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A year is a long time in politics. Your regular reminder that the betting markets do get it wrong. –

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,078
    alex_ said:

    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    To entwine two themes, I reckon Priti Patel would make an exellent London mayor. She is characterful, punchy, optimistic and energetic. She has that irrepressible London spirit by which the city has endured and survived 2000 years. She is, also, a born Londoner.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priti_Patel




    She hates everything that makes London, London.
    She is from a hardworking immigrant background, she came through horrible racism and misogyny, and yet despite all that she has become the first female BAME Home Secretary. She's got spirit and ambition and she's done great. I like her.


    She is quintessentially London.

    Remember this brilliant, passionate, off-the-cuff speech of hers, in the Commons



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohXxmD78ZCo
    Are we talking about the same Priti Patel Sean or are you on a wind up.

    She hates immigrants. She hates London.
    It being a weekend evening, I expect Sean is on another wind up. But as a fair weather Londoner, he is hardly well qualified to make the call, anyway.
    To be fair, a large proportion of Londoners were born elsewhere, and retire elsewhere. For many of us, Sean included, London is a phase and way point rather than a destination.
    Unlike this Sean character, I was born within 20 yards of Bow Bells. Literally. I was delivered in the transept of St Mary Le Bow, to my costermonger mother and a pearly king father.
    I know that you have joined the board since @SeanT departed, but he did claim to be Cornish. Of course he could have been making it up, being a notorious fantasist.
    SeanT is definitely Cornish. That definitely wasn't made up.
    But nonetheless a Londoner, as indeed are many others. Indeed Fox jr 2 is a Londoner, despite being born half a mile from Flibert st.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Hearing that Manc & London both tier 2 according to friends on WhatsApp.

    https://twitter.com/bevcraig/status/1315352292082806784

    It's ridiculous. Manchester has got a giant university and another smaller one, these are where the cases are coming from. Lock the university down and keep the students away from the community, definitely. Destroy thousands of jobs and businesses? No. Fuck that, the government has completely lost it.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Bit of a tease, and it would be remarkable if at this stage Biden were not ahead in these three States.
  • So a guy on Twitter has just said social democracy in Norway isn't left wing.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited October 2020

    Hearing that Manc & London both tier 2 according to friends on WhatsApp.

    https://twitter.com/bevcraig/status/1315352292082806784

    And that's London which is currently at 74 per 100,000 over the last 7 days. And even that number's dubious because of the Uni/home registration issue.

    But yes, wouldn't be surprised if we see some significant drops in numbers in University towns within a couple of weeks.
  • MaxPB said:

    Hearing that Manc & London both tier 2 according to friends on WhatsApp.

    https://twitter.com/bevcraig/status/1315352292082806784

    It's ridiculous. Manchester has got a giant university and another smaller one, these are where the cases are coming from. Lock the university down and keep the students away from the community, definitely. Destroy thousands of jobs and businesses? No. Fuck that, the government has completely lost it.
    There are no giant Unis in those other towns listed in Greater Manchester.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:

    Hearing that Manc & London both tier 2 according to friends on WhatsApp.

    https://twitter.com/bevcraig/status/1315352292082806784

    It's ridiculous. Manchester has got a giant university and another smaller one, these are where the cases are coming from. Lock the university down and keep the students away from the community, definitely. Destroy thousands of jobs and businesses? No. Fuck that, the government has completely lost it.
    There are no giant Unis in those other towns listed in Greater Manchester.
    Those other areas have been problem areas for months.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,078
    alex_ said:

    Hearing that Manc & London both tier 2 according to friends on WhatsApp.

    https://twitter.com/bevcraig/status/1315352292082806784

    And that's London which is currently at 74 per 100,000 over the last 7 days. And even that number's dubious because of the Uni/home registration issue.

    But yes, wouldn't be surprised if we see some significant drops in numbers in University towns within a couple of weeks.
    That registration issue works both ways. Indeed with the large numbers of provincial students studying in the Smoke, probably higher than the figures show.
  • Just lockdown the entire country. It's necessary.
  • .
    Alistair said:
    The whole series is fascinating but no-one seems to care. Perhaps it is priced in that Trump is a crook. The NYT link I posted earlier today about Vegas included one payment whose accounting was amusingly described as either tax fraud or an illegal campaign contribution.

    What it does do is lend credence to the theory -- albeit the version posted yesterday was clearly fake news -- that Trump might step down in return for a pardon. (Tbh I suspect that even if he does carry on to the end (and lose), Biden might pardon him anyway in order to protect the institution of the presidency, but Trump might not feel he can rely on that.)
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    alex_ said:
    The WHO is as clueless as everyone else. First they were slightly pro mask. Then strongly anti mask. Then kinda pro mask. Then really pro mask. God knows what they think now.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,078
    edited October 2020
    alex_ said:
    I don't think that is a back flip. Neither WHO or any country has ever had lockdown as a primary control. It has always been a later stage when primary measures have failed.
  • LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Check this. Sturgeon is normally so unflappable

    https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1315245669808996358?s=20

    I have seldom observed a senior politician so clearly lying
    Is blinking the new polygraph test for lying? Priti Patel can reintroduce hanging tomorrow! Now we've found this infallible test, there can be no more miscarriages of justice.
    Well, yes. It's a known psychological fact that rapid blinking is a tell-tale sign of lying.


    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/let-their-words-do-the-talking/201405/just-the-bat-eye

    "Liars tend to blink more because lying is stressful. Under stress, eye blink rate increases (Mann, 2013)"
    Yes but the trouble is there are other causes of stress than lying. If there were not then polygraphs would be reliable.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hearing that Manc & London both tier 2 according to friends on WhatsApp.

    https://twitter.com/bevcraig/status/1315352292082806784

    It's ridiculous. Manchester has got a giant university and another smaller one, these are where the cases are coming from. Lock the university down and keep the students away from the community, definitely. Destroy thousands of jobs and businesses? No. Fuck that, the government has completely lost it.
    There are no giant Unis in those other towns listed in Greater Manchester.
    Those other areas have been problem areas for months.
    That's not...good
  • https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Check this. Sturgeon is normally so unflappable

    https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1315245669808996358?s=20

    I have seldom observed a senior politician so clearly lying
    Is blinking the new polygraph test for lying? Priti Patel can reintroduce hanging tomorrow! Now we've found this infallible test, there can be no more miscarriages of justice.
    Well, yes. It's a known psychological fact that rapid blinking is a tell-tale sign of lying.


    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/let-their-words-do-the-talking/201405/just-the-bat-eye

    "Liars tend to blink more because lying is stressful. Under stress, eye blink rate increases (Mann, 2013)"
    Yes but the trouble is there are other causes of stress than lying. If there were not then polygraphs would be reliable.
    Do you honestly believe Sturgeon is telling the truth? Consider just one of her claims, about a meeting with a Salmond aide in 2019

    "She said: "I had forgotten that this encounter had taken place until I was reminded of it in, I think, late January/early February 2019.

    "For context, I think the meeting took place not long after the weekly session of FMQs and in the midst of a busy day in which I would have been dealing with a multitude of other matters.

    "However, from what I recall, the discussion covered the fact that Alex Salmond wanted to see me urgently about a serious matter, and I think it did cover the suggestion that the matter might relate to allegations of a sexual nature.""

    She is literally claiming she "forgot" a meeting where she was first told that her ex boss, the ex First Minister, her 30 year mentor, Alex Salmond, was accused of serious allegations of a sexual nature.

    Yes, that's exactly the kind of meeting you would *forget*. Oh, the previous prime minister is an alleged rapist? Just another tiny detail that gets missed in a busy day

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54439758
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    To entwine two themes, I reckon Priti Patel would make an exellent London mayor. She is characterful, punchy, optimistic and energetic. She has that irrepressible London spirit by which the city has endured and survived 2000 years. She is, also, a born Londoner.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priti_Patel




    She hates everything that makes London, London.
    She is from a hardworking immigrant background, she came through horrible racism and misogyny, and yet despite all that she has become the first female BAME Home Secretary. She's got spirit and ambition and she's done great. I like her.


    She is quintessentially London.

    Remember this brilliant, passionate, off-the-cuff speech of hers, in the Commons



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohXxmD78ZCo
    Are we talking about the same Priti Patel Sean or are you on a wind up.

    She hates immigrants. She hates London.
    It being a weekend evening, I expect Sean is on another wind up. But as a fair weather Londoner, he is hardly well qualified to make the call, anyway.
    To be fair, a large proportion of Londoners were born elsewhere, and retire elsewhere. For many of us, Sean included, London is a phase and way point rather than a destination.
    Unlike this Sean character, I was born within 20 yards of Bow Bells. Literally. I was delivered in the transept of St Mary Le Bow, to my costermonger mother and a pearly king father.
    I know that you have joined the board since @SeanT departed, but he did claim to be Cornish. Of course he could have been making it up, being a notorious fantasist.
    I think that's what I find most objectionable when I am constantly linked to this shady novelist character. He was clearly a fraud and a drunk, and had, quite frankly, a rather predatory attitude to attractive young women. As a lesbian painter of the Noble Newt, I also have an interest in female beauty, but I am a model of decorum and barely drink more than a tankard of poteen a night. The comparison irks.
    You are right, he does sound like a bit of a rum old boy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated

    That's dreadfully complicated? No pubs and restaurants, try to avoid traveling unless essential, and try to avoid going into our out of a tier three area. How is that complicated?
  • MaxPB said:

    Hearing that Manc & London both tier 2 according to friends on WhatsApp.

    https://twitter.com/bevcraig/status/1315352292082806784

    It's ridiculous. Manchester has got a giant university and another smaller one, these are where the cases are coming from. Lock the university down and keep the students away from the community, definitely. Destroy thousands of jobs and businesses? No. Fuck that, the government has completely lost it.
    If Manchester is 2 not 3 then it sounds like that's exactly what the government is doing.
  • So a guy on Twitter has just said social democracy in Norway isn't left wing.

    And that's not even completely wrong.

  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:
    I don't think that is a back flip. Neither WHO or any country has ever had lockdown as a primary control. It has always been a later stage when primary measures have failed.
    Yes and no. The article seems to be arguing that lockdowns shouldn't be implemented as a direct means of reducing cases numbers per se - but specifically to buy time to put improved systems in place, reprioritise resources and give health workers a break.

    There doesn't appear to be much of that within the latest Government plans for tier 2 and 3 lockdowns. They'd have to acknowledge how utterly they've failed on those things first time around first. It's just "pray for a vaccine"
  • Sturgeon was far from assured or convincing in the Sky interview. Whilst I'd not go so far as to say she was lying, she was certainly shifty and evasive. She's certainly under a lot of pressure now with Salmondgate, her Covid restrictions being increasingly questioned and resisted, and SNP members openly challenging her strategy over an indy ref. Casino Royale of this parish opined not too long ago that she was a politician on top of her game. Not so I suspect.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    So a guy on Twitter has just said social democracy in Norway isn't left wing.


  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited October 2020

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated

    So does Tier two include household mixing in pubs and restaurants? Noting that if it doesn't, and the only difference is no private home mixing, then it's completely pointless as it's totally unenforceable.
  • RobD said:

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated

    That's dreadfully complicated? No pubs and restaurants, try to avoid traveling unless essential, and try to avoid going into our out of a tier three area. How is that complicated?
    I think you underestimate the stupidity of the population
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited October 2020

    RobD said:

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated

    That's dreadfully complicated? No pubs and restaurants, try to avoid traveling unless essential, and try to avoid going into our out of a tier three area. How is that complicated?
    I think you underestimate the stupidity of the population
    I'm genuinely curious which bit of that you think is the dreadfully complicated part.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Alistair said:

    A good thread for the pearl clutches who are aghast at the Dems comtemplating changing the size of the Supreme Court.

    https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1315017636569382913?s=19

    Once again aggressively (and inappropriately in my view) bending the rules.

    But very different from changing the landscape permanently.

    And here it is a bunch of senators mouthing off vs the Presidential candidate refuses to repudiate a position.

    I welcome @SouthamObserver mournful accusation that I am biased. It makes him feel superior and that’s nice for him. I am biased: biased towards the rules and democratic fairness.
  • Just lockdown the entire country. It's necessary.

    Jesus christ - glad you are not anywhere near power
    You're welcome.

    Lockdown is needed as the virus is out of control. If we get the cases down to the 10s with another lockdown then we can start to open up again. The Tories have yet again screwed it up
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    RobD said:

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated

    That's dreadfully complicated? No pubs and restaurants, try to avoid traveling unless essential, and try to avoid going into our out of a tier three area. How is that complicated?
    If you're in Tier 2, are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?

    Asking for a friend who wants to see me in the pub.
  • https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated

    Really?

    Seems pretty simple to me.

    Effectively:
    Tier 1: Rule of 6
    Tier 2: Stop socialising outside your house or support or childcare bubble.
    Tier 3: Lockdown.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    LadyG said:

    RobD said:

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated

    That's dreadfully complicated? No pubs and restaurants, try to avoid traveling unless essential, and try to avoid going into our out of a tier three area. How is that complicated?
    If you're in Tier 2, are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?

    Asking for a friend who wants to see me in the pub.
    Sounds like its only for people in your own household.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Check this. Sturgeon is normally so unflappable

    https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1315245669808996358?s=20

    I have seldom observed a senior politician so clearly lying
    Is blinking the new polygraph test for lying? Priti Patel can reintroduce hanging tomorrow! Now we've found this infallible test, there can be no more miscarriages of justice.
    Well, yes. It's a known psychological fact that rapid blinking is a tell-tale sign of lying.


    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/let-their-words-do-the-talking/201405/just-the-bat-eye

    "Liars tend to blink more because lying is stressful. Under stress, eye blink rate increases (Mann, 2013)"
    Yes but the trouble is there are other causes of stress than lying. If there were not then polygraphs would be reliable.
    Do you honestly believe Sturgeon is telling the truth? Consider just one of her claims, about a meeting with a Salmond aide in 2019

    "She said: "I had forgotten that this encounter had taken place until I was reminded of it in, I think, late January/early February 2019.

    "For context, I think the meeting took place not long after the weekly session of FMQs and in the midst of a busy day in which I would have been dealing with a multitude of other matters.

    "However, from what I recall, the discussion covered the fact that Alex Salmond wanted to see me urgently about a serious matter, and I think it did cover the suggestion that the matter might relate to allegations of a sexual nature.""

    She is literally claiming she "forgot" a meeting where she was first told that her ex boss, the ex First Minister, her 30 year mentor, Alex Salmond, was accused of serious allegations of a sexual nature.

    Yes, that's exactly the kind of meeting you would *forget*. Oh, the previous prime minister is an alleged rapist? Just another tiny detail that gets missed in a busy day

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54439758
    Did she first learn about the allegation on the 2nd of April or eons before on the... checks notes... 29th of March?

    Truly it changes everything.
  • Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked
  • Just lockdown the entire country. It's necessary.

    Jesus christ - glad you are not anywhere near power
    You're welcome.

    Lockdown is needed as the virus is out of control. If we get the cases down to the 10s with another lockdown then we can start to open up again. The Tories have yet again screwed it up
    If the Tories have screwed it up again no doubt Sir Keir Starmer will lead the opposition to the measures and vote against them. Or something.
  • So as this week turns to absolute shit. As this government flap around for any kind of unified messaging as to what the fuck up north is supposed to be doing. At which point do the letters start being sent to Graham Brady...?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 4,537
    Some hypocritical outrage in here over whether Sturgeon lied regarding Salmond . Yet Bozo can spew out lies on a daily basis and he’s not held to a similar standard .
  • Just lockdown the entire country. It's necessary.

    Jesus christ - glad you are not anywhere near power
    You're welcome.

    Lockdown is needed as the virus is out of control. If we get the cases down to the 10s with another lockdown then we can start to open up again. The Tories have yet again screwed it up
    If the Tories have screwed it up again no doubt Sir Keir Starmer will lead the opposition to the measures and vote against them. Or something.
    Labour needs to get a grip and back something now, time to oppose or support. Now is the time.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited October 2020
    RobD said:

    LadyG said:

    RobD said:

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated

    That's dreadfully complicated? No pubs and restaurants, try to avoid traveling unless essential, and try to avoid going into our out of a tier three area. How is that complicated?
    If you're in Tier 2, are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?

    Asking for a friend who wants to see me in the pub.
    Sounds like its only for people in your own household.
    That may be true, but that's not what the above summary says - which talks specifically about "homes and gardens".
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2020
    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    A good thread for the pearl clutches who are aghast at the Dems comtemplating changing the size of the Supreme Court.

    https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1315017636569382913?s=19

    Once again aggressively (and inappropriately in my view) bending the rules.

    But very different from changing the landscape permanently.

    And here it is a bunch of senators mouthing off vs the Presidential candidate refuses to repudiate a position.

    I welcome @SouthamObserver mournful accusation that I am biased. It makes him feel superior and that’s nice for him. I am biased: biased towards the rules and democratic fairness.
    Grassly and Cotton literally introduced Bills to change the number of justices in the DC Court rather than let Obama fill the positions.

    And did you miss the tweets about Republican governors increasing the size of their state supreme courts so they could pack them?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Check this. Sturgeon is normally so unflappable

    https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1315245669808996358?s=20

    I have seldom observed a senior politician so clearly lying
    Is blinking the new polygraph test for lying? Priti Patel can reintroduce hanging tomorrow! Now we've found this infallible test, there can be no more miscarriages of justice.
    Well, yes. It's a known psychological fact that rapid blinking is a tell-tale sign of lying.


    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/let-their-words-do-the-talking/201405/just-the-bat-eye

    "Liars tend to blink more because lying is stressful. Under stress, eye blink rate increases (Mann, 2013)"
    Yes but the trouble is there are other causes of stress than lying. If there were not then polygraphs would be reliable.
    Do you honestly believe Sturgeon is telling the truth? Consider just one of her claims, about a meeting with a Salmond aide in 2019

    "She said: "I had forgotten that this encounter had taken place until I was reminded of it in, I think, late January/early February 2019.

    "For context, I think the meeting took place not long after the weekly session of FMQs and in the midst of a busy day in which I would have been dealing with a multitude of other matters.

    "However, from what I recall, the discussion covered the fact that Alex Salmond wanted to see me urgently about a serious matter, and I think it did cover the suggestion that the matter might relate to allegations of a sexual nature.""

    She is literally claiming she "forgot" a meeting where she was first told that her ex boss, the ex First Minister, her 30 year mentor, Alex Salmond, was accused of serious allegations of a sexual nature.

    Yes, that's exactly the kind of meeting you would *forget*. Oh, the previous prime minister is an alleged rapist? Just another tiny detail that gets missed in a busy day

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54439758
    Did she first learn about the allegation on the 2nd of April or eons before on the... checks notes... 29th of March?

    Truly it changes everything.
    She is claiming she forgot the first meeting when she was told Alex Salmond was a bit rapey, and faced actual allegations to that end. It's utterly ludicrous.

    Come on, you're smarter than this, as are we. She's lying, everyone can see she is lying, the question for sophisticated PBers is whether she can survive the lie.

    She is a canny and durable politician, and she has the advantage of Covid as a huge diversion. She's got a good chance. She is one of Napoleon's "lucky generals".
  • RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    alex_ said:

    RobD said:

    LadyG said:

    RobD said:

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated

    That's dreadfully complicated? No pubs and restaurants, try to avoid traveling unless essential, and try to avoid going into our out of a tier three area. How is that complicated?
    If you're in Tier 2, are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?

    Asking for a friend who wants to see me in the pub.
    Sounds like its only for people in your own household.
    That may be true, but that's not what the above summary says - which talks specifically about "homes and gardens".
    Given that the rule of six was defined previously to include meeting other households in pubs, and that the second tier is tier one minus that, I think it's safe to assume it is not included. Like you say, it is just a summary, and the full guidelines will undoubtedly be published soon.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    RobD said:

    LadyG said:

    RobD said:

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated

    That's dreadfully complicated? No pubs and restaurants, try to avoid traveling unless essential, and try to avoid going into our out of a tier three area. How is that complicated?
    If you're in Tier 2, are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?

    Asking for a friend who wants to see me in the pub.
    Sounds like its only for people in your own household.
    Then that is a massive imposition, and cannot be laughed away. For people in tiny households of one or two, it means no social life. Possibly for the entire autumn and winter. This is not trivial.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    No? Of course they are going to be dreadfully complicated if you don't actually read them.
  • LadyG said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Check this. Sturgeon is normally so unflappable

    https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1315245669808996358?s=20

    I have seldom observed a senior politician so clearly lying
    Is blinking the new polygraph test for lying? Priti Patel can reintroduce hanging tomorrow! Now we've found this infallible test, there can be no more miscarriages of justice.
    Well, yes. It's a known psychological fact that rapid blinking is a tell-tale sign of lying.


    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/let-their-words-do-the-talking/201405/just-the-bat-eye

    "Liars tend to blink more because lying is stressful. Under stress, eye blink rate increases (Mann, 2013)"
    Yes but the trouble is there are other causes of stress than lying. If there were not then polygraphs would be reliable.
    Do you honestly believe Sturgeon is telling the truth? Consider just one of her claims, about a meeting with a Salmond aide in 2019

    "She said: "I had forgotten that this encounter had taken place until I was reminded of it in, I think, late January/early February 2019.

    "For context, I think the meeting took place not long after the weekly session of FMQs and in the midst of a busy day in which I would have been dealing with a multitude of other matters.

    "However, from what I recall, the discussion covered the fact that Alex Salmond wanted to see me urgently about a serious matter, and I think it did cover the suggestion that the matter might relate to allegations of a sexual nature.""

    She is literally claiming she "forgot" a meeting where she was first told that her ex boss, the ex First Minister, her 30 year mentor, Alex Salmond, was accused of serious allegations of a sexual nature.

    Yes, that's exactly the kind of meeting you would *forget*. Oh, the previous prime minister is an alleged rapist? Just another tiny detail that gets missed in a busy day

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54439758
    Did she first learn about the allegation on the 2nd of April or eons before on the... checks notes... 29th of March?

    Truly it changes everything.
    She is claiming she forgot the first meeting when she was told Alex Salmond was a bit rapey, and faced actual allegations to that end. It's utterly ludicrous.

    Come on, you're smarter than this, as are we. She's lying, everyone can see she is lying, the question for sophisticated PBers is whether she can survive the lie.

    She is a canny and durable politician, and she has the advantage of Covid as a huge diversion. She's got a good chance. She is one of Napoleon's "lucky generals".
    There is also the very murky role her husband has played in Salmondgate. I reckon there's a lot more still to come out on this issue. Sturgeon looked impregnable a month or so ago but the mood has changed.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    No? Of course they are going to be dreadfully complicated if you don't actually read them.
    Where does it say you can or can't? You're assuming because you don't know. As I said, complicated.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    LadyG said:

    RobD said:

    LadyG said:

    RobD said:

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated

    That's dreadfully complicated? No pubs and restaurants, try to avoid traveling unless essential, and try to avoid going into our out of a tier three area. How is that complicated?
    If you're in Tier 2, are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?

    Asking for a friend who wants to see me in the pub.
    Sounds like its only for people in your own household.
    Then that is a massive imposition, and cannot be laughed away. For people in tiny households of one or two, it means no social life. Possibly for the entire autumn and winter. This is not trivial.
    It is also very expensive as, if complied with, it basically bankrupts pubs. There is no way they could do that without providing massive financial support. Trying to get round it on the technicality that at Tier 3 pubs (receiving help) cannot open, whereas at Tier 2 they can won't be sustainable.

  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    So as this week turns to absolute shit. As this government flap around for any kind of unified messaging as to what the fuck up north is supposed to be doing. At which point do the letters start being sent to Graham Brady...?

    If you're waiting for Graham Brady to save you, you'll be waiting a long time...
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    No? Of course they are going to be dreadfully complicated if you don't actually read them.
    Where does it say you can or can't? You're assuming because you don't know. As I said, complicated.
    Maybe you should wait for the rules to be published before going off on one about how complicated they are.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    No? Of course they are going to be dreadfully complicated if you don't actually read them.
    Where does it say you can or can't? You're assuming because you don't know. As I said, complicated.
    Seriously? The summary states:


    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    It then goes on to say

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six.

    And remember, this is only a journalist's summary.
  • Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    A good thread for the pearl clutches who are aghast at the Dems comtemplating changing the size of the Supreme Court.

    https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1315017636569382913?s=19

    Once again aggressively (and inappropriately in my view) bending the rules.

    But very different from changing the landscape permanently.

    And here it is a bunch of senators mouthing off vs the Presidential candidate refuses to repudiate a position.

    I welcome @SouthamObserver mournful accusation that I am biased. It makes him feel superior and that’s nice for him. I am biased: biased towards the rules and democratic fairness.
    How is it "permanently" given that court sizes have changed many times in the past and the Republicans have encouraged this in the past?

    Do you not consider the fact that the Republicans recently abolished the fillibuster as a "permanent" change of landscape? If they hadn't the Democrats could just fillibuster the nomination of ACB until after the election.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    No? Of course they are going to be dreadfully complicated if you don't actually read them.
    Where does it say you can or can't? You're assuming because you don't know. As I said, complicated.
    Maybe you should wait for the rules to be published before going off on one about how complicated they are.
    No worries, I am sure Johnson will be able to explain them clearly.

    Regardless, the trust is all gone. The Government cocked that up months ago with Cummings.
  • LadyG said:

    RobD said:

    LadyG said:

    RobD said:

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated

    That's dreadfully complicated? No pubs and restaurants, try to avoid traveling unless essential, and try to avoid going into our out of a tier three area. How is that complicated?
    If you're in Tier 2, are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?

    Asking for a friend who wants to see me in the pub.
    Sounds like its only for people in your own household.
    Then that is a massive imposition, and cannot be laughed away. For people in tiny households of one or two, it means no social life. Possibly for the entire autumn and winter. This is not trivial.
    No, for people of in households of one they should have a support bubble.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    https://youtu.be/ZaMX0Cs5Bc4

    Great song, and a great soundtrack to Boris’ new tiers policy.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Check this. Sturgeon is normally so unflappable

    https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1315245669808996358?s=20

    I have seldom observed a senior politician so clearly lying
    Is blinking the new polygraph test for lying? Priti Patel can reintroduce hanging tomorrow! Now we've found this infallible test, there can be no more miscarriages of justice.
    Well, yes. It's a known psychological fact that rapid blinking is a tell-tale sign of lying.


    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/let-their-words-do-the-talking/201405/just-the-bat-eye

    "Liars tend to blink more because lying is stressful. Under stress, eye blink rate increases (Mann, 2013)"
    Yes but the trouble is there are other causes of stress than lying. If there were not then polygraphs would be reliable.
    Do you honestly believe Sturgeon is telling the truth? Consider just one of her claims, about a meeting with a Salmond aide in 2019

    "She said: "I had forgotten that this encounter had taken place until I was reminded of it in, I think, late January/early February 2019.

    "For context, I think the meeting took place not long after the weekly session of FMQs and in the midst of a busy day in which I would have been dealing with a multitude of other matters.

    "However, from what I recall, the discussion covered the fact that Alex Salmond wanted to see me urgently about a serious matter, and I think it did cover the suggestion that the matter might relate to allegations of a sexual nature.""

    She is literally claiming she "forgot" a meeting where she was first told that her ex boss, the ex First Minister, her 30 year mentor, Alex Salmond, was accused of serious allegations of a sexual nature.

    Yes, that's exactly the kind of meeting you would *forget*. Oh, the previous prime minister is an alleged rapist? Just another tiny detail that gets missed in a busy day

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54439758
    Did she first learn about the allegation on the 2nd of April or eons before on the... checks notes... 29th of March?

    Truly it changes everything.
    She is claiming she forgot the first meeting when she was told Alex Salmond was a bit rapey, and faced actual allegations to that end. It's utterly ludicrous.

    Come on, you're smarter than this, as are we. She's lying, everyone can see she is lying, the question for sophisticated PBers is whether she can survive the lie.

    She is a canny and durable politician, and she has the advantage of Covid as a huge diversion. She's got a good chance. She is one of Napoleon's "lucky generals".
    There is also the very murky role her husband has played in Salmondgate. I reckon there's a lot more still to come out on this issue. Sturgeon looked impregnable a month or so ago but the mood has changed.
    Agreed. And she has a formidable adversary in Salmond, who is clearly out for blood (and you can see why he is blisteringly angry even if he is a lecherous old git).

    It's an excellent fight. The Sturgeon vs the Salmon. The former is bigger but the latter is iconic. A lot of Scot Nats will be Salmondites by instinct
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    So a guy on Twitter has just said social democracy in Norway isn't left wing.

    Left to my mind is big state, the right is small state. Mainly this is a money measure.

    The left have historically presumed preeminence on all sorts of issues - womens' rights for example, but in the UK it's clear (after 2 female PMs) that the right are at least holding their own.

    The left is stuck in the early 20th Century, but it's hard to know what that actually means now. The left has become almost anarchism.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    No? Of course they are going to be dreadfully complicated if you don't actually read them.
    Where does it say you can or can't? You're assuming because you don't know. As I said, complicated.
    Seriously? The summary states:


    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    It then goes on to say

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six.

    And remember, this is only a journalist's summary.
    Home or garden, is that indoors? Outdoors only?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    alex_ said:

    LadyG said:
    Govt panicking about optics of only introducing new measures for the North. So in the South there's only one candidate...
    Highly plausible. And it's not as though the Tories were popular in London even when they were 20 points ahead nationally, so it hardly matters if people hate it.
  • I will wait for Johnson to confuse things.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    No? Of course they are going to be dreadfully complicated if you don't actually read them.
    Where does it say you can or can't? You're assuming because you don't know. As I said, complicated.
    Seriously? The summary states:


    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    It then goes on to say

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six.

    And remember, this is only a journalist's summary.
    Home or garden, is that indoors? Outdoors only?
    Your home is typically inside and your garden is outside. Now you are just trying to justify your claim that they are complicated.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    RobD said:

    LadyG said:

    RobD said:

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-what-will-the-new-covid-19-three-tier-system-look-like

    3) This highest tier, Tier Three, will have four main characteristics.

    a) Pubs and restaurants will be closed for all business except takeaways. That will be a legally enforceable rule.

    b) Local people will be asked - as guidance rather than a legally enforceable rule - to only make essential journeys within a Tier Three area.

    c) People living within a Tier Three area will be urged not to leave the area, unless it is absolutely necessary. Again that will be guidance.

    d) And people living outside a Tier Three area will be asked not to travel to a Tier Three area unless essential, and they will be urged not to stay overnight. Again that will be guidance.

    For the avoidance of doubt, Tier One restrictions are the baseline restrictions applying everywhere in England, unless areas are subject to Tier Two or Three restrictions.

    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six, so you cannot host people in your home or garden unless they are in your support or childcare bubble, or go to a home or garden outside of your support or childcare bubble.

    This is dreadfully complicated

    That's dreadfully complicated? No pubs and restaurants, try to avoid traveling unless essential, and try to avoid going into our out of a tier three area. How is that complicated?
    If you're in Tier 2, are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?

    Asking for a friend who wants to see me in the pub.
    Sounds like its only for people in your own household.
    Then that is a massive imposition, and cannot be laughed away. For people in tiny households of one or two, it means no social life. Possibly for the entire autumn and winter. This is not trivial.
    No, for people of in households of one they should have a support bubble.
    But WTF is that? Really? I'm not dim, and I have never understood what a fucking "support bubble" is. And I have never ever heard any of my friends mention or discuss it. No one comprehends or cares. If this is the best messaging that HMG can do then we are shagged
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Foxy said:

    As we come out of COVID, we need to have a serious discussion about legalising cannabis

    Yeah. Everyone being stoned will do wonders for economic recovery, takeaway munchies in particular.
    I should think there would be some additional take up of cannabis if it were legalised, but I highly doubt it would have a large impact - it is hardly difficult to get hold of cannabis if you want it now, and police have bigger things to worry about to boot.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    Another exile option come 21st January, added to Trump's list.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    You will still be breathing the air of the people you don't live with if you happen to be in the same pub but not meeting. Or meet them in the gym - perfectly safe to be on adjacent treadmills...
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    No? Of course they are going to be dreadfully complicated if you don't actually read them.
    Where does it say you can or can't? You're assuming because you don't know. As I said, complicated.
    Seriously? The summary states:


    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    It then goes on to say

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six.

    And remember, this is only a journalist's summary.
    Home or garden, is that indoors? Outdoors only?
    Your home is typically inside and your garden is outside. Now you are just trying to justify your claim that they are complicated.
    They are complicated - you've assumed things that aren't there.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    No? Of course they are going to be dreadfully complicated if you don't actually read them.
    Where does it say you can or can't? You're assuming because you don't know. As I said, complicated.
    Seriously? The summary states:


    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    It then goes on to say

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six.

    And remember, this is only a journalist's summary.
    Home or garden, is that indoors? Outdoors only?
    Your home is typically inside and your garden is outside. Now you are just trying to justify your claim that they are complicated.
    They're not complicated. Although there appears to be a lot of mixing of guidance and legislation.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    You will still be breathing the air of the people you don't live with if you happen to be in the same pub but not meeting. Or meet them in the gym - perfectly safe to be on adjacent treadmills...
    Not thought through and needlessly complicated. HMG onto a winner!
  • I predict by Tuesday the media will be stuffed with stories of people saying they live in one tier, work in another and their kids live in yet another...and its all too confusing and unfair.
  • LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Check this. Sturgeon is normally so unflappable

    https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1315245669808996358?s=20

    I have seldom observed a senior politician so clearly lying
    Is blinking the new polygraph test for lying? Priti Patel can reintroduce hanging tomorrow! Now we've found this infallible test, there can be no more miscarriages of justice.
    Well, yes. It's a known psychological fact that rapid blinking is a tell-tale sign of lying.


    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/let-their-words-do-the-talking/201405/just-the-bat-eye

    "Liars tend to blink more because lying is stressful. Under stress, eye blink rate increases (Mann, 2013)"
    Yes but the trouble is there are other causes of stress than lying. If there were not then polygraphs would be reliable.
    Do you honestly believe Sturgeon is telling the truth? Consider just one of her claims, about a meeting with a Salmond aide in 2019

    "She said: "I had forgotten that this encounter had taken place until I was reminded of it in, I think, late January/early February 2019.

    "For context, I think the meeting took place not long after the weekly session of FMQs and in the midst of a busy day in which I would have been dealing with a multitude of other matters.

    "However, from what I recall, the discussion covered the fact that Alex Salmond wanted to see me urgently about a serious matter, and I think it did cover the suggestion that the matter might relate to allegations of a sexual nature.""

    She is literally claiming she "forgot" a meeting where she was first told that her ex boss, the ex First Minister, her 30 year mentor, Alex Salmond, was accused of serious allegations of a sexual nature.

    Yes, that's exactly the kind of meeting you would *forget*. Oh, the previous prime minister is an alleged rapist? Just another tiny detail that gets missed in a busy day

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54439758
    Did she first learn about the allegation on the 2nd of April or eons before on the... checks notes... 29th of March?

    Truly it changes everything.
    She is claiming she forgot the first meeting when she was told Alex Salmond was a bit rapey, and faced actual allegations to that end. It's utterly ludicrous.

    Come on, you're smarter than this, as are we. She's lying, everyone can see she is lying, the question for sophisticated PBers is whether she can survive the lie.

    She is a canny and durable politician, and she has the advantage of Covid as a huge diversion. She's got a good chance. She is one of Napoleon's "lucky generals".
    There is also the very murky role her husband has played in Salmondgate. I reckon there's a lot more still to come out on this issue. Sturgeon looked impregnable a month or so ago but the mood has changed.
    Agreed. And she has a formidable adversary in Salmond, who is clearly out for blood (and you can see why he is blisteringly angry even if he is a lecherous old git).

    It's an excellent fight. The Sturgeon vs the Salmon. The former is bigger but the latter is iconic. A lot of Scot Nats will be Salmondites by instinct
    Agreed. Sturgeon may have been respected and even admired whilst she appeared competent, trustworthy and honest. I doubt many Nats really love her though. Salmond and I think Cherry are hoping to undermine her reputation and then take advantage.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    No? Of course they are going to be dreadfully complicated if you don't actually read them.
    Where does it say you can or can't? You're assuming because you don't know. As I said, complicated.
    Seriously? The summary states:


    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    It then goes on to say

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six.

    And remember, this is only a journalist's summary.
    Home or garden, is that indoors? Outdoors only?
    Your home is typically inside and your garden is outside. Now you are just trying to justify your claim that they are complicated.
    They are complicated - you've assumed things that aren't there.
    How does that assumption make it complicated? There are two scenarios, either you can socialise with the rule of six in pubs and restaurants in tier two, or you can't. Neither of those scenarios are complicated.
  • If there is I suspect it will be because the Mayor has asked for it more than because the Government have decided it necessary.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
  • If there is I suspect it will be because the Mayor has asked for it more than because the Government have decided it necessary.
    A countrywide lockdown is needed now.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Khan has been expressing "concern" for several weeks. If London is in Tier 2 then it will be as much a political choice as some sort of idea that it is a massive hotspot. And i still think the idea that the city should be treated as a single entity for restrictions is highly dubious. The vast majority of people still socialise in their local vicinity.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    alex_ said:

    Khan has been expressing "concern" for several weeks. If London is in Tier 2 then it will be as much a political choice as some sort of idea that it is a massive hotspot. And i still think the idea that the city should be treated as a single entity for restrictions is highly dubious. The vast majority of people still socialise in their local vicinity.
    If London is going into that tier now, the northern cities should have been in there ages ago.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    No? Of course they are going to be dreadfully complicated if you don't actually read them.
    Where does it say you can or can't? You're assuming because you don't know. As I said, complicated.
    Seriously? The summary states:


    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    It then goes on to say

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six.

    And remember, this is only a journalist's summary.
    Home or garden, is that indoors? Outdoors only?
    Your home is typically inside and your garden is outside. Now you are just trying to justify your claim that they are complicated.
    They are complicated - you've assumed things that aren't there.
    How does that assumption make it complicated? There are two scenarios, either you can socialise with the rule of six in pubs and restaurants in tier two, or you can't. Neither of those scenarios are complicated.
    I've explained one example, the other is things that are guidance and the law.

    It's needlessly complicated and the average person will just not listen
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    MaxPB said:

    Eyeing a chart I've just seen I think we have a doubling time of 11 days at the moment, but the Tuesday numbers will tell the full story.

    I keep an up-to-date seven day moving average for the UK.

    By my reckoning, the number in hospital with Covid-19 is currently doubling every 11 days. Deaths are doubling every 18 days.

    I don't bother monitoring the number of people tested positive as the data is all over the place.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    I predict by Tuesday the media will be stuffed with stories of people saying they live in one tier, work in another and their kids live in yet another...and its all too confusing and unfair.

    It's all being done so as to avoid another "national lockdown", because they swore they'd never do that, and avoiding that horror was the reason for Lockdown 1.

    Yet we will end up with a tacit national lockdown, apart from a few lucky sods in rural England, Wales and Scotland, and it will be horribly complicated and maybe less effective than if they'd just said Sorry, go home again, and stay home. Great.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Check this. Sturgeon is normally so unflappable

    https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1315245669808996358?s=20

    I have seldom observed a senior politician so clearly lying
    Is blinking the new polygraph test for lying? Priti Patel can reintroduce hanging tomorrow! Now we've found this infallible test, there can be no more miscarriages of justice.
    Well, yes. It's a known psychological fact that rapid blinking is a tell-tale sign of lying.


    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/let-their-words-do-the-talking/201405/just-the-bat-eye

    "Liars tend to blink more because lying is stressful. Under stress, eye blink rate increases (Mann, 2013)"
    The problem with a lot of things that might indicate lying, like avoiding eye contact as well, is that people then make snap judgements on the assumption it must be the case that it shows lying, even if there are other reasons for it.

    It's why children who learn to look an adult in the eye while lying can get away with it, since some people seem to think they won't be able to.
  • alex_ said:

    Khan has been expressing "concern" for several weeks. If London is in Tier 2 then it will be as much a political choice as some sort of idea that it is a massive hotspot. And i still think the idea that the city should be treated as a single entity for restrictions is highly dubious. The vast majority of people still socialise in their local vicinity.
    London should have already locked down, as should the rest of the country. We need to get a grip on this now.
  • kle4 said:
    Good on her, she's clearly got a sense of humour.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    To entwine two themes, I reckon Priti Patel would make an exellent London mayor. She is characterful, punchy, optimistic and energetic. She has that irrepressible London spirit by which the city has endured and survived 2000 years. She is, also, a born Londoner.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priti_Patel




    She hates everything that makes London, London.
    She is from a hardworking immigrant background, she came through horrible racism and misogyny, and yet despite all that she has become the first female BAME Home Secretary. She's got spirit and ambition and she's done great. I like her.


    She is quintessentially London.

    Remember this brilliant, passionate, off-the-cuff speech of hers, in the Commons



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohXxmD78ZCo
    Are we talking about the same Priti Patel Sean or are you on a wind up.

    She hates immigrants. She hates London.
    It being a weekend evening, I expect Sean is on another wind up. But as a fair weather Londoner, he is hardly well qualified to make the call, anyway.
    To be fair, a large proportion of Londoners were born elsewhere, and retire elsewhere. For many of us, Sean included, London is a phase and way point rather than a destination.
    Unlike this Sean character, I was born within 20 yards of Bow Bells. Literally. I was delivered in the transept of St Mary Le Bow, to my costermonger mother and a pearly king father.
    I know that you have joined the board since @SeanT departed, but he did claim to be Cornish. Of course he could have been making it up, being a notorious fantasist.
    SeanT is definitely Cornish. That definitely wasn't made up.
    But nonetheless a Londoner, as indeed are many others. Indeed Fox jr 2 is a Londoner, despite being born half a mile from Flibert st.
    People can have multiple identities of course.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,678
    Lock up the Scousers....

    Hang on.....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    No? Of course they are going to be dreadfully complicated if you don't actually read them.
    Where does it say you can or can't? You're assuming because you don't know. As I said, complicated.
    Seriously? The summary states:


    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    It then goes on to say

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six.

    And remember, this is only a journalist's summary.
    Home or garden, is that indoors? Outdoors only?
    Your home is typically inside and your garden is outside. Now you are just trying to justify your claim that they are complicated.
    They are complicated - you've assumed things that aren't there.
    How does that assumption make it complicated? There are two scenarios, either you can socialise with the rule of six in pubs and restaurants in tier two, or you can't. Neither of those scenarios are complicated.
    I've explained one example, the other is things that are guidance and the law.

    It's needlessly complicated and the average person will just not listen
    But that example isn't complicated. As for law vs. guidance, I suspect they didn't want to go down the route of making it illegal to see other people.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Tories love the new lockdown rules and think they're easy to follow, shocked

    So which is the dreadfully complicated part of it all?
    Are you allowed to mix with other households in pubs and restaurants?
    Depends what tier you are in. Yes at the lowest level.
    What about the other tiers?
    No? Of course they are going to be dreadfully complicated if you don't actually read them.
    Where does it say you can or can't? You're assuming because you don't know. As I said, complicated.
    Seriously? The summary states:


    The core of Tier One is the "Rule of Six" - viz only six people are allowed in a home or garden, or sitting at a pub table or restaurant table - and there is a 10pm curfew for pubs and restaurants.

    It then goes on to say

    Tier Two is largely Tier One minus the Rule of Six.

    And remember, this is only a journalist's summary.
    Home or garden, is that indoors? Outdoors only?
    Your home is typically inside and your garden is outside. Now you are just trying to justify your claim that they are complicated.
    They are complicated - you've assumed things that aren't there.
    How does that assumption make it complicated? There are two scenarios, either you can socialise with the rule of six in pubs and restaurants in tier two, or you can't. Neither of those scenarios are complicated.
    I've explained one example, the other is things that are guidance and the law.

    It's needlessly complicated and the average person will just not listen
    But that example isn't complicated. As for law vs. guidance, I suspect they didn't want to go down the route of making it illegal to see other people.
    It is complicated.

    Stay home save lives was easy.

    This tier stuff is needlessly complicated for something that won't work. We need a full lockdown for everyone with the same rules.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Scott_xP said:
    Better last orders than last rites?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Check this. Sturgeon is normally so unflappable

    https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1315245669808996358?s=20

    I have seldom observed a senior politician so clearly lying
    Is blinking the new polygraph test for lying? Priti Patel can reintroduce hanging tomorrow! Now we've found this infallible test, there can be no more miscarriages of justice.
    Well, yes. It's a known psychological fact that rapid blinking is a tell-tale sign of lying.


    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/let-their-words-do-the-talking/201405/just-the-bat-eye

    "Liars tend to blink more because lying is stressful. Under stress, eye blink rate increases (Mann, 2013)"
    Yes but the trouble is there are other causes of stress than lying. If there were not then polygraphs would be reliable.
    It was obvious she was lying , it was a dire interview , she was all over the place , manic, lying through her teeth. She is normally cool in control of things , here she was blinking , head all over the place , it looked seriously dodgy.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Check this. Sturgeon is normally so unflappable

    https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1315245669808996358?s=20

    I have seldom observed a senior politician so clearly lying
    Is blinking the new polygraph test for lying? Priti Patel can reintroduce hanging tomorrow! Now we've found this infallible test, there can be no more miscarriages of justice.
    Well, yes. It's a known psychological fact that rapid blinking is a tell-tale sign of lying.


    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/let-their-words-do-the-talking/201405/just-the-bat-eye

    "Liars tend to blink more because lying is stressful. Under stress, eye blink rate increases (Mann, 2013)"
    Yes but the trouble is there are other causes of stress than lying. If there were not then polygraphs would be reliable.
    Do you honestly believe Sturgeon is telling the truth? Consider just one of her claims, about a meeting with a Salmond aide in 2019

    "She said: "I had forgotten that this encounter had taken place until I was reminded of it in, I think, late January/early February 2019.

    "For context, I think the meeting took place not long after the weekly session of FMQs and in the midst of a busy day in which I would have been dealing with a multitude of other matters.

    "However, from what I recall, the discussion covered the fact that Alex Salmond wanted to see me urgently about a serious matter, and I think it did cover the suggestion that the matter might relate to allegations of a sexual nature.""

    She is literally claiming she "forgot" a meeting where she was first told that her ex boss, the ex First Minister, her 30 year mentor, Alex Salmond, was accused of serious allegations of a sexual nature.

    Yes, that's exactly the kind of meeting you would *forget*. Oh, the previous prime minister is an alleged rapist? Just another tiny detail that gets missed in a busy day

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54439758
    Did she first learn about the allegation on the 2nd of April or eons before on the... checks notes... 29th of March?

    Truly it changes everything.
    She is claiming she forgot the first meeting when she was told Alex Salmond was a bit rapey, and faced actual allegations to that end. It's utterly ludicrous.

    Come on, you're smarter than this, as are we. She's lying, everyone can see she is lying, the question for sophisticated PBers is whether she can survive the lie.

    She is a canny and durable politician, and she has the advantage of Covid as a huge diversion. She's got a good chance. She is one of Napoleon's "lucky generals".
    There is also the very murky role her husband has played in Salmondgate. I reckon there's a lot more still to come out on this issue. Sturgeon looked impregnable a month or so ago but the mood has changed.
    Agreed. And she has a formidable adversary in Salmond, who is clearly out for blood (and you can see why he is blisteringly angry even if he is a lecherous old git).

    It's an excellent fight. The Sturgeon vs the Salmon. The former is bigger but the latter is iconic. A lot of Scot Nats will be Salmondites by instinct
    Agreed. Sturgeon may have been respected and even admired whilst she appeared competent, trustworthy and honest. I doubt many Nats really love her though. Salmond and I think Cherry are hoping to undermine her reputation and then take advantage.
    Yes, Salmond gets the love. He's the amazing guy who took the SNP from the fringe to indyref 1, in a single career, and very nearly won a truly remarkable prize. Sturgeon is efficient, and decent, but actually quite boring.

    A horrible split beckons. Should be entertaining.



  • I'm confident that my fellow northerners will understand whatever restrictions are put in place. Whether they'll adhere to them is something else entirely.
This discussion has been closed.