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  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 35,027

    I would not at all be surprised if Boris promised a referendum on capital punishment at this point.

    Cummings wrote in his blog that he wanted a referendum on leaving the ECHR.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,241

    I would not at all be surprised if Boris promised a referendum on capital punishment at this point.

    Gay marriage too.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,636

    Scott_xP said:
    I think it's likely that every living former PM thinks this move by Cummings and Johnson is a disaster.
    ...and all the dead ones too!
    Their supposed heroine The Blessed Margaret would have been against the WA change breaking international agreement. Rule of law was very important to her.

    Johnson isn't a conservative.
    A front-man for a faceless, un-elected anarchist who has taken control of the country. It is what Brexit was designed for.

    No. Boris is a goon. An idiot - a useful idiot in Lenin's meaning of the phrase.
  • Having been born white working class and Having grown up in the white working class, I know the white working class is not what the Tories think it is.
  • I would not at all be surprised if Boris promised a referendum on capital punishment at this point.

    That will definitely happen. No doubt about it.

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,636
    dixiedean said:

    I would not at all be surprised if Boris promised a referendum on capital punishment at this point.

    Gay marriage too.
    Like all dictators, he needs to outlaw the Opposition. Everything else is a distraction.
  • No vaccine before the second wave ...

    Oxford’s Sir John Bell: ‘We’re not going to beat the second wave’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/09/12/oxfords-sir-john-bell-not-going-beat-second-wave/
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 5,499
    dixiedean said:

    I would not at all be surprised if Boris promised a referendum on capital punishment at this point.

    Gay marriage too.
    No. That’s far-fetched, and I don’t think there’s any votes in it.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 257
    I dread to think what will be left of the UKs reputation after 4 more years of this disgusting government .
  • I would not at all be surprised if Boris promised a referendum on capital punishment at this point.

    I have long assumed that is in Cummings's plan. It is the issue most correlated with Leave/Remain and so the obvious means of rallying the same coalition of support. I will leave the country at that point.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 15,119

    Interesting..

    "Some critics are imploring Theresa May to take the lead in opposing the plans, to be debated in the Commons this week. One former minister said there was “exasperation” among Tories and that “the mood had changed”, even among some pro-Brexit new MPs."

    Unlike last year, Cummings and Johnson can't purge these.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/12/top-lawyers-slam-suella-braverman-for-wrecking-uks-reputation

    Why can't he purge them???
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,636

    Interesting..

    "Some critics are imploring Theresa May to take the lead in opposing the plans, to be debated in the Commons this week. One former minister said there was “exasperation” among Tories and that “the mood had changed”, even among some pro-Brexit new MPs."

    Unlike last year, Cummings and Johnson can't purge these.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/12/top-lawyers-slam-suella-braverman-for-wrecking-uks-reputation

    Why can't he purge them???
    If there are 41 of them ..... ;)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,279
    LadyG said:

    Hardly news.

    It is interesting, however, how many wealthy Scots residents of northwest London, England, are in favour or Scottish Independence.

    "Agreeing with the majority of the Scottish population, Ewan McGregor has voiced his opposition to Brexit. Although opposed to Scottish independence from the United Kingdom in the 2014 Scottish referendum, he later declared during an interview in 2017 that he would have voted for Scotland to leave the UK if he had been able to cast his vote the day after the UK left the EU.

    McGregor divides his time living between Los Angeles, California and St John's Wood, London."


    For instance, I have not forgotten actor Brian Cox's stern avowal in favour of Scotch separatism, broadcast from the mean streets of...... Primrose Hill. Where he lives.


    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/alastair-campbell-meets-brian-cox-to-discuss-brexit-scottish-independence-and-swearing-1-6512500
  • Lib Dems have a real opportunity to do a reverse 2019 Boris Johnson and steal voters on the centre right
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 5,499
    edited September 12

    Interesting..

    "Some critics are imploring Theresa May to take the lead in opposing the plans, to be debated in the Commons this week. One former minister said there was “exasperation” among Tories and that “the mood had changed”, even among some pro-Brexit new MPs."

    Unlike last year, Cummings and Johnson can't purge these.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/12/top-lawyers-slam-suella-braverman-for-wrecking-uks-reputation

    Why can't he purge them???
    If there are 41 of them ..... ;)
    I doubt there will be more than a handful.
    Less than 5.

    Cummings has the whole party wrapped around his finger, and most are too stupid to even realise it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,241

    Lib Dems have a real opportunity to do a reverse 2019 Boris Johnson and steal voters on the centre right

    Yep. No point in doing a Charlie Kennedy. Starmer sits near there.
    A fiscally responsible low tax party of internationalism and personal liberty is where all the space is.
    German FDP in other words.
  • Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    Hardly news.

    It is interesting, however, how many wealthy Scots residents of northwest London, England, are in favour or Scottish Independence.

    "Agreeing with the majority of the Scottish population, Ewan McGregor has voiced his opposition to Brexit. Although opposed to Scottish independence from the United Kingdom in the 2014 Scottish referendum, he later declared during an interview in 2017 that he would have voted for Scotland to leave the UK if he had been able to cast his vote the day after the UK left the EU.

    McGregor divides his time living between Los Angeles, California and St John's Wood, London."


    For instance, I have not forgotten actor Brian Cox's stern avowal in favour of Scotch separatism, broadcast from the mean streets of...... Primrose Hill. Where he lives.


    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/alastair-campbell-meets-brian-cox-to-discuss-brexit-scottish-independence-and-swearing-1-6512500
    This SE London based Scot would be happy to cast a vote for independence. The UK is being flushed into a sewer by Cummings et al, who wouldn't vote to escape?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 5,499

    Lib Dems have a real opportunity to do a reverse 2019 Boris Johnson and steal voters on the centre right

    The corona rules, including the proposed “covid marshals”, the threatened fines, and the snitch’s hotline, we’re enacted by statutory instrument.

    Amazing to think they have not been in front of Parliament.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,241

    dixiedean said:

    I would not at all be surprised if Boris promised a referendum on capital punishment at this point.

    Gay marriage too.
    No. That’s far-fetched, and I don’t think there’s any votes in it.
    You don't?
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 948
    Pagan2 said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Good move. They need to do this. Total War now. Tear down the Wall
    What Wall?

    You'll not be happy until the fascists take over!
    Cummings has grasped (long before many others) that Brexit is Revolutionary. This is not a normal political change. This is a kind of plebiscitary coup. Everything is up for grabs.

    We need to go for as much independence as possible. Renounce almost all ties with Europe, legal and political. Void them. Purge them. Suffer the consequences and go indy. It will be painful but Covid is far more painful, so the trauma will be masked.

    Let's do it. Cut all our ties. Slice them away. Fuck the hideous EU elite, they are a nightmarish cabal of infant-blood-drinkers.

    Out, and into the world. Pure and true.
    Revolutions are tricky things, you can well end up with total twats in charge if you arent careful. Boris and Cummings need to go frankly before we tread any further down this line of Boris diktats being made law with no scrutiny.

    Hell I never thought I would vote labour but I would if there is an election tomorrow because under Boris the Tories are certainly showing their authoritarian streak
    They may have stormed the Bastille, but the Reign of Terror is coming...
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 11,508
    edited September 12
    Death penalty is utterly gross. We don't kill people, I will consider leaving the country if that becomes law.
  • Centre right Lib Dems is the route to 100 of their target seats.

    Starmer on the centre left, Lib Dems on the centre right, not fishing for the same voters could be an absolute game changer. Get rid of the Tories for good.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 5,499
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    I would not at all be surprised if Boris promised a referendum on capital punishment at this point.

    Gay marriage too.
    No. That’s far-fetched, and I don’t think there’s any votes in it.
    You don't?
    Not really, no.
    I don’t think it works as a wedge issue like immigration, etc - it’s too broadly accepted now.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 49,660

    Death penalty is utterly gross. We don't kill people, I will consider leaving the country if that becomes law.

    There's a suggestion it is coming back?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 15,119

    Interesting..

    "Some critics are imploring Theresa May to take the lead in opposing the plans, to be debated in the Commons this week. One former minister said there was “exasperation” among Tories and that “the mood had changed”, even among some pro-Brexit new MPs."

    Unlike last year, Cummings and Johnson can't purge these.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/12/top-lawyers-slam-suella-braverman-for-wrecking-uks-reputation

    Why can't he purge them???
    If there are 41 of them ..... ;)
    Sorry, still not getting it
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,241

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    I would not at all be surprised if Boris promised a referendum on capital punishment at this point.

    Gay marriage too.
    No. That’s far-fetched, and I don’t think there’s any votes in it.
    You don't?
    Not really, no.
    I don’t think it works as a wedge issue like immigration, etc - it’s too broadly accepted now.
    And yet it was so recently cited as a trigger for defections from Cameron's Tories and a driver in the rise of UKIP.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,636

    Interesting..

    "Some critics are imploring Theresa May to take the lead in opposing the plans, to be debated in the Commons this week. One former minister said there was “exasperation” among Tories and that “the mood had changed”, even among some pro-Brexit new MPs."

    Unlike last year, Cummings and Johnson can't purge these.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/12/top-lawyers-slam-suella-braverman-for-wrecking-uks-reputation

    Why can't he purge them???
    If there are 41 of them ..... ;)
    Sorry, still not getting it
    He has a majority of 80. If he ejected 41 MPs he loses his majority and becomes a minority administration.

    If there are rebels (and there apparently are) then 41 rebels + rejects = no rubber stamp in Parliament. It also reduces the numbers for letters to Brady in case of a challenge.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 7,901
    "Tories beg for answers as Boris Johnson’s Zoom rally turns farcical

    Covid and Brexit have plunged MPs into confusion this week" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/tories-beg-for-answers-as-boris-johnson-s-zoom-rally-turns-farcical-8b6dqrzcm
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,241

    Lib Dems have a real opportunity to do a reverse 2019 Boris Johnson and steal voters on the centre right

    The corona rules, including the proposed “covid marshals”, the threatened fines, and the snitch’s hotline, we’re enacted by statutory instrument.

    Amazing to think they have not been in front of Parliament.
    Interesting. Does that explain why Covid Marshalls are totally unfunded?
    Simply blame Councils for not rounding up enough busybodies and blame them for infections?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,636
    RobD said:

    Death penalty is utterly gross. We don't kill people, I will consider leaving the country if that becomes law.

    There's a suggestion it is coming back?
    He is throwing red meat to his base. The death penalty is the reddest of reds and it would utterly split us from the EU / EEA.

    Johnson has not mentioned it, but it would not be a surprise.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 35,027
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    I would not at all be surprised if Boris promised a referendum on capital punishment at this point.

    Gay marriage too.
    No. That’s far-fetched, and I don’t think there’s any votes in it.
    You don't?
    Not really, no.
    I don’t think it works as a wedge issue like immigration, etc - it’s too broadly accepted now.
    And yet it was so recently cited as a trigger for defections from Cameron's Tories and a driver in the rise of UKIP.
    How many of the usual suspects do you think would be prepared to campaign against it now?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 5,499
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    I would not at all be surprised if Boris promised a referendum on capital punishment at this point.

    Gay marriage too.
    No. That’s far-fetched, and I don’t think there’s any votes in it.
    You don't?
    Not really, no.
    I don’t think it works as a wedge issue like immigration, etc - it’s too broadly accepted now.
    And yet it was so recently cited as a trigger for defections from Cameron's Tories and a driver in the rise of UKIP.
    I could be wrong, but I don’t detect it remaining a source of grievance in the right wing media.
    Unlike, say, transgender rights.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,241

    RobD said:

    Death penalty is utterly gross. We don't kill people, I will consider leaving the country if that becomes law.

    There's a suggestion it is coming back?
    He is throwing red meat to his base. The death penalty is the reddest of reds and it would utterly split us from the EU / EEA.

    Johnson has not mentioned it, but it would not be a surprise.
    It is also wildly unpopular. Although not with his base.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 49,660
    dixiedean said:

    RobD said:

    Death penalty is utterly gross. We don't kill people, I will consider leaving the country if that becomes law.

    There's a suggestion it is coming back?
    He is throwing red meat to his base. The death penalty is the reddest of reds and it would utterly split us from the EU / EEA.

    Johnson has not mentioned it, but it would not be a surprise.
    It is also wildly unpopular. Although not with his base.
    I thought polls were evenly split on the issue? I don't see it coming back though.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,241

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    I would not at all be surprised if Boris promised a referendum on capital punishment at this point.

    Gay marriage too.
    No. That’s far-fetched, and I don’t think there’s any votes in it.
    You don't?
    Not really, no.
    I don’t think it works as a wedge issue like immigration, etc - it’s too broadly accepted now.
    And yet it was so recently cited as a trigger for defections from Cameron's Tories and a driver in the rise of UKIP.
    I could be wrong, but I don’t detect it remaining a source of grievance in the right wing media.
    Unlike, say, transgender rights.
    Well indeed. What's Maria Miller up to these days?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 15,119

    Interesting..

    "Some critics are imploring Theresa May to take the lead in opposing the plans, to be debated in the Commons this week. One former minister said there was “exasperation” among Tories and that “the mood had changed”, even among some pro-Brexit new MPs."

    Unlike last year, Cummings and Johnson can't purge these.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/12/top-lawyers-slam-suella-braverman-for-wrecking-uks-reputation

    Why can't he purge them???
    If there are 41 of them ..... ;)
    Sorry, still not getting it
    He has a majority of 80. If he ejected 41 MPs he loses his majority and becomes a minority administration.

    If there are rebels (and there apparently are) then 41 rebels + rejects = no rubber stamp in Parliament. It also reduces the numbers for letters to Brady in case of a challenge.
    Didn't stop him last time. Worst case, he hands the whole sorry mess over to the unlucky Kier Starmer...

    On the letters, he'd be kicking out rebels, presumably they're more likely than average to send in letters.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,636
    edited September 12

    Death penalty is utterly gross. We don't kill people, I will consider leaving the country if that becomes law.

    This evening, Mr C has asked me to help with getting him Irish citizenship. Luckily, marriage to an Irish citizen reduces a lot of the hurdles, so residency might be enough which is a lot simpler.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 5,499
    edited September 12
    I still think No Deal is the less likely outcome.
    After a week of reflection, I think this Act is about shoring up the Tory nutters (pretty much the whole PCP now) to support Boris’s eventual (inevitable?) climb down, dressed up as a historic victory of course.

    At that point, Boris may well wish to retire to spend time practicing the violin with his latest squeeze.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 79,268
    edited September 12
    dixiedean said:

    RobD said:

    Death penalty is utterly gross. We don't kill people, I will consider leaving the country if that becomes law.

    There's a suggestion it is coming back?
    He is throwing red meat to his base. The death penalty is the reddest of reds and it would utterly split us from the EU / EEA.

    Johnson has not mentioned it, but it would not be a surprise.
    It is also wildly unpopular. Although not with his base.


  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,636

    Interesting..

    "Some critics are imploring Theresa May to take the lead in opposing the plans, to be debated in the Commons this week. One former minister said there was “exasperation” among Tories and that “the mood had changed”, even among some pro-Brexit new MPs."

    Unlike last year, Cummings and Johnson can't purge these.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/12/top-lawyers-slam-suella-braverman-for-wrecking-uks-reputation

    Why can't he purge them???
    If there are 41 of them ..... ;)
    Sorry, still not getting it
    He has a majority of 80. If he ejected 41 MPs he loses his majority and becomes a minority administration.

    If there are rebels (and there apparently are) then 41 rebels + rejects = no rubber stamp in Parliament. It also reduces the numbers for letters to Brady in case of a challenge.
    Didn't stop him last time. Worst case, he hands the whole sorry mess over to the unlucky Kier Starmer...

    On the letters, he'd be kicking out rebels, presumably they're more likely than average to send in letters.
    Last time his perfidy / ineptitude was an assumption. This time it is a proven fact.

    Well, it does not matter. I no longer give a f*ck
  • I still think No Deal is the less likely outcome.
    After a week of reflection, I think this Act is about shoring up the Tory nutters (pretty much the whole PCP now) to support Boris’s eventual (inevitable?) climb down, dressed up as a historic victory of course.

    At that point, Boris may well wish to retire to spend time practicing the violin with his latest squeeze.

    It is not about shoring up the PCP. Most of them are incredibly pissed off because a) they've been getting a ton of threats and abuse from nutters about this and b) the Internal Market stuff was rolled out in an incredibly cack-handed manner without giving them a heads up in advance.

    It is an clever dick OODA loop ploy designed to throw off the EU's negotiating strategy in the last month of negotiations and create more leverage. The Government will probably drop it in exchange for the EU giving ground on fishing. Not what I would have done personally but that's the idea AIUI.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,279
    There are still American State polls with massive undersamples of High School education and less. They should come with a warning sticker attached (danger contains 50% Bachelors Degree holders)
  • On fishing, why don't we just agree the EU's demands and then change it in domestic law
  • On fishing, why don't we just agree the EU's demands and then change it in domestic law

    What would be the point of that?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 15,606
    On Topic

    Evidently not.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 7,667

    Having been born white working class and Having grown up in the white working class, I know the white working class is not what the Tories think it is.

    Similar background, suburban South Birmingham, but I am not sure I do understand today's blue collar classes.

    I remember as a fourteen year old moving to Herefordshire in 1976 and seeing flags of St George in gardens. Of course in those days it was to keep the neighbouring Welsh under control. But I had never seen such a thing in the industrial West Midlands. Imagine my horror two years ago seeing flags of St. George flying in Warwick Road, Solihull.

    I really don't know these people anymore, so I am damn sure the Tories have no idea who they are.
  • Having been born white working class and Having grown up in the white working class, I know the white working class is not what the Tories think it is.

    Similar background, suburban South Birmingham, but I am not sure I do understand today's blue collar classes.

    I remember as a fourteen year old moving to Herefordshire in 1976 and seeing flags of St George in gardens. Of course in those days it was to keep the neighbouring Welsh under control. But I had never seen such a thing in the industrial West Midlands. Imagine my horror two years ago seeing flags of St. George flying in Warwick Road, Solihull.

    I really don't know these people anymore, so I am damn sure the Tories have no idea who they are.
    "Horror"?

    If you feel horror in people being proud of their own country then I think you have the problem not the Tories.

    I wonder how many French citizens would boast about feeling "horror" at seeing the French Tricolour?
    I wonder how many Americans would boast about feeling "horror" at seeing the Stars and Stripes?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 35,027

    On fishing, why don't we just agree the EU's demands and then change it in domestic law

    What would be the point of that?
    We could get all the things we want, and then unilaterally change the things we don’t want and dare them to do something about it. That’s the new approach to international agreements, right?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 7,901

    Having been born white working class and Having grown up in the white working class, I know the white working class is not what the Tories think it is.

    Similar background, suburban South Birmingham, but I am not sure I do understand today's blue collar classes.

    I remember as a fourteen year old moving to Herefordshire in 1976 and seeing flags of St George in gardens. Of course in those days it was to keep the neighbouring Welsh under control. But I had never seen such a thing in the industrial West Midlands. Imagine my horror two years ago seeing flags of St. George flying in Warwick Road, Solihull.

    I really don't know these people anymore, so I am damn sure the Tories have no idea who they are.
    What's wrong with flying the flag of your country? (Not that it's the sort of thing I would ever do).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 7,901
    "The Government has no legal right to impose the severe and miserable restrictions on our lives with which it has wrecked the economy, brought needless grief to the bereaved and the lonely and destroyed our personal liberty.

    This is the verdict of one of the most distinguished lawyers in the country, the retired Supreme Court Judge Lord Sumption.

    He said last week in a podcast interview: ‘I don’t myself believe that the Act confers on the Government the powers that it has purported to exercise.’"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8726051/PETER-HITCHENS-Government-wading-swamp-despotism-one-muzzle-time.html
  • Andy_JS said:

    Having been born white working class and Having grown up in the white working class, I know the white working class is not what the Tories think it is.

    Similar background, suburban South Birmingham, but I am not sure I do understand today's blue collar classes.

    I remember as a fourteen year old moving to Herefordshire in 1976 and seeing flags of St George in gardens. Of course in those days it was to keep the neighbouring Welsh under control. But I had never seen such a thing in the industrial West Midlands. Imagine my horror two years ago seeing flags of St. George flying in Warwick Road, Solihull.

    I really don't know these people anymore, so I am damn sure the Tories have no idea who they are.
    What's wrong with flying the flag of your country? (Not that it's the sort of thing I would ever do).
    Most of us do not fly flags at all. It is a shame the government has taken to aping the American practice of giving press releases in front of two union flags. The only time we see England flags is during ... hmm, that's a thought ... two years ago ... that would have been the 2018 World Cup (won by allez les bleues). So that's a relief: not fascists; just football.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 3,912
    edited September 13

    Lib Dems have a real opportunity to do a reverse 2019 Boris Johnson and steal voters on the centre right

    The corona rules, including the proposed “covid marshals”, the threatened fines, and the snitch’s hotline, we’re enacted by statutory instrument.

    Amazing to think they have not been in front of Parliament.
    Don’t even Statutory Instruments have to technically be laid down before Parliament and voted upon? It’s just all this happens on the nod and without debate.

    Come Monday morning this will not have happened and therefore will not be law.

    But this doesn’t seem to concern the Govt. The population and police seem to think it’s the law and that’s sufficient. When people have been minded to challenge prosecutions under the Coronavirus legislation through the courts, there hasn’t thus far been a single successful prosecution.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 3,912
    edited September 13
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/13/roger-stone-to-donald-trump-bring-in-martial-law-if-you-lose-election

    I wonder what Republican law makers in Congress really make of all this talk? (just hoping it will all go away and not come to pass?). There have been problematic US presidential elections in the past (either as a result of general closeness or actual problems with vote-rigging) but in the end the party hierarchies have ultimately always prioritised the protection of the appearance of the respect of American democracy over all else, even when they might have actually had right on their side. The alternative and its implications for the democratic process which infuses almost every layer of US public administration and judiciary, has always been too awful to contemplate.

    But this time Trump (and potentially a lot of others) maybe just have too much to lose
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 5,221
    edited September 13
    Deleted -- new fred
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 3,912
    alex_ said:

    Lib Dems have a real opportunity to do a reverse 2019 Boris Johnson and steal voters on the centre right

    The corona rules, including the proposed “covid marshals”, the threatened fines, and the snitch’s hotline, we’re enacted by statutory instrument.

    Amazing to think they have not been in front of Parliament.
    Don’t even Statutory Instruments have to technically be laid down before Parliament and voted upon? It’s just all this happens on the nod and without debate.

    Come Monday morning this will not have happened and therefore will not be law.
    EDIT: Ok, this is probably not quite right (not least because if it were true it would have been
    impossible to make any changes during the time when Parliament was in recess). But the instrument as far as I can tell still has not been published which must presumably happen today (Sunday).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 32,733
    edited September 13
    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    Everyone is missing the point on Israel.

    If that disease gets into Gaza...

    I dare you to explain what you mean by that.
    @felix

    It will go scything straight through a population which lives more or less in each others’ pockets, has no healthcare, limited power supplies, inadequate water and insufficient food, and no neighbours who would be willing to help.

    That could be a dreadful humanitarian catastrophe. Or it could drive the Gazans to assault Israel and Egypt in a bid to flee with predictable consequences. Or both.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 7,667
    Andy_JS said:

    Having been born white working class and Having grown up in the white working class, I know the white working class is not what the Tories think it is.

    Similar background, suburban South Birmingham, but I am not sure I do understand today's blue collar classes.

    I remember as a fourteen year old moving to Herefordshire in 1976 and seeing flags of St George in gardens. Of course in those days it was to keep the neighbouring Welsh under control. But I had never seen such a thing in the industrial West Midlands. Imagine my horror two years ago seeing flags of St. George flying in Warwick Road, Solihull.

    I really don't know these people anymore, so I am damn sure the Tories have no idea who they are.
    What's wrong with flying the flag of your country? (Not that it's the sort of thing I would ever do).
    Andy_JS said:

    Having been born white working class and Having grown up in the white working class, I know the white working class is not what the Tories think it is.

    Similar background, suburban South Birmingham, but I am not sure I do understand today's blue collar classes.

    I remember as a fourteen year old moving to Herefordshire in 1976 and seeing flags of St George in gardens. Of course in those days it was to keep the neighbouring Welsh under control. But I had never seen such a thing in the industrial West Midlands. Imagine my horror two years ago seeing flags of St. George flying in Warwick Road, Solihull.

    I really don't know these people anymore, so I am damn sure the Tories have no idea who they are.
    What's wrong with flying the flag of your country? (Not that it's the sort of thing I would ever do).
    Andy_JS said:

    Having been born white working class and Having grown up in the white working class, I know the white working class is not what the Tories think it is.

    Similar background, suburban South Birmingham, but I am not sure I do understand today's blue collar classes.

    I remember as a fourteen year old moving to Herefordshire in 1976 and seeing flags of St George in gardens. Of course in those days it was to keep the neighbouring Welsh under control. But I had never seen such a thing in the industrial West Midlands. Imagine my horror two years ago seeing flags of St. George flying in Warwick Road, Solihull.

    I really don't know these people anymore, so I am damn sure the Tories have no idea who they are.
    What's wrong with flying the flag of your country? (Not that it's the sort of thing I would ever do).
    In principle nothing, but the flag of St George has been hijacked by English Nationalists, particularly the EDL.
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