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CNN calls it for Biden – politicalbetting.com

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  • For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    Of course he is. Biden has just won election with a platform not particularly different to Johnson's. On almost every global issue like Climate Change they are close. Biden isn't a leftwinger he's just won election with record numbers of Republicans campaigning for him.
    You are nuts.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Is that a label Boris himself adopted? If not, then who the hell cares if someone else called him Britain Trump?(Trump has said it, but I don't trust his judgement, do you?)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited November 2020

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    Out of the G7 leaders I think it is fair to say that Merkel, Macron, Trudeau, Conte and even Suga will have a closer relationship with Biden than Boris will, Boris will find himself a bit isolated among the main G7 leaders now Trump has gone, though he has built working relationships with them all, especially Suga thanks to the UK Japan trade deal and am sure he will do the same with Biden
  • kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Are you saying Boris does not share those interests
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583
    This is what '97 felt like on our side of the political divide. Enjoy!
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,269

    Andy_JS said:

    I've obviously made a mathematical mistake here and want some help to know what exactly it is.

    In the census data for Michigan is says the total population is 9,986,857

    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/MI

    21.5% of those are under 18 so that makes 78.5% of that figure which is 7,839,682 that are eligible to vote (a little more as perhaps the population has increased from 2010, but a little less as you need to deduct foreign nationals and anyone else excluded).

    The number of registered voters in Michigan is 8,128,928

    https://mvic.sos.state.mi.us/VoterCount

    This is higher than the number of eligible voters, which is obviously wrong somehow.

    You keep on falling for fake/outdated news, I'm embarrassed for you.

    Social media users have been sharing content online that claims that eight key election states had a higher number of votes cast than there were registered voters, therefore being evidence of electoral fraud. This claim is false as the numbers of registered voters presented are outdated.....

    MICHIGAN

    The posts give Michigan’s registered voters total as 5,453,000 and projected votes as 5,716,581.

    The Michigan Voter Information Center has registered voter statistics on its website here . The number shown at the time of publication is 8,127,804 (no date). This number is significantly higher than the number shown in the claim.

    Michigan allows same day voter registration ( here and here ) .

    The Detroit Free Press reported that voter turnout in Michigan is projected to be between 53% to 55% ( here ) .


    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-table-voter-registration-st/fact-checktable-shows-outdated-voter-registration-numbers-for-eight-key-states-idUSKBN27L2Y8

    Also the census figure is an estimate from 2019.
    You didn't read my post again, I never mentioned the amount of votes.

    Try reading it again.
    The population of Michigan is estimated to be almost exactly 10 million.

    7.85 million are estimated to be 18 or over.

    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/MI/PST045219#

    Exactly, so how can you have 8,127,804 registered voters if the population over 18 is 7.85 million?
    Because

    The census figure is nearly two years out of date, and an estimate, and I'll let you into a secret, estimates can be wrong, the clue is in the name.
    Sure and 100% of them registered to vote. Sounds totally plausible.
    You do realise Michigan sent everyone a mail in ballot.

    They are very big on voter drives.

    You can thank the GOP controlled Michigan Senate and House for that.
    Whenever I see these mad posts by DA I want a mute button. I never mute people on old school forums. If I want screeching conspiracy wank I’ll read Twitter comments.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    @DAlexander

    If there was vote fraud, why:

    (1) is the result almost exactly in line with the Electoral College you'd expect with a four point national lead?
    (2) were the swings to Biden biggest in Republican run states such as North Carolina and Georgia, rather than Democrat run ones like Pennsylvania and Wisconsin?
  • kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    On matters of substance they'll be pretty well aligned - EXCEPT on the IMB/Ireland where Biden will take & hold a tough line. And as negotiators the Irish have run rings round the UK in the EU.
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    edited November 2020
    C’mon Betfair
  • HYUFD said:

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    Out of the G7 leaders I think it is fair to say that Merkel, Macron, Trudeau, Conte and even Suga will have a closer relationship with Biden than Boris will, Boris will find himself a bit isolated among the main G7 leaders now Trump has gone, though he has built working relationships with them all, especially Suga thanks to the UK Japan trade deal and am sure he will do the same with Biden
    Sensible and accurate post, I'm glad not all Tories - of course Philip voted for Farage so I suspect sensible is perhaps stretching it - are nuts.
  • Coronavirus is another issue where Boris is far, far closer to Biden in his platform than Trump. While Trump was claiming to get back to normal Boris was putting us back into lockdown.
  • dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1325118629155917833

    Moderate and sensible politics is the recipe of the 2020 and a return to Labour in Government, I feel it.

    I don't get this weird competition of who can get their tweet out fastest.
    Wasn't that long ago that The Democrats in The South were the party of segregation...
    Yeah, there's laying it on a bit thick, and laying it too thick. I don't think even the Democrats believe that "the Democrats have always shared Labour's values", part of their own party's past contains a lot of pain for them. And vice versa, there's a few of Labour's values that plenty of Democrats are very keen to emphasise to their electorate they don't share!
  • Andy_JS said:

    I've obviously made a mathematical mistake here and want some help to know what exactly it is.

    In the census data for Michigan is says the total population is 9,986,857

    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/MI

    21.5% of those are under 18 so that makes 78.5% of that figure which is 7,839,682 that are eligible to vote (a little more as perhaps the population has increased from 2010, but a little less as you need to deduct foreign nationals and anyone else excluded).

    The number of registered voters in Michigan is 8,128,928

    https://mvic.sos.state.mi.us/VoterCount

    This is higher than the number of eligible voters, which is obviously wrong somehow.

    You keep on falling for fake/outdated news, I'm embarrassed for you.

    Social media users have been sharing content online that claims that eight key election states had a higher number of votes cast than there were registered voters, therefore being evidence of electoral fraud. This claim is false as the numbers of registered voters presented are outdated.....

    MICHIGAN

    The posts give Michigan’s registered voters total as 5,453,000 and projected votes as 5,716,581.

    The Michigan Voter Information Center has registered voter statistics on its website here . The number shown at the time of publication is 8,127,804 (no date). This number is significantly higher than the number shown in the claim.

    Michigan allows same day voter registration ( here and here ) .

    The Detroit Free Press reported that voter turnout in Michigan is projected to be between 53% to 55% ( here ) .


    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-table-voter-registration-st/fact-checktable-shows-outdated-voter-registration-numbers-for-eight-key-states-idUSKBN27L2Y8

    Also the census figure is an estimate from 2019.
    You didn't read my post again, I never mentioned the amount of votes.

    Try reading it again.
    The population of Michigan is estimated to be almost exactly 10 million.

    7.85 million are estimated to be 18 or over.

    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/MI/PST045219#

    Exactly, so how can you have 8,127,804 registered voters if the population over 18 is 7.85 million?
    Because

    The census figure is nearly two years out of date, and an estimate, and I'll let you into a secret, estimates can be wrong, the clue is in the name.
    Sure and 100% of them registered to vote. Sounds totally plausible.
    Population increase?

    2010 Census = 309 million
    2019 estimate = 328 million
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    Indeed but Boris will either have to now scrap the Internal Market Bill or get a FTA with the EU to minimise its impact or Biden and Pelosi have been clear there will be no UK and US FTA
    I have no care for a US trade deal

    I do want a TPPA
    Which will take years to negotiate and involve multiple nations so still no substitute for no UK and EU or UK and US FTA
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    This is what '97 felt like on our side of the political divide. Enjoy!
    Coming soon to the UK.
  • For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    Of course he is. Biden has just won election with a platform not particularly different to Johnson's. On almost every global issue like Climate Change they are close. Biden isn't a leftwinger he's just won election with record numbers of Republicans campaigning for him.
    You are nuts.
    Name a policy difference between Biden and Boris where Boris is closer to Trump than Biden. I've named half a dozen where he's closer to Biden so what can you name?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    @DAlexander

    If there was vote fraud, why:

    (1) is the result almost exactly in line with the Electoral College you'd expect with a four point national lead?
    (2) were the swings to Biden biggest in Republican run states such as North Carolina and Georgia, rather than Democrat run ones like Pennsylvania and Wisconsin?

    And, err, Michigan has a GOP majority in both the upper and lower tier of the state house.
  • Coronavirus is another issue where Boris is far, far closer to Biden in his platform than Trump. While Trump was claiming to get back to normal Boris was putting us back into lockdown.

    Just checking, are you now in favour of lockdown because Johnson is or are you still against it?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Jonathan said:
    Are back in America. Here? I hope so. But we didn't need to wait for the end of Trump to be moderate again, nor will the end of Trump guarantee moderation again. Or influence it all, unless we ascribe Voldemort levels of influence to Trump.

    This is a great moment. But the USA is not the UK, nor France nor any other nation. It's leader is important, but doesn't say anything about how things will pan out in other places. Someone wanting the Tories or BP (or whatever they are called now) to be extreme right wing is going to change their mind now that Biden not Trump is to be President? Or if it happens is that down to trends in this country irrespective of the US result?
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Is that a label Boris himself adopted? If not, then who the hell cares if someone else called him Britain Trump?(Trump has said it, but I don't trust his judgement, do you?)
    Precisely.
  • AP gives Biden 290
    DDHQ have him on 284
  • For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    Of course he is. Biden has just won election with a platform not particularly different to Johnson's. On almost every global issue like Climate Change they are close. Biden isn't a leftwinger he's just won election with record numbers of Republicans campaigning for him.
    You are nuts.
    Name a policy difference between Biden and Boris where Boris is closer to Trump than Biden. I've named half a dozen where he's closer to Biden so what can you name?
    I'm saying the idea he's anything like Biden is nuts. No sensible person thinks they are alike.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    Tony Schaffer on PM talking outright nonsense.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,996

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Is that a label Boris himself adopted? If not, then who the hell cares if someone else called him Britain Trump?(Trump has said it, but I don't trust his judgement, do you?)
    Precisely.
    It was in fact a case of Trump trying to be more popular by comparing himself to Boris who is sometimes forgotten to be a big election winner like him or not.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,761
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    HYUFD said:

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    Out of the G7 leaders I think it is fair to say that Merkel, Macron, Trudeau, Conte and even Suga will have a closer relationship with Biden than Boris will, Boris will find himself a bit isolated among the main G7 leaders now Trump has gone, though he has built working relationships with them all, especially Suga thanks to the UK Japan trade deal and am sure he will do the same with Biden
    They probably will, and Boris will have work to do, but the extent of relationship and influence is far too often overstated as though it is all that will matter.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Is that a label Boris himself adopted? If not, then who the hell cares if someone else called him Britain Trump?(Trump has said it, but I don't trust his judgement, do you?)
    Precisely.
    Boris developed the exact same movement in the UK as Trump did in the US. To deny it all of a sudden is rather laughable. Take back control = make America Great again.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583

    kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Are you saying Boris does not share those interests
    No I am not. But as our very own HYUFD has suggested on many occasions, a Trump victory would have been far more optimal for Johnson. I am not sure I completely agree with that but I suspect Johnson did.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    Of course he is. Biden has just won election with a platform not particularly different to Johnson's. On almost every global issue like Climate Change they are close. Biden isn't a leftwinger he's just won election with record numbers of Republicans campaigning for him.
    You are nuts.
    Name a policy difference between Biden and Boris where Boris is closer to Trump than Biden. I've named half a dozen where he's closer to Biden so what can you name?
    1. Europe. Joe is very pro the EU. Massive, massive, issue. It's the only reason Johnson is even in No.10

    2. The Northern Ireland Peace Process. Johnson and Cummings don't give a fig about it, as evidenced by their sell out. Joe Biden is passionate and will have support across the Senate.

    As Brexit is all that defines Johnson, that's all that matters.
  • Trump and Johnson have a lot in common, winning elections despite the majority voting against them. Hopefully in 2024 Johnson will get his just desserts and then a proper electoral system to stop this madman ever being elected again.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1325118214448230406

    Johnson rapidly trying to cultivate a relationship now the Donald gamble has failed.

    Now for the Brexit capitulation.

    Number 10 is professional and diplomatic. Boris will congratulate Biden in person on the phone before he speaks to the public.

    Biden won't be taking a call from Keir today so he can just Tweet away.
    It's also tricky as the Networks don't actually decide who is President - and in a case where the loser hasn't conceded (a very unusual circumstance) its a bit of a bind for any government. It is still possible, in theory, for Trump to win this, albeit very unlikely.
    I think it's probably more true to say that it's possible for the US to descend into civil war. Because the Supreme Court ain't overturning a 75,000 vote lead in Pennsylvania without incredibly compelling evidence. (And they would, I suspect simply order a revote rather than nullifying the vote. And I'd expect the revote to be overwhelmingly for Biden if they did that. See Winchester 1997.)
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861

    Trump political obituaries are starting:

    I win, I win, I always win. In the end I always win,” Donald Trump once said. Now, though, for the first time in his life, in a public and historic way, he has lost.

    As he has so relentlessly in the past, Trump is fighting against being tagged with a label that he has considered toxic to his brand. He has refused to concede. “The simple fact is this election is far from over,” he said in a statement just after the election was called. He promised to fight the results in court, alleging, without evidence, that a massive electoral fraud had robbed him of victory. But his talent for recasting reality to his advantage was incapable of overcoming a statistical truth not only accepted but dictated by the majority of the nation. He lost.


    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/07/donald-trump-is-a-loser-434103?fbclid=IwAR1Aj37KGNJEpcXnbC8vInOoi-66JS-2RgmUrpDLdj6KflSFFWYPJ5UFlW8

    This reminds me of my reaction after Argentina won the World Cup in 1978. I refused to accept the result and considered that Holland had won. Trump's reaction would be wrong but nevertheless understandable if he were 10, but as I understand the US persidential election requires that their candidates have to be over 40.
  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 431
    edited November 2020
    Thoughts on whether we'll now start to hear congratulations for Biden from those Republican politicians who reluctantly supported Trump? Might help the people around Trump to face reality?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,745
    edited November 2020
    Can someone check if Contrarian and Brokenwheel are ok? They were posting quite prolifically until Wednesday then nada. I feel that only the most dire circumstance would make them miss this PB moment.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,458

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    I actually agree with you, up to a point. I suspect Boris does privately think Trump is a complete idiot. Trouble is, a large minority of Boris's supporters, including a minority of his MPs, are rather fond of Trump. You couldn't say the same for Macron's followers - it's Le Pen's lot that like Trump.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052

    Andy_JS said:

    I've obviously made a mathematical mistake here and want some help to know what exactly it is.

    In the census data for Michigan is says the total population is 9,986,857

    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/MI

    21.5% of those are under 18 so that makes 78.5% of that figure which is 7,839,682 that are eligible to vote (a little more as perhaps the population has increased from 2010, but a little less as you need to deduct foreign nationals and anyone else excluded).

    The number of registered voters in Michigan is 8,128,928

    https://mvic.sos.state.mi.us/VoterCount

    This is higher than the number of eligible voters, which is obviously wrong somehow.

    You keep on falling for fake/outdated news, I'm embarrassed for you.

    Social media users have been sharing content online that claims that eight key election states had a higher number of votes cast than there were registered voters, therefore being evidence of electoral fraud. This claim is false as the numbers of registered voters presented are outdated.....

    MICHIGAN

    The posts give Michigan’s registered voters total as 5,453,000 and projected votes as 5,716,581.

    The Michigan Voter Information Center has registered voter statistics on its website here . The number shown at the time of publication is 8,127,804 (no date). This number is significantly higher than the number shown in the claim.

    Michigan allows same day voter registration ( here and here ) .

    The Detroit Free Press reported that voter turnout in Michigan is projected to be between 53% to 55% ( here ) .


    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-table-voter-registration-st/fact-checktable-shows-outdated-voter-registration-numbers-for-eight-key-states-idUSKBN27L2Y8

    Also the census figure is an estimate from 2019.
    You didn't read my post again, I never mentioned the amount of votes.

    Try reading it again.
    The population of Michigan is estimated to be almost exactly 10 million.

    7.85 million are estimated to be 18 or over.

    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/MI/PST045219#

    Exactly, so how can you have 8,127,804 registered voters if the population over 18 is 7.85 million?
    Because

    The census figure is nearly two years out of date, and an estimate, and I'll let you into a secret, estimates can be wrong, the clue is in the name.
    Sure and 100% of them registered to vote. Sounds totally plausible.
    But only 5 400 000 did vote...
  • For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    Of course he is. Biden has just won election with a platform not particularly different to Johnson's. On almost every global issue like Climate Change they are close. Biden isn't a leftwinger he's just won election with record numbers of Republicans campaigning for him.
    You are nuts.
    Name a policy difference between Biden and Boris where Boris is closer to Trump than Biden. I've named half a dozen where he's closer to Biden so what can you name?
    Johnson doesn't give two hoots for the GFA.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Tories rapidly about turning and becoming liberal again.

    Best not do it too much, some of those Democrat supporters are not as liberal as the others.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 6,167
    edited November 2020
    eristdoof said:

    Trump political obituaries are starting:

    I win, I win, I always win. In the end I always win,” Donald Trump once said. Now, though, for the first time in his life, in a public and historic way, he has lost.

    As he has so relentlessly in the past, Trump is fighting against being tagged with a label that he has considered toxic to his brand. He has refused to concede. “The simple fact is this election is far from over,” he said in a statement just after the election was called. He promised to fight the results in court, alleging, without evidence, that a massive electoral fraud had robbed him of victory. But his talent for recasting reality to his advantage was incapable of overcoming a statistical truth not only accepted but dictated by the majority of the nation. He lost.


    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/07/donald-trump-is-a-loser-434103?fbclid=IwAR1Aj37KGNJEpcXnbC8vInOoi-66JS-2RgmUrpDLdj6KflSFFWYPJ5UFlW8

    This reminds me of my reaction after Argentina won the World Cup in 1978. I refused to accept the result and considered that Holland had won. Trump's reaction would be wrong but nevertheless understandable if he were 10, but as I understand the US persidential election requires that their candidates have to be over 40.
    35, not 40. Indeed, Pete Buttigieg from previous thread is under 40.
  • For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    Of course he is. Biden has just won election with a platform not particularly different to Johnson's. On almost every global issue like Climate Change they are close. Biden isn't a leftwinger he's just won election with record numbers of Republicans campaigning for him.
    You are nuts.
    Name a policy difference between Biden and Boris where Boris is closer to Trump than Biden. I've named half a dozen where he's closer to Biden so what can you name?
    Johnson doesn't give two hoots for the GFA.

    I am sure in years to come we will look back at the moment when he decided to undermine the GFA with his bill as the moment everything changed.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,761

    This is what '97 felt like on our side of the political divide. Enjoy!
    Yep its fantastic. All the soaps will be back, all the quiz shows, probably won't have to listen to Wolf Blitzer for a while. Its all good.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    Paddys have a when will trump publicly concede market.
    2/1 before nov 13th. 1/3 nov 13th or later or never.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    Andy_JS said:

    I've obviously made a mathematical mistake here and want some help to know what exactly it is.

    In the census data for Michigan is says the total population is 9,986,857

    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/MI

    21.5% of those are under 18 so that makes 78.5% of that figure which is 7,839,682 that are eligible to vote (a little more as perhaps the population has increased from 2010, but a little less as you need to deduct foreign nationals and anyone else excluded).

    The number of registered voters in Michigan is 8,128,928

    https://mvic.sos.state.mi.us/VoterCount

    This is higher than the number of eligible voters, which is obviously wrong somehow.

    You keep on falling for fake/outdated news, I'm embarrassed for you.

    Social media users have been sharing content online that claims that eight key election states had a higher number of votes cast than there were registered voters, therefore being evidence of electoral fraud. This claim is false as the numbers of registered voters presented are outdated.....

    MICHIGAN

    The posts give Michigan’s registered voters total as 5,453,000 and projected votes as 5,716,581.

    The Michigan Voter Information Center has registered voter statistics on its website here . The number shown at the time of publication is 8,127,804 (no date). This number is significantly higher than the number shown in the claim.

    Michigan allows same day voter registration ( here and here ) .

    The Detroit Free Press reported that voter turnout in Michigan is projected to be between 53% to 55% ( here ) .


    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-table-voter-registration-st/fact-checktable-shows-outdated-voter-registration-numbers-for-eight-key-states-idUSKBN27L2Y8

    Also the census figure is an estimate from 2019.
    You didn't read my post again, I never mentioned the amount of votes.

    Try reading it again.
    The population of Michigan is estimated to be almost exactly 10 million.

    7.85 million are estimated to be 18 or over.

    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/MI/PST045219#

    Exactly, so how can you have 8,127,804 registered voters if the population over 18 is 7.85 million?
    That's a 2010 number (when the last census was held).

    In the last decade, the population of the US has grown by 7.7% (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_United_States). And because Americans are having fewer children, and living longer, the number of adults has grown even quicker (increasing from 76% to 78% of the total population). See: https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/99-total-population-by-child-and-adult-populations#detailed/1/any/false/1729,37,871,870,573,869,36,868,867,133/39,40,41/416,417
  • kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Are you saying Boris does not share those interests
    No I am not. But as our very own HYUFD has suggested on many occasions, a Trump victory would have been far more optimal for Johnson. I am not sure I completely agree with that but I suspect Johnson did.
    I expect Boris and HMG to cooperate with Biden and the US on many issues

    There is quite a lot of hysteria going on at present but it will calm down
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited November 2020

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    I actually agree with you, up to a point. I suspect Boris does privately think Trump is a complete idiot. Trouble is, a large minority of Boris's supporters, including a minority of his MPs, are rather fond of Trump. You couldn't say the same for Macron's followers - it's Le Pen's lot that like Trump.
    There is a strand within the Tories that think that way it seems. HYUFD is no seer, but as an ultra loyal party member I'd think his perception of how Boris might pivot in the coming months, in a way which will undermine some of those people, makes sense. Before there might well have been some advantage to indulging that strand of MPs and membership, but there's no benefit to it now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    Of course he is. Biden has just won election with a platform not particularly different to Johnson's. On almost every global issue like Climate Change they are close. Biden isn't a leftwinger he's just won election with record numbers of Republicans campaigning for him.
    Biden may not be Sanders or Corbyn but ideologically there is no question he is closer to Starmer than Boris, only the GOP Senate will slow a clear shift leftwards in the US for now
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,606

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    For factual data on who likes who....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hne29xkUPbg
  • @HYUFD's analysis is something to listen to, I expect he will be proven correct.

    @HYUFD, what do you regard as the fate of the Tories in regards to Farage?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Not sure any u turn on tone or policy will fix Boris’ Trumpian relationship with the truth.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583

    kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Are you saying Boris does not share those interests
    P.S. Has Johnson congratated Biden yet? Like Starmer, Sturgeon, Drakeford (in two languages)...have.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    rcs1000 said:

    https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1325118214448230406

    Johnson rapidly trying to cultivate a relationship now the Donald gamble has failed.

    Now for the Brexit capitulation.

    Number 10 is professional and diplomatic. Boris will congratulate Biden in person on the phone before he speaks to the public.

    Biden won't be taking a call from Keir today so he can just Tweet away.
    It's also tricky as the Networks don't actually decide who is President - and in a case where the loser hasn't conceded (a very unusual circumstance) its a bit of a bind for any government. It is still possible, in theory, for Trump to win this, albeit very unlikely.
    I think it's probably more true to say that it's possible for the US to descend into civil war. Because the Supreme Court ain't overturning a 75,000 vote lead in Pennsylvania without incredibly compelling evidence. (And they would, I suspect simply order a revote rather than nullifying the vote. And I'd expect the revote to be overwhelmingly for Biden if they did that. See Winchester 1997.)
    Winchester 1997 is not really comparable. In WH2020 there were very few third party votes to go to Biden second time round, and somehow I think that if after 4 years of that, and he still gets 70 Million people to vote for him, most will stick with him second time round.
  • kle4 said:
    Yes. She's caddying for Trump
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Is that a label Boris himself adopted? If not, then who the hell cares if someone else called him Britain Trump?(Trump has said it, but I don't trust his judgement, do you?)
    Precisely.
    Boris developed the exact same movement in the UK as Trump did in the US. To deny it all of a sudden is rather laughable. Take back control = make America Great again.
    Exact same movement? Boris has indulged in Covid denial and is obsessed with gun rights, religious conservatism etc?

    If someone wants to argue the movements are similar, even very similar, fine, but exact same? As President Biden said, 'Come on, man!'.
  • kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Are you saying Boris does not share those interests
    P.S. Has Johnson congratated Biden yet? Like Starmer, Sturgeon, Drakeford (in two languages)...have.
    When Cummings lets him out from potty time, he will surely be allowed to say something Cummings approves of
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @DAlexander

    If there was vote fraud, why:

    (1) is the result almost exactly in line with the Electoral College you'd expect with a four point national lead?
    (2) were the swings to Biden biggest in Republican run states such as North Carolina and Georgia, rather than Democrat run ones like Pennsylvania and Wisconsin?

    And, err, Michigan has a GOP majority in both the upper and lower tier of the state house.
    Yes, but it has a Democratic Governor.

    To make it absolutely bullet proof, I'm looking solely at states where it's Republican all the way down:

    - North Carolina
    - Georgia

    oh yes... and

    - Arizona, which also had a bigger swing to the Democrats that Pennsylvania or Michigan or Wisconsin
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Is that a label Boris himself adopted? If not, then who the hell cares if someone else called him Britain Trump?(Trump has said it, but I don't trust his judgement, do you?)
    Ancient history was never my strong point, but wasn't Farage the bloke Trump called "Britain Trump"?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    Fox calls NV.

    290 up.
  • Can someone check if Contrarian and Brokenwheel are ok? They were posting quite prolifically until Wednesday then nada. I feel that only the most dire circumstance would make them miss this PB moment.

    I'll conduct some welfare checks on them, it's what the site editorial team should do.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,723
    edited November 2020
    kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Everything's got to be us vs them. I thought I read that Biden had made it as far as he has by making deals with people he isn't ideologically on the same side as? Maybe that was the old Joe, the left seem to hope so

    NO MORE DIVISION!
  • https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1306334039557586944

    Biden and Johnson have lots in common!
  • HYUFD said:

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    Out of the G7 leaders I think it is fair to say that Merkel, Macron, Trudeau, Conte and even Suga will have a closer relationship with Biden than Boris will, Boris will find himself a bit isolated among the main G7 leaders now Trump has gone, though he has built working relationships with them all, especially Suga thanks to the UK Japan trade deal and am sure he will do the same with Biden
    Sensible and accurate post, I'm glad not all Tories - of course Philip voted for Farage so I suspect sensible is perhaps stretching it - are nuts.
    I didn't vote for Farage. I voted to get rid of Theresa May and for Farage to be made redundant.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Is that a label Boris himself adopted? If not, then who the hell cares if someone else called him Britain Trump?(Trump has said it, but I don't trust his judgement, do you?)
    Ancient history was never my strong point, but wasn't Farage the bloke Trump called "Britain Trump"?
    He definitely also said people called Boris that. Which is a self fulfilling prophecy.

    I suspect to Trump the only types of leaders are those who are like him, and those who are not, when it is a much wider range. But western media has fuelled his obsession by referring to other leaders that way, hence hte Brazilian Trump (Bolsanaro) and Trump of the East (Duterte), both whom have awfulness quite distinct from any similarity with Trump.
  • HYUFD said:

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    Out of the G7 leaders I think it is fair to say that Merkel, Macron, Trudeau, Conte and even Suga will have a closer relationship with Biden than Boris will, Boris will find himself a bit isolated among the main G7 leaders now Trump has gone, though he has built working relationships with them all, especially Suga thanks to the UK Japan trade deal and am sure he will do the same with Biden
    Sensible and accurate post, I'm glad not all Tories - of course Philip voted for Farage so I suspect sensible is perhaps stretching it - are nuts.
    I didn't vote for Farage. I voted to get rid of Theresa May and for Farage to be made redundant.
    So when you voted Tory in 2019, did you not vote for Johnson?
  • isamisam Posts: 40,723
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    ping said:

    Farage £10k poorer

    Unless he laid it off at 1/4
    Or was just taking part in a paid ad...
    (Though would he not have had to declare that ?)
    Don't say that, he wont have lost the money then!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,392
    Must be a lot of Biden supporters round here, judging by the number of fireworks being set off.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    For factual data on who likes who....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hne29xkUPbg
    That just proves Johnson might be two-faced, not Johnson supports Biden.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    rcs1000 said:

    @DAlexander

    If there was vote fraud, why:

    (1) is the result almost exactly in line with the Electoral College you'd expect with a four point national lead?
    (2) were the swings to Biden biggest in Republican run states such as North Carolina and Georgia, rather than Democrat run ones like Pennsylvania and Wisconsin?

    Come on, this is the key point you keep missing. If there's fraud, you's see different results in Democratic states (where they fiddled the vote) and Republican states (where they didn't).

    If you look across the US, then (outside Florida) you see exactly the results you'd expect for a 4-4.25% national Biden lead.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    For factual data on who likes who....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hne29xkUPbg
    That just proves Johnson might be two-faced, not Johnson supports Biden.
    Indeed. As Rory Stewart so memorably wrote this week.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2020

    This is what '97 felt like on our side of the political divide. Enjoy!
    It really isn't. 2008 was. '97 people everybody thought Blair would win and plenty of Tory thought he a very capable leader (even if they didn't vote for him). There was a level of optimism. Economy was on the way up, Blair was young and full of energy. Same with Obama, he beat McCain (a decent man) comfortably and there was an overwhelming sense of it being the best candidate won against a perfectly reasonable one. Yes the racists didn't like Obama, but a huge proportion of middle America didn't have an issue with him.

    This time it is relief Trump has gone, but is the country truly optimistic about the near future?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    One thing is in no doubt. Public Health officials in the US are having multiple litters of kittens at the moment.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @DAlexander

    If there was vote fraud, why:

    (1) is the result almost exactly in line with the Electoral College you'd expect with a four point national lead?
    (2) were the swings to Biden biggest in Republican run states such as North Carolina and Georgia, rather than Democrat run ones like Pennsylvania and Wisconsin?

    And, err, Michigan has a GOP majority in both the upper and lower tier of the state house.
    Yes, but it has a Democratic Governor.

    To make it absolutely bullet proof, I'm looking solely at states where it's Republican all the way down:

    - North Carolina
    - Georgia

    oh yes... and

    - Arizona, which also had a bigger swing to the Democrats that Pennsylvania or Michigan or Wisconsin
    Maybe McConnell did the rigging.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Are you saying Boris does not share those interests
    P.S. Has Johnson congratated Biden yet? Like Starmer, Sturgeon, Drakeford (in two languages)...have.
    It's been, like, an hour. And what if he had, but actually managed to get him on the phone? (I doubt he has tried or done so). It's like nothing exists if it is not on twitter.

    Send a handwritten note delivered by the ambassador to Biden's team, an old school chap like that might like the personal touch.
  • https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1306334039557586944

    Biden and Johnson have lots in common!

    Well, so did the Chuckle Brothers (and by that I mean Ian Paisley Snr, and Martin McGuiness!).
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited November 2020

    Coronavirus is another issue where Boris is far, far closer to Biden in his platform than Trump. While Trump was claiming to get back to normal Boris was putting us back into lockdown.

    Just checking, are you now in favour of lockdown because Johnson is or are you still against it?
    I am the same as I always was.

    I don't want us to have it if we don't need it. I don't see an alternative though and if it's necessary it shows be done solely as a last resort if there is no alternative. It should be a very last resort though which if Johnson thinks that is where we are I trust his judgement, I don't think he would decide it flippantly.

    It's a shame the Tiers alone didn't work first, it would be better if they had. It was right to try them first.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2020

    Can someone check if Contrarian and Brokenwheel are ok? They were posting quite prolifically until Wednesday then nada. I feel that only the most dire circumstance would make them miss this PB moment.

    I'll conduct some welfare checks on them, it's what the site editorial team should do.
    Contrarian's favourite pollster has had a bit of a breakdown on Twitter.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited November 2020

    @HYUFD's analysis is something to listen to, I expect he will be proven correct.

    @HYUFD, what do you regard as the fate of the Tories in regards to Farage?

    I am not too bothered about Farage after all his highest ever voteshare at a general election was in 2015 when the Tories still won a majority
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited November 2020
    They've already started building the myth around joe Biden.....how he rose above adversity etc. etc. That's why Trump has no chance of going anywere now. His power just slips away and no one's interested. By Tomorrow Trump will be yesterdays man. He might become a historical figure of interest in a few years but that's it. Brutal but that's how it works.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited November 2020

    https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1306334039557586944

    Biden and Johnson have lots in common!

    And look at the co-signatories. Joe Biden will have massive support on Capitol Hill. A LOT of Irish ancestry around as well as genuine commitment never, ever, to return to the Troubles.

    Johnson and Cummings called it wrong.

    In fact, dare I say it, we all should have accepted Theresa May's compromise Brexit. It was the best workable Brexit which guarded all important and sensible factors even if it did keep the headbangers at bay.
  • Coronavirus is another issue where Boris is far, far closer to Biden in his platform than Trump. While Trump was claiming to get back to normal Boris was putting us back into lockdown.

    Just checking, are you now in favour of lockdown because Johnson is or are you still against it?
    I am the same as I always was.

    I don't want us to have it if we don't need it. I don't see an alternative though and if it's necessary it shows be done solely as a last resort if there is no alternative. It should be a very last resort though which if Johnson thinks that is where we are I trust his judgement, I don't think he would decide it flippantly.
    So you accept your support of it is completely partisan and the idea you can ever call Keir Starmer Captain Hindsight again is for the birds. Thanks for the admission.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    Whats BJ said?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,458
    kle4 said:

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    I actually agree with you, up to a point. I suspect Boris does privately think Trump is a complete idiot. Trouble is, a large minority of Boris's supporters, including a minority of his MPs, are rather fond of Trump. You couldn't say the same for Macron's followers - it's Le Pen's lot that like Trump.
    There is a strand within the Tories that think that way it seems. HYUFD is no seer, but as an ultra loyal party member I'd think his perception of how Boris might pivot in the coming months, in a way which will undermine some of those people, makes sense. Before there might well have been some advantage to indulging that strand of MPs and membership, but there's no benefit to it now.
    Yes, I think Boris would like to steer away from his right flank. But he has an intractable problem. If he does, he risks losing a substantial minority to Farage's new party and other homes for the anti-woke. And his right flank will almost certainly kick off against his Brexit deal (there will be one, involving concessions to the EU), calling it a sell out and BINO. I suspect in the medium term he'll have more difficulty uniting his party than Starmer will with Labour.
  • Congratulations to Biden but the reaction of so many of the wrong people to his victory makes me want to vomit.

    Reminds me why Trump won in the first place.
  • Whats BJ said?

    Cummings will let him release a statement just as soon as he's finished nap time
  • So I have seen the videos of people going crazy by cheering clapping and tooting in New York, Philly and DC.

    When do I see the videos of people going crazy by mobbing lynching and shooting in Bumfuck Idaho?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    To be fair, Owen Jones knows a lot about only being barely sentient.
  • Congratulations to Biden but the reaction of so many of the wrong people to his victory makes me want to vomit.

    Reminds me why Trump won in the first place.

    Presumably you'll call people celebrating "woke" as is par for the course with you of late.
  • HYUFD said:

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    Johnson is nothing like Biden, you have utterly lost it.
    Out of the G7 leaders I think it is fair to say that Merkel, Macron, Trudeau, Conte and even Suga will have a closer relationship with Biden than Boris will, Boris will find himself a bit isolated among the main G7 leaders now Trump has gone, though he has built working relationships with them all, especially Suga thanks to the UK Japan trade deal and am sure he will do the same with Biden
    Sensible and accurate post, I'm glad not all Tories - of course Philip voted for Farage so I suspect sensible is perhaps stretching it - are nuts.
    I didn't vote for Farage. I voted to get rid of Theresa May and for Farage to be made redundant.
    I thought you voted for the Brexit party in the Euro2020 election?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Again, ridiculous, since leaders of various nations can enjoy a good relationship even if they would not agree with each others domestic politics, Democrats with Tory PMs, even Republicans with a Labour PM. Can Boris enjoy a good relationship with Biden? I suspect not, but their personal politics doesn't preclude it. It also presumes that because one side really likes the other leader, that will guarantee a good relationship, when the side in question might have little to do with the other despite that fangirling.

    Again, I don't have an issue thinking it might happen, I just find it slightly pathetic that people are so certain how the personal relationships will go, because they so clearly want their view of the domestic political alignment to be confirmed in a personal way.
    Commentators said that Boris is well on side with Biden on climate change and of course the UK is hosting next years summit, also on international defence security and NATO, together with G7 G20 and a shared interest in TPPA

    That is a lot of shared interests
    "Britain Trump" was not on the side of Biden!
    Is that a label Boris himself adopted? If not, then who the hell cares if someone else called him Britain Trump?(Trump has said it, but I don't trust his judgement, do you?)
    Ancient history was never my strong point, but wasn't Farage the bloke Trump called "Britain Trump"?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-49090804
  • kle4 said:

    For all the "Boris was too close to Trump" types, I wonder if the same people will forget just how keen Macron was to be seen as BFF with him? First meeting, first state visits etc, all Macron.

    You're not seriously suggesting that Macron has/had any time for Trump? Macron thinks he's an absolute idiot. But Macron is a consummate politician - of course he wanted to get in with Trump first, to see what he could do to temper Trump's excesses - and in the interest of France, of course.
    Boris and Macron are the same. Both thing he is a total idiot. Both laughed at him behind is back, together on camera. Both also worked with him because they're head of Government and he was POTUS. Both will work with Biden.

    Boris and Macron are both more like Biden than Trump.
    I actually agree with you, up to a point. I suspect Boris does privately think Trump is a complete idiot. Trouble is, a large minority of Boris's supporters, including a minority of his MPs, are rather fond of Trump. You couldn't say the same for Macron's followers - it's Le Pen's lot that like Trump.
    There is a strand within the Tories that think that way it seems. HYUFD is no seer, but as an ultra loyal party member I'd think his perception of how Boris might pivot in the coming months, in a way which will undermine some of those people, makes sense. Before there might well have been some advantage to indulging that strand of MPs and membership, but there's no benefit to it now.
    Yes, I think Boris would like to steer away from his right flank. But he has an intractable problem. If he does, he risks losing a substantial minority to Farage's new party and other homes for the anti-woke. And his right flank will almost certainly kick off against his Brexit deal (there will be one, involving concessions to the EU), calling it a sell out and BINO. I suspect in the medium term he'll have more difficulty uniting his party than Starmer will with Labour.
    Labour is united accept for a fringe in the SCG and a small minority of members.

    The reality is Starmer enjoys 70%+ support in MPs and members. He is the most uniting of the Labour Party since Blair.
  • Congratulations to Biden but the reaction of so many of the wrong people to his victory makes me want to vomit.

    Reminds me why Trump won in the first place.

    Look, all the wrong people think Biden was rubbish, so he must be OK.

    https://twitter.com/LordIanAustin/status/1324782155537534977
This discussion has been closed.