Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

A back down by Boris on his “break international law Bill” ? – politicalbetting.com

24

Comments

  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT - Laurence Fox is a good example of someone who was previously of the soft metro Left but who had doubts about identity politics.

    The reaction of the radical Left to that having driven him to the alt-right.

    He makes shit up because he has no understanding about history.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51233734

    Whereas the Wokeists' historical knowledge is always perfect and without flaw...

    https://twitter.com/CucuillinSkyes/status/1302829629816930304

    https://twitter.com/MarkBednar/status/1281611428739395586
    Wrong country.
    Sadly the wokeist idiocy has gone global. Plenty of them in the UK too.
    But the teaching of history in the UK has to be better than the US - judging from films, it could hardly be worse ...
    I had a very expensively-educated US friend at uni who thought that the USA created the first English dictionary and knew the name of the American who (in the 19th century!) created it. As if Dr Johnson never happened. But what he actually knew was when the first American dictionary was created. Not sure what the point is of teaching them that.
    "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson

    As a long-time Tory hack, the good Doctor knew of which he spoke!

    FYI, Noah Webster was ALSO a right-wing hack, in his case for the Federalist Party.

    That said, both made signal contributions to their nations and the world, in particular their dictionaries, both of which were great leaps forward for the English language.

    Johnson's dictionary was of course first. But Webster's was better.

    IF you disagree, stick it in your Funk & Wagnalls!

    But Dr Johnson wasn't criticising patriotism. His meaning was that even after all other virtues (honour, chivalry etc.) had been abandoned, patriotism was the last one to go. Most people who quote him now just use it to criticise the notion of patriotism and patriots.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Former Tory vice-chairman Ben Bradley declares he will REFUSE to take part in 'unconscious bias' training for MPs involving a giant blue puppet, saying Tory voters 'abhor the antics' of Black Lives Matter

    Mansfield MP attacked programme for MPs created after BLM protests
    Blasted 'metropolitan groupthink that is intolerant to any diversity of views'
    Parliament has paid Challenge Consultancy £7,000 to design the course "

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8735653/Top-Tory-Ben-Bradley-declares-REFUSE-unconscious-bias-training-MPs.html

    He has considered it and decided he is consciously biased against it.
    Some may say that is the definition of "prejudice". :)
    Ben Bradley is special.

    https://twitter.com/bbradley_mans/status/967526680188375040?lang=en
    And in the GE he increased his majority from just over 1000 to nearly 16000.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. Its not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,103
    edited September 2020

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. Its not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.


    Its Robert Peston....woohooo, that means Christmas and New Year will be defo back to normal.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT - Laurence Fox is a good example of someone who was previously of the soft metro Left but who had doubts about identity politics.

    The reaction of the radical Left to that having driven him to the alt-right.

    He makes shit up because he has no understanding about history.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51233734

    Whereas the Wokeists' historical knowledge is always perfect and without flaw...

    https://twitter.com/CucuillinSkyes/status/1302829629816930304

    https://twitter.com/MarkBednar/status/1281611428739395586
    Wrong country.
    Sadly the wokeist idiocy has gone global. Plenty of them in the UK too.
    But the teaching of history in the UK has to be better than the US - judging from films, it could hardly be worse ...
    Perhaps in America they just don't want to learn.

    I asked a guide in Antigua why there was no mention of the slave trade in her presentation. She explained that most of her customers are American and many just don't want to hear about slavery. She said she was once told by a tourist from the USA that there were no slaves they were indentured servants.
    When it comes to truly mindless ignorance, no doubt about it - USA is Number One!

    However, note that among our teaming masses & wretched refuge are VERY many who truly care about (and actually know at least some) history - and NOT (always) for (strictly) ideological purposes & motives.
    Of that I have no doubt, and every last man jack of them will not be voting Trump.
    Sadly do NOT agree with your final sentence. Because yours truly knows different.

    On other hand, it IS possible to have mutually fruitful discussions with most Trumskyites who are sincerely interested in history. For while their politics and/or ideology may be wacked out (from my perspective anyway) they at least appreciate that there is ALWAYS more sides in any controversy - historic OR contemporary.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. Its not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.


    Its Robert Peston....woohooo, that means Christmas and New Year will be defo back to normal.
    LOL I half thought that myself....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    C'mon Nige, strap-in and chocks away. 'Chutes are for milquetoast libtards btw.

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1305905537029222400?s=20

    With Nige's track record of light aircraft action thank goodness he didn't take part in the Battle of Britain himself.

    Biggles he ain't!
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT - Laurence Fox is a good example of someone who was previously of the soft metro Left but who had doubts about identity politics.

    The reaction of the radical Left to that having driven him to the alt-right.

    He makes shit up because he has no understanding about history.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51233734

    Whereas the Wokeists' historical knowledge is always perfect and without flaw...

    https://twitter.com/CucuillinSkyes/status/1302829629816930304

    https://twitter.com/MarkBednar/status/1281611428739395586
    Wrong country.
    Sadly the wokeist idiocy has gone global. Plenty of them in the UK too.
    But the teaching of history in the UK has to be better than the US - judging from films, it could hardly be worse ...
    I had a very expensively-educated US friend at uni who thought that the USA created the first English dictionary and knew the name of the American who (in the 19th century!) created it. As if Dr Johnson never happened. But what he actually knew was when the first American dictionary was created. Not sure what the point is of teaching them that.
    "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson

    As a long-time Tory hack, the good Doctor knew of which he spoke!

    FYI, Noah Webster was ALSO a right-wing hack, in his case for the Federalist Party.

    That said, both made signal contributions to their nations and the world, in particular their dictionaries, both of which were great leaps forward for the English language.

    Johnson's dictionary was of course first. But Webster's was better.

    IF you disagree, stick it in your Funk & Wagnalls!

    But Dr Johnson wasn't criticising patriotism. His meaning was that even after all other virtues (honour, chivalry etc.) had been abandoned, patriotism was the last one to go. Most people who quote him now just use it to criticise the notion of patriotism and patriots.
    Dr Johnson was criticizing William Pitt the Elder aka Earl of Chatham (or visa versa).
  • ydoethur said:

    On the Salisbury convention - who decides whether a Bill is covered by it? Has it ever been contentious before?

    Many times:

    https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/lords-library/hllsalisburydoctrine.pdf

    Essentially, it seems the Lords themselves decide, on the basis that if the government disagrees, it can call an election. But I’ve got a feeling in recent years the Speaker has had a role.
    Okay, so essentially it comes down to a matter of opinion. Interesting to read that the origins was in a sense that the Lords had to not use its power of veto almost all the time in order to retain it for when it really mattered.

    Can't think of a better time for them to go out in a blaze of glory than by attempting to keep the government to its word.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533


    But Dr Johnson wasn't criticising patriotism. His meaning was that even after all other virtues (honour, chivalry etc.) had been abandoned, patriotism was the last one to go. Most people who quote him now just use it to criticise the notion of patriotism and patriots.

    I understand him to mean that appeals to patriotism should not be taken as excuses for bad behaviour - breaking the law, to take a random example. It's not against patriotism, but rather its use as a cover.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208


    But Dr Johnson wasn't criticising patriotism. His meaning was that even after all other virtues (honour, chivalry etc.) had been abandoned, patriotism was the last one to go. Most people who quote him now just use it to criticise the notion of patriotism and patriots.

    I understand him to mean that appeals to patriotism should not be taken as excuses for bad behaviour - breaking the law, to take a random example. It's not against patriotism, but rather its use as a cover.
    "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

    Dr Johnson was of course talking about the other Johnson, even though he didn't know him personally.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Former Tory vice-chairman Ben Bradley declares he will REFUSE to take part in 'unconscious bias' training for MPs involving a giant blue puppet, saying Tory voters 'abhor the antics' of Black Lives Matter

    Mansfield MP attacked programme for MPs created after BLM protests
    Blasted 'metropolitan groupthink that is intolerant to any diversity of views'
    Parliament has paid Challenge Consultancy £7,000 to design the course "

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8735653/Top-Tory-Ben-Bradley-declares-REFUSE-unconscious-bias-training-MPs.html

    He has considered it and decided he is consciously biased against it.
    Some may say that is the definition of "prejudice". :)
    Ben Bradley is special.

    https://twitter.com/bbradley_mans/status/967526680188375040?lang=en
    And in the GE he increased his majority from just over 1000 to nearly 16000.
    Nobody should be forced to apologise to Corbyn!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Boris once again negotiating with himself and his lickspittle MPs, rather than with the EU. It's hilarious, or would be if we weren't all going to be hit by the consequences in a few weeks' time. Our EU ex-friends must be looking at all this with a mixture of amusement, horror, anger, impatience, and above all disbelief.
    Our MPs are more important, they set the law the EU does not. Its called Taking Back Control, maybe a concept you should get used to . . . laws set by MPs we elected, what a novel concept!

    --------

    On the topic of the compromise if it is along the lines of the Neill amendment is entirely reasonable. It keeps and puts into law the principle that the UK can override as an emergency "backstop" if required, but puts a reasonable check on that so that the elected Commons must vote first and Ministers can't do it on their own. Quite right to compromise here, I said yesterday I expected this would happen.
    You spent most of yesterday arguing laws don’t matter. International laws, domestic laws, all mere bagatelle according to you.
  • BBC News - Brexit: Advice issued to civil servants worried about breaking law

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54161951
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited September 2020

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT - Laurence Fox is a good example of someone who was previously of the soft metro Left but who had doubts about identity politics.

    The reaction of the radical Left to that having driven him to the alt-right.

    He makes shit up because he has no understanding about history.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51233734

    Whereas the Wokeists' historical knowledge is always perfect and without flaw...

    https://twitter.com/CucuillinSkyes/status/1302829629816930304

    https://twitter.com/MarkBednar/status/1281611428739395586
    Wrong country.
    Sadly the wokeist idiocy has gone global. Plenty of them in the UK too.
    But the teaching of history in the UK has to be better than the US - judging from films, it could hardly be worse ...
    I had a very expensively-educated US friend at uni who thought that the USA created the first English dictionary and knew the name of the American who (in the 19th century!) created it. As if Dr Johnson never happened. But what he actually knew was when the first American dictionary was created. Not sure what the point is of teaching them that.
    It runs both ways. I’ve a degree in history from a reasonably prestigious university and got very sniffy in Boston when I was told that the USS Constitution was the oldest commissioned warship still afloat and loudly claimed it was HMS Victory. I felt a right plonker when the guide pointed out that the Victory is in dry dock,
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    C'mon Nige, strap-in and chocks away. 'Chutes are for milquetoast libtards btw.

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1305905537029222400?s=20

    I thought you said strap-on at first, and winced!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Former Tory vice-chairman Ben Bradley declares he will REFUSE to take part in 'unconscious bias' training for MPs involving a giant blue puppet, saying Tory voters 'abhor the antics' of Black Lives Matter

    Mansfield MP attacked programme for MPs created after BLM protests
    Blasted 'metropolitan groupthink that is intolerant to any diversity of views'
    Parliament has paid Challenge Consultancy £7,000 to design the course "

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8735653/Top-Tory-Ben-Bradley-declares-REFUSE-unconscious-bias-training-MPs.html

    He has considered it and decided he is consciously biased against it.
    Some may say that is the definition of "prejudice". :)
    Ben Bradley is special.

    https://twitter.com/bbradley_mans/status/967526680188375040?lang=en
    And in the GE he increased his majority from just over 1000 to nearly 16000.
    I'd rather the Tories all engaged in this sort of culture war rather than breaking international agreements. Less economically damaging, more electoral mileage.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,875
    edited September 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Goebbels' Sportspalast speech after the defeat at Stalingrad?
  • Carnyx said:

    C'mon Nige, strap-in and chocks away. 'Chutes are for milquetoast libtards btw.

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1305905537029222400?s=20

    I thought you said strap-on at first, and winced!
    Anals of history?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    edited September 2020
    Interestingly, the audience are all elderly or at best middle aged. A very [edit] sharply emphasised detail.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. It's not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.

    Logically one would've thought that we're not going back to April, because the country can't afford another lockdown and it would reduce the economy to rubble. In practice, however, the Government are such a completely useless shower that you can imagine them getting us back there through an escalating series of measures. Put simply, I think the longer the testing problems go on for, and the hospital numbers creep up despite the new measures - both of which look highly likely to happen - the more panicky and desperate they will become.

    On the one hand, reluctance to impose another lockdown because they don't want to extend the furlough and try to borrow another two or three hundred billion quid to hose the burning economy down with money. On the other hand, increasingly loud screaming from under-pressure hospitals and morgues filling back up with octogenarians. The risk from all this is that they don't administer a single killer blow to the economy, but that they do slowly strangle it to death through salami slicing measures like curfews, more and more picky and restrictive masking rules, and more radical social distancing measures (like dumping the rule of six and just telling people to have no social contact at all with anyone outside their own household, except to attend to essential care needs.)

    Meanwhile, it is reported that Sweden - which continues to refuse to force people to go around in masks - has just registered its *lowest* seven-day average value for new cases for six months. The medical profession seems to have made some meaningful progress in terms of treatments for seriously ill patients, but do epidemiologists honestly have a substantially better idea of how this bloody disease works than they did in March?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Is this a foretaste of how Trump’s Presidency ends... ?

    https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/1305942309821992960
  • A GP writes:

    "I feel there has been definite “mission creep” in our country’s response to this Covid situation. Initially we were asked to stay home to “flatten the curve” and avoid overwhelming the NHS. Now we no longer concern ourselves with hospital admissions or deaths. We are only interested in “cases” which are detected using flawed methods. We have used case data to implement mandatory masks on public transport, shops and schools with a complete absence of evidence for their effectiveness. Now we are no longer allowed to socialise in groups larger than six. Where is this all going to end? What is our aim with these policies?"

    https://lockdownsceptics.org/

    This is precisely what I was saying on here a few nights ago. We started off with flattening the sombrero and now we are in some kind of unspoken zero-covid policy.

    Who is in charge of the strategy and what is it? And how do we get out of this if there is no vaccine for another year or two?

    We should not allow ourselves to be distracted by Johnson's very dead cat of a WA agreement mess from asking these questions.
  • "Some people call us the Nazi party."
  • FF43 said:


    But Dr Johnson wasn't criticising patriotism. His meaning was that even after all other virtues (honour, chivalry etc.) had been abandoned, patriotism was the last one to go. Most people who quote him now just use it to criticise the notion of patriotism and patriots.

    I understand him to mean that appeals to patriotism should not be taken as excuses for bad behaviour - breaking the law, to take a random example. It's not against patriotism, but rather its use as a cover.
    "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

    Dr Johnson was of course talking about the other Johnson, even though he didn't know him personally.
    BoJo IS Dr. Johnson, thanks to his honorary LL.D from Brunel University.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    BBC News - Brexit: Advice issued to civil servants worried about breaking law

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54161951

    Be like Dominic Cummings and not give a shit?
  • https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. It's not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.

    Logically one would've thought that we're not going back to April, because the country can't afford another lockdown and it would reduce the economy to rubble. In practice, however, the Government are such a completely useless shower that you can imagine them getting us back there through an escalating series of measures. Put simply, I think the longer the testing problems go on for, and the hospital numbers creep up despite the new measures - both of which look highly likely to happen - the more panicky and desperate they will become.

    On the one hand, reluctance to impose another lockdown because they don't want to extend the furlough and try to borrow another two or three hundred billion quid to hose the burning economy down with money. On the other hand, increasingly loud screaming from under-pressure hospitals and morgues filling back up with octogenarians. The risk from all this is that they don't administer a single killer blow to the economy, but that they do slowly strangle it to death through salami slicing measures like curfews, more and more picky and restrictive masking rules, and more radical social distancing measures (like dumping the rule of six and just telling people to have no social contact at all with anyone outside their own household, except to attend to essential care needs.)

    Meanwhile, it is reported that Sweden - which continues to refuse to force people to go around in masks - has just registered its *lowest* seven-day average value for new cases for six months. The medical profession seems to have made some meaningful progress in terms of treatments for seriously ill patients, but do epidemiologists honestly have a substantially better idea of how this bloody disease works than they did in March?
    I just do not understand why parliamentarians are not demanding a full and frank debate on the strategy here during which we have a full discussion of Sweden.

    The executive is being left to make a mess of this day after day after day.

    I'd start by asking why Carl Heneghan hasn't been co-opted on to SAGE.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Incidentally, I am just back from a long weekend visiting family in Wales, and can report that the efforts of the Government to cajole people into resuming the daily commute have, indeed, failed completely. The 17:09 from Kings Cross to Ely left London about 10% full, if that.

    The train journeys in and out of the capital in both directions were generally quiet, except for the GWR going from Paddington to Swansea at Saturday lunchtime, which was about half-full: I wouldn't be at all surprised if the trains are now busier at the weekends with visits to friends and family than they are during the week with office workers. The journey through London was OK on Saturday, but awful this afternoon. I shan't bore you with the details: suffice it to say that it was a fresh reminder of why I hate London. There's a lot there that's worth visiting, but having to haul yourself in, out and around the wretched place is a nightmarish experience. If it wasn't sometimes necessary to travel through it to get somewhere else then I might never set foot there again.
  • I don't know what it is about James Delingpole but the way he talks the way he writes what he says - it's all cringeworthy and embarrassing.

    I'm making the mistake of watching something on his "channel".

    It's like he's a socially inept 14-year old boy trapped in a 55-year old man's body, and desperate for both approval and attention.

    I think his main problem is that almost all the people with whom he spent the formative years of his young adulthood have grown up to be vastly more successful than he is. He's got some of the right instincts on culture, but he's also so fundamentally anti-rational as to be maddening.
    Delingpole is the perfect contra-indicator. Whatever position he holds on any issue will inevitably be the exact opposite of the correct one. Kind of like Trump in that regard, but even Trump was right about John Bolton being a war-mongering loon.
  • A GP writes:

    "I feel there has been definite “mission creep” in our country’s response to this Covid situation. Initially we were asked to stay home to “flatten the curve” and avoid overwhelming the NHS. Now we no longer concern ourselves with hospital admissions or deaths. We are only interested in “cases” which are detected using flawed methods. We have used case data to implement mandatory masks on public transport, shops and schools with a complete absence of evidence for their effectiveness. Now we are no longer allowed to socialise in groups larger than six. Where is this all going to end? What is our aim with these policies?"

    https://lockdownsceptics.org/

    This is precisely what I was saying on here a few nights ago. We started off with flattening the sombrero and now we are in some kind of unspoken zero-covid policy.

    Who is in charge of the strategy and what is it? And how do we get out of this if there is no vaccine for another year or two?

    We should not allow ourselves to be distracted by Johnson's very dead cat of a WA agreement mess from asking these questions.

    Well, maybe. On the other hand:

    https://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/1305872181616881665
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    A GP writes:

    "I feel there has been definite “mission creep” in our country’s response to this Covid situation. Initially we were asked to stay home to “flatten the curve” and avoid overwhelming the NHS. Now we no longer concern ourselves with hospital admissions or deaths. We are only interested in “cases” which are detected using flawed methods. We have used case data to implement mandatory masks on public transport, shops and schools with a complete absence of evidence for their effectiveness. Now we are no longer allowed to socialise in groups larger than six. Where is this all going to end? What is our aim with these policies?"

    There’s an actual aim to these policies? I assumed they just got drunk and spouted whatever came into their heads at the time.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. It's not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.

    Logically one would've thought that we're not going back to April, because the country can't afford another lockdown and it would reduce the economy to rubble. In practice, however, the Government are such a completely useless shower that you can imagine them getting us back there through an escalating series of measures. Put simply, I think the longer the testing problems go on for, and the hospital numbers creep up despite the new measures - both of which look highly likely to happen - the more panicky and desperate they will become.

    On the one hand, reluctance to impose another lockdown because they don't want to extend the furlough and try to borrow another two or three hundred billion quid to hose the burning economy down with money. On the other hand, increasingly loud screaming from under-pressure hospitals and morgues filling back up with octogenarians. The risk from all this is that they don't administer a single killer blow to the economy, but that they do slowly strangle it to death through salami slicing measures like curfews, more and more picky and restrictive masking rules, and more radical social distancing measures (like dumping the rule of six and just telling people to have no social contact at all with anyone outside their own household, except to attend to essential care needs.)

    Meanwhile, it is reported that Sweden - which continues to refuse to force people to go around in masks - has just registered its *lowest* seven-day average value for new cases for six months. The medical profession seems to have made some meaningful progress in terms of treatments for seriously ill patients, but do epidemiologists honestly have a substantially better idea of how this bloody disease works than they did in March?
    As with the spring, the reality is that if the conditions worsen, there will be a de facto rather than de jure lockdown anyway. This really is a bugger of a virus.

    I am contemplating two weeks self isolation before Christmas so that I can see my folks properly, with a hug, Christmas cheer etc. Anything else will be grim...

  • But Dr Johnson wasn't criticising patriotism. His meaning was that even after all other virtues (honour, chivalry etc.) had been abandoned, patriotism was the last one to go. Most people who quote him now just use it to criticise the notion of patriotism and patriots.

    I understand him to mean that appeals to patriotism should not be taken as excuses for bad behaviour - breaking the law, to take a random example. It's not against patriotism, but rather its use as a cover.
    If Dr Johnson had said "A scoundrel's last resort is patriotism" it would have been easier for later generations to understand that he was talking about the behaviour of scoundrels, not about the moral worth of patriotism. ISTR making this point in a 6th-form debate about 52 years ago!
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Scott_xP said:
    It's not even a new cartoon - just a retweet of one that appeared in December 2019 after the General Election. Which makes it look even more mental in that context.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT - Laurence Fox is a good example of someone who was previously of the soft metro Left but who had doubts about identity politics.

    The reaction of the radical Left to that having driven him to the alt-right.

    He makes shit up because he has no understanding about history.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51233734

    Whereas the Wokeists' historical knowledge is always perfect and without flaw...

    https://twitter.com/CucuillinSkyes/status/1302829629816930304

    https://twitter.com/MarkBednar/status/1281611428739395586
    Wrong country.
    Sadly the wokeist idiocy has gone global. Plenty of them in the UK too.
    But the teaching of history in the UK has to be better than the US - judging from films, it could hardly be worse ...
    I had a very expensively-educated US friend at uni who thought that the USA created the first English dictionary and knew the name of the American who (in the 19th century!) created it. As if Dr Johnson never happened. But what he actually knew was when the first American dictionary was created. Not sure what the point is of teaching them that.
    It runs both ways. I’ve a degree in history from a reasonably prestigious university and got very sniffy in Boston when I was told that the USS Constitution was the oldest commissioned warship still afloat and loudly claimed it was HMS Victory. I felt a right plonker when the guide pointed out that the Victory is in dry dock,
    We’ve all been there, Doug. :smile:

    You could have confounded him by pointing out that the dock isn’t technically dry, as they have to hose the hull with water to stop it drying out...
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556


    But Dr Johnson wasn't criticising patriotism. His meaning was that even after all other virtues (honour, chivalry etc.) had been abandoned, patriotism was the last one to go. Most people who quote him now just use it to criticise the notion of patriotism and patriots.

    I understand him to mean that appeals to patriotism should not be taken as excuses for bad behaviour - breaking the law, to take a random example. It's not against patriotism, but rather its use as a cover.
    If Dr Johnson had said "A scoundrel's last resort is patriotism" it would have been easier for later generations to understand that he was talking about the behaviour of scoundrels, not about the moral worth of patriotism. ISTR making this point in a 6th-form debate about 52 years ago!
    Dr Johnson: good at words, crap at word-order.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Who does the UK look to to get a grip of the current covid situation? Is there anyone who can take control? Although as with most things one mans control is someone else’s lack of freedoms.
  • https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. It's not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.

    Logically one would've thought that we're not going back to April, because the country can't afford another lockdown and it would reduce the economy to rubble. In practice, however, the Government are such a completely useless shower that you can imagine them getting us back there through an escalating series of measures. Put simply, I think the longer the testing problems go on for, and the hospital numbers creep up despite the new measures - both of which look highly likely to happen - the more panicky and desperate they will become.

    On the one hand, reluctance to impose another lockdown because they don't want to extend the furlough and try to borrow another two or three hundred billion quid to hose the burning economy down with money. On the other hand, increasingly loud screaming from under-pressure hospitals and morgues filling back up with octogenarians. The risk from all this is that they don't administer a single killer blow to the economy, but that they do slowly strangle it to death through salami slicing measures like curfews, more and more picky and restrictive masking rules, and more radical social distancing measures (like dumping the rule of six and just telling people to have no social contact at all with anyone outside their own household, except to attend to essential care needs.)

    Meanwhile, it is reported that Sweden - which continues to refuse to force people to go around in masks - has just registered its *lowest* seven-day average value for new cases for six months. The medical profession seems to have made some meaningful progress in terms of treatments for seriously ill patients, but do epidemiologists honestly have a substantially better idea of how this bloody disease works than they did in March?
    From the speccy article:

    "A senior member of the government told me he was acutely aware of the scientists’ concern. 'There is no possibility of us waiting for the death rate to rise before we act"

    So positive tests rates rise but deaths don't but we shut down everything anyway. And what if many of these + results are false? See Heneghan's discussions of this e.g. https://www.cebm.net/2020/09/pitfalls-of-repeat-testing-illustrated-with-the-house-of-commons/

  • It's not even a new cartoon - just a retweet of one that appeared in December 2019 after the General Election. Which makes it look even more mental in that context.

    Or prescient.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,411
    Mortimer said:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. It's not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.

    Logically one would've thought that we're not going back to April, because the country can't afford another lockdown and it would reduce the economy to rubble. In practice, however, the Government are such a completely useless shower that you can imagine them getting us back there through an escalating series of measures. Put simply, I think the longer the testing problems go on for, and the hospital numbers creep up despite the new measures - both of which look highly likely to happen - the more panicky and desperate they will become.

    On the one hand, reluctance to impose another lockdown because they don't want to extend the furlough and try to borrow another two or three hundred billion quid to hose the burning economy down with money. On the other hand, increasingly loud screaming from under-pressure hospitals and morgues filling back up with octogenarians. The risk from all this is that they don't administer a single killer blow to the economy, but that they do slowly strangle it to death through salami slicing measures like curfews, more and more picky and restrictive masking rules, and more radical social distancing measures (like dumping the rule of six and just telling people to have no social contact at all with anyone outside their own household, except to attend to essential care needs.)

    Meanwhile, it is reported that Sweden - which continues to refuse to force people to go around in masks - has just registered its *lowest* seven-day average value for new cases for six months. The medical profession seems to have made some meaningful progress in terms of treatments for seriously ill patients, but do epidemiologists honestly have a substantially better idea of how this bloody disease works than they did in March?
    As with the spring, the reality is that if the conditions worsen, there will be a de facto rather than de jure lockdown anyway. This really is a bugger of a virus.

    I am contemplating two weeks self isolation before Christmas so that I can see my folks properly, with a hug, Christmas cheer etc. Anything else will be grim...
    By contrast I am hoping NOT to see my in-laws. Anything else would be grim.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited September 2020
    dixiedean said:

    Mortimer said:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. It's not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.

    Logically one would've thought that we're not going back to April, because the country can't afford another lockdown and it would reduce the economy to rubble. In practice, however, the Government are such a completely useless shower that you can imagine them getting us back there through an escalating series of measures. Put simply, I think the longer the testing problems go on for, and the hospital numbers creep up despite the new measures - both of which look highly likely to happen - the more panicky and desperate they will become.

    On the one hand, reluctance to impose another lockdown because they don't want to extend the furlough and try to borrow another two or three hundred billion quid to hose the burning economy down with money. On the other hand, increasingly loud screaming from under-pressure hospitals and morgues filling back up with octogenarians. The risk from all this is that they don't administer a single killer blow to the economy, but that they do slowly strangle it to death through salami slicing measures like curfews, more and more picky and restrictive masking rules, and more radical social distancing measures (like dumping the rule of six and just telling people to have no social contact at all with anyone outside their own household, except to attend to essential care needs.)

    Meanwhile, it is reported that Sweden - which continues to refuse to force people to go around in masks - has just registered its *lowest* seven-day average value for new cases for six months. The medical profession seems to have made some meaningful progress in terms of treatments for seriously ill patients, but do epidemiologists honestly have a substantially better idea of how this bloody disease works than they did in March?
    As with the spring, the reality is that if the conditions worsen, there will be a de facto rather than de jure lockdown anyway. This really is a bugger of a virus.

    I am contemplating two weeks self isolation before Christmas so that I can see my folks properly, with a hug, Christmas cheer etc. Anything else will be grim...
    By contrast I am hoping NOT to see my in-laws. Anything else would be grim.
    Every cloud...

    Edit - what’s the penalty of bigamy?

    Two mothers in law.
  • ydoethur said:

    We’ve all been there, Doug. :smile:

    You could have confounded him by pointing out that the dock isn’t technically dry, as they have to hose the hull with water to stop it drying out...

    My proudest moment in the study of history was when, as a schoolboy, my teacher's assessment of an essay I had written was: "Excellent. And not a fact in it."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    We’ve all been there, Doug. :smile:

    You could have confounded him by pointing out that the dock isn’t technically dry, as they have to hose the hull with water to stop it drying out...

    My proudest moment in the study of history was when, as a schoolboy, my teacher's assessment of an essay I had written was: "Excellent. And not a fact in it."
    Postmodernist, was he?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    I don't know what it is about James Delingpole but the way he talks the way he writes what he says - it's all cringeworthy and embarrassing.

    I'm making the mistake of watching something on his "channel".

    It's like he's a socially inept 14-year old boy trapped in a 55-year old man's body, and desperate for both approval and attention.

    I think his main problem is that almost all the people with whom he spent the formative years of his young adulthood have grown up to be vastly more successful than he is. He's got some of the right instincts on culture, but he's also so fundamentally anti-rational as to be maddening.
    Delingpole is the perfect contra-indicator. Whatever position he holds on any issue will inevitably be the exact opposite of the correct one. Kind of like Trump in that regard, but even Trump was right about John Bolton being a war-mongering loon.
    ...which begs the question: why did he appoint him?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT - Laurence Fox is a good example of someone who was previously of the soft metro Left but who had doubts about identity politics.

    The reaction of the radical Left to that having driven him to the alt-right.

    He makes shit up because he has no understanding about history.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51233734

    Whereas the Wokeists' historical knowledge is always perfect and without flaw...

    https://twitter.com/CucuillinSkyes/status/1302829629816930304

    https://twitter.com/MarkBednar/status/1281611428739395586
    Wrong country.
    Sadly the wokeist idiocy has gone global. Plenty of them in the UK too.
    But the teaching of history in the UK has to be better than the US - judging from films, it could hardly be worse ...
    I had a very expensively-educated US friend at uni who thought that the USA created the first English dictionary and knew the name of the American who (in the 19th century!) created it. As if Dr Johnson never happened. But what he actually knew was when the first American dictionary was created. Not sure what the point is of teaching them that.
    It runs both ways. I’ve a degree in history from a reasonably prestigious university and got very sniffy in Boston when I was told that the USS Constitution was the oldest commissioned warship still afloat and loudly claimed it was HMS Victory. I felt a right plonker when the guide pointed out that the Victory is in dry dock,
    We’ve all been there, Doug. :smile:

    You could have confounded him by pointing out that the dock isn’t technically dry, as they have to hose the hull with water to stop it drying out...
    Good point but it is stretching the definition of “afloat” a bit...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT - Laurence Fox is a good example of someone who was previously of the soft metro Left but who had doubts about identity politics.

    The reaction of the radical Left to that having driven him to the alt-right.

    He makes shit up because he has no understanding about history.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51233734

    Whereas the Wokeists' historical knowledge is always perfect and without flaw...

    https://twitter.com/CucuillinSkyes/status/1302829629816930304

    https://twitter.com/MarkBednar/status/1281611428739395586
    Wrong country.
    Sadly the wokeist idiocy has gone global. Plenty of them in the UK too.
    But the teaching of history in the UK has to be better than the US - judging from films, it could hardly be worse ...
    I had a very expensively-educated US friend at uni who thought that the USA created the first English dictionary and knew the name of the American who (in the 19th century!) created it. As if Dr Johnson never happened. But what he actually knew was when the first American dictionary was created. Not sure what the point is of teaching them that.
    It runs both ways. I’ve a degree in history from a reasonably prestigious university and got very sniffy in Boston when I was told that the USS Constitution was the oldest commissioned warship still afloat and loudly claimed it was HMS Victory. I felt a right plonker when the guide pointed out that the Victory is in dry dock,
    We’ve all been there, Doug. :smile:

    You could have confounded him by pointing out that the dock isn’t technically dry, as they have to hose the hull with water to stop it drying out...
    Good point but it is stretching the definition of “afloat” a bit...
    So? You were having a contest on pedantry. You said Victory was older. He said it was in dry dock. You could point out it’s not a dry dock. THat would confuse him.

    Channel your inner Hyufd. You might even enjoy it...
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,755

    I don't know what it is about James Delingpole but the way he talks the way he writes what he says - it's all cringeworthy and embarrassing.

    I'm making the mistake of watching something on his "channel".

    It's like he's a socially inept 14-year old boy trapped in a 55-year old man's body, and desperate for both approval and attention.

    I first came across him writing a music column in (my parents') Telegraph, discovered that he seemed to share my taste and bought a few albums off his recommendations, not all classics, but all quite interesting. I was surprised a few years later when he popped up on the BBC giving 'balance' on a climate change debate (might not surprise many that he's a denier) and he turned out, not only for that, to be a complete bell-end.

    Makes me question my music taste
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT - Laurence Fox is a good example of someone who was previously of the soft metro Left but who had doubts about identity politics.

    The reaction of the radical Left to that having driven him to the alt-right.

    He makes shit up because he has no understanding about history.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51233734

    Whereas the Wokeists' historical knowledge is always perfect and without flaw...

    https://twitter.com/CucuillinSkyes/status/1302829629816930304

    https://twitter.com/MarkBednar/status/1281611428739395586
    Wrong country.
    Sadly the wokeist idiocy has gone global. Plenty of them in the UK too.
    But the teaching of history in the UK has to be better than the US - judging from films, it could hardly be worse ...
    I had a very expensively-educated US friend at uni who thought that the USA created the first English dictionary and knew the name of the American who (in the 19th century!) created it. As if Dr Johnson never happened. But what he actually knew was when the first American dictionary was created. Not sure what the point is of teaching them that.
    It runs both ways. I’ve a degree in history from a reasonably prestigious university and got very sniffy in Boston when I was told that the USS Constitution was the oldest commissioned warship still afloat and loudly claimed it was HMS Victory. I felt a right plonker when the guide pointed out that the Victory is in dry dock,
    We’ve all been there, Doug. :smile:

    You could have confounded him by pointing out that the dock isn’t technically dry, as they have to hose the hull with water to stop it drying out...
    Good point but it is stretching the definition of “afloat” a bit...
    So? You were having a contest on pedantry. You said Victory was older. He said it was in dry dock. You could point out it’s not a dry dock. THat would confuse him.

    Channel your inner Hyufd. You might even enjoy it...
    Channel my inner HYUFD? Goodness...
  • 6 weeks ago I was ridiculed on here by all and sundry for my view that it was a mistake to have enforced mask wearing in UK and that it would lead to an increase in cases. I see tonight a number of posts (including a comment from a GP) raising doubts regarding the mask policy.

    Mask wearing by the general public is such a massive error. We need to get back to social distancing.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    6 weeks ago I was ridiculed on here by all and sundry for my view that it was a mistake to have enforced mask wearing in UK and that it would lead to an increase in cases. I see tonight a number of posts (including a comment from a GP) raising doubts regarding the mask policy.

    Mask wearing by the general public is such a massive error. We need to get back to social distancing.

    As well as wearing masks yes
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT - Laurence Fox is a good example of someone who was previously of the soft metro Left but who had doubts about identity politics.

    The reaction of the radical Left to that having driven him to the alt-right.

    He makes shit up because he has no understanding about history.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51233734

    Whereas the Wokeists' historical knowledge is always perfect and without flaw...

    https://twitter.com/CucuillinSkyes/status/1302829629816930304

    https://twitter.com/MarkBednar/status/1281611428739395586
    Wrong country.
    Sadly the wokeist idiocy has gone global. Plenty of them in the UK too.
    But the teaching of history in the UK has to be better than the US - judging from films, it could hardly be worse ...
    I had a very expensively-educated US friend at uni who thought that the USA created the first English dictionary and knew the name of the American who (in the 19th century!) created it. As if Dr Johnson never happened. But what he actually knew was when the first American dictionary was created. Not sure what the point is of teaching them that.
    It runs both ways. I’ve a degree in history from a reasonably prestigious university and got very sniffy in Boston when I was told that the USS Constitution was the oldest commissioned warship still afloat and loudly claimed it was HMS Victory. I felt a right plonker when the guide pointed out that the Victory is in dry dock,
    We’ve all been there, Doug. :smile:

    You could have confounded him by pointing out that the dock isn’t technically dry, as they have to hose the hull with water to stop it drying out...
    Good point but it is stretching the definition of “afloat” a bit...
    So? You were having a contest on pedantry. You said Victory was older. He said it was in dry dock. You could point out it’s not a dry dock. THat would confuse him.

    Channel your inner Hyufd. You might even enjoy it...
    Channel my inner HYUFD? Goodness...
    There’s a little bit in all of us I think that hates being wrong...
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. It's not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.

    Logically one would've thought that we're not going back to April, because the country can't afford another lockdown and it would reduce the economy to rubble. In practice, however, the Government are such a completely useless shower that you can imagine them getting us back there through an escalating series of measures. Put simply, I think the longer the testing problems go on for, and the hospital numbers creep up despite the new measures - both of which look highly likely to happen - the more panicky and desperate they will become.

    On the one hand, reluctance to impose another lockdown because they don't want to extend the furlough and try to borrow another two or three hundred billion quid to hose the burning economy down with money. On the other hand, increasingly loud screaming from under-pressure hospitals and morgues filling back up with octogenarians. The risk from all this is that they don't administer a single killer blow to the economy, but that they do slowly strangle it to death through salami slicing measures like curfews, more and more picky and restrictive masking rules, and more radical social distancing measures (like dumping the rule of six and just telling people to have no social contact at all with anyone outside their own household, except to attend to essential care needs.)

    Meanwhile, it is reported that Sweden - which continues to refuse to force people to go around in masks - has just registered its *lowest* seven-day average value for new cases for six months. The medical profession seems to have made some meaningful progress in terms of treatments for seriously ill patients, but do epidemiologists honestly have a substantially better idea of how this bloody disease works than they did in March?
    I just do not understand why parliamentarians are not demanding a full and frank debate on the strategy here during which we have a full discussion of Sweden.

    The executive is being left to make a mess of this day after day after day.

    I'd start by asking why Carl Heneghan hasn't been co-opted on to SAGE.
    They would never dare to entertain the possibility that the Swedes might've been onto something. The Government, the devolved administrations and the entirety of the Commons are all up to their necks in lockdown and the vast economic and social cost of it, the continuing restrictions, and the possibility of worse still to come. If there were even the suspicion that the whole policy had been worse than useless then it would completely destroy any remaining public confidence in Britain's governance and practically all of the people behind it. Everything would burn except the Monarchy.

    The current mechanism of imposing draconian restrictions until the problem subsides, easing them and then tightening them again in seemingly endless cycles until a vaccine or a cure is found *might* be the least worst option, but if it turns out not to be then the likelihood of the people who've been enforcing it for all this time admitting the fact is absolutely zero.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    A GP writes:

    "I feel there has been definite “mission creep” in our country’s response to this Covid situation. Initially we were asked to stay home to “flatten the curve” and avoid overwhelming the NHS. Now we no longer concern ourselves with hospital admissions or deaths. We are only interested in “cases” which are detected using flawed methods. We have used case data to implement mandatory masks on public transport, shops and schools with a complete absence of evidence for their effectiveness. Now we are no longer allowed to socialise in groups larger than six. Where is this all going to end? What is our aim with these policies?"

    https://lockdownsceptics.org/

    This is precisely what I was saying on here a few nights ago. We started off with flattening the sombrero and now we are in some kind of unspoken zero-covid policy.

    Who is in charge of the strategy and what is it? And how do we get out of this if there is no vaccine for another year or two?

    We should not allow ourselves to be distracted by Johnson's very dead cat of a WA agreement mess from asking these questions.

    More than that, we started out not even aiming to flatten any curve at all. Back at the start of January.

    Then covid came along to the UK. The “flatten the curve” strategy was because they thought at the time that fatalities and serious long-term effects would be rare, so the point was to avoid hospitals being overloaded. Then the fatalities turned out to be far higher than anticipated and the “let it rip in a controlled fashion” strategy was abandoned.

    But there are still the ones who prefer the surrender-to-the-virus idea (letting it run through until it runs out of victims is just that, of course), and they try to pretend that the change of strategy was arcane and confusing, rather than the subject of announcements in mid-March.
  • Scott_xP said:
    It's not even a new cartoon - just a retweet of one that appeared in December 2019 after the General Election. Which makes it look even more mental in that context.
    The willingness of some Germans to compare Britain voting to leave the EU (and then having the audacity to carry it through) to their own Nazi past is quite gobsmacking.
  • https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. It's not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.

    Logically one would've thought that we're not going back to April, because the country can't afford another lockdown and it would reduce the economy to rubble. In practice, however, the Government are such a completely useless shower that you can imagine them getting us back there through an escalating series of measures. Put simply, I think the longer the testing problems go on for, and the hospital numbers creep up despite the new measures - both of which look highly likely to happen - the more panicky and desperate they will become.

    On the one hand, reluctance to impose another lockdown because they don't want to extend the furlough and try to borrow another two or three hundred billion quid to hose the burning economy down with money. On the other hand, increasingly loud screaming from under-pressure hospitals and morgues filling back up with octogenarians. The risk from all this is that they don't administer a single killer blow to the economy, but that they do slowly strangle it to death through salami slicing measures like curfews, more and more picky and restrictive masking rules, and more radical social distancing measures (like dumping the rule of six and just telling people to have no social contact at all with anyone outside their own household, except to attend to essential care needs.)

    Meanwhile, it is reported that Sweden - which continues to refuse to force people to go around in masks - has just registered its *lowest* seven-day average value for new cases for six months. The medical profession seems to have made some meaningful progress in terms of treatments for seriously ill patients, but do epidemiologists honestly have a substantially better idea of how this bloody disease works than they did in March?
    I just do not understand why parliamentarians are not demanding a full and frank debate on the strategy here during which we have a full discussion of Sweden.

    The executive is being left to make a mess of this day after day after day.

    I'd start by asking why Carl Heneghan hasn't been co-opted on to SAGE.
    They would never dare to entertain the possibility that the Swedes might've been onto something. The Government, the devolved administrations and the entirety of the Commons are all up to their necks in lockdown and the vast economic and social cost of it, the continuing restrictions, and the possibility of worse still to come. If there were even the suspicion that the whole policy had been worse than useless then it would completely destroy any remaining public confidence in Britain's governance and practically all of the people behind it. Everything would burn except the Monarchy.

    The current mechanism of imposing draconian restrictions until the problem subsides, easing them and then tightening them again in seemingly endless cycles until a vaccine or a cure is found *might* be the least worst option, but if it turns out not to be then the likelihood of the people who've been enforcing it for all this time admitting the fact is absolutely zero.
    Well said.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT - Laurence Fox is a good example of someone who was previously of the soft metro Left but who had doubts about identity politics.

    The reaction of the radical Left to that having driven him to the alt-right.

    He makes shit up because he has no understanding about history.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51233734

    Whereas the Wokeists' historical knowledge is always perfect and without flaw...

    https://twitter.com/CucuillinSkyes/status/1302829629816930304

    https://twitter.com/MarkBednar/status/1281611428739395586
    Wrong country.
    Sadly the wokeist idiocy has gone global. Plenty of them in the UK too.
    But the teaching of history in the UK has to be better than the US - judging from films, it could hardly be worse ...
    I had a very expensively-educated US friend at uni who thought that the USA created the first English dictionary and knew the name of the American who (in the 19th century!) created it. As if Dr Johnson never happened. But what he actually knew was when the first American dictionary was created. Not sure what the point is of teaching them that.
    It runs both ways. I’ve a degree in history from a reasonably prestigious university and got very sniffy in Boston when I was told that the USS Constitution was the oldest commissioned warship still afloat and loudly claimed it was HMS Victory. I felt a right plonker when the guide pointed out that the Victory is in dry dock,
    We’ve all been there, Doug. :smile:

    You could have confounded him by pointing out that the dock isn’t technically dry, as they have to hose the hull with water to stop it drying out...
    Good point but it is stretching the definition of “afloat” a bit...
    So? You were having a contest on pedantry. You said Victory was older. He said it was in dry dock. You could point out it’s not a dry dock. THat would confuse him.

    Channel your inner Hyufd. You might even enjoy it...
    Channel my inner HYUFD? Goodness...
    There’s a little bit in all of us I think that hates being wrong...
    You get used to it with repeated practice - I know I have! :wink:
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    My take is that what the government is doing on the rule of six very much matches the 2008 bank bailouts in attitude. Now they've had time to look at it, they've opted for household lockdown - save all interaction that puts money into a businesses pocket and bread on their tables, but limit anything that is purely household. They've evolved here via many iterations, but for all its strangenesses it is fairly consistent and it does have a logic and I'm not against the basic idea behind this.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Are people still eating out to help out now there is no subsidy?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    FaPT: Ed Miliband is purely and simply turning into the new William Hague..
  • https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. It's not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.

    Logically one would've thought that we're not going back to April, because the country can't afford another lockdown and it would reduce the economy to rubble. In practice, however, the Government are such a completely useless shower that you can imagine them getting us back there through an escalating series of measures. Put simply, I think the longer the testing problems go on for, and the hospital numbers creep up despite the new measures - both of which look highly likely to happen - the more panicky and desperate they will become.

    On the one hand, reluctance to impose another lockdown because they don't want to extend the furlough and try to borrow another two or three hundred billion quid to hose the burning economy down with money. On the other hand, increasingly loud screaming from under-pressure hospitals and morgues filling back up with octogenarians. The risk from all this is that they don't administer a single killer blow to the economy, but that they do slowly strangle it to death through salami slicing measures like curfews, more and more picky and restrictive masking rules, and more radical social distancing measures (like dumping the rule of six and just telling people to have no social contact at all with anyone outside their own household, except to attend to essential care needs.)

    Meanwhile, it is reported that Sweden - which continues to refuse to force people to go around in masks - has just registered its *lowest* seven-day average value for new cases for six months. The medical profession seems to have made some meaningful progress in terms of treatments for seriously ill patients, but do epidemiologists honestly have a substantially better idea of how this bloody disease works than they did in March?
    I just do not understand why parliamentarians are not demanding a full and frank debate on the strategy here during which we have a full discussion of Sweden.

    The executive is being left to make a mess of this day after day after day.

    I'd start by asking why Carl Heneghan hasn't been co-opted on to SAGE.
    They would never dare to entertain the possibility that the Swedes might've been onto something. The Government, the devolved administrations and the entirety of the Commons are all up to their necks in lockdown and the vast economic and social cost of it, the continuing restrictions, and the possibility of worse still to come. If there were even the suspicion that the whole policy had been worse than useless then it would completely destroy any remaining public confidence in Britain's governance and practically all of the people behind it. Everything would burn except the Monarchy.

    The current mechanism of imposing draconian restrictions until the problem subsides, easing them and then tightening them again in seemingly endless cycles until a vaccine or a cure is found *might* be the least worst option, but if it turns out not to be then the likelihood of the people who've been enforcing it for all this time admitting the fact is absolutely zero.
    I think that's overstating the case. They'd just think the Government made a wrong decision. Far better to revise the policy on the basis of new information (if there is new information) than double down.
  • nichomar said:

    Are people still eating out to help out now there is no subsidy?

    I ate out on a Thursday during the Eat Out campaign. Deliberately. Not only was I giving some dosh to the owner on a new slow night, but as nobody else was there, we ate in relative covid-free security. Well worth an extra £5 each or so on the meal.
  • Carnyx said:

    Interestingly, the audience are all elderly or at best middle aged. A very [edit] sharply emphasised detail.
    Shocking that they should make crude allusions to Nazism and WWII. That's our job!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Pro_Rata said:

    My take is that what the government is doing on the rule of six very much matches the 2008 bank bailouts in attitude. Now they've had time to look at it, they've opted for household lockdown - save all interaction that puts money into a businesses pocket and bread on their tables, but limit anything that is purely household. They've evolved here via many iterations, but for all its strangenesses it is fairly consistent and it does have a logic and I'm not against the basic idea behind this.

    That's a slightly cynical take, which probably has some basis. Also the number of household interactions is probably a lot higher in total than commercial ones. Given restrictions are made by category not incidents, you can do a lot more virus suppression by banning household visits. Also those household visits won't normally be risk assessed and mitigated unlike most businesses. Granny doesn't wipe down every surface with sanitiser and erect plastic screens.

  • But Dr Johnson wasn't criticising patriotism. His meaning was that even after all other virtues (honour, chivalry etc.) had been abandoned, patriotism was the last one to go. Most people who quote him now just use it to criticise the notion of patriotism and patriots.

    I understand him to mean that appeals to patriotism should not be taken as excuses for bad behaviour - breaking the law, to take a random example. It's not against patriotism, but rather its use as a cover.
    If Dr Johnson had said "A scoundrel's last resort is patriotism" it would have been easier for later generations to understand that he was talking about the behaviour of scoundrels, not about the moral worth of patriotism. ISTR making this point in a 6th-form debate about 52 years ago!
    Dr Johnson: good at words, crap at word-order.
    Takes a brave soul indeed to criticize Samuel Johnson's English!

    Again, the good doctor used a witty turn of phrase to make a POLITICAL attack against Pitt the Elder, Earl of Chatham. When SJ uttered the words in 1775, the noble earl had spent the previous forty years leading the "Patriot Whigs".

    The great man (also Dr. Johnson the Lesser) had no problem coming up with an apt sound bite! He knew what he wanted to say, and said it well - so well that we are still saying it, albeit in much different context.

    OR is it?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. It's not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.

    Logically one would've thought that we're not going back to April, because the country can't afford another lockdown and it would reduce the economy to rubble. In practice, however, the Government are such a completely useless shower that you can imagine them getting us back there through an escalating series of measures. Put simply, I think the longer the testing problems go on for, and the hospital numbers creep up despite the new measures - both of which look highly likely to happen - the more panicky and desperate they will become.

    On the one hand, reluctance to impose another lockdown because they don't want to extend the furlough and try to borrow another two or three hundred billion quid to hose the burning economy down with money. On the other hand, increasingly loud screaming from under-pressure hospitals and morgues filling back up with octogenarians. The risk from all this is that they don't administer a single killer blow to the economy, but that they do slowly strangle it to death through salami slicing measures like curfews, more and more picky and restrictive masking rules, and more radical social distancing measures (like dumping the rule of six and just telling people to have no social contact at all with anyone outside their own household, except to attend to essential care needs.)

    Meanwhile, it is reported that Sweden - which continues to refuse to force people to go around in masks - has just registered its *lowest* seven-day average value for new cases for six months. The medical profession seems to have made some meaningful progress in terms of treatments for seriously ill patients, but do epidemiologists honestly have a substantially better idea of how this bloody disease works than they did in March?
    I just do not understand why parliamentarians are not demanding a full and frank debate on the strategy here during which we have a full discussion of Sweden.

    The executive is being left to make a mess of this day after day after day.

    I'd start by asking why Carl Heneghan hasn't been co-opted on to SAGE.
    They would never dare to entertain the possibility that the Swedes might've been onto something.
    I wish we locked down as much as the Swedes, banning international flights from outside the EEA early, banning care Holm visits, both of which are still in effect.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Pro_Rata said:

    FaPT: Ed Miliband is purely and simply turning into the new William Hague..

    It’s good to see some depth emerging in the shadow cabinet. It can never just be about the leader. It’s like playing chess with only the queen.
  • nichomar said:

    Are people still eating out to help out now there is no subsidy?

    I did not eat out even with the subsidy. There is a pandemic on .....
  • 6 weeks ago I was ridiculed on here by all and sundry for my view that it was a mistake to have enforced mask wearing in UK and that it would lead to an increase in cases. I see tonight a number of posts (including a comment from a GP) raising doubts regarding the mask policy.

    Mask wearing by the general public is such a massive error. We need to get back to social distancing.

    The lockdown worked.
  • Scott_xP said:
    It's not even a new cartoon - just a retweet of one that appeared in December 2019 after the General Election. Which makes it look even more mental in that context.
    The willingness of some Germans to compare Britain voting to leave the EU (and then having the audacity to carry it through) to their own Nazi past is quite gobsmacking.
    When you have a govt that is passing bills to make itself immune to the Rule of Law, abrogating its own treaties, creating an informer network and talking of curfews, the comparison does not look all that much of a stretch.

  • It's not even a new cartoon - just a retweet of one that appeared in December 2019 after the General Election. Which makes it look even more mental in that context.

    Or prescient.
    Not entirely prescient by December.

    By then, we'd had the Purge, we'd had the Prorogation. Both of which, when you stop and think, or look from outside, were utterly bonkers.

    Expelling Churchill's grandson, and the most substantial PM-we-never-had, and a recent Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the engaging future hope because they voted against you? With Johnson's reputation for loyalty?

    Closing down Parliament because you can? And shrugging off a unanimous condemnation from the Supreme Court, headed by the excellent Girton Lady with the spider brooch?

    This is not normal.

    And a plurality of the Great British Public- as is their democratic right- endorsed this with an 80 seat majority.

    And other nations- as is their sovereign right- think we've completely lost our national marbles. They might be wrong, but it's not easy to argue with them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited September 2020

    nichomar said:

    Are people still eating out to help out now there is no subsidy?

    I ate out on a Thursday during the Eat Out campaign. Deliberately. Not only was I giving some dosh to the owner on a new slow night, but as nobody else was there, we ate in relative covid-free security. Well worth an extra £5 each or so on the meal.
    Only an extra £5 each? Those were cheap meals then!

    But seriously - admire your sentiments - we did the same (it cost us a £10 Rishi each though)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137

    6 weeks ago I was ridiculed on here by all and sundry for my view that it was a mistake to have enforced mask wearing in UK and that it would lead to an increase in cases. I see tonight a number of posts (including a comment from a GP) raising doubts regarding the mask policy.

    Mask wearing by the general public is such a massive error. We need to get back to social distancing.

    We need to do both, South Korea has worn masks from the start and has far fewer cases than Sweden despite a far bigger population while also having a limited lockdown
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    6 weeks ago I was ridiculed on here by all and sundry for my view that it was a mistake to have enforced mask wearing in UK and that it would lead to an increase in cases. I see tonight a number of posts (including a comment from a GP) raising doubts regarding the mask policy.

    Mask wearing by the general public is such a massive error. We need to get back to social distancing.

    90% plus compliance in Asda in Fratton at lunchtime today.

    People are getting used to wearing them. So long as everyone continues with the other measures too, it can only be a positive.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    nichomar said:

    Are people still eating out to help out now there is no subsidy?

    I did not eat out even with the subsidy. There is a pandemic on .....

    Here in Dorset it has felt pretty safe with low infection rates and good social distancing in the restaurants we've visited.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556


    But Dr Johnson wasn't criticising patriotism. His meaning was that even after all other virtues (honour, chivalry etc.) had been abandoned, patriotism was the last one to go. Most people who quote him now just use it to criticise the notion of patriotism and patriots.

    I understand him to mean that appeals to patriotism should not be taken as excuses for bad behaviour - breaking the law, to take a random example. It's not against patriotism, but rather its use as a cover.
    If Dr Johnson had said "A scoundrel's last resort is patriotism" it would have been easier for later generations to understand that he was talking about the behaviour of scoundrels, not about the moral worth of patriotism. ISTR making this point in a 6th-form debate about 52 years ago!
    Dr Johnson: good at words, crap at word-order.
    Takes a brave soul indeed to criticize Samuel Johnson's English!

    Again, the good doctor used a witty turn of phrase to make a POLITICAL attack against Pitt the Elder, Earl of Chatham. When SJ uttered the words in 1775, the noble earl had spent the previous forty years leading the "Patriot Whigs".

    The great man (also Dr. Johnson the Lesser) had no problem coming up with an apt sound bite! He knew what he wanted to say, and said it well - so well that we are still saying it, albeit in much different context.

    OR is it?
    I wasn't being too serious, though I do think Boswell himself had the right attitude: 'I profess to write, not his panegyrick, which must be all praise, but his Life; which, great and good as he was, must not be supposed to be entirely perfect...'
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Scott_xP said:
    It's not even a new cartoon - just a retweet of one that appeared in December 2019 after the General Election. Which makes it look even more mental in that context.
    The willingness of some Germans to compare Britain voting to leave the EU (and then having the audacity to carry it through) to their own Nazi past is quite gobsmacking.
    When you have a govt that is passing bills to make itself immune to the Rule of Law, abrogating its own treaties, creating an informer network and talking of curfews, the comparison does not look all that much of a stretch.
    To be fair they haven't actually managed to pass the Enabling Act (oops) Internal Markets Act yet.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. It's not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.

    Logically one would've thought that we're not going back to April, because the country can't afford another lockdown and it would reduce the economy to rubble. In practice, however, the Government are such a completely useless shower that you can imagine them getting us back there through an escalating series of measures. Put simply, I think the longer the testing problems go on for, and the hospital numbers creep up despite the new measures - both of which look highly likely to happen - the more panicky and desperate they will become.

    On the one hand, reluctance to impose another lockdown because they don't want to extend the furlough and try to borrow another two or three hundred billion quid to hose the burning economy down with money. On the other hand, increasingly loud screaming from under-pressure hospitals and morgues filling back up with octogenarians. The risk from all this is that they don't administer a single killer blow to the economy, but that they do slowly strangle it to death through salami slicing measures like curfews, more and more picky and restrictive masking rules, and more radical social distancing measures (like dumping the rule of six and just telling people to have no social contact at all with anyone outside their own household, except to attend to essential care needs.)

    Meanwhile, it is reported that Sweden - which continues to refuse to force people to go around in masks - has just registered its *lowest* seven-day average value for new cases for six months. The medical profession seems to have made some meaningful progress in terms of treatments for seriously ill patients, but do epidemiologists honestly have a substantially better idea of how this bloody disease works than they did in March?
    I just do not understand why parliamentarians are not demanding a full and frank debate on the strategy here during which we have a full discussion of Sweden.

    The executive is being left to make a mess of this day after day after day.

    I'd start by asking why Carl Heneghan hasn't been co-opted on to SAGE.
    They would never dare to entertain the possibility that the Swedes might've been onto something. The Government, the devolved administrations and the entirety of the Commons are all up to their necks in lockdown and the vast economic and social cost of it, the continuing restrictions, and the possibility of worse still to come. If there were even the suspicion that the whole policy had been worse than useless then it would completely destroy any remaining public confidence in Britain's governance and practically all of the people behind it. Everything would burn except the Monarchy.

    The current mechanism of imposing draconian restrictions until the problem subsides, easing them and then tightening them again in seemingly endless cycles until a vaccine or a cure is found *might* be the least worst option, but if it turns out not to be then the likelihood of the people who've been enforcing it for all this time admitting the fact is absolutely zero.
    This is just wrong. No UK government would have got away with doing a Sweden when no other country in the world was; the pressure to u turn as the numbers rose wouldhave been irresistible. Not that doing a Sweden was as different as people think it was.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898

    6 weeks ago I was ridiculed on here by all and sundry for my view that it was a mistake to have enforced mask wearing in UK and that it would lead to an increase in cases. I see tonight a number of posts (including a comment from a GP) raising doubts regarding the mask policy.

    Mask wearing by the general public is such a massive error. We need to get back to social distancing.

    I ridiculed you earlier for continuing this ludicrous assertion there is "enforced mask wearing" in the UK. The law abiding people of rural Hampshire may be wearing masks but in inner London they aren't and the whole social distancing/mark wearing ethos is breaking down and to be fair has been since Easter.

    The consequence of that has been an increase in cases - as others have pointed out, where mask wearing is more general such as in South Korea, case numbers remain low.
  • Davidson isn't going to last very long on YouTube with this sort of racist "comedy"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8736507/Jim-Davidson-sparks-Twitter-fury-racist-YouTube-rant.html
  • IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-could-be-heading-for-another-lockdown-if-the-rule-of-six-fails-to-work

    If you want to go to the pub or have any life at all that's worth living, I suggest you do it now. It's not going to last. We're going into lockdown again.

    Logically one would've thought that we're not going back to April, because the country can't afford another lockdown and it would reduce the economy to rubble. In practice, however, the Government are such a completely useless shower that you can imagine them getting us back there through an escalating series of measures. Put simply, I think the longer the testing problems go on for, and the hospital numbers creep up despite the new measures - both of which look highly likely to happen - the more panicky and desperate they will become.

    On the one hand, reluctance to impose another lockdown because they don't want to extend the furlough and try to borrow another two or three hundred billion quid to hose the burning economy down with money. On the other hand, increasingly loud screaming from under-pressure hospitals and morgues filling back up with octogenarians. The risk from all this is that they don't administer a single killer blow to the economy, but that they do slowly strangle it to death through salami slicing measures like curfews, more and more picky and restrictive masking rules, and more radical social distancing measures (like dumping the rule of six and just telling people to have no social contact at all with anyone outside their own household, except to attend to essential care needs.)

    Meanwhile, it is reported that Sweden - which continues to refuse to force people to go around in masks - has just registered its *lowest* seven-day average value for new cases for six months. The medical profession seems to have made some meaningful progress in terms of treatments for seriously ill patients, but do epidemiologists honestly have a substantially better idea of how this bloody disease works than they did in March?
    I just do not understand why parliamentarians are not demanding a full and frank debate on the strategy here during which we have a full discussion of Sweden.

    The executive is being left to make a mess of this day after day after day.

    I'd start by asking why Carl Heneghan hasn't been co-opted on to SAGE.
    They would never dare to entertain the possibility that the Swedes might've been onto something. The Government, the devolved administrations and the entirety of the Commons are all up to their necks in lockdown and the vast economic and social cost of it, the continuing restrictions, and the possibility of worse still to come. If there were even the suspicion that the whole policy had been worse than useless then it would completely destroy any remaining public confidence in Britain's governance and practically all of the people behind it. Everything would burn except the Monarchy.

    The current mechanism of imposing draconian restrictions until the problem subsides, easing them and then tightening them again in seemingly endless cycles until a vaccine or a cure is found *might* be the least worst option, but if it turns out not to be then the likelihood of the people who've been enforcing it for all this time admitting the fact is absolutely zero.
    This is just wrong. No UK government would have got away with doing a Sweden when no other country in the world was; the pressure to u turn as the numbers rose wouldhave been irresistible. Not that doing a Sweden was as different as people think it was.
    And now? Now we have Sweden as an example.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited September 2020

    6 weeks ago I was ridiculed on here by all and sundry for my view that it was a mistake to have enforced mask wearing in UK and that it would lead to an increase in cases. I see tonight a number of posts (including a comment from a GP) raising doubts regarding the mask policy.

    Mask wearing by the general public is such a massive error. We need to get back to social distancing.

    You were ridiculed for failing to observe that correlation does not always imply causation, and even when it does one has to ask is a causing b or b causing a?

    We don't need to get back to social distancing because we never left it. Your theory that mask wearing subverts it looks wrong to me. There's those that both wear masks and observe distancing, and twats who do neither.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,411
    Support our troops?
    As they are voting for the other guy that seems a good sentiment.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,103
    edited September 2020
    The story is rather disingenuous. If you go on shutterstock and search military, its the first result...that is clearly what happened.

    and it isn't even a real photo, its a 3d mock up made by an artist.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208


    But Dr Johnson wasn't criticising patriotism. His meaning was that even after all other virtues (honour, chivalry etc.) had been abandoned, patriotism was the last one to go. Most people who quote him now just use it to criticise the notion of patriotism and patriots.

    I understand him to mean that appeals to patriotism should not be taken as excuses for bad behaviour - breaking the law, to take a random example. It's not against patriotism, but rather its use as a cover.
    If Dr Johnson had said "A scoundrel's last resort is patriotism" it would have been easier for later generations to understand that he was talking about the behaviour of scoundrels, not about the moral worth of patriotism. ISTR making this point in a 6th-form debate about 52 years ago!
    Dr Johnson: good at words, crap at word-order.
    Takes a brave soul indeed to criticize Samuel Johnson's English!

    Again, the good doctor used a witty turn of phrase to make a POLITICAL attack against Pitt the Elder, Earl of Chatham. When SJ uttered the words in 1775, the noble earl had spent the previous forty years leading the "Patriot Whigs".

    The great man (also Dr. Johnson the Lesser) had no problem coming up with an apt sound bite! He knew what he wanted to say, and said it well - so well that we are still saying it, albeit in much different context.

    OR is it?
    Samuel Johnson's meaning seems clear to me, so I don't agree with @Alphabet_Soup and @BluestBlue's critique.

    Something has just struck me. James Boswell both quoted Johnson then qualified Johnson's remarks to say that he wasn't talking about sincere partiotism. Boswell and Johnson didn't see eye to eye on politics despite being firm friends. Johnson was a high Tory while Boswell was a Whig presumably of the patriotic sort that Johnson despised. It would be in Boswell's character to quote something deprecating to himself. Boswell was completely fascinated by himself but also very self-aware.
  • Take this with a pinch of salt, purely anecdotal... A friend of my mother's son-in-law came down with Covid-like symptoms last week. He had it earlier in the year - confirmed with antibody test. Troubling if true. Obviously, a sample size of one, but will be interesting to see if any similar stories come to light over the coming months.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    The PB.com new look is a great improvement but the loading speeds definitely seem to be slower... which would not be an issue but AFAIK the only way to see new comments is to re-load the page.

    I am not complaining - PB is a free service after all but if anyone has any suggestions on changes I could mak to speed things up, I'd be obliged.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,411
    In the interests of balance, I feel that lockdown, the range and pace of loosening, and the subsequent tightening has been got broadly correct.
    Just about the only thing, but nonetheless...
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT - Laurence Fox is a good example of someone who was previously of the soft metro Left but who had doubts about identity politics.

    The reaction of the radical Left to that having driven him to the alt-right.

    He makes shit up because he has no understanding about history.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51233734

    Whereas the Wokeists' historical knowledge is always perfect and without flaw...

    https://twitter.com/CucuillinSkyes/status/1302829629816930304

    https://twitter.com/MarkBednar/status/1281611428739395586
    Wrong country.
    Sadly the wokeist idiocy has gone global. Plenty of them in the UK too.
    But the teaching of history in the UK has to be better than the US - judging from films, it could hardly be worse ...
    It’s brilliantly taught. All history teachers in the UK are totally awesome and deserve double the pay.
    A persuasive point.
    Though what went wrong (for example) with @TSE and @Morris_Dancer ?
    Oi! My historical knowledge is awesome, I have an 'A' in A Level history when A Levels were difficult.
    They were already a lot easier in the 1990s than prior to the late 1980s!
  • Scott_xP said:
    It's not even a new cartoon - just a retweet of one that appeared in December 2019 after the General Election. Which makes it look even more mental in that context.
    The willingness of some Germans to compare Britain voting to leave the EU (and then having the audacity to carry it through) to their own Nazi past is quite gobsmacking.
    When you have a govt that is passing bills to make itself immune to the Rule of Law, abrogating its own treaties, creating an informer network and talking of curfews, the comparison does not look all that much of a stretch.
    I think you'll find it does.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Davidson isn't going to last very long on YouTube with this sort of racist "comedy"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8736507/Jim-Davidson-sparks-Twitter-fury-racist-YouTube-rant.html

    Bloody wokeists! Jim's a great guy, just ask Alison Holloway.
  • Davidson isn't going to last very long on YouTube with this sort of racist "comedy"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8736507/Jim-Davidson-sparks-Twitter-fury-racist-YouTube-rant.html

    Bloody wokeists! Jim's a great guy, just ask Alison Holloway.
    The wokeists are currently too busy burning JK Rowling's latest book.
This discussion has been closed.