It seems a bit partial to target him in particular.
You seem to have bought into his conspiracy theorist mindset that he was indeed targeted in particular, I wonder why.
Even if he was he gets a lot of press for his crank views and breaking the law in this way, so the targeting, if it happened, is not necessarily unreasonable.
How many other people have received fines of that level ?
I don't know, but if he's an egregious offender and the level is within the range allowed by law then what does it matter? If his challenge reveals he was unfairly punished then I will defend him, but the implication of your statement seems to be that a punishment allowed by law might be unfair simply because he is relatively well known. Given he is a well known fantasist I'm prepared to wait for more than his word before assuming he is correct. The boy who cried wolf was right about something in the end, but could hardly blame people for doubting his veracity.
It doesn't look good if it seems some people are being treated differently to others.
And the general impression the media are giving is that there aren't too many big fines being imposed.
But you make a fair point that we need independent confirmation as to what has happened.
Media reporting this morning that there have been 10 £10k fines handed out this weekend - others were to DJs and rave organisers of large public gatherings. Not sure why Mr Corbyn thinks he should be treated any differently?
Because he is fighting the lizard people in the name of freedom.
Because laws don’t apply to people of genuine brilliance and insight, like him or Dominic Cummings.
(I find myself in rare agreement with Socialist Voice on this point.)
I'm obliged. Wonder what Mr S's IT Director would think.
By coincidence a day or so ago I had a chat with Younger Son who says that he has reached a stage in negotiations for a substantial contract where he really needs a face to face, rather than Zoom, meeting with the customer. "There are things you can't say on Zoom!" Or words to that effect.
It seems a bit partial to target him in particular.
You seem to have bought into his conspiracy theorist mindset that he was indeed targeted in particular, I wonder why.
Even if he was he gets a lot of press for his crank views and breaking the law in this way, so the targeting, if it happened, is not necessarily unreasonable.
How many other people have received fines of that level ?
It seems a bit partial to target him in particular.
You seem to have bought into his conspiracy theorist mindset that he was indeed targeted in particular, I wonder why.
Even if he was he gets a lot of press for his crank views and breaking the law in this way, so the targeting, if it happened, is not necessarily unreasonable.
How many other people have received fines of that level ?
I don't know, but if he's an egregious offender and the level is within the range allowed by law then what does it matter? If his challenge reveals he was unfairly punished then I will defend him, but the implication of your statement seems to be that a punishment allowed by law might be unfair simply because he is relatively well known. Given he is a well known fantasist I'm prepared to wait for more than his word before assuming he is correct. The boy who cried wolf was right about something in the end, but could hardly blame people for doubting his veracity.
It doesn't look good if it seems some people are being treated differently to others.
And the general impression the media are giving is that there aren't too many big fines being imposed.
But you make a fair point that we need independent confirmation as to what has happened.
Media reporting this morning that there have been 10 £10k fines handed out this weekend - others were to DJs and rave organisers of large public gatherings. Not sure why Mr Corbyn thinks he should be treated any differently?
Because he is fighting the lizard people in the name of freedom.
Because laws don’t apply to people of genuine brilliance and insight, like him or Dominic Cummings.
(I find myself in rare agreement with Socialist Voice on this point.)
I don't think the 10k applied at the time of the Durham Excursion, did it? Or any on-the-spot penalties?
It seems a bit partial to target him in particular.
You seem to have bought into his conspiracy theorist mindset that he was indeed targeted in particular, I wonder why.
Even if he was he gets a lot of press for his crank views and breaking the law in this way, so the targeting, if it happened, is not necessarily unreasonable.
How many other people have received fines of that level ?
I don't know, but if he's an egregious offender and the level is within the range allowed by law then what does it matter? If his challenge reveals he was unfairly punished then I will defend him, but the implication of your statement seems to be that a punishment allowed by law might be unfair simply because he is relatively well known. Given he is a well known fantasist I'm prepared to wait for more than his word before assuming he is correct. The boy who cried wolf was right about something in the end, but could hardly blame people for doubting his veracity.
It doesn't look good if it seems some people are being treated differently to others.
And the general impression the media are giving is that there aren't too many big fines being imposed.
But you make a fair point that we need independent confirmation as to what has happened.
Media reporting this morning that there have been 10 £10k fines handed out this weekend - others were to DJs and rave organisers of large public gatherings. Not sure why Mr Corbyn thinks he should be treated any differently?
Because he is fighting the lizard people in the name of freedom.
Because laws don’t apply to people of genuine brilliance and insight, like him or Dominic Cummings.
(I find myself in rare agreement with Socialist Voice on this point.)
I don't think the 10k applied at the time of the Durham Excursion, did it? Or any on-the-spot penalties?
There were £1,000 fines for breaking quarantine, increased for repeat offences, which Cummings admitted to doing on three occasions. However, only three people were ever issued with such fines.
O/T - it used to be a nearly consensus view here that Merkel had made a terrible mistake by letting in so many Syrian refugees. On the whole it seems to be working out OK, both socially (no attacks fopr years) and politiccally (CDU back up, AfD adrift). An article putting the case in more detail:
It may turn out similarly to the Vietnamese migration - the "boat people" have generally turned out to be an asset to their new societies.
My problem with it was not the intention or its potential impact on Germany it was its unilateral action supported by people who usually insist that consultation and cooperation are sacrosanct and sneer at unilateral ism. It showed all that talk was bunkum and people actually just want the things they want to happen and dont care as much about international cooperation as they high mindedly pretend.
Don't forget that Phase III started in South Africa and Brazil almost six weeks ago. If the placebo group has gotten a fair number of CV19 cases, and the vaccine group have (ideally) got none, and there have been no side effects, then it's possible...
Although given that there are - what two weeks? - between the doses, any data is very, very preliminary at this stage...
It’s a double blinded trial, so that data simply isn’t there yet to make such a decision.
But presumably the organisers will get told of any confirmed CV19 cases, and can then check it against whether someone was given the vaccine or not.
For the record, given all the dangers (in particular the risk of creating something that kills more people than the disease), it would be insane to approve a vaccine without proper testing.
It wouldn't even need to kill more people than the disease, any issues with a vaccine are going to cause problems in terms of people being willing to get vaccinated at all in the future - against this disease or others. Trump would no doubt be willing to take the risk if he thinks it increases his chances of reelection.
People may not agree with its overall premise or conclusion, but I do often think we have an emotional reaction to the NHS which does not help us or it deal with the many problems any behemoth of an organisation would face, that money is presumed to be the only issue, and that the chances if addressing problems is slight.
Remember when sending private messages to colleagues, that if these are on Teams, Slack or other company-owned platform, or a company-logged phone or computer, your IT department, HR department and possibly even your line manager will be able to read them!
Think of a chat in the pub vs posting on social media, for a good example of the difference! < /IT_Director >
Another one is that people can, on Teams record a meeting they have left
It seems a bit partial to target him in particular.
You seem to have bought into his conspiracy theorist mindset that he was indeed targeted in particular, I wonder why.
Even if he was he gets a lot of press for his crank views and breaking the law in this way, so the targeting, if it happened, is not necessarily unreasonable.
How many other people have received fines of that level ?
I don't know, but if he's an egregious offender and the level is within the range allowed by law then what does it matter? If his challenge reveals he was unfairly punished then I will defend him, but the implication of your statement seems to be that a punishment allowed by law might be unfair simply because he is relatively well known. Given he is a well known fantasist I'm prepared to wait for more than his word before assuming he is correct. The boy who cried wolf was right about something in the end, but could hardly blame people for doubting his veracity.
It doesn't look good if it seems some people are being treated differently to others.
And the general impression the media are giving is that there aren't too many big fines being imposed.
But you make a fair point that we need independent confirmation as to what has happened.
Media reporting this morning that there have been 10 £10k fines handed out this weekend - others were to DJs and rave organisers of large public gatherings. Not sure why Mr Corbyn thinks he should be treated any differently?
Because he is fighting the lizard people in the name of freedom.
Because laws don’t apply to people of genuine brilliance and insight, like him or Dominic Cummings.
(I find myself in rare agreement with Socialist Voice on this point.)
I like the idea of him and Cummings being two peas in a pod. The belief organisations and institutions are out to get you/stop your goals, the unearned self confidence based on flimsy or misunderstood information, a belief that petty acts of rebellion make you a special snowflake.
Better than our local crooks though: The owner of an Aberdeen bar which had it's application fast tracked for a Pop up tent it has now emerged donated £20k to the Conservative party Liam Kerr Conservative MSP Intervened and demanded special treatment for Soul Bar while OTHER premises had to wait
By making it harder for people to vote by post, the Trump administration is ensuring more Democrats vote on the day, and thus depriving Trump of the ability to claim the election was rigged by mail in voting.
That one way of looking at it; time will tell. What was notable is that in the few states which are already 100% ‘voting by mail’, over half those votes are returned via drop boxes.
There's maybe a 2-pronged attack going on. One is the traditional voter suppression. The other is Trump attacking mail-in voting. This seems to be having the effect of making Trump voters far more likely to vote in person, and Biden voters far more likely to vote by mail. This allows Trump to claim victory on the night before the mail-in votes are counted. A bunch of fraudulent mail-in Biden votes will be "found", to justify ignoring enough mail-in votes in enough states for Trump to either win the electoral college, or nobody will get to 270 votes and the House state delegations will then reelect Trump as president. Republicans in the House and Senate have already shown they are willing to go along with any shit in order to "win". No doubt it will end up in the courts, but who knows if Trump-appointed judges will rule against Trump.
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
No matter how you try to dress it up London has been absolutely crap , they spent years dismantling all the systems for this type of thing and then when needed we have the country being run by a bunch of morons, who could not run a bath. They also do not even have enough principles to come out and apologise for being thick cnuts who messed up through stupidity rather than venality and supidity.
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
No matter how you try to dress it up London has been absolutely crap , they spent years dismantling all the systems for this type of thing and then when needed we have the country being run by a bunch of morons, who could not run a bath. They also do not even have enough principles to come out and apologise for being thick cnuts who messed up through stupidity rather than venality and supidity.
I'm not sure how acknowledging it appears to be among the worst in the world is dressing things up.
Don't forget that Phase III started in South Africa and Brazil almost six weeks ago. If the placebo group has gotten a fair number of CV19 cases, and the vaccine group have (ideally) got none, and there have been no side effects, then it's possible...
Although given that there are - what two weeks? - between the doses, any data is very, very preliminary at this stage...
It’s a double blinded trial, so that data simply isn’t there yet to make such a decision.
But presumably the organisers will get told of any confirmed CV19 cases, and can then check it against whether someone was given the vaccine or not.
For the record, given all the dangers (in particular the risk of creating something that kills more people than the disease), it would be insane to approve a vaccine without proper testing.
That’s not how it works. A double blinded survey means the investigators do not know until the trial reaches a predetermined endpoint; they don’t get to peak at the data as it goes along - and they don’t know who was or wasn’t given the vaccine until the data is unblinded.
It depends. A number of double blind studies appoint an independent panel empowered to end the trial early if an unexpectedly strong difference is discovered, for good or ill.
Remember when sending private messages to colleagues, that if these are on Teams, Slack or other company-owned platform, or a company-logged phone or computer, your IT department, HR department and possibly even your line manager will be able to read them!
Think of a chat in the pub vs posting on social media, for a good example of the difference! < /IT_Director >
Unless you are a thick twunt , saying someone is talking mince is hardly likely to get you in any trouble. I hardly think HR have time to trawl through millions of lines of messages to see if anyone is being catty about someone
It's going to be a disaster. Which sectors get the extention, or perhaps all? Itll be a bloodbath. Given we're spending like there's no tomorrow out of necessity anyway I wouldn't be surprised if they take up his suggestion on universal credit, especially as afraid Tory mps are of being unpopular
It seems a bit partial to target him in particular.
You seem to have bought into his conspiracy theorist mindset that he was indeed targeted in particular, I wonder why.
Even if he was he gets a lot of press for his crank views and breaking the law in this way, so the targeting, if it happened, is not necessarily unreasonable.
How many other people have received fines of that level ?
I don't know, but if he's an egregious offender and the level is within the range allowed by law then what does it matter? If his challenge reveals he was unfairly punished then I will defend him, but the implication of your statement seems to be that a punishment allowed by law might be unfair simply because he is relatively well known. Given he is a well known fantasist I'm prepared to wait for more than his word before assuming he is correct. The boy who cried wolf was right about something in the end, but could hardly blame people for doubting his veracity.
It doesn't look good if it seems some people are being treated differently to others.
And the general impression the media are giving is that there aren't too many big fines being imposed.
But you make a fair point that we need independent confirmation as to what has happened.
Media reporting this morning that there have been 10 £10k fines handed out this weekend - others were to DJs and rave organisers of large public gatherings. Not sure why Mr Corbyn thinks he should be treated any differently?
Because he is fighting the lizard people in the name of freedom.
The only thing that will release the vice-like grip of the lizard people over us is another Ice Age.....
"Why do you think they have caused global warming?"
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
Almost as if a highly transmissable pandemic unlike any that has hit Europe before in living memory swept through high population density western Europe.
Germany are much lower population density and got off lightly compared to the rest of western Europe but they are the exception not the rule.
But more importantly - its not a f***ing sport with a f***ing league table.
Of course Germany doesn't have a "much lower population density" compared to the rest of western Europe. It has a higher population density than Italy, France and Spain and others.
In any case, mainland Britain could (should?) have done better than continental countries, being an island. Making it much easier to control borders, and much less of an issue to restrict crossing of borders than in a country like Germany.
An evens bet on Biden seems reasonable but we need to remember the electoral college. Trump wasn't even that close to Clinton in terms of actual votes.
It seems a bit partial to target him in particular.
You seem to have bought into his conspiracy theorist mindset that he was indeed targeted in particular, I wonder why.
Even if he was he gets a lot of press for his crank views and breaking the law in this way, so the targeting, if it happened, is not necessarily unreasonable.
How many other people have received fines of that level ?
I don't know, but if he's an egregious offender and the level is within the range allowed by law then what does it matter? If his challenge reveals he was unfairly punished then I will defend him, but the implication of your statement seems to be that a punishment allowed by law might be unfair simply because he is relatively well known. Given he is a well known fantasist I'm prepared to wait for more than his word before assuming he is correct. The boy who cried wolf was right about something in the end, but could hardly blame people for doubting his veracity.
It doesn't look good if it seems some people are being treated differently to others.
And the general impression the media are giving is that there aren't too many big fines being imposed.
But you make a fair point that we need independent confirmation as to what has happened.
Media reporting this morning that there have been 10 £10k fines handed out this weekend - others were to DJs and rave organisers of large public gatherings. Not sure why Mr Corbyn thinks he should be treated any differently?
Because he is fighting the lizard people in the name of freedom.
The only thing that will release the vice-like grip of the lizard people over us is another Ice Age.....
"Why do you think they have caused global warming?"
Said Piers Corbyn. Probably.
Maybe. He is a bit of a global warming denier. But logic probably not his strong point.
An evens bet on Biden seems reasonable but we need to remember the electoral college. Trump wasn't even that close to Clinton in terms of actual votes.
It's going to be a disaster. Which sectors get the extention, or perhaps all? Itll be a bloodbath. Given we're spending like there's no tomorrow out of necessity anyway I wouldn't be surprised if they take up his suggestion on universal credit, especially as afraid Tory mps are of being unpopular
We need to start paying people (and removing barriers for people and companies ) to do something not the other way around.
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
Almost as if a highly transmissable pandemic unlike any that has hit Europe before in living memory swept through high population density western Europe.
Germany are much lower population density and got off lightly compared to the rest of western Europe but they are the exception not the rule.
But more importantly - its not a f***ing sport with a f***ing league table.
Of course Germany doesn't have a "much lower population density" compared to the rest of western Europe. It has a higher population density than Italy, France and Spain and others.
In any case, mainland Britain could (should?) have done better than continental countries, being an island. Making it much easier to control borders, and much less of an issue to restrict crossing of borders than in a country like Germany.
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
It's very good, except I expect what he is actually supposed to do is throw around cash, without doing anything to acquire any more cash, so it's even harder.
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
Almost as if a highly transmissable pandemic unlike any that has hit Europe before in living memory swept through high population density western Europe.
Germany are much lower population density and got off lightly compared to the rest of western Europe but they are the exception not the rule.
But more importantly - its not a f***ing sport with a f***ing league table.
Of course Germany doesn't have a "much lower population density" compared to the rest of western Europe. It has a higher population density than Italy, France and Spain and others.
In any case, mainland Britain could (should?) have done better than continental countries, being an island. Making it much easier to control borders, and much less of an issue to restrict crossing of borders than in a country like Germany.
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
We didn't use that advantage well.
How did that happen? Did the internet go down in Germany for a couple of weeks?
It seems a bit partial to target him in particular.
You seem to have bought into his conspiracy theorist mindset that he was indeed targeted in particular, I wonder why.
Even if he was he gets a lot of press for his crank views and breaking the law in this way, so the targeting, if it happened, is not necessarily unreasonable.
How many other people have received fines of that level ?
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
Almost as if a highly transmissable pandemic unlike any that has hit Europe before in living memory swept through high population density western Europe.
Germany are much lower population density and got off lightly compared to the rest of western Europe but they are the exception not the rule.
But more importantly - its not a f***ing sport with a f***ing league table.
Of course Germany doesn't have a "much lower population density" compared to the rest of western Europe. It has a higher population density than Italy, France and Spain and others.
In any case, mainland Britain could (should?) have done better than continental countries, being an island. Making it much easier to control borders, and much less of an issue to restrict crossing of borders than in a country like Germany.
Am I right in thinking though that Germany’s cities are much more spread out than those of the UK, France, Italy, Spain etc? Far more people living in houses with gardens and not tiny apartments in huge blocks? That was certainly my impression on visiting them, anyway.
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
We didn't use that advantage well.
How did that happen? Did the internet go down in Germany for a couple of weeks?
What seems to have happened was that the British had a plan for dealing with pandemics, and they'd worked jolly hard at it, and they weren't going to throw it away just because some foreigners had discovered that the pandemic they were dealing with wasn't like the one in the plan.
It seems a bit partial to target him in particular.
You seem to have bought into his conspiracy theorist mindset that he was indeed targeted in particular, I wonder why.
Even if he was he gets a lot of press for his crank views and breaking the law in this way, so the targeting, if it happened, is not necessarily unreasonable.
How many other people have received fines of that level ?
I don't know, but if he's an egregious offender and the level is within the range allowed by law then what does it matter? If his challenge reveals he was unfairly punished then I will defend him, but the implication of your statement seems to be that a punishment allowed by law might be unfair simply because he is relatively well known. Given he is a well known fantasist I'm prepared to wait for more than his word before assuming he is correct. The boy who cried wolf was right about something in the end, but could hardly blame people for doubting his veracity.
It doesn't look good if it seems some people are being treated differently to others.
And the general impression the media are giving is that there aren't too many big fines being imposed.
But you make a fair point that we need independent confirmation as to what has happened.
Media reporting this morning that there have been 10 £10k fines handed out this weekend - others were to DJs and rave organisers of large public gatherings. Not sure why Mr Corbyn thinks he should be treated any differently?
Because he is fighting the lizard people in the name of freedom.
The only thing that will release the vice-like grip of the lizard people over us is another Ice Age.....
"Why do you think they have caused global warming?"
Said Piers Corbyn. Probably.
Maybe. He is a bit of a global warming denier. But logic probably not his strong point.
He is Jeremy's brother. Poor logic is probably genetic.
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
We didn't use that advantage well.
How did that happen? Did the internet go down in Germany for a couple of weeks?
What seems to have happened was that the British had a plan for dealing with pandemics, and they'd worked jolly hard at it, and they weren't going to throw it away just because some foreigners had discovered that the pandemic they were dealing with wasn't like the one in the plan.
I agree that is what "seems" to have happened, listening to people on here and in real life. What actually happened though is the German lockdown started on 23 March and the UK lockdown started on 23 March.
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
Almost as if a highly transmissable pandemic unlike any that has hit Europe before in living memory swept through high population density western Europe.
Germany are much lower population density and got off lightly compared to the rest of western Europe but they are the exception not the rule.
But more importantly - its not a f***ing sport with a f***ing league table.
Of course Germany doesn't have a "much lower population density" compared to the rest of western Europe. It has a higher population density than Italy, France and Spain and others.
In any case, mainland Britain could (should?) have done better than continental countries, being an island. Making it much easier to control borders, and much less of an issue to restrict crossing of borders than in a country like Germany.
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
We didn't use that advantage well.
How did that happen? Did the internet go down in Germany for a couple of weeks?
That's the big question for the inquiry, I reckon.
What I fearfully expect:
The Johnson/Gove/Cummings National Mojo project convinced them that the UK could manage a higher infection rater than other, inferior countries. After all, we could build Nightingale Hospitals and F1 ventilators. And that was so much more fun than planning a boring old lockdown.
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
We didn't use that advantage well.
How did that happen? Did the internet go down in Germany for a couple of weeks?
What seems to have happened was that the British had a plan for dealing with pandemics, and they'd worked jolly hard at it, and they weren't going to throw it away just because some foreigners had discovered that the pandemic they were dealing with wasn't like the one in the plan.
Pity it was based on a flu epidemic from 100 years ago instead of the recent modern outbreaks
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
Almost as if a highly transmissable pandemic unlike any that has hit Europe before in living memory swept through high population density western Europe.
Germany are much lower population density and got off lightly compared to the rest of western Europe but they are the exception not the rule.
But more importantly - its not a f***ing sport with a f***ing league table.
Of course Germany doesn't have a "much lower population density" compared to the rest of western Europe. It has a higher population density than Italy, France and Spain and others.
In any case, mainland Britain could (should?) have done better than continental countries, being an island. Making it much easier to control borders, and much less of an issue to restrict crossing of borders than in a country like Germany.
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
We didn't use that advantage well.
How did that happen? Did the internet go down in Germany for a couple of weeks?
That's the big question for the inquiry, I reckon.
What I fearfully expect:
The Johnson/Gove/Cummings National Mojo project convinced them that the UK could manage a higher infection rater than other, inferior countries. After all, we could build Nightingale Hospitals and F1 ventilators. And that was so much more fun than planning a boring old lockdown.
If all the above is true it wouldnt explain how the UK somehow had a couple of weeks more notice than Germany.
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
We didn't use that advantage well.
How did that happen? Did the internet go down in Germany for a couple of weeks?
What seems to have happened was that the British had a plan for dealing with pandemics, and they'd worked jolly hard at it, and they weren't going to throw it away just because some foreigners had discovered that the pandemic they were dealing with wasn't like the one in the plan.
I agree that is what "seems" to have happened, listening to people on here and in real life. What actually happened though is the German lockdown started on 23 March and the UK lockdown started on 23 March.
Although it is true we had a plan for dealing with pandemics, we also knew our plan would not work, thanks to Exercise Cygnus. Rather than act on these findings, the government suppressed them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Cygnus
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
We didn't use that advantage well.
How did that happen? Did the internet go down in Germany for a couple of weeks?
What seems to have happened was that the British had a plan for dealing with pandemics, and they'd worked jolly hard at it, and they weren't going to throw it away just because some foreigners had discovered that the pandemic they were dealing with wasn't like the one in the plan.
I agree that is what "seems" to have happened, listening to people on here and in real life. What actually happened though is the German lockdown started on 23 March and the UK lockdown started on 23 March.
The facepalm-inducing thing about the British response was the stubborn refusal to do any of the cheapish, reasonable low-disruption things that could have slowed the spread early on, followed eventually by a massively expensive and coercive lockdown.
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
Almost as if a highly transmissable pandemic unlike any that has hit Europe before in living memory swept through high population density western Europe.
Germany are much lower population density and got off lightly compared to the rest of western Europe but they are the exception not the rule.
But more importantly - its not a f***ing sport with a f***ing league table.
Of course Germany doesn't have a "much lower population density" compared to the rest of western Europe. It has a higher population density than Italy, France and Spain and others.
In any case, mainland Britain could (should?) have done better than continental countries, being an island. Making it much easier to control borders, and much less of an issue to restrict crossing of borders than in a country like Germany.
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
We didn't use that advantage well.
How did that happen? Did the internet go down in Germany for a couple of weeks?
That's the big question for the inquiry, I reckon.
What I fearfully expect:
The Johnson/Gove/Cummings National Mojo project convinced them that the UK could manage a higher infection rater than other, inferior countries. After all, we could build Nightingale Hospitals and F1 ventilators. And that was so much more fun than planning a boring old lockdown.
To be fair, the Nightingale Hospitals were built quickly, and, for a while it did seem they might be needed.
People may not agree with its overall premise or conclusion, but I do often think we have an emotional reaction to the NHS which does not help us or it deal with the many problems any behemoth of an organisation would face, that money is presumed to be the only issue, and that the chances if addressing problems is slight.
The British generally have a wildly exaggerated faith in their government. I'm always amazed to hear people talking about a "Rolls Royce civil service" and an NHS which is the "envy of the world" and so on.
Neither are terrible, but compared to most other civilised countries they're at best mediocre.
People may not agree with its overall premise or conclusion, but I do often think we have an emotional reaction to the NHS which does not help us or it deal with the many problems any behemoth of an organisation would face, that money is presumed to be the only issue, and that the chances if addressing problems is slight.
The British generally have a wildly exaggerated faith in their government. I'm always amazed to hear people talking about a "Rolls Royce civil service" and an NHS which is the "envy of the world" and so on.
Neither are terrible, but compared to most other civilised countries they're at best mediocre.
Yes i fully agree, also add the often arrogant boast (sometimes from lawyers ) that we have the best legal system as well. I think the only public institutions that were "world class" were the BBC and elements of the armed forces. The BBC certainly has lost this status with its chasing of the "yoof" audience and trying to become like Hello magazine on its website.
The British generally have a wildly exaggerated faith in their government. I'm always amazed to hear people talking about a "Rolls Royce civil service" and an NHS which is the "envy of the world" and so on.
Neither are terrible, but compared to most other civilised countries they're at best mediocre.
Cummings attempts to "fix" them are going to make both worse in the short term
Didn't get the whole thing because of the paywall but the subtitle says Biden should condemn violence unequivocally, which he already has.
Repeatedly.
Unequivocally.
This is apparently not enough. In fact, it is never enough. Biden has to do something, never actually stated, more. Which he can never do because no one defines what that more is.
Didn't get the whole thing because of the paywall but the subtitle says Biden should condemn violence unequivocally, which he already has.
Repeatedly.
Unequivocally.
This is apparently not enough. In fact, it is never enough. Biden has to do something, never actually stated, more. Which he can never do because no one defines what that more is.
I think he needs to go and start punching protesters, telling them to be more peaceful
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
We didn't use that advantage well.
How did that happen? Did the internet go down in Germany for a couple of weeks?
What seems to have happened was that the British had a plan for dealing with pandemics, and they'd worked jolly hard at it, and they weren't going to throw it away just because some foreigners had discovered that the pandemic they were dealing with wasn't like the one in the plan.
I agree that is what "seems" to have happened, listening to people on here and in real life. What actually happened though is the German lockdown started on 23 March and the UK lockdown started on 23 March.
The facepalm-inducing thing about the British response was the stubborn refusal to do any of the cheapish, reasonable low-disruption things that could have slowed the spread early on, followed eventually by a massively expensive and coercive lockdown.
Agree entirely its not the only thing, and that Germany have handled the crisis better, but its not like nothing was happening in the UK pre the official lockdown date either. Tube usage was already at 72% on 13 March, and down to 11% the day before lockdown, partly due to the unofficial lockdown announced on 16 March. The early timeline for the UK is pretty close to the median response, not some big slow outlier.
Coercive is very misleading, especially in comparison with the rules in France, Italy or Spain. Here you could even drive 350 miles when supposed to be under quarantine. And as long as you were selling your chocolate in the traditional shapes rather than that of an easter bunny the police were not very interested.
"Is it really any surprise given how this Government has behaved on schools that the British have been the slowest in Europe to get back to the office?"
People may not agree with its overall premise or conclusion, but I do often think we have an emotional reaction to the NHS which does not help us or it deal with the many problems any behemoth of an organisation would face, that money is presumed to be the only issue, and that the chances if addressing problems is slight.
The British generally have a wildly exaggerated faith in their government. I'm always amazed to hear people talking about a "Rolls Royce civil service" and an NHS which is the "envy of the world" and so on.
Neither are terrible, but compared to most other civilised countries they're at best mediocre.
As others have previously pointed out, the Germans have achieved substantially better healthcare outcomes with a model that is (a) not the NHS, (b) not cruel America either and (c) not worshipped as a god.
To be fair, the Nightingale Hospitals were built quickly, and, for a while it did seem they might be needed.
And they could yet come into their own. If there is a substantial uptick in Covid hospitalisations in the Autumn then it would, presumably, be a very good idea indeed to send them all to segregated plague hospitals rather than filling the general hospitals back up?
We already know that enormous waiting lists for treatment have built up, the lists are still lengthening (because the NHS seems wholly incapable of returning to full capacity due to social distancing and other considerations,) and things are going to get even worse if hospitals start to fill back up with more highly contagious Covid victims. Indeed, the broad consensus would seem to be that tens of thousands of people who've never had Covid are either already dead or are going to die because of the way the healthcare system has buckled under the pressure of the virus. God knows we need to find ways to stop the situation from deteriorating even further and faster than it has already.
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
We didn't use that advantage well.
How did that happen? Did the internet go down in Germany for a couple of weeks?
What seems to have happened was that the British had a plan for dealing with pandemics, and they'd worked jolly hard at it, and they weren't going to throw it away just because some foreigners had discovered that the pandemic they were dealing with wasn't like the one in the plan.
I agree that is what "seems" to have happened, listening to people on here and in real life. What actually happened though is the German lockdown started on 23 March and the UK lockdown started on 23 March.
The facepalm-inducing thing about the British response was the stubborn refusal to do any of the cheapish, reasonable low-disruption things that could have slowed the spread early on, followed eventually by a massively expensive and coercive lockdown.
Yes, the schools closed a full week earlier in Germany than in England. Plus, if you look at numbers of deaths, the epidemic was a week or so ahead in the UK. Relative to the disease, lockdown was at least a week or 2 later than in Germany.
Based on recent experience, it depends on when the First Minister of Scotland announces she's going to do this for next year's Highers. The UK Government will give in a few days after that.
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
Almost as if a highly transmissable pandemic unlike any that has hit Europe before in living memory swept through high population density western Europe.
Germany are much lower population density and got off lightly compared to the rest of western Europe but they are the exception not the rule.
But more importantly - its not a f***ing sport with a f***ing league table.
Of course Germany doesn't have a "much lower population density" compared to the rest of western Europe. It has a higher population density than Italy, France and Spain and others.
In any case, mainland Britain could (should?) have done better than continental countries, being an island. Making it much easier to control borders, and much less of an issue to restrict crossing of borders than in a country like Germany.
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
We didn't use that advantage well.
How did that happen? Did the internet go down in Germany for a couple of weeks?
That's the big question for the inquiry, I reckon.
What I fearfully expect:
The Johnson/Gove/Cummings National Mojo project convinced them that the UK could manage a higher infection rater than other, inferior countries. After all, we could build Nightingale Hospitals and F1 ventilators. And that was so much more fun than planning a boring old lockdown.
To be fair, the Nightingale Hospitals were built quickly, and, for a while it did seem they might be needed.
In a way, that was the trouble. The fact that we could build huge emergency hospitals distracted from whether their need could be avoided.
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
Almost as if a highly transmissable pandemic unlike any that has hit Europe before in living memory swept through high population density western Europe.
Germany are much lower population density and got off lightly compared to the rest of western Europe but they are the exception not the rule.
But more importantly - its not a f***ing sport with a f***ing league table.
Of course Germany doesn't have a "much lower population density" compared to the rest of western Europe. It has a higher population density than Italy, France and Spain and others.
In any case, mainland Britain could (should?) have done better than continental countries, being an island. Making it much easier to control borders, and much less of an issue to restrict crossing of borders than in a country like Germany.
Plus, the UK had a couple of weeks more notice of what was going on. A couple of weeks warning of what could go wrong.
We didn't use that advantage well.
How did that happen? Did the internet go down in Germany for a couple of weeks?
That's the big question for the inquiry, I reckon.
What I fearfully expect:
The Johnson/Gove/Cummings National Mojo project convinced them that the UK could manage a higher infection rater than other, inferior countries. After all, we could build Nightingale Hospitals and F1 ventilators. And that was so much more fun than planning a boring old lockdown.
If all the above is true it wouldnt explain how the UK somehow had a couple of weeks more notice than Germany.
True, though calendar date is a worse measure than progress of the epidemic. Germany locked down at a much lower infection and death rate.
Crabb: "the personal allowance of so-called legacy benefits like JSA, ESA and IS should be raised to match the universal credit increase."
This is an excellent way of pumping money straight into a local economy. No one on benefits is likely to simply save the money as would happen with general 'helicopter' money.
While I think Trump is on more favourable electoral territory, with the focus on law & order, it doesn't really seem - at any point - to have made any significant difference to Biden's polling.
Indeed, look at the 538 or RCP averages (and while I suspect Nate Silver of Democratic sympathies, RCP is slightly right of centre). They both show Biden continuing to be very close to his high watermark polling-wise. (It's hard to have much of a bounce when you're already at 50 percent in the polling, and your peak is 51% back in May.)
I do see Republicans as more motivated. I also think that a lot of the undecideds will break for Trump. But unless that Biden share moves down from 50%, then Trump is going to really find this very difficult.
Could there be something where the polls are not picking up switchers (a form of shy trumpers). In the way there was an issue with the YouGov panel being dominated by the politically engaged
That's a reasonable suggestion . About the first from either the tories or labour or lib dems since covid-19 began
It may sound it to the uninitiated, but it isn't. There wouldn't be time to hold exams in July and release the results before about mid-September - too late for sixth form colleges and universities. So if you are going down that route, you are again accepting predicted grades from teachers as the basis of next year's university entry.
The smart move - and it really would be a smart move - would be to put the university start date to January and pay every lecturer to have a six month sabbatical doing lots of lovely research. That would not only buy time in this emergency situation so the exams could be moved later if necessary, but would mean from hereon in universities would work from real grades not predicted grades (sixth forms could be fudged).
But that would require some intelligence and fortitude from the DfE so is as likely as Nicola Sturgeon declaring staying in the UK is the correct course of action for Scotland.
People may not agree with its overall premise or conclusion, but I do often think we have an emotional reaction to the NHS which does not help us or it deal with the many problems any behemoth of an organisation would face, that money is presumed to be the only issue, and that the chances if addressing problems is slight.
The British generally have a wildly exaggerated faith in their government. I'm always amazed to hear people talking about a "Rolls Royce civil service" and an NHS which is the "envy of the world" and so on.
Neither are terrible, but compared to most other civilised countries they're at best mediocre.
As others have previously pointed out, the Germans have achieved substantially better healthcare outcomes with a model that is (a) not the NHS, (b) not cruel America either and (c) not worshipped as a god.
I'm not sure if you're just talking about Coronavirus, but life expectancy in Germany is slightly lower than the UK, while spending significantly more on healthcare.
Based on recent experience, it depends on when the First Minister of Scotland announces she's going to do this for next year's Highers. The UK Government will give in a few days after that.
Because Highers are only a 1 year course that isn't an issue here.
Portland will soon find out precisely the effects of failing to do any policing for 90+ days.
Cold. Blooded. Murder.
If the Portland police actually arrested the Nazi's who came to town every weekend rather than colaborating with them the world would be a better place.
So they don’t have the right to protest because you disagree with them?
I am intrigued by this story on the beeb about the Tui flight to Cardiff last week.
It looks like a 737, probably an 800. According to Boeing that plane seats up to 189. Tui had 197 people on board, which sounds more like a cattle truck.
By contrast my own local airline, Delta, blocks all middle seats and limits capacity on all flights. Delta also insists on wearing masks from arrival at the airport. Failure to obey an instruction to wear a mask means Delta will ban you.
People may not agree with its overall premise or conclusion, but I do often think we have an emotional reaction to the NHS which does not help us or it deal with the many problems any behemoth of an organisation would face, that money is presumed to be the only issue, and that the chances if addressing problems is slight.
The British generally have a wildly exaggerated faith in their government. I'm always amazed to hear people talking about a "Rolls Royce civil service" and an NHS which is the "envy of the world" and so on.
Neither are terrible, but compared to most other civilised countries they're at best mediocre.
As others have previously pointed out, the Germans have achieved substantially better healthcare outcomes with a model that is (a) not the NHS, (b) not cruel America either and (c) not worshipped as a god.
To be fair, the Nightingale Hospitals were built quickly, and, for a while it did seem they might be needed.
And they could yet come into their own. If there is a substantial uptick in Covid hospitalisations in the Autumn then it would, presumably, be a very good idea indeed to send them all to segregated plague hospitals rather than filling the general hospitals back up?
We already know that enormous waiting lists for treatment have built up, the lists are still lengthening (because the NHS seems wholly incapable of returning to full capacity due to social distancing and other considerations,) and things are going to get even worse if hospitals start to fill back up with more highly contagious Covid victims. Indeed, the broad consensus would seem to be that tens of thousands of people who've never had Covid are either already dead or are going to die because of the way the healthcare system has buckled under the pressure of the virus. God knows we need to find ways to stop the situation from deteriorating even further and faster than it has already.
Is it possible they don’t have the human resource to run the nightingale hospitals as the primary Covid care centers. I struggle to understand why, the UK hospitals are deemed to old or badly built to facilitate both normal care and distancing why the centers have not been used. There is little coverage of what is happening in hospitals and GP surgeries apart from personal anecdotes on here, I’m off to book an appointment for my wife at our local Spanish center, now most of the holiday makers have returned to madrid, i will be able to park a bit nearer. Interesting to see how I get on. I have a blood test every two weeks, no issues getting it, noticed that each time I also get tested for covid, is that happening in the UK.
Portland will soon find out precisely the effects of failing to do any policing for 90+ days.
Cold. Blooded. Murder.
If the Portland police actually arrested the Nazi's who came to town every weekend rather than colaborating with them the world would be a better place.
So they don’t have the right to protest because you disagree with them?
Do you think the Portland police should have been feeding real time information to the head of the Proud Boys as to the location of antifa protests? Do you think the Portland Police should have been giving the proud boys advice on how one of their members could avoid being arrested?
This is all documented in official communications.
Based on recent experience, it depends on when the First Minister of Scotland announces she's going to do this for next year's Highers. The UK Government will give in a few days after that.
I am looking forward to the day Boris Johnson declares that he wants Scotland to vote to leave the UK.
I think that will be worth 20 points in the polls to 'stay' within the first 48 hours.
And the wailing and gnashing of teeth will be wondrous to behold...
Peter Hitchins is ( I think) on Talk Radio today at 11am. Whilst he can be too contrarian and occasionally pompous at times which ruins his generally logical arguments he is spot on about the futility of mask wearing and the misery it is causing and the economic damage it is causing especially to the "fun " industry (cinema ,theatre ,museums and public transport (ok the last might not be fun sometimes but its full of life and its diversity!)
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
I’d also challenge the “on every measure” the response has been woeful.
Clearly they made mistakes.
But on the really really big things - the absolute games changers - they did well.
NHS was not overwhelmed. Nightingales were built
Ventilators were designed and production ramped up. There was no shortage
Vaccine strategy has been well executed on the scientific, procurement and manufacturing side
Didn't get the whole thing because of the paywall but the subtitle says Biden should condemn violence unequivocally, which he already has.
This is what his defenders keep saying.
He hasn't. He condemns violence on all sides and calls for peace and calm. He needs to come out strongly against the rioters and not sympathise with them, or criticise them with caveats. It's not good enough.
Even if he had done what you think he's done (spoiler: he hasn't) no-one on the fence who's not already a Trump hater believes he has - and they're not hearing him - so he'd need to dial up the volume and change his campaign tune anyway.
Didn't get the whole thing because of the paywall but the subtitle says Biden should condemn violence unequivocally, which he already has.
Repeatedly.
Unequivocally.
This is apparently not enough. In fact, it is never enough. Biden has to do something, never actually stated, more. Which he can never do because no one defines what that more is.
I think he needs to go and start punching protesters, telling them to be more peaceful
This site is so full of confirmation bias on Biden, it's laughable.
Peter Hitchins is ( I think) on Talk Radio today at 11am. Whilst he can be too contrarian and occasionally pompous at times which ruins his generally logical arguments he is spot on about the futility of mask wearing and the misery it is causing and the economic damage it is causing especially to the "fun " industry (cinema ,theatre ,museums and public transport (ok the last might not be fun sometimes but its full of life and its diversity!)
They are not futile, critical in the fun industry as you cal it and the failure to adhere to the requirement in Spain is the main reason for the new outbreaks especially from night life and mixing outside your immediate family bubble. You and others continue to post this crap every day as if you want to encourage spread, if that’d the case be honest.
Typical , funded from existing budget, I did not see the list of cuts he would put in place to get the money needed to be able to put these in place. Scotland first procurement will be illegal, no way London will allow that. Hardship fund to allow more bungs to their pals and people and the job centre stuff is just mince , what are they doing at present if not matching people to jobs and given DWP is controlled from London it is just yet another way to keep control in London. The man is an utter arsehole, would just stick to setting up his Tory pals for bungs.
Didn't get the whole thing because of the paywall but the subtitle says Biden should condemn violence unequivocally, which he already has.
Repeatedly.
Unequivocally.
This is apparently not enough. In fact, it is never enough. Biden has to do something, never actually stated, more. Which he can never do because no one defines what that more is.
Your own silly posts on the US election (see "Nazis" upthread) shows why you're totally unqualified to comment on the fact that Biden's starting to go down like a bucket of cold sick amongst swing voters in swing states over the issue of law and order.
It's almost as if you're not really interested in discussing the optimum campaigning strategy for Biden to win and eject Trump but more interested in feeling good about yourself and signalling your own values.
Peter Hitchins is ( I think) on Talk Radio today at 11am. Whilst he can be too contrarian and occasionally pompous at times which ruins his generally logical arguments he is spot on about the futility of mask wearing and the misery it is causing and the economic damage it is causing especially to the "fun " industry (cinema ,theatre ,museums and public transport (ok the last might not be fun sometimes but its full of life and its diversity!)
The government has banned fun. Didn;t you get the memo?
People may not agree with its overall premise or conclusion, but I do often think we have an emotional reaction to the NHS which does not help us or it deal with the many problems any behemoth of an organisation would face, that money is presumed to be the only issue, and that the chances if addressing problems is slight.
The British generally have a wildly exaggerated faith in their government. I'm always amazed to hear people talking about a "Rolls Royce civil service" and an NHS which is the "envy of the world" and so on.
Neither are terrible, but compared to most other civilised countries they're at best mediocre.
As others have previously pointed out, the Germans have achieved substantially better healthcare outcomes with a model that is (a) not the NHS, (b) not cruel America either and (c) not worshipped as a god.
I'm not sure if you're just talking about Coronavirus, but life expectancy in Germany is slightly lower than the UK, while spending significantly more on healthcare.
However they have a much better existance when living , superior health facilities, benefits, pensions etc.
Didn't get the whole thing because of the paywall but the subtitle says Biden should condemn violence unequivocally, which he already has.
Repeatedly.
Unequivocally.
This is apparently not enough. In fact, it is never enough. Biden has to do something, never actually stated, more. Which he can never do because no one defines what that more is.
I think he needs to go and start punching protesters, telling them to be more peaceful
This site is so full of confirmation bias on Biden, it's laughable.
Blind blind blind.
If you want a lucid explanation of why Trump is doing way better in the betting than the polls Nigel Farage's essay for Newsweek is actually not bad.
The US usually requires a protocol approved by the FDA plus a bolus of patients in US hospitals. Data from other countries can’t form the basis of approval. They are looking at waiving that requirement of the U.K. p3 is good
Peter Hitchins is ( I think) on Talk Radio today at 11am. Whilst he can be too contrarian and occasionally pompous at times which ruins his generally logical arguments he is spot on about the futility of mask wearing and the misery it is causing and the economic damage it is causing especially to the "fun " industry (cinema ,theatre ,museums and public transport (ok the last might not be fun sometimes but its full of life and its diversity!)
They are not futile, critical in the fun industry as you cal it and the failure to adhere to the requirement in Spain is the main reason for the new outbreaks especially from night life and mixing outside your immediate family bubble. You and others continue to post this crap every day as if you want to encourage spread, if that’d the case be honest.
SO let me ask you to be honest then - when do you think we shoudl stop wearing them? A month, 3 months , a year , never? Because covid -19 will bubble away at low (and manageable levels) for perhaps years to come (along with other comparable fatal illnesses like flu - more dies of summer flu than covid -19 last week) - The reason some people put up with the argument that these masks are needed is they think they will go away in a short time - To me if the argument is they prevent some infections (still questionable to any degree - WHO agreed until April) then we weill be wearing them forever - Just in case. Tell me when you foresee we dont have to wear them?
Also woudl help me understand your poitn of view if you could explain when you sit in a pub drinking intoxicants you are immune from getting covid 19 and therefore dont need a mask but sat in a cinema eating pic and mix you are not immune and need one?
Didn't get the whole thing because of the paywall but the subtitle says Biden should condemn violence unequivocally, which he already has.
Repeatedly.
Unequivocally.
This is apparently not enough. In fact, it is never enough. Biden has to do something, never actually stated, more. Which he can never do because no one defines what that more is.
Your own silly posts on the US election (see "Nazis" upthread) shows why you're totally unqualified to comment on the fact that Biden's starting to go down like a bucket of cold sick amongst swing voters in swing states over the issue of law and order.
It's almost as if you're not really interested in discussing the optimum campaigning strategy for Biden to win and eject Trump but more interested in feeling good about yourself and signalling your own values.
Fine. We can discount your posts accordingly.
where is the polling or focus groups showing he is going over like a bucket of cold sick? You complain about confirmation bias but you seem to be talking about your own preferences a lot.
Didn't get the whole thing because of the paywall but the subtitle says Biden should condemn violence unequivocally, which he already has.
Repeatedly.
Unequivocally.
This is apparently not enough. In fact, it is never enough. Biden has to do something, never actually stated, more. Which he can never do because no one defines what that more is.
I think he needs to go and start punching protesters, telling them to be more peaceful
This site is so full of confirmation bias on Biden, it's laughable.
Blind blind blind.
You're completely right, the amount of people on this site saying that Biden should condemn the violence when he's condemned it repeatedly all along is absolutely laughable.
When is Trump going to start condemning the violence? What has Trump done to condemn people like the murderer Rittenhouse and others committing violence?
That's a reasonable suggestion . About the first from either the tories or labour or lib dems since covid-19 began
It may sound it to the uninitiated, but it isn't. There wouldn't be time to hold exams in July and release the results before about mid-September - too late for sixth form colleges and universities. So if you are going down that route, you are again accepting predicted grades from teachers as the basis of next year's university entry.
The smart move - and it really would be a smart move - would be to put the university start date to January and pay every lecturer to have a six month sabbatical doing lots of lovely research. That would not only buy time in this emergency situation so the exams could be moved later if necessary, but would mean from hereon in universities would work from real grades not predicted grades (sixth forms could be fudged).
But that would require some intelligence and fortitude from the DfE so is as likely as Nicola Sturgeon declaring staying in the UK is the correct course of action for Scotland.
Do they not get enough holidays without another 6 months.
Remember when sending private messages to colleagues, that if these are on Teams, Slack or other company-owned platform, or a company-logged phone or computer, your IT department, HR department and possibly even your line manager will be able to read them!
Think of a chat in the pub vs posting on social media, for a good example of the difference! < /IT_Director >
Unless you are a thick twunt , saying someone is talking mince is hardly likely to get you in any trouble. I hardly think HR have time to trawl through millions of lines of messages to see if anyone is being catty about someone
And that is why it will be scripted.
But even if it isn't, HR will find the time to search the logs for incriminating material when the CEO asks them if it is possible to fire Mr X without making a redundancy payment.
Didn't get the whole thing because of the paywall but the subtitle says Biden should condemn violence unequivocally, which he already has.
This is what his defenders keep saying.
He hasn't. He condemns violence on all sides and calls for peace and calm. He needs to come out strongly against the rioters and not sympathise with them, or criticise them with caveats. It's not good enough.
Even if he had done what you think he's done (spoiler: he hasn't) no-one on the fence who's not already a Trump hater believes he has - and they're not hearing him - so he'd need to dial up the volume and change his campaign tune anyway.
"The deadly violence we saw overnight in Portland is unacceptable. Shooting in the streets of a great American city is unacceptable. I condemn this violence unequivocally. I condemn violence of every kind by anyone, whether on the left or the right. And I challenge Donald Trump to do the same."
I'd say that is pretty strong condemnation and throws it back at Trump's one sided condemnations. I would expect to see more as this goes on from Biden's camp as so far law and order is Trump's only card currently
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
Almost as if a highly transmissable pandemic unlike any that has hit Europe before in living memory swept through high population density western Europe.
Germany are much lower population density and got off lightly compared to the rest of western Europe but they are the exception not the rule.
But more importantly - its not a f***ing sport with a f***ing league table.
Of course Germany doesn't have a "much lower population density" compared to the rest of western Europe. It has a higher population density than Italy, France and Spain and others.
In any case, mainland Britain could (should?) have done better than continental countries, being an island. Making it much easier to control borders, and much less of an issue to restrict crossing of borders than in a country like Germany.
Am I right in thinking though that Germany’s cities are much more spread out than those of the UK, France, Italy, Spain etc? Far more people living in houses with gardens and not tiny apartments in huge blocks? That was certainly my impression on visiting them, anyway.
That may have had an impact on transmission.
Having lived a few years in Germany, Italy and the UK, I have no idea. I certainly seemed to know more people in the UK with a house and garden then in either Germany or Italy. The UK has a much higher proportion of home-owners than Germany. But what does strike me is that the proportion of rental flats in Germany that are shit is much lower than in the UK.
Remember when sending private messages to colleagues, that if these are on Teams, Slack or other company-owned platform, or a company-logged phone or computer, your IT department, HR department and possibly even your line manager will be able to read them!
Think of a chat in the pub vs posting on social media, for a good example of the difference! < /IT_Director >
Unless you are a thick twunt , saying someone is talking mince is hardly likely to get you in any trouble. I hardly think HR have time to trawl through millions of lines of messages to see if anyone is being catty about someone
And that is why it will be scripted.
But even if it isn't, HR will find the time to search the logs for incriminating material when the CEO asks them if it is possible to fire Mr X without making a redundancy payment.
Unfortunately we do live in an increasing surveillance world even at work . Quite depressing really
Didn't get the whole thing because of the paywall but the subtitle says Biden should condemn violence unequivocally, which he already has.
Repeatedly.
Unequivocally.
This is apparently not enough. In fact, it is never enough. Biden has to do something, never actually stated, more. Which he can never do because no one defines what that more is.
I think he needs to go and start punching protesters, telling them to be more peaceful
This site is so full of confirmation bias on Biden, it's laughable.
Blind blind blind.
Not so, quite a few of us have taken Michael Moore's warning seriously.
Personally I am also expecting the election to hinge on Trump's voter suppression tactics and potential litigation, disputing any Biden win.
Nothing at all shocking about Portland - this is the template Trump will use to win the election. People want to vote for someone else? Shoot them! He's already incited armed militia to storm state houses and armed militia to intimidate voters, so this is hardly a big step we're seeing in Portland.
Trump is a patriot. If you don't support Trump you aren't a patriot. If you aren't a patriot then All Good Men must step forward and defend to your death their interpretation of the constitution. God Bless America.
We've clearly been among the worst hit in the world, but the data included in the BBC's reporting say's we're 4th worst deaths per capita rate in the world (excluding micro nations), with Italy, Spain, Sweden and us being pretty comparable in terms of European nations with really bad death rates.
That doesn't undermine that our numbers show just how badly we've been affected, but of the truly large Western European nations only Germany has done well, France a bit better, and Spain and Italy about the same, and without Boris Johnson as a factor. As a continent we look to have done collectively badly despite very different systems and governments.
I’d also challenge the “on every measure” the response has been woeful.
Clearly they made mistakes.
But on the really really big things - the absolute games changers - they did well.
NHS was not overwhelmed. Nightingales were built
Ventilators were designed and production ramped up. There was no shortage
Vaccine strategy has been well executed on the scientific, procurement and manufacturing side
But I guess none of that counts?
The thing is that, despite doing those things well, there's a large number of dead people, larger than elsewhere.
Conclusion: we need to question whether the things the UK did well were the game changers after all. Perhaps boring old gumshoe public health was the thing to major on.
Don't forget that Phase III started in South Africa and Brazil almost six weeks ago. If the placebo group has gotten a fair number of CV19 cases, and the vaccine group have (ideally) got none, and there have been no side effects, then it's possible...
Although given that there are - what two weeks? - between the doses, any data is very, very preliminary at this stage...
It’s a double blinded trial, so that data simply isn’t there yet to make such a decision.
But presumably the organisers will get told of any confirmed CV19 cases, and can then check it against whether someone was given the vaccine or not.
For the record, given all the dangers (in particular the risk of creating something that kills more people than the disease), it would be insane to approve a vaccine without proper testing.
That would unblind the trial and destroy the statistical validity
Peter Hitchins is ( I think) on Talk Radio today at 11am. Whilst he can be too contrarian and occasionally pompous at times which ruins his generally logical arguments he is spot on about the futility of mask wearing and the misery it is causing and the economic damage it is causing especially to the "fun " industry (cinema ,theatre ,museums and public transport (ok the last might not be fun sometimes but its full of life and its diversity!)
They are not futile, critical in the fun industry as you cal it and the failure to adhere to the requirement in Spain is the main reason for the new outbreaks especially from night life and mixing outside your immediate family bubble. You and others continue to post this crap every day as if you want to encourage spread, if that’d the case be honest.
SO let me ask you to be honest then - when do you think we shoudl stop wearing them? A month, 3 months , a year , never? Because covid -19 will bubble away at low (and manageable levels) for perhaps years to come (along with other comparable fatal illnesses like flu - more dies of summer flu than covid -19 last week) - The reason some people put up with the argument that these masks are needed is they think they will go away in a short time - To me if the argument is they prevent some infections (still questionable to any degree - WHO agreed until April) then we weill be wearing them forever - Just in case. Tell me when you foresee we dont have to wear them?
Also woudl help me understand your poitn of view if you could explain when you sit in a pub drinking intoxicants you are immune from getting covid 19 and therefore dont need a mask but sat in a cinema eating pic and mix you are not immune and need one?
You should only be sat with your bubble without a mask if not you should wear a mask unless physically drinking or are 1.5 meters away. Many people, not in the uk which for some reason wearing a mask is a sign of weakness, will continue to wear mask as they believe their a valuable protection in general, as to enforced wearing, hopefully ended by next summer when a viable vaccine is in place, if not what’s the problem it’s no big imposition.
Remember when sending private messages to colleagues, that if these are on Teams, Slack or other company-owned platform, or a company-logged phone or computer, your IT department, HR department and possibly even your line manager will be able to read them!
Think of a chat in the pub vs posting on social media, for a good example of the difference! < /IT_Director >
Unless you are a thick twunt , saying someone is talking mince is hardly likely to get you in any trouble. I hardly think HR have time to trawl through millions of lines of messages to see if anyone is being catty about someone
And that is why it will be scripted.
But even if it isn't, HR will find the time to search the logs for incriminating material when the CEO asks them if it is possible to fire Mr X without making a redundancy payment.
You would still need to be pretty stupid to be sending stuff that was offensive enough to get you sacked. Innocuous comments about someone liking their own voice or talking rubbish is not likely to stand up to a sacking.
Comments
(I find myself in rare agreement with Socialist Voice on this point.)
By coincidence a day or so ago I had a chat with Younger Son who says that he has reached a stage in negotiations for a substantial contract where he really needs a face to face, rather than Zoom, meeting with the customer. "There are things you can't say on Zoom!" Or words to that effect.
https://unherd.com/2020/08/lets-be-honest-the-nhs-is-awful/
People may not agree with its overall premise or conclusion, but I do often think we have an emotional reaction to the NHS which does not help us or it deal with the many problems any behemoth of an organisation would face, that money is presumed to be the only issue, and that the chances if addressing problems is slight.
The owner of an Aberdeen bar which had it's application fast tracked for a Pop up tent it has now emerged donated £20k to the Conservative party
Liam Kerr Conservative MSP Intervened and demanded special treatment for Soul Bar while OTHER premises had to wait
Republicans in the House and Senate have already shown they are willing to go along with any shit in order to "win". No doubt it will end up in the courts, but who knows if Trump-appointed judges will rule against Trump.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1300326879354851328
"Why do you think they have caused global warming?"
Said Piers Corbyn. Probably.
In any case, mainland Britain could (should?) have done better than continental countries, being an island. Making it much easier to control borders, and much less of an issue to restrict crossing of borders than in a country like Germany.
https://twitter.com/DPMcBride/status/1300080360626192384
A 7% difference, however...
We didn't use that advantage well.
That may have had an impact on transmission.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_lockdowns
What I fearfully expect:
The Johnson/Gove/Cummings National Mojo project convinced them that the UK could manage a higher infection rater than other, inferior countries. After all, we could build Nightingale Hospitals and F1 ventilators. And that was so much more fun than planning a boring old lockdown.
I wouldn't want to miss it!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Cygnus
The facepalm-inducing thing about the British response was the stubborn refusal to do any of the cheapish, reasonable low-disruption things that could have slowed the spread early on, followed eventually by a massively expensive and coercive lockdown.
Neither are terrible, but compared to most other civilised countries they're at best mediocre.
I've been saying this for days. The Democrats are walking straight into a trap:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/the-centre-of-american-politics-has-collapsed-fkz29tblq
Unequivocally.
This is apparently not enough. In fact, it is never enough. Biden has to do something, never actually stated, more. Which he can never do because no one defines what that more is.
Coercive is very misleading, especially in comparison with the rules in France, Italy or Spain. Here you could even drive 350 miles when supposed to be under quarantine. And as long as you were selling your chocolate in the traditional shapes rather than that of an easter bunny the police were not very interested.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/30/working-parents-have-had-enough/
Parent activist excoriates Government shambles over schools.
We already know that enormous waiting lists for treatment have built up, the lists are still lengthening (because the NHS seems wholly incapable of returning to full capacity due to social distancing and other considerations,) and things are going to get even worse if hospitals start to fill back up with more highly contagious Covid victims. Indeed, the broad consensus would seem to be that tens of thousands of people who've never had Covid are either already dead or are going to die because of the way the healthcare system has buckled under the pressure of the virus. God knows we need to find ways to stop the situation from deteriorating even further and faster than it has already.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1300326879354851328
This is an excellent way of pumping money straight into a local economy. No one on benefits is likely to simply save the money as would happen with general 'helicopter' money.
The smart move - and it really would be a smart move - would be to put the university start date to January and pay every lecturer to have a six month sabbatical doing lots of lovely research. That would not only buy time in this emergency situation so the exams could be moved later if necessary, but would mean from hereon in universities would work from real grades not predicted grades (sixth forms could be fudged).
But that would require some intelligence and fortitude from the DfE so is as likely as Nicola Sturgeon declaring staying in the UK is the correct course of action for Scotland.
Could be for Standard Grades though.
https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1300329647415193600?s=20
It looks like a 737, probably an 800. According to Boeing that plane seats up to 189. Tui had 197 people on board, which sounds more like a cattle truck.
By contrast my own local airline, Delta, blocks all middle seats and limits capacity on all flights. Delta also insists on wearing masks from arrival at the airport. Failure to obey an instruction to wear a mask means Delta will ban you.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-53966897
I have a blood test every two weeks, no issues getting it, noticed that each time I also get tested for covid, is that happening in the UK.
This is all documented in official communications.
I think that will be worth 20 points in the polls to 'stay' within the first 48 hours.
And the wailing and gnashing of teeth will be wondrous to behold...
Clearly they made mistakes.
But on the really really big things - the absolute games changers - they did well.
NHS was not overwhelmed. Nightingales were built
Ventilators were designed and production ramped up. There was no shortage
Vaccine strategy has been well executed on the scientific, procurement and manufacturing side
But I guess none of that counts?
He hasn't. He condemns violence on all sides and calls for peace and calm. He needs to come out strongly against the rioters and not sympathise with them, or criticise them with caveats. It's not good enough.
Even if he had done what you think he's done (spoiler: he hasn't) no-one on the fence who's not already a Trump hater believes he has - and they're not hearing him - so he'd need to dial up the volume and change his campaign tune anyway.
Blind blind blind.
The man is an utter arsehole, would just stick to setting up his Tory pals for bungs.
It's almost as if you're not really interested in discussing the optimum campaigning strategy for Biden to win and eject Trump but more interested in feeling good about yourself and signalling your own values.
Fine. We can discount your posts accordingly.
The US usually requires a protocol approved by the FDA plus a bolus of patients in US hospitals. Data from other countries can’t form the basis of approval. They are looking at waiving that requirement of the U.K. p3 is good
Tell me when you foresee we dont have to wear them?
Also woudl help me understand your poitn of view if you could explain when you sit in a pub drinking intoxicants you are immune from getting covid 19 and therefore dont need a mask but sat in a cinema eating pic and mix you are not immune and need one?
When is Trump going to start condemning the violence? What has Trump done to condemn people like the murderer Rittenhouse and others committing violence?
But even if it isn't, HR will find the time to search the logs for incriminating material when the CEO asks them if it is possible to fire Mr X without making a redundancy payment.
I'd say that is pretty strong condemnation and throws it back at Trump's one sided condemnations. I would expect to see more as this goes on from Biden's camp as so far law and order is Trump's only card currently
Personally I am also expecting the election to hinge on Trump's voter suppression tactics and potential litigation, disputing any Biden win.
I fear Trump will win by hook or by crook.
Trump is a patriot. If you don't support Trump you aren't a patriot. If you aren't a patriot then All Good Men must step forward and defend to your death their interpretation of the constitution. God Bless America.
Conclusion: we need to question whether the things the UK did well were the game changers after all. Perhaps boring old gumshoe public health was the thing to major on.