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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Another day and another set of front pages featuring the beleaguered EdSec Gavin Williamson

Once again EdSec Gavin Williamson is all over the papers pic.twitter.com/1D9mOFrm1R

Read the full story here

Gadfly

First!

Foxy

Second, like Trump.

Mysticrose

I don't particularly like the Mail stable but I will give them their due. When they sniff out cant and hypocrisy they really have a go.

Jonathan

Has Williamson resigned yet?

Nigelb

A very interesting article on one of the leading scholars at the Chinese communist party’s Central Party School, recently turned critic of Xi, and now in exile in the US:
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/08/19/asia-pacific/communist-party-insider-denounced-xi/

IanB2

Hard to see any Tory surviving that DM front page

Nigelb

IanB2 said:

Hard to see any Tory surviving that DM front page

If anyone read the Star, pretty awful for Johnson, too.
Except the Star is almost as invisible as he is.

MaxPB

I think sacking the idiot is the best way to draw a line under it and, but no idea who would take over.

OldKingCole

Good morning everyone. Bright here this morning, although the forecast for later this afternoon and this evening isn't good. Still Essex pulled their chestnuts out of the fire at Hove yesterday, and I've found a very successful ancestor in my Family History researches. Pity he wasn't someone to be particularly proud of!

DecrepiterJohnL

Gavin Williamson will be saved imo, and more power removed from Ofqual and the Department for Education to Number 10 as part of the ongoing Boris/Cummings power grab. The Telegraph reports that both Ofqual's Chair and Chief Executive are under threat. My guess is Williamson will remain to shield Boris from blame when the September reopening of schools goes pear-shaped, and Brexit at the end of the year.

More interesting is that MPs are starting to question the wisdom of the last couple of decades which is to hive off responsibility to executive agencies like Ofqual in order to shield the government from poor outcomes and bad decisions.

Simon Hoare, a senior Tory MP, said: "Number 10 needs to think about how all of these executive agencies, quangos and arms-length organisations work. They are taking, on a daily basis, political decisions over which ministers have no control, no right of question, no right of direction and no right of overrule.

"We need a root and branch review which means we might have to have a larger civil service, more departmental ministers, but the time has come where unaccountable quangos are past their sell-by dates."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/18/ofqual-chief-staring-sack-mp-calls-quango-absolutely-useless/

(Any relation?)

DecrepiterJohnL

OldKingCole said:

Good morning everyone. Bright here this morning, although the forecast for later this afternoon and this evening isn't good. Still Essex pulled their chestnuts out of the fire at Hove yesterday, and I've found a very successful ancestor in my Family History researches. Pity he wasn't someone to be particularly proud of!

You are descended from Gavin Williamson?

OldKingCole

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OldKingCole said:

Good morning everyone. Bright here this morning, although the forecast for later this afternoon and this evening isn't good. Still Essex pulled their chestnuts out of the fire at Hove yesterday, and I've found a very successful ancestor in my Family History researches. Pity he wasn't someone to be particularly proud of!

You are descended from Gavin Williamson?

Given the ages he's more likely to be descended from me. But I hope (think) I brought my children up to have a better sense of responsibility.

eristdoof

CarlottaVance said:

LadyG said:

Question:

I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

You can. But you'll be asked to declare any countries you've been in in the previous 14 days - so you can commit a criminal offence and lie, or tell the truth and have wasted your trip to Turkey

The point was to spend the 14 days quarrantine in Turkey, rather than Scunthorpe.

Jonathan

MaxPB said:

I think sacking the idiot is the best way to draw a line under it and, but no idea who would take over.

Javid

ydoethur

‘Robert Halfon, the Conservative chair of the education select committee, said the prime minister must personally lead the back-to-school campaign in order to ensure confidence.’

Er - no. Nothing would be more likely to see the government forfeit what little confidence is left on this issue than having imbeciles like Johnson and Cummings in direct charge of this. Not even Williamson, improbable though that may seem.

Halfon is usually very good on education but he’s slipped up there.

He would - and I mean this seriously - have been better calling for the ESC to take charge of it themselves. They’re quite good.

OldKingCole

eristdoof said:

CarlottaVance said:

LadyG said:

Question:

I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

You can. But you'll be asked to declare any countries you've been in in the previous 14 days - so you can commit a criminal offence and lie, or tell the truth and have wasted your trip to Turkey

The point was to spend the 14 days quarrantine in Turkey, rather than Scunthorpe.

A month's holiday? With the second two weeks being optional? Sounds like a job without many demands. Is PM Johnson posting here anonymously?

Foxy

ydoethur said:

‘Robert Halfon, the Conservative chair of the education select committee, said the prime minister must personally lead the back-to-school campaign in order to ensure confidence.’

Er - no. Nothing would be more likely to see the government forfeit what little confidence is left on this issue than having imbeciles like Johnson and Cummings in direct charge of this. Not even Williamson, improbable though that may seem.

Halfon is usually very good on education but he’s slipped up there.

He would - and I mean this seriously - have been better calling for the ESC to take charge of it themselves. They’re quite good.

The key to having schools re-open is having protocols that work, and are not chaotic and contradictory. If parents and teachers have confidence then there won't be an issue.

CarlottaVance

eristdoof said:

CarlottaVance said:

LadyG said:

Question:

I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

You can. But you'll be asked to declare any countries you've been in in the previous 14 days - so you can commit a criminal offence and lie, or tell the truth and have wasted your trip to Turkey

The point was to spend the 14 days quarrantine in Turkey, rather than Scunthorpe.

Not what LadyG wrote:

what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

CarlottaVance

He’ll stay in place until the Schools go back - if that goes ok, a stay of execution. If it’s a cock-up then he can be dumped then.

IanB2

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Gavin Williamson will be saved imo, and more power removed from Ofqual and the Department for Education to Number 10 as part of the ongoing Boris/Cummings power grab. The Telegraph reports that both Ofqual's Chair and Chief Executive are under threat. My guess is Williamson will remain to shield Boris from blame when the September reopening of schools goes pear-shaped, and Brexit at the end of the year.

More interesting is that MPs are starting to question the wisdom of the last couple of decades which is to hive off responsibility to executive agencies like Ofqual in order to shield the government from poor outcomes and bad decisions.

Simon Hoare, a senior Tory MP, said: "Number 10 needs to think about how all of these executive agencies, quangos and arms-length organisations work. They are taking, on a daily basis, political decisions over which ministers have no control, no right of question, no right of direction and no right of overrule.

"We need a root and branch review which means we might have to have a larger civil service, more departmental ministers, but the time has come where unaccountable quangos are past their sell-by dates."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/18/ofqual-chief-staring-sack-mp-calls-quango-absolutely-useless/

(Any relation?)

Didn’t we have a bonfire of the quangos once before? One that created more problems than it solved.

IanB2

CarlottaVance said:

eristdoof said:

CarlottaVance said:

LadyG said:

Question:

I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

You can. But you'll be asked to declare any countries you've been in in the previous 14 days - so you can commit a criminal offence and lie, or tell the truth and have wasted your trip to Turkey

The point was to spend the 14 days quarrantine in Turkey, rather than Scunthorpe.

Not what LadyG wrote:

what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

What he wrote initially. Until he realised he would need to declare his previous 14 days’ travel.

Foxy

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

Foxy

IanB2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Gavin Williamson will be saved imo, and more power removed from Ofqual and the Department for Education to Number 10 as part of the ongoing Boris/Cummings power grab. The Telegraph reports that both Ofqual's Chair and Chief Executive are under threat. My guess is Williamson will remain to shield Boris from blame when the September reopening of schools goes pear-shaped, and Brexit at the end of the year.

More interesting is that MPs are starting to question the wisdom of the last couple of decades which is to hive off responsibility to executive agencies like Ofqual in order to shield the government from poor outcomes and bad decisions.

Simon Hoare, a senior Tory MP, said: "Number 10 needs to think about how all of these executive agencies, quangos and arms-length organisations work. They are taking, on a daily basis, political decisions over which ministers have no control, no right of question, no right of direction and no right of overrule.

"We need a root and branch review which means we might have to have a larger civil service, more departmental ministers, but the time has come where unaccountable quangos are past their sell-by dates."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/18/ofqual-chief-staring-sack-mp-calls-quango-absolutely-useless/

(Any relation?)

Didn’t we have a bonfire of the quangos once before? One that created more problems than it solved.

Pretty much all incoming governments in decades promise a bonfire of Quangos, then wind up expanding them. They are good for both evading responsibility and also for placing cronies in sinecures.

Casino_Royale

Betfair has finally paid out on the Democratic nomination race - yay!

Hillary Clinton had absurd odds right till the end.

They haven't paid out on the Democratic vice-presidential nomination yet though. It looks like that's happening 9-11pm EDT tonight so again should pay out by 4am ish tomorrow morning.

IanB2

Foxy said:

IanB2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Gavin Williamson will be saved imo, and more power removed from Ofqual and the Department for Education to Number 10 as part of the ongoing Boris/Cummings power grab. The Telegraph reports that both Ofqual's Chair and Chief Executive are under threat. My guess is Williamson will remain to shield Boris from blame when the September reopening of schools goes pear-shaped, and Brexit at the end of the year.

More interesting is that MPs are starting to question the wisdom of the last couple of decades which is to hive off responsibility to executive agencies like Ofqual in order to shield the government from poor outcomes and bad decisions.

Simon Hoare, a senior Tory MP, said: "Number 10 needs to think about how all of these executive agencies, quangos and arms-length organisations work. They are taking, on a daily basis, political decisions over which ministers have no control, no right of question, no right of direction and no right of overrule.

"We need a root and branch review which means we might have to have a larger civil service, more departmental ministers, but the time has come where unaccountable quangos are past their sell-by dates."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/18/ofqual-chief-staring-sack-mp-calls-quango-absolutely-useless/

(Any relation?)

Didn’t we have a bonfire of the quangos once before? One that created more problems than it solved.

Pretty much all incoming governments in decades promise a bonfire of Quangos, then wind up expanding them. They are good for both evading responsibility and also for placing cronies in sinecures.

The current government is forcing through a level of cronyism that would have PB Tories howling until midnight if it had happened under Labour.

Metatron

What does it say about all the current govt minsters that not one has tried to be ahead of the curve and resign over an impending debacle like the current education crisis which now people like Fraser Nelson are saying was inevitable from the day exams were cancelled?

DavidL

On schools my son has been back 2 days now. He is not going in until later today because there is nowhere to go when he is not in class. Teachers are complaining it is the same for them. Even their staff common room has been converted into a class and they have nowhere to go when they don't have a teaching period. As they are not supposed to leave the building or stand in the corridor it is a problem.

The playground is marked into bubbles with fencing. You can play football etc in your bubble but if your ball goes into someone else's bubble you don't get it back. The senior year, which my son now is, gets to go into the town at lunch but none of the other children do. So far as possible you do not go within 2m of anyone not in your bubble and are discouraged from approaching staff. Work is being handed out and in some cases returned electronically. Where that is not possible the scripts are being left on a table for 72 hours before the recipient touches them. There is a complicated 1 way system through the building and restrictions on which doors can be used.

In short things are a very long way from normal. This seems the most severe scenario of the 3 the school planned. I am surprised they are still at this level as things slowly slacken off elsewhere but there is no doubt that they are very aware that any outbreak of Covid will close the school once again.

eek

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

DecrepiterJohnL

USA Republican nomination betting (Betfair)

Trump: backed off the boards
Pence: 1.02 (was 1.04 and flicked out to 1.05 yesterday)

DavidL

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

I think sacking the idiot is the best way to draw a line under it and, but no idea who would take over.

Javid

Has he not just taken a job with Morgan Stanley to make proper money again?

OnlyLivingBoy

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Foxy

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

nichomar

IanB2 said:

Foxy said:

IanB2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Gavin Williamson will be saved imo, and more power removed from Ofqual and the Department for Education to Number 10 as part of the ongoing Boris/Cummings power grab. The Telegraph reports that both Ofqual's Chair and Chief Executive are under threat. My guess is Williamson will remain to shield Boris from blame when the September reopening of schools goes pear-shaped, and Brexit at the end of the year.

More interesting is that MPs are starting to question the wisdom of the last couple of decades which is to hive off responsibility to executive agencies like Ofqual in order to shield the government from poor outcomes and bad decisions.

Simon Hoare, a senior Tory MP, said: "Number 10 needs to think about how all of these executive agencies, quangos and arms-length organisations work. They are taking, on a daily basis, political decisions over which ministers have no control, no right of question, no right of direction and no right of overrule.

"We need a root and branch review which means we might have to have a larger civil service, more departmental ministers, but the time has come where unaccountable quangos are past their sell-by dates."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/18/ofqual-chief-staring-sack-mp-calls-quango-absolutely-useless/

(Any relation?)

Didn’t we have a bonfire of the quangos once before? One that created more problems than it solved.

Pretty much all incoming governments in decades promise a bonfire of Quangos, then wind up expanding them. They are good for both evading responsibility and also for placing cronies in sinecures.

The current government is forcing through a level of cronyism that would have PB Tories howling until midnight if it had happened under Labour.

It will ensure they have plenty of money for the next election. I’m amazed they have got away with reorganizing PHE functions in the middle of the pandemic proudly boasting that even more Money will be thrown to their mates in the private sector.

tlg86

@DavidL - That doesn't sound like much fun for anyone.

DavidL

Foxy said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

White flag was quite good.

OnlyLivingBoy

Foxy said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

Yeah. And let's face it, with this shower of shit in charge it's not going to work anyway.

JohnLilburne

IanB2 said:

CarlottaVance said:

eristdoof said:

CarlottaVance said:

LadyG said:

Question:

I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

You can. But you'll be asked to declare any countries you've been in in the previous 14 days - so you can commit a criminal offence and lie, or tell the truth and have wasted your trip to Turkey

The point was to spend the 14 days quarrantine in Turkey, rather than Scunthorpe.

Not what LadyG wrote:

what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

What he wrote initially. Until he realised he would need to declare his previous 14 days’ travel.

Bulgaria is in any case on the quarantine list.

OnlyLivingBoy

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

White flag was quite good.

Not something that should be said, even in jest

DavidL

tlg86 said:

@DavidL - That doesn't sound like much fun for anyone.

He's delighted to be back and see all his pals again but I think that the teachers are finding it pretty tough. They are doing large blocks of time with the same class so that movement through the school is limited. Yesterday my son had 3 hours of statistics, I mean, jeez.

What is clear is that getting kids back into secondary schools safely requires an immense amount of effort and planning affecting every aspect of school life including break times, timetables, meals, work distribution, etc etc. This is not something, if it is to be done right, that schools can start thinking about in September.

Big_G_NorthWales

eek said:

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

I did not say anything of the kind

The political decisions by all four nations may have been the right thing to do but the problems if has caused are huge and it personally worries me for my granddaughters university placing when she takes her A levels next year

I think we should all accept that the quangos and politicians across the land have failed comprehensively and I really do worry about the long term damage to education due to the debasing of the whole system

OnlyLivingBoy

On topic: I don't think I've ever heard anyone on here say anything positive about Gavin Williamson, but my wife met him once and was quite impressed, thought he seemed like a nice guy who was on top of his brief. Just throwing that into the mix.

JohnLilburne

IanB2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Gavin Williamson will be saved imo, and more power removed from Ofqual and the Department for Education to Number 10 as part of the ongoing Boris/Cummings power grab. The Telegraph reports that both Ofqual's Chair and Chief Executive are under threat. My guess is Williamson will remain to shield Boris from blame when the September reopening of schools goes pear-shaped, and Brexit at the end of the year.

More interesting is that MPs are starting to question the wisdom of the last couple of decades which is to hive off responsibility to executive agencies like Ofqual in order to shield the government from poor outcomes and bad decisions.

Simon Hoare, a senior Tory MP, said: "Number 10 needs to think about how all of these executive agencies, quangos and arms-length organisations work. They are taking, on a daily basis, political decisions over which ministers have no control, no right of question, no right of direction and no right of overrule.

"We need a root and branch review which means we might have to have a larger civil service, more departmental ministers, but the time has come where unaccountable quangos are past their sell-by dates."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/18/ofqual-chief-staring-sack-mp-calls-quango-absolutely-useless/

(Any relation?)

Didn’t we have a bonfire of the quangos once before? One that created more problems than it solved.

Ofqual is a Non-Ministerial Department (the same as Ofsted). Although it will be treated as one of the "education group" of quangos for administrative purposes, it actually reports direct to Parliament. The reason it was set up in this way was to give it a semblance of independence to counter the accusation that grades were being dumbed down for political gain.

Certainly the advice they gave to Ministers that exam results could be fixed by means of an algorithm was seriously screwed, and you have to question their professional competence or indeed whether they had their own agenda.

Pulpstar

Casino_Royale said:

Betfair has finally paid out on the Democratic nomination race - yay!

Hillary Clinton had absurd odds right till the end.

They haven't paid out on the Democratic vice-presidential nomination yet though. It looks like that's happening 9-11pm EDT tonight so again should pay out by 4am ish tomorrow morning.

Max withdrawal to paypal is 5k in one go btw.

Nigelb

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

‘Vision purpose and narrative’ ?
So being paid for unnecessary PR, and given access to data they don’t require.

algarkirk

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

‘Robert Halfon, the Conservative chair of the education select committee, said the prime minister must personally lead the back-to-school campaign in order to ensure confidence.’

Er - no. Nothing would be more likely to see the government forfeit what little confidence is left on this issue than having imbeciles like Johnson and Cummings in direct charge of this. Not even Williamson, improbable though that may seem.

Halfon is usually very good on education but he’s slipped up there.

He would - and I mean this seriously - have been better calling for the ESC to take charge of it themselves. They’re quite good.

The key to having schools re-open is having protocols that work, and are not chaotic and contradictory. If parents and teachers have confidence then there won't be an issue.

I wish it were so simple. The virus does not obey the rules of politics. The matter will be judged neither on protocols or advance confidence. By mid October we will have an idea whether 9 million school children, 2 million undergraduates and a million+ staff all working together in enclosed spaces indirectly kills large numbers of people and/or brings the country to a halt. I seriously doubt whether anyone has, or could have, any idea where we will be by October. Who is in titular charge of the virus and education will make no difference.

eek

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

I did not say anything of the kind

The political decisions by all four nations may have been the right thing to do but the problems if has caused are huge and it personally worries me for my granddaughters university placing when she takes her A levels next year

I think we should all accept that the quangos and politicians across the land have failed comprehensively and I really do worry about the long term damage to education due to the debasing of the whole system

You said Sky had reported that the funding restrictions had been resolved - as I said they hadn't been...

The most remarkable thing about the remaining Tory supporters on this forum is that the party is able to continually fool them all the time and they continually fall for it.

Jonathan

OnlyLivingBoy said:

On topic: I don't think I've ever heard anyone on here say anything positive about Gavin Williamson, but my wife met him once and was quite impressed, thought he seemed like a nice guy who was on top of his brief. Just throwing that into the mix.

Did your wife purchase the fireplace?

Scott_xP

https://twitter.com/movement46/status/1295984198407401476

tlg86

algarkirk said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

‘Robert Halfon, the Conservative chair of the education select committee, said the prime minister must personally lead the back-to-school campaign in order to ensure confidence.’

Er - no. Nothing would be more likely to see the government forfeit what little confidence is left on this issue than having imbeciles like Johnson and Cummings in direct charge of this. Not even Williamson, improbable though that may seem.

Halfon is usually very good on education but he’s slipped up there.

He would - and I mean this seriously - have been better calling for the ESC to take charge of it themselves. They’re quite good.

The key to having schools re-open is having protocols that work, and are not chaotic and contradictory. If parents and teachers have confidence then there won't be an issue.

I wish it were so simple. The virus does not obey the rules of politics. The matter will be judged neither on protocols or advance confidence. By mid October we will have an idea whether 9 million school children, 2 million undergraduates and a million+ staff all working together in enclosed spaces indirectly kills large numbers of people and/or brings the country to a halt. I seriously doubt whether anyone has, or could have, any idea where we will be by October. Who is in titular charge of the virus and education will make no difference.

Are students actually going to university in September?

OnlyLivingBoy

Jonathan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

On topic: I don't think I've ever heard anyone on here say anything positive about Gavin Williamson, but my wife met him once and was quite impressed, thought he seemed like a nice guy who was on top of his brief. Just throwing that into the mix.

Did your wife purchase the fireplace?

Ha ha no, we are already well supplied with nice Victorian fireplaces in our house.

Scott_xP

https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/1295983432577822721

Scott_xP

https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1295984941390606336

OldKingCole

DavidL said:

tlg86 said:

@DavidL - That doesn't sound like much fun for anyone.

He's delighted to be back and see all his pals again but I think that the teachers are finding it pretty tough. They are doing large blocks of time with the same class so that movement through the school is limited. Yesterday my son had 3 hours of statistics, I mean, jeez.

What is clear is that getting kids back into secondary schools safely requires an immense amount of effort and planning affecting every aspect of school life including break times, timetables, meals, work distribution, etc etc. This is not something, if it is to be done right, that schools can start thinking about in September.

Granddaughter-in-law, a secondary school teacher in S Essex was worried about the implications when we spoke with her last. However, ATM she's up to her ears with last year's A level students.
She teaches in a Tory-voting borough with one of the lowest percentages of graduates in the country. Wonder what the algorithm did to them.

eek

tlg86 said:

algarkirk said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

‘Robert Halfon, the Conservative chair of the education select committee, said the prime minister must personally lead the back-to-school campaign in order to ensure confidence.’

Er - no. Nothing would be more likely to see the government forfeit what little confidence is left on this issue than having imbeciles like Johnson and Cummings in direct charge of this. Not even Williamson, improbable though that may seem.

Halfon is usually very good on education but he’s slipped up there.

He would - and I mean this seriously - have been better calling for the ESC to take charge of it themselves. They’re quite good.

The key to having schools re-open is having protocols that work, and are not chaotic and contradictory. If parents and teachers have confidence then there won't be an issue.

I wish it were so simple. The virus does not obey the rules of politics. The matter will be judged neither on protocols or advance confidence. By mid October we will have an idea whether 9 million school children, 2 million undergraduates and a million+ staff all working together in enclosed spaces indirectly kills large numbers of people and/or brings the country to a halt. I seriously doubt whether anyone has, or could have, any idea where we will be by October. Who is in titular charge of the virus and education will make no difference.

Are students actually going to university in September?

Eek twin B is - why delay things.

DavidL

algarkirk said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

‘Robert Halfon, the Conservative chair of the education select committee, said the prime minister must personally lead the back-to-school campaign in order to ensure confidence.’

Er - no. Nothing would be more likely to see the government forfeit what little confidence is left on this issue than having imbeciles like Johnson and Cummings in direct charge of this. Not even Williamson, improbable though that may seem.

Halfon is usually very good on education but he’s slipped up there.

He would - and I mean this seriously - have been better calling for the ESC to take charge of it themselves. They’re quite good.

The key to having schools re-open is having protocols that work, and are not chaotic and contradictory. If parents and teachers have confidence then there won't be an issue.

I wish it were so simple. The virus does not obey the rules of politics. The matter will be judged neither on protocols or advance confidence. By mid October we will have an idea whether 9 million school children, 2 million undergraduates and a million+ staff all working together in enclosed spaces indirectly kills large numbers of people and/or brings the country to a halt. I seriously doubt whether anyone has, or could have, any idea where we will be by October. Who is in titular charge of the virus and education will make no difference.

I have tried to give an indication of how difficult this is going to be but I wouldn't pretend that even that will be sufficient to prevent outbreaks of this virus. What I fear we are going to get prior to any vaccine is disrupted education where schools, colleges and Universities are shut down on an individual basis as a result of outbreaks in the same way as we have seen for pubs but affecting far, far more people.

The online teaching resources need to be beefed up now in anticipation of this happening because it will happen in a significant number of educational establishments. It is just inevitable.

Big_G_NorthWales

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

I did not say anything of the kind

The political decisions by all four nations may have been the right thing to do but the problems if has caused are huge and it personally worries me for my granddaughters university placing when she takes her A levels next year

I think we should all accept that the quangos and politicians across the land have failed comprehensively and I really do worry about the long term damage to education due to the debasing of the whole system

You said Sky had reported that the funding restrictions had been resolved - as I said they hadn't been...

If Sky said that then I was quoting Sky

But the whole thing is a mess and condemnation should be across the UK to the quangos and politicians.

We had the ridiculous situation here in Wales that Drakeford only followed England after their announcement admitting they were really not for the change

Watching Sky and BBC they are increasingly becoming the English broadcasting corporation virtually ignoring Wales

OldKingCole

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

I did not say anything of the kind

The political decisions by all four nations may have been the right thing to do but the problems if has caused are huge and it personally worries me for my granddaughters university placing when she takes her A levels next year

I think we should all accept that the quangos and politicians across the land have failed comprehensively and I really do worry about the long term damage to education due to the debasing of the whole system

Lot of sympathy here. Younger Grandson is in the same academic year. Takes A levels in June 2021.

DecrepiterJohnL

OT there is a new book out on Britain's second-best journalist/Prime Minister, who was fortunate not to be faced by problems as grave as algorithmic A-levels.

Winston Churchill
A Life in the News
Richard Toye

Traces Churchill's life in the news from cradle to grave, showing how tensions between tradition and novelty played into his constantly evolving media image

Drawing on a massive amount of media coverage of Churchill, much of it previously forgotten, and explores ordinary people's reactions to news coverage of Churchill

A tale of tight deadlines, off-the-record briefings and smoke-filled newsrooms, of wartime summits that were turned into stage-managed global media events

A story of rapidly changing technology, in which the telegraph, the telephone, radio, newsreel and (to a lesser extent) television all played their parts

Dealing with themes of censorship and propaganda, the book is of compelling relevance in the era of 'fake news'
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/winston-churchill-9780198803980

OldKingCole

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Jonathan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

On topic: I don't think I've ever heard anyone on here say anything positive about Gavin Williamson, but my wife met him once and was quite impressed, thought he seemed like a nice guy who was on top of his brief. Just throwing that into the mix.

Did your wife purchase the fireplace?

Ha ha no, we are already well supplied with nice Victorian fireplaces in our house.

Aren't you lucky not to have Gavin's assistance!

tlg86

eek said:

tlg86 said:

algarkirk said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

‘Robert Halfon, the Conservative chair of the education select committee, said the prime minister must personally lead the back-to-school campaign in order to ensure confidence.’

Er - no. Nothing would be more likely to see the government forfeit what little confidence is left on this issue than having imbeciles like Johnson and Cummings in direct charge of this. Not even Williamson, improbable though that may seem.

Halfon is usually very good on education but he’s slipped up there.

He would - and I mean this seriously - have been better calling for the ESC to take charge of it themselves. They’re quite good.

The key to having schools re-open is having protocols that work, and are not chaotic and contradictory. If parents and teachers have confidence then there won't be an issue.

I wish it were so simple. The virus does not obey the rules of politics. The matter will be judged neither on protocols or advance confidence. By mid October we will have an idea whether 9 million school children, 2 million undergraduates and a million+ staff all working together in enclosed spaces indirectly kills large numbers of people and/or brings the country to a halt. I seriously doubt whether anyone has, or could have, any idea where we will be by October. Who is in titular charge of the virus and education will make no difference.

Are students actually going to university in September?

Eek twin B is - why delay things.

I thought there were particular concerns about universities given the age profile of the staff. It won't be much fun without clubs and quite possibly pubs to frequent. More time for study, I guess...

DavidL

OldKingCole said:

DavidL said:

tlg86 said:

@DavidL - That doesn't sound like much fun for anyone.

He's delighted to be back and see all his pals again but I think that the teachers are finding it pretty tough. They are doing large blocks of time with the same class so that movement through the school is limited. Yesterday my son had 3 hours of statistics, I mean, jeez.

What is clear is that getting kids back into secondary schools safely requires an immense amount of effort and planning affecting every aspect of school life including break times, timetables, meals, work distribution, etc etc. This is not something, if it is to be done right, that schools can start thinking about in September.

Granddaughter-in-law, a secondary school teacher in S Essex was worried about the implications when we spoke with her last. However, ATM she's up to her ears with last year's A level students.
She teaches in a Tory-voting borough with one of the lowest percentages of graduates in the country. Wonder what the algorithm did to them.

Whatever it did will have been undone now and they will have the best results that they have ever had. For what they are worth.

Philip_Thompson

eek said:

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

No I did not.

I said the issues would be resolved, just like it was in Scotland.
The general cap on places has been lifted already and was instantly, just like it was in Scotland.

There is a specific and separate cap on Medicine, the government have already said they're urgently working with the sector to resolve it.

So exactly as I said would happen.

Casino_Royale

Foxy said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

No you wouldn't.

You're just saying that to make a political point.

algarkirk

JohnLilburne said:

IanB2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Gavin Williamson will be saved imo, and more power removed from Ofqual and the Department for Education to Number 10 as part of the ongoing Boris/Cummings power grab. The Telegraph reports that both Ofqual's Chair and Chief Executive are under threat. My guess is Williamson will remain to shield Boris from blame when the September reopening of schools goes pear-shaped, and Brexit at the end of the year.

More interesting is that MPs are starting to question the wisdom of the last couple of decades which is to hive off responsibility to executive agencies like Ofqual in order to shield the government from poor outcomes and bad decisions.

Simon Hoare, a senior Tory MP, said: "Number 10 needs to think about how all of these executive agencies, quangos and arms-length organisations work. They are taking, on a daily basis, political decisions over which ministers have no control, no right of question, no right of direction and no right of overrule.

"We need a root and branch review which means we might have to have a larger civil service, more departmental ministers, but the time has come where unaccountable quangos are past their sell-by dates."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/18/ofqual-chief-staring-sack-mp-calls-quango-absolutely-useless/

(Any relation?)

Didn’t we have a bonfire of the quangos once before? One that created more problems than it solved.

Ofqual is a Non-Ministerial Department (the same as Ofsted). Although it will be treated as one of the "education group" of quangos for administrative purposes, it actually reports direct to Parliament. The reason it was set up in this way was to give it a semblance of independence to counter the accusation that grades were being dumbed down for political gain.

Certainly the advice they gave to Ministers that exam results could be fixed by means of an algorithm was seriously screwed, and you have to question their professional competence or indeed whether they had their own agenda.

It does not matter what you delegate; ministers are ultimately responsible. Williamson can't absolve himself by saying he has received assurances from whoever or whatever Quango. Quangos are all created by parliament and are under the direction of government. The minister leads a gigantic staff whose job is to drill down and check stuff, and his job is to take the blame.

The obvious truth, the elephant in the room, is that with no schools since March and no exams there is insufficient information to assess students accurately because vast amounts of relevant data are missing. The only thing you can be sure of it that you cannot know to whom to mistakes have been made, either under the original scheme or the hasty upgrade revision.

What should have happened (IMHO and imperfect) is that Years 11 and 13 should have been told that they will face exams, even if they are delayed a few weeks, so crack on with working.

Philip_Thompson

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

I did not say anything of the kind

The political decisions by all four nations may have been the right thing to do but the problems if has caused are huge and it personally worries me for my granddaughters university placing when she takes her A levels next year

I think we should all accept that the quangos and politicians across the land have failed comprehensively and I really do worry about the long term damage to education due to the debasing of the whole system

You said Sky had reported that the funding restrictions had been resolved - as I said they hadn't been...

The most remarkable thing about the remaining Tory supporters on this forum is that the party is able to continually fool them all the time and they continually fall for it.

They have been.

The medicine restrictions are a separate issue from the funding restrictions. You are conflating two separate issues.

Nigelb

algarkirk said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

‘Robert Halfon, the Conservative chair of the education select committee, said the prime minister must personally lead the back-to-school campaign in order to ensure confidence.’

Er - no. Nothing would be more likely to see the government forfeit what little confidence is left on this issue than having imbeciles like Johnson and Cummings in direct charge of this. Not even Williamson, improbable though that may seem.

Halfon is usually very good on education but he’s slipped up there.

He would - and I mean this seriously - have been better calling for the ESC to take charge of it themselves. They’re quite good.

The key to having schools re-open is having protocols that work, and are not chaotic and contradictory. If parents and teachers have confidence then there won't be an issue.

I wish it were so simple. The virus does not obey the rules of politics. The matter will be judged neither on protocols or advance confidence. By mid October we will have an idea whether 9 million school children, 2 million undergraduates and a million+ staff all working together in enclosed spaces indirectly kills large numbers of people and/or brings the country to a halt. I seriously doubt whether anyone has, or could have, any idea where we will be by October. Who is in titular charge of the virus and education will make no difference.

On the contrary.
If someone had the sense to roll out on a mass scale the saliva test just approved by the FDA in the US, which is free to copy, can be run by any lab the same day, only costs around £5 a time, and can be pooled, it could be done in comparative safety.
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-issues-emergency-use-authorization-yale-school-public-health

Big_G_NorthWales

OldKingCole said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

I did not say anything of the kind

The political decisions by all four nations may have been the right thing to do but the problems if has caused are huge and it personally worries me for my granddaughters university placing when she takes her A levels next year

I think we should all accept that the quangos and politicians across the land have failed comprehensively and I really do worry about the long term damage to education due to the debasing of the whole system

Lot of sympathy here. Younger Grandson is in the same academic year. Takes A levels in June 2021.

The concern for my granddaughter, who was the top student in her school last year for GCSE's and is expected to gain all her A level grades, is that she will not get to her chosen university due to this years distortion of the system

Nigelb

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1295984941390606336

‘His best’ is not exactly a high bar.
Not even close to being up to the job.

Casino_Royale

Pulpstar said:

Casino_Royale said:

Betfair has finally paid out on the Democratic nomination race - yay!

Hillary Clinton had absurd odds right till the end.

They haven't paid out on the Democratic vice-presidential nomination yet though. It looks like that's happening 9-11pm EDT tonight so again should pay out by 4am ish tomorrow morning.

Max withdrawal to paypal is 5k in one go btw.

But I don't think that limit applies to withdrawal to debit cards.

Admittedly you have to wait a couple of days for it to clear though.

Philip_Thompson

Nigelb said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1295984941390606336

‘His best’ is not exactly a high bar.
Not even close to being up to the job.

He's done the right thing and not one of the 4 Education Secretaries across the UK did any better or any different.

Foxy

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

I did not say anything of the kind

The political decisions by all four nations may have been the right thing to do but the problems if has caused are huge and it personally worries me for my granddaughters university placing when she takes her A levels next year

I think we should all accept that the quangos and politicians across the land have failed comprehensively and I really do worry about the long term damage to education due to the debasing of the whole system

You said Sky had reported that the funding restrictions had been resolved - as I said they hadn't been...

The most remarkable thing about the remaining Tory supporters on this forum is that the party is able to continually fool them all the time and they continually fall for it.

Most Medical Schools are now 25% over committed. Never mind the quality, feel the width!

Though I think the stated £50 000 per annum cost of a Medical School place is greatly exagerrated. The way to progress in Academia does not involve teaching undergraduates, it is all about research and grants. A little rebalancing on this is way overdue, most medical education comes from NHS frontoviks like yours truly.

Nigelb

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/1295983432577822721

A full scale reorganisation of a large enterprise is disruptive at the best of times. That it’s being led by someone with no background in public health at all, no real health qualifications, and no track record carrying out such a task, beggars belief.

Big_G_NorthWales

algarkirk said:

JohnLilburne said:

IanB2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Gavin Williamson will be saved imo, and more power removed from Ofqual and the Department for Education to Number 10 as part of the ongoing Boris/Cummings power grab. The Telegraph reports that both Ofqual's Chair and Chief Executive are under threat. My guess is Williamson will remain to shield Boris from blame when the September reopening of schools goes pear-shaped, and Brexit at the end of the year.

More interesting is that MPs are starting to question the wisdom of the last couple of decades which is to hive off responsibility to executive agencies like Ofqual in order to shield the government from poor outcomes and bad decisions.

Simon Hoare, a senior Tory MP, said: "Number 10 needs to think about how all of these executive agencies, quangos and arms-length organisations work. They are taking, on a daily basis, political decisions over which ministers have no control, no right of question, no right of direction and no right of overrule.

"We need a root and branch review which means we might have to have a larger civil service, more departmental ministers, but the time has come where unaccountable quangos are past their sell-by dates."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/18/ofqual-chief-staring-sack-mp-calls-quango-absolutely-useless/

(Any relation?)

Didn’t we have a bonfire of the quangos once before? One that created more problems than it solved.

Ofqual is a Non-Ministerial Department (the same as Ofsted). Although it will be treated as one of the "education group" of quangos for administrative purposes, it actually reports direct to Parliament. The reason it was set up in this way was to give it a semblance of independence to counter the accusation that grades were being dumbed down for political gain.

Certainly the advice they gave to Ministers that exam results could be fixed by means of an algorithm was seriously screwed, and you have to question their professional competence or indeed whether they had their own agenda.

It does not matter what you delegate; ministers are ultimately responsible. Williamson can't absolve himself by saying he has received assurances from whoever or whatever Quango. Quangos are all created by parliament and are under the direction of government. The minister leads a gigantic staff whose job is to drill down and check stuff, and his job is to take the blame.

The obvious truth, the elephant in the room, is that with no schools since March and no exams there is insufficient information to assess students accurately because vast amounts of relevant data are missing. The only thing you can be sure of it that you cannot know to whom to mistakes have been made, either under the original scheme or the hasty upgrade revision.

What should have happened (IMHO and imperfect) is that Years 11 and 13 should have been told that they will face exams, even if they are delayed a few weeks, so crack on with working.

Your last paragraph is spot on and let's hope for the future exams are protected and go ahead.

We cannot allow this situation to arise again

malcolmg

IanB2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Gavin Williamson will be saved imo, and more power removed from Ofqual and the Department for Education to Number 10 as part of the ongoing Boris/Cummings power grab. The Telegraph reports that both Ofqual's Chair and Chief Executive are under threat. My guess is Williamson will remain to shield Boris from blame when the September reopening of schools goes pear-shaped, and Brexit at the end of the year.

More interesting is that MPs are starting to question the wisdom of the last couple of decades which is to hive off responsibility to executive agencies like Ofqual in order to shield the government from poor outcomes and bad decisions.

Simon Hoare, a senior Tory MP, said: "Number 10 needs to think about how all of these executive agencies, quangos and arms-length organisations work. They are taking, on a daily basis, political decisions over which ministers have no control, no right of question, no right of direction and no right of overrule.

"We need a root and branch review which means we might have to have a larger civil service, more departmental ministers, but the time has come where unaccountable quangos are past their sell-by dates."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/18/ofqual-chief-staring-sack-mp-calls-quango-absolutely-useless/

(Any relation?)

Didn’t we have a bonfire of the quangos once before? One that created more problems than it solved.

Certainly created more Quangos, where would all the chums and toffs get jobs if they were scrapped. You could not have them being civil servants.

MikeSmithson

Casino_Royale said:

Foxy said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

No you wouldn't.

You're just saying that to make a political point.

That tends to happen a lot on PB - posters make political points

Philip_Thompson

MikeSmithson said:

Casino_Royale said:

Foxy said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

No you wouldn't.

You're just saying that to make a political point.

That tends to happen a lot on PB - posters make political points

Sometimes they can even make betting posts.

noneoftheabove

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

I did not say anything of the kind

The political decisions by all four nations may have been the right thing to do but the problems if has caused are huge and it personally worries me for my granddaughters university placing when she takes her A levels next year

I think we should all accept that the quangos and politicians across the land have failed comprehensively and I really do worry about the long term damage to education due to the debasing of the whole system

You said Sky had reported that the funding restrictions had been resolved - as I said they hadn't been...

If Sky said that then I was quoting Sky

But the whole thing is a mess and condemnation should be across the UK to the quangos and politicians.

We had the ridiculous situation here in Wales that Drakeford only followed England after their announcement admitting they were really not for the change

Watching Sky and BBC they are increasingly becoming the English broadcasting corporation virtually ignoring Wales

The population ration between England and Wales is about 18:1, what do you expect? What would be a fair proportion of time dedicated to Welsh issues on Sky, a commercial TV station broadcasting to both, amongst others?

Foxy

Casino_Royale said:

Foxy said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

No you wouldn't.

You're just saying that to make a political point.

No, the Chinese have never done anything dodgy with my data, while at the core of government here people have a track record of misusing and mishandling data.

malcolmg

Casino_Royale said:

Pulpstar said:

Casino_Royale said:

Betfair has finally paid out on the Democratic nomination race - yay!

Hillary Clinton had absurd odds right till the end.

They haven't paid out on the Democratic vice-presidential nomination yet though. It looks like that's happening 9-11pm EDT tonight so again should pay out by 4am ish tomorrow morning.

Max withdrawal to paypal is 5k in one go btw.

But I don't think that limit applies to withdrawal to debit cards.

Admittedly you have to wait a couple of days for it to clear though.

Any money I get clears immediately nowadays , only ones that take a day or two are international transfers, days of cheques etc were long gone I thought.
Even large amounts, ie 50K , if you have informed bank clear in a couple of hours.

DavidL

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

JohnLilburne said:

IanB2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Gavin Williamson will be saved imo, and more power removed from Ofqual and the Department for Education to Number 10 as part of the ongoing Boris/Cummings power grab. The Telegraph reports that both Ofqual's Chair and Chief Executive are under threat. My guess is Williamson will remain to shield Boris from blame when the September reopening of schools goes pear-shaped, and Brexit at the end of the year.

More interesting is that MPs are starting to question the wisdom of the last couple of decades which is to hive off responsibility to executive agencies like Ofqual in order to shield the government from poor outcomes and bad decisions.

Simon Hoare, a senior Tory MP, said: "Number 10 needs to think about how all of these executive agencies, quangos and arms-length organisations work. They are taking, on a daily basis, political decisions over which ministers have no control, no right of question, no right of direction and no right of overrule.

"We need a root and branch review which means we might have to have a larger civil service, more departmental ministers, but the time has come where unaccountable quangos are past their sell-by dates."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/18/ofqual-chief-staring-sack-mp-calls-quango-absolutely-useless/

(Any relation?)

Didn’t we have a bonfire of the quangos once before? One that created more problems than it solved.

Ofqual is a Non-Ministerial Department (the same as Ofsted). Although it will be treated as one of the "education group" of quangos for administrative purposes, it actually reports direct to Parliament. The reason it was set up in this way was to give it a semblance of independence to counter the accusation that grades were being dumbed down for political gain.

Certainly the advice they gave to Ministers that exam results could be fixed by means of an algorithm was seriously screwed, and you have to question their professional competence or indeed whether they had their own agenda.

It does not matter what you delegate; ministers are ultimately responsible. Williamson can't absolve himself by saying he has received assurances from whoever or whatever Quango. Quangos are all created by parliament and are under the direction of government. The minister leads a gigantic staff whose job is to drill down and check stuff, and his job is to take the blame.

The obvious truth, the elephant in the room, is that with no schools since March and no exams there is insufficient information to assess students accurately because vast amounts of relevant data are missing. The only thing you can be sure of it that you cannot know to whom to mistakes have been made, either under the original scheme or the hasty upgrade revision.

What should have happened (IMHO and imperfect) is that Years 11 and 13 should have been told that they will face exams, even if they are delayed a few weeks, so crack on with working.

Your last paragraph is spot on and let's hope for the future exams are protected and go ahead.

We cannot allow this situation to arise again

My fear is that it might unless we take steps to ensure any disruption in the provision of education is instantly and comprehensively covered by online teaching, which it certainly wasn't in the last term. If a significant number of kids have suffered such disruption the cry of unfair will be heard in respect of exams, of that there is no doubt.

Big_G_NorthWales

Nigelb said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1295984941390606336

‘His best’ is not exactly a high bar.
Not even close to being up to the job.

I agree and he never was fit for purpose

I expect conservative backbenchers are becoming increasingly worried by the unsuitability of Boris in this crisis and the failure of his ministers

If I was a conservative mp I would already have written my letter to the 1922 and ready to send it in in the early new year

ClippP

ydoethur said:

‘Robert Halfon, the Conservative chair of the education select committee, said the prime minister must personally lead the back-to-school campaign in order to ensure confidence.’

Er - no. Nothing would be more likely to see the government forfeit what little confidence is left on this issue than having imbeciles like Johnson and Cummings in direct charge of this. Not even Williamson, improbable though that may seem.

Halfon is usually very good on education but he’s slipped up there.

He would - and I mean this seriously - have been better calling for the ESC to take charge of it themselves. They’re quite good.

I quite agree, Mr Ydoethur. If you want to re-establish confidence, the last person you would want to have around is Johnson. Closely followed by Cummings and Gove.

Rexel56

I’m still puzzled about the apparent aversion to “grade inflation” and why Williams demanded that it be avoided. This year’s cohort are the first to have taken the new, more rigorous GCSE specifications - where these more academically demanding qualifications not meant to lead to higher pass rates at A level? If not, why not?

noneoftheabove

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That is shocking, completely unnecessary from the publics point of view. That data is very valuable, if we are going to give it to the private sector (we shouldnt, but if), lets at least sell it and get some decent cash for it.

Either corruption or extreme incompetence.

Big_G_NorthWales

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

I did not say anything of the kind

The political decisions by all four nations may have been the right thing to do but the problems if has caused are huge and it personally worries me for my granddaughters university placing when she takes her A levels next year

I think we should all accept that the quangos and politicians across the land have failed comprehensively and I really do worry about the long term damage to education due to the debasing of the whole system

You said Sky had reported that the funding restrictions had been resolved - as I said they hadn't been...

If Sky said that then I was quoting Sky

But the whole thing is a mess and condemnation should be across the UK to the quangos and politicians.

We had the ridiculous situation here in Wales that Drakeford only followed England after their announcement admitting they were really not for the change

Watching Sky and BBC they are increasingly becoming the English broadcasting corporation virtually ignoring Wales

The population ration between England and Wales is about 18:1, what do you expect? What would be a fair proportion of time dedicated to Welsh issues on Sky, a commercial TV station broadcasting to both, amongst others?

More than 0% definitely

OnlyLivingBoy

Casino_Royale said:

Foxy said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

No you wouldn't.

You're just saying that to make a political point.

I would certainly trust Huawei more - and I am literally typing this on a Huawei phone so I am not just making a point!

noneoftheabove

Big_G_NorthWales said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

I did not say anything of the kind

The political decisions by all four nations may have been the right thing to do but the problems if has caused are huge and it personally worries me for my granddaughters university placing when she takes her A levels next year

I think we should all accept that the quangos and politicians across the land have failed comprehensively and I really do worry about the long term damage to education due to the debasing of the whole system

You said Sky had reported that the funding restrictions had been resolved - as I said they hadn't been...

If Sky said that then I was quoting Sky

But the whole thing is a mess and condemnation should be across the UK to the quangos and politicians.

We had the ridiculous situation here in Wales that Drakeford only followed England after their announcement admitting they were really not for the change

Watching Sky and BBC they are increasingly becoming the English broadcasting corporation virtually ignoring Wales

The population ration between England and Wales is about 18:1, what do you expect? What would be a fair proportion of time dedicated to Welsh issues on Sky, a commercial TV station broadcasting to both, amongst others?

More than 0% definitely

OK, well they are achieving that comfortably. Next.

DavidL

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

Foxy said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

No you wouldn't.

You're just saying that to make a political point.

I would certainly trust Huawei more - and I am literally typing this on a Huawei phone so I am not just making a point!

你的忠诚已经注意到

noneoftheabove

Nigelb said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/1295983432577822721

A full scale reorganisation of a large enterprise is disruptive at the best of times. That it’s being led by someone with no background in public health at all, no real health qualifications, and no track record carrying out such a task, beggars belief.

The situation is much worse than that, as the leader has a track record of failure, appears to have been appointed out of cronyism and therefore wont have the confidence of other senior staff or organisations she will need to work closely with.

Casino_Royale

MikeSmithson said:

Casino_Royale said:

Foxy said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

No you wouldn't.

You're just saying that to make a political point.

That tends to happen a lot on PB - posters make political points

Indeed which is why we shouldn't always take what they say literally.

rottenborough

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Nigelb said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1295984941390606336

‘His best’ is not exactly a high bar.
Not even close to being up to the job.

I agree and he never was fit for purpose

I expect conservative backbenchers are becoming increasingly worried by the unsuitability of Boris in this crisis and the failure of his ministers

If I was a conservative mp I would already have written my letter to the 1922 and ready to send it in in the early new year

One backbencher yesterday predicted (anon) that one more f up like this week from Johnson and the letters would start to go in.

Casino_Royale

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

Foxy said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

No you wouldn't.

You're just saying that to make a political point.

I would certainly trust Huawei more - and I am literally typing this on a Huawei phone so I am not just making a point!

No you wouldn't.

If you do you're either ignorant or naive.

malcolmg

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

I did not say anything of the kind

The political decisions by all four nations may have been the right thing to do but the problems if has caused are huge and it personally worries me for my granddaughters university placing when she takes her A levels next year

I think we should all accept that the quangos and politicians across the land have failed comprehensively and I really do worry about the long term damage to education due to the debasing of the whole system

You said Sky had reported that the funding restrictions had been resolved - as I said they hadn't been...

If Sky said that then I was quoting Sky

But the whole thing is a mess and condemnation should be across the UK to the quangos and politicians.

We had the ridiculous situation here in Wales that Drakeford only followed England after their announcement admitting they were really not for the change

Watching Sky and BBC they are increasingly becoming the English broadcasting corporation virtually ignoring Wales

The population ration between England and Wales is about 18:1, what do you expect? What would be a fair proportion of time dedicated to Welsh issues on Sky, a commercial TV station broadcasting to both, amongst others?

They have always been the English Broadcasting Corporation

noneoftheabove

Rexel56 said:

I’m still puzzled about the apparent aversion to “grade inflation” and why Williams demanded that it be avoided. This year’s cohort are the first to have taken the new, more rigorous GCSE specifications - where these more academically demanding qualifications not meant to lead to higher pass rates at A level? If not, why not?

Old uns dont like young uns having better grades than them. Old uns are in charge.

Casino_Royale

Foxy said:

Casino_Royale said:

Foxy said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

No you wouldn't.

You're just saying that to make a political point.

No, the Chinese have never done anything dodgy with my data, while at the core of government here people have a track record of misusing and mishandling data.

Truly one of the most laughable posts I've ever seen on this site.

OldKingCole

noneoftheabove said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That is shocking, completely unnecessary from the publics point of view. That data is very valuable, if we are going to give it to the private sector (we shouldnt, but if), lets at least sell it and get some decent cash for it.

Either corruption or extreme incompetence.

The former, I would, sadly, expect. What has our country become?

rottenborough

Alert readers will recall that Johnson had to reboot his government back in mid summer with a small series of well touted speeches and trips out and about.

I predict we will have another relaunch and he announces he's getting a grip and back on top of things in early September.

OldKingCole

malcolmg said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

@Big_G_NorthWales @Philip_Thompson I thought you said all student place issues had been fixed.

Yet I come back from a day of holiday and instantly find https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53830172 as the top story in the BBC education section.

Now I really shouldn't be surprised that you believed the headline and ignored the detail but even so.

I did not say anything of the kind

The political decisions by all four nations may have been the right thing to do but the problems if has caused are huge and it personally worries me for my granddaughters university placing when she takes her A levels next year

I think we should all accept that the quangos and politicians across the land have failed comprehensively and I really do worry about the long term damage to education due to the debasing of the whole system

You said Sky had reported that the funding restrictions had been resolved - as I said they hadn't been...

If Sky said that then I was quoting Sky

But the whole thing is a mess and condemnation should be across the UK to the quangos and politicians.

We had the ridiculous situation here in Wales that Drakeford only followed England after their announcement admitting they were really not for the change

Watching Sky and BBC they are increasingly becoming the English broadcasting corporation virtually ignoring Wales

The population ration between England and Wales is about 18:1, what do you expect? What would be a fair proportion of time dedicated to Welsh issues on Sky, a commercial TV station broadcasting to both, amongst others?

They have always been the English Broadcasting Corporation

At least with the office in Manchester it's not quite so London-centric.

Big_G_NorthWales

DavidL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

JohnLilburne said:

IanB2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Gavin Williamson will be saved imo, and more power removed from Ofqual and the Department for Education to Number 10 as part of the ongoing Boris/Cummings power grab. The Telegraph reports that both Ofqual's Chair and Chief Executive are under threat. My guess is Williamson will remain to shield Boris from blame when the September reopening of schools goes pear-shaped, and Brexit at the end of the year.

More interesting is that MPs are starting to question the wisdom of the last couple of decades which is to hive off responsibility to executive agencies like Ofqual in order to shield the government from poor outcomes and bad decisions.

Simon Hoare, a senior Tory MP, said: "Number 10 needs to think about how all of these executive agencies, quangos and arms-length organisations work. They are taking, on a daily basis, political decisions over which ministers have no control, no right of question, no right of direction and no right of overrule.

"We need a root and branch review which means we might have to have a larger civil service, more departmental ministers, but the time has come where unaccountable quangos are past their sell-by dates."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/18/ofqual-chief-staring-sack-mp-calls-quango-absolutely-useless/

(Any relation?)

Didn’t we have a bonfire of the quangos once before? One that created more problems than it solved.

Ofqual is a Non-Ministerial Department (the same as Ofsted). Although it will be treated as one of the "education group" of quangos for administrative purposes, it actually reports direct to Parliament. The reason it was set up in this way was to give it a semblance of independence to counter the accusation that grades were being dumbed down for political gain.

Certainly the advice they gave to Ministers that exam results could be fixed by means of an algorithm was seriously screwed, and you have to question their professional competence or indeed whether they had their own agenda.

It does not matter what you delegate; ministers are ultimately responsible. Williamson can't absolve himself by saying he has received assurances from whoever or whatever Quango. Quangos are all created by parliament and are under the direction of government. The minister leads a gigantic staff whose job is to drill down and check stuff, and his job is to take the blame.

The obvious truth, the elephant in the room, is that with no schools since March and no exams there is insufficient information to assess students accurately because vast amounts of relevant data are missing. The only thing you can be sure of it that you cannot know to whom to mistakes have been made, either under the original scheme or the hasty upgrade revision.

What should have happened (IMHO and imperfect) is that Years 11 and 13 should have been told that they will face exams, even if they are delayed a few weeks, so crack on with working.

Your last paragraph is spot on and let's hope for the future exams are protected and go ahead.

We cannot allow this situation to arise again

My fear is that it might unless we take steps to ensure any disruption in the provision of education is instantly and comprehensively covered by online teaching, which it certainly wasn't in the last term. If a significant number of kids have suffered such disruption the cry of unfair will be heard in respect of exams, of that there is no doubt.

I know private schools are toxic to some on the left but during this crisis my son, who is head of IT at our local private school, has put in place distance teaching and the students have not missed any education throughout the crisis.

He is currently issuing laptops to all the staff and students for the new term in September with online learning and teaching becoming very much the day to day activity for the students. He has of course worked full time and more throughout this crisis putting in these changes

The problem is that the public sector do not seem to be anywhere near this level of development and maybe the question should be why not. Of course it would require billions in investment but the way covid has fundamentally changed everything that investment should be found

OnlyLivingBoy

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

Foxy said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Foxy said:

Not only do Dido's old firm get a nice wad of dosh to run Test and Trace, they get to keep your data.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1295869619836801025?s=09

That's pretty stupid. There will be people who refuse to give their data because they don't want some American consultancy firm playing with it - fuck it, I might be one of them. Still, all that data will be useful when McKinsey want to pitch for work with the US health firms that will be invited to run the NHS when the US trade deal goes through.

Frankly I would trust Huawei more than McKinsey and Dido with my data.

No you wouldn't.

You're just saying that to make a political point.

I would certainly trust Huawei more - and I am literally typing this on a Huawei phone so I am not just making a point!

No you wouldn't.

If you do you're either ignorant or naive.

The CCP are obviously an even bigger bunch of gangsters and crooks than the Tory party, but the latter have a far greater ability to fuck up my life, owing to proximity.