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On Betfair you can still place bets on Biden being next president – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    Smaller states are already well represented in the Senate.

    Electoral College votes are supposed to scale with population. So, I think there's a good case to say that Wyoming has too many relative to Texas or California (or even Kansas or Utah).
    ECV votes are equal to the number of senators plus representatives i.e. 100 + 438. Senators are fixed at 2 per state. Representatives are apportioned by population, though each state must have at least 1.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,714
    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    Smaller states are already well represented in the Senate.

    Electoral College votes are supposed to scale with population. So, I think there's a good case to say that Wyoming has too many relative to Texas or California (or even Kansas or Utah).
    Wyoming has roughly 600,000 people - so 3 EVs mean it has 1 EV per 200,000

    California has 40,000,000 people with 55 EVs, so roughly 1 EV per 700,000.
    Isn't there a requirement of a minimum of 3 for any state? Montana, the Dakotas and Delaware all provide 3 EC votes.

    The question therefore is why California doesn't have more EC delegates but based on Wyoming it would have 200 and I suspect the GOP would have some issues with that.
    Surely the EC is just the sum of Senators and Representatives for any State, therefore not proportionate?. Plus 3 for DC.
  • glw said:

    Poland has recorded nearly 28k more COVID cases, with a 41% positivity rate.

    Most of Eastern Europe is now suffering badly.

    This is also striking:

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1325175997524828160

    Even if pro rata rather lower than some of the Belgian and Swiss numbers.
  • One easy change to the EC that individual states could do is what Main and Nebraska have: split their votes depending on how many votes each candidate gets (one way or another) rather than going with winner takes all. It would make candidates pay attention to all the states, not just the swing ones.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,603

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    If you want to understand why the United States is different, a good starting point is to ponder upon the meaning "United States" - what do those two words mean individually, and what do they mean juxtaposed? Each State getting a say in the electoral process makes sense from this perspective.

    Someone in the last thread was decrying the Senate's composition, two from each State, as unfair. Fair or not, it reflects the entire purpose of the Senate! If it were to be more proportionate, you might as well just scrap it and have a unicameral system. A knock-on effect of either abandoning the Senate or reforming so its makeup almost always shadows the House of Representatives, is that change would come much easier. Generally this favours progressives over conservatives, of course, but wouldn't be costless for someone who generally dislikes conservatism, since it means progressive actions can be more easily overturned later, and you might not like the changes a more conservative administration would be empowered to pursue.

    USA isn't alone in a deliberately non-proportional set-up. Here's an extract from the OSCE report on the 2009 Norwegian election:

    The number of mandates per constituency is determined every eight years by the Ministry of Local Government and Regional Development, using a formula established in the Constitution (Article 57), which gives weight both to the population and to the geographic size of each county. The factor of county geographic size in mandate allocation is a historical consideration intended to balance the perceived uneven
    distribution of power between rural and urban citizens in national politics. The result is that the country’s rural constituencies, which are significantly larger in geographic size than the urban constituencies, are allocated a greater number of seats than would be the case if based strictly on population.

    The discrepancy is particularly notable in Finnmark County where there are 7,409 registered voters per mandate, while in Vestfold, there are 18,464 per mandate. The Finnmark quotient is a 50 per cent deviation from the average quotient in the country (14,954 votes per mandate). Four other counties have a deviation of approximately 20
    per cent, and a total of seven counties deviate from the norm by more than 15 percent.

    While some OSCE/ODIHR EAM interlocutors accepted this structural inequality of the vote based on a constitutional formula, others advocated for a stricter or strict equality of the vote noting that the historical rationale is no longer relevant and that the deviation is an infringement of the right to equal suffrage. The Council of Europe’s Commission for Democracy through Law (Venice Commission) recommends for equal suffrage that “the permissible departure from the norm should not be more than 10 per cent, and should certainly not exceed 15 per cent except in special circumstances (protection of a concentrated minority, sparsely populated administrative entity).”


    There's a lot in that. Perhaps the House of Lords should have just 8 elected members. Two from England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    On topic, the better bets are Joe Biden -48.5 (absolute certainty) at 1.12, Joe Biden electoral college votes 300-329 at 1.14, Democrats winning Arizona at 1.18, and Joe Biden at 52.00-54.99% at 4.1 on Betfair.

    I also think it might be worth a tenner on the Dems to take North Carolina at 8.00 (yes, really).

    All of these bets are better than the Republicans winning Alaska at 1.02, which some people are still getting excited about flipping (it won't; I ditched this fantasy yesterday).

    The -48.5 bet is quality, but isn't the 300-329 bet and the Arizona bet the same? So may as well just take the longer odds one.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    isam said:



    Blimey @rcs1000 I thought you would have got the joke! Unless I have missed a subtle joke in your reply?

    Especially as I'd made the same joke about an hour earlier...

    (Soz if you didn't see it)
    Oh I didn't see that, sorry. Good joke yesterday about Computer Magazine Readers Wives, I was going to crack it until I saw you had already
    Great minds, etc...

    Now all we need is a joke about WW2 naval battles.
    That would be a Pearl, if you Harbour such ideas.
    I see you're stepping up to the River Plate!
    Only Midway to a real winner...
    I think you are in deNile about how good it was.
    Those of us expecting good puns have been Hood-winked.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,714
    Medea85 said:

    I think there is a none-zero chance that Trump (not wanting to hang around as a lame-duck) might resign and let Pence take over for the transition.

    Though that would be an acceptance of his defeat.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Important point about the he Electoral College that gets ignored is the the Founding Fathers hated what it became. In the 1800s James Madison proposed an amendment to stop the states awarding electors on a winner takes all basis. Indeed the whole idea of pre-pledged electors runs completely contrary to the Electoral College as intended by the founding fathers. .

    Argueably the only time the Electoral College has worked "as intended" was the first election of Washington.
  • stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    Smaller states are already well represented in the Senate.

    Electoral College votes are supposed to scale with population. So, I think there's a good case to say that Wyoming has too many relative to Texas or California (or even Kansas or Utah).
    Wyoming has roughly 600,000 people - so 3 EVs mean it has 1 EV per 200,000

    California has 40,000,000 people with 55 EVs, so roughly 1 EV per 700,000.
    Isn't there a requirement of a minimum of 3 for any state? Montana, the Dakotas and Delaware all provide 3 EC votes.

    The question therefore is why California doesn't have more EC delegates but based on Wyoming it would have 200 and I suspect the GOP would have some issues with that.
    Apportioning 538 electors among the States+DC according to the 2010 census total population:

    California 65
    Texas 44
    New York 34
    Florida 33
    Illinois 22
    Pennsylvania 22
    Ohio 20
    Michigan 17
    Georgia 17
    North Carolina 17
    New Jersey 15
    Virginia 14
    Washington 12
    Massachusetts 11
    Indiana 11
    Arizona 11
    Tennessee 11
    Missouri 11
    Maryland 10
    Wisconsin 10
    Minnesota 9
    Colorado 9
    Alabama 8
    South Carolina 8
    Louisiana 8
    Kentucky 8
    Oregon 7
    Oklahoma 7
    Connecticut 6
    Iowa 5
    Mississippi 5
    Arkansas 5
    Kansas 5
    Utah 5
    Nevada 5
    New Mexico 4
    West Virginia 3
    Nebraska 3
    Idaho 3
    Hawaii 2
    Maine 2
    New Hampshire 2
    Rhode Island 2
    Montana 2
    Delaware 2
    South Dakota 1
    Alaska 1
    North Dakota 1
    Vermont 1
    District of Columbia 1
    Wyoming 1
    TOTAL 538
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    glw said:

    Poland has recorded nearly 28k more COVID cases, with a 41% positivity rate.

    Most of Eastern Europe is now suffering badly.

    This is also striking:

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1325175997524828160

    Even if pro rata rather lower than some of the Belgian and Swiss numbers.
    That is bad. The next few months are going to be grim.
  • StarryStarry Posts: 111

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    If Democrat candidates for President were winning through the electoral college, but narrowly losing the national popular vote at the same time, we'd hear far less of this argument.
    Nonsense. The Republicans are already complaining even though they lost both the popular vote and the EC. Think what would happen if Trump had won the popular vote but lost the EC?!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,714

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    isam said:



    Blimey @rcs1000 I thought you would have got the joke! Unless I have missed a subtle joke in your reply?

    Especially as I'd made the same joke about an hour earlier...

    (Soz if you didn't see it)
    Oh I didn't see that, sorry. Good joke yesterday about Computer Magazine Readers Wives, I was going to crack it until I saw you had already
    Great minds, etc...

    Now all we need is a joke about WW2 naval battles.
    That would be a Pearl, if you Harbour such ideas.
    I see you're stepping up to the River Plate!
    Only Midway to a real winner...
    I think you are in deNile about how good it was.
    Those of us expecting good puns have been Hood-winked.
    Though to Convoy a good pun one needs to be quite Arctic-ulate.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Barnesian said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:
    I make that fifteen vice-Presidents from Truman, of which six became President, giving Harris a naive probability of 2/5 to subsequently become President herself.
    That’s before factoring in that she’s a useless politician
    What was the phrase? A screeching harpie?
    I forget but that wasn’t referring to Harris (and I wouldn’t use it either). It was referring to a certain type of TV pundit / commentator (not exclusively of the left - I’d include Ann Coulter in this category) with a strident voice and extreme and inflexible politics. Yes, it does relate to women (because of the pitch of their voice) but only in same way that I can’t think of any female politician I world refer to as a “ranting fool” whereas there are plenty of make Tory backbenchers who are in that category (eg Mark Francois)

  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Quincel said:

    On topic, the better bets are Joe Biden -48.5 (absolute certainty) at 1.12, Joe Biden electoral college votes 300-329 at 1.14, Democrats winning Arizona at 1.18, and Joe Biden at 52.00-54.99% at 4.1 on Betfair.

    I also think it might be worth a tenner on the Dems to take North Carolina at 8.00 (yes, really).

    All of these bets are better than the Republicans winning Alaska at 1.02, which some people are still getting excited about flipping (it won't; I ditched this fantasy yesterday).

    The -48.5 bet is quality, but isn't the 300-329 bet and the Arizona bet the same? So may as well just take the longer odds one.
    No it`s not. The 300-329 would lose if Trump wins Arizona. The -48.5 would still win in that eventuality.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Sunday Times going after Kate Bingham for 2nd week running.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    How is everyone pricing the GA run offs
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    "Queens Daily Eagle" - “A 74-year-old Jamaica Estates developer has less than three months left at his current address after Americans overwhelmingly voted him out of the White House, the AP projected Saturday.”

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Titter ... :smile:

  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited November 2020
    Stocky said:

    Quincel said:

    On topic, the better bets are Joe Biden -48.5 (absolute certainty) at 1.12, Joe Biden electoral college votes 300-329 at 1.14, Democrats winning Arizona at 1.18, and Joe Biden at 52.00-54.99% at 4.1 on Betfair.

    I also think it might be worth a tenner on the Dems to take North Carolina at 8.00 (yes, really).

    All of these bets are better than the Republicans winning Alaska at 1.02, which some people are still getting excited about flipping (it won't; I ditched this fantasy yesterday).

    The -48.5 bet is quality, but isn't the 300-329 bet and the Arizona bet the same? So may as well just take the longer odds one.
    No it`s not. The 300-329 would lose if Trump wins Arizona. The -48.5 would still win in that eventuality.
    I mean the Arizona (1.18) and Biden EC Votes 300-329 (1.14). I should have said aren't they the same as each other.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2020
    The other nonsense thing about the EC is the ridiculously unproportional number of votes each state gets, and this is because rin the early 1900s as the US population shifted from rural to urban the politicians representing the rural states realised there power was goi g to ebb away and refused to increase the number of representatives.

    Normally after every census the size of Congress was increased. That came to a total halt as rural politicians protected their power.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Stocky said:

    Quincel said:

    On topic, the better bets are Joe Biden -48.5 (absolute certainty) at 1.12, Joe Biden electoral college votes 300-329 at 1.14, Democrats winning Arizona at 1.18, and Joe Biden at 52.00-54.99% at 4.1 on Betfair.

    I also think it might be worth a tenner on the Dems to take North Carolina at 8.00 (yes, really).

    All of these bets are better than the Republicans winning Alaska at 1.02, which some people are still getting excited about flipping (it won't; I ditched this fantasy yesterday).

    The -48.5 bet is quality, but isn't the 300-329 bet and the Arizona bet the same? So may as well just take the longer odds one.
    No it`s not. The 300-329 would lose if Trump wins Arizona. The -48.5 would still win in that eventuality.
    -48.5 is not an absolute certainty - it would lose if trump wins Georgia (as would the 300-329 obvs).
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,603
    Foxy said:

    Medea85 said:

    I think there is a none-zero chance that Trump (not wanting to hang around as a lame-duck) might resign and let Pence take over for the transition.

    Though that would be an acceptance of his defeat.
    Betfair punters think there is a 15% chance that he will resign before 20 Jan.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    Smaller states are already well represented in the Senate.

    Electoral College votes are supposed to scale with population. So, I think there's a good case to say that Wyoming has too many relative to Texas or California (or even Kansas or Utah).
    They do don’t there? I thought it was no of representatives plus 2?
    Yes, but the US used to, every 10 years, increase the number of representatives as the size of the county increased.

    The difference in size between the largest and smallest congressional district after a century of refusing to o increase the size of the House s now absurd.
  • Starry said:

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    If Democrat candidates for President were winning through the electoral college, but narrowly losing the national popular vote at the same time, we'd hear far less of this argument.
    Nonsense. The Republicans are already complaining even though they lost both the popular vote and the EC. Think what would happen if Trump had won the popular vote but lost the EC?!
    For those people advocating electing a POTUS by popular vote, that would be fine if the margin was always 4 or 5 million votes. If the margin was 4000, you have a big problem.
    And it is a feature/bug of FPTP 2-party systems that sooner rather than later you will get a close result.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Quincel said:

    Stocky said:

    Quincel said:

    On topic, the better bets are Joe Biden -48.5 (absolute certainty) at 1.12, Joe Biden electoral college votes 300-329 at 1.14, Democrats winning Arizona at 1.18, and Joe Biden at 52.00-54.99% at 4.1 on Betfair.

    I also think it might be worth a tenner on the Dems to take North Carolina at 8.00 (yes, really).

    All of these bets are better than the Republicans winning Alaska at 1.02, which some people are still getting excited about flipping (it won't; I ditched this fantasy yesterday).

    The -48.5 bet is quality, but isn't the 300-329 bet and the Arizona bet the same? So may as well just take the longer odds one.
    No it`s not. The 300-329 would lose if Trump wins Arizona. The -48.5 would still win in that eventuality.
    I mean the Arizona (1.18) and Biden EC Votes 300-329 (1.14). I should have said aren't they the same as each other.
    Sorry, I misunderstood. Yes those two are the same bet.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Quincel said:

    On topic, the better bets are Joe Biden -48.5 (absolute certainty) at 1.12, Joe Biden electoral college votes 300-329 at 1.14, Democrats winning Arizona at 1.18, and Joe Biden at 52.00-54.99% at 4.1 on Betfair.

    I also think it might be worth a tenner on the Dems to take North Carolina at 8.00 (yes, really).

    All of these bets are better than the Republicans winning Alaska at 1.02, which some people are still getting excited about flipping (it won't; I ditched this fantasy yesterday).

    The -48.5 bet is quality, but isn't the 300-329 bet and the Arizona bet the same? So may as well just take the longer odds one.
    No it`s not. The 300-329 would lose if Trump wins Arizona. The -48.5 would still win in that eventuality.
    -48.5 is not an absolute certainty - it would lose if trump wins Georgia (as would the 300-329 obvs).
    True, though I'm of the opinion that is essentially impossible. Biden's lead is too big to be changed by a recount, and the remaining ballots are military AND overseas citizens. The latter are hugely Dem, it's entirely possible that the ~9k ballots will actually expand Biden's lead but they certainly won't overcome it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    Smaller states are already well represented in the Senate.

    Electoral College votes are supposed to scale with population. So, I think there's a good case to say that Wyoming has too many relative to Texas or California (or even Kansas or Utah).
    They do don’t there? I thought it was no of representatives plus 2?
    Given that some states are so small they only get one representative, that plus two makes a big difference.
    Yes.

    It’s 435 Representatives plus 100 Senators plus 3 for DC (which is treated as a State for this purpose)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    dr_spyn said:

    Sunday Times going after Kate Bingham for 2nd week running.

    One set of grifters on their way out. How do we shift this lot?

    https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1325180546675322880
  • dr_spyn said:

    Sunday Times going after Kate Bingham for 2nd week running.

    Thread:

    https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1325180546675322880?s=20
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    OllyT said:

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    There are other ways of ensuring small states are treated equally without permanently biasing presidential and Senate elections in the direction of conservative small state rural voters.

    I could probably just about accept keeping the Senate composition as it is if the Presidential election were switched to be being elected by a plurality of voters.

    What justification is there for giving voters in a small state additional weight in Presidential elections? The President ought to e elected on a straight forward one person one vote basis.
    Great. Go and start a campaign to change the constitution instead of whining to me
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,617
    edited November 2020

    One easy change to the EC that individual states could do is what Main and Nebraska have: split their votes depending on how many votes each candidate gets (one way or another) rather than going with winner takes all. It would make candidates pay attention to all the states, not just the swing ones.

    It would be but ...

    ... it would likely boost the GOP:

    2000
    Bush 286 Gore 252

    2004
    Bush 319 Kerry 219

    2008
    Obama 301 McCain 237

    2012
    Romney 277 Obama 260 !!!

    2016
    Trump 292 Clinton 246

    Generally because the bigger states, California especially, are won by the Dems then splitting out their EC votes helps the GOP.

    https://electoralvotemap.com/what-if-all-states-split-their-electoral-votes-like-maine-and-nebraska/
  • Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    If Democrat candidates for President were winning through the electoral college, but narrowly losing the national popular vote at the same time, we'd hear far less of this argument.
    Apart from the 1824 election, which was a bit weird given there were THREE main candidates, since 1876, only Republicans have trespassed into the White House after losing the popular vote:

    1876
    1888
    2000
    2016
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,699
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Marco Rubio must be thrilled with the result, he looks like an absolute lock for 2022 now

    Tom Cotton seems a more likely winner. Indeed, there'll be a host of Republican hopefuls lining up to take on Harris.
    Tom Cotton looks a bit too obviously like a Trump bandwagon jumper. I'd be surprised if he came through the primaries.
    Tom Cotton isn't running in 2022
    Sorry I was thinking of 2024.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    isam said:



    Blimey @rcs1000 I thought you would have got the joke! Unless I have missed a subtle joke in your reply?

    Especially as I'd made the same joke about an hour earlier...

    (Soz if you didn't see it)
    Oh I didn't see that, sorry. Good joke yesterday about Computer Magazine Readers Wives, I was going to crack it until I saw you had already
    Great minds, etc...

    Now all we need is a joke about WW2 naval battles.
    That would be a Pearl, if you Harbour such ideas.
    I see you're stepping up to the River Plate!
    Only Midway to a real winner...
    I think you are in deNile about how good it was.
    Those of us expecting good puns have been Hood-winked.
    Our hopes have been Channel-Dashed!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Has Boris congratulated Biden yet?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    Medea85 said:

    I think there is a none-zero chance that Trump (not wanting to hang around as a lame-duck) might resign and let Pence take over for the transition.

    Though that would be an acceptance of his defeat.
    Betfair punters think there is a 15% chance that he will resign before 20 Jan.

    That market will surely settle at "NO". Even if he resigns. The rules say:

    "For clarity Donald Trump will be deemed to officially cease being President when he is replaced on a permanent basis. Any situation where he steps down on an interim/temporary basis will not count(Updated 05/10/2020 @ 17:00 GMT)"

    I would read that to mean that if he flounces out this won`t count.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934

    Has Boris congratulated Biden yet?

    Yeah, quite a while ago.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    dodrade said:

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    Surely it is more important for the system to be fair to individual voters than states. If the popular vote determined the presidency we would have (by necessity) a very different Republican Party than the one that currently exists today, one in which a Trumpian figure could not succeed.

    And people would pay even less attention to the “flyover states”

    The US is a federal system. The president is chosen by the states, not by the population. That’s the way it works.

    (I’m curious - I suspect it would be legal for a state to change its constitution so the governor gets to nominate the electors without reference to the voters)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001

    Has Boris congratulated Biden yet?

    Barely.

    Raab still hedging.

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1325138242249895937

    Twat
  • Has Boris congratulated Biden yet?

    He wteeted earlier.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    Scott_xP said:

    Has Boris congratulated Biden yet?

    Barely.

    Raab still hedging.

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1325138242249895937

    Twat
    I dunno, it's a factual statement. It's not official until the result has been certified. People read too much into things sometimes.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,603
    Stocky said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    Medea85 said:

    I think there is a none-zero chance that Trump (not wanting to hang around as a lame-duck) might resign and let Pence take over for the transition.

    Though that would be an acceptance of his defeat.
    Betfair punters think there is a 15% chance that he will resign before 20 Jan.

    That market will surely settle at "NO". Even if he resigns. The rules say:

    "For clarity Donald Trump will be deemed to officially cease being President when he is replaced on a permanent basis. Any situation where he steps down on an interim/temporary basis will not count(Updated 05/10/2020 @ 17:00 GMT)"

    I would read that to mean that if he flounces out this won`t count.
    If he flounces out surely it will be on a permanent basis. But if you're right, there is 1.17 sitting there.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,699

    Has Boris congratulated Biden yet?

    He wteeted earlier.
    https://twitter.com/DailyMirror/status/1325174696527138816
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    JACK_W said:

    "Queens Daily Eagle" - “A 74-year-old Jamaica Estates developer has less than three months left at his current address after Americans overwhelmingly voted him out of the White House, the AP projected Saturday.”

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Titter ... :smile:

    A serially bankrupt elderly man of immigrant stock is set to be evicted from
    his residence following a divisive discussion among his local community
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    Charles said:

    A serially bankrupt elderly man of immigrant stock is set to be evicted from
    his residence following a divisive discussion among his local community

    https://twitter.com/DanPriceSeattle/status/1325135384469073925
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    CR/Quincel: If you think Biden is in with a shout of North Carolina, back the -81.5 handicap at 10 (only a bit available).

    To win, Biden would have to take Georgia and North Carolina but it doesn't`t matter whether he wins Arizona.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited November 2020
    Charles said:

    OllyT said:

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    There are other ways of ensuring small states are treated equally without permanently biasing presidential and Senate elections in the direction of conservative small state rural voters.

    I could probably just about accept keeping the Senate composition as it is if the Presidential election were switched to be being elected by a plurality of voters.

    What justification is there for giving voters in a small state additional weight in Presidential elections? The President ought to e elected on a straight forward one person one vote basis.
    Great. Go and start a campaign to change the constitution instead of whining to me
    What a silly petulant response.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Baroness Hoey congratulates the new President.

    https://twitter.com/CatharineHoey/status/1325134561152413697

    Well wait until Baroness Hoey sees this.


    You cannot see the knife in her other hand. He was lucky to get out of there alive.
    We often forget Her Majesty has served in the military.
    And her husband served in one of the Royal Navy's most complete naval victories.
    Matapan, I presume you mean?
    That's the one. Three cruisers for one Swordfish I think.
    Phil the Greek got a Mention In Dispatches for that one, IIRC.

    He was in charge of searchlight control, on his ship - at that period in time, radar, while vital wasn't suitable for complete blind aiming. The aim of searchlights in night fighting was to blind the enemy (imagine looking down a sighting telescope at a zillion candlepower) and illuminate the enemy for your ships to aim at.

    Get it wrong and you have just lit a perfect beacon for the enemy.

    Apparently, when they switched on, the lights were perfectly aimed at the Italian gunnery director towers. So they were blinded, while the British fleet fired multiple salvoes....
    Isn't he more Phil the Dane?
    The Italian heavy cruisers Fiume, Pola, and Zara all had their main guns trained for and aft. The recent book by John Gooch Mussolini's War implied that The Regina Marina had not pursued radar technology.
    That's true, but at a nautical mile or so range, it doesn't mean much - just think of HMS Belfast from, say, Tower Hill underground. The RN were all absolutely astounded by the guns being in the resting position. They certainly were expecting something much more on the qui vive [edit]. (And the air attacks in the Med. were dreadful, as well, anyway.)
    Further to that, the Itaslians could have done some real damage with their 203m guns (ie eight inches, cf. Belfast 6"). Other than the central part of the hull over the engines, boilers and magazines, above the waterline it was only really the main turrets that weere armoured, one or two bits of the inner bridges apart. Much of the armour on battleships and cruisers was flat on the deck (literally) so not much good at point blank range where the trajectory was flattish. So our Phil was in a very exposed position, not much better than being in a tin piedish. Maybe some splinter protection if he was lucky.
    At a mile range, 8" could penetrate 12"+ of face hardened plate, in many cases. So *everything* on the battleships was vulnerable.

    Of Guadalcanal, American cruisers sank a Japanese battleship, by getting in close, IIRC
    And most cruisers had torpedoes - so it would have seemed even more of a risk as the Italians, like the Japanese and British, had decent ones ab initio. Though, to my surprise, I find on checking that they got left off the Zara class cruisers in the design process - Washington Ttreaty limits and all that.

    Did you see my earlier comment about HMS Formidable finding itself in a battle line with three battleships at the crucial point in the battle?
    FPT Sorry - was called away to dinner and a minor family crisis.

    I did watch that little video whuich you recommended - much better than most such things, thank you - which indeed made that point. This makes me want to fish out m copy of Stern 'Big gun actions' to see what it says ...

  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited November 2020

    glw said:

    Poland has recorded nearly 28k more COVID cases, with a 41% positivity rate.

    Most of Eastern Europe is now suffering badly.

    This is also striking:

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1325175997524828160

    Even if pro rata rather lower than some of the Belgian and Swiss numbers.
    With positivity rates getting this high, I'm not sure even the pro rata numbers are particularly meaningful for these daily test results. One part of the UK's response that has been very valuable is directing some testing resources at the ONS household survey, which must have been a tough call when testing capacity was tighter. But it's so valuable to get a clear-ish picture of spread across the community, include age-groups and regions, without having to worry about confounding factors like total test numbers, whether tests have been concentrated in high-risk areas, changes in eligibility or enthusiasm for testing etc. Countries still relying on the daily test numbers are basically fighting while half-blindfolded.

    Not so many months back, I was reading lots of stuff about "timely and effective government action", "strong public health systems" or various structural factors that confidently explained why places like Argentina and the Czech Republic were having relatively "good" pandemics. I did think "don't judge based on the scores before half-time" but still, look how rapidly things have gone downhill for them - those supposed explanations must have been almost entirely vacuous. Shows how little we understanding about stopping Covid unfortunately, even at a "big picture" level.
  • Bye Boris, labour in the lead again
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Scott_xP said:
    In other words, he's all piss and wind.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    And in other news Labour +4 (42 vs 38) in tonight's Opinium
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Stocky said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    Medea85 said:

    I think there is a none-zero chance that Trump (not wanting to hang around as a lame-duck) might resign and let Pence take over for the transition.

    Though that would be an acceptance of his defeat.
    Betfair punters think there is a 15% chance that he will resign before 20 Jan.

    That market will surely settle at "NO". Even if he resigns. The rules say:

    "For clarity Donald Trump will be deemed to officially cease being President when he is replaced on a permanent basis. Any situation where he steps down on an interim/temporary basis will not count(Updated 05/10/2020 @ 17:00 GMT)"

    I would read that to mean that if he flounces out this won`t count.
    If he resigned and Pence was sworn in wouldn't that count? As opposed to him being temporarily removed by the 25th Amendment, perhaps while undergoing a medical procedure.
  • glw said:

    Poland has recorded nearly 28k more COVID cases, with a 41% positivity rate.

    Most of Eastern Europe is now suffering badly.

    This is also striking:

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1325175997524828160

    Even if pro rata rather lower than some of the Belgian and Swiss numbers.
    Its not going too hot in Germant either, ~25k cases a day and crucially this time around the government said it was currently unable to trace 75% of new cases.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Quincel said:

    Stocky said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    Medea85 said:

    I think there is a none-zero chance that Trump (not wanting to hang around as a lame-duck) might resign and let Pence take over for the transition.

    Though that would be an acceptance of his defeat.
    Betfair punters think there is a 15% chance that he will resign before 20 Jan.

    That market will surely settle at "NO". Even if he resigns. The rules say:

    "For clarity Donald Trump will be deemed to officially cease being President when he is replaced on a permanent basis. Any situation where he steps down on an interim/temporary basis will not count(Updated 05/10/2020 @ 17:00 GMT)"

    I would read that to mean that if he flounces out this won`t count.
    If he resigned and Pence was sworn in wouldn't that count? As opposed to him being temporarily removed by the 25th Amendment, perhaps while undergoing a medical procedure.
    Not sure - which is why I`d avoid this market - rules are too unclear for me to get involved.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    isam said:



    Blimey @rcs1000 I thought you would have got the joke! Unless I have missed a subtle joke in your reply?

    Especially as I'd made the same joke about an hour earlier...

    (Soz if you didn't see it)
    Oh I didn't see that, sorry. Good joke yesterday about Computer Magazine Readers Wives, I was going to crack it until I saw you had already
    Great minds, etc...

    Now all we need is a joke about WW2 naval battles.
    That would be a Pearl, if you Harbour such ideas.
    I see you're stepping up to the River Plate!
    Only Midway to a real winner...
    I think you are in deNile about how good it was.
    Those of us expecting good puns have been Hood-winked.
    Our hopes have been Channel-Dashed!
    Well if you want a Punta in the usual PB Stilo ...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    RobD said:

    Has Boris congratulated Biden yet?

    Yeah, quite a while ago.
    Thanks. And good.

    It was a geniune question - I'd read somewhere that he Boris would wait until he could phone Biden, but any delays would have looked very odd - and unhelpful.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:
    I make that fifteen vice-Presidents from Truman, of which six became President, giving Harris a naive probability of 2/5 to subsequently become President herself.
    That’s before factoring in that she’s a useless politician
    Not so useless that she cannot beat Republicans.

    Do I detect a sore loser?
    No, you detect someone who has had Harris as a Senator for several years and is massively unimpressed. She’s wooden and uninspiring.

    Also - traditionally - the job of the Presidential candidate is to win the White House while the VP candidate is focused on supporting senatorial and house candidates. How did she do on that measure?

    Edit: FWIW this is the perfect outcome in my view. Trump is gone, and the manner of his going will condemn him to irrelevance. The Republicans have done well enough in the house and senate to rein in the worst excesses of the nuttier democrats

    Precisely so.
    No, Trump was a symptom, not a cause. The cause has not been addressed, namely a growing proportion of the population is sinking further and further into the mire while more and more wealth is concentrated in the hands of the few.

    And this will only get worse. When you have the CEO of a firm like Lyft, 30-s something (I think), living on the West Coast and a multi-billionaire, talking about how the CV pandemic is a great long-term opportunity for the firm because it means that rising unemployment will mean that more people will want to become Lyft drivers which enables Lyft to pay them less, don't expect America to get happier any time soon.

  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    edited November 2020
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Baroness Hoey congratulates the new President.

    https://twitter.com/CatharineHoey/status/1325134561152413697

    Well wait until Baroness Hoey sees this.


    You cannot see the knife in her other hand. He was lucky to get out of there alive.
    We often forget Her Majesty has served in the military.
    And her husband served in one of the Royal Navy's most complete naval victories.
    Matapan, I presume you mean?
    That's the one. Three cruisers for one Swordfish I think.
    Phil the Greek got a Mention In Dispatches for that one, IIRC.

    He was in charge of searchlight control, on his ship - at that period in time, radar, while vital wasn't suitable for complete blind aiming. The aim of searchlights in night fighting was to blind the enemy (imagine looking down a sighting telescope at a zillion candlepower) and illuminate the enemy for your ships to aim at.

    Get it wrong and you have just lit a perfect beacon for the enemy.

    Apparently, when they switched on, the lights were perfectly aimed at the Italian gunnery director towers. So they were blinded, while the British fleet fired multiple salvoes....
    Isn't he more Phil the Dane?
    The Italian heavy cruisers Fiume, Pola, and Zara all had their main guns trained for and aft. The recent book by John Gooch Mussolini's War implied that The Regina Marina had not pursued radar technology.
    That's true, but at a nautical mile or so range, it doesn't mean much - just think of HMS Belfast from, say, Tower Hill underground. The RN were all absolutely astounded by the guns being in the resting position. They certainly were expecting something much more on the qui vive [edit]. (And the air attacks in the Med. were dreadful, as well, anyway.)
    Further to that, the Itaslians could have done some real damage with their 203m guns (ie eight inches, cf. Belfast 6"). Other than the central part of the hull over the engines, boilers and magazines, above the waterline it was only really the main turrets that weere armoured, one or two bits of the inner bridges apart. Much of the armour on battleships and cruisers was flat on the deck (literally) so not much good at point blank range where the trajectory was flattish. So our Phil was in a very exposed position, not much better than being in a tin piedish. Maybe some splinter protection if he was lucky.
    At a mile range, 8" could penetrate 12"+ of face hardened plate, in many cases. So *everything* on the battleships was vulnerable.

    Of Guadalcanal, American cruisers sank a Japanese battleship, by getting in close, IIRC
    And most cruisers had torpedoes - so it would have seemed even more of a risk as the Italians, like the Japanese and British, had decent ones ab initio. Though, to my surprise, I find on checking that they got left off the Zara class cruisers in the design process - Washington Ttreaty limits and all that.

    Did you see my earlier comment about HMS Formidable finding itself in a battle line with three battleships at the crucial point in the battle?
    FPT Sorry - was called away to dinner and a minor family crisis.

    I did watch that little video whuich you recommended - much better than most such things, thank you - which indeed made that point. This makes me want to fish out m copy of Stern 'Big gun actions' to see what it says ...

    There was apparently some debate as to if it actually fired its guns before being ordered out of the line.
  • glw said:

    Poland has recorded nearly 28k more COVID cases, with a 41% positivity rate.

    Most of Eastern Europe is now suffering badly.

    This is also striking:

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1325175997524828160

    Even if pro rata rather lower than some of the Belgian and Swiss numbers.
    With positivity rates getting this high, I'm not sure even the pro rata numbers are particularly meaningful for these daily test results. One part of the UK's response that has been very valuable is directing some testing resources at the ONS household survey, which must have been a tough call when testing capacity was tighter. But it's so valuable to get a clear-ish picture of spread across the community, include age-groups and regions, without having to worry about confounding factors like total test numbers, whether tests have been concentrated in high-risk areas, changes in eligibility or enthusiasm for testing etc. Countries still relying on the daily test numbers are basically fighting while half-blindfolded.

    Not so many months back, I was reading lots of stuff about "timely and effective government action", "strong public health systems" or various structural factors that confidently explained why places like Argentina and the Czech Republic were having relatively "good" pandemics. I did think "don't judge based on the scores before half-time" but still, look how rapidly things have gone downhill for them - those supposed explanations must have been almost entirely vacuous. Shows how little we understanding about stopping Covid unfortunately, even at a "big picture" level.
    Surprising though it is the UK has one of the best performances in the autumn wave.

    Now if only that imbecile Shapps hadn't been a yes man to the airlines and airports.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    JohnO said:

    And in other news Labour +4 (42 vs 38) in tonight's Opinium

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1325167976073490432
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Stocky said:

    Quincel said:

    Stocky said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    Medea85 said:

    I think there is a none-zero chance that Trump (not wanting to hang around as a lame-duck) might resign and let Pence take over for the transition.

    Though that would be an acceptance of his defeat.
    Betfair punters think there is a 15% chance that he will resign before 20 Jan.

    That market will surely settle at "NO". Even if he resigns. The rules say:

    "For clarity Donald Trump will be deemed to officially cease being President when he is replaced on a permanent basis. Any situation where he steps down on an interim/temporary basis will not count(Updated 05/10/2020 @ 17:00 GMT)"

    I would read that to mean that if he flounces out this won`t count.
    If he resigned and Pence was sworn in wouldn't that count? As opposed to him being temporarily removed by the 25th Amendment, perhaps while undergoing a medical procedure.
    Not sure - which is why I`d avoid this market - rules are too unclear for me to get involved.
    Fair. I'll steer clear. I've got an old Ladbrokes bet on him leaving office in 2021, so hope he doesn't flounce off early.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    MrEd said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:
    I make that fifteen vice-Presidents from Truman, of which six became President, giving Harris a naive probability of 2/5 to subsequently become President herself.
    That’s before factoring in that she’s a useless politician
    Not so useless that she cannot beat Republicans.

    Do I detect a sore loser?
    No, you detect someone who has had Harris as a Senator for several years and is massively unimpressed. She’s wooden and uninspiring.

    Also - traditionally - the job of the Presidential candidate is to win the White House while the VP candidate is focused on supporting senatorial and house candidates. How did she do on that measure?

    Edit: FWIW this is the perfect outcome in my view. Trump is gone, and the manner of his going will condemn him to irrelevance. The Republicans have done well enough in the house and senate to rein in the worst excesses of the nuttier democrats

    Precisely so.
    No, Trump was a symptom, not a cause. The cause has not been addressed, namely a growing proportion of the population is sinking further and further into the mire while more and more wealth is concentrated in the hands of the few.

    And this will only get worse. When you have the CEO of a firm like Lyft, 30-s something (I think), living on the West Coast and a multi-billionaire, talking about how the CV pandemic is a great long-term opportunity for the firm because it means that rising unemployment will mean that more people will want to become Lyft drivers which enables Lyft to pay them less, don't expect America to get happier any time soon.

    Though Biden clearly will try and shift the US to the left economically as a result of that, albeit constrained by a GOP Senate.

    Trump was actually quite good for the bank balances of the super rich, Biden will raise their taxes
  • OllyT said:

    Charles said:

    OllyT said:

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    There are other ways of ensuring small states are treated equally without permanently biasing presidential and Senate elections in the direction of conservative small state rural voters.

    I could probably just about accept keeping the Senate composition as it is if the Presidential election were switched to be being elected by a plurality of voters.

    What justification is there for giving voters in a small state additional weight in Presidential elections? The President ought to e elected on a straight forward one person one vote basis.
    Great. Go and start a campaign to change the constitution instead of whining to me
    What a silly petulant response.

    @Charles here you go:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459

    Bye Boris, labour in the lead again

    You’re relentless, aren’t you? When’s the election again? Presumably nothing will change between now and then...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    JohnO said:

    And in other news Labour +4 (42 vs 38) in tonight's Opinium

    The end of right wing populism is sweeping the globe. I expect Brexit to be cancelled before the end of the year,.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001

    When’s the election again? Presumably nothing will change between now and then...

    Lots will change.

    BoZo will get his jotters for a start
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:
    I make that fifteen vice-Presidents from Truman, of which six became President, giving Harris a naive probability of 2/5 to subsequently become President herself.
    That’s before factoring in that she’s a useless politician
    Not so useless that she cannot beat Republicans.

    Do I detect a sore loser?
    No, you detect someone who has had Harris as a Senator for several years and is massively unimpressed. She’s wooden and uninspiring.

    Also - traditionally - the job of the Presidential candidate is to win the White House while the VP candidate is focused on supporting senatorial and house candidates. How did she do on that measure?

    Edit: FWIW this is the perfect outcome in my view. Trump is gone, and the manner of his going will condemn him to irrelevance. The Republicans have done well enough in the house and senate to rein in the worst excesses of the nuttier democrats

    Precisely so.
    No, Trump was a symptom, not a cause. The cause has not been addressed, namely a growing proportion of the population is sinking further and further into the mire while more and more wealth is concentrated in the hands of the few.

    And this will only get worse. When you have the CEO of a firm like Lyft, 30-s something (I think), living on the West Coast and a multi-billionaire, talking about how the CV pandemic is a great long-term opportunity for the firm because it means that rising unemployment will mean that more people will want to become Lyft drivers which enables Lyft to pay them less, don't expect America to get happier any time soon.

    Though Biden clearly will try and shift the US to the left economically as a result of that, albeit constrained by a GOP Senate.

    Trump was actually quite good for the bank balances of the super rich, Biden will raise their taxes
    I suspect he will try, and I suspect he will fail until at least 2022 and perhaps afterwards. We'll see, but I think GOP compromise will be very minimal. God only knows what will happen if a SCOTUS Justice dies in early 2021.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    If Democrat candidates for President were winning through the electoral college, but narrowly losing the national popular vote at the same time, we'd hear far less of this argument.
    On PB, perhaps, but I reckon that in the US we’d be hearing about it a lot more.
  • From the latest Opinium poll

    Voting intention in seats gained by the Tories at GE2019

    CON 33%
    LAB 50%
    LD 10%

    Note this is a small sub-sample with a high margin of error
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    isam said:
    Her name tells you the tweeter feels strongly about it.
    That tweet borders on the pornographic though, given the number of dicks on display.
    But most, useless ones.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459

    glw said:

    Poland has recorded nearly 28k more COVID cases, with a 41% positivity rate.

    Most of Eastern Europe is now suffering badly.

    This is also striking:

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1325175997524828160

    Even if pro rata rather lower than some of the Belgian and Swiss numbers.
    With positivity rates getting this high, I'm not sure even the pro rata numbers are particularly meaningful for these daily test results. One part of the UK's response that has been very valuable is directing some testing resources at the ONS household survey, which must have been a tough call when testing capacity was tighter. But it's so valuable to get a clear-ish picture of spread across the community, include age-groups and regions, without having to worry about confounding factors like total test numbers, whether tests have been concentrated in high-risk areas, changes in eligibility or enthusiasm for testing etc. Countries still relying on the daily test numbers are basically fighting while half-blindfolded.

    Not so many months back, I was reading lots of stuff about "timely and effective government action", "strong public health systems" or various structural factors that confidently explained why places like Argentina and the Czech Republic were having relatively "good" pandemics. I did think "don't judge based on the scores before half-time" but still, look how rapidly things have gone downhill for them - those supposed explanations must have been almost entirely vacuous. Shows how little we understanding about stopping Covid unfortunately, even at a "big picture" level.
    Surprising though it is the UK has one of the best performances in the autumn wave.

    Now if only that imbecile Shapps hadn't been a yes man to the airlines and airports.
    #hubris and #sofar
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    An even more ambitious bridge than his other bridges
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,593

    From the latest Opinium poll

    Voting intention in seats gained by the Tories at GE2019

    CON 33%
    LAB 50%
    LD 10%

    Note this is a small sub-sample with a high margin of error

    What are the changes in share
  • IanB2 said:

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    If Democrat candidates for President were winning through the electoral college, but narrowly losing the national popular vote at the same time, we'd hear far less of this argument.
    On PB, perhaps, but I reckon that in the US we’d be hearing about it a lot more.
    Since 1824, it's only happened to Republican candidates, on four occasions: 1876, 1888, 2000 and 2016.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:
    I make that fifteen vice-Presidents from Truman, of which six became President, giving Harris a naive probability of 2/5 to subsequently become President herself.
    That’s before factoring in that she’s a useless politician
    Not so useless that she cannot beat Republicans.

    Do I detect a sore loser?
    No, you detect someone who has had Harris as a Senator for several years and is massively unimpressed. She’s wooden and uninspiring.

    Also - traditionally - the job of the Presidential candidate is to win the White House while the VP candidate is focused on supporting senatorial and house candidates. How did she do on that measure?

    Edit: FWIW this is the perfect outcome in my view. Trump is gone, and the manner of his going will condemn him to irrelevance. The Republicans have done well enough in the house and senate to rein in the worst excesses of the nuttier democrats

    Precisely so.
    No, Trump was a symptom, not a cause. The cause has not been addressed, namely a growing proportion of the population is sinking further and further into the mire while more and more wealth is concentrated in the hands of the few.

    And this will only get worse. When you have the CEO of a firm like Lyft, 30-s something (I think), living on the West Coast and a multi-billionaire, talking about how the CV pandemic is a great long-term opportunity for the firm because it means that rising unemployment will mean that more people will want to become Lyft drivers which enables Lyft to pay them less, don't expect America to get happier any time soon.

    Though Biden clearly will try and shift the US to the left economically as a result of that, albeit constrained by a GOP Senate.

    Trump was actually quite good for the bank balances of the super rich, Biden will raise their taxes
    He may have been good for their bank balances but he at least gave the impression he also gave some sort of care about the American worker. Pre-CV, it was the non-college educated workers who were seeing the fastest wage increases.

    Biden will do nothing on that front. American companies will no longer feel the need to bring operations back to America and will outsource again. The American worker is expected to get whacked again.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    Yes - people.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,699
    The covid figures in Europe are looking really bad.

    Poland:
    - New cases: 27,875
    - Positivity rate: 41.7% (+9)
    - In hospital: 20,249 (+770)
    - On ventilator: 1,813 (+110)
    - New deaths: 349

    Italy:
    - New cases: 39,811
    - Positivity rate: 28.9% (+0.8)
    - In hospital: 25,109 (+1,104)
    - In ICU: 2,634 (+119)
    - New deaths: 425
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited November 2020

    From the latest Opinium poll

    Voting intention in seats gained by the Tories at GE2019

    CON 33%
    LAB 50%
    LD 10%

    Note this is a small sub-sample with a high margin of error

    Tories still ahead 45% to 38% in seats they held in 2019, so most likely it signals the Tories lose their majority and back to a hung parliament with Labour probably largest party this time unlike 2017, still not a Labour majority

    https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/uk-voting-intention-5th-november-2020/
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    HYUFD said:
    That links up with the Wisconsin story. An interesting 72 hours.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,100
    edited November 2020
    Alistair said:

    JohnO said:

    And in other news Labour +4 (42 vs 38) in tonight's Opinium

    The end of right wing populism is sweeping the globe. I expect Brexit to be cancelled before the end of the year,.
    Is it though...Eastern Europe, is still very popular e.g. Poland re-elected one. Australia voted for a very right wing government. Macron is very unpopular on France, with Le Pen waiting in the wings.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    The covid figures in Europe are looking really bad.

    Poland:
    - New cases: 27,875
    - Positivity rate: 41.7% (+9)
    - In hospital: 20,249 (+770)
    - On ventilator: 1,813 (+110)
    - New deaths: 349

    Italy:
    - New cases: 39,811
    - Positivity rate: 28.9% (+0.8)
    - In hospital: 25,109 (+1,104)
    - In ICU: 2,634 (+119)
    - New deaths: 425

    We're doomed but at least we lived long enough to see Trump kicked out.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Starry said:

    Charles said:

    @OllyT

    Here’s the book you were asking about on the last thread re: why Americans are different

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chosen-People-shaped-England-America/dp/0340786574

    Separately I don’t think you can just state the EC is “unfair” because it overweighted small states.

    It is absolutely fair to states because it treats them all equally. You just think that another metric is more appropriate

    If Democrat candidates for President were winning through the electoral college, but narrowly losing the national popular vote at the same time, we'd hear far less of this argument.
    Nonsense. The Republicans are already complaining even though they lost both the popular vote and the EC. Think what would happen if Trump had won the popular vote but lost the EC?!
    For those people advocating electing a POTUS by popular vote, that would be fine if the margin was always 4 or 5 million votes. If the margin was 4000, you have a big problem.
    And it is a feature/bug of FPTP 2-party systems that sooner rather than later you will get a close result.
    Yes, but you are not electing people to represent the states, as you are in the senate. The president represents the whole country and should be elected directly with a direct mandate based on OPOV.
  • The covid figures in Europe are looking really bad.

    Poland:
    - New cases: 27,875
    - Positivity rate: 41.7% (+9)
    - In hospital: 20,249 (+770)
    - On ventilator: 1,813 (+110)
    - New deaths: 349

    Italy:
    - New cases: 39,811
    - Positivity rate: 28.9% (+0.8)
    - In hospital: 25,109 (+1,104)
    - In ICU: 2,634 (+119)
    - New deaths: 425

    Is there anywhere in Europe where it isn't? Germany isn't looking good this time. Hows Greece going?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Alistair said:

    JohnO said:

    And in other news Labour +4 (42 vs 38) in tonight's Opinium

    The end of right wing populism is sweeping the globe. I expect Brexit to be cancelled before the end of the year,.
    Is it though...Eastern Europe, is still very popular e.g. Poland re-elected one. Australia voted for a very right wing government. Macron is very unpopular on France, with Le Pen waiting in the wings.
    Right wing populism is still very much there because a large part of the population feels as though it has been sh*t upon from a large height. Anyone who thinks it is going away is very much mistaken.
This discussion has been closed.