vulnerable age groups, you cut out 90% of deaths. At that stage, the rest of us should be vigilant until we get the jab, but should nevertheless be allowed to go and live our lives.

HYUFD

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

Messaging.....

Yes the messaging is you cannot go to the pub unless to eat or get a takeaway and you can go back to the shops but only with a mask, most of those same shops rely on the Christmas sales for much of their annual revenue, without that they go bust and we end up with virtually no economy at all bar Amazon

Anabobazina

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

HYUFD

https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1330641145794277379?s=20

https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1330641505783083011?s=20

alex_

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

Messaging.....

Yes the messaging is you cannot go to the pub unless to eat or get a takeaway and you can go back to the shops but only with a mask, most of those same shops rely on the Christmas sales for much of their annual revenue, without that they go bust and we end up with virtually no economy at all bar Amazon

No that is the rules. Not the messaging.

FrancisUrquhart

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

Messaging.....

Yes the messaging is you cannot go to the pub unless to eat or get a takeaway and you can go back to the shops but only with a mask, most of those same shops rely on the Christmas sales for much of their annual revenue, without that they go bust and we end up with virtually no economy at all bar Amazon

No it isn't. The headlines are all rules relaxed for Christmas....people don't read the small print and as the media constantly remind us everything is too confusing.

Foxy

alex_ said:

Foxy said:

alex_ said:

Gallowgate said:

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

I would be very surprised if it's 6 months before the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

And what happens once most of the "vulnerable" people are vaccinated. What does that actually mean in terms of restrictions?

Life isn't going to go magically back to normal in January February time, is it? In that context, "allowing" people (they were going to do it anyway) to actually see friends and family inside over Christmas makes perfect sense.

One of the "leaks" was that you could get a "freedom pass" for two negative tests in a week. Where people are supposed to get these tests from...

These are the 20 min tests being piloted in Liverpool, and on the NHS from next week. I was signed up for it.

Who administers them?

Self testing. The accuracy isn't great.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1344617/uk-coronavirus-tests-DIY-test-antibody-testing-kits

Gallowgate

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

FrancisUrquhart

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

The Pfizer Covid vaccine could get the go-ahead in the UK even before the US authorises it, it has emerged, with hopes of a green light in as little as a week.

British regulators are about to start their formal appraisal of the jabs by US giant Pfizer and German firm BioNTech.

Government sources said that in “a best case scenario” a decision could be made in less than a week, with the NHS told to prepare to be ready to start administering jabs by December 1.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/22/pfizer-covid-vaccine-could-get-green-light-end-week/

Gallowgate

FrancisUrquhart said:

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

The Pfizer Covid vaccine could get the go-ahead in the UK even before the US authorises it, it has emerged, with hopes of a green light in as little as a week.

British regulators are about to start their formal appraisal of the jabs by US giant Pfizer and German firm BioNTech.

Government sources said that in “a best case scenario” a decision could be made in less than a week, with the NHS told to prepare to be ready to start administering jabs by December 1.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/22/pfizer-covid-vaccine-could-get-green-light-end-week/

I hope that is correct.

dixiedean

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

Messaging.....

Yes the messaging is you cannot go to the pub unless to eat or get a takeaway and you can go back to the shops but only with a mask, most of those same shops rely on the Christmas sales for much of their annual revenue, without that they go bust and we end up with virtually no economy at all bar Amazon

No it isn't. The headlines are all rules relaxed for Christmas....people don't read the small print and as the media constantly remind us everything is too confusing.

Course the government's message may be more measured. But it's already out there. Fill your boots.

Fishing

FrancisUrquhart said:

First...as in first to say we will be back in lockdown after stupid christmas relaxation policy.

I can't see the backbenchers wearing that - most only accepted the last one through gritted teeth, and no doubt feel done over because of the dodgy dossier by which it was justified.

Same with the Treasury.

Anabobazina

Could be a decent screw for pubs down here as you have to eat - I’ll do my duty and hit up a few decent gastropubs

alex_

Foxy said:

alex_ said:

Foxy said:

alex_ said:

Gallowgate said:

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

I would be very surprised if it's 6 months before the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

And what happens once most of the "vulnerable" people are vaccinated. What does that actually mean in terms of restrictions?

Life isn't going to go magically back to normal in January February time, is it? In that context, "allowing" people (they were going to do it anyway) to actually see friends and family inside over Christmas makes perfect sense.

One of the "leaks" was that you could get a "freedom pass" for two negative tests in a week. Where people are supposed to get these tests from...

These are the 20 min tests being piloted in Liverpool, and on the NHS from next week. I was signed up for it.

Who administers them?

Self testing. The accuracy isn't great.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1344617/uk-coronavirus-tests-DIY-test-antibody-testing-kits

So basically you get to self declare (by fiddling, sorry, 'accidentally misadminstering' the test) whether you are eligible for a "freedom pass" to live life normally. Yes i can't see any flaw in that idea...

Anabobazina said:

Could be a decent screw for pubs down here as you have to eat - I’ll do my duty and hit up a few decent gastropubs

I don't really get why one should be considered "safe" and the other not anyway. Why is it safe to drink with a meal but not without? Provided all the other stuff is in place (spaced tables, table service etc). And given that one of the dangers is time spent in a single venue, doesn't "eating substantial meals" actually potentially lengthen time in situ? I will often pop into pub for 45mins to an hour for "a quick pint". Much less safe than spending a couple of hours there eating.

FrancisUrquhart

Fishing said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

First...as in first to say we will be back in lockdown after stupid christmas relaxation policy.

I can't see the backbenchers wearing that - most only accepted the last one through gritted teeth, and no doubt feel done over because of the dodgy dossier by which it was justified.

Same with the Treasury.

Starmer will vote with the government.

Anabobazina

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

I think you are conflating the US timetable with the UK one?

HYUFD

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

Messaging.....

Yes the messaging is you cannot go to the pub unless to eat or get a takeaway and you can go back to the shops but only with a mask, most of those same shops rely on the Christmas sales for much of their annual revenue, without that they go bust and we end up with virtually no economy at all bar Amazon

No it isn't. The headlines are all rules relaxed for Christmas....people don't read the small print and as the media constantly remind us everything is too confusing.

So to confirm then, you want to destroy our entire retail sector by enforcing a full lockdown throughout the Christmas period leading to largescale shop and business closures and bankruptcies and mass unemployment next year

Anabobazina

Gallowgate said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

The Pfizer Covid vaccine could get the go-ahead in the UK even before the US authorises it, it has emerged, with hopes of a green light in as little as a week.

British regulators are about to start their formal appraisal of the jabs by US giant Pfizer and German firm BioNTech.

Government sources said that in “a best case scenario” a decision could be made in less than a week, with the NHS told to prepare to be ready to start administering jabs by December 1.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/22/pfizer-covid-vaccine-could-get-green-light-end-week/

I hope that is correct.

Apologies I see Francis has beat me to it.

Fishing

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

They vaccinate up to a million people a week during flu vaccination season.

Pulpstar

Mike is correct here, Betfair aren't playing to the rules they themselves have put forward in the market now.

FrancisUrquhart

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

Messaging.....

Yes the messaging is you cannot go to the pub unless to eat or get a takeaway and you can go back to the shops but only with a mask, most of those same shops rely on the Christmas sales for much of their annual revenue, without that they go bust and we end up with virtually no economy at all bar Amazon

No it isn't. The headlines are all rules relaxed for Christmas....people don't read the small print and as the media constantly remind us everything is too confusing.

So to confirm then, you want to destroy our entire retail sector by enforcing a full lockdown throughout the Christmas period leading to mass unemployment next year

FFS...messaging....the messaging...it should be we are nearly through this, Granny Brenda will be safe in a few weeks, but covid is with us, its still as deadly as ever, lets still be very careful. Please limit your contact with others over Christmas. If we all go mad, we will have to lockdown again in the spring.

solarflare

rcs1000 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Gallowgate said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

If we get the Oxford one, and the government has got their shit together, I don't see why we can't have all the oldies done in 3 months. We do them for flu without any real fuss or having to use loads of squaddies etc.

Ok, so best case by end of February we have all the "oldies" vaccinated. Then what? At what point are people allowed to see their friends and family?

Well i am under no illusions that it will be at least summer before we are restriction free.

But if granny and grandad has had it, you could have them meet up with members of a single other household at a time in March, rather than Christmas. So they can see the grandad kids etc.

That sounds right. I suspect nightclubs, karaoke bars, concerts, big sporting events, etc., will be suspended until next August / September.

But life, other than those, will probably be back by April.

Seems a bit too much of a dichotomy there for me.

If life is largely back to normal by April I can't see any reason why those events you've listed couldn't at least be operating under the sort of covid-safe restrictions hospitality have been operating at since for ever now.

Foxy

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

The logistics don't care which vaccine is approved. It is pretty much the same for all.

Fishing

FrancisUrquhart said:

Fishing said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

First...as in first to say we will be back in lockdown after stupid christmas relaxation policy.

I can't see the backbenchers wearing that - most only accepted the last one through gritted teeth, and no doubt feel done over because of the dodgy dossier by which it was justified.

Same with the Treasury.

Starmer will vote with the government.

Maybe but it would be so embarassing for the government to rely on Labour votes that it might not want to bring the motion. And there's always a possibility he'd see sense too.

I'm optimistic that Boris won't want to go into a third lockdown either. And if he does hopefully he'll want evidence that doesn't fall apart the moment it's put under even cursory scrutiny.

Gallowgate

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

I think you are conflating the US timetable with the UK one?

I am, but under the assumption that we aren't going to be too out of step. Even if we start administering jabs on 1st December under the "best case scenario", that only gives 4 weeks until the end of the year. Do you really think the logistics are going to be sorted that quickly? Is there enough stock of the vaccine in the country to be doing 100k a week?

What about the potential horror show of the FDA not approving the vaccine, or delaying the approval, causing people here to become hesitant to get the jab?

alex_

Anabobazina said:

Could be a decent screw for pubs down here as you have to eat - I’ll do my duty and hit up a few decent gastropubs

I don't really get why one should be considered "safe" and the other not anyway. Why is it safe to drink with a meal but not without? Provided all the other stuff is in place (spaced tables, table service etc). And given that one of the dangers is time spent in a single venue, doesn't "eating substantial meals" actually potentially lengthen time in situ? I will often pop into pub for 45mins to an hour for "a quick pint". Much less safe than spending a couple of hours there eating.

Wulfrun_Phil

Foxy said:

alex_ said:

Foxy said:

alex_ said:

Gallowgate said:

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

I would be very surprised if it's 6 months before the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

And what happens once most of the "vulnerable" people are vaccinated. What does that actually mean in terms of restrictions?

Life isn't going to go magically back to normal in January February time, is it? In that context, "allowing" people (they were going to do it anyway) to actually see friends and family inside over Christmas makes perfect sense.

One of the "leaks" was that you could get a "freedom pass" for two negative tests in a week. Where people are supposed to get these tests from...

These are the 20 min tests being piloted in Liverpool, and on the NHS from next week. I was signed up for it.

Who administers them?

Self testing. The accuracy isn't great.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1344617/uk-coronavirus-tests-DIY-test-antibody-testing-kits

I appreciate that this might well be an unusual exception, but please don't quote the Express as a reliable source for anything. The general rule is that if you read it in the Express, it's usually utter b*****cks.

A case in point from today's edition, on a sensitive matter about which I've been in mourning for two months.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1363023/Diogo-Jota-Liverpool-transfer-news-Anfield-Jurgen-Klopp-Premier-League

"Diogo Jota tipped for shock Liverpool transfer exit after impressive start at Anfield"

solarflare

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

I think you are conflating the US timetable with the UK one?

I am, but under the assumption that we aren't going to be too out of step. Even if we start administering jabs on 1st December under the "best case scenario", that only gives 4 weeks until the end of the year. Do you really think the logistics are going to be sorted that quickly? Is there enough stock of the vaccine in the country to be doing 100k a week?

What about the potential horror show of the FDA not approving the vaccine, or delaying the approval, causing people here to become hesitant to get the jab?

It's basically 3 weeks at that, given the Christmas period will inevitably get heavily in the way anyway.

Gallowgate

I really hope you optimists are right that we're going to execute the vaccination program perfectly.

Just based on the track record...

HYUFD

Fishing said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Fishing said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

First...as in first to say we will be back in lockdown after stupid christmas relaxation policy.

I can't see the backbenchers wearing that - most only accepted the last one through gritted teeth, and no doubt feel done over because of the dodgy dossier by which it was justified.

Same with the Treasury.

Starmer will vote with the government.

Maybe but it would be so embarassing for the government to rely on Labour votes that it might not want to bring the motion. And there's always a possibility he'd see sense too.

I'm optimistic that Boris won't want to go into a third lockdown either. And if he does hopefully he'll want evidence that doesn't fall apart the moment it's put under even cursory scrutiny.

Boris will only go into a third lockdown if we do not yet have a vaccine if the polls show most voters want one and crucially most Tory voters would accept one

HYUFD

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

Messaging.....

Yes the messaging is you cannot go to the pub unless to eat or get a takeaway and you can go back to the shops but only with a mask, most of those same shops rely on the Christmas sales for much of their annual revenue, without that they go bust and we end up with virtually no economy at all bar Amazon

No it isn't. The headlines are all rules relaxed for Christmas....people don't read the small print and as the media constantly remind us everything is too confusing.

So to confirm then, you want to destroy our entire retail sector by enforcing a full lockdown throughout the Christmas period leading to mass unemployment next year

FFS...messaging....the messaging...it should be we are nearly through this, Granny Brenda will be safe in a few weeks, but covid is with us, its still as deadly as ever, lets still be very careful. Please limit your contact with others over Christmas. If we all go mad, we will have to lockdown again in the spring.

So to confirm then you would indeed destroy our retail sector by preventing them benefiting from Christmas shopping which is the only thing many of our local shopowners are counting on to stop them going bust next year.

(The government have of course said Pubs will only be open for takeaways in Tier 3 and are limiting the number of households that can meet together over the Christmas period).

alex_

Lol. Her conspiracy theories are too much even for the other Trump lawyers to associate with.

https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1330640804004638721

RobD

Gallowgate said:

I really hope you optimists are right that we're going to execute the vaccination program perfectly.

Just based on the track record...

There's a vaccine program ever year that reaches tens of millions.

Gallowgate

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

I really hope you optimists are right that we're going to execute the vaccination program perfectly.

Just based on the track record...

There's a vaccine program ever year that reaches tens of millions.

And how long does it take to plan and organise?

FrancisUrquhart

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

Messaging.....

Yes the messaging is you cannot go to the pub unless to eat or get a takeaway and you can go back to the shops but only with a mask, most of those same shops rely on the Christmas sales for much of their annual revenue, without that they go bust and we end up with virtually no economy at all bar Amazon

No it isn't. The headlines are all rules relaxed for Christmas....people don't read the small print and as the media constantly remind us everything is too confusing.

So to confirm then, you want to destroy our entire retail sector by enforcing a full lockdown throughout the Christmas period leading to mass unemployment next year

FFS...messaging....the messaging...it should be we are nearly through this, Granny Brenda will be safe in a few weeks, but covid is with us, its still as deadly as ever, lets still be very careful. Please limit your contact with others over Christmas. If we all go mad, we will have to lockdown again in the spring.

So to confirm then you would indeed destroy our retail sector by preventing them benefiting from Christmas shopping which is the only thing many of our local shopowners are counting on to stop them going bust next year.

(The government have of course said Pubs will only be open for takeaways in Tier 3 and are limiting the number of households that can meet together over the Christmas period).

I give up. The newspaper headlines / front pages are filled with Christmas is saved, you have meet up with friends, go mad at the shopping centres, but this is for a limited window, so make sure you fill your boots while you can.

That is what people will see and hear and react accordingly. It is totally the wrong message at a time when we are just starting to see cases come under control and we are 2-3 months away from the the vulnerable being safe.

ManchesterKurt

Gallowgate said:

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

I really hope you optimists are right that we're going to execute the vaccination program perfectly.

Just based on the track record...

There's a vaccine program ever year that reaches tens of millions.

And how long does it take to plan and organise?

Surely it's just a repeated exercise each year, one that C-19 can repeat in the next few months???

SandyRentool

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

Messaging.....

Yes the messaging is you cannot go to the pub unless to eat or get a takeaway and you can go back to the shops but only with a mask, most of those same shops rely on the Christmas sales for much of their annual revenue, without that they go bust and we end up with virtually no economy at all bar Amazon

No it isn't. The headlines are all rules relaxed for Christmas....people don't read the small print and as the media constantly remind us everything is too confusing.

So to confirm then, you want to destroy our entire retail sector by enforcing a full lockdown throughout the Christmas period leading to largescale shop and business closures and bankruptcies and mass unemployment next year

The Christmas blowout is going to lead to a full-on lockdown in January anyway. Same result but with more funerals.

Night all.

justin124

So pubs that do not do food are going to remain closed!

Anabobazina

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

I think you are conflating the US timetable with the UK one?

I am, but under the assumption that we aren't going to be too out of step. Even if we start administering jabs on 1st December under the "best case scenario", that only gives 4 weeks until the end of the year. Do you really think the logistics are going to be sorted that quickly? Is there enough stock of the vaccine in the country to be doing 100k a week?

What about the potential horror show of the FDA not approving the vaccine, or delaying the approval, causing people here to become hesitant to get the jab?

I’m not predicting 100k a week this side of Christmas! Why do you think the FDA would fail to approve it? There’s been no meaningful side effects in the trial cohort (unless you count a day feeling mildly hungover?)

Gallowgate

ManchesterKurt said:

Gallowgate said:

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

I really hope you optimists are right that we're going to execute the vaccination program perfectly.

Just based on the track record...

There's a vaccine program ever year that reaches tens of millions.

And how long does it take to plan and organise?

Surely it's just a repeated exercise each year, one that C-19 can repeat in the next few months???

But it needs to be done for everyone. And crucially it needs to be done incredibly quickly, and people need to be able to produce proof that they've had it.

People are going to be falling over themselves to get the C-19 jab. Phone lines and online systems will be inundated. This isn't going to be a simple case of "repeat the flu jab procedure".

alex_

justin124 said:

So pubs that do not do food are going to remain closed!

Presumably includes House of Commons bars...

HYUFD

https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1330648818531102723?s=20

https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1330648821207019520?s=20

Anabobazina

justin124 said:

So pubs that do not do food are going to remain closed!

They are very rare beasts, at least down here. Many up north?

Gallowgate

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

I think you are conflating the US timetable with the UK one?

I am, but under the assumption that we aren't going to be too out of step. Even if we start administering jabs on 1st December under the "best case scenario", that only gives 4 weeks until the end of the year. Do you really think the logistics are going to be sorted that quickly? Is there enough stock of the vaccine in the country to be doing 100k a week?

What about the potential horror show of the FDA not approving the vaccine, or delaying the approval, causing people here to become hesitant to get the jab?

I’m not predicting 100k a week this side of Christmas! Why do you think the FDA would fail to approve it? There’s been no meaningful side effects in the trial cohort (unless you count a day feeling mildly hungover?)

@rcs1000 was predicting 100k a week this side of Christmas.

I don't think the FDA will fail to approve it, but they might?

Anabobazina

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

I really hope you optimists are right that we're going to execute the vaccination program perfectly.

Just based on the track record...

There's a vaccine program ever year that reaches tens of millions.

programme

🙂

Gallowgate

I can't even telephone my GP at the best of times. What makes people think GPs will be able to handle demand for the C-19 vaccine? Some people aren't even registered with a GP.

Will it be done centrally? If so, isn't that a different system to the flu vaccine one?

HYUFD

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

Messaging.....

Yes the messaging is you cannot go to the pub unless to eat or get a takeaway and you can go back to the shops but only with a mask, most of those same shops rely on the Christmas sales for much of their annual revenue, without that they go bust and we end up with virtually no economy at all bar Amazon

No it isn't. The headlines are all rules relaxed for Christmas....people don't read the small print and as the media constantly remind us everything is too confusing.

So to confirm then, you want to destroy our entire retail sector by enforcing a full lockdown throughout the Christmas period leading to largescale shop and business closures and bankruptcies and mass unemployment next year

The Christmas blowout is going to lead to a full-on lockdown in January anyway. Same result but with more funerals.

Night all.

The Christmas shopping season makes more money for retailers than half the rest of the year combined, so no

Fishing

Question - does anybody know of a list online of the lawsuits filed over Brexit since the referendum by Miller, Maugham and others? I was idly wondering how many there were.

FrancisUrquhart

Gallowgate said:

I can't even telephone my GP at the best of times. What makes people think GPs will be able to handle demand for the C-19 vaccine? Some people aren't even registered with a GP.

Will it be done centrally? If so, isn't that a different system to the flu vaccine one?

You don't book a covid test by phoning your GP....and we do 350k a day of those now. And we managed to get millions of food boxes out to oldies every week in the spring with no fuss, simple letter and there was a website if you needed to make changes. And there was the odd claim of somebody missing out, but the vast vast majority of were catered for. That was based upon government records and supplemented by GPs telling the government about vulnerable people who were missed.

I am not saying it will all go smoothly, but it shouldn't be impossible if well organized and not everything the government has done during COVID has been a shit show.

Andy_JS

Paul Joseph Watson's latest video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQxaGm7eK4U

justin124

Anabobazina said:

justin124 said:

So pubs that do not do food are going to remain closed!

They are very rare beasts, at least down here. Many up north?

Not true at all here in Norwich. I use three pubs regularly - none of them serve food.

ManchesterKurt

Gallowgate said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Gallowgate said:

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

I really hope you optimists are right that we're going to execute the vaccination program perfectly.

Just based on the track record...

There's a vaccine program ever year that reaches tens of millions.

And how long does it take to plan and organise?

Surely it's just a repeated exercise each year, one that C-19 can repeat in the next few months???

But it needs to be done for everyone. And crucially it needs to be done incredibly quickly, and people need to be able to produce proof that they've had it.

People are going to be falling over themselves to get the C-19 jab. Phone lines and online systems will be inundated. This isn't going to be a simple case of "repeat the flu jab procedure".

They will just send out letters/emails/texts to the most vulnerable first exactly as they do for the flu

This year I had an appointment one Tuesday morning at 09:27 for the flu jab and my wife had the 09:28 appointment, there were hundreds of appointments all through one week in October, literally every minute,

The process exists, they will simply repeat that exercise initially and roll it out group by group.

People can call all they like, won't slow down the jabs going in the arms of those contacted to have the jab though.

HYUFD

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FFS....the messaging is all wrong...go mad at the shops...this is a f##king disaster.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330638881830678529?s=19

No, you will still have to wear facemasks in shops and you will not be able to go to pubs or restaurants to eat in if in Tier 3 over the Christmas period only to get a takeaway and you will not be able to go just to have a drink without food in Tier 2 either

Messaging.....

Yes the messaging is you cannot go to the pub unless to eat or get a takeaway and you can go back to the shops but only with a mask, most of those same shops rely on the Christmas sales for much of their annual revenue, without that they go bust and we end up with virtually no economy at all bar Amazon

No it isn't. The headlines are all rules relaxed for Christmas....people don't read the small print and as the media constantly remind us everything is too confusing.

So to confirm then, you want to destroy our entire retail sector by enforcing a full lockdown throughout the Christmas period leading to mass unemployment next year

FFS...messaging....the messaging...it should be we are nearly through this, Granny Brenda will be safe in a few weeks, but covid is with us, its still as deadly as ever, lets still be very careful. Please limit your contact with others over Christmas. If we all go mad, we will have to lockdown again in the spring.

So to confirm then you would indeed destroy our retail sector by preventing them benefiting from Christmas shopping which is the only thing many of our local shopowners are counting on to stop them going bust next year.

(The government have of course said Pubs will only be open for takeaways in Tier 3 and are limiting the number of households that can meet together over the Christmas period).

I give up. The newspaper headlines / front pages are filled with Christmas is saved, you have meet up with friends, go mad at the shopping centres, but this is for a limited window, so make sure you fill your boots while you can.

That is what people will see and hear and react accordingly. It is totally the wrong message at a time when we are just starting to see cases come under control and we are 2-3 months away from the the vulnerable being safe.

So thanks for your final confirmation you would indeed destroy our retail sector by depriving them of the revenues from their most profitable period of the year

Benpointer

alex_ said:

Lol. Her conspiracy theories are too much even for the other Trump lawyers to associate with.

https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1330640804004638721

Haha, it's a slo-mo implosion isn't it?

Gallowgate

FrancisUrquhart said:

Gallowgate said:

I can't even telephone my GP at the best of times. What makes people think GPs will be able to handle demand for the C-19 vaccine? Some people aren't even registered with a GP.

Will it be done centrally? If so, isn't that a different system to the flu vaccine one?

You don't book a covid test by phoning your GP....and we do 350k a day of those now.

That's what I'm saying. If it's done centrally, then that's a different system to the flu vaccine and not a good comparison or an exact replication.

How long did it take us to ramp up to 350k a day COVID tests?

I'm just doubting people's premise that this is going to go smoothly...

Benpointer

Anabobazina said:

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

I really hope you optimists are right that we're going to execute the vaccination program perfectly.

Just based on the track record...

There's a vaccine program ever year that reaches tens of millions.

programme

🙂

There's probably a vaccine program too tbf.

Benpointer

Foxy said:

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

The logistics don't care which vaccine is approved. It is pretty much the same for all.

Does the storage temperature requirement not determine a factor of complexity @Foxy?

ManchesterKurt

Benpointer said:

Foxy said:

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

The logistics don't care which vaccine is approved. It is pretty much the same for all.

Foxy said:

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

The logistics don't care which vaccine is approved. It is pretty much the same for all.

Does the storage temperature requirement not determine a factor of complexity @Foxy?

The vaccine can last a week at normal freezer temps

Should not take that long to get from storage into someone's arm.

Anabobazina

solarflare said:

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

Gallowgate said:

As I was saying in the previous thread, how "close" do some of you think this vaccine actually is?

Based on the timetable @TheScreamingEagles speculated last week, we're talking 6 months+.

It's not a "matter of weeks" before we have all vulnerable people vaccinated.

I feel expectations need to be seriously managed.

Don't forget that R comes down with the number vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we were giving 100,000 people a week a jab by the end of the year, and 1m by the end of January.

While the vaccine programme will likely continue until next autumn, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest restrictions were removed by Easter.

I would love that to be the case, but is that realistic? That suggests a slick logistic operation. I'm not holding my breath. There's only 6 weeks until the end of the year and none of the vaccines are even approved yet.

The Pfizer vaccine will be approved PDQ I think.

Their emergency approval request will be considered on the 10th December. That leaves 3 weeks until the end of 2020. So how on earth will we be vaccinating 100,000 people per week by the end of those 3 weeks?

I think you are conflating the US timetable with the UK one?

I am, but under the assumption that we aren't going to be too out of step. Even if we start administering jabs on 1st December under the "best case scenario", that only gives 4 weeks until the end of the year. Do you really think the logistics are going to be sorted that quickly? Is there enough stock of the vaccine in the country to be doing 100k a week?

What about the potential horror show of the FDA not approving the vaccine, or delaying the approval, causing people here to become hesitant to get the jab?

It's basically 3 weeks at that, given the Christmas period will inevitably get heavily in the way anyway.

We should be vaccinating on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, Christmas Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday. We should be vaccinating on New Year’s Eve and New Year’s Day. Pay nurses quadruple time plus bonus, get it done.