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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If there was a betting market on Williamson not being Educatio

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited August 2020 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If there was a betting market on Williamson not being Education Secretary on New Year’s Day I know which side of the bet I’d be backing

BREAKING: Gavin Williamson to perform a full U-turn and award teachers' predicted grades for both A-levels and GCSEs. This will be announced at 4pm #alevels2020 #alevels #gcses2020 #gcseresults #exams

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  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977
    First as Wales get told that Teacher Assessments will be used for all results

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53807854
  • Options
    Wales doing the right thing and using A-Level and GCSE teacher assessed grades.

    Now just waiting for England to do the right thing too at 4pm.

    Good news that the government is in touch and listening to people rather than refusing to bend.
  • Options
    eek said:

    First as Wales get told that Teacher Assessments will be used for all results

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53807854

    Well done Labour!
  • Options
    Why it took Labour so long I'll never know, very silly
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    From the last thread, detected cases are rising.

    England cases by specimen date for yesterday -

    image
    image
  • Options

    eek said:

    First as Wales get told that Teacher Assessments will be used for all results

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53807854

    Well done Labour!
    I'm sure you'll be equally equitable and say "Well done Tories!" at 4pm. 😇
  • Options
    Sorry for the minor Vanilla snafu.

    We hired Matt Hancock as the new PB intern and well you know...

    Things should be fixed now.
  • Options
    I'm not following @TSE in on his bet against Gavin Williamson. Look at Hancock and PHE. This qualifications row is perfect cover for Dominic Cummings to smash Ofqual and the Department for Education, taking power to Number 10 and leaving the hapless Williamson as impotent placeman and mouthpiece.
  • Options

    eek said:

    First as Wales get told that Teacher Assessments will be used for all results

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53807854

    Well done Labour!
    I'm sure you'll be equally equitable and say "Well done Tories!" at 4pm. 😇
    Both seem to have made a mountain out of a molehill.

    Well done both on coming to the right conclusion, eventually.
  • Options

    I'm not following @TSE in on his bet against Gavin Williamson. Look at Hancock and PHE. This qualifications row is perfect cover for Dominic Cummings to smash Ofqual and the Department for Education, taking power to Number 10 and leaving the hapless Williamson as impotent placeman and mouthpiece.

    It was purposely enigmatic to allow me to claim victory in either circumstances.

    But really I think Williamson will go in the next reshuffle, reportedly next month, he's been forced into a level of u-turn that Hancock hasn't had to make.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977

    Wales doing the right thing and using A-Level and GCSE teacher assessed grades.

    Now just waiting for England to do the right thing too at 4pm.

    Good news that the government is in touch and listening to people rather than refusing to bend.

    And proof that even though this disaster was obvious last Monday it took them a whole week to do the obvious thing...
  • Options
    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.
  • Options
    eek said:

    Wales doing the right thing and using A-Level and GCSE teacher assessed grades.

    Now just waiting for England to do the right thing too at 4pm.

    Good news that the government is in touch and listening to people rather than refusing to bend.

    And proof that even though this disaster was obvious last Monday it took them a whole week to do the obvious thing...
    They tried something with the 'triple lock' idea. It wasn't good enough. Glad they've moved on rather than digging their heels in.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    I'm not completely sure what's going on with this site at the moment, but I'll try this again...

    FPT:
    RobD said:

    nichomar said:


    Just 2 deaths in England hospitals, both over 80.

    Weekend effect, remember
    Due to the very low numbers I doubt there is much weekend effect anymore
    The numbers to track are New infections and hospitalizations, followed bi icu occupancy, deaths are a lagging indicator.
    Those are flat, aren't they?
    The hospital numbers have been trending downwards more-or-less continuously since mid-April. I'm much more interested to see the latest update on these than I am the (very low) death figures.

    Cases identified by positive test have now been creeping steadily upwards for six weeks, but there's still no sign yet of this feeding through into more stress on the healthcare system. Could be that transmission of the virus is very low amongst the elderly, that more and better targeted testing is picking up a larger proportion of all cases presently in circulation, or down to a combination of both factors.
  • Options
    @Cyclefree asks in the header about degree exams. Oxford anecdotes I have heard are that at least some finals took place online; some covering only parts of the syllabus, others all of it.
  • Options

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,073

    I'm not following @TSE in on his bet against Gavin Williamson. Look at Hancock and PHE. This qualifications row is perfect cover for Dominic Cummings to smash Ofqual and the Department for Education, taking power to Number 10 and leaving the hapless Williamson as impotent placeman and mouthpiece.

    It was purposely enigmatic to allow me to claim victory in either circumstances.

    But really I think Williamson will go in the next reshuffle, reportedly next month, he's been forced into a level of u-turn that Hancock hasn't had to make.
    So Chris Grayling back in then.
  • Options

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
    How many incompetent decisions have the Tories made in the last two months alone?
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    They won’t unless there is a viable alternative which as yet is not apparent.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I'm not following @TSE in on his bet against Gavin Williamson. Look at Hancock and PHE. This qualifications row is perfect cover for Dominic Cummings to smash Ofqual and the Department for Education, taking power to Number 10 and leaving the hapless Williamson as impotent placeman and mouthpiece.

    "Vicious when he's cornered" "Knows where the bodies are buried" "Got Johnson the leadership" - all things I have read in the last 48 hours. So I agree with you.
  • Options
    DearPBDearPB Posts: 439
    Seems to be something funny happening on the banner....

    Palatial Betting!
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2020

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
    How many incompetent decisions have the Tories made in the last two months alone?
    I don't know. They've muddled their way through the worst pandemic in a century quite well I think and not been too stubborn to change course when mistakes are made.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347

    I'm not completely sure what's going on with this site at the moment, but I'll try this again...

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    nichomar said:


    Just 2 deaths in England hospitals, both over 80.

    Weekend effect, remember
    Due to the very low numbers I doubt there is much weekend effect anymore
    The numbers to track are New infections and hospitalizations, followed bi icu occupancy, deaths are a lagging indicator.
    Those are flat, aren't they?
    The hospital numbers have been trending downwards more-or-less continuously since mid-April. I'm much more interested to see the latest update on these than I am the (very low) death figures.

    Cases identified by positive test have now been creeping steadily upwards for six weeks, but there's still no sign yet of this feeding through into more stress on the healthcare system. Could be that transmission of the virus is very low amongst the elderly, that more and better targeted testing is picking up a larger proportion of all cases presently in circulation, or down to a combination of both factors.
    This is a very intersting video on where we are with the Pandemic

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU3OibcindQ&t=176s
  • Options
    Funny as the impending U-turn is, they are replacing absolute chaos with absolute chaos. Student doesn't get required grades, gets told to do one by their universities. Unless said unis have failed to fill their places then said student still isn't getting in.

    Unless the numbers not coming in from China / deferring a year to sit out the pox are enough to make this work. Which just makes for even more uncertainty. Anyway, we expected nothing less. We know the sacked liar is safe in his job as Frank Spencer impersonator because his boss has been sacked twice for lying which makes his sacked once for lying hardly a sacking offence.

    In a few weeks the schools attempt to send everyone back full time just as the pox resurgence gets into full swing. Happily Mr Spencer will have proven himself in this crisis to be a bastion of calm and a visionary planner so absolutely nothing can go wrong.
  • Options

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
    How many incompetent decisions have the Tories made in the last two months alone?
    I don't know. They've muddled their way through the worst pandemic in a century quite well I think and not been too stubborn to change course when mistakes are made.
    I don't know why I asked you to be honest.
  • Options
    DearPB said:

    Seems to be something funny happening on the banner....

    Palatial Betting!

    @rcs1000 is on the case. Or at least, the case is on @rcs1000's to do list. The banner was altered by a friendly hacker to demonstrate that the site is still vulnerable after being hacked and rebuilt a week or so ago.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Bottlers lol
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,073
    You should probably have to pass an IQ test before you're allowed to run polls on your twitter account. Odds on the poll lasting the day?

    https://twitter.com/themajorityscot/status/1295314872725536769?s=20
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977

    Funny as the impending U-turn is, they are replacing absolute chaos with absolute chaos. Student doesn't get required grades, gets told to do one by their universities. Unless said unis have failed to fill their places then said student still isn't getting in.

    Unless the numbers not coming in from China / deferring a year to sit out the pox are enough to make this work. Which just makes for even more uncertainty. Anyway, we expected nothing less. We know the sacked liar is safe in his job as Frank Spencer impersonator because his boss has been sacked twice for lying which makes his sacked once for lying hardly a sacking offence.

    In a few weeks the schools attempt to send everyone back full time just as the pox resurgence gets into full swing. Happily Mr Spencer will have proven himself in this crisis to be a bastion of calm and a visionary planner so absolutely nothing can go wrong.

    The only upside for Williamson is that Headteachers cannot use the excuse of exam appeals to explain why schools aren't open on September 1st

    I do wonder what plague of frogs will descend next week to make that milestone impossible,
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Can the Gov't legally do this, thought they err... "had" to go with the OFQUAL results - sure I remember reading that somewhere.
  • Options

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
    How many incompetent decisions have the Tories made in the last two months alone?
    I don't know. They've muddled their way through the worst pandemic in a century quite well I think and not been too stubborn to change course when mistakes are made.
    I don't know why I asked you to be honest.
    Me neither. I've been criticising the government on this subject and calling for a u-turn consistently have I not?

    Next thing they should do is lift the cap on domestic students going to the best universities. If that makes shit universities suffer then sucks to be them, free market. They should have been less shit.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,964
    Pulpstar said:

    Can the Gov't legally do this, thought they err... "had" to go with the OFQUAL results - sure I remember reading that somewhere.

    Well they could change the law. Or ask ofqual nicely.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    What's wrong with the concatenate function (I know, it should be an "&" not an "+"):

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1295344389871599616
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    I'm not completely sure what's going on with this site at the moment, but I'll try this again...

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    nichomar said:


    Just 2 deaths in England hospitals, both over 80.

    Weekend effect, remember
    Due to the very low numbers I doubt there is much weekend effect anymore
    The numbers to track are New infections and hospitalizations, followed bi icu occupancy, deaths are a lagging indicator.
    Those are flat, aren't they?
    The hospital numbers have been trending downwards more-or-less continuously since mid-April. I'm much more interested to see the latest update on these than I am the (very low) death figures.

    Cases identified by positive test have now been creeping steadily upwards for six weeks, but there's still no sign yet of this feeding through into more stress on the healthcare system. Could be that transmission of the virus is very low amongst the elderly, that more and better targeted testing is picking up a larger proportion of all cases presently in circulation, or down to a combination of both factors.
    It seems to be a combination of -

    - more testing is finding asymptomatic cases
    - the case incidence is rising, but the demographic infected has changed massively.

    image
  • Options
    https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1295355664659877889

    Can somebody explain why this guy has so many followers. As far as I can see, he just posts info that's already out.
  • Options

    From the last thread, detected cases are rising.

    England cases by specimen date for yesterday -

    image
    image

    Highest cases since early June?
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,417
    IshmaelZ said:

    I'm not following @TSE in on his bet against Gavin Williamson. Look at Hancock and PHE. This qualifications row is perfect cover for Dominic Cummings to smash Ofqual and the Department for Education, taking power to Number 10 and leaving the hapless Williamson as impotent placeman and mouthpiece.

    "Vicious when he's cornered" "Knows where the bodies are buried" "Got Johnson the leadership" - all things I have read in the last 48 hours. So I agree with you.
    Shame he wasn't a bit more vicious when cornered with a suicidal exam policy.
  • Options
    DearPB said:

    Seems to be something funny happening on the banner....

    Palatial Betting!

    Monarchist hacker! My money's on HYUFD :lol:
  • Options
    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,964

    https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1295355664659877889

    Can somebody explain why this guy has so many followers. As far as I can see, he just posts info that's already out.

    Also sounds like bollocks as they don't have competence (no laughing in the back) over grades in Scotland, Wales, NI.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,179

    Funny as the impending U-turn is, they are replacing absolute chaos with absolute chaos. Student doesn't get required grades, gets told to do one by their universities. Unless said unis have failed to fill their places then said student still isn't getting in.

    Unless the numbers not coming in from China / deferring a year to sit out the pox are enough to make this work. Which just makes for even more uncertainty. Anyway, we expected nothing less. We know the sacked liar is safe in his job as Frank Spencer impersonator because his boss has been sacked twice for lying which makes his sacked once for lying hardly a sacking offence.

    In a few weeks the schools attempt to send everyone back full time just as the pox resurgence gets into full swing. Happily Mr Spencer will have proven himself in this crisis to be a bastion of calm and a visionary planner so absolutely nothing can go wrong.

    God knows what our Uni will do if the gov does allow backtrack. We are full, out of clearing and subject to a local cap due to the available housing. Gonna be fun, but as I've said already once today, above my pay grade...
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    From the last thread, detected cases are rising.

    England cases by specimen date for yesterday -

    image
    image

    Highest cases since early June?

    From the last thread, detected cases are rising.

    England cases by specimen date for yesterday -

    image
    image

    Highest cases since early June?
    Yes - though the testing levels are much, much higher.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    tlg86 said:

    What's wrong with the concatenate function (I know, it should be an "&" not an "+"):

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1295344389871599616

    Then = should read == surely.
  • Options
    RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1295355664659877889

    Can somebody explain why this guy has so many followers. As far as I can see, he just posts info that's already out.

    He's popular with the FBPE lot.
  • Options

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
    How many incompetent decisions have the Tories made in the last two months alone?
    I don't know. They've muddled their way through the worst pandemic in a century quite well I think and not been too stubborn to change course when mistakes are made.
    I don't know why I asked you to be honest.
    Me neither. I've been criticising the government on this subject and calling for a u-turn consistently have I not?

    Next thing they should do is lift the cap on domestic students going to the best universities. If that makes shit universities suffer then sucks to be them, free market. They should have been less shit.
    The third tier universities might be very good for all we know. The problem, as per the last thread, is employers discriminating against them. It is not as if the University of Lincoln teaches a different value of pi from Cambridge.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    ..
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
    How many incompetent decisions have the Tories made in the last two months alone?
    I don't know. They've muddled their way through the worst pandemic in a century quite well I think and not been too stubborn to change course when mistakes are made.
    I don't know why I asked you to be honest.
    Me neither. I've been criticising the government on this subject and calling for a u-turn consistently have I not?

    Next thing they should do is lift the cap on domestic students going to the best universities. If that makes shit universities suffer then sucks to be them, free market. They should have been less shit.
    The third tier universities might be very good for all we know. The problem, as per the last thread, is employers discriminating against them. It is not as if the University of Lincoln teaches a different value of pi from Cambridge.
    But it’s a better class of pi
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    What's wrong with the concatenate function (I know, it should be an "&" not an "+"):

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1295344389871599616

    Could be a plus depending on the language
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
    How many incompetent decisions have the Tories made in the last two months alone?
    I don't know. They've muddled their way through the worst pandemic in a century quite well I think and not been too stubborn to change course when mistakes are made.
    I don't know why I asked you to be honest.
    Me neither. I've been criticising the government on this subject and calling for a u-turn consistently have I not?

    Next thing they should do is lift the cap on domestic students going to the best universities. If that makes shit universities suffer then sucks to be them, free market. They should have been less shit.
    The third tier universities might be very good for all we know. The problem, as per the last thread, is employers discriminating against them. It is not as if the University of Lincoln teaches a different value of pi from Cambridge.
    From personal experience of hiring people, the lower tier universities are lower tier for a reason.

    Unless we want to go back to the heady days when people tried to claim that Southbank was equal to Cambridge.....
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited August 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's wrong with the concatenate function (I know, it should be an "&" not an "+"):

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1295344389871599616

    Then = should read == surely.
    Perhaps even ===

    !
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    It ought to be a whole lot worse than that. In my opinion, not only should those who had offers get a place, but those who have done better than they might have expected to do last autumn should have as much right to places at top universities.
  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    DearPB said:

    Seems to be something funny happening on the banner....

    Palatial Betting!

    @rcs1000 is on the case. Or at least, the case is on @rcs1000's to do list. The banner was altered by a friendly hacker to demonstrate that the site is still vulnerable after being hacked and rebuilt a week or so ago.
    PB uses some interesting caching which means that stuff like that can disappear and reappear for a while, even once fixed
  • Options

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
    How many incompetent decisions have the Tories made in the last two months alone?
    I don't know. They've muddled their way through the worst pandemic in a century quite well I think and not been too stubborn to change course when mistakes are made.
    I don't know why I asked you to be honest.
    Me neither. I've been criticising the government on this subject and calling for a u-turn consistently have I not?

    Next thing they should do is lift the cap on domestic students going to the best universities. If that makes shit universities suffer then sucks to be them, free market. They should have been less shit.
    The third tier universities might be very good for all we know. The problem, as per the last thread, is employers discriminating against them. It is not as if the University of Lincoln teaches a different value of pi from Cambridge.
    From personal experience of hiring people, the lower tier universities are lower tier for a reason.

    Unless we want to go back to the heady days when people tried to claim that Southbank was equal to Cambridge.....
    Not in my experience, job dependant though I'm sure
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    @Cyclefree asks in the header about degree exams. Oxford anecdotes I have heard are that at least some finals took place online; some covering only parts of the syllabus, others all of it.

    Imperial mathematics finals took place online.
  • Options
    Having made a total u-turn and indeed capitulation, unleashing a second tidal of wave of shit onto the education system I expect the government to close ranks.

    We did everything we could. We listed. We've made changes. The matter is closed. Move on. And for a few loyal frothers it will work. Suspect an awful lot of Tory parents won't forget this one in a hurry though - and thats before the September chaos of "go back to school or we fine you"
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    It just shows there is no easy option and that teachers have given very inflated expected grades.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    It's almost as though the only solution to this mess is to make the students take some exams...
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,231
    tlg86 said:

    What's wrong with the concatenate function (I know, it should be an "&" not an "+"):

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1295344389871599616

    "+" performs a string concatenation in SQL. If your numbers are stored in the database as a character type (I've seen that done) then this could trip you up.
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    It ought to be a whole lot worse than that. In my opinion, not only should those who had offers get a place, but those who have done better than they might have expected to do last autumn should have as much right to places at top universities.
    It's often said that Uni applications should be altered to be done AFTER results are known - now this year they could have had these results out weeks ago (if going on teachers predictions alone) giving the Unis then a much bigger window to assess applications that way... holding back the A level results to the 'normal' results day was very odd as there was no marking to be done and just reduced the window to sort things out before Uni decisions are needed...
  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    It just shows there is no easy option and that teachers have given very inflated expected grades.
    Absolutely. Its really the teachers fault if you think about it...
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977

    tlg86 said:

    What's wrong with the concatenate function (I know, it should be an "&" not an "+"):

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1295344389871599616

    "+" performs a string concatenation in SQL. If your numbers are stored in the database as a character type (I've seen that done) then this could trip you up.
    Javascript is the same but it's actually worse as you can end up with 4 (number) + 4 (string) = 8 but 4 (string)+ 4 (number) = 44.

    And you never know as it will often seem intermittent.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    It just shows there is no easy option and that teachers have given very inflated expected grades.
    Absolutely. Its really the teachers fault if you think about it...
    I think teachers probably inflate expected grades every year.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    @Philip_Thompson spent all morning saying this isn't a problem - I'm really looking forward to his reply...
  • Options
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    @Philip_Thompson spent all morning saying this isn't a problem - I'm really looking forward to his reply...
    He will just deflect.
  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    It just shows there is no easy option and that teachers have given very inflated expected grades.
    It is more complicated than that, if teachers were predicting students' potential. If no exams are actually taken then normal underperformance by some students for reasons of random bad luck -- hay fever; granny's untimely death; revising the wrong topics -- will not do its normal job of getting the numbers down.

    The monstrous unfairness this year is that the algorithm assigned that random bad luck to many students.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Scott_xP said:
    It's almost as though the journalists, having campaigned for a U-turn, have the next problem lined up!

    :lol:
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    I'm not completely sure what's going on with this site at the moment, but I'll try this again...

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    nichomar said:


    Just 2 deaths in England hospitals, both over 80.

    Weekend effect, remember
    Due to the very low numbers I doubt there is much weekend effect anymore
    The numbers to track are New infections and hospitalizations, followed bi icu occupancy, deaths are a lagging indicator.
    Those are flat, aren't they?
    The hospital numbers have been trending downwards more-or-less continuously since mid-April. I'm much more interested to see the latest update on these than I am the (very low) death figures.

    Cases identified by positive test have now been creeping steadily upwards for six weeks, but there's still no sign yet of this feeding through into more stress on the healthcare system. Could be that transmission of the virus is very low amongst the elderly, that more and better targeted testing is picking up a larger proportion of all cases presently in circulation, or down to a combination of both factors.
    It seems to be a combination of -

    - more testing is finding asymptomatic cases
    - the case incidence is rising, but the demographic infected has changed massively.

    image
    Makes complete sense, as the product of what effectively amounts to a huge reduction in both the mean age and population density of the country. Biosecurity in care homes, voluntary self-isolation by much of the old and medically vulnerable population (and a good number of worried well on top of that,) and a huge and sustained collapse in commuting (reportedly, only 31% of London office workers are back at their desks, whereas in Paris, Madrid and Berlin the figure is 74%, 66% and 76% respectively.)
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977
    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It's almost as though the journalists, having campaigned for a U-turn, have the next problem lined up!

    :lol:
    The next problem was obvious once the first one has left to fester for a week..
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,938
    tlg86 said:

    It's almost as though the journalists, having campaigned for a U-turn, have the next problem lined up!

    :lol:

    Or that the "fix" is nothing of the sort...
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977
    edited August 2020

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    @Philip_Thompson spent all morning saying this isn't a problem - I'm really looking forward to his reply...
    He will just deflect.
    I know but once again it shows his inability to think beyond the immediate stage....

    As with the few remaining Tory supporters on this forum he highlights the biggest issue this Government has - the inability to see beyond the immediately obvious and the immediate issue.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    It'll be interesting seeing the school league tables this year, previous and the next. Wonder which school will have the biggest "hump"....
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    I'm not completely sure what's going on with this site at the moment, but I'll try this again...

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    nichomar said:


    Just 2 deaths in England hospitals, both over 80.

    Weekend effect, remember
    Due to the very low numbers I doubt there is much weekend effect anymore
    The numbers to track are New infections and hospitalizations, followed bi icu occupancy, deaths are a lagging indicator.
    Those are flat, aren't they?
    The hospital numbers have been trending downwards more-or-less continuously since mid-April. I'm much more interested to see the latest update on these than I am the (very low) death figures.

    Cases identified by positive test have now been creeping steadily upwards for six weeks, but there's still no sign yet of this feeding through into more stress on the healthcare system. Could be that transmission of the virus is very low amongst the elderly, that more and better targeted testing is picking up a larger proportion of all cases presently in circulation, or down to a combination of both factors.
    It seems to be a combination of -

    - more testing is finding asymptomatic cases
    - the case incidence is rising, but the demographic infected has changed massively.

    image
    Makes complete sense, as the product of what effectively amounts to a huge reduction in both the mean age and population density of the country. Biosecurity in care homes, voluntary self-isolation by much of the old and medically vulnerable population (and a good number of worried well on top of that,) and a huge and sustained collapse in commuting (reportedly, only 31% of London office workers are back at their desks, whereas in Paris, Madrid and Berlin the figure is 74%, 66% and 76% respectively.)
    I thought they were all on holiday in our little seaside town with double it’s normal population. 😀
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    edited August 2020

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
    How many incompetent decisions have the Tories made in the last two months alone?
    I don't know. They've muddled their way through the worst pandemic in a century quite well I think and not been too stubborn to change course when mistakes are made.
    I don't know why I asked you to be honest.
    Me neither. I've been criticising the government on this subject and calling for a u-turn consistently have I not?

    Next thing they should do is lift the cap on domestic students going to the best universities. If that makes shit universities suffer then sucks to be them, free market. They should have been less shit.
    The third tier universities might be very good for all we know. The problem, as per the last thread, is employers discriminating against them. It is not as if the University of Lincoln teaches a different value of pi from Cambridge.
    From personal experience of hiring people, the lower tier universities are lower tier for a reason.

    Unless we want to go back to the heady days when people tried to claim that Southbank was equal to Cambridge.....
    Not in my experience, job dependant though I'm sure
    So you are saying that Fenland Poly *is* equal to Southbank?

    Hmmmm.... No - Fenland Poly is a frightful dump.

    Seriously. There is little doubt that the lower end Unis (in general) take students with lower marks, and teach them an easier syllabus.

    What is unfair, is that membership of the Russell Group is the cutoff. Rather than some kind of objective assessment of quality.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,964
    Scott_xP said:

    tlg86 said:

    It's almost as though the journalists, having campaigned for a U-turn, have the next problem lined up!

    :lol:

    Or that the "fix" is nothing of the sort...
    How would you fix it without increasing the number of admissions?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    nichomar said:

    I'm not completely sure what's going on with this site at the moment, but I'll try this again...

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    nichomar said:


    Just 2 deaths in England hospitals, both over 80.

    Weekend effect, remember
    Due to the very low numbers I doubt there is much weekend effect anymore
    The numbers to track are New infections and hospitalizations, followed bi icu occupancy, deaths are a lagging indicator.
    Those are flat, aren't they?
    The hospital numbers have been trending downwards more-or-less continuously since mid-April. I'm much more interested to see the latest update on these than I am the (very low) death figures.

    Cases identified by positive test have now been creeping steadily upwards for six weeks, but there's still no sign yet of this feeding through into more stress on the healthcare system. Could be that transmission of the virus is very low amongst the elderly, that more and better targeted testing is picking up a larger proportion of all cases presently in circulation, or down to a combination of both factors.
    It seems to be a combination of -

    - more testing is finding asymptomatic cases
    - the case incidence is rising, but the demographic infected has changed massively.

    image
    Makes complete sense, as the product of what effectively amounts to a huge reduction in both the mean age and population density of the country. Biosecurity in care homes, voluntary self-isolation by much of the old and medically vulnerable population (and a good number of worried well on top of that,) and a huge and sustained collapse in commuting (reportedly, only 31% of London office workers are back at their desks, whereas in Paris, Madrid and Berlin the figure is 74%, 66% and 76% respectively.)
    I thought they were all on holiday in our little seaside town with double it’s normal population. 😀
    Plus many old people are treating anyone young as a plague carrier.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It's almost as though the journalists, having campaigned for a U-turn, have the next problem lined up!

    :lol:
    The next problem was obvious once the first one has left to fester for a week..
    Is this a time thing? The posts from @Scrapheap_as_was show that this would have been the case if the decision was taken last week. Incidentally, Scotland gaming the system on its own doesn't cause a trouble. But once the English start doing the same, UK universities have something of a problem.
  • Options
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    @Philip_Thompson spent all morning saying this isn't a problem - I'm really looking forward to his reply...
    If they have more domestic students than they expected they can offer fewer places to overseas students.

    If they can't do make it work then they should lose access to all government grant and other funding they are able to get as they should not be prioritising overseas money making over domestic students during a pandemic.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    edited August 2020
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    tlg86 said:

    It's almost as though the journalists, having campaigned for a U-turn, have the next problem lined up!

    :lol:

    Or that the "fix" is nothing of the sort...
    How would you fix it without increasing the number of admissions?
    That bit was previously fixed with the post-algorithm grades.

    There's bound to be a class somewhere where the algorithm generated better results than expected for the students, and a teacher who will say something along the lines of "I always look at my predictions as a minimum, and expect my students to try and better them"...
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    It just shows there is no easy option and that teachers have given very inflated expected grades.
    Absolutely. Its really the teachers fault if you think about it...
    I think teachers probably inflate expected grades every year.
    I think you may be mixing up the Centre Assessed Grades with the A level predicted grades. It is the former that is at issue; the latter is irrelevant to the grade. The CAG can`t be inflated every year as this is the only year this has ever been done.

    This is in no way the teachers` fault. Ofqual were naive to think that, under pressure re school league tables and from parents, that teachers wouldn`t come up with very optimistic grades. If they didn`t, then their pupils would have been disadvantaged against other schools` pupils whose teachers did.
  • Options
    Had my initial consultation meeting with HR about my role being made redundant. With an alternative gig agreed subject to contract I'm not stressed, but seriously bemused by the process being undertaken. As an employee of less than 2 years they don't technically need to follow a process. To choose to do so with Williamson-esque levels of incomprehension and incompetence would be truly funny if I had a few more months on the clock and could laugh about it all the way to the tribunal
  • Options

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    @Philip_Thompson spent all morning saying this isn't a problem - I'm really looking forward to his reply...
    If they have more domestic students than they expected they can offer fewer places to overseas students.

    If they can't do make it work then they should lose access to all government grant and other funding they are able to get as they should not be prioritising overseas money making over domestic students during a pandemic.
    I believe Oxford take over 6,000 undergraduates per annum. If they can't make room for 3,900 students within that 6,000 then they have a major problem.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977
    edited August 2020

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    @Philip_Thompson spent all morning saying this isn't a problem - I'm really looking forward to his reply...
    If they have more domestic students than they expected they can offer fewer places to overseas students.

    If they can't do make it work then they should lose access to all government grant and other funding they are able to get as they should not be prioritising overseas money making over domestic students during a pandemic.
    I believe Oxford take over 6,000 undergraduates per annum. If they can't make room for 3,900 students within that 6,000 then they have a major problem.
    Your Comprehension skills may need improvement - from within the blockquotes above Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places...

    And it's currently still the case that Oxford University cannot take more UK students than they had last year...
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It's almost as though the journalists, having campaigned for a U-turn, have the next problem lined up!

    :lol:
    The next problem was obvious once the first one has left to fester for a week..
    Is this a time thing? The posts from @Scrapheap_as_was show that this would have been the case if the decision was taken last week. Incidentally, Scotland gaming the system on its own doesn't cause a trouble. But once the English start doing the same, UK universities have something of a problem.
    How to fix?

    Well, according to many people of progressive intent, the housing crisis is down to rich, evil furriners* buying all the properties.

    So, applying this idea, we through all the rich evil furriners out of the universities.

    Job jobbed. Apart from the funding to pay for it.

    On the upside - this year we might have as many people entering medicine as the NHS actually requires....

    *Apparently being rich kind of neutralises the racism thing.
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    I'm not completely sure what's going on with this site at the moment, but I'll try this again...

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    nichomar said:


    Just 2 deaths in England hospitals, both over 80.

    Weekend effect, remember
    Due to the very low numbers I doubt there is much weekend effect anymore
    The numbers to track are New infections and hospitalizations, followed bi icu occupancy, deaths are a lagging indicator.
    Those are flat, aren't they?
    The hospital numbers have been trending downwards more-or-less continuously since mid-April. I'm much more interested to see the latest update on these than I am the (very low) death figures.

    Cases identified by positive test have now been creeping steadily upwards for six weeks, but there's still no sign yet of this feeding through into more stress on the healthcare system. Could be that transmission of the virus is very low amongst the elderly, that more and better targeted testing is picking up a larger proportion of all cases presently in circulation, or down to a combination of both factors.
    It seems to be a combination of -

    - more testing is finding asymptomatic cases
    - the case incidence is rising, but the demographic infected has changed massively.

    image
    Makes complete sense, as the product of what effectively amounts to a huge reduction in both the mean age and population density of the country. Biosecurity in care homes, voluntary self-isolation by much of the old and medically vulnerable population (and a good number of worried well on top of that,) and a huge and sustained collapse in commuting (reportedly, only 31% of London office workers are back at their desks, whereas in Paris, Madrid and Berlin the figure is 74%, 66% and 76% respectively.)
    I thought they were all on holiday in our little seaside town with double it’s normal population. 😀
    Plus many old people are treating anyone young as a plague carrier.
    There is not much integration between immigrant Brits and younger Spanish people, unfortunately they are still hugging grandma in some cases.
  • Options
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    @Philip_Thompson spent all morning saying this isn't a problem - I'm really looking forward to his reply...
    If they have more domestic students than they expected they can offer fewer places to overseas students.

    If they can't do make it work then they should lose access to all government grant and other funding they are able to get as they should not be prioritising overseas money making over domestic students during a pandemic.
    I believe Oxford take over 6,000 undergraduates per annum. If they can't make room for 3,900 students within that 6,000 then they have a major problem.
    Your Comprehension skills may need improvement - Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places...
    Oxford don't have just 3,200 places.
  • Options

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    @Philip_Thompson spent all morning saying this isn't a problem - I'm really looking forward to his reply...
    If they have more domestic students than they expected they can offer fewer places to overseas students.

    If they can't do make it work then they should lose access to all government grant and other funding they are able to get as they should not be prioritising overseas money making over domestic students during a pandemic.
    I believe Oxford take over 6,000 undergraduates per annum. If they can't make room for 3,900 students within that 6,000 then they have a major problem.
    Nope. You are incorrect.

    https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-08-15-university-statement-2020-admissions#:~:text=Against this background, the University,offers have now been admitted.

    Or their historic stats.

    https://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/Annual Admissions Statistical Report 2020.pdf
  • Options

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
    How many incompetent decisions have the Tories made in the last two months alone?
    I don't know. They've muddled their way through the worst pandemic in a century quite well I think and not been too stubborn to change course when mistakes are made.
    I don't know why I asked you to be honest.
    Me neither. I've been criticising the government on this subject and calling for a u-turn consistently have I not?

    Next thing they should do is lift the cap on domestic students going to the best universities. If that makes shit universities suffer then sucks to be them, free market. They should have been less shit.
    The third tier universities might be very good for all we know. The problem, as per the last thread, is employers discriminating against them. It is not as if the University of Lincoln teaches a different value of pi from Cambridge.
    From personal experience of hiring people, the lower tier universities are lower tier for a reason.

    Unless we want to go back to the heady days when people tried to claim that Southbank was equal to Cambridge.....
    Not in my experience, job dependant though I'm sure
    So you are saying that Fenland Poly *is* equal to Southbank?

    Hmmmm.... No - Fenland Poly is a frightful dump.

    Seriously. There is little doubt that the lower end Unis (in general) take students with lower marks, and teach them an easier syllabus.

    What is unfair, is that membership of the Russell Group is the cutoff. Rather than some kind of objective assessment of quality.
    As you say, the question of some places having more rigorous entry requirements can confuse matters but that is a difference in input, not output. The external examiner system was designed to ensure a First in French from one institution was the same as another.
  • Options
    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    It just shows there is no easy option and that teachers have given very inflated expected grades.
    Absolutely. Its really the teachers fault if you think about it...
    I think teachers probably inflate expected grades every year.
    I think you may be mixing up the Centre Assessed Grades with the A level predicted grades. It is the former that is at issue; the latter is irrelevant to the grade. The CAG can`t be inflated every year as this is the only year this has ever been done.

    This is in no way the teachers` fault. Ofqual were naive to think that, under pressure re school league tables and from parents, that teachers wouldn`t come up with very optimistic grades. If they didn`t, then their pupils would have been disadvantaged against other schools` pupils whose teachers did.
    It's (mostly) not even that. Remember that a majority of the time, the CAGs and the Ofqual model agreed.
    A large part of the overprediction was because it's impossible to predict who will fall short on the day, even if you know that some will. Teachers can predict the most likely grade for each student and still overpredict on average.
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    There is a simple solution. Withdraw all of the grades incorrectly issued last week by a deficient Ofqual. All university place offers null and void. Reissue corrected grades. Tell everyone that its all Nicola Sturgeon's fault.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
    How many incompetent decisions have the Tories made in the last two months alone?
    I don't know. They've muddled their way through the worst pandemic in a century quite well I think and not been too stubborn to change course when mistakes are made.
    I don't know why I asked you to be honest.
    Me neither. I've been criticising the government on this subject and calling for a u-turn consistently have I not?

    Next thing they should do is lift the cap on domestic students going to the best universities. If that makes shit universities suffer then sucks to be them, free market. They should have been less shit.
    The third tier universities might be very good for all we know. The problem, as per the last thread, is employers discriminating against them. It is not as if the University of Lincoln teaches a different value of pi from Cambridge.
    From personal experience of hiring people, the lower tier universities are lower tier for a reason.

    Unless we want to go back to the heady days when people tried to claim that Southbank was equal to Cambridge.....
    Not in my experience, job dependant though I'm sure
    So you are saying that Fenland Poly *is* equal to Southbank?

    Hmmmm.... No - Fenland Poly is a frightful dump.

    Seriously. There is little doubt that the lower end Unis (in general) take students with lower marks, and teach them an easier syllabus.

    What is unfair, is that membership of the Russell Group is the cutoff. Rather than some kind of objective assessment of quality.
    As you say, the question of some places having more rigorous entry requirements can confuse matters but that is a difference in input, not output. The external examiner system was designed to ensure a First in French from one institution was the same as another.
    I laughed so hard I damn near died. Sorry.

    The external examiner system is supposed to help standards. It does not mean that all universities are equal in output.
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    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    @Philip_Thompson spent all morning saying this isn't a problem - I'm really looking forward to his reply...
    If they have more domestic students than they expected they can offer fewer places to overseas students.

    If they can't do make it work then they should lose access to all government grant and other funding they are able to get as they should not be prioritising overseas money making over domestic students during a pandemic.
    I believe Oxford take over 6,000 undergraduates per annum. If they can't make room for 3,900 students within that 6,000 then they have a major problem.
    Nope. You are incorrect.

    https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-08-15-university-statement-2020-admissions#:~:text=Against this background, the University,offers have now been admitted.

    Or their historic stats.

    https://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/Annual Admissions Statistical Report 2020.pdf
    That link confirms what I said. They're able to accept more than 3200. In fact they've already sent offers to 3440 so far.

    They don't offer 100% of their places to UK students. There is slack within the system to accept more.
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    CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited August 2020

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
    How many incompetent decisions have the Tories made in the last two months alone?
    I don't know. They've muddled their way through the worst pandemic in a century quite well I think and not been too stubborn to change course when mistakes are made.
    I don't know why I asked you to be honest.
    Me neither. I've been criticising the government on this subject and calling for a u-turn consistently have I not?

    Next thing they should do is lift the cap on domestic students going to the best universities. If that makes shit universities suffer then sucks to be them, free market. They should have been less shit.
    The third tier universities might be very good for all we know. The problem, as per the last thread, is employers discriminating against them. It is not as if the University of Lincoln teaches a different value of pi from Cambridge.
    From personal experience of hiring people, the lower tier universities are lower tier for a reason.

    Unless we want to go back to the heady days when people tried to claim that Southbank was equal to Cambridge.....
    Not in my experience, job dependant though I'm sure
    So you are saying that Fenland Poly *is* equal to Southbank?

    Hmmmm.... No - Fenland Poly is a frightful dump.

    Seriously. There is little doubt that the lower end Unis (in general) take students with lower marks, and teach them an easier syllabus.

    What is unfair, is that membership of the Russell Group is the cutoff. Rather than some kind of objective assessment of quality.
    No I am not saying they're equal, I am saying in my experience the people from Russell Groups don't end up being any better than at my job than those who didn't go to them.
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    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    It really is amazing to see so many people who advocated the long term shut down of schools now wailing about children's futures being stolen.

    Incredible really.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,977

    This Government is so utterly incompetent.

    In five years they deserve to lose if this carries on.

    You talking about the Welsh, Scottish, NI or UK government? All have followed the same path.
    How many incompetent decisions have the Tories made in the last two months alone?
    I don't know. They've muddled their way through the worst pandemic in a century quite well I think and not been too stubborn to change course when mistakes are made.
    I don't know why I asked you to be honest.
    Me neither. I've been criticising the government on this subject and calling for a u-turn consistently have I not?

    Next thing they should do is lift the cap on domestic students going to the best universities. If that makes shit universities suffer then sucks to be them, free market. They should have been less shit.
    The third tier universities might be very good for all we know. The problem, as per the last thread, is employers discriminating against them. It is not as if the University of Lincoln teaches a different value of pi from Cambridge.
    From personal experience of hiring people, the lower tier universities are lower tier for a reason.

    Unless we want to go back to the heady days when people tried to claim that Southbank was equal to Cambridge.....
    Not in my experience, job dependant though I'm sure
    So you are saying that Fenland Poly *is* equal to Southbank?

    Hmmmm.... No - Fenland Poly is a frightful dump.

    Seriously. There is little doubt that the lower end Unis (in general) take students with lower marks, and teach them an easier syllabus.

    What is unfair, is that membership of the Russell Group is the cutoff. Rather than some kind of objective assessment of quality.
    Russell Group is a cutoff because they are research based universities rather than teaching based ones...

    And use the Russell Group is an invitation only group but that is because it's entire point was to act as a campaign group for research led unis.
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    Russell Groups take people with higher marks, true. But marks aren't everything, some people (like me) just suck at exams, I'm not trying to make excuses but I know for a fact that exams don't represent my ability.
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited August 2020

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Good luck to the Uni Admissions Officers with this unfolding cluster...

    A whole swathe of students might be back knocking on their doors saying they've now met their offer grades.... UCAS might need to be 'turned off and on again' and restarted??

    That will see losers too if that happens....

    I expect all the better courses are full
    Oxford offered circa 3,900 for circa 3,200 places, Cambridge over-offer as they expect more to miss their grades and I make it they offered 4,701 for 2020 yet their places are less than Oxford (I think - haven't check their stats calculator for that).

    Oxford are taking a record cohort of over 3,400 at last count pre this U turn.... Cambridge could be in a right pickle... Queens for example have already said they are taking 20% more than planned... forced deferrals to 2021 seems the only option i'd imagine. Screwing up next year's cohort too.
    @Philip_Thompson spent all morning saying this isn't a problem - I'm really looking forward to his reply...
    If they have more domestic students than they expected they can offer fewer places to overseas students.

    If they can't do make it work then they should lose access to all government grant and other funding they are able to get as they should not be prioritising overseas money making over domestic students during a pandemic.
    I believe Oxford take over 6,000 undergraduates per annum. If they can't make room for 3,900 students within that 6,000 then they have a major problem.
    Nope. You are incorrect.

    https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-08-15-university-statement-2020-admissions#:~:text=Against this background, the University,offers have now been admitted.

    Or their historic stats.

    https://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/Annual Admissions Statistical Report 2020.pdf
    That link confirms what I said. They're able to accept more than 3200. In fact they've already sent offers to 3440 so far.

    They don't offer 100% of their places to UK students. There is slack within the system to accept more.
    you said over 6,000... . and my post actually said they'd already expanded to over 3,400.
This discussion has been closed.