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If news of this vaccine had come a fortnight earlier Trump might just have held on – politicalbettin

135

Comments

  • Roy_G_Biv said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    MrEd said:

    TOPPING said:

    Laugh-out-loud comedy from Owen Jones here:

    https://twitter.com/0Iangardner2/status/1328275383406514176

    He should have closed his Ocado tab before filming. Not 100% great for his man of the people schtick.
    He also seems to have a fairly large office for a man of the people.
    Do you have to be poor to be a man of the people?
    Only if you are on the left
    You've noticed then.

    If you're poor it's the politics of envy.
    If you're rich it's champagne socialist hypocrisy.
    And if you speak up on anything it's virtue signalling.

    Such is the burden of the Left.

    The only acceptable example of the breed is neither poor nor rich and you wouldn't know their views anyway because they keep their head down and their trap shut.
    Yes, although it does go the other way, to some extent, as well. The Labour attacks on Sunak's wealth weren't that joyous to witness.
    That video? Bit tawdry that. Although his Hedge Fund background is imo a valid thing to home in on. Generally speaking, a person's political views should be taken at face value and in good faith unless there is good reason not to - and their personal finances do not supply such a reason. I do think the Right try to "police" the Left in this tedious regard more than the Left do the Right.
    I agree. It seems to be a trait, commoner on the right, to judge the worth of someone's opinions on the basis of their perceived status.
    The left have their own cognitive biases, as do liberals like me, and everyone else too.

    We should have a directory of standard arguments and counter-arguments, like a Batsford Chess Openings, just to skip the boring stuff:
    Opening code 001: The champagne socialist gambit, charity variation
    1a Look at his house! Champagne socialist!
    1b But his ideas though
    2a why doesn't he give up his own money instead of coming after mine?
    2b because he knows government help is the only way to ensure selfish rich people d...
    3a oh I'm selfish am I? I give to {list of charities}
    3b all very noble, but {some billionaire} does nothing, why does he need all that money when there are chil...
    4a you sound envious
    4b it's not that at all, it's just that...
    etc.

    Then instead of having the argument, someone can just say "001" and we can assume that everyone is suitably convinced that the other person is evil and or stupid and we can argue about something different instead.
    'It seems to be a trait, commoner on the right, to judge the worth of someone's opinions on the basis of their perceived status.'

    Really? 'White privilege' says hello.
    Oh, I meant status as in wealth, fame, power.
    You're right about "your" reading of status. My fault for not being clearer.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    In fairness, many (most?) Chinese can't swim. It really is a remarkable feature of their culture.
    Here. You might drown, so pretty much everyone learns to swim as a child.
    There. You might drown, so don't go near the water.
    I found the same among Ghanians & other West Africans. Though there it seems to be especially the sea.
    Anywhere in Africa there is the powerful crocodile disincentive to get in to any body of fresh water.
    I may be wrong, but aren't crocs saltwater dwellers, and gators freshwater?
    There are freshwater crocs everywhere in Africa. Salties confined to Australia afaik.
    I think that is right - the fear, as it has been expressed to me, is that water (especially the sea) is dangerous and unpredictable *of itself*.
    It is!
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    IshmaelZ said:

    Do you think punters will have a "preferred" vaccine? Are we going to have cases of people refusing the "Pfizer vaccine" because they've read something on the internet, and want the "Moderna" one instead?

    Yes. Me, for starters, if it appears one or the other has such an edge that insisting on it is worth the hassle. I make many or most decisions these days because I've read something on the internet. What do you do?
    I never inject anything without checking the reviews on tripadvisor first.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,223
    dixiedean said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    In fairness, many (most?) Chinese can't swim. It really is a remarkable feature of their culture.
    Here. You might drown, so pretty much everyone learns to swim as a child.
    There. You might drown, so don't go near the water.
    And then their female team of swimmers suddenly swept the board at the Olympics. The obvious reason turned out to be the reason.
  • dixiedean said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    In fairness, many (most?) Chinese can't swim. It really is a remarkable feature of their culture.
    Here. You might drown, so pretty much everyone learns to swim as a child.
    There. You might drown, so don't go near the water.
    I found the same among Ghanians & other West Africans. Though there it seems to be especially the sea.
    Wasn't the RNLI getting pelters recently for allocating a substantial amount annually to swimming programmes in Africa?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    MrEd said:

    TOPPING said:

    Laugh-out-loud comedy from Owen Jones here:

    https://twitter.com/0Iangardner2/status/1328275383406514176

    He should have closed his Ocado tab before filming. Not 100% great for his man of the people schtick.
    He also seems to have a fairly large office for a man of the people.
    Do you have to be poor to be a man of the people?
    Only if you are on the left
    You've noticed then.

    If you're poor it's the politics of envy.
    If you're rich it's champagne socialist hypocrisy.
    And if you speak up on anything it's virtue signalling.

    Such is the burden of the Left.

    The only acceptable example of the breed is neither poor nor rich and you wouldn't know their views anyway because they keep their head down and their trap shut.
    Yes, although it does go the other way, to some extent, as well. The Labour attacks on Sunak's wealth weren't that joyous to witness.
    That video? Bit tawdry that. Although his Hedge Fund background is imo a valid thing to home in on. Generally speaking, a person's political views should be taken at face value and in good faith unless there is good reason not to - and their personal finances do not supply such a reason. I do think the Right try to "police" the Left in this tedious regard more than the Left do the Right.
    I agree. It seems to be a trait, commoner on the right, to judge the worth of someone's opinions on the basis of their perceived status.
    The left have their own cognitive biases, as do liberals like me, and everyone else too.

    We should have a directory of standard arguments and counter-arguments, like a Batsford Chess Openings, just to skip the boring stuff:
    Opening code 001: The champagne socialist gambit, charity variation
    1a Look at his house! Champagne socialist!
    1b But his ideas though
    2a why doesn't he give up his own money instead of coming after mine?
    2b because he knows government help is the only way to ensure selfish rich people d...
    3a oh I'm selfish am I? I give to {list of charities}
    3b all very noble, but {some billionaire} does nothing, why does he need all that money when there are chil...
    4a you sound envious
    4b it's not that at all, it's just that...
    etc.

    Then instead of having the argument, someone can just say "001" and we can assume that everyone is suitably convinced that the other person is evil and or stupid and we can argue about something different instead.
    'It seems to be a trait, commoner on the right, to judge the worth of someone's opinions on the basis of their perceived status.'

    Really? 'White privilege' says hello.
    Oh, I meant status as in wealth, fame, power.
    You're right about "your" reading of status. My fault for not being clearer.
    Ah, of course. Because the left never discounts the opinions of those who have money, were educated at elite institutions, or occupy positions of influence. Your argument is nonsensical however you choose to define 'status'.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364

    IshmaelZ said:

    Do you think punters will have a "preferred" vaccine? Are we going to have cases of people refusing the "Pfizer vaccine" because they've read something on the internet, and want the "Moderna" one instead?

    Yes. Me, for starters, if it appears one or the other has such an edge that insisting on it is worth the hassle. I make many or most decisions these days because I've read something on the internet. What do you do?
    I never inject anything without checking the reviews on tripadvisor first.
    Danny : You have done something to your brain. You have made it high. If I lay 10 mils of diazepam on you, it will do something else to your brain. You will make it low. Why trust one drug and not the other? That's politics, innit?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Do you think punters will have a "preferred" vaccine? Are we going to have cases of people refusing the "Pfizer vaccine" because they've read something on the internet, and want the "Moderna" one instead?

    Yes. Me, for starters, if it appears one or the other has such an edge that insisting on it is worth the hassle. I make many or most decisions these days because I've read something on the internet. What do you do?
    I never inject anything without checking the reviews on tripadvisor first.
    erowid for me.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    In fairness, many (most?) Chinese can't swim. It really is a remarkable feature of their culture.
    Here. You might drown, so pretty much everyone learns to swim as a child.
    There. You might drown, so don't go near the water.
    And then their female team of swimmers suddenly swept the board at the Olympics. The obvious reason turned out to be the reason.
    Indeed. There is the persistent belief in Shui Gwei. Water ghosts who will drag you under and exchange bodies with you. Like a changeling. That, and Mao heavily promoting swimming for health means that not going in the water at all is default.
    Used to be most frustrating at the beach when lifeguards would panic if I went past my knees.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,223
    IshmaelZ said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    In fairness, many (most?) Chinese can't swim. It really is a remarkable feature of their culture.
    Here. You might drown, so pretty much everyone learns to swim as a child.
    There. You might drown, so don't go near the water.
    I found the same among Ghanians & other West Africans. Though there it seems to be especially the sea.
    Anywhere in Africa there is the powerful crocodile disincentive to get in to any body of fresh water.
    I may be wrong, but aren't crocs saltwater dwellers, and gators freshwater?
    There are freshwater crocs everywhere in Africa. Salties confined to Australia afaik.
    I once came within a few metres of the world's largest known crocodile. And it survived in one piece.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998
    edited November 2020

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    MrEd said:

    TOPPING said:

    Laugh-out-loud comedy from Owen Jones here:

    https://twitter.com/0Iangardner2/status/1328275383406514176

    He should have closed his Ocado tab before filming. Not 100% great for his man of the people schtick.
    He also seems to have a fairly large office for a man of the people.
    Do you have to be poor to be a man of the people?
    Only if you are on the left
    You've noticed then.

    If you're poor it's the politics of envy.
    If you're rich it's champagne socialist hypocrisy.
    And if you speak up on anything it's virtue signalling.

    Such is the burden of the Left.

    The only acceptable example of the breed is neither poor nor rich and you wouldn't know their views anyway because they keep their head down and their trap shut.
    Yes, although it does go the other way, to some extent, as well. The Labour attacks on Sunak's wealth weren't that joyous to witness.
    That video? Bit tawdry that. Although his Hedge Fund background is imo a valid thing to home in on. Generally speaking, a person's political views should be taken at face value and in good faith unless there is good reason not to - and their personal finances do not supply such a reason. I do think the Right try to "police" the Left in this tedious regard more than the Left do the Right.
    I agree. It seems to be a trait, commoner on the right, to judge the worth of someone's opinions on the basis of their perceived status.
    The left have their own cognitive biases, as do liberals like me, and everyone else too.

    We should have a directory of standard arguments and counter-arguments, like a Batsford Chess Openings, just to skip the boring stuff:
    Opening code 001: The champagne socialist gambit, charity variation
    1a Look at his house! Champagne socialist!
    1b But his ideas though
    2a why doesn't he give up his own money instead of coming after mine?
    2b because he knows government help is the only way to ensure selfish rich people d...
    3a oh I'm selfish am I? I give to {list of charities}
    3b all very noble, but {some billionaire} does nothing, why does he need all that money when there are chil...
    4a you sound envious
    4b it's not that at all, it's just that...
    etc.

    Then instead of having the argument, someone can just say "001" and we can assume that everyone is suitably convinced that the other person is evil and or stupid and we can argue about something different instead.
    'It seems to be a trait, commoner on the right, to judge the worth of someone's opinions on the basis of their perceived status.'

    Really? 'White privilege' says hello.
    Oh, I meant status as in wealth, fame, power.
    You're right about "your" reading of status. My fault for not being clearer.
    Ah, of course. Because the left never discounts the opinions of those who have money, were educated at elite institutions, or occupy positions of influence. Your argument is nonsensical however you choose to define 'status'.
    Oh do fuck off

    EDIT
    I mean, it's right there above:
    "Yes, although it does go the other way, to some extent, as well. The Labour attacks on Sunak's wealth weren't that joyous to witness."

    Now carry on fucking off.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,223
    Roger said:

    Just noticed Rishi Sunak has taken to imitating his boss. The breathy enthusiasm you get from a dog after a run. Unfortunately as with Johnson it just looks fake.

    I get quite strong Blair if I close my eyes.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    IshmaelZ said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    The phenomenon of people milling about until someone acts - which crystallises the actions of the rest - is a an interesting piece of human behaviour.
    Taking out your phone and videoing this is an interesting reaction to the situation, though.
    Very, very common.
    The Kitty Genovese phenomenon. The more people around, the less likely any one individual is to intervene with the required help.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Just noticed Rishi Sunak has taken to imitating his boss. The breathy enthusiasm you get from a dog after a run. Unfortunately as with Johnson it just looks fake.

    I get quite strong Blair if I close my eyes.
    The man or the policies?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,223
    Andy_JS said:

    "Why we need populism
    It kicks in when our democracies become too remote and detached from the people
    BY MATTHEW GOODWIN"

    https://unherd.com/2020/11/populism-isnt-dead-yet/

    Yes. But I wish it would have a word rather than kicking in.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Carnyx said:
    The questions they are asking, while valid, are the wrong ones.
    How did Slovakia make it work ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,100
    edited November 2020
    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    In fairness, many (most?) Chinese can't swim. It really is a remarkable feature of their culture.
    Here. You might drown, so pretty much everyone learns to swim as a child.
    There. You might drown, so don't go near the water.
    I found the same among Ghanians & other West Africans. Though there it seems to be especially the sea.
    Anywhere in Africa there is the powerful crocodile disincentive to get in to any body of fresh water.
    I may be wrong, but aren't crocs saltwater dwellers, and gators freshwater?
    There are freshwater crocs everywhere in Africa. Salties confined to Australia afaik.
    I once came within a few metres of the world's largest known crocodile. And it survived in one piece.
    :lol:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    MaxPB said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    MaxPB said:

    EU yet to order any Moderna vaccine:

    The European commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, has said her officials have concluded exploratory talks with Moderna, writes Daniel Boffey, the Guardian’s Brussels bureau chief.

    Von der Leyen said:

    We hope to finalise the contract soon. We do not know at this stage which vaccines will end up being safe and effective. The European Medicines Agency will authorise them only after a robust assessment. And this is why we need to have a broad portfolio of vaccines based on very different technologies in parallel.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/nov/16/coronavirus-live-news-us-confirms-1m-cases-in-a-week-boris-johnson-selfisolating

    Wait so Peston was peddling fake news earlier which our own twatter in chief reposted with no research?!
    "The commission has a potential purchase agreement for 80m doses with Moderna with an option to double that amount."
    And yet nothing has been signed. Just like with Pfizer. Nothing has been signed. I don't understand what the EU are waiting for, it's legitimately starting to worry me that they are letting financial prudence get in the way of speed and while the UK and US will be most of the way through a vaccine programme by the middle of 2021 they will just be starting out in a lot of Europe where side deals haven't been done. I'm actually genuinely concerned about it because we need Europe to get on top of this as well.
    They have signed with Pfizer (now), haven't they?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    This is a good story (if you click through to the link) which neatly illustrates why any government’s claim to having ‘developed’ the vaccine on their watch is just silly.
    (This research goes back to 2008.)
    https://twitter.com/RLCscienceboss/status/1328396325650567168
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    Laugh-out-loud comedy from Owen Jones here:

    twitter.com/0Iangardner2/status/1328275383406514176

    Why have the Guardian shuttered his original YouTube stuff?

    His videos so far on his YouTube channel are getting piss poor number of views. Somebody with so many social media followers and national newspaper column should really be able to get more than a few 1000 views per video, when things like a bearded man doing food challenges can get 500k per video and even a man teaching the French, English swear words, to use against the French government for messing up COVID response does more views.
    Traditional media seems to struggle to get large numbers of online viewers on the likes of YouTube, whereas there are some online-only or online-first creators who get huge numbers of viewers. And they aren't shoddy operations any more, they have some impressive fliming setups, with huge rented warehouses used as studios, and lots of technical support. You have gamers, people doing stunts and tricks, people doing reviews and the like, getting millions of views per video, far more than their traditional competitors, and they receive lots of sponsorship and advertising.
    When I did a YouTube channel it was incredibly volatile / random.

    I'd do a video I thought was amazing, and get 2,000 views. Then I'd do one which I thought was "meh", and it would get 200,000.

    Basically, you either trigger the YouTube algorithm (one way or another) and it surfaces your video to people who might like t, or you don't and only your subscrbers ever see it.

    How to end Illegal Immigration: 221k views
    The Future's Bright, The Future's Not Coal: 201k views
    What a $400 Hotel Room Tells Us About the Price of Oil*: 67k views
    What Causes Trade Deficits: 19k views
    Italy: 50 Ways To Leave the Euro: 5k views

    I guess I should feel smug that my videos are more popular than Owen Jones.

    * That was probably my best video
    Why did you stop?
    Because I started an auto insurance business.

    Basically, I'm a pretty entrepreneurial guy. Making YouTube videos was fun, but it was a job rather than building something bigger.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,100
    edited November 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    MaxPB said:

    EU yet to order any Moderna vaccine:

    The European commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, has said her officials have concluded exploratory talks with Moderna, writes Daniel Boffey, the Guardian’s Brussels bureau chief.

    Von der Leyen said:

    We hope to finalise the contract soon. We do not know at this stage which vaccines will end up being safe and effective. The European Medicines Agency will authorise them only after a robust assessment. And this is why we need to have a broad portfolio of vaccines based on very different technologies in parallel.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/nov/16/coronavirus-live-news-us-confirms-1m-cases-in-a-week-boris-johnson-selfisolating

    Wait so Peston was peddling fake news earlier which our own twatter in chief reposted with no research?!
    "The commission has a potential purchase agreement for 80m doses with Moderna with an option to double that amount."
    And yet nothing has been signed. Just like with Pfizer. Nothing has been signed. I don't understand what the EU are waiting for, it's legitimately starting to worry me that they are letting financial prudence get in the way of speed and while the UK and US will be most of the way through a vaccine programme by the middle of 2021 they will just be starting out in a lot of Europe where side deals haven't been done. I'm actually genuinely concerned about it because we need Europe to get on top of this as well.
    They have signed with Pfizer (now), haven't they?
    Only for 100m guaranteed in 2021. The other 200m they are back of the queue.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    MaxPB said:

    EU yet to order any Moderna vaccine:

    The European commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, has said her officials have concluded exploratory talks with Moderna, writes Daniel Boffey, the Guardian’s Brussels bureau chief.

    Von der Leyen said:

    We hope to finalise the contract soon. We do not know at this stage which vaccines will end up being safe and effective. The European Medicines Agency will authorise them only after a robust assessment. And this is why we need to have a broad portfolio of vaccines based on very different technologies in parallel.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/nov/16/coronavirus-live-news-us-confirms-1m-cases-in-a-week-boris-johnson-selfisolating

    Wait so Peston was peddling fake news earlier which our own twatter in chief reposted with no research?!
    "The commission has a potential purchase agreement for 80m doses with Moderna with an option to double that amount."
    And yet nothing has been signed. Just like with Pfizer. Nothing has been signed. I don't understand what the EU are waiting for, it's legitimately starting to worry me that they are letting financial prudence get in the way of speed and while the UK and US will be most of the way through a vaccine programme by the middle of 2021 they will just be starting out in a lot of Europe where side deals haven't been done. I'm actually genuinely concerned about it because we need Europe to get on top of this as well.
    They have signed with Pfizer (now), haven't they?
    Not yet, but I think it's close to being signed, 100m for 2021 delivery and 200m for an unspecified delivery date (2022 onwards). As I said, the EU's big bet seems to be Curevac, but that hasn't properly started PIII trials yet.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    Laugh-out-loud comedy from Owen Jones here:

    twitter.com/0Iangardner2/status/1328275383406514176

    Why have the Guardian shuttered his original YouTube stuff?

    His videos so far on his YouTube channel are getting piss poor number of views. Somebody with so many social media followers and national newspaper column should really be able to get more than a few 1000 views per video, when things like a bearded man doing food challenges can get 500k per video and even a man teaching the French, English swear words, to use against the French government for messing up COVID response does more views.
    Traditional media seems to struggle to get large numbers of online viewers on the likes of YouTube, whereas there are some online-only or online-first creators who get huge numbers of viewers. And they aren't shoddy operations any more, they have some impressive fliming setups, with huge rented warehouses used as studios, and lots of technical support. You have gamers, people doing stunts and tricks, people doing reviews and the like, getting millions of views per video, far more than their traditional competitors, and they receive lots of sponsorship and advertising.
    When I did a YouTube channel it was incredibly volatile / random.

    I'd do a video I thought was amazing, and get 2,000 views. Then I'd do one which I thought was "meh", and it would get 200,000.

    Basically, you either trigger the YouTube algorithm (one way or another) and it surfaces your video to people who might like t, or you don't and only your subscrbers ever see it.

    How to end Illegal Immigration: 221k views
    The Future's Bright, The Future's Not Coal: 201k views
    What a $400 Hotel Room Tells Us About the Price of Oil*: 67k views
    What Causes Trade Deficits: 19k views
    Italy: 50 Ways To Leave the Euro: 5k views

    I guess I should feel smug that my videos are more popular than Owen Jones.

    * That was probably my best video
    Why did you stop?
    Because I started an auto insurance business.

    Basically, I'm a pretty entrepreneurial guy. Making YouTube videos was fun, but it was a job rather than building something bigger.
    One of the "secrets" these days is rather than a small number of videos, hoping for that one viral hit and you get an audience. The channels that build are the ones who now put out 3-4-5 videos a day.
  • MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
  • MaxPB said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    MaxPB said:

    EU yet to order any Moderna vaccine:

    The European commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, has said her officials have concluded exploratory talks with Moderna, writes Daniel Boffey, the Guardian’s Brussels bureau chief.

    Von der Leyen said:

    We hope to finalise the contract soon. We do not know at this stage which vaccines will end up being safe and effective. The European Medicines Agency will authorise them only after a robust assessment. And this is why we need to have a broad portfolio of vaccines based on very different technologies in parallel.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/nov/16/coronavirus-live-news-us-confirms-1m-cases-in-a-week-boris-johnson-selfisolating

    Wait so Peston was peddling fake news earlier which our own twatter in chief reposted with no research?!
    "The commission has a potential purchase agreement for 80m doses with Moderna with an option to double that amount."
    And yet nothing has been signed. Just like with Pfizer. Nothing has been signed. I don't understand what the EU are waiting for, it's legitimately starting to worry me that they are letting financial prudence get in the way of speed and while the UK and US will be most of the way through a vaccine programme by the middle of 2021 they will just be starting out in a lot of Europe where side deals haven't been done. I'm actually genuinely concerned about it because we need Europe to get on top of this as well.
    "Nothing has been signed"

    You will certainly be aware that the BionTech research was only partly funded by the federal government of Germany, the evil Fourth Reich has thrown in some dirty money, pressed from its vassals, too.

    It seems kind of adorable to believe that Mordor could have done that in some bout of altruism, without forcing BionTech under the yoke of preliminary contracts which ensure early access to the vaccine.
  • Sandpit said:

    “Social media companies are acting like publishers” - Barack Obama.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/16/former-president-obama-social-media-companies-make-editorial-choices.html

    This is probably as good an insight as we’ve had so far, about how Pres Biden might look to regulate online content distribution.

    At which point, OGH becomes liable for what we write. So he would have to close the comments.

    The big media companies would be the only ones who could afford to run comment sections....
    To be fair, it might be Vanilla that becomes liable for what we write.

    But I imagine that PB would simply go underground, lurking in the deepest places of the Dark Web where discussion of voting systems and pizza topping can take place away from the prying eyes of the authorities...

    --AS
  • MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,223

    dr_spyn said:
    The lib dems, jeez

    Plus tories starting to leak to BP.

    Nonsense. The Brexit Party are 2pp down on last week's You Gov poll - 6% then to 4% now. Farage's latest meanderings are having no impact, despite what some may wish.

    As for the Lib Dems (5%), I can't help thinking they are in real trouble. Ed Davey is a mistake - he's a poor leader, and will get little traction. I saw Daisy Cooper perform in the HoC last week - quite impressive. She would have been a much better, forward-looking choice for leader, with plenty of time to make a name for herself by 2024.
    I think we could be polarizing. Fine for people like me who find it easy to pick a side but many will have an awkward choice.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    Re vaccines, I think the most interesting datapoint I saw this week was that BioNTech estimates that the peak viral shedding is cut in half with its vaccine. This effectively drops the R in half for those who've been vaccinated and helps us avoid what we'd all feared: that those who'd be vaccinated would end up being very efficient asymptomatic superspreaders.

    Hopefully all the other vaccines are as efficacious in this way.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    In fairness, many (most?) Chinese can't swim. It really is a remarkable feature of their culture.
    Here. You might drown, so pretty much everyone learns to swim as a child.
    There. You might drown, so don't go near the water.
    I found the same among Ghanians & other West Africans. Though there it seems to be especially the sea.
    Anywhere in Africa there is the powerful crocodile disincentive to get in to any body of fresh water.
    I may be wrong, but aren't crocs saltwater dwellers, and gators freshwater?
    There are freshwater crocs everywhere in Africa. Salties confined to Australia afaik.
    I once came within a few metres of the world's largest known crocodile. And it survived in one piece.
    Gator long, there.
  • BBC News - EU budget blocked by Hungary and Poland over rule of law issue
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54964858
  • 21,363 new cases of coronavirus have been confirmed in the past day.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited November 2020
    In my previous job I used to work with those in BioNTech’s purchasing and technical teams. Great guys.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    MaxPB said:

    EU yet to order any Moderna vaccine:

    The European commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, has said her officials have concluded exploratory talks with Moderna, writes Daniel Boffey, the Guardian’s Brussels bureau chief.

    Von der Leyen said:

    We hope to finalise the contract soon. We do not know at this stage which vaccines will end up being safe and effective. The European Medicines Agency will authorise them only after a robust assessment. And this is why we need to have a broad portfolio of vaccines based on very different technologies in parallel.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/nov/16/coronavirus-live-news-us-confirms-1m-cases-in-a-week-boris-johnson-selfisolating

    Wait so Peston was peddling fake news earlier which our own twatter in chief reposted with no research?!
    "The commission has a potential purchase agreement for 80m doses with Moderna with an option to double that amount."
    And yet nothing has been signed. Just like with Pfizer. Nothing has been signed. I don't understand what the EU are waiting for, it's legitimately starting to worry me that they are letting financial prudence get in the way of speed and while the UK and US will be most of the way through a vaccine programme by the middle of 2021 they will just be starting out in a lot of Europe where side deals haven't been done. I'm actually genuinely concerned about it because we need Europe to get on top of this as well.
    "Nothing has been signed"

    You will certainly be aware that the BionTech research was only partly funded by the federal government of Germany, the evil Fourth Reich has thrown in some dirty money, pressed from its vassals, too.

    It seems kind of adorable to believe that Mordor could have done that in some bout of altruism, without forcing BionTech under the yoke of preliminary contracts which ensure early access to the vaccine.
    AIUI Germany specifically has its own side deal which isn't a huge surprise. My worry is for the wider EU position which is hugely dependent on Curevac and they haven't started PIII trials yet. You seem to think that I'm making some kind of point about it, I'm actually not. The commission needs to just get these deals signed ASAP at whatever the cost. I don't think the UK government order of 5m from Moderna has come cheap and yet they did it anyway, pen to paper delivery in spring 2021.

    The sooner we all beat the virus for good the better off we'll all be, your comment is unwarranted.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Some people still think it a hoax even while dying of it:

    https://twitter.com/JodiDoering/status/1327771330884808710?s=19
  • MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,223

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Just noticed Rishi Sunak has taken to imitating his boss. The breathy enthusiasm you get from a dog after a run. Unfortunately as with Johnson it just looks fake.

    I get quite strong Blair if I close my eyes.
    The man or the policies?
    Just the voice - tone and inflection and tics.
  • In my previous job I used to work with those in BioNTech’s purchasing and technical teams. Great guys.

    Can you pull some favours and strings and get vaccines for PBers as a priority?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,100
    edited November 2020

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I doubt Piers gives his money to such capitalist enterprises. Or maybe he just objects strongly to the fact pizza hut do pineapple topped ones.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Some people still think it a hoax even while dying of it:

    https://twitter.com/JodiDoering/status/1327771330884808710?s=19
    Explains Trump's resilience in red states
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    BBC News - EU budget blocked by Hungary and Poland over rule of law issue
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54964858

    Are they for or against the rule of law?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,100
    edited November 2020

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    Oldies are going to be having it large. On holiday, in the cinema, in the pubs and clubs...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    Yes, this is my issue. If the government are restricting supply then this policy is unfair to people under 40 who just won't get it for ages.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    So not for those who prefer broth?
  • MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    In fairness, many (most?) Chinese can't swim. It really is a remarkable feature of their culture.
    Here. You might drown, so pretty much everyone learns to swim as a child.
    There. You might drown, so don't go near the water.
    I found the same among Ghanians & other West Africans. Though there it seems to be especially the sea.
    Anywhere in Africa there is the powerful crocodile disincentive to get in to any body of fresh water.
    I may be wrong, but aren't crocs saltwater dwellers, and gators freshwater?
    There are freshwater crocs everywhere in Africa. Salties confined to Australia afaik.
    I once came within a few metres of the world's largest known crocodile. And it survived in one piece.
    Gator long, there.
    Always with the puns, instead of makin gharial contribution to the debate.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited November 2020

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    So we should prepare for 2021 being as crap as 2020?

    If that's the case, I feel like people's expectations are not being managed...
  • As someone who is both vulnerable and a key worker, I'm going to be at the top of. the list of the vaccines.

    I'm really glad Boris Johnson designated me a key worker, he's not such a bad PM all told.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    If it all goes to plan and the AZ vaccine is as good as Pfizer and Moderna then we should have the nation majority vaccinated by the end of August 2021 with 3-4m doses per week being given by doctors, nurses, pharmacists, student doctors and student nurses.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    In fairness, many (most?) Chinese can't swim. It really is a remarkable feature of their culture.
    Here. You might drown, so pretty much everyone learns to swim as a child.
    There. You might drown, so don't go near the water.
    I found the same among Ghanians & other West Africans. Though there it seems to be especially the sea.
    Anywhere in Africa there is the powerful crocodile disincentive to get in to any body of fresh water.
    I may be wrong, but aren't crocs saltwater dwellers, and gators freshwater?
    There are freshwater crocs everywhere in Africa. Salties confined to Australia afaik.
    I once came within a few metres of the world's largest known crocodile. And it survived in one piece.
    Gator long, there.
    Cayman, man!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,671
    edited November 2020

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    So we should prepare for 2021 being as crap as 2020?

    If that's the case, I feel like people's expectations are not being managed...
    I suspect once the vulnerable and key workers are vaccinated, then we might see a return to some normality for everybody by the summer of 2021, so long as we engage in things like social distancing, regular hand washing, and mask wearing.

    Oh and localised lockdowns if we have some Covid-19 flare ups.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    Expect a howl of special pleading over what is a "key worker."
  • MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    If it takes that long there will be riots.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Foxy said:

    BBC News - EU budget blocked by Hungary and Poland over rule of law issue
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54964858

    Are they for or against the rule of law?
    Against I believe.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    If it all goes to plan and the AZ vaccine is as good as Pfizer and Moderna then we should have the nation majority vaccinated by the end of August 2021 with 3-4m doses per week being given by doctors, nurses, pharmacists, student doctors and student nurses.
    I'm factoring in that someone like Dido Harding will be in charge of the vaccine rollout.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,998
    edited November 2020

    As someone who is both vulnerable and a key worker, I'm going to be at the top of. the list of the vaccines.

    I'm really glad Boris Johnson designated me a key worker, he's not such a bad PM all told.

    SeanT etc is going to be at the head of the queue, isn't he/aren't they?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    And where does that leave healthy adults between 18 and 40 ?
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    MaxPB said:

    EU yet to order any Moderna vaccine:

    The European commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, has said her officials have concluded exploratory talks with Moderna, writes Daniel Boffey, the Guardian’s Brussels bureau chief.

    Von der Leyen said:

    We hope to finalise the contract soon. We do not know at this stage which vaccines will end up being safe and effective. The European Medicines Agency will authorise them only after a robust assessment. And this is why we need to have a broad portfolio of vaccines based on very different technologies in parallel.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/nov/16/coronavirus-live-news-us-confirms-1m-cases-in-a-week-boris-johnson-selfisolating

    Wait so Peston was peddling fake news earlier which our own twatter in chief reposted with no research?!
    "The commission has a potential purchase agreement for 80m doses with Moderna with an option to double that amount."
    And yet nothing has been signed. Just like with Pfizer. Nothing has been signed. I don't understand what the EU are waiting for, it's legitimately starting to worry me that they are letting financial prudence get in the way of speed and while the UK and US will be most of the way through a vaccine programme by the middle of 2021 they will just be starting out in a lot of Europe where side deals haven't been done. I'm actually genuinely concerned about it because we need Europe to get on top of this as well.
    "Nothing has been signed"

    You will certainly be aware that the BionTech research was only partly funded by the federal government of Germany, the evil Fourth Reich has thrown in some dirty money, pressed from its vassals, too.

    It seems kind of adorable to believe that Mordor could have done that in some bout of altruism, without forcing BionTech under the yoke of preliminary contracts which ensure early access to the vaccine.
    AIUI Germany specifically has its own side deal which isn't a huge surprise. My worry is for the wider EU position which is hugely dependent on Curevac and they haven't started PIII trials yet. You seem to think that I'm making some kind of point about it, I'm actually not. The commission needs to just get these deals signed ASAP at whatever the cost. I don't think the UK government order of 5m from Moderna has come cheap and yet they did it anyway, pen to paper delivery in spring 2021.

    The sooner we all beat the virus for good the better off we'll all be, your comment is unwarranted.
    I fully agree with this statement: "The sooner we all beat the virus for good the better off we'll all be"

    But your statement that the US and the UK have got "on top" of this, and that "Europe" needed to follow your world-leadingness, in the comment I replied to, warranted my comment very much, in my view.
  • Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    And where does that leave healthy adults between 18 and 40 ?
    They'll have their own screenings at the cinema.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    If it all goes to plan and the AZ vaccine is as good as Pfizer and Moderna then we should have the nation majority vaccinated by the end of August 2021 with 3-4m doses per week being given by doctors, nurses, pharmacists, student doctors and student nurses.
    I'm factoring in that someone like Dido Harding will be in charge of the vaccine rollout.
    It's definitely a worry.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    In fairness, many (most?) Chinese can't swim. It really is a remarkable feature of their culture.
    Here. You might drown, so pretty much everyone learns to swim as a child.
    There. You might drown, so don't go near the water.
    I found the same among Ghanians & other West Africans. Though there it seems to be especially the sea.
    Anywhere in Africa there is the powerful crocodile disincentive to get in to any body of fresh water.
    I may be wrong, but aren't crocs saltwater dwellers, and gators freshwater?
    There are freshwater crocs everywhere in Africa. Salties confined to Australia afaik.
    I once came within a few metres of the world's largest known crocodile. And it survived in one piece.
    Gator long, there.</blockquote

    He nearly gavial lot for his thrills ...
  • Scott_xP said:
    We know what Johnson thinks about business. No doubt that includes West Midlands manufacturers.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,671
    edited November 2020
    I think one of the other things we've got to factor in is some resistance to vaccine uptake.

    It is inevitable some medically vulnerable people will die after taking the vaccine for reasons unrelated to the vaccine and the idiots who egged on Andrew Wakefield will launch their bullshit.

    People will say my mate, Jason on Facebook, who was expelled from school for being an idiot, says he knows the vaccine will kill us if we have a 5G phone, so I'm not taking it.

    That will cause some delays.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2020
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Some people still think it a hoax even while dying of it:

    https://twitter.com/JodiDoering/status/1327771330884808710?s=19
    I posted that yesterday, it is a supremely depressing read.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    In fairness, many (most?) Chinese can't swim. It really is a remarkable feature of their culture.
    Here. You might drown, so pretty much everyone learns to swim as a child.
    There. You might drown, so don't go near the water.
    I found the same among Ghanians & other West Africans. Though there it seems to be especially the sea.
    Anywhere in Africa there is the powerful crocodile disincentive to get in to any body of fresh water.
    I may be wrong, but aren't crocs saltwater dwellers, and gators freshwater?
    There are freshwater crocs everywhere in Africa. Salties confined to Australia afaik.
    I once came within a few metres of the world's largest known crocodile. And it survived in one piece.
    Gator long, there.
    Always with the puns, instead of makin gharial contribution to the debate.
    Well, I am monitoring it in between making awesome puns.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884

    As someone who is both vulnerable and a key worker, I'm going to be at the top of. the list of the vaccines.

    I'm really glad Boris Johnson designated me a key worker, he's not such a bad PM all told.

    SeanT etc is going to be at the head of the queue, isn't he/aren't they?
    Well, he does go to exotic places such as Penarth ...
  • TimT said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    The phenomenon of people milling about until someone acts - which crystallises the actions of the rest - is a an interesting piece of human behaviour.
    Taking out your phone and videoing this is an interesting reaction to the situation, though.
    Very, very common.
    The Kitty Genovese phenomenon. The more people around, the less likely any one individual is to intervene with the required help.
    Most of us will have experienced this, not by witnessing murders or drownings, but when the office fire alarm goes off. You don't immediately head for the fire escape, you look uncertainly around to see what everyone else is doing, and they do the same.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    Expect a howl of special pleading over what is a "key worker."
    If teachers are not included, there really will be trouble. We’re fed up enough as it is (and struggling to stay open, as predicted).
  • dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    Expect a howl of special pleading over what is a "key worker."
    Timpsons and Locksmiths....

    I know I have only just arrived, but I will now do the hat and coat walk of shame.....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    And where does that leave healthy adults between 18 and 40 ?
    They'll have their own screenings at the cinema.
    Matinees.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001

    We know what Johnson thinks about business. No doubt that includes West Midlands manufacturers.

    When Jaguar close their last UK plant because of Brexit, is that Global Britain, or Taking Back Control?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Carnyx said:

    As someone who is both vulnerable and a key worker, I'm going to be at the top of. the list of the vaccines.

    I'm really glad Boris Johnson designated me a key worker, he's not such a bad PM all told.

    SeanT etc is going to be at the head of the queue, isn't he/aren't they?
    Well, he does go to exotic places such as Penarth ...
    More to the point, give it to him and one shot will vaccinate about 50 people.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,389
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    And where does that leave healthy adults between 18 and 40 ?
    At home.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,223
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1328391951859716097?s=20

    In fairness, many (most?) Chinese can't swim. It really is a remarkable feature of their culture.
    Here. You might drown, so pretty much everyone learns to swim as a child.
    There. You might drown, so don't go near the water.
    I found the same among Ghanians & other West Africans. Though there it seems to be especially the sea.
    Anywhere in Africa there is the powerful crocodile disincentive to get in to any body of fresh water.
    I may be wrong, but aren't crocs saltwater dwellers, and gators freshwater?
    There are freshwater crocs everywhere in Africa. Salties confined to Australia afaik.
    I once came within a few metres of the world's largest known crocodile. And it survived in one piece.
    Gator long, there.
    You mock but it's totally shoe.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    MaxPB said:

    EU yet to order any Moderna vaccine:

    The European commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, has said her officials have concluded exploratory talks with Moderna, writes Daniel Boffey, the Guardian’s Brussels bureau chief.

    Von der Leyen said:

    We hope to finalise the contract soon. We do not know at this stage which vaccines will end up being safe and effective. The European Medicines Agency will authorise them only after a robust assessment. And this is why we need to have a broad portfolio of vaccines based on very different technologies in parallel.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/nov/16/coronavirus-live-news-us-confirms-1m-cases-in-a-week-boris-johnson-selfisolating

    Wait so Peston was peddling fake news earlier which our own twatter in chief reposted with no research?!
    "The commission has a potential purchase agreement for 80m doses with Moderna with an option to double that amount."
    And yet nothing has been signed. Just like with Pfizer. Nothing has been signed. I don't understand what the EU are waiting for, it's legitimately starting to worry me that they are letting financial prudence get in the way of speed and while the UK and US will be most of the way through a vaccine programme by the middle of 2021 they will just be starting out in a lot of Europe where side deals haven't been done. I'm actually genuinely concerned about it because we need Europe to get on top of this as well.
    "Nothing has been signed"

    You will certainly be aware that the BionTech research was only partly funded by the federal government of Germany, the evil Fourth Reich has thrown in some dirty money, pressed from its vassals, too.

    It seems kind of adorable to believe that Mordor could have done that in some bout of altruism, without forcing BionTech under the yoke of preliminary contracts which ensure early access to the vaccine.
    AIUI Germany specifically has its own side deal which isn't a huge surprise. My worry is for the wider EU position which is hugely dependent on Curevac and they haven't started PIII trials yet. You seem to think that I'm making some kind of point about it, I'm actually not. The commission needs to just get these deals signed ASAP at whatever the cost. I don't think the UK government order of 5m from Moderna has come cheap and yet they did it anyway, pen to paper delivery in spring 2021.

    The sooner we all beat the virus for good the better off we'll all be, your comment is unwarranted.
    I fully agree with this statement: "The sooner we all beat the virus for good the better off we'll all be"

    But your statement that the US and the UK have got "on top" of this, and that "Europe" needed to follow your world-leadingness, in the comment I replied to, warranted my comment very much, in my view.
    That's your problem then. No one is on top of this, the US and UK have got a very strong vaccine portfolio, the EU hasn't. Saying so is just pointing to the fact of the matter. The EU just needs to throw caution to the wind and get these deals signed. Sign the Moderna deal, sign the Pfizer deal. Put pen to paper, get the deliveries scheduled and get vaccination programmes started up.

    The EU scheme is failing the citizens of the 27 nations at the moment, they just need to get on with it and deal with their large order of Curevac at some other point.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    Expect a howl of special pleading over what is a "key worker."
    Timpsons and Locksmiths....

    I know I have only just arrived, but I will now do the hat and coat walk of shame.....
    Piano tuners.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    Expect a howl of special pleading over what is a "key worker."
    Timpsons and Locksmiths....

    I know I have only just arrived, but I will now do the hat and coat walk of shame.....
    I am not sure heather you saw my post a couple of weeks back, but Timpsons in Burntwood really have put up a sign saying ‘we are key workers, we are staying open.’
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    Expect a howl of special pleading over what is a "key worker."
    If teachers are not included, there really will be trouble. We’re fed up enough as it is (and struggling to stay open, as predicted).
    I'm almost certain they will be given that schools are one of the major transmission sources.
  • Scott_xP said:

    We know what Johnson thinks about business. No doubt that includes West Midlands manufacturers.

    When Jaguar close their last UK plant because of Brexit, is that Global Britain, or Taking Back Control?
    Britannia unleashed.
  • I think the current government list of key workers will determine who gets the vaccine first.

    Emergency workers.
    Critical systems workers.
    NHS Staff.
    Care home staff.
    Supermarket staff.
    Anyone who works for a bank.

    The latter one was a brilliant decision by the government.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    I think the current government list of key workers will determine who gets the vaccine first.

    Emergency workers.
    Critical systems workers.
    NHS Staff.
    Care home staff.
    Supermarket staff.
    Anyone who works for a bank.

    The latter one was a brilliant decision by the government.

    Does that mean I'm in line for an early vaccine as well? Excellent, may rejoin the party and vote for Boris again!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    Expect a howl of special pleading over what is a "key worker."
    Timpsons and Locksmiths....

    I know I have only just arrived, but I will now do the hat and coat walk of shame.....
    Piano tuners.
    GCHQ Cheltenham.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    If it takes that long there will be riots.

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    And where does that leave healthy adults between 18 and 40 ?
    At home.
    Can we at least get ahead of the numpties who refuse to take it ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    I think the current government list of key workers will determine who gets the vaccine first.

    Emergency workers.
    Critical systems workers.
    NHS Staff.
    Care home staff.
    Supermarket staff.
    Anyone who works for a bank.

    The latter one was a brilliant decision by the government.

    Teachers notably absent from that list.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    ydoethur said:
    His nanny sure does.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    Expect a howl of special pleading over what is a "key worker."
    If teachers are not included, there really will be trouble. We’re fed up enough as it is (and struggling to stay open, as predicted).
    I'm almost certain they will be given that schools are one of the major transmission sources.
    Since when has logic had even a passing acquaintance with this lot?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    ydoethur said:

    I think the current government list of key workers will determine who gets the vaccine first.

    Emergency workers.
    Critical systems workers.
    NHS Staff.
    Care home staff.
    Supermarket staff.
    Anyone who works for a bank.

    The latter one was a brilliant decision by the government.

    Teachers notably absent from that list.
    You've been usurped by bank workers, fairly I'd say. Sorry.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    ydoethur said:

    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    Expect a howl of special pleading over what is a "key worker."
    If teachers are not included, there really will be trouble. We’re fed up enough as it is (and struggling to stay open, as predicted).
    I'm almost certain they will be given that schools are one of the major transmission sources.
    Since when has logic had even a passing acquaintance with this lot?
    Oxford U.
  • johntjohnt Posts: 166
    I do find it amusing that the Tories were just last week shouting that their approach to the vaccine was a huge success. Today they have been scrabbling around trying to spend more of our money to cover their latest problems. Personally I am staggered that we seem to be completely missing the complexity of getting at least 40 million vaccine doses into at least 40 million people. The NHS will not solve this problem easily on their own. The government seems to permanently solving out of date problems. They are still trying to fix testing, but the challenge of today is vaccination and that is a problem they should have started to solve last March.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    Expect a howl of special pleading over what is a "key worker."
    Timpsons and Locksmiths....

    I know I have only just arrived, but I will now do the hat and coat walk of shame.....
    Piano tuners.
    GCHQ Cheltenham.
    Wholesale coke dealers.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    Expect a howl of special pleading over what is a "key worker."
    Timpsons and Locksmiths....

    I know I have only just arrived, but I will now do the hat and coat walk of shame.....
    Piano tuners.
    Good one :+1:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    I think the current government list of key workers will determine who gets the vaccine first.

    Emergency workers.
    Critical systems workers.
    NHS Staff.
    Care home staff.
    Supermarket staff.
    Anyone who works for a bank.

    The latter one was a brilliant decision by the government.

    Teachers notably absent from that list.
    You've been usurped by bank workers, fairly I'd say. Sorry.
    I don’t need sex. My bank fucks me every day.

    But it would be bizarre to have bankers, who can work over the phone, placed ahead of teachers, who are being forced more or less at gunpoint to work in ideal transmission situations without any meaningful protection, in the queue for the vaccine.
This discussion has been closed.