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  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited September 2020
    MrEd said:

    Oh dear Simon - and what are you going to do about it?

    I thought EU sequencing was meant to prevent this happening? 🤣
    Simon and Leo are going to have some explaining to do to their electorate.
    I am not quite sure if you get this - but in Ireland the Irish people are fully behind their Government on Brexit.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    MrEd said:

    Simon and Leo are going to have some explaining to do to their electorate.

    "You can't trust the British..."
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    When this story ends up being total b*llocks I wonder if @Philip_Thompson will go back to w*nking over the WA again.
  • Scott_xP said:
    The last point is the crucial one. Forget fishing - which is theatre but of no importance to the UK, and in any case where the dispute is actually only over the mechanics and the validity time of quotas - the real point at issue is that of state aid. I've no idea why a Conservative government thinks it's desirable to be able to prop up failing industries with taxpayers' money, but, leaving that aside, the key stumbling block is that the EU, having accepted that the ECJ won't be the arbiter of what is unacceptable state aid, wants a clear independent regulatory framework instead. The UK government for some inexplicable reason connected presumably with the obsessions of Dominic Cummings doesn't want to agree to this, and is saying 'trust us'.

    Well, they won't, will they?
  • I want to leave my Vodafone contract but still use all the services without paying anything, I'm also considering an O2 contract, they must accept me as I am CHB and I am English
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Does the Cabinet know about these new plans?

    Have they even discussed the idea of legislation over the WA?

    Or do we live in a country increasing run like a presidential system where the PM's aides make all the decisions?

    I would like to think some of them are penning letters, just in case...
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    geoffw said:

    I'm not sure it's a good move, but all the right people are upset.

    Perhaps it strengthens Liam Fox's chance to head the WTO.
  • MrEd said:

    Oh dear Simon - and what are you going to do about it?

    I thought EU sequencing was meant to prevent this happening? 🤣
    Simon and Leo are going to have some explaining to do to their electorate.
    I am not quite sure if you get this - but in Ireland the Irish people are fully behind their Government on Brexit.
    I am not quite sure if you get this - but in Britain the British people are behind their Government on Brexit.

    Remember that whole election and 80 seat majority we just had?
  • When this story ends up being total b*llocks I wonder if @Philip_Thompson will go back to w*nking over the WA again.

    I have no qualms with the WA. It served its purpose.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear Simon - and what are you going to do about it?

    I thought EU sequencing was meant to prevent this happening? 🤣
    Simon and Leo are going to have some explaining to do to their electorate.
    I am not quite sure if you get this - but in Ireland the Irish people are fully behind their Government on Brexit.
    I am not quite sure if you get this - but in Britain the British people are behind their Government on Brexit.

    Remember that whole election and 80 seat majority we just had?
    We are divided as hell with no remedy in sight. The FPTP landslide does not change that fact.
  • Momentum are leaving without Keir really doing anything, very kind of them
  • MrEd said:

    Oh dear Simon - and what are you going to do about it?

    I thought EU sequencing was meant to prevent this happening? 🤣
    Simon and Leo are going to have some explaining to do to their electorate.
    I am not quite sure if you get this - but in Ireland the Irish people are fully behind their Government on Brexit.
    I am not quite sure if you get this - but in Britain the British people are behind their Government on Brexit.

    Remember that whole election and 80 seat majority we just had?
    I wasn't aware Johnson received majority support for his proposals, did he get over 50% of the vote?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    edited September 2020
    geoffw said:

    I'm not sure it's a good move, but all the right people are upset.

    Government run by an aide who has a teenager's delight in knocking on doors and then running away.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    When this story ends up being total b*llocks I wonder if @Philip_Thompson will go back to w*nking over the WA again.

    I have no qualms with the WA. It served its purpose.
    You’ve spent significant time this evening telling us you don’t agree with the binding international treaty that you had previously told us was amazing. Which is it?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    https://twitter.com/VinnyMcAv/status/1302725615003541507

    This is the fastest way to the break up of the Union.

    And still the Little Englanders cheer...
  • Scott_xP said:
    The last point is the crucial one. Forget fishing - which is theatre but of no importance to the UK, and in any case where the dispute is actually only over the mechanics and the validity time of quotas - the real point at issue is that of state aid. I've no idea why a Conservative government thinks it's desirable to be able to prop up failing industries with taxpayers' money, but, leaving that aside, the key stumbling block is that the EU, having accepted that the ECJ won't be the arbiter of what is unacceptable state aid, wants a clear independent regulatory framework instead. The UK government for some inexplicable reason connected presumably with the obsessions of Dominic Cummings doesn't want to agree to this, and is saying 'trust us'.

    Well, they won't, will they?
    The reason is pretty self explanatory. The EU are defining "state aid" insanely broadly to the point it would include eg competitive tax rates.

    Do you think the EU should have a veto on tax cuts?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,412
    edited September 2020
    Anyone else see this WA story as a dead cat to cover the rising infection rate?
  • Momentum are leaving without Keir really doing anything, very kind of them

    Good riddance to them
  • MrEd said:

    Oh dear Simon - and what are you going to do about it?

    I thought EU sequencing was meant to prevent this happening? 🤣
    Simon and Leo are going to have some explaining to do to their electorate.
    I am not quite sure if you get this - but in Ireland the Irish people are fully behind their Government on Brexit.
    I am not quite sure if you get this - but in Britain the British people are behind their Government on Brexit.

    Remember that whole election and 80 seat majority we just had?
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/1qq0ox2vdj/YG Trackers - EU Tracker Questions_W.pdf

    "In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?"

    Right: 41%, Wrong: 47%, DK: 13% (YouGov, 30-31 July 2020)

    Perhaps not entirely behind Boris on this one...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    geoffw said:

    Perhaps it strengthens Liam Fox's chance to head the WTO.

    How does breaking International Law strengthen the chance of one the lawbreakers heading up an International Trade organisation?

    Step away from the crack pipe...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Scott_xP said:
    The last point is the crucial one. Forget fishing - which is theatre but of no importance to the UK, and in any case where the dispute is actually only over the mechanics and the validity time of quotas - the real point at issue is that of state aid. I've no idea why a Conservative government thinks it's desirable to be able to prop up failing industries with taxpayers' money, but, leaving that aside, the key stumbling block is that the EU, having accepted that the ECJ won't be the arbiter of what is unacceptable state aid, wants a clear independent regulatory framework instead. The UK government for some inexplicable reason connected presumably with the obsessions of Dominic Cummings doesn't want to agree to this, and is saying 'trust us'.

    Well, they won't, will they?
    The reason is pretty self explanatory. The EU are defining "state aid" insanely broadly to the point it would include eg competitive tax rates.

    Do you think the EU should have a veto on tax cuts?
    Oh look, you’re whining again. 😭😭 boo hoo the EU wont give us what we want unless we give them what they want 😫
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    dixiedean said:

    Anyone else see this WA story as a dead cat to cover the rising infection rate?

    Seems silly because the infection rate isn’t going to go away...?
  • MrEd said:

    Oh dear Simon - and what are you going to do about it?

    I thought EU sequencing was meant to prevent this happening? 🤣
    Simon and Leo are going to have some explaining to do to their electorate.
    I am not quite sure if you get this - but in Ireland the Irish people are fully behind their Government on Brexit.
    I am not quite sure if you get this - but in Britain the British people are behind their Government on Brexit.

    Remember that whole election and 80 seat majority we just had?

    Some British people are behind the government on Brexit, maybe up to 50%. The consensus is much broader in Ireland. The one thing that the Irish coalition government, which is now led by Fianna Fail, has no need to worry about is any kind of domestic backlash should the UK decide to renege on a deal it has signed. To be fair, I think the UK government will get a boost too once No Deal becomes reality. The issue is what does a country that has proved it can’t be trusted do to mitigate the damage of what No Deal will bring?

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited September 2020

    Scott_xP said:
    The last point is the crucial one. Forget fishing - which is theatre but of no importance to the UK, and in any case where the dispute is actually only over the mechanics and the validity time of quotas - the real point at issue is that of state aid. I've no idea why a Conservative government thinks it's desirable to be able to prop up failing industries with taxpayers' money, but, leaving that aside, the key stumbling block is that the EU, having accepted that the ECJ won't be the arbiter of what is unacceptable state aid, wants a clear independent regulatory framework instead. The UK government for some inexplicable reason connected presumably with the obsessions of Dominic Cummings doesn't want to agree to this, and is saying 'trust us'.

    Well, they won't, will they?
    The reason is pretty self explanatory. The EU are defining "state aid" insanely broadly to the point it would include eg competitive tax rates.

    Do you think the EU should have a veto on tax cuts?
    I don't have a view. It's a negotiation. The EU very reasonably will act in what it thinks are its interests. It doesn't owe us any favours - rather the reverse, given all the trouble we've caused. We are the supplicants, having insanely boxed ourselves in to an impossible timetable for no reason whatsoever.

    In such a situation, we'll get shafted. Some of us have been pointing this out for many months. The only question now is whether we accept what we are offered, or throw our toys out of the pram and get nothing.
  • When this story ends up being total b*llocks I wonder if @Philip_Thompson will go back to w*nking over the WA again.

    I have no qualms with the WA. It served its purpose.
    You’ve spent significant time this evening telling us you don’t agree with the binding international treaty that you had previously told us was amazing. Which is it?
    I haven't said that once. Either part of that.

    I think the WA was ok not amazing.
    I haven't said I disagree with the WA either.

    So 0/2 must try harder.

    What I said is that UK courts need to operate on the basis of UK laws. If there is a dispute between the UK and the EU on the operation of the treaty then that needs dispute resolution just like any other treaty does.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,412

    dixiedean said:

    Anyone else see this WA story as a dead cat to cover the rising infection rate?

    Seems silly because the infection rate isn’t going to go away...?
    Yes but.
    We've had 6 months of no one noticing Brexit no deal was being negotiated. Because Covid.
    Now they want 6 months of no one noticing Covid is on the rise.
    Because Brexit.
    Genius!
  • Scott_xP said:
    The last point is the crucial one. Forget fishing - which is theatre but of no importance to the UK, and in any case where the dispute is actually only over the mechanics and the validity time of quotas - the real point at issue is that of state aid. I've no idea why a Conservative government thinks it's desirable to be able to prop up failing industries with taxpayers' money, but, leaving that aside, the key stumbling block is that the EU, having accepted that the ECJ won't be the arbiter of what is unacceptable state aid, wants a clear independent regulatory framework instead. The UK government for some inexplicable reason connected presumably with the obsessions of Dominic Cummings doesn't want to agree to this, and is saying 'trust us'.

    Well, they won't, will they?
    The reason is pretty self explanatory. The EU are defining "state aid" insanely broadly to the point it would include eg competitive tax rates.

    Do you think the EU should have a veto on tax cuts?
    Oh look, you’re whining again. 😭😭 boo hoo the EU wont give us what we want unless we give them what they want 😫
    No whine. If the EU won't give us what we want we turn around and walk away. No upset, I'm perfectly fine with that.
  • Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/VinnyMcAv/status/1302725615003541507

    This is the fastest way to the break up of the Union.

    And still the Little Englanders cheer...

    I want break up of the Union so your threat rings a little hollow to me.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Scott_xP said:

    geoffw said:

    Perhaps it strengthens Liam Fox's chance to head the WTO.

    How does breaking International Law strengthen the chance of one the lawbreakers heading up an International Trade organisation?

    Step away from the crack pipe...
    How popular is the EU among the voting nations of the WTO?

  • Scott_xP said:

    You guys sound like petulant children.

    They are petulant children

    Brexit, the ultimate temper tantrum
    I am looking forward to 2nd Jan 2021...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,719

    Momentum are leaving without Keir really doing anything, very kind of them

    They are, and that shows how politically clever Keir is.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    geoffw said:

    How popular is the EU among the voting nations of the WTO?

    How popular is the rule of law?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Scott_xP said:
    The last point is the crucial one. Forget fishing - which is theatre but of no importance to the UK, and in any case where the dispute is actually only over the mechanics and the validity time of quotas - the real point at issue is that of state aid. I've no idea why a Conservative government thinks it's desirable to be able to prop up failing industries with taxpayers' money, but, leaving that aside, the key stumbling block is that the EU, having accepted that the ECJ won't be the arbiter of what is unacceptable state aid, wants a clear independent regulatory framework instead. The UK government for some inexplicable reason connected presumably with the obsessions of Dominic Cummings doesn't want to agree to this, and is saying 'trust us'.

    Well, they won't, will they?
    The reason is pretty self explanatory. The EU are defining "state aid" insanely broadly to the point it would include eg competitive tax rates.

    Do you think the EU should have a veto on tax cuts?
    Oh look, you’re whining again. 😭😭 boo hoo the EU wont give us what we want unless we give them what they want 😫
    No whine. If the EU won't give us what we want we turn around and walk away. No upset, I'm perfectly fine with that.
    If you’re fine with it, stop whining about it.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited September 2020


    Some British people are behind the government on Brexit, maybe up to 50%. The consensus is much broader in Ireland. The one thing that the Irish coalition government, which is now led by Fianna Fail, has no need to worry about is any kind of domestic backlash should the UK decide to renege on a deal it has signed. To be fair, I think the UK government will get a boost too once No Deal becomes reality. The issue is what does a country that has proved it can’t be trusted do to mitigate the damage of what No Deal will bring?

    Oh, I'm sure that as soon as we renege on an international treaty the French will be rushing to help us deal with the cross-channel migration problem, the Spaniards will become cooperative on Gibraltar, and UK fishermen will be given full rights to land their fish in EU ports with no bureaucracy.
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anyone else see this WA story as a dead cat to cover the rising infection rate?

    Seems silly because the infection rate isn’t going to go away...?
    Yes but.
    We've had 6 months of no one noticing Brexit no deal was being negotiated. Because Covid.
    Now they want 6 months of no one noticing Covid is on the rise.
    Because Brexit.
    Genius!
    The dividing line between Genius and Insanity is a thin one... :D:D
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Scott_xP said:

    geoffw said:

    How popular is the EU among the voting nations of the WTO?

    How popular is the rule of law?
    Other nations with no skin in the game will see this as part of the overall protracted and rancorous separation of the UK from the EU.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Planning to break International Law does explain why Kevin and Perry are so keen to neuter the UK courts
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    geoffw said:

    Other nations with no skin in the game

    There is no nation seeking a legally binding trade agreement with the UK that has no skin in the game
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    JFC

    Looking at scotland testing numbers by age group. In the week before schools went back there were 563 5-11 year olds tested for Coronavirus that week

    In the week ending 30th of August 17,116 were tested that week.

    Positive test rate for that week was 0.04%

  • Some British people are behind the government on Brexit, maybe up to 50%. The consensus is much broader in Ireland. The one thing that the Irish coalition government, which is now led by Fianna Fail, has no need to worry about is any kind of domestic backlash should the UK decide to renege on a deal it has signed. To be fair, I think the UK government will get a boost too once No Deal becomes reality. The issue is what does a country that has proved it can’t be trusted do to mitigate the damage of what No Deal will bring?

    Oh, I'm sure that as soon as we renege on an international treaty the French will be rushing to help us deal with the cross-channel migration problem, the Spaniards will become cooperative on Gibraltar, and UK fishermen will be given full rights to land their fish in EU ports with no bureaucracy.

    Do you remember when Brexiteers insisted that election manifesto commitments had to be met? What did the 2019 Tory manifesto say about the Withdrawal Agreement?

  • When this story ends up being total b*llocks I wonder if @Philip_Thompson will go back to w*nking over the WA again.

    I have no qualms with the WA. It served its purpose.
    You’ve spent significant time this evening telling us you don’t agree with the binding international treaty that you had previously told us was amazing. Which is it?
    Yes! No!! Maybe!!!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    edited September 2020
    ...
  • Scott_xP said:

    geoffw said:

    Other nations with no skin in the game

    There is no nation seeking a legally binding trade agreement with the UK that has no skin in the game
    Talking of which, if we muck the Irish around at all, doesn't that put the kybosh on any plans for a trade deal with the USA?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/VinnyMcAv/status/1302725615003541507

    This is the fastest way to the break up of the Union.

    And still the Little Englanders cheer...

    No it isn't, the UK government will still ensure no hard border within Ireland but also minimise duties and tariffs from Northern Ireland to GB
  • Later peeps!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    Technically yes. Not that it has much capability any more. I know a lot of navy and ex-navy people and they are not impressed with the hollowed out shell which is all that remains of the UK navy. We are down to 20 destroyers / frigates and some of them are always not fit for sea.

    One task the RN could do is fisheries protection as they have a surfeit of OPVs. When the tories postponed the T26 frigate program they had to order 5 x River Class OPVs they didn't really need or want in order to keep BAE Glasgow busy as the carrier program wound down.
This discussion has been closed.