Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be honest I have no idea and really wish I had an answer
You’re right, there isn’t really an answer. The problem is that it isn’t just as simple as “send all the students home”.
Every Tory leader I can think of has always gone behind in the polls, normally much quicker than this. Cameron spent virtually the entire 2010-2015 Parliament behind Ed. Thatcher went behind immediately after entering Downing Street in 1979.
There's no point panicking or over-reacting. A Labour lead was inevitable.
Whilst all of that is true you would be hard pushed to find another PM who turned a 26% lead into a 3% loss in 6 months.
Theresa May 2017 comes very close to that.
The Tory share has barely moved from its election levels, for a year past the election the Tory share has not dropped that much in historical terms.
The change mainly comes from the Labour side largely uniting non-Tory votes with the Lib Dems down to much less than they got even at the 2015 Election. We'll see if that's sustainable or actually happens.
Yes you are right. The missing ingredient from the recipe is a resurgence of the LD vote at the expense of the Conservatives. There is no sign of that and Labour seem to have hoovered up that vote, but Labour 'til I die Red Wallers remain resolutely in Johnson's camp.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be fair, that is less of a problem in the context that this started being debated. The conditions for students quarantining in private accommodation off campus is less extreme and less enforceable. It is akin to the self isolation going on in the rest of the country (with people, as a minimum, bending the official rules to go for walks and things without serious prospect of enforcement consequences). Secondly a quarantine period for such students is not an ongoing problem. Covid will sweep through their house and that will be it.
That is very different from the prospect facing students in campus accommodation facing strict, strongly enforced, ongoing rolling quarantines in horrible accommodation, every time a handful of new cases hits their blocks.
I guess Blair was right, tacking towards the centre is the way to electoral success.
I was wrong - I am happy to admit that
See, that's very true. But, Starmer is still quite strongly on the left flank economically. What he's realised is that the British public have tacked quite strongly to the left on economic issues since 2008, but have moved away from liberalism a bit. Not to the extent that the madder Tories have done, but they're mostly fed up of culture wars and disliked Corbyn (and his shadow cabinet) based on those issues. Steal the cloak of patriotism, look competent and espouse social democratic economic policy and you might end up with something that looks and sounds like Clem Atlee. If you squint.
Indeed. As further evidence in support of that I present.........
Claire Ainsley: Director of Policy - Leader of the Opposition, Keir Starmer MP; Author 'The New Working Class: how to win hearts, minds and votes' (and occasional contributor to 'Brexit Central' in the past).
In so far as I can tell from the Amazon preview, the prescription in her book seems to match the direction Starmer has been heading so far. It sounds like it's worth a read.
We shall know whether or not Starmer is that keen on a significant leftwards shift in policy if he doesn't just talk about a larger and more interventionist state but proposes realistic means to fund it (i.e. not just empty rhetoric about soaking billionaires and bankers.) If we're going to go Scandiwegian then we're going to need a broader tax base, which means (at a minimum) that the upward creep of the personal allowance has to stop, the higher rate threshold needs to be lowered and there needs to be a greater focus on the taxation of assets as well as salaries as a source of revenue.
And then there's the Great Ponzi Scheme (i.e. the state pension) to be considered. Never mind some of the ideas that have been recently mooted to soak the middle aged in order to set up a novel fund to deal with the elderly care problem. Tens, ultimately hundreds, of billions a year in future expenditure can be saved by junking the triple lock. Or, alternatively, if that's too much of a PR problem for Starmer to stomach, then he could circumvent it by clawing back more pensioner income in tax. The exact mechanism - whether that's done, for example, by imposing a new care levy on the old, or by making them pay national insurance - doesn't much matter. The principle is that the gradual squeezing to death of a shrinking population of working people to keep codgers minted must be stopped, or else everything will eventually fall apart.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be fair, that is less of a problem in the context that this started being debated. The conditions for students quarantining in private accommodation off campus is less extreme and less enforceable. It is akin to the self isolation going on in the rest of the country (with people, as a minimum, bending the official rules to go for walks and things without serious prospect of enforcement consequences). Secondly a quarantine period for such students is not an ongoing problem. Covid will sweep through their house and that will be it.
That is very different from the prospect facing students in campus accommodation facing strict, strongly enforced, ongoing rolling quarantines in horrible accommodation, every time a handful of new cases hits their blocks.
Many student “blocks” are private too. What even is the suggestion here? Send only 1st years in university owned student “blocks” home?
If you enforce university to be online only completely, those in private accommodation off campus are still paying for accommodation they don’t need and also don’t want.
So he's strongly biased against the BBC and the TV licence, despite all opinions of BBC content being indirectly sourced from others, and not paying the TV licence, not out of protest but because he has no legal requirement to do so. Perfect!
Normally this opinion poll would be exactly what one would expect in the normal rhythm of politics, and it would mean absolutely zilch this far away from a general election. However, the natives on the Tory backbenches are a bit restless, noticeably so given we are only 9 months into this government's rule. That's because quite a lot recognise, if they are honest with themselves, that Boris is simply not up to the job of PM. He's been dealt a weak hand, but has played it particularly badly. If Labour leads for a couple of months, or increases its lead, that restlessness will only increase. So, I reckon this poll counts for a bit more than it normally would - something, rather than absolutely zilch.
I have for a few weeks predicted Boris would be out in the first 6 months of 2021
He just is not cutting it and Cummings, Williamson and his IMB have all been a disaster
He has lost his authority and does not look well
Time to go and spend it with Carrie and his little one and write columns for newspapers
The article seems to think people will revolt over the increased restrictions - but the Opinium poll shows overwhelming support for them, and a preference for them being tougher.
At a guess, from old people sitting at home on fat pensions and white collar workers working from home on fat salaries. We'll see how long that attitude survives the effects of the total lockdown we've got coming that will last all the way until next Easter.
The former group will be cosseted regardless, but the latter may not be so pleased when 1930s levels of unemployment means they're handing over most of their salaries in tax.
Well, you don't have to guess. Look at the poll. 40% think stricter measures are needed; 16% think them too strict. The figures are pretty consistent across all age groups.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be honest I have no idea and really wish I had an answer
You’re right, there isn’t really an answer. The problem is that it isn’t just as simple as “send all the students home”.
Indeed, sending students home now may be the quickest way to spread the bug. I am not planning to see Fox jr2 until Christmas, and then he will need to isolate for at least a week before meeting others in the family.
He is a healthy 19yr old, best to front it out. We have returned schools and Universities and need to stick with it. Constant U turns and absent leadership is not what we need.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be honest I have no idea and really wish I had an answer
You’re right, there isn’t really an answer. The problem is that it isn’t just as simple as “send all the students home”.
The big error was no one managing higher education saw the second wave hitting quite when it did. Students started returning to University the weekend after Johnson told us all to stop working from home and go back to work, even engineering a Telegraph headline suggesting we would all be sacked if we didn't. So like the Spanish Inquisition, the second wave, two weeks later was unexpected, and it just happened to coincide with freshers' week.
It is true some students have behaved like...well students, but I can't help feeling they are all being scapegoated to deflect from someone else's shortcomings.
I think that the smart first year students got places at their hometown uni and still have their mothers doing their laundry and making their tea.
Fox jr 2 was wise to go for flatshare with a mate rather than halls.
They all knew that a lot would be online, and lockdowns likely, they are intelligent young people. But what is the alternative? Sit on the sofa at home for a year, no travel or jobs? And will it be better next year? Better to keep going.
I think i will still try and give a luxury stay in the ICU a miss if possible.
The thread is worth a read. ICU admissions more ethnic and from poorer communities.
Which is why the rich men in the Commons & Lords spent so much on Bazalgette's drains. Because the what kills the poor today will be killing you at breakfast tomorrow....
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be fair, that is less of a problem in the context that this started being debated. The conditions for students quarantining in private accommodation off campus is less extreme and less enforceable. It is akin to the self isolation going on in the rest of the country (with people, as a minimum, bending the official rules to go for walks and things without serious prospect of enforcement consequences). Secondly a quarantine period for such students is not an ongoing problem. Covid will sweep through their house and that will be it.
That is very different from the prospect facing students in campus accommodation facing strict, strongly enforced, ongoing rolling quarantines in horrible accommodation, every time a handful of new cases hits their blocks.
Many student “blocks” are private too. What even is the suggestion here? Send only 1st years in university owned student “blocks” home?
If you enforce university to be online only completely, those in private accommodation off campus are still paying for accommodation they don’t need and also don’t want.
If university becomes online only then students can stay in their private accommodation with their friends or return home and live with their parents, their choice.
If it were up to me I would want to give the students the right to get out of the contract if they want to do so, though I'm not sure how that would work.
Every Tory leader I can think of has always gone behind in the polls, normally much quicker than this. Cameron spent virtually the entire 2010-2015 Parliament behind Ed. Thatcher went behind immediately after entering Downing Street in 1979.
There's no point panicking or over-reacting. A Labour lead was inevitable.
Following his 1959 election triumph Macmillan did not fall behind Gaitskell's Labour opposition until early Autumn 1961 - almost two years later. Similarly Thatcher's 1987 victory saw the Tories retain the lead until May 1989. Starmer is clearly outperforming both Gaitskell and Kinnock in those earlier Parliaments.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be fair, that is less of a problem in the context that this started being debated. The conditions for students quarantining in private accommodation off campus is less extreme and less enforceable. It is akin to the self isolation going on in the rest of the country (with people, as a minimum, bending the official rules to go for walks and things without serious prospect of enforcement consequences). Secondly a quarantine period for such students is not an ongoing problem. Covid will sweep through their house and that will be it.
That is very different from the prospect facing students in campus accommodation facing strict, strongly enforced, ongoing rolling quarantines in horrible accommodation, every time a handful of new cases hits their blocks.
Many student “blocks” are private too. What even is the suggestion here? Send only 1st years in university owned student “blocks” home?
If you enforce university to be online only completely, those in private accommodation off campus are still paying for accommodation they don’t need and also don’t want.
If university becomes online only then students can stay in their private accommodation with their friends or return home and live with their parents, their choice.
If it were up to me I would want to give the students the right to get out of the contract if they want to do so, though I'm not sure how that would work.
It ain't going to do the students any good if the Universities go broke, and there is nowhere to go back to.
Would be quite fitting if the licence fee is to be abolished, would be hypocritical if the fee is to be kept.
I would be OK with him being appointed and it being fitting.
There may be a point in the not to distant future when the penny drops and you start to think to yourself, 'this Government's hostile appointments are all looking very like Trump's America'.
Appointing Dacre and Moore to adjudicate on the mainstream broadcast media is not disimilar to Trump appointing Kavanagh and Gorsuch to adjudicate on Election 2020.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be fair, that is less of a problem in the context that this started being debated. The conditions for students quarantining in private accommodation off campus is less extreme and less enforceable. It is akin to the self isolation going on in the rest of the country (with people, as a minimum, bending the official rules to go for walks and things without serious prospect of enforcement consequences). Secondly a quarantine period for such students is not an ongoing problem. Covid will sweep through their house and that will be it.
That is very different from the prospect facing students in campus accommodation facing strict, strongly enforced, ongoing rolling quarantines in horrible accommodation, every time a handful of new cases hits their blocks.
Many student “blocks” are private too. What even is the suggestion here? Send only 1st years in university owned student “blocks” home?
If you enforce university to be online only completely, those in private accommodation off campus are still paying for accommodation they don’t need and also don’t want.
Oh absolutely. I'm just suggesting that for those in private accommodation it is just a case of money spent "unnecessarily" (in most cases on the never never of student loans - and which in normal circumstances they would have expected to pay) but it overall isn't a massive 'problem'.
Campus accommodation in large halls of residence is a massive problem if Universities/Govt are going to persist in the approach they appear to be currently taking. And no i don't think sending everyone home is a realistic solution. Ideally you would say the solution is some sort of "campus quarantine" to allow students to mix freely, but strongly discourage/prevent mixing with outside parties. How feasible that it though - probably not much.
Although why people are still talking about what happens "at Christmas" baffles me. The problem to be solved is now and in the coming few weeks and months. It seems to me to be unlikely to be a problem to anything like the same extent come Christmas.
Equally i am baffled by people painting scenarios of full lockdown 2.0 until next Spring. Seems to be little rationale for that either (even if, as currently seems unlikely) the Government has any appetite for instigating another mandated shutdown of the economy. As opposed to a Sweden style (in this aspect at least) "defacto " "shutdown" which reduces economic activity through personal risk decisions, but leaves a pool of (mainly younger) people content to continue going out, socialising and shopping. "Lockdowns" of whatever stripe, are not likely to require lasting anything like that long before numbers begin to turn back in favour. There will be a large enough percentage of the population keeping themselves safe enough regardless of Govt diktat.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be fair, that is less of a problem in the context that this started being debated. The conditions for students quarantining in private accommodation off campus is less extreme and less enforceable. It is akin to the self isolation going on in the rest of the country (with people, as a minimum, bending the official rules to go for walks and things without serious prospect of enforcement consequences). Secondly a quarantine period for such students is not an ongoing problem. Covid will sweep through their house and that will be it.
That is very different from the prospect facing students in campus accommodation facing strict, strongly enforced, ongoing rolling quarantines in horrible accommodation, every time a handful of new cases hits their blocks.
Many student “blocks” are private too. What even is the suggestion here? Send only 1st years in university owned student “blocks” home?
If you enforce university to be online only completely, those in private accommodation off campus are still paying for accommodation they don’t need and also don’t want.
If university becomes online only then students can stay in their private accommodation with their friends or return home and live with their parents, their choice.
If it were up to me I would want to give the students the right to get out of the contract if they want to do so, though I'm not sure how that would work.
The latter will never happen because on the whole landlords vote Tory.
The issue is that the unintended consequences of the former is that it will result in so many defaults, the courts will be completely blocked up with housing cases and students will get county court judgments in their thousands. All because someone in the government made the wrong decision (or worse, no decision) on what the plan was for university education this September.
Would be quite fitting if the licence fee is to be abolished, would be hypocritical if the fee is to be kept.
I would be OK with him being appointed and it being fitting.
There may be a point in the not to distant future when the penny drops and you start to think to yourself, 'this Government's hostile appointments are all looking very like Trump's America'.
Appointing Dacre and Moore to adjudicate on the mainstream broadcast media is not disimilar to Trump appointing Kavanagh and Gorsuch to adjudicate on Election 2020.
It is just Cummings trashing every British institution. Wrecking the odd statue is nothing compared to wrecking the BBC.
Would be quite fitting if the licence fee is to be abolished, would be hypocritical if the fee is to be kept.
I would be OK with him being appointed and it being fitting.
There may be a point in the not to distant future when the penny drops and you start to think to yourself, 'this Government's hostile appointments are all looking very like Trump's America'.
Appointing Dacre and Moore to adjudicate on the mainstream broadcast media is not disimilar to Trump appointing Kavanagh and Gorsuch to adjudicate on Election 2020.
It is just Cummings trashing every British institution. Wrecking the odd statue is nothing compared to wrecking the BBC.
Many of what Cummings would consider to be swamp-draining activities have been completed using stealth. This time, with the media, he is baton-twirling a sledgehammer. He couldn't give a toss for subterfuge anymore.
Well done LAB fans on here for getting excited by the 3% poll lead!
I've ben around longer than most of you and have been LAB in my time - given it's mid term and the CORONA mess LAB need to be 40% clear now to think of any chance of winning GE2024
We are still a fair way from midterm - at least 12 months away!
Well done LAB fans on here for getting excited by the 3% poll lead!
I've ben around longer than most of you and have been LAB in my time - given it's mid term and the CORONA mess LAB need to be 40% clear now to think of any chance of winning GE2024
40% clear? Now there's a thought.
OK LAB were 40% clear in 1995 but that was in normal times. They would need to be 40% clear in today's CORONA shambles as that only equates to 20% clear in normal times like 1990. CON won in 1992.
I guess Blair was right, tacking towards the centre is the way to electoral success.
I was wrong - I am happy to admit that
But Blair moved to the Right of earlier Tory Governments - not the centre.
I am not sure that is remotely correct. Blair's social policy in particular, was very much that of a Social Democrat and not a Thatcherite.
But he failed to reverse the privatisation programme - indeed he took it further. No attempt - beyond GCHQ - to amend the anti-Trade Union laws - and he continued the obsession with reducing Income Tax and other direct taxes.His government was well to the Right of the 1951 - 64 Tory Governments and the second half of the Heath Government.
Equally i am baffled by people painting scenarios of full lockdown 2.0 until next Spring. Seems to be little rationale for that either (even if, as currently seems unlikely) the Government has any appetite for instigating another mandated shutdown of the economy. As opposed to a Sweden style (in this aspect at least) "defacto " "shutdown" which reduces economic activity through personal risk decisions, but leaves a pool of (mainly younger) people content to continue going out, socialising and shopping. "Lockdowns" of whatever stripe, are not likely to require lasting anything like that long before numbers begin to turn back in favour. There will be a large enough percentage of the population keeping themselves safe enough regardless of Govt diktat.
The Government - or, at any rate, the Prime Minister, which largely amounts to the same thing - is capricious, confused, directionless and traumatised. It makes complete sense to suppose that, when we are repeatedly told that it really doesn't want to impose another lockdown, that this is exactly what it wants to do and it's only a matter of time before it happens.
Johnson has probably never properly recovered from his brush with death, his scientific advisers are deeply fearful of a fresh tsunami of hospital cases and seem likely to advocate the most radical measures possible to ensure its prevention, at (literally) all cost, and I'm quite sure that Hancock cares for nothing but making sure that the hospitals are kept half-empty, rather than there being any further news broadcasts from ICUs stuffed with ventilator cases. Hence my suspicion that the only reason we're not already in lockdown is that the Government wants to give the extra measures taken to combat the disease long enough to fail, and to be seen to fail (and they will fail, if the criterion is that cases somehow start going steadily downwards again into the teeth of the Autumn, with the schools now back and several million students returning to campuses,) so that they can then try to pin lockdown on the public for being insufficiently obedient to their interventions, rather than on their own PTSD-induced state of total, uncoordinated panic.
Given the circumstances, I dare say Johnson is more than happy to leave Sunak to try to deal with the economic train wreck that's coming just round the corner. When he fails then that will give him somebody else to deflect the blame onto and get rid of the main threat within his own party, all in one go.
The threat of mass unemployment on a scale not seen in almost a century is entirely incidental to the tunnel vision fixation on the virus. They'll keep their fingers crossed for a vaccine at some point next year, and then worry what to do about poverty and destitution on a vast scale afterwards. Now, I will be absolutely thrilled to be proven wrong about all of this, because even if I manage to stay in a job throughout this lengthy, possibly endless, nightmare it's still going to be a truly God-awful time to live through. But given what we know about this Government and the people in and around it, it seems only prudent to assume the worst at every turn.
Equally i am baffled by people painting scenarios of full lockdown 2.0 until next Spring. Seems to be little rationale for that either (even if, as currently seems unlikely) the Government has any appetite for instigating another mandated shutdown of the economy. As opposed to a Sweden style (in this aspect at least) "defacto " "shutdown" which reduces economic activity through personal risk decisions, but leaves a pool of (mainly younger) people content to continue going out, socialising and shopping. "Lockdowns" of whatever stripe, are not likely to require lasting anything like that long before numbers begin to turn back in favour. There will be a large enough percentage of the population keeping themselves safe enough regardless of Govt diktat.
The Government - or, at any rate, the Prime Minister, which largely amounts to the same thing - is capricious, confused, directionless and traumatised. It makes complete sense to suppose that, when we are repeatedly told that it really doesn't want to impose another lockdown, that this is exactly what it wants to do and it's only a matter of time before it happens.
Johnson has probably never properly recovered from his brush with death, his scientific advisers are deeply fearful of a fresh tsunami of hospital cases and seem likely to advocate the most radical measures possible to ensure its prevention, at (literally) all cost, and I'm quite sure that Hancock cares for nothing but making sure that the hospitals are kept half-empty, rather than there being any further news broadcasts from ICUs stuffed with ventilator cases. Hence my suspicion that the only reason we're not already in lockdown is that the Government wants to give the extra measures taken to combat the disease long enough to fail, and to be seen to fail (and they will fail, if the criterion is that cases somehow start going steadily downwards again into the teeth of the Autumn, with the schools now back and several million students returning to campuses,) so that they can then try to pin lockdown on the public for being insufficiently obedient to their interventions, rather than on their own PTSD-induced state of total, uncoordinated panic.
Given the circumstances, I dare say Johnson is more than happy to leave Sunak to try to deal with the economic train wreck that's coming just round the corner. When he fails then that will give him somebody else to deflect the blame onto and get rid of the main threat within his own party, all in one go.
The threat of mass unemployment on a scale not seen in almost a century is entirely incidental to the tunnel vision fixation on the virus. They'll keep their fingers crossed for a vaccine at some point next year, and then worry what to do about poverty and destitution on a vast scale afterwards. Now, I will be absolutely thrilled to be proven wrong about all of this, because even if I manage to stay in a job throughout this lengthy, possibly endless, nightmare it's still going to be a truly God-awful time to live through. But given what we know about this Government and the people in and around it, it seems only prudent to assume the worst at every turn.
Even if all that is true and comes to pass, I still struggle to see how that makes it through to Christmas, let alone March.
Equally i am baffled by people painting scenarios of full lockdown 2.0 until next Spring. Seems to be little rationale for that either (even if, as currently seems unlikely) the Government has any appetite for instigating another mandated shutdown of the economy. As opposed to a Sweden style (in this aspect at least) "defacto " "shutdown" which reduces economic activity through personal risk decisions, but leaves a pool of (mainly younger) people content to continue going out, socialising and shopping. "Lockdowns" of whatever stripe, are not likely to require lasting anything like that long before numbers begin to turn back in favour. There will be a large enough percentage of the population keeping themselves safe enough regardless of Govt diktat.
The Government - or, at any rate, the Prime Minister, which largely amounts to the same thing - is capricious, confused, directionless and traumatised. It makes complete sense to suppose that, when we are repeatedly told that it really doesn't want to impose another lockdown, that this is exactly what it wants to do and it's only a matter of time before it happens.
Johnson has probably never properly recovered from his brush with death, his scientific advisers are deeply fearful of a fresh tsunami of hospital cases and seem likely to advocate the most radical measures possible to ensure its prevention, at (literally) all cost, and I'm quite sure that Hancock cares for nothing but making sure that the hospitals are kept half-empty, rather than there being any further news broadcasts from ICUs stuffed with ventilator cases. Hence my suspicion that the only reason we're not already in lockdown is that the Government wants to give the extra measures taken to combat the disease long enough to fail, and to be seen to fail (and they will fail, if the criterion is that cases somehow start going steadily downwards again into the teeth of the Autumn, with the schools now back and several million students returning to campuses,) so that they can then try to pin lockdown on the public for being insufficiently obedient to their interventions, rather than on their own PTSD-induced state of total, uncoordinated panic.
Given the circumstances, I dare say Johnson is more than happy to leave Sunak to try to deal with the economic train wreck that's coming just round the corner. When he fails then that will give him somebody else to deflect the blame onto and get rid of the main threat within his own party, all in one go.
The threat of mass unemployment on a scale not seen in almost a century is entirely incidental to the tunnel vision fixation on the virus. They'll keep their fingers crossed for a vaccine at some point next year, and then worry what to do about poverty and destitution on a vast scale afterwards. Now, I will be absolutely thrilled to be proven wrong about all of this, because even if I manage to stay in a job throughout this lengthy, possibly endless, nightmare it's still going to be a truly God-awful time to live through. But given what we know about this Government and the people in and around it, it seems only prudent to assume the worst at every turn.
Even if all that is true and comes to pass, I still struggle to see how that makes it through to Christmas, let alone March.
Stay at Home, Protect the NHS, Save Lives - repeated on an endless loop through public information broadcasts, and accompanied by the latest prognostication from Professor Pantsdown that two million grannies will die a slow and agonizing death if we're let out before daytime temperatures consistently exceed 20°C. Or something very like it.
Equally i am baffled by people painting scenarios of full lockdown 2.0 until next Spring. Seems to be little rationale for that either (even if, as currently seems unlikely) the Government has any appetite for instigating another mandated shutdown of the economy. As opposed to a Sweden style (in this aspect at least) "defacto " "shutdown" which reduces economic activity through personal risk decisions, but leaves a pool of (mainly younger) people content to continue going out, socialising and shopping. "Lockdowns" of whatever stripe, are not likely to require lasting anything like that long before numbers begin to turn back in favour. There will be a large enough percentage of the population keeping themselves safe enough regardless of Govt diktat.
The Government - or, at any rate, the Prime Minister, which largely amounts to the same thing - is capricious, confused, directionless and traumatised. It makes complete sense to suppose that, when we are repeatedly told that it really doesn't want to impose another lockdown, that this is exactly what it wants to do and it's only a matter of time before it happens.
Johnson has probably never properly recovered from his brush with death, his scientific advisers are deeply fearful of a fresh tsunami of hospital cases and seem likely to advocate the most radical measures possible to ensure its prevention, at (literally) all cost, and I'm quite sure that Hancock cares for nothing but making sure that the hospitals are kept half-empty, rather than there being any further news broadcasts from ICUs stuffed with ventilator cases. Hence my suspicion that the only reason we're not already in lockdown is that the Government wants to give the extra measures taken to combat the disease long enough to fail, and to be seen to fail (and they will fail, if the criterion is that cases somehow start going steadily downwards again into the teeth of the Autumn, with the schools now back and several million students returning to campuses,) so that they can then try to pin lockdown on the public for being insufficiently obedient to their interventions, rather than on their own PTSD-induced state of total, uncoordinated panic.
Given the circumstances, I dare say Johnson is more than happy to leave Sunak to try to deal with the economic train wreck that's coming just round the corner. When he fails then that will give him somebody else to deflect the blame onto and get rid of the main threat within his own party, all in one go.
The threat of mass unemployment on a scale not seen in almost a century is entirely incidental to the tunnel vision fixation on the virus. They'll keep their fingers crossed for a vaccine at some point next year, and then worry what to do about poverty and destitution on a vast scale afterwards. Now, I will be absolutely thrilled to be proven wrong about all of this, because even if I manage to stay in a job throughout this lengthy, possibly endless, nightmare it's still going to be a truly God-awful time to live through. But given what we know about this Government and the people in and around it, it seems only prudent to assume the worst at every turn.
We will struggle to have mass unemployment on anywhere near the scale I went through in the early 80s. However, it won't be just in the industrial North this time. So this time it matters.
Lawyer says cop shot Jacob Blake after hearing a mother's desperate plea: 'He's got my kid. He's got my keys'
At the time Sheskey opened fire, the lawyer said, Blake held a knife in his hand and twisted his body toward the officer. That action is not visible in the video widely circulating on the internet, in which the view of Blake's body is partially obscured by the driver's side door of the SUV.
Matthews said a second officer at the scene, whom he also represents, provided investigators with a similar account of Blake turning toward Sheskey with a knife in his hand immediately prior to the shooting. That officer said he too would have opened fire but did not have a clear angle, according to the lawyer.
Authorities have said Blake had a knife in his possession and the weapon was found on the floorboard of the vehicle.
I'm not entirely sure how this offers a meaningfully different choice from the current Tories, aside from being a convenient vehicle for the usual mad outrage mongers.
Rather annoying for Farage who is strongly rumoured to be planning to launch a party to fight the culture war.
God help the UK.
Why do we often have to just copy whatever shit the US gets up to.
This will just fuel the division we already seeing.
Trump seems to be struggling this time to really get "build the wall" or "lock her up" type thing going. He seems to be spraying around a number of different random things, Sleepy Joe needs drugs, Harris is a far leftist, vote rigging, but none of it is really sticking.
Trump seems to be struggling this time to really get "build the wall" or "lock her up" type thing going. He seems to be spraying around a number of different random things, Sleepy Joe needs drugs, Harris is a far leftist, vote rigging, but none of it is really sticking.
Yup, also both the Hunter Biden and the Tara Reade attack lines seem to have shrunk without trace.
If GOP in states appoint EC electors who vote for Trump even if their home state has voted Biden, and assuming that delivers Trump the white house, then I really don't see how there isn't massive political violence in America.
This is all quite terrifying, but also from the point of view of Dem GOTV it must be a dream come true. So many people on their side worried that they need to get their votes in early, worried that they need to make sure they get the details right, one day's organizational effort extended over weeks, and the other side has pretty much told itself not to do it.
This may be in Trump's personal interests, as he wants to be able to steal a close election, and avoid ever admitting that he lost a lop-sided one. But it's definitely not in the interests of GOP House and Senate candidates, or GOP candidates in state races.
Every Tory leader I can think of has always gone behind in the polls, normally much quicker than this. Cameron spent virtually the entire 2010-2015 Parliament behind Ed. Thatcher went behind immediately after entering Downing Street in 1979.
There's no point panicking or over-reacting. A Labour lead was inevitable.
Whilst all of that is true you would be hard pushed to find another PM who turned a 26% lead into a 3% loss in 6 months.
Yeah, but a lot of that is down to Labour replacing an unelectable leader with a more plausible one.
And an electable leader being revealed to be an utterly implausible PM.
I don’t think revealed is quite the right word, though?
Well done LAB fans on here for getting excited by the 3% poll lead!
I've ben around longer than most of you and have been LAB in my time - given it's mid term and the CORONA mess LAB need to be 40% clear now to think of any chance of winning GE2024
40% clear? Now there's a thought.
OK LAB were 40% clear in 1995 but that was in normal times. They would need to be 40% clear in today's CORONA shambles as that only equates to 20% clear in normal times like 1990. CON won in 1992.
I don’t think that argument stacks up. If a governing party has presided over a shambles, the more credible proposition is that it won’t get as large as polling swingback as normally happens as an actual election approaches?
Note: Biden only +6 with ABC when minor party candidates are included. But Green not on ballot in some key states - so head to head more relevant at least in these states.
Anyway, 538 has now loaded it and it's moved the overall chance of victory from 77/23 to 77/22/1.
I'm not entirely sure how this offers a meaningfully different choice from the current Tories, aside from being a convenient vehicle for the usual mad outrage mongers.
Rather annoying for Farage who is strongly rumoured to be planning to launch a party to fight the culture war.
God help the UK.
Why do we often have to just copy whatever shit the US gets up to.
This will just fuel the division we already seeing.
When the culture war turns hot I'm ready.
We shall fight in the National Trust car parks, we shall fight on the migrant strewn landing grounds, we shall fight over statchoos and over the Proms, we shall fight on Brendan O'Neill's unfeasably large forehead; we shall never surrender.
A thought experiment. Many of the basic or long-standing legislative features of the U.K. originally came about as a consequence of “temporary” measures in time of war or national crisis. Some possible examples off the top of my head - Income tax (still, officially, a temporary measure!), daylight saving, I think the old pub licensing hours pre Blair reforms.
What changes, if any, in response to coronavirus (possibly yet to come...) do people think might do likewise in the UK?
I'm not entirely sure how this offers a meaningfully different choice from the current Tories, aside from being a convenient vehicle for the usual mad outrage mongers.
Rather annoying for Farage who is strongly rumoured to be planning to launch a party to fight the culture war.
God help the UK.
Why do we often have to just copy whatever shit the US gets up to.
This will just fuel the division we already seeing.
When the culture war turns hot I'm ready.
We shall fight in the National Trust car parks, we shall fight on the migrant strewn landing grounds, we shall fight over statchoos and over the Proms, we shall fight on Brendan O'Neill's unfeasably large forehead; we shall never surrender.
I have nothing to offer you but blood, sweat, white male fragility and a Peter Hitchens column.
A thought experiment. Many of the basic or long-standing legislative features of the U.K. originally came about as a consequence of “temporary” measures in time of war or national crisis. Some possible examples off the top of my head - Income tax (still, officially, a temporary measure!), daylight saving, I think the old pub licensing hours pre Blair reforms.
What changes, if any, in response to coronavirus (possibly yet to come...) do people think might do likewise in the UK?
The wealth tax that is coming along to pay for it all?
A thought experiment. Many of the basic or long-standing legislative features of the U.K. originally came about as a consequence of “temporary” measures in time of war or national crisis. Some possible examples off the top of my head - Income tax (still, officially, a temporary measure!), daylight saving, I think the old pub licensing hours pre Blair reforms.
What changes, if any, in response to coronavirus (possibly yet to come...) do people think might do likewise in the UK?
The wealth tax that is coming along to pay for it all?
That just sends the super wealthy to Monaco and the Bahamas.
Under the cloak of Brexit inflation, stick 5% VAT on currently VAT free goods and 25% on everything else and it will go almost unnoticed.
Mrs Thatcher liked indirect taxation, we all pay and the poorest pay relatively more.
Interesting not just because of how China tracks and traces, but also from frozen food (seafood?) as the source. I recall that being mooted as the cause of the fresh outbreak in NZ.
Interesting not just because of how China tracks and traces, but also from frozen food (seafood?) as the source. I recall that being mooted as the cause of the fresh outbreak in NZ.
That is quite an impressive number. China must be using our "world beating" track and trace system.
A thought experiment. Many of the basic or long-standing legislative features of the U.K. originally came about as a consequence of “temporary” measures in time of war or national crisis. Some possible examples off the top of my head - Income tax (still, officially, a temporary measure!), daylight saving, I think the old pub licensing hours pre Blair reforms.
What changes, if any, in response to coronavirus (possibly yet to come...) do people think might do likewise in the UK?
The wealth tax that is coming along to pay for it all?
That just sends the super wealthy to Monaco and the Bahamas.
Under the cloak of Brexit inflation, stick 5% VAT on currently VAT free goods and 25% on everything else and it will go almost unnoticed.
Mrs Thatcher liked indirect taxation, we all pay and the poorest pay relatively more.
Why not adopt the US system of extraterritorial taxation of citizens?
Interesting not just because of how China tracks and traces, but also from frozen food (seafood?) as the source. I recall that being mooted as the cause of the fresh outbreak in NZ.
That is quite an impressive number. China must be using our "world beating" track and trace system.
Given the number of positive sample taken from frozen items on that ship, without any human carriers, it seems the virus can survive for a long time in very cold conditions? But not for long on surfaces in warm conditions?
A thought experiment. Many of the basic or long-standing legislative features of the U.K. originally came about as a consequence of “temporary” measures in time of war or national crisis. Some possible examples off the top of my head - Income tax (still, officially, a temporary measure!), daylight saving, I think the old pub licensing hours pre Blair reforms.
What changes, if any, in response to coronavirus (possibly yet to come...) do people think might do likewise in the UK?
The wealth tax that is coming along to pay for it all?
That just sends the super wealthy to Monaco and the Bahamas.
Under the cloak of Brexit inflation, stick 5% VAT on currently VAT free goods and 25% on everything else and it will go almost unnoticed.
Mrs Thatcher liked indirect taxation, we all pay and the poorest pay relatively more.
Why not adopt the US system of extraterritorial taxation of citizens?
Renunciation of citizenship? Anyway why penalise one's friends and paymasters?
A thought experiment. Many of the basic or long-standing legislative features of the U.K. originally came about as a consequence of “temporary” measures in time of war or national crisis. Some possible examples off the top of my head - Income tax (still, officially, a temporary measure!), daylight saving, I think the old pub licensing hours pre Blair reforms.
What changes, if any, in response to coronavirus (possibly yet to come...) do people think might do likewise in the UK?
The wealth tax that is coming along to pay for it all?
That just sends the super wealthy to Monaco and the Bahamas.
Under the cloak of Brexit inflation, stick 5% VAT on currently VAT free goods and 25% on everything else and it will go almost unnoticed.
Mrs Thatcher liked indirect taxation, we all pay and the poorest pay relatively more.
Why not adopt the US system of extraterritorial taxation of citizens?
I agree. Although a property tax would catch owners of UK property resident abroad also
Interesting not just because of how China tracks and traces, but also from frozen food (seafood?) as the source. I recall that being mooted as the cause of the fresh outbreak in NZ.
That is quite an impressive number. China must be using our "world beating" track and trace system.
Given the number of positive sample taken from frozen items on that ship, without any human carriers, it seems the virus can survive for a long time in very cold conditions? But not for long on surfaces in warm conditions?
So we enter our forthcoming British winter with foreboding.
A thought experiment. Many of the basic or long-standing legislative features of the U.K. originally came about as a consequence of “temporary” measures in time of war or national crisis. Some possible examples off the top of my head - Income tax (still, officially, a temporary measure!), daylight saving, I think the old pub licensing hours pre Blair reforms.
What changes, if any, in response to coronavirus (possibly yet to come...) do people think might do likewise in the UK?
The wealth tax that is coming along to pay for it all?
That just sends the super wealthy to Monaco and the Bahamas.
Under the cloak of Brexit inflation, stick 5% VAT on currently VAT free goods and 25% on everything else and it will go almost unnoticed.
Mrs Thatcher liked indirect taxation, we all pay and the poorest pay relatively more.
Why not adopt the US system of extraterritorial taxation of citizens?
Absolutely. Monty Python got it right. "To raise money for the exchequer I'd put a tax on all foreigners living abroad"
Would be quite fitting if the licence fee is to be abolished, would be hypocritical if the fee is to be kept.
I would be OK with him being appointed and it being fitting.
Of course, if you wish to destroy the institution. And his apparent utter lack of interest in broadcasting would therefore also be irrelevant.
Sorry off topic hit by accident, was going to say this will be the end of the BBC as a balanced news source, handed over to right wing, brexit ever mates of Johnson, where next? The Supreme Court? How much damage can they do by July 24?
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be fair, that is less of a problem in the context that this started being debated. The conditions for students quarantining in private accommodation off campus is less extreme and less enforceable. It is akin to the self isolation going on in the rest of the country (with people, as a minimum, bending the official rules to go for walks and things without serious prospect of enforcement consequences). Secondly a quarantine period for such students is not an ongoing problem. Covid will sweep through their house and that will be it.
That is very different from the prospect facing students in campus accommodation facing strict, strongly enforced, ongoing rolling quarantines in horrible accommodation, every time a handful of new cases hits their blocks.
Many student “blocks” are private too. What even is the suggestion here? Send only 1st years in university owned student “blocks” home?
If you enforce university to be online only completely, those in private accommodation off campus are still paying for accommodation they don’t need and also don’t want.
If university becomes online only then students can stay in their private accommodation with their friends or return home and live with their parents, their choice.
If it were up to me I would want to give the students the right to get out of the contract if they want to do so, though I'm not sure how that would work.
If university becomes online only then it will become quite clear how overpriced a couple of lectures and tutorials a week are when delivered on zoom.
With university the social life is half of the product.
Republican behaviour over the Supreme Court nomination tells me they know they've lost the Presidency.
What behaviour?
Packing SCOTUS with judges who "owe" Trump for their elevation and were known to be loyal before their appointment. Handy if one plans to contest a Federal election.
Equally i am baffled by people painting scenarios of full lockdown 2.0 until next Spring. Seems to be little rationale for that either (even if, as currently seems unlikely) the Government has any appetite for instigating another mandated shutdown of the economy. As opposed to a Sweden style (in this aspect at least) "defacto " "shutdown" which reduces economic activity through personal risk decisions, but leaves a pool of (mainly younger) people content to continue going out, socialising and shopping. "Lockdowns" of whatever stripe, are not likely to require lasting anything like that long before numbers begin to turn back in favour. There will be a large enough percentage of the population keeping themselves safe enough regardless of Govt diktat.
Given the circumstances, I dare say Johnson is more than happy to leave Sunak to try to deal with the economic train wreck that's coming just round the corner. When he fails then that will give him somebody else to deflect the blame onto and get rid of the main threat within his own party, all in one go.
Which may be why he wasn't on the green benches when Sunak made his statement this week....
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be fair, that is less of a problem in the context that this started being debated. The conditions for students quarantining in private accommodation off campus is less extreme and less enforceable. It is akin to the self isolation going on in the rest of the country (with people, as a minimum, bending the official rules to go for walks and things without serious prospect of enforcement consequences). Secondly a quarantine period for such students is not an ongoing problem. Covid will sweep through their house and that will be it.
That is very different from the prospect facing students in campus accommodation facing strict, strongly enforced, ongoing rolling quarantines in horrible accommodation, every time a handful of new cases hits their blocks.
Many student “blocks” are private too. What even is the suggestion here? Send only 1st years in university owned student “blocks” home?
If you enforce university to be online only completely, those in private accommodation off campus are still paying for accommodation they don’t need and also don’t want.
If university becomes online only then students can stay in their private accommodation with their friends or return home and live with their parents, their choice.
If it were up to me I would want to give the students the right to get out of the contract if they want to do so, though I'm not sure how that would work.
If university becomes online only then it will become quite clear how overpriced a couple of lectures and tutorials a week are when delivered on zoom.
With university the social life is half 90% of the product.
Fixed that for you.
This talk about students not being allowed home for Christmas is pretty harsh. If they were thinking of imposing that then it needed to be made clear to them weeks ago. It's unfair to get them to sign up to a load of debt and then telling them.
Biden won the nomination largely flying under the radar. It seems he’s using the same approach for the election. It seems he’s supported by some clever people.
Would be quite fitting if the licence fee is to be abolished, would be hypocritical if the fee is to be kept.
I would be OK with him being appointed and it being fitting.
Of course, if you wish to destroy the institution. And his apparent utter lack of interest in broadcasting would therefore also be irrelevant.
I think Philip is generally pretty clear that he judges Govt actions against their likelihood of delivering his own personal favoured outcomes. The fact that Govt actions may not actually deliver outcomes aligned with the preferred outcomes of significant numbers of the Conservative electoral support base and/or the Govt’s public pronouncements on its own intended/expected outcomes does not concern him (see, for example, Govt actions likely to increase chances of independent Scotland/United Ireland)
Biden won the nomination largely flying under the radar. It seems he’s using the same approach for the election. It seems he’s supported by some clever people.
He seemed to be going down badly early on though people being talked to in the Iowa caucuses for instance had a definite aire of 'I'm going for Buttigieg / Klobuchar because we know Biden will be fine so he doesn't need our support'.
Was never really much anti-Biden stuff in the early Dem camp aside from some Bernie bros. Then the south was hit and Biden finally got the lorry loads of votes he was expected to get from day 1.
Interesting not just because of how China tracks and traces, but also from frozen food (seafood?) as the source. I recall that being mooted as the cause of the fresh outbreak in NZ.
That is quite an impressive number. China must be using our "world beating" track and trace system.
They use pooled testing which speeds up the processing of mass testing like this considerably.
A thought experiment. Many of the basic or long-standing legislative features of the U.K. originally came about as a consequence of “temporary” measures in time of war or national crisis. Some possible examples off the top of my head - Income tax (still, officially, a temporary measure!), daylight saving, I think the old pub licensing hours pre Blair reforms.
What changes, if any, in response to coronavirus (possibly yet to come...) do people think might do likewise in the UK?
The wealth tax that is coming along to pay for it all?
That just sends the super wealthy to Monaco and the Bahamas.
Under the cloak of Brexit inflation, stick 5% VAT on currently VAT free goods and 25% on everything else and it will go almost unnoticed.
Mrs Thatcher liked indirect taxation, we all pay and the poorest pay relatively more.
Why not adopt the US system of extraterritorial taxation of citizens?
Renunciation of citizenship? Anyway why penalise one's friends and paymasters?
Who would give up citizenship of this beautiful country to save a bit of money? I am sure that no wealthy Tory and Brexit donors would be so unpatriotic.
Republican behaviour over the Supreme Court nomination tells me they know they've lost the Presidency.
What behaviour?
Packing SCOTUS with judges who "owe" Trump for their elevation and were known to be loyal before their appointment. Handy if one plans to contest a Federal election.
That was predictable. What’s notable is the desire to rush it through before the election.
A thought experiment. Many of the basic or long-standing legislative features of the U.K. originally came about as a consequence of “temporary” measures in time of war or national crisis. Some possible examples off the top of my head - Income tax (still, officially, a temporary measure!), daylight saving, I think the old pub licensing hours pre Blair reforms.
What changes, if any, in response to coronavirus (possibly yet to come...) do people think might do likewise in the UK?
The wealth tax that is coming along to pay for it all?
That just sends the super wealthy to Monaco and the Bahamas.
Under the cloak of Brexit inflation, stick 5% VAT on currently VAT free goods and 25% on everything else and it will go almost unnoticed.
Mrs Thatcher liked indirect taxation, we all pay and the poorest pay relatively more.
Why not adopt the US system of extraterritorial taxation of citizens?
Renunciation of citizenship? Anyway why penalise one's friends and paymasters?
Who would give up citizenship of this beautiful country to save a bit of money? I am sure that no wealthy Tory and Brexit donors would be so unpatriotic.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be fair, that is less of a problem in the context that this started being debated. The conditions for students quarantining in private accommodation off campus is less extreme and less enforceable. It is akin to the self isolation going on in the rest of the country (with people, as a minimum, bending the official rules to go for walks and things without serious prospect of enforcement consequences). Secondly a quarantine period for such students is not an ongoing problem. Covid will sweep through their house and that will be it.
That is very different from the prospect facing students in campus accommodation facing strict, strongly enforced, ongoing rolling quarantines in horrible accommodation, every time a handful of new cases hits their blocks.
Many student “blocks” are private too. What even is the suggestion here? Send only 1st years in university owned student “blocks” home?
If you enforce university to be online only completely, those in private accommodation off campus are still paying for accommodation they don’t need and also don’t want.
If university becomes online only then students can stay in their private accommodation with their friends or return home and live with their parents, their choice.
If it were up to me I would want to give the students the right to get out of the contract if they want to do so, though I'm not sure how that would work.
If university becomes online only then it will become quite clear how overpriced a couple of lectures and tutorials a week are when delivered on zoom.
With university the social life is half 90% of the product.
Fixed that for you.
This talk about students not being allowed home for Christmas is pretty harsh. If they were thinking of imposing that then it needed to be made clear to them weeks ago. It's unfair to get them to sign up to a load of debt and then telling them.
On 5 live this morning two Manchester students rang in to say how they were isolating in their rooms but that a minority of fellow students were out of control knocking on doors and asking if they would come out and they would give them covid. They were so intimidated that they phoned security who refused to attend and then they phoned the police
A University union leader was interviewed who condemned the students behaviour but demanded that the rents and fees for this year were paid for by HMG. The University said they were putting in place safeguarding measures
There is a simple answer to this and it is not for HMG to shell out even more of taxpayers money but to identify the minority who are spoiling it for the majority and just expel them
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be fair, that is less of a problem in the context that this started being debated. The conditions for students quarantining in private accommodation off campus is less extreme and less enforceable. It is akin to the self isolation going on in the rest of the country (with people, as a minimum, bending the official rules to go for walks and things without serious prospect of enforcement consequences). Secondly a quarantine period for such students is not an ongoing problem. Covid will sweep through their house and that will be it.
That is very different from the prospect facing students in campus accommodation facing strict, strongly enforced, ongoing rolling quarantines in horrible accommodation, every time a handful of new cases hits their blocks.
Many student “blocks” are private too. What even is the suggestion here? Send only 1st years in university owned student “blocks” home?
If you enforce university to be online only completely, those in private accommodation off campus are still paying for accommodation they don’t need and also don’t want.
If university becomes online only then students can stay in their private accommodation with their friends or return home and live with their parents, their choice.
If it were up to me I would want to give the students the right to get out of the contract if they want to do so, though I'm not sure how that would work.
If university becomes online only then it will become quite clear how overpriced a couple of lectures and tutorials a week are when delivered on zoom.
With university the social life is half 90% of the product.
Fixed that for you.
This talk about students not being allowed home for Christmas is pretty harsh. If they were thinking of imposing that then it needed to be made clear to them weeks ago. It's unfair to get them to sign up to a load of debt and then telling them.
It’s not just the (non academic) social life. A massive part of the academic benefits come from interaction with one’s peers on courses, the ability to discuss and debate ideas together, to meet shared course based challenges together, on what, for many, will be completely new ways of learning and study. It obviously varies between courses, but in principle, university is not supposed to be a continuation from school in that respect (where the focus is primarily on learning existing material with known and defined answers, and less on giving expression and challenge to one’s own thought, ideas and opinions). Can’t do that stuck at home on zoom.
A thought experiment. Many of the basic or long-standing legislative features of the U.K. originally came about as a consequence of “temporary” measures in time of war or national crisis. Some possible examples off the top of my head - Income tax (still, officially, a temporary measure!), daylight saving, I think the old pub licensing hours pre Blair reforms.
What changes, if any, in response to coronavirus (possibly yet to come...) do people think might do likewise in the UK?
The wealth tax that is coming along to pay for it all?
That just sends the super wealthy to Monaco and the Bahamas.
Under the cloak of Brexit inflation, stick 5% VAT on currently VAT free goods and 25% on everything else and it will go almost unnoticed.
Mrs Thatcher liked indirect taxation, we all pay and the poorest pay relatively more.
Why not adopt the US system of extraterritorial taxation of citizens?
While obviously there are many who have been financially scuppered by the virus, there are others that have done very well.
We need an effective tax on the freeloaders of Internet commerce and offshore wealth.
I suspect the reality is that everything will be "paid for" by money printing and resulting inflation, camouflaged by generalised deflation and other countries doing the same.
Republican behaviour over the Supreme Court nomination tells me they know they've lost the Presidency.
Yes, I think they accept that not only is the Presidency a goner but they could easily find themselves a minority in Senate. They are going therefore for the consolation of a super-majority in the Supreme Court. Polling suggests this is not a popular move and will cost votes but they obviously think it's worth the sacrifice.
I don't think Biden needs to be too worried about this. Not all conservatve judges are lickspittles and as long as they are seen to be supporting justice in preference to Party there will be no need for Biden to interfere. If however they obstruct the manifest will of the people in a political kind of way, he can always appoint a couple of extra judges. Two would do it, as Roberts seems independent minded anyway. Biden would need popular support as well as a Senate majority to achieve this but if we are talking about the likes of Roe v Wade being overturned, he's likely to have both.
As for Trump, talk of him disregarding the election result is wild. All he's trying to do is muddy the waters so as to minimise the pain of defeat and if possible ensure that he is not prosecuted when he leaves office. He's just trying to bolster his negotiating position in anticipation of this.
As for the GoP, once shorn of its Trumpite wing it should return to its more normal role as the safeguard of traditional US values. This means foregoing Trump votes and dropping well behind the Democrats in the popular vote, but Biden is going to have a tough gig in office clearing up all Trump's shit. He'll probably lose popular support through his first term and may not want to do a second. Harris would not be a shoo-in for the Presidency in that event, so the (traditional) GoP would have a decent shot at regaining both Senate and the WhiteHouse.
That's how it seems to me this Sunday Morning. OK, crystal ball away now. Dog needs a walk and I have to be back in time for the start of play at Lord's. Have a good day everyone.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be fair, that is less of a problem in the context that this started being debated. The conditions for students quarantining in private accommodation off campus is less extreme and less enforceable. It is akin to the self isolation going on in the rest of the country (with people, as a minimum, bending the official rules to go for walks and things without serious prospect of enforcement consequences). Secondly a quarantine period for such students is not an ongoing problem. Covid will sweep through their house and that will be it.
That is very different from the prospect facing students in campus accommodation facing strict, strongly enforced, ongoing rolling quarantines in horrible accommodation, every time a handful of new cases hits their blocks.
Many student “blocks” are private too. What even is the suggestion here? Send only 1st years in university owned student “blocks” home?
If you enforce university to be online only completely, those in private accommodation off campus are still paying for accommodation they don’t need and also don’t want.
If university becomes online only then students can stay in their private accommodation with their friends or return home and live with their parents, their choice.
If it were up to me I would want to give the students the right to get out of the contract if they want to do so, though I'm not sure how that would work.
If university becomes online only then it will become quite clear how overpriced a couple of lectures and tutorials a week are when delivered on zoom.
With university the social life is half 90% of the product.
Fixed that for you.
This talk about students not being allowed home for Christmas is pretty harsh. If they were thinking of imposing that then it needed to be made clear to them weeks ago. It's unfair to get them to sign up to a load of debt and then telling them.
It’s not just the (non academic) social life. A massive part of the academic benefits come from interaction with one’s peers on courses, the ability to discuss and debate ideas together, to meet shared course based challenges together, on what, for many, will be completely new ways of learning and study. It obviously varies between courses, but in principle, university is not supposed to be a continuation from school in that respect (where the focus is primarily on learning existing material with known and defined answers, and less on giving expression and challenge to one’s own thought, ideas and opinions). Can’t do that stuck at home on zoom.
I agree, even though much of it is informal discussion, revision, even copying of notes, university is a collective learning experience, not solely an individual one. A symposium is "drinking together" an informal discussion.
Sure, there is time for baccanalia too, but that needs to be restrained, while the educational parts of the collective experience are retained. It is a difficult balance for the universities.
Republican behaviour over the Supreme Court nomination tells me they know they've lost the Presidency.
Yes, I think they accept that not only is the Presidency a goner but they could easily find themselves a minority in Senate. They are going therefore for the consolation of a super-majority in the Supreme Court. Polling suggests this is not a popular move and will cost votes but they obviously think it's worth the sacrifice.
I don't think Biden needs to be too worried about this. Not all conservatve judges are lickspittles and as long as they are seen to be supporting justice in preference to Party there will be no need for Biden to interfere. If however they obstruct the manifest will of the people in a political kind of way, he can always appoint a couple of extra judges. Two would do it, as Roberts seems independent minded anyway. Biden would need popular support as well as a Senate majority to achieve this but if we are talking about the likes of Roe v Wade being overturned, he's likely to have both.
Don't need Roe vs Wade. There is the repeal of the Affordable Care Act. In court right now and scheduled to take place just after the election (nt before because the GOP are cowards).
If they seat ACB pre election and then repeal the ACA (ACB has previously said she believes it to be unconstitutional) after Trump has lost the election that is all the justification the Dems will need to go full throttle. If the GOP have the chutzpath to confirm and seat ACB in the lame duck session and repeal the ACA then all bets are off as to the counter moves from the Dems.
Comments
That is very different from the prospect facing students in campus accommodation facing strict, strongly enforced, ongoing rolling quarantines in horrible accommodation, every time a handful of new cases hits their blocks.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/sep/26/pm-offers-top-media-body-jobs-to-critics-of-bbc-say-reports
... One veteran British broadcaster pointed out that Moore has not only refused to buy a television licence, but has boasted in the past that he does not watch television. “He is a journalist with no knowledge of running any institution and zero interest in broadcasting.”...
And then there's the Great Ponzi Scheme (i.e. the state pension) to be considered. Never mind some of the ideas that have been recently mooted to soak the middle aged in order to set up a novel fund to deal with the elderly care problem. Tens, ultimately hundreds, of billions a year in future expenditure can be saved by junking the triple lock. Or, alternatively, if that's too much of a PR problem for Starmer to stomach, then he could circumvent it by clawing back more pensioner income in tax. The exact mechanism - whether that's done, for example, by imposing a new care levy on the old, or by making them pay national insurance - doesn't much matter. The principle is that the gradual squeezing to death of a shrinking population of working people to keep codgers minted must be stopped, or else everything will eventually fall apart.
If you enforce university to be online only completely, those in private accommodation off campus are still paying for accommodation they don’t need and also don’t want.
https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/voting-intention-23rd-september/
You may, of course, be right that attitudes will change. But that's been predicted ever since March, and they haven't so far.
He is a healthy 19yr old, best to front it out. We have returned schools and Universities and need to stick with it. Constant U turns and absent leadership is not what we need.
It is true some students have behaved like...well students, but I can't help feeling they are all being scapegoated to deflect from someone else's shortcomings.
Which is why the rich men in the Commons & Lords spent so much on Bazalgette's drains. Because the what kills the poor today will be killing you at breakfast tomorrow....
I would be OK with him being appointed and it being fitting.
If it were up to me I would want to give the students the right to get out of the contract if they want to do so, though I'm not sure how that would work.
Appointing Dacre and Moore to adjudicate on the mainstream broadcast media is not disimilar to Trump appointing Kavanagh and Gorsuch to adjudicate on Election 2020.
Campus accommodation in large halls of residence is a massive problem if Universities/Govt are going to persist in the approach they appear to be currently taking. And no i don't think sending everyone home is a realistic solution. Ideally you would say the solution is some sort of "campus quarantine" to allow students to mix freely, but strongly discourage/prevent mixing with outside parties. How feasible that it though - probably not much.
Although why people are still talking about what happens "at Christmas" baffles me. The problem to be solved is now and in the coming few weeks and months. It seems to me to be unlikely to be a problem to anything like the same extent come Christmas.
Equally i am baffled by people painting scenarios of full lockdown 2.0 until next Spring. Seems to be little rationale for that either (even if, as currently seems unlikely) the Government has any appetite for instigating another mandated shutdown of the economy. As opposed to a Sweden style (in this aspect at least) "defacto " "shutdown" which reduces economic activity through personal risk decisions, but leaves a pool of (mainly younger) people content to continue going out, socialising and shopping. "Lockdowns" of whatever stripe, are not likely to require lasting anything like that long before numbers begin to turn back in favour. There will be a large enough percentage of the population keeping themselves safe enough regardless of Govt diktat.
The issue is that the unintended consequences of the former is that it will result in so many defaults, the courts will be completely blocked up with housing cases and students will get county court judgments in their thousands. All because someone in the government made the wrong decision (or worse, no decision) on what the plan was for university education this September.
Johnson has probably never properly recovered from his brush with death, his scientific advisers are deeply fearful of a fresh tsunami of hospital cases and seem likely to advocate the most radical measures possible to ensure its prevention, at (literally) all cost, and I'm quite sure that Hancock cares for nothing but making sure that the hospitals are kept half-empty, rather than there being any further news broadcasts from ICUs stuffed with ventilator cases. Hence my suspicion that the only reason we're not already in lockdown is that the Government wants to give the extra measures taken to combat the disease long enough to fail, and to be seen to fail (and they will fail, if the criterion is that cases somehow start going steadily downwards again into the teeth of the Autumn, with the schools now back and several million students returning to campuses,) so that they can then try to pin lockdown on the public for being insufficiently obedient to their interventions, rather than on their own PTSD-induced state of total, uncoordinated panic.
Given the circumstances, I dare say Johnson is more than happy to leave Sunak to try to deal with the economic train wreck that's coming just round the corner. When he fails then that will give him somebody else to deflect the blame onto and get rid of the main threat within his own party, all in one go.
The threat of mass unemployment on a scale not seen in almost a century is entirely incidental to the tunnel vision fixation on the virus. They'll keep their fingers crossed for a vaccine at some point next year, and then worry what to do about poverty and destitution on a vast scale afterwards. Now, I will be absolutely thrilled to be proven wrong about all of this, because even if I manage to stay in a job throughout this lengthy, possibly endless, nightmare it's still going to be a truly God-awful time to live through. But given what we know about this Government and the people in and around it, it seems only prudent to assume the worst at every turn.
Many of them Tory voters.
So this time it matters.
At the time Sheskey opened fire, the lawyer said, Blake held a knife in his hand and twisted his body toward the officer. That action is not visible in the video widely circulating on the internet, in which the view of Blake's body is partially obscured by the driver's side door of the SUV.
Matthews said a second officer at the scene, whom he also represents, provided investigators with a similar account of Blake turning toward Sheskey with a knife in his hand immediately prior to the shooting. That officer said he too would have opened fire but did not have a clear angle, according to the lawyer.
Authorities have said Blake had a knife in his possession and the weapon was found on the floorboard of the vehicle.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/25/us/rusten-sheskey-account-jacob-blake-shooting-invs/index.html
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1310013447485227008?s=21
This may be in Trump's personal interests, as he wants to be able to steal a close election, and avoid ever admitting that he lost a lop-sided one. But it's definitely not in the interests of GOP House and Senate candidates, or GOP candidates in state races.
Biden 54
Trump 44
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/economy-coronavirus-pandemic-biden-advantage-nationally-poll/story?id=73252425&cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_hero_hed
Well done Sir Keir. A long way to go though.
Anyway, 538 has now loaded it and it's moved the overall chance of victory from 77/23 to 77/22/1.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/
What changes, if any, in response to coronavirus (possibly yet to come...) do people think might do likewise in the UK?
Under the cloak of Brexit inflation, stick 5% VAT on currently VAT free goods and 25% on everything else and it will go almost unnoticed.
Mrs Thatcher liked indirect taxation, we all pay and the poorest pay relatively more.
Interesting not just because of how China tracks and traces, but also from frozen food (seafood?) as the source. I recall that being mooted as the cause of the fresh outbreak in NZ.
And his apparent utter lack of interest in broadcasting would therefore also be irrelevant.
UK scientists begin study of how long Covid can survive in the air
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/25/uk-scientists-begin-study-of-how-long-covid-can-survive-in-the-air
With university the social life is half of the product.
This talk about students not being allowed home for Christmas is pretty harsh. If they were thinking of imposing that then it needed to be made clear to them weeks ago. It's unfair to get them to sign up to a load of debt and then telling them.
(Since Biden +5 Ohio by Fox on the 23rd)
FDR went to Yalta, right?
Was never really much anti-Biden stuff in the early Dem camp aside from some Bernie bros.
Then the south was hit and Biden finally got the lorry loads of votes he was expected to get from day 1.
What followed for Clinton was a peak and a fall.
Clinton's peak (+7.1%) was approximately what Biden is polling now. His polling has been very consistent in comparison.
Less coverage with the dog bites man poll, Tories still going backwards in this one though.
A University union leader was interviewed who condemned the students behaviour but demanded that the rents and fees for this year were paid for by HMG. The University said they were putting in place safeguarding measures
There is a simple answer to this and it is not for HMG to shell out even more of taxpayers money but to identify the minority who are spoiling it for the majority and just expel them
We need an effective tax on the freeloaders of Internet commerce and offshore wealth.
I suspect the reality is that everything will be "paid for" by money printing and resulting inflation, camouflaged by generalised deflation and other countries doing the same.
I don't think Biden needs to be too worried about this. Not all conservatve judges are lickspittles and as long as they are seen to be supporting justice in preference to Party there will be no need for Biden to interfere. If however they obstruct the manifest will of the people in a political kind of way, he can always appoint a couple of extra judges. Two would do it, as Roberts seems independent minded anyway. Biden would need popular support as well as a Senate majority to achieve this but if we are talking about the likes of Roe v Wade being overturned, he's likely to have both.
As for Trump, talk of him disregarding the election result is wild. All he's trying to do is muddy the waters so as to minimise the pain of defeat and if possible ensure that he is not prosecuted when he leaves office. He's just trying to bolster his negotiating position in anticipation of this.
As for the GoP, once shorn of its Trumpite wing it should return to its more normal role as the safeguard of traditional US values. This means foregoing Trump votes and dropping well behind the Democrats in the popular vote, but Biden is going to have a tough gig in office clearing up all Trump's shit. He'll probably lose popular support through his first term and may not want to do a second. Harris would not be a shoo-in for the Presidency in that event, so the (traditional) GoP would have a decent shot at regaining both Senate and the WhiteHouse.
That's how it seems to me this Sunday Morning. OK, crystal ball away now. Dog needs a walk and I have to be back in time for the start of play at Lord's. Have a good day everyone.
So in reality Cons. standing reasonably firm for the moment. I do believe we could be out of MoE territory by early 2021.
Sure, there is time for baccanalia too, but that needs to be restrained, while the educational parts of the collective experience are retained. It is a difficult balance for the universities.
If they seat ACB pre election and then repeal the ACA (ACB has previously said she believes it to be unconstitutional) after Trump has lost the election that is all the justification the Dems will need to go full throttle. If the GOP have the chutzpath to confirm and seat ACB in the lame duck session and repeal the ACA then all bets are off as to the counter moves from the Dems.