Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
The Guardian and friends are going to be packed with stories about the two for weeks. It will make the bucket of shit tipped over Toby No-Mates look like nothing.
Which is fair enough - free speech still allowed in this country, I believe?
What possibly could be the objection to sexist, climate change denying, license fee refusenik Lord Snooty as next BBC chairperson ?
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
The Guardian and friends are going to be packed with stories about the two for weeks. It will make the bucket of shit tipped over Toby No-Mates look like nothing.
Which is fair enough - free speech still allowed in this country, I believe?
What possibly could be the objection to sexist, climate change denying, license fee refusenik Lord Snooty as next BBC chairperson ?
At least we won't be stuck with an unelected elite in charge.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
I think that the smart first year students got places at their hometown uni and still have their mothers doing their laundry and making their tea.
Fox jr 2 was wise to go for flatshare with a mate rather than halls.
They all knew that a lot would be online, and lockdowns likely, they are intelligent young people. But what is the alternative? Sit on the sofa at home for a year, no travel or jobs? And will it be better next year? Better to keep going.
My initial thought is Lawrence Fox will get plenty of air time on GB News where he can puff up his one-man band. It'll be interesting to see if he puts up candidates for the elections next May - £1 million won't get him that far.
Other things - Labour ahead in the polls, I almost fell off my chair in excitement (he lied). Still, it's probably more than Starmer could have hoped at this stage but it's a marathon not a milky way.
The Liberal Democrat Conference is a curious beast though the Liberal Party Assemblies were even more so. The debate on UBI is interesting - the Party is committed only to looking at the policy in more detail which is fair enough. As for decriminalisation of drugs, this has been on the table for the last 30 years at least.
At a time when we are openly debating the inability of law enforcement to enforce some laws, it's a valid question to ask if a law for which there seems to be little deterrence in terms of being prosecuted is worth having as a law at all. You can argue most laws only function with consent but if enough don't provide that consent, at what point does the law itself become meaningless?
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
One sympathises with the sentiment, but blaming the Tories for locking up students doesn't explain what's happening in Scotland.
This is a collective failure borne of oversight by Government, and desperation by the universities themselves. It's arguable that the large majority of students could've been told to stay at home and taught remotely - basically all of them except the ones with a substantial hands-on element to their studies (e.g. medical and chemistry students,) and those who have nowhere else safe to live. However, that would've required forethought from ministers, and for the embattled institutions themselves to forfeit a fortune in rents that most of them apart from Oxford and Cambridge can likely ill-afford.
Hence the mess the students find themselves in. The universities wanted the money and neither the central nor the devolved administrations sought to intervene.
The Guardian and friends are going to be packed with stories about the two for weeks. It will make the bucket of shit tipped over Toby No-Mates look like nothing.
Which is fair enough - free speech still allowed in this country, I believe?
What possibly could be the objection to sexist, climate change denying, license fee refusenik Lord Snooty as next BBC chairperson ?
At least we won't be stuck with an unelected elite in charge.
I guess Blair was right, tacking towards the centre is the way to electoral success.
I was wrong - I am happy to admit that
See, that's very true. But, Starmer is still quite strongly on the left flank economically. What he's realised is that the British public have tacked quite strongly to the left on economic issues since 2008, but have moved away from liberalism a bit. Not to the extent that the madder Tories have done, but they're mostly fed up of culture wars and disliked Corbyn (and his shadow cabinet) based on those issues. Steal the cloak of patriotism, look competent and espouse social democratic economic policy and you might end up with something that looks and sounds like Clem Atlee. If you squint.
I think that's a good analysis. I think how he handles the EHRC report (which must surely be due?) will be important too.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
I think students have been misled by their universities, who should have set expectations at the very least that normal student life isn't possible right now. However:
A large number of the cases at the moment are amongst students. Whatever it is that at least some students were doing, they need to stop doing it.
If you have tested positive you quarantine to stop further spread. Them's the No Shit rules everyone should be following
We're in an epidemic. No-one else is socialising. Students don't get a pass on this.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
One sympathises with the sentiment, but blaming the Tories for locking up students doesn't explain what's happening in Scotland.
This is a collective failure borne of oversight by Government, and desperation by the universities themselves. It's arguable that the large majority of students could've been told to stay at home and taught remotely - basically all of them except the ones with a substantial hands-on element to their studies (e.g. medical and chemistry students,) and those who have nowhere else safe to live. However, that would've required forethought from ministers, and for the embattled institutions themselves to forfeit a fortune in rents that most of them apart from Oxford and Cambridge can likely ill-afford.
Hence the mess the students find themselves in. The universities wanted the money and neither the central nor the devolved administrations sought to intervene.
If the universities misrepresented to students the need for them to be there or about the courses not being 100% online before rents were paid, then the students might well have a claim for damages for misrepresentation.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
I think students have been misled by their universities, who should have set expectations at the very least that normal student life isn't possible right now. However:
A large number of the cases at the moment are amongst students. Whatever it is that at least some students were doing, they need to stop doing it.
If you have tested positive you quarantine to stop further spread. Them's the No Shit rules everyone should be following
We're in an epidemic. No-one else is socialising. Students don't get a pass on this.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
One sympathises with the sentiment, but blaming the Tories for locking up students doesn't explain what's happening in Scotland.
This is a collective failure borne of oversight by Government, and desperation by the universities themselves. It's arguable that the large majority of students could've been told to stay at home and taught remotely - basically all of them except the ones with a substantial hands-on element to their studies (e.g. medical and chemistry students,) and those who have nowhere else safe to live. However, that would've required forethought from ministers, and for the embattled institutions themselves to forfeit a fortune in rents that most of them apart from Oxford and Cambridge can likely ill-afford.
Hence the mess the students find themselves in. The universities wanted the money and neither the central nor the devolved administrations sought to intervene.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
I think students have been misled by their universities, who should have set expectations at the very least that normal student life isn't possible right now. However:
A large number of the cases at the moment are amongst students. Whatever it is that at least some students were doing, they need to stop doing it.
If you have tested positive you quarantine to stop further spread. Them's the No Shit rules everyone should be following
We're in an epidemic. No-one else is socialising. Students don't get a pass on this.
Well that's not true. Of course most of us are able to do it with friends and family. And students are getting caught up in this regardless of how careful they are or following the rules. The quarantine rules apply whether they are affected themselves or have been unfortunate enough to get caught up in a university defined bubble with somebody who has. And in the larger bubbles this isn't a one off but will repeat over and over again.
I'm not entirely sure how this offers a meaningfully different choice from the current Tories, aside from being a convenient vehicle for the usual mad outrage mongers.
Rather annoying for Farage who is strongly rumoured to be planning to launch a party to fight the culture war.
God help the UK.
Why do we often have to just copy whatever shit the US gets up to.
This will just fuel the division we already seeing.
Normally this opinion poll would be exactly what one would expect in the normal rhythm of politics, and it would mean absolutely zilch this far away from a general election. However, the natives on the Tory backbenches are a bit restless, noticeably so given we are only 9 months into this government's rule. That's because quite a lot recognise, if they are honest with themselves, that Boris is simply not up to the job of PM. He's been dealt a weak hand, but has played it particularly badly. If Labour leads for a couple of months, or increases its lead, that restlessness will only increase. So, I reckon this poll counts for a bit more than it normally would - something, rather than absolutely zilch.
I have for a few weeks predicted Boris would be out in the first 6 months of 2021
He just is not cutting it and Cummings, Williamson and his IMB have all been a disaster
He has lost his authority and does not look well
Time to go and spend it with Carrie and his little one and write columns for newspapers
The article seems to think people will revolt over the increased restrictions - but the Opinium poll shows overwhwlming support for them, and a preference for them being tougher.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
I think students have been misled by their universities, who should have set expectations at the very least that normal student life isn't possible right now. However:
A large number of the cases at the moment are amongst students. Whatever it is that at least some students were doing, they need to stop doing it.
If you have tested positive you quarantine to stop further spread. Them's the No Shit rules everyone should be following
We're in an epidemic. No-one else is socialising. Students don't get a pass on this.
My son is a fresher at Hull Uni. He was most certainly not misled about what student life would be like in the pandemic. I expect other universities were equally honest.
Your other points are absolutely correct. I'm afraid many students have behaved like absolute idiots and totally ignored government guidance on Covid.
I'm not entirely sure how this offers a meaningfully different choice from the current Tories, aside from being a convenient vehicle for the usual mad outrage mongers.
Rather annoying for Farage who is strongly rumoured to be planning to launch a party to fight the culture war.
God help the UK.
Why do we often have to just copy whatever shit the US gets up to.
This will just fuel the division we already seeing.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I think that the smart first year students got places at their hometown uni and still have their mothers doing their laundry and making their tea.
Fox jr 2 was wise to go for flatshare with a mate rather than halls.
They all knew that a lot would be online, and lockdowns likely, they are intelligent young people. But what is the alternative? Sit on the sofa at home for a year, no travel or jobs? And will it be better next year? Better to keep going.
I think i will still try and give a luxury stay in the ICU a miss if possible.
Normally this opinion poll would be exactly what one would expect in the normal rhythm of politics, and it would mean absolutely zilch this far away from a general election. However, the natives on the Tory backbenches are a bit restless, noticeably so given we are only 9 months into this government's rule. That's because quite a lot recognise, if they are honest with themselves, that Boris is simply not up to the job of PM. He's been dealt a weak hand, but has played it particularly badly. If Labour leads for a couple of months, or increases its lead, that restlessness will only increase. So, I reckon this poll counts for a bit more than it normally would - something, rather than absolutely zilch.
I have for a few weeks predicted Boris would be out in the first 6 months of 2021
He just is not cutting it and Cummings, Williamson and his IMB have all been a disaster
He has lost his authority and does not look well
Time to go and spend it with Carrie and his little one and write columns for newspapers
The article seems to think people will revolt over the increased restrictions - but the Opinium poll shows overwhwlming support for them, and a preference for them being tougher.
Yes but it is the express which on the right of politics
And the award for lack of self awareness goes to....
How liberals made the world nuts: They used to champion freedom and tolerance - and PIERS MORGAN has always been proud to be one. So how, he asks in his new book, have liberals become a shrieking mob hell-bent on silencing all dissent?
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
What a load of nonsense.
Young people do not support themselves being locked up at university and not being allowed to go home - do you know who does? 65+. Poll out today showed that.
It's all very well saying it's supported by the population at large, the idea of isolation but most aren't following (something pathetic like 20% were following it) and they don't have Uni staff outside their flats patrolling them, so they can't leave.
You're making a completely invalid comparison and you're wrong.
And the Scottish Government has got it wrong too. No problems with saying that.
It's an absolute disgrace - my point is that the young don't vote. And because they don't vote they get ignored.
In England they don't vote Tory and since the Tories tell us they are a Government for all of the UK, them ignoring this entirely makes them culpable. They should put pressure on the Scot Gov if they think it's the wrong course of action.
I am getting very angry with your constant attitude towards young people quite frankly.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
Your party enforced them going back (in England). They could have told them to stay at home but just like their policy on office working, they flip flopped.
I am afraid on this particular issue, you are naive.
Which students have been irresponsible? Some examples? What have they done?
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
I think students have been misled by their universities, who should have set expectations at the very least that normal student life isn't possible right now. However:
A large number of the cases at the moment are amongst students. Whatever it is that at least some students were doing, they need to stop doing it.
If you have tested positive you quarantine to stop further spread. Them's the No Shit rules everyone should be following
We're in an epidemic. No-one else is socialising. Students don't get a pass on this.
My son is a fresher at Hull Uni. He was most certainly not misled about what student life would be like in the pandemic. I expect other universities were equally honest.
Your other points are absolutely correct. I'm afraid many students have behaved like absolute idiots and totally ignored government guidance on Covid.
What parentage of students have ignored Government advice and can you give examples?
Or it a tiny percentage like the rest of the population?
At the end of the day, they were told to go back to Uni. I think that was a mistake.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
They already do. The Scottish government pays the fees on behalf of Scottish students.
I expect this video of Barrett opining about the propriety of controversially appointing Supreme Court justices in an election year is going to get a fair amount of play: https://twitter.com/jsatz23/status/1309853401295982592
No doubt a lawyer as accomplished as she will be able further to distinguish the cases...
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
What a load of nonsense.
Young people do not support themselves being locked up at university and not being allowed to go home - do you know who does? 65+. Poll out today showed that.
It's all very well saying it's supported by the population at large, the idea of isolation but most aren't following (something pathetic like 20% were following it) and they don't have Uni staff outside their flats patrolling them, so they can't leave.
You're making a completely invalid comparison and you're wrong.
And the Scottish Government has got it wrong too. No problems with saying that.
It's an absolute disgrace - my point is that the young don't vote. And because they don't vote they get ignored.
In England they don't vote Tory and since the Tories tell us they are a Government for all of the UK, them ignoring this entirely makes them culpable. They should put pressure on the Scot Gov if they think it's the wrong course of action.
I am getting very angry with your constant attitude towards young people quite frankly.
University doesn't pay the... house... if the marks aren't paying for accommodation etc.
Go fully online, and the rubes might ask what they are paying for, in some instances.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
Your party enforced them going back (in England). They could have told them to stay at home but just like their policy on office working, they flip flopped.
I am afraid on this particular issue, you are naive.
Which students have been irresponsible? Some examples? What have they done?
At my age the one thing I am not is naive
And just read reports on the outbreaks in Scottish Universities and they will answer your question in great detail
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
Your party enforced them going back (in England). They could have told them to stay at home but just like their policy on office working, they flip flopped.
I am afraid on this particular issue, you are naive.
Which students have been irresponsible? Some examples? What have they done?
In all the reports, where they have interviewed students, most have admitted they have broken the rules of not socializing outside of their own household to greater or lesser degree, with most saying but we weren't as bad as others.
There are also a number of videos of large parties at the wordt affected universities.
But what did university authorities expect if they didn't provide anything. As i reported yesterday, i am aware of one university that setup up a special zone just for those living on campus.
If GOP in states appoint EC electors who vote for Trump even if their home state has voted Biden, and assuming that delivers Trump the white house, then I really don't see how there isn't massive political violence in America.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
What a load of nonsense.
Young people do not support themselves being locked up at university and not being allowed to go home - do you know who does? 65+. Poll out today showed that.
It's all very well saying it's supported by the population at large, the idea of isolation but most aren't following (something pathetic like 20% were following it) and they don't have Uni staff outside their flats patrolling them, so they can't leave.
You're making a completely invalid comparison and you're wrong.
And the Scottish Government has got it wrong too. No problems with saying that.
It's an absolute disgrace - my point is that the young don't vote. And because they don't vote they get ignored.
In England they don't vote Tory and since the Tories tell us they are a Government for all of the UK, them ignoring this entirely makes them culpable. They should put pressure on the Scot Gov if they think it's the wrong course of action.
I am getting very angry with your constant attitude towards young people quite frankly.
It's funny how young people en masse get blamed for being idiots despite a small percentage yet the older age group don't when it's a small percentage of them being idiots.
There are idiots everywhere.
If the Government knew young people couldn't be trusted to socialise, they're idiots for telling them to go back to University.
I said this right at the start, if alcohol gets involved people will be stupid. That started with opening the pubs and it continues with University.
They should have enforced online learning and left it at that.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
They already do. The Scottish government pays the fees on behalf of Scottish students.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
What a load of nonsense.
Young people do not support themselves being locked up at university and not being allowed to go home - do you know who does? 65+. Poll out today showed that.
It's all very well saying it's supported by the population at large, the idea of isolation but most aren't following (something pathetic like 20% were following it) and they don't have Uni staff outside their flats patrolling them, so they can't leave.
You're making a completely invalid comparison and you're wrong.
And the Scottish Government has got it wrong too. No problems with saying that.
It's an absolute disgrace - my point is that the young don't vote. And because they don't vote they get ignored.
In England they don't vote Tory and since the Tories tell us they are a Government for all of the UK, them ignoring this entirely makes them culpable. They should put pressure on the Scot Gov if they think it's the wrong course of action.
I am getting very angry with your constant attitude towards young people quite frankly.
As I said earlier you need to calm down
Stop telling me what to do please, I have only been respectful to you and you're constantly being rude and condescending in return.
I am getting pretty tired of it Big G to be honest. Stop treating me in this way, I have my views and I will air them.
This is an issue I get very pissed off about, people younger than me (but not much in the grand scheme) are constantly being blamed for everything. And I can't think of the damage it does to them.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
Your party enforced them going back (in England). They could have told them to stay at home but just like their policy on office working, they flip flopped.
I am afraid on this particular issue, you are naive.
Which students have been irresponsible? Some examples? What have they done?
In all the reports, where they have interviewed students, most have admitted they have broken the rules of not socializing outside of their own household to greater or lesser degree, with most saying but we weren't as bad as others.
There are also a number of videos of large parties at the wordt affected universities.
But what did university authorities expect if they didn't provide anything. As i reported yesterday, i am aware of one university that setup up a special zone just for those living on campus.
So it's a small percentage, it's funny how in this case Vox pops and so on are suddenly reliable.
I am not saying there aren't idiots, I am disputing it is a large number of students doing it.
Like I said above though, if they can't be trusted, they shouldn't have been sent back.
Genie is out of the bottle now, time for the Governments to do something.
I think that the smart first year students got places at their hometown uni and still have their mothers doing their laundry and making their tea.
Fox jr 2 was wise to go for flatshare with a mate rather than halls.
They all knew that a lot would be online, and lockdowns likely, they are intelligent young people. But what is the alternative? Sit on the sofa at home for a year, no travel or jobs? And will it be better next year? Better to keep going.
I think i will still try and give a luxury stay in the ICU a miss if possible.
The thread is worth a read. ICU admissions more ethnic and from poorer communities.
When we got into lockdown harder in a few weeks, may i recommend the remake of the Mafia game.
A return to when games had a good story, rather than all being some variant of battle royale.
For those who enjoy historical drama, I would throughly recommend the fifty (!) hour Korean series set around the founding of the Joseon dynasty, “Six Flying Dragons”, currently available on Netflix. I’ve watched it twice, and it is brilliantly entertaining.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
If GOP in states appoint EC electors who vote for Trump even if their home state has voted Biden, and assuming that delivers Trump the white house, then I really don't see how there isn't massive political violence in America.
I've said my bit on this and I'll leave it at that, as I am getting increasingly pissed off with the condescending attitude from some here and I am going to say things I'll regret.
If GOP in states appoint EC electors who vote for Trump even if their home state has voted Biden, and assuming that delivers Trump the white house, then I really don't see how there isn't massive political violence in America.
If GOP in states appoint EC electors who vote for Trump even if their home state has voted Biden, and assuming that delivers Trump the white house, then I really don't see how there isn't massive political violence in America.
It would be a coup, worthy of Mr Lukashenko.
On the subject of coups, I hope this young woman is OK.
If GOP in states appoint EC electors who vote for Trump even if their home state has voted Biden, and assuming that delivers Trump the white house, then I really don't see how there isn't massive political violence in America.
If you had Conservative-run Surrey County Council and its eleven constituencies and let's imagine at a future GE, the Lib Dems won three of the eleven and the Conservatives the other eight. The ruling Conservative group then claims that due to "irregularities", three Conservative County Councillors would represent the seats won by the LDs.
That's basically what Trump and elements of the GOP are proposing.
Normally this opinion poll would be exactly what one would expect in the normal rhythm of politics, and it would mean absolutely zilch this far away from a general election. However, the natives on the Tory backbenches are a bit restless, noticeably so given we are only 9 months into this government's rule. That's because quite a lot recognise, if they are honest with themselves, that Boris is simply not up to the job of PM. He's been dealt a weak hand, but has played it particularly badly. If Labour leads for a couple of months, or increases its lead, that restlessness will only increase. So, I reckon this poll counts for a bit more than it normally would - something, rather than absolutely zilch.
I have for a few weeks predicted Boris would be out in the first 6 months of 2021
He just is not cutting it and Cummings, Williamson and his IMB have all been a disaster
He has lost his authority and does not look well
Time to go and spend it with Carrie and his little one and write columns for newspapers
The article seems to think people will revolt over the increased restrictions - but the Opinium poll shows overwhelming support for them, and a preference for them being tougher.
At a guess, from old people sitting at home on fat pensions and white collar workers working from home on fat salaries. We'll see how long that attitude survives the effects of the total lockdown we've got coming that will last all the way until next Easter.
The former group will be cosseted regardless, but the latter may not be so pleased when 1930s levels of unemployment means they're handing over most of their salaries in tax.
I think that the smart first year students got places at their hometown uni and still have their mothers doing their laundry and making their tea.
Fox jr 2 was wise to go for flatshare with a mate rather than halls.
They all knew that a lot would be online, and lockdowns likely, they are intelligent young people. But what is the alternative? Sit on the sofa at home for a year, no travel or jobs? And will it be better next year? Better to keep going.
I think i will still try and give a luxury stay in the ICU a miss if possible.
The thread is worth a read. ICU admissions more ethnic and from poorer communities.
Every Tory leader I can think of has always gone behind in the polls, normally much quicker than this. Cameron spent virtually the entire 2010-2015 Parliament behind Ed. Thatcher went behind immediately after entering Downing Street in 1979.
There's no point panicking or over-reacting. A Labour lead was inevitable.
Whilst all of that is true you would be hard pushed to find another PM who turned a 26% lead into a 3% loss in 6 months.
Theresa May 2017 comes very close to that.
The Tory share has barely moved from its election levels, for a year past the election the Tory share has not dropped that much in historical terms.
The change mainly comes from the Labour side largely uniting non-Tory votes with the Lib Dems down to much less than they got even at the 2015 Election. We'll see if that's sustainable or actually happens.
Normally this opinion poll would be exactly what one would expect in the normal rhythm of politics, and it would mean absolutely zilch this far away from a general election. However, the natives on the Tory backbenches are a bit restless, noticeably so given we are only 9 months into this government's rule. That's because quite a lot recognise, if they are honest with themselves, that Boris is simply not up to the job of PM. He's been dealt a weak hand, but has played it particularly badly. If Labour leads for a couple of months, or increases its lead, that restlessness will only increase. So, I reckon this poll counts for a bit more than it normally would - something, rather than absolutely zilch.
I have for a few weeks predicted Boris would be out in the first 6 months of 2021
He just is not cutting it and Cummings, Williamson and his IMB have all been a disaster
He has lost his authority and does not look well
Time to go and spend it with Carrie and his little one and write columns for newspapers
The article seems to think people will revolt over the increased restrictions - but the Opinium poll shows overwhelming support for them, and a preference for them being tougher.
At a guess, from old people sitting at home on fat pensions and white collar workers working from home on fat salaries. We'll see how long that attitude survives the effects of the total lockdown we've got coming that will last all the way until next Easter.
The former group will be cosseted regardless, but the latter may not be so pleased when 1930s levels of unemployment means they're handing over most of their salaries in tax.
The latter (on tax) wont happen in the next year. More likely though they will find their own job going because the economy is a tightly linked ecosystem and they will not be immune to the shitstorm coming.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
What a load of nonsense.
Young people do not support themselves being locked up at university and not being allowed to go home - do you know who does? 65+. Poll out today showed that.
It's all very well saying it's supported by the population at large, the idea of isolation but most aren't following (something pathetic like 20% were following it) and they don't have Uni staff outside their flats patrolling them, so they can't leave.
You're making a completely invalid comparison and you're wrong.
And the Scottish Government has got it wrong too. No problems with saying that.
It's an absolute disgrace - my point is that the young don't vote. And because they don't vote they get ignored.
In England they don't vote Tory and since the Tories tell us they are a Government for all of the UK, them ignoring this entirely makes them culpable. They should put pressure on the Scot Gov if they think it's the wrong course of action.
I am getting very angry with your constant attitude towards young people quite frankly.
As I said earlier you need to calm down
Stop telling me what to do please, I have only been respectful to you and you're constantly being rude and condescending in return.
I am getting pretty tired of it Big G to be honest. Stop treating me in this way, I have my views and I will air them.
This is an issue I get very pissed off about, people younger than me (but not much in the grand scheme) are constantly being blamed for everything. And I can't think of the damage it does to them.
The one thing you and I can agree on is the appalling damage all this is doing to young people and their education
My eldest granddaughter was the top student in her school last year and intends going to University next September to study Italian and Japanese to add to her English, Welsh and French. She is facing mayhem next year and it does worry me very much
Additionally of my three younger grandchildren they are all suffering in different ways as well, and my youngest said to me a day ago
'Papa - If I get a cold I will be OK but if I get covid I will die'
It was deeply upsetting
And of course I worry greatly for our young people about their mental health and futures and to suggest anything else is unworthy of you
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
I think students have been misled by their universities, who should have set expectations at the very least that normal student life isn't possible right now. However:
A large number of the cases at the moment are amongst students. Whatever it is that at least some students were doing, they need to stop doing it.
If you have tested positive you quarantine to stop further spread. Them's the No Shit rules everyone should be following
We're in an epidemic. No-one else is socialising. Students don't get a pass on this.
I think that the smart first year students got places at their hometown uni and still have their mothers doing their laundry and making their tea.
Fox jr 2 was wise to go for flatshare with a mate rather than halls.
They all knew that a lot would be online, and lockdowns likely, they are intelligent young people. But what is the alternative? Sit on the sofa at home for a year, no travel or jobs? And will it be better next year? Better to keep going.
I think i will still try and give a luxury stay in the ICU a miss if possible.
The thread is worth a read. ICU admissions more ethnic and from poorer communities.
One suspects that the effect upon the former is largely a direct consequence of the latter. I'd imagine that the proportions of deaths and serious illnesses would be much more heavily skewed towards poorer and more urban communities in the second wave than they were in the first.
I mean, if there are a lot of students going to university, getting the thing and then running home again, as has now been reported in Scotland, then this might level the playing field a bit. However, as it is I suspect we'll find that compliance with social distancing and other control measures is both more common and easier to achieve in wealthier areas with lower population densities.
Well done LAB fans on here for getting excited by the 3% poll lead!
I've ben around longer than most of you and have been LAB in my time - given it's mid term and the CORONA mess LAB need to be 40% clear now to think of any chance of winning GE2024
I guess Blair was right, tacking towards the centre is the way to electoral success.
I was wrong - I am happy to admit that
See, that's very true. But, Starmer is still quite strongly on the left flank economically. What he's realised is that the British public have tacked quite strongly to the left on economic issues since 2008, but have moved away from liberalism a bit. Not to the extent that the madder Tories have done, but they're mostly fed up of culture wars and disliked Corbyn (and his shadow cabinet) based on those issues. Steal the cloak of patriotism, look competent and espouse social democratic economic policy and you might end up with something that looks and sounds like Clem Atlee. If you squint.
Indeed. As further evidence in support of that I present.........
Claire Ainsley: Director of Policy - Leader of the Opposition, Keir Starmer MP; Author 'The New Working Class: how to win hearts, minds and votes' (and occasional contributor to 'Brexit Central' in the past).
In so far as I can tell from the Amazon preview, the prescription in her book seems to match the direction Starmer has been heading so far. It sounds like it's worth a read.
Well done LAB fans on here for getting excited by the 3% poll lead!
I've ben around longer than most of you and have been LAB in my time - given it's mid term and the CORONA mess LAB need to be 40% clear now to think of any chance of winning GE2024
Well done LAB fans on here for getting excited by the 3% poll lead!
I've ben around longer than most of you and have been LAB in my time - given it's mid term and the CORONA mess LAB need to be 40% clear now to think of any chance of winning GE2024
40% clear? Now there's a thought.
OK LAB were 40% clear in 1995 but that was in normal times. They would need to be 40% clear in today's CORONA shambles as that only equates to 20% clear in normal times like 1990. CON won in 1992.
Normally this opinion poll would be exactly what one would expect in the normal rhythm of politics, and it would mean absolutely zilch this far away from a general election. However, the natives on the Tory backbenches are a bit restless, noticeably so given we are only 9 months into this government's rule. That's because quite a lot recognise, if they are honest with themselves, that Boris is simply not up to the job of PM. He's been dealt a weak hand, but has played it particularly badly. If Labour leads for a couple of months, or increases its lead, that restlessness will only increase. So, I reckon this poll counts for a bit more than it normally would - something, rather than absolutely zilch.
I have for a few weeks predicted Boris would be out in the first 6 months of 2021
He just is not cutting it and Cummings, Williamson and his IMB have all been a disaster
He has lost his authority and does not look well
Time to go and spend it with Carrie and his little one and write columns for newspapers
The article seems to think people will revolt over the increased restrictions - but the Opinium poll shows overwhelming support for them, and a preference for them being tougher.
At a guess, from old people sitting at home on fat pensions and white collar workers working from home on fat salaries. We'll see how long that attitude survives the effects of the total lockdown we've got coming that will last all the way until next Easter.
The former group will be cosseted regardless, but the latter may not be so pleased when 1930s levels of unemployment means they're handing over most of their salaries in tax.
The latter (on tax) wont happen in the next year. More likely though they will find their own job going because the economy is a tightly linked ecosystem and they will not be immune to the shitstorm coming.
It's a good point, and few of us of working age can feel truly safe from the sack. I've allowed myself the indulgence of blowing some money on new clothes today (the new academic year starts in Cambridge a week Monday, so that'll probably be the last time we'll be venturing there for Lord knows how long,) but broadly speaking I've been saving hand over fist in case we need the money. I've reasons to believe that I'm more likely than not to be safe in my current employment but can take absolutely no chances - and there will be millions and millions of people who are suddenly going to find themselves having to plead with mostly unforgiving landlords and mortgage lenders not to end up sleeping under a bridge by Christmas.
Lockdown 2.0 is coming, and I don't think most people appreciate just how dreadful this is going to get. We're not talking Winter of Discontent dreadful, we're talking pre-welfare state, Road to Wigan Pier dreadful.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands, if not a million, who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
Every Tory leader I can think of has always gone behind in the polls, normally much quicker than this. Cameron spent virtually the entire 2010-2015 Parliament behind Ed. Thatcher went behind immediately after entering Downing Street in 1979.
There's no point panicking or over-reacting. A Labour lead was inevitable.
Whilst all of that is true you would be hard pushed to find another PM who turned a 26% lead into a 3% loss in 6 months.
Yeah, but a lot of that is down to Labour replacing an unelectable leader with a more plausible one.
Again true but it underlines the fact that Boris's much vaunted popularity was actually pretty shallow and was mainly down to the fact that the alternative was Corbyn
Well done LAB fans on here for getting excited by the 3% poll lead!
I've ben around longer than most of you and have been LAB in my time - given it's mid term and the CORONA mess LAB need to be 40% clear now to think of any chance of winning GE2024
40% clear? Now there's a thought.
OK LAB were 40% clear in 1995 but that was in normal times. They would need to be 40% clear in today's CORONA shambles as that only equates to 20% clear in normal times like 1990. CON won in 1992.
When Mr Sunak's free money runs out and Johnson, during the second wave, is made to eat words like 'it is your patriotic duty to go to the pub' a decent long term Labour lead is not beyond the realms of possibility.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Well done LAB fans on here for getting excited by the 3% poll lead!
I've ben around longer than most of you and have been LAB in my time - given it's mid term and the CORONA mess LAB need to be 40% clear now to think of any chance of winning GE2024
On leader approval ratings, Starmer already has a 31% net lead over Johnson (+19% v -12%). 40% doesn't seem that far away at all.
And as OGH has often claimed, dating back at least to the time when Miliband was miles behind Cameron in approval ratings despite Labour having a small lead in VI, leader ratings are ultimately a better guide to general election outcomes than VI.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
If the Government wants to prevent panic over COVID preventing overwhelming demand to shut down the entire country's economy again they need to get smarter about regularly publicising wider information on deaths and hospitalisation information than just COVID. Whilst COVID is obviously a genuine threat and scary thing for many people, its magnitude has been exaggerated because it is the only thing that people see numbers for on a regular basis, and lack a sensible comparison basis. Put Covid deaths in context and give people a greater degree of personal choice, but informed personal choice.
Having made little or no attempt at serious enforcement of self isolation and quarantine for the country at large, where many are ignoring or bending the rules whilst in far more congenial living conditions, students are being disgracefully scapegoated for circumstances largely beyond their control (indeed having been actively encouraged to put themselves in this position), imprisoned and threatened with fines, disciplinary action or worst, many without any warning or knowledge of the basis for their predicament.
It's disgraceful.
Absolutely is and it is because they're young and don't vote Tory, that this is being done.
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You need to calm down
I am absolutely right.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
You are absolutely not right
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
And the reason they were all sent into lockdown is because rental income has become cash cows to universities and they were lured there on the basis that it would be necessary for some face to face teaching to be part of their courses. Face to face teaching of which has in many cases been cancelled as well.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
I largely agree
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with everyone or disagreeing with everyone tonight BigG! Or both
I basically agree students should not have been put in this position and lectures gone largely on line
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
The problem is those who have been totally responsible but find themselves in enforced quarantine as well. And i still say that irresponsible or not, the way these quarantines are being enforced is totally unsustainable. One off periods of self-isolation can possibly be just about endured (although there should definitely be mixing allowed within the bubbles (at least at eg. shared kitchen level) with any clearly vulnerable students moved elsewhere for their own safety. But not repeated rolling quarantines every time somebody tests positive.
And this is where students will need to study online away from campus
And what about all those students in private rented accommodation? That’ll be hundreds of thousands who’ll owe thousands of pounds each to private landlords for absolutely no reason.
I fear that Universities may have to close their campus if covid does not stabilise and the economic ramifications are immeasurable
Yeah but you haven’t answered the question. In a vast majority of cases students live in accommodation that has nothing to do with their university.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.
To be honest I have no idea and really wish I had an answer
Comments
The young have constantly been screwed over and attacked over the last decade.
You see it in polling, old people that vote want them to stay there locked in their rooms and because they vote they get what they want.
These people don't vote and don't vote Tory, hence they get ignored in the decisions. I stated a fact - I know you don't like it but it wasn't wrong.
No need for the condescending post either Big G, please respect me as I respect you.
Well I would.
https://twitter.com/ActuaryByDay/status/1309959350061019141?s=19 Fox jr 2 was wise to go for flatshare with a mate rather than halls.
They all knew that a lot would be online, and lockdowns likely, they are intelligent young people. But what is the alternative? Sit on the sofa at home for a year, no travel or jobs? And will it be better next year? Better to keep going.
Incidentally i wonder what the experts are predicting for the number of flu deaths this winter. Given all the anti-influenza measures being enacted...
My initial thought is Lawrence Fox will get plenty of air time on GB News where he can puff up his one-man band. It'll be interesting to see if he puts up candidates for the elections next May - £1 million won't get him that far.
Other things - Labour ahead in the polls, I almost fell off my chair in excitement (he lied). Still, it's probably more than Starmer could have hoped at this stage but it's a marathon not a milky way.
The Liberal Democrat Conference is a curious beast though the Liberal Party Assemblies were even more so. The debate on UBI is interesting - the Party is committed only to looking at the policy in more detail which is fair enough. As for decriminalisation of drugs, this has been on the table for the last 30 years at least.
At a time when we are openly debating the inability of law enforcement to enforce some laws, it's a valid question to ask if a law for which there seems to be little deterrence in terms of being prosecuted is worth having as a law at all. You can argue most laws only function with consent but if enough don't provide that consent, at what point does the law itself become meaningless?
Nicola Sturgeon was the first to mandate student lockdown due to the large outbreak in Scotland and it was the right thing to do
Furthermore the action is widely supported across all sections of the populace
This is a collective failure borne of oversight by Government, and desperation by the universities themselves. It's arguable that the large majority of students could've been told to stay at home and taught remotely - basically all of them except the ones with a substantial hands-on element to their studies (e.g. medical and chemistry students,) and those who have nowhere else safe to live. However, that would've required forethought from ministers, and for the embattled institutions themselves to forfeit a fortune in rents that most of them apart from Oxford and Cambridge can likely ill-afford.
Hence the mess the students find themselves in. The universities wanted the money and neither the central nor the devolved administrations sought to intervene.
God help us.
A large part of the "support" for the lockdowns is the scapegoating of students by making out that they are all out at illegal raves every night, and a complete lack of knowledge of the living conditions that many are forced to endure these conditions under.
And supported by large sectors of the population who are themselves ignoring or twisting the requirements for themselves to self-isolate safe in the knowledge that for them at least, the rules are largely unenforceable. Unlike some of these students who have police patrolling their blocks watching out for anybody who might try to escape.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/judge-rules-fox-news-tucker-carlson-not-source-of-news-defamation-suit-mcdougal-trump.html
I would suggest that when this shakes out Scottish Universities will have to charge all students fees
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1309966254745235456?s=19
God help the UK.
Why do we often have to just copy whatever shit the US gets up to.
This will just fuel the division we already seeing.
Your other points are absolutely correct. I'm afraid many students have behaved like absolute idiots and totally ignored government guidance on Covid.
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1309963976361598976?s=19
How liberals made the world nuts: They used to champion freedom and tolerance - and PIERS MORGAN has always been proud to be one. So how, he asks in his new book, have liberals become a shrieking mob hell-bent on silencing all dissent?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8776121/PIERS-MORGAN-liberals-shrieking-mob-hell-bent-silencing-dissent.html
On a lighter note...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/25/argentina-politician-breasts-online-debate
A return to when games had a good story, rather than all being some variant of battle royale.
But I also agree that some have been very irresponsible and need to be in enforced quarantine
So maybe that accounts for my ambiguity
And I am elderly !!!!
Young people do not support themselves being locked up at university and not being allowed to go home - do you know who does? 65+. Poll out today showed that.
It's all very well saying it's supported by the population at large, the idea of isolation but most aren't following (something pathetic like 20% were following it) and they don't have Uni staff outside their flats patrolling them, so they can't leave.
You're making a completely invalid comparison and you're wrong.
And the Scottish Government has got it wrong too. No problems with saying that.
It's an absolute disgrace - my point is that the young don't vote. And because they don't vote they get ignored.
In England they don't vote Tory and since the Tories tell us they are a Government for all of the UK, them ignoring this entirely makes them culpable. They should put pressure on the Scot Gov if they think it's the wrong course of action.
I am getting very angry with your constant attitude towards young people quite frankly.
I am afraid on this particular issue, you are naive.
Which students have been irresponsible? Some examples? What have they done?
https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1309964130368008194?s=19
Or it a tiny percentage like the rest of the population?
At the end of the day, they were told to go back to Uni. I think that was a mistake.
https://twitter.com/jsatz23/status/1309853401295982592
No doubt a lawyer as accomplished as she will be able further to distinguish the cases...
Go fully online, and the rubes might ask what they are paying for, in some instances.
Get your degree here - http://cynicalbastards.com/ubs/
And just read reports on the outbreaks in Scottish Universities and they will answer your question in great detail
Maybe follow Nicola on twitter
There are also a number of videos of large parties at the wordt affected universities.
But what did university authorities expect if they didn't provide anything. As i reported yesterday, i am aware of one university that setup up a special zone just for those living on campus.
There are idiots everywhere.
If the Government knew young people couldn't be trusted to socialise, they're idiots for telling them to go back to University.
I said this right at the start, if alcohol gets involved people will be stupid. That started with opening the pubs and it continues with University.
They should have enforced online learning and left it at that.
I am getting pretty tired of it Big G to be honest. Stop treating me in this way, I have my views and I will air them.
This is an issue I get very pissed off about, people younger than me (but not much in the grand scheme) are constantly being blamed for everything. And I can't think of the damage it does to them.
I am not saying there aren't idiots, I am disputing it is a large number of students doing it.
Like I said above though, if they can't be trusted, they shouldn't have been sent back.
Genie is out of the bottle now, time for the Governments to do something.
https://twitter.com/ActuaryByDay/status/1309959296759853057?s=19
I’ve watched it twice, and it is brilliantly entertaining.
https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1309852213339193349
https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1309855081966206976
Good - and a pay rise.
https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1309844137420746752?s=19
That's basically what Trump and elements of the GOP are proposing.
https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1309960802485645313/photo/1
The former group will be cosseted regardless, but the latter may not be so pleased when 1930s levels of unemployment means they're handing over most of their salaries in tax.
The Tory share has barely moved from its election levels, for a year past the election the Tory share has not dropped that much in historical terms.
The change mainly comes from the Labour side largely uniting non-Tory votes with the Lib Dems down to much less than they got even at the 2015 Election. We'll see if that's sustainable or actually happens.
My eldest granddaughter was the top student in her school last year and intends going to University next September to study Italian and Japanese to add to her English, Welsh and French. She is facing mayhem next year and it does worry me very much
Additionally of my three younger grandchildren they are all suffering in different ways as well, and my youngest said to me a day ago
'Papa - If I get a cold I will be OK but if I get covid I will die'
It was deeply upsetting
And of course I worry greatly for our young people about their mental health and futures and to suggest anything else is unworthy of you
well not for some.
Split that Tory vote!
I mean, if there are a lot of students going to university, getting the thing and then running home again, as has now been reported in Scotland, then this might level the playing field a bit. However, as it is I suspect we'll find that compliance with social distancing and other control measures is both more common and easier to achieve in wealthier areas with lower population densities.
I couldn't disagree with Fox more on basically anything but I respect his right to speak
I've ben around longer than most of you and have been LAB in my time - given it's mid term and the CORONA mess LAB need to be 40% clear now to think of any chance of winning GE2024
Claire Ainsley: Director of Policy - Leader of the Opposition, Keir Starmer MP; Author 'The New Working Class: how to win hearts, minds and votes' (and occasional contributor to 'Brexit Central' in the past).
In so far as I can tell from the Amazon preview, the prescription in her book seems to match the direction Starmer has been heading so far. It sounds like it's worth a read.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/new-working-class-Claire-Ainsley/dp/1447344189
https://twitter.com/Robillard/status/1309965434368778245?s=19
Lockdown 2.0 is coming, and I don't think most people appreciate just how dreadful this is going to get. We're not talking Winter of Discontent dreadful, we're talking pre-welfare state, Road to Wigan Pier dreadful.
And as OGH has often claimed, dating back at least to the time when Miliband was miles behind Cameron in approval ratings despite Labour having a small lead in VI, leader ratings are ultimately a better guide to general election outcomes than VI.
Accommodation that costs thousands of pounds and which students are contracted to pay for.