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Sunak now edges ahead of Johnson as preferred PM – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited September 27 in General
Sunak now edges ahead of Johnson as preferred PM – politicalbetting.com

Who would you prefer as PM – Johnson or Sunak?@RedfieldWilton polling pic.twitter.com/076MdIouCD

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • New thread or another bug. You can never tell these days.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 22,244

    MaxPB said:

    Oliver Dowding on Marr clearly telling the Premier League they need to support football

    I understand the cost is £250 million so the average cost per Premier League club is £12.5 million

    That figure is less than some individual Premier League players earn per year

    HMG is right to tell the Premier League to look after their own

    So large hotel chains should look after independent ones as well then?

    It's government action that has destroyed lower league clubs, why should other private business pick up the bill?
    In these circumstances when money is tight it is right for wealthy football clubs to help their sport

    Furthermore, the outcry from the populace if HMG were seen to hand the Premier League money would be deafening
    Why should football clubs (private businesses) be singled out to bail out an industry when no others have been asked. We didn't ask IAG to bail out Virgin Atlantic.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 62,066
    edited September 27
    I think Amy Barrett being a controversial choice solely because of her likely jurisprudence, and the procedure that got her the spot (And not her character) helps the Democrats. The last thing they needed before the election was another Kavanaugh circus.
  • eekeek Posts: 9,462
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Oliver Dowding on Marr clearly telling the Premier League they need to support football

    I understand the cost is £250 million so the average cost per Premier League club is £12.5 million

    That figure is less than some individual Premier League players earn per year

    HMG is right to tell the Premier League to look after their own

    So large hotel chains should look after independent ones as well then?

    It's government action that has destroyed lower league clubs, why should other private business pick up the bill?
    In these circumstances when money is tight it is right for wealthy football clubs to help their sport

    Furthermore, the outcry from the populace if HMG were seen to hand the Premier League money would be deafening
    Why should football clubs (private businesses) be singled out to bail out an industry when no others have been asked. We didn't ask IAG to bail out Virgin Atlantic.
    The cost is also little different from the "prize money" of the Championship playoff final - as all teams that gain entry to the Premiership receive £170m from TV revenue even if they only stay up for a single year when you add on the 2 years of parachute payments.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 1,287
    Sunak is so popular for three reasons I think:

    - he has given away hundreds of billions
    - unlike Boris, he has no serious shadow (Annelise Who?)
    - he isn't really associated with leaving the EU, which antagonises half the country.

    The first may not last, but the other two could well.
  • The oven-ready Rishi Sunak really is a spring chicken. As PBers have noted earlier, the Chancellor is only 40. But I don't think it matters. He looks older than he is, and older than Blair and Cameron. I'm not on at the big prices but would not be sweating on account of his youth and inexperience.
  • eekeek Posts: 9,462
    Fishing said:

    Sunak is so popular for three reasons I think:

    - he has given away hundreds of billions
    - unlike Boris, he has no serious shadow (Annelise Who?)
    - he isn't really associated with leaving the EU, which antagonises half the country.

    The first may not last, but the other two could well.

    Does anyone else really have a serious shadow minister. And it really doesn't matter at the moment as the Government is making more than enough mistakes by itself.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 1,287
    eek said:

    Fishing said:

    Sunak is so popular for three reasons I think:

    - he has given away hundreds of billions
    - unlike Boris, he has no serious shadow (Annelise Who?)
    - he isn't really associated with leaving the EU, which antagonises half the country.

    The first may not last, but the other two could well.

    Does anyone else really have a serious shadow minister.
    Yes, the Prime Minister, to which this thread compares the Chancellor.

  • Sunak intrigues me
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 20,033
    edited September 27

    Fishing said:

    Sunak is so popular for three reasons I think:

    - he has given away hundreds of billions
    - unlike Boris, he has no serious shadow (Annelise Who?)
    - he isn't really associated with leaving the EU, which antagonises half the country.

    The first may not last, but the other two could well.

    Rishi is popular because alone amongst ministers, he looks calm, collected and in command of his brief. In the midst of the pandemic, Boris blusters, Raab looks out of his depth, Hancock like a deer in headlights. Sunak looks ministerial, even prime ministerial.
    Agree; however the lack of a serious shadow may well not last. Ms Dodds doesn't really look the part, but appears to have the acumen.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 11,624
    Sunak occupies an intersection on the Venn diagram that is so small it may only contain him: Competent Leaver.

    He is on top of detail, realises cause has effect and avoids being a lying bastard - attributes that set him apart from his colleagues. He is uniquely well placed to take over a big mess, even through objectively he isn't THAT brilliant.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 20,033
    In the cricket, Somerset have declared, leaving Essex what ought to be a gettable 237. Assuming Cook repeats his first innings effort, or something like it.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 3,155
    edited September 27
    FPT re: Supreme Court.

    I would actually say that the opposition isn't to Trump's exercising of his right to nomination (to counter DAlexander's arguments). It is to the unseemly haste of the Republicans to say that they will rush through to approve the nominee, without even going through the pretence that the confirmatory hearings might have any impact on the outcome. The process is nomination -> senate committee hearings -> report to the Senate on suitability of the candidate and formal vote for approval*. And of course the hypocrisy.

    In 2016 they didn't even start the hearings (they were concerned they would not be able to drag them out long enough, or demonstrate an argument to oppose/reject. Unsurprising as the nominee was specifically put forward to be acceptable to moderate Republican senators.

    Now McConnell has declared (and before the nominee was even announced, let alone the commencement of any hearings!) that he will ensure the nomination vote is brought to the floor of the House and pretty much confirmed that he believes he will have the votes to approve regardless of the outcome of the hearings.


    *and incidentally it is not the role of the Senate to substitute their opinion on the political acceptability of a candidate in place of the President's. But to ensure that the nominee has the capability etc to carry out the duties of a Supreme Court judge, without fear or favour, and disregarding the political merits of cases brought before them.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 1,287
    edited September 27

    Fishing said:

    Sunak is so popular for three reasons I think:

    - he has given away hundreds of billions
    - unlike Boris, he has no serious shadow (Annelise Who?)
    - he isn't really associated with leaving the EU, which antagonises half the country.

    The first may not last, but the other two could well.

    Rishi is popular because alone amongst ministers, he looks calm, collected and in command of his brief. In the midst of the pandemic, Boris blusters, Raab looks out of his depth, Hancock like a deer in headlights. Sunak looks ministerial, even prime ministerial.
    It is easy to look calm and collected when you are giving away hundreds of billions. Much more difficult when you are taking it back. He'd look like a rabbit in headlights too then I'd imagine. When he had to do something difficult or complicated, like invent a furlough scheme for compensating directors of limited companies, he just gave up.

    But we'll see. Maybe he'll be amazing at milking the public. And certainly the fact that he doesn't have a credible shadow works in his favour.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 8,776

    In the cricket, Somerset have declared, leaving Essex what ought to be a gettable 237. Assuming Cook repeats his first innings effort, or something like it.

    Good declaration.
    Gettable. But also bowloutable. Why haven't we had a final before?
  • Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    Sunak is so popular for three reasons I think:

    - he has given away hundreds of billions
    - unlike Boris, he has no serious shadow (Annelise Who?)
    - he isn't really associated with leaving the EU, which antagonises half the country.

    The first may not last, but the other two could well.

    Rishi is popular because alone amongst ministers, he looks calm, collected and in command of his brief. In the midst of the pandemic, Boris blusters, Raab looks out of his depth, Hancock like a deer in headlights. Sunak looks ministerial, even prime ministerial.
    It is easy to look calm and collected when you are giving away hundreds of billions. Much more difficult when you are taking it back. He'd look like a rabbit in headlights too then I'd imagine. When he had to do something difficult or complicated, like invent a furlough scheme for compensating directors of limited companies, he just gave up.

    But we'll see. Maybe he'll be amazing at milking the public. And certainly the fact that he doesn't have a credible shadow works in his favour.
    We have the opposite of China - a Socialist government disguised as a capitalist one .
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 37,638
    Best Bond: Paul Dacre or Charles Moore?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 14,967
    edited September 27
    Pulpstar said:

    I think Amy Barrett being a controversial choice solely because of her likely jurisprudence, and the procedure that got her the spot (And not her character) helps the Democrats. The last thing they needed before the election was another Kavanaugh circus.

    I agree. The election might get messy for various reasons but Biden has it in the bag. It is done barring accidents. When I wish to avoid accidents - or any chance of one - I stay at home in bed. Sleepy Joe should take his nickname to heart and do the political equivalent. 'Less is more' should be the theme from here through to 3/11. The more Trump chases it the more voters he will turn off and the bigger the loss will be.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 37,638
    FF43 said:

    Sunak occupies an intersection on the Venn diagram that is so small it may only contain him: Competent Leaver.

    He is on top of detail, realises cause has effect and avoids being a lying bastard - attributes that set him apart from his colleagues. He is uniquely well placed to take over a big mess, even through objectively he isn't THAT brilliant.

    Grudging, muttered under the breath praise from you is high praise indeed.

    He's exceptional, of course.

    Of course, it *doesn't* mean he has the political skills or experience to survive being PM in office and win an election too though.

    It's one hell of a step up.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 20,033
    edited September 27
    dixiedean said:

    In the cricket, Somerset have declared, leaving Essex what ought to be a gettable 237. Assuming Cook repeats his first innings effort, or something like it.

    Good declaration.
    Gettable. But also bowloutable. Why haven't we had a final before?
    Because we haven't had a Conference system before. Haven't needed one.
    18 off the first 4 overs.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 3,155
    O/T - so i'm reading that EDF (owned 84% by French taxpayers) are arguing for the British taxpayer to underwrite cost of new nuclear plant in Somerset. Wouldn't this be helped along a bit if restrictions on state aid were relaxed a bit in UK-EU trade negotiations... #innocent face

    (yes i know there's probably some argument about use of state aid for national infrastructure...)
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 14,891
    kinabalu said:

    The more Trump chases it the more voters he will turn off and the bigger the loss will be.

    Yup, he's not going to just gently go down to a 6% defeat is he? He'll keep doing crazier and crazier shit in the hope of turning it around. Usually the most audacious candidate wins and the said crazy shit might of course work and turn the race around, but it's much more likely to *increase* Biden's margin, so take the landslide scenarios seriously.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 8,776

    dixiedean said:

    In the cricket, Somerset have declared, leaving Essex what ought to be a gettable 237. Assuming Cook repeats his first innings effort, or something like it.

    Good declaration.
    Gettable. But also bowloutable. Why haven't we had a final before?
    Because we haven't had a Conference system before. Haven't needed one.
    18 off the first 4 overs.
    I understand that.
    Maybe all professional sport needs to take a good look at itself and wonder if the current structures are there because they are suitable or simply because they are?
  • While we worry about impact of WFH might have on our cities, in SF they are trying to mandate it.

    California's Bay Area may require telecommuting, even after the pandemic wanes

    https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/california-s-bay-area-likes-telecommuting-so-much-it-might-n1240898
  • RobDRobD Posts: 49,135

    While we worry about impact of WFH might have on our cities, in SF they are trying to mandate it.

    California's Bay Area may require telecommuting, even after the pandemic wanes

    https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/california-s-bay-area-likes-telecommuting-so-much-it-might-n1240898

    The Bay Area techies, cooped up dozens per house, are undoubtedly going to love this.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 36,727
    What do we think of Fox's new party?

    "This is basically a Ukip for culture and is exactly what the Tory party should be frightened about."

    (Telegraph - quoting a Westminster source).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 36,727

    FF43 said:

    Sunak occupies an intersection on the Venn diagram that is so small it may only contain him: Competent Leaver.

    He is on top of detail, realises cause has effect and avoids being a lying bastard - attributes that set him apart from his colleagues. He is uniquely well placed to take over a big mess, even through objectively he isn't THAT brilliant.

    Grudging, muttered under the breath praise from you is high praise indeed.

    He's exceptional, of course.

    Of course, it *doesn't* mean he has the political skills or experience to survive being PM in office and win an election too though.

    It's one hell of a step up.
    If Sunak does get to the top then Richmond (N Yorks) constituency will have had two Tory leaders as MP.

    Has that happened before?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 3,155
    Seems that Hamilton is likely to get some sort of penalty in the grand prix.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,846

    What do we think of Fox's new party?

    "This is basically a Ukip for culture and is exactly what the Tory party should be frightened about."

    (Telegraph - quoting a Westminster source).

    It will be as successful as Veritas.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 8,776

    What do we think of Fox's new party?

    "This is basically a Ukip for culture and is exactly what the Tory party should be frightened about."

    (Telegraph - quoting a Westminster source).

    QAnon within days of getting any members.
  • alex_ said:

    Seems that Hamilton is likely to get some sort of penalty in the grand prix.

    Apparently there are 30,000 fans there, despite rising cases of covid in Russia.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,846
    FF43 said:

    Sunak occupies an intersection on the Venn diagram that is so small it may only contain him: Competent Leaver.

    He is on top of detail, realises cause has effect and avoids being a lying bastard - attributes that set him apart from his colleagues. He is uniquely well placed to take over a big mess, even through objectively he isn't THAT brilliant.

    Sunak is a true believer in Brexit, after all being willing to go along with No Deal was a prerequisite for being in the Cabinet. He has managed to hide it well though. He is not going to be the one with egg on his face. Leave Bozo to be the fallguy, chuck him out in the Summer, and be installed for 2021 Autumn conference.

    Though I suspect that he won't make it through the contest.

  • Formula 1 drivers have been told they cannot wear clothing bearing any slogans or messages while doing official duties after grands prix.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 17,396

    Formula 1 drivers have been told they cannot wear clothing bearing any slogans or messages while doing official duties after grands prix.

    The Free Speech Union will be on this like a shot.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 8,776
    edited September 27

    Formula 1 drivers have been told they cannot wear clothing bearing any slogans or messages while doing official duties after grands prix.

    LOL. They are walking billboards.
    Presumably corporations' slogans and messages aren't included?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 27,844

    Formula 1 drivers have been told they cannot wear clothing bearing any slogans or messages while doing official duties after grands prix.

    That was because Lewis was wearing a political t-shirt on the podium at the last race. Didn’t go down too well with the sponsors or the organisers.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 7,672
    edited September 27
    Was digging through the latest weekly COVID surveillance report.. I don't think I have seen this plotted for the full epidemic (found the data in the data sheet). This is for England only...

    image
  • Sandpit said:

    Formula 1 drivers have been told they cannot wear clothing bearing any slogans or messages while doing official duties after grands prix.

    That was because Lewis was wearing a political t-shirt on the podium at the last race. Didn’t go down too well with the sponsors or the organisers.
    Yeah, I have a huge amount of respect for the guy but when I saw that I just thought "way too far Lewis"
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 22,244

    Formula 1 drivers have been told they cannot wear clothing bearing any slogans or messages while doing official duties after grands prix.

    That's a rubbish decision, it should be up to the teams and drivers.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 10,899
    edited September 27
    Rishi came up with Eat Out To Help Out which has been a disaster.

    He's by far the best in the cabinet and doesn't come across totally insane so deserves praise for that.

    The Keir Starmer of the Tory Party
  • Cyclefree said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak occupies an intersection on the Venn diagram that is so small it may only contain him: Competent Leaver.

    He is on top of detail, realises cause has effect and avoids being a lying bastard - attributes that set him apart from his colleagues. He is uniquely well placed to take over a big mess, even through objectively he isn't THAT brilliant.

    Grudging, muttered under the breath praise from you is high praise indeed.

    He's exceptional, of course.

    Of course, it *doesn't* mean he has the political skills or experience to survive being PM in office and win an election too though.

    It's one hell of a step up.
    I’m afraid that Sunak is in “In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king” territory. He really is not that good. He initially misdiagnosed the problem by coming out with a loans package which had to be changed in days and his package this week is worthless. It disincentivises employers from keeping on staff, is too tricksy by half, not up to the scale of the crisis, does nothing for those most affected and is out of sync with the rest of the government’s strategy - if it can even be called that.

    By comparison with other Ministers he is coherent, a good communicator, calm, able to present a brief well. He is also ace at his personal PR. As you would expect from an ex-Goldman’s employee. But for all the shiny exterior what substance really is there?

    The Treasury has been the most effective of all the departments. A large part of that is down to the fact that its senior civil servants have been there a long time, are knowledgeable and experienced and, crucially, have experience of the 2008 financial crisis and, therefore, have not acted like rabbits caught in headlights. Bluntly, Cummings has not got his mitts on them. Sunak has benefited from that.
    Agree with all of this. I don't think he will survive the contest to succeed Johnson, which will be brutal even by the Tories' standards. Gove is the one to watch.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 27,844
    MaxPB said:

    Formula 1 drivers have been told they cannot wear clothing bearing any slogans or messages while doing official duties after grands prix.

    That's a rubbish decision, it should be up to the teams and drivers.
    The actual instruction is:

    “ For the duration of the Podium Ceremony and Post Race Interview Procedure, the Drivers finishing in race in positions 1, 2, 3 must remain attired only in their Driving Suits, 'done up' to the neck, not opened to the waist.”.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 11,624
    edited September 27

    FF43 said:

    Sunak occupies an intersection on the Venn diagram that is so small it may only contain him: Competent Leaver.

    He is on top of detail, realises cause has effect and avoids being a lying bastard - attributes that set him apart from his colleagues. He is uniquely well placed to take over a big mess, even through objectively he isn't THAT brilliant.

    Grudging, muttered under the breath praise from you is high praise indeed.

    He's exceptional, of course.

    Of course, it *doesn't* mean he has the political skills or experience to survive being PM in office and win an election too though.

    It's one hell of a step up.
    There are/were good people on the Conservative benches but they have all been banished. The one exception is Sunak who got his job by accident. In that respect he is exceptional.

    Qualify this a bit. I have some time for Hancock. Well intentioned but mediocre. A competent team could carry him. None of the rest are worth the time of day, as far as I know.
  • Sunak is there because he agreed to Cummings' demands, do we really think Cummings would go with a Sunak Premiership?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 5,640

    What do we think of Fox's new party?

    "This is basically a Ukip for culture and is exactly what the Tory party should be frightened about."

    (Telegraph - quoting a Westminster source).

    I'll be disappointed if he doesn't call it Lobbik.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 27,844
    My Bottas bet is looking good!
    As is my safety car bet!
  • I would be most satisfied with a non-Cummings, moderate, sensible Tory Party.

    I would not vote for it, I would respect it
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 3,831
    RobD said:

    While we worry about impact of WFH might have on our cities, in SF they are trying to mandate it.

    California's Bay Area may require telecommuting, even after the pandemic wanes

    https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/california-s-bay-area-likes-telecommuting-so-much-it-might-n1240898

    The Bay Area techies, cooped up dozens per house, are undoubtedly going to love this.
    Especially as lots of hi-tech companies have great "play" areas and good food in their offices as a sweetenter to expecting long hours from their workers.
  • Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?
  • Not that Labour has done much better!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 49,135

    Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Will he now?

    As for your second point. Perhaps the time is right, fifty years after having the UK's first female party leader.
  • RobD said:

    Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Will he now?

    As for your second point. Perhaps the time is right, fifty years after having the UK's first female party leader.
    Who will you be voting for?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 8,776
    edited September 27

    Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Very sadly it would be a way to demolish the newly found Red Wall.
    I take no pleasure in that at all.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 49,135

    RobD said:

    Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Will he now?

    As for your second point. Perhaps the time is right, fifty years after having the UK's first female party leader.
    Who will you be voting for?
    In a future leadership election? No one.
  • Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak occupies an intersection on the Venn diagram that is so small it may only contain him: Competent Leaver.

    He is on top of detail, realises cause has effect and avoids being a lying bastard - attributes that set him apart from his colleagues. He is uniquely well placed to take over a big mess, even through objectively he isn't THAT brilliant.

    Sunak is a true believer in Brexit, after all being willing to go along with No Deal was a prerequisite for being in the Cabinet. He has managed to hide it well though. He is not going to be the one with egg on his face. Leave Bozo to be the fallguy, chuck him out in the Summer, and be installed for 2021 Autumn conference.

    Though I suspect that he won't make it through the contest.

    If Sunak is a " true believer" in Brexit, as he must be to have been given the job, unless I have missed it he seems to have said remarkably little about it. Given the huge potential impact on the Treasury of whatever deal, or not, is struck with the EU, the Chancellor seems to me to be reticent in sharing his thoughts. It's possible that this reflects his ambition: don't alienate any group within the Tories. Or it's possible that he hasn't really thought about it. Or it's possible, though unlikely, that having got up close to the numbers he's having second thoughts on the economic benefits of Brexit.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 20,033
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    In the cricket, Somerset have declared, leaving Essex what ought to be a gettable 237. Assuming Cook repeats his first innings effort, or something like it.

    Good declaration.
    Gettable. But also bowloutable. Why haven't we had a final before?
    Because we haven't had a Conference system before. Haven't needed one.
    18 off the first 4 overs.
    I understand that.
    Maybe all professional sport needs to take a good look at itself and wonder if the current structures are there because they are suitable or simply because they are?
    Agree; it's like WFH, isn't it. We haven't, largely because we didn't think about it a lot! Now we've had to, and the situation doesn't look like improving significantly over the next 6 months (at least!), so we ought to.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 7,672
    dixiedean said:

    Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Very sadly it would be a way to demolish the newly found Red Wall.
    I take no pleasure in that at all.
    If Gove went down that route I suspect it would explode in his face.

    As to Sunak as leader - is there any *detailed* polling on his popularity? Regional, male/female etc?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 11,624

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak occupies an intersection on the Venn diagram that is so small it may only contain him: Competent Leaver.

    He is on top of detail, realises cause has effect and avoids being a lying bastard - attributes that set him apart from his colleagues. He is uniquely well placed to take over a big mess, even through objectively he isn't THAT brilliant.

    Sunak is a true believer in Brexit, after all being willing to go along with No Deal was a prerequisite for being in the Cabinet. He has managed to hide it well though. He is not going to be the one with egg on his face. Leave Bozo to be the fallguy, chuck him out in the Summer, and be installed for 2021 Autumn conference.

    Though I suspect that he won't make it through the contest.

    If Sunak is a " true believer" in Brexit, as he must be to have been given the job, unless I have missed it he seems to have said remarkably little about it. Given the huge potential impact on the Treasury of whatever deal, or not, is struck with the EU, the Chancellor seems to me to be reticent in sharing his thoughts. It's possible that this reflects his ambition: don't alienate any group within the Tories. Or it's possible that he hasn't really thought about it. Or it's possible, though unlikely, that having got up close to the numbers he's having second thoughts on the economic benefits of Brexit.
    I suspect Sunak may not have strong feelings one way or the other. He certainly hasn't revealed them. It could be that he picked up on feelings in his Richmond constituency: get out of the EU and reject May's Deal and acted accordingly.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 36,727
    "Prohibiting customers from drinking in a pub after ten o’clock at night is merely an alteration to existing licensing laws which are already under government authority. But telling people that they cannot allow their relatives from another household into their own homes is of an altogether different order. Crossing that line should not happen in a democracy without relentless, exhaustive demands that it be justified. That is what Parliament is leading the country to expect. It had better deliver."

    Daley in Telegraph
  • eekeek Posts: 9,462

    dixiedean said:

    Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Very sadly it would be a way to demolish the newly found Red Wall.
    I take no pleasure in that at all.
    If Gove went down that route I suspect it would explode in his face.

    As to Sunak as leader - is there any *detailed* polling on his popularity? Regional, male/female etc?
    Only part of that wall - if Sunak was leader all Yorkshire seats and teesside seats would regard him as one of their own for he represents a Yorkshire seat and is frequently seen around Teesside (Red wall seats next to his constituency).
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,706
    F1 setting itself up to be a spicy race. Forgot that it didn't start at 2pm so missed the start. Doh!
  • F1 setting itself up to be a spicy race. Forgot that it didn't start at 2pm so missed the start. Doh!

    Spicy.....its Sheff United vs Leeds at the moment...now that's what I call spicy.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,706
    edited September 27

    F1 setting itself up to be a spicy race. Forgot that it didn't start at 2pm so missed the start. Doh!

    Spicy.....its Sheff United vs Leeds at the moment...now that's what I call spicy.
    What are those small championship clubs up to?
  • MaxPB said:

    Formula 1 drivers have been told they cannot wear clothing bearing any slogans or messages while doing official duties after grands prix.

    That's a rubbish decision, it should be up to the teams and drivers.</blockquote

    Its the right decision - sport is not politics.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 42,596
    Wonder why Sturgeon didn't impose the same lockdown on Glasgow that she did on Aberdeen?

  • eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Very sadly it would be a way to demolish the newly found Red Wall.
    I take no pleasure in that at all.
    If Gove went down that route I suspect it would explode in his face.

    As to Sunak as leader - is there any *detailed* polling on his popularity? Regional, male/female etc?
    Only part of that wall - if Sunak was leader all Yorkshire seats and teesside seats would regard him as one of their own for he represents a Yorkshire seat and is frequently seen around Teesside (Red wall seats next to his constituency).
    As a Yorkshire man, given that Sunak was born in Southampton I'm afraid that we would not regard him as one of our own! I think he's only been in Yorkshire since 2015; it normally takes a minimum of 50 years to qualify for Yorkshire citizenship......
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,706
    edited September 27

    MaxPB said:

    That's a rubbish decision, it should be up to the teams and drivers.

    Its the right decision - sport is not politics.
    For somebody called "state go away" you seem awfully keen on controlling what people do, say, or wear.
  • Sandpit said:

    Formula 1 drivers have been told they cannot wear clothing bearing any slogans or messages while doing official duties after grands prix.

    That was because Lewis was wearing a political t-shirt on the podium at the last race. Didn’t go down too well with the sponsors or the organisers.
    i think it was actually beyond politics and demanding arrests of people wasn't it? Hardly appropriate for a racing car race
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 37,638

    Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Non-Tories love to keep asking this question, in the belief the Tory party is secretly a little bit racist. It just goes to show how little they understand them.

    Tories don't give a shit what colour your skin is - they care if you're good or not.

    I know this is hard for the identity politics obsessed Left to get their heads around but it's the truth.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,706

    Sandpit said:

    Formula 1 drivers have been told they cannot wear clothing bearing any slogans or messages while doing official duties after grands prix.

    That was because Lewis was wearing a political t-shirt on the podium at the last race. Didn’t go down too well with the sponsors or the organisers.
    i think it was actually beyond politics and demanding arrests of people wasn't it? Hardly appropriate for a racing car race
    I doubt Lewis cares what you think is appropriate.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 7,672
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Very sadly it would be a way to demolish the newly found Red Wall.
    I take no pleasure in that at all.
    If Gove went down that route I suspect it would explode in his face.

    As to Sunak as leader - is there any *detailed* polling on his popularity? Regional, male/female etc?
    Only part of that wall - if Sunak was leader all Yorkshire seats and teesside seats would regard him as one of their own for he represents a Yorkshire seat and is frequently seen around Teesside (Red wall seats next to his constituency).
    Found some data:

    for the Midlands -

    Good job: 60%
    Bad job: 9%
    Not sure: 31%

    For the North

    Good job: 45%
    Bad job: 15%
    Not sure: 40%

    Just to compare, London has

    Good job: 43%
    Bad job: 16%
    Not sure: 41%

    and Scotland is -

    Good job: 39%
    Bad job: 19%
    Not sure: 42%

    I can't see much evidence in that to suggest that racists North of Watford don't like him

    Source: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/rishi-sunak-approval-rating
  • Cyclefree said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak occupies an intersection on the Venn diagram that is so small it may only contain him: Competent Leaver.

    He is on top of detail, realises cause has effect and avoids being a lying bastard - attributes that set him apart from his colleagues. He is uniquely well placed to take over a big mess, even through objectively he isn't THAT brilliant.

    Grudging, muttered under the breath praise from you is high praise indeed.

    He's exceptional, of course.

    Of course, it *doesn't* mean he has the political skills or experience to survive being PM in office and win an election too though.

    It's one hell of a step up.
    I’m afraid that Sunak is in “In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king” territory. He really is not that good. He initially misdiagnosed the problem by coming out with a loans package which had to be changed in days and his package this week is worthless. It disincentivises employers from keeping on staff, is too tricksy by half, not up to the scale of the crisis, does nothing for those most affected and is out of sync with the rest of the government’s strategy - if it can even be called that.

    By comparison with other Ministers he is coherent, a good communicator, calm, able to present a brief well. He is also ace at his personal PR. As you would expect from an ex-Goldman’s employee. But for all the shiny exterior what substance really is there?

    The Treasury has been the most effective of all the departments. A large part of that is down to the fact that its senior civil servants have been there a long time, are knowledgeable and experienced and, crucially, have experience of the 2008 financial crisis and, therefore, have not acted like rabbits caught in headlights. Bluntly, Cummings has not got his mitts on them. Sunak has benefited from that.
    Sunak has put the burden of debt onto future generations .That is not acceptable . He is on borrowed (like his policies) time
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,706

    I know this is hard for the identity politics obsessed Left to get their heads around but it's the truth.

    You do realise that by your constant treatment of "the left" is some monolithic "identity politics" entity you're engaging in the exact same identity politics you deride so much.

    Or is "identity politics" only bad if its an identity you don't subscribe to?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 37,638
    RobD said:

    Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Will he now?

    As for your second point. Perhaps the time is right, fifty years after having the UK's first female party leader.
    It will definitely be the Conservatives who get there first.

    Because we treat people as individuals.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 20,033

    Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Non-Tories love to keep asking this question, in the belief the Tory party is secretly a little bit racist. It just goes to show how little they understand them.

    Tories don't give a shit what colour your skin is - they care if you're good or not.

    I know this is hard for the identity politics obsessed Left to get their heads around but it's the truth.
    Ah, but would you let him marry your daughter?

    Before anyone shouts at me, one daughter-in-law in Thai!
  • Sandpit said:

    Formula 1 drivers have been told they cannot wear clothing bearing any slogans or messages while doing official duties after grands prix.

    That was because Lewis was wearing a political t-shirt on the podium at the last race. Didn’t go down too well with the sponsors or the organisers.
    i think it was actually beyond politics and demanding arrests of people wasn't it? Hardly appropriate for a racing car race
    I doubt Lewis cares what you think is appropriate.
    Sorry but I gather this is a forum for airing views isn't it?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,706
    edited September 27

    RobD said:

    Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Will he now?

    As for your second point. Perhaps the time is right, fifty years after having the UK's first female party leader.
    It will definitely be the Conservatives who get there first.

    Because we treat people as individuals.
    No you don't. You treat "the left" as one entity. Evidence is basically almost every post you ever make.
  • Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Non-Tories love to keep asking this question, in the belief the Tory party is secretly a little bit racist. It just goes to show how little they understand them.

    Tories don't give a shit what colour your skin is - they care if you're good or not.

    I know this is hard for the identity politics obsessed Left to get their heads around but it's the truth.
    Well that's fantastic news then, I very much hope he gets a fair hearing.

    The Tory Party is undoubtedly racist though, no amount of shutdown due to "identity politics" is going to stop that. Labour of course is/was racist too.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,706

    Sandpit said:

    Formula 1 drivers have been told they cannot wear clothing bearing any slogans or messages while doing official duties after grands prix.

    That was because Lewis was wearing a political t-shirt on the podium at the last race. Didn’t go down too well with the sponsors or the organisers.
    i think it was actually beyond politics and demanding arrests of people wasn't it? Hardly appropriate for a racing car race
    I doubt Lewis cares what you think is appropriate.
    Sorry but I gather this is a forum for airing views isn't it?
    Since when did someone called "state go away" support controlling what people wear?
  • MaxPB said:

    That's a rubbish decision, it should be up to the teams and drivers.

    Its the right decision - sport is not politics.
    For somebody called "state go away" you seem awfully keen on controlling what people do, say, or wear.
    Sorry if you check (google it perhaps ) you will find that formula one is not run by the state
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 7,672

    I know this is hard for the identity politics obsessed Left to get their heads around but it's the truth.

    You do realise that by your constant treatment of "the left" is some monolithic "identity politics" entity you're engaging in the exact same identity politics you deride so much.

    Or is "identity politics" only bad if its an identity you don't subscribe to?
    I would say that there is a portion of "progressive" politics that tries to see everything though the lens of race. The same people seem to find successful minorities as a problem.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,706

    MaxPB said:

    That's a rubbish decision, it should be up to the teams and drivers.

    Its the right decision - sport is not politics.
    For somebody called "state go away" you seem awfully keen on controlling what people do, say, or wear.
    Sorry if you check (google it perhaps ) you will find that formula one is not run by the state
    You clearly believe in individual liberty. Thus why do you support Formula 1 controlling what Lewis Hamilton wears? Who cares what he wears?
  • Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak occupies an intersection on the Venn diagram that is so small it may only contain him: Competent Leaver.

    He is on top of detail, realises cause has effect and avoids being a lying bastard - attributes that set him apart from his colleagues. He is uniquely well placed to take over a big mess, even through objectively he isn't THAT brilliant.

    Sunak is a true believer in Brexit, after all being willing to go along with No Deal was a prerequisite for being in the Cabinet. He has managed to hide it well though. He is not going to be the one with egg on his face. Leave Bozo to be the fallguy, chuck him out in the Summer, and be installed for 2021 Autumn conference.

    Though I suspect that he won't make it through the contest.

    Like all other ministers, Sunak is relaxed about the government not being subject to the rule of law. History will show that to have been a very bad look. That said, he is clearly politically astute, presentable, pragmatic and capable of mastering a brief. He would be a huge step up from the current PM - and you can't say that about many of the cabinet.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,706

    I know this is hard for the identity politics obsessed Left to get their heads around but it's the truth.

    You do realise that by your constant treatment of "the left" is some monolithic "identity politics" entity you're engaging in the exact same identity politics you deride so much.

    Or is "identity politics" only bad if its an identity you don't subscribe to?
    I would say that there is a portion of "progressive" politics that tries to see everything though the lens of race. The same people seem to find successful minorities as a problem.
    I don't disagree with you. However there is a portion of those on the right who seem to treat everybody on "the left" as some monolithic entity. That's identity politics too and it's just as bad.

    Some people may need to check their hypocrisy.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 37,638
    edited September 27
    Cyclefree said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak occupies an intersection on the Venn diagram that is so small it may only contain him: Competent Leaver.

    He is on top of detail, realises cause has effect and avoids being a lying bastard - attributes that set him apart from his colleagues. He is uniquely well placed to take over a big mess, even through objectively he isn't THAT brilliant.

    Grudging, muttered under the breath praise from you is high praise indeed.

    He's exceptional, of course.

    Of course, it *doesn't* mean he has the political skills or experience to survive being PM in office and win an election too though.

    It's one hell of a step up.
    I’m afraid that Sunak is in “In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king” territory. He really is not that good. He initially misdiagnosed the problem by coming out with a loans package which had to be changed in days and his package this week is worthless. It disincentivises employers from keeping on staff, is too tricksy by half, not up to the scale of the crisis, does nothing for those most affected and is out of sync with the rest of the government’s strategy - if it can even be called that.

    By comparison with other Ministers he is coherent, a good communicator, calm, able to present a brief well. He is also ace at his personal PR. As you would expect from an ex-Goldman’s employee. But for all the shiny exterior what substance really is there?

    The Treasury has been the most effective of all the departments. A large part of that is down to the fact that its senior civil servants have been there a long time, are knowledgeable and experienced and, crucially, have experience of the 2008 financial crisis and, therefore, have not acted like rabbits caught in headlights. Bluntly, Cummings has not got his mitts on them. Sunak has benefited from that.
    It's easy to criticise - and you do sometimes come across as a perpetual opposer. You did it over Brown's Labour, Cameron's Government, the EU negotiation (you were a very heavy flirter with Brexit in 2016), then May and now Boris - uber critical.

    Fine. I often share your views - particularly on the latter. But, your posts would be even more powerful if you occasionally pointed out someone's positives or where Government had done well rather than being perpetually critical.

    I don't think you can put all the credit on HM Treasury and none on the Chancellor in what are exceptional times. He has to analyse, consult, make the decisions, present them and win people over - and he carries the can.

    He's not a puppet. As him standing up to Boris has shown. So he deserves a bit of grudging acknowledgement, if nothing else.
  • I know this is hard for the identity politics obsessed Left to get their heads around but it's the truth.

    You do realise that by your constant treatment of "the left" is some monolithic "identity politics" entity you're engaging in the exact same identity politics you deride so much.

    Or is "identity politics" only bad if its an identity you don't subscribe to?
    I would say that there is a portion of "progressive" politics that tries to see everything though the lens of race. The same people seem to find successful minorities as a problem.
    Sunak is undoubtedly the best candidate for PM the Tories have and I wish him every success, I stand by my accusation the Tory Party is racist though.

    Look at their Islamophobia issues for a start
  • RobDRobD Posts: 49,135

    I know this is hard for the identity politics obsessed Left to get their heads around but it's the truth.

    You do realise that by your constant treatment of "the left" is some monolithic "identity politics" entity you're engaging in the exact same identity politics you deride so much.

    Or is "identity politics" only bad if its an identity you don't subscribe to?
    I would say that there is a portion of "progressive" politics that tries to see everything though the lens of race. The same people seem to find successful minorities as a problem.
    I don't disagree with you. However there is a portion of those on the right who seem to treat everybody on "the left" as some monolithic entity. That's identity politics too and it's just as bad.

    Some people may need to check their hypocrisy.
    Was he, or was he referring to the identity politics obsessed Left, a subset of the Left?
  • MaxPB said:

    That's a rubbish decision, it should be up to the teams and drivers.

    Its the right decision - sport is not politics.
    For somebody called "state go away" you seem awfully keen on controlling what people do, say, or wear.
    Sorry if you check (google it perhaps ) you will find that formula one is not run by the state
    You clearly believe in individual liberty. Thus why do you support Formula 1 controlling what Lewis Hamilton wears? Who cares what he wears?
    I believe in liberty from the state . Other organisations can have whatever rules they like . As a sports fan I dont like to see politics and sport mixed . I like to watch sport for its own sake not be force fed politics through it. Especially dont like sport being used to demand arrests of people.
  • alex_ said:

    O/T - so i'm reading that EDF (owned 84% by French taxpayers) are arguing for the British taxpayer to underwrite cost of new nuclear plant in Somerset. Wouldn't this be helped along a bit if restrictions on state aid were relaxed a bit in UK-EU trade negotiations... #innocent face

    (yes i know there's probably some argument about use of state aid for national infrastructure...)

    Germany spends a lot on infrastructure. It would be nice to know quite what are the EU rules to which Brexiteers object, especially the Thatcherite half to whom state aid is itself anathema.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,706
    RobD said:

    I know this is hard for the identity politics obsessed Left to get their heads around but it's the truth.

    You do realise that by your constant treatment of "the left" is some monolithic "identity politics" entity you're engaging in the exact same identity politics you deride so much.

    Or is "identity politics" only bad if its an identity you don't subscribe to?
    I would say that there is a portion of "progressive" politics that tries to see everything though the lens of race. The same people seem to find successful minorities as a problem.
    I don't disagree with you. However there is a portion of those on the right who seem to treat everybody on "the left" as some monolithic entity. That's identity politics too and it's just as bad.

    Some people may need to check their hypocrisy.
    Was he, or was he referring to the identity politics obsessed Left, a subset of the Left?
    It's always the same. It's always "the left". It doesn't mean anything, but it propagates the whole "us vs them" culture war narrative which is not helpful whatsoever.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 37,638

    Gove will be looking for signs of cocaine use in Sunak's background.

    Also is the Tory Party ready to elect a non-white leader?

    Non-Tories love to keep asking this question, in the belief the Tory party is secretly a little bit racist. It just goes to show how little they understand them.

    Tories don't give a shit what colour your skin is - they care if you're good or not.

    I know this is hard for the identity politics obsessed Left to get their heads around but it's the truth.
    Well that's fantastic news then, I very much hope he gets a fair hearing.

    The Tory Party is undoubtedly racist though, no amount of shutdown due to "identity politics" is going to stop that. Labour of course is/was racist too.
    Eh? Where do you get that from?

    Seriously?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,706

    MaxPB said:

    That's a rubbish decision, it should be up to the teams and drivers.

    Its the right decision - sport is not politics.
    For somebody called "state go away" you seem awfully keen on controlling what people do, say, or wear.
    Sorry if you check (google it perhaps ) you will find that formula one is not run by the state
    You clearly believe in individual liberty. Thus why do you support Formula 1 controlling what Lewis Hamilton wears? Who cares what he wears?
    I believe in liberty from the state . Other organisations can have whatever rules they like . As a sports fan I dont like to see politics and sport mixed . I like to watch sport for its own sake not be force fed politics through it. Especially dont like sport being used to demand arrests of people.
    You must be a very sensitive soul if you think someone wearing a T-shirt is "forcing feeding you politics". Bless you.

    I suggest you toughen up and stop being such a snowflake.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 49,135

    RobD said:

    I know this is hard for the identity politics obsessed Left to get their heads around but it's the truth.

    You do realise that by your constant treatment of "the left" is some monolithic "identity politics" entity you're engaging in the exact same identity politics you deride so much.

    Or is "identity politics" only bad if its an identity you don't subscribe to?
    I would say that there is a portion of "progressive" politics that tries to see everything though the lens of race. The same people seem to find successful minorities as a problem.
    I don't disagree with you. However there is a portion of those on the right who seem to treat everybody on "the left" as some monolithic entity. That's identity politics too and it's just as bad.

    Some people may need to check their hypocrisy.
    Was he, or was he referring to the identity politics obsessed Left, a subset of the Left?
    It's always the same. It's always "the left". It doesn't mean anything, but it propagates the whole "us vs them" culture war narrative which is not helpful whatsoever.
    Except it wasn't "the left" that he was referring to.
This discussion has been closed.